Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: holdfastgreg on April 14, 2010, 06:05:03 PM
-
Well as always, life has a way of serving up the good with the bad; been making extremely slow progress on the home front. I'm waiting to sand blast my engine pieces (was painted previously,) find a competent machinist who isn't going to Fiat up my jugs/head - for some reason no one likes the idea that my motorcycle is old and British, and finally I'm still hunting down front ends for the bike and figuring out the frame (need adjustable rear suspension - would prefer nitrogen and a disc front end.) Did I mention I'm not building this all out of a small kitchen and bedroom in a downtown apartment (think no space!!!)
I guess this happens sometimes...
-
I think more people fit under your description than you realize. Sinks were built to wash engines, right? That dresser is an engine stand, right? It always takes more time than you think it will.
You may not make the first race, or the second, but eventually you'll get it fired up, wipe the oil off the kitchen floor, and put it in the trailer and go.
If they made houses for men instead of women, we would have a one bedroom house with a seven car garage.
-
You know, I look back at my build diary, and I had all these plans to be on the salt in August (2009?!?!), and it wasn't until today that I finally got my crankshaft back from the shop.
But I go through other build diaries and I see a lot of cars and bikes started, and then we never hear from them again.
The build diary thing is a double edged sword, but I encourage you to start one. You make your public statement, and then you either do it, or you don't. Plans change, but if you document your progress, you will be surprised at the encouragement you will receive, and it will give you a great opportunity to document for yourself the progress you HAVE made. I have found that reviewing what I have gotten done in a public forum has inspired me to get my arse back out to the garage and get something else done, even if it's small.
Hotshue, the guy building the Bonneville Bugeye, wrote "Every screw has to be turned by somebody". Take it one screw at a time, and while you may not be racing this year, you will eventually wake up one morning, put the bike on a trailer, and head out to Maxton, or Loring, or the Texas mile, or Bonneville, and you'll be glad you followed through.
Don't let the idea that you won't make it this year discourage you. Get done what you can, purchase what you can afford when you can afford it, but keep the ball rolling.
One other thing – if you can't find somebody who can help you with a Brit bike on this forum, you're not studying it very closely. It's not all Busas, Studes and Big Blocks. A PM to any one of them would probably be returned with more information than you asked for. That's been my experience.
I understand the discouragement, but don't lose sight of the end goal. It's a worthy one.
Cheers, Mate.
Chris
-
I've put a couple of cars together over time and I think the one thing that kept me going was not worrying about finishing the whole car. Divide the project into segments (chassis, body, suspension, engine, etc.). And then when you finish one part you can sense and enjoy the success. We know I'm not a great philosopher (or much else, either), but this apporach worked for me.
Stan Back
-
I'm more discouraged about not racing than I am about building things (hell all I own are motorcycles - I've got my riding fix but its not the same as being on a track or competing!!) It is also a wee bit discouraging not being able to find a trust worthy machine shop in North Carolina without driving three hours....I've had my parts at two different shops that race prep Craftsman truck series motors and neither of them in the end felt comfortable to have old parts on their machines (in fear of messing it up and having to find me new stuff that might not exist.)
I've got a website I use for my updating, blogging and etc; the guy doing it should finally have it sorted it out soon.
Thanks for the encouragement guys, hopefully soon I can make some headway.
-
My best advise - call Todd Dross at Twin Jugs Racing. He has connections with some of the best in the world. He's in Fredricksburg, VA so it's a bit of a drive but not out of the question.
Best of luck
Dan
-
One thing nice about a motorcycle engine is that it's cheap to ship. I actually bought a 948 cc Austin Healey Sprite block on e-bay, and it was shipped to me via US mail. :-o
The poor girl in the office couldn't believe it.
"So Chris, what's in the box?", she asked.
"An engine for my car", I replied . . .
It's a lot easier than trying to balance it on the seat of a motorcycle.
I know it's nice to talk face-to-face with the folks you're working with, but you can usually ferret out the the good guys from the dolts by chatting with people who have dealt with both.
-
You need to come down to Maxton with, or without, a ride next month. There are several folks there running Brit bikes and few talking about building one. There are usually Triumphs, BSA's and Nortons running and I wouldn't be shocked if you found someone within 60 miles to help you out. If it makes you feel any better, I had similar problems finding shops interested in working on my Ninja ex500 as most focus on parallel twins. Eventually I ended up working with a shop within 15 minutes of where I work and shipping the head and cams to vendors that worked with the old twin.
