Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: Johntsi on February 02, 2010, 07:04:58 PM
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I know you have to use the one site fuel or bring it in a sealed container and have them approve it pay the fuel guy and then it can be used. My question is would e85 be allowed in this class if brought in the sealed 5 gallon container, or would it only allow pump gas and race fuel?
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E85 is considered Fuel Class... 85% Ethenol.... not Gas ??? I think I am correct... but not certain,,,
Gas class can only use "event" gas,,, or "approved gas" in a sealed container.
Charles
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How much is event gas? I know such things are subject to change, just looking for a ballpark.
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And to follow up on what Charles said -- I'm not a car rules guy, but I assume that if you're in production class of any kind (supercharged or not) you'll need to run event gas.
Prices are in the $8-15/gallon range, I think I remember, with the "fancier" fuels costing more than the "plain" ones.
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Plan on $9 to $15 per Gallon
100 octane to 116/121 octane is normally at the track
(at least 4 flavors to suite our needs)
Charles
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I Know who you are, and what you are trying to do.... :-D
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,5636.0.html
David Buschur said, hey run E85, the Alcohol cools the intake charge and turbo's love it! Above is the link to my discussion of the topic for my truck.
Problem is E85 is Fuel, not Gas, Gas has specific properties the SCTA test's for. I've never seen an engine pumped, much less Gas checked at an ECTA Meet but there is that integrity/honesty thing.
Second Problem there isn't a "Fuel" Production Supercharged Class, since "Production" Cars don't "require" fuel. (I'm sure some people would argue that).
Look forward to seeing ya'll in April!
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And while we are on the subject, if I run a gas class where it requires a sealed tank, how do I go about draining my tank beforehand to get all of my old fuel out?
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I will bring a sealed container of Import if I want to run Production Supercharged it looks like, I can swap over to E98 to run in BFSS after that.
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There you go John, ECTA does have a Class!!!
As far as draining the tank, Before I found out I had a drain Plug in my Tank, I used the Electric fuel pump. Then there is the High School method, Siphon Hose!
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I will bring a sealed container of Import if I want to run Production Supercharged it looks like, I can swap over to E98 to run in BFSS after that.
where are you buying E98 ?
Roy
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As far as draining the tank, Before I found out I had a drain Plug in my Tank, I used the Electric fuel pump. Then there is the High School method, Siphon Hose!
<<<<<<<<< Highschool kid
:-D :-D
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Don't forget to be like #42.... don't inhale during the process :wink:
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I will bring a sealed container of Import if I want to run Production Supercharged it looks like, I can swap over to E98 to run in BFSS after that.
where are you buying E98 ?
Roy
Buying it 4 55 gallon drums to the pallett at a time since its cheaper that way. $1103 for 4 drums shipped out of Ohio, comes to about $5 a gallon, still much cheaper than import.
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I posted this in the other thread but figured it may get more attention here.
Production supercharged says you have to have wipers. That just means linkage and motor right? I certainly don't want the arms and blades on at the speeds I hope to be seeing. And do I need to bring the arms and blades with the car if this is the case? Also about the radiator in that class when it says stock, it means stock location not a stock radiator right?
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In answering your questions, we must once again look at the intent of the rules.
The Production Category is intended to represent typical transportation vehicles, which may be purchased from ANY automobile dealer for sale to the general public.
Also, Please be aware that starting January 1, 2010, all entrants in this category must have pictures of the car as produced, with their log book for certification purposes.
Production supercharged says you have to have wipers.
That just means linkage and motor right?
If the rules state that wipers are require, then that is exactly what it means (although in my quick reading of the Production Category rules, I did not see any mention of wipers specifically).
Also about the radiator in that class when it says stock, it means stock location not a stock radiator right?
The rules state that the radiator must be retained in the stock location and be of the same year and manufacture as the body.
Production records are subject to approval and will be certified only after comparison with the manufacturer's specifications for the model entered. The entrant is required to provide suitable documentation.
