Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA Rules Questions => Topic started by: willieworld on July 01, 2010, 01:38:49 AM
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if i came to maxton with my 1000cc sc-pg bike how many classes could i actually run in without changing anything ---could i run 1000cc sc-pg and pf and pbg and pbf then move to the 1350 class and do the same thing then to the 1650 class and do the same thing or am i misreading the rules thanks willie buchta
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Willie,
You have figured it out, you can run your Weeeellll ona Steeeeeek in 1KSCPG, 1KSCPF 1650SCPG, 1650SCPF and then repeat as necessary, however do not go in to the class Unlimited-Partial-Streamlined-Fuel-Class as that record even though was set with a stock Hayabusa several years ago at 175+ mph is now reserved for "Streamliners" only..any questions please PM guthery.
J
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With a sidecar you can run SC; but otherwise yes you can move up in cc's and/or classes with power adders that you don't have installed. Year end championships have been won that way.
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of course this rule does no apply at Bonneville where you can only run in the cc class that your bike actually is.
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i understand bonneville and el mirage ---let me see if i understand maxton---i go there with my 1000cc sc-pg and run sc-pg sc-pf sc-pbg sc-pbf and do the some in 1350cc 1650cc 2000cc 3000cc thats 16 records --would i have enough time to do that at a 2 day event---and will the ecta honor my scta logbook and my scta engine seal thanks willie buchta
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Yes, Willie -- you can run the 16 (or whatever) classes, although whether you'd have enough time to get 'em all in is only a maybe. Yes, ECTA will use and honor the SCTA logbook -- they use mine each and every time I compete there. As for engine seals -- with all due respect, the ECTA doesn't measure engines, but rather runs on the premise that a racer won't cheat (we sure hope) just to get his name in the record books. If you do cheat, how are you gonna to look at yourself in the mirror - knowing that you aren't honest. If you arrive with a sealed engine we'll most likely bring other racers, from the ECTA, over to your bike to show them just what is an engine seal. I've shown my logbooks with the "Engine sealed by Tom Evans" notation, just so they see what we're talking about.
So -- maybe I should offer some room in my trailer after we're done this fall at Bonneville, and bring your bike back to this side of the world. It's be easier for you and Sheri, right? And you could race at Maxton. Yes, then there's the hassle of getting your rig back to Modesto for the winter - but we'll worry about that later.
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I think you could do the 16 at a June meet. Otherwise 10-12 runs could be done at the other meets. You will have to do a rookie pass @ 125, but if its on an open/low record, it will count. Sunday close to noon the starting line gets bear, so you may fit 5 runs in from noon to 2pm (that may get you your 16 runs). don't forget you can ride your bike from the finish to impound, and then ride it to the starting line.
They sell gas right at the track so you don't run out. What do you think... a whole year of elmo racing in 2 days, sorry no "galatic records" thou :-D
Bill
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I think they ought to give out something special for open records -- maybe a yellow hat or something. And the SCTA and ECTA ought to publish them all as Open -- so you don't have to spend time searching them out to run on them.
Stan Back
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The open or minimum class records are available in the El Mirage Procedure manual or on the SCTA website under the El Mirage tab.
DW
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i would rather have 1 record that stood for 20 years as to have 100 records that were to fall next year---at el mirage if you are racing for the points championship you have to run in the same frame class all year and you cant change engine classes at a single race--1 race 1 class ---there no open records --if no one has set the record then there will be a minimum ---points are for your fastest run of the meet---if you run under the record ( or minimum ) the run is divided by the record then multiplied by 200 ( run 123 record 126 = .9761 X 200 =195 points---if you break the record ( or minimum ) you get 200 points + 25 + 1 point for every full mph over the record---also we compete for starting line position --the person with the most points runs first at the next meet --and club points ( 12 clubs competing ) there is much more but i got to get back to work willie buchta
thanks dan you saved my typing finger
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That's true, Dan.
But at SpeedWeek this year there're almost 20 MC entries running on Open records with no minimums. And some of them ran in the past few years on practically the same Open records with only, say, a Gas or Fuel change.
I guess the goal is to ruin the cherry picking for future generations.
Stan
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I think they ought to give out something special for open records -- maybe a yellow hat or something. And the SCTA and ECTA ought to publish them all as Open -- so you don't have to spend time searching them out to run on them. Stan Back
Gee wiz Stan . . that would spoil all the fun. :-D Besides it isn't that difficult. Heck, I can do it so how hard could it be.
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I absolutely refuse to run on an open record !!!! :-D That is until I find one I can legally run in LOL
At Loring late this month, because I will be running my "E" motor,, I think they are all open Records for all the E Classic Altered Records,,,, But I will say my goal is to set those records a minimum of 10 MPH above the Mile Records at Maxton...
