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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Reverend Hedgash on December 11, 2005, 07:07:17 PM



Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on December 11, 2005, 07:07:17 PM
Our tank is from a 1953 Canberra Bomber, apparently sent over Russia to photograph Kasputin Yar by Winston Churchill at the request of the Americans. (Pre U2 days)

Chased out by Mig17's, old WH700 saw the end of its life doing Blue Jay Missile trials in Woomera Australia.

It will soon return to near this base, in March 2006 in battle again, this time racing against the clock.

Dr Goggles and myself have spent 2 years designing, building, redesigning this project. It has started to become a complete obsession.

Powerplant is a 3.6litre V6 Holden Commodore engine. Hopes for a run in March.

Rev.H+


Title: australian
Post by: Glen on December 11, 2005, 07:49:43 PM
Nice looking hotrod, best of luck in March
Glen


Title: belly comments
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on December 11, 2005, 11:51:11 PM
Thanks Glen, these pics are a little old now, things moving quickly at the moment with seat construction on the weekend and our seven point harness being readied for fixing to the car.

I'll keep posting if the interest is there, er.. here.

Rev.H+


Title: belly tank
Post by: Glen on December 12, 2005, 09:14:03 AM
Keep on posting, we are all interested and have several headed your way in March
Glen


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 12, 2005, 12:56:48 PM
It looks good.  I wish I could bend round tubing like that.  How much castor do you have in the front?  I'm still trying to figure what I want.

I like the shape of the body a lot :D .

Good luck and for sure post more pictures,

Sum


Title: Front end
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on December 12, 2005, 06:26:21 PM
G'day Sum,



Our Castor is 30 degrees. We heard Rod Hadfields car was under that and the steering was "light" over 200 so we thought that since we were having the front axle made we would go for the ideal

We are running Holden (GM) EH stubs with Ford hubs (trailer hubs) so we can use the same wheels that most people are running so we can borrow if we get in trouble or lend if someone else needs them (friendly lot on the salt and we are not zillionaires!).

We have no suspension save two bits of rubber. We are very lucky at Lake Gairdner as the salt is of exceptional quality. Other belly tanks here have suspension in the design but have welded it up so we thought just design the system without and save the complexity. Less in the wind, better looking.

We have 1936 Ford split wishbones giving some extra support out wide.

Steering box is from a beetle.

Thanks for the comment re: bending. We did it with a combination of a manual pipe bender and a car jack stuck under a steel saw horse.

Photos below concentrate on the front end, show the tank and the plane it came from, plus the girlfriend hard at work on "tank day."

Keen to hear from fellow belly tankers. It is a peculiar disease isn't it?

Reverend Hedgash


Title: Extra attachments
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on December 12, 2005, 06:34:46 PM
Extra attachments


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: gazza414 on December 14, 2005, 02:19:27 AM
A pictures says a thousand words....... we'll have some to share in March.

That is SICK!!!!


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Drewfus on December 20, 2005, 02:23:15 AM
Looking good.

I take it you're familiar with Wayne's belly tanker (wazavudu) ?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/vudu002.jpg)

If not, email or PM me and I'll put you in touch.

Cheers,

Drewfus


Title: Wazavudu
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on December 20, 2005, 02:46:13 AM
Know him? We're related!!

Well our tanks are at least (there is some rumour that Dr Goggles may be a distant relative though...). Wayne gave us the remains of the tank he used for the canopy for Wazavudu which is the silver half tank you see on the top of ours making our creature its strange cousin.

Thank you for suggesting the link though. We met Wayne at Lake Gairdner two years ago and have been hasstling him with questions ever since.

Wazavudu is a very nicely made vehicle indeed and we look forward to its return in March with a new engine.

(I believe you have a fairly new photo of the tank given its lack of nose art...)

Reverend H+


Title: Re: Wazavudu
Post by: Drewfus on December 20, 2005, 03:05:01 AM
Quote from: Reverend Hedgash
I believe you have a fairly new photo of the tank given its lack of nose art...


Actually it's the opposite, a really early photo prior to the nose art.

I think Wayne has told me about your project, looking good.

Cheers,

Drewfus


Title: Wayne Mumford
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 20, 2005, 05:23:24 AM
Hi Drew (and the rest o' ya)
I've spoken to Wayne a couple of times lately ,he's our own St Christopher.He said to us early on ,"just keep going , don't stop" which plain as it seems has been a bit of a mantra for me..but I keep forgetting to ask about the 'tank that he sold to some guys in Shepparton , rumoured to be there for 2006..what is it I wonder .We're in E class which is a lonely little segment( suits us) at the moment , I hope it doesn't become the new black..What about Al Fountain ? he's up your way .That 440 B52 job is sure gonna add to the atmosphere out there .Apparently there's some Americans going too :D  :D  :wink: ...........


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 20, 2005, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: Drewfus
Looking good.

I take it you're familiar with Wayne's belly tanker (wazavudu) ?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/vudu002.jpg)

If not, email or PM me and I'll put you in touch.

Cheers,

Drewfus


That is one of the nicest looking lakesters I've ever seen.  Tell me more about it.  Looks like he is running vintage 4 class.  What motor?  How fast?  Do you have anymore pictures you can post?

Thanks,

Sum


Title: The Wazavudu
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 20, 2005, 05:00:29 PM
Hi Sum'
Yes it is beautiful , both in design and build .I'll try and get Wayne to make an appearance and fill you all in on the details.It was running V4 but it's now a Toyota 2 Litre (that's hard to say...unblown so far)He was at Bonneville this year , the car stayed home.


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Drewfus on December 20, 2005, 05:22:21 PM
Al's tank is looking a treat, will lift the spirits of everyone out there.

here's some old pics of it Craig sent me just after painting...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/saltcar105.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/saltcar091.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/saltcar090.jpg)

Wayne's car was running a 'b' engine, but that died before it even left the test track which was a disappointment.

Will be back this year with avengance, this time running a later model 4 cylinder.

Chuck Sharpe will be in attendance as well.

Here's some old pic's of Wayne's tank...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/DCP01229.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/View.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/Wayne.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/Img_3751.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/salt2004_027.jpg)

Cheers, and like Wayne Say's, keep plugging away, don't worry about what anyone else is doing, you'll get there, and it will be all worth while.

Cheers,

Drewfus


Title: Aussie tank:
Post by: Rex Schimmer on December 20, 2005, 05:56:08 PM
Dodge!!!! THAT IS A NICE LOOKING TANK!!!!!!


REX


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 1212FBGS on December 20, 2005, 06:37:28 PM
I love the tail on the blue one and the canopy on the yellow. cool stull and good luck
kr


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 20, 2005, 07:29:58 PM
Quote from: Drewfus
Wayne's car was running a 'b' engine, but that died before it even left the test track which was a disappointment.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/DCP01229.jpg)


You say a 'b' motor.  Blown?  Is that a turbo on the side in the picture with a draw thru carb setup?

Thanks for all the pictures they are great  :D .

BTW do any of you guys over there know Carps (Peter Carpenter)?

c ya, Sum


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Drewfus on December 20, 2005, 07:35:19 PM
that engine was turbo'ed.

Carps (quote boy).....sure do, its a small world.

Cheers,

Drewfus :D


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 20, 2005, 07:53:45 PM
Quote from: Drewfus
that engine was turbo'ed.

Carps (quote boy).....sure do, its a small world.

Cheers,

Drewfus :D


(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/temp-pictures/carps-2001.jpg)    

In the picture he is dreaming of driving this car  :D .  He has driven my truck on the salt at b'ville (2001).  That was ok, but I did worry when we went to town if he would remember which side of the road he was suppose to be on  :roll: .

He has been trying to get back for the past couple years, but health and job have kept him away.  He told me yesterday that there is a chance of him making a trip to the states this spring.

I'm envious of the guys from here going over there this spring.  I'll be over sometime in the future to meet as many of you guys as I can.

You probably also know Brootel.  He and Sue stayed at my house on their Honey Moon a couple years ago.

c ya sometime,  Sum


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Drewfus on December 20, 2005, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Sumner
He told me yesterday that there is a chance of him making a trip to the states this spring.


His health has caused him alot of heartach, as it has left him at times allowing him to achieve some of his goals, but he's getting there.

Quote from: Sumner
I'm envious of the guys from here going over there this spring.  I'll be over sometime in the future to meet as many of you guys as I can.


belive it or not we've met, talked to you guys at b'ville this year...I was the one with the forgettable face... :D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/sum01.jpg)

Quote from: Sumner
You probably also know Brootel.  He and Sue stayed at my house on their Honey Moon a couple years ago.


Good friends with both Boris and Sue, they recently had a boy, and are moving back to Perth.

A shot from Boris, some Friends, and myself drove down to Melbourne..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/DREWFUSboris.jpg)

Cheers,

Drewfus


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 20, 2005, 09:16:20 PM
OK, I didn't put the name and the "forgetable face" together  :oops: .  I remember now talking to you guys.

It is funny, but when I'm there with Hooley vs. before as a spectator I seem to get wrapped up in things, have tunnel vision and miss a lot of things I use to do.  Like spend more time with others.

If you see Boris and Sue tell them hi.  Nice car!!

I'll be seeing you again  :D,

Sum


Title: reposting.
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 12, 2006, 03:42:11 AM
Thanks for all the replies we received regarding our latest updates unfortunately lost due to the slacker hacker.

I shall repost some of our images to patch up the gap.

In short we have chopped the tank up and placed the pieces around the car and were very happy with the fit.

We checked our dimensions along the way using CAD an example of which is attached which lead to a very keen observation by Rex Schimmer which I shall answer next post.

Back on the Block.

Reverend H+


Title: Minimum Ride Height and aero issues
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 12, 2006, 05:18:34 AM
Rex,

thankyou for your observation regarding our low ride height and potential drag.

I am writing this reply to you and to whoever else is interested or wish to chuck their two cents in.

Apologies for the usage of the high falutin metric system.

For those who missed it Rex pointed to a page in Goro Tamai's "The Leading Edge" discussing the manner by which drag quickly increases below a certain ride height and cited some figures which seem to threaten our design's efficiency.

I must admit that this area has had both the good Doctor Goggles and myself ponderous as to the correct direction to take so I went out and found a copy of the book. Below is a history as to how the bottom is as it is at present.

Our main Aerodynamics text to date has been  "Race Car Aerodynamics" by Joseph Katz, Ph.D which I can recommend for its readability and information.

The difference between the two texts is that Katz's book focuses on methods of maximising downforce due to aero effects whilst minimising drag whereas Tamai's focus is about eliminating downforce altogether.

Tomai's book is written primarily for  solar cars where energy conservation is a priority and traction issues marginal. As the title suggests Katz's focusses on racecars which have different criteria (eg cornering and acceleration issues).

Upon reading Katz and understanding the traction difficulties on salt,  we found ourselves considering all sorts of thoughts of ground effect devices but for a number of reasons were reticent to embrace them.

Firstly we did not wish to destroy the traditional style of the belly tank so we were reticent to go too far with a diffuser etc.

Secondly, we are building against the clock so we wish to keep it simple for its first years out then can tune the shape against a base model.

Finally it is a bit of a black science when you don't possess a wind tunnel and you could do a lot of work that makes the Dodge thing slower.

We were cheered up by the fact that the So-Cal Lakester belly tank wannabe (So-Called belly tank?) turned up sporting a similar method that we considered. Rex mentioned that it hasn't performed well yet but in its defence Bonneville has seemed to be pretty rough of late and not conducive to ground effect technology. Neither is several inches of water  so the jury is out for me on that one.

My understanding of how it works by looking at it is a splitter at the front to stop air creeping under and provide some downforce at the front, then has a difuser at the back to accelerate the air that is underneath so that a low pressure zone is acheived by the Benouli affect pulling it down. It doesn't seem to have skirts so I would imagine that it sucks more in from the side rather than the car down causing drag inducing vortices... correct me if I am wrong. (anyone GM?)

Anyway, for the above reasons we have decided to not have any ground effects for March and have addressed the issue of traction by making it HEAVY. (No replies please Propster).

Our intention was to get the car as low as possible for stability and to acheive the goal of having the axles on the centre line this put the diff in the widest point of the car and meant body panels could sit over each appendage minimising cutouts, oh yeah it looks cool too.

A number of cars at the salt are really low and perform well so we assumed that the drag due to ground proximity was minimal. For example one car we have enjoyed watching develop is John and Paul Brougham's belly tank which has put in multiple 200mph runs over the past couple of years at Gairdner and is very low (see image). Admittedly it is a little TOO low as it bottoms out a bit at the moment but larger Goodyear Eagles are on their way! Both John and Paul have been very helpful in providing us with much info along the way.

The Brougham tank does have a curved base though where we are proposing a flat base. Our favorite tank was the Hooper tank (the flat head killer) (see image) and part of its charm is the low flat base, as is Xydias' original SoCal and we made the decision early to go down this path.

So what height is the best height?

On page 118 of Tomai is a graph outlining the best ground clearance heights for certain shapes to ensure lack of drag due to ground effect.

Rex indicated the row entitled, ?torpedo shape with an oval width / height of 1.25 and length/height of 3.6. has a H/l of  0.3 min. to 0.05 ; that is a minimum ground clearance of 126mm to 210mm for ours (our car being 4.2m metres long.)

Currently we are around 40mm so that looks way under.

But our w/h is 0.88 / 0.81 = 0.92 and l/h is 4.2 / 0.884 =4.75 and extremely tapered. Tomai's calcs are predominantly to be used for a solar car of width of 2metres and 400 to 700mm thick and of fairly uniform shape for the length.

A better zone of the graph therefore to look at is:

?Torpedo with flat bottom with various cambers and width=height? which is worked out as a ratio of height to breadth at a Hmin ratio of 0.15.

For our car that makes 121.5mm (a whole 3.5mm lower!!!!) but at least it confirms that we are at the lower end of the scale.

The fact the whole shape is tapering I assume will lower the impact as well....?

The mention of "Camber" refers to the amount the centreline axis of the shape is above the chord from tip to toe expressed as a percentage. (Bloody ?camber,? couldn?t the nerds have used a term not already in the automotive lexicon???)

The curve of the centerline of our car caused by the extra tank on top and chopped bottom  helps counter the drag caused by proximity to the ground  by increasing the distance traveled over the top of the car and hence similarly accelerating it helping equalize pressure.

The book says the ideal amount is between 3% and 6%. I worked out ours to be 4.7% (yay). Apparently the best shape to have is a slight ?S? shape in this camber. Ours is that slight S shape so that seems helpful.


Drag versus downforce?

It would seem to me though if we are running a car with more horses than we are putting to ground through traction issues on salt then ground effects are the way to go. The racecar book says that the downforce via diffusers et al is a cheap payoff, and we can overcome the extra drag by the extra efficiency of getting power to ground.


If we find that we are only just pulling top gear (or heaven forbid worse!!!) then reducing drag to the utmost becomes paramount and then up she goes!

This will be one of the many possible learning things in March should all go well.

 
Sorry for the lengthy post Rex (trying to get those points) but I wanted to answer your query with a complete reply and to prompt some discussion on this and maybe even assist someone else...

Also I missed the forum!!

Reverend H+


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rex Schimmer on January 12, 2006, 01:10:14 PM
Reverend,
Thanks for the great reply! I certainly understand the pressures of trying to get something ready for the race, it seems that they will start the race if you are there or not! So you bust Acura to make it happen. As far as ground affects go, I did talk to the young aero engineer that claims responsibility for the new So Cal tank and he claims that the ground affects on that car have no effect on the drag. Well, he was claiming to be an "aerodynamicist" and I am just an old engineer that likes to "diddle" in the aero stuff BUT nothing is free! If you generate any kind of aero lift, up or down, then you have a coefficient of lift which means that you have to supply some kind of HP to make it happen. Yes maybe the So Cal car has a small Cl but it does have one and it does take power to overcome and with HP limited cars that can be the difference between just going fast and going fast enough to have the record. The one think about the "sun cars" discussed in the "Leading Edge" is that they are all very restricted on HPs and so they really do alot to make sure that they have everything low drag and very low lift. It makes a big difference as to the aero detail you need to look at if you have a 2000 HP Hemi in the back.

My favorite tank lakester is Seth Hammonds old car, look at the ground clearance, lots of it! and that car holds more records in more classes with more drivers, than just about any car.

Good luck on making the March meet and let us know how you do!!!!!

Rex


Title: Seth hammond
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 12, 2006, 06:17:07 PM
Yes the Seth Hammond Lakester is a beautiful Car and obviously fast too.

I particularly like the front end, its nostril and flared axle housing. The rear driving position is particularly groovy too. It has a particular Syd Mead look to it.

We actually modified an image of his car as a mock up to explore which direction we wanted to take.

I hope I am not infringing copywrite by showing it here but it was an internal design exercise and consider it homage!

Rev. H+


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 13, 2006, 10:10:08 AM
I look at the height issue from two different angles.  

If you aren't running suspension or very little the put it on the ground and maybe put some skirts on it, like Flatfire, and keep the air from under the car.

If you have a couple inches of suspension travel and putting it on the ground isn't an option then raise it like Tamai talks about in THE LEADING EDGE.  I'm in the second mode, so I have about 6 inches of clearance at the lowest point of what will be my rounded bottom body.  I have 7 to the bottom frame/cage members now.  I had read his book a year or so and made note of the part that says as the body gets close to the ground the drag goes up.

One note though on that thought is on page 128 right before section 3.4 he talks about a Yakel body, which looks somewhat like a lakester to me and he mentioned that type body on a b'ville type car (I couldn't find a picture) that went 248 mph on about 160 hp (I'd like to know which car this was).  Anyway the body had a drag of about 0.17 at a ground clearance of 10.2 cm (4 in).  The drag decreased about 6% when the body was lowered to a ground clearance of 7.6 cm (3 in.).  This seems to contradict what he says elsewhere in the book.

I'm trying to get my body into a shape somewhat similar to the Northern Essex Comm. Coll. car shown on page 15 and the back cover. Of course all cars are going to be compromises somewhere and no matter how hard you try to make an aero body right you are going to have to give up something somewhere just to make the car work.

How about some of you guys that are already running lakesters, have you tried your car at different ride heights?

c ya, Sum


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: John Burk on January 13, 2006, 03:00:00 PM
Reverend
Thank you for your interesting posts . The trouble with down force , there's little of it when it's needed and when it's strongest and adding drag it's not needed .


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: dwarner on January 14, 2006, 01:10:33 PM
The Lynn Yakel designed car mentioned is the Larson and Cummins streamliner.

DW


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 14, 2006, 03:32:16 PM
Quote from: dwarner
The Lynn Yakel designed car mentioned is the Larson and Cummins streamliner.

DW


Thanks Dan, I think I have pictures somewhere of it.

Sum


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 17, 2006, 04:05:53 PM
Quote from: Sumner
One note though on that thought is on page 128 right before section 3.4 he talks about a Yakel body, which looks somewhat like a lakester to me and he mentioned that type body on a b'ville type car (I couldn't find a picture) that went 248 mph on about 160 hp (I'd like to know which car this was).  Anyway the body had a drag of about 0.17 at a ground clearance of 10.2 cm (4 in).  The drag decreased about 6% when the body was lowered to a ground clearance of 7.6 cm (3 in.). This seems to contradict what he says elsewhere in the book.


Well maybe I can answer my own question.

(http://rodandcustommagazine.com/thehistoryof/p154740_image_small.jpg)    

Looking at the Lynn Yakel designed Larsen/Cummings car I can see why lowering it helped with the drag.  It has a pretty flat  bottomed/wide body that would respond to keeping the air out from under it.  Now most of the solar cars have a similar shape, but the wheels/tires they run allow the body to be raised quite a ways off the ground, which is pretty impractical with a car like the Larsen/Cummings streamliner.

I think with a narrow/rounded body (tank) car it is best to keep it off of the ground by at least 5-6 inches.

c ya, Sum


Title: Fred Larsen
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 17, 2006, 05:34:03 PM
......nice car , canny competitor...I like this quote from F.L about rear engined cars

"?You?re sitting so far forward, you don?t know what?s happening back there. That?s why I built a slingshot?my streamliner. If the rear wheels move an inch, your butt moves an inch and a quarter.?

I've been struggling through "The Leading Edge" .........it's , um ,dry...

So you'll be looking down on us Sum' ?, I just hope we're passing you at that moment ..............  :P


Title: Re: Fred Larsen
Post by: Sumner on January 17, 2006, 07:39:17 PM
(http://rodandcustommagazine.com/thehistoryof/p154730_image_large.jpg)    
Quote from: Dr Goggles
Fred Larsen said ?You?re sitting so far forward, you don?t know what?s happening back there. That?s why I built a slingshot?my streamliner. If the rear wheels move an inch, your butt moves an inch and a quarter.?

They say a front cockpit car is harder to drive or at least you find out you are in a bad situation late in the game  :( .  For those of you that would like to read the Rod & Custom article about Fred Larsen you can find it ( HERE (http://rodandcustommagazine.com/thehistoryof/80458/)).  Harv thanks for reminding me of it  :) .  

Quote from: Dr Goggles
I've been struggling through "The Leading Edge" .........it's , um ,dry...

I didn't do too bad in math in school, but I skip most of it in that book.  Makes it much faster to get through to the conclusions  :wink: .

Quote from: Dr Goggles
So you'll be looking down on us Sum' ?, I just hope we're passing you at that moment ..............  :P

How high is it to the top of your car?  I'm about 35 inches to the top of mine with the bottom 6 inches off the ground.  I don't think they allow passing on the salt  :lol: , besides I'll be about 12,000 miles ahead of you or behind you :roll: :?:   :roll:  :?: .

c ya, Sum


Title: passing lane
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 18, 2006, 12:06:19 AM
you wrote " besides I'll be about 12,000 miles ahead of you or behind you"

D..oops I mean, Touche! :lol:  :lol:


Title: Belly Tank dimensions
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 18, 2006, 06:16:30 PM
Thanks for the posts on ground clearance everybody.

The decision for this year will be to cut back to our 50mm (2 inches)  height from the ground as planned to just get the thing there and moving.

It is a relatively easy operation to lower the axles in the future to raise ride height if required and the base of the car will remain the same relative to everything inside. (Its dictated by our bum in the seat too, both of us are 6 foot one and so getting us to fit in the front was a juggle of many figures. )

We feel that the roll bar treatment of many contempory belly tanks has been their weakest feature so have really concentrated on getting the looks of this right, and making it as low as possible. Its lines will be expressed in the canopy and in the future livery.

The windscreen is yet to be made, any information given here would be greatly appreciated. We are thinking that the process will be to make a mold and have something vac formed over it.

Other thoughts were a sailplane canopy if one flukes our dimensions.

For this year we will get a motorcycle windscreen as a temporary measure with some polycarbonite bent over to fill the gap and secured with straps.

You will be looking over us Sum, by an inch and a half. Our dimensions are as follows:

At 50mm ground clearance our heighest point is 880mm (34.6inches) from the ground which is roughly the top of our rollcage.

The original tank is 810mm (31 inches) at its widest point one third down the length and is 4200mm (165 inches).

We are running 28inch Goodyear Landspeeds on the back which run at about 27inches the centre of which sets our centre line forthe tank at 13.5 inches.

We have 26inch Mickey Thompsons at the front and with our axle Holden stubs arrangement have the front axle just below centre.

Our track width is the original ford rear end width, although when we had the wheels made (ford with kombi rims) we had the rims offset to better hide the drum brakes at the rear and to minimise track width.

We had our front axle made to match the track of the rear axle.

We had a lot of discussion over whether to make the rear track narrower by chopping the axles in order to help directional control but decided keeping the wheels in line were better for streamlining and something we could do later if needs be.

Also the advantage of keeping the wheels wider should reduce the effect of the turbulent air from the wheels on the body's airflow. Also it should help stability in a spin.

The penalty of increased frontal area is marginal as it is a few inches of rounded axle only.

Reverend Richard Hedgash


Title: Re: Belly Tank dimensions
Post by: Sumner on January 18, 2006, 07:16:31 PM
(http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/bubbles/hpvoven.gif)    

Quote from: Reverend Hedgash
The windscreen is yet to be made, any information given here would be greatly appreciated. We are thinking that the process will be to make a mold and have something vac formed over it.


If you look at my "links" on my site ( HERE (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bvillelinks.htm)) you will find one link on vacuum forming and another on blowing a canopy.

I'll also PM you a couple paragraphs related to the subject I have.  I'll have this same problem ahead of me, but I'm not very close to having to solve it at the moment.

I'll be anxious to see how you guys do with the car.  Good luck,

Sum


Title: Tow Car trouble
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 18, 2006, 10:04:52 PM
Thanks Sum for the windscreen bumpf. Good stuff in there. I wonder how optically pure doing it this way is though?

We have had a diversive set back:

Building a car is one thing, then there is the trailer to put it on (in) but we didn't expect we had to rebuild the bloody tow truck as well!!!

Its been a bad Christmas break for the truck.

Firing badly, hole in the extractor, and using way too much gas (Runs on natural gas not gasolene). The engine was tested and found to be low on compression and the decision made to finally replace the donk. Have gone for a chevy 350V8, new carb and electronic dist. with Vortec head, roller rockers etc.  Will ebay the old one.

Dr Goggles pulled out the old engine today and found the clutch also needs replacing. sheesh.

Now this truck was my home for three and a half years so I have a lot of fond memories of it (and some crap ones too) so I having decided to bring it up to speed, I have decided to do it properly.

Its a 350 Custom 30 Chev tray with a step through motorhome on the back. Sleeps four and has shower kitchen and toilet.

Have been meaning to do a number on the interior but nothing really done as yet. Focusing too much on the belly tank.

Shall paint the Reverend Hedgash Dr Goggles racing team logo and maybe some flames on the white body too. Crossed racing flags at the front. Has some very nice striping done at present. A little more Urban Cowboy than von Dutch...

Still, should trick up nicely to be a salt lake push truck / team headquarters and home away from home.

Shall post images of engine install as we go.

Its a never ending list to get there isn't there????

Reverend H+.
Financially exhausted!


Title: out they go!!!
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 19, 2006, 03:03:32 AM
$@#^@@!$%@ :evil:  :evil: ....second motor I've hoisted this week in the team daily drivers.....correct on all counts though 'Gash.........the transplant'll be done tomorrow God( he drives a Chev apparently) willing..it should be good for roll-backs with the new mill..ta for the blow mould info Sum' you're a right fount. Got sunburnt today and it's 35 tomorrow :(


Title: Natural gas
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 19, 2006, 12:06:48 PM
Rev. Hedgash -- you say you had a natural gas vehicle -- but do you still have one, now that you've gone through all these changes?  I ask because my '89 GMC Jimmy has a natural gas setup that I haven't used since they took away the only compressors for 200 miles.  that was at least fve years ago.  If you wanted something from the old beast -- I'd be glad to think about sending it your way.  I've got the two gas bottles, for instance -- unh, I think they're 10L each (range of the vehicle was about 80-90 miles on CNG).  They're located inside the cab of the vehicle -- won't have any corrosion or nasty crud on 'em.  

The gas injection system and all electronics are still intact, too, although I doubt they'd be worth a whole hell of a lot -- the conversion was made in the early 90's, and so is probably a few generations out of date.

Sure did like CNG as a fuel, though -- at 100,000 miles the factory spark plugs were still fine -- still white, still had sharp edges on the electrodes.  I replaced 'em mostly 'cause I wanted to have 'em as souvenirs to show folks.  Too bad I didn't buy that small compressor and install it at my shop -- fuel with no road taxes is WAY cheaper than what you buy at the gas station.

If you want the tanks or are interested in anything that might be on the truck, let me know.  I use the truck (on gasoline) as my snowplow truck, so you can't have the motor, though. . .


Title: Thanks
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 22, 2006, 05:02:12 AM
Thanks for your offer Seldom, very generous indeed.

Unfortunately I probably didn't make clear that our truck runs on LPG (liquid Petroleum Gas) which you may know is a bit different to the stuff that you are talking about.

I am continuing to use the set up, in fact it is duel fuel in that I can run it on both LPG and petrol. LPG is much cheaper than petrol in Australia.

I have to do this because although LPG is available pretty well Australia wide, the last station from Lake Gairdner is 250 km away, so a round trip is 500km plus the daily running and the truck just doesn't have this range.

(For those coming petrol is available at the station property at Lake Gairdner.)

I have two 60 litre tanks for the gas and one 40 litre tank for the petrol. That gives me room to move and ability to refill from jerry cans etc.

The engine is now in the Chev,  Dr Goggles had to work in 40plus degrees centigrade (over a hundred degrees F) for the past few days under the truck. As soon as you put a tool in the sun it became too hot to handle.

42.5 degrees today.

The old extractors are stuffed so new ones being considered.

Thanks again Slim.

Reverend H+


Title: Oh Mama! can this really be the.........
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 23, 2006, 05:57:27 AM
...just like one of those bad dreams where the beastie is after you and your legs ..just ...don't...want....to....work...fast....enough...Speedweek looms at Gairdner and nothing has happened on the car for over a week..re-motoring the Chev' outdoors in searing heat sapped my energy something severe...Sunday was 43 degrees C ( that's like 200 F, well almost) and all I could do was look at the 'tank and mutter to myself , I sat in it and it all seemed wrong :oops:  :(  :cry: .... As the arch conundrist Jack D said...we Aussies need more events during the year to develop our rides....last years meet seems like weeks ago but having to wait until 2007 if we don't get the car there this year is doing me head in!!!

If praying is your thing keep us in mind :roll:


Title: Save your prayers
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 24, 2006, 06:42:24 AM
We've buckled . The Jarman-Stewart bellytank won't be going to Gairdner 'til 2007 . I doubt there are many of you who watch this board who don't understand the pressure , expense and effort of designing and building something by yourself out of your own pocket .

We all need a holiday and there's no better place for one than Lake Gairdner during Speedweek. 8)  8)  

In the dumps but in a way relieved too , call us weak , we don't care we'll be there next year and by then we'll be well sorted .So hang it on us now ,we need a good laugh :lol: .

Dr Goggles ( no , the Doctor is OUT!)


Title: REMEMBER
Post by: JackD on January 24, 2006, 07:10:58 AM
A lifetime work is just that and deserves all the time you have
 over what ever length it takes for your satisfaction.
  Don't be consumed by it.
You are not playing to anybodys schedule but your own.
The idea is to get it ready for an event but never call it finished or you will be. :wink:


Title: Belly Tank no show.
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 24, 2006, 07:29:05 AM
It is true.

We have decided after more than two years of weekends of hard work and a desperate escalation in work rate over the past few months to acheive a runner for 2006 that it will be not in the interests of the sport or us to rush the completion of this project.

We have always designed with the triangle of Safety - Speed - Beauty foremost in our mind.

Although we didn't expect to be hitting big speeds this year, just hoping for a run, we feel that with so much to do we would significantly reduce the craft of the project, potentially the safety and definately the beauty if we worked desperately to get it ready over the next month.

It wouldn't be the Land-Speed Racing way, hey?

Thanks everyone for the input thus far. We will definately be pestering you for another year now as rookies.

It is a great obsession. We are both devastated but know it is right.

We can lighten up a bit now and spend a bit of time getting ready for the trip to the salt sans car (a two day road trip), finishing the truck, developing our menu, building some nifty things for the salt.

For example we saw the fantastic blender with the motorcycle handle throttle on Mark's video of Bonneville. Hilarious.

Can also find the time to watch the Ack attack run which will be a real treat.

Thanks for your comments Jack. Take it at our own speed, yes.

I can enjoy it more and not be so stressed about it now the decision has been made. That is what it is all about.

Reverend H+


Title: MONSTERS
Post by: JackD on January 24, 2006, 09:37:12 AM
You guys are going to be vicious spectators that I wouldn't wish on anybody.
 Armed with a camera, a curious eye, and the time to use it.
 As part of your probation we expect a full report.
 Take a lot of pictures, we can turn them over when they get here.
How else are we going to know you were not just having fun while we have to stay home.
You must realize the blender deal is for medical use only, but you do have a Doctor and a Chaplain along. :wink:


Title: Re: Belly Tank no show.
Post by: Sumner on January 24, 2006, 12:45:07 PM
Quote from: Reverend Hedgash
We have decided after more than two years of weekends of hard work and a desperate escalation in work rate over the past few months to achieve a runner for 2006 that it will be not in the interests of the sport or us to rush the completion of this project.............


Sorry to hear that, but I fully understand.  I think you guys are making the right decision. I've finally started to realize in my old age that the process should be as much fun as the result.  It took me about a year longer to build my house than anticipated, but it got done and didn't totally kill me doing it.  I'm trying to stay focused on my lakester and make steady progress, but it will get done when it gets done.  I'm having a lot of fun building it and don't want to turn that process into a chore.  It would be great to run at one of the meets this year, but that most likely won't happen :cry: , but I'll live through it :D .

Go to the salt and have fun and keep plugging away on the car it is only about 13 months before it will have to be done to run in 2007 and that can go by pretty quickly :D .

c ya one of these days,

Sum


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on January 31, 2006, 04:46:10 PM
It'll probably mean a tinnie to the back of the head at the meet this year, but I though you might enjoy some winner shots of these two nutters, taken at Speed Week 04. Put a face to the frenetic build diary: that's The Rev in grandiose wide angle at Lake Gairdner, and Dr. Goggles in his Birthday Suit.

I'm a buddy, also building a car (2 years and counting, run in 07 - for sure!)  and like The Doc and The Rev, recently started a transport truck re-build.

****** EDIT ****
Annus Mirabilis 2010… ah, scandalous times. The pics seemed to fall off the server during a nasty storm a few years ago.
Lost forever… maybe... probably for the best
******

PJQ
Velocity Science Laboratories


Title: death to good taste and cleanliness
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 31, 2006, 05:25:43 PM
Aw hell that ruined my breakfast and probably a few others' too ...... :oops:


Title: Re: death to good taste and cleanliness
Post by: Sumner on January 31, 2006, 06:31:18 PM
Quote from: Dr Goggles
Aw hell that ruined my breakfast and probably a few others' too ...... :oops:


Hey Doc when you come over here I think you ought to forget about B'ville and go straight to the Burning Man Festival at Black Rock :twisted: .

Just kidding I'm looking forward to meeting you and Rev. either here or over there.  Just hope you found you clothes by then 8) .  It must be hell welding in that get-up.

c ya,  Sum


Title: VERY INSPIRATIONAL
Post by: JackD on January 31, 2006, 06:53:01 PM
The pictures were very inspirational and touched many hearts.
 Just this afternoon we have raised over $12k American and after I deduct my
usual fees we have enough left to get both of you in new clothing.
 Not any of that second hand stuff.
 We are going to put it with one of your regularly scheduled air drops every 3 months.
 We just missed the big Christmas deal but the first 1/4 will really go fast.
We hope that will help, actually we are really counting on it.
Jack :wink:

OBTW: BBB was a little concerned that it looks like you don't eat too good.
 Maybe if you don't spit out all the flies.


Title: 'spirations
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 31, 2006, 06:58:45 PM
............I guess this means an end to my political aspirations , drop those clothes at my house ( Sum' has the coordinates) 'cause I don't think I can step out right now. PJQ is toast.


Title: Well if experience is any teacher
Post by: JackD on January 31, 2006, 07:08:46 PM
our politicians start out in a suit and end up naked.
The big difference is they are all much bigger in the end and the belly button is quite a distance from the backbone.
It looks like you are spending all your lunch money on the car again.


Title: Peter be Quick
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 31, 2006, 07:10:34 PM
PJQ I have photos of you and Mark and a copy of Photoshop...

Now if you want me to go and get creative on yo Acura just go ahead and leave those images on our post...

The Most Royally Reverent Richard Hedgash


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on January 31, 2006, 08:03:50 PM
Uh-oh, that Pith Helmut, new for this year, will be doing more than simply shading the dome.

PJQ
Velocity Science Laboratories


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: maj on February 01, 2006, 07:12:45 AM
Dr G
You have spent too much time in Animals company :lol:


Title: ACTUALLY
Post by: JackD on February 01, 2006, 08:15:35 AM
Quote from: maj
Dr G
You have spent too much time in Animals company :lol:

Actually maybe not enough or the choice is wrong.
Be particularly careful when dating out of your species, sometimes they want a long term commitment. :wink:


Title: Hybrid Vigour
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 02, 2006, 04:55:52 AM
........OK.OK ,OK... I've had a haircut , and this year I'm gonna wear a full burka , are you all happy?....and yeah I've got form with sheep , but I never REALLY loved one......work and romance never are a good mix......

 If things go as planned we'll be taking an old Vespa with a heaven and hell scene on the back (in 3D all over the guards ) and Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden on the front , it has a crucifix backrest and we're making a sidecar for it. Make no mistake it will be a dangerous concern , standard brakes and the real possibility of being run over by anything following that is capable of over 10mph......I plan to mount a pair of Super-soakers( one for water and one for the Jammo's) and it will of course have room for an Esky...

Ok Jack , let it roll...............................


Title: Wow !
Post by: JackD on February 02, 2006, 09:30:48 AM
That Marriage Mobile sounds like you have given it a lot of thought.
 I see your business really booming.
 The only thing I might suggest is a small trailer suitable for vending.
 You don't want to let the crowd go away wanting. :wink:


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on February 02, 2006, 05:28:43 PM
Ah, the smell of a two-stroke hair dryer in the morning, you're tugging at my heart strings now. Me and Animal will be elbowing each other at the front of the Celebrant queue.

You tease, getting even for the photo post no doubt.

It's Mr. Q to you darl's


Title: vaughn seat photos
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 03, 2006, 06:11:44 AM
Our seat for the tank is a front wheel guard from an HZ Holden. Just reposting photos. Called a Vaughn seat after the inventor.


Title: I gotta tell ya.
Post by: JackD on February 03, 2006, 10:14:40 AM
If you found your driver in that position , I am not sure how good that is.
But seriously, spend a lot of time looking at every direction and with how much force
that you can expect when you need the protection.
Once an upset happens you rely on the protection that you brought with you.
 Equal support is a primary objective, but having the strength to stay in place is equally important.
Just as an example, seat belt grade straps behind the seat will offer a huge strength advantage
 to keep the support from going out of shape.
A 6 point harness grabs up your thighs that often represent 80% if your muscle mass.
 A chest strap can hold your shape in the seat.
The shoulder harness must be tensioned against something like a strap down between your feet
 to prevent your travel with your head and neck up into the cage.


Title: Restraint
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 03, 2006, 06:40:13 PM
Thanks Jack, valid points all.


The photo of Dr G's posture in the car is an early one and we have proceeded to cut down the rear of the seat and distort the shape as needs be.

We have a seven point harness passing through the seat to the structural frame of the car avoiding contact with the seat at all points. When on it feels like your whole torso cannot move allowing your arms and legs to do what they will.

The space behind  the seat is where we are putting fire suppression components, kindly donated by "Cold Fire" in Austraila.

Four speed gimbal gear stick is from a Holden Gemina and cost a total of $25, and should link up well to the box at the back. Finding the ideal place in the cabin is proving tricky as we don't want it to be an injury point...

Reverend H+


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Drewfus on February 19, 2006, 09:52:46 PM
Sorry to hear that the debut will have to wait till next year.....

Fear not, keep at it none the less, as 'all will be good' the day you hit that starting line....

Cheers,

Drewfus


Title: Nexty ear
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 20, 2006, 12:53:51 AM
Hi Drewfus
I got so busy handling enquiries about the nudity scandal that we couldn't get the 'tank done in time. Are you going to be there?? It's time Mr Mumford put in some serious runs , I saw him at the meeting a few weeks back but didn't get a chance to talk to him , when I did last speak he seemed to think they'd be cookin' . I dunno if Lynchie has the new motor sorted ,rumour from Robbo was it was all solid , head and block, any ideas? What about Al Fountain are they gonna be there ?

I've been spending money on my EH Panel Van to make sure it gets there, it's a change from driving a bomb and putting all the hard earned into the tank .I'd like to take my old Monaro but it's thirstier than me , ifyaknowwhatimean :wink:


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Drewfus on February 20, 2006, 01:04:21 AM
Unfortunately not this year, my wife and I are expecting our first child, therefore alot to be done prior.
To the best of my knowledge, everyone else mentioned will be, with bells on.

Drewfus


Title: Lids
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 23, 2006, 03:08:31 PM
With bells , or snells?


Title: Creativity abounds
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 01, 2006, 07:06:52 PM
Hey good luck drewfus on your own "Belly tank" creation!

But you should have known not to produce offspring around Speed Week time else you will always be torn between junior's birthday and the salt.

All Australian racers take note. No sex in July. Put it in your diaries.

And no weddings either!! (unless its at the salt...)

Rev. H+


Title: Re: Creativity abounds
Post by: Drewfus on March 01, 2006, 10:00:36 PM
Thanks, you guys get those CD's yet?

Quote from: Reverend Hedgash
But you should have known not to produce offspring around Speed Week time else you will always be torn between junior's birthday and the salt.


Yes and no, I have a plan......junior will want to go to 'disneyland' etc like every child.....and since we're flying so far, we might as well stop over (in a big roundabout kinda way..) at Bonneville, child gets hooked on cars, and we're on a winner.... :wink:  :D

Cheers,

Drewfus


Title: Salt Disney
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 02, 2006, 12:18:29 AM
Stuff Disneyland. Walt was a misogynist beaten by his father really intent on building a scale railroad in post apocolyptic America. Whilst  William S. Burroughs was writing a Junkies Christmas Walt was providing a more marketable disillionment. Ever wonder why there are no decent mother figures in a Disney cartoon?

Better go to Space Mountain, then Burning Man, then Bonneville. Cut the MacDonalds too, keep control.

Epcot in the east is a tad more interesting but really living off the old pipe dream that technology is the answer after a reasonable U.S. showing in the Korean War.

You are in charge of this future racer's artistic endeavours, Drewf, invest wisely.

Rev. H+


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 1212FBGS on March 07, 2006, 10:09:27 PM
yeh... what he said.....!....? :?
Rev ol buddy... i hadda stand on my head ta figger that 1 out.... but that maked me dizzzzy 2. my head hurts, dems wuz some big words rev.
kent


Title: Re: Creativity abounds
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 12, 2006, 03:35:33 PM
Quote from: Drewfus
Thanks, you guys get those CD's yet?

Cheers,

Drewfus
............................yup , haven't got through looking at them though Drewfus....I had to go to this crazy event over in South Australia at this salt lake place where they race cars and bikes , far-out !!...there was even Americans there , who ever would have thought? 8)

.....there'll be more on that later , and this year there will be no photo's such as that posted of me prev. on this thread :D

What I did see of your photo's looked great...I'll return the gesture in kind with my Gairdner '06 stuff.

BTW any sign of the bub yet?


Title: Re: Creativity abounds
Post by: Drewfus on March 12, 2006, 05:12:16 PM
Quote from: Dr Goggles

What I did see of your photo's looked great...I'll return the gesture in kind with my Gairdner '06 stuff.


Thanks, I'm sure the details will be of assistance in your build.....one way or another...

Quote from: Dr Goggles
BTW any sign of the bub yet?


Was 'scaned' the other week, moves around alot, all fingers and toes acounted for, so looking good.

Cheers,

Drewfus :D


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Richard Thomason on March 12, 2006, 05:36:55 PM
Birthdays of children are not a problem. I have photos of my oldest daughter celebrating her first birthday on the salt in Sept of "84". She has not been there every year, but for many she has. We have to train our families early.
rht


Title: aero
Post by: EVLEE on April 23, 2006, 02:26:22 PM
I saw that you were looking at downforce for your bellytank car?
 I think if you run flat Aluminum along the bottom surface of your car ,leaving about 2" or 40cm. sicking out the side (parallel to the ground) this will keep air that is being forced around the sides of the car from filtering down under the car.This is very cheap (as in drag)downforce.If you want more downforce just add a diffuser at the rear.I plan on using this on my EV1 Streamliner.I also am planning on 2007 but at Bonneville.
                                Lee


Title: 'gress of one kind or another....
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 23, 2006, 10:01:18 PM
Hi all
we're inching ahead to the point we're our huge dreams can be converted into small achievements.....the drive train is in and kinda sorta seems right , the gear shift isn't totally finalized but it's close and the plating in of the body is going well .This week our "engine man " collected up a box full of mandrel bends so next weekend the exhaust construction will commence .the initial idea is to just run the motor pretty stock  N/A so we'll be sending one pipe out the tail...comments welcome.

The fitment of the body is moving along too , despite well meaning advice from you all we've chopped the bottom of the tank, it's not as tragic as it sounds because the Canberra(U2??) tank we have is a "slipper" which fits to the end of the wing and thus the attachment point is assymetrical....if in time we do want to lift the tank we can just make a "prosthetic bottom"( the mind boggles!)..the only down side being that our CG in that instance would be a little higher than it could have been....

it's cold here , colder than I like anyway........

On another front I've enrolled in a tech school course to formalize my welding skills and maybe chase out some bad habits that started when I learnt , at 12.


Title: It lives! Well it coughs...
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on May 29, 2006, 03:15:23 AM
Yes! We received our starter motor (courtesy ebay) and attached it.

Dr. Go ripped the battery out of the panel van and in a second she was wired.

A touch of the contacts and the motor turned.

IT"S ALIVE!!!

Well almost. It would help if we had a fuel tank etc. but it sounded like a real car, not some thing built in a garden shed by two salt encrusted dreamers.

Now this is not so hard you may say, its a common engine from thousands of Aussie cars... but this has been after all the work shortening the gearbox (see earlier email) and recently the trials of having to add all the rarer and more expensive manual items for what sells mostly as an automatic engine. (Flywheel, designing and getting built our own adaptor due to differing bolt pattern {grrr}, needing to get a different starter motor, making sure we get the correct spacer for said starter motor, blah blah blah blah.

We feel this is a milestone as I am sure all home builders have been through before will understand. We were so happy we had to have a trophy cup of tea.

Further developments since our last update is the construction of our scattershield is done in 8mm steel and the chopping of the bottom of the tank.

(thanks evLee for your email, apologies for not replying earlier but I was waiting until we had furthered our action regarding aero issues as posted earlier.)

The base of the car is a flat bottom only until the one third point where it rises on the same angle as the engine (which is on an angle to keep it in the tank shell). The car narrows quite quickly here so any venturi effects are limited anyway unless we build a base plate extending beyond the cars parameters (which GM Ecolakester was playing with).

We thought about this a couple of years back which you can see on the render attached, but have not explored further as we are aiming to build a car that has minimal aero concepts as a base car so we can there have a datum to compare the addition of aero ideas to.

Shall take and post more photos shortly.

Reverend H+


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on May 29, 2006, 11:09:59 AM
Hey congratulations guys :D .  I'll bet you are happy indeed.  Nice rendering Rev.. Do you have any other angles of the car?

What is your final decision on the chute?

Will there be a push bar or will you tow the car to the line?

Anyway it is going to be a beautiful car :!:  :!:  :!: .

c ya, Sum


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Drewfus on May 29, 2006, 05:15:13 PM
Well done guys, great to read about your success. Just out of curiosity, how much longer was the standard g'box?

On a different note, have you considered using the GM blower intake (ideally with the Eaton M90 :wink:  :D ) as the air inlet enters from the rear of the manifold.....

Cheers,

Drewfus :D


Title: Manifold Charms........
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 29, 2006, 11:18:13 PM
Oi!
Ta Sum , we won't be pushing it for a while , one day it might go V8 sans gearbox......it'll need some pushing then.Good to hear from you Drewfus , sorry I didn't get back to you about the B'ville shots ,they are of course great ....it took me about three months just to look at 'em all..The manifold is reversed as you see it there as the throttle body wouldn't fit inside the skin in it's usual orientation....we've got an M90 from a Pontiac ( that's , like , a potato isn't it?) and we had a Holden version paid for off E-Bay .....got dudded , badly . Sadly we won't be getting blown for a while yet........ :roll:

The gearbox is about 200mm(eight inches ) shorter than it was which allowed us to use a tailshaft rather than a boat-drive...there is of course no stress relieving narrow waist on the output shaft anymore so it will be interesting to see what carks it first there . :shock:

...onward salt lake soldiers...........


Title: Re: Manifold Charms........
Post by: Drewfus on May 29, 2006, 11:54:45 PM
Quote from: Dr Goggles
Oi!
Good to hear from you Drewfus , sorry I didn't get back to you about the B'ville shots ,they are of course great ....it took me about three months just to look at 'em all.


You're lucky I didn't send you all the 'others' then from the rest of my trip...

Quote from: Dr Goggles
...onward salt lake soldiers...........


Keep at it, you're doing great...

Cheers,

Drewfus

P.S. My salt coop idea has just recieved a 'lift' as I've gained sponsorship from an engine builder for 1x550hp SBC....can you say YEE HAAA!!!


Title: Re: Manifold Charms........
Post by: Stovebolt on May 30, 2006, 04:12:10 AM
Quote from: Drewfus


You're lucky I didn't send you all the 'others' then from the rest of my trip...


P.S. My salt coop idea has just recieved a 'lift' as I've gained sponsorship from an engine builder for 1x550hp SBC....can you say YEE HAAA!!!


Aren't I waiting on some more of those shots???????  Between the three of you I should have seen some more!!!!!

550 BHP SBC - well you are a turncoat aren't you ;) Good luck to you Andrew


Title: Pusher Man
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 30, 2006, 06:17:59 AM
Quote from: Sumner

Will there be a push bar or will you tow the car to the line?
c ya, Sum


.....at the moment we're still allowed to drive it ( to and from the track)and initially It shouldn't be a problem apart from the limited vision and 30 deg' castor  but I thinks we'll need a dolly because the turning circle will be somewhat ..large

...I have something " on my plate" at the moment which is eating into "tank-time".,...but we'll get there :wink:


Title: Re: Pusher Man
Post by: Sumner on May 30, 2006, 10:35:59 AM
Quote from: Dr Goggles
Quote from: Sumner

Will there be a push bar or will you tow the car to the line?
c ya, Sum


.....at the moment we're still allowed to drive it ( to and from the track)and initially It shouldn't be a problem apart from the limited vision and 30 deg' castor  but I thinks we'll need a dolly because the turning circle will be somewhat ..large



How are you cooling the motor?  I would think "not driving" it to the starting line would be good.  Also at the end of the run "not driving" it back to the pits might be good or even required depending on the cooling, state of tune, etc..

Quote from: Dr Goggles
...I have something " on my plate" at the moment which is eating into "tank-time".,...but we'll get there :wink:


Hope it doesn't take too long to finish "the meal" so you can get back to work and we get some more pictures :D

c ya, Sum


Title: Re: Pusher Man
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 30, 2006, 06:52:33 PM
[quote="SumnerHow are you cooling the motor?  I would think "not driving" it to the starting line would be good.  
c ya, Sum[/quote]

good point Sum'but until we start pushing the "boundaries" with it I'm confidant that it won't be a problem............in an effort to get everything shaken-down and settled before we work out how to maximise the volume of cooling tanks we might use a radiator and thermo fan lying above the gearbox with an extra holding tank ...once we've got a better idea of exactly how much room we've got and where it is we'll be putting our water tanks in but as it is there certainly isn't room for one tank of the volume we'll need....yes , I know we'll need through flow ( I've got the Rev' on my back here) and that's bad but it won't be for long.....Most of our problems are due to our stubborn insistance to keep the tank in it's original dimensions...and funnily enough when they built it they probably weren't thinking about putting a V6, a 6 foot fella and various other large heavy items in it  :lol:  :lol:

Ain't I clean, bad machine
Super cool, super mean
Dealin' good, for The Man.
Superfly, here I stand.
Secret stash, heavy bread,
Baddest bitches in the bed,
I'm your pusherman

........that's verse 2 Curtis Mayfield "Pusherman" ...just for the record :wink:


Title: Incoming
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 10, 2006, 07:19:03 PM
.......yesterday , in search of a bit of inspiration we put the wheels and body on , bolted in the drive train, hoisted the car off the build jig ( which then got chopped up 'cause there ain't a whole lotta room in the shed) and put it on the ground........and Lo' and behold it looks just like the renders and strangely once it sat on the ground it looked smaller AND LOWER ..in fact I reckon it'd fit between Kent Riches' Squirrell's bag and the ground it's that low :lol: ...........

I'll get the Rev' to post some of the shots we took.....it's gonna be a long time before we get the bodywork all schmick but it was just the shot in the arm that I needed because I was getting a bit #$%*&+$%#$@ with it all and to leap ahead a bit and see it like that was great 8)

Never thought it was going to be easy but when I looked at it last night sitting there it really made sense to me the tone of voice that other builders used when we asked them questions about the whole game of building one....that is to say none were discouraging but there was a certain weariness....after three years .......I think I get it.You have to be a little bit mad and very very very determined ......we aren't finished yet but there is no evidence of light at the start of the tunnel and I'm fairly sure we'll see some ahead of us sometime soon ..........see , a little bit mad. :wink:


Title: NOW
Post by: JackD on June 10, 2006, 09:22:40 PM
Now is the time to stop feeding your driver because they tend to grow over time.


Title: Sir Cumference
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 11, 2006, 11:55:23 PM
Quote from: JackD
Now is the time to stop feeding your driver because they tend to grow over time.


If it wasn't for his missus ( or me when we're working on the tank) the Rev' wouldn't eat at all and um , well you've all seen my frame ....I've put on three pounds in the last twenty five years...Even if we did balloon the only thing we're not short on is willing drivers.....I've got eight male nephews alone , they're expendable and one of them is an inch above dwarfism .

Yesterday we put in the fuel tank.As with so many things on this build it was a found object , I kid you not , Graeme our engine man was moving a cupboard at work and when he looked inside there was a tank out of one of those Suzuki Across 250's....the wheel arch in it and the long thin shape of it are just perfect .we took the original filler cap off the tank(it looks just like one of those stickers that ya see on tuner car fuel flaps) and are about to fit that to the upper cowl .....didn't want to waste anything!!!! :wink:

We are as I like to say " running out of excuses" to finish this thing...... 8)


Title: Build photos
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on June 12, 2006, 11:47:11 PM
Yep, the little petrol tank is in the big petrol tank, like a mother and child.

Only the canopy, exhaust system, fire system, cooling system and a car load of body work to go...

oh yeah, and the trailer, mobile workshop, paintjob #1, parachute, penetration lining, etc. etc.

Better stop thinking about what is not done and focus on the next ONE thing!!!

Attached is a render of our current design but still not happy with canopy details. This is a millimeter perfect computer model of our car that we have been building with the vehicle as a test bed of ideas as we have gone.

Not only has it made it easier because of the weird parabolic shape of the tank and us not having all the pieces until recently, it also aided us mentally to keep going because we had a clear image of what we are aiming for.

The photos show that we are on the right track.

Bless.

Rev. H+


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on June 13, 2006, 10:55:55 AM
Wow guys great work :!:  :!:   That is going to be one of the most beautiful lakesters ever made :D .  Hey it was hard for me to sit on those pictures you sent a while back, but somehow I did it 8) .

For the driver to get in and out does the body right in front of the cage lift up with the canopy?

Put some more pictures up when you get a chance,

Sum


Title: Egress
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 13, 2006, 06:40:13 PM
....Oh my Sum thanks!.....the front will flip up in order to get out .The Conundrist is right though! if the driver has a pot gut they won't be able to bend far enough forward to get in or out....as it is a helmet will fit through the top of the cage but in order for it to be legal ( in case you're wondering) the top of the cage will be capped because as it is the helmet protrudes above the bottom line of the hoops when either the Rev or I are in it .The Grump is a bit shorter but heavier than either of us ...so it tends to fit about 80-85 kgs of human(175-185 pounds) whatever shape they come in.....

It was a revelation when we started the design as to how beautiful the original tank looked with just wheels drawn alongside....the Rev' has done a fantastic job ( don't tell him though) and there are hundreds of renders with the slightest variations that change the look totally.....when we started we figured that if it was ugly no-one would give a fig what we did ....now we have to make it fast.............um , anyone here know anything about that? :twisted:


Title: Re: Egress
Post by: Sumner on June 13, 2006, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: Dr Goggles
....Oh my Sum thanks!.....the front will flip up in order to get out .The Conundrist is right though! if the driver has a pot gut they won't be able to bend far enough forward to get in or out.......


On my car I have to slide down forward a little before I can come up with my head and clear the front cage hoop.  No way to just bend at the gut.

Quote from: Dr Goggles
......now we have to make it fast.............


That is for sure, we expect nothing less.  A car that good looking is going to have to go fast  :D ,  this is no car show :wink: .

c ya, Sum


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: dirtydave on June 14, 2006, 06:44:47 AM
Hey guys, things are looking good, and it appears that you have most of the work done, but the last 5% takes as long as the first 95% beware of the nitty gritty, keep up the good work...
looking forward to seeing you guys in 07,
dirty..
coldest day in 17 years here, forecast colder tomorrow, never seen ice on a kangaroo before....cheers.


Title: Ice on the Roo's
Post by: gazza414 on June 14, 2006, 02:36:01 PM
If you were that close to see the ice on the Roo's Dave, I can only assume you were amoungst the sheep warming up???

Must be real cold in dem hills man.


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: generatorshovel on June 15, 2006, 04:56:42 AM
Wonders,,,,,,,,,,,what does salt look like with a covering of frost  :roll:
................................................................Tiny


Title: COLD FEET
Post by: JackD on June 15, 2006, 11:02:57 AM
we have run on the salt when it was snowing in the town of Wendover and the surrounding mountains were covered with white.
We primed the alky motors with propane to start to warm them and had to abort the running when the canopy fogged as soon as the racer was underway.
At Tonopaha, we had to put the timers inside the warm rent a car because while they worked ok the digital display was too cold to work.

You can dress to survive the cold but the heat always sucks. The So Cal tribe had to send the support plane into Las Vegas to get wool sock hats and gloves for everybody. :wink:


Title: Little feat
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 15, 2006, 06:30:37 PM
....can't hear the name Tonopah without thinking of Lowell George's "Willin'"( I've driven every kind of rig that's ever been made...)......there's a story about Stu Hillborn pushing his streamliner over the coals of his overnight fire in order to get it to start on Meth' in Batchelor's book or it might be Genat.......

BTW How come you haven't joined the fray on "Name this Car" Von Dirtington?


Title: D / Q
Post by: JackD on June 15, 2006, 07:16:42 PM
The contest was my idea and so to be fair I had to disqualify myself so as not to unduly influence the decision makers.
You know how sensitive I am to that.  LOL


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: dwarner on June 16, 2006, 08:06:26 AM
Jack,

You crack me up  :lol:

DW


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: dirtydave on June 16, 2006, 06:03:22 PM
didn't know there was a "name this car" will go a lookin, cheers,


Title: due deference
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 16, 2006, 06:13:30 PM
......Yes Jack I think the contest ( who ever thought you had a competitive streak)was your idea but I think the thread was someone elses.... :wink:

thawed your 'roos out yet Dirtwah? and another thing have you organised the Marquee yet for the Victorian diaspora .....word's out that you're hosting a hoedown on the way to AND from the salt next year :lol:  :lol:

Finally I played in a band for long time with a Dan Warner ( try google) , he liked a beer .....or two. :wink:


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: dirtydave on June 16, 2006, 06:52:45 PM
Doors always open this neck of the woods, Might even have a couple of cases of Barossa Red about,,,
cheers I'm to fix burst pipes and frost tolerant solar hot water heaters


Title: I have an idea
Post by: JackD on June 16, 2006, 11:01:10 PM
We could call it "Salt Licks".
 Everyone can sit around and lick their wounds.


Title: inching along....
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 27, 2006, 08:02:38 PM
.....this afternoon I'm back out to the shed and I'll be hooking up the clutch hydraulics in order to see if we're anywhere near a useable set-up....The master is 3/4 the slave is 7/8  however I'm just not sure if we've got enough mechanical advantage on the pedal .Due to the cramped nature of the driving position we've decided to use an unusual pedal arrangement ...they rock ( er sorry ,THEY ROCK!!!!) on a pivot so that they operate by heel pressure and you can rest your foot on them without operating them :? The rod that they pivot on has an arm coming off it vertically( the length of which determines the leverage) which is coupled to the push-rod going into the master cylinder....big deal.

Now I have a question, are there any advantages to using dot 5 fluid? are there disadvantages ......


Title: NOT SO HOT
Post by: JackD on June 27, 2006, 08:13:48 PM
It is unlikely your system will ever see the heat that you might have even in a stocker.
Be sure your foot rest is not bearing on the clutch when you tend to tence up underway. Have an adjacent rest for your foot. Even the smallest feature will give you something else to push on when you have to take a leak and stuff. :wink:


Title: .....joining the dots
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 27, 2006, 10:59:34 PM
Ta Jack
I was wondering more about the differing water absorbtion of dot 3/4 and dot 5...I guess it's really neither here nor there...

As for the resting scenario with the clutch pedal it was that very problem that steered us away from the usual method because with ones knee at 90 deg. it would be v.difficult to avoid loading the clutch between shifts however with the rocker pedal as long as the pressure is on the ball of your foot it won't happen, we're struggling for room for three pedals let alone room for a rest so we might be looking at a hydraulic hand-brake instead of foot operation.......the rocker pedal idea works nicely because with the pitman arm facing back toward us and the tie rods inside the car we needed something to cover them to stop them being fouled  .....conveniently that cover forms a rest that the pedals now pivot on......at the moment it looks like a three year old made it ....we're hoping to get it up to about eight year old standard . :wink:

I'm going out there , right now........


Title: BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER
Post by: JackD on June 27, 2006, 11:16:51 PM
If something works but it is not pretty, that is my favorite.
 If asked, I won't hint that it works but suggest it is just a temporary short cut until the pretty one gets back from polishing.
I have spent more time polishing off questions than polishing parts.
One of the most efficient aero packages I have ever seen is from a really unthought of source.
The true lines are confused to the on looker with a mish mash of stickers that trick the eye .
 The viewer will often dismiss it as junk.
Too bad for them. :wink:


Title: stuck on stickers
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on June 28, 2006, 01:40:36 AM
Your post has caught my eye, Jack.

What exactly is, "One of the most efficient aero packages I have ever seen is from a really unthought of source"?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

Please explain.

Rev.H+


Title: SPEED SECRETS
Post by: JackD on June 28, 2006, 01:58:28 AM
An aero package is used that is the result of some extensive and successful testing.
It's use at Bonneville is on another brand that one would not connect with the brand represented by the streamlining.
Dimensions in excess of those found to be successful will fail in less than ideal conditions that are seldom seen over the distances traveled.
"Good theoretical designs produce only theoretical results."
"It is better to watch first and then think instead of doing all the thinking first yourself and then end up just watching."


Title: Komplete Klutch
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 28, 2006, 04:14:10 AM
He he he....I'm back from the shed and although it doesn't work I know what will......kind of like you said Jack....and very much as so many things on this car have been.....don't sweat the outcome just GET STARTED,each little scratch built device has been the same , we build what we think will work and from there we can see ( if we're lucky) where we want to be rather than wearing out the pencils and our patience only to find that the "ultimate design" is just that and not a functional item at all.

My fears about not having enough mechanical advantage were unfounded..it was ridiculously light but it just didn't move enough fluid to throw the clutch.....I figure going from 3/4 to a 1' item like that in my '64 delivery will nail it...and um, no Rev' no cuts , no burns :shock: .....unbelievable hey?


Title: No burns?
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on June 28, 2006, 04:22:25 AM
I think you burnt your reputation on today's post on the DLRA site...

rH+


Title: GO FIGURE
Post by: JackD on June 28, 2006, 04:43:14 AM
If you can do the math for a bore and stroke to establish an engine size, you can do the math to tell you what the piston size and stroke will do for the clutch. :wink:


Title: aussie tank
Post by: interested bystander on June 28, 2006, 07:59:32 PM
Nothing specific to the subject, but could it be that OZ is out there just somewhere West of Catalina??
 we are all SO tuned in to the same subject- beer, speed and the ladies, that it hasta be!!!


Title: oz beely tank
Post by: interested bystander on June 28, 2006, 08:13:42 PM
I wen t right over Jack Ds post:

He likes things that work but are not pretty.

Your're a Streisand and F 117 fan, Right??


Title: oz beely tank
Post by: interested bystander on June 28, 2006, 08:20:44 PM
I wen t right over Jack Ds post:

He likes things that work but are not pretty.

Your're a Streisand and F 117 fan, Right??


Title: Re: GOOD FIGURE
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 29, 2006, 03:34:58 AM
Quote from: JackD
If you can do the math for a bore and stroke to establish an engine size, you can do the math to tell you what the piston size and stroke will do for the clutch. :wink:


yes however I was worried about the added effect of the effort required ( there are two points here ...like a normal pedal it's the length of the pedestal and the distance of the push rod from the fulcrum point), going to an inch will give me another 12.5% throw , I hope that does it , I've still got adjustment on the pivot point of the throw out lever as well , which will reduce the distance required( slightly)and finally I haven't got right in and worked out whether the slave is completely evacuated at the start of the stroke and thus giving me full travel.......

Hey Rev' I've been looking for that photo of you in the mink coat with the mirrors on and the handle-bar moustache , I know you're gonna tell everyone it was for a fancy-dress party ,but I know better......next you'll be riding a chromed up Harley :wink: .....any more of that silly talk and you'll be chocolates sunshine.Anyway I'd be careful besmirching my reputation because it'll only reflect on you........like , shhhhhhh he must be one too :wink:   :shock:  :wink:

BTW Bystander are saying Bab's is ugly???.....it's a beuatiful hand beaten track nose I reckon :wink:


Title: PERFECTION
Post by: JackD on June 29, 2006, 09:26:05 AM
"It shows ta go ya the Bellytank has not been perfected yet.
When they are, the Chinese will build them cheaper and everybody will have at least one.
LSR is safe for now.
Not enough people have figured how to make enough money yet and completely ruin it for those that choose to do it another way." :wink:


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Bob Drury on June 29, 2006, 06:37:15 PM
What?  There is no money to be made?  What the hell have I mortgaged the house for?  I built my car for fame and fortune, and now you have the balls to tell me there is no money to be made?  Subaru.............


Title: HELPLESS HOPELESS
Post by: JackD on June 29, 2006, 07:13:19 PM
(The following is written in American so the Downunders can't read it.)

It was never presumed anybody from Washington anything could be saved and we just put up with the Oz's enough so they will feel good staying home and that serves to make us feel good. :wink:


Title: Staying home
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on June 29, 2006, 08:02:54 PM
Fine. We don't want to run on your lumpy overcrowded track anyway, mate.

Reverend H.

"The U.S. is a great place to keep all the Americans"


Title: Re: Staying home
Post by: JackD on June 29, 2006, 10:30:09 PM
Quote from: Reverend Hedgash
Fine. We don't want to run on your lumpy overcrowded track anyway, mate.

Reverend H.

"The U.S. is a great place to keep all the Americans"

You got it right.
 You can only buy so many t-shirts.
 When the meet is so large you don't see all the people in a week or more it is too large.
 Other locations are developing their program and the use of the salt will expand as conditions permit.
It had to bottom out for people to get going with other events.
One or two runs a day sucks the big one.
You OZ folks should consider a Maxton type meet in a series to expand your horizon.
You are also in a good position to host FIA and FIM runs on a regulsr basis.


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Bob Drury on June 29, 2006, 10:34:52 PM
Jon, how much to buy a larger star than Dolan?  Its a ego thing.............


Title: Hydrafrolics
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 29, 2006, 10:45:06 PM
Quote from: interested bystander
Nothing specific to the subject, but could it be that OZ is out there just somewhere West of Catalina??
 we are all SO tuned in to the same subject- beer, speed and the ladies, that it hasta be!!!


....let's just say it's a little off the bus route , which isn't necessarily a tragedy as my last few post would indicate I'd struggle to read a timetable......we'll know by the end of the weekend whether I need to go back to school or not :wink: I thought beer had just become a particularly unpopular discussion topic on this forum :twisted:

 ....and Bob , hook or by crook I'll get rich out of this tank thing you mark my words.....crikey! by Jove....huh? no prizemoney??......what? .....If I'd known that I probably would've gone and built some sort of crazy contraption out of discarded aeroplane bits and second-hand car parts and then tried to drag it out to the middle of the desert for some once a year event just to prove to people that I had all my marbles.....watch this space..............


Title: ON SALE NOW
Post by: JackD on June 29, 2006, 10:45:23 PM
Quote from: Bob Drury
Jon, how much to buy a larger star than Dolan?  Its a ego thing.............


How many do you need ?
I can get them for you wholesale.
If you like the red ones, we have a few spots left on the "Walk of Shame" for cheap.
No aceptimos Pesos. :wink:


Title: Maxton Meet
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on June 29, 2006, 10:59:04 PM
Jack

regarding a Maxton type event:

The great thing about having a limited population is that we are not overcrowded to begin with, but the unfortunate thing is we have the same small percentage of volunteers to run the event.

The DLRA has been fantastically run by a small group of party faithfull for its history but for any expansion, especially a Maxton type expansion it really needs to get all the members committing to helping out.

This is under discussion now with the best idea I've heard being to be able to run a vehicle you have to commit some hours to the event running.  I look forward to becoming a better contributor somehow in this respect next year as I have been a bum for the last three years.

Some talk was about separating the bike meet with the cars but that would be sad (because there are some great blokes and great bikes there that I would miss) and problematic. At least if it rains now everyone is affected equally!

I think there is something cool about us all being one group too, instead of a bunch of clubs competing against each other as it means everyone is in it together to make it work. Less politicking too.

A big issue with multiple meets is that Lake Gairdner is a seriously long distance from anywhere with typically a two to three day drive to get there. Travelling out there once a year would be enough for most competitors to handle I am presuming, and then there are issues regarding the State Park and others that also make multiple meets a tad complex.

I hear that Bonneville is looking much better this year for salt conditions which is great for all concerned, for safety and speed.

Why, we just might bringing our belly out in a couple of years if it continues that way...

rev H+


Title: Might?
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 29, 2006, 11:06:38 PM
Will!


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Bob Drury on June 29, 2006, 11:08:39 PM
Rev, I thought all youse guys was convicts...if we come down to race, you wouldn't be playing Dueling Banjos on the old jews harp would you?


Title: squeal like a pig!
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 29, 2006, 11:33:13 PM
ma cuthin he playda bangjo! :shock:


Title: Convicts
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on June 29, 2006, 11:35:51 PM
Bobbet,

The stupid thing the English did was pack up all the interesting people from the UK and send them to live on the world's largest island in the sun, while the rest of them stayed on a cold little rock off the coast of a (now united) Europe. No wonder they can't win at cricket.

If you went to Tasmania you might be in trouble regarding banjoes, a few of those "non city types" there. Think "Deliverence 4: Trouble Down Under". Stars a holidaying Burt Reynolds with his secretary Paris Hilton who gets eaten by the drooling dolts from Launceston.

Dr Goggles' cousin indeed plays a mean version of duelling banjos but he is a Victorian, and Victoria was free settled (with convict labour from other states, like it is now). I am sure he can be coerced to provide a soundtrack to your excursion to Gairdner.

There are other types I'd be more afraid of though. Some members are the ah... how should I say it... outback types unacustomed to civil niceties who would rip your arms off and shove them down your throat if you looked at them funny... Just smile and nod at everyone like they are from Texas and carrying a gun.


rH+


Title: WELCOME ABOARD
Post by: JackD on June 30, 2006, 12:33:06 AM
You are doing a good job in avoiding our mistakes.
When I mention a Maxton type event, I mean just that.
You must have some available runway surface left over from WW2 that is closer to your population.
 The salt is certainly the best and you should always focus on that.
 Smaller meets on a hard surface can be very user friendly and are not as much work as you might think.
 When you divide up the duties you will still have time to race.
 The closer to the population you are will better generate workers that have no desire to race but just be part of the action.
 4 or more race meets can be scheduled without the expense and commitment to a once a year deal with no backup plan.
I think the 1 mile run up to a 132ft. trap is something that could happen all over the world.
If you standardize the rules and procedures you can race the guy in south Africa and England at the same time.
Instant (hands off) timing and the power of the Internet can put common interests together.


(coded note to the Americans)
I just wana kick their butt.


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Bob Drury on June 30, 2006, 11:57:56 AM
Jeez Jack, a post that I can both understand, and makes sense at the same time!  :wink:


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stan Back on June 30, 2006, 12:34:49 PM
Rev --

You could even use the SCTA format with clubs from differen t areas assigned the duties.  I could send you the Giant Conspiracy rules under a different cover.


Title: SEND IN YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS
Post by: JackD on June 30, 2006, 05:55:02 PM
I would be happy to send you all the Geargrinders to help you learn the hard way.
I would send some Rod Riders but the Bail Bond guy really has a fit and will want to send Moose along.
"Racin ain't kind"
"Tradition unhampered by progress is responsible for the wide influence of the British Empire today."


Title: Gittin' Heavy
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 30, 2006, 06:41:17 PM
Cripes.....that tradition thing was deep Jack.....but you're right , you can refer back to the Rev's post on forced migration , it sums up my feelings perfectly.

For those who didn't know the DLRA is a discreet club not an affiliation of smaller clubs.....so we manage to avoid inter-club battles , ours are between the mad and the sane , the young and the old , cars and bikes or the usual GM Vs Ford stuff......simple really.


Title: on we go
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 06, 2006, 07:23:57 AM
Long time no hear.......We've been getting stuff done on the 'tank. This week I finished the gear shift , tidied up a few details on the firewall , built the mount for the fuel tank , The Grump and I built the tightest set of extractors ever and I embarked on the journey of a lifetime , yes , building the water tank.........The dictionary of swear words wouldn't go anywhere near the required....I made it out of 3mm mild sheet, we estimate it'll hold about 60 litres or so( about 13 gallons) and has five horizontal baffles in order to flow top to bottom via the longest possible route.....working on a steel "box" of that volume with any power tool is a somewhat noisy thing to do......I think my neighbors are pooling their cash to hire a hit-man to finish me off as soon as possible.

On another front I made a phone enquiry about a partly finished bellytank with a merlin in it for sale.....turns out it's owned by Lucky Kaiser a long time builder and racer from Queensland who appeared this year with a 750 Trumper in a pencil body but failed to get past the scrutineers for several reasons.......when he gets past 'em it will be a serious contender

later we talk. :wink:


Title: FIT FINISH AND CAPACITY
Post by: JackD on August 06, 2006, 09:12:59 AM
The last water tank that Nolan built was measured to fit the frame in the nose just as tight as could be made.
IT was a beautiful job of fitted and welded aluminum.
It was all straight cut pieces with some folded corners and the rest was welded and fit pretty good.
That evening ,I came over to check on the progress and found the tank was all radius in the panels and really fit the space available.
 I had no idea who and how all that extra work happened , but now it was better than ever.
As we were locking up that night he said "I saw you looking at the tank and you never actually asked about it." What happened, was during the day he fired it up and chuffed a head gasket into the water jacket and the squeeze from 1 jug " PILLOW POOFED" the tank to fit.
It was an unintentional result ,but he silently enjoyed the credit for all the extra work.
 If you were brave enough to ask , he was brave enough to share the truth.
That is really the important part for both sides that needs more work.


Title: Re: WELCOME ABOARD
Post by: hawkwind on August 06, 2006, 03:01:02 PM
Quote from: JackD
You are doing a good job in avoiding our mistakes.
When I mention a Maxton type event, I mean just that.
You must have some available runway surface left over from WW2 that is closer to your population.
 The salt is certainly the best and you should always focus on that.
 Smaller meets on a hard surface can be very user friendly and are not as much work as you might think.
 When you divide up the duties you will still have time to race.
 The closer to the population you are will better generate workers that have no desire to race but just be part of the action.
 4 or more race meets can be scheduled without the expense and commitment to a once a year deal with no backup plan.
I think the 1 mile run up to a 132ft. trap is something that could happen all over the world.
If you standardize the rules and procedures you can race the guy in south Africa and England at the same time.
Instant (hands off) timing and the power of the Internet can put common interests together.