Without trying to upset you (which is not my intent), it really appears to me that you are trying to build a Land Speed specific racecar with every competitive advantage you can manage and then try to race it against unaltered production street cars that anyone can buy at a dealership. I just do not believe that that is going to be allowed.
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SCTA Rulebook, 3.U Windshield wiper blades and arms MUST be Removed! all classes..
Don't see anything about Radiators in Production category rules....
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Oh and better recheck the ECTA Rulebook, 5.H.1 Under BFSS, Nitrous is the only allowed Fuel, Alcohol and Nitromethane are NOT permitted....(bummer dude)
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Car can be ran on VP Import for the fuel class so that doesn't bother me. I will look at that rule though.
The car is not being built as a land speed car its actually original intent was to drag race, it is being built to fit the rules for LSR however. The radiator has to be of the same manufacture of the car? I see that rule in other classes but have seen the cars at Maxton carry, afco, fluidyne, sirroco, griffen and other brands of radiator in the stock location and unless I missed something none of those companies produced those cars. Hell the radiator in this car from the factory was not produced by Chrysler or Eagle? The current radiator is in the stock location and stock configuration.
Every competitive advantage? Not really. I have not touched aero, I have put the stock tank back in the car and removed the rear pan I made for aero. We have 2 cars here that are full weight cars with stereos and are daily drivers that would fit into this class and no one would complaint about astetically. They run 9.70s in the 1/4 mile @140mph but are street cars because they don't require all the safety equipment it would require to run in this class and pass tec. Putting in the required equipment to go over 200mph isn't gonna make any car much of a production car.
And no I am not uspet, I would rather know now instead when I show up. I have however been racing in other forms of motorsports for sometime and people always build cars to the rules, I was unaware here if done so people would attempt to say that yes it meets the rules but it is beyond what was intended. If that where the case call it a stock class and say no modifications allowed.
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I posted this in the other thread but figured it may get more attention here.
Production supercharged says you have to have wipers. That just means linkage and motor right? I certainly don't want the arms and blades on at the speeds I hope to be seeing. And do I need to bring the arms and blades with the car if this is the case? Also about the radiator in that class when it says stock, it means stock location not a stock radiator right?
As far as the wipers go, you have to be able to use them but the wiper arms and blades are not supposed to be on the car(too dangerous).
I just talked to joe Timney and he says as long as it is in the stock location an aftermarket radiator is within the rules (for production).
John is not trying to gain an advantage with a radiator, it is just alot safer to run an aluminum radiator than it is to run a plastic one that has the end tanks sealed with o-rings.
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In answering your questions, we must once again look at the intent of the rules.
The Production Category is intended to represent typical transportation vehicles, which may be purchased from ANY automobile dealer for sale to the general public.
As far as I know it is the rules that are the guide line in any form of racing that I have ever seen and it's your prerogative to build your car however you want within the rules. If you want to go with the way the class was intended you do that, but if it's a competitive class you will get you a-s handed to you if you aren't building to the rules.If you are just running for the fun of it why get upset when someone builds a car within the rules and goes faster.
If you can't tell we aren't trying to cheat, we go out of are way to make sure we are within the rules so that no can claim that we are cheating.
Don't get mad it's just a little ol 4 cylinder, what kind of trouble could it cause.
Also, Please be aware that starting January 1, 2010, all entrants in this category must have pictures of the car as produced, with their log book for certification purposes.
Production supercharged says you have to have wipers.
That just means linkage and motor right?
If the rules state that wipers are require, then that is exactly what it means (although in my quick reading of the Production Category rules, I did not see any mention of wipers specifically).
Also about the radiator in that class when it says stock, it means stock location not a stock radiator right?
The rules state that the radiator must be retained in the stock location and be of the same year and manufacture as the body.
Production records are subject to approval and will be certified only after comparison with the manufacturer's specifications for the model entered. The entrant is required to provide suitable documentation.
