Landracing Forum
Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials => Bville Motorcycle Speed Trials Rules Questions => Topic started by: bak189 on June 14, 2009, 06:46:22 PM
-
OK.....OK>........The last time I posted a heads up regarding the AMA/FIM rules......it went on and on.....
no need for that this time........if you don't like the rules...stay home.................................................
OK.....Just a reminder to READ the BUB rules carefully...........under Rule 1.I. It is noted that "scrutiniring
of engine displacement of ALL CYLINDERS is Required"........That means that Drew and his people will check ALL CYL. for record certification on all multiple cyl. engines...........I know that SCTA/BNI only checks one barrel, I don't know how it is done on the East Coast and/or in the Land of OZ.......so as I noted DO carefully read the BUB Rules...
Happy Racing..........
-
lets just hope they check the bike and make sure its legal for the class also... The extra time it takes to measure the cylinders they should spend going over the class requirements to make sure the bike is legal for the body...
JonAmo
Hopefully Ill be at BUB's this year.... making the 4 wheeler a two two wheeler...
-
Like I said.........if you don't like the rules......STAY HOME!!!!!!!!!!!
-
I have no problems with the rules.... Did I say I didn't???
JonAmo
-
Hello,
The AMA requires all cylinders be measured.
The F.I.M. requires one cylinder be measured.
Whether peoples thoughts are pro or con regarding these rules,
it is the way it stands for 2009.
"The extra time it takes to measure the cylinders they should spend going over the class requirements to make sure the bike is legal for the body..."
In regards to the above quote; I'm sure you know that technical inspection is at the beginning of the meet, and displacement checks (for the most part) happen towards the end.
Though I understand your concern, I will say that the tech. department will do their absolute best in assuring correct classifications be done, and that one job will not interfere or detract from the other.
Thank You
-
Like I said.........if you don't like the rules......STAY HOME!!!!!!!!!!!
Oww...Cranky much? :) :cheers:
-
Thanks for the input, Drew.........................
-
look.....this is an OPEN FORUM........
if you dont like the rules.....DONT POST....
when detailed pictures of DOZENS of illegal bikes shown
ON the course were sent in and verified as illegal by AMA...
and the ama response was..."we know they were illegal...but we are not
taking the records away.."...........
then you see a post about how rules are rules......then ya might have to
take a little heat.......on the current history of the event.........
with that said.......Im tickled pink that the AMA and Dennis have brought this
event to life......and
Im glad as heck they are doing the best they can, and pursuing making things better........
thats all we can ask........
Joe Amo :)
-
Drew,
its weird that the FIM only requires one cyclinder and AMA requires all four??? If a person were to set a FIM record (which is a world record) then would the AMA not allow the record to be put in their books because only one cyclinder was measured??? I mean you have to be a AMA member to set a world record for FIM.... It just seems weird to me...
For your sake I hope most all are going for FIM records then only one cylinder needs to get done...
Drew you have done an OUTSTANDING Job, I do appreciate all your hard work... You work a greuling task since there are alot of records set and I think you alone measure all the bikes....
JonAmo
-
Hello again,
Thank you for the compliment, but please note that there is good help each year
in assisting with the displacement checks.
Regarding the AMA and F.I.M. requirements, I can't speak on behalf of the
sanctioning bodies, because I am basically a hired hand.
I'm sure they have good reasoning behind their rules.
As far as having a grueling schedule, I think it's all fun from beginning to the end.
I figure that's what they make two Guinness and bed for at the end of the day.
Someone did however snap this picture of me (shown below) on the last day,
a couple years ago.
Yuk Yuk
See ya this fall
-
No offense intended by my post, as said, was just a little shocked at the fervid, vigorous, energetic, vehement post, returned on such a subtle sounding reply to the original post...(see below)...i understand that others may adopt your thread, and try to turn it into somethig you did not intend, but here we are...are we not?
...
ve·he·ment (v-mnt)
adj.
1. Characterized by forcefulness of expression or intensity of emotion or conviction; fervid: a vehement denial. See Synonyms at intense.
2. Marked by or full of vigor or energy; strong: a vehement storm.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin vehemns, vehement-, perhaps from vehere, to carry; see wegh- in Indo-European roots.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
vehe·mence, vehe·men·cy n.
vehe·ment·ly adv.
-
It seem that some of you people are taking great exception to my statement "if you don't like the rules stay home" ...........no need to get excited..........that is what we have done regarding BNI Speed Week
for the past 5 years, we do not like the "wheel on a stick" for non-streamliner sidecars rule.......so we stay home from Speed Week and race the BUB instead....they give us
the option... passenger or not............