I have never run a 1.5 mile course,,, I am just guessing that the extra 1/2 mile should yield 10 more MPH ?
Anyone from Maxton who ran last year at main please join in and let us know how many MPH you picked up in the 1.5 mile vs the 1 mile ??
Thanks
Charles
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i would rather have 1 record that stood for 20 years as to have 100 records that were to fall next year---at el mirage if you are racing for the points championship you have to run in the same frame class all year and you cant change engine classes at a single race--1 race 1 class ---there no open records --if no one has set the record then there will be a minimum ---points are for your fastest run of the meet---if you run under the record ( or minimum ) the run is divided by the record then multiplied by 200 ( run 123 record 126 = .9761 X 200 =195 points---if you break the record ( or minimum ) you get 200 points + 25 + 1 point for every full mph over the record---also we compete for starting line position --the person with the most points runs first at the next meet --and club points ( 12 clubs competing ) there is much more but i got to get back to work willie buchta
thanks dan you saved my typing finger
Good points Willie. Let me add that comparing the points system (Elmo and Maxton), championships (Elmo and Maxton), records for open classes (Maxton and Bonneville) is an interesting exercise but that does not imply that one is better, worse or whatever. There are good reasons for the differences. You have pointed them out. El Mirage has competition for starting positions. Maxton does not. At Maxton it really is no advantage to have a start position and run earlier in the meet. The conditions of the racing surface are virtually identical for all runs. (concrete being more durable than dirt). And . . as you said, El Mirage has club points championships. Maxton does not.
One plus to ECTA allowing us to run-up in class is that after a record is set in what was previously an open class it has somewhat the same impact as there being a class minimum. Example in point . . . When I set my ECTA record in an open class (H/BFSS) at 126 mph I got 352 points. (100 for setting the record plus 2 for each mph over the old record (126 - 0 = 126) Consider what would have happened if, the year before, the recordholder in the next lower class (I/BFSS - 118) had decided after setting the I class record to change classes and run in H/BFSS. If he had run 118 mph he would have set the H/BFSS record at 118. Then I come along the next year and run 126. Yes I do get the record, but I only get 116 points. (100 for the record and 2 for each mph over the old record (126 - 118 = 8 )
That other racer, by running up in class, effectively set a 'new minimum' for H/BFSS. So you could argue that (in a way) running up in class helps to level the playing field for the points chase. Of course this only works when the vast majority of open records have already been picked off. . . . . In the mean time there are opportunities for someone willing to 'game the system' to really rack up a ton of points in one year.
imagine if someone showed up the first meet at maxton next year with a real honest to goodness top quality A/Gas Streamliner (open record) and for the five events that year run A/GS in March, A/BGS in April, A/BFS in June, AA/GS in September and AA/BGS in October. (all open record classes) If they run 250mph each event, that is 600 points per meet (100 for the record and 2 for each mph over the record (500) for 600 per meet and 3000 for the season.) The highest total car points for the previous five seasons at Maxton never exceeded 2000. In the streamliner example they could take the championship runnin only 4 events and maybe only 3 events. (that leaves more open records for the next season)
Not good or bad, . . just how it is.
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Maybe setting one record a meet? Leaving open and attainable records for the rest of the folks will bring new people into the sport.
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I have several Records at Maxton,,, When I decide to run against one of my own records I run against my fastest record.... When I run in a class I don't have a record in, I try to run in the one that best fits my car for that day hoping I can do well... I try to configure for the lowest record that I don't have, but sometimes I just run for fun.
I have a few friends that run in theE Classic classes as welll,,,,There are one or two records well below the speeds that I normally run. I have left them alone so those cars can try to up each other.. as they bump the record and or top out,, then I may go after them later..I left those records alone in 2009 and so far in 2010..
No I am not a nice guy LOL,,, just let those guys the chance to duke it out and make some points and get some records.
Hope to see a bunch of my ECTA friends in Loring
Charles
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I can legitimately say that I've been the "Victim" in the running up in motor class at Maxton -- but I don't bother to complain about it. That's the way it is. Maybe I'd be happy if it changed, but now it's too late -- some other bike has the record that I think should be available to me.
The case is that a bike entered a certain class which would be considered its "base" class -- that is, the class it fits into at any event, even an SCTA event. They bike ran well, and the next few classes were "open" -- larger engine sizes hadn't run that class. So the bike was entered into the next bigger class, set a record, moved to the next bigger class and got the record, entered again in the next even bigger class and got the record. You get the idea, right?
Well -- one of those classes where the bike was using the "run up in size" rule happened to be the base class for my bike. But wait -- even thought nobody with an engine my size had run that class -- the class had an established record. And a pretty danged high record, too. So I've got two choices -- either run my own bike up in class 'til I find a record that I can take, under the rules -- or squeeze more out of my bike 'til I can run faster than the record in my "base" class.