Without trying to upset you (which is not my intent), it really appears to me that you are trying to build a Land Speed specific racecar with every competitive advantage you can manage and then try to race it against unaltered production street cars that anyone can buy at a dealership. I just do not believe that that is going to be allowed.
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My interpretation of the radiator rule is to keep you from having an areo advantage by running a different size. i.e. 32 Ford roadster with a Fiesta radiator.
To understand some of the rules you have to look at all the years of cars involved and the rule eliminating the possibility of someone getting an unfair advantage. While you may be building a 2000 something someone else may be building a 1960 something.
Keep reading the rulebook, discussing your ideas here and guidance comes.
Geo
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For Lawson Bilhardt's t-bird to run ps-classes we had to instal the stock gas tank which is flat and smoths out the air under the car.
You seem to be on track with you build.
terry
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As far as I know it is the rules that are the guide line in any form of racing that I have ever seen and it's your prerogative to build your car however you want within the rules. If you want to go with the way the class was intended you do that, but if it's a competitive class you will get you a-s handed to you if you aren't building to the rules.If you are just running for the fun of it why get upset when someone builds a car within the rules and goes faster.
If you can't tell we aren't trying to cheat, we go out of are way to make sure we are within the rules so that no can claim that we are cheating.
Don't get mad it's just a little ol 4 cylinder, what kind of trouble could it cause.
Mike, firstly, please do not make posts with your comments within my quote, as that makes it appear that your comments are actually mine ... and I get into enough trouble by myself, without any help from others !!
Thanks.
:-D
Secondly, I was attempting to assist John regarding rulebook questions in response to his questions and they were directed to him, not you. The quotes that I provided (below) are verbatim, right out of the 2009 Rulebook, they are not even my interpretation.
Lastly, you mentioned twice about me getting upset and mad (which I am not) and even though I said it was not my intent to upset anyone, it appears that you have allowed yourself to become so, which is bewildering.
In answering your questions, we must once again look at the intent of the rules.
The Production Category is intended to represent typical transportation vehicles, which may be purchased from ANY automobile dealer for sale to the general public.
Also, Please be aware that starting January 1, 2010, all entrants in this category must have pictures of the car as produced, with their log book for certification purposes.
Production records are subject to approval and will be certified only after comparison with the manufacturer's specifications for the model entered. The entrant is required to provide suitable documentation.
The rules state that the radiator must be retained in the stock location and be of the same year and manufacture as the body.
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Hi guys. Don't read anything into this note. I have no vested interest in Production based classes, but I successfully
raced F/PS GC and Alt with my old Merkur for 10 years, held several SCTA/BNI records and the F/PS ECTA record (which i still rent).
Building a Production class car for Maxton, or Lorring, should be no different than for Bonneville.
The special "street" classes not withstanding.
The P/S classes are no less competitive than any other, and with the increasing popularity of small high powered engines in smaller cars, I think the lower displacement classes will become even more so. I'm really surprised someone hasn't blown my 16 year old ECTA record into the stratosphere. That's what happened when someone came along with a serious SRT4. Jorgen (sp) added almost 20 MPH to my record. New technology, smaller car. (progress and a good committed team)
If Joe says an aftermarket radiator is OK at Maxton, then it will be, but don't set a record at Bonneville and expect to not be protested if you have an aluminum Rabbit radiator in your Toyota, Mitsu, SRT4 or whatever. I don't participate in door car classes any longer, but will protest a car that I see in impound that is in obvious violation. The production class must be preserved as representative of what was initially built by the OEM.
For the things that are named in the rule book, there is no interpretation of the rule. It is and should be black/white. there is no Intent verses what is written. You need the parts they say, and those parts need to be production for the body produced. The parts need to be there, but in some cases they need not function as intended. There is a difference, and that is where the competitive nature enters.
