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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: wobblywalrus on June 14, 2009, 01:03:12 PM



Title: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 14, 2009, 01:03:12 PM
This build diary shows how we handle basic problems.  It is intended for people new to racing and low budget guys and ladies like oursevles.  Nothing fancy here.

The Triumph swingarm was extended 3 inches.  It was cut and a 3-inch lengths of rectangular tube were spliced in using butt welds.  The butt welds are probably good enough but I would be in real bad trouble if there was a fracture at or near the weld.  We added four gusset plates across the butt welds, one on each side of the swingarm, for safety's sake.  Our welder calls them "fish plates."

The modified arms are longer and the swingarm assembly will be more flexible unless strength is added.  I looked at two options.  One was to build a "C" shaped truss under or over the swingarm.  The other was to add a "C" shaped box section.  I drew up free-body diagrams showing the forces, reactions, and moments in the swingarm.  This is complicated so I looked at brake load, power load, weight load, and torsional twisting load separately.  The box added the most strength in the right places with the least amount of added metal.  The Triumph has a McCandliss style twin shock swingarm with 2-inch deep rectangular tubing.  A McCandliss swingarm made from smaller diameter round tube or a single shock cantilever arm are different animals.  The added box might not be the best option for them.

The added box was discussed with the welder.  He made some suggestions and gave me some sheet steel that is compatible with the Triumph metal.  We are a low budget operation so I cut and bent the pieces.  I work for free so this saved money.  The welder welded everything up.  A big problem that none of us anticipated was contraction during welding.  The arms pulled toward each other.  The welder spent a lot of time dealing with this issue and getting everything right.  I did not ask what he did and I do not want to know.  I do know that a lot of heat, force, cussing, and cigars were used.

I seldom get everything right the first time around so I do not invest much money in paint.  I use a paint system that is inexpensive and easily patched after future changes.  It is to clean the metal as good as I can, spray on red primer, follow with gray primer, and topcoat with satin black.  I use Rustoleum rattle can paint.  This was how my parents did it.  It can look good if the blemishes are sanded smooth between coats.   

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 17, 2009, 12:14:30 AM
The paint is drying on the swingarm.  Now it is time to start work on the triple clamps.  The aluminum billets arrived from Fastenal and they must be trimmed to size.

Aluminum can gall onto a saw blade and it can plug the teeth.  This makes it difficult to cut and some alloys are worse than others.  A lubricant helps and kerosene is a traditional choice.  Kerosene soaks into clothes and workbenches and the odor can be a problem in a home workshop.  My cutting lubricant is an odorless kerosene-like oil used in Aladdin kerosene lamps.  A coarse blade such as Milwaukee 5091 8/12T resists clogging and slower cutting speeds help prevent galling.

The billet is clamped in a vice and blue tape is used to mark the cut edge.  The tape is on the cut side that must be straight.  It is easy to control the cut by following the tape.  The backside is a different matter.  Sawzall blades are hard to control in thick metal and they wander.  A guide is clamped onto the backside.  The guide is a piece of strap and it is clamped on the cut side that must be straight.  Experience shows that the guide bar must be steel and not aluminum.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: McRat on June 17, 2009, 12:57:31 AM
Hotrodding at it's finest. :cheers:

For aluminum gauling on blades, I like beeswax or other solid wax sticks.  Less mess, works better than liquids.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 17, 2009, 01:46:28 AM
Hotrodding at it's finest. :cheers:
For aluminum gauling on blades, I like beeswax or other solid wax sticks.  Less mess, works better than liquids.

....tapping fluid, wd40, all work ......ask Grumm441 about cutting big Al stock and he'll tell you a story about a a friend of his who uses a circular saw :-o


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 19, 2009, 09:29:44 PM
Marking the billets is today's job.  The blocks have three irregular sawed sides and one smooth as-rolled side.  The smooth side is the "true side"   Measurements will be taken from the true side and the square will be placed against this side when lines are scribed across the part.

It is important to place reference points on the part for future measurements.  At least one mark on each face should be located in a place where it will not be removed during future work.  I measure halfway across the billet and scribe a line perpendicular to the true side.  The clamps are 3.980 inches from front to back.  I punch a reference point 1.990 inches (half of 3.980) away from the true side on the scribed line.  This is the exact center of the part.  I do this on all four faces.  These points will not be disturbed and future measurments will be taken from them.  Next I measure and mark the centers of the steering stem and the fork tubes. 

My scribed reference lines and punched reference points are accurate to within 1/50 of an inch.  I use a dial caliper to measure and check distances and and I use a magnifying glass to make sure they are "spot on."  Usually I punch and scribe the reference marks on a part in the afternoon then I check the layout calculations and the reference marks the next morning.  One attached picture shows the reference points and another shows an arc being scribed around a reference point using dividers.

We installed a steering damper on Werner's woodpecker bike.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: interested bystander on June 19, 2009, 09:52:35 PM
Dried out dial soap is a good aluminum lubricant, but the beeswax solution - it's kinda "GREEN" too - is hard to argue against.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 20, 2009, 07:18:46 PM
The clamp bolts will be recessed Allen head screws.  The screw heads will project 1/16 inch out from the triple clamp face.  Eight 1/2-inch diameter by 0.25 inch deep counterbores are needed.  These are made with a 1/2 inch diameter cabinet maker's Brad Point Wood Doweling Bit.  These bits work OK in aluminum.  Harder metals will ruin them.  I set the drill press for a slow 280 rpm so I will not burn up the bit.

The drill press table is adjusted so it is square with the drill press spindle.  The billet is clamped in a machinist's vice.  The vice and part are adjusted so the face and true edge are square to the table.  All of this assures that the counterbore will be square with the part.

The initial pilot hole is 1/16 inch diameter and about 1/4 inch deep.  I softly position the little drill in the punch mark on the part.  I check to make sure everything is OK with my magnifying glass, then I turn on the motor and drill the hole.  I enlarge the initial pilot hole with a 3/32 inch drill.

Now I chuck up the doweling bit and I ink the part.  I install a magnetic dial indicator base on the drill press pillar and I position a dial indicator so it measues downward movement of the drill press spindle.

I slowly feed the doweling bit down into the part.  At first only the brad point cuts.  Then I see marks on the inked part that show that the bit is starting to cut a bore.  I look at the dial indicator while I slowly lower the bit into the part.  The dial indicator hand moves 2-1/2 revolutions then I stop boring.  The bore is now 0.25 inches deep.

The doweling bit is removed and I drill the pilot hole for the screw thread tap and the clearance hole for the screw shank. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: manta22 on June 20, 2009, 08:36:57 PM
You might consider using an aircraft counterbore (AKA spotfacer); it cuts smoothly and leaves a flat- bottom hole with a radiused corner. They are used with a pilot which centers the counterbore to the hole. There are even types that can cut a counterbore on the back side of a hole.

 Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 22, 2009, 12:54:12 AM
These aircraft counterbores look good.  I will try one.  Do you know about a grinding wheel that works good on aluminum?

The parts were shaped this weekend.  The sawzall with steel backing guide was used for many cuts.  Lines of drill holes were used for other cuts.  A jigsaw was used to cut between the holes.  All cuts were made 1/32 inch outside of the finished face.  The saw marks were filed and ground away and the part is close to the desired finished size.

I made a few mistakes and some aluminum will need to be welded on to the part.  This can distort the part, so I will have the welding done before the fork tube and steering stem holes are line bored.

Werner finished his mount and he put the fairing on his bike.  He sawed the center brace out of a set of motocross handlebars, then he turned them upside down and bolted them on.   

    The part was saw could not be used for some of the cuts Some cu 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: manta22 on June 22, 2009, 06:57:23 PM
Wobbly;

No, every grinding wheel I've tried was gummed up by the aluminum. I do use belt & disc sanders on aluminum and it works reasonably well in coarse grades.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on June 22, 2009, 08:26:13 PM
Sanding discs lubricated with A-9, an aluminum tapping and cutting fluid, will give a really nice matte finish which can then be polished if desired. I'm sure Alumitap would give a similar result.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 23, 2009, 11:25:01 PM
The belt sander idea worked good.  This winter when I get some $ I will try the aluminum cutting fluid.  During lunch I saw the post about Jessie Jame's instantaneous speed attempt.  The exact opposite is Werner.  He is making his parts from scrap and mowing lawns and cleaning storm gutters to buy what he cannot make.  I help with a few things like the steering damper.

He bought a plastic fairing for around $50.  It is an EMGO.  It is made to mount on a headlight, so he made a headlight shaped mount for his Honda.  He beat a piece of scrap into a dish for a "lens."  The fairing slides onto the mount and two aluminum straps hold it in place.  The 15-year old fits perfect in behind the fairing with the low bars.  Kids are so flexible. 

He calls the woodpeckers on the fairing "Honda Birds."  Neither of us know Honda got involved with birds.  If anyone knows, please tell us.  Tomorrow he is going to cover his fuel lines with fireproof tubing.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 26, 2009, 12:53:02 AM
Fire sleeve insulation is required on fuel lines by AMA/BUB regulations.  We use XRP Performance Products XRP-4.  There are many other suitable brands.  Our local speed shop sells the sleeve by the foot.  The hose has a teflon impregnated cover and fiberglass insulation.

My trick to install this sleeve is to push a large pencil through the sleeve and follow it with the fuel line.  It is hard to push the hose through the sleeve by itself.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 26, 2009, 12:56:43 AM
I forgot the pictures.  Here they are.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 15, 2009, 12:53:01 AM
A lot of internet research went into this attempt to cure the speed wobble.  Typing "BMW Speed Wobble" into a search engine provided all sorts of info.  One item mentioned was the importance of having the holes in the triple clamps in proper alignment.  The dimensions between the hole centerlines in each clamp should be within a couple of thousands of an inch, ideally, according to the posted advice.

The fork hole centers were specified to be 3.376 inches from the part centerline with a plus or minus .001 inch tolerance.  The steering stem center was specified to be on the part centerline with a tolerance of  plus or minus .001 inches to the right or left.  There were similar tolerances for the distances from the true faces on the front of the clamps.  This meant that the holes in the upper and lower clamps would not be more than .002 inches different.  These were tight tolerances.

The machinist stacked the clamps one on top of the other and line bored the fork tube and steering stem holes through both parts at the same time.  This assured that the holes in the top and bottom clamps would be within the specified tolerances.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 18, 2009, 01:19:17 AM
The bottom of the lower triple clamp needed to be milled to provide clearance.  This would mean a trip to the machine shop.  Neil from Arizona mentioned a milling cutter in an earlier post on this build diary.  This made me think about milling the part on my drill press.  It would be bush engineering, but it would save time and money.

The local Fastenal shop ordered me a 4 tooth by 1/2 inch diameter end mill cutter.  I made sure the cutter would make plunge cuts.  Not all end mill cutters will plunge.  The 1/2 inch size is the biggest I use on a drill press based on experience.  The stronger vertical milling machines are needed for the bigger cutters.

I taped a piece of graph paper with a 1/4 inch square grid on the drill press table.  Then I clamped on a guide bar with two clamps.  The bar was lined up with the grid on the paper.  Next, I clamped the part onto the table with two husky C clamps.  The part rested against the guide bar and a pen mark on the part was aligned with a line on the grid paper.  The stop was set so the cutter would not go deeper than the desired 1/4 inch.

I slid the part along the guide and plunged the mill cutter into the part at 1/4 inch intervals.  The pen mark on the part was aligned with the graph paper grid to help me space the cuts.  I would rotate the drill press table after each row was cut to the position of the next row.  The rows were 1/4 inch apart.  There were 16 plunges per square inch.  The part was clamped down with two clamps during all cuts.

I am careful around machine tools and extra careful when I use them for purposes that they were not intended.  The job took about half an evening.  It turned out well. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 19, 2009, 01:26:24 AM
Race bikes are taken apart and put together a lot, especially this one.  The forks need to be taken off to remove the fairing.  This means the triple clamp bolts will be loosened and tightened at least twice a year, if not more often.  Past experience shows that repeatedly screwing and unscrewing steel bolts in aluminum parts will eventually create enough wear to cause a stripped thread.  Murphy's law also applies.  The stripped thread will occur when there is no time to fix it or the tools to do the job.  Stainless threaded inserts were installed in all twelve of the triple clamp bolt holes to prevent stripping.  I used Recoil inserts from Australia.  They are sold by Fastenal and Ace Hardware.  There are other brands that work, too.

Using hardened washers under the triple clamp bolts has been recommended to me.  It seems to be a good idea.  I could not find hardened stainless steel washers.  Metric 8 mm hole diameter stainless steel washers are available and they are nice and thick.  These washers are too wide to fit in the 0.5 inch diameter counterbores for the Allen bolts.  They were ground on a grinding wheel to reduce the outer diameter using the little tool shown in the photos.

The inserts, washers, and some anti-sieze on the bolts will make these connections corrosion resistant, strong, and trouble-free.   

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 20, 2009, 12:08:30 AM
Sooner or later a project gets done.  The clamps are finished for now.  This winter the bottom clamp will be milled to lighten it and both will be polished and painted black.

The only machine work was line boring the three clamp holes.  All else was done by hand, a drill press, a Sawzall, or a bench grinder.  We had to do it this way for budget reasons.  If Santa Claus brought a Bridgeport mill this Christmas he would not be turned away.  Machine tools are great things.  Believe me!     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 21, 2009, 01:04:05 AM
The "W" shaped thing on the top of the bottom clamp is a steering stop.  It contacts a tab on the frame and it prevents the forks from turning far enough to dent the tank.  Four Allen bolts hold the stop to the clamp.  Force applied to the stop will try to shear the bolts.  It is good practice to reinforce bolted connections with pins when they need to resist shear.  Hardened split pins are good for this application.  Long split pins are shown in the picture.  They cannot be cut with a saw so I trim two of them to 3/4 inches length with a cutoff wheel on an air grinder.  Then I champfer the cut ends to match the manufactured ends.

Next I drill two 1/4-inch diameter holes in the stop plate 5/16 inch deep.  These holes are at the areas that I want to reinforce with the split pins.  I put two 1/4 inch diameter cabinetmaker's doweling pins in the holes.  These are available at almost all shops selling hardwoods and woodworking tools.

Now, I lightly tighten the stop to the clamp with the four bolts.  A good whack with a mallet, and the doweling pins dimple the clamp.  I take the stop off and I take out the doweling pins.  Holes 1/4 inch diameter and 1/2 inch deep are drilled in the clamp at the dimples.  The split pins are tapped into the holes.  A picture shows the doweling pin dimple and a hole with a split pin.  The last step is to bolt the stop onto the clamp with the two split pins in place.

The doweling pin method works in aluminum.  Steel dulls the doweling pins and they do not leave a mark.   



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 22, 2009, 01:22:14 AM
This build diary shows basic shop work.  Common screwups are mentioned, too.  Things do not work right all of the time.

The Recoil thread inserts did not work well.  The bolts would not easily screw into five of the nine inserts.  I had to carefully run a tap through the installed inserts to clean up the threads.  Then the bolts could be screwed in.  The ninth insert was a problem.  The tap got tangled up in the insert when I tried to remove it.  The tap broke deep inside the threaded hole.

The proper tap removal method would be to take the forks apart and bring the triple clamp to a specialist with an electric zapper.  They would blast the tap into smoke and ions with a strong electric current.  Ever mindfull of our team's lack of money and time, I opted for another procedure.  The Hillbilly method.  Hee Haw!  Tools for this travesty are drift punches, a big hammer, a magnet, needlenose pliers, and an ice pick or screwdriver.  This is brutal.  I put on my safety glasses.

Taps are made from high carbon or alloy steel.  They are brittle.  I put a drift punch in the hole and gave the broken tap a number of good whacks.  I stuck the magnet into the hole and pulled out some shattered tap fragments, I pried loose a few coil threads with the ice pick, and I pulled them out with pliers.  A flashlight helped.  I repeated the pound, pick, pull process for seven or eight more times, then voila!  The hole was clean.  A new thread insert is needed.  This is a project for another day.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 25, 2009, 01:19:52 AM
It is important to align the forks correctly during assembly.  Misaligned forks can cause a rough ride and all sorts of strange handling problems.  This is one of many methods.

First, I make sure the steering stem bearings are in good condition and not loose, the fork tubes are not bent, and there are no cracks in the frame near the steering head.  Then, I remove the springs and drain the fork oil and I insert the tubes into the clamps.

The triple clamp billets have true faces as described earlier.  Portions of the true faces have been preserved throughout fabrication process.  They are crosshatched with marking pen in the attached photo.  The machining dimensions for the fork tube and steering stem holes were measured from these true faces.  The distances between the true faces and the fork tube centerlines are the same, plus or minus a couple of thousanths of an inch.  The true faces will be used to align the triple clamps.

I put a piece of flat glass against the clamps and I twist the clamps until all of both true faces touch the glass.  How do I know the glass is flat?  Flat glass will not rock if placed against the clamps when turned sideways or upside down.  Warped glass will not rock if placed against the clamps one way and it will rock if it is put up against the clamps another way.  I tighten the triple clamp bolts to keep them in alignment.

Now, I put on the front wheel and tighten the front wheel axle nut to the correct torque setting.  I leave the clamp bolt loose on the bottom of the other fork tube.  I raise the front wheel to almost full compression and set it on a crate.  I grab the loose fork tube and wiggle it back and forth to center it on the front axle.  Then I torque down the Allen bolt and both tubes are now clamped to the axle.

Next I measure the gap between the inside of the fork tube and the wheel spacer and I write it down in my notebook.  I will space the fork tube this distance from the wheel spacer in the future when I change tires, etc.

Now I check to make sure that my front fender and fork brace do not spread the forks apart or pull them together.  Occasionally shims or grinding are needed to make them fit.  The last step is to refit the springs and to fill the forks with oil.

 

 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: oz on July 27, 2009, 02:41:11 PM
Nessecity "I am sure i have spelt that wrong" is the mother of invention nicely done. Broken taps are a real pain i have used the same method and its usually on the last hole you were going to tap,worse still if its a blind hole.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 28, 2009, 01:57:14 AM
Yes, it was the last hole where everything went bad.  The longer swingarm was put on this weekend with the longer chain, chaingaurd, brake hose, shocks and fender.  This afternoon I took it out on our local mountain route for a good thrash after work.  I was expecting it to be slow handling but stable, sort of like the Titanic.  I was wrong.  Instead, it was very stable with light precise handling and good roadholding.  Very fast because I did not need to slow down much for corners.  Tomorrow I will take it to Portland and back on the interstate for a final high speed test.  Then, an engine tune and service, and the street hardware will come off and the tin will go on.

The chassis changes this year are based on advice from experts who race these things, posts on this forum, and my desire to try new ideas.  In the past I increased rake to get more trail and stability.  On this build I did not change the rake.  Instead I made some triple clamps to decrease the offset.  This increased the trail.  The final result was a bike that was stable and handled well.  It did not have the heavy steering associated with lots of rake.  The swingarm was lengthened three inches and the overall percentage of trail to wheelbase is 8 percent.

This is my first experience with radial tires.  They grip really good and they work best with a fluid and smooth cornering style.  Lateral chassis stability is very important with these tires.  The Triumph frame and modified swingarm are plenty strong but the forks were flexy. Making the forks stiffer using the new clamps helped a lot.  It took that change to bring out the best in the radial tires.

The real test will be at the Speed Trials.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 30, 2009, 10:14:24 PM
The new triple clamps should grip the fork tubes as tightly as the original Triumph items.  Triumph use galvanized 10 millimeter diameter by 1.25 millimeter pitch Allen bolts with a 27 Newton-meter dry tightening torque.  What is the gripping force, I wonder?

I download a tightening torque chart from www.rpmmech.com/docs/tightening_torque.pdf   These charts are not uncommon in the mechanical engineering world.  The metric unit chart for M10x1.25 bolts lists the clamp loads for various strength bolts.  I plot them up as shown on the attached chart.  A 13.5 kiloNewton (3030 pound) load corresponds to a 27 Newton-meter tightening torque.

It is during the 4th July weekend when I do this and in a patriotic moment I decide to use American size bolts in the new clamps.  Three eighths inch diameter bolts with Unified National Fine (UNF) threads are similar to the metric size.  I am not thinking clearly and I drill and tap the holes for 5/16 inch diameter bolts with Unified National Coarse (UNC) threads.  A smaller size.  Then I helicoil the threads.  This makes it almost impossible to make the holes bigger for the 3/8 inch bolts.  What do I do?