(coded note to the Americans)
I just wana kick their butt.


All is not quiet on a 'maxton. type event ,a decommissioned runway at Evens head northern NSW is maybe going to have a similar event ,but it may be cancelled  only 11 entrants so far and its really not long enough 1.3 mtrs total  that would include stoping , there is another runway being looked at at Tocumwal (murry river ) apprentally its about 3 km's long but a dirt surface ,I will report on suitability soon
Gary


Title: Irish Runway
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on August 06, 2006, 06:58:00 PM
"Only 1.3 metres in total..."

Gary mate I think you may be looking at the track sideways... is it really really wide?

Good to have you back Jack.

Rev.H+


Title: Ya gotta understand
Post by: JackD on August 06, 2006, 07:17:29 PM
1.3 mtrs represents the farthest distance he got before he did a face plant and that is all he can remember. :wink:


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hawkwind on August 07, 2006, 03:56:26 AM
hardy har har , convert 1.3 mtrs to 1.3 km's


Title: Re: FIT FINISH (kind of) AND CAPACITY
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 07, 2006, 09:33:55 AM
Quote from: JackD
" What happened, was during the day he fired it up and chuffed a head gasket into the water jacket and the squeeze from 1 jug " PILLOW POOFED" the tank to fit.
It was an unintentional result ,but he silently enjoyed the credit for all the extra work.If you were brave enough to ask , he was brave enough to share the truth.That is really the important part for both sides that needs more work.


he he he ......he shouldn't have "given over " on that one and you would have saved the story for his funeral as a measure of his meticulous attention to detail..........lets just say that there will be no mistaking our effort for one of a latent genius.......BUT, it will be the biggest thing give or take a percentage point or so that would fit in the spot , we could have made a perfectly symetrical spotlessly tig welded Aluminium tank , but we were busy , um , doing other things so a frankenstein steel one will be just fine.......right now I'm fairly confident when we don't go as fast as we should it will be well down the list of "causes" .....

Great to see you back on deck Jack, given the fact that you've been tied to a stationary machine for a couple of years I'd assume that you'll be concentrating on some less than stationary ones for a while now.....do tell.

Hey Gary , next Speedweek I'll hold the Rev' down and you can belt him one just for being a smarta--- :wink:

This morning Greg W rang and said he'd been talking to Lucky as well.( about his old bike liner).....jeez ,it's Lucky's lonely Landspeed hearts line......The first time I met GW I immediately thought whoa , he knows his onions....and you couldn't meet a nicer more relaxed bloke....something serious will come of all that....you mark my words Mr D.


Title: Global Land Speed
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on August 10, 2006, 10:13:35 PM
Jack, apparently Pixar read your posts talking about the Global Land Speed   events and have got the idea to place "Cars 2" at various land speed sites.

Lightning McQueen and the crew challenge BARF1 to a series of drags around the world.

Attached is a local promo shot showing some local talent from the DLRA!!

Can't wait to see this one.

reverend H+

Photos and news on the real tank to come soon


Title: Tank city
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 31, 2006, 09:27:17 PM
Hi All
last night I picked up the latest aquisition for Jarman-Stewart Racing( er that's me and the Reverend) it's a Spitfire tank that we bought from Hillbilly Jim Pitman in Sydney.........As with the tank we're using for our lakester the comments from the freight guys are always priceless ...." oh , you're here to pick up the submarine /bullet/pod/bomb thingo etc , ...what the h--- are you gonna do with that????".......so you tell 'em , they look at you like you've got " I am completely nuts" written on your forehead ,they laugh and wish you luck.....and I always reply the same ...." I hope we don't need it"..........

This is one small tank.It's seven feet long , steel and would seem to be the same pattern as the P38 tank but smaller , it's steel .We intend to make a mold of it in order to avoid chopping it up .Does anyone have any ideas about a really small bellytank lakester ....like for instance are we allowed to use handlebars instead of a steering wheel and pedals???? it would save a lot of room up front and may simplify things a bit......I'm thinking bike motor, chain drive , any pointers on those who've gone this route before would be appreciated......might even end up with  a version of the Sum' rear end.........hit me. :wink:


Title: Tank city
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 31, 2006, 09:27:37 PM
Hi All
last night I picked up the latest aquisition for Jarman-Stewart Racing( er that's me and the Reverend) it's a Spitfire tank that we bought from Hillbilly Jim Pitman in Sydney.........As with the tank we're using for our lakester the comments from the freight guys are always priceless ...." oh , you're here to pick up the submarine /bullet/pod/bomb thingo etc , ...what the h--- are you gonna do with that????".......so you tell 'em , they look at you like you've got " I am completely nuts" written on your forehead ,they laugh and wish you luck.....and I always reply the same ...." I hope we don't need it"..........

This is one small tank.It's seven feet long , steel and would seem to be the same pattern as the P38 tank but smaller , it's steel .We intend to make a mold of it in order to avoid chopping it up .Does anyone have any ideas about a really small bellytank lakester ....like for instance are we allowed to use handlebars instead of a steering wheel and pedals???? it would save a lot of room up front and may simplify things a bit......I'm thinking bike motor, chain drive , any pointers on those who've gone this route before would be appreciated......might even end up with  a version of the Sum' rear end.........hit me. :wink:


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: DON NOBLE on September 01, 2006, 01:29:16 AM
better idea  :? make it into an esky , now that be cool . Less work , more refreshing .


Title: Re: Tank city
Post by: Sumner on September 01, 2006, 11:35:32 AM
Quote from: Dr Goggles
Hi All
last ......might even end up with  a version of the Sum' rear end.........hit me. :wink:


It will be interesting to see what you guys do with that tank.  

If you decide to do a rear similar to what I did get hold of me as I would do a couple things different and will probably change it at some point in the future.

You guys are 6 months out from running.  How are you doing time wise???  I'm 11 months out for me and worried :cry: .

c ya, Sum


Title: Time is tight!!!
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 03, 2006, 05:23:31 AM
Seven months, thanks for reminding me!!....We had one of those backwards days today....I had a look at the tailpipe and what had been tacked and fitting nicely last week was somehow kind of crooked and not fitting up too well after welding(does heat distort things???? :roll: )......it took longer to dick around with a few flanges and stuff than it did to make it in the first place , great.We're still fiddling with bracing in the rear frame too . We're also dealing with issues with hoisting the motor as stuff is crammed in around it we need to work out the obvious stuff like what order things are removed.....not rocket science but with the room we've got it makes each successive job a little longer...I reckon by the time we're running I'll have a name for every nut and bolt on the thing.We will be there , but it's gonna be tight :wink:


Title: On the couch
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 03, 2006, 05:32:39 AM
Quote from: Sumner

If you decide to do a rear similar to what I did get hold of me as I would do a couple things different and will probably change it at some point in the future.c ya, Sum


building these things is a great metaphor for life......some stuff you would do differently, some stuff you wish you'd done better , some stuff you don't know why you perservered with or have since gone after lots of time and money, some bits you still can't fathom and you just put down to good luck or divine intervention and some other bits that you know were right although you struggled to find people who agreed with you.

 :shock:


Title: KIT CAR ?
Post by: JackD on September 03, 2006, 05:55:21 AM
I trust you will have all this worked out before you release the kit.  LOL


Title: Here Kitty Kitty
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 04, 2006, 07:28:39 PM
........they'll be making them in China before we get our brochures back from the printers and by the time the last canape is eaten at the "media launch" there will be rumours of " reliability problems and safety concerns".....the business goes broke after three pre-sales .Twenty years later the smart bastard Jack someone who'd bought the first three units sells them as mint set on E-bay and makes a motza , just another curio.

Anyway, on Sunday whilst staring at our new toy the Spitfire tank the Rev' says " you know I reckon we could cast our screen off that"....yesterday we dug a little deeper.The top side blunt end is unbelievably close to the dimensions of the screen in the render you see above so it looks like we'll be cleaning it up to take a mold.....I mean how could we not? So it looks like the outside profile of the car will indeed be made solely of bellytank .........pedants.

I guess I'll be spending some time looking at your segment on how to slump perspex Sum'.

Git garn. :D


Title: Ploddin' along
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 30, 2006, 05:51:11 PM
Yesterday we made a start on fixing the body to the frame .Hand made punch and dolly to form countersinks in the aluminium ....little steel tags hanging off the mid-line bar ...and a whole lot more measuring and chin rubbing........after about six hours we had a system and we had four( of a probable hundred) countersunk machine threads in place ( the right place).....it should get quicker from here.......this is the " housekeeping" part of the build and to be honest it's not the bit I relish. :x


Title: Belly tank update
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 20, 2006, 01:08:45 PM
It's been a while since the last update. Not that we have been slack just the opposite. So here is a list of what's been done:

Seat belted into shape
Body bits attached
water tank built
exhaust and headers made
front roll cage plated in to stop penetration to cabin in accident
petrol tank added
megasquirt purchased
rear framing completed
floor plates welded in
pedals put in
gear linkage working

woohoo.

But! I am away at the moment but back at christmas for a big build holiday. Shall try and update more often!

Reverend Hedgash
Reporting from the Middle East.


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on November 21, 2006, 12:38:00 AM
Looking good guys - what's the fuel tank out of or is it built to suit - it looks quite unusual


Title: Fuel tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 21, 2006, 01:00:06 AM
Hey Lynchy,

It is a fuel tank from a motorbike which has the fuel tank under the seat as its real fuel tank is a helmet store.

Colonel Grump, our engine man, found it in his cupboard. So many items for this car have been given to us by providence.

This is how we perceive hot rodding should be, the clever re-assembly of parts from other cars and things combined with some home made fabrication.

Anyone can go to the So-Cal catalog and order a Lego hot rod but what is that? And expensive uncreative kit car.

We are proud to say the only new items in our car are basically to do with safety; the Landspeeds, the seatbelts, the clothing, the brakes cylinders and the fire suppression system. The rest we have made, scrounged or bought second hand. (Bless ebay!)

Good to see the Shaguar on the build site. Some good advice already rolling in from those in the know.

We will have to race each other to finish.

Speak soon,

Rev.H+


Title: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on November 21, 2006, 02:59:17 AM
Rev

Yes - Big Gaz is determined to get the car down down to the salt next year despite the battering his credit card will take.... It is becoming his new religion - since you are a Reverend maybe you could give him the blessing of the gods of speed? Maybe you could also intro your crew, I was aware of the good Dr and his new girlfriend Nurse Ratchet and there were also photo's of the Lady Hedgash in some previous postings, hadn't heard of Colonel Grump before though. Our team currently comprises of Big Gaz and myself (from afar). It's been funny over the last few years, I would have expected all of our mates to want to come down to the lake for the horsepower party but I guess life catches up and the wheels fall off.

I agree with what you say regarding hot rodding and will willingly accept a fire system from anyone that wants to give us one ;-) or high presure fuel pumps or injectors or computer .......

Yes - good feedback from Sumner - I've been reading up on Hooleys Stude and there are a lot of similarities that we can take on board. The NASCAR roof flap was an idea that we had considered upon seeing Chris' NASCAR Thunderbird down at Gairdner this year... the bellypan is something we've discussed and will implement when time allows so Sumner will be pounded by email for sure.

Can't wait till March!!


Title: distance
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 21, 2006, 03:11:11 AM
Lynchy,

I shall say a race prayer for both of our teams.

I am going to be in Bahrain on Friday and Saturday watching the AussieV8 supercars. Should be pretty cool. It looks a fantastic racetrack on TV.

There is a drag strip in Um al Qwaiin too I might check out too.

It's only just over an hours flight from where I'm working so why wouldnya?

That's fine by your mates not coming. We only want the die hards. The riff raff can go to Summernats in Canberra with the rest of the bogans and their chicks, keep the salt pure....

Amen

Reverend Hedgash
Speed Deacon


Title: Megasquirt
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on December 05, 2006, 02:21:30 AM
Started building the Megasquirt engine management system.

The hardest thing is wading through the sea of information to figure out what is appropriate for us. Assembly is remarkably easy thus far with good instructions from the site.

(For those who want to know: We have decided to go the MS1 chip with the v3.0 board running MSnE for our Commodore V6 VN.)

The photo is the Megastim component which acts as a proxy engine so you can test the Megasquirt has been assembled correctly and then practice with the tuning software. It has 5 LED's which represent various functions:

    * Injector #1 - lights when the first injector bank is grounded [injectors firing].

    * Injector #2 - lights when the second injector bank is grounded [injectors firing].

    * Fuel Pump - lights when the fuel pump relay is grounded.

    * FIdle - lights when the Fast Idle solenoid is activated.

    * Ignition - lights when the ignition circuit of MS2 fires

Step by step we are getting there. Dr Goggoles informs me last weekend he completed the canopy hinge and it works pretty well.

Rev. H+



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 05, 2006, 11:02:58 AM
Neat, you are going to have to bring me up to speed on it later :-).  You doing this work "out of country" in your hotel room??

Tell the Doc hi,

Sum


Title: O.S.
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on December 05, 2006, 12:08:05 PM
Yep.
I'm now in Bur Dubai on the Khor Dubai in the city of Dubai in the Emirate of the same name.

Great place, friendly people, but not that imaginative when naming things.

Just like the electrowhatsit.

Hope the retirement is treating you well.

rev.h+


Title: Re: O.S.
Post by: Drewfus on December 05, 2006, 07:25:48 PM
Yep.
I'm now in Bur Dubai on the Khor Dubai in the city of Dubai in the Emirate of the same name.

Great place, friendly people, but not that imaginative when naming things.

Just like the electrowhatsit.

Is that like the whos-i-whats-a?

Trust all is well, been busy, email me with some updates dude,

Drewfus


Title: 300hp@6500
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 09, 2006, 06:33:30 PM
. Dr Goggoles informs me last weekend he completed the canopy hinge and it works pretty well.

Rev. H+

Yeah , what he said :mrgreen:........Tiz true what he sayeth......... The flip front flips up...not much else at the moment but true to the Right Reverends design it works .Right now It's a quarter past Ten on a Sunday which means it's "Tank Day" however it is 37 degrees Celcius and our state Victoria is on fire in a pretty serious fashion , visibilty was down to a quarter mile in the city yesterday , 100 miles from the nearest fire.

This week I am off to pick up a "large component" for a late model passenger vehicle designed by one of the larger worldwide manufacturers .Through an astonishing alignment of good luck ,good fortune and table manners it was found to have our name on it and thus to be unusable for it's designated purpose ,we have an inkling that we might be able to squeeze it into a little project of ours.......have I said too much Rev'?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on December 14, 2006, 07:15:53 AM
No, not too much but it implies that the large component was stolen which I would like to catagorically state that it was not.

I have completed sassembling the Megasquirt, took about 12 hours over various nights. Haven't started practicing tuning yet but looks good to go.

Also may have our canopy problem sussed. Have found two ex Macchi jet trainer canopies for sale (for charity no less!) at $100 each. Hope they fit! (Anyone know the best way to polish out scratches?)

Reverend Hedgash  :evil:
The farther faster Father


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on December 14, 2006, 07:28:54 AM
You guys mention 3 items of good luck served you.
Well I can't imagine anything more than the first 2.
Plastic polish is a requirement for anybody with their own plane and there is some really good stuff out there.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank - Macchi jet trainer canopies
Post by: roygoodwin on December 14, 2006, 02:18:19 PM
"Also may have our canopy problem sussed. Have found two ex Macchi jet trainer canopies for sale (for charity no less!) at $100 each. Hope they fit! (Anyone know the best way to polish out scratches?)"

Are the canopies  acrylic (plexiglass is one brand name for the material ) or polycarbonate (lexan is one brand name for the material ) ?  You can use progressively finer sandpaper followed by buffing compound to remove the scratches.  You should get some scrap material & experiment with that first.  Some buffing compounds *might* react unfavorably with the plastic. 

You need to be careful if the scratch is fairly deep, like if you can catch a fingernail in it.  Because by the time you get the scratch out, you might have a bifocal canopy.  The deeper the scratch the larger area you'd need to san & buff to minimize the distortion.

Some aircraft windshields are multi-layer & have layers of glass, plastic, & sometimes tempered glass.  IF the canopies are like that, you're probably out of luck, especially if the outer (scratched ) layer is glass, & almost certainly if it's tempered glass.  The glass would take a LOT LONGER time to get a scratch out than plastic, and the tempered glass might just let go.  Tempered glass doesn't like to have much if any machining done to it after it's installed. 

FWIW I used to be in the glass & mirror business and have dealt with acrylic, polycarbonate, glass & tempered glass.

HTH

roy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Greyboy on December 21, 2006, 09:01:14 AM
My 2 cents .. Modelers, fabricators and restorers of all kinds have used a product called Novus with great success; it comes in three grades, #3 for heavy scratches, #2 or  light scratches. and #1 for the final polish. Works on plastics and polycarbonates.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 25, 2006, 11:06:23 PM
Sandshoes Hairy Crutch Greyboy , that was just the info we needed.I went and got the canopies this morning....also there was a Mirage ( hey , I like those tanks!!!) a Vampire ( them's real cute tanks ya got there!!! :wink:) and the remains of a P38( like a screwed up ball of Alfoil) dragged out of the jungle in New Guinea , I didn't get to see the Sea Fury in the hangar ( we've got one o' them anyway)...............Apparently they have some fabricating savant who Tigs paper thin Aluminium ( NB sp.)sheet in his sleep and is busy building everything they need , they reckon he has done some resto bits for some Lightning stateside replacing the "bladder tanks"(????) and building many parts straight of the draughts....

thanks again GB



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Greyboy on December 27, 2006, 11:15:19 PM

Congratulations=canopy acquisition. I hope your right arms are Schwarzenegger, or your lefts if your lefties .. lol


Title: Cheese welding
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 06, 2007, 05:44:58 PM
.....doing nine days straight on the tank ....yesterday we plumbed the cooling system finally ....although the rudiments have been sitting around for ages there were certain little "in-betweenies" that needed to be sorted out ....it's a bit like watching moluscs on a rock . Last week we chopped the top off the inlet manifold and moved the throttle body to a downdraft position .....Argon , a mini sand-blaster and a dedicated torch for Al wire in my Mig and it was a cinch( Mill?? who needs a mill when you've got this handy angle-grinder and a body file :wink:)....it was also useful to alter the neck of the thermostat housing to point straight up .Likewise the sand blaster has been critical when welding the bodywork as it's only 2mm .

We've chopped up one of the canopies ...it's very close to what we want but not perfect.Any suggestions on making slight bends to the edges???...it's 3/8 thick...um yeah :-o


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Greyboy on January 07, 2007, 05:42:57 AM
If I understand you right, you can make small bends on an edge by c-clamping it between 2 pieces of wood and evenly heating the polycarbonite across the entire region that will need to take the bend. Attach a couple of stick handles to the wood while you're at it to make the bending easier.

Pass a heat gun (not a blow dryer) back and forth the area until it is heated enough, wear gloves and test on a scrap piece first by doing a test bend of an identical arc. We're trying to avoid stress lines and bubbles forming both of which are irreversable. Also, something like thick felt might be good to line the inside surfaces of the clamping bars.

That canopy is probably polycarbonate, although I could find no info on the Maachi Trainer itself...anyway you said you had two of them right?

Click pic to enlarge

(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5908/perspex3vk7.th.jpg) (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=perspex3vk7.jpg)

Grey

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (http://imageshack.us)


Title: dine nays straight
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 14, 2007, 07:49:06 AM
...just finished a bit of a " lock in ' on the tank and we've got most of the body sorted out ,  the screen is roughed , the exact method of mounting it , the upper nose body panel,and the superstructure that it all hinges on are still a little "fluid" but it's a lot closer than it was , um , nine days ago.An old friend dropped in while we were at the screen , he 's in the forces and used to be a Blackhawk mechanic...watched us muck around for an hour discussing how we'd join the pieces of screen with these strips of Al , before telling us ...... "how it was done" ...we were on the right track , thankfully.The top cowl is welded to the body and it has been re-cut as the " bonnet" and tail sections....We've finished the tub by welding a 3mm floor of Al as a skin.We had to add about 50mm (2") down one side because as the tank is a wing-tip fit it wasn't entirely symetrical along what we wanted to use as the floor line , it looks pretty scummy ( the welding) but it all gets ground , bashed , bondo'd and painted in the end I guess .

Some dill got sand in all sorts of places that has made our engine man most unhappy with said wielder of sand-blaster....like everywhere dude!!! :oops:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 14, 2007, 11:44:53 AM
Sounds good Doc., do we get to see any pictures???

Is the Rev. helping or still playing in the Middle East :wink:?

And I hate to ask this as I know how many times I get asked the question myself :cry:, but does it look like you can make it by the 1st of March???

Good luck and c ya,

Sum


Title: Back In Town
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 14, 2007, 03:36:56 PM
The Rev is back and in high gear .The answer is no it doesn't "look" like we'll make but I think we will...if that makes any sense.I can see us rolling up to the start line at about 2pm Friday just as Cled starts packing up the caravan ....." oh , sorry guys that was the last run ......there's always next year" :cry:



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on January 16, 2007, 01:17:44 AM
S'pose I'd better get your spray guns back to your place where they belong. What kind of paint are you thinking of using?
Is Acrylic faster than Enamel?

PJQ
Velocity Science Laboratories



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 21, 2007, 10:01:52 PM
I've got some cans of ten year old Pink Primer that my dad used to do the gutters in which might just make an appearance...

Yes Sum, I made it back from O.S. safe and sound.

So much to do and so little time... I did a list last night and it is feasible to get it running by March... but now the road to the lake has been washed away!!! Surrounded by bushfires one minute, drowning the next.

If the weather doesn't get you, then the stingrays, crocodiles, snakes, spiders, jellyfish, sharks, drop bears will.

Rush time.

Rev. H+


Title: hup hup hup
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 25, 2007, 05:24:11 PM
Today is "Australia Day"....yes , a holiday and yes that means we're back on the tank......who'd a thunk it , crikey ! will it ever be done??? We'll be framing the canopy as we're now happy with the shape and alignment , attaching it to the bodywork still needs a little consideration but it's mostly sorted.As for paint , the way it's going at the moment I'll be painting it on the trailer , on the way there.....

farewell fast friends , I got stuff to do..............


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 27, 2007, 06:25:14 PM
We're acting as if the race is on and we're going flat out to get the tank up and running....I'll finish the frame paint tonight while today we're working on the flip front getting the screen attached to the skin and sorting the catches for same.Picked up a car yesterday that we'll gut for the motor  as the 2 V6's that we have are the early version and I'm not convinced that a crankshaft adaptor that I had made up is properly balanced , in a curio the early versions of this motor had a different crank in the auto and manual versions , the one I got yesterday has a bigger( eight bolt) crank boss that fits the flex plate OR the flywheel , I drove it yesterday , it'll do for licensing which is all we'll be up for this year.The new variable valve timing motor that we got will be kept til next year , we will run it stock , unmolested as it has about 320 hp and will get close to 7000rpm, the older versions will be built and probably run forced induction in fuel class.

The Rev is here , see ya :wink:


Title: Belly Tank canopy photos
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 29, 2007, 10:15:21 PM
OK, now it is starting to get serious.

Our canopy has been cut and folded in. Yeah we probably should have heated it as everyone said but it is a half inch thick our test with a heat gun yellowed it before it got enough heat into it to bend and we running against time to build something to bend it.

We are happy with the result anyway as we have made a suitable face with a suitable attitude for the car which was the one design element missing from the rendered designs.

The whole canopy hinges from the nose.

Spent a couple of hours with the Lady Hedgash on the couch last night polishing the scratches out of the canopy in front of Top Gear. Going successfully but the couch is getting a bit messy.

Reverend H+


Title: Belly Tank photos
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 29, 2007, 10:18:05 PM
Dr Goggles aluminium skills are coming through with the body coming together nicely.

We have also put side windows in to assist vision when turning into pits, etc. These we have based on chopped hot rod style windows and will be a piece of curved lexan screwed in.

Firewall has been completed to the body edge and have clad the top of the rollcage in steel to protect from intrusion there.

Our seat is also attached and the back is louvred. coooooooool.

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hitz on January 30, 2007, 11:55:58 PM
Rev, Dr,

 Cool, Cool, Cool! Looks like you might make it this March. All the luck in the world to you both. Just a trip down the salt will make it all worth well.
 
  Harv


Title: frame and bottom of car
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 31, 2007, 06:40:09 PM
Thanks Harv,

We have taken the step to undercoat the frame while everything was out so we didn't have to do it later and we can just assemble, assemble, assemble.

In these photos you can see the 5mm steel base which protects the bottom, helps brace the car, is a form of natural ballast (we have followed advice to make things bigger and heavier than necessary) and gives a flat surface for the aluminium flat bottom of the tank to fix too.

The plate wrapping up around the sides is the bottom half of our scattershield built in as a brace.

As per discussions elsewhere on this topic we have chosen to have the car 50mm from the ground at the front (to maximise driver compartment) then at the 1/3 point the base gently slopes up to cater for the increasing boundary layer size.

You can also see the front framing of the canopy in open position. It still needs a bit more bracing but you get the idea. Greyboy, I understand your Schwarzenagger statement now, the canopy is indeed heavy. Might whack a couple of hatch gas struts onto it...

The frame is going to be Golden Yellow in colour (Dr Go is spraying it this week) because it is good to find dropped screws and things,and yellow looks good on the salt.

rH+



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on January 31, 2007, 06:41:17 PM
<<  pic of Dr. Goggs peering through the side window >>

Looks like Mr. Ramjet needs a Proton Energy pill.


Regs,
PJQ
Velcoity Science Laboratories



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on January 31, 2007, 11:16:23 PM
 :-)Great choice on the frame components---RED for RACE :-D


Title: Rosso il tempero
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 05, 2007, 05:55:16 AM
the red was oxide primer and it has quickly been buried in equipment yellow.....we're hard at it , but we don't seem to be getting there.......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Greyboy on February 05, 2007, 08:37:53 AM
 8-) That's what sunglasses are for man!  8-)

Carry on!


Title: Belly Tank progress
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 05, 2007, 05:58:08 PM
Yes the feeling is slow motion but progress is being made.

We have been struggling with the canopy for the past few weekends and most of the work is invisible. It is where all the body pieces meet, on a hinge no less, and so adjusting everything to get just right for that correct seamline has been a real process! You think today this bit will be done, but no, you spend all day working on gettiing another bit right for the canopy to be right, and although a step closer you don't feel like it.

But it is all tightening up and when done we wont know what hit us. It will be a closed body for the first time soon, and the jobs, though many will be small ones.

Brake and clutch lines have been put in, the dash piece made, petrol out put in, hubs put back on, seat smoothed... I write this list primarily to make Dr Go and myself feel better...

My hands are swollen and covered in cuts. It is a good feeling. It is still doable for this year.

Reverend Hedgash



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 05, 2007, 06:41:00 PM
Get a box of cheap deal examination gloves and save your hands for important stuff.
You know the cuts won't heal otherwise and taking a cut on the hand to the salt will make you grumpy.
What better accessory to get a firm grip on a beverage also. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 08, 2007, 11:52:58 PM
KEEP going guys---I am glad you are planning on doing it this year----------firing on the salt---grate  fun


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 18, 2007, 10:33:54 PM
Good Safety Tip:

When its over 100 degrees F and you are only wearing shorts and a T-shirt in a tin shed sweating profusely... do NOT do a goodly amount of sand blasting unless you want to look and feel like a sand castle.


Canopy clips in, engine with ported heads in, loom attached (mostly), canopy latch established, steering wheel with home made quick release made, battery located, final piece of body work welded on, photos coming.

rev H+
winner Mont st Michelle lookalike contest


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 18, 2007, 10:54:29 PM
You need one of my room fans with the drip feeder from the melt off at the bottom of a chilly bin.
Your problem with that is I won't give it to you and you will have to make your own from stuff you likely already have.. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on February 18, 2007, 10:56:24 PM
Good Safety Tip:

When its over 100 degrees F and you are only wearing shorts and a T-shirt in a tin shed sweating profusely... do NOT do a goodly amount of sand blasting unless you want to look and feel like a sand castle.


Canopy clips in, engine with ported heads in, loom attached (mostly), canopy latch established, steering wheel with home made quick release made, battery located, final piece of body work welded on, photos coming.

rev H+
winner Mont st Michelle lookalike contest

Good progress!!! Wish I was there to see it run.  Good luck and have fun and leave the "no cloths" to "animal"  :evil:.

c ya,

Sum


Title: these things are sent to try us
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 02, 2007, 11:55:04 PM
.........mixed emotions about the cancellation , we spent a lot of dough to get stuff sorted in time , it meant we did it rather than sit around waiting till we could "afford it "......a lot of that stuff will now be junked in favour of the best solution( hey ,it's all a compromise)and we will move on .

One of the more trying aspects is that we will have had the " sponsor motor" ( read; brand new fly by wire electronic vari-cam )sitting around for eighteen months by next year , we want to run it stock because it's "cutting edge " and would be just like the one in the road cars........all the work we've put into the earlier V6's we have may be in vain now .That's the difficult thing about doing this downunder , one shot a year.I've complained enough.

Calls are starting to come in from those on the road ,on their way back. The Rev' said about one of our mates who runs an RX7 and turned back last year when he heard there was water on the track and then didn't hear that it WAS going ahead until way too late that it would be hard to imagine the way he feels , he then said , " I don't think there'd be any swearing or breaking things but I think the card house inside him just fell down"..........anyone for cribbage??


Title: Belly Tank Photos
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 06, 2007, 02:49:58 AM
There is an element of the Odd Couple in this racing team where I can be the Felix Unger of angle grinding to Dr G's Klugmann just grabbing it and chopping it in half.

When it comes to tidiness the roles are relatively reversed.

Heat, small shed, running out of time, not enough money and power tools. 

It all could have ended up on as a horror movie on the 6 thirty news. But no. We survived the difference in personalities (there were some who feared the worst) and through it all, with guts and determination completed the car!!!!* It's a Dodge pity that the lake was not up to the task.

The canopy was a major and tricky task and it took forever. We are mighty proud of it though and works a treat. The handle is from an HQ holden.

The engine was put in and Colonel Grump successfully reloomed the thing. It started but had petrol pump problems which lead to a last minute purchase of another pump. Still to be fully sorted. Photo is of a Dr Goggles with fingers crossed on the first starting.

Rev. H+

(*well, enough to take to the salt for a shake down...)


Title: Photos 2
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 06, 2007, 02:55:49 AM
We did the one of the fastest bog and paint jobs on the planet. 2 hours from bow to wow!.

We based the side window on the old chopped coupes. Gives a good expression to the car and is great for vision for turning in the pits. It feels more like a Citroen DS "cathedral of Glass" inside than a lakester.

rH+


Title: Photos 3
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 06, 2007, 03:01:57 AM
We are very happy with the lines of the car now clearly roughed out. We now can spend the year improving how things go together, correcting details, maker more faster, more safer, more beautiful.

And build a trailer. and fix up the truck. Sheesh I've got a list so long here in my hand that there aren't enough weekends to next year's race already!!!

The chap with the beard in the shot is Vaughn. A local who accidentally visited one day and has been helping ever since. Very handy on the tools. Thanks Vaughn!

Under the pump already, Reverend H+



Title: Quick change steering
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 06, 2007, 03:14:48 AM
Dr G and I spent a great design twenty minutes thinking, "hmmmmm. How can we do a quick release steering hub on the cheap with the stuff we've got and still work well?"

Different ideas came and went, each better than the other until we hit it. Telescoping steel square angle with a spring loaded pull clip on a chain.

The ideas also went from complex to simple and now you look at it and go, "of course! That's easy!"

We like to think that the whole car seems to have this quality. From its driving seat made of wheel arches, to its $20 shifter from a 4 speed drive gemini.

We do get that reaction from visitors... initially. Then they start looking at the thing and they go kind of quiet. For everywhere you look it is this weird effort. Everywhere. It has been a long three and a half years.

Rev. H+


Title: Thank you to our sponsor
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 06, 2007, 03:30:55 AM
Over the past three years people have been great in coming forward to assist in many ways who just say, "I like the sound of your project, we would love to help."

One such person is Graham from ColdFire Australia (http://www.coldfireaustralia.com.au/) who from the onset of our approach two years ago was extremely positive in providing information and said he would help us with the fire system simply because he liked the project (he is an ex stockcar racer which doesn't hurt!).

Last week he was more than true to his word when he came to visit us and help with the installation of the ColdFire fire suppression system. He is the only licensed dealer in Australia for this product and we are most grateful to him and his generosity in not only supplying our system, but fire extinguishers for the crew and clear Motormax radiator coolant for the water tank. Wow.

The stuff is non toxic, and environmentally sound for use on the salt (clear).

I don't believe in forums being product sales sites but feel compelled!

thanks Graham,

Reverend Hedgash
Jarman Stewart Racing


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: t russell on March 06, 2007, 05:32:04 AM
Dodge nice ride.I have been following your build. Hope the weather is on your side next year
terry


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on March 06, 2007, 06:33:11 AM
On behalf of everybody that is working to make that kind of a dream happen, THANK YOU.
Many people will express all kinds of feelings about not being able to go this year, but as far as I am concerned you have arrived. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on March 06, 2007, 09:20:35 AM
Great work guys  :-) and you should be very proud of yourselves.

So sorry about the weather deal this year  :cry:,  but like you said you still have lots you want to do and next year will be here soon.  I see no way I can be ready this year either if I'm realistic, but I'm not discouraged as I'll make it to the salt with a car of my own someday.  You guys have been an inspiration, thanks,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on March 06, 2007, 06:38:33 PM
 :-o

Guys---way to GO---that Thing just looks so "BITCHIN"  your expressions an body language
 just says it ALL!!!!!  congratulations!!!!!!!!!---hell you guys may inspire me to build another car!~~~~~~~


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: John Nimphius on March 07, 2007, 01:25:34 AM
Your dedication and perseverance should be an inspiration to those of us that are making excuses for why we don't get it done. Thanks!

John N


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 08, 2007, 03:48:48 AM
Thanks all for the kind words , It means a lot , a real lot.The Rev and I have spent a fair bit of time on this forum over the last few years and we have learnt a great deal from it as well as been entertained .What we have learnt from watching discussion and offering up our ideas for debate has influenced the design of our car ( if it doesn't go fast it's all your fault!!! :-D) and for that we owe a thank you to Jon for running the site ,and the interest and time of all the regular and experienced contributors who have been an inspiration as well as valuable help with build issues .

It'll get better. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: dwarner on March 08, 2007, 09:03:57 AM
The go fast part is NOT our fault.

Les Leggitt has said in the past ..."I can give you parameters to build your race car, I can't legislate your tuneup."

DW


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Drewfus on March 08, 2007, 08:52:58 PM
Great to see the progress, even if the frustration is getting to you, your enthusiasm is inspiring.

The next 12 months will allow you to tidy house, fine tune, and make the experience more pleasurable....simple details, but important.

Heads up guys,

Drewfus


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: stimie on March 19, 2007, 01:47:59 PM
i am planing on building a tanker i am using a fiberglass p38 body what i would like to know is how did you build your frame any help you can give i would be gratefull thanks mark 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on March 19, 2007, 10:00:08 PM
Had the privilege of squeezing into the tank the other day to make some vrrm-vrrm noises.
With the canopy closed it feels fast just sitting on stands in the shed. Kinda stirs the blood...
Not many cars do that any more - so old - reckon it's the sign of a top class build (the car, not me).



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 24, 2007, 05:30:17 PM
i am planing on building a tanker i am using a fiberglass p38 body what i would like to know is how did you build your frame any help you can give i would be gratefull thanks mark  

The design was done on a 3d cad program ,  we wanted to keep the Canberra tank in it's original dimensions so the job was to make the frame as "big" as possible in order to give us as much room as poss'.....Even so there were a lot of "on the ground" changes once we started building it. All the advice we got from other owner builders was make it heavy , use heavy plate , heavy pipe and certainly don't pay for anything that is expensive because it is lightweight :roll: Wayne Mumford ( the Mumford and Mack "Wazavudu) used large discs of cardboard in order to "size" the longitudinal members .We built a 1;1 dummy out of 1 inch steel tube , we built another from cardboard tube that you get from fabric rolls( find a bunch of them they're very handy).....don't go out and buy any notching machines as a cut off saw and various hand tools will do ....another handy thing I've borrowed is a hand held sandblaster (excellent for wrecking engines ,  :oops:) which will make sure your welds are good.

If I was you I'd track down as many P38 belly-tankers as you can, take photos and underneath each one I'd write what the owner would do differently if they had their time again.....there-in may be your design ......oh yeah and start saving money and living like a monk.PM me for more stuff if you'd like :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Harold Bettes on March 24, 2007, 10:45:01 PM
Hi Guys,

I have been very distracted from posting lately, but wanted to say to you that you have done an outstanding job and appreciate that you have shared it with all of us. :wink:

Sorry that the great salt was not available for you this time around, but you will be super prepared next one. :-)

BTW - Thanx for your contributions in other arenas as well. 8-)

Regards from the high country in the USA,
HB2


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 25, 2007, 11:07:17 PM
Stimie,

as Dr.G said it was a lot of mock ups that got us to where we are.

I am pretty good at thinking in 3D but the shape of the belly tank really is a trick. No matter which way you draw it there is always some plane disappearing in a way that is hard to conceptualise.

Having a 3d CAD model certainly helped but at the end of the day it was as every other car builder has done, placing pieces in roughly the right position and sitting in it with your helmet on and making engine noises.

We made a 1:10 model with a vac formed shell which we could quickly chop change and reweld some rod steel to sort out a cage that was reasonably efficient. This like the Cad model helped try out some options prior to commiting to big stuff but it was hard to get your head around the scale of the thing.

The cardboard and rough 1" steel 1:1 phase was probably the most educational. You could get in it. We could place the bits we had on it in roughly the right position. We painted the outline of the tank on the floor. Most importantly we wanted it to comply with the safety rules and maximise our driver space and engine space at the same time.

Below are some photos of it in this stage. One side is a bit different from the other. As this was always going to be a throwaway thing, we could jump in and try differet ideas. Just chop and weld / tape without worrying about strength etc. A quick and ultimately time saving way to do it, although we did get frustrated with the lack of progress at actually building the real thing, it has paid off in spades at the end.

With that said, as Go said, the design of these things is a living process. It grows and changes as you build. Sure there a few elements like an appendix in the car that were designed and built for a previous idea and now been superceded... if we were building another one we would be so much faster and different again.

That is what we are looking at this year, now that it is complete, looking at it and asking how can we do this or that better.

That is indeed the question to ask other builders. We are only happy for you to go one better and not make the same mistakes that we did.

The advantage you have Stimie is all the other cool tanks already built on your P-38. We are the first to build on a Canberra Bomber (please correct me if I'm wrong and send photos immediately!) and we didn't want to cut it up unduly. This meant working blind for a long time as we didn't have a top and bottom shell to build in. In hindsight we should have made a quick fibreglass copy which we could have used as a guide. You have this option as I presume your tank is divided down the middle already? (Is it from the Kelly heritage?)

Not having a real world test up our sleeves hurts this process and so we can only comment on our build process at present.

Thanks all for your comments. Latest development is we have just bought the bits for a trailer. We are going to build an enclosed unit with some ramps that the car can sit on so we can work on it at a reasonable height at the salt.

(Editor: we have started a thread on the trailer and all things trailer elsewhere in the build diaries section).

Rev.H+


Title: construction photo
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 25, 2007, 11:08:40 PM
Rear photo.

This is when we were thinking of using the Buick V6 and motorcycle tyres at the front.

We also had a bigger garage then and a flat floor... memories!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 30, 2007, 09:59:35 PM
And when you were on me and Headgash's side of town
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 12, 2007, 03:27:25 AM
You talkin' to me ? :-D Hey Grumm , Clever Clogs( "I'm pretty good at thinking in 3D"  ) is off to Erop or is it You-rop? to be feted and backslapped for a couple of weeks and I'm well tired of working on mass produced crap, like today I did a metal finish welding job on a low-rider ute ( yeah bless you Henry) and scratch allergic new bikes so I reckon you and me get busy on the thing because I feel my appetite returning even if the finances are still a little tender .How about it??

Two people saw the tank for the first time in the last week or so , it re-instates your faith in what you're doing ....and to be honest the faith has been a little strained of late :?

The race meet cancellation reminded me of the Gram Parsons song " Thousand Dollar Wedding"    :( ......well , we're making a new cake and this time we're gonna get to eat it


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on July 01, 2007, 09:41:01 PM
It finally Runs

The good Doctor got it to start this morning

G



Title: You know , he's right
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 01, 2007, 10:23:42 PM
Yes , don't want to sound like we're completely STOOPID or anything but there has been lingering issue with the motor in the 'tank.......it hasn't run properly .What with Speedweek being cancelled this year and the ridiculous amount of effort that we put in to get the car finished we kind of ran out of steam. It was lucky  we didn't get to the lake really 'cause there were a bunch of things that would have been difficult or impossible to diagnose and fix while we were there . It's been hard to get motivated to re-start on the whole thing but steadily we've been building up steam. Last week we narrowed the engine problem down to the injectors not pulsing properly......last night the Colonel (Grumm 441) traced the problem to a broken solder join hidden in the loom.....I was off playing music while the other two ( he and the Reverend) tinkered and emptied my liquor cabinet......I returned home to find a note on the kitchen table " put fuel in it , it should run"..........so........I put fuel in it .........flicked the switches ........pressed the starter and it roared , and I mean roared into life.......so for the first time this morning I sat in the drivers seat started it and stepped on the throttle , it sounds like all hell breaking loose , yeah I know it's a V6 but it sounds savage , really savage...........I don't think I'm gonna stop grinning for a week.....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on July 01, 2007, 10:48:55 PM
You need to play that same song again right away while your Buds still suffer from the after effects of the refreshment you made available and they hear the best.
Even just the smell might help them to clear their systems at both ends. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 01, 2007, 11:06:12 PM
ha ha , don't worry Jack I've been out there every five minutes cranking it over and getting the local dogs barking just to make sure I wasn't dreaming , I just put the full exhaust on it , tamer , more refined but still LOUD......I'm as happy as a pig in a pile of S*** :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on July 01, 2007, 11:08:55 PM
..............I'm as happy as a pig in a pile of S*** :-D

Hey I think I am too for you guys  :-D  :-D  :-D ,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on July 02, 2007, 12:06:57 AM
A pig pile might not be my first choice, I think it might be more of a sailing moment, but I am pleased none the less. :-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 02, 2007, 12:25:55 AM
oh no 'ere we go.
 
Jack's "going about" "jibing" me on my choice of words...well the motor is out of a Commodore no less , I think he's getting " tacky"...a little "close to the wind" as it were...I think I'd rudder be in a pile than sipping Pims on the poop... :-D :-o :-D :wink:


As you were men......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on July 02, 2007, 12:35:22 AM
It ain't right the Americas Cup went down under, and we are prepared and armed for it's rightful place back in San Diego.
The restoration of our title as the "Sailing Center of the World" is only a matter of time now.
I don't want too talk about it ! :wink: 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 02, 2007, 01:20:44 AM
It ain't right the Americas Cup went down under, and we are prepared and armed for it's rightful place back in San Diego.
The restoration of our title as the "Sailing Center of the World" is only a matter of time now.
I don't want too talk about it ! :wink: 

..we haven't got your Auld Mug anymore the Kiwis have..... we didn't have it for very long at all, in fact we're about as likely as getting that thing back as Dennis Connor is of staying away from the solarium :-D :-D :-D :-D :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on July 02, 2007, 01:39:51 AM
The winged cat that tested against the sail version was sold but the slower one that sent Sir Fay packing can be booked for rides.
You guys down there are all the same !
I don't want to talk about it !  LOL :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on July 02, 2007, 02:56:05 AM
Jack, a mate of mine, Mark Fogarty is the Aussie Journalist that dared to ask Dennis Conner at the penultimate news conference the question, "So what's it like to be the first U.S. captain in the history of the Cup to be one race away from losing it."

Apparently his Australianess wasn't appreciated either in that room.

(Incidentally, I think he was also the last person to interview Ayrton Senna too...)

I remember the day well, our Prime Minister Bob Hawke wearing this incredibly loud jacket was on TV and said, "Any boss who sacks anyone for not turning up today is a bum."

Just hoping you guys get good enough at soccer too so that one day we can beat you at that too...



Back on topic, yes engine running. Very good. We designed and cut out the preliminary pieces for the aluminium petrol tank too. This will allow room for the parachute, protect it from heat from the exhaust pipe, and looks much better.

FSB

Reverend H+





Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on July 02, 2007, 04:49:39 AM
"A good effort is measured by the continued interest over the lifespan of the project.
The best effort is one that brings friends together beyond their life span that is surely extended." (me)   :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Peter Jack on July 02, 2007, 08:55:36 AM
Goggles:

I like your new avatar.

Jack:

Your going to have a tough time ever topping that last statement!

Pete


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 07, 2007, 06:04:43 PM
......yesterday we got organised so we can keep the car running in the shed without dying from fumes or a neighbor jumping the fence and hacking us to death with an axe .We put an extension on the exhaust to run a pipe right out of the shed , pretty funny......the Reverend cut a very nice hole in the weatherboards so from the kitchen it looks like the shed is idling.We took off the water tank and fitted up a radiator with a fan  because with the water tank on it's difficult to see or do anything in the engine bay .Then I put on an air cleaner because when you have a less than surgically clean environment  like my shed ingestion of foreign matter is more likely than not.....So for the first time we ran it up to operating temp. no problems . Also for the first time we went through the gears with it on the stands .For reasons that don't bear explaining I wasn't sure which way the shift went until yesterday...it works in a cross pattern , you know, like a cross ,not an "H" . Well I was hoping that left/right was first/second...and forward/back was third/fourth...well, no..and due to a peculiarity in the linkages it's not as simple as just swapping them over....I'm glad I've forgotten exactly how long I spent building that bit because it won't be quite as frustrating REbuilding it . :cry:

Today is the six-monthly club meeting .....usually there is much discussion about "amenities"and the like but it's a good chance to have a catch up with other fellow sufferers in the Salt Lake Victims Support Group . :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on July 08, 2007, 11:06:11 AM
"For reasons that don't bear explaining I wasn't sure which way the shift went until yesterday...it works in a cross pattern , you know, like a cross ,not an "H" ."

It's simple -- you're on the other side of the equator and international date line from us, so the shift pattern is of course farkled-up.

That was simple.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 1212FBGS on July 08, 2007, 01:31:02 PM
slim
what the heck are you talkin' about... don't ya know were talkin' about sailing here and jack is tryin' to talk tha ausi's out of a beer mug they don't even have.... jeeeesh pay attention...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: revolutionary on July 08, 2007, 09:54:08 PM
I'm a relative newbie to the LSR Tao of car building but I just spent the last hour reading the ongoing saga of your car and have to say I'm duly impressed with your commitment and fortitude.  Guess I'm just used to the drag racing world of GOT-TO-GET-IT-DONE-TONIGHT-SO-I-CAN-RACE-TOMORROW mentality. 

Looks like you're not far away from tying up the loose ends and hitting the salt rolling - assuming there is no 'R' word at Speedweek '08.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on July 08, 2007, 10:16:15 PM
Thanks Reverend Lutionary.

I admire your commitment and fortitude to read the whole saga thus far, it sure could do with an edit.

Thanks for your comments.

The DLRA club meeting went well yesterday with someone confessing that they are on the verge of buying a rolling Belly Tank project with a view to getting it up to speed. Top news, looks like there will definitely be a few Belly Tanks next year.

We also talked about running two tracks which will be great if we can it sorted out... for next year. Rod Hadfield and others will be checking out Bonneville this year to get the skinny on how to improve our tin pot affair. All good.

I have to say that I am really enjoying the fabrication side of the tank now. We have passed that hump where all you can see is what it is missing. Now we can just improve, and the simple act of making an aluminium cover to protect the sparkplug leads from the fan of the alternator is extreme satisfaction.

I am just itching to get back into the shed and improve something else...

Reverend H+









Title: Don't mention the R word.
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 08, 2007, 10:57:17 PM
Thanks Revolutionary , it's been an odyssey I can tell you.....neither of us have Auto or engineering businesses , or dependents ( if that makes any sense ) so it's all been out of work hours and we spent every spare cent we had while we were at it .As I've said before the Reverend and I are the kind of blokes who "think" we can do anything and are way too stubborn to concede defeat ...they have been valuable "traits"....if not for them we would have given up .We spent a stupid amount of money and not a single person who sees what we've built says anything  other than "where did all that go?"Anyone who's raced anything and more particularly built a race vehicle knows nothing is cheap but when there's no blueprint for what you're doing and you set some parameters that make it unique , you're really in for it B$G time!!

We haven't been motivated by an urge to beat anyone , there's no-one else in our class(E/GL) here , just a strange fascination with tanks , we still think they are the coolest looking things ever made with four wheels and we wanted to make one ourselves . When we went to the salt for the first time  it sealed the deal...the type of people it attracts are the same both here and there from what I can gather .Inventive . independent people with a drive to achieve something that not too many people "get".....my sign off on our club message board is " Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why"

It's been a great experience , just building it .....racing it is going to be a whole new trip again ......lots of gradual steps ...heaps and heaps of learning and arguing over the detail and science of what we're trying to do ....some disappointments , some fights :oops: , lots of people staring at it and shaking their heads , others with their eyes glazed over wondering when I'm just going to " shut up about that BLOODY CAR"......I've loved every minute of it.

Quote
It's simple -- you're on the other side of the equator and international date line from us, so the shift pattern is of course farkled-up.

....well ,Mils Nees Modles , I did make one concession in order to get it right the shift is on the RHS of the driver which is a blinkin' travesty!!!

........good point Kent , we need to get back on topic and talk about, :-D :wink: er , sailing....



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: bones on July 09, 2007, 09:13:41 PM
NICE work Doc&Rev.
Now it's running right you can take it for a quick spin round the block(does it have enough steering lock?)
Ev & I go to Heathcoate for the drags, I would like to have a look if we down that way.
cheers Bones


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on July 10, 2007, 01:09:57 AM
Thanks Bones,

Yep good idea. I think Heathcote would be the perfect place to check some stuff out. Be a month or two yet but we'll definitley let you know when we go.

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: whitworthsocket on July 11, 2007, 09:58:09 AM
Hello Doc & Rev,
Like your work Quite a few posts ago you mentioned a 3d Cad package. Can you name the product and state the pro's and con's?
I'm using AutoCAD and I can work very well in 2D. But 3D looks a learning curve I don't have the time for.
Regards Whitworthsocket.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 11, 2007, 06:18:54 PM
Hello Doc & Rev,
Like your work Quite a few posts ago you mentioned a 3d Cad package. Can you name the product and state the pro's and con's?
I'm using AutoCAD and I can work very well in 2D. But 3D looks a learning curve I don't have the time for.
Regards Whitworthsocket.

hmmmmmm ,I see a fruitful and possibly fruity relationship here ....a guy who calls himself Whitworthsocket and another one who wants to buy a Morris Minor panel-van...talkin' 3D ....

Watching the Reverend work in 3D has been a thing to behold Whitworth' , at one point I said to him, long before we laid the first weld..."it'd be great to know what we'll be able to see from the drivers seat ...if we can see the tops of the front tyres..." , "hang on a moment " he said....and promptly put the view point in the top of the drivers compartment like , you know , where your head would be and hey presto!!! there it was.........when we first laid the body panels onto the frame I was shaking my head saying incredulously " it looks just like the drawings"......the Reverend was looking at me a little offended " um , what did you expect it to look like"? :roll:

All that said it seems that looking back one of the most critical points in this whole process is the when you're sitting on a table with a helmet on going brmm, brmm with the other guy measuring around you ,in the long design process that follows this seemingly embarrassing part figures get rounded and little errors get compounded and the danger is that that the all important bit about the driver fitting in gets a little forgotten about .When you are trying to fit a lot into a little space room tends to disappear rather than seemingly come from no-where .I'm sure in the future we'll manage to wring some room out of it but right now it's tight all over .It seemed despite the amount of time that went into drafting that it still acted more as back-up than the last word because at every turn we discovered conflicts of space or measurement that required on the spot changes , then back to the CAD to reassess and redesign.The old addage "measure twice , cut once" is sound indeed , when building a tank i'd consider measuring twenty times and still expecting to cut twice..........................before you chuck the part out and make a better one. :wink:


Title: 3D programs
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on July 11, 2007, 07:26:10 PM
Hello Mr Socket.

AutoCad itself has a quite a good 3D package these days and given that is a program that you already are aware of, I'd recommend exploring that feature of it first.

The help files in it give fairly good synopsis of how to build objects, shade them and print them. Else there are a lot of free tutorials on the web.

If it is cool renders that you want you can then export these drawings to any one of a number of 3D drawing Rendering packages to develop them into a decent picture, for example 3DStudioMax (3DMax), Rhino, and Maya.

I typically draw elements of the car in AutoCad then import them into 3DMax

3DSMax  is a program with all the bells and whistles, although this makes it harder to master in the long run than some of the simpler rendering packages out there it really produces good results and has a huge following and therefore support on the web. You can complete generate the 3d elements in the program, colour them, add lighting, even animate them into movies.

A quick search for some car specific tutorials for 3DMax brought up the following examples:

http://www.carbodydesign.com/tutorials/software-tutorials.php?app=3DStudio%20MAX
http://www.danielbuck.net/index.php?page=tutorials
http://www.3d-palace.com/tmas/video.php?vid=58

It does take time, this is no quick fix to get super results, but you should be able to get something serviceable in reasonable time.

As Dr Goggles mentioned, one of the best aspects of the tool is the ability to move a viewpoint around the object that you are looking at so you can really get a feel for its shape. This is so handy when blocking out a car where you can quickly alter wheelbase, colour, shape, etc.

I must mention that I have an industry bias to these programs as I am a puppet animator and architect by trade and so these are the design tools I use regularly.

Other programs from different fields that you might be looking at would include something like SolidWorks which is from the engineering direction and can help set up all the CadCam tooling for you for the parts you wish to manufacture.

What do you want the program for? Pretty pictures or to work stuff out, or to actually build it with?

Hope this has been of help.

rH+
speed deacon



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: whitworthsocket on July 12, 2007, 12:02:12 PM
Thanks for the info, I will be  using the software to design and build the machine and the wind tunnel.
I have Rhino but again the learning curve/time is all time spent away from fabrication.
Regards Whitworthsocket


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on July 12, 2007, 06:58:25 PM
Building a virtual wind tunnel hey?

I have read a bit about the growing ability of software to predict real world conditions for aero design. Would love to hear and learn more if you are into it. Maybe we could set up a new topic for it?

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: whitworthsocket on July 16, 2007, 11:32:11 AM
Steady On, Im talking about a real wind tunnel.
My only experience of a virtual tunnel is reading the JCB Dieselmax site

http://www.jcbdieselmax.com/html/car.php?PHPSESSID=dfbda02db0fbb0e9fa168c4dd8224347

http://www.jcbdieselmax.com/html/car.php?subsection=3


I quote directly from there.
A record-breaker's body shape not only needs to be highly aerodynamically efficient but the underside of the vehicle is also of critical importance, because the air flowing under the car accounts for about a half of the total aerodynamic drag.

Ron Ayers believes that the interaction between tyre and salt can significantly affect the aerodynamic efficiency; the effect of salt and debris thrown up by the cars passage slows the car down. To minimise this drag he has very carefully shaped not just the spats around the lower section of the wheels, but also the flow of air through the choke points between the wheels. Spray beneath the front of the car is deflected out by the sides of it behind the front wheels, to ensure that the rear wheels and tyres run on as clean a surface as possible.

All of the aerodynamics study was done using computational fluid dynamics, not in a wind tunnel, for two reasons.
JCB DIESELMAX JCB DIESELMAX

"Even at the speeds we envisage, Ayers explained, compressibility effects are beginning to become significant. Indeed, in the region near the wheel/ground contact points the local airflow actually goes supersonic! We could not simulate such effects in a low-speed wind tunnel with a rolling road.

The second reason is one of scale. To fit our long slender vehicle into a tunnel with a rolling road would mean restricting ourselves to a model scale of about one sixth and the errors would have been too great.

The main changes as the shape evolved were to lengthen the nose and round it off, to lengthen the tail and minimise the frontal area. At every stage Ayers had to achieve the optimal balance between aerodynamic drag, skin drag (the larger the surface area the higher the skin drag) and downforce. If the car is envisaged as an arrow or a dart, it is the tail fin that acts as the flights to maintain stability at maximum speed."

Regards Whitworthsocket.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: whitworthsocket on July 16, 2007, 11:40:00 AM
To all interested,
Here is the results of my wind tunnel research. There are many references to the wright brothers windtunnel I have not included them.


http://www.geversaircraft.com/wt/wtsmall.htm

http://mae.uccs.edu/jroney/SpaceGrant/WTReport.pdf

http://archives.caltech.edu/search_catalog.cfm?results_file=Detail_View&recsPerPage=1&firstRecToShow=36&search_field=Wind%20tunnels&entry_type=&photo_id=&cat_series=

http://www.speedace.info/wind_tunnel.htm          http://www.speedace.info/pitot_tube.htm

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/WindTunnel/wandering_windtunnel.htm

http://www.ezcomm.com/Windtunnel/index.html

http://www.windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/pics/9x7/9x7dimPlan.html

http://www.theplanpage.com/Months/2306/tunnel_files/tunnel.pdf

http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/awt/index.html       http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/awt/tenfoot/wirerig1.jpg

http://lisar.larc.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/EL-1999-00415.jpeg

http://www.nlr.nl/documents/flyers/f137-02.pdf

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/tt/research/aerodynamics/wind-tunnel/tunnel.html

http://connect.larc.nasa.gov/connect_bak/pdf/measure.tools.guides.pdf

This is what I have come up with I like the Gevers aircraft for a straight through.
I am still not sure if I have room for one of those So it may be a bigger version of the
Speedace.

If any one has any more I would appreciate the links.
Regards Whitworthsocket


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: whitworthsocket on July 16, 2007, 01:50:39 PM
Reverend Gash and other wind tunnellers,
I happened on this after I had posted the first info about JCB Dieselmax

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/09/14/aerodynamic-jcb-dieselmax-broke-land-speed-record-without-wind-t/

Quote
"
A few weeks ago, the JCB Dieselmax broke the world land-speed record for a diesel-powered car. For good reason, the posts we wrote on the subject (see below) were quite popular, so I know there's going to be at least some interest in the technical news that the Dieselmax was built using Ansys Technology. Ansys has been making simulation software since 1970, and the Dieselmax's aerodynamic style was designed using the company's Fluent computational fluid dynamics (CFD) software package without any additional wind tunnel testing. One reason was that the Dieselmax is too long for traditional wind tunnels. From a green perspective, using a computer instead of a wind tunnel seems like a good way to save energy, and the results sure speak for themselves."

I also had a look at
http://www.ansys.com/products/cfx.asp

There may be enough to start a new thread as the Rev suggested.
Regards Whitworthsocket




Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on July 16, 2007, 06:48:34 PM
So you are going to build a wind tunnel...

Wow. Um... we have a 1:5 scale model of our car, any chance of sticking it in one day?

rH+


Title: Meanwhile , back on earth.
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 16, 2007, 08:02:04 PM
On the weekend we continued on . The Rev' got busy building a bulkhead to isolate the engine section from the tail section...me? I got started on the gearshift...the more I thought about it the less inspired I felt so in the end I just held the selector shafts ( 3/4' round tube)together , drew a line across them and cut 'em , then welded them back in the reverse order , that worked .However while fooling around with it without the support gantry attached I glanced back at them and the rear shift seemed to have a lot , read LOT of slop...then it fell off....it was broken off right at the gearbox where normally there is just a tag with a nut holding it on. This I might add is a unique size, yes it looks like 3/8 unf but if you tighten one of those on it it's gone ...I think they're 11/32 , great!....Our contraption has a piece of square tube welded over this tag to extend it out about eight inches so the cables can meet it at right angles.Earlier in the day I mentioned to the Rev that sometimes I look at things we've made and struggle to remember actually doing them , because we were just so busy with it ....I was a bit puzzled as to how this piece got broken( stretched not sheared or bent) when the only force on it is the nut ( inside the tube , tightened with a long extension)that holds the selector tag to it .After a few days I think I now remember the specific moment when I tightened that nut :oops:....It's one thing to make something that works ................................................... it's another to make it strong enough to resist an ape swinging on it. :wink:

Right now I'm looking at getting a piece machined up , out of something hard with a usuable thread on it........on we go.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: whitworthsocket on July 24, 2007, 07:51:05 AM
I'm sure we can accommodate you at the right price!
I will keep you posted.
Regards Whitworthsocket

So you are going to build a wind tunnel...

Wow. Um... we have a 1:5 scale model of our car, any chance of sticking it in one day?

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 18, 2007, 06:39:25 PM
Got the gearbox selector drama sorted , built the double throttle body manifold with a bit of an extension to the plenum and have nearly finished the fuel tank.Put a cross piece over the tank outlet to defeat vortexes and a baffle to calm to return flow it looks pretty good but it turns out the carefully calculated extension to the filler neck is too long .......We're using the original filler from the Canberra tank which is a big brass screw in job about 3 inches across as the access in the body and then we have a 1inch screw-on weldable alloy filler in the actual tank

Colonel Grumm has assumed the job of making the progressive throttle body linkages much to my relief ....I'd stared at them for long enough and the administrator was tiring of them sitting on the kitchen table....


Had to replace some power tools this week and stock up on some expendables so it hasn't been cheap but onward we go......


Title: round and round the mulberry bush
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 13, 2007, 08:29:36 PM
Progress , slow , but progress all the same.

As with most of what we have been doing this year we tend to be re-making things we have already made at least once before .Sounds terribly inefficient doesn't it? Well, not having much to compare to and sticking firmly to my doctrine of "I'd rather make one badly myself that does the job than pay for one that doesn't' and the other firmly held belief that it's "more fun making it than working to pay for it " ( I can hear a few saying "Hallelujah Brother" ! there) we are getting closer to a car that we'll feel comfortable standing next to , while people pore over it and say things like " Yeah , 200 mile an hour you reckon? , do you think it's safe?"

It's sort of like packing a car for a holiday , we're trying to cram a lot of stuff in and each time we think we've done well we realize that we've left out the this or the that and it all comes out again and we manage to jam another piece of gear in there and hopefully make things work a little better.

I'd made the brake pedal and master cylinder set-up over a year ago and it had been put in position and been working though I hadn't been really happy with it .In the mean time a few things down at the drivers feet had changed a bit and the job of "just bolting the brake pedal in" got pushed aside.The pedal pivot had been a little sloppy so last week I made a new one which was a tighter fit and was hollow with a grease nipple and a series of holes around it, this was a great improvement .When we started on the job of installing it it didn't seem right , we ain't too proud to change or admit that our previous flashes of genius might have been more delusions of grandeur and so the back yard is the resting place for many pieces that have taken pride of place in the car only to be replaced when good sense or skill of manufacture prevailed.The clutch and throttle pedal are both foot shaped rocker pedals .This allows one to rest on the clutch by pressing toe down or release by pressing heel down , there is very little other room to put your left foot anywhere so a pedestal pedal was out of the question .The rocker throttle pedal means it works push-pull.These two pedals pivot on a piece of 2 inch angle which sits over the tie rods and pitman ( which is a dual eye number from a Kombi)as they run through the nose of the car , you don't want something getting mixed up with them during a run or worse still during an "upset".

The brake pedal arrangement was designed to pivot from the floor which at that point is angling steeply upwards.The problem with that is that the top of the master cylinder was very close to the pitman arm and when I looked at it I couldn't get the pedal far enough away from the driver ( for me , and the Rev struggles even more in the confined space :roll:), not how I wanted it.Each of the versions of this pedal I've made have been done so I could flip the master cylinder in order to pivot from below or above and that's what we decided to do.Fortunately there was enough room next to the steering box, beside the knuckle, under the top frame rail and above the tie rod cover to fit the requisite pieces in. In the end the mount for the cylinder ,the pedal pivot I'd made that week and , um , nothing else remained from what was the "final design" .....the neat looking pedal box was hacked away , a new pedal arm was fabbed and the link position for the push rod was changed .....never say never I say!!!

While this was going on The Rev was busy trying to work out where we would mount the cockpit switch-bay.Now ,no amount of good ideas , experience or sense was gonna change how this went because it had to be where we could reach it with arm straps on, and where it would fit.That turned out to be at shoulder height behind the front hoop .The Rev spent a bit of time mocking up a floor console because one place we have got room is under our knees when strapped in and I figured while sitting in the car that it was probably safer down there and easy to reach , not for the Rev , I trusted his word that he "couldn't see what was going on down there" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Last week we made a bit of progress down the back with the fuel tank , fuel pump , fuel lines and keeping heat away from the above.We made a sandwich out of two sheets of polished Al with a piece of cement sheet between to sit over the rear exhaust collector , the fuel tank sits an inch above this and radiated heat was a great concern here as we are intent on having the exhaust route out the rear of the car rather than running zoomies or side-winders.I made a mounting clamp for the fuel pump out of a piece of 2 inch exhaust tube with a pinch bolt and a bit of angle so it bolts nicely to the rear bulkhead under the fuel tank We had already installed steel lines tightly clipped along the outside of the frame but when we looked at it all we figured that when things got hot in the car we'd have hot fuel too.We have run rubber lines inside fibreglass sleeve with foil braid along the side of the water tank as it is the best combo of avoiding the scatter shield and all the "hot-spots" to be found along the way.

Colonel Grumm got the linkage on the dual throttle body manifold working , nicely too .He said "you're gonna have to weld that up again coz it leaks like crazy"......" how did you work that out " I asked ....."well when I pulled it out of my parts washer there was fluid pissing out everywhere!".............."Oh" :oops: :oops: He also made a neat cable arrangement that will replace the Hillbilly one that a certain Doctor made, hey , it worked!

I'll have a fast net-connection next week so I might even post some photo's...

Be good everyone :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 15, 2007, 02:38:54 AM
Ok , I've arrived in the 21st century with a thump , cable internet ......here's some shots of the bellytank .................actually for the moment they're offline
This is a horizontal front on showing the frontal area , taken shortly after we put the car on the ground for the very first time about two years ago
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/Tankshotssep014.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 15, 2007, 02:40:00 AM
oh , while I'm here ...more

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/Tankshotssep006.jpg)

Dr Strangelove anyone?

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/Tankshotssep003.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 15, 2007, 02:44:43 AM
here's a view from the right side before we worked out the manifold , as it appears here it is backwards , the normal orientation would mean that the throttle body wouldn't have cleared the water tank, however this way there is no room for the alternator.....
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/stewshots166.jpg?t=1190025822)
so we chopped the top off it and mounted the throttle body vertically , then we thought "well there is room for two."...
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/stewshots189.jpg?t=1190026212)
so.....
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P9160260.jpg?t=1189987507)
This is the dual throttle body manifold , we increased the size of the plenum from the single version, we went with simultaneous opening

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/CopyofP8260218.jpg?t=1189987597)
Here we have the rear bulkhead showing the new Al fuel tank , lines and forward of that the water tank



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on September 15, 2007, 05:58:36 AM
OHOH, I broke it.
I got the narrative just fine and lots of blank space for what I am sure are great pictures. :-(


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: gazza414 on September 15, 2007, 08:21:06 AM
Stewie...you been on the Plymouth tonight...not lookin good pal


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 15, 2007, 09:31:59 AM
Ta , Gazza , actually they're there....it has something to do with the link,at various times I've refreshed the page and different variations have appeared ....some photo's one time others the next....F.I.I.K.W....trust me ( or someone else ) I'll get better at this.....

......there second try I've tuned it a bit ....it has something to do with the MSN site ......couldn't do all the shots at once ....I should use a Mexican provider :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ok I've fixed it with photobucket......
Now , once we've sorted this car we've got plenty to go on with.....
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/stewshots036.jpg?t=1189987857)


Title: Ike Andy
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 16, 2007, 09:55:22 PM
Ok , I've mentioned at various times we have another motor..
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/stewshots177.jpg?t=1189996487)

It's a 3.6litre all Aluminium 60 degree V6 quad overhead with vari-cam on both the inlet and exhausts .They are quoted at 195KW which is high 200's in Horsepower at 6500rpm. It has a servo throttle and a split plenum which can change from a dual to single plane, these may well be chucked we're not sure yet.The reason we've stuck with the early 90 degree motor for the time being is that we will need to make a bell-housing  and study up on the computer stuff for this motor before we can use it , It's a pity because straight up it should be fast ( in fact on a recent holiday to NZ we hired the low spec version and I have a speedo shot that....um , not here :wink:), it was a present from the local arm of GM........we couldn't believe their generosity as it came complete , brand new with no strings attached....

Now ,here's me getting the bottom end that we are using in the mean time out of my brothers old car...it had a few miles on it but it came from the country , they'd had it since new and let's just say he drives like an old woman so it was a good get....
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/stewshots229.jpg?t=1189997509)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: simplybebop on October 03, 2007, 12:02:48 AM
how much are you expecting to weight when its all said and done minus driver?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 03, 2007, 02:05:09 AM
how much are you expecting to weight when its all said and done minus driver?

It's only a guess but at the moment I'd be surprised if it's over 2500llbs .We've been trying to make it heavy on the advice of others who've built here , shouldn't be too long before we can weigh it..............why you ask huh?



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: simplybebop on October 03, 2007, 03:04:16 PM
i just bought a f15 600 gallon tank that im designing the chassis for now, just wondering the weight of yours so i can get a general idea.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 03, 2007, 05:03:56 PM
Hi Bebop
Our car was built solely with the salt in mind there being no Maxton type event here so traction rather than power to weight was what we were concentrating on.John lynch who runs a P38 "style" KB powered Fuel lakester ( that ran Bonneville on the 50th anniversary)that's done 301 and John Broughan who with his brother Paul has an F class 'tank that has run 211 both said make it heavy because when you're finished and you need ballast , you mightn't be able to fit it anywhere. That may not be applicable to you. Our car has very little space in it as we wanted to keep the tank in it's original dimensions.

What type of chassis are you designing? I sense you are going for a trad type ...one thing we found was that the space frame has allowed us flexibilty by allowing it to be non-symmetrical if required (....WTF???)...as you may have noticed there has been a lot of chopping and changing in our build and the cramming in of gear means that at times we've needed to "make" space that we didn't have ..mostly this has been at the front where the design of the superstructure has finally settled after going through quite a few changes in order to accommodate everything and make it useable.

In another conversation I had with John Lynch he looked at a draft of our car in profile view and said " no suspension hey? , you know there's arguments for both" ( his car is sprint car based and has torsion bars) I said "yeah well one thing we've realized in this John is we can't take too many people's advice seriously" ( too much conflicting advice!!!!!!!!) to which John laughed and shook his head , laughed again and said " you're on you're F#@$#%^$N' own aren't ya ! ....no-one realizes.....everyone wants to tell you what they think ya should do but in the end all of these things , bar very few , are completely different and you've just gotta build it yourself"

That's the nut of it Bebop , unless you are copying a very established design such as a P38 you will be designing every single part and it will be a series of compromises between available space , time ,money ........and how cool you want it to look. Spend your time learning the important aspects of the game that makes LSR unique and aim your car at that , it's a huge job but it'll be your baby . Personally I couldn't think of a more fun thing to do. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: simplybebop on October 04, 2007, 02:57:43 AM
thanks for the wisdom, i would like to go after a proven design if only such specs were available online. But yeah my frame will be traditional style with a model A front axle and a solid mounted rear axle although the condition of maxton may warrant some type of rear suspension. Ive got to decide how long to make it , idk if you have ever seen a f15 600 gallon but there are several feet across the center that are the same diameter which i could remove, but im going to get everything installed up to diff. before i make the final cuts on my tank. I guess its going to be a challenge at the least.  the only thing im shooting for in the whole project is as little weight as i can get away with since ill be working with only low 200ish whp.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 06, 2007, 02:25:43 AM
Hi Bebop
Here's a link to John Broughan's tank which he home built from a Sabre Tank...

http://www.users.bigpond.com/jbrough/lakes/lakes.html

gee , those F15 tanks are pointy , mind you don't hurt yourself... :-D

Quote
there are several feet across the center that are the same diameter which i could remove

Have you considered a modular chassis/subframe ? it might allow you to experiment with different rear ends , AND different engine bay arrangements.........I'm just dreaming coz we don't have that option

You didn't say whether you were building a "bellytank per se or a lakester , so , are you gonna sit up front or go Seth Hammond style??????



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 16, 2007, 04:42:36 PM
Hi Everyone ,
got a busy fortnight coming up here , a mad thrash actually....this coming Sunday the Bellytank is being wheeled out of the shed for the very first time !!And going to a show , huh? One of the DLRA members wants to have a little exhibit of salt stuff at the Early Fords show that his car club is having and has talked us into letting him have the tank there........worst thing is I can't go.It's a long way off a show car at the moment but it's going all the same.
The following weekend another DLRA member has hired Mangalore airport North of Melbourne (http://www.kestrelaviation.com.au/photos/runway.jpg)for a test and tune day and the tank is going for it's first run .The engine has run , the clutch has been engaged and wheels have turned but not while the car was on the ground ......we'll let you know how we go.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on October 16, 2007, 05:00:05 PM
.................we'll let you know how we go.

Neat, be sure and take pictures and write it all up and don't have too much fun,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 16, 2007, 05:32:23 PM
Neat, be sure and take pictures and write it all up and don't have too much fun,Sum
Thanks Sum

Too much fun , that's news to me ,
Too much fun there's bound to be ,
A whole lot of things I ain't never done
'Cause I ain't never had too much fun.

dunno who wrote that one but it always made me laugh.....

I'ts already been heaps of fun , thing is I'd almost forgotten that one day we'd be driving the thing....can't believe it's actually leaving the garage , ( cue 2001 theme music) CROSSING THE THRESH-HOLD!!!!..............ten bucks it doesn't get into top gear before something goes wrong....last night The Rev was looking at some oil stains under the gearbox...." how did that get there...?"  ...."well , um it's got oil in it"....this is just the beginning  :roll:


Title: Mangalore
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 16, 2007, 06:23:28 PM
Yeah, there are not enough "x's" in "excited" to describe it properly.

It's fantastic to have this opportunity to test before the big week next year, and only two hours away!

Just to see it out of the shed is going to be very educational. I want to have a look at it from every angle to tune its shape, its livery, blah.

As you know the DLRA only has one event a year so this is a much needed pre-season training session.
There is talk of holding a Maxton style event but I think test and tune is the go.

Even the name is good; "Mangalore"...

Shall post photos of both events.

Reverend H+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on October 17, 2007, 08:51:23 AM
Well I've never had so much fun
No I've never had so much fun
I can't remember when i've never had so much fun?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: revolutionary on October 18, 2007, 10:06:10 PM
Hey crazy Aussie guys, while cruising around Melbourne, try to find Michael who owns Ice Ignition components there.  Super nice guy and makes a good ignition system.  Tell him the redneck hillbillies from Tennessee said hello and he'll probably sell you an ignition system for twice jobber price after he stops laughing.