Specifically, the radiator must Look like the production rad you took out. It should look enough like original that someone familiar with the car will see it as original. Is that cheating or taking advantage?? You have to decide which way to build the car. I'm not saying I did this, but if you modify by adding number of fins per inch to a production radiator is it going to help you go faster? Hell yes. Is it legal? Not really. Will someone notice? Maybe, maybe not, but when it means an SCTA/BNI or USFRA record on the salt
you can bet the scrutiny by your competitors is pretty complete. If you have few or no competitors then perhaps Mr. Dan Warner or one of his folks will notice. They are all way sharper than you might expect.
An interesting point though is how to prove that parts are original design intent. Thats where photos and build books will be hepfull.
Now, if you choose to flow ice water thru the original rad, and duct the cold air to the carb bonnet, thats legal. Of course you need to cool the engine another way, but thats been done. (This has been done in Production, Gas Coupe and Altered, and I'll bet in every other class as well. I havent seen them all.
If you have a car that very few racers are familiar with then recognizing a change that may/may not be legal is more difficult for the scrutineers. That is why SCTA/BNI have made the new requirements of photos and factory printed brochures. You can believe the rules are being visited regularly to maintain the purity of "PRODUCTION".
And make no mistake, when you go from 1/4 mile Drags, to Maxton, at a full mile, or Lorring at 1 1/2 miles, you WILL want to go to the LONGEST DRAG RACE IN THE WORLD. I've been to both ECTA venues, and will go to Maine, but my real reason for doing all this is BONNEVILLE, and I think most of you will have the fever as well.
Respectfully
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In regards to the intent of the radiator rules is that a full size radiator is mounted in the OEM location. A trans cooler radiator mounted in the wheelwell does not meet the sniff test. The rules do not restrict the use of an aftermarket radiator.
DW
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I guess I am wrong. Even though I'm quoting what is in the rule book, I now know there is interpretation of the rules.
Everybody forget everything I said.
There is no black and white, just grey.
As one of my heros said
NEVERMIND
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Rick,
I'm confused(easily), I thought your comments were on point and I simply trying to clarify a point.
DW
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Rick I agree with most of what you said and "I" (don't want to get John in trouble) believe that we are on the same page when we are speaking about the rules whether it be in production or special construction they are there to help guide us to the way the class is intended to be. I can guarantee that john was not trying to gain an advantage as the rad. is of stock size and in the stock location, he doesn't have a small radiator as my car does. My turbo/header setup precludes me running a full size radiator which is one of the major factor in why I haven't taken my car to Bonneville yet.
I was going to disagree with you however as I have personally seen cars in production classes at Bonneville with aluminum rads before, but DW came to my rescue.
DW- thanks for throwwing that out there so I didn't start doubting myself, it's great to have someone such as yourself clarify things for us.
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As an aside I would like to apologise to anyone I may have offended with my earlier remarks, it was not my in tension to do so. I was just getting a vibe that I mistook for something else and I got all defensive(sorry).
P.S.-Sort of along these lines I am changing my setup slightly to make my car more along the lines of what people deem a street car, no more side exit exhaust.
Will this slow me down you ask, I don't think so. I believe it is going to go faster due to better aerodynamics. The car will also have alot more power available this year.
I will of course start at base boost and work my way up from there so don't expect any fast passes rite away.
P.P.S-Rick I fully expect Johns car to beat all my records once it is fully shaken down.
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I think I need to go ahead and get a ECTA membership to get the new rulebook. At this point I am almost to the point of bringing the car on the trailer to Maxton in April and not racing but just running it through tech to see what will need to be tweaked or changed. I am a bit concerned about one final item on my car keeping me out of PS but I will wait to see what I am told. It has been clearly posted numberous times in the build thread and no one has said anything about it so we will just wait and see.
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John,,, I have noticed it !!!
Charles
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HAH sent you a email to see if we are of the same thinking, though there is not a single rule written in the rulebook saying anything about it specifically :wink:.