I download the tightening chart from RPM Mechanical for 5/16 UNC bolts and plot up the clamp loads for various torques as shown on the attachment.  A 15.5 foot-pound tightening torque corresponds to a 3030 pound clamp load.  These charts are for typical galvanized bolts with clean, dry, and rolled threads in good condition.  I will use anti-seize, a lubricant.  A rule-of thumb is to reduce the bolt torque when the threads are lubed.  I use a typical reduction value of 75%.  The tightening torque will be .75 x 15.5 = 11.6 foot-pounds.  I will use 12 foot-pounds.  It is easier to remember.

Tensile stresses in the bolts produces the clamp loads and the clamp loads make the gripping power.  A Grade 2 5/16 NC bolt produces a 2162 pound clamp force, maximum, using the RPM Mechanical chart.  It is too weak.  A Grade 5 bolt produces 3341 pounds clamping force, maximum.  This exceeds the 3030 pound clamp load that I need, so Grade 5 bolts will be used.

The helicoils are stainless steel and I like to use stainless bolts.  Thread galling can be a problem with stainless steel bolts tightened greater than Grade 3 limits, based on my experience.  The situation is worse when the threaded parts are similar stainless alloys, and the bolts and helicoils are.  The anti-sieze will prevent this problem but I might forget to use it.  I will use galvanized Grade 5 carbon steel bolts.  This should work OK with no seizing, I hope.

The attachments are too big.  I will shrink them and include them in the next reply.
   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 30, 2009, 10:37:06 PM
There must be a way to reduce a scanned chart to less than 500 KB, but I cannot figure it out.  Instead I took photos, cropped them and here they are.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: manta22 on July 30, 2009, 11:03:57 PM
Wobbly;

Ultimate tensile strength and clamping force are one thing but consider the fatigue strength of a bolt operating at close to its ultimate limit-- I'd use a grade 8 bolt instead of a grade 5; the difference in cost is small but the additional safety is worth a lot.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 31, 2009, 07:09:08 PM
Thanks for this advice.  Grade 8 it will be. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 07, 2009, 12:16:36 AM
The crush and removal method for a broken tap was presented in a recent build diary entry.  This procedure can be used for other purposes.

The Triumph steering head bearings were replaced several months ago.  The bottom bearing outer race was easily removed using a slide hammer bearing puller.  The top outer race was a different matter.  The flange that supported the race had the same inner diameter as the race.  The bearing puller could not hook under the race.  What was Triumph thing about when they designed this?

Several removal methods were tried and none worked.  As a last resort, a section of the race was ground 'paper thin" with the air grinder.  Care was used to assure that none of the surrounding housing was disturbed.  The thin part of the race was whacked with a center punch.  The hardened race steel was brittle and it shattered.  The bearing race was easily pried out.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on August 07, 2009, 08:37:31 AM
Another commonly used method is to run a weld bead around the inside of the race. When the race cools it shrinks and simply falls out.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 08, 2009, 01:42:00 PM
Does the weld method work with arc, gas, or either?  It sure seems to be a quicker procedure than the one I used.  Especially for larger bearing races.

A few entries ago I mentioned how I damaged a helical coil insert and how I broke a tap inside of the coil when I tried to clean up the threads.  I was cleaning the threads because the triple clamp bolts were binding in the coil inserts.  I did some asking around and research.  This is what I learned.

Helical coil inserts, like everything else, have their good and bad aspects.  They are very sensitive to the quality of the leading edge of the first screw thread that contacts the coil.  In general, there are few problems with manufactured bolts having undamaged rolled threads.  Being a cheapskate, I did not buy new bolts of the correct length for this project.  Instead, I used a sawzall to shorten a bunch of rolled thread bolts that were left over from an earlier project.  Then tried to grind and trim the bolt ends to the correct shape.  It was hard to do and it was especially difficult with the stainless steel bolts I used.  The leading edges of the bolt threads were far from perfect.  I bought some Grade 8 bolts with rolled threads in the correct length and it was readily apparent.  The untrimmed bolts did not bind in the coil inserts, unlike my trimmed bolts.

Fixing the stripped threads where I removed the tap and helicoil was a problem.  Most of the 5/16 x 18 threaded inserts I found had external threads with 1/2 inch or 7/16 outside diameters.  Drilling and tapping for these inserts would make the bolt hole too large where the bottom of the Allen head screw contacts the clamp.  Eventually I found some narrow inserts called Time Serts.  I ground the shoulder off of the upper end of the Time-Sert.  The ground shoulder had the same diameter as the outside diameter of the Time-Sert threads.  Then I drilled the unthreaded portion of the triple clamp hole under the bolt head to 25/64 inches diameter.  The Time-Sert would fit through this hole, barely.  Next, I drilled and tapped the threaded portion of the hole with the Time-Sert drill and tap.  Now I installed the insert.

The Time-Sert works OK.  I was able to tighten the Allen bolt to the correct torque and the fork tube is firmly clamped in place.  In hindsight, I would have used Time-Serts in all of the holes, initially, instead of helical coil inserts.   

Tser would   Then I drilled the hole in the nonthreaded portion of the clamp to the same diameter.  Next, I drilled and tapped the threaded portion of the bolt hole for the Time-Sert.hreaded the o to outer mushroo   Allen head aand the hole I could install one of these, but the Allen bolt aleen  f g the

bolI got by with this shortenin  ilI had fron an earlisawed the had a bunch of  that are .  scoi


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on August 08, 2009, 05:19:31 PM
Either should work. I usually use either tig or mig. The problem with the gas is that you want to heat the race to red without transferring a lot of heat to the seat. What you're actually accomplishing is shrinking the seat. That's why you let everything cool before dropping the seat out.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 11, 2009, 01:27:55 AM
The fork bolts are all figured out, everything is tested on the street, and its time to prepare for the Speed Trials.  A day or so spent at preventing corrosion now will save many days spent on restoration later.

Lots of salt and brine gets kicked up by the back wheel.  I make a full coverage fender liner out of duck tape.  All of the gaps and cracks around the fender edges are sealed.  The shocks are covered, too.

The rims are taped.  Masking tape is used.  It is easier to mold around the spokes than duck tape.

There is a lot of aluminum on this bike.  The inside of all metalwork is sprayed with ACF 50.  It is expensive but it does what I want it to do.  I get it at the local airport.  I spray ACF-50 all around under the engine and on the oil radiator.  Then I take off the countershaft cover and spray it in there.

The metalwork outsides get a good coat of wax.

I peel off the tape right after I get home.  It is easier to do then.  The tape glue adheres to the bike, rather than the tape, if I wait too long.  Power washers, especially on the hot setting, make a steamy salty spray and they will get salt into everything.  Lots of cold running water works best with no spraying.  I like to carefully wash the salt down.  To do this, I start at the top of the bike and work downward.

 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 13, 2009, 07:28:59 PM
My street test route has a long, steep, and straight downhill section.  I head down it and I remove my hands from the handlebars.  I need to lean to one side to keep the bike going straight.  This tells me the front and rear wheels are not aligned.

I used the index marks on the swingarm and chain adjusters when I set the chain tension.  Perhaps the marks are no longer properly aligned.  The swingarm was extended and some things must have been slightly out of place when everything was welded together.  Now the string procedure is needed to align the rear wheel.  The rims need to be true and the tires must to be correctly seated on the rims if this procedure is to work.  They are, so I am ready.  I hunt around for some string.  Some mason's twine will work fine.

I wrap the string around the front and rear wheels, then I look down the string on each side of the bike.  The front tire is not as wide as the rear, so this is what I want to see:  the string wraps around the front edges of the front tire, it passes by the rear edges of the front tire with gaps between the string and the tire (the gaps are the same on either side), it bends slightly where it passes over the front edge of the rear tire (the bends are the same on both sides), an it wraps around the rear of the rear tire.

I do not see what I desire.  The string on one side is bent a lot where it passes by the rear tire, and the string on the other side is straight.  The wheels are out of alignment.  Now I tighten one of the chain adjuster bolts until the bends in the string are the same on both sides.  I check the chain tension and then I tighten the axle nut and safety wire it.

The string is a pain to use every time I adjust the chain.  I measure the gaps between the chain adjusters and the swingarm on both sides of the bike with dial calipers.  The gap on one side is 0.050 inches greater than the gap on the other side.  I write this down in my notebook.  Now, every time I adjust the chain I make sure the gap on one side is 0.050 inches more than the gap on the opposite side.  This will keep the wheels in alignment.   

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 16, 2009, 12:26:33 PM
The "New Economic Reality" hit our household today.  We work the in the same jobs as always, with the same responsibilities and worries, and a lot less pay.  It looks like the Triumf and Honda will be thrashed, bashed, and crashed for at least a few more years.  Joe Amo's record on his old bike really raised our team morale.  Along the theme of low budget, here is the compressor story.

We did not have air in the cellar for years.  Sears had a little one-horsepower three-gallon compressor for sale a few years ago.  A good price, so I bought it.  It was too small to do much besides inflate tires and blow the dust off of parts.  It was pretty useless, really.  I did not have the space and money for a big compressor, and I had all of $100 invested in the little guy.

My wife and I watched for sales at Sears.  Months later the compressors were marked down.  It was time to strike.  We came home with a nice shiny one-horsepower seven-gallon compressor.  This is a fairly useless tool by itself, but it does not work alone.  Both compressors are hooked together with a hose and they work like a two-horsepower ten-gallon job.  They have enough blow to run all of my air tools with no problems.  The picture shows them together on the floor.  Actually, most of the time they are crammed up on a shelf under a heating duct.  It is easy to find room for two small compressors.  We take the little one with us to Bonneville. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 22, 2009, 01:06:01 AM
A tethered ignition cut-off switch kills the engine when you fall off of the bike.  They are required by the BUB Speed Trials rules and they are a good idea, even if they are not mandatory.  There are two types.  The choice depends on the power generation system for the ignition. 

Werner needs to fit a tethered switch to his Honda.  The key switch for the ignition will be replaced.  He uses a multimeter to determine that current does not flow through the key switch when it is turned on.  He will use a "magneto" type tethered switch.  Current does not pass through the magneto switch during normal operation and the switch conducts current when the lanyard is pulled.  Werner uses an EMGO tethered switch.  He ordered it from Pingel.

The Triumph has an alternator and battery ignition.  It uses an "alternator" type tethered switch.  Current passes through the switch during normal operation and current is blocked when the lanyard is pulled.  The Triumph switch is homemade.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on August 22, 2009, 12:20:55 PM
sometimes those cheap ones will make or break a
connection with a slight movement of the red cap.

franey


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 23, 2009, 01:00:03 PM
Thanks for the advice.  Werner got a good one but he will be careful.

The BUB/AMA rules require a steering damper.  The Triumph uses a Norman Hyde shock absorber type.  It works good.  There is no room on Werner's Honda for this damper type so we ordered a Scott"s rotary style damper.  The damper body is clamped to the handlebars.  A peg is clamped to the frame at the top of the steering head.  A lever transmits force between the peg and a spindle in the damper.

We sent out a small fortune to order this thing and it arrived in a little box complete with installation instructions for another type of Honda.  We filed and ground on various parts and finally got it to fit.  It worked great in the driveway.  Werner took the bike out into the dez for a trail ride.  The peg shifted up off of the steering stem and the damper would not work.  We rechecked the tightness of the clamp around the top of the steering stem and he went out again.   The same problem occurred.  Werner made some "L" shaped tabs and he screwed them on either side if the peg clamp.  Then he bent a rod into a "U" shape and threaded the ends.  The rod goes around the bottom of the steering head.  The peg does not come loose now.

Werner is young and curious.  He turned the damping screws in and out.  We wanted to reset the high speed damping back to the default setting but there are no instructions about how to do this.  We guessed at a setting.

The BUB/AMA rules state that the damper cannot act as a fork stop.  The damper, as supplied by Scott's, was the fork stop.  This is another piece of poor engineering.  I made a little two piece block that clamps over the original Honda fork stop.  It makes the stop wider.  Now the triple clamp stop tabs contact the frame.

The low speed damper knob does not turn.  There is some sort of defect.  We will take it apart this winter and we will fix it.  This damper gets the official Team Go Dog, Go recommendation for material that needs to be melted down and made into something useful.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 26, 2009, 01:02:17 AM
A final check.  This is done about three weeks before we leave, ideally.  I do the same routine every year.  The bike is uncovered and I get out the big gear bag.  It is empty and it has enough room for all of my riding gear and it has a pouch in the side for papers.  I find the current rule book.  Emphasis is on "current."  I have read it while building the bike and I reread every section that applies to the bike and myself, including rules of conduct, etc.  I make sure all of my riding gear is OK and I put it in the bag.  The helmet certifications have changed.  My old lid is obsolete.  I go out and buy a new one.  I check everything on the bike to make sure it meets the rules.  Then I make sure all of the correct paperwork is in the bag.  A few years ago I got a copy of the BUB Scrutineer's checklist.  Now I also check that everything is OK on the bike and my riding gear using the Scrutineer's list.  Last, I check the BUB rider's handbook.

It is amazing what I find during these final checks.  We think everything is OK before the check, but things are overlooked.  We sawed off two inches of Werner's rear fender.  It stuck out past the back of the wheel.  We made a chain guard.  A task that we forgot to do.  I drained the gas out of the Triumph.  Now we are ready to go. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 06, 2009, 06:54:58 PM
Werner ran just over 60mph on his bike for an AMA record in his class.  I am a proud father and I will let him post his own story.

The Triumph was ready, sort of.  The cam chain is badly worn.  I discovered this during a last minute valve adjustment.  The cam trailed several degrees behind the crank.  I heard the chain whipping around when I rode the bike but I did not know how serious the problem was.  My plan was to make two runs, maximum.  It was not worth the danger of a broken chain to make any more.

In the past I wound out forth gear and made a high speed shift to fifth.  This made the bike jiggle and increased the chances of a high speed wobble.  I would not do this anymore.  Also, I would slowly reduce the power during the mile after the traps.  This would keep the bike's nose high and it would reduce the chance of a wobble.  I would pull of of the course between mile 4 and 5.  Also, I would tuck down and look through the windshield.  I was always afraid to do this in the past.  I practiced it this summer on the street.  I am used to doing it.

The last year's last run ended in a bad speed wobble.  I have raced enough now to know how dangerous it really is. This was a new chassis setup and I did not know how it would act.  I was really scared and I wanted to puke while I was at mile 0 and waiting my turn to go.  The starter flagged me to the line and my head cleared.   He waved me off.  I slowly accelerated through all five gears.  At mile 1.5 Bonnie was at about 5,000 rpm in fifth at half throttle.  I made sure I was pointed straight down the middle of the course, I snuggled down behind the shield, and I pulled the throttle to the stop.  The bike moved out.  It was at top speed just before mile 2 pulling 7,000 rpm.  This is the perfect engine speed for sustained use.  Everything was dead steady.  No goofy handling.  I zinged through the traps and slowed the bike down under power.  No speed wobble.  I was still alive and very happy.  On the salt I cannot tell how fast I am going.  My daughter, Gretchen, brought me the timing slip.  127 mph.  This was 7 mph faster than last year.  I could not believe it.

Now for the return run.  I did exactly what I did before.  I had my hand on the clutch lever.  I would pull it in quick if the cam chain snapped.  The engine stayed together.  123 mph against a 4 mph headwind.  They measured the engine in impound on Tuesday afternoon and it passed.  790 cc is well below the 1000 cc class limit.

I looked at the data on the timing slips and I thought about it while driving back to Oregon.  We had no money for engine work and none was done.  The engine is the same as last year with 6,000 additional street miles.  The changes that possibly increased speed are lower bars from a 2009 Thruxton so I can tuck better, Nology ignition coils and wires, a Metzeler radial front tire, and the new streamlined back end.

Lots of folks helped me and I have thanked them personally or I will thank them soon.  Thanks to all that have helped me on this forum, either by direct advice or by posting things for others that have helped me.  These were the fastest times of my life and it was on a steady handling bike.  It does not get better than this.   
 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Cole222 on September 06, 2009, 08:47:25 PM
It was nice to meet you and Werner: Congratulations to both of you for a successful week!
Cole


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 07, 2009, 02:17:18 PM
Thanks, Cole.  We left on Wednesday morning.  We had to get home for family matters.  Werner's record held.  A really fast Ducate ran in my class on Wednesday afternoon and Thursday.  The days of records for me are over.  I race for personal bests and fun from now on.

This winter the engine will get some stronger rods, an 865cc kit with 10.5 to 1 compression, and a new cam chain.  Tom Mellor gave our pit helpers some advice on aero.  They told me what he suggested.  The fairing will be redone this winter.  This build diary will show the basics of engine teardown and the other things we do.

Werner is not sure about what he wants to do for next year.  Tell us how you did.  Your turbo Triumph looks to be real interesting.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 10, 2009, 11:33:45 PM
A good racing chain is an investment.  Salt is very corrosive to chains.  The crystalline structures of the chain's hardened surfaces are especially susceptible to rusting.

Initially, the chain is lubed with a light oil that is rich in moly, graphite, or both.  I use an oil for machine guns that my oldest son found at the local army surplus store.  A hot machine gun mechanism has heat and impact like a racing chain, in my thinking.

A noted racer mentioned in this forum the use of WD40 to lube chains between runs.  This is a good idea.  WD40 is designed to displace water and it is especially useful if the chain is moist or wet.  Unfortunately, WD40 is not designed to be a really high performance lubricant, and I apply another application of gun oil over it if I am energetic.

The chain is pulled off immediately after the last run and it is put into a plastic bag.  I fill the bag with water as shown in the photo.  The water dissolves the salt.  I use a non O-ring chain so the water can get in between the rollers.  Sometimes I use a double rinse if the chain is very salty.  Then I hang the chain up to dry, as shown.  The dry chain is oiled, wrapped in oily paper, and tucked away for next year.  This method works well.  The chain will give me a lot of good service.  It might last longer than me.
 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 20, 2009, 11:34:16 PM
The Speed Trials records were posted.  The 125 mph average we ran this this year was not good enough to keep the record.  Especially when the competition ran over 180 mph.  Ouch!  No more records for me.  I race for grins and giggles now.

Awhile back I brought a few little Bonneville salt chunks home for keepsakes.  I could not figure out where to put them so I laid them on the back porch railing.  They slowly disappeared.  I noticed that during more humid days there was moisture or a small puddle under the salt.

The salt absorbed water from the atmosphere.  Some of the salt dissolved when enough water was absorbed.  The salt water soaked into the wood.  The salt did not disappear, it simply changed location.  Now it is in the wood.

This is what happens to a salty bike in a humid climate.  The salt dissolves into a liquid and it penetrates into the cracks and crevices.  It seeps under plating and it gets into electrical components.  This salt water is very corrosive.  A lot of the dry salt we see in mechanisms was originally salt water that seeped in previously and the water has since evaporated.

The trick to minimize damage is to get the salt off of the bike pronto.  I take the bike apart enough to get into all the cracks and crevices with lots of cold running water.  I do not splash water onto electrical parts.  Then I clean and wax everything, lube as needed, and put it all back together.  This takes a whole bunch of time when I would rather be doing something else but it saves money and work in the long term.  The Triumph is a crusty crustacean when I bring it back from the speed trials and I get it cleaned up within two or three weeks.  The reward is worth it.  There is nothing like a clean shiny bike ready to go for the last few weeks of warm weather.  Two photos are shown to provide inspiration.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 25, 2009, 11:05:46 AM
Street tires were needed to replace the knobbys on Werner's bike.  A 300 x 19 rib front and a 3.50 x 16 block pattern rear, to be exact.  None of the local shops had them.  We could order a front tire from a high quality manufacturer but it would cost a lot of money that we did not have.  We resorted to one of the modern era's most useful tools, the internet.  It ranks right up there with the twist-off beer bottle cap.  We searched all of the major internet tire suppliers and had no luck.  No value-oriented, otherwise known as cheap, tires. 

A senior engineer at my job showed me a trick a few years ago, and it is the topic of this post.  It is to type into a search engine any numbers or words unique to the item I am looking for.  I typed in "300 x 19" and "3.50 x 16."  I scanned the info that came up and I figured out that Chen Shing made some tires in this size at one time but they no longer make street tires.  I found a source for the front tire.  Domiracer had one in stock.  Voila, half of the problem was solved.  I also found the Ching Shen model number for the rear tire.  I typed it in and found a tire listed by some folks who sold Sears Allstate bike parts.  Allstates had twin cylinder engines made by Puke of Germany with two pistons sharing a common combustion chamber.  These "twingles" were really good bikes, as I remember.  They had the rear tire in stock.  Problem solved.