Title: After all this time
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 20, 2007, 06:46:55 PM
Yesterday was a long time coming. For the very first time the Bellytank left the garage. I'd had a mad thrash this week, one of the club members Peter Quick ( yeah funny that ) is a member of the early Ford club and although the 'tank is a little short on Ford bits he wanted to have an exhibit of salt stuff at a show they were having today. One of the bands I play in (andrecamilleri.com) has had gigs at the Melbourne International Arts Festival so there's been rehearsals , and the gigs ....and I have to earn a living as well ....in the mean time I've been out in the shed . One day we'll be able to do a proper detail on the car but so far it's a continual process of coaxing things together , shrinking the gaps , making things work better , fit neater .The paint that has been on the car since March was a two hour job we did the night before we thought we were leaving for the salt , this last week I've spent a lot of time on the canopy , getting the skin attached properly and then reworking the catches and shut lines , it's the butterfly effect ....the tiniest adjustment here changes everything there....sometimes I thought I was going mad..." why don't the catches lock in , they used to?...." grind , file , fiddle , open close , open , close , file , curse , open ,CLICK !!!......Gig Friday night ,back in the shed 7am Saturday , a quick rub, a shot of spray filler , a rumage through the left-over paint supplies to find some white and then the final fit-up of the nose to kill time before I start the aircompressor too early and my neighbors want to beat me to death..... If you ever want advice on how to paint things really, really quickly , and not very well drop me a line , I could paint your car in the time it takes you to go to the can and wash your hands.The new billet front hubs arrived this week but I didn't have time to fit 'em....the fuel tank isn't in it either so it won't be getting started at the show.

I clear the shed and Vaughn gives me a hand to get a trailer out of the driveway...the time is drawing near , Vaughn goes leaving me to do the roll out. I set up the hoist and lower the car off the stands front first then the rear , gee it's low!........I start to roll it out of the shed , it won't make it over the 2 inch rise at the door....I put some boards down and hey presto it rolls into the sunshine for the first time :-D Greg Watters rings about the airfield meet next week " how's it going??"... "mate , it's going very well I'm staring at it in the driveway!" Grumm arrrives , we just stand there and stare at it , it's low ,low ,low!! I have to get down and loosen the tailpipe in order to fit the tail piece of the bodywork on ...now that's an annoying job when the car is on the stands , on the ground it's nigh impossible , I'm lying face down on the driveway.....ideas on how to hoist the whole car quickly going through my head......

Pete arrives with the trailer and it takes about half an hour to get it on , this is the first time we've been able to look at it from any further away than three feet... it looks great , they pull out onto the street , I take a short video stroll around it on the trailer and they drive away , our baby!!!!!

I'll post the footage on youtube soon .

I started at work at 7am this morning so I can't go to the show( but I can write this!) and I'm here til 8pm.......race cars , as you all know ....ain't cheap. :wink:


Title: Re: After all this time
Post by: Sumner on October 20, 2007, 06:54:33 PM
Yesterday was a long time coming...................I'll post the footage on youtube soon ...........

What are you waiting for??? You don't need no stinking sleep, food or income (http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/BigWink2.gif).

Oh by the way, congrats on making it this far,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 21, 2007, 06:32:14 AM
OK , it went to the show , word is it attracted a bit of attention, here it is yesterday on the trailer before it left...
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/PA200021.jpg?t=1192965846)

here ,walk around it on the trailer.....

 http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/?action=view&current=PA200028.flv

while it was at the show it got a little striping done on the water tank...

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/PA210041.jpg?t=1192965947)

the guy who did it was Ryan Ford his dad is Aussie Hot Rod royalty Eddie Ford , his brother Kyle wrote a salt book and although I have no pictures or punctures myself I reckon this little ink on Kyle's arm is pretty cool..

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/KylesTankTat094.jpg?t=1192966074)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on October 21, 2007, 06:46:29 AM
SMOOTH ! :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on October 21, 2007, 10:08:34 AM
Wow!!  If a picture is worth a thousand words a video must be worth at least 1000 pictures.  I've always liked it in the pictures, but they don't do justice to what you guys have accomplished.  I think you are going to go fast, have fun and you had better get use to people taking pictures of the car.

Just curious where is the air intake??

.......also I think your trailer plates have expired,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on October 21, 2007, 10:24:35 AM
Terrific!  You guys need to get out more often!

Mike


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 21, 2007, 03:19:05 PM
Just curious where is the air intake??
.......also I think your trailer plates have expired,Sum

thanks for the positive comments peoples,  it means a lot. :wink:

at the moment the top edge of the throttle bodies are just through the cowl if you look at the striping shot you can see how close they are to the top of the hoop, we'll be making some sort of hood to sit over them, it 'll spoil the profile a bit.Some halfwit ( er, me) got his sums wrong when he made the plenum for the manifold and made it about 1/2 inch too high...that will change .I'd even thought in the meantime of just using an oval shaped Weber mesh filter to calm the air over the throttles.....

As for the trailer ...sheesh , the number plates on hire trailers are mostly decorative...most of them have expired rego


Title: Scoopy-Doo
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 21, 2007, 09:17:20 PM
at the moment the top edge of the throttle bodies are just through the cowl if you look at the striping shot you can see how close they are to the top of the hoop, we'll be making some sort of hood to sit over them, it 'll spoil the profile a bit.Some halfwit ( er, me) got his sums wrong when he made the plenum for the manifold and made it about 1/2 inch too high...that will change .I'd even thought in the meantime of just using an oval shaped Weber mesh filter to calm the air over the throttles.....

Is this the right way to go?...I know we don't want the pressure up , we don't want the air going at right angles to the throats either...is a scoop that will turn the air down but allow it to flow around the TB's what we want?.....there are louvres behind there so it won't get pressurized......expert opinions requested :wink:

while I'm here , another shot from Sat..this time with the front up....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/PA200012.jpg?t=1193019371)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on October 21, 2007, 09:22:11 PM
we pressurize the air going to the carbs/throttle bodies with an air box every chance we get, although it is only worth about 5-10 MPH...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on October 21, 2007, 10:07:58 PM
we pressurize the air going to the carbs/throttle bodies with an air box every chance we get, although it is only worth about 5-10 MPH...

I agree......you could have the air there separating from the body and not getting to the engine.....................here are some examples of what could be done.......

(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-1/253-1-06.jpg)     

(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-2/449-2-06.jpg)     

(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-4/1000-2-06.jpg)     

Maybe Stainless would enlighten us on the air intake on the Bockscar,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on October 21, 2007, 10:48:56 PM
Sum and Doc, As you can see in this section of our "trophy holding team" picture, the air intake is a NACA duct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA_duct).  Properly designed, they present no drag, and are quite effective (if it is easy to paint, it is not working).  We have recorded positive pressure in the air box with the throttle plates in the vertical position. 
What else can I tell you?

sorry, couldn't get the entire pic to fit...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 21, 2007, 11:22:06 PM

(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-2/449-2-06.jpg)     

Sum
thanks for the tips on scoops , a NACA might be just the thing for us , now ,I couldn't help but notice , this vehicle lacks something that is a common feature on pretty much every other vehicle , plane or boat bar Tanks and submarines with which it in fact seems to share a common feature :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: sockjohn on October 21, 2007, 11:42:58 PM

 

Sum
thanks for the tips on scoops , a NACA might be just the thing for us , now ,I couldn't help but notice , this vehicle lacks something that is a common feature on pretty much every other vehicle , plane or boat bar Tanks and submarines with which it in fact seems to share a common feature :wink:

Motorcycle streamliner with one as well.
http://www.arrowracing.org/

I would have to dust off a book to know for sure, but my fuzzy memory seems to think that a NACA duct works best in a high pressure zone, which seems to make sense.  I'm sure by the time you dig up enough information to make one you'll find out if my memory is correct or not.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on October 22, 2007, 12:33:38 AM
NACA ducts are pretty simple.  Here are a couple that I put in the hood of a factory turbocharged Alfa Romeo coupe for the Intel engineer down the street from the shop.  I used templates that he provided.

Mike


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Speed Limit 1000 on October 22, 2007, 02:47:29 AM
The NACA duct in the Bockscar is a Boeing design from a B52 bomber, we still hope to give it back to the USAF some day :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on October 22, 2007, 10:22:21 AM
The NACA duct in the Bockscar is a Boeing design from a B52 bomber, we still hope to give it back to the USAF some day :-D

And is not from a high pressure zone... a properly designed one creates it's own zone.  Ours is actually salvaged from an incident victim, and seems to work rather well... 
We have had other scoop ideas, but always came back to the one that gave us the initial success...


Title: Scoop de Ville
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 22, 2007, 10:47:42 AM
 I like the NACA's in the hood 4BM...  The idea of the NACA duct makes more sense to me as the disturbance to the shape of the car is less , obviously it ain't gonna work if we place it poorly. the "cylinder" of air that a 232 is using at speed is fairly small , our shape is pretty clean..hopefully we can get that air without having to stick something too far out from the car .

The NACA duct in the Bockscar is a Boeing design from a B52 bomber, we still hope to give it back to the USAF some day :-D

And is not from a high pressure zone... a properly designed one creates it's own zone.  Ours is actually salvaged from an incident victim, and seems to work rather well... 
We have had other scoop ideas, but always came back to the one that gave us the initial success...

I've "winged " a couple of overflyers but haven't managed to bring down anything on my plot that had useable ducts on it so I guess we'll have to shell out for some new ones to use. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on October 22, 2007, 11:07:56 AM
Read the technical stuff on the NACA before you buy, many of the ones on the market are not designed correctly.  We had that experience....
Is there an AAF salvage yard on the island / continent?  They have had a couple of possibilities in the inventory...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hitz on October 22, 2007, 11:09:59 AM
The NACA duct in the Bockscar is a Boeing design from a B52 bomber, we still hope to give it back to the USAF some day :-D


Stainless,

  Nice of you to comment on you NACA duct. I've decided to use one on #72 G/GL and was not sure it was the best way to go. I'll be dumping it directly into a large air box that includes an air cooler exchange. It's good to get information from someone that is in a very successful group!

  Jon's Landracing site is a godsend to all us and really a bone to new builders, please support this site.

  Thanks to the Dr and the Rev for helping bring the lakester builders out of the "closet". Sum too!

  H


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rex Schimmer on October 22, 2007, 11:51:23 AM
Rev,
Don't buy any of the commercially available NACA ducts that you see on NASCAR cars as they are really junk. Carol Smith has the info for building your own NACA duct in his "Engineer to Win" book and the important things are: Locate the duct in an area that has attached air flow, make the edges sharp, make a nice radius on the upper part of the inlet opening. Not hard to make and you can actually make them with some aluminum and epoxy if you can't weld alum. Or do as Stainless suggests find a "real" duct from an airplane and use it.

Rex


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 22, 2007, 12:11:29 PM
Oi Rex
I've got Engineer to Win but none of his others, I don't remember the NACA plans in it ...Yes I can weld Al( the Rev' would beg to differ)so I guess as soon as I can find the relationship formula( cripes , I've got the numbers wrong in that one before) for the NACA ducts somewhere I might have a shot.........I feel a project coming on :evil:

  Jon's Landracing site is a godsend to all us and really a bone to new builders, please support this site.

  Thanks to the Dr and the Rev for helping bring the lakester builders out of the "closet". Sum too!
H

Jon hasn't got back to me on this one but our idea for repaying Jon's efforts and the chance to tell our story in such a great forum is to sell our soon to be printed T-Shirts to landracing.com members and have payment made direct to the site , you get a shirt he gets a donation and we get the satisfaction of helping out ....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 22, 2007, 06:07:04 PM
Goggles I have no problems with you as an aluminium welder, I blame myself in fact for what must have been miscommunication on my half when I said weld together the aluminium petrol tank it must have sounded like turn it into a colander...


Title: more images
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 22, 2007, 11:05:39 PM
Some more images at the show...
Starting to look like my avatar!

View from top has muscles, which is a good thing for a muscle car...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 22, 2007, 11:06:42 PM
Needs bodywork and paint...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on October 23, 2007, 04:36:41 AM
Oi,

Forgot to post one with Mr. Squiggle
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/FalcShow01.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on October 23, 2007, 05:42:39 AM
oh , while I'm here ...more


(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/stewshots240.jpg?t=1189987177)
this shot shows the engine bay with the Reverend on the left and our engine man , patron Saint and wiring whizz Colonel Grump on the right
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/Tankshotssep006.jpg?t=1189987383)
here they are again with a photo taken in September 06



This has to be my all time favorite set of pictures that portray the true and lasting spirit of LSR better than can ever be explained to anybody else.
This is the type of shot that should be made into a brass plaque for a suitable award for the few that might deserve it.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: gazza414 on October 23, 2007, 06:49:15 AM
am here I'm thinking that you were only capable of scootering around on a VESPA on the salt...how wrong we are !!!!

looking good guys :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on October 23, 2007, 02:44:32 PM
...............the important things are: Locate the duct in an area that has attached air flow..........................Rex

"Area that has attached air flow" is the reason I'm afraid to try a NACA duct.

Without wind tunnel time how can you be sure you are in this area??  I've noticed the great success that Mike has had with one on Ack Attack and asked him about using one.  His comment to me was that if the engine wasn't turbocharged he wouldn't run one as then the placement becomes very critical.  The turbo can suck air from about anywhere.  Mike please correct me if I misunderstood you.  I'm not saying one won't work, but how can you be positive on a NA engine you have it where it is needed and sized correctly?? Now most of the Bockscars records are un-blown, so you can't argue with sucess on their part, so I'd look to Stainless as your counselor if you go this route.

Most air inlets are very small and thus don't need to affect the aero much on a car and have been proven to work in most cases.  If a person has a lot of testing time they can try a lot of different options, but with runs so limited for most of us maybe going with something less risky might have a higher chance of a good return.

Doc there is an Air Inlet ("scoop") Size Calculator here if you decide to go that route.  Get it up 6 inches or so from the body:

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bville-spreadsheet-index.html

c ya,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 23, 2007, 03:30:23 PM
I seem to remember the Rice Vigeant car had a problem when their inlet NACA turned into an "auto-bailer"( it sucked big time) when they put it at a point where the flow would have been separating behind their screen.....

A few pages back Sum you put up some pics of a few lakesters with scoops .....what was the one I commented on with no forward facing screen and what I assume was a periscope??


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on October 23, 2007, 04:04:32 PM
I seem to remember the Rice Vigeant car had a problem when their inlet NACA turned into an "auto-bailer"( it sucked big time) when they put it at a point where the flow would have been separating behind their screen

Yep that was one of the reasons I decided to not go with one and Hitz that one has a canopy similar to yours and had the inlet near where I think you want to put yours.

.............what was the one I commented on with no forward facing screen and what I assume was a periscope??

Yep a periscope:

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-2/449-2006.html

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: vintagemxr on October 24, 2007, 11:43:32 PM
oh , while I'm here ...more

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/Tankshotssep006.jpg?t=1189987383)
here they are again with a photo taken in September 06


This has to be my all time favorite set of pictures that portray the true and lasting spirit of LSR better than can ever be explained to anybody else.
This is the type of shot that should be made into a brass plaque for a suitable award for the few that might deserve it.

Jack is right on.  If a picture is worth a thousand words, that one is worth 50 years.  Could have been taken a few weeks ago or 50 years ago.  A true classic.  Pride, ingenuity, perseverance, resourcefulness, and friendship all in one picture; all the things that make motorsports a great hobby.  I'd buy a poster for the garage if one was available.

The whole Aussie belly tank thread is one of the best reads on the whole site.

Doug



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on October 25, 2007, 06:06:11 PM
I actually have this photo on my computer as a screen background. I've done a few presentations lately and it gets a few comments. Most people like the front of the tank where it looks like it has a nose and what look to be pointy teeth in a smiling mouth - they are the non car guys. The car guys think it's cool but don't really know what it is. The guys that get it are the ones to talk to.

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on October 25, 2007, 06:47:34 PM
I've finally worked out what it is, but not what I'm doing there
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on October 25, 2007, 08:56:53 PM
Towing it to the car show with "The Mongrel", a load of Youffs pulled up next to me at the lights. The 98 Commodore was dropped on it's guts, 18inch wheels were scraping, the bass-kicker a bit louder than a trick exhaust.

A prerequisite peroxide-blond roughie extended from the passenger window and yells, "what the F#@k is that"  pointing at the trailer load.
 
Protruding myself from Mongrel's window I yelled back - "Salt Lake Racer" - checking Da-Boys with reverse Baseball caps in the back seat (except we don't have Baseball here, so the caps extol allegiance to Bunnings Timber, Repco Auto Parts, or Danny's Burgers).

Momentary communication, established with an alien craft, about to end with the changing of traffic lights. Da-Boys were fascinated, but looking worried at The Mongrel (it tends to clear it's own path in crowded traffic).

Da-Boys consorted excitedly a question for roughie-mouthpiece, "how fast does it go"?
"Two Hundred and Ninety Eight..."  the thick bushy eyebrows raised to edges of the caps.

"M I L E S - P E R -  H O U R"   I yelled slow and clear, knowing full-well only two of these five kids knew what a "mile" is, and would argue the rest of their journey about a conversion to Kilometres.

Green-light, old Mongrel let forth a mighty groan and a plume of diesel smoke. Fully-Sic-Mate Commodore stayed still, Da-Boys gave a thumbs-up salute, and waited. I flipped the volume back up, catching the end of a Johnny song, "I'm gunna break free. Gunna break my rusty cage...  and run".

A few seconds later there was the noise I expected, the tuned strain of a backwards fart from a waste gate, consoling Da-Boys: they are indeed "Fully-Sic-Mate". Roughie's busy inspecting her painted claws, oblivious to Da-Boys: arms rapidly point at the Belly Tank and gesticulate wildly at each other. The arguement is on.

I love suburban Australia.


Title: what am I doing here...??
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 25, 2007, 09:21:41 PM
You’re there because of your pretty face Grumm. When Grumm was asked last week what he did on the car build he replied “ they make stuff , I make it work” he’s right but he also forgot to mention his role as the devils advocate.

For those who haven’t been there my sign off on the DLRA site is “Few understand what I’m trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why” it refers to those who do , and , don’t get it…..

When Lynchy says “those who “get” it “….he’s stating something that we all know well ….when  someone is checking out the car I can tell quickly by what they ask whether they’re on the inner or the outer …whether they “get it” .Early on when the Rev and I were still designing the car we’d show a photo of a P38 bellytank ( 50’s , purple not sure who’s) from the “Cox and Genat” book to people…..if they went “wow!,we knew that they got it……

I took the above photo and it always gets me too , I send it to people because it conveys the “buzz” that we get out of the whole thing….it was the night that we first took the car off the build jig and we were all pretty happy and feeling pretty pleased with ourselves…it also shows our up-to-the-minute engineering facilities .

To quote Jack ……” I think he gets it” :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on October 25, 2007, 10:01:12 PM
My Gawd, PJQ, that's the first time I have ever seen pussy fangs.

I don't think I'll ever turn the light on after seeing that.

Thanks for warning me.

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on October 25, 2007, 10:56:40 PM
No wukka's Freud,
I bang this keyboard with one good finger (one of the film crew flipped the lights on - surprised Pussy!!!)


Title: Tanks first outing
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 27, 2007, 06:31:09 PM
Early start yesterday morning, the car had been put on the trailer the night before and all that remained was to load up the tools , fuel ,water and other sundry bit and bobs and hit the road.Mangalore is about 60 miles north of Melbourne and it freeway all the way , I picked up the Colonel and we were on the way...some of you will be pleased to note that we played Dwight Yoakam's "Guitars , Cadillacs" most of the way there....

We had a few friends and family who rolled up to watch , mostly I think they were there to confirm their own suspicions .......camera's abounded , my 80 year old mum was there telling all who'd listen stories about me as a kid and monitoring the "coarse talk". The Reverend's name is "Dik" , my mother steadfastly refuses to call him that , she calls him Richard.. :wink:

There were about eight other cars there when we arrived as well as three bikes , the factory blown Vincent from Adelaide owned by the Penn's and Greg Watters with an R1 he just picked up still with grind marks on the tailpipe and lights from being flipped , Greg did a couple of runs around 250km/h(~158mph) .Spook had his Trumper there but wasn't entirely happy with the tune he had going and didn't get to wring it's neck but gee it looked a treat.Rod and Carol Hadfield were there with his new HAMBster  ,Brian Nicholson and the Moe boys, David Partridge with his indescribably violent sounding RX7 which I have renamed ( unofficially) as "Swearing Around Children" because no-one wants to hear it. Max Ellery was there with his Commodore he got in some runs around 120mph and was happy with what he's done with the car, there was a new streamliner sans bodywork with a Toyota twin cam 1600 that got a lot of attention owned by a Graeme who's surname I missed and a couple of cars with number plates on 'em.Graeme's streamliner was a little "wanting" in the electrical department , our Colonel , who's a Graham himself felt a kinship bond and got it sorted out , he's a genius. Sadly Norm Bradshaw who organised the booking of the airport and has run an early Mustang with a 499 that's gone about 210 til recently couldn't get his new car there due to engine management issues and a near disastrous fire the night before .Norm's new car is a late model Falcon dressed up as a taxi with a big block Ford and a turbo "big enough to put your head in " , still Norm had a good day and his booking didn't go to waste and I think the hat that got passed around covered him.

We got the tank off the trailer pretty quickly and put some juice in it , made a few checks and fired it up ...it sounded a bit rough and then started shutting down, fuel?? I changed the fuel filter as the tank is new and it had had a crumby one in it previously...turns out the MAP sensor wasn't properly plugged in...try again ,still a bit rough, oops , two leads were mixed up!!!!! , try again ...r,r,r,r,r...poop, is the battery flat? huh? we pull up PJQ's car next to it and get the jumpers out...this is embarrassing. The alternator is either dead or we've got a wiring problem...it takes the Colonel about three minutes to work out that there's a broken wire....it's sorted......now it starts , now it sounds good....we pushed it back to the start of the taxi-way that we're parked on ( on the way it runs over my foot and wrenches my hip....no-one noticed. :oops:) and I jump in and give it a little test , it REALLY goes!!!!!....roll it back and another little test. Right! , it's on. I get the suit on and we get ready , Greg Watters goes down and checks with the guys at the end of the taxi-way , we're on.  I get it down there and start struggling with the gear shift , if you bend your wrist inwards and hold it up near the right side of your chest where it feels like it has no strength then it is where our gear stick is.....grind , screech , grind , clunk... my leg is already tired.......a hand signal and I turn left out onto the runway .Rod Hadfield had said " just take your time and have a few looks at it all and find the rough bits before you get into it"....I'm in third and I can't tell where I am on the track ...I can't see the line , I can't even tell the grass from the rougher tarmac at the edge ...F#%&* it I think and give it some throttle ...it takes off ...ahh ,there's the line over there , man it's rough but the car is great , it wants to go straight , and fast .I see some cones and get on the brakes , well at least that's what they're called...I manage to get it back into second and get off the clutch and put all my strength into the brake pedal ...it slows enough to be able to swing around the cones ...I'm ah kind of excited at this point and have a little trouble getting my s#%* together ....off again this time I get it into fourth as I go past the end of the taxiway though I'm probably around 2000rpm , it's just chugging , apparently the radar trap that has been set up registers 119km/h( about 70) I turn at the other end and two things hit me ...I can barely breathe as the fumes are so strong in the cab and my legs are nearly shot from being tense and trying to work the pedals........I overshoot the turn off and pull up and pop the canopy.

Back at the pit we work out the fume problem and cut a little "smile" vent in the nose to pressurize the cab ,further work will need to be done to seal the body against the frame.The gear shift will need to be sweeter and there will need to be changes to the geometry and hydraulic ratios of the brakes and clutch.....but apart from that IT'S FANTASTIC....... :-D :-D :-D

The Rev suits up. After noticing that the cable mount of the gearshift looks fatigued( turns out I tacked it in position when I was setting it up and never ever went back, oops)we decide to get him to run in third only.......he does six passes and returns completely buzzed . I got back in and gave it a bit of curry , I'm too far over for the speed trap to register but I'm in fourth and well over three grand the runway has several really sharp bumps that are jarring ... I overshoot at the end despite turning it off and getting both feet on the brake pedal, when I finally do swing it around I flick the switch and it blasts off again , I might get to like this .when I get back in the temp gauge reads 200 , when we take the cowl off we realize she's thrown the belt.....we deal with that and send the Reverend out for another run, he canes it and comes back with a grin from ear to ear ....we were both thrilled.

Apart from a water leak from a dodgily installed sender( me) a gearbox oil leak ( a breather will help) and the fume problem it went astoundingly well.

more will follow.

here's a shot of the car with PJQ in the background ,The Colonel , the Reverend in his Hedgash overalls and me in the suit...gee we had fun.
(http://lh6.google.com.au/KirstyKirstyKlightyKatrina/RyL2a70wg2I/AAAAAAAABmY/KTF1hbyc_MU/IMG_2228.JPG?imgmax=800)
the new nose vent , Goggles pushing , Amber( Lady Hedgash) and Michelle( I play in her fella's band)
(http://lh4.google.com.au/KirstyKirstyKlightyKatrina/RyL3Gb0whFI/AAAAAAAABoU/q3KKQ3nrbjI/IMG_2243.JPG?imgmax=800)

Animal and his Mrs , Carol Hadfield ,Rod , the Col. and the Dr.
(http://lh3.google.com.au/KirstyKirstyKlightyKatrina/RyL2JL0wgvI/AAAAAAAABlg/s5dyUorgsCU/IMG_2221.JPG?imgmax=800)

The Rev zooms by...

(http://lh4.google.com.au/KirstyKirstyKlightyKatrina/RyL3Ib0whGI/AAAAAAAABoc/k8WnpweiNrc/IMG_2244.JPG?imgmax=800)



Title: Village people??
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 27, 2007, 07:58:37 PM
Goggles I have no problems with you as an aluminium welder, I blame myself in fact for what must have been miscommunication on my behalf when I said weld together the aluminium petrol tank it must have sounded like turn it into a colander...
Oh that's OK Rev.... I probably wasn't listening properly ...more likely I was staring at your get-up......you did look rather fetching though.....

(http://lh4.google.com.au/KirstyKirstyKlightyKatrina/RyL3mb0whSI/AAAAAAAABqA/PhC42F_FC0M/IMG_2256.JPG?imgmax=640)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on October 27, 2007, 09:10:30 PM
Notes and pictures become articles, articles become books, books become films, and most of them are soon gone.
This is the adventure of a lifetime and beyond.
It is a real study of how it is done rather than how to do it.
The lesson is the real value.
Thanks :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hitz on October 28, 2007, 01:09:52 AM


  Congrats to the Rev, Doctor and the Col,

    First ride and it even wants to go straight! Looks like you all were having a good time at the airport.

   There will be plenty of people cheering for you this coming March from the States because of the way you kept us up to date on this forum.

   Good on you! :-D

   Harvey



Title: here , shake my hand
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 28, 2007, 01:22:48 AM
Colonel Grumm took this shot after I'd just gone for a twenty yard test roll...it'd been a few years coming this moment , for the uninitiated it's Dr Goggles on the left and Reverend Hedgash on the right....with his back turned is Ben "emu Ben!" James who runs an old style Kwaka Z1 and a Duke Darmah ,he's an old mate of mine who I talked into going to the lake when we first got started ....on the way home that first year Ben said  " you know Stew ( I'm James Stewart , they all call me Stew') I only came because I told I would , you know it' cost a fair bit and even up til the last day I was really wondering whether it was worth it"... I gave Ben the sort of " what's your point" look and said ..."and?"....Ben said , "well even if you die Stew , I'm comin' back next year!"...he loves it.....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/DSC_1525.jpg?t=1193552014)

there'll be more



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on October 28, 2007, 06:47:47 AM
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/Tankinaction.jpg)

Shots of other cars at the Mangalore salt teaser can be found over here...
http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=698


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on October 28, 2007, 09:51:02 AM
Hey guys you finally turned a wheel!!!  I just can't hardly wait myself.  You guys have come a long ways and I can just imagine all of the smiles that must have been on your faces.

Quote
getting both feet on the brake pedal

Sounds like it might be time to get a chute on that car,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rex Schimmer on October 28, 2007, 01:12:30 PM
ABSOLUTLY FANTASTIC!!!! The car is "sooo bitchen!" and it runs!! Congrates to you and your efforts. As Hinz says we will all have you in mind come March. Best of luck! and again congratualtions on getting it done and wheels turning!!

Rex


Title: Mangalore report
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 28, 2007, 05:48:44 PM
Fantastic day, went over to the shed yesterday and both of us were still smiling about it.

Three things that were in the back of my mind that needed to be proven on the car were the steering, vibration issues (after witnessing Wazavoodoo's short season in 2004) and engine issues at high revs.

The steering was very good in that it wanted to go in a straight line and any adjustment was responsive in a very predictable and positive way. The turning circle was large as expected but small enough to be able to U-turn on the runway without assistance or going over onto the gravel which is probably the ideal balance. Looks like a grader turning the way they fold over with the 30 degree castor. Our new front hubs proved them selves happily true too.

Good news about vibration is that there wasn't any discernible. The VN V6  is stock and hasn't been blueprinted or anything, just a minor porting by the Colonel and an extra throttle slapped on. I am sure our earlier option of the Buick V6 could have been less smooth as it didn't have the balanced shaft or roller rockers as standard..)

At high rev's it just wanted to keep going (as did we) but knowing there was an end to the track with an active runway going crossways with planes landing made us keep the horses in the back paddock until March. No fuel starvation issues were apparent so our plumbing, anti cavitation tank, fast flow filter and pump were all up to scratch.

It also sounded great! Definately a V6 with that odd rhythm but with a lovely mean note which someone described like an old prop plane which I kind of liked.

It therefore passed the major tests we needed.

Things we need to look into:

As mentioned by the Doc, gear selection, fumes getting into the cabin, and brakes (not such an issue at Gairdner!).

Getting in and out of the car was a bit of a squeeze (both of us putting on weight...) and so a seat redesign is in order.

Simple things like practicing the technique of getting the seatbelts on and correctly adjusted so that we don't spend too long in our race suit and thermals and can concentrate on the run more.

We also learnt a bit about just getting the car on and off the trailer which will help our trailer design still on the drawing board.


On Mangalore:

The track itself is probably about as perfect as you would want for a test day. It is long and smooth enough to check all that you'd want to check, but short enough (and rough enough) so that it isn't about setting records. "Self Limiting" was the term Steve Barnett used when I described it to him and I think that's a perfect description of the site.

I think this is an important point that if we continue with Mangalore (and I absolutely think we should) that it is seen as a test day only and for DLRA members only. Otherwise we'll have every dickhead with their off the shelf fast car out there doing burnouts very quickly, insurance problems, and worse waiting queues of gawd knows how long.

As it was it was a very friendly day of have a fiddle, take it out for a trundle and see if it worked come back for a blurt and another twiddle.

Thanks so much for all involved in organising the day, especially Norm who I am sure will surpass the current teething pains.

Reverend H+
EGL Mangalore 132kph (in third)





Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on October 28, 2007, 10:23:04 PM
Doc Goggle's Mum.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/ProudMum.jpg)
She's real proud of the tank and was rambling about what it'll do at the salt, eyeing-off the large bag of Mexican Chilly corn chips I was holding.

Devouring them like a school kid who's not allowed to have sweets - the coughing started - face red as a new Chev block, the orange foam ear plugs popped out like Champers corks, and she was leaning forward - arms waving in the air - fists clenching handfuls of CC's. Thank Christ Goggle's sister and the other girls were there to administer resuscitation. I was glared at - tried and found guilty - slinking away, leaving the evidence on the picnic table.

Later, sitting with Club Animal in his jocks (whisky-cola mixer in hand), we watched the tank bounce along the runway. Animal let fly a commentary on each run that would make a Digger blush. She'd nod or frown in response, taking it in her stride.

"That sheila's tough as a girder-bender" my old Pops would've said in compliment.
Sorry about feeding Chilly Chips to your Mum.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on October 29, 2007, 06:02:38 AM
congrats---all around---sounds like a very sucessful firt run outing---did you let your mom cristen the tank?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on October 29, 2007, 07:28:54 AM
Part of the value of the test was the learning process that had all the right stuff go wrong.
None of it was beyond your ability to fix it, get in some seat time, and identify some things that you want to improve on.
Welcome to the forevers, and realize that such excellent reporting is of substantial value for others that ranges from shifter installation to Mexican chip distribution.
I bet a more complete diet review will be part of the "Pit Tootsie"  pre-event maintenance in the future.
It is good to not make the same mistake the first time, but it is better to be able to fix it easy, because you are going to do it anyway.:wink:



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 29, 2007, 08:17:36 AM
Part of the value of the test was the learning process that had all the right stuff go wrong.
None of it was beyond your ability to fix it, get in some seat time, and identify some things that you want to improve on.
Welcome to the forevers, and realize that such excellent reporting is of substantial value for others that ranges from shifter installation to Mexican chip distribution.
I bet a more complete diet review will be part of the "Pit Tootsie"  pre-event maintenance in the future.
It is good to not make the same mistake the first time, but it is better to be able to fix it easy, because you are going to do it anyway.:wink:

Now , be nice everyone because although she's 80 she's an SMSaholic and she watches this site as well ( Hi Mum)...there was one revealing moment when we were watching some footage that my cousin shot on the Rev's big vid cam...he was in my mum's car and after I'd pulled over because of the fume-out I could hear her on the tape saying " ...and he doesn't need that with his lungs..." god love her  :wink: She's always expressed disappointment that I dropped out of university to play rock and roll but this bellytank thing has been a Phd in life and I think she "gets it".

Jack is on it ...we had an incredibly successful outing ...nothing cut it short , we had a chance to do enough driving to be able to nail things that HAVE to change and also to see things that are sufficient as they are.I'm not a "polisher" and am more interested in making this thing kick than shine...there are certain aspects of the car that I'm sure were a bit of an eye-opener for some people there and I don't mean in the usual sense . This whole thing has been a learning experience and there is nothing in our car that we took for granted , nothing that we copied without understanding and nothing that we did because we were told to do it that way, we argued and discussed every bit of it.That said , we will of course suffer some because of our stubborn refusal to "stand in line" and how much will be difficult to quantify ,likewise it will be difficult to measure the advantages that some of our ingenuity has got us . In the end it will be crap or OK , it won't be sensational , let's be realistic ,Jack Kelly's tank owns the record for E/GL at 236 and some , he has an SBC that will get close to 9 grand am I right and he didn't start doing this yesterday...One day our tank might crack 220 , that would be a great day I'd reckon . Looking at it another way the early model V6's we are using at the moment are really really cheap....it'd be great to be able to make a reliable "2 ton" car using stock bottom ends .. we can get 'em for the cost of a set of new plugs , a fan belt , 3 gallons of fuel and an oil change...That's achievable with a stock diff, 28inch tires and a standard gear box......beyond that we need the power, revs and gearing that costs the sort of money we don't have. The late model motor has plenty of power and revs but it will be a long time before there are affordable hop-up bits for it and it is a complex piece of kit that will be better left "unopened" for a while I suspect.

Right now we have something that means a mountain to us, it goes , we love how it looks and although we're human and everyone loves a bit of attention we're out to impress ourselves  for the time being .We are overwhelmed by the response that the car has got and it is a real buzz to have received so much good will from so many experienced and respected people but deep down we started this before we knew much about it , looking back our aims were pretty humble but they were closer to the mark than our estimates of the time , money and involvement that it has taken and yet dwarfed by the reward and we ain't got to the real bit yet.

Throw your self help books , your motivational tapes , your "goal orientated " aims out the window and design and build your own landspeed vehicle people it'll change you , don't race other people , race yourself ....there's no point cheating.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: gazza414 on October 29, 2007, 03:21:53 PM
Many congrads Stewie and Rev...looks like it is all coming together.. and the car looks fast...

pretty bumpy that air strip hey :?


Title: Re: Here shake my hand
Post by: grumm441 on October 29, 2007, 10:48:23 PM
I look at that picture and keep seeing a Pink Floyd album cover
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 30, 2007, 03:16:35 AM
To Sum, Harv, Jack, and all the other OS landracers,

Wish you were here.

rH+


Title: Photo
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 30, 2007, 03:29:56 AM
Actually I should tell the story about this shot. As staged as the original looks it actually wasn't. The good Lady Hedgash was videoing Dr Go in the car as he gave it a few test spurts of about 20m. He jumped out to suit up and that was when he shook my hand.

Amber had just shut down the camera and missed the hand shake and yelled at us to do it again. I yelled back that we don't re-enact scenes and the discussion went well on into the trip home.

It turns out that when the Colonel rocked up the next day he had taken this shot with his still camera. Wow, we thought, that's a keeper and legit too, it is the actual moment of shaking the hand at knowing it works after 4 years.

I like it so much I am going to turn it into a painting.

Rev H+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on October 30, 2007, 05:28:49 AM
NOTE TO AMBER :
Don't worry about missing the movie shot, I expect it will be often repeated. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on October 30, 2007, 09:13:00 AM
To Sum, Harv, Jack, and all the other OS landracers,

Wish you were here.

rH+

I sure hope to be one of these days.  Can I be on the pit crew?? 

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 30, 2007, 05:35:00 PM
Sum, you are already on the pit crew.

If you rock up down under, we will put you up in Melbourne and transport you to the lake.

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on October 30, 2007, 06:24:25 PM
Sum, you are already on the pit crew.

If you rock up down under, we will put you up in Melbourne and transport you to the lake.

rH+

You'd better be careful, I got a passport picture taken the other day.  This year???????

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 30, 2007, 07:20:42 PM
No, you'd had better be careful, it will be bushfire season and there will be plenty of slashing to be done...

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on October 30, 2007, 08:08:36 PM
I may be talking out of turn, overstretching things a bit, but at Mangalore I reckon we had a touch of what it was like at early meets in So Cal. No records were set, the timer didn't work properly, only eight vehicles ran - but Subaru happened that will never be repeated.

Machinery is easy to understand; from the scratch-together tank on these pages to the priceless 1955 Johnny Penn Vincent Black Lightning LSR special. And the people, from club founders, to little kids plonked in the driver seat by eager dad, the mixing assuring a continuum of those that "get it".

Then there's the spirit. It really kicked-in when a bloke showed up with a partly finished Streamliner. Graham is clearly a "loner". No one knew him or the project. Friendly but quiet, he wouldn't ask for help, and doesn't care much for this Internet stuff. He and his wife drove through the night from Adelaide (10+ hours on the road). The trailer loaded with a car skeleton and parts.

Any time you passed his pits, there's someone tinkering alongside him. You check out the his work, discuss this or that, start helping  - it's obvious there's lots to do - pretty soon, you're sweatin' your arse off, getting this beast ready for the first ever run.

And did it run! Keep an eye out for this one.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/GLiner.jpg)

Norm, the event organiser - despite his car toasting in a shed fire the day before - was happy as a pig in mud. "Mate, this is what it's supposed to be like" he said, watching Hadfield's jalopy and Moe Boys line up for impromptu drags.

The day ended with ear-to-ear grins on every dial: Moe Boys XA Falcon - Mad Max model - unleashed for ten minutes of high-rev burnouts (not on salt tyres).

Getting Graham's liner strapped to the home made trailer and sending them on their way, I was alone, soaking-in a golden sunset over the small planes and the tower, nestled among the foothills of Victoria's Highlands. "Get the camera" I thought. Nah, you can't photograph what I'm feeling.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on October 30, 2007, 08:49:42 PM
Sum

Be careful if you come over! It will end up being a round Australia trip. There are members all the way around the outside of the country + quite a few in the middle. If you do get over here we will book you in for some accommodation in Brisbane + get you in at one of the DLRA (Qld chapter) BBQ / BS / Bench racing sessions. It would be nice to have a guest speaker!

PS - I'm sure more than one car could use an extra crew member. If you come over 6/12/18 months in advance you could do a bit of work on the Jag.

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on October 31, 2007, 12:05:21 AM
Now that you have worked so hard to " Get It", you got it, and don't ever let it expire. :wink:


Title: In for a look
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 31, 2007, 08:59:18 AM
Ok enough of the love fest.....I took the water tank off this afternoon to have a look at a few things .The oil leak it turns out was partly the diff breather , partly the diff bung (oops, not very tight ) and some from the gearbox...The fuel fumes that I copped at the end of one of the runs seem to have been from the fuel tank breather which has no valve on it , I think it has "sloshed" as i backed off and being a fairly  fine tube that turns down rather quickly I think it has just blown some juice out to where it hit the tail-pipe...that'll have to be changed . The gear shift is going to get redesigned , the present shifter has morse cables and works in a cross pattern , as it turns out the side to side movement is too difficult to make and there isn't really enough room to do it properly....After checking out some of the photo's on Sum's site I think it is a toss up between two completely separate levers or a very narrow "H" . If I make two levers from shallow channel and a flat stick that will fit in the channel so it can tilt from side to side selecting one or the other I should be able to make it work.The brakes are a bit of an issue which will most likely be fixed by making the brake pedal longer , I allowed a lot of room for travel  which it doesn't need so it can be longer which will give a bit more stopping power. Apart from those issues I didn't find anything that was broken or looking like it was about to break , nothing burnt or rubbed , no cracks around the rear superstructure ( and it sure got some heavy thumps...airborne anyone????) so it was a dream run really and I'll be the first to admit it had as much to do with good luck as good management . The next six months will be spent getting the trailer built , compiling spares and doing a proper methodical tear-down and rebuild , checking everything , threads , clearances , fluid volumes , electrical connections , cooling system fittings getting the body fit neater and tighter .Having had such a neat first test we haven't got any excuses now .
Sum
Be careful if you come over! It will end up being a round Australia trip. There are members all the way around the outside of the country + quite a few in the middle. If you do get over here we will book you in for some accommodation in Brisbane + get you in at one of the DLRA (Qld chapter) BBQ / BS / Bench racing sessions. It would be nice to have a guest speaker!

PS - I'm sure more than one car could use an extra crew member. If you come over 6/12/18 months in advance you could do a bit of work on the Jag.
Lynchy

Now , Sum, people in Queensland are a bit like people from your Deep South ,you might never get to leave.... there's Staytie, Lynchy, Don Noble( hot Nissans and classical music! go figure :?) , Bob Ellis ( who's really a Kiwi) and more I've overlooked I'm sure but they're an "interesting " mob......As for working on Jag's I'd take the easy way out and devote your life to ending war for all time , it'd be much simpler. :wink:
Then there's the spirit. It really kicked-in when a bloke showed up with a partly finished Streamliner. Graham is clearly a "loner". No one knew him or the project. Friendly but quiet, he wouldn't ask for help, and doesn't care much for this Internet stuff. He and his wife drove through the night from Adelaide (10+ hours on the road). The trailer loaded with a car skeleton and parts.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/DSC_1545.jpg)

keen to see how this guy goes , interestingly the Colonel said he was an insurance assessor.....not a trapeze artist or a bounty hunter , a fireman or a jet pilot not an engineer  or mechanic ..this man deals with crashed cars , and there's his wife with him while he climbs into a piece of scaffolding which he wants to pilot to 200 miles per hour ,a mixture of ingenuity , persistance and faith and a fascination with doing something different , his own way.

As you were men. :wink:


Title: Re: In for a look
Post by: Sumner on October 31, 2007, 09:29:55 AM
...................After checking out some of the photo's on Sum's site I think it is a toss up between two completely separate levers or a very narrow "H" ................

I found some more pictures and will e-mail them to you today.

Getting a chance to do the run the other day might of saved you a year at the lake.  It will be nice to know that you got these issues worked out and that there wasn't anything real major.

c ya,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on October 31, 2007, 10:18:15 AM
What type of movement are you wanting to duplicate at the tranny ?
We know how the human works, but how about the other end.
How about a picture of the transmission ?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 31, 2007, 10:33:54 AM
thanks to Sum for this pic, instead of what we have here I have extended the actual shift shaft and put the tag on the end of that...to move the point of connection out wide , which is what they seem to be trying to do here, I have supported the whole arrangement with a gantry, if not identical our box is very similar to this...( I'm , er , at work at the moment so I can't access my photo's)                                                                                                                           (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvilleother/Shifters-5.jpg)

extending the shaft rather than the lever means I can support it at the other end which they can't do here however my manufacturing tolerances probably mean we're on level pegging....the cables make our box work fine the issue is the amount of room in the cab , which is even worse when you put a person in there :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on November 04, 2007, 09:37:21 PM
If you can put a floor shiffter on the tranny----I have seen a good shifter made out of a long rod and a big door or gate hinge at the back and a side stick on the rod in the cockpit---much like a big COE (lorry?)  truck


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on November 04, 2007, 10:15:06 PM
If you can put a floor shiffter on the tranny----I have seen a good shifter made out of a long rod and a big door or gate hinge at the back and a side stick on the rod in the cockpit---much like a big COE (lorry?)  truck

Hey I sent him that one:

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvilleother/page%209.html

It was good talking to you today,

Sum


Title: this is a stick up
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 05, 2007, 06:03:30 AM
....I spent some time in the shed yesterday....it was freezing cold and I got jack of it pretty quick.....so I went and had a sleep on the couch...first time I've done that in a while ,it was a luxury that just seemed right ..started on some ideas for the shifter just to make a basic H pattern shift......One thing I hadn't considered til I read Sparky's post was changing the gearbox end of the equation so I could just keep the shift we have .....but that could be a little complicated , and at the same time introduce a few more places where I'd get play that won't help with smooth shifts. Because of that and the amount of space available in the cab I'm leaning more and more toward the two sticks idea.We just don't have much room anywhere , the water tank sits on top of the gearbox , there's the exhaust , the floor , the bell-housing ....well, you know how it is....I'll be back. :wink:


Title: Re: this is a stick up
Post by: Sumner on November 05, 2007, 09:51:47 AM
....I spent some time in the shed yesterday....it was freezing cold and I got jack of it pretty quick.....so I went and had a sleep on the couch...first time I've done that in a while ,it was a luxury that just seemed right ..started on some ideas for the shifter just to make a basic H pattern shift......One thing I hadn't considered til I read Sparky's post was changing the gearbox end of the equation so I could just keep the shift we have .....but that could be a little complicated , and at the same time introduce a few more places where I'd get play that won't help with smooth shifts. Because of that and the amount of space available in the cab I'm leaning more and more toward the two sticks idea.We just don't have much room anywhere , the water tank sits on top of the gearbox , there's the exhaust , the floor , the bell-housing ....well, you know how it is....I'll be back. :wink:

Enjoy your nap.  Laying in bed is were I get some of my best and worst ideas.  I like the one with the regular shifter on the side with Morse cables.  Not enough room for that?  I think I understood where you were going with the idea you e-mailed me, but I'm not sure if I fully understood it.

c ya,

Sum


Title: This is a stick up ,
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 05, 2007, 05:28:09 PM
here's a shot of the gearbox end of things....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/PB060092.jpg)

here's a view looking forward on the shift side it shows how the widest point is the firewall and where the exhaust is....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/PB060099.jpg)

next is the footwell , looking at the throttle pedal....normally when the car is being driven there's a human in here...in fact that's the kind of view they get...

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/PB060102.jpg)

finally here's me sitting in it as you can see it's kind of squishy, couldn't say for certain but it looks like the Rev is trying to tighten some nuts :?

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/PA270074.jpg)

so , that gives you an idea of what I've been complaining about.Sum if I had the Rev's drawing skills I would sketch the idea I was telling you about .....but I don't and that would only make it more confusing........

Today is a holiday here ....Melbourne Cup day ....big horse race...well the horses are normal size but ...you know what I mean... :wink:





Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on November 05, 2007, 06:12:30 PM
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/temp-pictures/A-belly%20tank-1.jpg)   

Ok explain what is going on here now.  I assume the two bottom arrows point to the shifting shafts on the side of the transmission.  I can see where the left one is hooked to something and is the right one hooked to the rod with the heim joint or something behind it.  Did you have a picture of the shifter that is by your chest in the car???  I didn't see that. 

Is that rust I see, you haven't even been out on the salt yet!!

c ya,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 05, 2007, 06:22:34 PM
Left one is hooked to the same type of heim jointed shaft as the right one, just facing down instead of up so they don't foul each other..., there is an anchor point next to the clutch slave . There is a small spigot going into the end of each shaft to keep them "on axis" .And yes I know it's not all painted at the moment Sum....that will be taken care of in the teardown that will be happening soon .......jeez , some people pay for that kind of patina :wink: :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 19, 2007, 07:28:21 AM
The weekend just gone we made a few changes to the driving position . We changed the angle of the steering column so that the steering wheel is higher and moved the brake pedal slightly to one side . The steering wheel had been off centre by about a quarter of an inch , several factors had contributed to that and although it seems insignificant it was one of the reasons that sitting  in the seat holding the wheel with the harness on something "didn't feel right " . We cut the seat down , removing material from the sides where it touched the back of our arms ( and made it difficult to operate the fire system) and moved the bottom mounts ever so slightly .Tiny changes , but now when you are in it everything feels "in line"  and roomier....

The rough version of the new gearshift is done . The intention is to put a lock-out on first gear and then have a spring which pulls the 1st/2nd lever against it .This means in order to select 2nd gear you will need to hold it there , once you let it go it will return to neutral avoiding the chance of jamming the box by using the 3rd/4th lever while the car is in gear.... In the pits we can flip up the lock out and the 1st/2nd lever will stay in first for driving in the pits( yes , we are allowed to do that here :wink:) .

We have just been reading a worrying story about oil starving in our motor at sustained high revs , anyone have suggestions for the early 232.?......

Thanks all


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on November 19, 2007, 12:15:21 PM
................
We have just been reading a worrying story about oil starving in our motor at sustained high revs , anyone have suggestions for the early 232.?......

Thanks all

Sounds like you have made some good changes and the run at the airfield paid off in big ways towards a better car for the salt.

On the oil thing we had that problem the first year with a stock small block Chevy block.  We pumped the oil to the top end faster than it was returning and ran out of oil pressure on our two high speed runs just going to the end of the 3 mile..  I know that isn't what you have, but what we did might help you.  Hooley had installed screens for drain back that were restricting the flow there.  Also the other drain back holes in the block had casting residue around them so slowed drain back.  The new block has been cleaned up at the drain back from the upper end locations and we run a bigger pan now and also an oil accumulator.  So far with this combination we haven't had oiling problems.  If the course was longer maybe we would, but now there is enough oil available and the return has been speeded up that we can run the whole 5 miles and still have pressure.

Hope this might help a little,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 20, 2007, 03:23:24 AM
Well , I had an inkling that lower than atmospheric pressure in the crankcase would help , and I spent some time talking to someone who's had success with these motors before , he was very helpful and that was his suggestion ,and ,true to my suspicions ,he had a solution that was more grocery store than jewellery store....that's what we like...

So ,off I went to a wrecking yard...where I scavenged a reed valve and some stainless tubing from an air-pump/injection anti pollution set-up from a 323/Laser ...these are not what you would call hotly sought after items ......a quick look at a system built for a Clevo and a coldie courtesy of the owner and all I had to do was tell some stories......listen to some told by another weird pest/home creator type like myself and I was on my way......Everytime I go to Bill's yard I wish i'd taken my camera because I always see little bits and pieces , knuckles , pivots . STUFF that I can use to make what I've already built better... most of the stuff I'm talking about is scrap , rubbish that lies in the open ....sometimes , sometimes when I manage to get his imagination to fire ( it needs a bit of aerostart usually but it does work)..he 'll go on a hyperactive scramble around , under and over in an effort to show me the different examples of how something is done.....but on the really rare occasion I get to see inside the "inner sanctum" a freight container with his booty from swap meets....Methanol injection manifolds from the fifties , Ford GT stuff , blowers , Flathead performance gear(?)...usually a visit to this container is preceded by a warning accompanied by a waving index finger held above his shoulder as you are following him ..." this isn't for sale".......

Now this fella I mentioned who'd had experience with the V6's we're using also had some great advice about our harness and arm restraints.....all very useful and garnered from experience ...nothing to do with proving his importance just good helpful considered expert advice , it won't go unheeded.

Thanks Jack. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on November 27, 2007, 10:58:26 AM
ooooh!!!!!  Dr. Googles---I like that---"more grocery store than Jewelry store"!!!!!----please hand draw a schematic of the system you are cooking up---I assume a scavage system?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 30, 2007, 03:34:12 PM
.will get to that soon...along with our ever so slightly unusual solution ( some would say clunky ,over-complicated and possibly prehistoric) solution for the gearshift.................have been caught up this week working on the raod-going part of the fleet... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on December 01, 2007, 09:31:58 AM
Ahhh!!!  Dr. Goggels---adressing the ever present desire to drive to the grocery store instead of walking---especially by the Missus!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 02, 2007, 06:27:07 PM
Yesterday was tank day , it's only 3 months 'til speedweek so it was time to make a list.....first up we have the good Reverend Professor taking questions as to the priorities

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/PC020004.jpg)

on the list is "seal firewall"....a bad dose of fumes at the airstrip T&T day highlighted the need to get a nice tight seal( every sea-lion's looking for one o' them) where the body meets the firewall....this wasn't going to an easy thing to remedy the way things were . The lower body is a tub that includes the front and floor skin all the away to the rear axle . Due to the difficulty of measuring the gap we needed to fill , the ever present hassle of having to remove the tub when we wanted to get to the lower part of the engine bay and the fact that we were going to kill each other if we had to argue one more time about the way that the tie rods go through holes in the body when The Dr thinks they should be vertical slots we cut it in half. Huh?....Yes, we went the whole hog and lopped the tub in half at the firewall......now it's easy to get it off when we need to get at the bottom of the bay...the front part really never needs to come off...this will make several lingering jobs a whole lot easier.....here , the Reverend tapes the line ....in the past a certain someone has cut the wrong side of a tape line , we had "words" over that one I'm tellin' ya!!

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/PC020007.jpg)

and again.....

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/PC020006.jpg)

then after the 'wigs had done their bit the grunt steps in and executes the precision part of the job.....

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/PC020008.jpg)

then these nice little bits were fabbed up to finally shut the gap.........

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/PC030011.jpg)
we'll probably end up "gooping" every little remaining  gap before shutting it up because the front part of the tub won't need to be removed during speedweek....

next up we have a video of the prototype gear shift. There is a manual lockout , it has two positions , in one you can select 2nd with the RH lever and then 3rd/4th with the LH lever , flip the lock-out over and you can select 1st and 2nd while 3rd and 4th are locked in Neutral.We don't need to 1st to start  2nd is fine....I intend to spring load the RH lever so to keep it 2nd it will need to be held , when you let it go it will return to neutral...in the second mode it will be able to stay in first for taxiing and allow you too keep both mits on the wheel at low speed because the high castor makes for some very heavy steering....The lock-out will not need to be touched on the track , only when you need to use first gear.....it needs a tidy up and to be built a little more solidly I will also build a panel to cover the lot ,but it works and has achieved the aim of getting more room and being easier to operate.... ....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/th_PB280197.jpg) (http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/?action=view&current=PB280197.flv)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 02, 2007, 11:46:52 PM
Nice job!!  Has he ever hit you with that pointer???  Kind of looks like something one of my grade school teachers decided to use on me a couple times.  Also where is the full face shield we had talked about??

It looks like the run on the airstrip is really paying off and should assure a lot higher chance of success on the lake bed.

c ya,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 03, 2007, 12:04:00 AM
.......two things....

I was going to make a crack about the vice-grips ....seeings how they were flavor of the month on the Marlo Treit thread......and I was also going to highlight the safety gear I was using....jeez sum at least there's a guard on the grinder....... :roll:

in that shot of the Rev ...i was just about to throw a spit-ball at him but then the bell rang ........



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 03, 2007, 08:01:59 AM
.......two things......and I was also going to highlight the safety gear I was using....jeez sum at least there's a guard on the grinder....... :roll: .....

I will have to give you credit for the ear protection.  Good idea as you won't hear the explosion when the grinding wheel explodes  :evil: ,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on December 03, 2007, 07:11:20 PM
Quote
Also where is the full face shield we had talked about??

When I was last working on Big Gaz's Jag (sorry for not posting updates on this website, I've been posting them on the DLRA site instead - and you all read our forum, don't you!!) he had me grinding the fire bottle mounts with the die grinder.

So - full overalls, gloves, hat, full face shield, my glasses, earmuffs, condom..... and two weeks later I'm still picking shards of metal out of skin!

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 03, 2007, 09:00:15 PM
[.................he had me grinding the fire bottle mounts with the die grinder..................I'm still picking shards of metal out of skin!
Lynchy

For me to use a die grinder I have to be desperate and the very last option for just the reason you stated.  I get the shop vac. going right after I use it and still get the slivers,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 03, 2007, 09:39:09 PM
..........die grinder swarf is the worst , and if it's stainless it's da worstest....in the end you wish it would get infected so at least it would come out quicker....what's really great is having a piece in a fingertip when you've got a gig( i play guitar)....it's like an electric shock every time you use that finger..... :-o..ouchie wa wa.....

Ok , I'm suitably chastised.......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 04, 2007, 06:19:00 PM
I dunno if it's just because It is one of my posts but I've noticed in the post at the top of this page that the word "CRACK" is highlighted in green and underlined ....when I ran a cursor over it a little ad popped up that said "...need a personal loan?"........aw gee come on :roll: I've already got an expensive habit .



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on December 04, 2007, 08:35:10 PM
Doc, must be an Aussie thing, no green crack or loan promises on my screen.  Ya gotta spend your money somehow, it just as well be on racing, personally I spend mine on racing, drinking and women.... the rest of it I waste...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 04, 2007, 09:59:49 PM
..............I spend mine on racing, drinking and women.......

Probably not in that order  :-o .

Hey Doc I've been riding you a little and haven't really given you the credit you deserve for the design of the shifter.  Good work and get me pictures of all of it when you get a chance so I can add it to the page on my site about remote shifters. Way to go.

I'm still going to PM you about the spring on the shifter though,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 05, 2007, 04:39:32 AM
..............I spend mine on racing, drinking and women.......

Probably not in that order  :-o .

Hey Doc I've been riding you a little and haven't really given you the credit you deserve for the design of the shifter.  Good work and get me pictures of all of it when you get a chance so I can add it to the page on my site about remote shifters. Way to go.

I'm still going to PM you about the spring on the shifter though,

Sum


order in the court.......

Ok Sum you have a choice of which line you  join, they are of equal length it just depends on what you want to do when you get to the front ....ride me ...or not offer me credit....so , who do ya wanna stand behind ...the boss types or the bank types??? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Today I got started on the home-style vacu-pan....welded a bung into one of the collectors....flared some stainless tube that was part of the booty that I collected and wended it( that's a word innit?) up through one of the few remaining spaces to where I'll put the valve on it....that tube is hard stuff..I had a go at it with my little tube bender and thought "nah , that's too useful to break on something I got for nothing".......so it got that old witches finger kind of look to it.......

I welded in the pretty little bits that the Rev made to shut up the frame?body/firewall junction......had to pump a bit of argon into a screw hole at one point when a ...er....bit of smoke appeared somewhere behind the bodywork....it's just the enamel we painted the frame with ....enough heat and it wants to flame...

Employing the scatter-brain approach that is yet to fail me ( some may differ) I also had a go at the piece of bodywork that was cut off the tub....I'm a little reticent to go for too high a degree of finish on this car for the time being because I know I'm going to be painting it more than a few times in the next couple of years and if I go the bleeding fingers effort now I know I'll be looking at it in April next year thinking " sheesh , why did I bother" every nick I fill will make the next scratch stand out more......right now as you may have noticed the car is in flat red( Piccardi...to be exact) anyone who thinks it would be better in gloss is welcome to come over when the big rub down starts ...all I can say is bring a sleeping bag and don' bring your phone because "she's got a bit of cellulite"


Hey Stainless, don't spend your money on women it's an insult to them ....get with the times ...give them the space to get a good paying job and let them spend their money on you , it's a liberating experience for everybody :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

dunno the exact source of this one but in should've been in the good book.......

The leader of the push he asked
"....would you let a woman keep you , and give up work for good"?

the bastard from the bush replied...

"bloody oath I would!"


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on December 05, 2007, 09:11:46 AM
It's the truth -- Nancy is going back to college right after first of the year to get training in a nice technical area of the medical field -- so that once I retire she can keep me in the manner I'm accustomed to being kept.  She's serious, too -- even though I'm hoping that when I "retire" we'll be well-off enough that we don't have to work again.

That feeling, however, sort of neglects the realities of land speed racing.  This ain't a cheap addiction. . .so I'm doing what I can to help her keep on target for that certificate in a couple of years.

Wait a minit -- this topic says "Australian Belly Tank".  What are we doing talking about my wife's plans?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on December 05, 2007, 03:32:19 PM
Hey Stainless, don't spend your money on women it's an insult to them ....get with the times ...give them the space to get a good paying job and let them spend their money on you , it's a liberating experience for everybody :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

I've been trying to get her work, but she has the regular expenses... nails, hair, shots....  :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 06, 2007, 02:05:40 AM
all is not lost...ala P .Newman....

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:idWoCd4l4A4e9M:http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/carenginecare/Pull.jpg

there's more than one way to skin a cat... some good tournaments out there

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:sfCEh3TCIPNgRM:http://www.talariaenterprises.com/images3/6272a.jpg

good money here...

http://hometown.aol.com/vixensmistress/images/fairhillhorseshowz.jpg

might get you here Stainless........

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ap_helmsley_dog_070829_ms.jpg

now , that'd subsidize some decent speeds :roll:

ok ...B.O.T


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on December 06, 2007, 05:16:43 PM
What amuses me are those that say they have never paid for sex...

Brother, let me tell you, you ALWAYS pay for sex...

Amen

Reverend H+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: frogpirate on December 06, 2007, 05:25:08 PM
The good Reverend posted:

"What amuses me are those that say they have never paid for sex...

Brother, let me tell you, you ALWAYS pay for sex..."

If you don't believe him, get divorced. You get to pay again retroactivly.  :x And again, and again, every month.

But I'm not bitter, no sirrie. Just don't ask me on the first of the month, m'kay?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 08, 2007, 11:16:21 PM
OK ....back  to job at hand( :roll:)..........Yesterday I altered the canopy on the car after considering the difficulty we would have in getting it open if the car were to find itself downside-up or even for that matter upside-down..It would seem likely that the canopy would be sprung and possibly torn off in such a violent accident but if not the car would need to be lifted clear off the ground in order to be righted .I say violent because of the dimensions of the car ...height v track-width .

I made some stainless pins with a hole for an R clip and put a compression-spring on each one to eject them when the clip is pulled .These pins are to replace the hinge pivots for the canopy. I will connect them with a piece of cable which will be accessible through the nose vent ......hope we never have to use 'em .

Top of the canopy is just below the front roll hoop, which is forward of the middle of the car.......upside down the car would be leaning nose up...
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/PA270048.jpg)

this shot shows the hinges ..this is an old shot certain details have changed ,the superstructure that supports the canopy is rudimentary here but the hinges are essentially the same.......

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/stewshots175.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on December 19, 2007, 08:39:10 PM
Guys keep up the great work-----I am thinking of re dooing my canopy---gives me soon good ideas


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 19, 2007, 09:15:52 PM
Hey Sparky
It was the Rev who spotted the Machi canopies ( which are about 5/8 thick)we used and realised we could cut the shape we were after out of them .....the Al strips are where we turned the sides down ever so slightly. Sumner has some great info on slumping and vac forming .  I'm sure you could find somewhere that sells plane parts or scraps them and has canopies that are scratched beyond usable condition....Then there is the option of contacting somebody who makes glider canopies....I'm sure the Rev will get on with more ideas......

Why don't you post a few shots of what you've already got because I'm not sure I've seen your canopy.

..... 8-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on December 19, 2007, 09:38:28 PM
will do---its just flat bent around the curve on the sides---profile on Sums pages


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 19, 2007, 09:51:21 PM
...................Why don't you post a few shots of what you've already got because I'm not sure I've seen your canopy.. 8-)

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-5/2211-2006.html

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 19, 2007, 10:04:26 PM
will do---its just flat bent around the curve on the sides---profile on Sums pages

Could you aim for a segment of a cone shape so it's narrower at the top ? That could still be formed from flat sheet.........


Title: Belly Tank Disc-o!!
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 29, 2007, 03:57:21 AM
been a little slack here at Ranchero tanko.....but there has been a little progress......I built the vacu-pan arrangement , and got it fitted up  , and today I got started on the  moon caps..........at least Ive started on the inner caps, the static ones.....First I made a compass arrangement out of a piece of 1" strap with holes drilled so I could mark out the necessary concentric circles with a scriber....in hindsight the photo would have looked better if the measurements corresponded with the part if the tire they were sitting on....
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/PC290102.jpg)

 and blazed away with the ol' jig-saw.......When I grow up I'll have a real nice band saw with a rotating table but since the discs are fixed and don't need to be balanced they'll be fine as they are , I gave them decent clearance so we could use stick on weights on the inside  of the rim and not be grazing them , a bit of a clean up , and these should look alright.......

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/PC290104.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 29, 2007, 03:52:42 PM
On the subject of Moon discs what are the suggestions for mounting?..........We're thinking of welding M6X1 nuts around the very perimeter of the rim so that the disc is flush with the very edge of the wheel , any thoughts  on this would be much appreciated.......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 1212FBGS on December 29, 2007, 05:40:52 PM
hey sparky
here is a link to a canopy maker we are using on peg leg craigs sidecar liner http://www.toddscanopies.com/  he was very responsive, quick to deliver, reasonably priced, and pretty nice stuff.... ya gonna do anything with that ugly Acura nose..?.. i mean on your lakester....
love ya
kent


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on December 31, 2007, 11:36:49 PM
Canopy--looks like this guy knows what he is doing---

Now if I cleaned up the Ratical's looks---why in the world would he want to be just another pretty face-- the way he looks now its hard to decide ---is his face or his RatzAzz UGLy'R---lol


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on December 31, 2007, 11:59:21 PM
hey sparky
here is a link to a canopy maker we are using on peg leg craigs sidecar liner http://www.toddscanopies.com/  he was very responsive, quick to deliver, reasonably priced, and pretty nice stuff.... ya gonna do anything with that ugly Acura nose..?.. i mean on your lakester....
love ya
kent

Those are really nice canopies.  I can't see how he can make them for what he is charging.

c ya,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 01, 2008, 04:33:11 PM
Looking at those prices and the costs I'd be surprised if they wouldn't have turned out as a viable option for us even with the freight down here...A huge amount of time went into the polishing let alone the building of our canopy and the irony was that we used the more scratched of the two candidates we had figuring we'd have a better one to use later...........I can't imagine this one breaking even if the cart went A.O.T.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 05, 2008, 07:52:16 AM
well , we've had a few days in a row on the 'tank and made a little progress , the moon discs and the inner discs took a bit of time...the rears had to be made in two pieces . This is them.....

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1050146.jpg)

we bought two types of outers , one set of the usual type Moon discs and then the Rev' saw some with a dimple in the middle of them which were exactly what he'd modeled when he did the original renders for the tank . The only problem was when we first tried the discs with the dimple they didn't fit because they were slightly concave and they hit the inner ring of the centers that we have in our wheels.....while pondering the problem it occurred to me that I could just "pop" them inside out...so I stuck them on the top of a garbage bin , gave them a bit of a shove and , hey presto they fitted just right .not only that but the part of the center that was in the way turned out to be the best way of mounting them......so instead of using Dzus , or welding nuts to the very outer rim of the wheels we drilled straight through the inner ring and welded stainless nuts on the inside of the center , put a countersink on them and it was done.They look like this..sweet and sour pork anyone?????

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1040110.jpg)

we also did some tidying up on cooling hoses but we'll save you the tedium of photo's there........................

We made air extractors for the side windows of the cab by cutting the perspex and heating it with a heat gun then using a beating dolly as a former to push the p'pex in to make a sort of "auto-bailer" shape.........thems lookem like dis...........

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1050139.jpg)


and finally we used the very tip of the bottom of the little bellytank that we halved to make our cowl and we made a scoop to go over the throttle bodies....it's not a tight fit before you all jump in and predict imminent doom.....and yes it will change but it will do for now .......

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1050136.jpg)

here it is again

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1050142.jpg)

 we also used the original filler for the bellytank as the body access for the fuel tank , more show than go but at least it's not one of those stickers you see on tuner cars.....

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1050143.jpg)

it's been hotter than blazes here...about 105 in your money.....not good for power tools , or even humans for that matter :wink: :wink: :oops: :| :-o



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on January 05, 2008, 07:50:31 PM
You guys have been busy----wish I were going to be there to watch you run!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 08, 2008, 07:05:21 PM
Thanks Sparky.

It is getting exciting now, only eight weeks to go...

Even if we break something on the first run, as long as the event is on and we are there and can relax in the beautiful outbackness of it all I'll be happy.

Hope to see you run one day too!

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 13, 2008, 06:18:42 AM
we built this....

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1130170.jpg)

so we could do this...

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/th_P1130174.jpg) (http://s227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/?action=view&current=P1130174.flv)

it needs a catch and a release system , the piece of insulated wire and vise grips used in the video probably won't suffice.....


Title: thrash time , March looms.....
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 21, 2008, 12:36:40 AM
Ok , boy did I get some action over the 'chute doors , much concerned comment ( no, not just you Jack :oops:)from either side of the Pacific as to
1./ How were the doors to be opened?
2./ What would secure them and prevent them from "flapping around" once they were open?
3./ would they clear the chute if the car was pointing in any direction other than the intended one?
4./where was the 'chute to be anchored?
5./ WTF were we thinking?...if we indeed were.......

here's a shot of the chute bay from side on with one door closed as you can see the door when open is fully below the hinge line ( the doors are opened by the spring drogue), the difficulty in securing or restraining is that it travels through 180 degrees , you can see the anchor at the left which is attached to the rear frame of the car .....for the mean time I have decided to use a short piece of hinge as the catch from which a pin will be pulled by cable .At this stage we need to stick with the KISS principle on several items here and just get everything in place , a concealed release will come later.....We have been through many ideas for the door "staying open" device ...it will come , but right now I say Nothing!!....and no, springs aren't the solution.....

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1210199.jpg)

Next up we have the jaw-line bars in the cage , not yet a critical item in the rules here but I haven't liked the feeling when sitting in the cage when the top of the helmet hits the upper horizontals , now the helmet has an inch or so either side and strikes the padding on upper and lower bars simultaneously , they look short but if they are as long as they can be without hindering egress and we'd be looking at a lot of belt ( and neck) stretch to even get close to the end of them......

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1200187.jpg)[

Below is the home made vacupan arrangement which you can see wrapped up behind the headers and water pipe.....yes , we will be putting a heat shield under that rubber there :roll:

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P1210197.jpg)

..............goin' late , and startin' early!



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 21, 2008, 01:38:07 PM
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvilleother/chute-1.jpg)   

This is very similar to yours ( I think you saw it before) and has worked very well for these guys.

(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvilleother/chute-2.jpg)

Look at the large roller that the chute lines are hooked to in the pictures.  I would suggest you do away with the clevis pin you have in the picture and use something with a larger diameter.  The small diameter of the clevis pin won't fly with SCTA anymore and for good reason as the lines are stressed too much going around a small diameter.  I'm not saying what you have won't work as it has been used for years, but it doesn't take much effort to make it safer than that.

Are the pads around the helmet sfi. or something similar (soft/spongy or harder)?? 

Are you guys starting to feel rushed or do you have things under control??  I realize you are getting close to run time.  Any reports on the salt??  I wish I was able to come this year, but in '08 I'd better be there  :-).

As you have found out posting your build like you, I and others have done leaves yourself open to review to a bunch of people who can have varying opinions and ideas.  I've found it good, not that I've always followed what has been suggested to me, but it does make me look at something from a different angle and at times has gotten me past a difficult part of the build.

The best of luck to you guys,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Glen on January 21, 2008, 01:46:27 PM
Dr. Goggles
Get rid of the chain shackle as they are weak and we have had several break at Bonneville over the years and the chute come off. The picture that Sum posted is a better way to attach the tow line to.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 21, 2008, 03:39:49 PM
I would suggest you do away with the clevis pin you have in the picture and use something with a larger diameter.  The small diameter of the clevis pin won't fly with SCTA anymore and for good reason as the lines are stressed too much going around a small diameter.  I'm not saying what you have won't work as it has been used for years, but it doesn't take much effort to make it safer than that.

Are the pads around the helmet sfi. or something similar (soft/spongy or harder)?? 

Are you guys starting to feel rushed or do you have things under control??  I realize you are getting close to run time.  Any reports on the salt??  I wish I was able to come this year, but in '08 I'd better be there  :-).

As you have found out posting your build like you, I and others have done leaves yourself open to review to a bunch of people who can have varying opinions and ideas.  I've found it good, not that I've always followed what has been suggested to me, but it does make me look at something from a different angle and at times has gotten me past a difficult part of the build.

The best of luck to you guys,

Sum

Ta Sum
 Yes the padding is SFI rated , in the space we had the options with what to do there were limited . As the cage was it met the rules however there were aspects that had me worried .I know that unless the helmet is isolated from the padding we might have vibration/visibility issues , hopefully the clearance we have will do ....as part of our team we are flying in an expert from Borneo who is a member of one of the head-shrinking tribes.

Fair comment on the shackle , I have wondered about the instantaneous load , the sustained loading wouldn't be a problem but at deployment...you may have something . At the moment prioritizing what we want to do AND what we have to do in the tiny amount of space that remains in the car is becoming increasingly difficult , it's like the fire alarm has gone off at the Jenny Craig clinic......
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:0GFpg7I612XdvM:http://www.freefoto.com/images/09/05/09_05_9---Cream-Cake_web.jpg)

I am wide open for comment here and willing to take all comers....the most appreciated is from those with the most experience who have devoted serious thought to what they have done , however , there is also some worth in the "dumb" questions that some people ask....even the strangest queries can make you think about something in fresh light or force you to justify or rationalize a decision .

It doesn't matter who asks the question or what it is the only guaranteed wrong answer is "I dunno" .

The salt is by all reports good to excellent , there has been enough water to dissolve the mud that wrecked it last year and although there have been heavy storms as long as there are no prevailing northerly winds in the week before the even it should be AOK.

The Rev. says to me sometimes ...." I get the feeling you're in "rush" mode?"...........Sum , I'm always in "rush" mode...... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 21, 2008, 06:02:49 PM
Thanks Sum, thanks Glen. All comments are appreciated.

And yes, again it feels like we are under the pump. The list on the blackboard has stuff crossed off each weekend, but it also seems like a few more items keep getting added balancing it out.

The good news is the car just keeps getting better, and safer. Faster? Well we'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

Doesn't help when I have a fifty hour week job and just bought a farm that needs some input too!

Six weeks to go, which is five weekends of work time available to go...

Nearly there. Four years of work.

rH+



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 21, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
.......................and just bought a farm that needs some input too.................

You should of consulted with me first  8-).  I could of told you all about milking cows twice a day getting the hogs back in the pen, wringing chickens necks, and taking care of horses that had less brains than the cows............

.............oh well I guess you will figure it all out............just make sure the Doc doesn't buy a farm also, then you would really be doomed  :cry:,

Can't wait to see the farm a year from now,

Sum


Title: Chicken neck
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 21, 2008, 07:12:28 PM
wringing chickens necks,
Sum

 :roll:...he's always "wringing the chicken's neck".......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 22, 2008, 06:03:19 PM
Sum,
I wasn't aware of your hogs and chickens...

We want to have rare breed pigs to fight off that satan Monsanto. Don't get me started on GM food!!!

Anyway the Lady Hedgash bought 4 ducks and two chickens over Christmas and so I had to build a foxproof, snake proof hutch in 43 degree celcius heat (over 100 in ancient units) over the break.

What's the best way to kill a duck? I'm not too keen on the neck snapping method. Especially when the white one has been named after The Stig from BBC's Top Gear!

I reckon they'll be the most expensive dinner I've ever had.

Rev H+

Does anyone think this is too off topic?



Title: O.T , no way!!
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 22, 2008, 06:22:56 PM

Does anyone think this is too off topic?

Hey Reverend MacDonald ,
can you send some of your mates over , we need to get quacking on the paint job......

BTW I see people carrying on about GM food , don't see anyone complaining about Ford food ,

what gives?




Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 22, 2008, 10:11:34 PM
..............What's the best way to kill a duck? I'm not too keen on the neck snapping method.....

.........with a shotgun..............


I only wrung a couple chickens necks.  Pretty gross.  I used a hatchet on all the rest.  The chickens were the easiest to keep, but you do have to keep them penned at night, at least where I was or something was going to eat them.  They are at the bottom of the list as far as smart.  I went in the chicken house once and a skunk was eating one and the others just came in and jumped up next to the chicken eating skunk and went into a box to lay an egg.  The only one dumber than a chicken is someone who would shoot said skunk with a shotgun in the chicken house.  I won't name names, but you might know who I'm talking about,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wolcottjl on January 22, 2008, 11:03:30 PM
..............What's the best way to kill a duck? I'm not too keen on the neck snapping method.....

.........with a shotgun..............
Sum

And if the shotgun doesn't work you still end up wringing the neck.  Kind of sick when the head stays in your hand and the body goes flying, not under its own power. 

We used to duck hunt a lot when I was a kid.  One of the best places was on top of an old rock and earthen dam.  When dad shot a duck it was my job to go down the rocks and get it.  The dogs had a hard time getting down.  Not all of them were dead.  Found the quickest way to wring the neck was to swing the duck in a circle and jerk your arm up at the bottom of the arc.   This was when I was about 7, if I was to give my kids a half dead duck they would go into convulsions.   Times have changed. 


BTW - This is one of the threads I check every day.  Wish you the best of luck!  No matter how much time you have left it is never enough. 



Title: Propster
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 23, 2008, 01:09:14 AM
....so much for the saying "you lucky duck".......with chooks the tricks is to hang 'em upside down for ten minutes or so , they pass out , then you can separate the egg laying bit from the pecking bit without too much trouble.....I've only got one hen at the moment , Jackie , she's brown , Jack who was black turned up dead a while back and no, she was buried whole 'cause ya can't eat a six year old chook.

whichever way you choose to do it and whether it be dooks or chucks ( you know what I mean)   you're gonna have to get the feathers off, some duck shooters use a thing like a propellor...now , I know someone who's got just the thing and it 's mobile , well , kind of......try

propsterguy@aol.com 

Meanwhile the car is sitting out there in the shed , and the clock is ticking......

Yesterday I took our parachute to a " parachute guy" who checked it over , yes he said it is just what we want and it will provide 2g at 200mph , he's tidying up a few lines , putting on a kevlar shroud on the anchor line and making a new drogue.........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on January 23, 2008, 01:17:39 AM
Conditions at Lake Gairdner.
What, a deviation on the build tabloid.

Forum post and pics from guys that went to the lake at Christmas...
http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=735

And this sat map of the track is really cool (to anyone that's been there).
Thanks to Greg, the DLRA web site guy.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/track-google-earth.jpg)

.. back to the farm.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hitz on January 23, 2008, 12:31:54 PM

  Dr G and the Rev,
   
    You may have the most known Belly Tank Lakester in the world and it hasn't even been on the lake yet! I love that it's home built and on a low budget.

    At 200 MPH with your scoop and louvers it may have a special sound also. Maybe whistle or hum.  :-D

    Thanks to Jon for his work on this web site and for both of you for keeping us all informed.

    If you haven't come up with a chute door controller yet, let me know an I'll send you a sketch to throw on the pile of ideas that you probably already have.     I have a sketch that only I can read but I could redraw it, scan and send it e-mail to you.



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 23, 2008, 01:04:11 PM

      At 200 MPH with your scoop and louvers it may have a special sound also. Maybe whistle or hum.  :-D

     I have a sketch that only I can read but I could redraw it, scan and send it e-mail to you.



done Harv' I PM'd you......as for the scoop , I think I mentioned earlier that the scoop isn't onto an airbox .........we're well aware of the issues associated with calculating the correct size scoop . As it was the boundary layer would have been beginning to separate as it came over the top of the car right about where the throttle bodies were poking through the cowl , we needed some type of intake . Without the time necessary to remap the fuel injection or, more specifically to do the calculations and then build something accurate we figured the simple solution for the mean time was to make something that at least stopped the air from flowing over the throttle bodies at 90 degrees , yes it's crude but we can partially block it up if need be whereas if we noticed the car suddenly losing power at a certain speed once we got to the lake ( remembering it's only done 100mph so far) then we'd be in trouble.

thanks to everyone for their contributions most of course to Mr Amo for maintaining the forum , and thanks for the interest.

Dr Goggles
DLRA #374

BTW here's a link to a "competing" forum where there were some beautiful unpublished photo's of Bob Roddicks including some rippers of the Brown/Hooper tank and a group shot of some of the seminal Bonneville cars.....
feast your eyes.....

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1606



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on January 24, 2008, 02:51:23 PM
Too small a shackle for the load will always be too small and risk breaking.
If you wish to increase the diameter if the pin at the point the lanyard goes around it, a simple slide on sleeve will do it.
The lanyard must always go around the straight pin or you have it backwards to the load.
The webbing is put into an uneven strain if it is installed around the rounded loop, as the ends are more highly stressed than the center.
It is like tearing some thing from the edges first.
Take a sheet of paper and pull straight on it across the entire width, and  then pull on it from the edges.
A lanyard anchor that is mounted in such a manner that it cannot follow the direction of pull as the chute moves around, is inviting failure also because the load will vary from side.
Do the same test as before, but this time with a piece of tape to simulate a flat lanyard working against a rigid mounting and a shackle that is allowed to move around.
If using a shackle with a screw in pin that spends most of it's life while not under load, secure it by backing it off from tight just a bit and take a tie wrap through the eye if the screw tab and around the base of the shackle.
Don't use a tool to tighten it. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on January 27, 2008, 08:37:50 AM
Quote
Don't use a tool to tighten it

So don't tighten it yourself

G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on January 27, 2008, 11:06:14 AM
Quote
Don't use a tool to tighten it

So don't tighten it yourself

G
Did I say "Tool" ?
I meant to say "FOOL".  :-D

GOTTCHA


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ol38y on January 27, 2008, 11:36:00 AM
For what it's worth, the shackle pins that are not threaded but held in by a cotter pin are rated higher then the threaded ones...   :-D

Just my 2 cents


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on January 27, 2008, 09:48:50 PM
Quote
Did I say "Tool" ?
I meant to say "FOOL".

Jack
Quick translation
Ausralian Slang or "Strine" as it also known

Tool, Fool
In fact if look up Tool in the macquarrie {Australain} dictionary it links to this picture
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/Tankshotssep006.jpg)>

Grumm


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 28, 2008, 06:15:23 PM
I don't think that's quite accurate Grumm... I reckon a tool is a more of a tosser than a fool is, a fool is just an ignoramus.

Tank Update:
This weekend, (Australia Day weekend where we celebrate invasion day) we rebuilt our gear shifting arrangement in a more hand friendly actually-works kind of way. (see photo below)

Ideally we need to shorten the first gearstick a bit to maximise room, but it is a vast improvement. I have made a cardboard mock up for an aluminium cover plate that I'll cut out next week.

Gee, aluminium is good stuff isn't it? When we started we couldn't weld it and thought that we'd need to get someone in to work on the Al stuff, but now we pump it out all the time, give it a quick "rat polish" and on it goes. No paint and looks great.

Part of the blessing of building a slightly rat tank, is that we don't need to get everything to perfection. Small dints, scrapes, slightly messy welds are all more forgivable on the whole if everything is slightly ratty.

The really important thing for us is getting the overall lines right; the wheels in the right place, the centreline and "attitude" right.

The attitude is important for Hot Rodding, but a little different for LSR. We have tried to play a game of balancing the two. For ours we wanted the feeling of being light, (like the Ladybug belly tank) yet have a slight menace about it. The feeling of animal muscle was a good feeling.

Early on, we found a land based crocodile in Australia (now extinct) that apparently was very fast and could see that our car could have some of these attributes. Four wheels (legs) and a tail.

The louvers down its back came from the idea of vertebrae down the spine of a croc.

The next major design update will be the cockpit dressing. We designed the method of finishing this area but this may not be done for Speedweek 08. Essentially we want to carry the body crease (between the top tank of the back of the car and the lower tank) through into the lift up canopy and finish it there. Also we wish to put in a lower polished aluminium edge to the canopy glass.

This simplifies the geometry here visually and will improve the "face" of the car. The side windows were inspired by the side windows of chopped rods such as the gorgeous Pierson coupe and help merge the styles.

rH+
Speed Deacon







Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on January 29, 2008, 10:39:37 AM
Sum said "I wish I was able to come this year, but in '08 I'd better be there  ." Here's an update for you Sum. It IS '08. :roll: Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 29, 2008, 10:56:42 AM
So how does the shifter work now?  I see a flat on the one side.  Is that the side where you start in 2nd if I remember right and then pull it to the stop (neutral) then grab the other stick??

Sum said "I wish I was able to come this year, but in '08 I'd better be there  ." Here's an update for you Sum. It IS '08. :roll: Wayno

It can't already be 08 can it  :cry:,  I still thought is was '62,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: dwarner on January 29, 2008, 11:10:45 AM
Who were you invaded by? Was it the convicts?

James Michner, the late novelist, died before he could write the book on Oz. Michner is where I learn most of my history. Just re-read Alaska, Joanie and I are going this Spring.

DW


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 29, 2008, 11:50:31 AM
..............Michner is where I learn most of my history...........DW

Me too!!  .............. and for SE Asia James Clavell.  Fires of Spring by Michner helped shape who I am.  I read it when I was about 20.  It was I think his first book and a semi-autobiograpy based somewhat on his life when he was growing up.  Went out of print, but then when he made it big it was reprinted and you can find it.  Not a great book, but I though a great "values" book.

You guys have fun in Alaska Dan,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 29, 2008, 03:38:59 PM
You're all nuts , especially you Wayno , when are you bringing the tank over to play??

As for Australia Day......Is there not a day of the year when there isn't a "Day"?.....huh?.....I'm thinking of declaring a "Belly-tank" day and instituting a rich tradition of observance where complete strangers will knock on the doors of Belly-tank owners and offer to do any non Bellytank related work ( lawn mowing , around-the-house-fix-it-jobs and shopping "accompaniment")) , pay all accounts , sit for a period of fifteen minutes of quiet contemplation while listening to the owner/builder's stories of sacrifice and deprivation and then leave a cold six pack .

What say Wayno?

We weren't strictly invaded by convicts, the Aboriginals' ownership or stewardship of this country was a bit like a pontoon that people just kept piling onto and by sheer weight of numbers it went under. It was more of a "Lord of the Flies" experiment where the Brit navy just dumped a whole bunch of thieves and fighting types on the other side of the world thinking that by the fact that they were English they would populate and claim another land mass . We , whoever we are now have managed to dispel a lot of the transplanted traits although the British still think we're a franchise . In a strange twist we whip them at any sport they care to play ( except soccer and no-one cares about that) and use their cheap transient labor to staff our bars ........how things have changed :wink:

There has been a phenomenon known as the "History wars" between academics here as to the significance and absolute detail of much of what happened....there is a very real " Wounded Knee" aspect to the Aboriginal side of things here and the definitive book hasn't and may never be written. doesn't mean we don't have some great history it's just as they say it's usually written by the victors and no-one really knows who won.........

Now B.O.T

Yeah Sum that's roughly it ....and yes it is possibly to make the fatal mistake of going for third while second is engaged ....if the Rev mysteriously disappears sometime in early March you can safely bet that is what has happened .

I'm picking up our 'chute today from the parachute bloke where it has had a "little work", a new drogue and some tidying of the lines and a new panel.........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 29, 2008, 04:13:28 PM
..................and yes it is possibly to make the fatal mistake of going for third while second is engaged .......

Could you put a latch on it so that when you pull it into neutral (after leaving 2nd) the latch falls down or is pulled in by a spring or something else.  This would lock it into position and might save the good rev. life  8-).  Just lift or pull the latch out to put it into gear at the line.

Or mill the bar with the flat in it so that the flat is stepped and locks when in neutral.

c ya,

Sum 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 29, 2008, 04:35:34 PM
Could you put a latch on it so that when you pull it into neutral (after leaving 2nd) the latch falls down or is pulled in by a spring or something else.  This would lock it into position and might save the good rev. life  8-).  Just lift or pull the latch out to put it into gear at the line.
Or mill the bar with the flat in it so that the flat is stepped and locks when in neutral.
c ya,
Sum 
.....that doesn't stop  the immediate problem . If I had a little more time I'd swap the bell crank at the gearbox so that third and fourth were around the other way and put a link between the two sticks so It  wasn't possible to get to third with the other leaver pulled back. That was why initially I toyed with the idea of spring loading the lever against neutral so it had to held in 2nd but when the lock-out was flipped it would stay in first..........

the ideal solution for this ( and other parts of the car) are all fighting for space on the schedule, which right now , is short....... :oops:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on January 29, 2008, 06:55:09 PM
Dr Goggles, I'm trying real hard to be running next season some time. When I'll get down there is anybody's guess but it's on my list. Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 29, 2008, 08:54:47 PM
Hey!... are you guys dissing my stick work?

sheesh, so unkind...

If you want a good book on Australian history check out "The Fatal Shore" by Robert Hughes

reverend "H" gash
sinister minister


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ol38y on January 29, 2008, 08:59:21 PM
Dr. G.

So for Belly Tank Day, to mow your lawn all we need is a can of gas and a match, right? I thought that's how ya'll did it down under... :-D

As far as history goes, we do have quite a bit in common. You started with convict labor, we ended up with convict politicians... :? I really enjoyed my time down under and sorry I couldn't hook up with you but maybe see if you could get rid of the fly's for next time. The dung beetles aren't workin.  :-o

Back to point. It looks like you're making good progress and good Lord willin, I'll make it back to see you run.

Yours in speed, Larry

Rev, you beat me to the post, I'll check it out, you guy's have an awsome history as well.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 30, 2008, 05:23:55 AM
/The feeling of animal muscle was a good feeling.
rH+
Speed Deacon


sheesh , what church are you FROM????????...........

BTW it seems the holy telephone is on the blink my holy man.....either that or my SMS's have been diverted to your accountant....I bought the color today ( sting red) and I picked up the 'chute , it's great ,but, my wallet is a weeping sore and requires dressing . In another development it seems that the pieces made to seal the lower firewall area need to be "modified " as the engine bay tub won't go back on ( I.S.Y.N)......ain't lookin' forward to getting that right.

hey Larry we'll see you when you get here , .....that's ok , I only stood out the front lookin' up and down the road for a day or so......










Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank and Ignorami
Post by: grumm441 on January 30, 2008, 06:56:42 AM
Quote
I don't think that's quite accurate Grumm... I reckon a tool is a more of a tosser than a fool is, a fool is just an ignoramus.

I used to work at this Ducati shop 'bout 12 years ago and some clown came in and called one of us an "Igarus"???

I believe the reply was "not as big of an Igarus as you mate."


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank and Ignorami
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 30, 2008, 02:47:24 PM
I used to work at this Ducati shop 'bout 12 years ago and some clown came in and called one of us an "Igarus"???
I believe the reply was "not as big of an Igarus as you mate."

.wasn't Igarus the guy who made his own wings......?......and then his max welted , something like that anyway........Or was he the guy who fronted the Stooges?

anyway , better an ignoramus than an ignoranus , cause they're just full of it..


Title: The Midnight hour looms............
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 04, 2008, 06:19:07 AM
It's 27 days according to PJQ and that's not much....Today I took the tail off and started to zip everything up around the fuel tank . There was a tiny leak around the fuel line at the bottom of the tank and I hadn't yet made a mount for the fuel filter. I did those things and then lagged all the lines in the tail section with fibreglass ( that's how we spell it here) and foil tubing . I made a better breather too, it goes to a hole in the floor so that there is no chance of it spewing fuel onto the exhaust which is what I suspect may have happened at the T&T day.....I won't elaborate on what else happened to that breather but suffice to say I think a steel one is better and it is very well secured too.After that I replaced the cement sheet and aluminium sandwich which we made to act as a heat shield over the exhaust union  At the airstrip test and tune day we hadn't yet put a floor in the tail section ( a triangular piece a yard long and six inches at the front)and as the original fuel tank went much further back and down ,the exhaust hung very low , so low in fact that it turns out that it won't fit now I have put a floor in.The other issue with the exhaust is that it has a long unsupported section from the union behind the rear bulkhead to the tip of the tail .This has been a source of some friction between the Rev and I , If there was any superstructure there it would be easy to keep the pipe where we want it .....However because the bodywork needs to be taken off in order to weld the pipe when adjustments are made it becomes a tedious and imprecise .....The Rev bought a flexible section , which of course won't solve the problem ...because, the pipe is unsupported ....are ya gettin me? I had one of those moments late this afternoon when I thought to myself  " pack up now, you're annoyed and you'll end up wrecking something..."

Tomorrow I go and buy another piece of 3inch exhaust tube and , make , another tail-pipe :x The only saving grace is that with the doors cut for the 'chute I can do it all from the top ....and compared to lying underneath the car that's bloody luxury . 

I 've also been tidying up the axle shrouds on the tail section , they look great ....they make it nearly impossible to get it on and off now.... :oops:..... In time we will have this all sussed out , maybe cutting the tail section into two pieces might be the solution, but the time is not now........another job on the card today was a tinker with the canopy latches , the Rev had made some bungs that I hadn't got around to which the skin mounts onto the frame around the screen with .Of course as soon as you even look at the canopy the latches get fussy....I gave the cable release a bit more slack a they seem to be better than ever now.....

On the weekend the Rev made a cover for the gearshift which has graduated from prototype to bimbotype( dunno if it works any better but it looks great) , we have the new aluminium sticks and lock-out shaft. The new steering wheel has been kidnapped by Vaughn our tame fitter and turner in order to tart it up and finish off the center cap he made for it , it certainly looks better than the cut down and bent Mazda wheel we had.......even if it was just hacked out of 10mm plate by a hill-billy with a jig-saw( moi :wink:)...right now that's about all i can think of...........but there is I can assure you all , more to come :wink: :wink:


Title: Re: The Midnight hour looms............
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 04, 2008, 05:26:47 PM
.....The Rev bought a flexible section , which of course won't solve the problem ...because, the pipe is unsupported ....are ya gettin me? I had one of those moments late this afternoon when I thought to myself  " pack up now, you're annoyed and you'll end up wrecking something..."

I said it before and I'll say it again... the tail section can hold the pipe!!! You just need to get the other end remotely near the centreline of the car (and we can put superstructure at the rear of the diff).

Now get back into that shed and don't break anything. If the option is using a grinder or hitting it with a hammer, use the grinder.

Sheesh, talk about airing dirty laundry!!!

reverend "H" gash


Title: Re: The Midnight hour looms............
Post by: Sumner on February 04, 2008, 11:23:06 PM
.....The Rev bought a flexible section , which of course won't solve the problem ...because, the pipe is unsupported ....are ya gettin me? I had one of those moments late this afternoon when I thought to myself  " pack up now, you're annoyed and you'll end up wrecking something..."

I said it before and I'll say it again... the tail section can hold the pipe!!! You just need to get the other end remotely near the centreline of the car (and we can put superstructure at the rear of the diff).

Now get back into that shed and don't break anything. If the option is using a grinder or hitting it with a hammer, use the grinder.

Sheesh, talk about airing dirty laundry!!!

reverend "H" gash

You guys going to the salt in the same vehicle  8-).  How long does it take to get there  :evil:  At least you're not married  :-P,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on February 05, 2008, 12:53:26 AM
Work on something else - put the chute aside till next week - we've got the club meeting on Sundee, and an afternoon of bench racing BS. That'll invigorate the soul, fuel the grey matter, activate the engineering genes.

I'm driving that crazy Queenslander #66 to the airport after the club meet. If you don't behave we'll drop around for a look-see and you'll cop a load of his opinionated rhetoric. That thought's enough to slap anybody into line.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 05, 2008, 02:35:07 AM
Not married you say, but they have a baby ?! :?


Title: Alum,money, livin' in sin...
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 05, 2008, 03:09:44 PM
I'm not going near that whole get up of marriage jokes , sure it's a mich rein to vine or whatever but there's more impotent things at hand ( :oops:)....
Work on something else - put the chute aside till next week - we've got the club meeting on Sundee, and an afternoon of bench racing BS. That'll invigorate the soul, fuel the grey matter, activate the engineering genes.
I'm driving that crazy Queenslander #66 to the airport after the club meet. If you don't behave we'll drop around for a look-see and you'll cop a load of his opinionated rhetoric. That thought's enough to slap anybody into line.

right now I can't put anything to the side ...I've started from the back and am assembling the car to ready it for paint , the tightening of gaps has brought up some fiment/mounting issues that weren't there before and I need enough "clearance " so as not to destroy the paintwork during any dismantling .I haven't yet made the cable release for the chute but other than that the tail is done . Next is the gearbox breather , then the additional extinguisher lines , a new idler for the belt( the one we have isn't beefy enough and was the probable cause of a spat belt at Mangalore).

As for Bob , I'm going to get a bourbon and coke can , put some marbles in it so it's noisy and hang it off a long rubber band in the shed , he'll be so distracted he won't be able to talk let alone bother us about the tank......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 06, 2008, 10:10:28 PM
...

,...... , ..., OK , enough of that :roll:
today I put in a concealed catch on the 'chute doors and did a rough installation of a solenoid to trip it , which ,much to my delight, worked first time  :-D

However in a moment of light relief before I put the solenoid on I had a piece of mig wire attached to it , I packed the 'chute in , loaded the drogue on top( I need to do some weight training) and managed to get the doors shut and engage the catch .So , I'm standing there staring at it , wire in my hand ( I'd already unlatched it a few times without the 'chute in there) and thought  " gee , that fit could be a little tighter" and lent in to look at it ...


I got THAT close I swear before a voice in my head said " s*&#t don't pull it now"...... I get the feeling my dear departed father was somehow tugging on my elbow trying to pull the catch so the drogue got me square in the face....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 06, 2008, 11:46:43 PM
Good thing you were wearing goggles :-D :-D :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 09, 2008, 03:06:33 AM
....as I just posted elsewhere on this forum ,there is ,at this moment a hold on Lake Gairdner 2008 , the surface is soft , there may be a re-schedule but it doesn't look good.

I am very sad.

Just this afternoon we had Geoff Izzard ( a new DLRA member and lakester builder ) and his dad Ken over to check out the car.....Ken is a well known midget builder ...I came inside and sat down to check out the forums , particularly the update on the surface at Gairdner and the news was bad , all bad. :-(


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on February 09, 2008, 10:07:18 AM
DG and group from down under, maybe they will just give you another month to get finished.  I saw everyone was "getting pissed"  and then remembered that might mean you are drinking....  :|

If you do get "wetted" out, start looking at the car for improvements and a nice stretch of road to do a little more testing...  :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 09, 2008, 11:44:57 AM
This should reaffirm your resolve to put together some Maxton type events that will serve to bring the club closer together and take the edge off of the disappointment the weather cycle has to offer.
You are still at the "baby steps" phase and at least your Salt Flat is not subject to man made deterioration (politricks included) as well as the weather.
Bonneville has the reputation for being the tallest kid on the block, but too tall approaches "Geek" status , and a lot of the real trouble is right at your feet.
A blast down a public road to test what you built or get it out of your system is a bad idea for a lot of reasons you already know better.
Use the energy to put together smaller events that will work towards getting everything together for the long course. :wink:

 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 09, 2008, 04:01:12 PM
If as it looks the meet doesn't go ahead I have decided to take the time to go over to Sth Australia and check out another of the salt lakes in the area of Gairdner. If you look at this map

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?ie=UTF8&z=5&ll=-25.335448,135.745076&spn=31.154942,45.834961&om=1

, find Woomera which is Nth and slightly west of Adelaide ,there is a lake called Island Lagoon just south of it . Going there and doing a GPS plot and some hand auger core samples might be worth , something............

there will definitely be a bigger push for an airfield meet but whether it is Mangalore where we were in October remains to be seen......

DG and group from down under, maybe they will just give you another month to get finished.  I saw everyone was "getting pissed"  and then remembered that might mean you are drinking....  :|

If you do get "wetted" out, start looking at the car for improvements and a nice stretch of road to do a little more testing...  :roll:

....always the hot-rodder :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 10, 2008, 03:50:05 PM
We had the DLRA six monthly meeting yesterday , many long faces ( giddy-up!) ....there was a general sense of disbelief mixed with the acceptance that on top of all the difficult factors involved in this variety of motor-sport there is the strange and as yet not fully understood nature of the salt lake .Is it a tidal effect linked to the moon cycle ? is it just the groundwater flow ? There has been very little rain on and around the Lake Gairdner area and the lake doesn't have any large tributaries so after seeing shots of the surface and hearing reports about how hard it was at Christmas time it came as a shock to hear it was so soft that a 4WD got bogged on it on Saturday.

Bob Ellis our Queensland delegate mentioned that there is a salt lake forming in Queensland and it may well be usable within the next 100,000 years which is a relief .He did though mention that they are close to establishing an airfield meeting at Stanthorpe in southern Queensland.

Members from all over the country are offering suggestions as to alternative venues , there are some probable alternatives but they all have their own particular problems, none are as big and none are close to major towns except one in Western Australia but that's nearly 2000 miles from the East coast where most of the members are and it's only good for a five mile straight.

On the bright side though it was good to go to the meeting ( fellow sufferers group) and catch up with all those members who aren't regulars on the club message board and talk about our rides. Our tank has created a bit of interest and it was great to able to discuss the build , some of the recent changes and what's in store with the other tank owners and builders.

Still pretty cut up though.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 10, 2008, 09:35:24 PM
Gee. Four and a half years of thought, development and construction (and leaking wallets) and still no fun bit...

Another year?!?? Ouch!

This raises a few tricky questions.

The main one being do we ditch the Commodore V6 and go the Alloytec 190 that we have?
We have done so much to get this current motor sorted with heat shields, vacuum scavenging, upgraded springs being the most recent. Do we ditch this work for an engine which is more powerful but far more complicated?

Also need to spend a bit on getting the extra bits we need to make it go... so it just feels like a waste of money if we don't use the one we have prepared.

As I write my feeling is to finish off everything else to the best of it's ability before opening this new can of worms:
  • new diff with a lower ratio (quickchange?)
  • new neater seat that allows better vehicle entry/exit
  • complete canopy trim details to the new neater design
  • complete bodywork, bog and paint
  • remake headrest (neater)
  • design and build trailer
  • new front rounded profile detail to air inlet
  • update fire extinguishers to 15 lbs for 200mph rule
  • build supercharged motor (Commodore V6) for quick class change at Lake
  • Tee-shirt design and badges and merchandise (and why not?)

I haven't given up hope for this year yet. Let's hope the visit in March proves a miraculous hardening of the surface and away we go!

rH+









Title: Parachute safety net
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 13, 2008, 08:18:03 PM
There was a post recently elsewhere on the site about a safety net  that I think may have been used at El Mirage made from webbing with chutes attached to capture cars that had overshot....I couldn't find it .

Can anyone help me with a description or better still a photo of this or a similar device. Thanks .


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 13, 2008, 08:59:45 PM
The net you are speaking of was likely the one built by Stroud.
I only saw it used once on the salt when course conditions required return runs be made in the direction of the dike and stopping was more urgent than with the typical roll out distance available.
It was built like what you see on some Drag Strips that are a bit short to accommodate the fastest vehicles.
Unlike a catch net on some runways that are dampened with an inertia wheel, this was used with parachutes that deployed from the pull on an anchor point.
An option to that if you were in the need for an emergency area to stop at the end of a runway for example, would be a sand trap.
Airports usually have some distance beyond the pavement that is leveled and a sand trap might also help them.:wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Glen on February 13, 2008, 09:14:46 PM
Jack is right that Stroud made it. It was two chutes mounted in a tube on each side of the course in the shut down area. There was a net that you would drive into and deploy the chutes to stop. The BMW liner drove around it and went into the dyke. Another who I wont name said he would not use it because he was afraid the net would trap him under it and he could not get out of his car. I still think it's a good idea. It is owned by USFRA.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 13, 2008, 09:19:26 PM
thank you Sirs,
the help is always much appreciated

I was wondering about it because we will definitely be having a few airstrip meets this year , a device like you described could no doubt make it safer and the turn around quicker than having to drag cars back from the boonies with a tractor or something....

Meanwhile on the DLRA site there has been much gnashing of teeth and waving of canes......There are some of us who believe that the lake is affected by tidal influences on the groundwater and so believe that the lake is more likely to be soft during a full moon. After speaking to a few "locals" i have now heard a bit of anecdotal evidence that backs this theory up.... Greg Wapling the webmaster  of the site is encouraging people to seek out as much data and research as we can . Knowing the annual cycles , how the ground water level affects the surface , the average daily temps and what the probability of rain , certain winds , and Keith Turk hearing about the meet is will make for a better and more likely meet.....

http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=772


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 13, 2008, 09:21:13 PM
oh yeah...... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 13, 2008, 09:40:46 PM
The chemistry makeup of the natural surface varies quite a bit with respect to the ability to handle moisture.
When the Bonneville Salt Flat was less depleted, the water could be just 1 inch below the surface and the heat of the day would bring it above the surface and we actually ran at speed through bits of standing water.
The white stuff we have now turns to grease with the least bit of moisture and rock hard if it is too dry, and that makes it difficult to groom.
El Mirage has not suffered the same mining fate but the lower water table from the growth in the area has reduced it's ability to maintain a usable surface.
Even the dry lake bed at Edwards (Muroc) has large cracks from the lower water table that would require a lot of work to make suitable for use.
Yours is a natural cycle and ours is more of a human touch.
We feel your pain :x


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 18, 2008, 05:36:54 AM
BTW Jack I have nearly nailed the 'chute door anxieties.........I had made some little spring loaded tubes that overshot the hinges preventing the doors from rebounding , they worked well.However like all the other spring ideas I had they load the doors unnecessarily  and made the packing of the 'chute and the closing of the doors a bit messy too.My next bright idea sounds complicated but I am going to make small air-rams instead of the spring loaded ones. Once the doors open it will release a micro switch sending power to one of those little compressors that run air horns , these will operate in the same way.With the doors half open they will be pressing against them but once the doors go beyond 90 degrees they will overshoot the hinge stopping the door from returning , the air charging will only need to work til they reach this point , I haven't quite nutted it out yet but there will be a further way of switching out the compressor....maybe I'll just hook some horns up to a relief valve :-D :-D.The advantage is they will be unloaded when the doors are shut .

After mucking around with it for a long time I decided that the spring drogue puts more than enough pressure on the doors and the catch works fine with the amount of pressure it is under , didn't want anymore......this picture is the catch with the release cable which runs down to a solenoid .

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P2180271.jpg)

I can hear a rumbling......Jack?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 18, 2008, 08:50:54 AM
Skip fireball electric and go all the way straight to some brake line tubing that uses hardware store mini cable like you might use on a throttle, and is operated with a handle.
The business end can be spliced to a hard wire and even something as complex as a return spring can be installed over the line to cause it to stay in place better when not in use.
A very famous streamliner car had the electronic whiz bang model actuate at the starting line the first time , and dump the clean laundry on the dirty ground. 

"Over time, and over complexity, sometimes causes over doing, that often results in premature done, with no easy fix." (me) :wink:

For the device that keeps the doors open, and limits their travel, make an over center linkage from flat stock that won't return without a human touch once they have been activated.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on February 18, 2008, 11:47:40 AM
.................. go all the way straight to some brake line tubing that uses hardware store mini cable like you might use on a throttle, and is operated with a handle............................

Thanks Jack, just the solution to a couple things I need to do.  I'll have to take back all, well at least some, of the bad things I've been saying about you  :evil:.  Have fun on your "date" in Portland,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 18, 2008, 12:36:24 PM
Air horns are great for the return road, and herding spectators away that tend to crowd your space.
My favorite is the person that has not recovered from bumping his head on the hood yet , and is already grabbing his chest. :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 18, 2008, 03:46:10 PM
Skip fireball electric and go all the way straight to some brake line tubing that uses hardware store mini cable like you might use on a throttle, and is operated with a handle.
The business end can be spliced to a hard wire and even something as complex as a return spring can be installed over the line to cause it to stay in place better when not in use.

That is the method upon which our canopy release relies , works well. However , the route to the cab from the tail is a "wong and linding woad" past many hot spots ...adding that to the necessity to make a handle in an accessible spot within reach pushed us toward the electrickery in order to be ready for the now not happening event.

A very famous streamliner car had the electronic whiz bang model actuate at the starting line the first time , and dump the clean laundry on the dirty ground.

A very famous two wheel BGS did that here......I seen it , I'm quickly becoming convinced............ 

For the device that keeps the doors open, and limits their travel, make an over center linkage from flat stock that won't return without a human touch once they have been activated.

Because of the shape of the tail at that point the path of the doors as they open is not perpendicular to the centreline , so far our efforts in that style haven't really done the bizzo....the doors travel through 180 degrees meaning that the linkage needs to go somewhere when the doors are closed and not be in a position to become entangled in the "linen"...........

Air horns are great for the return road, and herding spectators away that tend to crowd your space.
My favorite is the person that has not recovered from bumping his head on the hood yet , and is already grabbing his chest. :-D

ahhh the air horn is King when....

1./ someone is working on a hot motor.
2./ someone is working on live electrics under the hood
3./ in the car next to you is the person who has been winding all over the road ....and they are STILL talking on their mobile....with their window down
4./ you see two people who DEFINITELY aren't meant to be in the same place at the same time , don't forget to wave!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 18, 2008, 04:19:55 PM
The air horn is really fun when 2 people are doing each other , in the same place, at the same time. :-D
The brake line tubing is easy to route with no tools, can be joined or terminated with a coupling for easy removal in segments, and stand a lot of heat.
The handle or tab to actuate can be very small and you won't need much lever action mechanical advantage to do the job.
I think I remember Howard N. built a sliding bar with a small tab bent out at the end and no mechanical advantage like you might get with a lever handle.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 18, 2008, 10:44:38 PM
I'm depressed.

The spirit of sunshine is dark and gloomy.

The cancellation of the event has coincided with a mess of other trivial misses, losses and rudenesses and all combined I am as low as low can be.

Not even reading Landracing cheers me up.

Back on deck soon.

rH-





Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on February 18, 2008, 11:25:48 PM
REV, DON'T JUMP... STEP BACK AWAY FROM THE LEDGE, RACING WILL RESUME ....  :-D
 
How'd I do?  Feel better  8-)



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 19, 2008, 12:01:49 AM
Yeah I know... It's not the be-all and end all. Especially when there are so many out there with so much less: less opportunity, less health, less freedom, less blah.

But I was kind of hanging together with everything else in the world by following this dream. When DrG and I started this enterprise we had a chat. Believe it or not it was in an old graveyard in Castlemaine near where we had just inspected and purchased the belly tank, the first step of our journey.

We stopped there because I like graveyards as a recorder of struggle and hope (and of loss) and we discussed why we were entertaining the idea of doing this project. We only roughly knew each other as I had gone out with his cousin for a number of years previously, and another cousin musician of his was a friend, and so here was a chance having just committed financially with the purchase of the first bit to chat about our attraction to the concept.

Interest in mad petrol headed humorous design schemes aside, our discussion revolved around the relative meaninglessness of contemporary Australian life and the desire to make our own meaning.

Australia is probably one of the most secular countries on the planet, with one of the highest suicide rates in both the young and old age brackets, and having suffered the loss of friends from this blight we wondered whether they would have been so keen to go if they simply had a project that they were interested in like this.

Also being social drifters it was a chance to latch onto a project with identifiable rewards within an interesting new community of people. (This forum being an unexpected discovery).

I don't think either of us envisioned being committed to the level of effort that we have over the past four and a half years and believe that we lied to ourselves about (in addition to not fully understanding)  the reality of the project to be able to do it at all. My building relationship with Dr G has lasted a year longer than my longest relationship (the good lady 'gash and I have only been together 3 years).

Throughout this time I have been battling persistent black moods from stress and overwork and the major saving grace has been the dream of the tank. Sunday, tank day, became a ritual to look forward to at the highest emotional level, and even though it has impacted socially over the years it usually takes precedence to most other activities with the promise that we would be running soon and things would calm down and I could then spend more time with family and friends.

So it is not just a race. It is not just a hobby. It has become a foundation for a lot of other things in my life to be able to reside on and hopefully an example for others that you can make dreams come true with a little application.

The not being able to race affects me to my core. But yes, there will be next year, and hopefully one day a grand pilgrimage to Bonneville with the car when it's sorted.

I look forward to these things.

Thanks for your note Robert, I am OK. Just needed to vent amongst those that understand.

rH



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 19, 2008, 02:45:36 AM
I think I would have struggled to say that better myself.......

It's all true.

We will rock Rev' , just not right now .......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on February 19, 2008, 06:44:33 AM
you should be where i am

Hey Stew

What about using an EH rear window or an austin bonnet strut. they always stay open when you don't want them to
g


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on February 19, 2008, 09:56:07 AM
Rev and Doc, not to worry, I can see by your posts you merely have the addiction that must be fed.  Rev, you expressed it very well, this can and does consume you.  People that have done this for a long time feel your pain, we went raceless in 82-83 and again in 93-94.  The craving for going fast can be all consuming, especially if you build from scratch and want to see what you ended up with.  Committing to this adventure is a way of life, you will never stop thinking of things to try to go faster. 
But that is LSR and luckily this website helps a lot of us get to the next race. 
Your build has helped show a lot of folks that it can be done, and given a lot of folks the opportunity to share experience and experiences.  If you can't race this year, you will have an easy prep for next year, unless of course you dig back in and decide to change things that you feel you can improve.  We had the car ready to race in 93, when the race was cancelled, we spent the week taking the car apart, changed, fixed, painted and updated.  Got it back together for 94, then found the races were canceled a couple of days before, so we tore back into the car and changed a few more things.  In 95, about 6 years after our first run over 200, we put Johnboy (speedlimit 1000) in the club at 221 with a 1 liter fuel motor.  As I have said in previous posts, this sport takes patients  :roll: (often mental patients)  :roll: to continue.  Yea, I spelled it wrong on purpose, because we have the sickness that keeps us doing this year after year, success or failure.  Yep, you got it too, I can tell  :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 19, 2008, 10:57:10 AM
I guess I could work towards saying something profound but you guys are already finding it yourselves, and sharing it with others.
Isn't that the most satisfying part anyway, and the real lasting objective ? :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 20, 2008, 11:12:09 PM
I feel your---no OUR pain-- :cry:--I just don't know what to say-- :roll:--but there is the LURE of the next race!!---minimums, weather, track conditions,scruitneers, and WILD Animals---can eventulally be surmounted-- :-D--if we keep the faith and go to the next race PREPARED as best we know how to be!!!!!!!!!!!!  hope to meet you in OZ some day and see you guys and your car in person!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 20, 2008, 11:36:24 PM
Thanks Sparky it'd be great to see you here.....you know I've been thinking a trip to the States could be just what I need after the last two cancellations ......so draw the shades and act like y'all ain't home :-D.

Yesterday one of the local hot-rod mags came out with a feature that went to press days before the cancellation and it has a picture of our tank at the test and tune day in it ....you know" Dr Goggles and Rev. Hedgash's bellytank will make it's debut ...etc"......" Yeah , you beauty , hooray F' " I thought ,"If only!!"............... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on February 20, 2008, 11:43:29 PM
Thanks Sparky it'd be great to see you here.....you know I've been thinking a trip to the States could be just what I need after the last two cancellations ......so draw the shades and act like y'all ain't home :-D......

Hey what a great idea, I've got room and no shades   8-) .  I'll have to see if I can get Sparky to go over there with me next year,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: doug odom on February 21, 2008, 01:21:40 AM
Hey Rev, You will find that it is the journey and not the destination that is important. I've been racing something some where M/C, sports cars, Nascar...etc sense I was 16. Yep 50 years   lol  and I still am looking forward to what I can get done ( bucket list) so you have lots of time left. You will be fine, just think of all the little things you will have time to do right now.
Doug Odom in big ditch


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: whitworthsocket on February 24, 2008, 06:41:54 AM

Members from all over the country are offering suggestions as to alternative venues , there are some probable alternatives but they all have their own particular problems, none are as big and none are close to major towns except one in Western Australia but that's nearly 2000 miles from the East coast where most of the members are and it's only good for a five mile straight.

Hello Dr Goggles & Rev,
I live in WA can you tell me the name/ location of the 5 mile straight. The job I am at
  http://www.fmgl.com.au/IRM/content/project_imagegallery.htm   is supposed to be coming to an end and I would be interested in driving to said location for a look.

I can understand your depresion. I used to go in the Avon descent a weekend 180km down river canoe surfski and small powerboat race. Six months of training five nights a week. We got caught in a rapid my collegue hurt his back and the double ski was badly damaged at about 3/4 distance on the second day. The exhaustion along with the dissapointment was a very bitter pill.

Maybe the old maxim "If it doesnt kill you it will make you stronger" will work


Regards Whitworthsocket


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 24, 2008, 03:37:29 PM
Hey Whitworth,
The lake I was talking about is Lake Lefroy south of Kalgoorlie . There have been a couple of images posted on the DLRA message board lately.

http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=772&start=45

If there was an event there it would be prohibitive for most of the East coast people unless we shared semi's to get there.Even so if it takes 6000k's to race who am I to complain.

Next week I'm going to go over to Gairdner and also check out Island Lagoon which is just south of Woomera and with a bit of luck do a GPS plot across it so at least someone can say " I drove across it and have the plots for a seven mile straight track".........I just have to go there , I need to see salt , stand on it ....feel like I've been there ...otherwise it just  starts to feel like forever since I've stood on the good stuff.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on February 24, 2008, 03:42:56 PM
..........Next week I'm going to go over to Gairdner and also check out Island Lagoon which is just south of Woomera and with a bit of luck do a GPS plot across it so at least someone can say " I drove across it and have the plots for a seven mile straight track".........I just have to go there , I need to see salt , stand on it ....feel like I've been there ...otherwise it just  starts to feel like forever since I've stood on the good stuff.

Hey you should think about taking the tank and using it to drive across the salt to do the GPS plot  :-),

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 24, 2008, 04:23:25 PM
Next week I'm going to go over to Gairdner and also check out Island Lagoon which is just south of Woomera and with a bit of luck do a GPS plot across it so at least someone can say " I drove across it and have the plots for a seven mile straight track".........I just have to go there , I need to see salt , stand on it ....feel like I've been there ...otherwise it just  starts to feel like forever since I've stood on the good stuff.

Never say die, Dr. G.  Godspeed on your trip - post us some pics when you get back?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 24, 2008, 11:21:25 PM
Hey you should think about taking the tank and using it to drive across the salt to do the GPS plot  :-),
Sum

don't tempt me.....
Never say die, Dr. G.  Godspeed on your trip - post us some pics when you get back?

will do


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ol38y on February 24, 2008, 11:34:50 PM
Hey you should think about taking the tank and using it to drive across the salt to do the GPS plot  :-),
Sum

don't tempt me.....
Never say die, Dr. G.  Godspeed on your trip - post us some pics when you get back?

will do


I'm with Sum, and don't forget the pics...  Remember you have to come back eventually!!! :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on February 25, 2008, 02:02:02 AM
Dr G

Take more water than you can carry and let the coppers know where you are. It'd be nice to meet one day.

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: whitworthsocket on February 25, 2008, 10:01:33 AM
Dr Goggles,
I did a Google earth search of Lake Lefroy. It looks promising its a pity about the causeway across the middle.
With all of the mining around that area and the land yachts it may be difficult getting clear access.


Hey Whitworth,
The lake I was talking about is Lake Lefroy south of Kalgoorlie . There have been a couple of images posted on the DLRA message board lately.

http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=772&start=45

If there was an event there it would be prohibitive for most of the East coast people unless we shared semi's to get there.Even so if it takes 6000k's to race who am I to complain.

Next week I'm going to go over to Gairdner and also check out Island Lagoon which is just south of Woomera and with a bit of luck do a GPS plot across it so at least someone can say " I drove across it and have the plots for a seven mile straight track".........I just have to go there , I need to see salt , stand on it ....feel like I've been there ...otherwise it just  starts to feel like forever since I've stood on the good stuff.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on February 25, 2008, 11:18:04 PM
Right-oh, that's cracked it!
Was going to be sensible, stay home, save $, work on unfinished projects... 

"The Mongrel" leaves early Monday! Wanna lift Doc?

Arrive Lake G on Tuesday arvo. 
Leave Lake G Wednesday midday, arrive Woomera Wednesday evening.
Poke around Island Lagoon Thursday and Friday.
Leave Woomera area Friday midday, arrive Silverton Pub Friday evening?
Satdee - head home.

Of course, there'll be the temptation to stay at Lake G with the other guys that show up for the working bee.
Bottle of Jammie and I ain't driving the next day. Could be dangerous at Lake G.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 26, 2008, 02:53:45 AM
 signed , sealed ,delivered,

I'll be waitin' out t' front!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 26, 2008, 08:06:30 AM
what an "outing"-- :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 26, 2008, 09:40:31 AM
what an "outing"-- :-D
Don't "out' everything.
At least keep your pants on. 8-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on February 26, 2008, 05:04:15 PM
Oi, it's rough Outback, one needs companionship.
Mrs. Goggles will be on-board, right?

(that oughta throw em off the scent)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 26, 2008, 06:44:16 PM
what an "outing"-- :-D
Don't "out' everything.
At least keep your pants on. 8-)

Gimmee a break Jack , you know me ......you're making me sound like the kind of guy who'd pose naked on a push-bike with a beer can in his hand!

Ive got standards you know...... :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on February 26, 2008, 07:01:29 PM
I know you have standards, but if you held the can around where the label was readable, we could have sold a lot more posters, not to mention the advertizing revinue we lost.
Smoking the "FAG" with the logo showing would have really added to the net also.
Ferd assures me that he can Photo Shop all that stuff in, but can I trust him ? :-(


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 26, 2008, 07:31:04 PM
....how unprofessional of me .....fortunately I have a chance now to make amends.....pack the cameras , we're off to the desert.! 8-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: maj on February 28, 2008, 02:42:47 AM
First Animal now you ....who's going to be March   :-o


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 02, 2008, 04:14:09 PM
OK , we're off ....I'll be back in a week or so with photo's and tales to tell.I spoke to some members who are at the Lake already and the word was yesterday that the lake surface is still soft.......so it seems the cancellation was timely. :wink:

til then....2roo.



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on March 02, 2008, 04:24:30 PM
OK , we're off ....I'll be back in a week or so with photo's and tales to tell.I spoke to some members who are at the Lake already and the word was yesterday that the lake surface is still soft.......so it seems the cancellation was timely. :wink:

til then....2roo.



Have fun........................

Sum


Title: red dust , rough roads ,no racin'
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 09, 2008, 02:53:27 AM
Greeting Folks , we're back from our pilgrimage.....3000 kilometers or 1800 miles and quite a few of those were on the dirt and all of them were hot. From Melbourne it's about 13 hours drive to Lake Gairdner , we stopped in the wine making area of the Barossa Valley near Adelaide on Monday night where we had a "counter "meal with Dirty Dave and talked about the state of the nation , we had a great old laugh ....we jumped back in the Land Cruiser and headed off north towards Port Pirie where we stayed  for the night , two hundred miles short of the Lake. An hour the next morning and we were at "the Gutter" or better known as Port Augusta where we stocked up on ice , beer , some food......and filled the tank . The drive in was smoother than recent years the corrugations in the road not being continuous....and it wasn't in the low forties celcius which was a relief .  We drove straight to the salt after a brief chat with the Newtons who own the pastoral lease which covers the access to the lake . When we got there it was immediately apparent that the ramp where the usual on/off point is was unusable for vehicles as it was slushy . We got our push-bikes out and set off towards the track.it was heavy going and the tyres were flicking up a rooster tail of wet salt and water...but after about 100-150 meters the salt was hard and as we went out the sound the tyres were making became crisper and brighter . The surface had walnut sized salt growths on it which I hadn't seen before....here's a shot to give you some idea of the coarse nature of the ungraded surface ,this shot was taken about where the track would normally be.
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3040030.jpg?t=1205041171)

We sat around on the salt out there and had our little spiritual moment and lamented the fact that although where we were was probably fine for racing the track further down wasn't and besides there was no way to get a vehicle onto the lake...... sad but true....

In the back of the Toyota we had some FZR wheels that my good mate Tiny ( Generator shovel on landracing.com) had bought from free-bay and seeings how we were going the long way home we thought we could take them to him in Silverton way up near Broken Hill.....and seeings how we had them we figured we'd better take a few snaps of them....kind of like a "gnomes holiday shot"...

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3040043.jpg?t=1205047212)

we stayed at the members camp that night ..it was a raucous affair...lets just say when some people say they like to get away from civilization they have their own check-list.....leave the social mores behind but take a TV and a BBQ , some people seem to have a constant obsession with conquering the environment.....I copped an earful for mentioning various preferences with regard to where I stay when at Gairdner ( for the record that is next to the lake , on the sandy soil with the cold showers within walking distance of the canteen and earshot of the lake.....not at the members camp five dusty , rutted miles away with bore water showers )....... I can argue with drunk nutbags either in my line of work in the welfare sector or in my side line as a rock and roll musician so I just nodded and pretended that I was agreeing.That said it was good to see all the blokes I liked at the camp .... :roll:

The next day we headed west and north from the lake toward Woomera .  Another 160 miles of blazing hot sand road....we made a few stops like this one at the only road sign we saw...(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3050069.jpg)

We spotted a sturt Desert Pea the state floral emblem of South Australia a rare and beautiful little thing that grows in an environment that only salt bush seems to like....
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3050074.jpg?t=1205048949)
Woomera has a history as a testing range which has also included variious tracking stations including Island Lagoon and Nurungar...there's a rocket park where we saw some genuinely wierd home made looking stuff, well it looked home made ....turns out the air-force and the Army made it .....this is called a sea slug
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3050099.jpg?t=1205048988)

We stayed that night on the Northern edge of Island Lagoon...it was beautiful , the stars of course were incredible...the food, well.., the beer was cold but about two of those and it was nighty night after the hot and arduous days driving....this is a shot of Conical Hill in the north eastern arm of Island Lagoon. There are a lot of tributaries at this part of the lake and the salt as a result is just a thin crust.

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3050121.jpg?t=1205049030)

I spoke to the owners of Oakden station who run the pastoral lease on the eastern edge of Island Lagoon and was told that access was very limited and the boss was too busy to guide us out there...that was the part of the lake we thought may have the kind of surface that would be suitable for a track......We drove into the homestead anyway...it was murderously hot and red sand everywhere.......I'm glad i'm not a sheep!!

We decided we'd head up to Broken Hill, another 340 miles ...lots more salt bush...it was kind of manky in the truck , could have done with a razor and a mediator at times...

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3060222.jpg?t=1205049068)

At the "Hill" we headed up to Silverton and the famous Silverton Hotel ,the area where Mad MAx 2 or as you guys know it " The Road Warrior" was  filmed. Apart from being treated to a great feed of freshly caught fish we had a great nat with Chris Fraser the publican and his mate Trevor Clare who built and ran the stretched blown V8 bike at the lake ....of course Tiny showed up to collect his wheels and crap on with us , we had a great time I wish we could have stayed until Sunday when the recovery party for the Broken Hill St Patricks day races was to be held at the Pub....however while were there Chris had to exterminate some mosquitoes...he had just the thing....an 8/71 blown methanol big-block on a trolley...

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3060234.jpg?t=1205049106)

the next day we drove the 560 miles to Melbourne ...once again it wasn't  freezing

gee we had a time :wink:



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on March 09, 2008, 06:48:30 AM
I thought you guys were gonna go downtown , but you went uptown. :?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 09, 2008, 08:59:53 AM
so it would seem , so it would seem......sadly ,  well , I hate to disappoint anyone or unnecessarily raise their expectations.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: JackD on March 09, 2008, 09:54:44 AM
so it would seem , so it would seem......sadly ,  well , I hate to disappoint anyone or unnecessarily raise their expectations.
More could do better with the study of that lesson in personnel success.
 :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 09, 2008, 03:23:59 PM
Best tour of Australia that I've ever had.  Thanks for the good photos and fine commentary, Dr. G.  Some day -- some day -- Nancy and I will get there to see it all (and youse guys) in person.  In the meantime, you've given us a good hint of what to expect.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 09, 2008, 07:36:58 PM
Hi Slim , apart from permanent snow lines, active volcanoes and a lot of water we've got pretty much every type of climate and terrain here however it's nearly all around the coast ,and within a couple of hundred miles of it....the other 95% OK maybe 85 is desert every time I go out there it's driven home just how big and dry it is. You could spend a year out here traveling around the coast and never get bored , but the interior is an acquired taste.....a little bit of salt helps....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 09, 2008, 08:32:28 PM
Welcome home, and thanks for the travelogue - Your descriptions are great. 

The kind of trip you just took is something that would be tough to replicate in the US anymore.  We just don't have dirt roads anymore - not to that extent.  While it's fast, quick and convenient to set the cruise control on a four-lane divided highway, you'll see the forest, but miss the trees, or the Desert Pea. 

It looks still very wild, unclaimed and untamed.  And while it would have been great to be trailering a bike or a race car, I'd say you made the best of a bad situation, and you clearly came back with some pretty cool shots and stories. 

But next year, you race.   


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on April 04, 2008, 09:39:32 PM
Where have you blokes been---surely doesn't take a month to recuperate!!!!!!!!


Title: quiet time
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 05, 2008, 01:10:43 AM
Crikey! can't a bloke have a little  quiet time?.....we've been doing other stuff and haven't really done that much on the 'tank....however we did get the new steering wheel back from our tame fitter and turner Vaughn with the cap that he made for it........

Ladeeeeeeeez and Genermen! I give you ( drum roll please) a home made wheel.....hewn from  half inch Al plate..........

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P4050243.jpg)

I'm sitting here with a buzzing head , one of my earlier bands had a reunion last night ...we hadn't played for ten years , didn't have a rehearsal...just got up and went for it and no-one missed a cue....couple of hundred people ,it was a very moving experience ....it was like we'd never missed a day :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: generatorshovel on April 05, 2008, 02:54:57 AM
G'day thrillseekers,,,,you've done it now Doc G,,,the bush will soon be over run with revheads from the USA,,seeking to repair their souls.
My missus originates from Minnesota, and has notices a lot of OZ scenery reminds her of the USA, but adds our trees are just smaller,,as are we Aussies in general (must have a lot to do with the way we got here many years ago, if you ever tried standing up below deck on an 'ol wooden covict transport ship, you'd understand.
  On the build topic,,I finally started the FINAL assembly of the little Honda / Yamaha hybrid today, after sorting (re-designing actually) oiling system, after 3 months of forwards / backwards weekends I have good pressure where its needed, and good flow were it isn't.
Hopefully I'll get the engine fitted in the new frame tomorrow (again), and figure out an inlet manifold for the downdraught carb, the the finishing touches can be added to the frame, with the thought of minimizing tank slap inducing lateral flex.
 Thanks again Goggs, for delivering the salt encrusted wheels, who's tires are turning into a real pain to find.
Tiny


Title: Re: quiet time
Post by: mike mendoza on April 05, 2008, 01:46:19 PM
Crikey! can't a bloke have a little  quiet time?.....we've been doing other stuff and haven't really done that much on the 'tank....however we did get the new steering wheel back from our tame fitter and turner Vaughn with the cap that he made for it........

Ladeeeeeeeez and Genermen! I give you ( drum roll please) a home made wheel.....hewn from  half inch Al plate..........

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P4050243.jpg)

I'm sitting here with a buzzing head , one of my earlier bands had a reunion last night ...we hadn't played for ten years , didn't have a rehearsal...just got up and went for it and no-one missed a cue....couple of hundred people ,it was a very moving experience ....it was like we'd never missed a day :wink:
What era music did your band play?


Title: Re: quiet time
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 05, 2008, 04:36:18 PM
What era music did your band play?

er , music for deaf era's?.......style-wise we played what sounded half like what Elvis Costello would sound like if he was playing the Lynyrd Skynyrd songbook and at other times like the Stray Cats playing Dylan....... is that any help...? :-D


Title: Re: quiet time
Post by: Sumner on April 05, 2008, 05:36:51 PM
What era music did your band play?

er , music for deaf era's?.......style-wise we played what sounded half like what Elvis Costello would sound like if he was playing the Lynyrd Skynyrd songbook and at other times like the Stray Cats playing Dylan....... is that any help...? :-D

No, not for someone who is tone deaf  :-P, but after your last post I think if you guys start up again maybe the "Steering Wheels" might be a good name for the group  8-).

Hey vacation is over, back to work on the car, just 11 months to racing.  Your steering wheel looks a lot better than the one I just made.  The guy did good,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 05, 2008, 07:05:37 PM
Quote
Your steering wheel looks a lot better than the one I just made.  The guy did good,
actually the guy was me....Vaughn just made the centre cap and buffed the whole thing up a bit....I made the wheel. Now here is the part where I give away valuable trade secrets , some will shudder, others will pull on their boots and head directly to the workshop.

The first wheel we had was out of a Ford Laser which here , is a rebadged Mazda 323 .They're a  very flat wheel with a flat steel centre. I cut the top and bottom off it and then pulled the sides toward me giving a shape similar to the one shown ....neat idea but it looked pretty rough even by my standards.So I bought some half inch plate from the Aluminium merchant and started sketching it out. I found a round kitchen tray the same size as the Laser wheel and used it to give me the outside edges of the grips , then I used it give me the top and bottom concaves. So at this point I had the flat butterfly shape and it was just a case of using a hole saw to cut out the "finger-grips" and to jig-saw out the rest ( unless you've got a weldable band saw you can't cut closed circles with them).I drilled the spars and then filleted them with a coarse disc ,then I just bent them over a big anvil....rolling it would have been the go but hey why walk all the way to the next room for a screwdriver when I've got this butter knife right here in front of me...

Seriously though I did make a cardboard pattern to make sure the curves I had were right ,  but mostly it was a "feel" thing, I would definitely roll it next time but apart from that I'm happy with it and true to form it came up pretty quick...'bout two hours ....then Vaughn had it for about two months...LOL


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on April 05, 2008, 08:07:21 PM
Quote
Your steering wheel looks a lot better than the one I just made.  The guy did good,
actually the guy was me..................................LOL.....


Well in that case it looks like crap  :evil:.  Just kidding, YOU DID GOOD!!  Mine took longer and doesn't look as good  :cry: .

I guess the group isn't going to get a new name  :cry:,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on April 05, 2008, 08:25:33 PM
Dr,

What can I say!  Nothing... words will not express the beauty and skill applied in the making of this.  Very nice job on the wheel. 

Oh... I think I have a bit of your music here.  Let's see MP3, no... CD, no... oh over here, excuse the dust, cassette tape, hmm, no... wait here's the reel to reel, darn, what else...  8 track in the old 76 XJS.  Let me run out to look in the cubby.  Yes there it is!  Audio nirvana soon.  Buggers I'm out of beer!

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 05, 2008, 09:11:17 PM
Oh... I think I have a bit of your music here.  Let's see MP3, no... CD, no... oh over here, excuse the dust, cassette tape, hmm, no... wait here's the reel to reel, darn, what else...  8 track in the old 76 XJS.  Let me run out to look in the cubby.  Yes there it is!  Audio nirvana soon.  Buggers I'm out of beer!
Geo

ya know one of the great things about this forum are the little link-ups.....last night when I posted that mention about the band reunion we had I got a PM from a forum member.....he casually mentions a friend of his....who turns out to be one of my all-time favorite guitar players Adrian Belew....

" ah steering wheel Schmeering wheel..you mean to say ....YOU KNOW , HIM! :-o :-o" so this morning I've been sitting here listening to some of his efforts thinking " small world huh?"

.....btw Geo after Friday night the mere mention of beer made me shudder... :evil: the evening did not pass unrefreshed :roll: the reunion was brought on by the wedding tonight of the drummer ...he and the bass player both live in Brisbane ( 1000 miles away) now......me gets the feeling tonight could be , well , a little untidy...........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on April 09, 2008, 04:27:37 AM
And for anyone who is really interested

http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Warner%20Bros%20Reuniuon/

Dr Goggs is the one in the green t-shirt that on the front reads

four
door
Subaru
box

Grey


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on April 09, 2008, 09:56:09 AM
And for anyone who is really interested

http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Warner%20Bros%20Reuniuon/

Dr Goggs is the one in the green t-shirt that on the front reads

four
door
Subaru
box

Grey

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Warner%20Bros%20Reuniuon/P1010185.jpg)

Hey Doc I think I could handle drinking beer out of that size mug :-P .

I like the interior of the building and it looks like everyone was enjoying themselves.  Hope I get to hear something when I get over there.

c ya,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: jl222 on April 10, 2008, 12:36:55 AM

    You guys always make me thirsty.
    Keep up the good work and bottoms up.
        JL222


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 21, 2008, 09:55:46 PM
.......that I can only assume would be a thirst for knowledge and adventure....... :roll:......let's just say I'm well read....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on July 31, 2008, 04:38:04 AM
So we you haven't heard from Goggles for a while, it is because he is off in Europe looking at museums and old land speed stuff.
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: gazza414 on August 05, 2008, 04:57:20 PM
.......that I can only assume would be a thirst for knowledge and adventure....... :roll:......let's just say I'm well read....

apart from  that Stewie what ya up to...keepin outa trouble I hope


Title: the almost fergetted Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 02, 2008, 06:39:31 PM
apart from  that Stewie what ya up to...keepin outa trouble I hope

....Hear ye hear ye......after a not so brief hiatus...we get back out to the shed this weekend . I imagine the first session back with the car will involve some serious staring at it...then a bit of looking at each other " is this the car?" ....."yeah" ....."where do we start?"....."dunno".....there will no doubt be a serious amount of catching up to do .....I'll be back with some photo's of the small amount of progress this year and our slightly curtailed plans for world domination....or at least domination of our own back yards ..........

Hey , come on people , you've gotta have dreams, even if it's all you've got.......

DrG


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on September 02, 2008, 11:04:26 PM
Quote
...Hear ye hear ye......after a not so brief hiatus...we get back out to the shed this weekend . I imagine the first session back with the car will involve some serious staring at it...then a bit of looking at each other " is this the car?" ....."yeah" ....."where do we start?"....."dunno".....there will no doubt be a serious amount of catching up to do .....I'll be back with some photo's of the small amount of progress this year and our slightly curtailed plans for world domination....or at least domination of our own back yards


I'll bring the propeller


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on September 07, 2008, 09:48:39 PM
Guys

Good to have you back - what's the Reverend up to these days?

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on September 08, 2008, 12:36:33 AM
The Reverend is back on the block.

Been locked away for a year with a project with little time/access to email but now online again.

Looking forward to posting further reports on progress... and seeing sunlight.

Reverend R-gash





Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ol38y on September 08, 2008, 01:27:51 AM
Pardon my saying Rev., but what do you mean by locked away???   :mrgreen:

Are we talking outback?

Larry


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 08, 2008, 02:56:32 AM
Larry , they put him in jail for a litany of crimes, liking old English cars was the main brief, the federal crime of mutiple transmission of pictures of old buses, strange trucks and clapped out race trailers to
his Bellytank build partners,mentioning that he was considering building an electric vehicle and finally ,wearing hippie hats. :evil:

I'll let him describe the real reason he's been incommunicado , me? I've been studying , working and then I went overseas( I was worried that I had too much money saved up to spend on the car......) Now we have all pretty much run out of excuses.....except of course Grumm who's just gone and bought a sh**** old truck ..I mean a '41 Chev Pick-up.So, on Saturday I put some juice in the bellytank and fired her up....to quote Jon she shot ducks for a little while and then hummed away happily.....We're halfway through our new aluminium seat , the body needs to be painted , the extra fire systems need to be finalised , the chute system nailed ,we have to get the second hand trailer we bought roadworthy and registered and then we're prettymuch ready to go ...that should be easy ..... :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on September 08, 2008, 10:42:51 PM
Been up at the farm for a month (2.5 hours east of Melbourne) planting trees. It's volcanic country and so every spade hits an old rock. The neighbour digs holes with dynamite. I'd get him to do it but I might not have any windows left...

Prior to that I was working on a adult stop motion animation feature which will be released next year. I'll definately publish more details closer to release as we are mighty proud of it.

Back to designing theatre sets for the rich now...

revH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on September 08, 2008, 10:56:31 PM
RevH,

Now I know why you need to get away from it all and work on the tank. :wink:

Sorta like one of those immersion things... confined, close the hatch, dark, quiet, dreamy thoughts...

So, Dr. G we know about the Rev now.  What about you?  :-D

Geo

Glad you guys are back with us.  8-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on September 08, 2008, 11:25:02 PM
Exactly! You seem to know the pain. It was a 50 hour week locked up inside a black box, just me and the puppet for exactly one year.

My skin looks like the underside of a fish.

rH+



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 13, 2008, 06:33:48 PM
Well we made a start back on the tank yesterday, and it felt good.The lack of posting here has mirrored the lack of time on the 'tank .The Rev' has been filming a feature and I've been otherwise engaged studying ( an AoD diploma or,Alcohol and other Drugs work, yeah thanks everyone but that masters degree doesn't count) and saving my readies to go overseas.

We went to Pendine Sands in Wales thanks to a suggestion from Malcolm UK. This is the place where in 1924 Malcom Campbell set his first land speed record in his Sunbeam Bluebird of 146.16mph, we stayed at the Beach Hotel and visited the Pendine Sands Museum of Speed , it was a beautiful drive from London , perfect weather without a cloud in the sky , wildflowers out everywhere and the countryside was gorgeous , after seeing the beach I kind of regretted not bringing the bellytank....seven miles of hard packed sand....anyway heres a couple of old dungas that they've propped up in the museum...sheesh, get with the times guys  :roll:
(http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd358/cultural-cringe/P7270046.jpg)

(http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd358/cultural-cringe/P7270049-Copy.jpg)

In all seriousness these were beautiful pieces and my mate Frank who's got a thing for Broughs reckons that that particular one is the , er , business shall we say.....
The main gig at Pendine is Babs the car that JG Parry Thomas , a welshman, used to up the world LSR to 171.02mph and then 172.331mph in 1926 ,tragically Parry was killed a year later on the beach in a roll over and the car was buried nearby . In the late sixties Owen Wyn Owen requested and was granted permission to exhume the car and subsequently restored it to running condition.It's a curious looking thing.

(http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd358/cultural-cringe/P7270057.jpg)

Thanks again to Malcolm for the suggestion we had a top time.
anyway back to the task at hand....We've made a new seat for the 'tank because as the most sage Jack Dolan pointed out drivers "tend to grow over time"....Now, I weighed the same amount give or take 5% from 16 'til I was 41, it was Jack who said after seeing a photo of me with my "shirt" off that " it seems you've been spending all your lunch money on the car"..... :-D, building the bellytank seemed to be the cue for my metabolism to change and I've , shall we say, begun the middle aged spread( nah not vegemite but I did have some this morning and I'll hear none of your complaints)...the Rev was always a little bigger than me and I'd figured that if I watched my diet then at some point I wouldn't have to share the driving, that didn't work.Both of us were struggling to get into the car and we also thought that we could do a better job on the seat anyway. We made up a cardboard pattern ( as we always do) and found more width , more depth and managed a bit more accurate symmetry. Cut from 3mm Al plate the seat has a single bend ,a modest pad at the base and wider wings than what the last one did.
here it is( roughly tacked and not yet tabbed for attachment points so it ain't sitting exactly square).....

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P9140814.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on October 09, 2008, 03:40:19 AM
So show everyone some new tank stuff
 :mrgreen:
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: comp on October 09, 2008, 05:11:47 AM
waiting to see more  :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on October 27, 2008, 09:50:20 PM
So Dr G and I continued on the interior refitout to improve our fitting into the car last weekend.

The lowering of the seat with our new aluminium version (as pictured above) gives us an extra inch and a half clearance to get in and out.

I have found a new technique to get in, as I don't fold over too well across the middle anymore, so I slide my body towards the pedals a bit then lie down and push into the cockpit. This is easier than trying to bend under the rollbar and is quicker and less freaky.

This weekend was a slow one... Dr Go was more like Dr SloMo as he fought with a monster hangover which didn't necesarrily agree with the pounding of metal. Not just that though, we spent a fair bit of time adjusting the seat mounting so that it was true as it was marginally out at the end of our previous tank-day. It's all good now but it did take a long time and at the end of the day it feels like you did very little.

We did tidy up a few other trim bits and I have taken the padding home ready to cover with a 70's style black vinyl so the interior is starting to look good.

The body work is the major standout item still, need a few good solid days working on that to break its back. Christmas is coming and hopefully that will be the time to make that happen.

Hope all are well.

Reverend H+



Title: Is there a doctor in the house?
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 16, 2008, 09:54:07 PM
Hey all.

Bad news I'm afraid, Dr Goggles has been ploughed into by an unwatching motorist on his motorsickle yesterday.

He has broken his ankle and suffered some nasty cuts too. He is in hospital and will be having an operation tomorrow.

I am sure he would appreciate some club support when he gets connected again, so get those textas out and draw him some pretty pictures as get well cards, write him a song, or blah and send them to me and I'll get them to him:

Dik
co/ studio505
level 1 395 lt Lonsdale st
Melbourne 3000
Australia

Reverend H+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on November 16, 2008, 11:01:58 PM
Rev H,
So sorry to hear about our mate Dr G getting dinged by an inattentive driver.  Hope he is doing well, keep us posted with his condition and tell him we are thinking about him.  Tell  him to hobble to a computer and log on....  :wink:
Get better Dr G....  8-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 16, 2008, 11:31:42 PM
He is in hospital so might be a while before he logs on, hence the card concept.

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 1212FBGS on November 16, 2008, 11:38:46 PM
hey rev
is that exactually how we should put the addy on the envelope?
Kent


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on November 16, 2008, 11:42:33 PM
Right!  It's my understanding Dr G will do anything to get where the girls are!  :-D

We should get a pool for the nurses to be sure the best are taking car of him.  That's correct; I didn't say pretty or ugly.  Which will it be?  :evil:

Ask the surgeons if you can drive a tanker after the operation.

Get well soon.  Don't let them mess with your funny bone.

Geo


Title: Dr no-go
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 16, 2008, 11:53:11 PM
The address is real (lt stands for Little) and write it like that and it will get to me.

Nurses shouldn't be a problem... he's got a new missus, that will be a problem!!! Not sure if he'll be allowed to ride again...

We'll know more tomorrow.

rH+



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 18, 2008, 09:28:12 PM
Spoke to Stewie this morning, he sounds almost normal(!)

Hasn't had the operation yet but should have it this arvo. Apparently both his tibia and fibia are broken and have "removed themselves from the joint to the foot." He will be annoying a few metal detectors from now on.

eek.

He may also need a skin graft too.

ouch

The story is that he came out of his driveway and turned right. At the first intersection a car came out and T-boned him, the lucky thing was he wasn't fully up to speed so the second impact was light.


Not being a simple break it is currently unknown how long he will be out of action. The good news is it is his right leg so it is only the go-fast button on the car not that  other one which is tricky to push even when you are fully assembled.

We have scheduled the next "tankday" for 2 weeks. He can point at things from a chair for me to do to get ready for March.


I'll let him fill in the details of the driver as he has the gift of the word things.

reverend H+








Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 20, 2008, 03:43:44 AM
So Goggles has just come out of surgery and is in the recovery room.
This would be a pic of him just before, the button is for patient controlled analgesia (Morphine button)
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/prc_photography/20112008.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on November 20, 2008, 10:26:09 AM
He looks good in a dress, he should wear one more often... LOL
Nothing like a little Morphine to lift the spirits, dang Drs usually regulate how much you can give yourself.  Bummer
Good to see he is in good hands, now how about a few pics of the nurses....  :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredvance on November 20, 2008, 11:08:19 AM
I call that the happy button. :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 20, 2008, 05:54:59 PM
I took a snap of the Doc's nurse.

We might be in trouble...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: landsendlynda on November 20, 2008, 06:07:22 PM
Does this mean we don't pay the ransom when he throws the sink out the window?  :roll:

Lynda


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on November 21, 2008, 09:11:29 AM
Unh, I don't know.  Notice the diabolical look in her eyes. I betcha she's got her finger on the button that administers poison ivy juice to the patient.  Don't trust her for a minute, Dr. G!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: manta22 on November 21, 2008, 01:42:05 PM
That photo looks like a 3/8" ratchet to me.  :-D

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 21, 2008, 09:31:40 PM
That photo looks like a 3/8" ratchet to me.  :-D

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


I would have thought 1/2"
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredvance on November 22, 2008, 10:24:27 AM
Kinda looks like the camera felt on my first(no sedation) colonoscopy! :-o


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 24, 2008, 07:03:14 PM
Thanks everyone , I'm back at home.

I was lucky to escape with what injuries I got as although it was a low speed crash I was completely blind-sided by a car that had been stationary when I saw it but then accelerated straight across the road as I looked away hitting me on the right, I was changing into 2nd,50 feet from my house. I have some screws in my right ankle and fortunately no skin-graft.

I'm not bitter , I'm happy to be home, grateful for my good fortune and know well that I could easily have been significantly worse off, life is good and I'm part of it.

 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 24, 2008, 07:58:11 PM
Welcome home, Doc, and a speedy recovery to you.  My mother-in-law calls scooters "donor-cycles" - we're all glad it didn't get that far.

Take your time and heal up, no tap dancin' for the short term. 

Your guitar fingers still working?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on November 24, 2008, 11:45:39 PM
now dont get to deep in the FOSTERS!!!!!!!!!! :cheers:-glad you are home and BACK!!!!!!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 25, 2008, 03:24:36 AM
Kinda looks like the camera felt on my first(no sedation) colonoscopy! :-o

Ouch
That's too much information thanks Fred

now dont get to deep in the FOSTERS!!!!!!!!!! :cheers:-glad you are home and BACK!!!!!!!! :cheers:

Nobody in Australia drinks Fosters. It's for export, thankfully

Grumm


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on November 25, 2008, 09:04:38 AM
Are you trying to tell me that you guys are as bad as --US---exporting your bad stuff--especially our bad habits & vices---lol


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ol38y on November 25, 2008, 09:51:06 AM
Hey Doc, glad you're home and on the mend.

You'll probably have to stay off the VB for a while but the stuff the other Doctor will get you is far better.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredvance on November 25, 2008, 10:08:54 AM
Hey Doc, glad to head your OK, sort of.Heal fast March is sneaking up on you fast.  Fred


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 25, 2008, 05:27:23 PM
Are you trying to tell me that you guys are as bad as --US---exporting your bad stuff--especially our bad habits & vices---lol

You forget that we are a whole nation of transported vices.

Whatever we send on is then the Alcatraz of vices.

As the Colonel said, NOBODY drinks Fosters here, (except tourists).

Speaking of which... I'm gonna be in Utah in January... any events on I should check out?

Reverend H+



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: John Noonan on November 25, 2008, 05:37:51 PM
James,

Glad you are Ok and will mend properly..

J


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on November 25, 2008, 05:45:56 PM
Doctor G:

If you had been riding prone your legs would have been above the impact point.

nmaD, why didn't you think of that. Get well faster.

Naked and Prone,

FREUD


Title: ABT laughter is the best medicine
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 25, 2008, 06:47:29 PM
Thank you yeast and hop fans one and all but for some reason , I don't feel like drinking beer ...or eating chocolate....... Now take note that that didn't say fizzy drinks or anything with alcohol in it...so shut-up, fetch my sticks and get me that wottle of biskey.