BTW if a moderator reads this this thread would likely be better suited to be moved to the ECTA rules section instead of general chat. I am sure I will have more questions about the class and other will benefit from your feedback and would find it easier in that section.
And as far as paperwork showing the car as produced? You just want pictures of it stock? Worst case I can bring up a whole stock talon worse comes to worst. The rules really don't say much about anything under the hood appearance wise other than radiator, am I at least correct in that aspect?
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John, Plan on running in April no matter what... you can always go Time Only. and I don't think you'll have any trouble with tech either, just Richien when you take his records....:-)
And remember, Tech is for Safety equipment only, not Class conformance, that is strictly up to the competitor... The only time anybody cares about class conformance is when a record is broken, and it's usually the guy whose record you broke doing the closest scrutiny (they get to protest), and I think there has only been one protest ever filed in the ECTA.
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Mike, I'll add a bit of a caveat to the comment about tech being for safety only:
Yes -- that's what Tech does. But -- many times I'll see something that will make a vehicle ineligible for a declared class - while I'm doing the safety inspection. I'll point out to the racer that he doesn't qualify for that class because of such-and-such, and suggest that he consider changing either the class -- or the item that's not right.
I inspect bikes, though -- maybe the car inspectors do it differently.
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I noticed the car was not Satin Black with Red and White lettering !!!! Can I protest ?? :cheers: :cheers:
Nice build,,,Hope you make it for April.... I am at best 50/50 to make it with my new build.
Charles
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As far as paperwork showing the car as produced? You just want pictures of it stock? Worst case I can bring up a whole stock talon worse comes to worst.
The rules really don't say much about anything under the hood appearance wise other than radiator, am I at least correct in that aspect?
John, a couple of things regarding your questions above.
Firstly, the best documentation you can have available for proof of the vehicle is a Manufacturers brochure, Factory Service Manuals or other "official" documents for the year of your vehicle. Also, I'm not sure towing down another vehicle as an example of stock is considered "documentation".
Secondly, you are not entirely correct about the rulebook not saying much about anything under the hood appearance wise other than radiator. It does talk about aftermarket headers being allowed and is pretty specific about turbo's and superchargers.
Also, I know Mike is assisting you with the build and therefore you should have a copy of the 2009 ECTA Rulebook available to you, but just in case this is an incorrect assumption on my part, please find below the excerpts that are pertinent to the class you want to run in.
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5.E PRODUCTION CATEGORY
Starting on Jan. 01, 2010 al entrants running in Production classes must have pictures of the car as produced with their Log Book for certification purposes.
This category is intended to represent typical transportation vehicles, which may be purchased from ANY automobile dealer. A production rate of at least 500 vehicles of the same model and available from any dealer's inventory for sale to the general public is considered to meet the requirement of a production automobile. In keeping with this intent, the cars are aerodynamically "stone stock" with no body parts allowed which were not parts of the manufacturer's production for the series of the vehicle involved.
The engine used must have been available in the model of vehicle used as purchased from ANY automobile dealer. Modified body, body panels, spoilers, air dams, etc. intended for and as accepted or sanctioned by NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA, etc. are not permitted for use in this category unless specifically allowed. A manufacturer's part number does not necessarily imply that a part is an original, factory installed body part. Both exterior and interior body panels are considered to be part of a production vehicle and must be mounted in their original relationship to each other.
Racing seats shall be used per Section 3.D.1. The original side panel upholstery, both front and rear, must remain or be replaced with an aluminum equivalent. A stock or full width dashboard is mandatory. A fabricated, non-flammable equivalent is acceptable. Carpet, sound deadening material, headliner, minor chrome trim and emblems may be removed.
A different displacement size of the same design engine may be used provided it does not constitute an engine swap as defined in Section 4.N. Any transmission, non-quick change rear end, and an on-board starter capable of starting the engine shall be used so long as the original running gear design is retained.