It's frustrating, but those are the rules and I'll abide by them. That doesn't say that I like them -- just that I'll work to set a new record under those rules.
Further deponent sayeth not.
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SSS, I can see your point and I can see the point of running up in "engine class" as well...
If I take my N/A 255 cu in Gas "E" motor and run faster than a 305 Cu In "D" motor or a 370 Cu In "C" motor,,, oh well !!! How could the larger engines complain ??? as long as the car is legal for the body style class...It just seems OK to let a smaller engine move up as they are handicapped by less displacement...
Now I have never run my E up in D or C,,,, but I have run it in E Fuel (which it does qualify for) and in E Blown Gas and in E Blown fuel...(but I don't have a blower, so that is considered up in class)
I like the ECTA rules (cost more to run for those up in class records with the class change fee, but that gives us all more classes to run in and the club more needed revenue) Good for All as I see it.... no down side unless my gas motor runs faster than your blown motor !!! :cheers: :cheers:
Charles
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Jon.....have you checked your PM's
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O.K. Maybe I'm getting confused with the letters, but I thought we could no longer run across frame classes nor power adder classes. e.g. If my bike is a M/G, I can only run up classes in cc and flip from gas class (with event gas) to fuel class with an unsealed tank. I can not run MPS, nor M/BG (F), nor Altered, etc...
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I believe, but you need to check with Turk/Timney, that you can change across frame classes. i.e. if the car is a true GC, then you can run Alt, cc. Check to be sure.
I actually like the rules and open records at Maxton because it encourages and allows newcomers to get into it when they see an attainable record that they can set. Once we get them hooked there is no backing out though...
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Doubt it makes you feel any better Jon, but I imagine a lot of folks got depressed when they saw the Evo run 220+ with a 2.0 motor. They sure set the bar high and can probably bump up quite a few more. Costs an awful lot more $$$$ to take on those records on 4 wheels too! I am a little torn on the subject. I think the folks running up in engine classes and setting those open records at ;east get a target in place for the new folks thinking about coming in.
If I could only have one change, it would probably be separating the inline 4's from the twins and triples. There are a lot of bikes out there that would be fun to run and it is a little bit of a shame that you can't compete 'realistically' for records with them. Of course I also have a fantastic Ducati shop about 5 blocks from my house that I would love to work with chasing records someday! :cheers:
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O.K. Maybe I'm getting confused with the letters, but I thought we could no longer run across frame classes nor power adder classes. e.g. If my bike is a M/G, I can only run up classes in cc and flip from gas class (with event gas) to fuel class with an unsealed tank. I can not run MPS, nor M/BG (F), nor Altered, etc...
Thats what I thought also. I heard that the only way to run in a blown class was to have some type of turbo/blower on the bike. Apperantly this is not true because the points race this year will be won by a team that ran a motor bike in a blown class so they could take the open records before their blown competitor could get the points. :roll: Smart move, but......
Also, to run from a M or A class to a MPS/APS there does need to be a change, but thats easy, a peace of tape takes care of that. Atleast that's what I think the way it is.
Bill
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If I could only have one change, it would probably be separating the inline 4's from the twins and triples. There are a lot of bikes out there that would be fun to run and it is a little bit of a shame that you can't compete 'realistically' for records with them.
Separate the classes based on the number of cylinders?
What about bike colors...Blue bikes would get a 10 mph handicap and Grey bikes would be penalised since Grey is faster?
What about manufacturers..perhaps give Ducati, Maico, Norton racers an advantage as well?
This is called LSR and it does not stand for Low Speed Racing... :wink:
You either build a race vehicle to go as fast as it can (perhaps no records) go or you choose to use the best racing platform to go the fastest speed you can in the class to get a record....you do not complain about running a Vtwin OHC like a VRod in the 4 cylinder classes that has to compete with the Hayabusa powered bikes...perhaps a class for the three cylinder bike..?..get in where you fit in...if you don't fit in you will have to be happy making your XYZ 350 be the fastest one in the world however it just may not have a record in the books.. :cheers:
Hopefully this will get the heat of Bob Bakker :-D
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that should do it willie buchta
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I know it will be very hard to believe........BUT I agree with you John N......You want to go fast, buy and build the fastest.....regarding colors..Red is the fastest.....
PS. John, you are getting me in trouble with the ECTA family....I was told to stay away from the ECTA site.
Oh my, Oh my
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John N.....I really do like you...I really do....I really do.....I really do....You are my "sidecar" HERO....
218mph ( and the engine was measured and legal)
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John N.....I really do like you...I really do....I really do.....I really do....You are my "sidecar" HERO....