The food in there was a book unto itself....I like my food and I like to cook so I have a bit of an interest in the subject , in short, out of each meal they specialized in making an offensive smell out of one of the items from the meal and infusing that smell through everything else with it.The acrid taste of burnt potato?.....yeah ,I'll have some of that in my dessert and while you're there can you put some in the half cooked scalloped potatoes just for nostalgia value. Gaseous broccoli ?, just a dash in my salad...oh , ok put it in the custard.....in the turkey? gee I didn't think of that...Pumpkin that smells like cow manure ? oh my....how do you do it you little devils?......, on everything thanks....and on the chicken too please ,and then can you dry the chicken out so it immediately grabs all the saliva out of my mouth like two whole dry weet-bix so I can't chew it , can't swallow it and CAN BARELY EVEN SPIT IT OUT!!....that was a bad experience.....needless to say I lost weight in there and it wasn't just the rapid muscle wastage from being bed bound ....some of my middle age spread ....ebbed.

When I was in the Golden Staph Hotel (hospital )I could read the forum but not post and every time I saw Fred's mention of COLONOSCOPY :-o :-o I had to laugh...my brother sent me a link to this blog by Aussie writer Jack Marx who is very good and irreverent, in it someone has posted an article by Dave Barry (US) about his colonoscopy experience .If like me you've had one then you'll laugh your a** off , if you haven't had one , go and get one because bum cancer is low on the preferred list of exit options , and then read it....

here is the whole blog,I'd suggest reading the whole lot however if you're in  a hurry the Dave Barry article is about 2/5 of the way down.....it's hilarious and right on the money....oh dread, cower and cringe..........
http://blogs.news.com.au/jackmarxlive/index.php/news/comments/gastronoscopy/

some time soon I'll get back to the shed and building  and preparing for next years meet.....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 25, 2008, 06:52:47 PM
Doctor G:

If you had been riding prone your legs would have been above the impact point.

nmaD, why didn't you think of that. Get well faster.

Naked and Prone,

FREUD
thing was Freud , I'd said to a few people ...."it was so quiet I could have ridden to supermarket in the nude and no-one would've seen me, speaking of which..don't listen to the Rev. he'll have no time spare in Utah....those nude Olympics are pretty busy affairs I hear...........and thanks JN , I will.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on November 25, 2008, 07:38:04 PM
I just posted a CD of Cheer to you. Whatever time it takes to arrive should have you in the proper state to spend 10 - 12 hours looking at the images.

I don't tolerate any of your "down under" excuses. Just get recuperated. We may have to have you fellows fix our urine sterilizer in the Space Station since beer is too heavy to handle with the robotic arm the Canadians built for us.

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 25, 2008, 08:55:49 PM
Doesn't help when your mechanics throw away $100 000 tool kits...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on November 25, 2008, 10:20:03 PM
That was $300 of tools in a $9700 bag with shipping of $90,000 to make $100000.  I would ask for a replacement set to be sent to the station because of faulty tether design.  They also loose dutz fasteners on the salt during holiday.

I prefer a malt beverage.

Glad you are feeling better.  Wait for reality  :-o


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on November 27, 2008, 08:44:44 PM
Good to see you back and hope you the best,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 27, 2008, 09:01:22 PM
Thanks Sum ( and anyone else who has posted)
Evelyn rang me when I was lounging around the morphine Meridian snacking on delights and generally making the most of the facilities and told me that you and yours had shown she and Bones a great old time when they went to BUB...even convincing Ol' Bones to go for a hike when Ev' told me he's a "walk shy lounger" .......one day one day........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on November 27, 2008, 10:01:28 PM
Thanks Sum .................... .......one day one day........

Hey I look forward to that day, but don't forget I'm in the "old man" category, so you had better make it over here sooner vs. later.  Ruth and I are already making plans to be over there in 2010, so we can also do the Street Rod nationals also that takes place every other year,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: bones on November 29, 2008, 01:55:58 AM
Hey Doc
   Sum was easy to keep up with....he's old :-D I just set my personal ecu to fast and we did have a great time.Ev's hanging out to go back
   cheers Bones


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 29, 2008, 11:39:39 PM
Hey Doc
   Sum was easy to keep up with....he's old :-D I just set my personal ecu to fast and we did have a great time.Ev's hanging out to go back
   cheers Bones

Excellent , now, aren't you supposed to be out in the shed......I hear the 'liner is going to be adapted for the jixer motor that is in the jixer that you're building for the boss......she gave me all the goss......sounds like a good idea to me...that old three pot piston cooker ( no offence stevie)would just be a hassle in a liner ....and there's a whole cast of people writing off nice fresh jixers as a source of motors.......is it a thou or a seben-fiddy?

And of course I'd forgotten you'd gone to electronic ignition.(http://blog.lib.umn.edu/khamd002/architecture/pacemaker.jpg)....no dizzy spells anymore :-D :-D....sorry couldn't help meself there.....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 04, 2008, 01:36:49 AM
Thanks to everyone for the letters, very touched.

Got a new plaster on it....they won't remove it for another FIVE WEEKS, that was a bit of a shock....put in a mile on the crutches on Tuesday....upper body strength is building fast....hoping to get back to work on Monday week , fortunately I have a very accommodating boss.

Once again thanks everyone for the support it is much appreciated.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on January 02, 2009, 11:00:46 PM
What is up with you 2?????????????


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 07, 2009, 11:55:41 PM
Thanks Sparky for the question, answer: I have been in hospital for most of the Christmas break. Nothing wrong with me it's everyone else who is getting crushed by something!

First Dr G get's collected by a car, then my next door neighbour split his thumb with a hydraulic log splitter (lengthwise... ouch!!) then on Christmas day my mother-in-law decides to have a stroke. All pretty much better now but somewhat scarred.

So hopefully now that they all are out we can move on some work, except I am going to the States for two weeks starting this weekend, visiting Sumner (hi Sum!), and then afterwards we can finish this puppy!

Our chalkboard (pictured previously) now has the item of properly secure fire extinguisher ticked off. Apparently the original pipe clip retainers will soon not be legal for us and so we have built a stronger 3mm steel bracket to secure them.

We now have the pipework servicing the engine block, the fuel tank (right at the back of the car) and the heads plumbed. I have fashioned a billet (eek!) bracket for mounting a jet for the face which is our final one to be rigged. All bottles have been supplied by Cold Fire who makes a product that is colourless and suitable for use on the salt and National park and Aboriginal property.

This year the car will be ready again to go with the items to be completed being:

  • Need to refix seatbelt seats after making lower seat
    Need to wire up tacho (Colonel!)
    Need to align wheels
    Need to paint appropriate signage on the car

The bodywork tidy up will again be rough, but hopefully a step ahead of its last outing at Mangalore. Gees where does a year and a bit  go?

The good old staff truck will also need a tidy up, the old ChevC30 motorhome had some dork break the driver's window and it needs some new tyres (this truck just seems to eat them...). It will be important to have some decent accomodation as the LAdy 'Gash will be seven months pregnant.  (We know it's a girl so I am think Formula One, start her off in carting at the farm as soon as possible then work up...)

Looking forward to seeing some snow over there before heading back to the desert over here (weather permitting!!!)

rev H+





Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 08, 2009, 12:02:27 AM
............ visiting Sumner (hi Sum!),.........rev H+

Just sent you an e-mail back with some driving instructions.  Have a good trip over,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: interested bystander on January 08, 2009, 12:11:31 AM
Reading these recent posts, I wuz gonna make a comment about you antipodean (sp) folks and your poor health, but after thinking about it I realize that here in SoCal all my pals who used to talk about Hotrods and Honeys now now talk about Hotrods and Health -usually theirs! It must be universal.

Life is, after all -bending the wire back and forth or bumping the timing a bit more -  and eventually . . ..



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 08, 2009, 01:01:31 AM
...and eventually the wire breaks?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on January 08, 2009, 09:29:40 AM
You guys have a great visit---that SUM guy is a popular destination!!!!!!! :cheers:

Snow may or may not fall on you---but I guarantee you will be able to see it in the distance!!!!!!! :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on January 08, 2009, 09:58:07 AM
You guys have a great visit---that SUM guy is a popular destination!!!!!!! :cheers:

Snow may or may not fall on you---but I guarantee you will be able to see it in the distance!!!!!!! :-D

Didn't you forget he may not be "in the middle of no where" but you can see it in the distance too....  :-D  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 10, 2009, 05:00:06 PM
Ok, I got a text from the Rev this morning with a picture of the good lady standing next to a rag top late model Mustang....that they've hired....God help us.. :roll: :roll:

Anyways, yes we, I ,have been scarce on here...I've been lurking but to be honest I have little to report about the car...my focus has been the ankle...I got back to work and my days are currently filled with that and talking to the insurance company.......bless 'em , it's easier to make a kid eat broccoli than get them to do something they're supposed to do( and before anyone pipes up with the whole "They're running a business like everybody else and if they didn't care about profit/loss they wouldn't be there" they're a government outfit funded by a compulsory component of(~60%)registration and they make huge profits)...I've paid nearly thirty years of rego on more than one vehicle and I've NEVER hurt myself or anyone else in a car or bike...enough of that..

I'm not walking yet, I have a moon boot but can't weight bear fully yet and have very limited movement in the ankle so far...nearly made it through last week without painkillers but Friday was a shocker , the problem is I work in the drug and alcohol rehab field and one of the painkillers I'm taking makes me itch like someone in withdrawl, the only thing that stops the itching has me falling asleep constantly....you can see the problems with that :oops: :oops:

After the cars run at Mangalore airfield in 06 I stripped the bodywork.........given that the climate control in the "research and development facility" is Al Fresco I try not to paint during winter, then I was overseas, then I had the accident.....at present there are various odd shaped pieces of aluminium bodywork doubling as garden sculpture all over the back yard...the front part of the tub sits forlornly under the lemon tree...filling with lemons, the canopy sits on our Sea-Fury tank,making it look like something is happening......meanwhile Speedweek 09 bears down upon us.

I did solve one of the problems we'd been fighting with and that was our new seat , relocated harness mounts and how to mount the hip belts .We are sitting on the floor basically , in the old format we could JUST get the mounts far enough away to get proper tension. TCALSS we will loop the belts around the lower frame rail in order to extend the distance between the mount and the buckle...a small step but an important one.....where we were looking at the new mount there is no space, no height above the deck and no width in the frame :? :? so mounting the anchor higher and then going down and around the lower frame rail may be our only solution.

We still have lots and lots of little stuff to do, right now I need a back pack to carry anything more than a few steps which slows everything and makes using a spray gun out of the question.....but, I'll get there.

Right now I reckon the Rev and the good lady Hedgash are lost somewhere in LA , talking to a cop...."whaddayamean you were driving on the wrong side of the road because you got confused" , or staring absent mindedly under the bonnet of that Ford........get ready Sum :wink:


Title: Good news on Lake Gairdner
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 17, 2009, 07:38:14 PM
Last night Rob Carroll President of the DLRA posted the following on the club's message board , it is encouraging and also highlights that the motivation for restricting access to the lake is far different to what most people believed.This is still a sensitive topic but it looks like there may be a positive outcome in sight. Here is Rob's letter

This week I have traveled to Port Augusta to attend a meeting with the representatives of the Gawler Ranges Native Title Group. I attended this meeting with Robert (Doc) Murdock, who organised the meeting through an aboriginal who he previously employed. On Thursday the three of us traveled out to the Gawler Ranges National Park for the meeting.
This meeting was very productive in two ways, the first being to meet them in person, the second being to explain our situation and what we need to get our meeting happening and them explain to us what they need to eliminate the threat of mining on Lake Gairdner. This threat is the reason we have not been granted a permit yet. They are concerned if we go on the lake for speed trials, the miners will use this as leverage to get what they want, and that is to test drill holes in the lake.
To help them they have asked us to write a letter to the Minister demonstrating our objections to any mining of any kind on Lake Gairdner. There are other conditions involved as well, but no big deal. I have agreed to write the letter which the committee will do early next week.
Doc and myself have been invited to a subsequent meeting in Adelaide possibly Jan 28 or 29 or as soon as the Minister commits to a date. At this meeting we are hoping the Minister will agree to no destruction of the lake. If that happens we may be granted a permit for March.

The previous week we were greeted by a post from our WebMaster that was very exciting.......here

Rod just rang to say that Andy Green (yes, THE ANDY GREEN, current holder of the World Land speed record) had telephoned him today. Andy was at Sydney airport on his way back to the UK.

For those that have been living under the proverbial rock, Andy's team have built a new car, the BLOODHOUND and have been traveling the world checking out the 20 odd sites that they have determined suitable for their exploits (read better than 714MPH).

Andy was at Lake Gairdner yesterday and they drove a Land Cruiser some 5 miles over the lake. There is some surface water that is being blown around by the strong winds that we have all experienced and a few soft spots. In his opinion the Lake is in very good condition, especially for this time of the year and he has indicated that it is the best place in the world that they have seen, bar none. They want to make their attempt at Lake Gairdner.

Rod has made Andy aware of our current situation and is forwarding all the information to him. He has promised to give the Federal and State Government contacts a fair old pasting and bring them up to speed, so to speak. It's fantastic to have some one of his profile going in to bat for us, especially at this time.

There is a meeting at Lake Gairdner next week between Government agency officials and the Indigenous representatives. The DLRA may be asked to attend by have not received an invitation yet.

The darkest hour is just before the dawn......

So that"s where our race meet stands at the moment, in the meantime my leg is getting better , this morning I carried two plates to the table.....hobbling ,but it's a big step and has me thinking I'll be off the crutches within a month.I'm off to the shed today. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ol38y on January 17, 2009, 08:48:54 PM
Good on ya James.

Glad to hear your leg's on the mend as well. Ya know you can race bar stools at World of Speed huh... :cheers:


Title: The Rev is back!
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 27, 2009, 11:57:41 PM
Wow, you guys sure have a big country!

Well, it's only a little bit bigger than ours but how it differs is that around every corner it seems to be amazingly different, whereas ours is the same for thousands of miles at a time...

We had a fantastic time in the US and made many friends. We were a bit weirded out at first as everyone seemed TOO friendly, (anyone read Watership Down?) but we found that was the American way and it was good.

We visited Sumner and were delighted to meet someone who has been a great help and support to us as we have been building on similar timelines over the past 5 years.

Below is a photo of me squeezing into his streamliner. His home built workshop is bigger than ours, with better tools, a groovy greenhouse to help heating in Winter and a flat floor(!)

Sum took us out to see some 700 year old Indian Pueblos and Ruth cooked up a storm with a delicious Shrimp pasta. Our stay there was a highlight of our trip. Thanks Sum and Ruth!

Another Highlight was the vehicle. I hired a standard Mustang soft top for the trip but it wasn't ready when we arrived so we were UPGRADED to the Shelby GT-H unit.

Now all I can say is this car rocks!! 300+ horse power, it has what I think is the most successful retro designs going around with an appropriate tip of the hat to the style of the old but being unabashedly modern (except for the live rear axle!)

With the top down driving through the canyons of Arches or Zion National Parks was a fantastic experience.

With Peak Oil fast approaching, I felt that this would be one of the last chances to do that great dream of a major V8 road trip across the US, and it was a great success. The weather was great, snow on the ground but clear skies making it the best of both worlds.

Our trip was a round trip of 2200 miles from LA to PArk City and back, taking in route 66, the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Blanding, Arches and Canyonland, Bryce and Zion and of course Las Vegas (what a crazy place!)

Below is a picture of the beast at Arches our favorite location on this trip.

Sorry I didn't get to meet more of the LAndracing fraternity, but rest assured I'll be back with Dr Go in a few years hopefully with the tank.

All the best

Reverend H+

Oh and for the record it's 42degrees celcius today, thats over a 107F in old school and we have a forecast of four more days of this temp. Looks like it is going to be underwear only in the garage this weekend in preparation for Aussie Speedweek...






Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on January 28, 2009, 10:12:21 AM
Rev, when were you here? You could have stopped at the Rodge Mahal and seen my Tank. I have beer too. Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on January 28, 2009, 05:21:25 PM
Hey we had a great time with the two of you.  Come back any time and hopefully we will get over there also.  I'm glad you enjoyed Arches, it is a nice up close personal place to go to.

The best of luck to you guys in a month,

Ruth and Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 28, 2009, 05:26:31 PM
Rev, when were you here? You could have stopped at the Rodge Mahal and seen my Tank. I have beer too. Wayno

an opportunity sadly missed. :cry:


Title: Re: The Rev is back!
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 28, 2009, 06:44:09 PM
I hired a standard Mustang soft top for the trip but it wasn't ready when we arrived so we were UPGRADED to the Shelby GT-H unit.
A bitter disappointment, I'm sure! :cheers: 
Kind of like the game Monopoly - "Banking error in your favor - collect $200.00". :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 28, 2009, 09:47:50 PM
Wayno, it would have been great to visit, we probably drove past your door if you are in the middle of Utah...

We arrived back 2 days ago.

Next time, keep the beer cold!

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on January 28, 2009, 11:35:14 PM
So you're telling me I'll have to drink the entire batch of Porter I just bottled?  :cry: Well OK. I mean it's just 5 gallons.  :cheers: It really is all my fault. I've been working on the Racer and haven't been posting much. I shall endeavor to do better. Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on January 28, 2009, 11:45:35 PM
So you're telling me I'll have to drink the entire batch of Porter I just bottled?  :cry: Well OK. I mean it's just 5 gallons.  :cheers:  Wayno

Wayno, I can easily provide a home for a cool (not cold) Porter.... shall I PM you with a shipping address  :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 29, 2009, 12:29:57 AM
I did sample some of your state's beer though, so much for being a dry state! I even bought a Utah brewery's "Polygamy Porter" hoodie to wear...

Indeed, why stop at just one?

 :cheers:

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: landsendlynda on January 29, 2009, 10:31:54 AM
If you stop at just one beer in our state, you've only had 1/2 of a beer...takes at least 2 bottles to equal 1 "full" flavor beer.

Lynda


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on January 29, 2009, 11:55:08 AM
Wayno, I can easily provide a home for a cool (not cold) Porter.... shall I PM you with a shipping address  :roll:
If I have any left,  :roll: I'll bring you one at Speedweek. You too Lynda. :lol: Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: landsendlynda on January 29, 2009, 11:56:23 AM
 :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 29, 2009, 01:34:09 PM
Rev, where'd you find the hoodie?  We've got a buddy that has been given a t-shirt by us -- but the hooded shirt might be a nice gift for next time around.  Our purchase was made in an out-back convenience coffee shop/bakery -- but that's the ONLY place we had seen the shirts.

Speaking of your visit -- did you travel on Utah Scenic Byway 12 -- from Torrey to Bryce Canyon?  I'd expect so -- and hope so.  I think it holds hands-down the all-time greatest road status.  Simply stunning visuals.  Nancy and I have enjoyed that road about a half-dozen times -- and always try to ride it once more when we're in the neighborhood.

Best -


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: roygoodwin on January 29, 2009, 02:32:21 PM
SSS -- try looking at http://www.wasatchbeers.com/ 


Title: highway 12
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 29, 2009, 06:23:56 PM
Thanks Roy, that is exactly wear I purchased the Hoodie, Park City Main Street, at the Wasatch Brewery. They have a good one for the ladies too.

Slim...Highway 12? Wow! We certainly did drive it, one of the best drives in the world I'd say.

The Devils Backbone section of Highway 12 is pretty cool, it's right on the ridge (see photo below). There is an old road between Escalante and Boulder that I would like to drive next time when it isn't icy...

We stayed at Boulder for the night (unfortunately the devils backbone grill was closed for the season, we had heard good reports about its local cuisine...) but the lodge there was great. Sat in the hot tub surrounded by snow looking at the stars. Just what you need after that drive!

Below are some photos of that stretch.


Title: highway 12
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 29, 2009, 06:24:49 PM
and another


Title: highway 12
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 29, 2009, 06:26:18 PM
last one. Amazing scenery. As I said, great with the top down.

rH+


Title: Gairdner update
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 02, 2009, 04:56:56 PM
Hi everyone this was posted yesterday on the DLRA site by Rob Carroll our President...........

Time for an update. I understand the membership feels left in the dark about what is happening with the permit to use the lake. I have tried to keep everyone updated as best I can through the forum (on the offline area).You must understand that these negotiations involve much more that just DLRA using Lake Gairdner. They are more about keeping the lake in pristine condition forever, so we and others can enjoy the lake not only for Land Speed Racing but also for the awesome natural beauty there. This lake and surrounding area holds a huge amount of significance to the local indigenous people and they are adamant it will not be destroyed.
My report on the meeting we went to on jan 15 in the Gawler Ranges can be read on the offline area. Today, Feb 2, I received a phone call from the Native Title Claimants Solicitor advising me of a meeting in Port Augusta on Feb 13, which I am invited to. He said attitudes are changing positively, (for us and his clients), so I am hoping for a good outcome. Be aware that we still cannot have Speed Week until we obtain the permit. The committee is continuing preparations for speed week and I suggest anyone wanting to attend Speed Week exercise some patience while we try to sort out the permit. I will post more information as it becomes available and more discussion will undoubtedly take place at the meeting next Sunday in Melbourne, so those members that can attend, I will see you there.
Rob Carroll President DLRA #12

It is five minutes to midnight, the event hangs in the balance for this year. The last two years of cancellations have taken their toll on the club and have knocked the stuffing out of anybody who'd thought about bringing anything from overseas.

I'd love to say that our bellytank is sitting in the trailer waitinfg for the day to leave ...the reality is it's still got a lot to do...as it stands we might have twelve months to finish it.

I'll keep you up to date.


Title: Re: Gairdner update
Post by: Sumner on February 02, 2009, 05:14:21 PM
Hi everyone this was posted yesterday on the DLRA site by Rob Carroll our President...........

Time for an update. I understand the membership feels left in the dark about what is happening with the permit to use the lake. I have tried to keep everyone updated as best I can through the forum (on the offline area).You must understand that these negotiations involve much more that just DLRA using Lake Gairdner. They are more about keeping the lake in pristine condition forever, so we and others can enjoy the lake not only for Land Speed Racing but also for the awesome natural beauty there. This lake and surrounding area holds a huge amount of significance to the local indigenous people and they are adamant it will not be destroyed.
My report on the meeting we went to on jan 15 in the Gawler Ranges can be read on the offline area. Today, Feb 2, I received a phone call from the Native Title Claimants Solicitor advising me of a meeting in Port Augusta on Feb 13, which I am invited to. He said attitudes are changing positively, (for us and his clients), so I am hoping for a good outcome. Be aware that we still cannot have Speed Week until we obtain the permit. The committee is continuing preparations for speed week and I suggest anyone wanting to attend Speed Week exercise some patience while we try to sort out the permit. I will post more information as it becomes available and more discussion will undoubtedly take place at the meeting next Sunday in Melbourne, so those members that can attend, I will see you there.
Rob Carroll President DLRA #12

It is five minutes to midnight, the event hangs in the balance for this year. The last two years of cancellations have taken their toll on the club and have knocked the stuffing out of anybody who'd thought about bringing anything from overseas.

I'd love to say that our bellytank is sitting in the trailer waitinfg for the day to leave ...the reality is it's still got a lot to do...as it stands we might have twelve months to finish it.

I'll keep you up to date.

Sorry to hear all of this.  I feel for you guys.   :cry:

Thanks for the picture.  I just loved that picture the first time I saw it.  Also thanks for the part off your tank that will go into my lakester somewhere.  I told the Rev I would send you a piece of mine also once I start cutting the tanks up.  We will be "blood lakester brothers"  :-D.

c ya and keep us posted,

Sum


Title: Blood bros
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 02, 2009, 07:00:03 PM
Also thanks for the part off your tank that will go into my lakester somewhere.  I told the Rev I would send you a piece of mine also once I start cutting the tanks up.  We will be "blood lakester brothers"  :-D.
c ya and keep us posted,
Sum
......just in case anyone is wondering the REv took a piece of the aluminium Canberra tank we used for our bodywork to Sum when he visited so as to incorporate it into his car somewhere....... blood brothers so to speak...... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 02, 2009, 07:06:21 PM
Hoping for a positive response from the authorities.  Assuming a thumbs-up, how's the salt looking this year?  I know it's been hot and dry by you, Dr. G!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 02, 2009, 07:35:26 PM
It's been scorching in South Australia for the past few weeks which must have gotten rid of some moisture but thunderstorms are predicted in the nnext week which may put it all back...

We don't know until we know...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: dwarner on February 02, 2009, 10:21:30 PM
Tough break for the DRLA guys. I hope everything works out well.

Keep positive thoughts,
DW


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 03, 2009, 01:57:14 AM
Thanks Dan
I get the feeling that this is going to thin the ranks just at the point that the event was building momentum. Some would say that isn't necessarily a bad thing because there were complaints that the club was struggling to cope with the number of entries, but what is a worry is that it may deplete the leadership ranks and the gradual passing around of the information and experience of running the event.... Successive successful annual events encourage people to get involved in the management of it and increase the enthusiasm for racers, spectators and volunteers. If it is cancelled this year then it will be four years since we've had an event and the "running knowledge" will be dim in the memory.......there are people like us who've got rides built for LSR and nothing else....we have no other event, as yet. Our enthusiasm hasn't dimmed but the urgency definitely has.......it will be a blow if we don't run in '09.

We are years behind where we thought we'd be , but that's the nature of it , innit?



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: dwarner on February 03, 2009, 12:34:50 PM
That is the same problem we had in the 70s at Bonneville and El Mirage, low entry count.

After the '82 & '83 rainouts at Bonneville AS SCTA president I felt that we MUST have a race. IIRC in 1984 we ran in Sept. A hard rain the night before the event was to start required that we move the start line down two miles giving us a short course only. The rain returned after only 2 1/2 days and cancelled the remainder of the meet. Seven of us picked up the whole mess in a couple of inches of water.

DW



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: interested bystander on February 12, 2009, 12:28:38 AM
I'm sure yrs truly echos the thoughts of a lot of us in the USA who have  compasssion for the Aussie fire victems in what I call is our 51st state ( just a little bit South and West of Califorina).


Title: Bushfires
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 12, 2009, 05:52:01 PM
Thanks IB.

We cancelled our tank build day last weekend because I was at our farm finalising its defences against the Weerite fire.

We were lucky that is all I can say, no amount of preparation can stop a fire in that heat and wind if it is on line with your house, it is simply like a blowtorch and will get into any crack.

The fire near us went between two houses, took some sheds and silage, then leapt over the highway and continued past our farm a kilometer away and into open ground.

A slightly different start location or wind direction and it would have had us. Our farmhouse is an all timber 1906 Victorian, and is dry as tinder after 10 years of drought (the doors open well though, that's a plus!) It was started by overloaded powerlines.

They reckon 300 + will be the final death toll with over 1000 houses gone already. Add that to the 35 lost a month ago and the fact we are only in the middle of the fire season and you get the picture.

Although the fire near us is technically under control, the ground itself is on fire. There is peat in the ground and they don't expect it to be truly our for another month or so. The last fire we had here, two years ago, kept sprouting up out of the ground a long way away after quite a few weeks.

The weather has been kinder the last few days but is expected to go back into the 30's next week. It's the wind though that is the problem with low humidity.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: landsendlynda on February 12, 2009, 06:09:53 PM
I'm so glad you and yours are safe, Rev!  We (me and mine) are thankful nothing worse happened to you.  Our thoughts and prayers are with all of you and hope the fires will soon be under control.  Do all you can to keep yourself safe.

Lynda


Title: Re: Bushfires
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 12, 2009, 06:59:49 PM
Hey, Rev -

Thanks for the update - the feeds from the ABC and the BBC have been frightening, and we're concerned about everyone in the area.  The Good Doctor mentioned heat in the 46 C range (that's about 114 F degrees for those of us here in the States)  That's the type of heat you'll see in Arizona in August, but combined with the withering vegetation in your part of Australia, it's got to be like living in a tinderbox.

I'm with Lynda - our thoughts and prayers are with all of you.

Chris


Title: Re: Australian Bushfires....
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 12, 2009, 09:21:55 PM
Thanks everyone.

      It is Australia's worst ever natural disaster, they are expecting a death toll over 300. The ferocity of the fires made plain by pictures of molten metal and huge uprooted trees. It wasn't just people in wooded areas who died either , one couple who were horse trainers lost their house and their lives, they were surrounded by 50 acres of stubble. 

    The weather was hideous,the winds tremendous. In one of the areas most heavily hit ,Kinglake,the only fast road out is to the north west and that is where the fire came from , the other roads are narrow and mountainous and through heavy forest.There are many tragic stories from there, fortunately the two people I know from there survived one lost his house.I am still yet to hear from a friend in northern Victoria , I hope it is just because many phone towers have been lost.

As many have said in the last few days , it's a beautiful country, it's just not really made for people.

(http://images.theage.com.au/2009/02/11/379560/svTRICKLE-420x0.jpg)

 


Title: It's on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 13, 2009, 12:09:56 AM
We've just heard that the meeting held today between representitives of the DLRA and the Kokatha tribe about a land use agreement for Lake Gairdner has finished with an agreement struck between the parties. There is yet to be an agreement about ongoing use but for now this is great news.

The other good news is that the lake is in pristine condition and so we are both ALLOWED to and CAN use the lake for this years meeting.....



YOU BEAUTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:EqqazBydE7eGTM::frtim.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/thumbs-up.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rex Schimmer on February 13, 2009, 12:56:24 AM
Now that is some great news!!! Go get um Doc!

Rex


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 13, 2009, 09:49:23 AM
Great news guys---thanks for the personal update----hope and pray that the rest of OUR dry lake family is as fortunate---great and safe racing!!!!!!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Harold Bettes on February 13, 2009, 01:17:57 PM
Doc Goggles and All the Aussies,

That is great news in spite of all the terrible fire damages and losses.

Wishing you all well and fast recovery :-D from all the devastation.

Regards to All, :cheers:
HB2 :-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: maj on February 13, 2009, 05:31:32 PM
So much work to do now,  :-D, been hard to get motivated when there was such a big questionmark over the meeting..
Doc .. Pristine condition?? hope your sources are good  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 13, 2009, 07:00:15 PM
Outstanding news - Pack up the trailer, shower the soot off your brow, and go West, young man! :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 15, 2009, 09:21:07 PM
Spirits are up as the Spirit of Sunshine gets moving.

We crossed off four more things on our shed blackboard this weekend which is a great feeling (and only added two:a net gain!)

Colonel Grumm came in and wired in our Tacho and a quick fire of the engine showed it to be working well. This was a$20 eBay item and so we didn't know until now whether it was a goer or not. We have put it in a nice chrome car searchlight fitting we bought for $2 and it looks much better. I just have to print out the new design of the face to complete the reinvention of this device into something that looks alright.

I ask again, why are all the aftermarket gauges so crap? it seems like after Smiths were making decent gauges for a few years all the rest gave up on creating anything decent. Surely in the Internet age with a huge amount of graphic design going on somebody could be making gauges that don't look like they belong on a cheap wind up Chinese toy.

Any way, the good Colonel also wired in our Oil Pressure warning switch onto the steering wheel where it is plenty visible. Again not the nicest looking fitting but operational. The redesign of the wheel to and its switches and lights will occur after this meet where I hope to find or make some groovy warning lights and add in any lessons learnt from this trip.

I repolished the windscreen which had taken a beating over the past year in the bump'n'grind environment of a small shed, then being dumped in a yard inhabited by chickens...

It came up trumps!

Body work and paint the main job this coming weekend. Any volunteers to help prepare?

Reverend Hedgash



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 16, 2009, 09:16:28 PM
Yessirree, I'll be there.....actually I was there last night ....knocked a bit more of the body flat,the last paint job that the car had was as quick as has ever been done, this time round I'll be adding a little finesse( now, I said LITTLE,take note all you show car guys)....there are parts of it that need metal work to be top class and that definitley won't be happening for this meet but all in all it will be a vast improvement. The Rev bought a different shade for the "white"this time around....it's a pinkish cream if you ask me and the red is a much brighter red than we had last time ......it's gonna be , er , different.

Last night I also managed to nail something that had been a bugbear.......the solenoid cable release for the parachute needed to be reset everytime we tried to repack it so it obviously needed a spring return because there is no way of getting to that part of the innards when the body is on, it didn't take long and it works a treat.

On the weekend we also changed the anchor point for the 'chute . We used a piece of 1 5/8 tubing as a saddle and bulked up the superstructure behind the chute bucket.We also deepened the bucket as it had always been a struggle to pack the chute into the space we had and I was worried that it put too much pressure on the doors, feeling much better about the whole arrangement now....here is the new anchor

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P2140939.jpg)

I have also been making a few heat shields, the gear shift cables, the flexible clutch line and the chute solenoid amongst others. I've made all but one out of polished aluminium, one out of stainless..primarily to defeat or at least reduce the effect of radiant heat from the headers.

more soon.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 23, 2009, 02:25:35 AM
Race track has been visited and approved. We are going!

... although the Mrs is freakin' out because we have NO money and baby will only be a few weeks away, I'm changing jobs, we're moving everything to the farm, everything is burning, there is no water and there is a financial crisis.

I say given all of the above it would be crazy not to go...


rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 1212FBGS on February 23, 2009, 02:27:41 AM
go get a record buddy!
kent


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 23, 2009, 02:31:43 AM
Thanks Kent, will try to. There are two that we are hoping to tackle this trip.

First the Australian record for EGL class which stands at 146mph (3.8L engine, gasolene, Lakester)

Then the EFL class which is open at present. (3.8L engine, fuel, Lakester)

This means we both wont be arguing over who drives last and holds onto the record.

The above is if all goes well, really, just getting it there will be worth it, and if we can have a couple of runs without incident that would be great.

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on February 23, 2009, 09:03:14 AM
We're pulling for you to have a great time!

Be safe, go fast!

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on February 23, 2009, 09:10:43 AM
Doc, Be safe, have fun and go fast
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on February 23, 2009, 09:43:14 AM
Go, guys, go!  Be fast and be safe!

Mike


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on February 23, 2009, 10:09:12 AM
Guys that is great.  Have a good time and be safe,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hitz on February 24, 2009, 01:46:35 AM
Rev and DR. G

  Good luck to both of you. You've overcome a lot of obstacles to earn some good rides. Be safe, go fast.

  Harvey


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 24, 2009, 06:54:03 PM
. . . the Mrs is freakin' out because we have NO money and baby will only be a few weeks away, I'm changing jobs, we're moving everything to the farm, everything is burning, there is no water and there is a financial crisis.

I say given all of the above it would be crazy not to go...


rH+

Sounds to me like you could use a diversion. :-D  Wishing you success and fun.

Safety Fast!

Chris


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Peter Jack on February 24, 2009, 08:16:14 PM
Spoken like a true racer! Good luck. Race safe and fast.

Pete


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 24, 2009, 11:11:04 PM
About the time I turned 40 :-(---over a 1/4 century ago :-D  I pondered the Creedo by which to live the rest of my life by.

MY final results----The COURAGE to live the rest of my Life so that when I exited--- I whould have no MAJOR  " Well I wonder WHAT IFS"!!!!!!!

GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Run that PUPPY  :evil: ---I PROMISE- :evil:--you will not regret it!! :-D---in the LONG run!!!!!!!!!! :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on February 24, 2009, 11:48:57 PM
I'm all happied up that you get to run.  :-D Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 25, 2009, 03:27:38 AM
Aw shucks, I don't know what to say ....even Kent was nice to us  :-D :-D....We've really enjoyed this site since we started the Australian Bellytank thread and the support ,advice , humor and friendship has been fantastic . We've solved problems and made improvements from advice we've got here, we've been inspired by some really big names in the game here and we've had a huge laugh.

Now it's time to get it out ......and use it for what it was meant for.

We've suffered a bit of adversity and had some lucky breaks, and some , er unlucky breaks :oops: Both of us are up against it money wise....due to a misunderstanding about family planning the good Rev has a birth imminent......but a racing we will go...

When I get back you will be hearing all about it, trust me , all about it. I've also been roped to write a six page salt article for Australian Motorcycle News so you'll be seeing that too I guess....I'm gonna be a busy little boy.

I've been out in the backyard painting panels after work....I'm such a genius that when I masked off the line to put the cream on the front I laid the tape on the wrong side of the line( on both sides of course)........and it's too cold to be painting.......just like it was too hot when I did the red( they say if you don't like Melbourne weather you should wait five minutes).........it'll get there.

Thanks everyone ,legends, beginners ,cards and hounds for the encouragement.....we've still got ten days before we go but we need twenty.

I'll post again before we go :wink: :wink: :wink:



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 25, 2009, 05:52:29 PM
For the record, the family was planned, we just don't have a name.

Any good names anyone can think of for a girl who will grow up to be a Formula One world title holder (if daddy has his way).

Chevrolet von Pomborneit has a nice ring to it...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 25, 2009, 05:57:09 PM
Ute Holden Hedgash?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on February 25, 2009, 07:13:30 PM
For the record, the family was planned, we just don't have a name.

Any good names anyone can think of for a girl who will grow up to be a Formula One world title holder (if daddy has his way).

Chevrolet von Pomborneit has a nice ring to it...
Elmita Bonnevella Hegdash?   :lol:  Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 25, 2009, 07:16:03 PM
For the record, the family was planned, we just don't have a name.

Any good names anyone can think of for a girl who will grow up to be a Formula One world title holder (if daddy has his way).

Chevrolet von Pomborneit has a nice ring to it...
Elmita Bonnevella Hegdash?   :lol:  Wayno

Bonnie, for short!

I was thinking Ute for the duality aspect - probably the coolest truck we'll never see in the States, and the tribe that Utah was named after, but I think Wayno is on the right track.

Of course, I don't have any kids, so what do I know?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 25, 2009, 08:41:25 PM
 I like both Ute and Bonnevilla!

Sum introduced us to the Ute tribe of Utah and we were impressed.

We have ute racing in Oz, b/w the fords and Holdens. There's a bit more door paint traded than the other races and highly entertaining and pretty cheap to run I imagine. We also have a ute muster where last year over 7000 utes descend upon a designated area...

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2008/10/06/12721_entertainment-news.html

..hmmm... now to run it by the missuss...



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 25, 2009, 09:37:00 PM
[Elmita Bonnevella Hegdash?   :lol:  Wayno
I pretty sure this has been said before but it needs to be said again, ....you're nuts Wayno..

I had some suggestions , none of which were given the slightest heed.....One was Schwayne....no taste those Hedgashes :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on February 25, 2009, 10:20:25 PM
[Elmita Bonnevella Hegdash?   :lol:  Wayno
I pretty sure this has been said before but it needs to be said again, ....you're nuts Wayno..
Flattery will get you everywhere.  :cheers: Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 25, 2009, 10:32:38 PM
Schwayne Gairdner? If we were in the motorcycle class maybe.

But Schwayne is clearly a boys name and we are having a girl.
A hyphenated boys name like Shane-Wayne already has our attention for the boys.

If we were having twins, one of each, then Arthur and Martha.

But we are having a girl and she needs a winning racing name.

Keke Rosberg, Stirling Moss, Juan Fangio and Jacki Stewart all had winning names. Mark Webber's lack of success surely comes from his unsuitable monica, it simply isn't as world championesque as Lewis Hamilton.

Its a pity that McLaren was a New Zealander, that would make an interesting first name... and the surname Brabham mumbles, just like the man.

While we are at it we mosewell change our surnames too. I do like "von Pomborneit" as our farm is in Pomborneit.

We can be the racing family von Pomborneit.

Bonnevilla von Pomborneit. mmm. Classy.







Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 26, 2009, 03:21:53 AM
We can be the racing family von Pomborneit.

Bonnevilla von Pomborneit. mmm. Classy.

see everybody?....that's the sort of stuff I have to deal with......

anyway here's a moody sort of shot of the scallops that went on the side of the tank this afternoon......

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P2260941.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on February 26, 2009, 05:03:12 AM
What about shapelle headgash
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on February 26, 2009, 09:26:19 AM
We can be the racing family von Pomborneit.

Bonnevilla von Pomborneit. mmm. Classy.

see everybody?....that's the sort of stuff I have to deal with......

anyway here's a moody sort of shot of the scallops that went on the side of the tank this afternoon......

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P2260941.jpg)

I like those  :-).  As soon as you get the car outside how about some more shots of it.

c ya,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wolcottjl on February 26, 2009, 10:03:33 AM
You could always go with a Latin name - Celeritas in Latin is speed, swift, quick - Celerita might work

Or have DEE somewhere in the name - as in De Hane -- from Henry De Hane Segrave, first person to set a land speed record over 200


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on February 26, 2009, 10:32:46 AM
Not as "contemporarly cool" as some of the other suggestions, however the first woman into the 200 MPH Club: Marcia Holley 1978 229.361

Mike


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 01, 2009, 09:13:24 PM
Another busy weekend , can't really remember much but we were at it no-stop. We changed some harness mounts, honed the clutch slave, I went right over the steering ....then when we tried to put the front tub on it wouldn't fit because the steering box had tilted slightly...well, there goes my wheel alignment. we added some more retainers for the fire bottles, tidied some wiring, fitted the canopy, took it off again, fitted it , took it off again,mucked around with the steering column washed and mounted the wheels, filled the water tank, got as much dust and swarf as we could out of the cab.

Then Pete brough the race trailer over....last night I slept through the night non-stop for the first time in six months, man I was tired.

still more to go......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on March 01, 2009, 09:30:42 PM
DrG, everyone... no matter how much time they had and expended on their race vehicle.... has had to do the pre-race thrash  :|  it is like a rite of passage to the salt  :-D
Go get 'em, be safe, have fun, go fast  8-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 55chevr on March 01, 2009, 09:42:33 PM
I thought I was the only one still doing all nighters the week before ... Guess it is endemic to our small fraternity.


Joe


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 04, 2009, 06:48:27 AM
well, here it is in the trailer.....whaddayathink?....should we get different curtains?

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3040946.jpg)

and yeah , you're right ....looks like she's runnin' a bit rich........ :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on March 04, 2009, 07:36:45 AM
BEAUTIMUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :-D  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 04, 2009, 08:10:26 AM
Congrats on the mad-cap dash to get ready.  The car looks ready to rock the salt, but Doc, how's your leg?

I see you remembered to pack the hammer.  Anticipating some adjustments on the salt? :-D

Best of luck - it's long overdue.  Safety Fast!  :cheers:

Chris


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on March 04, 2009, 09:22:50 AM
Shouldn't it be tied down???  :mrgreen:

Looks great.  Best of luck!

Mike


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on March 04, 2009, 09:56:35 AM
I wanna be there.  :cry: Good Luck guys. Go very fast safely.   :cheers:Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on March 04, 2009, 12:41:09 PM
Looks great guys!!  Maybe you should work on it in the trailer in the future.  Looks to be more room in there than the shed  :evil:.

Have a great trip and time and keep us posted,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rchop on March 04, 2009, 02:12:21 PM
Looks great  :cheers: Good Luck :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wolcottjl on March 04, 2009, 02:26:02 PM
Good luck, Go Fast, Stay Safe.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 04, 2009, 04:57:25 PM
Thanks all, yes I have packed the hammer....it's a way of saying ...."uh, YOU CAN"T TOUCH THIS!"........yes they are overspray marks and no that paint hasn't been compounded ,maybe today.The signwriting arrives today and the last of the shopping is yet to be done.

I drove the car up the driveway last night to the trailer.....we have to put boards down so it can get out of the shed...when it got to the end of them it bottomed out ...felt like a horse had kicked my butt.....then I remembered the day at the airport and how despite how much fun i'd had I felt like I'd been kicked all over,a thousand times....we really need to spend more time on NVH* issues

Just to reinforce one of the main differences between Gairdner and Bonneville , there is a canteen that does meals but that is the only vestige of civilization...there is no phone contact ,nothin'....you need to pack like you're going to the moon, plenty of you guys drive as far or further but we have 100 miles of dirt as the last bit before the lake, that's the killer.It shakes the shirt out of everything and replaces it with dust.

The leg. It is better all the time but still feels like your feet do when you have been walking all day , all the time.I can drive the car, that's what's important right now.

I just remembered , I have a car to get ready and stuff to pack! :-o.....see ya. :wink:


* Noise Vibration and Harshness a term used by the auto industry to describe the comfort level of cars


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on March 04, 2009, 05:10:38 PM
Have a great time!  And good luck.

Awaiting a glowing report of the fantastic adventure and high speeds attained.

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 14, 2009, 06:43:16 PM
......we're back , right now I'm in the middle of unpacking and cleaning, so,just a teaser for now, details?............later!

this is a shot that Tiny's (generatorshovel)mate Wilso took

(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t24/generatorshovel/speedweek%2009/10.jpg)

it was a week of everything, everything.................

this here is one of my shots.....with the moon looking over us........

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/P3100962.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank aka prettiest car on the lake
Post by: grumm441 on March 14, 2009, 11:01:00 PM
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/The%20Lake%2009/DSC_1740.jpg) :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on March 14, 2009, 11:44:07 PM
Hey great pictures and glad you made it home ok, but how about how fast did you go?  Did you both get to drive the lakester?  Did you have a good time?  Are you done with land speed racing  :wink:.  And how about all the rest of it...............

You don't need to sleep or do anything else in bed, don't keep us waiting,

Sum


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 15, 2009, 08:09:42 PM
OK, as mentioned elsewhere the week started with rain,we got in Sat night and copped it as we tried to erect the tent. A miserable night with on and off rain and blustery winds. Sunday there was a general feeling of disarray as we all wondered, walked back and forth to the lake to check the situation and chit chat went on on the UHF , the good thing though was that it was blowing a southerly and it wasn't raining. There was grumbling as word went around about a film crew who'd shot a car ad and apparently dumped thousands of litres of water at the entrance ramp to the lake when they washed their gear the day they left.

Come Monday the situation improved again and the word was that we could get onto the lake on Tuesday.We headed out and set up our pit, unloaded the car and got everything organised.There were a couple of hitches. We'd never attached the canopy with the tub on the car and that proved to be a hassle as we weren't in any hurry to hoist the car onto the stands,after we'd done that we went looking for the third fire bottle that Grumm had brought from Melbourne, it was the wrong size. Our fire system supplier had sent us a new one when one failed a test.It was too big and wouldn't fit into the spot where it was supposed to go, technically we could run without it as we weren't going 200 this year, so we removed the mount.In a happy ending another crew had a non-compliant fire system and the bottle we couldn't use got them through.

We were the last car scrutineered on Tuesday, apart from a few small issues which were noted in the log-book for attention we cruised through. It was a strange feeling as they handed us the sticker and said, "congratulations boys , you can go racing".

Wednesday morning we started early and took the car to the test track.I got in , belted up, fired her up and took off. The test track was very rough and our car has no suspension and less than two inches of clearance . It was immediately apparent that the clearance on the cheek bars in the cage were too tight and the rock hard SFI padding was transferring vibration to the helmet, I couldn't see, anything. It felt as though there were two people using my head as a speed-ball.I got back to where everyone was waiting and flipped the canopy up..." it's f***** , I can't see "........it was a very low feeling .Apart from that the car seemed great , it wanted to go, sounded good and felt right. We took it back to the pit and pulled out the SFI padding on the cheek bars and put in the softer "you'll go to hell" red stuff and went straight back to the test track. This time I could see , I had to concentrate on trying not to lift my head up and try to see over the tacho, that made for less vibration....it stepped out nicely as I gunned it back towards the crew.

"Let's put it in line" , it was about 4pm before we were called in our group of ten to the start line. From the marshalling area I drove straight into the crunchies and couldn't see... we are too low to easily see the graded areas and once there is fine vibration the cones are hard to spot, fortunately the guy behind me drove past....I followed him to the start line keeping my distance as he seemed to be able to brake a whole lot better than me.

The vibration issue had me deeply concerned, I had the worst case of pre-gig jitters I've ever had and was at that point convinced I was going to struggle to see well enough to avoid taking out either trackmarkers or timing gear, I decided that I would abort if it was too severe ,my guts were churning.

Next thing I'm on the line, it's really hot and my sunglasses are fogging so I push them to the end of my nose, I'm trying to remember a million things at once...there's banter going on between the starters and Cookey the timer "it's Dr Goggles for his inaugural run....give him a pat on the head for me "......then Cled the chief starter gives me the rolling signal.

The car goes and sounds good I take it to four grand in second ( we start in second gear) and shove the stick forward against the lock out , grab the front stick and it snicks into third ..............as I get into it I realise there is no vibration ,the track is as smooth as a baby's bum. I've got the shift light set at 3750 which should be 125 in top gear, it blinks as I change into fourth. It comes on again as I pass the mile marker.

The quarter trap is at the 3 mile, the start is at the one so I've got a mile of this before the lights .I settle in , I listen to the motor as I hover around 3750, make a note that there are fumes and that I may have burned the clutch on the trip to the line. I'm sticking to the right side of the track looking out through the screen to the right of the tacho and watching the little cor-flute markers zing by.....at one point there was a bollard that was a little too close for comfort but the car was right at home,it felt like a kiddies ride. 30 degrees of steering castor make for something that just wants to go straight , no shimmies no drift in the wind...it was tame.

The 3mile came up , the light went off briefly so I kicked it a bit. I stood on the clutch pedal and rolled for a few seconds before I shifted back to third the car slowed gradually over the mile and I turned out after the four , I got off the return road for a bit into the crunchies , at eighty miles an hour it's pretty severe, found the road again and headed back to the pits where I rolled up to the end of the staging line. Grumm lifted the canopy ...."nice one , you did 114". A huge weight had been lifted, the car that we built in the back yard , went, it did what it was supposed to do, it had no bad habits, it wasn't broken and the vision aspect wasn't an issue on the properly prepared track.

Next it was the Reverends turn to do his 125 pass , he was to run in Fuel class which has never been contested at Gairdner.Just as we were called to the start line the battery refused to start the car , we towed him there and did a battery change at the start line area, there is no "idiot light" so the alternator wasn't charging under 2000rpm We wound the shift light up to 4000....I'd left the gearing charts at home and the 3750 figure was from memory. Due to the number of entrants it was 24 hours after my 125 pass before he got to run...me behaving like a dad at junior sports day the Rev at his Zen like best...wandering around seemingly unconcerned about anything...." get in the bloody car Dik".

Off he went. It was an indescribable feeling to see the car speeding away from me and although it’s a V6 that’s still very stock it sounded sweet. He too ran 114 which as a matter of course was a record, when he got to the pits it was straight onto the end of the line . We were number 22 when the course was closed for the day.

My 150 license pass had a little sweetener . No-one has run an E class Gas Lakester since 1998 and the record was set at 145mph. Within the stipulations I could run to 165 for my license which is what I intended to do. I left the line and the car felt great ,  I got into it a little harder than I had and was pulling 138 after the first mile and the motor was singing with the speed climbing steadily. I got to the three mile at 160 , the GPS was showing 162 163 when the car began missing ……momentarily I thought “Dodge, don’t let me down now” when I remembered that I hadn’t flicked the fuel pump over-ride and the pump was cutting out at 5200 rpm.

I got to the pits and again Grumm opened the canopy and said “congratulations you did 161”, once again the car was a pussycat , straight as a die.

It was Friday and there were thirty cars ahead of us, word went around that if the competitors stayed to help dismantle the track equipment that everybody in the line would get a run.

The Rev was suited up , the signage on the car changed to E/FL and off he went on his 150 pass , a bit of an over rev on 3 to 4 but the car sounded sweet. We set off in the chase car as the radio announced he’d run 152 , a quick check over the pits as we passed to make sure he hadn’t beaten us there as we headed out the return road…..no not there, about two miles out we saw the “Taxi” headed toward us …he’d run after the Rev…..we turned around..”he must be in the pits” just then Grumm came along on a scooter” where is he?” …”we couldn’t see him in the pits”….OK “ “I’ll go back and check again , you go on and call Northern rescue”…..we called the rescue guys” Support crew for the red and white Lakester , we cannot find the car”, they came screaming toward us with lights flashing and as they got closer they pointed out towards one of the islands….There he was , a mile off into the crunchies.

As we got to the car I hung out the window with a thumbs up “Heeeeyyyyyyy”……but he wasn’t in it, he was nowhere to be seen , and there were no footprints. Standing there with puzzled looks on our faces we made jokes about him being abducted by aliens…..then another support vehicle turned up , he got out with a huge grin on his face, he’d missed the five mile turn off, got the sixth but promptly lost sight of the road and after being belted around inside the car his knee broke the back off our kill switch and the car wouldn’t start.

That was the end of the week , we’d achieved everything that was possible in the time we had , the car held up we were all still friends and we’d had one hell of a time.

I’m very happy.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: theazoldcrow on March 15, 2009, 08:33:11 PM
 :-o  :-o  :-o Ya had me holdin my breath thru the whole narrative!!!!!!!!!!!!  Glad I could enjoy some of your runnin time!! Happy Racen'  Crow   :cheers:   :cheers:   :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on March 15, 2009, 08:44:11 PM
Very cool Doc.  :wink: Wayno


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: maj on March 15, 2009, 09:13:21 PM
It was great to see all your work come to that one point in time of your first run, you were like a cat on a hot tin roof Doc .

You have had a lot of good advise and used it well, there was only going to be one outcome  Congrats  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on March 15, 2009, 09:39:47 PM
Well guys it sounds like you had a great time, made a couple of fast runs and the car did what it was built to do.... go fast.  Sometimes you have to adjust your head to be in a spot that the vibration does not "uncage" your eyeballs in a tight compartment.  You guys did great, I didn't use the back side of my seat through the entire read.  Sorry the weather didn't cooperate but that is typical of LSR, weather is always an issue. 
We are all happy for ya, glad you were safe, fast and had fun, that's what it is all about  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wolcottjl on March 15, 2009, 10:19:11 PM
Congrats! :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on March 15, 2009, 11:19:53 PM
Guys----isn't it a GREAT feeling  :-D when the car does what YOU built it to do!!!!!!!  Congratulations of a GREAT LOOKING fun car!!!!!!!!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on March 15, 2009, 11:26:35 PM
Well done!  Congrats!

Now save your money and bring it to Bonneville  :mrgreen:

Mike


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on March 16, 2009, 12:42:11 AM
Googles, do u have an shirts that don't have a skid mark on the tail?

Good job, Mate.

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 16, 2009, 02:30:22 AM
yes! Woohoo!

Unbelievable. You just don't know how it will run until it runs and it does seem that all the work on steering geometry etc has paid off in spades; it ran as straight as a die, and correction was simple as we drove.

One more run would have been the absolute cherry on the top, but as we were using the stock computer for the motor it may not have gone much faster as there is an engine cutout at around 5500rpm. The Colonel built an overide for the fuel cutout at 5200rpm so there was still some legs in her.

For next year we need to:
  • Make the seat more comfortable; there is a cross bar which bruised Dr G's bum so amendments required there.
    Up the fire extinguishers for the 200mph requirement level
    Improve the hatch hinge which proved a little fragile.
    Get all the switches properly mounted on the steering wheel
    Make puke tanks for the diff breather and petrol breather
    Install a ball valve to protect fuel spill in a roll-over
    Install a better speedo, our tacho looked great but was not accurate. We resorted to using the Colonels GPS which worked a treat. May simply put a bicycle speedo on the front wheel.
    Improve the parachute release mechanism, it is prone to not locking properly (!)
    Get rready the Megasquirt engine management system so we can overide the old computer and improve high end mix
    Finish and improve the trim around the front canopy
    improve bodywork joins, fixings etc
    New paint job

So much to do so little time!!!
The plan for next year is to take her on the 175mph licence run for each of us and parachute run and then go for 200mph.

The car ( and us ) really felt capable of going faster this year if we had the time at the track. The club did well to get as much time as we did on track wih a huge turnout and both wind and rain.

Below are some people shots to give the mood as well as some fave shots of the tank.

rev. H+



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 16, 2009, 02:32:28 AM
This is the drivers meeting, the chap in in the previous photo set with the hula hula hands is the club pres, Rob Carrol


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 16, 2009, 02:36:03 AM
The Jarman-Stewart Bellytank.

Australian Landspeed record holder:

E/GL 160mph 256kph
E/FL 152mph 243kph

and counting!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 16, 2009, 02:39:56 AM
Stewie off and away on the first run. It's a V6 and it sounds very purposeful...
Gee it really does look like my avatar...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 16, 2009, 02:46:23 AM
Al Fountain, creator of the Fountain Bellytank which is a magnificent piece of engineering.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 16, 2009, 02:56:56 AM
Lucky Kaiser's streamliner motorcycle made out of 18inch steel pipe.

Pete Quick's (PJQ) troopy and our (and others) support car for this year.

Pete has been incredibly generous in not only lending us his race trailer to transport the Spirit of Sunshine but he also drove it to the Lake and back. Thanks Pete, you are worth your wait in gold! Petrol money on its way!

Also whilst on thankyous a huge thankyou to Steve Barnett and Andy who came to our rescue with parts on the way home when we lost our second set of wheel studs on the trailer on the road (don't ask), you guys rock.

Also of course to Graham and Stewie whose endless commitment to the project over the period of five years, to Stewie for suggesting the idea in the first place, for both your friendship and support in all matters; thanks.

And to all the adviser on Landracing, pleasse keep the good info coming. The car would not have been the beast it is without your input.

Finally, what set of Lake Gairdner photos would be complete without animal? This piccy is him stopping the bus on the way home to help out Steve who had busted an engine holding thingy on the way out. Thank you animal for being, well, yourself.

Reverend Hedgash
E/FL 152mph



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on March 16, 2009, 06:05:34 AM
 Has a nice ring to it doesn't it---RECORD HOLDER!!!!  :cheers: Well done guys!!!!!!!!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rchop on March 16, 2009, 08:20:36 AM
Congrats on the records and the successful trip  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on March 16, 2009, 08:31:14 AM
DocG and Rev, I have one more for your to do list  :|

"The car goes and sounds good I take it to four grand in second ( we start in second gear)"

If you can roll it off the line in 2nd, you are going to need a little re-gear work to go 200... and you guys are gonna go 200...  :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 16, 2009, 08:41:43 AM
Dr. G --

You're hired as the reporter for landracing.com.  Great story -- nicely written, fun to read, and brings enough shivvers to my back that I had to take a look to see just how much longer 'til we get to go racing. 

Good thing Maxton's first event in less than three weeks away.

Congratulations to both of you for records.  Cool. . .


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ol38y on March 16, 2009, 10:33:04 AM
Doc G,
  Awsome report and congrats on your first runs. It's great to see pics of your ride on the salt finally. Sounds like it's time to change gearing.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hitz on March 16, 2009, 11:26:06 AM
Congratulations! What a fine start for your long endeavors. If I do half as well on my first runs, I'll be satisfied. Good show gentlemen!

Harvey


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on March 16, 2009, 01:22:41 PM
Wow!!! Congrats guys and you ought to be mighty proud of what you have accomplished.  Ruth and I are mighty happy for you.  I hung the picture of the two of you and your lakester up by the door where I go out of the shop and into the house.  It is the last thing I see as I turn the shop lights off and it is an inspiration to me.

Way to go,

Sum



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: GH on March 16, 2009, 03:31:02 PM
Sounds like after all the hard work they are having a lot of fun.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 16, 2009, 05:22:59 PM
After last year's disappointment, I can't tell you how happy I am for both of you.  Much respect, and congratulations! 

Record holder - savor that one!

Chris


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 19, 2009, 05:15:05 AM
The gap between my feet and Terra Firma has finally vanished, the real world is back ....I'm still wearing the red driver's wristband that you get when you pay an entry and I won't be taking it off for quite some time ....much amusement at work , no-one has ever come back from a "holiday" looking so trashed....the weeks leading up to and the one at the salt were so tense that I ran up a sleep debt that is going to take a while to repay....I was sitting at my desk on Tuesday and my supervisor walked in and said amid much laughter .."do you want me to get you a pillow matey?"...right now after the time we had nothing seems urgent or for that matter important.

Tonight I hoisted the tank up onto it's stands and removed the lower bodywork so as to get the salt out of it.There was about a cup full in the front tub most of which entered via the soles of shoes we did our best but it's unavoidable. After the "Man of Cloth's" last run when he got lost behind the island the car wouldn't start and had to be towed back to the pits ,I steered and it was a particularly rough ride, those in the Troopy said it looked like a yacht going through light chop because the pressure ridges were so high in that part of the lake and salt was "splashing" away from the front of the car, I was thinking at the time if anything is ever going to rattle off the car it's gonna happen now, it felt like a combination of Demolition Derby and Stacks on the Mill..........anyway when I took the front tub off tonight it turns out that it got beaten up at the very front and the very front part of the flat section of the floor has been bent up...nothing tragic but I'll have to beat it and that will mean a re-fit to the car, bummer. There's nothing else I've found busted although a lot of body screws were loose.....the car has been towed 750 miles home though and I'd suspect much of that is from then.

Haven't yet bothered trying to start her after the electrical hassle we had.......there's even a possibility it ran low on juice, I had noticed that it needs half a gallon in it or it runs rough despite my best efforts to stop the pump cavitating the tank , right now I'm out of diagnostic mode.

Now I'm taking the opportunity to say thanks to everybody. First of all to Jon Amo and Jon Wennerberg for running the landracing.com site that carries this great forum, we have learned a huge amount from this resource and it has kept us inspired. In general thanks to everybody for taking us seriously, we weren't born to lake racing families but we really feel like we've been adopted and what we were doing needed a wider source of info and support than we could find just here in Australia. We fell in love with the look of the early bellytanks and wanted to build something that carried the beautiful heritage that had been created over the last 60years since Bill Burke had his "lightning bolt" moment but at the same time we had a tank that as far as we were aware hadn't been used before. I've said it before but it bears repeating , Dik and I are the kind of guys who think they can do anything , when we found out how hard this was we were too stubborn to give up. It took a lot longer than we ever thought , and cost more than six times what we thought it would , I don't regret a single part of it. I have learnt things , I have combined areas of knowledge that I had that I thought were disparate and I have  developed and used skills that I thought were the preserve of the expert tradesman.This however wouldn't have happened without Dik , the beautiful car we took to the lake was drawn by him , the proof is that avatar next to his Reverend Hedgash name that he created five years ago. His attention to detail , refusal to cut corners and incredible eye for line and style made the little tank what it is, thanks mate you're a genius.Sure we've had our moments but here we are.

Thanks to all you guys who've tipped in with advice. Sum , the indefatigable , you are a point man...your collation of info and design points is a priceless goldmine of info for anyone building a lake car. Stainless, to the point ,proven ,and humble I'm flattered that you dig our thing.Most of all Dolan, Jack you gave us pearls of wisdom and the results of years of experience that made us really feel like it was all worthwhile, important even that we did what we were doing ,come back this place needs you.

Thanks everyone.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: lady Hedgash on March 19, 2009, 07:13:50 PM
Well Done Graeme, Dr Goggles, Rev. H ( honey) and everyone who has contributed their knowledge and experiences into this build.
I am so impressed on so many levels.
I couldn't be there this year as I was busy building a belly tank at home, but I am mighty proud. I was scared....
you never want to stop a mans dreams but sometimes the timing is a bit shaky..... but well, I held onto faith in the guys,
and in all who had advised and assisted them along the way..... wow!- what a result!!
Good luck to everyone out there inspired by this years events to spend another year in the shed!
Lots of love to Sum and Ruth too.
L. Hedgash and Egg xx


Title: Re: Front end
Post by: fredeuce on March 19, 2009, 07:53:23 PM

Hi Doc and Rev ,

I finally hopped on board this site and have just read and enjoyed your epic log of "The Adventures of Doc and Rev and the Belly Tank affair". I expect there have been lashings of beer in lieu of ginger beer as well . I query if there is also a "Timmy" the dog ?

That image  of the Canberra Bomber on page 1 is one that is familiar to me. That is my cousin Lincoln's as we discussed at the salt. Very small world. What's that thing about the six degrees of separation? Might be something in that.

Cheers,
Fred


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Sumner on March 19, 2009, 09:13:32 PM
Hey you guys and the female support team are the heroes.  You had a vision then a plan and the going wasn't easy and then to get rained out and all the other problems that reared their heads and never giving up or even getting a bad attitude about things, wow we are all proud of you and you have been an inspiration to all of us.

c ya and thanks for taking us on your journey,

Sum and Ruth



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 19, 2009, 09:26:47 PM
Thanks Fred , yes an amazing coincidence indeed( in case anyone missed it Fred is a DLRA member and it turns out his cousin owns the Canberra bomber pictured on page one of this thread from which our tank originally came from). It is but one of the many examples of serendipity or coincidence that have happened during the build of the car. For example , on the way to the salt his year I borrowed a Landcruiser from my sister and in the rush of just swapping the trailer onto it and leaving I neglected to find out how to switch over to the long range fuel tank. Later that night we found ourselves still on the back roads in the western district of Victoria and very low on diesel. We stopped at a country pub that was jumping and asked the barman if he knew where we could get some diesel...he said "sure I'll make a few calls" we ended up knocking on the door of the closed service station in the main street. a guy came out "yeah sure , he rang , you're lucky because I was about to go home"...as he was filling the tank he asked where we were headed , so I told him. He held out his hand and said "Bernie Kelly ,member number 11". He took us inside and showed us the Harrow transport museum that included the xxo/gl entry they'd run for a few years and the 307 Biscayne that he'd towed it there with and then run 108 mph in...he had photo's from meets in the early nineties and there were plenty of guys I could identify although they had a lot more hair and a lot less pounds........as we drove off I thought to myself , there's always someone looking over us  Oh Great God of Speed........... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 19, 2009, 11:07:56 PM
Don't forget the great gremlin of speed either though...

Somehow in the course of three weeks the Spirit of Sunshine team lost four wheels and one tyre on four different vehicles!!!

None of us had ever lost a wheel before on a trailer, and the four wheels lost were all trailer episodes, 1 on the trip to the salt, two back.

Some kind of spooky gremlin has regularly boarded the truck whenever I visit the SA border too.

Anyone know an exorcism that works?


rH+
ps It is also a surpise to me that the lady H found us here... we need to hide some other web forum elsewhere now...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on March 19, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
They just kept walking toward the bright light and one day that was the salt flat. You buggars is fantastic.

I'm so proud of the way you persevered and now "next year" can't get here soon enough. The danmed goal

will always extend 'till next year.

Good Go, Mates,

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: maj on March 20, 2009, 07:45:40 AM
Dik it wasn't just your team,
lost my first one near Mildura monday morn at 1.30am and the second just after Nonning many hours later.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Glen on March 20, 2009, 09:30:00 AM
It's a common thing to see race car trailers along the way to Bonneville with tire problems. Seems like every year the racers are helping another along the way. Wit the 100+ F temps an the road temps 130F + they take a beating. Always carry two spares.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: jimmy six on March 20, 2009, 11:37:10 AM
Everyone should "over tire" their trailers. My #7000 gross tires didn't make one trip. Moved to #10,000 gross tires and lasted 2 years. Now I have #12,000 gross tires and store the trailer on blocks with the tires covered. Cheap insurance................Good Luck


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: t russell on March 20, 2009, 03:49:47 PM
Thanks for the build diary.Great  car.
terry


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 20, 2009, 05:17:02 PM
It's a common thing to see race car trailers along the way to Bonneville with tire problems. Seems like every year the racers are helping another along the way. Wit the 100+ F temps an the road temps 130F + they take a beating. Always carry two spares.

And we're lucky here in the states - you can get to Bonneville on pavement all the way.  I'd refer you to the good Doctor's post from last year when he made the trip out to Gardnier.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,862.msg47429.html#msg47429

Despite the absolute beauty of the trip, I'm seeing dirt roads that I'd be cautious about taking a tractor on.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 20, 2009, 05:51:24 PM
Next year I'll be putting the hassle on everyone to have a spare hub that fits their trailer, and to have driven the studs out to check they're not seized. That way whether you have a bearing/hub problem or a stud problem you're close to a fix. I'm also going to look at ways of fixing a small skid under the spring plate so when the disaster does( it will) strike it is protected rather than being the point of contact with the road ...two reasons for this, the first is it can quickly grind the bottom of the U bolts meaning a replacement, might displace the spring too, that's a PITA with a loaded trailer on the side of the highway and more importantly would reduce the sudden drag on the car and trailer and the potential for losing control .

Now , none of theses trailer are in the same realm as Burt's home made job , but the fact that he lost a wheel ...is kind of ironic......next it'll be dried dog balls :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 22, 2009, 02:13:48 AM
Everyone should "over tire" their trailers. My #7000 gross tires didn't make one trip. Moved to #10,000 gross tires and lasted 2 years. Now I have #12,000 gross tires and store the trailer on blocks with the tires covered. Cheap insurance................Good Luck

In our case it wasn't the tyre that failed
The first failure was when the wheel studs broke off the the trailer after axle had moved on the 100 mile dirt road leaving the lake. The second failure was when the 70's mag wheel exploded of the hub and took out the wheel studs, and U bolts holding the trailer axle in and flipping slipper type spring out of it's thing. It also pulled the skin off the trailer.
I sent the Rev off to retrieve the lost wheel, and apart from a bit of tread missing, i think the tyre would've gone around once more. However the wheel was in about five bits
So , we learned that Light truck tyres are good , and second hand mag wheels are bad.
Also if it it wasn't for Steve Barnett and Andy? convincing a the local car wrecker at Bordertown in SA that at seven PM on a sunday night when he was well closed and on his way out to an 18th birthday party, to sell him a wheel some wheel studs and a set of trailer u bolts, and a second hand wheel, and also booked us room in  a local hotel, well me and the Rev would have had a tiring night asleep in the car on the side of the road
Thanks Steve and Andy.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 01, 2009, 07:24:34 PM
here's a shot from Greg Wapling the webmaster at DLRA.org.au/forum

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/dlra/profiles/374/374-010.jpg)

there are more on the page here.......

http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263&start=300

some beautys, thanks Greg... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Glen on April 01, 2009, 07:33:28 PM
Good looking hot rod,  What, No pictures of the trailer and wheel pieces.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 01, 2009, 08:31:04 PM
Good looking hot rod,  What, No pictures of the trailer and wheel pieces.
...na just some "wheel nuts" Rev Left , Doc Right.........

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/dlra/profiles/374/374-011.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on April 01, 2009, 10:31:48 PM
Good looking hot rod,  What, No pictures of the trailer and wheel pieces.
...na just some "wheel nuts" Rev Left , Doc Right.........

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/dlra/profiles/374/374-011.jpg)

Ya mean "a couple of Lug Nuts" .... otherwise it is lost in translation....
Luv the car guys, keep up the good work...  8-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on April 02, 2009, 05:55:22 PM
One other hero of the tank's inaugural trip... the ole Mongrel Troopy.
Spent the week chasing the little tank (and a few bikes) without skipping a beat (lost trailer wheel was drivers fault :oops:).
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/Shade.jpg)
Seen here providing shade from scorching sun, as a shady looking Doctor ponders Salt life.

(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/Bulldust2.jpg)
...and here, diving into Bulldust dragging the trailer and tank home  (Outback dust as fine as talc powder, gets into everything)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on April 02, 2009, 06:27:34 PM
One other hero of the tank's inaugural trip... the ole Mongrel Troopy.

(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/Bulldust2.jpg)
...and here, diving into Bulldust dragging the trailer and tank home  (Outback dust as fine as talc powder, gets into everything)

This was the good section of road, right?  It's no wonder you lost a wheel.  Over here, you hop on the freeway and then take a right past the Sinclair station.  For all of our bitching, we've got it easy.

Rev, Doc, your determination is beyond reproach.



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Glen on April 02, 2009, 06:40:27 PM
Muroc dry lake has the same kind of dust. Always a major clean up after the events. At least the roads were paved to get there. El Mirage is no where that bad.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 02, 2009, 07:12:23 PM
not absolutely sure but what I understand is that the "bulldust" ( and that's what it's called) suddenlylets go when there's heavy traffic, hence there being almost none on the way in .....on the way out therewere patches a hundred yards long and as deep as a foot....If you look in the photo above it appears to be splashing out in front of the truck......there was this stuff, talc dry and then sections that were flooded bogs . The problem is the effort to build up a road in such remote areas is not considered worthwhile and so quite often the road actually lies below the surrounding ground level, that's beaut on the rare occasions when it rains....often a wind-row forms along the sides of the road of fine dust with a crisp lip along it.

If you look out behind the car after a patch of the bulldust you'll see a dust cloud along the whole way you've come and then huge clouds like explosions where you've hit the bulldust.....

There was a wet creek crossing after a sharp right hand bend on the way out that got just about everybody, we hit it at dusk at about 50mph, with about a seconds notice........
 I felt for anyone who got bogged going home.....at the end of the week out there you just want to get home , fast .....a messy, red mud pile would be the livin' end!



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on April 02, 2009, 09:15:34 PM
So next year I am accepting the use of my brother Nissan Patrol
Traction didn't seem to be a problem
But you should see the underneath of the Commodore (Aussie Car)
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on April 02, 2009, 09:43:50 PM
Dr GoGGles............did the surplus shirts survive?

We have Muroc Dust but we know u never get rid of that.

What we don't have is a supply of your event shirts.

I think I forgot to tell the fellows: no refunds.

Take what we can get after the dirt bath in the trailer with the bad doors.

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 02, 2009, 10:03:19 PM
Dr GoGGles............did the surplus shirts survive?
FREUD

iL Contrere!!!......there will be a new run done, order away.....Norm Hardinge, his wife Vicky and likely the Hadfields will be going to Bonneville and they will be ferrying the shirts.... so there'll be ship-loads


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on April 03, 2009, 12:14:54 AM
I have seen dust that fine, yes, it gets everywhere. :x


Right now we have ash that fine, somewhat more abrasive though. :-(

All up, it definetly looks like a good time.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on April 07, 2009, 07:39:54 AM
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/_3100021a_1.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on April 07, 2009, 08:42:25 AM
That is one for the mantle... if you have a fireplace... otherwise anywhere in the living room or even in the bedroom if you need a performance enhancer... :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: saltwheels262 on April 07, 2009, 08:58:02 AM
#374 is a real beauty.

franey


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 07, 2009, 06:53:18 PM
That is one for the mantle... if you have a fireplace... otherwise anywhere in the living room or even in the bedroom if you need a performance enhancer... :-D


Yep, it's a beautiful shot.......I've got what must be somewhere between one and two thousand of 'em, some absolutely sensational stuff. There's some magazine features coming up soon too.....the thing is when I look at some of them I wish i'd spent more than a day painting it :oops:...but you all know the story, you tell someone you spent five years building it and while you're looking down at it right there in front of you there's a piece of bodywork that looks like it was prepped by a five year old


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: bvillercr on April 07, 2009, 07:54:58 PM
Looks great, what a shot! :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on April 13, 2009, 07:46:05 PM
That is one for the mantle... if you have a fireplace... otherwise anywhere in the living room or even in the bedroom if you need a performance enhancer... :-D

Mantle - hell, that one deserves a tattoo.

Just stunning!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 28, 2009, 02:15:52 AM
For the first time since the meet I saw the Reverend last night .....well, I've had nothing to confess , no guidance has been sought ....so anyway he fronts at the door last night. Great moustache, just right for the first world war.....

We had a cup of tea as I coaxed him toward the shed. I mumbled something about how I want him to model a "hot-rod" style plaque that we can make out of some boiled down cheesium( that's the stuff they make manifolds out of , come on)....so we get out to the shed ..."have you started it yet"?...."na , gave it a crack last week but the pump doesn't sound like it's working..."...... so we gave it a few cranks and sure enough it didn't fire nor did it sound like the fuel pump was working....., so it sat there for a while with the ignition on as we undid the fueltank......just as we started to lift the fuel tank I could feel warmth....." that's weird I thought, has he been hanging onto the fuel line?" ....no , the fuel pump is stuffed , goosed , rooted, kaput, .....it makes heat but she no longer do the pump....... It was brand new about , er , twenty five miles ago.The filter sits between the (new) aluminium tank and the pump but it seems that the detritus from the tank still monstered the pump......it wasn't a cheap one :x :x :x :x

I'm thinking there's a few wise old heads right now saying to themselves " yeah well you'll get that...." and yer right , so out ya come share your fuel pump expertise and tell me should I ditch the alloy tank and make a stainless one? should we have two filters? , how do you stop your pump from cavitating?.............

anyway,the news is that when I spoke to Grumm this afternoon he said " yeah , I've got the video footage from inside the car( which the Rev and I had forgotten about ) it's really nicely framed and captures the whole last run perfectly....the motor dieing , the Rev getting out and nearly breaking off the canopy, then walking off toward the island when he'd got lost and the motor wouldn't start again..." .