This little trick has saved me a lot of time over the years.

  made sining made some at one time, but they no longer make street tires, and we found the old Cheng Shen tire model number..  We

A senior engineer at my job showed me a trick years ago, and it is the topic of this post.  Heenginsome  cheaopo turned to the internet.    q some f and


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 04, 2009, 10:24:49 PM
The Triumph in this build diary is a 2003 T-100 790cc twin.  Later they were enlarged to 865cc and they were fitted with bigger carbs.  A really clean, stored indoors, very low mileage example is for sale at Cascade Moto-Classics in Beaverton, Oregon info@cascademoto.com (503) 574-3353

This bike is black and red and it is the last model with carburettors and the last made completely in England.   The airbox restrictor plates are removed and it has Norman Hyde Toga pipes.  Maximum torque is 52.28 lbs-ft at 5,900 rpm and 62.52 hp at 7,100 rpm.  These are good numbers for a near-standard T-100.  I know about this bike's history, and unlike mine, this bike has not been thrashed or raced.  It will make someone a happy owner.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 06, 2009, 11:08:39 PM
Lots of copper washers are used when the Triumph is switched from street bike to salt dog and back to road trim.  Oil drain washers, brake line washers, etc.  The old washers are compressed and work hardened.  They are not good at sealing when they are in this state.  I put the used washers on a wire and heat them up to orange hot.  Then I dunk them in water.  This anneals them, makes them soft, and they are ready to be used again.  I keep the washers on two metal clips.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 12, 2009, 10:32:14 PM
It is time to do some engine work on the Bonneville.  The cam chain is worn and whipping around, and the standard pistons and rods have been run for three years at Bonneville and 21,000 miles on the street.  The 2008 runs were real brutal.  Compression is fine and there is no piston slap. I simply want to put in racing quality components.  A fragged piston or snapped rod would end my land speed career.

The big decision.  Should I build a hot engine and go for records in my 1,000cc modern engine classes?  Should I build a strong, but not radical, street motor?  All of us face this decision.  I have a few times.  A hot engine requires a lot of money, hours with the spanners, and maintenance.  This time, for once in my life, I decided to put thought before action.

The benchmark in my class, a threat to all records I could attempt or set, would be a new BMW S 1000 RR.  I would have to equal or exceed this bike.  Advertised specs are 190.42 horsepower at 13,000 rpm for an engine just under 1,000 cc.

Consider volumetric efficiency.  I could bore and stroke the Triumph out to 1,000 cc and produce 120 hp, naturally aspirated.  This would take lots of money and I would need to tear it down after every session on the salt to check the bearings, etc.  Volumetric efficiency would be about 120 hp per liter.  The BMW has about 190 hp per liter when you roll it off the showroom floor.

Let's look at redline rpm.  Assuming two engines have equal volumetric efficiency, the one with a higher redline can run gearing with a greater numerical ratio.  This engine will exert more leverage on the track and it can go faster.  Right now I run the Bonnie between 7,000 and 8,000 rpm through the mile.  Folks with higher tuned Bonnies stretch them out to 9,000 rpm.  The BMW, out of the crate, has an advertised redline of 13,000 rpm.  Clearly, the Bonnie has no hope of being a serious land speed racer.  This has been for awhile, and is getting to be more so, the era of the four.

The one thing the Bonnie is real good at is racing for the pleasure of going faster every year.  It is relatively easy to work on and not very expensive to hop up.  Besides, it is paid for and a harmless old guy on a slow bike can run in most events.  Elvington and Lake Gairdner await.

This winter the engine rebuild will be posted.  It will be basic, but folks who have not torn down a motor might learn something.  Lots of younger people have not taken an engine apart.  It will be awhile.  I have to save up money for the parts.   



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 13, 2009, 10:39:05 PM
This Bonneville has never idled smoothly and occasionally it dies at stoplights.  Porting the engine and installing pod air filters made it worse.  Just before the BUB Trials, I remembered a trick we used on BSA's, Triumphs, and Nortens years ago.  It works on twins whose pistons go up and down together and fire on alternate strokes.  I have also used it on four cylinder Hondas, cylinders 1 and 4 are connected and 2 and 3.

First, I drill and tap a hose fitting on each manifold.  They should be the same distance from the intake valve on each cylinder.  The Triumph has these already installed at the factory.  Then, I synchronize the carbs with a vacuum gauge.  Last, I do not cap the hose fittings.  Instead, I connect the two pipe fittings with a piece of fuel line.

This little fix smoothed out the Triumph and gave 2 or 3 more miles per gallon.  This is not unusual. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 17, 2009, 02:37:50 PM
Economic reality being what it is, the engine project is now the bare minimum that is needed to race next year.  A new cam chain will be installed, along with new racing rods and larger high compression pistons.

Land speed racing puts a lot of strain on the engine.  Triumph pistons are forged.  I do not know about their long term durability, although they have been OK so far.  I do not want to take chances.  Racing grade pistons are not available in the 790 cc size, but there are some for the 865 cc engines.  I looked at the cost of boring out the 790 jugs and putting in sleeves for 865 cc pistons.  The sleeves would be steel or iron.  The Triumph cylinders are not sleeved.  The bores are a hard plating on the casting and this gives excellent heat dissipation.  I do not want to have a seizure on the salt, and learn the hard way, why Triumph does the things they do.  I ordered a new set of 865 barrels.  They are the same casting as the 790 cc jug with bigger holes.

I could order the pistons directly from South Bay Triumph and put them in myself.  Barrels and pistons are manufactured items and it can be assumed they will be slightly bigger or smaller than the design dimensions. I will send the barrels down to South Bay and ask them to fit a set of pistons and to make sure the skirt to barrel clearances are the best that they can be.  This will be work for them and I will gladly pay for it.  South Bay has Carillo racing rods.  I will order a set, also.

Rod and crank bearings are plain shell inserts.  The crank is hard plated and it cannot be ground to fit undersize shells.  I always put in new shells regardless of whether or not they are worn beyond the limits.  My goal is to get maximum life from the expensive crankshaft.  Oil filters do not sieve out all of the abrasive contaminants.  Some get through and they inbed themselves in the soft bearing shells.  These particles can grind away at the crank journals and reduce their life.  New bearing shells, renewed periodically, can save $ in the long run.

In past years when I had more money and less time, I would send the crank and cases out to a shop with a stock of bearings and ask them to fit them.  These Triumphs are so reliable that our local dealer does not have bearing shells.  I will need to send the engine parts far away.  Now, with more time and less money, I will save shipping costs by bringing the crank, cases, and rods down to our local machine shop.  They will measure them and I will order the right sizes.

All of this takes some planning at the kitchen table.  I read the engine section of the manual completely and order all of the parts they say should be replaced, such as lock washers, gaskets, seals, etc.  I make sure that I will have all of the tools that I need.  I order all of the stuff that I know I will need beforehand.  This minimizes downtime. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 19, 2009, 12:45:32 AM
It will take a few months to save up the money for rods and pistons.  Now is the perfect time to work on streamlining the streamlining.  Looking at the bike from above, the fairing lower half has a wedge shape with the pointy end facing forward.  This seemed like a good idea at the time.  Now I know better.  The streamlining should give the bike an egg shape with the blunt end facing forward.  The fairing sides need to be curved inward.

Sheet metal must be removed from the rear of the the fairing side.  The rivet line between the old and new sections should match the rest of the fairing.  Tape is laid across the fairing using a trial and error method.  Finally a nice looking seam is marked.  The sheet metal is cut away to the rear of the tape line.

The aluminum bar at the upper fairing edge needs to be bent in a gentle inward curve.  The bar has lightening holes in it.  The metal will tear at the outside of the bend near a lightening hole if I am not careful.  I need to keep the metal on the outside of the bend from stretching while I compress the metal on the inside of the bend.  A steel strap is tightly clamped on both sides of the bend to the outside edge of the bar.  It will not stretch.  The bar is annealed on the inside of the bend.  Lots of force is used three times, with three heatings, to bend the bar into a gentle curve.  Compression bending is a lot of work, but there is no danger of overstretching the bar on the outside of the bend.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 22, 2009, 01:22:36 AM
In my youth I had more strength than brains.  I did a lot of cold bending.  This takes a lot of force and often the items a part is attached to are bent while straightening the desired piece.  Then I discovered heat.  I heated all sorts of parts to red or orange hot and bent them with little force.  Unfortunately I annealed them and they lost their temper and strength.  Some alloys did not glow red hot.  Instead, they did not glow at all, then they got hot enough and they melted.  I learned not to take the torch to parts with "magnesium" stamped on them.

I did learn that a little heat combined with moderate force works best.  My usual method now is to:  clamp the part so the sections that are not to be bent are fixed in place, apply moderate pressure to the part and at the same time apply heat, heat and apply force until the metal relaxes into the desired position, and remove the heat and force.  I use as little heat as possible so the metal does not lose its temper.  Often I do not know how the metal will act.  I start with propane and see if it will do the job.  Then, I use a hotter gas like map gas, if needed.

This method seems to take three or four hands; one or two to steady the work, one to apply the bending force, and one to hold the torch.  Unfortunately, I am not a four handed monkey, so I use all sorts of straps to act as surrogate hands.  The pictures show some methods I used to bend a piece on the Triumph fairing.  Note the little bending tool I made from a bearing puller.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 29, 2009, 09:38:40 PM
The aluminum frame started out being the bare minimum that was needed to hang the sheet metal on the bike.  Then the bike was ridden over some rough roads and the fairing bounced and flexed around.  Braces were added as needed to stop the flexing.  Lots of drilling was used to minimize weight.  Backwoods engineering.

The thicker sheet aluminum is 0.030" thick.  It is used in stressed areas.  The remainder is 0.020" thick.  Thin 0.015" aluminum works, too.  It dents easily so I do not use it for this land speed fairing.  This thinner stock would be used for a drag or road race fairing.  Light weight is critical for these applications.  Welding 0.020" aluminum is too difficult for me.  I use pop rivets to join the panels.

The aluminum pieces are laid over each other like fish scales.  The upper edge of one plate overlaps the lower edge the other plate by 1/2 inch.  A guide bar is clamped on the fairing to show me the curvature and location of the far edge of the plate row.  Arrows are drawn on the bar to show me where each plate corner should be.  Plates are shaped and added, one by one, until the row is complete.  The guide bar is moved so it lines up with the edge of the next row, and the procedure is repeated.

I could use a lot fewer and bigger plates than I do.  The bigger ones take a lot more skill and patience to make than I have.  I do this after work in the evenings when I am tired and my thinking is done for the day.

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 02, 2009, 12:55:42 AM
A local shop is interested in Werner's racing.  They asked him for a resume.  It is not a job resume.  They want to sponsor him.  Does anyone know how to write a sponsor resume?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 1212FBGS on November 02, 2009, 03:55:01 AM
yep.....
kent


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 02, 2009, 10:14:25 PM
oh can you send us a copy of one that someone else did so we can see what we should do


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 04, 2009, 10:37:50 PM
The object of the fairing rebuild is to reduce the frontal area and to lower the drag coefficient.  The fairing has flared sides and this creates a large turbulent wake behind the bike.  Making this turbulence requires a lot of the engine's energy, and I have better uses for it, like going faster!

The bottom of the fairing remains flared.  It does this so my feet are kept in out of the wind.  The mid section curves around the engine.  The wind should be parallel to the bike's sides when it spills off from the fairing trailing edge.  One side of the fairing has been reworked in the photos and the other side remains flared.  The flared side will be rebuilt in the next few weeks so both sides will be matching.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 12, 2009, 11:33:49 PM
Beating up poor innocent metal pieces is a big part of Team Go Dog, Go.  We cannot buy much so we make everything we can.  The next few posts show the basics.  These are intended for folks starting out with racing.

Anvils are a good place to start.  I do not like to beat hardened steel on my anvil.  The struck object can leave a scar on the top face.  Also, I do not like to beat stuff with heavy blows on the anvil for the same reason.  A section of railroad rail is used for this rough work.  Not all train track is the same size,  this is a chunk of the Southern Pacific mainline through Salem.  It is nice and heavy and it does not slide about on the workbench.  The anvil is a Chinese job.  I said to myself "I'll buy this thing, how could anyone screw up when making an anvil?"  The grey paint covers a layer of filler over a very rough cast surface.  I should have bought an old American anvil.

Hammers are essential.  These are three ball peins of different weights.  Never hit the hammer directly on the anvil or track.  Always have some object between the two.

The little vice is a 4-inch model.  It is mounted on a workbench corner a few inches above belly button height.  This makes close and intricate work comfortable and easy to see.

The big bruiser is a 5-inch heavy duty model.  It is solidly mounted on a workbench at butt height.  The bench is solidly weighted down by the drill press, air compressors, the bench grinder, and all sorts of other junk.  The vice corner sticks out into the shop so it can be reached from three sides.  This low height and location makes the vice easy to use for heavy bending and other work.

Many of us are on a budget and these tools seem to be expensive.  They are when they are new and I buy some stuff retail.  A lot of my other tools are bought used, scrounged from old abandoned buildings, or given to me.  Tools do not need to be new and cost a lot to be good.  A lot of the old stuff is better quality. 



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 17, 2009, 11:15:17 PM
Fire is another tool.  The firewrench.  I have a couple of bottles of propane on hand.  This is a cooler burning gas and it is useful for annealing aluminum sheet, lighting barbecues and cigars, killing spiders, and other light work.  It is in the blue bottle in the photo.  The yellow bottle in the photo is full of map gas.  It burns hotter and it is the most useful for bending.  I use a lot of it.  In general, I find that using a hot torch is best.  I can work quickly and keep the heat in the desired area and it does not spread through the part.

A pencil tip is often sold in starter kits.  It is easily controlled and it is useful for soldering.  It is not much good for heating prior to bending.  It is shown in the photo attached to the propane bottle.  A heavy duty tip is most useful for heating and annealing.  I use it 90 percent of the time.  It is attached to the yellow bottle.  We call it the blowtorch.  The spreader works with the blowtorch to fan out the flame.  It is great for thawing pipes and burning off paint.

There are jets for these things.  They look like motorcycle main jets, and the correct jet needs to be used with each tip.  These torches are not expensive and I find it handy to set up separate pencil and blow torches.  This makes it much easier to change from one flame type to another.

There are some things to remember when using these tools.  First, have a fire extinguisher handy.  Second, be careful.  In an ideal world these torches will turn off when the valve is shut.  In reality, occasionally they will not close all of the way and the flame will retreat into the tip but it will not go out.  Also, sometimes the gas will leak out of the bottle if the torch is attached overnight.  I always unscrew the torch from the bottle immediately when I am finished.  In the next post some metal will be bent.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 26, 2009, 11:06:31 PM
Anyone who has made the aluminum bars like I use with the holes drilled in them knows how hard it is to bend them.  They tend to tear at the outside of the bends near a hole.  The cross-section is the smaller where there are holes and the bar is weaker.  The bars should be bent then drilled.

Sometimes a drilled bar needs to be bent.  Several posts previous I showed how to bend a bar with a piece of metal clamped to the outside edge.  This forces the inside edge to compress when the bar is bent.  Another way is to apply bending pressure and to heat the inside of the bend with map gas.  The heat will soften the metal on the inside and it will compress.  This will not work well with propane.  The hotter map gas is needed.  The photo shows the compressed sections near the holes on the inside of the bend.

The typical bench mounted swivel vise is too weak for bending metal.  The swivel tends to rotate.  Adding a brace prevents this.  The far end of the brace shown in the photo is clamped to the workbench.

In one photo I am heating the inside of a bend while I am pulling the bar toward me.  The orange tool I am using to pull the bar is a concrete reinforcing rod bender.  These are inexpensive and they can be bought from construction supply stores.  They are a handy tool for a fabricator.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dakzila on November 27, 2009, 12:30:45 PM
Wobbly,

Great thread..finally got a chance to read the whole thing this morning.

 Some really good info for a racers like me that only has a drill press, compressor, vice and a "fire wrench" (love that term, don't know why I've never heard it before) in the garage. 

Keep the updates coming....


Buzz


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 30, 2009, 01:46:50 AM
Thanks for the compliment, Buzz.  This was my wife Rose's idea.  She said us old folks can build all of this stuff but young people do not have shop classes available in school and often no guys around to show them things.

The next few posts are on metal shaping.  Most auto repair uses hand held dollies that are placed behind or under the car body and the hammer is hit against the other side of the metal.  Bike work typically involves taking the part off and working on it on a bench.  On-the-body and bench work use different tools and methods.  Bench work is discussed here.  The November 2009 "BSH" (Back Street Heroes) magazine has an article showing how a fender is made using an arbor press.  Borders bookstore has these British magazines.

A shot bag and pear mallet are basic shaping tools.  First, a piece of metal is cut out larger than the finished part.  It will be trimmed to final size later.  The edges are smoothed so they will not cut or abrade the bag.  The metal should be wiped clean before it is pounded.  Dirt will harm the tools.

Sheet metal is rolled into size and it has some temper due to work hardening.  It can be shaped to some degree on a shot bag without annealing.  There will come a time when it no longer stretches and forms under the mallet.  It has work hardened and it needs to be heated and annealed.  This should be done as needed, between shaping sessions, until the piece has its final shape.  Shot bags wear out fast if the mallet swinger wails on them.  It is best to use moderate effort and lots of heat.  I always cool the part before I put it on the bag.

A big 16" by 16" shot bag works best for me.  I have not had much luck with the little ones, although a 12" by 12" model did work OK in the past.  I have not had good results with the real small ones.  Shot bags and pear mallets can be found at www.eastwood.com and www.hammersource.com. 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 03, 2009, 10:15:02 PM
The finish hammer is used to make panels with very slight curvature.  It can make a very smooth panel if used with care.  In the past I used this method to hammer out some patch panels for a car fender.  The finish hammer has a very slight convex curvature on its round head.  Like all body work hammers, it should be used for body work, only.  Never strike the hammer directly against the anvil or dolly.

The backing can be an anvil, leather, or rubber.  It is good to experiment and see which works best for the metal and desired degree of curvature.  Leather, an anvil, and hard rubber were experimented with as backing for this panel.  This old piece of rubber conveyor belt worked best.  It provided the desired curve with hardly any hammer marks.

The first step is to cut the panel out to a size larger than the finished part.  It will be trimmed to size later.  I rarely anneal a part that is hammered to a slight curvature.  Usually I can get the curve I need without it.

Second, carefully hammer the part out.  Blows that are too heavy will leave rings.  Correct blows will leave small depressions.

Next, use a soft and flat rubber mallet to smooth out any imperfections.  The part can be trimmed, welded on and polished, or it can be lightly sanded and riveted on, as I have done with my panel.



 



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 07, 2009, 01:42:13 AM
A knife like sheet metal edge can be dangerous in a crash or other mishap.  It is best to fold the edge over a wire so it is not sharp.  This is easy to do on straight edges but it is a challenge on curves.  Here is how I do it.  First, the piece is cut out oversize.  The black felt pin line on the photo shows where the edge will be after the piece is finished. 

Next, the bend is started with a pair of pliers.  The metal is stiff.  The edge is annealed with map gas and it is bent some more.  Finally, the edge is bent as far as possible with pliers.  Sometimes the part starts to curl like a potato chip.  I anneal the wire, too, so it is pliable.  I always use an aluminum wire with an aluminum panel.  Both the sheet and wire should be the same metal.  I stuff the wire into the trough.

Now it is time to use the peck hammer.  This is a pointy hammer with a flat spot on the tip about 1/8 inch wide.  I peck the edge down and trap the wire inside.  Finally, I anneal the edge with map gas and I flatten the part with the round head.  All of this work takes a gentle touch.       

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 07, 2009, 01:43:54 AM
Two more photos.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 16, 2009, 09:29:17 PM
Is anyone familiar with the Hinckley Bonnevilles?  I need some help.

My plan was to install Carillo rods and 10.5 to 1 forged pistons this year.  No $$ for this.  Instead, I ordered another set of standard Triumph rods and 10.1 to 1 standard Triumph pistons.  My original set of rods and pistons has gone 20,000 street miles and ten runs down the salt and they look fine, but I am concerned about fatigue.  Hopefully the new standard parts will keep me racing for a few more years.