218mph ( and the engine was measured and legal)
And it really had a blower/turbo on it as well.. :-D
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that should do it willie buchta
:wink:<~~~~~~~~~~~Twitches the baited hook
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Top of page 9 in the rulebook:
With the ECTA only, vehicles may legally run in higher engine categories for their class.
Engine categories for motorcycles are
P, PP, PB, PV, G, PG, VG, UG, BG, PBG, F, PF, VF, UF, BF, PBF, VBF, O in conjunction with CC’s.
- Running an unblown bike in a blown class is considered running in a higher engine class. No change necessary.
- Running a pushrod bike in a non pushrod class would be running higher. (not that anyone would want to do that)
- For gas vs fuel you MUST have the gas seal in the gas class. We pull our gas seal when running fuel class even if we don’t change our actual fuel. I’m not sure if that’s a must do since fuel should be considered a “higher” category from gas. I’ve never had to answer that one, I just know we pull the seal because it seems like the right thing to do.
- Changing between open & partially streamlined requires a change.
- Changing between modified & altered requires a change.
- In regards to “tape” for changing between body categories, if the use of tape in some configuration renders the bike illegal for modified/open but legal for altered/partial streamlined then that’s all it takes. It doesn’t “have” to be pretty as long as it doesn’t fly off and/or deform on the track! One of the many uses of duct tape!
I won’t attempt to answer for cars but the scenario is the same you just need to apply it to your proper corresponding categories.
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deb could you move from the sidecar class to the streamline sidecar class and then to the streamliner class thanks willie buchta
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deb could you move from the sidecar class to the streamline sidecar class and then to the streamliner class thanks willie buchta
Only if you make the necessary body changes.
In order to run in the streamliner motorcycle classes, with or without the sidecar, you must adhear to the roll cage, firewall, fire suit.... rules.
So, if you build a big fancy cage you could slide your rig into and bolt/weld it all on per the rules you probably could do it but that's a heck of a lot of work!
A traditional motorcycle with or without a sidecar is not allowed to just "run up" without change into the streamliner classes.
(we'd love to have you run on our turf & set up our baseline records in those open classes! The sooner we fill up the classes the sooner we can have a "true" points chase! :D As it stands now we're up to almost half our top ten finals in points being achieved only on existing records! I haven't checked the status for this year yet!)
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I believe, but you need to check with Turk/Timney, that you can change across frame classes. i.e. if the car is a true GC, then you can run Alt, cc. Check to be sure.
I actually like the rules and open records at Maxton because it encourages and allows newcomers to get into it when they see an attainable record that they can set. Once we get them hooked there is no backing out though...
I think moving from Gas Coupe to Altered requires a change. (granted it isn't a big change - something like taping over headlights) Same goes for moving to Comp Coupe which would require something like a stretched nose or full belly pan. In short to move 'up' in body class requires the car to be changed to be a legal car in the new class. From what I understand this is pretty much true for all venues/clubs.
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thanks deb i think i have it now---i have to stay in the same frame class but i can change motor classes as long as im moving up ---to change frame classes i would have to make the changes to fit that class--------i understand why ecta does it that way ---the scta (at el mirage ) sets minimums for every class where there is no record---some of the minimums are high and it will be a while before they get broken--- just 2 ways of doing the same thing --hope to see you at bonneville willie buchta
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Two questions . . .
How much do one of them records cost?
And can you do it by mail?
Stan
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Stan, you've made your point -- frequently. Might I ask you to try to stick to a helpful and respectful attitude when you're posting in thread having to do with subjects or topics with which you don't agree? Once again I say that I'm trying to keep this site - this Forum -- running as a valuable resource for ALL racers, not just those whom you happen to agree with. "Dissing" folks or organizations doesn't add anything to the interchange -- other than letting us know that you don't like some particular item.
I'm sending this to you in the open -- not a private message -- because I hope EVERYONE sees and understands my concept of being helpful and not argumentative just for the sake of arguing. Please do not take this as the owner's disobeyance of his own request to keep pi**ing contests private and not on the Forum. We all can learn -- I hope.
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thanks deb i think i have it now---i have to stay in the same frame class but i can change motor classes as long as im moving up ---to change frame classes i would have to make the changes to fit that class--------i understand why ecta does it that way ---the scta (at el mirage ) sets minimums for every class where there is no record---some of the minimums are high and it will be a while before they get broken--- just 2 ways of doing the same thing --hope to see you at bonneville willie buchta
:cheers: That's the spirit, I feel like you do get it!! I like this post, makes me happy! :)
We look forward to seeing you guys at Speed Week and maybe someday in Maxton!
Debbie
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I am guilty in running up in class ,I was 2nd & 7 in points in two years.The truck who was 1st ran up in points I did the same.None of the records in /mp are very high.I ran with in the rules.The members have voted on this rule many times and want it.If they change I will play with in the (new) rule.It is what it is and it beats drag/stockcar racing.
terry
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Two questions . . .