One shop that I was pointed to that is closer to you is Lee's Performance in Charlotte. Not sure how they feel about Brit bikes but they would have taken on the 500 if I wanted to go long distance.
-
You need to come down to Maxton with, or without, a ride next month. There are several folks there running Brit bikes and few talking about building one. There are usually Triumphs, BSA's and Nortons running and I wouldn't be shocked if you found someone within 60 miles to help you out. If it makes you feel any better, I had similar problems finding shops interested in working on my Ninja ex500 as most focus on parallel twins. Eventually I ended up working with a shop within 15 minutes of where I work and shipping the head and cams to vendors that worked with the old twin.
One shop that I was pointed to that is closer to you is Lee's Performance in Charlotte. Not sure how they feel about Brit bikes but they would have taken on the 500 if I wanted to go long distance.
I made a scheduling mistake with this past weekend - thought Maxton was this coming up weekend. Regardless I got to tie up some lose ends on a few bikes for friends and got them riding into the sunset. Will be there regardless and will probably end up volunteering as well. Would love to find some people going to Bonnie and make it out there as well - been told to go and watch first before you race it.
I'd like to see what everyone else is running as far as vintage bikes are concerned. I've got everything parts wise to rebuild the engine minus a new oil pump and ignition (might run stock for the break in period and than swap into a Morgo - which means i need to vent the cases)
Within the time frame of me posting this, my sand blaster died. Guess I'll wont be bead blasting anything soon!
-
Dan Stokes gave you wonderful advice.
You can trust Todd Dross: COMPLETELY.
Even if he doesn't do any work for you, ask and he shall answer.
If he isn't doing any English stuff, he will direct you to someone reliable.
BELIEVE ME.........
When it comes to build diarys, I have had some experience. MARLO TREIT'S STREAMLINER in Landracing.com build diary's and
www.target550.com pictures section.
I don't get much feedback but it's being done by a con sumate professional and he really doesn't need a lot of outside direction,
but you will be pleasantly surprised at the IMMEDIATE assistance u will receive following the stating of a problem or an
opinion regarding any equipment that you may need. These readers are your very best friends. Give them a chance and
feed from the support they so willingly extend to you.
Take the calendar off of the wall and replace it with a build list. As you mark off each item time will be standing still but you will be
accomplishing your desired goal. When it's done you can replace the build iist with a Playboy Calendar.
It's cheaper to slobber on a Playboy Calendar than to buy an extra set of cases because you hurried.
FREUD
" too old to slobber and too dumb to build an engine, but very capable of drooling"
-
Greg, some of us have experience with the old Brit stuff and we can give advice.
-
Greg, I know how you feel , I started my build march 'o6, after having a few ideas swimming around in my head for a while,,I did'nt get a timing slip until march '10 , and the bike only has ONE cylinder.
It's all here,,,,
http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=556
Tiny (in OZ)
-
Thanks for the reply guys - gotten enough motivation back to try to fix my pressure pot so I can sand blast my case halves and get them measured out. Still need to find a machine shop thats worth a damn (prefer not to send stuff out but I might have to.)
Anyone know where I can find a reliable set of BSA/TRI disc front end? If not I'll continue running my Honda setup.
-
Greg, Do you know Rex Floyd in Rolesville, NC? I can't find his card right now, but I'm going to be at a shop that keeps them this weekend if I can't find him in the phone book. If it's old and Brit, Rex either has it or can get it and if there's a problem he's probably fixed one. Todd at Twin Jugs is still an incredible genius but Rex is right here.
I push a '05 Bonneville so you definitely won't be the slowest. Come on out and show 'em they can be fast.
-
Found it---Rex Floyd 919/630-5789
Specializing in Triumph, BSA, Norton, BMW & "Whatta-you-got?"
Tell him Ken sent you and he won't have any idea who you're talking about unless he sees me.
-
Will check that shop out, its a haul from here but if hes good its worth it!
On a brighter note, today when to get on my daily rider A65 and it wouldn't start - got a new battery - than the gas tank broke (petcock sheered off inside the bung. Well life happens I guess.
