Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: CGoodson on September 28, 2010, 09:58:44 PM
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I know all about the different kinds of head and next restaints. Does anybody know if the Hutchins Device is SFI rated and can it be used in land speed racing. :cheers:
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You're best bet Corey would be to contact the manufacturer. I believe it is.
Pete
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Thanks Pete that was my next plan just seeing if anyone knew off the top of there head. :cheers:
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You might think about this.
Try the SFI website!
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If you are talking about the one that was only straps and does not have some type of fiber back part; it is available at Summit Racing and says it is NOT SFI approved..................Good Luck
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beginning Jan 2011 all cars and motorcycle streamliners shall have an engineered and tested sfi spec38.1 (type)head and neck restraint system. i think the word is type.
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Anyone hear how the DJ device testing is going? We tried one of the small hard devices in the Bockscar at speedweek, in our laydown position it provided a lump that held your neck and back at a position that would ensure immediate spinal separation... :x
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Anyone hear how the DJ device testing is going? We tried one of the small hard devices in the Bockscar at speedweek, in our laydown position it provided a lump that held your neck and back at a position that would ensure immediate spinal separation... :x
Death TRAPS.
JL222
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Anyone hear how the DJ device testing is going? We tried one of the small hard devices in the Bockscar at speedweek, in our laydown position it provided a lump that held your neck and back at a position that would ensure immediate spinal separation... :x
Checking through various types and usually somewhere in the literature is the preferred and limit seating angles. I'm also interested in a good solution in a laydown position, most unfortunately do not.
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Talking about safety solutions hutchinson device :cheers:
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Corey;
The Safety Solutions device is called the Hybryd, you mentioned it on a past post. It is SFI approved, and appears to be smallest form for the devices. When teching at Speed Week it seemed to be the only one that didn't hang up on the way out of any type of vehicle during bail outs, ( I think that is the right way to spell it, or is it bale out, your behind bars, and your getting out as fast as you can, yes it must be bail out.) The lumpy back brace looks as though it would be painfull in laying position. I have the device DJ is trying to certify, and hope Joe gets it done, it is comfortable, does'nt hang up, and keeps my head pretty stationary once I am belted in.
(http://)
Steve
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beginning Jan 2011 all cars and motorcycle streamliners shall have an engineered and tested sfi spec38.1 (type)head and neck restraint system. i think the word is type.
It's not in 2011 rule book yet and hopefully SCTA will change the wording to [ Upon further review, we strongly recommend a SFI spec 38.1 (type) head and neck restraint system.
Especially after observing hang-ups at 2010 speedweek inspection.
JL222
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wore a Hans device this year at Speedweek. never had an issue with it hanging up on any part of the car or roll cage. course it is never a case of one size fits all. All i know it that the application used for the Fairlane it is a system that worked for me...I have a 30 degree Hans with a fairly upright seat position in the car...was worried about the whole head restraint but at least for me it was not terribly uncomfortable nor did i feel restricted at all..Just my 2 cents worth.
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CR, we tried the SS Hybrid, it and all hard piece devices will not work in a lay down... I'm sure they are fine in the upright position
If you are coming to Denver anytime in the next several months bring your device and we will let you test fit it in the Bockscar...
The SS guy suggested we could reform the seat with a big dimple that the device could sit in. :x that way it might not cause an injury.
Still hoping for a Hutchins, D-Cel or DJ device SFI cert.
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Stainless, check with SCTA (Lee Kenedy perhaps).The way I read that rule, actual SFI certification isn't requied, just that it be of that "Type".I could certainly be wrong though, so check it out first; before you buy. :)
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January 1, 2011 all cars and motorcycles streamliners shall have an engineered and tested SFI spec 38.1 type head and neck restraint system. I read it as you have to have a SFI head and neck restraint by next year. I have been in contact with DJ Safety and Safety Solutions and we are working on a solution. I am all about safety but, we need a device that works and is safe with our application. The Bockscar is a lay down drivers compartment. I have tried a Hybrid in the car and it didn't work for us. So if anybody else has any good ideas or knows of other H&N restraint let me know. :cheers:
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My two cents worth:-
If you have a car with a big ol 'jungle jim' type cage & you could flop around like a c--k in a sock if it fell over, I can totally see the merit in this technology.
I am building a liner with a lay down position, like so many others have, where there is less than 2" between the padding & helmet in all directions & my chin is in my chest. I literally wear my race car!
So where is this "device" supposed to be stopping my head from going??