How much do one of them records cost?
And can you do it by mail?
Stan
I assume you offered this post in good humor and with a smile. I'll be happy to answer with my own experience.
Net cost for my record that was set against an open record was about $1700.
It cannot be done by mail.
To do this I noticed a car on ebay that I was interested in buying (Street driven modified 89 Suzuki GTI). I looked at the Maxton records list and saw that H/BFSS was open. I bid and won the car. ($5400 with tax and tags) Bought a plane ticket, $250, flew to Flordia, Paid the sales tax drove it home via Washington DC to Pennsylvania. Registered and insurred it in my state. Added a tachometer ($150). Drove it over 300 miles to Maxton (sept 2008) entered the race ($100 for early registration) Set the record on first pass at 114 mph. Upped it to 126 mph second run. Made three more runs (all slower). Drove it 300 miles back to home. (cost of food fuel and lodging not included because I would have gone to that event without the car anyway to volunteer) In July 2009 sold the car for $4200.
Record was 8 mph faster than record for next lower class (I/BFSS) and was 3 mph faster than record in H/BGSS held by Tom Bruch. For the one or two people that read this far there is more detail in the build section - under 'Beltway Bandit'
So far the record still stands.
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Never mind, It's not worth the bandwidth...
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And I am not allowed to post.........
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And I am not allowed to post.........
Name: bak189
Posts: 288 (0.694 per day)
Position: Sr. Member
Date Registered: May 14, 2009, 12:20:15 AM
Last Active: Today at 10:57:03 AM
Ignored by: ALL ECTA members
:-D
Bill
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See I told you.........
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i understand bonneville and el mirage ---let me see if i understand maxton---i go there with my 1000cc sc-pg and run sc-pg sc-pf sc-pbg sc-pbf and do the some in 1350cc 1650cc 2000cc 3000cc thats 16 records --would i have enough time to do that at a 2 day event---and will the ecta honor my scta logbook and my scta engine seal thanks willie buchta
Please don't think I am picking on you Willie. I am not.
BUT I would like to see a show of smiles :-) from everyone that said they where going to come to Maxton and take a bunch of those records.
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BUT I would like to see a show of smiles :-) from everyone that said they where going to come to Maxton and take a bunch of those records.
LOL, I am one person you will never have to worry about unless I hit the lotto. From my place to Maxton is 2540.09 mi one way, and it would take 37 hrs 10 mins of driving time. So round trip would be 5100 miles, and 6 days of driving 12 plus hours a day. Just gas and hotel rooms would cost $1697.
Compared to El Mirage for me is 180 miles round trip, and 0 hotel rooms, equals $42 for gas and 3.5 hrs round trip.
Tom G.
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you are picking on me---if you read my earlier post you will see i said i would rather have 1 record that would never be broken than a hundred that will be broken next year---i have never been to maxton to race although i passed near there a couple of years ago on a motorcycle trip---i would really like to come to maxton and race and set a record but high enough so i wouldnt have to come back every year and defend it ---lets see a big smiley face from all of the ecta members that are thinking about coming to el mirage and racing in the dirt on a 105 degree day willie buchta
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you are picking on me---if you read my earlier post you will see i said i would rather have 1 record that would never be broken than a hundred that will be broken next year---i have never been to maxton to race although i passed near there a couple of years ago on a motorcycle trip---i would really like to come to maxton and race and set a record but high enough so i wouldnt have to come back every year and defend it ---lets see a big smiley face from all of the ecta members that are thinking about coming to el mirage and racing in the dirt on a 105 degree day willie buchta
All us ECTA people would race Elmo if it was closer. See desotoman's post for the reason we don't (in reverse), oh and add... 1 or maybe 2 runs only for all that travel also.
Mojave Mile is close to you, run there under ECTA rulings just to see how you would do in the mile.
Bill
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Going and racing in Maxton.....we certainly have the time....we certainly have the transportation.....
we certainly have the sidecars.......we certainly have the money......BUT we certainly do no race without a passenger.......PLUS will the family except our entry?.......PLUS I could get a ride in Eds sidecar....
(been there done that....and I have the balls) BUT than no.. passenger allowed at ECTA However, this old man
(73) would need to see a insurance cert. from Ed that all passengers in his sidecar are insured.. at my age one needs to cover it all.