....boy am I dieing to see that!!! :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on April 28, 2009, 03:17:20 AM
A co-worker / racer friend of mine was using a submersible Wallbro pump (the 255 LPM one) and I couldn't get it through to him till he locked up a couple that the pick up sock had to be on. :roll:

He wound up whacking the pump about a bit and got it to work again (not reccomended, but might be worth a try) till his replacement got here.

Is there a different pickup sock or prefilter you could run?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on April 28, 2009, 04:35:35 AM
Yep
Fickle things those EFI pumps
No sense of humor when it comes to small particles of Cheesium
It may be a lot of things but it has been found to be not compatible with EFI fuel pumps.
"Cheesium is the fourth element in the Idiotic Table of the Elements, and is an essential building-block for dairy products and moons."


http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Cheesium

G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on April 28, 2009, 01:57:36 PM
So, Dr. G-

You gonna send that video link to me so I can put it on the website for all to peruse?  I think it'd be dandy if you did. . .

By the way, I got the photobucket link and will see if that's good enough for Darryl.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on April 29, 2009, 05:51:31 AM
So, Dr. G-

You gonna send that video link to me so I can put it on the website for all to peruse?  I think it'd be dandy if you did. . .

By the way, I got the photobucket link and will see if that's good enough for Darryl.  Thanks.

Jon
The hard copy is on the way to your house. I posted it today so you may see it next week
The Video is a bit on the large side, and the funny thing is you will probably see it before Goggles does
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 29, 2009, 09:40:58 PM
At work I use various lake racer pictures as screensavers.  Folks look at these.  The two belly tanks, the blue and silver one and the red and white job, get lots of favorable comments.  Many of these people have no idea about speed racing. These pill shaped things are good-will ambassadors for our sport.     


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 29, 2009, 10:33:38 PM
A co-worker / racer friend of mine was using a submersible Wallbro pump (the 255 LPM one) and I couldn't get it through to him till he locked up a couple that the pick up sock had to be on. :roll:
He wound up whacking the pump about a bit and got it to work again (not reccomended, but might be worth a try) till his replacement got here.
Is there a different pickup sock or prefilter you could run?

looking into that , the tank is epoxy lined too so I'm interested to see what it is that got through the canister filter and into the pump that was small enough to get there yet big enough to conk it....

At work I use various lake racer pictures as screensavers.  Folks look at these.  The two belly tanks, the blue and silver one and the red and white job, get lots of favorable comments.  Many of these people have no idea about speed racing. These pill shaped things are good-will ambassadors for our sport.     

now that's a nice thing to hear ,be sure to tell them that the "blue and silver" one( Al Fountain's) was built by a guy with a long and rich history in hotrods to an exacting standard, and that the "red and white job was built by two Johnny come latelys in a back yard...we don't want to get the two confused :wink:

So, Dr. G-

You gonna send that video link to me so I can put it on the website for all to peruse?  I think it'd be dandy if you did. . .

By the way, I got the photobucket link and will see if that's good enough for Darryl.  Thanks.
"

I am DESPERATE to see that , I'm thinking of a re-edit on the sound before I post it on poo-tube........ :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on April 30, 2009, 12:37:08 AM
So are you going to edit out our pre run coversation?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on April 30, 2009, 08:40:16 AM
Johnny and Come Lately, you have started a rich hot rodding history, there are people that talk and people that do... Everyone that builds something from anything and gets it down any patch of salt or dirt is an accomplished hot rodder.  Your lakester has such a classic look and feel.   

Don't edit that film.... I don't care if you think you were a blubbering idiot pre-race, you were just like all of us.  :-D  I am looking forward to seeing it.  Get it up... the video... I'm sure everything else is still up...  :roll:   its only been a month or so right....
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 05, 2009, 04:26:03 AM
Ok , I've seen it now. No not a blubbering idiot just the usual foul mouthed chatterbox, engaging in schoolboy level chit-chat with Grumm.......the shot is static and is from my (our) left shoulder  so you can't see down the track.....the staging is most of it...the Rev and I making(whispered) plans to harm our German photographer mate Frank while we stage a hand-shake shot for him to shoot, Grumm telling me to run 165 on the 150 license pass( me.."I'm on it"), Grumm making like he's farting into the cab once I'm strapped in....the usual stuff. Me swearing , more, "f*** get the umbrella I'm dieing in here!"

It doesn't show the tach,the GPS or the shift light and I can't hear the motor faltering as the fuel pump cut-out hits at 5200.. but I still get all keyed up when I watch it.......1 minute 34 seconds from leaving the line to buttoning off at the three mile . Not really much for the casual observer . It seems strange but I don't have much memory of the runs , I guess because of the anticipation and the adrenaline and the fact that the runs themselves are fairly uneventful and featureless .......but, don't get me wrong , just sitting there watching this little video pretty much of my hands on the wheel and the sound of the motor...I was holding my breath and an inch off my seat ..........I need to get out more :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on May 12, 2009, 04:44:48 AM
And congratulations are in order to the Rev and the lovely Amber (Ms.Rev) on the birth of , According to Rev , Trillian Scrumptious von Pomborneit Hedgash last nite at ten PM AUEST
I hope he was joking about the name
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on May 12, 2009, 08:44:16 AM
That's great news!

Congrats to Amber and Rev.

Welcome "Lilly von gash" .  TSvPH is just too long for a welcome, but just right for the teenage years call in.

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredeuce on May 18, 2009, 02:45:08 AM
And congratulations are in order to the Rev and the lovely Amber (Ms.Rev) on the birth of , According to Rev , Trillian Scrumptious von Pomborneit Hedgash last nite at ten PM AUEST
I hope he was joking about the name
G

Im sure a name like that is now actionable in the Courts. Sounds a bit Pythonesque to me. A bit like Norman St. John Polevaulter whose been contradicting people lately.  :-D

Congrats Rev on the littl'un. :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on May 18, 2009, 08:17:09 AM
Im sure a name like that is now actionable in the Courts. Sounds a bit Pythonesque to me. A bit like Norman St. John Polevaulter whose been contradicting people lately.  :-D

Congrats Rev on the littl'un. :cheers:


I was thinking it was more chitty chitty bang bang

G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on May 21, 2009, 11:47:57 PM
the SpeedWeek that was...
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/SaltSunset.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Peter Jack on May 22, 2009, 08:16:22 AM
Photography's my other obsession. That's a great shot!

Pete


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 25, 2009, 02:17:29 AM
Photography's my other obsession. That's a great shot!
Pete

The best shots I have seen of the car ( there's a few!!!) are by our old mate Frank Kletchskus.....now despite everything we hurl at him he keeps coming back......Frank is obsessed by anything old with wheels, he had a Brough ,he has wartime sidecar jobs..........he used to be a fashion photographer but there's a certain age where you either give that up or go to jail......now he travels the world sometimes dragging his Indian with him, sometimes not. He writes articles for car and bike mags and sometimes they get published.....just the other day he sent us all a pdf of one that he hadn't yet been paid for about the last DLRA meet , it was great Frank but none of us can read spinach or Spanich or even Spanish...but , the photo's were great.........


anyway Frank sent us a contact sheet a while back of pics of the Bellytank's first time at the salt with strict instructions that it was not to be shown ......the shots were absolutely fantastic, and even some torch lit long exposures......

FRANK IF YOU ARE LURKING POST SOME OF YOUR PHOTOS HERE,NOW !!!!WE'RE DYING TO SEE THEM.


Title: eye-feast from Frank
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 27, 2009, 11:47:49 PM
Well it seems that the hassle worked . Frank has sent me an email with a link to his new site, it's only just up and running but there's some nice stuff and it isn't all of our tank :roll:.......gee if you go to the main page there's even some stuff from his former life as a fashion snapper.......

bog in

http://www.frankkletschkus.moonfruit.com/speed/4533837790


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on May 28, 2009, 12:04:43 AM
Great slideshow!  Great looking car!

Mike


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 30, 2009, 01:49:30 AM
The picture of the belly tank on the salt at night is unusual but nice.  That is quite a trick to get the lighting just right.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 30, 2009, 03:18:29 AM
The "night" shots are from what I gather a long digital exposure and he may use a torch light ....I'll check up on that......but yeah they're great , also good are the one's of the three wheeler with the camera on a boom mount off the car so it is sharp and all else blurred....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: manta22 on May 30, 2009, 12:05:52 PM
Very nice photos-- thanks.

The cockpit switches are mounted "upside down" from what I'm used to. Southern hemisphere effect?  :-D

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 06, 2009, 10:55:57 PM
Yesterday was the first "Tank Day" for the '09/10 racing year....all that I'd really done was take the bodywork off , let the tyres down and give it a wash. The fact that there was moisture beading on parts of the frame indicated that there was still salt residue , old timers will attest to the kinds of places it gets to.So yesterday we did the job properly . We emptied the water tank and took it off so we could get in to the engine bay, removed the fuel tank filter and lines and plugged up everything on the motor and gave it a really good wash. It has never looked so clean.

 It was good to get into the bay and see that nothing had given up, also to see that some oil had got out of the gearbox breather and dripped straight onto one of the collector pipes.....that explains the rich sulphur smell on my first run.Nothing looked cooked, the heat shields that we had placed anywhere that the exhaust went near something vital all seemed to do their job, the gearshift linkages all look AOK. There's another list going up on the board inside the shed....this time there are items in blue and red, they are non-vital and expensive rather than the essential items in white.

In the removal of the fuel pump and lines I had a bit of a muck around with it and after emptying the fuel out of it and hooking a wire up to it found that it had freed itself up ......it's a Bosch 580 044, it has only gone about 30miles......it now has written on it "died '09, keep as spare" my feeling is that it has copped a piece of epoxy from the tank lining. We will buy a new one. We will install a sock and a better in-line filter before the pump.While we were emptying the fuel tank I heard that all too familiar sucking sound as we drained the fuel through the outlet hose...I built a cross piece about one and a half inches high that sits over the outlet to prevent eddying......that obviously doesn't work, hopefully a better inline filter will lessen the potential for dangerous cavitation. I now regret even thinking of building the Al fuel tank, the effort of getting it fuel tight and expense of the liner in the end were a waste. I should have made one out of steel, or stainless with a removable plate so I could farnarkle about inside AND use an intank pump...because they are cheap and plentiful...............note to self..........the companies that make cars by the million do lots of things that save them money,and make things last longer and easier to fix when they don't( not always but mostly)......watch and learn son. :oops:

We need to upgrade our fire system. There is a problem that we are fast running out of room inside the car. There is a third bottle mount but we are not sure yet that we have the correct weight of extinguishant for the 200mph category..... There is the possibility we'll go a complete rework and place a large bottle in the very tail.

The blower manifold needs to be built, the associated changes for that are yet to be sorted.....injectors? MAP sensor?

We are looking into front brakes, drums will fit inside what we have , we were just never keen on the extra "stuff" that we need up there to run them but if there is another test and tune day at Mangalore airfield we are going to need them.


Anyway, that was Tank Day.......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on June 07, 2009, 07:45:04 AM
Thanks for the nice refrain on the wear from this year's racing. 

What's "farnakle"?  Farkle to the next power?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: willieworld on June 07, 2009, 10:44:31 AM
 "In essence, Farnarkeling is engaged in by two teams whose purpose is to arkle, and to prevent the other team from arkeling, using a flukem to propel a gonad through sets of posts situated at random around the periphery of a grommet. Arkeling is not permissible, however, from any position adjacent to the phlange (or leiderkrantz) or from within 15 yards of the wiffenwacker at the point where the shifting tube abuts the centre-line on either side of the 34 metre mark, measured from the valve at the back of the defending side's transom-housing."      willie buchta


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on June 07, 2009, 11:20:52 AM
"In essence, Farnarkeling is engaged in by two teams whose purpose is to arkle, and to prevent the other team from arkeling, using a flukem to propel a gonad through sets of posts situated at random around the periphery of a grommet. Arkeling is not permissible, however, from any position adjacent to the phlange (or leiderkrantz) or from within 15 yards of the wiffenwacker at the point where the shifting tube abuts the centre-line on either side of the 34 metre mark, measured from the valve at the back of the defending side's transom-housing."      willie buchta

Gee, Willie, you're kind of stating the obvious here, but I suppose there might be a few readers who don't understand the nuance and art of Farnarkeling, as per Madagascar rules, which you've so clearly laid out for us.

Indonesian Farnarkeling, well, that's another story.  I'm a traditionalist when it comes to true Farnarkeling - Indonesian Farnarkeling -  but I understand the economics of the sport, and it's still great to watch, even without a quadratic postliner.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 07, 2009, 11:22:55 AM
We will be having many tank (Box?) days between not and 8-01-09  :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 07, 2009, 10:51:42 PM
........and you  know for a minute there I thought you just made that up Wilhelm, as for you others , crikey , blow me down, tie me to a fence post and smear my ears with jam.......

the context I was intending was shall we say "messing,fooling,F******!" around.................like , "is he serious or is he just farnarkling around"

My experience with the you beaut Aluminium fuel tank that I labored over is,

1./ Why did I make it out of Aluminium when I don't need it to be light? (and I didn't make the effort of sticking "carbon fibre look" stuff on the outside.)
2./ Why didn't I use steel when I can weld it airtight in my sleep? ( yeah , I'm a Mig dinosaur....but I could have gone stainless)
3./ Why didn't I make an inspection plate? ( too late now Einstein it's epoxied and it's had fuel in it)
4./ Why am I telling you all this?  :oops:

I guess I am telling you this because I'm being frank about what I think a lot of people know when they come back from some early racing or testing and reflect on how clever they thought they were when  they built this or that little bit , then went just that extra yard to make it work , and a little bit extra for insurance to get back home and think " what a dickhead,how did I fool myself into doing that?"...next time I'll be a little more wary when I'm trying to convince myself of something. :wink:



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hitz on June 07, 2009, 11:26:29 PM
But...............but...... Isn't that just the way it works?? :|


Old enough to know better

Harv


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: theazoldcrow on June 07, 2009, 11:35:37 PM
Harv!  "Old enough to know better,,,,But,,,,young enough not to resist!  Crow  :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on June 10, 2009, 12:26:55 AM
Going a bit hard on yourself Ole-Doc, it's pretty simple really...
Al was flavour of the month when you did it...
the fancy-pants welding course was in full flight, and the tank was being cut-n-shut, there was lots of Al work going on for inspiration. The Al lines were on the welder, there were sheets of the stuff lying around being used to keep the chooks out of the shed.
Seemed right at the time.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on June 10, 2009, 08:13:35 AM
Hey Doc, bearing you soul in public is better than showing your A$$.... usually hindsight is 20/20... this forum is about helping others and showing someone where you think (whether you did or not) you went wrong or could have done it differently... that is what we all aspire to do.  You guys built a great racer, you may have realized by now that it will never be done, that is just the way it is in LSR... always changing something, improving, trying to get that next MPH....
We have raced the Bockscar for 24 years and we usually end up changing something every year, trying to improve, let us know how you guys are doing for the next 20 years.... We will be watching this thread as you improve the tank, keep up the good work
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on June 10, 2009, 09:13:18 AM
Stainless....don't encourage this neanderthal.

When the world goes up-side-down, he will be on top.

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: maj on June 10, 2009, 09:14:43 AM
Doc look inside the entry of your pump, i think you will find there is a screen in there , bosch pumps don't like being squeezed and maybe your mount was a bit tight for it, wetsuit type stubby holder and not too tight hose clamp seems to work well for me, also check your electrical stuff associated with the pump .
i have lately being using ex supercar V8 044 pumps and they always need the fuel cell internal foam pieces removed from the screen before use.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 10, 2009, 06:42:03 PM
Doc look inside the entry of your pump, i think you will find there is a screen in there , bosch pumps don't like being squeezed and maybe your mount was a bit tight for it, wetsuit type stubby holder and not too tight hose clamp seems to work well for me, also check your electrical stuff associated with the pump .
i have lately being using ex supercar V8 044 pumps and they always need the fuel cell internal foam pieces removed from the screen before use.

There you go, polite helpful, knowledgable....and unusually for a motorcyclist he can even spell :evil:.....Thanks Greg, I reckon you may have summed it up, it is clamped inside a piece of exhaust tube , a perfect fit but yes you are probably right.....the other thing I wondered about is whether the wiring was up to it, I noticed( can't remember exactly right now) when I looked into it that they pull BIG current.

Stainless....don't encourage this neanderthal.
When the world goes up-side-down, he will be on top.
FREUD

Now, Freud , I am flattered that you credit me with such potential. :wink:
Going a bit hard on yourself Ole-Doc, it's pretty simple really...
Al was flavour of the month when you did it...
the fancy-pants welding course was in full flight, and the tank was being cut-n-shut, there was lots of Al work going on for inspiration. The Al lines were on the welder, there were sheets of the stuff lying around being used to keep the chooks out of the shed.

a bit of background folks , I had a black and a brown chook, they were called Jack( Black) and Jackie( Brown)...Jack was as silly as a wheel , Jackie however was smarter than some of my friends( not that I'm naming any of them)......NOTHING could keep her out of the shed.....well maybe kevlar but I never had sheets of that lying around........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on June 10, 2009, 08:48:00 PM
Doc, the wiring was our issue 2 years ago, managed to try to pump 20 amp max draw through a 5 amp relay and #18 wire....  the little electrons couldn't get through the chute fast enough to turn the pump pressure to the required number... for the required amount of time... sorted out the problem right after we got back from the salt.... #8 covers the draw with no problem

Freud has confidence in ya if you are drawing his ire....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 10, 2009, 10:13:08 PM
Freud has confidence in ya if you are drawing his ire....

you're right there , I am the talk of the place here at work after the inspiring T-shirt design he sent me t'other day......it has warmed the heart of many :-D :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on June 10, 2009, 10:40:25 PM
When the world goes up-side-down, he will be on top.
It kind of depends on how you look at it - it could be argued that the Good Doctor is already on top, and we're the ones with our maps flipped . . . :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on June 11, 2009, 07:57:34 AM
Doc, the wiring was our issue 2 years ago, managed to try to pump 20 amp max draw through a 5 amp relay and #18 wire....  the little electrons couldn't get through the chute fast enough to turn the pump pressure to the required number... for the required amount of time... sorted out the problem right after we got back from the salt.... #8 covers the draw with no problem

Freud has confidence in ya if you are drawing his ire....

I have every confidence in the 40 amp relay and the wire to the fuel pump circuit
Ohm's law was considered
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on June 11, 2009, 10:48:29 AM
Grumm, thought we did to, that stuff was lurking in the parts of the bike harness we had to use for the bike ECU .... I know, you don't have that issue since you built yours from scratch


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on June 11, 2009, 09:56:16 PM
Grumm, thought we did to, that stuff was lurking in the parts of the bike harness we had to use for the bike ECU .... I know, you don't have that issue since you built yours from scratch

Well, not entirely from scratch!
But there was a lot of head scratching going on when i put the loom on and it worked and then five minutes later didn't work.
It turned out to be a fusable link hidden inside the loom that had fused. Which when i decided that I was "going in" and started to slice the loom open turned out to be in the very first place i looked. And of course i re used the original engine loom which had some issues with the alternator wiring.
G


Title: In the background.....................
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 24, 2009, 09:06:17 PM
Yeah, you guessed I am the kind of guy to be standing in the background pulling faces when they interview someone on TV, waving "Hi Mum" as the camera pans over the crowd, face pressed up against the glass behind the breakfast show, well not really but it fitted with the photo below...Paul McIntosh has built up a Vespa smoker.... http://www.vespalabs.org/  with a KDX donor.....he's a smart and determined cat ....well, smart enough at least to use our car in the background of his shot..... :wink:

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/PICT1339_Large.jpg)

We've had a great amount of magazine coverage for the car, nearly all positive , no-one more surprised than us ............., I haven't got tired of looking at it yet, and that's saying something because we sure as hail have a lot of pix.One guy had the cheek to suggest that the Rev and I had made our names up.....indeed :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stan Back on June 24, 2009, 09:58:27 PM
I can't imagine that!

Stan Back


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: willieworld on June 24, 2009, 10:55:20 PM
Dr.    how fast did the vespa run and does anyone know the speed rating on the tires     willie buchta


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 24, 2009, 11:11:45 PM
Wilhelm, the Vespa fell short of expectations, but he will be back. Grumm441 ( the short fat guy with the limp , not the tall skinny guy with the limp...that's me apparently)who has been answering your questions about the 10 inchers is tight with him...It was Paul I gather who turned upwiththe letter from the manufacturer of the tyres ......I'll shut up now ...Grumm is the man to PM over this one.
adios.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: jl222 on June 24, 2009, 11:19:30 PM
Dr.    how fast did the vespa run and does anyone know the speed rating on the tires     willie buchta

  Willie if you go to that Vespa site and search around under landspeed the guy has a site about the scooter and what tires he used '' P rated''

  Good luck JL222

    scroll way down to ''dry lake racer'' then when site comes up hit dry lake racer again.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: willieworld on June 24, 2009, 11:29:27 PM
Dr.  i sent paul an e-mail and he wrote me back he is having the same problem as me  they did raise the tire rating that he is using but still below sheris fuel record--i did find some tires for a 10 in rim that are H and V rated i am going to build sheri a new bike basically around the front wheel and tire --so you can see the importance of having a higher rating than we really need --the good news is the H and V rated are made by the same company and will fit on the same rim  --i dont have the part numbers yet but when i do i will send them to paul---thanks for all of your help it is much appricated                              willie buchta


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on June 25, 2009, 04:14:23 AM
Willie
Paul's problem is that he can only run a 3.50 x 10 on the back as even a little bit bigger runs into the engine case
And that picture is Paul internetscooter s vespa
I believe the top speed was 82.201
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 19, 2009, 09:05:59 PM
Ok Ok Ok enough of the scooter chat , crikey , what is this .....ITS THE AUSTRALIAN BELLYTANK PAGE that's what it is....anyway , you're probably wondering what has been happening on the tank front.....the short answer is not very much, at all. I have been busy on eBay looking for the kind of things we might want to put in it , mustering the readies to buy a tough bottom end that we have been offered and generally trying to keep the issue of Salt racing and expenses off the front page at home.....sort of like an anti publicist....it's a covert operation that ticks away silently in the back ground until the end of the year when it explodes into a fully blown panic driven dash to get the car ready again .Best at this point that we can hope for will be a tougher motor .The dreams of changing the rear end to a 2.6 FDR( no , not a dead President , Final Drive Ratio) or lower from 2.77 appear to be a little ambitious at this point.

We may get to build the blower manifold and get the M90 set up organised but that remains to be seen.What will definitely happen is the cosmetic tidy up on thescreen/canopy and some rejigging of the fire system and possibly the front tyres will be changed to Eagles from the current M/T Front runners.

As it stands we're thrilled that Jon chose to use an image of the tank on the Salt Talks T-shirt ! it's a great honor that we haven't taken lightly....along with all the local press we got this year. It just seems that we kind of hit the wall after five years of work to finally get the car to where it belongs, on the salt.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on July 27, 2009, 03:35:12 AM

Now that I am a dad   and pretty much living over 200 kilometers from the shed tank days are getting a bit thin on the  ground so we have got to make them count. (Final name for the kid: Alice Orlando Forrest-Jarman... we got lucky, she is great fun already)

Sooooo... having spent half the day fixing the old motorhome's suspension we got to the important stuff of working again on the tank.

Order of the day was to start finalising the design trim for the canopy. I reckon this is one of the most important trim details on the car as it completes the face of the car and creates the attitude.

So much of Hot Rodding is about "stance" and we spent a lot of time getting the wheels in the right position for the right stretched out feel. There was not much we could do about angle of attack but we felt it was very important to have the axles down the centreline to tie up a lot of datums into one simple line.

Now we have a similar design issue where we are trying to smooth out a lot of "looks" or stance of the face into one cohesive whole.

We don't want the car to look too much like a jet fighter (which the glass from our canopy is from ((a Jet Maachi trainer))) as that will take away from the traditional bellytank look too much, but maintaining some hints of it is ok.

We don't want it to be too curvilinear as it will be a bit too spaghetti like I think so a balance is required.

I love the great Italian car designers of the 60's and they have a dreamy balance of the straight line and the curve. They also have a cool blend of the animal and the machine which I think is also the attitude that we are after.

So with much masking tape and adjustment we got to a point which I think is getting very close to what are final canopy trim will be. I am also trying to keep in mind how it will relate to future liveries as although the current paintjob looks grouse it is a little too derivative of SoCal for my liking and we need to explore other ideas.

The two side windows of the main canopy we are treating like eyes. We were influenced by the chopped Pierson coupe for the side windows further back which have a knowledgable squint in them (very appropriate for the salt...), and we are looking at blending in with these lines.

There is a crease running along the side of the body of the car that we haven't quite ended properly at the canopy yet and so part of this exercise is to incorporate and finish this element in the trim. Part of the drawing of this eye then has been trying to give it the right glint of menace, without being stupidly angry or otherwise. We are getting close and it will change the feeling of the car a bit which is not a bad thing.

It is really nice to be able to spend time on details now and not just on the have to's.

I forgot to take an image, hey Stew! Go out into the shed and snap one off willya?

rH+




Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 30, 2009, 12:43:00 AM
Its good that you'all are back to thinking about belly tanks with time to work on the small details.  Scooters are dangerous at any speed based on my experiences.  Beer and adolescence may have been factors in most incidents, but I am afraid to ride them sober or otherwise.

Its a very hot night here and I have been thinking about belly tanks.  Has anyone made a tri-belly tank?  The main tank would be similar to the ones used now and the pilot would be in it.  The right tank would cover the right wheels and the left tank would cover the left wheels.  The wheels would project out of the side tank bottoms like the wheels of a motorcycle streamliner.

As I understand, air turbulence around the naked spinning wheels limits belly tank speed.  Covering the wheels tanks may cure this problem and make belly tanks go faster.

Enough for now, its time to go to bed and work on the Triumph in the morning.  We are in the pre-speed trial panic stage.  Lots to do and little time.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on July 30, 2009, 07:47:20 AM

Enough for now, its time to go to bed and work on the Triumph in the morning.  We are in the pre-speed trial panic stage.  Lots to do and little time.

Well you know what they say, "if it wasn't for the last minute, when would anything get done?"
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stan Back on August 01, 2009, 06:12:34 PM
"As I understand, air turbulence around the naked spinning wheels limits belly tank speed.  Covering the wheels tanks may cure this problem and make belly tanks go faster."

Yeah, but  . . . in SCTA they really wouldn't be belly tanks (lakesters) any more.  With the wheels enclosed, they'd run as streamliners -- and the three shapes probably wouldn't be as clean as one shape (streamliner).

Stan


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 01, 2009, 08:36:39 PM
.and therein lies one of the little sweeteners for people running tanks down here in the DLRA.......a pair of cycle guards and you're eligible to run in the streamliner class, and there haven't been many records set there....

Yes it has been very quiet here , I'm recuperating from more surgery to my ankle....it had begun to dish out random nerve twitches and the movement was becoming less rather than more as time went on so I went back in for surgery. They took out the screws that were in it , one of them was very close to a nerve and they suspect may have been responsible for some of the agro.They removed a bone spur which was limiting the dorsal movement ( up and down) and then they had a bit of a dig around and removed a bunch of scar tissue that was attached to the tendon running around the back of my inner ankle and dragging on the nerve.......Ow!...............The surgery went well by all accounts, I was asleep.

There'll be no work in the shed til I'm steady again so in the meantime I'm building myself another Telecaster , four of them are not enough. Am also working on "In the Bacharach of the Ute" which is a little show where we're doing Burt songs in the back of my 1967 pick-up( utility) at a local fringe arts festival....Dumb , but fun....

Most likely for next years Salt meet seems to be another motor, as mentioned earlier, tougher bottom end , more comp, better intake manifold.....we'll see. Meanwhile as the Rev mentioned there are a few ouch ups to the body work going on, there'll no doubt be a " midnight hour" paint job too...... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 19, 2009, 11:42:23 PM
Yesterday marked the start of the "new season"....we had Tank Day and we actually got something done.

Last weekend I was supposed to have gone and collected the short motor that we're going to use for next year but I had a case of the "fire drills" yeah, that means  EVERYBODY OUT ALL EXITS NO WAITING!!! I had a fever. the shakes ,aches and various systems were not functioning in their usual failsafe confidence inspiring way....there was no way I was going for a ten hour drive.

We hoisted the motor. We're keeping the heads, ditching the custom Goggles inlet manifold and looking to get a twin TB sidewinder version made by a local performance crowd who reckon it dynoed with up to 20% more torque and revved over 7000rpm.We ran with a stock cam this year, that goes in favour of one that will produce power up to 7k and we'll be getting another flywheel. The old motor looked just like it did when we put it in , save for a few exhaust leaks, nothing looked tortured and as we thought the heat shields that we made stopped anything getting cooked.

One disappointing find was that one of our fire bottles had crapped itself,I'm here to tell you that Aluminium fire bottles aren't worth Subaru, period. It had a hole where there wasn't supposed to be one, and all the stuff got out.......inside the car. This year we were on the lower limit of how much extinguishant that we needed. Next year we'll be using steel lines too, I don't trust the Al ones.....they are too easily damaged.We didn't think it would but after a bit of work yesterday it seems we can fit a 12lb bottle in the cab which will do us with the 2lb bottle we have for the driver.

We have lots to do , but we know what it is ......it's just what we can afford no more, no less.

Then we had some beer, gee it was a great day. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredeuce on September 20, 2009, 07:53:48 PM

Then we had some beer, gee it was a great day. :wink:

I hope it was some quality beer. No excuse for drinking rubbish these days.

Went to Brisneyland last week to attend the Ekka which is a yearly vintage speedway meet. Discovered James Squire's Golden Ale. A very good drop.  :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 20, 2009, 08:43:20 PM
ya didn't come across Geoff Izzard and his dad at the Ekka did you? he's a DLRA member, his dad built Sprint/speedway cars and midgets and raced for years...he's a cracker.

We drank Coopers Pale, being a crow-eater, so should you Fred.

Now , are you going to have a car at the Lake?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on September 20, 2009, 08:47:55 PM
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=croweater (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=croweater)

Mike


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: theazoldcrow on September 20, 2009, 09:34:10 PM
 :? Hey Dr. Goggles!  Whats a "crow eater?"  I'm always interested in things of that ilk!      Crow.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredeuce on September 20, 2009, 10:21:07 PM
ya didn't come across Geoff Izzard and his dad at the Ekka did you? he's a DLRA member, his dad built Sprint/speedway cars and midgets and raced for years...he's a cracker.

We drank Coopers Pale, being a crow-eater, so should you Fred.

Now , are you going to have a car at the Lake?
Unfortunately, didn't come across Mr Izzard. Not a big crowd there but enough to loose yourself in.

As for the Coopers Pale, I did find that on tap at the Brissy Jazz Club. Now you would have to say they are astute operators. :cheers: Quite a treat to find our local brew on tap in the home of XXXX.
Found another good drop up there which was "Fat Yak Pale Ale" . Again not made in Qld. Can't figure why it is that with the Qld climate Castlemaine Perkins produce such a mediocre drop.Must be the consumption of all of that Bundy that distorts the taste buds.

As for the car I expect it to be running but as to being at the lake that is another matter. That will mean dispensing with the 8 Mikunis sitting atop the engine at present and replacing with a Hilborn style mechanical injection system and a rules change. MVOT is in need of revision. So I don't wish to get too optimistic for next year.  Whilst all of that is going on I will be soon commissioning the home brew I kit won at the DLRA mid year bash at Smurfs in July. First batch will be  a Coopers Sparkly. :-) :-)




Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 20, 2009, 10:37:26 PM
Send some pictures when you develop this thing.  It cheers us up in the colder season to see shots of summer work.  Especially belly tanks.   


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 21, 2009, 12:14:38 AM
Thanks to Portland Mike for the Urbandix def. A Croweater is somebody from Sth Australia,god bless 'em....they were the only state settled without a penal colony...they make good wine, and beer and punch above their weight when it comes to Aussie rules football.

Having said all that nice stuff about them I have to tell you there is something wrong with them, I dunno what it is but it might have something to do with living at the end of the drain for the south East corner of Australia known as the Murray River.Adelaide their main fort is known as the city of churches because you can't call anything the "City of serial killers".....

Maybe I'm just too sensitive and it has something to do with the "Croweater" thing, I don't know why this is either but I really like crows... We have heaps around my place.... I once saw one sitting on a street light staunchion at the end of my street holding one of those little MacDonalds wax paper fries bags with his claw and eating the fries one by one , he is the same big-az fella who lands in my backyard..ever so cagey he scouts it from a few angles before he gets down on the grass because being big and old it takes him a while to get off the ground making him an easy get for a cat.....

Fred,my old man used to brew his own from scratch....blanched the hops and brewed in a big vat.You can imagine he had varying results, he too was a solicitor, but not a hot-rodder.

Those Coopers brew kits are practically infallible, be careful with using anything to "sterilize" the bottles, I alway figured "clean" is better than any residual metabisulphate......the odd bad one due to a wild yeast beats a whole batch that the smbs has killed. I can't guarantee to you that not going to the bottle shop will reduce the amount of alcohol you consume. I brewed with those Coopers kits for a fair while and as you do ( when you're a young buck and too much ain't nearly enough)nearly always over-brewed making 6-7% alc/vol.......my tip is to go under, aim for 4.2-4.6% , then no-one gets hurt, and you can drive after two still.

Herendethelesson.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredeuce on September 21, 2009, 02:00:43 AM
.

Having said all that nice stuff about them I have to tell you there is something wrong with them, I dunno what it is but it might have something to do with living at the end of the drain for the south East corner of Australia known as the Murray River.Adelaide their main fort is known as the city of churches because you can't call anything the "City of serial killers".....



Excuse me whilst I choke on my beloved Coopers.  :?

Now let me see .................  I recall in the recent past a certain TV series called "Underbelly". It would appear events in the erstwhile convict state of Victoria are now unfolding that will no doubt provide ample material for yet a few more installments of this gripping saga. :-) :-) 

He who lives in grass houses shouldn't get stoned. Or something like that.  :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on September 22, 2009, 08:54:12 AM
Mmmmmm
Coopers home brew
I've got about 100 bottled at the moment
And a brew fermenting as we speak
I don't know if this means i'm drinking them too slowly or making them too fast
I tend to aim for about 5%, any more and it starts to taste cidery

He who lives in grass houses shouldn't get stoned. Or something like that.  :-D

Anyhow
That stuff's not legal in Victoria, not like SA
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredeuce on September 22, 2009, 10:22:48 PM

Grumm thanks for the tip on the home brew caper.
It is pleasing to see a Victorian come over from the dark side and find the joy of Coopers' finest. :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: interested bystander on September 22, 2009, 11:22:24 PM
You Aussies are OK.

If you aren't talking about your hotrods you're talkin' about BEER!

The elixer of life!


Title: Australian Belly Tank, Camshafts.....
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 23, 2009, 12:22:31 AM

Grumm thanks for the tip on the home brew caper.
anyone who eats capers is weird, anyone who brews them is just plain foreign......


Fred, I'm with you on Coopers, one of my favorite memories of my first year at the salt was that Coopers Pale was cheaper, and colder at the lakeside canteen than it was ANYWHERE in Melbourne.

still sus' on Adelaide but................and we haven't even started on the water.

Now , on a more serious note and one entirely related to this thread.

On the spec sheet for the cam we are planning on getting for the new build of our motor it states " do not use high revs for the first two hours of operation".....why, specifically is that?

DrG


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hitz on September 23, 2009, 01:14:04 AM
Dr. G,
 Not the pro here on cams but they usually want you to run it around 2,000 rpm for at least 20 min. for cam break in. Long idle times aren't recommended at first either. The higher rpm should be avoided to give the rings a chance to settle in their new home. I don't imagine the valve train should have a lot of rpm for a while either. Roller cams might not need the break in time.  If your running heavy valve springs the cam should be broke in with lighter springs or low lift rockers.
 You'll probably get a lot of different methods to use but you're better off not to get in a hurry to wing it the first few running hours.
 Good to see you are able to spend some time on your lakester.

Harv



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 23, 2009, 03:51:26 AM
Thanks Harv.

I've since spoken to the cam-man and he thought we had flat tappets, we have rollers. So the advice ain't so critical, there won't be many new parts in the motor other than the cam. More to follow........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank, Camshafts.....
Post by: grumm441 on October 06, 2009, 02:49:06 AM

Fred, I'm with you on Coopers, one of my favorite memories of my first year at the salt was that Coopers Pale was cheaper, and colder at the lakeside canteen than it was ANYWHERE in Melbourne.

still sus' on Adelaide but................and we haven't even started on the water.

DrG

I still don't get how a place with such bad water (adeliade) can make such nice beer (coopers)
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on October 10, 2009, 11:38:40 AM
Dr G...........

Coopers and bad water are more important at this time than how to break in a cam.

You better have plenty of Coopers available if u keep waiting to "get started" on the engine.

Is the new "salt" t-shirt designed yet?  2010 may require a separate container just to ship shirts to B'ville.

It seems to me that the break from the Mother Land is complete with this discussion of COLD beer.

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 16, 2009, 05:56:34 PM
Anyhow, moving on from beer, and getting bcak to the build diary
The new, second hand, but somewhat less secondhand than our previous 3 engines,  engine has arrived
G

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Newengine.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on November 16, 2009, 06:25:33 PM
Doc and Grumm, you guys better get to work... you are less than 8000 views to 100K.  As the say in New Orleans... Show us your stuff...
BTW, PM me your shirt sizes and a shipping address


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 17, 2009, 11:33:51 PM
I am at work
So is the motor
now i just need our most recent motor to take "the good bits" off
Looks pretty odd in workshop full of bikes
One more post and i will have reached 100


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 19, 2009, 05:49:23 AM
ok,ok,ok...I'll bring the motor over after the weekend......actually better still I'll just bring over the top end , because you probably don't want the rest of it...I can't get it into the ute because I've got this on it

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/18102009001.jpg)

WTF ? I here echoing around the LSR community....well, we've got this little gig on....she said" I've got this idea, why don't we do a gig called "In the Bacharach of the ute"....me being the do now think later type said, " er , what are we waiting for?".......yeah well , it turned into a bit of a monster...we have the first show this weekend at a street festival...We're doing a bunch of Burt songs..on a ute

Anyways back to the topic which from memory was "Australian Bellytank"......It turns out the people who made a semi affordable billet flywheels here that we need for the motor have lost interest leaving it to the people who do it on a change over basis...."give us your left testicle and we'll give you a flywheel...but not for free"....so we got the bottom end for a very reasonable price, Karma has come to visit and we will be forced to pay very unreasonable prices for a flywheel and the cam, thank god it's only one ....

Meanwhile the Reverend has gone missing in action, he's Architecturing on the new Children's Hospital across the road from my work , I ain't never seen something so big go up so fast, six months ahead of sched' he reckons, and that's a problem for a whole lot of reasons.....least of all he's working too hard , too long and not seeing enough of his new bub.

Myself, apart from the aforementioned gig, has four other bands that have gigs coming up.......and a set to build for a play.....it's a bombsite here...And at work?...well we won't be running out of homeless people anytime soon as far as I can see, but.After Christmas it's tank, tank, tank.

If Jack was around I'd ask him but here goes, who like to offer suggestions on a cam profile for this motor in a gas NA format..........??


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ben james on November 19, 2009, 06:05:42 AM
hi stew, andrew hallam at my work would be able to help with a cam profile. he's a big fan of your tank. and what do you think of kermits new bodywork.
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/benjames/drag%20bike/P1010198.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 19, 2009, 02:23:51 PM
hi stew, andrew hallam at my work would be able to help with a cam profile. he's a big fan of your tank. and what do you think of kermits new bodywork.
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/benjames/drag%20bike/P1010198.jpg)


I'm liking it Benny, but like I said to Wayno yesterday, it looks great but someone has parked a vehicle in front of ...oh right ...nah, it looks great, bit of paint that's gonna look really spesh,...................have you got any closer to working out whether you'll make it next year?I think I can see why you're down on the racing budget..... :wink:

I've been talking to Wades about the bump stick but I figured there'd be folk here who campaigned Buicks and would have some good advice.

I dunno when you took that photo but after the heat last week my grass is the color of that fence :oops:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 19, 2009, 10:39:39 PM
ok,ok,ok...I'll bring the motor over after the weekend......actually better still I'll just bring over the top end , because you probably don't want the rest of it...I can't get it into the ute because I've got this on it

What about you bring the whole motor and let me decide which bits I'm going to use.
I don't want you messing about with it after your previuos efforts
Also, I will not be here next weekas i am getting some service work done on my leg.
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: generatorshovel on November 19, 2009, 11:07:37 PM
Congrats on reaching your milestone Grumm.
By the way, were you 'sposta write anything in my log book this year ?
Tiny


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 20, 2009, 12:32:02 AM
ok,ok,ok...I'll bring the motor over after the weekend......actually better still I'll just bring over the top end , because you probably don't want the rest of it...I can't get it into the ute because I've got this on it

What about you bring the whole motor and let me decide which bits I'm going to use.
I don't want you messing about with it after your previuos efforts
Also, I will not be here next weekas i am getting some service work done on my leg.
G
hey thanks for the vote of confidence.......It's a pity that Ollie isn't around anymore( that was my dog folks) 'cause Ollie seemed to like servicing your leg....................free shoe polish and a service with a smile.....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 21, 2009, 01:55:48 AM
Congrats on reaching your milestone Grumm.
By the way, were you 'sposta write anything in my log book this year ?
Tiny

Yes Tiny I probably was, but was given no instructions on filling in logbooks.
At least you had a log book.

G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on November 21, 2009, 01:25:56 PM
Anyways back to the topic which from memory was "Australian Bellytank"......It turns out the people who made a semi affordable billet flywheels here that we need for the motor have lost interest leaving it to the people who do it on a change over basis...."give us your left testicle and we'll give you a flywheel...but not for free"....so we got the bottom end for a very reasonable price, Karma has come to visit and we will be forced to pay very unreasonable prices for a flywheel and the cam, thank god it's only one ....

...  but, After Christmas it's tank, tank, tank.

If Jack was around I'd ask him but here goes, who like to offer suggestions on a cam profile for this motor in a gas NA format..........??

Ya got to hate it when parts require body parts as partial payment  :|

Most of us have the "hey its getting close to race time thrash" as a planned event.

Jack is around, maybe he will PM you some specs.............


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 23, 2009, 06:26:12 PM
I'm going to a local machine shop that specialises in gears,and they're gonna give me a price on machining a flywheel....I figure they couldn't want more than the only crowd selling the billet jobs here by the time the retail and transport cut is factored in.........the quote I got was $580, with the guy at the counter assuring me "we don't put much on that"......Yella Terra did them for $364 retail.......but they pulled them from the product line due to lack of interest...

Anyway, I'll see....... and I'll let you know.....
 

On the subject of cams this is the sheet for the cam that has been suggested ................

Profile          Actuation             Make/Model           R/Ratio
          1644a            Roller Follower Holden V6  3.8              In1.6 Ex 1.6
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Cam Lift   Duration    Duration   Valve   Valve    Lift      Phase
                       Adv           @050     Clr    Lift     tdc        <)
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Intake     361        300        249      0.016    0.5616    113        107
  Exhaust    361        300        249      0.016    0.5616    098
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------

                             Timing                  Timing
                             Adv                    @ 0.05
                          Open      Close        Open      Close
           Exhaust      77 Bbdc     43 Atdc      53 Bbdc   16 Atdc

           Intake       40 Btdc     80 Abdc      19 Btdc    50 Abdc

                                83                  35
                          Deg Over-lap        Deg Over-lap

                 Intake Centreline  105.5        Exhaust Centreline  108.5


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 23, 2009, 07:36:33 PM
I'm going to a local machine shop that specialises in gears,and they're gonna give me a price on machining a flywheel....I figure they couldn't want more than the only crowd selling the billet jobs here by the time the retail and transport cut is factored in.........the quote I got was $580, with the guy at the counter assuring me "we don't put much on that"......Yella Terra did them for $364 retail.......but they pulled them from the product line due to lack of interest...

Did you try contacting Fidanza?  Their catalog does not include some of their applications - my Midget is a perfect example - not in the book, but available upon request.  Don't honestly know if there's much difference between the Holden 3.8 and the Buick. 

Take advantage of our ever-cheapening American Dollar, Mate.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 23, 2009, 08:10:12 PM
.....car parts....the US dollar and SO MANY GUITARS........I'm gonna put a block on eBay before I go broke

just got a pretty good price and local to my place........it's getting better....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 23, 2009, 10:12:51 PM
I haven't disappeared.

I'm lurking.

One notable omission from the recent reports is our discussions on wheels and tyres.

I'll lay down a brief outline for the record.

In short we need new Landspeed tyres because our Mickey Thompsons frontrunners wont cut it with the speeds we are now running.

The ideal scenario is to get Mickey Thompson 30" units on the back and move our Goodyear 28" Landspeeds to the front. This will keep the ever so slight raking of the car from the back to the front as is our design want (for both looks and for aero).

The problem is there are NO 30" tyres available here and we would have to ship them.

Also strangely enough after looking very hard for a long time now, we don't seem to have any steel 18" rims in the country either! I know the Tundra has them, and various other cars in the States, but when they come here they always seem to have only alloys available, so no wreckers cheapies there.

So it looks like we would have to ship some steel wheels out as well! We would then have to chop the rims off and get a Ford 5 bolt (1975 Lincoln pattern I think) centre put in offset appropriately to cover our drum brakes.

Yes, this is the ideal scenario as it keeps the stance, improves the ratio, makes us salt legal, but unfortunately the importing of all this on top of the purchase price and wheel manufacture just kills it.

We still need tyres to run, but we are thinking now of getting a second set of Landspeeds at 28" and put them on our current rims on the front and tweak the axle height to maintain the rake. I don't want to lower the rear end as it runs beautifully through the centreline of the car now which is a great look.

There are a history of bellytanks when I look through the years having same front and rear wheel diameters which give them a kind of 4 wheel drey kind of a feel which is kind of interesting.

Other news:
I have started fiddling around with a new colour scheme. It is going to be tough to be better than last years historically inspired red with cream scallops but hey, too many cars have that one.

Anyone want to sponsor us and have their company colours on the car now is the time to put your hand up!

rH+





Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on November 23, 2009, 10:40:17 PM
RevH, I can contribute a gallon of flat black iron fence paint for your new scheme....  :-o  I have some left over from doing my fence and the fairings on the bike.  It leaves a great aero finish.... see the golf ball thread for more info  :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 24, 2009, 12:01:48 AM
A little background for the audience on the relationship, principally between the Rev and I but of course importantly the involvement of the Colonel( Grumm) as well.

We communicate mostly on email, as if we were on the other side of the earth....generally sarcasm is the order of the day from me, blunt dismissal from the Colonel ( he talks to us like we're two kids fighting)and provocation disguised as inquiry from the Rev.......I lost a significant part of my life looking into the 18 inch wheel deal about five years ago before deciding to run with the pack and going 15's with Goodyears. The Rev baits me with occasional links to 18 inch wheel and tyre sets for sale ( usually in the US) ,  and responds to my assertions that we are wasting our time and money( still) by even looking into it by finding an 18 inch wheel for sale in Back-blocks-ville with a question like " is this the right offset?".......I downgrade the importance of the rake and tyre size proportions to aesthetics ,the Rev asks me how my latest hand injury is coming along, I oversimplify the task of building the motor and the Colonel then refers to the "Sand motor"( the one that had the manifold off it , uncovered in the shed when I fired up the sandblaster...the Colonel turned up took one look into the valley of it and said" take that out you dill it's no good anymore....and throw it away" and then left without saying anything else.We figured he was annoyed.
 "
So anyway, that's the background........I start reading the post above....he's going on about 18 inch wheels ...I'm having "one of those days at work where anything other than what I'm supposed to be doing seems a good idea " so I've been ringing around about some parts we need and I see......EIGHTEEN INCH WHEELS, YOU $#%@^@&(*@&^%^#$$&#^#%$ :x...I nearly had a coronary, then I get to the bit about how the cost kills it and breathe a massive sigh of relief.....he got me again....
 
This folks is a valuable part of what makes the whole thing work....what did make me really happy is that the Rev is starting a new color scheme...pretty much everything he draws looks great...then I have to paint it...now even a slap-happy halfbaked rough as guts rush merchant like me made last years job look good because the lines were there...when I look at the shots from this years meet I can see the lack of symmetry( as Von Dutch said "what,you got eyes on both sides of yer head?"), the rough bits and all ...

I'm hoping for Lake Placid blue and cream this yearI sent him this pic a while back as a suggestion...Ok I'm a guitar player...(the more astute amongst you may notice this is a bass :roll:)
(http://www.usaxe.com/inst_images/83.jpg)
 ...it'll be the same sort of job, no tack rags, bugger all wet rub and a bucket of clear on top but it'll look swell all for about a days work....If I drew it and he painted it it would take three weeks and look terrible ...we can't afford either.......thank heavens for teamwork..............Hey Grumm , hurry up with the motor, it's just bloody nuts and bolts. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 24, 2009, 12:02:28 AM
Thanks for the offer Stainless, will you pay postage too?

There was a bellytank here that looked grouse in Matt Black, the Brougham bellytank.

It was an unfortunate baby poo brown from pre solids days, then one year it turned up hot rod black and looked like some weird U-Boat, but this year it went red and white and lost some of its panache.

Next year? John if you're reading your plans on colour?

rH+

ps I am ignoring the above.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on November 24, 2009, 09:44:17 AM
Not to be a putz (or stir the pot more than it already is  :-o) but if you are looking to put new centers in already, couldn't you order just the hoops from a wheel shop here in the states? 

Or will they not sell them that way?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 24, 2009, 03:43:35 PM
Hey Erik,
are you finished on the Berkeley? :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 24, 2009, 05:09:09 PM
"Sand motor"( the one that had the manifold off it , uncovered in the shed when I fired up the sandblaster...the Colonel turned up took one look into the valley of it and said" take that out you dill it's no good anymore....and throw it away" and then left without saying anything else.We figured he was annoyed.
.......thank heavens for teamwork..............Hey Grumm , hurry up with the motor, it's just bloody nuts and bolts. :wink:
Or of course there is the pushrod incident

I have the misfortune of being at work on Saturday this week ,I'm filling in for the salesman with my highly develpoed people skills, so feel free to bring it over to work then.
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 24, 2009, 05:17:37 PM
Or of course there is the pushrod incident

...granted...

I have the misfortune of being at work on Saturday this week ,I'm filling in for the salesman with my highly developed people skills, so feel free to bring it over to work then.
G

pity the poor customer :-P..... Saturday is the day then, I'm at home wagging so as to clean up the fort..... :wink:


ps: hope you didn't mind me sorting your grammar


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 24, 2009, 05:28:13 PM
...remind me what the pushrod incident was I seem to have forgotten...?

Wheel hoops? Where do we get them???
Quanta costa?

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 24, 2009, 05:38:48 PM
The "pushrod incident" refers to the fitting of the wrong set of pushrods to my ute during an engine rebuild, preventing the valves from closing,the valves are things inside the motor.........ok.

Now, what car exactly are you planning on getting these 18inch "hoops" for?   .......Erik is just trying to stick an umbrella in the spokes , he's from Alaska and he's probably snow bound right now with no-one to bother, he's chosen us.....he's in there somewhere laughing at us right now.....

(http://www.meadowwoodgarden.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/snowbound.jpg)

BTW:....Not to be a putz (or stir the pot more than it already is  ) ....if you stir pots with yr "putz" Erik you're a brave man :-o...and better endowed than most....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 24, 2009, 07:00:10 PM
Don't knock Alaska, they produce people like Sarah Palin...

rH+



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Ron Gibson on November 24, 2009, 08:10:55 PM
18" wheel hoops.  M. E. Miller Tire. Look under implement in column on left.

Ron


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on November 24, 2009, 09:56:40 PM
That blue is mighty close to a 65 Futura colour.
Did the Bacha-ute show happen in Satdee's monsoon?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 24, 2009, 10:19:21 PM
yeah.......just as I finished the guitar solo in "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head" a chunk of water about the size of Footscray and an inch think fell on us.....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/PB211161.jpg)

got heaps of work out of it but.......

That's me and Deb up front , Ian and Alics the world beating rhythm section at rear and 1967 Holden HR ute underneath........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 24, 2009, 10:20:25 PM
That blue is mighty close to a 65 Futura colour.
Did the Bacha-ute show happen in Satdee's monsoon?

Actually, Leo Fender used a lot of stock automotive colors in the 1960's, both Ford and GM.  It wouldn't surprise me that Lake Placid Blue was a Ford color.

Doc, Rev, I gotta say, the scheme you have right now is classic, and the only reason I'd change colors is if it made it go faster.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Peter Jack on November 24, 2009, 11:32:27 PM
Nice stage, good work!

Pete


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on November 24, 2009, 11:50:38 PM
Sarah Palin has a huge motorhome with her name on the side of it. She's on a USA tour signing books.

Don't you forget it.

She's in the lower 48 where she doesn't have to wear as many clothes and that qualifies her as something to behold.

Matter not that she ain't won anything political.

But she is a Grandmother as a result of her out of control daughter and an Alaskan stud that has gone hunting.

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 25, 2009, 01:47:28 AM


That would be the ute that has the engine out of the same car that the gearbox in the belly tank was removed from
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Bob Ellis on November 25, 2009, 06:15:12 AM
Jeeez ya look good in that white outfit Dr G ,and ya girl Deb on the guitar,WOW,Keep up the good work,He He He !!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on November 25, 2009, 06:42:53 AM
No, so far we have the Berk torn down to a roller and are reverse engineering the mill. It's got some pieces in there that are better than stock, but could be better still for running at the salt. (couldn't everything  :? )

"Hoop" the rim portion of the wheel that you weld the center to, without the center installed. 

I've never tried to purchase them seperately, but I would expect the import duty would be less as they are a component as opposed to a finished product. If you have to import them.

Just a thought I had as it sounds like whatever width and offset wheel you could get is still going to involve cutting & welding, might as well skip the cutting part.  :-)

Not snowbound, yet.

Hey Freud, maybe not on the National stage, but she was Gov for a while, till the lawsuits Dodge near bankrupt her and her hubby. (best law money can buy  :roll: )


On that note, before I somehow get a 'chewin from slim, lets steer away from the political stuff eh?


Looks like a good time with the band, till the "rain" fell. :-o


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on November 25, 2009, 07:40:39 PM
WOW, you snapped me back to reality.

I just remembered, Jesse Ventura was also a governor.

Wonder what the common thread was.

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 25, 2009, 09:18:47 PM
WOW, you snapped me back to reality.
I just remembered, Jesse Ventura was also a governor.
Wonder what the common thread was.
FREUD

Top effort Ferd, only 20 words and you fitted "reality" and "Jesse Ventura" in there..................

Hey Erik, "hoop" wasn't a new word to me.........the decision was made back when the Spirit of Sunshine was but a glint in our eyes to go 15's because they were "good value for money"(comparatively)....the graph starts to level off pretty much when you look at the cost of those M/T's and the extra rolling distance they give you ( big/not much).....please, please, no-body mention the 18's...........







Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 25, 2009, 11:09:40 PM
.....please, please, no-body mention the 18's...........


http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10517#10517

Too late
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 26, 2009, 12:24:41 AM
In an unnerving set of circumstances I ran into a bag lady the other day who used to harass me at a gig we used to do in Smith st (the rest of the band called her "your girlfriend") my boss was with me.....he has not let it rest since...I have been getting "hahahahahah...sorry,, hahahahaaha" texts DAILY since...it's nearly as annoying as the 18 inch thing, nearly.

So, I;m talking to Howard at Race Brakes, I get the background on a whole lot of goss on people in the salt game here.......mentions he sold some spindles or hubs (I can't remember) to Gary for the Jag , I get the low-down on the stuff up with the RodShop and one of his franchisees.....man what a saga  I'd say there'll be a soap written about it soon......

Anyway back on topic . On the page before this one I posted cam specs, does anyone out there have any comment on them? we're debating the severity of it and whether we go for something a little milder......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 26, 2009, 02:03:53 AM
On the page before this one I posted cam specs, does anyone out there have any comment on them? we're debating the severity of it and whether we go for something a little milder......
As Number Two used to say to Number 6 back in the Village, "Information . . . We want . . . Information"

It's probably all here, but you've got 53 pages going, so let's sum up:

RPM at the speed your looking to achieve.

Extent to which the ports are worked.

Valve size.

Induction.

Rocker ratio.

Compression ratio.

That will get us started.


 
 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on November 26, 2009, 01:00:14 PM
Chris, I'm not really hijacking the thread -- but will sorta anyway.  Thank you very much, and please carry those thanks to your sponsor.  On the relish tray at our Thanksgiving dinner table is a nice display of Milwaukee Midget dill pickles.  Nancy put 'em out and right away I thought of your kindness in donating them.  They made the long trip here from Bonneville very well, thank you -- other than they seem to have turned green during their travels.

Happy Thanksgiving.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 26, 2009, 01:10:57 PM
Bon appetit, Slim and Nancy!

They should be British Racing Green, if I'm not mistaken. :-D

Okay, Rev, you can have your thread back now.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 26, 2009, 02:41:13 PM


As Number Two used to say to Number 6 back in the Village, "Information . . . We want . . . Information"

It's probably all here, but you've got 53 pages going, so let's sum up:
RPM at the speed your looking to achieve ?.
This year we ran 160.4@5200 .............6800-7000rpm will see us over 200mph with the current gearing.

Extent to which the ports are worked?.

fairly extensive porting job at the hands of the Colonel

Valve size?.

Inlet 1.77  Exhaust 1.5

Induction?
2x65mm
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P9160260.jpg?t=1189987507)

Rocker ratio?.
1.65:1( I think)

Compression ratio.?

9.6:1


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on November 26, 2009, 03:17:59 PM
Is that intake setup going to fit under the body?  I don't want to see the lines buggered up with bumps and scoops and what have you.  You have such a smooth tank and have worked hard to keep it aero.  Nice idea using two throttle bodies.  They could go on the end and not on the top.  Did you see the thread on intakes for the rear engine roadster build with the tapering plenum?

I'm looking forward to the V6 build.  Half a V12 so I may get some ideas I can double!  8-)

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 26, 2009, 03:39:36 PM
Is that intake setup going to fit under the body? 

yeah, that's what we ran this year.....

There was discussion between the Colonel and I as to whether we'd try a twin TB set-up that is on the market here that makes nearly 30% more torque than stock , it's a sidewinder set up so it fits under the stock sedan hood, we're sticking with ours........it hasn't been back to back with a standard one on the dyno but the Col. seems to think it would probably stack up well so we're keeping the readies to spend on other bits.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 26, 2009, 05:42:48 PM
Quote
As Number Two used to say to Number 6 back in the Village, "Information . . . We want . . . Information"



Love that series, so much so I presented the whole 17 episodes in a pub in Melbourne. I got a strange group of local geeks who'd come in, drink one or two drinks, then leave when it finished.

I told them that the clue to the riddle was in the title sequence, but none of them could work it out and were just as shocked as BBC viewers were when they saw the last episode. I will not spoil it here.

I visited the village, Portmeirion, where it was filmed in North Wales, it is still exactly the same. Even the fake boat that doesn't go anywhere is there. The whole place was designed by an architect who collected bits of old buildings to save them from being destroyed; it was meant to be the first eco village and has a really weird sense of scale about it. A lot of things look bigger than they actually are, so when you go to walk to them you arrive quite a  bit before you thought you would.

Wikipedia says:

Portmeirion is an Italianate resort village in Gwynedd, on the coast of Snowdonia in Wales. The village is located in the community of Penrhyndeudraeth, on the estuary of the River Dwyryd, 2 miles (3.2 km) south east of Porthmadog, and 1 mile (1.6 km) from the railway station at Minffordd, which is served by both the narrow gauge Ffestiniog Railway and Arriva Trains Wales (Cambrian Line).

Got to love the Welsh...

There is a new version:

http://www.aol.com.au/tv/story/The-Prisoner-preview-AMCs-remake-just-as-bizarre-as-the-original/2394144/index.html

Haven't seen it yet, hopefully they haven't missed the point.

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 26, 2009, 09:34:16 PM
Have been mulling over the cam question and in deep discussion with the Colonel. The cam sheet shown on the previous page was for a 1644a which needs to made from a new billet. The best they can do on a regrind is a 1365a , there is the a sheet for that cam at the bottom of the page. We are leaning toward it not just for budgetary reasons. As everybody here knows there is no end to how much money you can spend on a motor and once you start modifying there is no "sensible" level as there is the great tug of war between performance and insurance......we want more power, but we want it to driveable(rather not push it off the line for now) and have some longevity, it for us is fun for the moment ,not grounds for divorce and if word gets out that we're spending a home extension on the motor we're flicked............ As the Colonel said " we could ask around for some Formula Holden heads( they'd have roller rockers at 1.7:1 big valves and a port job...) but we'd be better spending that money on the Alloytec"(electronically variable quad-cam all alloy)......

But we want to get up toward , or beyond 200 with this old Buick based donk before we go to the trouble of building the necessaries to fit the Alloytec.

here is the cam sheet

   Profile          Actuation             Make/Model           R/Ratio
          1365A10          Roller Follower Holden V6  3.8              In1.6 Ex 1.6
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Cam Lift   Duration    Duration   Valve   Valve    Lift      Phase
                       Adv           @050     Clr    Lift     tdc        <)
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Intake     313        282        228      Hyd      0.5008    068        110
  Exhaust    313        282        228      Hyd      0.5008    055
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------

                             Timing                  Timing
                             Adv                    @ 0.05
                          Open      Close        Open      Close
           Exhaust      74 Bbdc     28 Atdc      47 Bbdc   1 Atdc

           Intake       34 Btdc     68 Abdc      7 Btdc     41 Abdc

                                62                  8
                          Deg Over-lap        Deg Over-lap

                 Intake Centreline  107          Exhaust Centreline  113


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 27, 2009, 02:11:58 AM
Let me chuck out a few thoughts.

I seem to recall that you had a rev limiting issue, that it was electronically related, and we'll assume it's been addressed.

9.6:1 Compression ratio - no way to up that this year?  Maybe a head shave?  Is this a fuel related issue, or economic?

By the way, what is the octane of the fuel you have available?

Assuming the intake and ports flow properly, looks like you've got room for bigger valves.  3.8 bore, correct?  6800-7000 seems doable, but the question is, what kind of horsepower will you get there?  I'm thinking the short overlap on the 1365A, combined with the small valves, might choke off on the top end.  Did you flow the head?

The 1644A will respond up top, probably right in the range you want it to, but you'll need more compression to exploit it.

Of course, a regrind might give you an opportunity to use those extra long pushrods -  :roll:

I'm still cypherin' on this, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling.  Do you know your current cam specs?

Blue always says, "Don't guess, test".  You guys are in this for the long term.  If it were me, and I had to make a decision before March, I'd take the incremental approach.  I'd go with the 1365A, and see if it puts you where you want to be.  After that, be it success or failure, the decisions get tougher and will require a more holistic approach.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 27, 2009, 11:31:25 PM
....................took the motor to Colonel's workshop this morning , at least I hope it was him, I had a late night. We discussed the compression issue. "Huh? then we'll have issues with the inlet manifold...."

"isn't there enough meat to just port match it?"

"deah.... the extra comp'll bring it's own bunch of problems that we probably don't want to have to deal with anyway"

at this point we hoisted it out of the back of the ute, the ute which I last night backed into a gatepost with the tailgate down, nice, put a cleft right in the top of it where it will be no simple job to pull it out......

had to take the flywheel off to get it onto the engine stand...gee those flywheel bolts were kind of loose :?

I left it there with him, the new bottom end , and the cat Cohen who has his own place on the parts shelves, with a stock number......"Part: Cat( Cohen) Qty: 1"


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on November 28, 2009, 01:04:13 AM
WOW, you snapped me back to reality.

I just remembered, Jesse Ventura was also a governor.

Wonder what the common thread was.

FREUD

Since I already suggested a stop to this, I'll respond via PM.

Hopefully ending the Hijack.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ben james on November 28, 2009, 05:11:02 AM
jesse the body ventura, you're bleedin dutch, ain't got time to bleed, name the movie


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 29, 2009, 06:37:10 AM

Maybe a head shave? 
By the way, what is the octane of the fuel you have available?
Did you flow the head?
Of course, a regrind might give you an opportunity to use those extra long pushrods -  :roll:



So i shaved my head, now my ears are cold and my car doesn't go any faster! :roll:
I believe we were using 98 ron  fuel but as i spent the first two days of the meeting scrutineering bikes, I'm not sure what they had in it, and as The Dr ran EG/L and the Rev ran EF/L (10mph slower)  I'm not sure I want to ask
As for the extra long pushrods, I'm not sure that they curve the right way for the intended application.
No the heads weren't flowed as this wasn't in the budget, just a cleanup port job and some new springs

I will look at the valve sizes when i get the heads off as i think i have one or two larger valves lying around that were going to in the double hump heads that i was going to put on the monaro (see avitar) and the more i look at them the more i think they are just old junk.
I think that if we were going to go down the trick heads route we should probably look for some formula holden heads second hand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Holden
as we have the brand new quad cam v6 alloytech sitting in my shed all the other engines, waiting for 2011

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Dsc_1166.jpg)
 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: maj on November 29, 2009, 07:09:04 AM
Why wait or spend on the old engine if you already have better ??

if your going to machine the old v6 heads, also machine the inlet manifold side of the head , need to check but i think its ~.090 off the manifold side for every .100 off the head , if the heads are closed chamber its better to do the block


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 29, 2009, 09:47:18 AM

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Dsc_1166.jpg)
 
Now that's a holistic approach.  Note to self - 2011 - opening NEW worm can! :-D

Hell, just screw the old one together with the regrind for now.

Are the authorities on board for the March event this year?  I know it's always a bit dodgy.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on November 29, 2009, 10:21:58 AM
Bill and I went out junkyarding.  What an enjoyable sport.  We talked about our motors what we could do with them and the vast sums of knowledge and parts available.  Old school stuff.  We got around to the newer engines and poked and measured.  Talked for hours as we wandered.  Found out we would need to modify a few things to go from old to new generation.

About halfway through the morning we realized flogging the old horse was not going to get us where we needed to go.  The newest generation engines was the only place to be spending time and money.

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 29, 2009, 01:24:01 PM
About halfway through the morning we realized flogging the old horse was not going to get us where we needed to go.  The newest generation engines was the only place to be spending time and money.
Geo
Good point.  The question then becomes an issue of time and philosophy.  Do you spend the next 3 months making a new engine work with the tank?  Do you have the ECU for the quad-cam?  Will it mate up to your transmission?  How important is a new paint job?
. . . we want to get up toward , or beyond 200 with this old Buick based donk before we go to the trouble of building the necessaries to fit the Alloytec.

It looks like the chassis is well sorted out . . .

. . . it ran as straight as a die, and correction was simple as we drove.

One more run would have been the absolute cherry on the top, but as we were using the stock computer for the motor it may not have gone much faster as there is an engine cutout at around 5500rpm. The Colonel built an override for the fuel cutout at 5200rpm so there was still some legs in her.

For next year we need to:
  • Make the seat more comfortable; there is a cross bar which bruised Dr G's bum so amendments required there.
    Up the fire extinguishers for the 200mph requirement level
    Improve the hatch hinge which proved a little fragile.
    Get all the switches properly mounted on the steering wheel
    Make puke tanks for the diff breather and petrol breather
    Install a ball valve to protect fuel spill in a roll-over
    Install a better speedo, our tacho looked great but was not accurate. We resorted to using the Colonels GPS which worked a treat. May simply put a bicycle speedo on the front wheel.
    Improve the parachute release mechanism, it is prone to not locking properly (!)
    Get ready the Megasquirt engine management system so we can override the old computer and improve high end mix
    Finish and improve the trim around the front canopy
    improve bodywork joins, fixings etc
    New paint job

So much to do so little time!!!

Indeed.

Set up the old donk with the new cam, finish the above, and that's a three month laundry list right there, especially with the holidays just around the corner.

But then, part of the fun is the burning of midnight oil in the mad-dash attempt to bring something new in under the wire.

Don't you just love philosophy? 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 29, 2009, 03:58:06 PM

Now that's a holistic approach.  Note to self - 2011 - opening NEW worm can! :-D


Worm can opened :evil:
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on November 29, 2009, 05:14:08 PM
Quote
So, I;m talking to Howard at Race Brakes, I get the background on a whole lot of goss on people in the salt game here.......mentions he sold some spindles or hubs (I can't remember) to Gary for the Jag , I get the low-down on the stuff up with the RodShop and one of his franchisees

Catching up on some reading here....

So what's the goss?
Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 29, 2009, 06:01:15 PM
Now, see that's just wasteful really...if you had of just LOOKED you would have seen that I already had a can open...............two cans of worms!! that's like a beer in each hand , sheesh.

Got some housework done in the shed yesterday, by next weekend it'll be back to an operative ,sort of, workshop.

I had a bit of a flashback with a collection of every different type of flywheel sitting on the bench..and now here we are buying another one.

All the above suggestions/opinions made/make sense....it's a quadratic equation where the knowns are moula and time ........we'll keep you informed. :wink: :wink:

No big deal Lynchy, but it seems that It was a franchisee who "bought" the Rod shop and pooped in the nest big time...Howard wasn't timid about his feelingsd for the guy, it splattered far and wide....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 29, 2009, 06:58:03 PM
jesse the body ventura, you're bleedin dutch, ain't got time to bleed, name the movie

Predator of course! before the franchise went bad.

That would make a good name for the new Kwaka Ben...

d


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on November 29, 2009, 08:05:51 PM
I get the impression  :? that we may be using the same alphabet- :evil: --but I don't think we are not speaking the same language :?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 29, 2009, 08:53:13 PM
I get the impression  :? that we may be using the same alphabet- :evil: --but I don't think we are not speaking the same language :?

Apparently we speak English

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26186795-401,00.html


G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 29, 2009, 08:58:10 PM
It's Ok Bill , we're leaking the same spanguage :evil:....it's just that there are six conversations going on at once...
1./ There's a discussion going on about our Bellytank and the new motor build.Thanks to all who have made valuable comment.
2./ There's a running commentary from me about the Hum Drum of getting back into the swing .
3./ There's Freud.
4./ There's Ben, now he rides motorbikes and watches too many movies, sometimes he's a little reality starved.
5./There's the Reverend, he's halfway through a sermon about  :-o yawn.....

And finally there's you Sparky , asking , rightly , what the hail it's all about.....I'll soon have 'em all lulled into a stupor and it will be much much easier to understand.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 29, 2009, 09:31:58 PM
Speaking of sermons, I'd like to thank all of you who PMed me on the issue of 18inch wheels, some good info there...

One question I have is does anyone know if anyone is shipping a car to Australia for 2010?

Maybe for assistance this end (lending a car, lending a room at Dr G's place, T-eeing up some sheilas) they could throw our wheels in the back seat prior to loading...?

rH+
Why do ugly guys get to make lurve? Because they ask!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Old Gringo on November 29, 2009, 09:41:25 PM
I get the impression  :? that we may be using the same alphabet- :evil: --but I don't think we are not speaking the same language :?
  For those of us that have trouble with converting Aussie to American. I found this conversion site. http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html. Give it a try.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 29, 2009, 09:52:00 PM
Quote
Apparently we speak English

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26186795-401,00.html

That's not just Julia's problem (our dear vice prime minister) with her nasal monotone twang, I don't think anyone knows where she is from*.

In the U.S. I got complemented on my ability as an Australian to speak the "American language" so well by a Texan (I'm OK at English, but my Spanish and Portugese is a little unpolished), and I was asked whether I was catching the bus back to Australia one night too... from California no less.

Loved the place though, there is so much to see and do in the US there really is not much need to see or know about the rest of the world.

rH+



*Actually, she was born in Wales and so no wonder she talks funny... see earlier post on Welsh names.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on November 29, 2009, 10:57:15 PM
*Actually, she was born in Wales and so no wonder she talks funny... see earlier post on Welsh names.
The most difficulty I ever encountered understanding what I was told was English was a few years back in Dublin, at Jury's Inn Custom House, which had been all but overrun with Welsh rugby fans on the eve of a match.

It was like I was at a Star Trek convention, and everyone was speaking Klingon.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 29, 2009, 11:27:43 PM
Klingon! Now that's a language!

When I heard that some nerd had taken the Klingon word dictionary from the scriptwriters to make a bible translated into Klingon, my friend and I thought, hmmmm their is something we can do here.

The end result was a concept that might have some legs. Basically; a klingon cover band called "Klingon Nation".

I can see the video now, clean white studio cyclorama, well dressed klingon in a purple silk shirt and lipstick, looking into the camera and singing Spandeau Ballets' Gold (but in Klingon).

My friend suggested "Colors" would be a good live clip to do (complete with shotgun) and I reckon there'd have to be one of those songs with a filmclip of a klingon driving an open top ferrari on a cliff top road with a female Klingon driving her open top Porsche the other way, lots a jewellery and the sun is shining.

Gee, if I only had money and time... it'd be bigger than the Village People.

rH+









Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 29, 2009, 11:42:35 PM
Klingon! Now that's a language!

When I heard that some nerd had taken the Klingon word dictionary from the scriptwriters to make a bible translated into Klingon, my friend and I thought, hmmmm their is something we can do here.

The end result was a concept that might have some legs. Basically; a klingon cover band called "Klingon Nation".

I can see the video now, clean white studio cyclorama, well dressed klingon in a purple silk shirt and lipstick, looking into the camera and singing Spandeau Ballets' Gold (but in Klingon).

My friend suggested "Colors" would be a good live clip to do (complete with shotgun) and I reckon there'd have to be one of those songs with a filmclip of a klingon driving an open top ferrari on a cliff top road with a female Klingon driving her open top Porsche the other way, lots a jewellery and the sun is shining.

Gee, if I only had money and time... it'd be bigger than the Village People.

rH+





Yawn

Dik , do you perhaps have some Kangaroos loose in the top paddock


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: landsendlynda on November 29, 2009, 11:52:19 PM
You guys need to go race something!!  Even if it's pogo sticks...(you got them there?), tricycles, roller skates, lawnmowers...something!!  Of course, you could always get to work on your build, it's obvious you have plenty of time on your hands, so go get 'em greasy!!  Bark those knuckles using the wrong wrench in the wrong place...

You're wasting precious time...2010 will be here in 31 days and you're not ready to go racing yet!!  Get busy!!

Lynda


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on November 30, 2009, 03:32:34 AM
You guys need to go race something!!  Even if it's pogo sticks...(you got them there?), tricycles, roller skates, lawnmowers...something!!  Of course, you could always get to work on your build, it's obvious you have plenty of time on your hands, so go get 'em greasy!!  Bark those knuckles using the wrong wrench in the wrong place...

You're wasting precious time...2010 will be here in 31 days and you're not ready to go racing yet!!  Get busy!!

Lynda

Pogo sticks? (and we even call them pogo sticks) don't start them. I can see what I will be using to get round the pits
Yep, there will be knuckle barking going on.
I run a metric bike workshop
the current tank motor isn't
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ben james on November 30, 2009, 06:01:44 AM
jesse the body ventura, you're bleedin dutch, ain't got time to bleed, name the movie

Predator of course! before the franchise went bad.