My abundance of logic & shortage of cash flow, tells me this "accross the board ruling" might not have been the right one.
I drove a lakester this year, semi-reclined with the Def-N-Der, it worked great in that application. It won't work in a lay down, you can't get your head far enough forward to see.
I would be much happier with a collar to protect from crushing my spine & the close cage to stop my head falling off.
That's my two cents, but what ever the rule, You know the story!
Sid.
FYI:- I believe at one time there was a law passed in Pensilvania that motorcycles be equiped with seat belts, DON'T tell SCTA.
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as many of you know Danny Thompson was in a blow over at the world finals this past week in his race car, without his head and neck restraint on he would have broke his neck. after seeing the in car video his head and neck were in line with each other. without it we could have lost Danny. Some folks bitch about them how they cant get out of there cars, there a fire trap, so if you have to redo part of your cage in your cars to make every thing out together so be it tubing is cheaper than years of pain and the cost of a wheel chair. :|
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as many of you know Danny Thompson was in a blow over at the world finals this past week in his race car, without his head and neck restraint on he would have broke his neck. after seeing the in car video his head and neck were in line with each other. without it we could have lost Danny. Some folks bitch about them how they cant get out of there cars, there a fire trap, so if you have to redo part of your cage in your cars to make every thing out together so be it tubing is cheaper than years of pain and the cost of a wheel chair. :|
Problem solved, I can take the x brace out of the door opening [ like Cheeto Racer] and take out the funny car cage and just go to the minimum required roll cage and get right out.
Foto of car reply #12 [no X brace} no problem
JL222
P.S. And all I need is a hacksaw no tubing expense
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then why can a funnycar drivers get out ok? they all were one
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then why can a funnycar drivers get out ok? they all were one
YEA I could cut the X brace in the top remove all top roll bars on sides and above window put a funny car escape
hatch on roof and jump right out after running into dike and coming to instant halt. :-)
And from what I understand there has been hangups in funny cars especially with the high neck designs.
JL222
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"they all were one"
They all were one what?
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Now guys let's all take a deep breath and relax. Safety is the key concern here.
The HNR rule is there to protect us. With several manufacturers making good HNR's and several designs to choose from, I am sure we can all find something that meets the rules and will work in our cars. (hopefully with little or no modifications to current cage or bars etc)
I know some of us may have been using nothing at all or only the old Horse Collar and anything else seems cumbersome and restrictive.... trust me I understand...
More cage, door nets, 5, 6 or 7 point seat belts, containment seats, lateral head supports and now HNR's are all there to "help" give us the best chance of walking away should the dreaded roll over, flip or tumble occur.
I am no expert (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express) but what I did was try on several HNR's and chose the one that fit the best and that allowed me to exit the car with the least difficulty. No one ever said exiting a race car fully suited up was going to be easy, but once you have all your gear selected, make sure you practice your bail out drill several times until you have a repeatable sequence down. Then hope you never have to put it to use.
If you really have a "specialty" set up, I am sure making a call to any of the HNR manufacturers can help, maybe they can assist... I know Safety Solutions was very helpful with my belts and HNR (a guy my size can not buy off the shelf anything, so my belts and HNR had to be custom sized... my seat too,,, Thanks ISP and Safety Solutions.)
Charles
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"they all were one"
They all were one what?
Stan, I see you are still up to your old self !! LOL
I think they all wear one ... as in HNR
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Maybe someone could post the in car video of the mustang.
John, don't take this the wrong way, but, have you played with any yet to see if anything would work?
P.S. Are you picking on my car? :cry:
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The guys at Safety Solutions are great to to work with. I needed to have my HNR adjusted after I had owned it for over a year. They did it at no charge. Great People.
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Maybe someone could post the in car video of the mustang.
John, don't take this the wrong way, but, have you played with any yet to see if anything would work?
P.S. Are you picking on my car? :cry:
Yep :-D No I'm just pointing out that it's a lot easier to get out of your car or any car that that has no X brace.
I haven't tried any, I'm hoping they just highly recommend the things.
Just watched the Ack Attack video did anyone see a hans device?
JL222 :cheers:
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i had a de fen der and traded it in on a safety solutions system. i feel so much better. less restrictive. and more protection.
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I had the opportunity to chat with Danny Thompson at Bakersfield yesterday. He is convinced that the restraint system saved him from very serious injury or possible death. Those who decry the rule should talk with Danny or Keith Copeland as to their thoughts.