I gear the bike to run between 7,000 and 8,000 rpm flat out with 7,500 rpm being the target.  Does anyone have more experience with this?  Am I being too conservative?  Or, am I lucky that I have not blown the thing apart?

 



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: fredvance on December 16, 2009, 09:36:52 PM
You might contact Jon Minonno or Ed Mabry, they know more about LSR Triumphs than anybody.

  Fred


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: DSR Bruts on December 18, 2009, 11:11:38 PM
Wobbly, I comend you for doing a great job on your build site.  I am in the same position financially as alot of other guys who make their living selling aftermarket accessories and race parts......along with everyone else, so spending a little money this year is the same as spending alot of money last year.  I enjoy reading on how you do things....alot of wisdom.  I did all the metal work on my roadster starting with a totally junk body fished out of a dumpster and the frame from a old circle track racer....when I picked them up, both of the former owners just laughed and scratched their heads.  I scrounged the doors and built the deck lid and lower deck lid panel from scratch.  I want to skin the deck lid and louver it for looks, but haven't gotten good enough to do it yet....out of steel.  I learned alot hammer welding the body back together and straightening the frame.  I haven't done much aluminum work, but hammered out the tonneau cover last year, hamering it around the edge of the body, gently so I didn't bend the already painted bodywork.  I built my hood by bending it over the edge of a door piled up with steel with foam on the edges to get the right bend on the top, and made patterns for the sides and had them bent at a fab shop.  Thanks for the great bloog and great ideas.....Keep It Up!  Bill


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: SPARKY on December 19, 2009, 12:58:47 AM
As we progress with 2 II we will be spending a lot of time revisting yours and Willies sights over and over---thanks for taking the time to show us how to GITER done!!!!!!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 20, 2009, 02:03:40 PM
Its nice to see folks scrounging and fabricating.  There would be a lot fewer people racing if we did not do this.  My brother made driveable cars by welding together good parts of wrecked ones and I know how much work it is.  A lot.

The way I do things is not the best.  Instead it is based on some personal limitations.  I have only one good eye and I have poor depth perception when I am welding.  I simply cannot weld the thin 0.020 aluminum sheet.  Thick sheet that I can weld will make things too heavy.  Thus, the pop rivets.  My basement is really crowded.  A person with room in their shop can fabricate an english wheel to roll out the metal.  I typed "english wheel' onto the internet a while ago and saw all sorts of wheels and there was enough info for me to make the frame, at least.  Nice smooth curves like those on Marlo Triet's liner look like wheel work, but I do not know for sure.  Welding equipment and a wheel are good investments for a serious fabricator.

There are a few more sheet metal hammering posts on their way after I redo the pipes in the basement.  We had a lot break during the freeze.  I bypassed the breaks with garden hoses and parts from a defunct fish aquarium.  Cold water comes out of some hot faucets and vice versa.  It looks like a permanent fix to me and I can get back to working on the bike.  Unfortunately, the building inspection folks and my family have other ideas and I am redoing everything according to code.  The house is a hundred years old and the pipes are rusted up and funky.  There are some lead drain pipes.  I am keeping the lead and wrought iron drains for historical preservation and redoing everything else in new materials.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dakzila on December 21, 2009, 02:50:28 PM
Three words......

Relocate
Relocate
Relocate

It never snows (or gets cold) in Nevada or California)  :-D

I'm afraid if I lived up there I'd not get anything done come winter time.

Anyway hang in there and keep warm.  See you in the spring thaw....

Buzz


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 24, 2010, 07:14:29 PM
The end is in sight for the house repair.  It should be done in three weeks.  Then it will be time to torture innocent sheet metal and to redo the engine.  South Bay Triumph sent the cams out to be ground into the "316" profile.

There is a good article on South Bay Triumph's land speed record attempts and success at the 2009 BUB Trials in this month's (January) Motorcycle Sport and Leisure, a British magazine.  Alan Cathcart wrote the piece and he set the world records.  There is a lot of good info in there for anyone who races a Hinckley twin.

Team Go Dog, Go! is not mentioned in the article.  The Bonnie is the blue and white T-100 in one of the photos and I am the guy in the black shirt talking to an older gent.  The Bonneville is described as Tom Mellor's bike.  Tom's bike is much nicer than mine and it is #240.  Tom has had an influence on the Bonnie.  The fairing work done a few months ago is based on his advice. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on January 24, 2010, 07:59:53 PM
Right.......Relocate.....Relocate.......We go to Wrightwood, CA (in the mountains) during the summer.........
Go Apache Junction AZ. in the winter........and if we want rain we go to Hilversum, in the Netherlands.......
Hey, it's only money and you can't take it with you....................(Kent told me that...so I believe him).....

PS. Good luck with your Tri...........I have a Triple, and it is a great bike.......I also have a couple of "old"
Tri. Twins (1954....1966) for SALE for you Tri. lovers.....................................................................


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: joea on January 24, 2010, 10:52:37 PM
bak, can you send me some brownies next time your out there...?

im always much happier with their recipe.........than mine...


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on January 24, 2010, 11:35:33 PM
Yes, Joea......they know how to make them over there.....Health Food................................................


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: k.h. on January 25, 2010, 12:54:29 AM
bak, can we still buy 16-inch motorcycle tires for wire wheels, vintage sidecar type stuff? 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on January 25, 2010, 02:11:47 PM
Yes, you can.....on a annual basis Dunlap makes a limited run of 350-16 sidecar racing tires for use in Vintage Racing.........However they only come in the 350 size........A lot of us used a 275-16 on the front in the "old days"............................ but they are not being made......Check with your Dunlap M/C tire dealer.......................................


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: John Noonan on January 25, 2010, 02:36:48 PM
Yes, you can.....on a annual basis Dunlap makes a limited run of 350-16 sidecar racing tires for use in Vintage Racing.........However they only come in the 350 size........A lot of us used a 275-16 on the front in the "old days"............................ but they are not being made......Check with your Dunlap M/C tire dealer.......................................

Also may want to try the "Dunlop" dealers as well..


John


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: k.h. on January 25, 2010, 03:03:26 PM
Will do.  Regards,


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on January 25, 2010, 10:29:38 PM
Many years back at Daytona one of the great GP star riders of the time the late Barry Sheen from the UK.
had a rear tire blow while "at full chat" on the banking..........after that mishap he called them........
Dunflop tires...


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 31, 2010, 01:09:25 PM
It has been six months since my union signed the 2-year contract with the wage and hour cuts.  We are racing this year.  Our sponsors helped out, we are doing less work to the bikes than we planned, and we found some money to buy parts and the entry fees.  The unforseen side effects of the finding money part of this may interest others.  Its the off season, so why not?

A look at the monthly budget showed a lot of money spent on beer, fast food, and gasoline.  We are typical Americans.  My doctor wants me to qiut drinking.  This might be fatal.  Maybe he wants to get rid of me?  The beer got cut down to a six pack a week with a couple of extra cheater bottles.  Eight 12 oz bottles a week, max.  Money saved.

Next is gas (petrol).  One tank a month in the truck, max.  I have not been able to do this with the Bonneville apart, but I am getting close.  We make a monthly trip to the big city to shop.   We drive to the nearest streetcar station, buy a day pass, and use buses, trolleys, and streetcars to go all around Portland to all of the stores.  I will do this on the day of the N.W. Bonneville Reunion.  Its fun.  Sometimes I will do the same in Salem using my bicycle.  Salem is a lot smaller.  I use the internet to order some things to save long trips.  More $ saved.

Food.  The goal is no fast or restaurant victuals, except once a month.  The wife or husband also needs to do this to make it work.  Frozen food and premade stuff at the supermarket will not work.  It is as expensive as eating out.  We use basic raw ingredients on sale.  The doctor always tells me to eat healthy and he sends me to the clinic's diet expert.  She gives me a list of healthy things to cook and eat.  I put them in a drawer when I get home.  A quick rummage through the drawer, below the old cegars, candy bar wrappers, wine corks, and beer bottle openers were fifteen years of healthy food info.  I cannot remember more than a few things, so I memorized "no added salt, use olive oil instead of lard or butter, lots of fruit and veggies, and whole grains such as brown rice and whole wheat."

It takes time to cook this food.  It also took time to drive to, and wait at the burger basket and chicken shack.  Sort of breaks even, time wise.  As for money, it saves big dollars.  Last week I had saved enough to buy a pair of high compression racing pistons with teflon coating.  The thing that might interest members on this forum are the food part.  I still eat like a horse, but I am eating different food.  It is not a diet in this respect.  Diets are not successful for me in the long term for some reason, and this is.  I eat three meals a day and get full.  My tastes have changed so I actually prefer the healthy food and I feel a lot better.  Lots of walrus lard has been sacrificed to the gods of speed.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on January 31, 2010, 04:25:04 PM
One really big way to save dollars.........don't go to the doctor...........................................................
Money saved.....................................


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 04, 2010, 10:30:02 PM
The www.landracing.com stickers arrived by post a few days ago.  Thanks Slim.  They are definitely bumper stickers for a car or truck.  They are very big.  And so rectangular.  Egad.  What would they say in Paree'?  Its time for some style.

First, a sticker is cut and rearranged on a piece of white card stock.  This is the master.

Next, the paper is selected.  I use the el-cheapo sticker paper I bought for the children.  The stickers will last for a season.  Heavy duty decal paper is available on the internet.  It is much more expensive and it lasts a lot longer.

Next, the master is scanned into the computer as a jpg image.  Then the photo printing program is used to print out two images per page.  "Plain white" is selected as the paper type.

Finally the stickers are cut out of the sticker paper.  A little bit of the white paper is left attached to be a border.  Now we have motorcycle size stickers.





Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 14, 2010, 03:10:13 PM
My hearing is going bad, I think.  Last week my wife was talking to me a few times in conversations with the words "lamp" and "fix."  I do not remember much more than that.  This morning I went down to work on the fairing and there was a lampshade on it and a lamp on the workbench.  These must be visual cues that there is something I need to do right away.

The recent post about the landracing stickers addressed only a small part of the things that can be done with computer graphics.  This is another application.  Our local Triumph shop gives us a lot of help but they do not have a sticker or decal to put on the bike.  We scan one of their gift cards.  Then, we enlarge it on the computer screen in "Microsoft Paint."  Werner removes the "Gift Card" writing from the checkerboard area using Paint.  This week he will put a Triumph logo on the checkerboard pattern.  He will write "Triumph" in Microsoft Word and use cut and paste to put it on the checkerboard pattern.

The edited image can be used to make a sticker.  It can also be used on a decal.  Decal paper for computer printers is available and one source is www.decalpaper.com.  The decal can be printed, cut out, applied, and clear coated.  This is a great tool for the restorer.  As an example, a scratched decal on a sidecover or a picture in a book can be scanned, any damage "repaired" in Paint, and it can be reprinted as a new decal.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 14, 2010, 08:05:31 PM
Wobbly, where have I ever referred to the bumper stickers as anything BUT bumper stickers -- which, by my understanding, are rectangular.  There -- that's said.

Now -- I don't say that they shouldn't be cut up and used more artistically.  Look at a few of these photos and see what Debbie Dross did with ours production bike.

(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/SpeedWeek%202009/IMG_0699.jpg)

(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/SpeedWeek%202009/IMG_0728.jpg)

(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/SpeedWeek%202009/IMG_0608.jpg)

If I had the bike at hand I'd go around and shoot a few more photos -- but you see that we didn't hold to the rectangular-only stricture (that I didn't express, anyway).  If you want fancy shapes -- hey, the guys at Signs Unlimited can make anything you want - as can your local sign shop, no doubt.  Let us see what you come up with, please.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 20, 2010, 12:35:28 AM
That is a nice looking bike and stickers, Slim.  It is nice to see people running the big Kawasakis.

One of the last sheet metal beating posts showed how to use a finish hammer on a soft backing.  This is a good way to make gentle curves.  Sometimes a more severe curve is needed.  The dolly I use for this, most of the time, is a football dolly.  It has a spike on it that can be held in the hand or in a vice.  A piece of thick leather helps to keep it in place if it is vice mounted.  This dolly was bought at Harbor Freight.

Never strike the hammer directly on the dolly.  Always have some metal between the two.

The bump hammer is used.  This is one of my NAPA auto parts hammers.  The one in the photo has a slightly convex curvature on the round face.  The concave hammer face used with the convex dolly thins the metal without severe dents.  This is especially nice for a piece that will be polished.

A football shaped dent is made when striking sheet metal positioned over some areas of the dolly.  The football dents can be used to make pieces with varying degrees of curvature.  The drawing shows this.  The piece will curve more along one axis than the other.

The hammer is the "dumpy" style.  It has a short and compact head, and it is useful for working in tight places such as inside fenders. 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 20, 2010, 01:43:54 PM
The BUB regulations were e-mailed out to the folks on the list yesterday.   Experience has taught me to sit down by the fire in the rocker and to read every sentence and word that pertians to me and my class, and to do this right when I get the regs, not later.

Buried deep in the regs is a new change.  Production (P) engines are not allowed in special construction modified partial streamliners (APS).  My bike has been close to being an APS.  I decided to cross over the line and build it into a 1000cc APS-P for 2010.  An open class, at least until now.  Now I am in RWB class.

This is not good news for me, but I am learning about it now, and not later.  This will save me a lot of fabrication time and some money.  The message I have is, read the regs that apply to you completely, even the sections that you have read before many times.  Read them carefully, and do it as soon as they are sent out. 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on February 20, 2010, 01:56:46 PM
Walrus........I am impressed.

It appears to me that you have access to HUME CAD v4.0 r-e.

You used it well in your earlier post.

I wish you had stopped at my place on your way to Humes to get your copy of the program.

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 20, 2010, 03:02:11 PM
WW, I've gotta ask -- if you know the answer -- what do they mean by "production engines" and them not being allowed in the APS class?  You can't use a bone-stock engine that came with that bike, or you can't use any engine from the manufacturer of the frame, or what?  Do they want only modified engines in the class?  If so -- what stops an entrant from changing it from production by using a modified oil filter or something relatively minor, like that?  It's not "production" any more.

Got a clue to share?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on February 20, 2010, 04:33:31 PM
Got questions.......ask Drew and/or Delvene......................................................


Also Willie and the boys will like this one.................If you do not use a passenger
no sidecar fender is required for the BUB..................


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 20, 2010, 08:20:14 PM
Slim, a production engine can run on gasoline, only.  It needs to be the same engine originally installed in the motorcycle.  The displacement cannot be over the class limit.  Original eqiupment cylinders, heads, cases, carburetion or throttle body, kick starter, or electric starter.  My engine, and I am building it now, will be a standard 865 cc Triumph except for high compression Arias pistons, light wristpins, 1 mm larger intake valves, a port job, and a hot street cam.  In 2011 I will build a set of racing pipes with meggas.  Tuned for top end power.  This is something I always wanted to do.  This is my basic transportation, so these mods will be all I do.  The new Bonnies are sweet bikes and I do not want to screw this one up with big mods.   

The next step up in the AMA rules is the AG class engine.  It is unlimited design.  "Construction will be the vast majority of engine parts."  No turbo or superchargers, but fuel injection is allowed.  The record in the APS-AG class is 168.139 mph.  It was set by a Triumph in 1975!  Another Bonneville like mine, but an earlier Meriden built model.  That record is out of my reach.  I will run in the 130's this year if my calcs are correct.  An AG engine would be a bit much for the road.

I am, and will be, solidly in the production class, enginewise.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: WhizzbangK.C. on February 20, 2010, 11:29:36 PM
Wobbly,

FWIW, last year we asked the same question in regards to Brian's XR500, and got the same answer that you're coming up with now. It seems that it's not so much a rule change as a clarification. The thinking appears to be that if you're going to go to the trouble of building a special construction chassis, why would you even think about running a production engine.

We didn't necessarily agree with that point of view, but it is what it is and we want to play the game so we'll go by the rules.  :-P Brian's just running in a class to get as many runs in as possible and going for personal best with the XR.

Our opinion on the matter remains that special chassis and streamlining is a valid means to increase speed, and doing it with an engine under "production" limitations is a fair challenge to anyone that wants to play. Not trying to beat a dead horse, because it's all been hashed out before, just agreeing with you. There are no records for any APS-P or PP bikes, and I guess it can make sense since P requires intake and exhaust to appear stock for the model of the bike, as well as the outside of the engine. Since by definition APS is special construction frame, there is no "stock" model bike to reference.

Hell, just build it and come play for personal best, you know you'll still have the time of your life, and it wouldn't be the same without you and the kids there.

Don't do RWB, go ahead and register for a class and get the unlimited runs on the longer course. Don't forget, RWB only gets 2 runs, and starts from the 1 mile instead of the 0. Better bang for your buck registered in a class.

See ya on the salt.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 23, 2010, 01:19:28 AM
Thanks for the encouragement, KC, I will run in MPS-P, my favorite class.

There is another build diary, My Indian Low Tech Racer.  It has a recent post of albums by Mr. Frank Kletchkus, a professional photographer.  His work is very good.  A certain belly tank is featured in one album.  Another album, The Evolution of Mr Squiggles," shows several bikes on Lake Gairdner.  Many aluminum streamlining styles are used.  One has hammered and welded panels.  It is a good example of what can be done with this method.

Hammers are the primary tools for this work.  They should be smooth.  Any imperfections in the hammer face will leave marks on the work after every blow and polishing will be difficult.  Metal working hammers often have soft tempers and the faces are easily marred.  One photo shows a used dolly and one of my prize hammers  It was used by another team Go Dog Go member to pound a chisel.  This is typical damage seen on used tools.  Both items need to be dressed.

Dressing is when the tool faces are shaped to the desired profiles and polished.  It is used to repair damage and for other reasons.  Most often a different profile is needed.  Sometimes the hammer, as manufactured, is not profiled correctly.  Almost all of my hammers have been dressed at least once.

Softer hammers such as this finishing hammer can be filed to the correct shape before they are polished.  The picture shows it and a mill file with a bastard single cut.  This file type works well.  All of the imperfections are filed out and it is polished with emery cloth.

Some panels near the fairing nose required a tight curvature.  I did not have a hammer with a concave head of the right shape.  An air grinder and a lot of patience was used to make one out of a convex finishing head, as shown in the photo.  The final step is to polish the face.

Body hammers are easily damaged and they should not be tossed in the box or drawer with other tools.  Mine are lightly rubbed with oil after each use and stored in a large drawer where they will not bang into each other.  All of this post also applies to dollies.

.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 01, 2010, 12:11:52 AM
The fairing was built around a crash bar.  The steering damper mounted to the bar and I tied the bike to the trailer using the bar.  Last year I saw how Tom Mellor ties down his modified partial streamliner.  He connects the tie downs to tbe bike's mid section and he runs the ties out through his leg slots to the trailer edges.  I will do the same.

The crash bar is an aerodynamic problem.  It is in exactly the wrong place.  Fast moving and highly concentrated air flow hits the bar as shown in the sketch.  The bar's exposed frontal area is small but aerodynamically it acts like a much larger obstruction.  It looks fruity, a crash bar on a land speed bike.  It must go.

The tie down hooks stretched the metal around the bar.  Metal smooth faced hammers are used to thin metal and they cannot shrink it.  A shrinking hammer will be used.  This is a Martin hammer.  The waffle end is for shrinking and the other end is a trim peck.  It is used to tap dents out of auto trim.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on March 01, 2010, 12:27:47 AM
Wobbly.....I am impressed. That bar flow diagram was probably done with Hume CAD v4.0 r-e.

I'm overjoyed that the people that saw the presentation of that program jumped on the application

and are using it to design and explain complex situations.

Ms. Rack ordered a program for every student in her Pre-School class. As a reward I provided a

box of wash-off 16 color crayons for each child. 

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Stan Back on March 01, 2010, 11:24:55 AM
Froyd --

What's the rubber end on the stylus for?

Stainley


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on March 01, 2010, 12:25:12 PM
Measure once.....erase twice.

The basic premise of the program.

frYod


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 02, 2010, 10:27:21 PM
The Rev, Grumm, and Goggles are on their way to the lake with the belly tank, a new engine, and the Tasmanian computer chip.  They pulled it all together and are going for the big record.  They have plucky spirits and hopefully all will go well.

Stretched sheet metal is shrunk using compression force to thicken the metal.  This is difficult.  Smooth faced metal hammers are not used.  They thin the metal and this is not desired.  The first step is to anneal the metal using heat.  This softens it and it is an essential step.