That would make a good name for the new Kwaka Ben...

d
i was thinking the toecutter,
ASK THE TOECUTTER HE KNOWS WHO I AM,
name that movie, only the yanks can answer that one, no aussies.
relavent to kz1000 kawasakis


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Bob Ellis on November 30, 2009, 06:12:58 AM
Dear Reverend , maybe its time to take down your old Village People (and Boy George) posters,and Get Some New Ideas (Not the Mag),
And couldn't it be a Corvette & a T'Bird,and singing AC/DC's "Highway To Hell" ??


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Bob Ellis on November 30, 2009, 06:16:17 AM
Hey Ben , "Road Warrior" (in USA)( Mad Max in Aust) (I'm not Aussie so i can win????).


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ben james on November 30, 2009, 06:47:36 AM
bugger,bloody kiwis :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on November 30, 2009, 08:47:28 AM
IT musta ben the movies :?  that threw me off track---yeah it had to have ben "themovies" 8-)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on November 30, 2009, 10:29:44 AM
Hey Ben , "Road Warrior" (in USA)( Mad Max in Aust) (I'm not Aussie so i can win????).

BE, Mad Max races at Bonneville..... Latest thread Beyond Thunderdome....


Title: Re: Australian budget movies. Mad Max
Post by: grumm441 on November 30, 2009, 03:57:55 PM
We don't mention that movie around my family.
My father was one of half a dozen doctors that was asked to invest in it's production
He didn't.
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 30, 2009, 05:20:35 PM
....what a Goose...

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object3/499/124/n26285463846_6176.jpg)

 :wink:

OK enough of the movies


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on November 30, 2009, 06:42:41 PM
Dear Reverend , maybe its time to take down your old Village People (and Boy George) posters,and Get Some New Ideas (Not the Mag),
And couldn't it be a Corvette & a T'Bird,and singing AC/DC's "Highway To Hell" ??

That's not bad, but I want it so cringeworthy it hurts.

Besides, it would have to be jailbreak.

Mad Max four: I trust George Miller wont stuff it, he has done alright so far with his series... Happy Feet was a bit of a departure but still a hero's journey like everything he does.

He took a big risk with Tina Turner in Thunderdome but I reckon Angry Anderson saved it.

I also reckon there will be a queue around the block of Aussie actors wanting to be in it longer than Star wars had. (and boy, didn't that turn out great! :roll:)

Speaking of the Australian language, Road Warrior is an interesting watch with the Yank accents dubbed in. You US citizens should get a DVD of the original Mad MAx with the original voices. Much noicer.

Lake Gairdenr has very much the Mad Max vibe, hope we don't lose it.

rH+






Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: gearheadeh on November 30, 2009, 09:00:03 PM
 :-D

All in good fun......

auzzy etiquette

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Never take a beer to a job interview.
2. Always identify people in your yard before shooting them.
3. It's tacky to take an esky to church
4. If you have to vacuum the bed, it's time to change the sheets.
5. Even if you're certain you're included in the will, it's rude to take the trailer to the funeral home.
DINING OUT
1. When decanting wine from the box, tilt the paper cup and pour slowly so as not to bruise the wine.
2. If drinking directly from the bottle, hold it with only one hand.
ENTERTAINING IN YOUR HOME
1. A centrepiece for the table should never be anything prepared by a taxidermist
2. Don't allow the dog to eat at the table, no matter how good his manners.
PERSONAL HYGIENE
1. While ears need to be cleaned regularly, this should be done in private, using ones OWN Ute keys.
2. Even if you live alone, deodorant isn't a waste of money.
3. Use of toiletries can only delay bathing a few days.
4. Dirt and grease under the fingernails is a no-no, as it detracts from woman's jewellery and alters the taste of finger foods.
DATING (outside the family)
1. Always offer to bait your date's hook, especially on the first date.
2. Be assertive. Let her know you're interested: "I've been wanting to go out with you since I read that stuff on the dunny door two years ago."
3.Establish with her parents what time she's expected back. Some will say 10:00 PM; others might say "Monday." If the latter is the answer, it's the man's responsibility to get her to school on time.
THEATRE ETIQUETTE
1. Crying babies should be taken to the lobby and picked up after the movie ends.
2. Refrain from talking to characters on the screen. Tests have proven they can't hear you.
WEDDINGS
1. Livestock is a poor choice for a wedding gift.
2. Kissing the bride for more than five seconds may get you shot.
3. For the groom, at least, rent a tux. A sweatsuit with a cummerbund and a clean football jumper can create a tacky appearance.
4.Though uncomfortable, say "yes" to socks and shoes for the occasion.
DRIVING ETIQUETTE
1. Dim your headlights for approaching vehicles, even if the gun's loaded and the roo's in sight.
2. When approaching a roundabout, the vehicle with the largest tyres doesn't always have the right of way.
3. Never tow another car using panty hose and duct tape.
4. When sending your wife down the road with a petrol can, it's impolite to ask her to also bring back beer.
__________________
Copyright © 2003-2009 barry williams
All Rights Reserved


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on December 01, 2009, 12:11:35 AM
Okay, I'm guilty too - I joined in with the Welsh comments, sent the Rev into the wilderness by making oblique references to Patrick McGoohan, then off to the pulpit to preach from the Klingon Bible. Freud got some of us started with Sarah Palin's Cross Country tour, Bob and Ben spun us off into tangents of less attractive state governors, but the issue remains . . .

WASSUP WITH THE CAR, BOYS? :?

 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on December 01, 2009, 02:26:55 AM

4. When sending your wife down the road with a petrol can, it's impolite to ask her to also bring back beer.


Ay

What are you talking about. it would be impolite if she didn't bring back beer

And, "a Dingo took it", is not an excuse.

G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 02, 2009, 08:40:39 AM
the issue remains . . .
WASSUP WITH THE CAR, BOYS? :?

Votes please.

I'm making the new fuel tank, ditching the Al one
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/CopyofP8260218-1.jpg)and making one with an access panel.We're currently blaming the Al one for cavitating and frying the pump, access will allow us to sock the outlet, OR, use an internal.......

Stainless or mild steel ?

If it's mild I'll be keeping it FULL of juice permanently(moist air, high corrosion environment :evil:), despite my unquestioned abilities( :roll:) If I go Inox I am leaning toward laying it out and taking it to a professional( :?)to zip it up.....

Tell me.



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on December 02, 2009, 10:15:17 AM
Stick with the one you have... how is it vented... you could change the way you use it.    What size is the outlet... Where is the pump in relation to the outlet.. How did it cavitate...
I was going to look for the info in the thread... but 50+ pages is like looking for a piece of straw in a hay stack 

definitely not mild


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 02, 2009, 03:32:32 PM
it has a breather in the top,not visible in that shot.There is no filter sock in the tank....just a sump and deep cross piece over to outlet in an attempt to defeat vortexing......we could move the pump further away( longer hose pre-pump).....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: maj on December 02, 2009, 04:06:44 PM
You could put the pump in tank ...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 02, 2009, 04:57:37 PM
You could put the pump in tank ...
We're currently blaming the Al one for cavitating and frying the pump, access will allow us to sock the outlet, OR, use an internal.......

yeah, thing is that Al tank is epoxy lined.......that'd mean cutting it to make an access panel, then re-lining it.............the stainless would cost me less than the lining......on the positive side in-tanks are a little cheaper, on the negative side it's easier to "isolate" components with an external.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on December 02, 2009, 06:51:16 PM
yeah, thing is that Al tank is epoxy lined.......that'd mean cutting it to make an access panel, then re-lining it.............the stainless would cost me less than the lining......on the positive side in-tanks are a little cheaper, on the negative side it's easier to "isolate" components with an external.
I can think of a no more banally ludicrous pain in the b*#t than changing out an in-tank fuel pump.

Drain the gas, remove the tank, disconnect the wires, make sure the pump is properly grounded, rewire, fire it up, watch it leak - repeat. 

With luck, it would be the last time you need to do it, but you're talking a change of power plant next year, and will the in-tank you install this year provide sufficient fuel for the quad-cam? 

I'd go with an external pump that's easy to access and change in the field, if necessary.

Ooooooooh - stainless -
shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   


Title: Australian Belly Tank fuel pump woes
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 04, 2009, 09:41:35 PM
 I spent some time staring at it last night. Quiet contemplation.When I made the fuel tank that is in it I underestimated the hassle value.I suspect I have since allowed the true value of the hassle to diminish in my memory...... There is a dim light blinking at the moment and it has a dymo label under it that says "warning, time wasting imminent" .....I don't want to spend the time and money on making a new tank when I know for a fact that other things are going to come up and there will be a fix for the current ills of the fuel tank, and someone out there will know what to do.

Just to reiterate , the fuel pump ,a Bosch 580 254 044 carked it after a life of about 1 hour running time....we suspect that it was cavitating, but I still won't rule out a foreign object such as a dag of epoxy , or Al or whatever..It is clamped in a beer can size clamp that doesn't pinch it, there are heat shields so it is not subjected to any extreme radiant heat, it has the correct gauge wiring

Below is a diagram drawn with a thumbnail dipped in tar...note there is no filter before the pump, no sock in the tank.The breather runs off from top left.There is a splash guard against the return line and also a cross shaped piece over the outlet to stop swirl......***EDIT****I might have to check that again....the filter may be between the tank and pump...it's currently disassembled and at a glance I thought that was how it went together but I msy be wrong, anyway.....who thinks what will help is important.

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/001.jpg)

The tank is epoxy lined so if I have to cut it I might as well make another one because I won't be able to weld anything to it...

Who has suggestions as to whether an additional filter would help?,
would a swirl tank help?,
would longer lines before the pump help?.

HELP PLEASE!!!! :?

PS: It's OK to be brutal :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on December 05, 2009, 12:19:27 AM
A pre pump screen would be a good idea. I say screen as I don't particularly trust a "filter" (either 'paper' or synthetic element) prior to the pump as it is more likely to cause a restriction that could lead to cavitation of the pump.

My 2cents are still on something solid making it into the pump inlet.

How large is the hose leading to the pump? Is it large enough that the smallest fitting in that run has a interior bore size large enough to pass the fuel to the pump without restriction (all straigt or "tube" bends, no "drilled" fittings)?

Pump inlet hose is of a type that it won't "suck flat"?

I expect you know to check for all that, but it bears mention as I, and several others I've seen have been caught short before with having something installed for mockup that wasn't intended to run, but missing it somehow on "final" assembly.



If you are set on a new tank, stainless if in the budget. Anything but mild.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Peter Jack on December 05, 2009, 01:02:48 AM
If you're going to build a stainless tank be absolutely sure you back purge the tank when you weld it. The quality goes up exponentially.

My choice would be to use the screen type filter before the pump with the present tank.

Pete


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on December 05, 2009, 11:57:08 AM
is it possible that the vent line acted at a P trap as in a sewer system- :?--I  know of engs that went lean because the tank couldn't vent properly---it takes a larger line to vent than most think---remember press. vs velocity


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 05, 2009, 04:20:06 PM
is it possible that the vent line acted at a P trap as in a sewer system- :?--I  know of engs that went lean because the tank couldn't vent properly---it takes a larger line to vent than most think---remember press. vs velocity

Good point , and an easy one to change just in case, Thanks Bill.

A pre pump screen would be a good idea. I say screen as I don't particularly trust a "filter" (either 'paper' or synthetic element) prior to the pump as it is more likely to cause a restriction that could lead to cavitation of the pump.
...been lying awake thinking of ways to make a swirl pot/screen filter container
How large is the hose leading to the pump? Is it large enough that the smallest fitting in that run has a interior bore size large enough to pass the fuel to the pump without restriction (all straigt or "tube" bends, no "drilled" fittings)?

yep, the specified size
Pump inlet hose is of a type that it won't "suck flat".
Will be changing to steel just in case.

I expect you know to check for all that, but it bears mention as I, and several others I've seen have been caught short before with having something installed for mockup that wasn't intended to run, but missing it somehow on "final" assembly.
Hallelujah on that one salt brother, I mean, "tight" and "finished" are relative terms , aren't they? :? :?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Peter Jack on December 05, 2009, 05:22:22 PM
Look up any of the American speed equipment sites and you'll find screen type filters that can be disassembled for inspection. I'd probably start with Speedway Motors and Summit. It's never ending from there. You might add Oberg to the list.

Pete


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on December 07, 2009, 02:13:38 AM
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_u0_IOr1cg0w/SxypzoragtI/AAAAAAAAAF0/beMQ-Lqa8BY/s800/_3070311.jpg)
...one more Maxy reference


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on December 07, 2009, 04:19:24 PM
Well, yes, there's not tight enough, tight enough, too tight, and how diesel mechanics seem to tighten stuff (crank it till it shears and back off a 1/4 turn  :-P ).

Finished?

Are any of these ever finished? :?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rex Schimmer on December 13, 2009, 06:20:58 PM
Doc Goggles,
I would recommend puting your pressure regulator after the fuel rail, this insures that there is fuel flowing thru the fuel rail, under pressure , all the time. The way you have is set up there can be an air pocket captured at the end of the fuel rail. It will eventually go away but in the mean time your injectors will be injecting air. I assume that your fuel regulator is a three port unit with one port going staight thru and the other being the return port. You will need to plug one of the thru ports and then run a line from the end of the fuel rail to the other port and of course run the return line back to the tank. This insures that there is always fuel flowing thru the rail and that there is not air.

I am in the process of installing a VERY large filter on the suction side of my electronic fuel pump in my street roadster, it has Hilborn electronic injection. I very much dislike having a pump suck thru a filter but my ECU guy tells me I need to protect the pumps from junk in the gas tank as it can make them go bad. My pump happens to be from a Porsche Turbo that I have had for over 20 years, I never throw anything away! so replacing it could be expensive.  I also have a tall and narrow fuel tank so I have some additional "head" that helps the inlet conditions on the fuel pump. The filter I am installing is 2-1/2 inches in diameter, 12 inches long and has 3/4 NPT ports so I think, even using a 10 micron filter, that the pressure drop will not be much. I had a very bad experience this summer coming back from Bonneville in my roadster all related to the small fuel filter that I was using and I don't want to do it again!!

I posted a pic of my engine , and you can see the fuel from the fuel pump goes int the RH end of the fuel rail and then thru the fuel regulator on the lower left hand side and back to the tank.

Rex


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 13, 2009, 08:57:04 PM
Sorry Rex another result of my rushed post with the diagram , the fuel reg IS at the end of the fuel rail. We are wondering now if we should just use a smaller pump than the 044 that we have been using( it will support 700hp, we don't quite have a half of that), less draw, less chance of cavitating?.................


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wolcottjl on December 13, 2009, 09:03:30 PM
I have a Bosch 044 pump that has been abused and still runs day in and day out.  The unit is junkyard piece off of a VW rabbit or passat that had over 100K miles.  I forget which.  I do run a screen as a pre-filter. 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on December 29, 2009, 07:49:54 PM
So, did you find a little piece of fuel tank in your pump?  If you are worried about vortex, put fuel foam in the tank, but be sure you have a prepump filter.  Just a screen filter would work.  We actually use a holly blue (pumps anything and everything) at the tank, pumping to the filter and then on to the Bosch EFI pump. 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 03, 2010, 06:40:43 AM
Well, I haven't taken that pump apart again but you're on the right track. I bought two big bits of fuel foam a few weeks back...today I cut the top out of the fuel tank. Just to recount, the tank is Al, and epoxy lined.....I didn't have a sock filter in it but did have a deep cross piece over the outlet to try and defeat vortexing. So anyway I hooked a hose up to the outlet, filled it with water and cut the top out leaving a 1 inch border.Lo and freakin behold, when we look inside there is about a pint of epoxy sitting in the end where the outlet is...the tank has been left to sit on a 45 degree angle before the goo has gone off , completely covering the cross piece, and filling the "sump" area of the tank........then a drill bit has been run up the outlet......top effort....

The Colonel is going to make a gasket and screw down the plate we've made for the top, and then attach the piece with the filler neck to that, stuffed full of foam we should be fairly confident that it won't cavitate... We're buying a slightly smaller pump than the 044 which is bigger than we need.

I cleaned up and touched up the paint on the wheels, just a brush , rough as guts because the wheels have discs on both sides.

We found that the last surviving 1.5kg Cold Fire cylinder had carked it...corroded through. We're going to run one 4 kg cylinder for the fuel tank, sump and upper engine bay nozzles and keep a single 1.5kg cylinder for the cab.

We have decided to change the way the chute release operates. At the moment the doors are loaded by the drone spring pressure, this runs the risks of the doors opening accidentally and also means that sometimes the catch jams. We have decided to try and use a strap arrangement to retain the chute and drone and have the bay doors kept closed by magnets, when the pin is pulled it will release the strap allowing the drone to open the doors and pull the chute out.

I gave the screen a cut too with some 800 1200 and then 2000, I'll finish that when I run a buffer over the car as it goes in the trailer.

We also began to work out a better way to organize the canopy hinge....the current arrangement is made so that if the car is upside down the canopy pins can be popped and the canopy removed, but it tends to come of the ferrules which keep the pivot points aligned and allows the canopy to fall too far forward..

We've got 60 days.


Title: Re: Stralian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on January 03, 2010, 07:03:44 AM
So apart from that you can see by the board
We have also put a new battery in the clock on the wall
G

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/ored.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on January 03, 2010, 08:50:21 AM
It's fun to read about the "youse guys" begining thrash--glad you found your "likely culprit" on the fuel issues!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 03, 2010, 05:27:52 PM
Sparky, your name came up yesterday. I told the Rev about your two motor different trans 4wd deal....he kind of glazed over......"huh?, wha?".............

we had beer too. Now, I'm back sitting at my desk, in nice clothes.....wondering where the last two weeks went...and wondering how I'm gonna get everything done AND get to the lake AND run 200mph...... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on January 03, 2010, 10:33:25 PM
..... wondering how I'm gonna get everything done AND get to the lake AND run 200mph...... :wink:

Persistence...  8-)  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: robfrey on January 03, 2010, 10:50:37 PM
we had beer too. Now, I'm back sitting at my desk, in nice clothes.....wondering where the last two weeks went...and wondering how I'm gonna get everything done AND get to the lake AND run 200mph...... :wink:
[/quote]

Sleep less, eat less often and faster, work off a single "to do list" whiteboard, surround yourself with people like BBarn that keep telling you "we can do it!"
That's what works for me. love your project, can't wait to hear what it does.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 03, 2010, 11:20:35 PM
, surround yourself with people like BBarn that keep telling you "we can do it!"
That's what works for me. love your project, can't wait to hear what it does.

That's usually my job,  :-D , baseless enthusiasm, unshakeable confidence in the near impossible and a seeming inability to accept the inevitable, listen to a sensible voice or for that matter a voice of reason......

almost perfect for this sport... :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on January 04, 2010, 06:56:33 AM
, surround yourself with people like BBarn that keep telling you "we can do it!"
That's what works for me. love your project, can't wait to hear what it does.

That's usually my job,  :-D , baseless enthusiasm, unshakeable confidence in the near impossible and a seeming inability to accept the inevitable, listen to a sensible voice or for that matter a voice of reason......

almost perfect for this sport... :wink:

And then there is me
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on January 04, 2010, 10:13:53 AM
wondering where the last two weeks went...and wondering how I'm gonna get everything done AND get to the lake AND run 200mph......

"Enthusastic PRECISTANCE Patience"
  and in the words of one of your "Pommey"{ may not be correct usage} cousins  "Never, never, never. never surender"!
,




Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 04, 2010, 03:57:26 PM
We are sort of like you guys.  We can't get it all done on time, and we have seven months.  Its not lack of time to work on things.  Its not enough time to save up the dough, buy the stuff, install it, and test it.  I won't run an engine unless it is broken in.  We will have everything done except the cam and pipes and we will probably go slower this year.  We tell our sponsors and fans that this is a "development year."  That way, if we go faster, its OK, and if we go slower, we have a pre-made excuse. Either way we will run and have a good time.



 

   


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 04, 2010, 05:06:06 PM
Hey, we'll be there....it's just that I never understand how it DOES happen.....the motor ain't built, I don't even know what I'm driving there, fire system...gotta be retested, reconfigured, ....check out the "to do list" on the photo above ....lots to do, it will be done , we will be there......we'll come home with a hat or a heap.


58 days. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on January 04, 2010, 05:21:19 PM
Working from a list is good, but our problem was always you clear 1 and add 2... prioritize necessity vs want
good luck  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Mini Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on January 05, 2010, 05:01:01 AM
Our backup plan

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Dsc_2800.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 05, 2010, 06:33:14 AM
......and like you said...."and then there is me"........ , so anyway, thanks for maintaining the facade that we're serious, sensible, and focused on the "sharp end" of landspeed racing.......I think you should avoid taking holidays,or if you must then spend the time meditating, or indulging in the dark art of porting.

EDIT: Cripes! I just noticed ....are you wearing a sports bra?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on January 05, 2010, 10:21:52 AM
 :? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on January 05, 2010, 10:45:15 AM
Yep, you guys are my type of serious racers.... hope that's a Nomex sports bra...  :-o
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on January 06, 2010, 12:49:45 AM
Corrine asked me to point out that she is in fact wearing what's known in Aus as a "wife beater"
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wife%20beater
If it's nomex or not, i cannot say
See if you recognise the steering wheel .
G
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Dsc_2801.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 06, 2010, 03:54:53 PM
hmmmm, I dunno what to say but i'm figuring I'm gonna get clobbered whatever happens here, I know I can outrun you...........does she have a gun license too?

Yes the steering wheel is familiar and yeah I know where your gonna stick it next time you see me...

BTW bidding has started on the Monaro, the racing budget will soon get a top-up.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on January 07, 2010, 10:02:31 AM
Mmmm   Monaro

And for anyone who hasn't seen it

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Bat327.jpg)


Title: Aussie Belly Tank fire system
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 10, 2010, 05:25:37 PM
...well, my Monaro weren't quiite like the Colonel's , but it's sold anyway....

Now , here is something that some people might find interesting.....

Yesterday the Colonel and I emptied the smaller bottles we had for our fire system .You may remember me commenting that they were failing at an alarming rate, one failed inspection before we went to the lake last year, another one ruptured not long after we got back from the lake and a month or so back we found the pressure lost in yet another one.

When we emptied them we found there to be large chunks of solid , some of them the size of your fingernail, one of the dip tubes broke ,and they were all blocked anyway......To be honest I'd bet my last dollar they wouldn't have worked, the solids would have blocked the nozzles....if they got that far..........And by the way....it's just soap, whatever they want to call it.

Due to the fail rate I made the comment to the Rev and the Colonel that we may as well empty the cylinders  after each trip to the lake because the solution corrodes the cylinders so badly, the checks and refills are much cheaper than the hardware , so in the long run it will work out cheaper ( and have more peace of mind ) to empty and clean them every year and then have them refilled the month before we go.

I'm glad our car didn't catch fire............................................................... 

 We have made the decision top move from the 1.5 kg to the 4Kg as a matter of necessity under the rules.so we've been tossing up where the best place to put them is as there is very very little available space anywhere in the car. We have elected to put them either side of the driver again where the original ones were but we'll have to make cut out in either side of the seat back.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on January 11, 2010, 07:43:09 AM
Am just sitting at home in Melbourne. It's 11:35 PM and according to the weather bureau, it was 35.9 degrees Celsius at 11;25 pm
Thats about 96F. Oh and it was 43.6c (110.3f) at 5 pm
Any how on to business
One of the siphon tubes just broke when i touched it
The good news is that the siphon tubes in the bigger bottles are not made of Aluminium but stainless steel


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on January 11, 2010, 08:11:14 AM
Guys,

Thanks for reporting this.  What type of agent are in the extinguishers?

Cold Fire, AFFF Water & Foam, Water Mist, Wet Chemical, Regular Dry Chemical, ABC Muli-Purpose, Purple K, Carbon Dioxide, Halon?

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 11, 2010, 08:37:00 AM
ColdFire.

My recommendation is to empty them at the end of the season, then refill them shortly before you need them and get them certified. This way the cylinders and fitting will last a lot longer AND there will be no risk that the solids will form which will potentially block the lines or nozzles.

I didn't look that far into it ( Dean LA will sort us here I suggest) but from what I remember Aluminium is a reactive metal that protects itself with an impermeable oxide, obviously the solution in this system breaks down the oxide and so corrosion continues unabated , added to the issue of the detergent coagulating. Sure it might be "residue free" and "non-toxic plant based"...........but our system was terminally compromised and I believe non-functional.

I made the comment to the Colonel when we were doing this ..." It's weird ya know, they let you build your whole f****n car and yet you ain't allowed to look after the fire system, when it's patently obvious that the certification/design of this ain't satisfactory....." To be honest I'll say here and now , after seeing what I did , I'd be perfectly happy to empty the cylinders AFTER they were certified just to make sure they were OK....because last year they were stickered and yet as far as I can see they were next to useless.

Once again , off the bat without checking I have a feeling Halon has been banned after an asphyxiation (non-fatal) during DLRA Speedweek 2006....personally I don't want any oxygen replacing compound released in our car.......maybe powder or CO2 in the rear of the car but definitely not near me.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Ron Gibson on January 11, 2010, 01:59:15 PM
Just wondering if you know if the bottles were pressurized with air instead of nitrogen. The fire extinguisher company I use says they use nitrogen. I think (my opinion) there wouldn't be any corrosion without oxygen. Someone way smarter than me may chime in on this.

Ron


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: jl222 on January 11, 2010, 02:54:42 PM
  Ist.... Congratulations  :cheers:  100,000 hits on build diary the 1st, good job and entertaining too :-D

  Thanks on the heads up on Cold Fire,thats what we run and am now concerned. Just removed bottles yesterday and
  would like some answers from Cold Fire before I have them certified. Its a 4 hour drive one way to get them certified so refilling
  would mean 2 trips as shipping pressurized bottles is not allowed.

                JL222


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 11, 2010, 03:13:01 PM
Thanks John, we've enjoyed every minute of it.

I guess you're right about the nitrogen Ron, it would make sense.......and like wise someone with the knowledge will chime in.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on January 11, 2010, 11:05:18 PM
 Thanks on the heads up on Cold Fire,thats what we run and am now concerned. Just removed bottles yesterday and
  would like some answers from Cold Fire before I have them certified. Its a 4 hour drive one way to get them certified so refilling
  would mean 2 trips as shipping pressurized bottles is not allowed.

                JL222
JL222,

Can't you drain and mail them, then just drive the once to pick up full bottles? Just a thought anyhow.

.................................

Keep slugging away Doc and Rev, by my math we're 55 days out and counting.

cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on January 11, 2010, 11:33:30 PM
Yes, work the mind and prevent Alzheimer's.  Well, this is doing it!  A little research on foam leads me to not want use aluminum bottles (even with corrosion inhibitors).  Perhaps there was no corrosion inhibitor included in your mix.  Still stainless steel is better although steel looks OK.  Some info and links for the rest of you.  I pulled a few lines from documents to illustrate the confusion.  It will take further research on my part to decide what type of extinguisher to add to the one I already have.

From the ColdFire site. But rebutted in further documents.

Unlike old-fashioned AFFF foam, Cold Fire is completely non-corrosive and has an indefinite shelf life. You can put it in a 1.5 or 2.5 gallon extinguisher, or in the water tank of your crash truck and forget about it. It will never gel, crystalize, separate or corrode the metal. RDR offers even smaller 2,3 and 4 liter fire extinguishers with fixed nozzles. It can even be used in closed loop suppression/sprinkler systems.

http://www.fire-end.com/foam_types.htm

Fire fighting foams can be put into two very broad categories: Class A, and Class B. These categories correspond to the types of fuels that the foams are designed to be used on. This is very important! No matter what any salesman tells you Class A foam is not designed to put out class B fires. It looks white and bubbly, but they are chemically not compatible. Using Class A foam on flammable liquids (Class B) could extinguish the fire but lead to catastrophic results because of its inability to secure the explosive vapors. Class B fuels can be subdivided into two more subclasses: Hydrocarbons like gasoline, kerosene, and fuel oil will not mix with water; and polar solvents like alcohols, ketones, and ethers which will mix with water.

Class B foams can be divided into two general categories: synthetic based or protein based. Both types have advantages and disadvantages.

Synthetic foams are basically super soap with fire performance additives. They include high expansion foam, aqueous film forming foam (AFFF), and Alcohol Resistant aqueous film forming foam (AR-AFFF). In general synthetic foams flow more freely and provide quick knockdown with limited post fire security.

Protein foams use natural protein foamers instead of a synthetic soap, and similar fire performance components are added. Protein type foams include regular protein foam (P), fluoroprotein foam (FP), alcohol resistant fluoroprotein foam (AR-FP), film forming fluoroprotein (FFFP), and alcohol resistant film forming fluoroprotein (FFFP). In general, protein based foams spread slightly slower than synthetic, but produce a more heat resistant, longer lasting foam blanket.

http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35275

Protein-based foams can offer a significant advantage over detergent-based foams, however. Under some conditions, detergent foams make certain fuels easier to ignite.

Aqueous film forming foams (AFFF) are water-based and contain corrosive chemicals.
Suitable for use with carbon steel, fiberglass, polyethylene or stainless steel.
It is intended for use at a proportioning rate of 1% (1 part AFFF concentrate to 99 parts water) on Class B hydrocarbon type fuels such as gasoline, kerosene, diesel, etc. Chemguard 1% AFFF is not intended for use on fuels, which are polar solvent/water miscible such as alcohols, ketones, esters, etc.
Full stainless steel cylinder that resists corrosion.

Protein foams include regular protein foam (P), fluoroprotein foam (FP), alcohol resistant fluoroprotein foam (AR-FP), film forming fluoroprotein (FFFP), and alcohol-resistant film forming fluoroprotein (AR-FFFP).
FFFP foam on blended gasoline is your best choice because gasoline blended with MTBE prevents AFFF from forming a film under the bubbles.

http://safetyinfo.wordpress.com/fire-safety/classification-of-fire-extinguishers/water-foam-fire-extinguishers/

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 11, 2010, 11:51:42 PM
Nice work Wizard....I'm currently looking into a whole replacement system, and will be also seeking info from the supplier of the original system as to whether it is the same as what they supply now.....or whther these problems have come to light and changed their design/info/ingredients

Should this be another thread?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on January 12, 2010, 12:09:25 AM
Thanks.  Wizzard   huh?  Well I have been called many things, so thank you Dr.

Yes I think it should have a thread of it's own.  You make the first post with your discovery and add my research.  We will see where it goes.

Lets have a safe 2010.  Year of the Tiger by the way.

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 13, 2010, 08:05:48 AM
Well, you're from "Oz".....

Back to the issue at hand which is "Australian Bellytank" .As my byline says we run a 3.8litre Buick based V6, it was extensively redeveloped by Holden at the time they first used it.The very first model they used it in was the VN Commodore. For some reason they used different cranks in the manual and auto models( they are referred to as the "six bolt" crank), the crank boss was bigger in the manual....so, you can't bolt a flywheel to an "auto" motor. When we first built the car we used a VN motor and as you can imagine the auto's were more numerous by about ten to one.So, of course the motors we bought were "autos".Come time to organise a flywheel ( yeah and they want a left nut for them as you can imagine) , we got a cast iron one...yeah I know, but the motor was stock with a rev limiter on it. rather than buying one of the available crank boss adapters I had one made( hey, you all would too)...however because of concerns about the positioning of the counterweight I got the shop to drill another set of holes so the flywheel could be rotated through six positions, rather than the asymmetrical pattern that only allows it to be bolted on one way JUST IN CASE there was an issue with the balancing when it went on the auto crank.

Then, we got a one owner car from my brother which was the next model along ( the VP), by this point they had decided that that it would be a good idea to make the cranks the same...., great lot of help that was , this motor is known as the "eight bolt crank" so of course the flywheel we had didn't fit.That was the motor we ran at the 2009 DLRA meet with a home made dual throttle body manifold,nicely ported heads, heavy springs, some big home made headers and little else....I ran 161.4mph on the 150mph license run before we had to go home.

At last years meet Scott Taylor a local magazine writer and sometime drag racer offered us a VN motor ( if you're follwing ...this is us going BACK to a six bolt again) that he had raced on the quarter and written articles about the build on, he'd run it with a turbo and run it like a yo-yo for a few years.He loved that we were running a V6 and was , with many others surprised at how quick our car went with an essentially stock motor. He'd built a new motor for his( as it was known) "blown VN" but soon after retired the car and sold all the ancillaries off the motor, living in a rural area he couldn't get any takers for the bottom end because of the freight cost and offered it to us at a great price.This motor has 9.6:1 pistons, a deleted balance shaft and now a new cam (http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,862.800.html) we are using the same heads, manifold and exhaust. Today I bought a new cro-mo billet flywheel for it....problem being we need to fit it to the adapter, because of course it's a bloody auto motor. The adapter doesn't have the holes matched to the mount holes on the flywheel but rather the new set we had drilled so it could be rotated..........the new flywheel doesn't need a counterweight because the crank is balanced..........so now I have $750 worth of steel lying around and am nervously trying to work out whether we drill the extra holes in the new billet flywheel or drill another set of holes in the crank boss adapter( which already has six holes in it and not a lot of room left)

Here are the two six bolt flywheels , the cast with the extra holes ( on the larger diameter circle)drilled is on the right , the new billet job is on the left.

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P1131201.jpg)

next is the adapter , first is the crank side.....allen head screws go in from this side into the flywheel

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P1131202.jpg)

then the clutch side showing the holes for the crank bolts....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P1131203.jpg)

why am I bothering to show you this dumb tedium?
because it shows the tiny details and the infinite detail that you have to deal with just to get the car to where you want to be......and our car is basic, really really basic...to any of you who are watching, but don't race take it from me ........IT AINT ALL BEER AND SKITTLES some of it is a complete pain in the seat.

The Colonel starts bolting the motor together on the weekend. We'll see how go from there..............if we're lucky, and lets face it we have been so far, we'll do what we hope to and get to 200 this year......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 15, 2010, 12:34:28 AM
Any adapter is, by it's very nature, a weak link - I'd be cautious about swiss-cheesing it.

I see 33% more RPM in your future.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 16, 2010, 04:01:28 PM
Any adapter is, by it's very nature, a weak link - I'd be cautious about swiss-cheesing it.
I see 33% more RPM in your future.

Ya Know, when I read 33% there was  an immediate clench. I'm not the worlds greatest engineer, yea, I'm not Plymouth on an engineer's boots.....but at anything above 7500rpm I'm thinking we're booked in for some sort of catastrophic failure, full stop.I hear the reasoning about putting more holes in that piece...however they are to be neatly spaced where you can see some circular marks between the outer ring of holes in the picture at the bottom in my last post, and it's , well, the way we're doing it now. The whole shebang(should I have used that word?) will of course need to be treated with some respect through the changes but there is a lot of metal in that thing still.

The Colonel and I set it up yesterday after double checking the cast flywheel with the adapter bolted to it on the motor we, yeah OK the Colonel ,is building, the starter motor meshed ok so I took it home . I checked that the pcd pattern matched the flex plate pattern(remember we are using an "auto crank") and that the counterweight was in the same place(..I've made sillier mistakes) and then marked the center of the holes by using a drill press with a bit the exact size of the holes in the flywheel( this is of course all happening on the iron flywheel). It would be very difficult to maintain concentricity if I were to drill the moly flywheel to suit the adapter as neither of them have a center................... I did have one of those moments after i'd marked the holes ,  freaked out, "oh no, oh Subaru, you idiot"...then I took it off, lost my spot, then when I'd calmed down sufficiently to have another look I put the adapter on backwards as I tried to line the crank holes up.....so, when I got to the seventh position my brain started working..."six bolts, seven tries and it still don't fit , there MUST be something wrong"...... I took a few deep breaths, sat down , set the flywheel up on edge with two G clamps and concentrated, second position..it all lined up beautifully, the counterweight in the right place . Then I went to the case where I thought I'd put the set of crank bolts from the first motor we had...as if by magic there they were, things were starting to flow dude.........

Yesterday I also managed to source all the bits required to change the fire system lines to steel....speaking of engineers , BSP/BPT anyone?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: generatorshovel on January 16, 2010, 04:41:30 PM
BSP , BSPF, BSPT, 1/8" or 1/4" I have a Subaru load of taps, and sets if you need any Goggs, gimme a call, I'll satchel bag 'em to Melb for you.
Tiny


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 16, 2010, 04:51:59 PM
I'm sorted there T'fer, just need to find mine...it's out there ....somewhere....

Just about to get out there and get started , the urgency has finally hit home....woke up at 4am, couldn't get back to sleep apart from stits and farts...lay there going over all the stuff we've gotta do...that I wish we'd knocked over a while back :roll:

49 days


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 16, 2010, 04:54:34 PM
My worry - and I have only a rough idea of scale here - and I ALWAYS worry -

Look at the distances between your center holes and the new holes you'll need to drill in order to line all of this up, and then take into account the distance between the holes you're no longer using.  

Looking at the crank face of the adapter, your shortest distance between the holes on the inside bolt circle and the holes on the outside bolt circle are no less than the diameter of the center hole for the pilot bushing.  The only place you can put more holes on your new outside bolt circle is in closer proximity to the holes on the center bolt circle = more force through less mass, at a higher RPM.

Think about a wheel adapter.  They're always engineered to provide maximum material between bolt circles, even if you're changing from a 4 bolt to a 5 bolt.  And this will be turning at a faster RPM than your wheels.

RPM = fatigue.
Less mass = less strength.

That's my worry.  I am no engineer, either, but maybe someone out there is and is willing to pipe in on this.  How thick is this adapter?  Is whipping up a new one completely out of the picture?  

Above everything else, I want to see you and this car hitting 200 +, and without having to test to see if the flywheel shield is adequate to the task.



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 16, 2010, 09:56:36 PM
The adapter is 3/4 inch thick..... It's taken 4 hours, I Subaru you not ,to drill and tap the six holes and dress the whole thing, that included a quick trip to get some more linishing belts, the new holes are the ones with the arrows, as you can see they are a pattern rather than the other outside ring holes which are symmetrical.As you can see I put a much finer finish on it

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P1171205.jpg)

the good news is the Gods of Speed were in a good mood and it bolted up without the need for ANY coaxing, the bolts ran in by hand. I deburred everything so I could confidently stick my pinky in and turn it .

Now, to be candid I did very much think to myself that I may be better just getting another one made. I was in the blue corner , and I was in the red corner..... Like the battle I had over the fuel tank I paid special attention and respect to the possibility that the next one I made may have it's own problems, and cost money that should be spent elsewhere. Of course there was the obvious possibility that I stuffed it up and had to get to one made. In the big picture we could have had a whole one piece flywheel made( but it would have had a slip on ring gear rather than the machined teeth that are on the one I bought) but it may have cooked up it's own issues AND we would have had to get it balanced...as it is we have spent nearly $800, had I somehow got the measurements wrong( it has happened) we would have been stuffed.

As for the fuel tank the Colonel is half way through setting riv-nuts around the access plate we cut out of the top and cutting a gasket for same, then we'll stuff the foam into it and bolt it up again....

on we go...yea verily


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 16, 2010, 10:22:26 PM
Very nice work.  It's thicker than the previous pictures might lead one to believe.

Fears allayed, Captain Chrispy, standing down, over. :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 16, 2010, 11:32:56 PM
Well that's a wave of the wings Cap'n............Pushed on with other stuff, have cut the seat in order to fit the bigger fire bottle next to it, worked out how to fit a small bottle and it's attendant remote release at the back of the firewall and have also made provision for a camera mount on the top of the cab.........right now the 4am wake up is taking it's toll. Am currently trying to figure out a quick way to lengthen the brake pedal , the list is getting shorter. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on January 16, 2010, 11:36:32 PM
they are around here somewhere ----in red neck is---- "thys round here summers"   :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 17, 2010, 01:19:20 AM
they are around here somewhere ----in red neck is---- "thys round here summers"   :cheers:
funny yer should mintion thayte cuzzin Bill, I jiss dun sum WITTLIN!!!!

We miscalculated a little with the frame during our build and there is a frame bar that runs across what should be the front of the seat but it turnmed out that I ended up with my coccyx resting on it and at the end of Speedweek I was real sore....here it is with the floor plate in place, the flat section to the right of the aluminium has a half inch thick neoprene pad that is supposed to be the seat squab, my backside tended to end up on the curved section  in the middle of the shot....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P1171207.jpg)

here is the bar itself, the groin belt mount are through it...., the belts mount to the left of the bar

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P1171206.jpg)

here I have sectioned a piece out of the top and then welded in some 3/16 flat, we'll modify the floor plate as well next weekend.

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P1171208.jpg)

I also lengthened the brake pedal by an inch and a half Colonel, now we'll be able to lock 'em up and flat spot the tyres.. :roll: :roll: :roll:

All in all it's been a good day.





Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 17, 2010, 01:22:18 AM
Really critical parts like connecting rod bolts are installed new and tightened down once.  They are not loosened and retightened a second or third time.  Over the years I have seen other critical bolts treated in the same manner.  "One use bolts" we call them.  It may be a good idea to use the old bolts to check and make sure the adapter fits and use a set of new good quality bolts to install it.

Imbalance can be a problem with homemade items that rotate very fast.  It is caused by parts that are out of true (not concentric), a weight imbalance, or both.  If available, it is a good idea to run the tank on a dyno to make sure everything will hold together and not shake apart.

If you like your new setup, it is worth it to have a new flywheel made and balanced after this year's Gairdner runs.  Shift slow and easy.    


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 17, 2010, 03:57:27 AM
Really critical parts like connecting rod bolts are installed new and tightened down once.  They are not loosened and retightened a second or third time.  Over the years I have seen other critical bolts treated in the same manner.  "One use bolts" we call them.  It may be a good idea to use the old bolts to check and make sure the adapter fits and use a set of new good quality bolts to install it.

Imbalance can be a problem with homemade items that rotate very fast.  It is caused by parts that are out of true (not concentric), a weight imbalance, or both.  If available, it is a good idea to run the tank on a dyno to make sure everything will hold together and not shake apart.

If you like your new setup, it is worth it to have a new flywheel made and balanced after this year's Gairdner runs.  Shift slow and easy.    
Absolutely, on the flywheel bolts, they'll be unused items.The ones I mentioned are new 8.8 allen heads that have the knurling turned off and are a very close fit in the adapter so they are a flush fit.we never used the six bolt motor we first had.

The adapter was made by a gear shop specializing in well, gears, if you read the detail, it was made so as to be able to be rotated, so a symmetrical bolt pattern was put into it and a new set of holes drilled in the flywheel. I didn't want to drill the cro-moly flywheel I have just bought but used the old one as a template...anything can happen of course but I'm confident it will be balanced.

We'll be moving to a different motor next year so whatever happens it will be a different set-up.

Tonight I saw a friend who has an engine tuner based next to his factory who has an engine dyno , he's seen video of the tank and wants to help with our mapping and EMS.

....that's gonna be handy :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on January 17, 2010, 09:36:25 AM
Absolutely, on the flywheel bolts, they'll be unused items.

The adapter was made by a gear shop specializing in well, gears...

Tonight I saw a friend who has an engine tuner based next to his factory who has an engine dyno , he's seen video of the tank and wants to help with our mapping and EMS.

Wow!  Stars seem to be aligning near the Southern Cross!   :-D

I am practicing my 200 mph dance so as to be looking smart when the celebration commences.

I love the comments everyone.  You are not only helping the tank boys here.  :cheers:

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 17, 2010, 10:42:18 AM
Back in the mid-60's my dad was the sales manager for Premier Industries - a firm that made "Supertanium" fasteners -- which were marked and sold as "8-line" bolts and such.  It was great for me as a teen - because Premier had a garage/shop at Indianapolis - to supply fasteners to the racers -- so Dad and I would get garage passes for the time trials.  We went every year for a while -- got to see Andy Granatelli  helping start up the Novi, for instance, and saw the turbine car run and on and on.

But that's not why I'm writing this.  Dad taught me that Premier's guys had researched and learned about fatigue of fasteners -- that after 4 or 5 uses, properly torqued, they would have lost up to 80% of original strength due to stretching.  So that's why you should carefully consider reusing stuff that's absolutely critical.

By the way -- Dad also got pretty much unlimited free samples of the Supertanium bits and pieces -- so when I'd rebuild the Briggs and Stratton mower, for instance, I'd let him know what sizes I needed -- and viola, great stuff for free.  I remember rebuilding the engine in the '58 Olds with Supertanium.  One time a while later we had the hood up at a gas station and the mechanic darn near swallowed his chew when he saw those fancy nuts and bolts throughout the engine.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: manta22 on January 17, 2010, 12:23:19 PM
That was one lawn mower that wasn't going to come apart, Jon!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 17, 2010, 01:01:00 PM
Rolled threads give a bit of added strength as compared to cut threads  Provided there is enough room around the bolt heads, the flanged hex head bolts work well for this application, and I use them where I can.  Also, an unthreaded shank except for the portion in the female threads works best, based on my experience.

You'all seem to be on track and doing well.  Running the belly tank is an accomplishment regardless of the speed.  That setup is completely home built using "applied engineering."  Have the best of luck.    


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 17, 2010, 01:34:44 PM
Just so you know, Doctor - we ARE paying attention in class . . .

. . . had to take the flywheel off to get it onto the engine stand...gee those flywheel bolts were kind of loose :?

Might want to add "double check torque settings on new flywheel and adapter" to the chalk board.



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 17, 2010, 03:32:07 PM
Rolled threads give a bit of added strength as compared to cut threads  Provided there is enough room around the bolt heads, the flanged hex head bolts work well for this application, and I use them where I can.  Also, an unthreaded shank except for the portion in the female threads works best, based on my experience.

You'all seem to be on track and doing well.  Running the belly tank is an accomplishment regardless of the speed.  That setup is completely home built using "applied engineering."  Have the best of luck.    

Carroll Smith's great quote..."never, EVER, make a bolt" is pertinent here...I don't know it word for word but I have read his chapter "Why Things Break" lots of times.The strength of cut threads doesn't come anywhere near that of rolled threads due to the grain.

 

Funny thing , when we got the eight bolt flywheel we used at last years meet it came with a set of factory bolts ,I turned the head off one of them at less than half the recommended torque setting, and yes I had run a tap through the crank holes just to make sure they weren't crudded up.It just came off like a cheap garden variety  bolt head , when I undid the others and lifted the flywheel off I could wind the rest of it out with my fingers. The people we got the flywheel from insisted they had to be used and charged no small sum for them, it was a worry that one was so defective.....



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 20, 2010, 12:12:12 AM
Hey it's all go go go here at The spirit of Sunshine Central.........

here is a recent email exchange between the brains trust ....we have decided to enter the car in "streamliner class" as well this year , just by adding some simple guards to the rear wheels....the most recent exponent of this was I think the Old Crow tank. There are few streamliner records here, there is a E/BGS, EBFS build on the go that I think will be ready for 2011, but not much else...all the other stuff has been in A or AA.

Strap yourselves in , my only regret is I can't draw a comic strip to go with this.......

Rev wrote:
I have found some rear guards perfect for our bellytank to streamliner
mod.:
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/Morrisguards.jpg)

We'll put a steel flat face on the inside to attach to the drums or an
axle tab.

 Close the outside arc with a flat piece.
 
 Hell we could even make the brake lights and indicators functional!
  Will be more slipstreamed, better lookin, quicker to build and in more
keeping with the car than some trailer style.

I am bidding on them.

dik


Doc wrote:
Have you read the stuff I did yesterday?....hopefully we can sort the
bum-torture sitch out , I'm getting the fuel pump organised and also
the rest of the fire system stuff.

We're getting there.

also I met an old mate last night who has a business neighbour who is
a tuner and has a dyno. He's keen to help us with our mapping.

DrG


The Rev wrote:
I thought we discussed the seat and you said that it was fine with the
blue rubber insert, so I spent a little time cleaning it up and
ticked it off the list...

Now its back on the list?

Dyno sounds interesting, we can save money by blowing up the motor
here instead of there.

d

Doc wrote:

Now that was funny, I had thought about that possibility, but not
that it would save us money.
But , your majesty, I've a cunning plan....................

We get the new motor dyno'd, and stick it in the car, but we also take
the VP bottom end that we used last year. We are up to parachute
passes, then we are able( with the front runners)to run to or about
200.At that point we are in destructo territory, if we get
there.....or if it does it twice.....

If we organise the guards so we can run in streamliner class we need
to go up through the licensing passes....just once, not each driver.

The VP motor was pretty much out of huff at 160.....it might do 175
with the limiter off.

So, with the new(VN) motor in we do the parachute passes, we each go
for 200.

If the motor hangs together we put the guards on, do 125, 150 , 175
and if it's STILL hanging together try for 200 , alternate drives.

If the motor DOESN'T hang together we put the VP in it , at whatever
point of the above plan we get to and start at the licensing passes
for Streamliner.

Yeah I hear you, we only got four passes last year , but there's two
tracks this year........... and to quote Ben "next year I'm gonna have
a plan!"....

You know it makes sense.


The Rev wrote:
Not only does it make sense, I had already thought about that.
Also could pop the Colonel in for the first drive...

Oh, by the way, we are now the owners of two Morris Minor
guards. Anyone going to Wendouree soon?

Reverend H+
 
ps we had 4 passes in the first year after two years no racing in a
week half washed out with one track, if we can manage 2 a day that's
the eight passes required for 3x200mph by Thursday.
Don't forget we can do the two fuel classes for streamliner too so the
Spirit can have 4 Australian landspeed records to her name.


Doc wrote:
get him to freight the guards , it's $25 gas at least for me to get
 them...and three hours I haven't really got, probably only 45 bucks ,
or ask if he has Couriers Please and get 'em sent to Grumm

The Colonel wrote:

Don't send em to me
 I've got enough scrap metal lying around at work
 Unfortunately I have to work on saTURDay, so while I am there I am
 hoping to do the cam dial on the engine and then maybe if i get time i
 will assemble it
 Speaking of cams, my bank account details are still the same.
 And yes I would drive it, if i could work the stupid clutch pedal, or
 perhaps even get in or out of the thing
I would only have to buy a fire suit, and another helmet, which reminds
 me, you should check with Bob if your helmet is still legal
 Which gets me back to that thread on dlra. Who designed this rubbish anyway
 G
 

Doc wrote:

clutch?....find us one of those miniature remote boosters and I'll put it in.

Dunno what everyone’s movements are for the weekend but the meeting is on at Norm's I don't want to go but we have to enter as it is the last day before late fees,.I will have the bundy tube and the fittings to do the fire system, am finding out about filliing the empty cylinder and getting them all checked this week, to be done next week.I did the cut on the seat for the other cylinder and fitted the pinchweld to the edges. I drilled holed for the Ubolt on thefirst one , haven't sorted the second one but I think we may need to double up some of the stainless hose clamps cause we don't have enough big ones.......

Colonel can you pocket the seat catch you have been talking about so we can get that at least as a temp measure on the chute doors.
 
I bought some 1.2.mm plate steel yesterday to use for the streamlinerguards, did you ask the guy about freight Dik?

Rev wrote:
He is going to deliver them to your door personally. He is coming down this weekend to see the Hot Rod show and so will be passing by on ballarat Road.
 
The guards are a bitwedge shaped so we may need to put a top to them as well to get the inner side parallel but no biggy, cardboard will save the day.
 
We'll do it nice and strong then bog the curve on top to make it all nice.
 
d


Doc wrote:

That's good, in light of "The guards are a bit wedge shaped so we may need to put a top to them as well to get the inner side parallel but no biggy, cardboard will save the day.We'll do it nice and strong then bog the curve on top to make it all nice
" , trust me.........this is a one pass job , there will be no fore-lock tugging.....if it's too hard we go with the Dolan interpretation and just make an "in spirit only" version and wait til when we have time to burn to get these nice cowls all sweet.....................

Rev wrote:
I think my forelock has been tugged off...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 20, 2010, 12:27:51 AM
Like you guys, I use a lot of allen bolts and I have loosening problems, too.  I think the high stresses under the allen bolt head are distorting the metal underneath and the bolt loosens.  A pix of flanged bolts are attached.  The shoulder area is a lot bigger and there are lower stresses on the underlying metal.  They are working better for me than allen bolts or allen bolts with washers.  No loosening.

The drawbacks are the size of the hole that is needed to countersink them and they are expensive.  I buy them from Triumph since I do not know any other sources.  That's all I know or have to say about bolts. 

Put the fenders on the tank before you leave.  If they do not fall off on that rough road in to the lake they will probably hang on through any race.


  


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 20, 2010, 12:43:24 AM
Like you guys, I use a lot of allen bolts and I have loosening problems, too.  I think the high stresses under the allen bolt head are distorting the metal underneath and the bolt loosens.

If I could find a shouldered bolt like that one pictured with a flange that fitted, I'd be on it like a monkey on a biscuit....problem is that most of those things are special purpose and it's usually a case of finding one and designing around it................


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 20, 2010, 01:32:14 AM
". . . the pinnacle of the straightaway racer's art" now seems to include Morris Minor fenders.

God help me, I love this sport.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on January 20, 2010, 01:38:33 AM
Don't forget the to make room for the fan
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 23, 2010, 05:24:17 PM
Got some work done on the fire system yesterday.Bending 1/4 bundy tube around the tight confines of the tank's innards is time consuming work, trust me. With the aluminium lines it was pretty simple, with the steel it almost all has to be done on the little line bender....

Got word from the Colonel yesterday that he'd dialled the cam  and that "specs are as advertised".......at that moment I had my head under the hood of a VW attempting to find why the dashlight stopped working after I installed a stereo in it ..........can't get enough of that stuff.

During the week I got the new fuel pump and entered the car for this year.

Now I better get out there and get on with it. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 24, 2010, 07:07:21 AM
I'm sitting on a chair beside the tank with the double flaring kit and a little tube cutter. Anyway I'm having a chuckle to myself about a list of instructions as to how to use the tools....

1./Measure the EXACT length of tube, mark.
2./Clamp the cutting tool over the mark turning and tightening until cut.
3./Clamp tube into anvil, leave 3/16 proud.
4./Place die in tube and wind clamp down to form first flare.
5./Remove die and wind clamp down to form second flare and remove clamps.
...
6./ cut off flare, because you haven't put the line nut on :roll:...now it's too short?
7./ Repeat......

so I'm laughing to myself, I look down ....sure enough I've done it for the second time in five......

I got I few things done today ,the fire system is all tied up...I tidied up the clutch and brake lines too, hid them a bit better, housekeeping stuff.Then I started on the canopy hinge, haven't really got any concrete ideas what I'm going to do yet but it needs to be firmed up and still be so the pins can be pulled.



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 24, 2010, 07:53:28 PM
6./ cut off flare, because you haven't put the line nut on :roll:...now it's too short?
7./ Repeat......
I have a very similar approach to repairing microphone and guitar cables.

But you can't screw up if you aren't working :cheers:.   



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Peter Jack on January 24, 2010, 07:57:43 PM
A lot of people put loops in the line supposedly to help fight cracking from vibration. I think you may have discovered the real reason for those loops. :evil: :evil: :-D

Pete


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 24, 2010, 11:25:32 PM
A lot of people put loops in the line supposedly to help fight cracking from vibration. I think you may have discovered the real reason for those loops. :evil: :evil: :-D

Pete

I was polite!.....as with mains leads, mic leads, brake lines, all of them, there's also the possibility of putting the wrong type on, or forbid, the wrong way round..........or , as I said, just leaving it off, just for the hell of it..... :roll:Canon leads are the worst

Today I did a test firing of sorts of the fire system, just water and with about 120psi of air in it rather than the recommended 190, I probably had too much water in it too, which would reduce the amount of air ......as it was the dispersion wasn't too bad...and although obviously the engine bay was empty it went everywhere...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 27, 2010, 12:57:36 AM
Hmmm . . .

That absolute stillness and quiet we're hearing on line must be the sound of a thrash in progress.

Go, Sunshine! :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on January 28, 2010, 05:18:57 PM
Hmmm . . .

That absolute stillness and quiet we're hearing on line must be the sound of a thrash in progress.

Go, Sunshine! :cheers:

Methinks you're right.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 28, 2010, 07:49:24 PM
......well kind of, haven't laid a finger on it since the weekend but in my mind we're nearly there...all the individual tasks and items are floating around in space(yeah, in my head) and the sequencing of it is coming together.....

As it stands there are some imperatives.....the chute doors have been debated ,at this point we are probably just going to use a sturdier version of the catch we already have, we need to finish the fuel tank mods and we have to improve the canopy hinge. We have to get the motor back together and do a trial reassemble if we have time we'd like to dyno the new motor...if we have time. Speaking of which , if we have time there's a bunch of other stuff we'd like to do...methinks that'll be waitingThis year looks like it'll be a good one for tanks with at least five looking like starters


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 28, 2010, 10:34:17 PM
here's the poster for this year's meet, it will of course be available as a T-shirt as well, pride of place is Norm and Oggies '34 which some of you may have seen at Bonneville this year.....if you look closely you may well notice something else....

I will once again be taking orders for shirts , I expect they will be available in women's sizes as well.

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/dlra2/2010/speedweek2010.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rchop on January 28, 2010, 10:54:49 PM
hmmmm, the tank in the middle looks familiar  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 28, 2010, 11:29:08 PM
.....if you look closely you may well notice something else....

Of course - I can't remember their names, but I think I dated those girls . . .




Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on January 28, 2010, 11:42:14 PM
they have red hair... nature's warning sign.



Stoked to be on the poster.
Now we have a reason to not repaint the car too!

rH+
Speed Deacon


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 28, 2010, 11:47:36 PM
Will the shirt include velcro tabs for the Morris Minor fenders?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 29, 2010, 12:42:59 AM
Fender?, did someone say Fender.....I've got few of those... I lie ,it's more than a few..............

OK my answers to the BIG four questions in life .....its
1./ Stones
2./Keith
3./ Fender
4./Telecaster

have a good day :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: landsendlynda on January 29, 2010, 12:45:44 AM
Beautiful, Dr. Goggles, just Beeutiful!!

Lynda



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 29, 2010, 12:49:29 PM
Speaking of shirts, Dr. G - you never got back to me afterr I reported that I do have both M and L Salt Talks '09 shirts still available.  Want one or two (or maybe more)?  Lemme know.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Glen on January 29, 2010, 01:06:22 PM
Cool Poster :-D
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: gearheadeh on January 29, 2010, 02:55:27 PM
Fender?, did someone say Fender.....I've got few of those... I lie ,it's more than a few..............

OK my answers to the BIG four questions in life .....its
1./ Stones
2./Keith
3./ Fender
4./Telecaster

have a good day :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

How does it go..... a Rolling Stone gathers no moss?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on January 29, 2010, 06:07:15 PM
Fender?, did someone say Fender.....I've got few of those... I lie ,it's more than a few..............

OK my answers to the BIG four questions in life .....its
1./ Stones
2./Keith
3./ Fender
4./Telecaster

have a good day :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

If you start me up, I'll never stop . . . :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 04, 2010, 08:05:11 PM
"I wasn't looking too good but I was feeling real well "

now, off the stones and back to the Tank. We had /have an issue with the new camshaft hjaving a smaller base circle than the former and thus the push-rods are too short.Rather than machine the rocker pivots we have elected to buy longer rods.This was decided because if we machine the rocker pivots we can only use those heads with that cam. The cam grinder said that the average amount to take off is 55 thou . we have decided to buy longer push-rods . The Cam grinder seemed to think we'd be okay....I am concerned about whether we may have too much pre-load on the lifters?...We've done some rough sums and aimed for the closest rod length we can get, no time for customs ones....so , here's the question.

I was wondering whether when dealing with this problem anyone has shimmed the rocker pivots?

Are we asking for it?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 04, 2010, 08:15:39 PM
We had to shim one last year between the stand and the head because we didn't discover we had one valve too long untill after the heads were back on and we didn't have time to pull it.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: bvillercr on February 04, 2010, 08:26:45 PM
We had the same problem when we built our new A motor, except our cam was bigger in diameter so it made our push rods too long.  Good luck at speedweek down under. :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 04, 2010, 09:50:43 PM
Worm can opened :evil:
G
And worms EVERYWHERE!.

Is an adjustable push rod a possibility?  You'd be able to dial it right in and maintain correct rocker geometry and lifter preload without undue stress on the pushrod socket, and less side loading on the valve stem.

They would also give you more options for next year, should you decide to skim the head.

I know, it sure is easy to spend your money . . .


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 04, 2010, 10:46:12 PM
Been searching on the topic and it seems that the feeling is that adjustable rods are for motors that aren't going to trouble the tacho, or repairs. They're too heavy is the word and that means they are more prone to causing float.

Thankfully the original rods are in the range of SBC rods and so it was easy to find the length we needed .


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 05, 2010, 02:09:47 AM
Did some good work on the weekend, strengthened the canopy hinge; something we mucked around a bit with previously to have a release mechanism of the canopy at the hinge if the car was upside down which weakened the whole link in the first place.

Now we have decided if the car is upside down we can peel back the body work to get to the hinge if needs be, or the canopy might indeed be off anyway. (!)

We made the seat more comfortable by a factor of three by removing a piece that met right at the coccyx and by making a lumber support piece to fill in that gap in your lower back. Less stress in the cockpit = good.

Continued making the canopy trim. As discussed elsewhere this is important in completing the look of the car as it is the car's "face" and we want it suitably hungry for speed.

Other than that news is the wife and baby aren't coming which is a big loss, she loved it last time and I want to introduce the youngster to the lake, but simply cannot afford it to the level of comfort they'll need if it gets really hot.

So another men's meet it will be.


rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 05, 2010, 10:56:09 AM
Comfort, comfort,  :?  there is no comfort in Salt Flat Racing  :evil:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on February 05, 2010, 11:22:08 AM
Doc, don't worry too much about the canopy, they come off as soon as the car turns sideways so it will not be an escape issue. 

Be careful out there, do you have a way to get the chute out quickly?  without removing your hands from the wheel?  it has been such a long thread that I don't remember.  If not, practice the move a lot, so the first sign of loss of control you instinctively throw the laundry. 

Can't wait to see your results.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 05, 2010, 03:16:06 PM
Comfort, comfort,  :?  there is no comfort in Salt Flat Racing  :evil:

well, comfort may not be the right word for it.Last year I would have been less uncomfortable if I'd been kicked up the fundamental by a horse every five minutes. A slight miscalculation, OK a complete redesign of the way the seat worked had my coccyx sitting on a cross bar, instead of on the padding that finished NEXT to it....... :oops:

Doc, don't worry too much about the canopy, they come off as soon as the car turns sideways so it will not be an escape issue. 

Be careful out there, do you have a way to get the chute out quickly?  without removing your hands from the wheel?  it has been such a long thread that I don't remember.  If not, practice the move a lot, so the first sign of loss of control you instinctively throw the laundry. 

I'm not so sure about the canopy blowing off, when we sorted the pivots on the hinge it went from ..kind of rickety to SNAP!....it has a bit of weight to it and  a station wagon tailgate catch on either side and it seems to catch better , close tighter and be a little more reluctant to pop than it did.
The parachute release is on the steering wheel , a momentary button right under your thumb.At the moment there is no fail-safe for the solenoid which would be as simple as a cable that can be yanked if the solenoid don't do the do.

With a bit of luck we might have the motor buttoned up today.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on February 05, 2010, 10:57:46 PM

I'm not so sure about the canopy blowing off, when we sorted the pivots on the hinge it went from ..kind of rickety to SNAP!....it has a bit of weight to it and  a station wagon tailgate catch on either side and it seems to catch better , close tighter and be a little more reluctant to pop than it did.
The parachute release is on the steering wheel , a momentary button right under your thumb.At the moment there is no fail-safe for the solenoid which would be as simple as a cable that can be yanked if the solenoid don't do the do.

With a bit of luck we might have the motor buttoned up today.

Doc, Hope you never find out what a 200 MPH wind from the side might do to your canopy or its hinges.  The chute on a button was the best modification we ever did, has saved our bacon 4 times.  (finally figured out what was making it want to swap ends) 
Keep up the good work, you will be racing in less than a month if I have it right.   :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 06, 2010, 03:56:43 AM
yeah , a month. I got the fuel tank from the Colonel today to finish off the mods, had to drill the holes to mount the top plate, just sent him a text to tell him that I stuffed up and got the pattern flipped :oops: :roll: :evil: :-o :?.......worst case I'll weld the holes I drilled and start again but it should be easier than that.....good news is during the course of the day I whacked my left thumb and my right index finger.....


If anyone needs an idiot , don't hesitate to call , I'M RIGHT HERE........ :oops:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 06, 2010, 09:35:09 AM
.....good news is during the course of the day I whacked my left thumb and my right index finger.....

Something like this?
(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/milwaukeemidget/Midget%20Build/DSCN3544.jpg)
Makes sweet-pickin' kinda tough, tele-brother . . .

You're NOT an idiot - you're just focused on the task at hand.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on February 06, 2010, 07:09:39 PM
or perhaps the hands at task?

Keep going Doc, you're got a month and eight fingers to go!

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 07, 2010, 06:00:02 PM
or perhaps the hands at task?
Keep going Doc, you're got a month and eight fingers to go!
Cheers,
Rob

Fortunately when I got up yesterday the thumb was better , not worse as I'd feared, it's still sort of stiff......It was the moment when I thought ..."you should clamp that piece down while you're drilling it", about five seconds later , as I was drilling the last hole.....BAM!

Then I walk over to the bench grinder with the same piece...." don't put aluminium on the grinder , it always clags the stone, if it doesn't bite first..."......about one second into that venture it grabbed and smacked my index finger onto the rest.....

dunno if I can afford to fly to Stockholm to collect the Nobel Prize for those this year but I'll gladly accept it. :roll:

Yesterday we got a lot of stuff ticked off. We replaced the catch on the 'chute doors. We used a seat catch from a scooter, last years was as the Colonel said "as cheap as they come", we got a better made one and with a little fettling it seems to work much better than before.

The fuel tank access panel is finished and has a new breather. we also had a bit of a fiddle with the mount for the tank as it wasn't perfectly centered and we couldn't put the cover piece in the bodywork AND be able to undo the cap on the tank, now we can. This doesn't seem like a big deal but we had the original filler port from the tank which is a big brass flat cap with the classic old aero style ring , just like a real tuner car!...so anyway rather than the big hole above the fuel filler that we had last year we'll have the original filler port from the Canberra fuel tank.

We finished the fire system mods, and I have the cylinders with me at work so I can get them tested ....we're nearly at the stage where we can do a proper assembly and get ready to go.

25 days to go.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 07, 2010, 07:45:39 PM
Dr. G, I'll make you a deal.  You tell me what the word "fettle" means - although I assume it's similar to the American "mess with" or f**k around with" -- and I'll acknowledge that you're in the middle of a "thrash".  Sounds great -- getting things done, not folding under the pressure.  Best to you, as we all wish every day.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 07, 2010, 08:51:45 PM
Na , that ones from the dictionary slim, not the toilet wall,

transitive verb fettled -·tled, fettling -·tling

1.Dialectal to put in order or readiness; arrange


A former boss would use it in an "airey" way when talking to customers about a part that wasn't 100%......" look , they're hard to get now and I'm sure with a little fettling it'll do the job......."

read, " That's nearly stuffed that part, pay me for it and when you bring it back neither of us will be able to tell the difference between the damage done before and after you bought it , so I won't give you your money back....."

 :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 07, 2010, 10:17:30 PM
When I arrived on Sunday the doc had already welded up and redrilled the holes for the petrol tank (as he had had the template back to front) and all that was required was to tidy it up. Dr G said that with so many bolt heads on it that it looked, "You know...".

I said "...English?" referring to the tendency of UK engineers to use 18 bolts when 4 well placed ones would do, and he said, "No, it looks kinda gay".

So I made sure that I polished the lid up really well because the last thing is that we want anything to look English...

Photo please Dr G!!

Reverend H+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 07, 2010, 10:33:31 PM
So I made sure that I polished the lid up really well because the last thing is that we want anything to look English...

So you're worried about looking English, yet you propose to parade around in these Pommy Pantaloons? :-D

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/Morrisguards.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 08, 2010, 12:06:52 AM
So I made sure that I polished the lid up really well because the last thing is that we want anything to look English...

So you're worried about looking English, yet you propose to parade around in these Pommy Pantaloons? :-D

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Jarman-Stewart/Morrisguards.jpg)

Speaking of Pommy Loons....nah , the most we'll muster this year are real "cheater guards"....just a piece that protrudes beyond the edge of the tyre so we can run in streamliner class ......

as you were men. :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 08, 2010, 03:44:28 AM
captain chrispy,

these pantaloons are what we call "hipster irony".

For those who don't know the term irony:

i⋅ro⋅ny1  /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-]  Show IPA
–noun, plural -nies. 1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend. 
2. Literature. a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
b. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, or theme
 
In other words, it's like wearing a Michael Bolton Tee shirt to a Neil Young concert.

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 08, 2010, 06:57:13 PM
Got it - like being 6'5", and driving a Midget.  :wink:

Must be the "Hipster" aspect I need to brush up on.  Probably be second nature to me if I was . . .

you know . . .

English.

 :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 08, 2010, 09:02:57 PM
I trust your judgement Chris, trust me.

Now on the subject of the fuel tank.....below is a shot of the tank before I put in the last layer of foam. The hole cut in the top has Riv-nuts around it, the partition you can see is to prevent the return line ( seen in the upperleft corner)from aerating the contents , as a reminder we put the foam in the tank because we believed that cavitation has wrecked our fuel pump.

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P2071212.jpg)

The next shot is the tank in situ with the new top and filler in place , as you can see once all the fasteners are in place it's gonna look like one of those studded Harley panniers  :roll: , It wasn't so long ago the Rev had a handlebar moustache....what next? a set of chaps over the flame suit?

speaking of flames the extinguisher cylinders were collected today for testing and refilling , another thing off the list, another note out the window.

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P2071217.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Geo on February 08, 2010, 10:02:07 PM
Keep after it boys!   :cheers:

On the fuel tank, just so I gets it right...  The return enters the fuel container (the tank is the car) filling up the area above the baffle (partition) and then the liquid waterfalls into the main part of the container while the gas (vapor) flows near the top, yes?  The pickup for the pump is next to the bottom, yes again?

What did you find out on the fire system fluid mix?

Geo


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 08, 2010, 10:59:58 PM
Correct on all counts there(ahhhh the Count, "I laaaarrrrv to Count!")...... baffle causes return line to run down side of cell, pick up is at bottom, breatherline is visible in shot, goes via NRV to breather line.

Have spoken to Fire system cert' guy who says "YES, empty the system and store the AFFF in a plastic airtight container and return it with the cylinders next year to be repackaged"...

DO NOT STORE THE CYLINDERS FULL, UNLESS THEY ARE STAINLESS. He showed me a steel cylinder that seriously looked brand new that was from  a 20 year old industrial automated system, he had just re-installed it and five minutes later heard a hissing noise only to find it had a pin-hole( yes, steel)....as he pointed out this system needs to function 24/7.....we need ours for a week a year....when we don't need it it is just sitting there corroding so it might as well be emptied..........

This way they'll last for a long time. Like wise the foam we put in the fueltank we were told would last about twelve months of constant fuel exposure, so I figure if we wash it with alcohol after each event we should get a few years out of it.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: generatorshovel on February 08, 2010, 11:21:40 PM
"I figure if we wash it with alcohol after each event we should get a few years out of it."

Your gonna P i $ $ in it doc?

Alcohol does strange things to most everything and everybody it comes in contact with mate, Iv'e had it in my fuel line (rubber) for 1/2 hour before draining to do a jet change,,and it has changed colour from clear, to something resembling wd40,,,,,,,,,,,
Tiny (in OZ)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on February 09, 2010, 08:58:36 AM
Doc, we use fuel safe foam, been in the tank for 15 years or so.  We drain it when we get back, mix a little Marvel Mystery Oil with the residual gas in the bottom of the tank and run the pumps to lube them till next year.  Put a good screen filter before your FI pump, the foam gives up a few little pieces when it is new.  (big enough to clog a N20 gas jet...  :| don't a$k how I know)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 09, 2010, 03:56:10 PM
Good advice Stainless,thanks,and no I won't ask.Why did you guys put foam in? same reason, cavitation?

And no Tiny I didn't mean racing methanol

22 days to go :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on February 09, 2010, 06:32:42 PM
Doc, I had to order pushrods for an engine, I used an adjustable "checking" pushrod to determine length (it had a piece of all thread in one section and a nut welded to the other, with a jam nut).

Is it that you don't have time for different pushrods to get there, or you don't have time for someone to custom make them?

Good luck either way.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 09, 2010, 06:47:14 PM
We're pretty sure that we have the right length now, the problem was whether to machine the rocker pivots or get longer push-rods, we went with the longer rods.......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 10, 2010, 10:01:23 PM
Just went and saw the Colonel and delivered another sump and oil pickup for the motor build....the sump on the motor being built has a drain back spigot for the turbo oiler that was previously on the motor, the replacement he had had had( c'mon slim did you like that, 3 in a row!) a mod to the lower front section so the pickup would fit properly.....When I got there he told me that although there was no cam chain tensioner on the short when we got it, he knew where it was.... It was in the sump in it's constituent parts :roll:....the motor has revved hard...That said there was no apparent impact damage on the top of the pistons when we got it so even if th cam chain had let go it doesn't seem like anything too terrible happened, who knows............. :? :?

while I was in the workshop there was a crate there that contained a 180hp 1000cc V4 that was due to be exchanged in a warranty program from one of the large Italian manufacturers starting with A.. gee would it ever be a good powerplant for a liner.......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 10, 2010, 10:33:28 PM
There was a sign writer painting the sign for the Coach and Horses pub. Apparently he spread the words too far apart for the owner who said to him, "There is too large a gap between Coach and and and and and and Horses."

 :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 11, 2010, 05:12:06 PM
There was a sign writer painting the sign for the Coach and Horses pub. Apparently he spread the words too far apart for the owner who said to him, "There is too large a gap between Coach and and and and and and Horses."

 :mrgreen:

That's too many ands , even to make light work....................




yeah I know. :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on February 11, 2010, 08:32:20 PM
while I was in the workshop there was a crate there that contained a 180hp 1000cc V4 that was due to be exchanged in a warranty program from one of the large Italian manufacturers starting with A.. gee would it ever be a good powerplant for a liner.......

They're a pretty small package. And complete with an ECU

I am just trying to work out how to get one


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 14, 2010, 10:08:40 PM
Went to the Colonels workshop and collected the new motor on Saturday, few last minute things to do, did a compression check that showed everything between 170 and 195psi , stuck it in the trailer ....moments earlier I'd thought after we topped the oil "I should ask him if he's tightened the sump plug"...what I should have done was checked the sump plug...as we slid it on the deck of the trailer it neatly undid the plug  :roll:....few kilos of kitty litter there. Took it to my place and bolted up the flywheel and clutch and then slotted it in so it was at least sitting on the mounts.

Didn't feel too well yesterday, sore throat, headache......started gargling a bit of iodine, had some codeine, woke up this morning and coughed up an alien life form....so I took the day off and finished the motor fit.....I'd rather be at home by myself than sitting at a desk with everyone looking at me like I was carrying live ordinance...

18 days.............


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 15, 2010, 10:15:03 AM
Unh, Dr. G, while it's known widely here on the Forum that you're in a foreign country whre the rules are far different from those of the U S of A -- what "medicines" you've mentioned are enough to get the website shut down, all of us investigated as potential drug-smuggling terrorists, and a slap from Grandma that thinks cod liver oil is enough for any ailments.

Iodine AND codeine?  Whoa -- must make for a fun trip. . .