While talking with Danny someone in the group mentioned that he was lucky. We both agreed that luck played a part, it was preparation that counted most.
DW
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Does any one know how far Danny rolled after flying? I heard the car flew a long ways then rolled several times.
JL222
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I heard it was 1100 feet in the air and rolled 4 times landing on the wheels
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I heard it was 1100 feet in the air and rolled 4 times landing on the wheels
1100 feet! Holly S*#! :-o :-o :-o :-o Tony
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I heard it was 1100 feet in the air and rolled 4 times landing on the wheels
Glen...were you there when KC rolled the blown fuel roadster at El Mirage? I have a video buried someplace, he was hauling azz and looking at video after spinning a zillion times a second I was thinking why doesn't he shut off
but it was just the sound taking time to get to camera.
JL222
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JL,Yes I was there and the 1st one to him. He spun forever for sure. BTW the Kirk & Stringfellow car did the same thing as Thompson a long flite and a few rolls, Had a neck restraint as well. I think larger spill plates may have spoiled the air when they got side ways and kept them from lifting. both had the same type of spoiler,like a pro stock.
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I just spoke to Safety Solutions and told them the details of the seating in my lakester and my new liner build and there product called a Hybrid Pro Rage is very small and they claim will not interfer with getting in and out of my cars. You can see them on their web sight and they are priced at $595 which is a good reduction over the original Hans. He made a point about seat belt mounting of the upper belts. About 2 1/2 in below the shoulders and about 2 1/2 to 3 in apart. Helps the belts clear the devise and limits belt stretch. Very helpful company. Also sell belts and sheets of the required padding.
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Racergeo,
I know the guys at Safety Solutions and they are great to deal with. I too use the Hybrid Pro HNR.. The upper harness/seat belt mounting is crucial to be 2 to 4 inches below the top of the shoulders when wearing the device.
Charles
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I just received an email/product release item from Joe Hansen -- DJ Safety CEO. First of all I'll paste the text of the email -- and then explain. . .
"Attached is the new DJ Safety Head and Neck Restraint.
Still waiting to do the final SFI 38-1 testing.
Check Out www.djsafety.com
Thanks
Joe Hansen
CEO, US Navy Retired
DJ Safety Inc
2623 N. San Fernando Rd.
Los Angeles, CA 90065
PH 323-221-0000 Fax 323-221-0001
"
And the "news release" itself is a 2.4 Mb Word document that isn't going to be easy to post, so I won't try, but will offer to send it out to any that ask for it. I'll make it a bulk mailing, so if you want to keep your interest or your email addy or whatever a secret -- don't ask for the thing. Since it's so big I don't want to send it over and over and use up my monthly allocation of bandwidth -- which I reserve for listening to streaming Minnesota Public Radio as well as landracing.com. So -- if you'd like a copy of the release, please send an email to me with "DJ Safety" in the subject line.
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Jon, is it more detailed than this page?
http://www.djsafety.com/sfi_381.html
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Yes, and much different. What I found at the link you offered is like the front page of a catalog. What Joe sent is a four-page document listing testing G-forces and various standards and loads and such. It IS a sales document - but seems (on a quick read to a novice about HNR) to have quite a bit of information, including (I think I saw it) price. I'll email it to you, Tman, and let you then help others here decide if they want it -- okay?
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Damm, it's hard to read all those capital letters. No pictures. And then there's a helmet restraint for $52? What's going on here?
Stan
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Thanks Jon, you have a PM with my correct addy
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In another post on another thread, I mentioned a device made by ISAAC.... it is NOT SFI approved but it outperforms a HANS device according to their windburn.... the real reason it does not meet SFI specs is that it fastens to the shoulder belts and requires pins to be pulled in order to exit the vehicle. It seems to NOT be seat angle specific..... I posed some questions to Kiwi Steve and Lee Kennedy as to the legality of running it.... no answer yet but check it out on their website...the link is pasted in below..... they have a video of a crash test side by side of a HANS device.... what surprised me is that the shoulder belts slipped off of the HANS device in the test. So, is that a problem that nobody is talking about in regards to the HANS device?
http://www.isaacdirect.com/
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Thanks Jon! DJ has me sold. I had thoughts in my head of something similar. Good price and well described.