A dolly is placed behind the stretched metal to provide backing.  A shoe dolly is used.  It looks like the toe end of a shoe, hence the name.

The metal is flattened using a mallet.  This Sears #38292 mallet has the right weight for most metalwork.  The two heads have different hardnesses and both are correct for many uses.

The highly stretched areas do not contract under the mallet.  The metal is reheated again and the shrinking hammer is used.  A few gentle pecks are all that is needed.  The mallet is used as backing.  I always anneal the metal before using the shrinking hammer.

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 03, 2010, 11:05:57 PM
The Feb 2010 issue of the English magazine "Back Street Heroes" is on American news stands.  There is an excellent article about the BUB meet.  A familiar Triumph is on Page 103.

The final step is to tap out the last few irregularities with the pear hammer against the dolly.  Some scratches with coarse sandpaper make the repaired area look like the rest of the fairing.  This is the last sheet metal post for now.  The fairing is done for this year except for some mounting brackets.

This afternoon I watched a DVD "Shaping Aluminum with Hand Tools" about sheet metal work.  It is quite good and I learned a lot.  The DVD is available from www.covell.biz. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 06, 2010, 12:35:06 AM
The little parts make a difference.  The crash bar was removed and brackets are needed to mount the fairing to the frame.  Life will be exciting if the new mount fails, so care is needed in its design and construction.  A single mount would work.  It would go between the fork tubes and it would connect the fairing to the frame.  The safer way would be to make two mounts, and to make them strong enough so that one could do the job alone, if needed.  In the engineering world, this is called "redundancy."  It is an extra safeguard against catastrophic failure.

Normally I use all sorts of scrounged up metal.  These are important parts so I use some new aluminum angle of known parentage.  The alloy is 6061 or 6063, I forget which.  This is no problem, either is OK for this application.  A good reference for alloys and their properties is John Bradley's "The Racing Motorcycle - Volume 2" ISBN 0 9512929 3 5.

The brackets must be cut to shape.  Square cornered cuts will concentrate stresses and this could promote metal fatigue and cracking.  A hole saw is used to make circular openings in the part at corner locations.  The cuts meet the hole edges.  These rounded corners do not concentrate stresses.  The plugs cut from the holes are saved for later use as spacers or washers.

The brackets are drilled for bolts and screws, sanded, and they are ready to go.

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Geo on March 06, 2010, 08:25:50 AM
Wobbly,

Nicely done!  Thanks for showing us how you made the brackets.

Geo


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 09, 2010, 01:16:47 AM
This build is a lot of farmyard engineering.  I am glad it helps, Geo.  Reading about the other builds has made a big difference for the better with our program.

The new Hinckley Bonnevilles are porky.  Triumph has tried to give them responsive sport bike handling by providing steering geometry with minimal trail.  A heavy bike with quick steering is never a good setup and this one was marginal for street use and terrible for LSR.  Weaving and wobbling were not uncommon.  A few years ago, the steering damper was in good condition and set at its hardest setting and the bike was hard to steer.  It could get into a tank slapper speed wobble.  Eventually the problem was fixed, and this is discussed earlier in this build diary.  The bike has not wobbled lately but I still do not trust it.  To me, the steering damper is important.

Years ago I made an aluminum mounting bracket.  I was in a hurry, aluminum is easy to work with, and it does not need to be primed or painted.  No design or calculations were done, as is typical with almost everything we build.  Unfortunately aluminum has some disadvantages.  Among metals, it is not the strongest or least susceptible to fatigue failure.  I asked myself the basic questions.

Is it redundant?  No, if it fails there is no backup.

What happens if it fails?  Major excitement for the Walrus.

Does it flex under load?  Yes, a little bit.

Is it subject to cyclic loading?  Yes.

The answer is to make a steel bracket.  It will not flex and this mild steel is extremely resistant to fatigue. No worries now.

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 13, 2010, 02:14:06 AM
Lots of parts I make.  I enjoy it.  There are times, though, when I get really tired of fabricating things and I want to buy something fancy, a piece made by someone else who knows what they are doing.  Welded pipes are an example.  My welds look like bird droppings.  I am the world's worst welder.

Triumph commissioned Arrow to make them some pipes.  They are stainless steel pipes made from welded sections.  The ends unbolt so they can be run as open megaphones.  The two-into-two header pipes for Bonnevilles have 1.59 inch outside diameters.  This is perfect for land speed based on the handy chart at http://www.victorylibrary.com/brit/mega-c.htm  This pipe primary diameter is OK for up to 7,500 rpm for an 865cc twin and that is plenty for me.  I do not let the engine go higher than 8,000 rpm.

So I took off from work early and headed up to Beaverton to order a set.  They are big $ but they will bolt on and fit.  No welding, grinding, etc.  The shop had a display set hanging on the wall.  Customers had been fiddling with the pipes for years, taking them down off of the hooks and putting them back.  The lady behind the counter said "I'll make you a good deal on these.  There are some little dents and scratches."  Heck, my bike and I have all sorts of big dents and scratches.  No problemo.  I bought them real quick before she could change her mind.  Some times the moon and stars line up and the backwoods guy gets a break.   



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 14, 2010, 07:45:22 PM
The windshield has a large beaded edge.  The portion of the bead on the outside is in the path of high speed laminar airflow.  It has to go.

The bead outer part is removed with an air grinder.  This leaves a rough surface.  The surface is smoothed with a bastard cut mill file.  The double cut bastard teeth leave a distinctive scratchy pattern on the plastic.  The scratches are removed with a fine single cut mill file.  The single cut filing is done at a 90 degree angle to the bastard filing, and it is done until the double cut filing scratches are gone.

Sanding is next.  The sanding is done with 220 grit sandpaper at a 90 degree angle to the single cut file marks.  All file marks are removed.  Then, the sanding is repeated with 280 grit in a 90 degree angle to the previous coarser grit sanding.  All coarser sanding marks are removed.  This process is repeated through these grit sizes:  220, 280, 320, 400, and 600.  I use 220 grit carpenter's paper, and for the finer sizes, K&S Engineeering "Flex-i-Grit" sanding film.  The fine stuff is available at the local hobby shop.  I always wash and wipe all grit off the windshield and my hands before I start with the next size finer paper.

Now I use a cloth mop wheel loaded with black emery.  I make one pass buffing in one direction, then another pass buffing at a 90 degree angle to the previous pass.  This is done until the sanding marks are gone.  It takes a long time.  Now I switch to a finer mop and repeat.  One pass in one direction and another at 90 degrees to the previous.  Two passes per grade for those finer than black emery.  I use these in order, from coarse to fine:  black emery, white rouge, tripoli, green rouge, red rouge, and blue rouge.

Sears carries the emery and rouge sticks, along with the mop wheels.  I use a separate mop for each grade.  The mops and sticks are stored in individual sealed bags so they do not pick up abrasive grinder dust.  I wash my hands and the windshield when I switch grades.  This hygiene is very important.  Scratches from stray coarser particles can ruin a job and much rework is needed.

Finally, the windshield is polished with Meguiar's Mirror Glaze plastic cleaner followed by Mirror Glaze plastic polish.  I buy this at the airport.  The repaired area looks better than the rest of the windshield.  Job done.   

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on March 15, 2010, 03:15:21 AM
Nice attention to detail Wobbly.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 15, 2010, 05:38:34 AM
  black emery, white rouge, tripoli, green rouge, red rouge, and blue rouge.

Sears carries the emery and rouge sticks,   This hygiene is very important.    I buy this at the airport.

hey, I just took out some of what you'd written.....sounds like a big night out :-D :-D :-D.......however on a more serious note....those nicely radiused al brackets are fine , clever work...........I love this diary and love the writing Wobbly, thanks, keep it up.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 16, 2010, 12:49:49 AM
Yes, I have heard, that in some places and on some nights, there can be wild things happening in airport lounges.

"Model and Pattern Making for Vintage Vehicles" is the presentation topic this Saturday, 20 March, at 10:00 AM, in the North West Vintage Car and Motor Cycle Museum at Antique Powerland in Brooks, Oregon.  www.nwcarandcycle.org  This is a talk about making patterns and casting parts for vehicles and other uses.     

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 16, 2010, 11:55:46 PM
The fairing is done.  It is a good feeling to actually finish something.  Five or so years ago I was struggling with the fairing aero design.  The pointy and wedge shaped fairings were not looking good.  Too much energy lost in rearward turbulence.  The air should be traveling parallel to the line of travel when it flows across the fairing trailing edges.  One of my old hot-rod books discussed the Batchelor-Xydias So-Cal streamliner.  It was a pioneer design having a boxy shape with rounded corners.  It was extremely fast in its day.  I did a lot of figuring and this shape looked best.  The initial shape had some aero problems and they have been worked out over the years.  The hippopotamus look.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 18, 2010, 10:00:55 PM
The salt quickly strips the zinc plating from parts.  The zinc oxidizes more readily than the underlaying steel.  It sacrifices itself to protect the steel and it is effective until it is used up.  Normally the parts are replated, but this costs a lot of money, and some parts are hard to replate.  These braided oil lines and banjos are examples.  The Team Go Dog, Go! low budget method is used instead.

First, the parts are removed and cleaned.  Pieces with some intact plating are cleaned with a brass brush.  This removes the rust and it leaves the plating.  Parts with all, or almost all, of the plating gone are cleaned using a wire wheel or similar.

Next, the parts, including nuts and bolts, are sprayed with cold galvanize. 

Last, the parts are sprayed with a light paint coat.  "Cast Iron" color resembles Triumph anodizing.  Silver look like zinc plate.  The paint top coat greatly extends the coating's life.

Wrenches and other abuse knocks off some of the zinc.  This is not a problem.  The part will be protected as long as there is zinc on it.



 



 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 21, 2010, 03:03:27 PM
Engine port work is sometimes called "free horsepower."  It is a means to get more performance from an engine without a lot of added cost.  There are several kinds of port work, and they vary in complexity.  The simplest option is leaving the ports alone.  This is a good idea on engines whose ports are at optimum shape when they come from the factory.  My old BSA Spitfire was an example and the BSA Gold Star is another.

Blueprinting is the next most complex example.  The ports are smoothed and cleaned to remove manufacturing defects.  This can be done by the home mechanic.  It can provide better performance and often it is all that is needed.

The porting job is more extensive.  The ports are reshaped to provide optimum flow.  This is best done by a professional using a flow bench.  The ports can be opened in the appropriate areas, and ports on multiple cylinder engines will have similar flow characteristics.  This provides smooth running and better performance.  This is the best option for most street engines.  It provides better performance throughout the power band.

The most radical job is Bonneville porting.  The ports are opened way up to flow as much air as possible.  The atmosphere at the salt flats does not contain much oxygen and naturally aspirated engines need all of the air they can get.  This work is best done by a professional that is experienced with LSR.  My Bonneville has LSR porting done by South Bay Triumph.  The benefits are at higher RPM.  Low to mid range power is not significantly improved.  This is excellent for lake racing.

Engineers imagine ports where the holes in the head match the holes in the intake and exhaust manifolds.  They imagine smooth shape transitions throughout the intake and exhaust tracts, and the openings in the steel valve seat inserts are always aligned with the ports in the aluminum head casting.  This is seen on the Honda 450 engineering drawing.  Making a manufactured item match the original design is called "blueprinting."  Old drawings and plans were on blueprints. 

Werner's cylinder head was made by people in a hurry.  It is awful.  The next few posts will show how it is reshaped so it matches the engineer's original concept.  Blueprints are no longer used, but we have one on our shop wall.  It as a steam locomotive.   

    a       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 21, 2010, 06:20:05 PM
WW, thanks very much for the nice textual explanation.  My dad, in Austria, has been wondering why people do such a goofy-sounding modification - especially if it doesn't gain much, as he says.  I cut and pasted -- and sent it to him.

By the way, his initials are WW.  What a coincidence, hey?

Thanks again.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 22, 2010, 08:36:55 PM
Opposites attract.  One of my parents was of German background.  "Don't monkey with it.  You are not worthy.  The people that made it know what is best."  I heard this a lot.  The teutonic stuff is well designed and there is a bit of truth to this.  The other parent was of strong British descent.  She loved drag racing and had no problems with redoing anything.  An English trait.  This is appropriate, the British things needed a lot of hands on work to live with.  More budding mechanics were educated by owning a British sports car than any trade school.

Port work requires special tools.  One is a good light.  The one I use has a circular florescent bulb with a 3-diopter lens in the center.  This provides +75 percent magnification.  Another 8 diopter lens can be added to give +275% magnification.  Great for brain surgery.  The light is made by Dazor in St. Louis at www.dazor.com.

A nicked intake valve is shown in a photo.  Valves undergo a lot of heating and cooling cycles and a crack could grow from this nick, with horrible results.  This is one example of the light's uses.  Inspection.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 24, 2010, 12:38:54 AM
Grinding and polishing tools, along with fingers and sandpaper, do the job.  An air grinder is shown with a few bits, burrs, and grinding stones.  Some of the most useful are the flame shaped bit for cutting and the bristle wheel for polishing.  I could not find mine to show in the picture.  They are shown in the Fastenal catalog.  The little Dremel electric tool is handy and it is most practical for little ports.

Holding a tool for a long time is tiring.  I attach the air hose to the ceiling and the tool hangs down from it.  I hang the Dremel tool from the ceiling, too.  The photo shows the setup ready to go.  The light is on and the tools are ready.

The new high quality synthetic sandpapers work very well on metal.  The coarse 80 grit works best for me. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on March 24, 2010, 10:39:26 AM
Wobbly, you are doing a fine job.

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 25, 2010, 12:45:14 AM
Thanks Freud.  Some of this stuff I learned in dinosaur times.  Maybe someone will tell us about new and better ways to do things.  The following must be on a spreadsheet somewhere.

Some figuring is needed before the cutting and grinding commences.

The intake valve closes and a pressure wave reflects back along the inlet tract.  The pressure wave exits the velocity stack and another pressure wave is reflected back into the intake tract.  The pressure wave, if it arrives at the wrong time, can hinder flow into the cylinder through the open intake valve.  The wave, if it arrives at the desired time, can push additional mixture past the intake valve and into the cylinder.  The intake tract length can be adjusted so the pressure wave arrives at the intake valve at the correct moment.  This is ram tuning.

There are some pretty fancy formulae to figure out intake tract length based on cam timing and other factors.  This is a bit complicated for this post.  A simple method will be explained.  It gets a person close to the optimum solution.  This procedure is from a 1970 article "Four Stroke Tuning" by Jerry Branch and Le Roi Smith in Petersen Publishing's "Motorcycle Repair Manual."  Jerry Branch was an expert in engine air flow.  This is, as Jerry says, "A formula from an English engineer" and it is best suited for racing engines.

First, the speed of sound is needed at the race location.  Bonneville is at 4200 feet elevation and it is 70 degrees when we race, on the average.  The speed of sound is 1090 feet per second in these conditions.  This is "V" in the equation.  Next the engine speed is needed during the peak ram effect.  This is a matter of personal preference.  I use 80% of redline for initial trials.  0.80 x 9,000 = 7,200 rpm for the little Honda.  This is "N".  "L" is the intake tract length in inches.

The formula is L = (90 X V) / N       L = (90 x 1090) / 7,200 = 13 5/8 inches for the little Honda.   



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 27, 2010, 12:42:49 PM
The speed of sound in the previous post was from an online calculator I found on the internet with no supporting calculations or data to substantiate it.  This was a dumb move on my part.  I went back and did some research in my old books and on the internet.  The calculator at www.sengpielaudio.com seems to be a lot better.  It uses the classic accepted formula.  The speeds of sound are 1110 feet per second in 50 degree F air to 1170 feet per second in 110 degree F air, with a variation of 10 feet per second per 10 degrees F in between.  Against intuition, the sound speed is primarily related to temperature, and it is minimally affected by barometiric pressure or humidity.  Branch used 1100 feet per second in his article.  We usually ride in 70 degree weather, on the average.  The sound speed is 1130 feet per second.  Werner's ideal intake tract length is 90 x 1130 / 7200 = 14.13 inches.

A wire is bent to match the middle of the inlet tract.  One end is at the face of the intake valve.  The other end sticks out of the intake port.  A roach clip is clamped onto the wire and it is flush with the end on the intake tract.  The wire is straightened out and measured.  It is 4.50 inches long.  The carb is 3.19 inches long.  These added together are 7.69 inches.  There are 14.13 - 7.69 = 6.44 inches between the carb end and the ideal inlet tract length. 

Werner made a velocity stack bell out of an old copper pipe,  We will make new bells in 5.44, 6.44, and 7.44 inch lengths for the dyno testing.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 30, 2010, 12:25:41 AM
The inlet calculations show that the velocity stack length can be tuned to give the desired ram air effect.  The carb manifold is not too long.  The manifold needs to be enlarged slightly, about .5 to 1 mm, throughout its length.  Then, both manifold ends will be the same diameter as the carb.

It is difficult to remove a small amount of metal over a large area with a cutter or burr.  They are best for cutting larger amounts of metal from small areas, such as enlarging cavities.  The sanding flapwheel is used to enlarge the manifold.  It removes metal evenly from a large surface area.  The inside calipers are used to periodically check the inside diameter.

The flapwheel is part of a family of tools that are not cutters or burrs, as shown in the photo.  The flapwheel is a metal removal tool.  The spidery looking detail abrasive brush is another metal removal tool.  Both of these tools can be used to smooth out cutter and burr worked areas.  The donut looking spongy things are finishing abrasive brushes.  They are not for removing metal, but they work great for finishing the ports.  The finer black one is excellent for carbon removal.  The wire brushes can be used to polish out small imperfections.  They are delicate tools and they are not suited for heavy work.

Light always seems to be a problem when doing this work.  The little headband light is a great help.  These lights use LED bulbs and they go for a long time without needing recharging.

The manifold is enlarged to match the carb inside diameter and it is smoothed using abrasive brushes and sandpaper.  There are no casting marks or other imperfections.  It is done and now it is time to work on the inlet port.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 03, 2010, 12:44:22 AM
The web address http://yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelinnovation/209/0/innovation.aspx shows the 2010 YZ450F motocrosser.  The engine is tilted backwards and the exhaust pipes exit the rear of the cylinder head.  All of this provides straight ports that flow well.  A future trend?

A problem with port work is knowing where to stop.  It is not good to enlarge the port and bore out into a water passage, etc.  Werner's intake and exhaust ports have big lumps in them near the valve guides, as shown in the photo.  It would increase flow if I ground them down.  The valve spring pockets are above the lumps.  Can I smooth out these lumps without breaking out into the valve spring pockets?

A heavy duty piece of paper is taped onto the drill press table and the cylinder head is placed on it.  Two magnetic dial indicator stands with pointers are put on the table.  The upper pointer sticks into the bottom of the valve spring pocket, and the lower pointer touches the underside of the lump, as shown in the pictures.

The outline of one indicator base is outlined using a fine pencil.  The pointer base is demagnetized and it is removed, along with the cylinder head.  The pointer base is carefully placed back on its outline.  Now it is in its original position.  The gap between the pointers is measured.  The gap distance is the same as the metal thickness between the outside of the lump and the inside of the valve spring pocket.  The distance is only 3/32 of an inch.  This is not very much metal.  I will not grind down the lumps.



 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 03, 2010, 12:46:01 AM
The last two photos for the previous post


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 04, 2010, 02:17:52 PM
The port throat is the area just upstream of the valve seat on the intake port, and the reverse on the outlet port.  The most common error from sloppy manufacturing is to not align the steel valve seats with the aluminum head casting.  The seats on this little bike were 1mm offset from the casting.  This is a lot of error in these small ports and it retards airflow in a critical area.  Cutters or burrs are used to remove aluminum, as needed, to match the seat to the head.  Grinder bits are used to remove valve seat material.  Care is used to make sure the portion of the seat that is contaced by the valve is not harmed.  The photo shows a completed job of matching the intake valve seat to the intake port.  Work is in progress on the exhaust valve seat.  The black is laundry marker ink.  This is used so I can easily see the high and low spots on the port and seat while grinding and cutting.

Next, the exhaust pipe header inner diameter is checked and it is reasonable for the type of use.  The info on the website a few posts previous is used.  There is a large weld at the inside of the header entrance.  It is ground down.  Some restraint is used.  Enough weld remains to hold the pipe together.  The exhaust port exit is matched to the exhaust pipe and the exhaust pipe gasket.  There is a smooth transition from the cylinder head to the header.     