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 15, 2010, 10:20:56 AM
you should have stuck with the leagal drug of choice idione and "Black Jack" :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 15, 2010, 03:54:38 PM
..the Iodine is "Betadine" antiseptic......to quote a certain movie it " tastes bad, real bad" and you really don't want to swallow it because it's no-good for the little bugs that keep everything in order , but when it comes to sore throats it's the job. The codeine is in Cold and Flu tablets....there's isn't a lot of it in there and there is a lot of paracetemol so for your livers sake you need to watch how many of those you have , sadly they don't have pseudoephedrine in them anymore.

The ad used to go "Soldier on with Codral , soldier on" ...true to their word you'd go from feeling like you had a gaping head and neck wound and semi consciousness to 100% , over the counter , non-prescription.

Got a bit done yesterday, just housework sort of stuff while I was fitting the motor up. Cleaning threads, changed a few bolts here and there, cleaned a few things up a bit. Had to drain the oil again so I opened up the hole in the sub floor a bit.Got the gearbox shift gantry sorted, moved the clutch line from where I'd tidied it to a spot a little further from the headers. Speaking of headers I cleaned them up and repainted them......it was only after I finished that I looked at the can and realised that although when I picked it up off the shelf in the shop it was in amongst the "flameproof" paints it was just "hi-temp"...so that'll cook off the first time we fire the motor :roll:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 15, 2010, 05:18:04 PM
Unh, Dr. G, while it's known widely here on the Forum that you're in a foreign country whre the rules are far different from those of the U S of A -- what "medicines" you've mentioned are enough to get the website shut down, all of us investigated as potential drug-smuggling terrorists, and a slap from Grandma that thinks cod liver oil is enough for any ailments.

Iodine AND codeine?  Whoa -- must make for a fun trip. . .

This coming from a country where adrenochrome is legal?

What happens in the desert stays in the desert, but since we have become active participants rather than mere spectators, all I can say is that Speedweek has a lot less fear and loathing these days...

I have some great footage of the Lady Hedgash cooking in our motorhome in slow motion. She invented a dish called "Gairgners" (pronounced Geggners)  which was canned apricot halves on jam on a small flapjack. Looked just like a raw egg yolk but very refreshing on the salt.

rH+




Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 15, 2010, 07:26:04 PM
Rev, sir -- I had to look up adrenochrome -- and I grew up in the '60s.  Ain't it great?  As DuPont used to advertise - "Better Living Through Chemistry".

So now I've heard of adrenochrome.  I've also heard of "geggners".  I don't care much for apricots, though, but the dried ones are nice for a road-food snack, especially when eaten with salted peanuts.  I make our own home made jam.

Okay, back to the regularly scheduled Forum topic.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank and Mojitos
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 15, 2010, 11:06:40 PM
What happens in the desert stays in the desert, but since we have become active participants rather than mere spectators, all I can say is that Speedweek has a lot less fear and loathing these days.

Yeah well, I didn't even have one bottle of Jamiesons there last year, let alone three, I did have some after dinner drinks but they were largely full when put back on top of the piano at The Spirit of Sunshine Workshops........I even took some beer home :?.....That is some measure of the difference between spectating and competing....As mentioned earlier in the thread there was the possibility that there would be no ice truck at this years meet, that , I have to tell you was not a pleasant prospect....Hard work on some members parts has resulted in a contract to drop a freezer container at the lake to the great relief of many as it is feared that this year will be a hot one....last week there were consecutive days of 110F...

This year I'll be throwing some white rum, fresh mint and brown sugar in the trolley at Pt Augusta and knocking up a few Mojitos just as the sun sets before heading up to the canteen for some grub.............

IBA specified ingredients

† 4.0 cl White Rum
3.0 cl Fresh lime juice
3 sprigs of Mint
2 teaspoons Sugar
(http://bestof.longislandpress.com/li/wp-content/uploads/15.jpg)

17 days..........
 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 16, 2010, 07:36:30 PM
Dr G said that with so many bolt heads on it that it looked, "You know...".
I said "...English?" referring to the tendency of UK engineers to use 18 bolts when 4 well placed ones would do, and he said, "No, it looks kinda gay".
Reverend H+

Well, I finally got it all zipped up last night.......

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P2161221.jpg)

and as I suspected it does look a little "Macho Macho Man"....the more observant amongst you will note that the hose spigot on the NRV looks a little tall, yes , it is, I have ordered a right angle one .

After that I continued on messing around in the engine bay, tidied up a backing plate/bracket that we made for the idler pulley which had some sharp edges on it( only a matter of time before I gave myself a reason to go to hospital on that) and fitted the throttle bodies........., throttle linkage and some of the heat shields......we'll be starting it this weekend if things go as planned.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 16, 2010, 08:04:44 PM
While I'm a big fan of coining new euphemisms, this is clearly not English - it's not leaking.

Very impressive, this thrash.  Much success in - ohmygoodness 2 weeks?!?!? :-o

 :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on February 16, 2010, 08:40:30 PM
Didn't feel too well yesterday, sore throat, headache......started gargling a bit of iodine, had some codeine, woke up this morning and coughed up an alien life form....so I took the day off and finished the motor fit.....I'd rather be at home by myself than sitting at a desk with everyone looking at me like I was carrying live ordinance...

Thanks, am at work with the same thing  :?
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 21, 2010, 05:38:26 AM
OK. Yesterday I put the fuel system together,that is the singular.....the truth is I put the fuel system together, completely, once....but I put it together to various states of completeness a lot of times.... There is very little room anywhere in our car and the area behind the rear bulkhead which contains the fuel tank, filter and pump is a madhouse.I methodically worked my way through every single wrong way to assemble it ( and even just now I thought to myself " oh, I should have , dah, dah ,dah ,dah ,dah.")before finally do it all in an order so that I could fit and tighten everything........it was a relief today when I filled the tank and it didn't leak anywhere......so by the end of yesterday I've got most of the muster done on getting to starting the motor today............We get into it this morning, the Rev is trying to nut out the megasquirt system he's built sorted out and the Colonel and I are out in the shed getting the final stuff done to start-up.

We fire the motor for the first time it splutters.....second kick it stumbles and the starter throws out, third time it fires and runs, but it stumbles off idle, though it was a bit off color the Colonel looked at me comically and said " is that louder than it was before?",  too right it was, much, much louder and with a sharper edge to the note..........The Colonel is a bit WFWAT after a birthday for his significant other yesterday, I've went to a fortieth, last night....The Colonel isn't looking like he's relishing an afternoon of gremlin chasing.....we stop for lunch, just for the exercise we swap the computer in the car to another stock one ( we ran with a stock ecu with a memcal chip last year), it ran fine..... so that was a relief, a bit of mix and match will sort out what's wrong with the chipped computer.

The Colonel also fitted some "idiot lights" to the switch bay in the cab, this stuff isn't really accessible when you're driving, it's six inches left of your head, we didn't have a light on the alternator, so it had no exciter working and the other one is an injector function so it's for startup.The dash, on the steering wheel, has changed slightly.....it's getting complicated , there's velcro for the GPS,a main switch toggle off/on(the starter button is just inside the front hoop where it's reachable from out side), a momentary button for the chute release, a 1x2 inch red light ...oil pressure.....I think that sums it all up

We put the water tank on and the tail bodywork,we had to do some fettling on the elbow fitting off the rollover/breather to clear the bodywork , the chute release is much improved , we're looking OK at this point and there's news of good salt ......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: joea on February 21, 2010, 08:15:29 AM
very f'n cooool.......:):)

keep it up...!!!

Joe :)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 21, 2010, 10:26:21 AM
Do I hear the flutter of the " '10 Salt Race Butterflies"  stretching and drying their wings as they emerge from their cocoons.  Guys we can just feel the anticipation and the excitement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 21, 2010, 02:25:06 PM
Excellent news! 

There was talk of putting this thing on the dyno.  I wasn't clear if you were going to use a chassis dyno, or if you were going to hook up to an engine dyno.  Clearly an engine dyno is out at this point.  Are you just going to go for it, or were you thinking a chassis dyno?

By the way, I went to the DLRA website.  Here's the text on volunteers for latrine duty, and the link -

http://www.dlra.org.au/task-toilets.html

Toilets
1. Description
 

2. Responsability
 

3. Tasks
3.1 Set Up
At the begining of Speedweek collect all eqipment from the storage containers at the DLRA camp.

3.2 During the event

3.3 Pack Up
At the conclusion of Speed Week all equipment is to be collected, packed away and returned to the storage containers at the DLRA camp

4. Equipment

5. Escalation
If there is an issue at any time that you are unable to resolve, the Pre-Stage offical reports directly to the Event Director.

Set 'em up, tear 'em down, and complain to the Pre-stage official if your out of toilet paper.  That's easy enough.   :-D

Wait a minute - is this a trap? :-o


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 21, 2010, 06:00:45 PM
Are you volunteering Crispy?

The Megasquirt. I took the time to build it when I was working in the Middle East as I was away from the Bellytank and it was one of the few contributions I could make during that time.

The problem with buying a complicated piece of equipment and getting to know all the ins and outs and assembling it a couple of years ago, is that my muddied brain has to try and remember everything I once knew back then.

The other problem is that it is all acronyms and similar ones at that tax my bad with names brain at the best of times.

Finally it is designed to be used on ANY engine and so the variables are endless and not being a engine management expert, navigating through what we need is a course of find the acronym, work out what it means, work out is that we need, move on to the next acronym.

But that in the end isn't what slew me on the weekend. I can handle step by step processes, I have the patience of a cricketer and the training of a stop motion animator, and I know with the right data we'll get there in the end.

What is currently the bar from progress is that it seems that there is an error in my wiring or a failure in a component of the thing as we are not getting the RPM readout we should from the device in test mode. Cripes!!!!

I cannot work out yet if it is the Megasquirt, or its testing device "the stim" that is malfunctioning. With only two weeks to go I had hoped we would spend tuning the unit, not only getting it attached and running.

The purpose for having this unit is two fold, firstly so we can maximise our power tand running smoothness. Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, we don't know what the existing computer will do when we go over its natural limits of rpm...

So I am going to research that latter question this week whilst trying to resolve our megasquirt issue. Fingers crossed that one will pay off.

dik


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 21, 2010, 06:43:49 PM

But that in the end isn't what slew me on the weekend. I can handle step by step processes, I have the patience of a cricketer and the training of a stop motion animator, and I know with the right data we'll get there in the end.
dik

he's not exagerating on the patience front......    and if yr gonna do this stuff ya need a bit of patience......


Set 'em up, tear 'em down, and complain to the Pre-stage official if your out of toilet paper.  That's easy enough.   :-D

Wait a minute - is this a trap? :-o
Yes , its a trap..........the whole sport is a trap..... "I'm just gonna take this little thing out there and see what she'll do, not get carried away or anything, just have a bit of fun "..........seven years, a few jobs, relationships, savings plans, a lot of metal......bravado, a few bytes..............I'm trapped...


Still , I'm not standing here yelling " GO BACK, IT"S A TRAP, NO!....GO BACK" am I?......... the sirens of the salt are calling and we're all swooning along.........Me?, jeez I read the news that the salt is as good as it's been in years and years and nearly ran a victory lap around the house...........

ha, ha ........man I'm excited.......  I did hear the other day that there's more than 150 entries.....


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 23, 2010, 09:17:27 PM
9 days to go ........

Not having the time to dyno the motor we are in a little bit of a spot...we are getting two versions of the ECU set up . we had a memcal chip in our computer last year, that has been sent to one tuner to have the rev-limiter lifted and we have sent another whole computer to a different tuner .

One was recommended to us by an engine builder and the other said he can do the memcal cheap........

So , all the specifics of the motor and the cam sheet have been sent off ....we'll see what we get ......

we've also found someone who has the Stim unit we can use to check whether our MegaSquirt is functioning properly...that's been posted to us ....so if we blow the motor up on the first pass we'll at least have heaps of gadgets to muck around with.........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on February 23, 2010, 09:48:05 PM
Don't you try that blow the motor up on the first Pass with me BOZO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on February 23, 2010, 09:55:47 PM
so if we blow the motor up on the first pass we'll at least have heaps of gadgets to muck around with.........

We will have more time to sit in our pits and drink
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 23, 2010, 09:58:16 PM
Ya know, Sparky, this engine's a clean sheet of paper.  Earlier they were debating as to whether or not to run the old one, and then SHAZAAM - whole new game plan.

I wish I had that kind of guts. :cheers: 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on February 24, 2010, 12:21:00 AM
I wish I had that kind of guts. :cheers: 

Yep
although i am still looking forward to  :cheers: at the lake

G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 24, 2010, 12:26:52 AM
Ya know, Sparky, this engine's a clean sheet of paper.  Earlier they were debating as to whether or not to run the old one, and then SHAZAAM - whole new game plan.

I wish I had that kind of guts. :cheers:  

well I got tied to the rack about "how much time has been spent this year on that thing" .......finger nails got pulled off, couple of electric shocks and then some water-boarding but I didn't tell ALL of it .....

be afraid Rev, burn or shred all calenders..................................


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on February 24, 2010, 12:47:26 AM
Shuduppppp mannnnnn SWMBO frequents the board...

exney entionmey the ostcays.

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 24, 2010, 12:50:55 AM
I had a Literature professor in college who would hand out a sheet of paper with questions on it regarding assignments we were about to hand in.  It would let you get your excuses clearly laid out before he sunk your effort. 

The one constant question, and always the last one on the list, was, "If you had another 24 hours to prepare this paper, what would you do differently?"

By the end of the semester, that question was drilled into my head, and it had the effect on me of getting my assignments together faster, and more thoroughly.

Come the last paper of the semester, and the last question, I was able to confidently answer, "I already built in the extra time".  I got an A in that course.

I think you guys are on the same path. 

200+ it shall be.

If we don't chat before you take off, best of luck to the Spirit of Sunshine.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 24, 2010, 01:29:49 AM
Have you guys checked the bonehead simple stuff, like making sure all of the earth connections are proper and putting in a new battery?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on February 24, 2010, 03:24:37 AM
Our biggest problem at the moment looks like the road in to the lake
keep in mind that it is about 100 miles of dirt
G

http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/quicklinks/northern_roads/area3.asp





Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 24, 2010, 04:50:03 AM
Have you guys checked the bonehead simple stuff, like making sure all of the earth connections are proper and putting in a new battery?

We've done a full reassemble, battery is good and the alt makes 14v at idle, there is a stainless bolt welded to the frame as the earth and the rest of the loom has been refitted......apart from a few things the engine/trans section has been completely checked......just hoping we get the new ECU's by the weekend for a start up.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on February 24, 2010, 08:25:42 AM
Surely there's a stretch of deserted road that you could do a little test and tune.... it's a big country....

Don't over worry it, prepare the best you can and give it a go.  Remember to have fun, be safe and go fast.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 24, 2010, 05:18:17 PM
Our car is less than two inches off the deck, we have to put boards down to get it out of my shed and along the driveway, no shinola it's a nightmare to move it ANYWHERE other than on the salt, the only jacking point other than the axles is the rear radius rod boxes...I'd never take it out on dirt ....but we will get to run it on the test track.............

Last night I was reading back through some of our diary on the DLRA site and found some of the first discussions between us and Scotty who we got this bottom end from.....he used to turn it to 7000rpm when he ran it N/A on the quarter. we have a wet sump but we do have a crank-case vacuum system that pulls some pretty serious vacuum.....my only concern is whether we are gonna stuff the rocker covers full of oil and starve the bottom end.

Hey Bob I also noticed a post from nearly three years ago where you were encouraging us to do some back road testing :-D :-D....don't worry, I grew up in the bush and had my share of "paddock-bombs" and did my tyime doing "circle work"..........

Any suggestions on oil management that people have will be gladly accepted but at this point we are pretty muchon the delivery path and we ain't pullin' out now.

 :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Kiwi Paul on February 25, 2010, 12:19:10 AM
Any room left to put a couple of drain back hoses from the Valve covers to the Oil Pan? All my old Smallblock Ford engines had those, they were notorious for filling the Covers up.....Don`t forget, leaky gaskets there = oil on exhaust...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 25, 2010, 12:39:07 AM
Can't seem to find  a side on shot of the engine bay right now but there isn't much room at either end of the covers...and of course as you note it's not the kind of job that you do in a slap dash fashion ....oil+red hot headers = FIRE!........

I just had a discussion with the Castlemaine Rod shop about bellhousings for the brand new Alloytec quad-cam motor that we have and I am increasingly of the mind that we are never going to use it, there ain't enough adaptor parts available, the ECU situation is a nightmare and if we break it we could never afford to fix it...... that's on top of having to build all new ancillaries, scatter shield, inlet , exhaust,cooling system , change the cowl, no-one makes billet flywheels for them, they have a strange clutch ....... all that time and effort could be spent on the motors we have ...that are dirt cheap, simple, and have a proven performance history rather than potentially expensive stabs in the dark...........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on February 25, 2010, 03:11:30 AM
Well
Get it on ebay
Its' taking up room in my shed that cold be used for old Hienkels
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on February 26, 2010, 03:22:54 PM
Doc, where does the vacuum pump draw from?

I've been tinkering with the idea of running at least a vacuum pump on the Pug we've got in the Berk (I'd prefer a main girdle W/ a dry sump but the $$$ aren't showing up  :-( ).

With it I was going to run the inlet of the pump to the crankcase and put a vacuum regulator on the cam cover vent (with a filter on the regulator inlet to try and keep the salt ingestion to a minimum).

It's not as good as a dry sump scavenge stage, but should help, as there wouldn't be any partial flow going against the drainback flow path. Pulses maybe, but the thought I have is a small positive pressure on the top end (relative to the crankcase) should "encourage" the flow (aerate it some as well, unfortunately).

Just a thought, without knowing how yours is plumbed I have no idea how applicable it may be.

That and the Pug has a fitting in the block that appears to be baffled for some emissions vent (it's where I was going to plumb the pump in). I would run the discharge from the pump to a fairly large separator tank with a restricted drainback fitting run back to the sump (say maybe a #40 ~ 2.5mm restriction).

Probably no time left for you to build any of it though. :-(


Good luck.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 26, 2010, 04:40:45 PM
here's some posts from a couple years back ...describing how I made a vacu-pan from a anti-pollution air injection set-up.....

Nov 20 2007Well , I had an inkling that lower than atmospheric pressure in the crankcase would help , and I spent some time talking to someone who's had success with these motors before , he was very helpful and that was his suggestion ,and ,true to my suspicions ,he had a solution that was more grocery store than jewellery store....that's what we like...

So ,off I went to a wrecking yard...where I scavenged a reed valve and some stainless tubing from an air-pump/injection anti pollution set-up from a 323/Laser ...these are not what you would call hotly sought after items ......a quick look at a system built for a Clevo and a coldie courtesy of the owner and all I had to do was tell some stories......listen to some told by another weird pest/home creator type like myself and I was on my way......Everytime I go to Bill's yard I wish i'd taken my camera because I always see little bits and pieces , knuckles , pivots . STUFF that I can use to make what I've already built better... most of the stuff I'm talking about is scrap , rubbish that lies in the open ....sometimes , sometimes when I manage to get his imagination to fire ( it needs a bit of aerostart usually but it does work)..he 'll go on a hyperactive scramble around , under and over in an effort to show me the different examples of how something is done.....but on the really rare occasion I get to see inside the "inner sanctum" a freight container with his booty from swap meets....Methanol injection manifolds from the fifties , Ford GT stuff , blowers , Flathead performance gear(?)...usually a visit to this container is preceded by a warning accompanied by a waving index finger held above his shoulder as you are following him ..." this isn't for sale".......

Now this fella I mentioned who'd had experience with the V6's we're using also had some great advice about our harness and arm restraints.....all very useful and garnered from experience ...nothing to do with proving his importance just good helpful considered expert advice , it won't go unheeded.

Thanks Jack. wink

and then...

Dec 5 2007Today I got started on the home-style vacu-pan....welded a bung into one of the collectors....flared some stainless tube that was part of the booty that I collected and wended it( that's a word innit?) up through one of the few remaining spaces to where I'll put the valve on it....that tube is hard stuff..I had a go at it with my little tube bender and thought "nah , that's too useful to break on something I got for nothing".......so it got that old witches finger kind of look to it.......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 27, 2010, 06:31:46 PM
We got everything buttoned up yesterday, fitted the fire extinguishers, did a last minute check on it all, fitted up the lower bodywork, the wheels pumped the tires, fitted another temp gauge and generally farted around tidying up the shed for the trailering up.Today we'll drop it off the stands and clear the driveway of EVERY small piece of steel, screws, and all other tire puncturing items. Yesterday we discussed ( not for the first time) getting some rough tires and wheels for rolling her around on...Then we just need to organize the tools and spares and get the camping gear sorted....by then it will be Friday and that's when we're going.

There's scattered showers in the area of Lake Gairdner but the forecast looks great and so we're quietly confident.

5 days..........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on February 27, 2010, 07:13:26 PM
Curious as to the ECU issue.  Sounds like you've got it licked.

Five days early - you guys are on it! :lol:

Great success to you next week.  Be safe, have fun, go fast, and give the folks who keep the record book something to edit.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on February 27, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
5 days 'til they leave, 8 'til race day...they've forgotten something for sure!

Was wondering about your ECU(s) myself Doc??

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 28, 2010, 04:29:47 AM
Curious as to the ECU issue.

They're gonna be guesses, all the info on the motor and cam, injectors etc got sent with them and we're just hoping we're somewhere in the ballpark.......We should have them back by Tuesday.The motor runs with a stock computer and there's overrides on the fuel pump ....but we don't know if it works because we forgot to throw it the last time I drove the car with the old motor and it was breaking down at 5200, as expected......a prior build of this new motor turned to 7000rpm running N/A over the quarter so we just hope the tune we get has enough fuel up the top end.......and as you know , we haven't dynoed it ...so, like I said it's a guess.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on February 28, 2010, 11:11:10 PM
Doc,

Are you're taking a notebook and cable to edit at the salt I assume?

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 28, 2010, 11:27:26 PM
Our logging capability is still in doubt , if there's no logging...there'll be no fiddling......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on March 01, 2010, 12:31:17 AM
Don't transport it on your race tires.

FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on March 01, 2010, 01:19:34 AM
Our logging capability is still in doubt , if there's no logging...there'll be no fiddling......
Makes sense to me, doubt RE on board hardware, on board software or PC software?

Enquiring minds and all that.

Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 01, 2010, 05:07:07 AM
Don't transport it on your race tires.

FREUD

fERd, I have four old white wall cross plies......exactly the same size as the rears, ....but that means we've an extra two inches of clearance on the front which will really speed up getting it into the trailer.....

Our logging capability is still in doubt , if there's no logging...there'll be no fiddling......
Makes sense to me, doubt RE on board hardware, on board software or PC software?

Inquiring minds and all that.

Rob

I have no idea what you're talkin' about Rob.......do you mean Religious Education........ :?

 ...I got expelled from Sunday School


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on March 01, 2010, 05:51:31 AM
Hey Doc

Are you aiming to be in PA Saturday night or on the lake? BTW - I take it that Scotty that the motor came from is Scott (BlownVN) from Street Machine?

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 01, 2010, 03:30:35 PM
hi Paul, we'll be salt-side Saturday night...haven't stayed in the gutter since the first time I went. We're stopping at Dirty Dave's in the Barossa on Friday night for red wine and red meat and then heading at off Sparrows fart for the lake( seven hours)........


And yes that's the Scotty we're talking about..........we'd been talking to him about it for a while, he was buzzed that we did 160 with a stock one and had sold all but the bottom end out of the VN , he didn't give it to us but we didn't haggle much over what he did want, nice bloke...he'll still retain some bragging rights.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on March 01, 2010, 04:29:10 PM
Doc, what are you fellahs doing for data acquisition?



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 01, 2010, 05:26:24 PM
Zero data aquisition this year as we are merely running a modified chip on the original computer from the Commodore.

Next year we will have the Megasquirt operating and that has data logging capability, but am unsure how much.

This year the logging will be in our memory.

I don't think Donald Campbell had data logging but he seemed to do ok...

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on March 01, 2010, 07:54:50 PM
Guys----we are wishing we could be there----maybe in the future  :cheers:  heres to Going realy fast and being safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on March 01, 2010, 08:01:13 PM
Go real fast guys. Wayno  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 01, 2010, 08:36:50 PM
FSB Mr Tracy!

rH+
(*FSB= Fast Safe Beautiful our credo)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 01, 2010, 09:06:43 PM
FSB Mr Tracy!

rH+
(*FSB= Fast Safe Beautiful our credo)

I thought it was "duck"
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 01, 2010, 10:04:08 PM
Have received in the mail our remapped chip from a chap in Tasmania*.

Looked for one on eBay, emailed a seller, turns out he could give a specific map, so I posted the memcal and he posted back all done the next day.

Bless the Internet. Dancing around at work now, getting excited.


Reverend Hedagsh


Interesting local fact # 1 : For those unaware of Australia's geography, Tasmania is the female pubic hair shape south of the main island; hence the expression for such a region here being called a "map of tassie".



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 01, 2010, 10:10:55 PM
Rev, it's just all falling into place. :-D



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on March 01, 2010, 10:34:07 PM
Well guys it seems everyone in the free world is behind your effort, while some are hoping for a good result, most of us here are expecting one.  You are going to love that 200 MPH feeling.
good luck with the weather, good skill with the car, your time is here
 :cheers:

Wear your lucky night shirt  :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 01, 2010, 10:43:29 PM
I better wear more than that, we are sleeping in the one tent!!!

rH+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 01, 2010, 10:47:31 PM
Wear your lucky night shirt  :wink:

As stage manager, script writer, barman and head of wardrobe I will be presenting the Speed Limit 1000 Boxcar shirts and the new Bonneville shirts to the Colonel and the Rev at the Lake, grotophaphic evidence to follow......

I think it's just a case of packing now, I ordered the last of the spares today...........

Thanks for all the good wishes, once again we don't take the support and help we've received from all here over the years lightly, we'll be thinking of you guys too and will report back at the first possible opportunity......
I better wear more than that, we are sleeping in the one tent!!!
rH+

and you know, that reminds me of a great old joke that really isn't appropriate to tell anywhere....but does include the line..."would you tell anyone?"


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: landsendlynda on March 01, 2010, 10:56:52 PM
Stay safe.  Go fast.  Stay upright...and may the Salt Gods shine on all of you!!

Good luck,
Lynda


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 01, 2010, 11:19:10 PM
5 days 'til they leave, 8 'til race day...they've forgotten something for sure!
I think it's just a case of packing now, I ordered the last of the spares today...........

We were wondering if you were going to remember the beer. :cheers:

Go get' em!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 01, 2010, 11:47:08 PM
We were wondering if you were going to remember the beer. :cheers:

give me a BIT of credit........ :roll:........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 02, 2010, 12:12:58 AM
We were wondering if you were going to remember the beer. :cheers:

give me a BIT of credit........ :roll:........

So you heard about last years effort then
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 02, 2010, 12:27:52 AM
Give me a lot of credit... I'm broke.

d


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 02, 2010, 12:31:38 AM
Give me a lot of credit... I'm broke.d

Hey Colonel!

we've got a servant!
(http://www.antlionpartyhire.com.au/images/waiter.gif)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on March 02, 2010, 08:51:50 AM
Hey, get back to work on the car...  :-o  we need to see production

How about a picture of the car on the trailer ready to go  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on March 02, 2010, 08:18:28 PM
Trailer delivery show tonight, one night only!

It’s a cringe scene from an old Seinfeld episode getting the big box squished between Docs brick gate posts and down the drive. He lives on a busy road so we block traffic for ages during two dozen reversing attempts (box trailer width 2.5 metres, leaning gate post gap 2.6 metres)…

- the Rev yelling “…not that Left the other one.”
- Goggs yelling “shut the F@#k up, I can’t hear Pete”
- Some bloke in a hot Commadore squeals tyres, leans on air horns, yells “Bunch of F@#kin Wankers”
- PJQ jack-knifes truck for the third time, yelling “I can’t F@#kin’ see the fence”
- Neighbour kids gethered for the show think it’s hilarious.

Oi-vey, here we go again.
 :-P


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 02, 2010, 09:41:09 PM

Hey Colonel!

we've got a servant!


Savant?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 02, 2010, 11:05:30 PM
I'm a very good driver.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 04, 2010, 02:22:41 AM
Do you think you can buy a 3.2a/15 race
suit in Melbourne on a Thursday
 
If it wasn't for the last minute............. :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on March 04, 2010, 03:38:46 AM
Grumm,

How tall and how heavy are you?

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 04, 2010, 06:30:19 AM
The trailer is loaded, the car tied down. I have the trailer with parts, tools and camping gear packed....it's been a long day. I think I gave the neighbors a fright give it a bit of a rev in the drive, it sounds mad........We leave early tomorrow for the two day trip,eight hours a day.

I might have access tomorrow night, otherwise it's ten days from now.adios :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on March 04, 2010, 09:21:55 AM
Vios con dios!   8-)

Mike


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: ol38y on March 04, 2010, 10:44:20 AM
Looking forward to hearing big numbers from use guys...

Good Luck... :cheers:

Larry


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Glen on March 04, 2010, 11:59:08 AM
A great event with fast times for our down under friends. Be waiting to hear the results. Go fast and be safe.
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: landsendlynda on March 04, 2010, 12:39:36 PM
Good luck to everyone.  Stay safe on your journey.  Can't wait for you to come back with a fantastic meet under your belts and records all over the place!!

Stay safe, Go fast, Stay upright!

Lynda


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 12, 2010, 02:32:22 AM
Reverend Hedgash reporting on the road with Grumms iPod doohickey. Heavy rain on Sunday filled the lake and we weren't able to get started until Tuesday afternoon. Weather good from then on. Lots of cars going over 200 mph but poor old Norm Hardinge had troubles again with his engine. Worse still his one good run the timing light didn't work and he thought he had the right revs for 200 so he will have to do it when he goes back to Bonneville this year.

Our story is both Goggles and I had ordinary first runs getting back into the drivers seat, with mine particularly bad upset by going into the wrong gear (!)

We had a few issues that Grumm sorted out and at the end of the day our best run was 193mph which was as fast as it would go before blowing a seagull report when we get back. 

Rh+


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 12, 2010, 08:24:38 AM
We just heard that Brett De Stoop on bike 509 running APS/F 1000
with a motor he cast at home ran 231 last run on Friday
in perfect conditions
G
:cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: bvillercr on March 12, 2010, 09:27:25 AM
That's great, but I was hoping to hear what the belly tank did?  This is their build site. :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wolcottjl on March 12, 2010, 09:53:27 AM
That's great, but I was hoping to hear what the belly tank did?  This is their build site. :cheers:

From previous page  --  :cheers:

Reverend Hedgash reporting on the road with Grumms iPod doohickey. Heavy rain on Sunday filled the lake and we weren't able to get started until Tuesday afternoon. Weather good from then on. Lots of cars going over 200 mph but poor old Norm Hardinge had troubles again with his engine. Worse still his one good run the timing light didn't work and he thought he had the right revs for 200 so he will have to do it when he goes back to Bonneville this year.

Our story is both Goggles and I had ordinary first runs getting back into the drivers seat, with mine particularly bad upset by going into the wrong gear (!)

We had a few issues that Grumm sorted out and at the end of the day our best run was 193mph which was as fast as it would go before blowing a seagull report when we get back. 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: bvillercr on March 12, 2010, 10:00:56 AM
See what happens on a new page, you miss the last post.  Thanks for the update. :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: don on March 12, 2010, 10:12:47 AM
I read this whole thread starting last week, that killed a few hours! great story and 193 is nothing to sneeze at.
But could some please translate for me what the H is "before blowing a seagull report"    :-o


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: hitz on March 12, 2010, 12:01:25 PM
I hope "blowing" in the last sentence is not a key word!

harv


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 12, 2010, 03:34:28 PM
Hi All, we're still on the road, we stayed at my brother's place two hours from home.....we'd driven 13 hours non-stop from the lake and it was late so...I'll give a comprehensive update when I get home........The Reverend used his phone to send that last message of his and I guess it was using predictive text.....seagull is probably what the phone thought he meant, it was a SEAL....hey it's all sea-life innit?......

I ran 192 plus on Wednesday and then 193 on Thursday, I noticed a little oil on the cowl after the 193 and when we opened her up it was from the front seal....both runs the car pulled strongly until 195( same GPS top speed each run, I just middle it on the clocks better the second day I think) where it went away.We still have a stock valve train in the motor so whether it's the lifters pumping up or positive crank case pressure we ain't sure but we didn't hurt it so that was good news, we elected not to run it again.Jack, if you're reading this I want to have a chat about a few things..... :wink:

Brettie's 231 is a monstrous achievement on a 1000cc Waterbottle that he cast himself, at home, and then tuned....on the dyno he built at home to put in the frame and bodywork he built himself.......at home......

There were quite a few people who finally got 200 this year....three cars in C/Pro thumped it.

In all we're very happy....but we're also filthy, burnt and very very tired...........

I'll tell you more later :wink:


BTW: Bob, you got your photo's.....and you're gonna love 'em. :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 12, 2010, 03:48:47 PM
Ah, the wonderful letdown of an event being done.  You're bushed but happy, and looking forward to sleeping in your own bed, right?

Sounds like you had a fine time.  Congratulations -- on not hurting the motor (well, you'll find out for sure, but at least it's not obvious) and a bunch of good runs.

Welcome back to the world.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: don on March 12, 2010, 04:03:39 PM
OK Than easier to blow a seal then a seagull!  :-D
Take that as you will!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stan Back on March 12, 2010, 05:12:22 PM
Are you a Navy man?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 12, 2010, 06:29:26 PM
193 - that's a 30 mph increase over last year - well done!  No fuel cavitation, no data logging - for a dial-it-in-and-go effort on the engine management, and a new engine, that's GREAT!

Knocking on the door of 200 with a combination that should be easy to tweak now that you have a baseline - 2011 looks very promising.

Congratulations, Sunshine! :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: don on March 12, 2010, 08:55:32 PM
Are you a Navy man?

Nope. Just found that amusing even though I messed up what I was trying to say.
As I said I went through the whole thread this week. While reading it there where some things said that I had no idea what they meant. Had me scratching my head sometimes. The lanuauge maybe the same but it is different.
When I read blowing a seagull I was trying to figure out what that meant. Did they get light at speed and it tried to fly like a sealgull? Or was it something us, I did not even think about the computer and the auto complete of words. blowing a seal I understand.

But what I really want to know is if they are still talking off in 2nd gear?
What RPM where they running at 195 mph. If they did not change the gearing that things should have a lot more in it. But of course that depends what RPM that V6 has the most torque.
Really enjoyed this build thread, but they most likely need a break after a week on the salt.
I am looking forward to their story.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 12, 2010, 11:06:10 PM
Don,
Quick note, torque does not make you go fast, horsepower does. Toque is a measurement of force, horsepowe is a measurement energy (or work if you will) i.e. force x time which is what mekes you go fast.

Rex


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 12, 2010, 11:31:33 PM
But what I really want to know is if they are still talking off in 2nd gear?
What RPM where they running at 195 mph. If they did not change the gearing that things should have a lot more in it. But of course that depends what RPM that V6 has the most torque.

yup, still launching in second.... we're gonna put in a new new rear end this year, we have signed up to the Church of the Apostles of the seven and a half inch 10 bolt under the Prophet Bill Smith....with the current motor I reckon she'll pull a 2.4:1

Last year we ran 5200rpm for 161mph , 193 is 6250 or so.The cam should still be making power up to 7000 and a bit beyond ....... it just went away at that point though...I was getting about 12mph a mile, so it wasn't like I was having to pedal it...it was adequate,it will def do 200.


Now, be patient, I will write the whole thing up but I have a gig tomorrow.....and a thirst today after unpacking ... :wink:

just as a taster here's one of the Rev at the start...our Odyssey type gel battery carked it so the Colonel put an antenna base on the side of the car as a hot point so we could jump it at the line without having to take the cowl off...

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/P3111241.jpg)



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Stainless1 on March 13, 2010, 12:01:52 AM
Doc, Rev and Grumm, what an odyssey (forgive the battery word play) for you guys this year.  A 30 MPH increase is nothing to sneeze at, that is huge and we all wish we could add 30 to our number.  I know you would like to do 200, and I'll bet you'll be there next year.  Can't wait to see pics and read the story. 
Great pic to start us drooling   :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on March 13, 2010, 01:03:35 AM
Damm that is one good looking RIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 13, 2010, 02:25:01 AM
The first runs with all of those new parts are development runs.  You did very good.  193 is not a slow speed in a belly tank by any means.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on March 13, 2010, 02:57:55 AM
Who is this man and why is he wearing a bitter sweet grin?

What IS that black spot under the car?  :|

Well done Doc and Reverend, you guys did good. Even Al Fountain's tank busted a $20 part to end his week early and you both upped your personal bests.

(http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu331/Dwizdofoz/Speed%20Week%202010/DSCF5654.jpg)

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on March 13, 2010, 03:14:28 AM
Now this was pretty darn funy stuff. This is the pre-race wheel alignment. The good Doctor is on the spanners (wrenches for the unwashed) whilst the Reverend sat in his chair giving direction. When I rocked up I thought he was asleep or meditating.

Doc would make an adjustment, the Reverend would pass technical comment.."It's still pointing in" and then Doc would walk out and have a look for himself. When they compared sides the Reverence would stand holding his chair, shuffle to the left, sit and peer at the front wheel. (Yes it was chilly, hence the jacket). Maybe you had to be there but it still gives me a chuckle. Well done fellas, I had fun visiting.

(http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu331/Dwizdofoz/Speed%20Week%202010/DSCF5555.jpg)

Wheel alignment requires special tools and these can be hard to find on a salt lake 2 hours down a dirt track.

(http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu331/Dwizdofoz/Speed%20Week%202010/DSCF5552.jpg)



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: penny on March 13, 2010, 04:11:11 AM
I took 3 salt newbies for a ride down to the seven mile and they were well impressed when the first car was  doc and he went  past at 193 and then came and parked alongside to await the tow vehicle. then a monaro ( an australian version of a camaro) went past at 215 and came back up the return road at 5000 rpm.a welcome to the salt for them.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on March 13, 2010, 06:04:03 AM
We were down 3 miles (close to Alcatraz Island) at the GPS track looking for a D shackle when John Lynch was due to come past. So we stopped and all four of us were standing on the roof of Chris Hanlon's wagon as he came down the track in his lakester and passed us (at a good distance) at his 5/6 mile at 258 mph and then popped his chutes. It was a great and rare sight at relatively close proximity.

Better luck next year guys and as usual it is a pleasure to catch up with you and all your posse. Big Gaz and I look forward to seeing you all again next year!

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 13, 2010, 07:11:25 AM
Now this was pretty darn funy stuff. This is the pre-race wheel alignment. The good Doctor is on the spanners (wrenches for the unwashed) whilst the Reverend sat in his chair giving direction.

Yeah thanks for the "upskirt shots" Rob, thing is the steering box on the car isn't indexed and we hadn't done a wheel alignment after the last time it was removed.It will be going for an alignment and then the mount for the steering box will be indexed so it can be removed without upsetting the whole dox and bice...........

Rob hasn't done us the courtesy of showing the fine end of the op or maybe he wasn't interested, but it did involve a little more fine adjustment than it appears here....



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 13, 2010, 04:31:44 PM
We were down 3 miles (close to Alcatraz Island) at the GPS track looking for a D shackle when John Lynch was due to come past. So we stopped and all four of us were standing on the roof of Chris Hanlon's wagon as he came down the track in his lakester and passed us (at a good distance) at his 5/6 mile at 258 mph and then popped his chutes. It was a great and rare sight at relatively close proximity.

Better luck next year guys and as usual it is a pleasure to catch up with you and all your posse. Big Gaz and I look forward to seeing you all again next year!

Lynchy


Like wise Lynchy, .....for those reading Gaz and Lynchy are building the XJS Jag that you may have seen early shots of....both work hard on the volunteer side all week and Gaz scrutineered our car this year, he didn't pick anything I disagreed with and always has useful practical suggestions.

Thanks for your efforts guys, we too look forward to seeing you again next year, same goes for you Penny, good effort organizing the ice  :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on March 13, 2010, 07:48:48 PM
Rob hasn't done us the courtesy of showing the fine end of the op or maybe he wasn't interested, but it did involve a little more fine adjustment than it appears here....
Smile Doc,

I left before you were done remember. All in jest, if I'd thought it was unsafe I'd have said so right then and there.

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Nexxussian on March 13, 2010, 11:23:04 PM
Congrats, sounds neat (especially the improvement part  :-D ).

Now if you would, eat, drink and sleep (repeat as required) and then 'splain about the 7 1/2" (ie which one and what are the believed benefits, please)?


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on March 14, 2010, 05:12:38 AM
Thanks Doc and a warning to all who subscribe to landracing.com that Big Gaz and I will be visiting Bonneville this August in the company of Andy Jenkins (one of the DLRA founders and member #2) and his mate Bill. Also coming along will be Al Fountain and his crew to take ownership of their new car.

We look forward to meeting some of you and any Jag racers that attend. We've set a target of taking the Jag to the next DLRA Speed Week so I will also make the effort of updating our build page here. We drove for the last two days discussing the project and all that has to be done and it is achievable with some focus. It will still run it's first year with the blown Ford motor with a twin turbo V12 to follow.... That's the plan anyway.

See you all in August!

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 14, 2010, 11:07:21 AM
Oh, no -- do you realise what you're letting yourselves in for by visiting SpeedWeek in Wendover?  First of all -- you'll spend way too much time saying howdy to all of the racers that you've come to know on the internet.  And you'll be required to attend Salt Talks (Sunday evening, after 5.30PM or so, at the Bend in the Road) -- where you'll see even more racers. 

Speaking of Salt Talks -- send me your full names (knicknames OK) and your hometown or racing affiliations so I can have engraved name tags awaiting you.  I'm making them this year -- Nancy and I bought a laser engraving business recently.  I'll be selling them, as a fundraiser for the website, for $5 each -- but I'll be glad to donate them to you folks from a distant land.  We want you to feel as welcome as possible, and anyway -- your faces aren't all that familiar to us up here and the nametags will make it easier for us to remember you.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on March 14, 2010, 07:36:58 PM
Jon

I've sent you a PM with the list of suspect characters that will be coming along. I'll have to make up some nicknames for Andy and his mate Bill.....

I'll restart dialog on the Jag build page and will keep it up to date during the year. This build site is pretty crowded and don't want to change the threads direction (I know it would not be a first though).

Maybe Dr G and the Rev will come over as well one day? I think their budget for the next year will be all spent chasing the extra 7mph!

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 14, 2010, 07:47:50 PM
Ok, this is the wrap.

We left Sunshine at about 10am on Friday the 5th, the Rev and Colonel arriving together before PJQ and Frank who were in the Land Cruiser( the "Troopy") which tows the tank in Pete's(PJQ) trailer, Pete had had a little drama in peak hour traffic with fuel system and had had to bleed it on the side of the road. I'd trailered the car the night before and finally finished the sorting and packing of spares and tools ....but as always there were things that I wish I'd done as well.

It's a left turn at the end of my street and then 450miles before we leave the Western Highway at Murray Bridge. The Troopy pulls fifty to fifty-five so the two station wagons went ahead. The train spotters will be interested to hear that my 3.8V6 with an older style fogger LPG system and a canvas top trailer got exactly the same fuel economy as the Colonel's 5.7V8 with an injected LPG system pulling a slightly bigger slope front trailer.... and I mean exactly the same, er, except when it used more..........it might be down to driving style :roll:...

So we turn off at Murray Bridge and head toward the Barossa Valley one of Australia's premier wine districts where we were going to stay with our mate Dirty Dave , plumber and bike nut. Dave and Christine turn on a feed with the best t-bone steak I have had in a very long time....also there for the night was Brett de Stoop with his 1000cc waterbottle in tow and his mate and early DLRA member Nigel Begg who was one of the founders of Deus ex Machina the Sydney custom bike business .

We head off the next morning after an early night , we miss the highly recommended organic farmers market and stop in Nooriootpa for fuel and the Reverend asks" where is the aeroplane museum?"......it's a few miles out of town. We find the place and get out of the cars for our first meeting with WH700 the Canberra bomber that our "bellytank" came from...the plane has two tanks on and we are still unsure as to why the one we have was separated from her but the build plate indicates it was one of the originals manufactured for the plane.We take some "family snaps" and get back out on the road for the four hours to Port Augusta.

In the "Gutta" we shop for food and buy a few things we've forgotten, then we go to the bottle shop :-o From the Gutta to the Lake is 130 miles, the first thirty five are sealed then it's onto the dirt....Saturday afternoon is generally busy and so it was , after passing a bunch of buses and slower moving tows we settle in behind Gnome Racing's Torana being towed behind a turbo diesel and they were hammering ,we made it to the Lake in under two hours and the road was generally good, dust was severe but the corrugations weren't as bad as they have been.

I drive straight out onto the Lake to claim a pit , laying out a tarp and dropping most of the tools and stuff off , a very very strong southerly wind is blowing. I head back up to the lakeside camp and we set up the "Casa del Canvas". Pete and Frank arrive with the Troopy and we send them down to the Lake to drop the trailer, Pete looked real tired , we owe him the world for towing our car these last two years, Pete decides to camp down the end of the campground with a view of the lake while we for some reason are in the boonies, our site at least was flat. We've barely eaten but after the massive meal we'd had the night before it wasn't surprising...we fixed a couple of gin and tonics, it started to spit.

It was a cold , blowey, and yes ....wet night....estimates of between a half and an inch of rain ....exactly what had happened last year, the sun rose with doom and gloom on the UHF, the Lake, was closed. At least this year we had the car in the pits. We walked down to the Lake and out to the pits which thankfully were a good mile and a half closer to the shore than usual, the stream which runs around the southern shoreline was flowing fairly quickly to the east but there was between one and two inches of depth and it was at least a quarter mile wide. When we got out to the pits we found there was a quarter of an inch covering the whole area, visibly flowing south east toward the shore and the stream, it was miserable. We opened up the trailer and got the car out and started getting organised.........the wind was blowing , the air was warm and the sun was starting to peak out, this was going to get better, the salt was rock hard, it might have had a covering of water but it was like concrete. There were already quite a few spectators walking out to the pits and taking photos and asking questions....we need to build a little box with a button and speaker because my jaw got sore telling people about the car, I reckon i told fifty separate people what we'd done to the motor in about an hour, always ending with " I'd better get on with it". We buttoned the car up , made everything weather tight and headed to the canteen.....we were in the middle of nowhere, out of contact with a bit of time on our hands and there on the hill was a little shack that sold food and beer......it was time to let our hair down a bit...truth is we were stuffed, I think we hit the wall at about 10pm and bedded down.

Monday morning was a better deal again, the air was dry, the clouds were gone .....we walked out to the pits and the surface layer of water was gone, the stream was only half as wide, this was going to happen. We set up the shade and the annex on the trailer and did all the fit up in the cart, the seat, computer and harness, did the "wheel alignment" mentioned above , polished the screen and got the car ready for scrutineering....there were mixed message about when this would happen so the last thing we did before walking off the lake was to push the tank into the line for tech, we were number four.

I got up at 6am and went for a shower, they are cold , and it was....I yipped as the water hit me...there was an old bloke laughing in one of the cans.." you're a braver man than me Gunga Din" I got on the push-bike and rode down to the pits, yep they were gonna start scrut'. I got the suit , helmet and log-book and unbuttoned the necessaries on the car. The Rev arrived just as Gaz finished . He picked us on a few things. We don't have a master kill on the extinguisher system to take out the hot side of the battery, he wanted more drainage holes in the bodywork, he picked a few bits of wiring that could be better protected , they will all be rectified for next year.

I left the tank sitting near tech until Rod Hadfield came over and asked me" how long are you gonna leave that there for James?"......I was pretty keen on being right on the spot when they opened marshalling.....we pushed her back to the pit about a quarter of a mile away and then hung around trying to work out how to swing it. The drivers' meeting was confirmed for 3pm, to be followed by the track drive....before the drivers meeting we rolled the car back near tech, the moment it finished we pushed to the marshalling point, we were fourth in line.....we went on the track drive with Simon Davidson photographer from Street Machine , he's a great bloke even if he is from Sydney and drives a Ford.

We get back from the track drive and it's all systems go. Its four o'clock as I drive straight into the crunchies from marshalling and everyone else drives around me...just like last year..this is the first proper drive I've had with the new motor...we elected to steer clear off the test track as it looked even rougher than last year, and I couldn't see then so we skipped it. The graded areas were rougher than last year we think because the salt was so much harder, another factor was that rather than using the club's old Dodge truck much of the work was done by tractors and some believe that the towing speed may have been too high giving a less satisfactory result.

So, here I am at the start line area for the second year. Last year the car ran 160 odd and felt like it was on hotmix and required almost zero steering input, we had a new motor ...I was itching to go. There was a succession of minor hitches with the clocks, then the first guy off the line was an altered 125, who stated he would be running a record, well, he ran the long track and they couldn't find him.......Speedweek 2010 was on.

I sat suited and belted in the car for nearly an hour, I'd had a small bowl of cereal and nowhere near enough to drink since dawn....I was feeling impatient....it turned out we were to run eighth.

With a rolling push from a few guys I took off and the car felt strong, but I hadn't got my posi right ...the change to the seat base meant I was sitting lower....I shifted into third and was getting hammered while struggling to get a good view AND keep my helmet off the cage. The track felt rough and the cross wind was strong.

The start line had been moved because of the wet to where it was only about 1 and a quarter mile to the quarter trap. The two mile mark was coming at me when I checked the GPS, this was a 175mph license and 'chute pass , I was pulling 138....at that moment I hit a patch of track that threw the car and caused me to back off momentarily, I got back into it and was immediately hit by a gust that pushed me from close to the right side of the track to hard on the left, once again I backed off , when I stepped on it the rear end broke loose causing me to back off....as I hit the first clock I glance down to see I was doing 155, I left the quarter at 165 and pulled the 'chute. It hit hard and as a consequence I clutched and hit the throttle at the same time giving her an over rev. I pulled off at the four mile worried that I hadn't made the cut.....I stopped about a mile off the track and waited for the Troopy.....the return roads were rough and the cones were scarce making it difficult to drive back unaccompanied and also for the first time there was a second track and I didn't want to risk the possibility of getting lost near the end of it. I followed the Troopy back going over the run in  my head....while I was driving I kept hearing what I thought was a clatter from the motor, and then I began to notice that she was feeling unresponsive, nothing  at part throttle and then blast off, it made it a real handful. We took it straight back to marshalling, I rolled the last few hundred yards, the Colonel was there...." how did it go?"...."there's something wrong" I said, "it doesn't feel right, i may have hurt it"......we fire her up and it's running on five, there is a clatter, after about ten seconds the Colonel kills it with a wry grin on his face and points at the left rocker cover and says "yep, there's something wrong, there, I can see a push-rod hitting the cover"............They announce that marshalling in closing so our number is taken and we roll back to the pit. On the way the Colonel says to me...." so, you've got that spare rocker gear with you?"....truth was when I elected not to bring the spare bottom end  and a spare head the parts that I had with them were left behind too.

We waited with baited breath as the first cover came off. There was the rocker sitting there , a tiny bit of swarf but nothing else...the bolt had simply backed out.  Seems the Colonel had undertorqued them. We checked the push-rod for true and did it all up again, then the other side. What a relief that was.

We hit the canteen , when people asked I confessed that I was disappointed, that I had been in a bad frame of mind, that I was impatient and that I had a bit of brain fade for the first fifteen seconds of my run. We had a great feed of roast chicken( no JN ,much better than it used to be) knocked over a few beers and had another early night, a camp near us kicked on til really late but we were in race mode.

As we were going to sleep the Rev said ....." fourth gear is forward right?", .."yeah, fourth is forward".........Come Wednesday morning we were up at sparrows and down to the lake .In the pit we checked the basics and rolled her up to marshalling. As usual the Rev was everywhere but hanging around the car , I got him belted in, with the general adjustment of the harness better than  we'd had it the day before with the catch centered better for the slightly lower seating posi. I stressed to him that he needed to "get into it early"....I didn't listen as he left the line, I raced back to take the Troopy......due to a change of arrangement at the last minute there was no way to avoid driving through the pits on the way to the return road...When we got down there the Colonel was waiting , " I think he broke it, he only pulled a hundred" ....we found him at the end of the GPS track, lost on the crunchies....he was very dull..." i put it in fourth, by the time I realised what I'd done it was too late so I got out of it and rolled through" he was shattered , I felt his pain.....we'd both driven three shades of shithouse and our pretty little car with it's new motor wasn't looking so great....... We went straight back to marshalling

As I sat at the start-line area I thought hard about what had gone wrong on my first run and what I had to do to. I had just scraped in on my 175 license so at least I could use the long track now....The seat felt better and I moved my head around trying to find a sweet spot off the roll bar padding and the head rest, most importantly I decided that I had to concentrate on staying in it, that I had to steer out of any wind effect and NOT back off, the peakier motor and no suspension mean that squirting the throttle means wheelspin and an unsettled ride.

I left the line and was on it from the get go, the car pulled very strongly  and I made the gear changes cleanly.....this time I was over 170 when I left the quarter and the car was pulling well with the speed increasing evenly. I passed the five mile and the GPS read 193, then 195 then 193 then 189...I had my foot in it still so I took this as a sign to get out........... I made it a mile or so off the track before missing a cone and going crunchy...I stopped and got out....the GPS read "top speed 195mph"...I was soup...exhilarated and exhausted ,I felt like yelling......but why did the motor go away , there was no noise, no oil light just a rather quick loss of power.

We thought about it. If it was windage and excess crank-case pressure we would have seen a rev-limit effect rather than the loss of power. We feel that the standard valve train is the cause as the hydraulic lifters will only handle 6250rpm for so long and then pump up holding the valves open. Other than that the ride was a little more "interesting" than it had been last year. Last year the track was really smooth and the car ran like it was on rails. This ride had a bit of wind in it and the track was much harsher. I fought the whole way down constantly steering back to the right in what felt like long carves with my foot on the floor……..

We whipped the cowl off and gave it all a look over when we got back to marshalling, it was AOK, it sounded good……we were fifteenth in line when they closed for the day.

The next morning the Rev told me he thought it would be better if I made another run for 200 rather than he repeating his ‘chute run , then he would go and if there was time have a crack at 200 himself. Anyone who shares a car will know that this was a fairly noble thing to do.

At the line for the third time I reasoned that I had to get going even quicker than I had the day before, to keep the ET down and see if the difference would get me over 200 before the lifters let us down…… I sat at the start and really concentrated, I paced a bit with my right hand going through the gear change routine……the night before the battery had given up, a motorcycle Odyssey type it was three years old, and dead….no-one had one with anywhere near the CCA we needed so the Colonel put an antenna base on the outside of the car as a hot contact so we could jump start her on the line without removing the cowl…… It all seemed to happen in a real hurry….one minute we were tooling about, next thing I jump in, we do the harness and then Cled waves us to the line, and signals me to go……. I nail it and aim for the right hand side of the track , the motor is wailing as I go into third at about 4 and a half, I change to fourth at about 5 grand and try to settle. The wind is strong and I feel like I’m crabbing….just as I hit the quarter trap my visor goes funny, like it was badly scratched, I think it may have been a bit of salt water from somewhere in the cab dripping into the air coming through the nose vent, whatever it was it meant I couldn’t see the GPS, or read the tacho…but I could see the track markers …..this was a pretty wild ride, I just kept my foot in it and steered her in long arcs fighting my way back to the right, in a straight line I had the steering quartered…I just figured I’d stay in it til the seven mile and so I did, I didn’t feel the power go down like I did before but to be honest I had a bit on my plate and some of the subtleties were lost amongst the noise , vibration and hairiness (NVH)………..Somewhere between the seven and eight I hit a rough bit of track and I think I got airborne, braked momentarily and got a little out of shape and then when I couldn’t see any cones I took the decision to pull off, then I saw the eight mile exit road, I lost track of that very soon after …the motor roll started once and then wouldn’t so I stopped…………I got out of the car and took my helmet off, the GPS read “top speed 195mph”….exactly the same as the day before, the clocks gave me an extra mile per hour, I reckon because I’d topped out a little earlier …..the Rescue crew took about a minute to reach me, they won’t tow or push so one of them helped me roll the car…I think he was a rugby player because he was as strong as an ox, we pushed the car about 400yards at which point I said “mate ,I’m going to die in a second”, then he ran back to the rescue vehicle and they called clear track….. I sat on the car , my adrenaline ebbing I realized we’d found the limit of the motor for this year…….it took about six minutes for the Troopy to catch up after various directions as to where to find me……….this time towing home I sat on top of the car with the canopy open….we had managed to keep the cab completely salt free but riding it like this meant the wind blew the flick up into the cab…but at least it was sort of bearable…..being towed over some of the return roads the day before had been excruciating……….. As I rode back sitting like a rodeo rider it occurred to me that I drove a shorter distance to work each morning.

As we pulled into marshalling again I noticed a drip of oil under the car and a smear of it coming from the front of the cowl, action stations…… We took of the cowl to find the front of the motor wet and the source seeming to be the front seal, where the oil pump is. The Colonel said ….” It’s all over, pack her up”

I felt awful for the Rev who’d handed me another drive at his expense and now we were packing up and he’d had one unsatisfactory run……

We’d put 32 mph on our best speed from last year, we hadn’t hurt the motor and we had plans for next year. It would have great to get to 200 but it was only our second year and lots of cars that had been knocking on the door got their 200 this year so it seems right that we wait…We met hundreds and hundreds of people, lots of them were fans of the car and had been following these build diaries, it is very touching some of the things people come up and say, we appreciate every bit of it .

The Reverend and I  worked our guts out for years building this thing but there are two people particularly that we need to point out have been instrumental. The Colonel makes it all work, keeps our feet on the ground and provides a necessary balance in the team between our personalities . Pete (PJQ) is our immaculate transport, he is there providing support and anticipates everything, we couldn’t do what we did without him and I’m never sure how to thank him.

We left first thing Friday and drove for thirteen hours, for thirteen hundred kilometers to my brothers house, we got home to Melbourne at 11am Saturday……yesterday I had a gig at a community festival ………..bring on 2011

 


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: landsendlynda on March 14, 2010, 09:06:56 PM
What a fantastic "End Tale" for an even more fantastic build!!  The hours of reading have been of unmeasurable interest!  But, I don't believe you've finished your story!  It sounds more like you are taking a break before starting your "next" book!!  So, kick back, grab some beer, relax, relive the moments, and then start the preparations for the next diary that won't be completed until this time next year!!  All of you have done a wonderful job and should feel proud of yourselves for all that you have accomplished!!

Congratulations again on a wonderful journey that took us all with you!!

Lynda


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 14, 2010, 09:09:08 PM
Doctor G., the only thing more exciting than the story itself is the elegant manner in which you tell it.  Bravo.

Rev, your selflessness is a model to us all.

Pete, Colonel - well done.

This is awe inspiring.

Sunshine rocks!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Buickguy3 on March 14, 2010, 09:36:42 PM
Great Build, and a great story. Too bad it's only once a year. Probably all that anybody can afford. Look forward to seeing some of you at Speed Week in Wendover in August. Look for the black Jag with the old Buick straight 8 anchor in it. We'll be flogging it again this year. Looking forward to the "Salt Talks" , also. We'll tilt a couple of brews. :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 10:56:04 PM
We visited the actual plane our tanks came from.

Can you believe that it is actually on the way, like really really on the way, as in you can see it from the road when you drive pretty much the fastest way from Melbourne to Lake G? I know this may not be significant coindence for many, but it just furthers that strange list we have for this project that somehow gives it an almost mystical tinge. (or is that minge?)

Yep, this is good old WH700 with its nose over the fence like a cow in a paddock. I think I'll pay tribute each year on the way from now on now that I know where it is and give its nose a rub.

(Also DrG tells me that the plane owner's cousin is in the DLRA. Now with a population of 20 million and a club membership now hitting a thousand, that is fairly long odds, even if his family are catholic. More co-inkydink?)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 10:58:46 PM
Wet (again) windy and cold.
Its like standing on a coolgardie safe.

The first couple of nights in the tent were freezing and if it weren't for the alcohol and fatigue I would have not gotten any z's at all.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:00:28 PM
Cold but pretty.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:03:24 PM
They say Melbourne is four seasons in one day, but lake G is up there too.
Hey, there's a ghost!!! greetings from down under


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:05:00 PM
Al Fountain bellytank $20 part fail ouch.

Very nice healey


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:07:02 PM
Brett destoop, 231mph on a water bottle he cast himself in his backyard, in an oven he made, with bodywork he made, leathers he designed, and dynoed on a machine he built himself. Doesn't drive a bike during the week, rather a water truck. Crazy lovely fellow with balls of steel. 231mph? Insane.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:08:35 PM
36hp contender, I belive they went 1 mph over the record? I hear that some US beetles are coming down here next year and the general consensus was that was a really good thing to have this mini event within the event.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:09:58 PM
Unlucky Norm Hardinge, ran on target for his 200mph but timing lights failed and the motor hurt. Bonneville this year for sure!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:10:57 PM
Us in the pits.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:15:52 PM
Pete (PJQ) doing his bit with the recovery services with the old troopy.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:18:10 PM
Good to see this diesel beheamoth back in town. Reminds me of the Eagle Lander in Space 1999 but what wouldn't I give to give it a body redesign with aero and style in mind.... anyone heard of Blastolene? Well they could eat their lunch!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:20:27 PM
Somebody gave us some tee shirts... and here they are! We have our tame German photographer's photos to come but these are a sneak peak... thanks greatly for them. (The front wheels are our transport wheels...)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:26:43 PM
These guys have bigger support vehicles than us, but then they have more paper methinks...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:28:07 PM
Rods.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 14, 2010, 11:29:45 PM
GMH Monaro finally bust through the 200mph mark, in fact around 212(?), well done, lovely looking thing too. This is a seminal Aussie muscle car and worth plenty on the street. I am really glad someone is using it for this event rather than mothballing it.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 14, 2010, 11:33:01 PM
Very nice healey
I was wondering if they were going to take a shot at Lake G.  Saw this car at WOS last September - in fact, it was what pushed me over the ledge to attend.  Beautifully prepared.  Any word on how fast they ran?  They were having supercharger issues at Bonneville.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 14, 2010, 11:44:47 PM
Somebody gave us some tee shirts... and here they are! We have our tame German photographer's photos to come but these are a sneak peak... thanks greatly for them.

That somebody( you blinkin' ingrate) would be Stainless ....... :-D :-D :-D and also thanks muchly to Sum as well for sending us the Bonneville 2009 shirts......


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 14, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Very nice healey
I was wondering if they were going to take a shot at Lake G.  Saw this car at WOS last September - in fact, it was what pushed me over the ledge to attend.  Beautifully prepared.  Any word on how fast they ran?  They were having supercharger issues at Bonneville.

I heard 189....that's pretty quick for that thing


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredeuce on March 15, 2010, 01:59:26 AM
We visited the actual plane our tanks came from.

Can you believe that it is actually on the way, like really really on the way, as in you can see it from the road when you drive pretty much the fastest way from Melbourne to Lake G? I know this may not be significant coindence for many, but it just furthers that strange list we have for this project that somehow gives it an almost mystical tinge. (or is that minge?)

Yep, this is good old WH700 with its nose over the fence like a cow in a paddock. I think I'll pay tribute each year on the way from now on now that I know where it is and give its nose a rub.

(Also DrG tells me that the plane owner's cousin is in the DLRA. Now with a population of 20 million and a club membership now hitting a thousand, that is fairly long odds, even if his family are catholic. More co-inkydink?)


Rev ,
Goggles is quite right about the cousin. That happens to be my good self. Have been trekking to the lake since 1999. Drove my old green '32 "roaster"  out there in 2005 /2006. Thats me. I spoke briefly with Goggles at your table on Thursday night. You were sitting there with Dirty Dave and Chris among others. Turns out Chris is  neighbour of my brother. He spoke with her briefly. What's that expression about six degrees of separation? May need to revise that back to two or three.   Quite amazing.

As for that Catholic remark I don't think so . I've spotted condoms in the cupboard. My conscience is clear, no guilt here. :-D


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 15, 2010, 07:14:01 AM
here's a pic of the car in marshalling taken by Greg Wapling who runs the club website and also handles time slips at the meet...

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/dlra2/2010/speedweek20100310-070.jpg)
you may notice the smashing pale blue leathers with the white stars...they belong to Brett de Sloop the new big name in 1000cc APSF he ran 232 and a bit on this , (another shot by Greg, ta mate)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/dlra2/2010/speedweek20100310-066.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: SPARKY on March 15, 2010, 10:33:54 AM
[We feel that the standard valve train is the cause as the hydraulic lifters will only handle 6250rpm for so long and then pump up holding the valves open.]

Geez  it sounds like it might have kept making 190 + laps all dy---well done guys!!!!!!!!


I forget what tires and gears you are pulling now--you might get more out of solid Rollers than a gear change!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: High Gear on March 15, 2010, 12:07:46 PM
Fine effort guys. Please be sure to visit us at Speed Week. Spirits of the Lakes E/FMS #569.

If all goes well we are still planing on going back to your meet again in 2011.

Did Rod Hadfield run anything, I saw your picture of his transporter?

Congratulations on your runs.

Gary


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 15, 2010, 03:50:15 PM
No Gary I don't think Rod had a steer this year..... I didn't see him in a suit ....

Sparky, 28's , 2.77.....solids and roller rockers, and more crank-case evac... and , and, and....a 10 bolt when I get my act into gear


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on March 15, 2010, 05:20:24 PM
Quote
Turns out Chris is  neighbour of my brother. He spoke with her briefly. What's that expression about six degrees of separation? May need to revise that back to two or three.   Quite amazing.

...we camped at Chris’ place on the way to the lake. Is your brother on the duck farm next door?



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredeuce on March 15, 2010, 05:48:38 PM
Quote
Turns out Chris is  neighbour of my brother. He spoke with her briefly. What's that expression about six degrees of separation? May need to revise that back to two or three.   Quite amazing.

...we camped at Chris’ place on the way to the lake. Is your brother on the duck farm next door?


Short answer no. The duck farmers I do know however as I have some professional dealings with them and also their grandparents live across the road from me!

My brother lives to the north of Chris. You can't see his house from the road as it is behind the hill. His driveway is just before the sweeping corner at the top of the hill as you drive out to Chris' place. Blink and you miss it.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 15, 2010, 06:10:53 PM
We stayed at Chris's and Dirty Dave's too. Beautiful place with Dave serving sensational steaks.

Thanks Chris and Dave, that was a highlight of our journey.

Dik


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on March 15, 2010, 06:55:07 PM
As a bit of background for the viewers at home, the Spirit of Sunshine is surrounded by a group of like-minded blokes... the word team doesn’t really fit, more like a collective of strong-willed nutters that click together easily. We stay in touch during the year, travel to the lake together, occasionally help out with separate projects, and definitely share the highs and lows of this sport and life in general.

We all ride motorbikes (except for The Rev) and share a couple of other things in common.
Lack of money, streetwise smarts when it comes to building things, and a deranged, but fierce, determination to succeed.

Please bear with our enthusiasm for one of the bikes running 230+ MPH. Although we’d all acknowledge the Booza as a great bike, none of us are in a position to own one or have the inclination to do so. The bikes in this group are old enough to qualify for Historic racing and there’s a constant state of re-build in backyard sheds with bits fabricated, borrowed, scrounged, or won on ebay for $6.80 plus delivery.

The tank is the only car in the group, and the 230 bike was a 72 Suzuki GT750, built as described to 1000cc. That’s just background stuff to set the scene, not meant for anything else.

** a Team works together cohesively as a unit. Getting any three from this group to focus on one job is like herding cats.


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on March 15, 2010, 07:41:50 PM
I just wanted to add that Big Gaz and I also got to get properly acquainted with Lord and Lady Dirtington (Dirty Dave and Chris) and also count this as a highlight of the trip!

Lynchy


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 15, 2010, 07:45:07 PM
GMH Monaro finally bust through the 200mph mark, in fact around 212(?), well done, lovely looking thing too. This is a seminal Aussie muscle car and worth plenty on the street. I am really glad someone is using it for this event rather than mothballing it.

Hey
Not fair
I drive mine occaisonally
G


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 15, 2010, 09:56:07 PM
Yes you do and it is a beauty, certainly no trailer queen.

And on that note I would like to say that you are no trailer queen either, you do what you do.

Continuing on from what Pete said about teams it is indeed a herd of cats we have here but one that seems to work.

For those not in our team, Graham aka Colonel Grumm has been on this project with us from day one. Although he might not have put as many hours into each weekend that we have that is because he hasn't have to; he has years more experience than us with breaking engines and crashing things so he doesn't need to witness our trial by mistake.

Dr G and I are of the mindset that we need to go down every path to figure out why something is done (or more accurately why it is not done) in a particular way. All along the Colonel will say a simple statement which typically turns out to be the best solution, but we will go our own way working out why every other way doesn't work until we understand the logic of his solution.

He was the donor of our original Buick engines, masterminded our move to VN commodores (and gave us one of those too) provided the VW steering solution and the rack itself, the diff, the porting, the wiring and his expertise at the salt has kept us going when things started to break on a number of occasions each year.

So I would like to say a huge thank you and say we definately could not have done it without you.

I would be honoured to assist on your approaching Salt Lake build and running in any way I can.


Dik



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 15, 2010, 10:04:16 PM
And as mentioned before, Peter Quick (yep that's his real name) has also become an invaluable friend and team member. He had started his Lakester build prior to us and met each other at our first visit to the lake (drawn to our campsite by the sonerous but eery tones of Deadbolt-scariest band in the world (their words not mine)).

Pete has for the past two years taken on the tough task of towing our vehicle the 3000km round trip to the salt with his troopy and been on call as recovery vehicle. On top of that he has provided us with tools, advice and culturally significant diversions to keep us going.

Now that your lakester build has started again (found a new workshop location) you can be safe in the knowledge that you have plenty of favours to draw upon.

Here is a photo of Pete at the lake doing his best bird watcher impersonation:

Thanks again Pete.

Dik


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Freud on March 15, 2010, 10:31:22 PM
As a proper key carrying member of the KILO KLUB at Bonneville, I offer, without the sanction of the Mayor of the

KILO KLUB, an invitiation to stop by for a get acquainted session.

Ya can't bring that scantly clad dude to the 'otel because Sherry would be shocked at indecency. The rest of us

would find some tasks for him to keep him out in the sun while we have an educational conversation.

We will be in the same location most of the time so the responsibility of hookin up falls to you nomadic vagrants.

This offer will be extended again before August. You will be shunned at Salt Talks if u don't check in with us first.

A key carrying member of the Kilo Klub


der FREUD


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on March 16, 2010, 03:30:50 AM
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_u0_IOr1cg0w/S58_-I9d8dI/AAAAAAAAAKg/IZKmSsQi77w/s800/SOS00.jpg)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_u0_IOr1cg0w/S58_-SaPbpI/AAAAAAAAAKk/xnT1x94M6T4/s800/SOS01.jpg)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_u0_IOr1cg0w/S58_-ZbOAOI/AAAAAAAAAKo/5S1NtfPBaEw/s800/SOS02.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on March 16, 2010, 03:32:44 AM
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_u0_IOr1cg0w/S58_-txbdPI/AAAAAAAAAKs/h5SkSuZB_nQ/s800/SOS03.jpg)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_u0_IOr1cg0w/S58_-_umCTI/AAAAAAAAAKw/AxfljoLfVyw/s800/SOS04.jpg)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_u0_IOr1cg0w/S59APf2jThI/AAAAAAAAAK0/tCyAEh32q5o/s800/SOS05.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: PJQ on March 16, 2010, 03:33:31 AM
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_u0_IOr1cg0w/S59APh_s5yI/AAAAAAAAAK4/iatItOWcG98/s800/SOS06.jpg)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_u0_IOr1cg0w/S59AP8luNTI/AAAAAAAAAK8/_3mX1MWOFZc/s800/SOS07.jpg)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: grumm441 on March 16, 2010, 03:56:55 AM
Yep


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Kiwi Paul on March 16, 2010, 06:23:11 PM
Very well done, everyone. Freud, since it looks alot like me reclining in the chair in your Kilo Club photo, can I be a member too? (I think the Rev and Dr should join ahead of me though, as their achievements outrank mine considerably.....)


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 16, 2010, 07:51:11 PM
I'm probably not the only one who looks at that photo of a little shade tent in the middle of a vast salt lake and thinks......"YEAH!!!!!!"....that's my idea of a really relaxing week...... thousands, sorry millions...actually more than likely BILLIONS would fail to see the attraction but not me.... some binoculars, a lot of ice, a radio and a banana lounge....oh yeah and someone to drive me to dock each night....Can't promise when I'll get there though fERD...........................

I spent some time in the shed last night...started unhooking the motor, getting ready to haul it out. Took off the water tank ......cleaned a bit of the aluminium stuff with phosphoric , the inner moons and other bits and pieces come up nicely with a mild solution and a scotchbrite........that red dust mixed with a little bit of oil......ain't nice stuff it kills your hands and stains everything but most of all nothing siezes things quicker ...even the handle on my big bottle jack stuck.....

I believe it could be a military weapon If you dropped a shipload of that red dust on hi-tech equipment that would be the end of it.......it's a super-galling compound and it's conductive


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: fredeuce on March 16, 2010, 08:11:46 PM

I spent some time in the shed last night...started unhooking the motor, getting ready to haul it out. Took off the water tank ......cleaned a bit of the aluminium stuff with phosphoric , the inner moons and other bits and pieces come up nicely with a mild solution and a scotchbrite........that red dust mixed with a little bit of oil......ain't nice stuff it kills your hands and stains everything but most of all nothing siezes things quicker ...even the handle on my big bottle jack stuck.....

I believe it could be a military weapon If you dropped a shipload of that red dust on hi-tech equipment that would be the end of it.......it's a super-galling compound and it's conductive

Dr. G,
You need to look at the oil/red dust compound from the glass half full perspective. This is the bush mechanic's loctite! A whole new marketing opportunity. :wink: :wink:


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Reverend Hedgash on March 16, 2010, 08:32:05 PM
I know a pessimist that drowned in a half empty bath...


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 16, 2010, 09:09:24 PM
I know a pessimist that drowned in a half empty bath...

Half full - half empty?

Depends on one's perspective -

Are we pouring, or are we drinking?



Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 16, 2010, 10:45:36 PM
I know a pessimist that drowned in a half empty bath...


and yet his friend the optimist barely got himself wet.............

In other breaking news The Colonel just put himself on the market...there's a certain bike shop that is gonna be a bit short for a while........


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on March 22, 2010, 02:37:09 AM

Did Rod Hadfield run anything, I saw your picture of his transporter?

Gary

Rod ran at least one run on the GPS track in the light blue wagon, if it wasn't him, he has a twin. :-D

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on March 22, 2010, 02:48:32 AM
It's killing me guys, what the h*ll was happening in this one?

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/grahaminaus/Speedweek%202010/SpeedWeek2010241.jpg)

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 22, 2010, 04:45:47 AM
we was trying to get some nice shots, as requested, of us's wearin' Stainless's shirts...... and looking at the shot this would be before we thought to put the bus in gear and we were doing the treadmill on the tires.....two of us with bung legs ..................it was going to end badly....no we weren't tanked......we can thank GrahaminAus for the shot above


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Rob on March 23, 2010, 04:21:18 AM
Thanks Doc,

Sounds better than it looks and yep, Graham's pic. He's good on the camera but don't let him "adjust" your tent  :roll:

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Australian Belly Tank
Post by: Lynchy on March 23, 2010, 05:33:46 AM
If they all ran really fast in th