Prior to the BUB.......Yes, we raced BNI and raced a "wheel on a stick" sidecar.... they were the only game in town at that time and we set many records.......but now we have another Org. to race with.
Simple...."if you don't like the rules stay home"
-
bob im with you "if you dont like the rules stay home " makes sense to me---if you set a record at the fim or ama is there a charge for a record cert. or is that included in your entry fee like the scta thanks willie buchta
-
.......and if ya dont all like the governments rules......ya can leave right........?
OR you can celebrate the sanctioning bodies....government....etc AND
NOT SIT IDLE always......and participate in meaningful discourse.....that
just might facilitate truth...justice and the American way.......
"if you dont like the rules.....you DONT have to stay home....."
we have NO problem following the rules.....closely reading and interpreting
the rules.....and EXPECTING enforcement of the rules..........
good things can come from honest discourse.......
i have no problem trying to run both events and supporting both events....(got time
off for both this year finally).....
i also have no problem not being a "stick on a wheel".......
both events EVOLVE........due to racer input....
ps...no where on here did anyone say they didnt like the rules....
for me.....a chance to race is a chance to chase your dreams...
THANK YOU to those such as AMA...FIM...SCTA and all those involved with
these organizations that make it possible to have a venue for pursuing speed.....
-
sheri and i race at 6 el mirage events a year (760 miles round trip 1 event) we always go to speed week (1400 miles round trip) and the world finals if we can afford it (1400 miles round trip ) thats 7300 miles at 10 miles per gallon towing we need 730 gallons of gas --730 gallens at 3 dollars per gallon thats 2190 dollars plus entry fees 1960 dollars thats about all we can afford on social security--would love to go to the east coast and texas and bub but we are limited by our funds ---to put it in perspective thats almost 400 dollars a month--just a little less than my house payment---and all of the events we race we have the same rules that way we dont get confused willie buchta
-
Think about this Willie, if you run the BUB with your sidecar I understand you have a good chance in making $800.00 Cash for the fastest "normal" sidecar, dollars put out there by Bakker Motorsports.....................................................
You don't have to run a passenger.... you have the option and still get the monies.......................
-
bob i just ran 135 at el mirage for a new gas record --if the 800 dollars was for the fastest 1000cc sc pg i might have a chance -- i have been to bub as a spectator and had a great time ---thanks for the invite willie buchta
-
bub..."normal" sidecar...."without passenger".....
thats just like the scta rules...it sounds like....
wheel on a stick...?
the classes and rules are more alike than different i think...
thats pretty cool....
-
bub passenger or 132 lbs on the sidecar-----scta NO passenger sidecar has to weigh 10% of the rig actually i carry 58 lbs so we are only about 70 lbs apart which should make absolutely no difference at bonneville as far as mph--i wouldnt want someone riding on my sidecar at least someone i cared about ---at the scta events you used to have to carry a passenger up until the late 80s then i think the insurance put a stop to it --and you know i sure get tired of hearing that wheel on a stick $hit---willie buchta
-
Willie..........picked up the "wh--l on a stick "......reference from bak189.......
Joe :)
-
Or the new guy 1194..
:cheers:
-
1987.......last year for passengers at SCTA/BNI.......AND insurance had NOTHING to to with it............
Willie, is correct 132lbs on the outfit or the option of a passenger at the BUB...................................
-
at first i thought that wheel on a stick was cute---then it got really old --now its way beyond that -- when you try to stop a sidecar rig the sidecar tries to pass the bike and when you accelerate the bike tries to pass the sidecar ---the heaver the sidecar the worse this problem becomes--i dont know what kind of fool would want to intentally make there rig unstable but i guess there is 1 or 2 in every crowd ---i and everyone else that goes through tech with a sidecar has met the rules whatever event it is --i will not add 132 lbs to my sidecar if the scta says i have to then i will build something and hang my sidecar rig from the ceiling in the shop------willie buchta
-
bob you have posted here hundreds of times that " insurance had nothing to do with it " like it was something that only you know well why dont you tell us if insurance had nothing to do with it then what did --- i would would like to know willie buchta
-
If cars racing cannot have a passenger then why should bikes?
J
-
Haven't we already seen this movie here!