The last step is to smooth all casting marks and defects out of the ports.  Usually this is a sandpaper and fingers job.  It is something intellectual to do while watching Sponge Bob reruns.  Feel is the best quality control here.  Surfaces in the ports should feel nice and smooth to the touch.  Occasionally there are places that are hard to sand with fingers.  Sandpaper on a chopstick will help.

Almost all shop manuals for modern motorcycles show a multi-angle valve job and they give recommended valve seat widths.  The Honda manual does, and the seats on this bike are slightly wide.  It is important that the seat widths are correct in order to have best performance.  We will do this in the future when the bike needs a valve job.  The seats are good enough for now, and the valves are lapped in using conventional methods.  This concludes port blueprinting part of this build.

The Triumph has ten runs down the salt and 20,000 street miles.  It is time for a new cam chain and a look-see inside the engine.  Of course, I am a typical hot rod guy, and there is no way that engine is going back together without some performance mods.   

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 05, 2010, 11:39:40 PM
About this time last year, Mr. Noonan was responding to a question about tire pressure.  He runs between 30 and 40 psi in his tires.  This is a lot lower than the pressures I was using.  Also, I made the switch to a radial rear tire from a bias ply.  The first time I ran the setup was in 2009.  It works very well.  I have more traction and control.

My tire slip factor must be recalculated.  It is an essential part of the basic gearing formula for engine RPM vs speed.  My 2009 down run was 127.2 mph and the tach showed a steady 7,500 rpm through the mile.  I was very tired on my return run and I did not look at the tach.  I wanted to get off the bike, finish the displacement check, have a stiff drink, and go home.  The slip factor is redone based on the one run.  Several runs should be made to get a good idea about the factor, and this will be done this year.

The basic gearing formula is shown with all of the factors.  The gear ratios are from the shop manual.  The tire circumference was measured using Rosie's dress tape.  These formulae are bike specific, and they are for "Bonnie" the Triumph.  My dirt bike "Thrasher" has its own equations.  The slip formula includes tire slip and tachometer error.  I always use the same tach so this is not a problem.

The new slip factor is 3% for good salt.  As a reference, my old slip factors were 5% with the bias ply tire and 45 or 50 psi on good salt, 7% for slightly wet salt, and 10% for sloppy wet salt that I should not have been racing on.           


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 07, 2010, 12:51:45 AM
The engine speeds for seven of ten Bonneville runs are calculated from the data we recorded and the time slips.  This is shown on the sheet.  I usually try to run at 7,500 rpm.  This is my target RPM and I adjust the gearing to get as close as possible.  This rpm give me nice fast runs and it does not put a heavy strain on the engine.  In a pinch, and only if bringing home a record will depend on it, I will put on a one tooth bigger rear sprocket and go for broke.  This will get me a few mph but it is not good for the engine.  It will be just over 8,000 rpm and right near red line.

The rpm data helps me to make decisions about the new build.  One of the original 790 cc pistons is shown in the photo.  There is a small crack in the skirt and a chip is missing from the corner.  This is a cast piston.  It is showing damage from use and it has not been over 7,500 rpm.  It would probably fail at 8,000 rpm.  Unfortunately, I bought another set of larger cast pistons for the new build.  They will not be used.

Will forged racing pistons, which are stronger, be the answer?  Forged pistons should be good for up to 4000 feet per minute average piston speed in sustained use and work at up to 5,000 feet per minute in intermittent bursts.  The average piston speed formula is:  V = S x R /6.  V = average piston speed in feet per minute, S = engine stroke in inches, and R = engine speed in revolutions per minute.

The Bonneville's connecting rods will break at about 9,000 rpm, so the rev limiter is set at 8,300 rpm.  The engine cannot exceed this speed.  Using an 8,300 rpm engine speed and the 2.68 inch stroke:  V = 2.68 x 8,300 / 6 = 3,700 feet per minute.  This is well under 4,000 feet per minute.  Good quality forged pistons should be safe for this bike. 

 





Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 08, 2010, 09:45:21 PM
The average piston speed formula tells me what I should do in terms of periodic piston inspection and replacement.  Cast pistons, as a rule of thumb, I consider reliable with little or no inspection at sustained speeds up to 75 percent of 4,000 feet per second maximum, with occasional bursts over that speed.  3,000 feet per second is 75% of the 4,000 feet per second maximum.  Periodic inspection and replacement is the rule for average speeds over 3,000 feet per second, and the frequency of inspection and replacement increases as piston speeds near 4,000 feet per second.   Let's say I continue to use these cast pistons.  They would be replaced every ten runs, based on the very tiny skirt crack that I saw, and I would continue to keep the rpm below 7,500.

Forged racing pistons follow the same rule for me, except I do not worry about them unless sustained average piston speeds are more than 75% of 5,000 feet per second, or 3,750 feet per second.  This corresponds to 8,400 rpm on the Triumph.

This rule of thumb has helped me quite a bit during my younger years when I did most of my tuning, and it worked good for me for this Triumph in land speed use.  It is a lot cheaper to replace parts before they break.
 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 10, 2010, 10:42:43 AM
The engine part of this build diary appears to be a set of random events.  It follows a logical pattern, sort of.

High engine speeds (RPM) for sustained periods seem to be the main killer of naturally aspirated motors in LSR, based on what I learned before the engine tear down.  A history of engine rpm is needed to make decisions during the engine work.  I had tachometer data from only a few runs.  The tach info that I had was used to figure out tire slip/tachometer error factors.  These factors, along with the gearing data that I wrote down, and the speeds on the time slips, gives me the info to figure out a history of run rpm.

Next, I have a realistic discussion with myself about what I can, and want, to do with this bike.  It can never compete head to head against the modern water cooled Japanese fours.  They produce much more power than the Triumph and I can never get the power I need.  In addition, this engine work is costing me big money and using a lot of time.  In the interests of family finances and marital stability the engine must stay together for at least another five years.  This is the goal.  As much power as I can get and no tear down for five years.

The weak link in these engines is the cam chain.  Mine needed replacement after ten runs and I cannot find a high performance chain.  The history shows me that it took ten runs to wear out the chain at engine speeds up to 7,500 rpm.  High engine RPM and number of runs kills these chains, so I will continue to use 7,500 rpm as a target during my runs with the rev limiter set at 8,300 rpm.  Also, I will limit myself to ten runs down the salt in the next five years.

Now I have my upper rpm limit.  This is the first step in tuning.  I know that I need to get as much power and reliability as I can within that limit.   

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Geo on April 10, 2010, 12:29:59 PM
Quote
I have a realistic discussion with myself about what I can, and want, to do

Wobbly,

Thanks for having this conversation within earshot!  Love your reasoning.  Keep it up.

Geo


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 1212FBGS on April 11, 2010, 03:25:31 AM
wobbly
with a good seasoned block i would run those cast pistons.... especially on a slow rev'n NA motor.... look under the dome... I'm sure it is undercut and lighter around the pin area than the forged... the cast probably has less material under the dome and can dissipate the heat to the rings better than most mass forged slugs.... you can run a tighter clearance with them than a forging.... I would have to look at your cracked piston but i doubt it was due to piston speed... cast pistons spin to 13, 14 and even 15g all day long in those new sportbikes, so i have doubt.... we use power adders like NOS and turbos so we need a strong dome and ring lands so we use forged but on a NA motor like yours i would prefer cast
Kent


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 11, 2010, 12:51:10 PM
Kent, Triumph might have recognized a problem with those 790 cc pistons.  They went to much better cast pistons when they went to 865 cc.  Like you say, they should be OK for 7,500 rpm.  I have a set.  There were other reasons I used forged jobs.

About 40 years ago I was explaining to my father some hop up that I was going to do to my Matchless or 305 Honda Superhawk.  My father said something like "Look, someone smarter than you designed that thing from the top of the rocker cover to the bottom of the oil pan to handle the loads and stresses based on the power it has.  You are going to double some loads and you will be chasing problems from the rocker cover to the bottom of the pan."

About two years ago I did the math to figure out that the 790 cc pistons were over stressed and I would need to look at options.  The 790 cc engines were only used for a couple of years and there are no high strength pistons for that bore.  Stronger parts were available but they were all in big bore or stroker kits.  I looked at these setups using math and my experience with air cooled engines.  During all of this I remembered my father's words.

One option I looked at was reducing bore diameter, having custom pistons made, and doing other work to make a modified 750 cc engine.  This seems to be the best approach to making this motor into a heavily built LSR engine.  The use of a larger engine as a platform to build a smaller racing motor is something I always look at, and it is a minority viewpoint, for sure.   The task at hand is to build a nice street engine, and a racing motor is in the distant future.

Back before the recession I bought a new 865 cc cylinder block and a set of new 865 cc cast pistons.  They are much better quality.  A look at the piston side shows a nice radius where the 709 cc piston had a 90 degree cut.  A view of the piston bottom shows less sharp radii.  These larger pistons have fewer places with stress concentrations.  I expected to have no problems with running them at 7,500 rpm and I would take the cylinders off and inspect them if I ran over 8,000 rpm.

There are problems with these pistons.  They are only available in a 9.1 to 1 compression ratio.  I am installing a higher performance cams and the valves will be open for longer times.  Less air will stay in the cylinders at lower to mid rpm for combustion.  In effect, the cams will be lowering my compression ratio at the engine rpms I use on the street.  Another problem with the cast pistons is they have no gudgeon pin offset.  The piston, pin, and connecting rod all change direction at the same time at top and bottom dead center.  This puts a heavy instantaneous load on the rod big end bearing.  I was prepared to live with both of these problems.

South Bay Triumph recently developed high compression (10.5 to 1) pistons for an 865 cc engine.  They are forged Arias pistons with slightly offset pins.  The pistons and connecting rods reverse direction over a slightly longer period with these offset pins.  It reduces the instantaneous loads on the rod bearings.  This is a good thing for a LSR engine.  The pistons are also designed so there are much fewer sharp corners for stress concentration.  I ordered a set with teflon coating on the pins and pistons.  Now I will have no problems, that I know about, in the pistons and cylinders.   

 

 

I al  appeared to be the best sleeving th 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 13, 2010, 12:35:02 AM
The old saying "its better to find the sabertooth tiger than it is for the tiger to find you" applies to this part of the build.  Finding all of these problems is not pleasant, but it is better than the alternative.  I hope that I find all of them.

It was a pleasant evening.  All chores were done and I slipped down into the basement for some quality time with the scoot.  It was time to pull the rods off of the crank and to put in some new bearing shells.  Easy enough, but then I noticed black stains on my hands.  They looked like that Arco Graphite oil that was popular years ago.  Serious swearing echoed from the basement walls.  Rick Vogelin, in his "The Step-by-Step Guide to Engine Blueprinting" says it best.  "Black carbon deposits around the big end of used connecting rods are warning signs that the overheated bearing was on the verge of spinning."  This is a problem I need to fix.  The increased loads from the new motor will spin the bearings, for sure.  New barrels cost $1,706, crankcases $3,861, rods $139 ea, etc.  I need to get this one fixed right the first time.  Fortunately I was warned ahead of time, and I have some advice.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 15, 2010, 12:52:43 AM
The rod big end bearing is like the eleventh piglet on a ten tit sow.  It gets what the others leave.  In this case, the rod bearings are the last in line and they get the oil that does not go through the main bearings.  The rod journal holes will be chamfered to slightly increase oil flow into the rod bearings and to spread the oil out more evenly.  This will improve the bearing lubrication.

Only the rod bearing journal oil holes are chamfered.  The main bearings look fine and I do not want to increase flow through them.  I will put new inserts on the main bearings to minimize flow though them and to keep the oil pressure up.  This will assure that the rod bearings are getting their full share.

A chainsaw sharpening stone is used for the initial rough chamfering.  A grit impregnated rubber bit is used for the final polishing.  This larger opening will help to lubricate the rod bearings.  The rod bearing oil holes are enlarged in some extremely high performance uses, but this engine does not need that.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 18, 2010, 12:35:20 AM
The Triumph oiling system is completely different from the old Triumphs.  I study it and decide to chamfer all of the crankshaft oil holes.  Triumph make rod bearing shells in slightly different sizes.  They are coded with paint marks.  My original shells are red.  I order and will install white shells.  This will give me 0.0003 inches additional bearing clearance.  There will be increased oil flow through these looser bearings and the oil will carry away more heat.  South Bay Triumph recommended this fix.

The next step is expensive.  It is a set of Carillo top loading connecting rods.  These rods unbolt from the top and the rod bearings can be inspected and replaced without removing the engine from the frame.  Will my new heavier forged pistons increase rod bearing stresses enough to warrant the Carillos?  What about future changes, will they also increase rod bearing stresses?  It is time to do some figuring.

First, I need to determine the reciprocating mass.  This is the piston, rings, gudgeon pin, clips, and the upper portion of the connecting rod.  I weigh the pistons, rods, and the small end of a connecting rod. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 21, 2010, 12:12:37 AM
Five engine build alternatives will be examined.  The old 790 cc engine will be the baseline.  I have its history.  The second is the 865 cc engine with the better quality cast pistons.  Third is an 865 cc engine with forged pistons.  Hopefully it will be what I race this year.  An engine with a 994 cc big bore kit will be looked at.  I dream about this.  Maybe I will find buried treasure in the back yard.  Last, I will examine a 750 cc small bore high rpm engine, out of curiosity.

Three engine speeds will be used.  7,500 rpm is my current target speed.  The 8,400 rpm rev limiter speed will be looked at, too.  The engine should not blow up at this speed.  The last speed is 9,000 rpm.  This would be the redline for a future race engine.

Rod big end bearing loads will be figured for the point near top dead center where the rod and piston are subject to the highest inertial tensile loads.  Loads will also be figured for the big end bearing near bottom dead center where the rod is at its highest compression due to inertial loads.  I will also look at rod loads when the piston is applying maximum force due to combustion, if I can remember how to do it.

A long time ago I was 17 and I bought a new copy of the Fall 1970 "Motorcycle Sport Quarterly" by Petersen Publishing.  An article "Engine Science" by Phil Vincent is in there.  Most of the equations I use are in the article and a few are my own.

The piston is reciprocating mass.  It goes back and forth.  The crankshaft is rotating mass.  It spins.  The connecting rod is both.  The small end is reciprocating mass and the big end is rotating mass.  I use the old style method of hanging the rod and measuring the small end weight on a scale.  The small end is considered to be reciprocating mass along with the piston, rings, and pin.  The 750 cc and 994 cc piston masses are estimated using a ratio of bore areas.  These are approximations. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on April 21, 2010, 09:10:22 PM
Wobbly,
Upon further consideration, I think you will realize that for the purposes of big-end bearing load calculations the entire connecting rod mass should be used.  After all, the "vertical" velocity and acceleration of the con-rod CG is essentially the same as that of the piston near TDC and BDC.  (They would be identical in all positions for an infinitely long con-rod. The entire rod is travelling upward and has to be decelerated, brought to a stop, and then accelerated downward.  And vice-versa at BDC.)

For the purpose of crankshaft balance calcs, a portion of the con-rod (i.e., the big end) is considered to be rotating mass.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 21, 2010, 10:26:18 PM
When I started doing this I used the entire rod mass as reciprocating weight in the calcs.  A fellow told me that the rod big end is being swung around rather than pushed downward and stopped suddenly.  He convinced me to do calcs using both rotating weight and reciprocating weight.

I dug out the old article by Vincent and he says in the topic "The Limits of Piston Speed and Acceleration" the following:  "Fortunately, we have evolved a formula, as shown just above, which enables the maximum inertia loads at TDC to be calculated with accuracy, the weight W being the weight of all reciprocating metal beyond the section being calculated.  In the case of piston-pin bearing calculations it is the weight of the piston and the pin, except the pin is ignored for the loads on the bearings in the piston bosses.  For the big end, the weight of the connecting rod is also added in."

Vincent's formula was going to be on the third page of these calcs.  Clearly I was using it incorrectly and making things extra complicated.  Interested Bystander, thanks for telling me this.  A revised Page 1 will follow.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 22, 2010, 12:59:02 AM
The entire connecting rod and piston mass is reciprocating mass, and it is listed as such on the new Page 1.  Additional input into Vincent's inertia equation is on Page 2.

The 123 mm connecting rod length and the 68 mm stroke are listed on Page 2.  The connecting rod length divided by the stroke is 123 / 68 = 1.81.
This is the connecting rod ratio and it will be discussed in more detail in subsequent posts.  It is important for engine tuning.

The relationships between connecting rod ratios and engine performance are discussed in the article "Torque and Horsepower" by Donny Petersen in the June 2010 American Iron magazine.  This issue also has an article about the BUB meet and a nice piece about dyno tuning.  It is on the newsstands now.




Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 22, 2010, 11:55:14 PM
This third page is the maximum inertia equation from Phil Vincent's article.  The equation illustrates an important aspect of the inertial forces on the rod bearings and other parts of the connecting rod/piston assembly.  Inertial loads vary in a geometric ratio to the inertia constant, the crank radius, and the reciprocating mass weight, and the loads vary in an exponential ratio to engine rpm.

A stroker crankshaft is made for these bikes.  I could use this crank with the standard length connecting rods and special 865 cc pistons.  The gudgeon pins in the custom made pistons would be 3.2 mm closer to the piston crown than it is with the standard pistons.  The stroker pistons would weigh the same as the forged 865 cc pistons.  This option is analysed in the example.  The example shows that a stroke increase can cause greater inertial loads at a given rpm.



 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 24, 2010, 01:04:42 AM
The calculation results are summarized.  Currently I am focusing on connecting rod reliability, and especially on the connecting rod lower end bearing. My plan is to use the standard Triumph connecting rods and to swap them out for new ones every ten runs.  My target rpm is 7,500 and red line is 8,400 rpm.  The percentages are all of the options compared to the inertia loads from the 790 cc pistons at 7,500 rpm.  I know the engine condition at this rpm with the 790 pistons.

First, I look at the 865 cc cast pistons.  They weigh the same as the standard 790 cc pistons and they do not increase inertial loads.  The loads at the 8,400 rpm red line are 26 percent higher than they are at the target rpm.  I am comfortable with this setup and the boxes are highlighed in orange.  The white bearings and chamfered oil holes will make it reliable.

Now, I examine the 865 cc forged pistons.  They are slightly heavier than the cast ones.  The inertia loads at 8,500 rpm is 29 percent higher than the 790 cc pistons at the target rpm.  I will reprogram the rev limiter to lower the red line 100 rpm to 8,300.  Now the maximum inertia loads will be the same as the 790 cc engine.

My 947 cc stroker crank idea using the 865 cc forged pistons is next.  The inertial loads are far higher.  This is a dangerous setup and the boxes are highlighted in red.  There is a possibility of broken rods, pistons, etc.  I do not want to go there.  Some of this higher inertia is due to the piston accelerating harder to travel the longer stroke.  The rod length to stroke ratio of the stroked engine is 123 mm / 74.4 mm = 1.65  This is lower than the standard engine rod length to stroke ratio of 123 mm / 68 mm = 1.81  Engines with low ratios tend to have high piston acceleration rates and other characteristics that are not good for a LSR motor.  I am not literate enough to explain this.  See http://ftlracing.com/tech/engine/rsratio.html  The stroker crank idea will not become reality.

Now the 994 cc big bore kit.  This option provides a lot of extra displacement with minimal increases in inertia loads.  There is a 9 percent increase at the 7,500 rpm target.  I can set the rev limiter to 8,000 rpm.  This will limit the inertia load at red line to 25 percent higher than the 790 cc pistons at 7,500 rpm.  I can live easily with this lower redline in exchange for a lot more power.  I like these big jugs.  This will be a future hop-up if I find the money.

My 750 cc small bore screamer is next.  There is a small decrease in inertial loads as compared to the 790 cc setup.  There will be a lot less power.  This idea seemed good when I thought about it, but the calculations show otherwise.

A fellow racer said "wind that sucker up to 9,000 rpm and it will haul a__"  The inertial loads at this rpm are much greater than at the lower engine speeds.  Carillo rods will be needed, the engine will must be torn apart after every race for rod bearing inspection, and cam chain life will be short.  Nine grand is an option for a dedicated racer with lots of time and money.

The white bearings, chamfered oil holes, relatively light 865 cc pistons, 7,500 rpm target, and 8,300 rpm red line will give me the rod big end bearing life that I need.  Now it is time to figure out the fourth of five reliability issues, the rod little end.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 28, 2010, 08:38:01 PM
The partially seized gudgeon pin is the fourth of the five reliability issues.  It seized and then freed itself.  Lucky me. 