I don't expect a reply.....as I am being ignored
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you are picking on me---if you read my earlier post you will see i said i would rather have 1 record that would never be broken than a hundred that will be broken next year---i have never been to maxton to race although i passed near there a couple of years ago on a motorcycle trip---i would really like to come to maxton and race and set a record but high enough so i wouldnt have to come back every year and defend it ---lets see a big smiley face from all of the ecta members that are thinking about coming to el mirage and racing in the dirt on a 105 degree day willie buchta
Come to Lake Gairdner Willie,plenty of records there for the picking....no points to worry about,no minimums ,no fire ants , no dust....um..actually there's a 100 miles of it on the way in..... it was 110 when Noonan was there :-D :-D
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you are picking on me---if you read my earlier post you will see i said i would rather have 1 record that would never be broken than a hundred that will be broken next year---i have never been to maxton to race although i passed near there a couple of years ago on a motorcycle trip---i would really like to come to maxton and race and set a record but high enough so i wouldnt have to come back every year and defend it ---lets see a big smiley face from all of the ecta members that are thinking about coming to el mirage and racing in the dirt on a 105 degree day willie buchta
I did not mean to pick on you really. I did read you post .Having a record to high to reach is the dream.
I would Love to go to el mirage I can take the heat and I love to race.
It is just that I have seen so many people including myself that looked at the record book and said . I would just go down there and set a record. It took me a year to get a soft one. 16 records in a weekend would be a record by itself.
Bak189 I wont ignore you . At 73 there is to much to learn from you to risk ignoring you . Sorry you cant ride along at Maxton .But you would be welcome if you did come to race.
When I move to New Zealand I will only be able to race at Lake Gairdner.Unless they have a 2 mile runway no one is using.
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"Mojave Mile is close to you, run there under ECTA rulings just to see how you would do in the mile."
I must have missed the memo. Did Mike say he was going to use the ECTA book and record database?
DW
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"Mojave Mile is close to you, run there under ECTA rulings just to see how you would do in the mile."
I must have missed the memo. Did Mike say he was going to use the ECTA book and record database?
DW
Thats not what that quote says.
Bill
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you are picking on me---if you read my earlier post you will see i said i would rather have 1 record that would never be broken than a hundred that will be broken next year---i have never been to maxton to race although i passed near there a couple of years ago on a motorcycle trip---i would really like to come to maxton and race and set a record but high enough so i wouldnt have to come back every year and defend it ---lets see a big smiley face from all of the ecta members that are thinking about coming to el mirage and racing in the dirt on a 105 degree day willie buchta
I did not mean to pick on you really. I did read you post .Having a record to high to reach is the dream.
I would Love to go to el mirage I can take the heat and I love to race.
It is just that I have seen so many people including myself that looked at the record book and said . I would just go down there and set a record. It took me a year to get a soft one. 16 records in a weekend would be a record by itself.
Bak189 I wont ignore you . At 73 there is to much to learn from you to risk ignoring you . Sorry you cant ride along at Maxton .But you would be welcome if you did come to race.
When I move to New Zealand I will only be able to race at Lake Gairdner.Unless they have a 2 mile runway no one is using.
Racer..
The slowest class your 250 could race in at Elmo is 134+ (PP) unless you run in the sidecar class which is only a record of 125+ in th SC-G class, what is the record at Maxton for the gas class in a two wheeler class or even a side car class? At Elmo the AD (air density) is rarely better than 2,400 feet, and often over 4800 feet.what is the elevation at Maxton on average?
J
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John I have the wrong bike for the SCTA.
As you know two stroke and four stroke engines are not run is separate classes. I have three choices .1 get a two stroke engine,2 make my four stroke engine faster than a 2 stroke.Or 3 don't race out west.I look at all the possibility's I like number two the best.So I hope to see you on the salt some day.
117mph is the Gas speed to beat. 119 is the fuel speed to beat at Maxton. I just went 112.3 in the heat. So I need 23 more MPH for that PP record . :-o What dose PP mean at El mirage?
What is the MPS 250 Fuel record at el mirage? would it be APS-F 250 at 163mph? That is what I would chase.
Maxton is 235 ft above sea level.
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Willie,,, I am not certain,, but it would seem you would/could make more HP here at Maxton than at Elmo, at least in April, May, Sept and Oct.. maybe June too !! (In June we battle the high heat as you also do at Elmo, but the high Humidity is the real problem).
Come on out in Sept ot Oct... I will save you a spot in the pits ...
Happy 4th..
Charles
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racer x--this may come as a surprise but the ecta rulebook is a duplicate of the scta rulebook with very few exceptions---thats a good thing we can race at different tracks without any changes---p-p is production- production unless its p-pp then its production -production pushrod----the record in p-p at el mirage is 134.029 held by fellow club member mark anderson--there is no M class at el mirage --if you are interested go to www. scta-bni.org on the home page you will find minimums - records -el mirage procedures---sheri and i do the website for our club the gear grinders there are over 1000 pics posted www.thegeargrinders.com hope that answers your questions willie buchta
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It is said that you cannot run up in class at Speedweek.
I am not a bike guy so I have to switch this over to cars.