Vehicles originally produced as a front wheel drive chassis and converted to rear wheel or four-wheel drive chassis are NOT eligible for competition in the Production Category. Choices camshafts, induction and ignition are unlimited. Cylinder heads are limited to original r of valves and port configuration.
Vehicles in this category that exceed 200 MPH, or if the existing record is over 200 MPH, have roof rails, see Section 4.X
PRODUCTION RECORDS ARE SUBJECTTO APPROVAL AND WILL BE CERTIFIED ONLY AFTER COMPARISON WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE MODEL ENTERED. THE ENTRANT IS REQUIRED TO PROVIDE SUITABLE DOCUMENTATION. El Caminos and Rancheros meeting the requirements within this category will compete in the appropriate class.
XX/PRO class is limited to cylinder head port configuration as originally designed. This applies to the XXF and XXO engine classes.
All closed vehicles that would qualify as a V4 or V4F Production coupe or sedan will compete in the V4 or V4F Gas Coupe class.
Vehicles using a hybrid power source, such as a gasoline/ battery pack, will compete in the equivalent cubic inch class of the gasoline engine. The battery pack MUST be the stock unit as sold with the vehicle model used. The battery pack will be sealed to the race vehicle to ensure that it cannot be swapped. No off board charging of the battery packs will be allowed. If the vehicle is removed from the race meet, all previous runs will be forfeited. OEM throttle body control MUST be used. The entrant must provide the documentation to ensure that production units are used.
5.E.1 Production Coupe And Sedan - /PRO
American coupes and sedans 1928 to current year, foreign coupes and sedans 1949 to current year, or 1928-1981 American coupes and sedans that do not meet the requirements for Classic Category.
The vehicle will be unaltered in height, width or contour, with all stock panels mounted in the original relationship to each other. This category does not include cars properly classified as Sports or GT. A production rate of at least 500 vehicles of the same model for sale to the general public is considered to meet the requirement of a production automobile. The entrant must provide the documentation to ensure that production requirements are met.
The following items shall be retained in the stock location and of the same year and manufacture as the body: frame, floor pan, fenders, hood, grille, drip rails (must not be filled), windows, door handles, window trim, dashboard, headlights (high and low beam), tail lights, parking lights, stop lights, radiator, front and rear bumpers and horn. Decals are not acceptable as meeting the head and tail light requirements. The stock gas tank must be fitted, but need not be used.
The following body and chassis modifications may be made: headers, hood scoop (Section 4.R), wheel openings may be radiused for tire clearance. Passenger and rear seat may be removed. Air dams and air spoilers identical to factory optional equipment, (OEM) for the body in question may be added.
The following are NOT permitted: Streamlining, (Section 4.CC and subsections), Air Ducts (Section 4.A), Air Vents (Section 4.C), Chopping (Section 4.1), Channeling (Section 4.1.1). Rules for these classes will be strictly enforced to ensure that cars entered are typical of street machines that may be purchased from ANY automobile dealer.
Coupes and sedans produced from 1949 to the current model year, and not meeting the criteria of the Classic Category, must compete in the Modified Category classes.
Engine classes allowed are: AA, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, XF, XO, XXF & XXO
5.E.2 Production-Supercharged -/PS
This class is intended for American and foreign coupes and sedans that meet the requirement of the Production Coupe and Sedan Class that are equipped with factory supercharger systems. The vehicle shall be as originally equipped and configured. If the vehicle was originally equipped with one turbo charger, one turbo charger must be used. If the vehicle was originally equipped with a belt driven supercharger, a supercharger of that type must be used. Supercharged sports coupes equipped with rear jump seats, such as Mazda RX7 Turbo and Porsche 930 series, which would be considered a GT class vehicle, shall compete in the Blown GT class.
Engine classes allowed are B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and J.
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Well,,, that sure sums it up ???
You could always have fun in the Modified or Altered Class ?
See you in April,,, I sure can't wait to see that Rad Ride Run the MONSTER MILE !!!
Charles
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Dan,
No problem
I was just taken back though that aftermarket radiators are actually allowed.