First, I figure out the probable cause.  The Triumph production tolerances are 0.0006 to 0.0015 inch.  Mine are definitely on the tighter side of this range and they are not the 0.001 to 0.0015 inch that I want for racing.  It is probable that the small end did not have enough clearance to account for heat expansion and lubrication needs.

Top end breakups are a problem for many builders on this forum, and they are much better and more experienced than me.  The Triumph transmission is just behind and below the pistons and rods and breakage will dump metal chunks into the spinning gears.  The engine will lock up and pulling in the clutch will not free it.  A big crash will result.  Entertaining to watch but no fun to be in.  It is time for expert advice.  I do not want to figure this one out on my own.

First, the small ends will be bronze bushed.  Bronze and the hardened steel pins are dissimilar metals.  They will have more resistance to seizing than the two hardened steel surfaces on the standard Triumph setup.

Second, the bronze bushings will be honed to exactly the correct clearances for racing.

Third, the pins will be teflon coated.  This gives some added lubrication.

I can do all of these with the standard Triumph rods.  The problem is that I will need to do it every ten runs when I replace the rods because of fatigue concerns.   Another problem with the standard rods is that I need to pull the engine completely out of the frame to inspect the rod big end bearings.  Also, the Triumph rods will not be adequate when I install the big bore kit in the future.  A set of Carillo rods is the answer.  They have all of the features that I need and they are top loading.  I can inspect the rod bearings with the engine in the frame.  Money well spent, I say.

It is nice to call someone on the phone who understands land speed racing.  It is different as far as engine building is concerned.  South Bay Triumph helped me to figure out most of this and they developed the parts.  A lot of this setup is what they use on their bikes, so I will know it will work on mine.  There will be fewer worries when the starter waves me off for that long hard run down the salt. 

   

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 30, 2010, 12:51:28 AM
Engines are full of hardened steel parts and the hardening is most often on the surface, only.  The hardened surface can flake from these parts for many reasons, such as poor alignment, overloading, a bad design, normal wear, or inadequate hardening.  The lost particles are hardened steel and they are very abrasive.  They can wear and damage the engine.  A complete inspection of all parts for hardened surface spalls is part of this build.  The backlash gears on each cam have some spalling on the teeth.

The probable cause is overload.  Triumph recommends substantial preload on the springs that push the backlash gears against the cam gears.  It is easy to install the cams with less spring pressure.  The backlash gear is not twisted quite as tight against the internal spring when the cams are installed.  In the future I will use this reduced preload when I use the factory cams.  I will use new gears, too.

The backlash gears, springs, and washers are removed for this racing build.  They create internal friction and add considerable weight to the camshaft rotating masses.  I was worried about some bad rattling with the gears out, but the designer said the high performance cams are designed so they do not have backlash under normal operating conditions.  This is the last of the reliability issues.

A fellow on this forum was commenting on a blown up engine in another build.  He said "What are you going to do different?"  That sums up this part of the build.  It is identifying reliability issues and figuring out solutions.  Next is the fun part, the tuning. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 01, 2010, 12:51:29 AM
This Triumph will be tuned in the old American street rod style.  It will be a fast runner with a solid engine and nothing spectacular.  The streamlining is the ticket to speed here, not the engine.  I am an average guy and not an expert tuner.  This is a diary of what I do and it is not always the best.

The basic tuning decisions are based on math calculations and dyno data.  Mostly, I look at the dyno curve shapes.  I never base any decisions on comparisons of the peak torque and horsepower unless I am comparing back to back runs in the same dyno session.  My habit is to tune for horsepower using the torque curve.  The flatter torque curve is easier for me to interpret than the sloping horsepower curve.

The dotted torque curve is for the new 790 cc Bonneville with the smog control air injection system removed, the snorkel taken off of the air box, and glass pack mufflers.  It ran just under 100 mph at BUB in 2007.  Peak torque was low in the powerband at 49 percent of redline, and the redline was a sedate 7,300 rpm.

Lots of fiddling around and trying different things, and finally I had the 790 cc engine making good power.  The head was given a land speed style port job by South Bay Triumph and 1mm larger intake valves.  A British Customs ignition box was installed with 3 degrees more spark advance and a 1,100 rpm higher redline.  The peak torque was moved up to between 75 to 85 percent of redline.  This is exactly what I wanted.  A big surge of torque high up in the powerband where I need it to punch through the wind.  Usually I like the peak to occur at 500 to 1,000 rpm lower than my target rpm.  In this case the torque started to trail off at 500 rpm lower than the target.

The goal of the new build is to duplicate this torque curve shape with a lot more torque under the curve.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 03, 2010, 02:00:07 PM
My general rule-of-thumb for cast pistons is that they will go up to 3,000 feet per second average piston speed with no reliability issues and they will work at up to 4,000 rpm with periodic inspection and replacement, with both occurring more often as the engine speeds get closer to 4,000 feet per second.  I fellow forum member mentioned that Suzuki cast pistons are functional at high rpm.  The things that a lot of these forum members do with their big Kawasaki and Suzuki bikes are beyond my comprehension.  I said to myself, "Yea, these guys do this, but I in my world I race a Triumph with funky Triumph pistons."

The American Historical Motorcycle Racing Association held an event at Portland International Raceway.  This is a lousy track for watching a bike race.  Barriers, fences, and distance keep the spectators far away from the action.  Yesterday we found a little spot near the end of the straightaway where we stood on top of a barrier and actually saw the race from a reasonably close distance.  We saw Tom Mellor and his land speed racing Triumph Trident in road race trim.  The triples are very fast and they have a special sound.  There is a Battle of the Twins class called the Transatlantic Challenge.  Hinckley Triumph 865 cc twins and Harley Sportster twins up to 1200 cc compete.  The bikes engines are basically standard.  The fastest Triumph led the race and it was ahead of the others by a long distance.  It was through the straightaway before the rest of the pack was in sight.  This bike is very well set up and ridden according to a team member.  It uses standard Triumph pistons and connecting rods with the rev limiter at the standard Triumph Thruxton 8,200 rpm.  These Triumph cast pistons are working OK for them and the average piston speed is 3,670 feet per second at redline by my calculations.

The new Triumph works stay current with modern technology and they put it into their bikes as much as possible.  It appears that they are using some of the newer methods to cast pistons and they are nice and strong.  This tuning part of the build diary will look at various options and the standard 865 cc 9.1 to 1 cast pistons will be one of them.  They are a practical choice.

We talked a bit about tuning the Hinckley twins, the team member and me.  He mentioned that the race gas they use is slightly corrosive.  After each race they drain the float bowls and pull the caps off of the hose spigots on the inlet tracts.  They spray WD-40 or similar through the hose spigots and into the inlet tracts with the engine turning.  This lubricates the top end and reduces corrosion.  I mentioned that my intake valve seats showed some corrosion and he said this would help.  Also, he said the race gas can get into the spark plug threads, cause corrosion, and the plugs will be difficult to remove.  He suggested using anti-sieze on the spark plugs or removing them after the race.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 05, 2010, 12:45:17 AM
There are three tuning options that I am looking at, 865 cc engines with one of two different compression ratios, or a 994 cc big bore motor.  Will my 36 millimeter diameter constant velocity carburetors work with these engines or will I need something different?  I want to duplicate the 790 cc motor torque curve shape where the torque peaks at 6,600 rpm.

The formula I use is from the 1970 Peterson Publishing "Motorcycle Repair Manual" article "Four-Stroke Theory" by Jerry Branch and Le Roi Smith.  It is based on work done by Phillip E. Irving.  Mr. Irving, along with Phillip Vincent, were the chief engineers at the Vincent works at Stevenage in the English midlands.  Mr. Irving was Australian by nationality.

The carburetors at the time the formula was developed were almost all of the slide and needle variety.  The constant velocity carbs with a rotating throttle plate, such as those on the Hinckley Bonneville, were very rarely used on motorcycles in those days.  I reduce the carburetor opening size for these calculations to account for the obstruction of the throttle plate.  This is my own idea and it is not part of Irving's original formula.

The heart of the concept represented by this formula is, to quote Branch and Smith "To get acceptable fuel mixture (atomization) and vaporization within the combustion chamber by the time of ignition, considerable air velocity is necessary.  P.E. Irving has found this means a nominal mean air velocity of 300 ft./sec. through the throat, or the point of maximum engine torque."

This is a most useful formula.  It tells me that my standard carbs are almost large enough for the 790 cc engine and they will be on the smallish side for an 865 cc engine.  It also shows that a big bore motor will certainly need bigger carbs.  Large 39 mm diameter Keihin carbs are available.  They are a bit big for the 865 cc engine with peak torque at 6,600 rpm.  At 7,500 rpm peak torque they will have 300 feet per second velocity.  Just right.

Standard carb bodies are a requirement for a production class engine in the AMA/BUB series.  The speed that I will need to get a record will require an engine that works hard and is near to the 1000 cc class displacement limit.  The standard carbs are far too small for this monster engine.  A serious attempt at a 1000 cc class record with a production engine is not possible with this bike.  This is more good info for me to have.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 06, 2010, 12:34:59 AM
The second page of yesterday's post had an error.  "SQ IN" is supposed to be "IN" as shown on the attached revised page.

The standard carburetors will be used this year.  They will need to be rejetted.  A guesstimate will be made and the final sizing will be done on a dyno.  Most of my concerns are about the main and pilot jets.  This bike has constant velocity carburetors and the needle or the needle jet seldom need to be adjusted.

The first step in the estimating is to account for the cylinder diameter change.  The average air velocity formula works well for this.  It can also be used to estimate the jetting changes due to rpm or stroke differences.  The average flow velocity is calculated for both the existing engine and the new build.  The ratio of the two is assumed to reflect the changes in fuel demand.

The Keihin jets use a numbering system that is not directly related to flow capacity, unlike Mikuni jets.  A conversion chart is used to find the Mikuni jet that is similar to the Keihin jet in the existing carb.  The average velocity ratio is used to estimate an appropriate Mikuni jet.  The conversion chart is used again to determine an equivalent Keihin jet.  A comprehensive chart is at http://www.jetsrus.com/FAQ_mikuni_vs_dynojet_vs_keihin_sizes.htm

The new build will have more compression and a cam.  My guess is one or two sizes larger on the main jet to account for this.  All of this is an educated guess.  The final jet selection will be done using a fuel/air ratio trace from the dyno session.  I will bring some other jets to the dyno session to make sure that I will have the right ones.  My guess is one more size on the pilot jets will be OK.

The estimating method shown is only valid for changes to the engine and reuse of the existing carb.  It cannot be used to estimate jet sizes in a replacement carb of a different size or type. 

A booklet on Hinckley Bonneville carb tuning is available for downloading from the jenksbolts.com website.  The booklet is "Carburetor Tuning Notes" in their "Engine and Carburetor tuning" section.  This is a good book for for any Bonnie owner. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 08, 2010, 12:01:55 AM
The last few years I have been riding on the street with oiled gauze pod air filters and salt flats jetting.  Fuel economy is lousy and the filters do not work well.  Dirt gets past them.  Cylinder wall and piston scratching was seen during the last teardown.

I will do two carb setups.  One will be for the street, runway racing, and Elmo.  The standard carbs are OK for this and I will use them with the air filter box and an oiled foam filter.  My friends say these filters trap all of the dirt and they work better than the oiled gauze types.  I will run the glass pack mufflers with this setup.  This is what I will test out at Bonneville this year.

Next year I will fit a set of 35 millimeter Keihin CR smoothbore racing carbs and open velocity stacks.  This will help the performance and it will be used for racing on salt flats, only.  I will run some tuned reverse cone meggas with the smoothbore carbs.

An old hot rod trick is to flatten the throttle plate spindle so it creates less resistance to flow.  I did this a lot on older engines.  These carbs came from the factory with that done.  The photos illustrate it.  When I did this, after I reinstalled the throttle plate, I would mushroom the threaded ends of the screws that hold the throttle plate to the spindle.  It is bad if one of those screws comes undone.

The thingy on the side of the carb is the throttle position sensor.  In all of my years messing around with these Triumphs, I have found instructions on how to adjust this thing in one place.  It is on the website http://www.triumphtwinpower.com/tps_adjustment.php


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 14, 2010, 12:21:44 AM
Does anyone who understands the new FIM twin cylinder class want to give me some advice?  I am trying to figure the FIM stuff out and I am not having a lot of success.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 16, 2010, 11:56:46 PM
The standard air box has a removable restrictor plate.  This plate reduces peak power according to dyno tests done here in Oregon and other places.  One photo shows the plate in place within the air box.  The plate is shown in another photo.  It is easily pulled out and it will be saved.  The left side of the air box is removed to pull out the plate.  The right side does not need to be taken off.

The air box has a snorkel shaped inlet and it also restricts horsepower.  It is replaced by a more efficient bell mouth inlet.  Mine is from Norman Hyde in the United Kingdom.  It is shown in a photo.



   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 22, 2010, 11:20:16 AM
A mistake on the previous post, last sentence.  I like more lobe separation, not less, for this application.  Now I need to make another choice.  The 865 cc pistons increase the displacement 9.5 percent and the 988 pistons increase displacement 25 percent.  The 790 cc cam had adequate breathing at the 7,500 rpm target engine speed I used.  These questions I need to answer.  Will the new cam give me adequate breathing at a 7,500 rpm target speed with 865 or 988 cc displacement increases using the valves I have, or do I need a bigger valves?  Cams are a complex subject and I need to make things simple so I can arrive at an answer.  I need to work quickly using the tools that I have, the kitchen table, a pencil, graph paper, a calculator, three bottles of beer, and a pot of coffee.  It will take two posts to show what I do.

First, I plot degrees duration on the x axis and inches lift on the y axis on some graph paper.  Next, I plot the cam opening, maximum lift, and cam closing points on the graphs.  These lifts and durations are from the cam data and the worksheets.  Now I plot the valve lift curves on the graphs.  These curves can be based on real data obtained by using a dial indicator to measure valve movement and a degree wheel to measure rotation.  My engine is apart so I cannot do this.  I draw the lines on the paper using a french curve and an approximation of a sine wave pattern.  An educated guess and it is good enough for now.

The flow through the valve opening is assumed to occur at 0.050 inch lift or more.  Lines are drawn across the curves at this lift.  I measure the areas under the curves and above the lines in square inches then I convert these measured areas to inches lift x degrees duration.

Now, I figure out the valve perimeters and multiply them by the lift x duration values.  This is on the worksheet.  This tells me, in a rough, approximate, and abstract way, the opening areas between the valves and the seats.

     

 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on May 25, 2010, 01:44:23 AM
The partially seized gudgeon pin is the fourth of the five reliability issues.  It seized and then freed itself.  Lucky me. 

First, I figure out the probable cause.  The Triumph production tolerances are 0.0006 to 0.0015 inch.  Mine are definitely on the tighter side of this range and they are not the 0.001 to 0.0015 inch that I want for racing.  It is probable that the small end did not have enough clearance to account for heat expansion and lubrication needs.

Top end breakups are a problem for many builders on this forum, and they are much better and more experienced than me.  The Triumph transmission is just behind and below the pistons and rods and breakage will dump metal chunks into the spinning gears.  The engine will lock up and pulling in the clutch will not free it.  A big crash will result.  Entertaining to watch but no fun to be in.  It is time for expert advice.  I do not want to figure this one out on my own.

First, the small ends will be bronze bushed.  Bronze and the hardened steel pins are dissimilar metals.  They will have more resistance to seizing than the two hardened steel surfaces on the standard Triumph setup.
 

I just did a recall on a pre production Aprilia with the Piaggio 850 V twin and 3500 Klms on the clock
It involved replacing the crank and wrist pins
The new crank supplied had bronze bushes in the small ends
And the wrist pins that came out had obvious wear on them

G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 25, 2010, 11:36:04 PM
Grumm, the Triumph rod small end holes and gudgeon pins were both hardened steel, too.  The Carillo rods have bronze bushes just like the replacement Aprilia rods.  These dissimilar metals and teflon coated pins are part of our solution.

The pins were not loose or worn on the Triumph.  The opposite.  The gudgeon pins were a tight interference fit in the pistons and the rod to pin clearances upon disassembly were a tight 0.00085 inches (both sides).  It appears that the pins did not readily float in the pistons and almost all rotating movement occurred between the small end bearings and the gudgeon pins.  All of this rotation in sliding fit plain bearings with minimal clearance and similar metals was my problem, I think.

The gudgeon pins have a slight interference fit in the new Arias racing pistons and there are oil passages and oil grooves to keep the pins lubricated so they can rotate.  The rotation occurs between the gudgeon pins and the small end bearings and also between the pins and the pistons.  All of this oil and rotating movement spread out among more surfaces is a good thing for a racing engine.  Pistons like this may be something to consider if the problem persists.

Those Aprilias are impressive bikes.  I wish I had one but it is a good thing that I do not.  I get into enough trouble now and a lot of power is exactly what I do not need.   

The big bore engine will need a hotter cam or bigger valves, or both.  I want to get the breathing ratios up to at least as good as the little 790cc motor.  I work backwards through the formulae on the most recent posts.  Eventually I calculate valve sizes that will give me the correct breathing ratios.  6 mm bigger on the intake and 4 mm bigger on the exhaust.  These bigger valves are available and South Bay Triumph can fit them.  Now I have a plan for the next build that will happen five years down the road.  Big bore pistons in a billet block with bigger valves and a pair of 39 mm carbs.  That is all that I will need.     


 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on May 26, 2010, 03:00:04 AM
Wobbly
The 850 Mana is pretty lame compared with the other aprilias
It has  CVT Auto , which is good for me due to a lack of working parts, and screw and locknut valve adjustment
I just wish I had taken some pics
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 27, 2010, 09:25:20 PM
Yesterday was great.  The Triumph engine was together.  It was almost bedtime and all I needed to do was to adjust the valves.  My radio antenna is a wire hanging from the ceiling and I adjusted it.  I was holding a steel washer and talking to Werner.  Multi tasking.  Guys are not supposed to do this.  I dropped the Dodge washer.  It bounces off of my arm.  There are thousands of places it could land.  It drops right in to the hole in the middle of the engine where the cam chain goes.  It tinkled down like a coin in a vending machine.  It was a stainless washer so no magnet would pull it out.

Cripes, as they say down under.  There was no way I was going to turn that 200 + pound motor over and shake it out.  I hung the engine from a sawbuck and pulled the sump plate.  There is was.  The washer.  Some days a fellow is better off if he stays in bed.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dakzila on May 28, 2010, 09:53:46 AM
 :cheers:  Congrats on the easy fix....we all know it could have been worst, right?

Ron


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 28, 2010, 11:13:50 PM
Yea, at least I knew where the washer fell.

This year I am racing under a different sanctioning organization.  They are a bit fussy.  Riders need to take a physical exam.  Folks over 50 need a cardiovascular treadmill stress test.  They have this backwards.  Younger guys should take the test.  Older fellas and gals are not in shape for that kind of thing.

As always I prepare.  I stayed up past midnight last night and had a big lunch an hour before the test.  The nurse was in her 40's, with a trim figure and big green eyes.  Her assistant wired me up and she asked me a few questions.  I explained why I was taking the test.  She said "You like pizza and beer?"  I said "Yes, of course.  They are the staples of life.  How did you know?"  She said "All you motorcycle guys puke this up when you are in the ER (emergency room)."  I wanted to be somewhere else.  Then she said  "Most people in here are sick or have something wrong with them.  You are in reasonably good shape.  We will see what you can do."  Egad, now I know what my Triumph feels like.

The treadmill is a device like a belt sander turned upside down.  There are some handlebars in front of it to hang onto.  A person stands on the belt and walks or runs in place.  They turn it on and it is "Feets, do your stuff."  At first it is not too bad.  A walk is all I need.  Then she turns up the speed a bit.  Now I am walking real fast.  I do not run.  I try to look super cool and composed but this is starting to be tiring.  Then she tilts the blasted thing.  I am walking uphill fast.  About 30+ years ago I did this and it was no fun then.  At least I am not carrying a pack this time.  Finally I see black spots in front of my eyes, I am dizzy, and my legs start to cramp.  I say "I give up.  Turn it off."  She says "You passed, but your doctor will tell you the definite answer.  Toward the end you were a little hypertensive."  I do not know what hypertensive is and I do not want to find out.