Let’s say I have a 300 cui engine that would put me in D class which goes up to 305 cui. I hope I got that correct, if not I am sure I will be set straight in a positive way. :roll:
If I go to Speedweek with this vehicle in C class and break a record, when they pump the engine will it be looked at that it is too small for that class? I thought it was being looked at if it was too large for that class.
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charles its gets very hot at el mirage ive seen it over 110 degrees in july the corrected altitude there is between 2500 ft and 5000 ft --- 0 humidity --very dry AND DUSTY ---if i had to guess ---lower altitude there--more humidity there --higher altitude here --lower humidity here --1 mile there concrete ---- 1 1/3 mile here dirt --- i think i could run as fast at maxton as i do at el mirage 1000cc---sc-pg 135.364---1000cc---sc-pf 141.296
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Don, a 300 cu in engine is a D and only a D.... at SCTA as I read the rules you must run in that motor class only...
If you run E you are to big, if you run C you are to small,,, either would disqualify you...
At Maxton the D motor can run D and UP Motor Class as long as you meet the body class.... you may not run Down to a smaller class...
Charles
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charles its gets very hot at el mirage ive seen it over 110 degrees in july the corrected altitude there is between 2500 ft and 5000 ft --- 0 humidity --very dry AND DUSTY ---if i had to guess ---lower altitude there--more humidity there --higher altitude here --lower humidity here --1 mile there concrete ---- 1 1/3 mile here dirt --- i think i could run as fast at maxton as i do at el mirage 1000cc---sc-pg 135.364---1000cc---sc-pf 141.296
Willie,, I agree and even think you would run FASTER here at Maxton... The only way to know is come on out... FYI.. even on a busy Sept or Oct... you should get 3 to 6 runs on Saturday and 4 to 8 runs or more on Sunday
Charles
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don a D engine is 261 to 305.99 cu in displacement --your motor would have to be in that range to be a D motor---too large no record--to small no record __and 300 more dollars to switch to the right class if you have made a run willie buchta
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Yes I understand all of that, the question is, Is it really checked? If it checks out that it is 305 do the inspectors say nope no record your engine is too small?
Not plannning on doing this, seems a hard way to get a record.
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don if you claim a record and i turns out you are in the wrong motor class not only will you not get the record but it will cost you 300 dollars to change to the right class and you will have to go back through tech----and yes they will check your motor size unless it is sealed --to get it sealed though you will have to have the displacement checked willie buchta
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racer x--this may come as a surprise but the ecta rulebook is a duplicate of the scta rulebook with very few exceptions---thats a good thing we can race at different tracks without any changes---p-p is production- production unless its p-pp then its production -production pushrod----the record in p-p at el mirage is 134.029 held by fellow club member mark anderson--there is no M class at el mirage --if you are interested go to www. scta-bni.org on the home page you will find minimums - records -el mirage procedures---sheri and i do the website for our club the gear grinders there are over 1000 pics posted www.thegeargrinders.com hope that answers your questions willie buchta
Thanks for the links.
I do know the ECTA and SCTA rule books are duplicates of each other. But for the separate class for two and four stroke engines. I have a Four stroke in a four stroke class. My bike is far from production. .I did not see a M or Modified class at El Mirage . So I guess I would have to go altered partial streamline class .That record is 163 .I would need 110 hp to go that fast.
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there is no M class at el mirage i cant find the record 163.1 on the scta website willie buchta
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there is no M class at el mirage i cant find the record 163.1 on the scta website willie buchta
The 163 I found on the El Mirage record book. I would guess I have to run APS-F 250 to use my bike with nitrous.I do care about records .But I would just like to see what my bike would do at different tracks. One thing for sure .I would use an air filter out there.
http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/records/EM_Records.html
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Density altitude at Maxton last Saturday -- 26 June -- was, according to Joe Timney's weather station, a bit over 4,000 feet. All of us N/A racers were pleased when we ran anywhere even NEAR a record speed.
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Density altitude at Maxton last Saturday -- 26 June -- was, according to Joe Timney's weather station, a bit over 4,000 feet. All of us N/A racers were pleased when we ran anywhere even NEAR a record speed.
I was more than pleased .I was giddy. Or maybe it was the heat. :cheers:
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silly me i was looking in the gas class--- on the ecta site i was looking through the run logs for june and
noticed there was a bike running # 7 ---all of us scta and ecta get our numbers from the same place--there is a block of numbers reserved for the ecta---at el mirage there is a year long (6 races) battle for overall champion --club champion ( 12 of those ) starting position and anyone who finishes 1 through 25 can run that number the following year --they cannot sell or let someone else use that number---the scta has been in business sense 1937 the club i belong to the gear grinders sense 1938 the # 7 finisher in 2009 was erik hansson car # 132 should have exclusive use of that number for the 2010 race season thanks willie buchta
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Bike 7 or B7 is Madcap racing .An altered Partial Streamline four stroke 250 that went 116 all motor in the heat of June. That was last years 7th place finisher.