There isn't really anything to then determine airflow thru the engine bay that is certainly one variable as to how fast a car can go.
Varying fins per inch, or rows of tubes does a small part of blocking off the radiator.
BUT, moving on
Having said everything on the earlier post
Aside from specific cant do modifications, PRODUCTION class cars are special built, probably like mine, never to run on the street again, and certainly take EVERY advantage or unfair advantage. Lowering to the absolute max, with completely redesigned suspension systems is common. My old car included. The only thing that limits the PRO competitor is his wallet and skills. Just like any other class.
I'm not saying that all out cheating should be done, but make no mistake, most record setting PRO class cars are VERY modified, and push the envelope of the rules a great deal. (see one fast evo, we do agree) and I don't think you offended anyone with your comments. I think I feel lot more strongly than you, and do voice it frequently. I just havent done it here.
The intent of the rules may be to represent the original production car, and it should, but make no mistake these things are not STOCK CARS other than the virginal body skin. and underbody. There have been some very nicely massaged bodies in the past. (not mine)(honest).
As Mr White monster says documentation is most important now, but again, from my first event with the Merkur we had that stuff because my car was not produced in real high numbers. (about 5K per year as XR4Ti) If there is another car present at the event it would be perfect. Actually I wanted to use another Merkur as a push car, but I couldn't afford it.
I believe about 18 years ago there was a car that lost its good standing when another of the same model drove up along side, and an official noticed a significant difference in body shape. (now thats just a story isn't it)
One last point and I'll quit jabbering and go play with my grandkids.
The really big issue with production class is the skin outside and inside, and underbody. The engine bay can be completely empty of stuff, but the fenderwells need to be pretty much left alone. Need to cut a hole for headers, go ahead, just don't make a 4 foot hole for a 4 into two collector.
One of the reasons that new guys are told to get the rule book, and go to the salt and study the class of cars that they will be running is just to see what you can get away with. (so to speak) If you had seen Stagmeyer& Eakers, or the 757 Camero, they are full of wonderful things you can do in PRO class.
Also, I guess that if you plan on only ECTA events, the one rule book is ok. But it was and is modeled after the SCTA rule book and if there is a remote possibility you will want to go to the sale (EVER) then you really need both.
And as many have offered, write to the organizers and "get a response in writing" and keep it with your log book.
One last thing for everyone.
It is not a disgrace to be asked to leave impound after qualifying or setting a record.
Many of us at Bonneville have had this experience, then just gone out and gone faster in the next pass.
Dont cheat, but push really really hard.
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Again, thanks for all the help. As I read those rules all I need to do is reinstall the wipers and rewire them and reinstall the horn. The body of the car is untouched, unless you count the door ding it picked up last weekend, SOB :roll:. Interior is all there from carpet to headliner, just the rear seats removed for cage purposes. Car retains all the lights and other options needed to pass NC state inspection so it can run in the true street Drag class.
I don't see rules about exhaust so am I to assume there are no exhaust requirements and I can do with it as I will?
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Hey Slim,
Not saying an inspector may not offer their opinion and experience on what class a entrant should be in, but that's not their primary job. as Dan W. would attest. Some people are expecting to get inspected for class conformance, that doesn't happen until impound. as I found out early in my career. I still don't know where anybody sees a windshield wiper requirement, I pulled out everything on my truck, and just don't take the exhaust out thru a fender. As far as the horn, we had a OOGaAH squeeze horn on the Street Roadster I used to run...
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You cars guys (okay pickup truck guys) are a different breed -- what can I say?
When I'm inspecting bikes we will darn near never let someone go -- that is, approve his bike at inspection -- if he won't later pass in impound. We do it as a courtesy - but are pretty firm about it.
At Bville I let the Maxton "effect" control me somewhat -- I won't argue the point, but rather make sure that the contestant knows that he's likely going to regret trying to run with whatever it is he's got -- if he gets to impound.