-
Hang in there. We have been working on a lakester in my basement for 9 years. Hope to see the runway late this year however. I have it extreamly important to have at least one person involved in any built. Helps keep up the interest and motavation.also two opinions on any problem seems to help getting it resolved quickly.
-
Greg
Don't give up, you definitely are not alone!! You may not realize it, but every one of the racers on this forum have hit the same wall you are bouncing off of now...(sorry guys, I know you don't like the reference to "hitting" things), they, like you, have had discouraging setbacks in their builds. Look in the build diaries, read them, everyone has had some unexpected complication. In fact, look at Cajun Kid...Charles has worked long, long, hours to get his new Stude ready for racing, but at the last minute, she wasn't ready. Take your time, build your "Baby" the way you want her to be. Forget the time line, just take each step, each day, each everything, one at a time. If you can't race, then volunteer, it still keeps you close to "the Family" and we can all help keep you encouraged. You've come too far to quit now, so it looks like it's time to put away the depression. Look at what you have accomplished, that's progress!!! What is the next thing you can do while saving up money for the next big expense? Even if the only thing you can do is sweep the floor around your build, it's something!! One of the smartest things you did was open this thread, you haven't lost momentum, you just needed some outside support and that's what we're here for!! We won't leave you stranded and we won't let you give up!!!
Keep working! Keep trying!! You can do this!!
Lynda
-
Greg, Marlo has been building the Project 550 mph streamliner for 11 years but it's almost done. Many projects take time. You can do it and you won't be sorry in the end.
:cheers:
-
Greg,
What are you building? Triumph, BSA etc? What year? What class? Do you plan on only running on the east coast?
Although a big fan of 60's Japanese bikes, I'm starting to warm up to the British iron and a few are creeping into the collection. I enjoy putting around on a '49 C11. I have a fellow restoring a '53 B31 for me. I'm seriously considering an 850 Commando when I get back home from Saudi.
As others have said, don't give up. Whatever you accomplish now, will just bring you closer to race day.
Cheers,
Scott
-
Greg, you mentioned an "A65" as your daily rider in a recent post. I am not sure what you are using for the land speed engine. Let's say you came into my shop years ago.
First I would say "The BSA twin is a good street engine and it has success in hillclimb and dirt track. It is not a good engine for LSR. The Triumph twins are much better for this use. They have two cams that can be independently and accurately timed to give optimum performance. The pushrods are shorter and lighter and the valve/rocker/pushrod geometry is better. They will rev higher and not toss a pushrod. The lubrication system is much, much better. There are far more performance parts, tuning experience, and books available for the Triumph. It is possible to put a Triumph motor in a BSA frame and make a TriBSA."
Next, I would mention "Standard operating practice on any BSA or Triumph twins that I build is to have the engine blueprinted before any performance work is done. The crankcases, crank, cylinders, and cam(s) will be sent to a machine shop. The machinist will make sure that the crankshaft axis is parallel to the cylinder deck, the cam bearings will be line bored, and the cylinders will be bored so their axes are perpendicular to the crankshaft axis. No performance work will be done on an engine that is not blueprinted." British machining was awful in those days.
Next, I would say "Triumphs and BSA's blow apart a lot due to errant spark. The spark happens at the wrong time at high rpm. Standard practice for performance engines is to install roller bearings on the shaft that rotates the points cam. Best is to install the roller bearings and a pointless ignition. The aluminum connecting rods these bikes use are somewhat marginal. Steel rods and forged pistons are a must for high rpm motors, for either BSA or Triumph, and I like to have the crank balanced for the rods and pistons." I recommended these things but did not insist on them.
Then I would say "The build I recommend is a hot street cam, slightly more compression, porting, and larger intake valves. The BSA engine, especially, has a weak power transmission system and big horsepower causes problems. The taper where the clutch attaches to the tranny main shaft is a weak point." There is legitimate solution to this problem but it was expensive and I do not recall what it was. My mickey mouse solution on my race bike was to spot weld the clutch basket to the shaft. I ground off the weld when I wanted to pull the basket.
There were more little tricks that I cannot recall. The Triumphs could be made to go fast and the record books show it. None of those are engines I built. Mine went into cafe racers and choppers. I long ago gave away all of my Whitworth and special tools and the machine shop is long gone. The advice I gave people is still valid. I hope it helps you.