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Jon, thanks again. I sent the PDF out to a couple of the folks in the chat last night. :cheers:
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Rick Vesco showed up with a defender yesterday.... it wouldn't work in my liner.... I didn't have a problem with getting in and out but the rigid formed bracing pushed my helmet up half way off of my head around my ears and obstructed my view...It wouldn't let my helmet come down into a safe driving position.... I'm gonna try the hans which has a lower profile formed design without that bar thingy, but a strap system if approved would probably be the best for me... i think the key here guys is study the designs available and try them, get an agreement with your supplier if it doesn't fit that you can send it back and try something else.... don't give up and bitch till you tried them all.... find one that works for ya.... I don't want to be the one who drag your lifeless body out of your wadded up POS when you crash.....
love Kent
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Take a look at the Safety Solutions Hybrid Pro. I'm dealing with Harold Nicks at Parker Pumper in Mira Loma. Went there yesterday and the one he ordered for me didn't fit (with a -20 suit on). He'll have another one next week. Didn't cost me shipping, or deposit, or anything. He's sold 100's of them to off-roaders and stock car drivers. He says the "Pro Rage" is the best for me. And it's the cheapest.
I decided to buy direct from someone who would fit me and let me try it out, rather than mail order it. The product itself is on www.SafetySolutionsRacing.com. And Harold is at racingplus.com or 951-360-0436.
Stan
(We may need a snorkle attachment for El Mirage.)
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I am sure that there are several units in trials with SFI, but, the Defender unit is not SFI certified.
I found this out about 2 years ago while checking safety gear.
Best look is at the SFI site and the listings of approved units.
John
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Take a look at the Safety Solutions Hybrid Pro. I'm dealing with Harold Nicks at Parker Pumper in Mira Loma. Went there yesterday and the one he ordered for me didn't fit (with a -20 suit on). He'll have another one next week. Didn't cost me shipping, or deposit, or anything. He's sold 100's of them to off-roaders and stock car drivers. He says the "Pro Rage" is the best for me. And it's the cheapest.
I decided to buy direct from someone who would fit me and let me try it out, rather than mail order it. The product itself is on www.SafetySolutionsRacing.com. And Harold is at racingplus.com or 951-360-0436.
Stan
(We may need a snorkle attachment for El Mirage.)
Stan. great choice...I have a Hybrid Pro, I drove to there factory,,less than an hour from me and had one custome fit...
Charles
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I am sure that there are several units in trials with SFI, but, the Defender unit is not SFI certified.
I found this out about 2 years ago while checking safety gear.
Best look is at the SFI site and the listings of approved units.
John
The link to the Defender I posted shows it IS SFI certified. The PDF Jon has shows an entirely new system from DJ
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In another post on another thread, I mentioned a device made by ISAAC.... it is NOT SFI approved but it outperforms a HANS device according to their windburn.... the real reason it does not meet SFI specs is that it fastens to the shoulder belts and requires pins to be pulled in order to exit the vehicle. It seems to NOT be seat angle specific..... I posed some questions to Kiwi Steve and Lee Kennedy as to the legality of running it.... no answer yet but check it out on their website...the link is pasted in below..... they have a video of a crash test side by side of a HANS device.... what surprised me is that the shoulder belts slipped off of the HANS device in the test. So, is that a problem that nobody is talking about in regards to the HANS device?
http://www.isaacdirect.com/
Have you heard back from Steve or Lee about this?
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In another post on another thread, I mentioned a device made by ISAAC.... it is NOT SFI approved but it outperforms a HANS device according to their windburn.... the real reason it does not meet SFI specs is that it fastens to the shoulder belts and requires pins to be pulled in order to exit the vehicle. It seems to NOT be seat angle specific..... I posed some questions to Kiwi Steve and Lee Kennedy as to the legality of running it.... no answer yet but check it out on their website...the link is pasted in below..... they have a video of a crash test side by side of a HANS device.... what surprised me is that the shoulder belts slipped off of the HANS device in the test. So, is that a problem that nobody is talking about in regards to the HANS device?
http://www.isaacdirect.com/
Have you heard back from Steve or Lee about this?
I have not heard back anything about this device.... I have been sent the windburn on DJ Safety's newly SFI certified device and the other members of our group seem to think DJs system may be the way to go.... DJs system is good for 20 to 40 degrees of seat angle which means that, for us, we can cover all three cars in our group with one system.
I really was hoping to get some info back from Lee on the ISAAC device though. Why don't you hit him up as well?
Lee Kennedy's email address is: Lee.Kennedy@AVMetrics.net
And Steve Davies' Email address is: flyingkiwi97@aol.com