Back to your point --- I agree that inspection isn't the place for final "compliance" checking, but if I can save someone some grief -- I try to do so.
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SSS,
I am with you,,, now come down here and get all this cold, snow and icy weather and take it back up with you where it all belongs.
Charles
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Again, thanks for all the help. As I read those rules all I need to do is reinstall the wipers and rewire them and reinstall the horn. The body of the car is untouched, unless you count the door ding it picked up last weekend, SOB :roll:. Interior is all there from carpet to headliner, just the rear seats removed for cage purposes. Car retains all the lights and other options needed to pass NC state inspection so it can run in the true street Drag class.
I don't see rules about exhaust so am I to assume there are no exhaust requirements and I can do with it as I will?
John, feel free to send me a direct e mail Rick@RBMotorsports.com
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SSS
In the time since I've been involved (86onward) the car guys in tech don't openly pass judgement on the legality.
BUT
There is discussion about new cars and something that may be questionable and if really severe, the owner probably will be talked to.
The very first year for the Merk this occur ed to some extent, but everything turned out OK.
Again if we don't push a little we don't have as much fun.
I made a record that year, lost it two days later, and been here ever since.
Pointedly the car guys will, but it isn't up front. Like everything else in LSR. When we approach a sport in a civilized manner good council can and does occur.
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I've been lobbying for the car inspectors to note in the Log Book things that are blatantly in violation of the Rule Book in the class that a vehicle has been entered. Couple of reasons for this . . .
One is to help the competitor if and when he gets to Impound from getting kicked out because of something he could have easily fixed.
Another is to aid in keeping a car from being sold as class-legal -- because it's passed inspection numerous times.
And most importantly -- at least to chicken-schit me -- is too keep a car from setting a record at a lightly-attended or late in the day meet.
Believe it or not, some competitors select running at a meet where the scrutinizing may fall to just one or two people.
So far, some inspectors do, and some do not although I believe there have been some guidelines regarding committee chairmen being involved.
So there! (Probably got it all wrong, anyway.)
Stan Back
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And now I see it's ECTA -- never mind . . .
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Stan,, good to hear from you on the ECTA boards....
FYI--- you can't say never mind !!! LOL :cheers: :cheers:
Charles
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Again, thanks for all the help. As I read those rules all I need to do is reinstall the wipers and rewire them and reinstall the horn. The body of the car is untouched, unless you count the door ding it picked up last weekend, SOB :roll:. Interior is all there from carpet to headliner, just the rear seats removed for cage purposes. Car retains all the lights and other options needed to pass NC state inspection so it can run in the true street Drag class.
I don't see rules about exhaust so am I to assume there are no exhaust requirements and I can do with it as I will?
You do not have to rewire the wipers, just have the wipe motor installed, same with the horn. They have to be there but do not have to function.
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HAH, that pretty funny. Have to be there but not be functional. Thanks though.
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HAH, that pretty funny. Have to be there but not be functional. Thanks though.
I wonder if that applies to the brakes as well ?? Have to be there but not functional LOL :cheers:
Charles
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If it is a new car/truck I will ask them what class they plan to run.Most newbes don't know.At that time I will offer asstance but it is up to them.
I am there for safety,not to build their car or to say you can only run in class xx/xxx
terry
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Quite often during Tech Inspection, racers do not even know what class they are running in yet !!
:-D
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Digging this one back up, my new question is about exhaust. In the ECTA rule book for production I cannot find anything about exhaust requirement. When we where at the April event I saw a car who has some PS records that we see every meet and it didn't appear to have much more than a short section that dumped under the car past the headers. Is there an exhaust rule for production that I have overlooked? I know for the SCTA there is but in the ECTA rule book I cannot fond one and the cars I see running production don't appear to follow the SCTA rules.
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3.P, page 27 of the ECTA 2010 book is the only rule I know of for exhaust. Coincidentally, it's section 3.P in the SCTA Book. The rules are word for word.