-
Greg, you mentioned an "A65" as your daily rider in a recent post. I am not sure what you are using for the land speed engine. Let's say you came into my shop years ago.
First I would say "The BSA twin is a good street engine and it has success in hillclimb and dirt track. It is not a good engine for LSR. The Triumph twins are much better for this use. They have two cams that can be independently and accurately timed to give optimum performance. The pushrods are shorter and lighter and the valve/rocker/pushrod geometry is better. They will rev higher and not toss a pushrod. The lubrication system is much, much better. There are far more performance parts, tuning experience, and books available for the Triumph. It is possible to put a Triumph motor in a BSA frame and make a TriBSA."
Next, I would mention "Standard operating practice on any BSA or Triumph twins that I build is to have the engine blueprinted before any performance work is done. The crankcases, crank, cylinders, and cam(s) will be sent to a machine shop. The machinist will make sure that the crankshaft axis is parallel to the cylinder deck, the cam bearings will be line bored, and the cylinders will be bored so their axes are perpendicular to the crankshaft axis. No performance work will be done on an engine that is not blueprinted." British machining was awful in those days.
Next, I would say "Triumphs and BSA's blow apart a lot due to errant spark. The spark happens at the wrong time at high rpm. Standard practice for performance engines is to install roller bearings on the shaft that rotates the points cam. Best is to install the roller bearings and a pointless ignition. The aluminum connecting rods these bikes use are somewhat marginal. Steel rods and forged pistons are a must for high rpm motors, for either BSA or Triumph, and I like to have the crank balanced for the rods and pistons." I recommended these things but did not insist on them.
Then I would say "The build I recommend is a hot street cam, slightly more compression, porting, and larger intake valves. The BSA engine, especially, has a weak power transmission system and big horsepower causes problems. The taper where the clutch attaches to the tranny main shaft is a weak point." There is legitimate solution to this problem but it was expensive and I do not recall what it was. My mickey mouse solution on my race bike was to spot weld the clutch basket to the shaft. I ground off the weld when I wanted to pull the basket.
There were more little tricks that I cannot recall. The Triumphs could be made to go fast and the record books show it. None of those are engines I built. Mine went into cafe racers and choppers. I long ago gave away all of my Whitworth and special tools and the machine shop is long gone. The advice I gave people is still valid. I hope it helps you.
I should promptly state that I am a BSA fan; not that Triumph's aren't better, BSA's just found a special place in my heart. Second, I had the choice of building a Triumph or BSA twin, and thus decided with the A65 for numerous reasons. I already have a daily rider A65, I have the tools and documents for them and more or less have a good feel for the motor. I felt when doing this land speed deal that it was less about the record or the 'time to beat' and more about racing the bike and figuring out how to overcome all its shortcomings. It would be meaningless if I just purchased a new bike and tweaked it to beat world records - whats the fun in that? To me, the only thing I have to beat is the bike and when I overcome all its shortcomings than I'll feel I did something important regardless of the time I set.
So far in the build everything is torn apart and I'm sitting on fresh parts:
10.5:1 pistons, STD
MAP billet rods
Megacycle 400 degree cam
SS valves
Titanium springs
1 pc pushrods w/ new tappets
Britgaskets.ca full twin gasket set
Will need:
Ignition
Belt drive
32mm carbs (eventually, 30s are fine for the break in period.)
As for the bike in general, will be racing in the 650cc modified and partial streamling classed (push rod.)
Going to wake up early and get some more work done before its too late.
-
Greg,
I like your thinking...work with what you got, work with what you like.
There are lots of folks running fast with engines that might not have been considered the best choice for racing.
Please post some pictures of you build if you get time.
-
Greg,
I like your thinking...work with what you got, work with what you like.
There are lots of folks running fast with engines that might not have been considered the best choice for racing.
Please post some pictures of you build if you get time.
Will do! I have a website dedicated to all my fiasco's but apparently the guy building it is in no hurry. I haven't figured anything out frame wise yet...figured that'll come when the motors done.
-
Greg, I share your affection for the A-65. I built both Triumphs and BSA's for people, but my bikes were always the A-65's. Post some pix. This seems like an interesting build.
-
A properly build A-65 BSA engine will beat a Tri. anytime.........my BSA powered roadracing sidecars would easily out run and beat Triumph powered outfits in the "old days".......but you got to know what you are doing........