-
we have seen the movie several times but its obvious to me that you and bob have missed the ending willie buchta
-
we have seen the movie several times but its obvious to me that you and bob have missed the ending willie buchta
Larry,
You have to admit Willie made a funny... :cheers:
-
Willie
if your sidecar trys to pass you on the de-cell or exhibits other types of steering input irregularities you have problems...... my sidecar runs straight and true without even noticing a 3rd wheel is there..... you have design problems... if you want, i will let you race my 750 to see how a real sidecar rides and then maybe you will realize what we have been trying to tell you about geometry..
Kent
-
thats what im talking about........meaningful discourse....
with the opportunity to learn something, and possibly make
something better..... or some drama.....either is nice in this journey.....
if ya dont like the rules...ya dont have to stay home....
Joe :)
-
Do I get residuals for the sequel?
-
yes larry your check is in the mail and the best of luck at the bub meet willie buchta
-
kent i didnt say that my sidecar did any of those things in fact it runs straight and doesnt pull to either side at any time --i was talking about sidecars in general --i know i had one on a road king ---my sidecar wheel weighs 58 lbs (measured at the el mirage meet in june in tech) but i know if i added 132 lbs to the sidecar the bike wouldnt handle as good as it does now--- oh yea i forgot your the smart one and everyone else is stupid willie buchta
-
Willie, Willie, Willie......I have posted since 1987 a milion times why "insurance is not the reason" for no passengers at SCTA/BNI.......the short and the long of it is SCTA/BNI is a CAR-CLUB....read John N. post and there is your answer.........also Kent is correct ...(again as usual) it certainly it appears you have a major problem with your outfit in regards to handling........we have been at 187mph with a 180lbs passenger and the outfit ran straight as a arrow........................................................................
-
bob why would you spread a lie like that --kent has posted lies on here before about my bike and i thought you were a smarter person than to believe lies and i thought you were both better persons than that im not sure why anyone would lie about someone elses bike on this forum but shame on you both willie buchta
kent you can have the last lie im done posting on this thread this is neither constructive or entertaining
-
on the contrary.......this is both constructive.....and entertaining......!!!
seriously the handling issue........effects ALL of us......and any thinking
and discussion towards this topic is......immensely important...and will
help someone out there/here.......
willie please dont clam up.....this might not be easy or comfortable.....but
all this input is priceless.........to someone....
while im here.......willie....bak etal......if any of you are around the black
hills of sd in near future......say for the sturgis rally........ya have a place
to sleep and relax here at out place.......(bak never takes me up on the offer
even though he is here every year).......
Joe :)
-
Joe, I am working with Legend Air out of Rapid City so I will be in Sturgis this year. I will at least give you a holler.
-
Willie, we are only trying to help..........but now I give up, it appears that you fully understand what is
needed to build a safe LSR sidecar outfit.......Happy Racing.........................................................
Yep, old Bak will again be at the Sturgis Rally this year.....but not for fun......but to work.......the fun went away about 15 years ago........any of you there for fun, come by the big Barnett truck next to the convention center in down town Sturgis..............and Joea, thanks again for the offer, but Mike Taylor
(owner/President of Barnett and sidecar passenger extraordinaire) takes good care of us......................
-
joea maybe you are right i just dont understand how spreading lies about my bike is helpful to anyone and you see how one guy spreads the lies and the other one believe them --i dont know why someone would do that --there is absolutely no basis for the lies that kent has spread about my bike---i built the frame on my bike and i tried to make it a good solid frame ---the front end i had was too long and being on a budget i just added more rake to the frame to get the height i wanted so i ended up with between 52 and 55 degrees of rake(depending on the ride height) which i didnt think would cause a problem and it hasnt not for any tech official and and not for me --it seams the only that has a problem with it is kent and i have not a clue why---anyway enough of that ---i think ive posted on this site before that what works for one does not always work for all--some of the things that can make your bike ill handling that ive found are --tires--wheel spokes--wheel balance--out of true wheels--loose swingarm bolts--worn swingarm bushings or bearings--swing arm flex--no trail or very little trail--fork flex below the triple trees either lateral or twisting--frame flex especially around the steering head ---one that drove me crazy was the rear shocks didnt have the same spring rating --or a combination of any of the above --i think that if you get all of these things right then you can get away with less or more rake and trail but if you get 2 or more of them wrong you will have serious trouble ---i make no recommendations as to rake and trail unless i build the bike --my advise is to do the research and make up your own mind ---there a lot of experts on land racing some good some bad and sometimes its hard to tell the difference --DO THE RESEARCH just some thoughts ---sorry bob for hijacking your thread willie buchta