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Willie,
The bike in question is entered as number 7-B
Not 7 and not B7
I am not certain how bike numbers work, but for cars the ECTA gets the numbers from SCTA and assigns to us..
ECTA I think has a block of 9000's assigned,,,, I asked for older retired numbers and the ECTA and SCTA folks worked it out for me,,
my car numbers are 806 for the Vicky and 805 for the Stude I also have 1806 for the next project (unless 804 or 807 come up as open next spring)
Charles
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the scta controlls all of the numbers for both the scta and the ecta --i saves a lot of confusion --i will repeat what i said earlier ---that numbers 1 through 25 are reserved by the scta for the top 25 finishers at el mirage --you cant just make up a number and put it on your vehicle--all numbers are assigned so that there are no 2 vehicles wirh the same number--all bike numbers are followed by a B ---not on the bike but on all of the paperwork --if you have a trophy from the scta on a bike the number will also be followed by a B just some thoughts willie buchta
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ECTA: the top 10 cars and top 10 bikes from the year prior may choose to run their finishing place as their number the following year.
hence the 7-B
it is not a made up number but is authorized and recognized by the ECTA
for several years the Black Busa SC rig was running 1-B
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followed by the letter B --i get it but i dont think that will fly at bonneville or el mirage all of the bike numbers there are followed by the letter B on the paperwork http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/ELM%2010/June/results/page.htm willie buchta
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ECTA: the top 10 cars and top 10 bikes from the year prior may choose to run their finishing place as their number the following year.
hence the 7-B
it is not a made up number but is authorized and recognized by the ECTA
for several years the Black Busa SC rig was running 1-B
That is Toms rig that Bob Moreland of the SDRC built a few years ago, it is like ours however has the wheeel on a steeek on the left side for the right hand turn and turn out at Maxton.. :cheers:
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Willie,
They assign the "B" so that everyone knows it was a bike, streamliner, sidecar etc... :cheers:
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The ECTA numbers 1-10 only apply at the ECTA track (and possibly the LTA track since I don't think they run points but you'd have to ask the LTA folks on that). Any ECTA racer that has earned, by way of year end points standings, the right to run the 1-10 number had to do so with an assigned official number recognized by all the organizations and tracked by Chuck/SCTA.
My assumption is that the ECTA folks should not be attempting to use their track earned 1-10 numbers elsewhere & should revert back to their original "SCTA" number. I'm not sure if that is actually written anywhere but I would think if one attempted to run a 1-10 ECTA number at an SCTA event that they would be notified that they don't "own" that number there & would by default revert back to their "owned" number.
By the same token I don't believe the ECTA would allow an SCTA racer to use the 1-10 number at the ECTA track & would require them to use their assigned SCTA number. SCTA doesn't recognize ECTA points & vice versa.
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im a little slow but i got it now thanks deb willie buchta
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Now that all the "accounting" is done and clarified :-D :? :cheers: :cheers:
I sure hope everyone had a safe and happy 4th...
Now we all begin the final preperations for the July, Aug and Sept events..
Good luck to everyone...
Charles
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Willie,
Thanks for asking for clarification about my using #7-B on my bike at ECTA last meet to make sure I wouldn't have problems if I tried to run it elsewhere. As Deb said I only get to use it at Maxton and on all my paperwork I still include my official LSR #9688 in parentheses to avoid confusion later. I have only been doing LSR for 3 years and I was thrilled to earn 7th in the points last year with this bike that I constructed. So I rewarded myself with putting the number on the bike for this year. My main goal has been earning records and now increasing the speeds of those records. But the points chase does put a twist on the timing of the attempts since there are no longer any open records for an Altered 250-4 stroke bike.
Boy this LSR total package thing (designing, building, tuning, and running it) is even more fun than the previous bike competition thing I did- AMA Desert Racing my Honda SL100 in California in 1972-77. Oops, my gray hair is showing.
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you did good dr j the best ive done at el mirage is 9th in 07 that year we had about 275 competitors and they are a tough bunch hope to see you at maxton one day willie buchta
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"...run there under ECTA rulings..."
"Thats not what that quote says.
Bill"
When I read this I thought that the ECTA rulebook was now in effect at the Mojave Mile. And while at it why not use the ECTA record database, both events are the same length.
If that is not what you wrote Bill I apologize for my mis-understanding.
DW
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No need to apologize.
I just ment if he wants an idea of what be would run in the mile, under LSR rules, just set the bike up for Maxton rules and run it at Mojave. For his information only . Guys do it at Miami and TX, no record to be had, but good practice.
Anyway, I would guess the Maxton records could only be used as a national base but not track base. Maybe in the future...
Bill
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OK, got it.
DW