Words of advice.  Never say you ride a motorcycle.  Say "Nurse, I just ate a big meal.  Projectile vomiting is never pleasant.  Just do the minimum possible to see that I can pass the test.  I will make sure I do not erupt, and if I do, it will not be in your direction."

   

 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on May 29, 2010, 06:52:54 AM
WW, you didn't tell the entire story -- at least not from my experience on the "stress test" treadmill.

When I've taken the tests (twice) I get to the spot "...Finally I see black spots..." and say I give up -- that's when the attending nurse suddenly sprouts horns and a forked tail and tells me "Good.  Now that we've got your heart going full-blast -- we need to have you continue at this rate for at least two minutes."  This is the point when i remind myself that at least I'm doing this foolishness in a hospital, 'cause when I suffer the heart attack that's only a few seconds away -- at least I'll be near help and maybe I won't simply die.  She eventually does relent and tell me I can get off the treadmill and onto the autopsy table (I'm sure they have an autopsy table there --saves time for the mortician) -- when I manage to stagger the two feet to said table I crash onto it and lie there panting and listening to the scary clatter of the pneumatic drill in the next room (and then I realize it's not an air hammer -- that noise is my heart!).

A week or two later comes the even-worse part of the story.  That's when the doctor reviews the results of the test and says something like "Well, this test showed what might be an issue, so I'd like to have a follow-up test done in two more months."  I don't know why he tells me that -- he knows that I'm about to use the double-bitted axe that I've carried with me into the Doc's exam room. . .


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 31, 2010, 01:12:58 AM
Geez, I guess I had it easy. 

The hubub about racing tires in SCTA racing made me me curious about my bike's tires.  The back tire on the Bonnie was H rated.  This tire is certified to 130 mph sustained speed, maximum.  Hopefully I will be faster than 130 this year.  It is time for a new tire.

The old tire is a 130/80 x 17 steel belted Metzeler radial.  Front tires are available in this size with high speed ratings.  I need a rear tire and I do not want to experiment.  The Metzeler Roadtech is an excellent tire.  I have one on the front.  There are no 130/80 x 17 rear tires, but there are 150/70 x 17 ZR rated rears.  This tire has a height and circumference that is similar to the 130/80 x 17 tire.  I bought one and it is wider and it fit.  There were no clearance problems.  Now I have back and front tires certified for up to 150 mph.  Both are Roadtech Metzelers and they work well together.

Early this evening I got the Triumph running.  Rosie was watching the bike go together so she got to go on the first ride with the new engine.  We went to Borders Books.  It was raining and I could not pay much attention to the bike.   



  eThis might be dangerous .   tire

  is approved rated up to a 130 mph maximum sustained speed and I hope 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on June 01, 2010, 08:36:10 AM
curious as to what the tie wraps on the
spokes do.

haven't seen that before.

franey


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bvillercr on June 01, 2010, 10:58:54 AM
I've seen it done on dirt bikes, it is used to keep them from vibrating loose. :cheers:


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: sheribuchta on June 01, 2010, 11:26:27 AM
wobbly  the zr rated is good to 200mph                                    willie buchta


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 02, 2010, 01:16:32 AM
Willy, that is nice to know and thanks for telling me.  This tire will never see 200 mph but I feel good knowing that it can do it.  A good quality tire.

Franey, spoke wrapping is something I always did with my dirt racing bikes.  I continue to do it on the Triumph.  Factory spokes on the rear wheels of these bikes are not the most reliable.  They are known to break and the tie wraps keep them from flopping around if they do.  These spokes are heavy duty ones from Buchanan Wheel in Azusa and they should not break, but I tie them anyhow.

We look down a two stroke's cylinder.  We see that the piston does not start to compress the mixture until it passes the port tops during its upward movement.  A similar thing happens with four strokes, to some degree.  The intake valve is open at bottom dead center and it does not close until after the piston has started to move upward.  The four stroke compression ratio that considers the timing of the intake valve closing, along with the engine's bore, stroke, and connecting rod length is the dynamic compression ratio.  I never figured out how to do this using pencil and paper.  Fortunately, now we have on-line calculators.  My favorite is at www.rbracing-rsr.com.  It also considers the effects of altitude.

The intake valve on the #813 cam closes at 49 degrees after bottom dead center (ABDC).  This figure is shown on the cam data sheet.  The intake valve closing on the original 790cc cam is not given in the cam data at the 0.050 inches lift value we use in the USA.  It is listed at 1mm lift.  It takes a bit of figuring to determine the closing.  Charts from previous posts are used and the 790cc intake valve closes at 37 degrees (ABDC) at 0.050 inches lift.

Experience with my 305 Honda Superhawk and BSA Spitfire showed me that putting a cam in an engine with a longer duration, alone, gives mixed results.  The engine runs great when the engine is "on the cam" and it is a bit dull and lifeless at the other engine speeds.  This is not good for a street engine built for top end power.  The engine will spend the majority of its life running in the doldrums below the speeds where the cam works best.

Lessons are learned.  Now I pay a lot of attention to dynamic compression ratio.  The 790cc engine had a 8.6 to 1 dynamic compression ratio at near sea level altitudes as shown in the table.  The 865 cc 9.1 to 1 cast pistons with the #813 cams would give me a lower 8.0 to 1 ratio.  Not good.  This would give me the same problems I had with the Honda and BSA.  I sent the cast pistons back and ordered the 865 cc 10.5 to 1 forged pistons.  Now I have a higher 9.2 to 1 dynamic compression ratio.  This will give me more performance than the standard motor at all engine speeds.

The affects of altitude on dynamic ratios are for another post.

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 03, 2010, 10:58:42 PM
Many years ago there were a number of street rodders in our neighborhood.  No one that I knew at the time had two cars.  The rod was also the daily transport.  A lot of the cars looked like the vehicles in the Venables Rods and Racing workshop.  Old Fords, Plymouths, etc.  A lot of these guys raced.  It was Sunday fun to them.  None of the cars had many wins.  These were street cars.  The Vietnam war ended this.  Most of the rodders left the 'hood.

My buddies and myself hit the streets during or a couple of years before the first Arab oil embargo.  We could not imagine that cheap or plentiful gasoline would ever happen again.  We were into bikes by necessity.  Cars and especially hot rods were not part of our lives.  One old hot rod was occasionally filled with gas and we siphoned the fuel out of it to fill our bikes.  It was the "mother ship" for us hoodlums.

The Triumph, with its 865 cc forged pistons and #813 cams, is built in the old hot rod tradition.  It is a street bike that sees some racing.  It has as many high performance parts as most race engines but it is not tuned for racing, only.  Compromises are made.  The bike has many other tasks on its list.  Next year I will put a set of 35 mm smooth bore carbs on it and I will tune the intake and exhaust.  That's about all of the engine related work for the next five years or so.

The 994 big bore engine is more of a Bonneville racing motor.  It will have about the same compression at Bonneville as my new build has in Oregon Willamette Valley.  The added displacement and compression will help make up for the power loss due to the thinner atmosphere.  Anyone building one of these Triumphs for the salt should consider the bigger engine.

This concludes the tuning part of the build.  Now, a few posts will be about putting the engine together. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on June 04, 2010, 03:36:43 PM
both answers on spokes sound
good to me.

franey


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 04, 2010, 11:57:55 PM
Now it is time to build the motor.  These posts, as with all others, are intended to show the basic things that every racer does.  Nothing fancy.

Manuals are an essential starting point.  The Triumph manual is a handy reference for an experienced mechanic.  It is a quick reference for most tasks.  The Haynes manual has the same information as the Triumph manual plus a lot more.  It shows a lot of procedures.  I use them both.

The Triumph manual is organized into chapters such as "Fuel and Exhaust," "Final Drive," etc.  My notebook is organized with the same sections.  All notes and other data for the parts covered in the Final Drive chapter are in my Final Drive notebook section.  This organization helps immensely.  I do not keep expenditure receipts.  Some things I would rather forget.

The critical engine parts have arrived from South Bay Triumph.  I asked them to make sure the bores were the right size for the pistons and to hone as needed, to check the rod small end to gudgeon pin clearances and to hone as needed, and to check and set the ring end gaps.  These are special racing parts and I do not have the experience to do this.

It has been a long time since I was a machinist and I have lost the feel that is needed to measure parts to tenths.  Thousandths is the best I can do.  I bring the pins, rods, pistons, and barrels to my machinist and he fills out many of the blanks on my 2010 Clearances form.  I measure the ring gaps and the crank and rod bearing clearances.  This form is vital as a reference for the future.     

 

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 05, 2010, 01:52:30 AM
  I do not keep expenditure receipts.  Some things I would rather forget.

That's the least of your problems....As far as relationships go the kind of money that LSR gobbles up is practically a war crime, if you keep ANY evidence of cost make sure it is in a code that even you will forget, that way even if the cojones are being twisted you won't give it up :evil:.......besides what's the point in writing something on one side of a ledger to which there will NEVER be anything on the other :roll:



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 06, 2010, 02:18:56 AM
Yes, racing costs big money.  We need to look at the good side, we would be spending the money somewhere, like on loose wimmen, gambling, or booze.  Racing keeps us out of trouble.

The engine had a little oil leak that I fixed and I have been running it about town for the last week.  Today it stopped raining and I took it out on the open road.  I cannot run it hard now, it is in the "break-in" period.  The engine runs very strong up to about 3,000 rpm.  It goes flat and stutters, then it runs like a rocket above 4,000 rpm.  I tried a few things and eliminated carb jetting as a problem.  Jetting changes do not make it run better.   

Years ago I had this same difficulty on a couple of engines that I put cams into.  It seemed like, at a certain rpm, there was a pressure wave traveling back from the closing intake valve that was confusing the carburetor.  My cure at that time was to either learn to live with the problem or to switch to a different cam.

Does anyone have any suggestions?



 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: WhizzbangK.C. on June 06, 2010, 02:32:36 PM
Yes, racing costs big money.  We need to look at the good side, we would be spending the money somewhere, like on loose wimmen, gambling, or booze.  Racing keeps us out of trouble.

The engine had a little oil leak that I fixed and I have been running it about town for the last week.  Today it stopped raining and I took it out on the open road.  I cannot run it hard now, it is in the "break-in" period.  The engine runs very strong up to about 3,000 rpm.  It goes flat and stutters, then it runs like a rocket above 4,000 rpm.  I tried a few things and eliminated carb jetting as a problem.  Jetting changes do not make it run better.   

Years ago I had this same difficulty on a couple of engines that I put cams into.  It seemed like, at a certain rpm, there was a pressure wave traveling back from the closing intake valve that was confusing the carburetor.  My cure at that time was to either learn to live with the problem or to switch to a different cam.

Does anyone have any suggestions?



 

It sounds to me like your having a problem with reversion. I believe that I suffered from the same problem last year and it prevented me from getting into top gear since my RPM dropped into the reversion zone on that upshift and it would not pull. You may remember that my bike had a very long intake between the carb and the head, and a relatively short exhaust. I'm blaming my problem on that combination. I was experimenting with the pressure waves, and I was getting positive pressure in the intake in the upper 3rd of the rpm range, and it pulled like a freight train once there, but if I can't get to that range in top gear it's not doing me any good.

For this year I'm going back to having the carb mounted at the head, and will play around with exhaust length to optimize the midrange, and hopefully get it to pull top gear and really bump my record to something a little more respectable, LOL.

You might find that the easiest way to correct your problem is by playing with the exhaust configuration. On Harleys with drag pipes I've experienced similar issues to what you describe and found that adding or modifying baffles helped. The trick as I understand it is to make the low pressure portion of the exhaust pressure waves hit the exhaust port at the same time that the cam is on overlap. This will have the effect of sucking the intake charge into the cylinder. If the high pressure wave is at the exhaust port it pushes back through the valves and doesn't let enough fresh air/fuel mixture in. A little exhaust tuning might just be the ticket for you.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: RidgeRunner on June 06, 2010, 09:58:36 PM
     Jim McFarland offers some thoughts on reversion in the August 2010 issue of Circle Track magazine, pages 16 & 18.

     I used to get a lot of "stand off" just outside the inlet to the carb on my BB34 BSA single back in the early 70's.  Always figured the fuel wasn't doing much good out there [holed the piston more than once], suspected the reground cams might not have been optimal for the rest of the combination, life got in the way before I ever really figured out what was happening.

                             Ed


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 07, 2010, 12:53:17 AM
Thanks, Ed and Ed.  Thanks for the tips.  I read up on reversion today and that is what it is.  I remember the Gold Stars, too.  They had a problem with this.  Fortunately I have all sorts of intake and exhaust parts laying about and a couple of months before BUB.  It is time for me to get the magazine and start to figure out a solution.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 08, 2010, 12:32:34 AM
This morning I pulled the noise baffles out and the Arrow pipes are straight through glass packs.  Nothing in the exhaust path.  The bike runs very good.  It is break in time so I shut down at 5,500 rpm.  It was pulling hard.  Lots of power and no stumbling.  It is quite loud so I am trying different baffle shapes.  It was reversion.

Hours, days, and years I work on the inert Triumph.  Lots of futile paths and wasted tiime and money.  Fleetingly and without warning, the monster awakes, and my fiendish dreams come true.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 09, 2010, 12:10:24 AM
Geez, I read about reversion and a lot of my bikes had problems with this.  We said the "pipes and cams were fighting each other" in our backcountry talk.  It seems to affect cammed engines the most and back pressure and reflected pressure waves are the major causes.

The mufflers are straight through glass packs and the baffles fit in the ends.  It came with eight 10 mm diameter circular holes per baffle.  I drilled another eight in each one and I enlarged every other hole to 12 mm.  This reduces back pressure.

The baffle end was flat and it was perpendicular to the flow direction.  A source of reflected waves.  I made some pointy ends out of rod stock and bolted them to the baffles.  Hopefully the points will not reflect pressure waves directly back to the valves.

Right before the test ride the rain started.  This is Oregon.  Tomorrow I will see if these work.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: fredvance on June 09, 2010, 09:10:45 AM
Why dont you just remove the baffle??


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 11, 2010, 01:08:04 AM
Fred, the baffle is only for street and road riding.

The rocket nose cone things helped a lot.  This showed me that a reflected wave was the source of most of my trouble.  The cones reflected the waves to the muffler core sides rather than straight back to the exhaust valve.  Now I tried something different.  I drilled 1/2 inch holes in the baffle ends.  This change also reduced the reflected wave and it lessened the back pressure, too.  This modification helped a lot.

Next, I pulled out the carb slides and replaced them with a set of slides that I drilled.  The air hole shown is drilled out from 2.5 mm to 3 mm using a #32 drill bit.  This trick I learned from the Jenks Bolts carb tuning pamphlet mentioned in a previous post.  The bike ran even better in the reversion zone.

The engine ran better, but it was not smooth in the 3,000 to 4,000 rpm zone, especially at 1/4 to 1/3 throttle.  These Bonnevilles wear out their jet needles and needle jets and they run rich at lower throttle openings when this happens.  My bike has 20,000 miles on it and it is overdue for a set of needles and jets.  I had a set of new jets and I installed them.  This made the bike run really well.  The reversion problem is fixed.

 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 12, 2010, 12:21:33 AM
Dyno work costs a lot of money and I pay by the hour.  The best situation is a short jetting session that accomplishes what I want.  This is what I am doing, or have done during the last few years, to prepare.

1)  I sort out the mickey mouse problems as best as I can, such as the reversion.
2)  I check and set the float levels and replace worn carb parts as needed.  The new needle jets are examples.
3)  The pilot jets are covered by aluminum plugs.  I drill them out and remove them.  Now the pilot jets can be easily changed.
4)  The cheezy soft phillips screws on the float bowls and carb tops are replaced with stanless steel allen bolts.
5)  I fill the bike with clean fresh unleaded non-etanol premium before the test.
6)  I bring a selection of jets in the sizes that I might need.

Now the mechanic can strip and rejet the carbs without taking them off of the bike or removing the seat and gas tank.  This saves me a lot of $$.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 15, 2010, 12:52:14 AM
The rod small big end bearings should be checked annually on a highly modified Triumph that is raced hard.  This is a big job with standard connecting rods.  The connecting rod bolt heads are on the bottom of the rods, and bearing inspection or renewal requires that the engine be removed from the frame and the cases be split.

The connecting rod bolt heads are on the top of the Carrillo rods.  The head, cylinders, and rods can be removed while the engine is in the frame.  These top loading rods save a lot of work.  The bearing inspection process is tricky and South Bay Triumph gave me some help.  I could not figure this out on my own.  It will take two posts to show the procedure.

First, I wash a ratchet strap so it is clean.  The strap I use held a Hinckley Triumph in its packing crate.  Usually the Triumph shop will give these away if asked.  I thread the strap under the crankshaft rod journal.

Now, I put a set of new bearing shells in the rod and I tighten the cap down so the bearing shells are centered.  I grease the lower shell with assembly lube and I unbolt the cap from the rod.

Finally, I slide the lower cap into position between the strap and the rod journal.

 
     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 15, 2010, 01:23:34 AM
.4)  The cheezy soft phillips screws on the float bowls and carb tops are replaced with stanless steel allen bolts

...when I was working for an importer it seemed almost every Bonnie that came out of the crate( yes, the splinteriest wood ever!) had to have the fuel bowls removed to get the varnish out of them before they'd run on two...got good at it after a while, also got good at holding the pipes on start up and if the temps were different then quickly shutting it down so it wouldn't be too hot to work on( best bike to burn yourself on, witness dark spot on the outside of my right forearm where it stuck to a pipe.....I had a blister half the size of my hand there....)...anyway, I always marvelled that they'd found something even SOFTER than the stuff they made the carbies out of to make the fuel bowl screws out of...it seemed that if you imagined a screwdriver while you were standing next to the bike they would burr.......


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 15, 2010, 09:37:10 PM
Doc, the carbs, soft screws aside, have given me remarkably good service.  I am a carburetor tuning klutz and these things seem to work good in spite of my best efforts to mess them up.

The big end cap is positioned on the strap so the rod will be straight up when it is bolted on.  The strap is tightened using the ratchet.  The cap is tightened against the journal enough to keep it from wiggling around.

A piece of plastigage is put on the rod.  It is held on with a small dab of grease.

The rod is positioned on the cap and the bolts are tightened as per Carrillo's instructions.  The bolts are loosened and the rod is pulled off of the cap. 

The bearing clearance is measured.  It is 0.050 mm, approximately.  This is within the 0.036 to 0.066 mm Triumph standard clearance and it is well below the 0.100 mm Triumph maximum service limit.  Normally my bike would have the "red" bearings with tighter clearances.  It came with red shells from the factory.  I am installing the looser "white" bearing shells.  This will give me additional clearance for oil flow and it is a modification for racing.

The plastigage is cleaned off, the top shell half is covered with assembly lube, and the rod is reinstalled.  It is installed in the right direction.  Carrillo has some instructions about this.  The strap is removed and the rod big end side clearances are checked.  Everything is OK.  Now it is time to move on to another step.

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 17, 2010, 08:21:52 PM
The rods are in and now it is time to fit the pistons and cylinder.  On the bench I fit the inner circlips, check the ring end gaps, and fit the rings.  Now I wrap strips of white plastic around the rings and I wrap a couple of zip ties around the plastic.  The plastic is some slippery white stuff I find at the hobby shop.  "Evergreen" brand. 

Fitting the pins is the next step.  They, and the small end bushings, are covered with assembly lube.  I never use force to install or remove gudgeon pins.  Instead, I warm the pistons with a heat gun or hair dryer.  The pins slip right into the hot pistons with a squeeze from the thumb.  The pistons are supported by two wood strips.

The cylinders are washed in hot soapy water to remove the grit from inside the hone marks.  The bores are wiped with automatic transmission fluid, and the pistons, too.  The base gasket is placed and the barrels are lowered down over the pistons.  The zip ties are cut and removed along with the white plastic strips.  The job is done.

The pistons and pins are teflon coated.  This installation method does not harm the coating.

The little studs and nuts holding the cylinders to the cases on old British twins gave me trouble and bolt metal fatigue was a topic on this forum about a year ago.  I did quite a bit of research on the subject.  The cylinder studs and the eight big bolts holding the crankcases together near the crank bearings were replaced.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on June 18, 2010, 12:50:00 AM
Uuuuum

Did you check the bearing crush?
G

From Clevites Site

Bearing crush is what holds the bearing in place. The tang on the shell that fits the saddle is only for locating the bearing during assembly.This crush, as shown on a connecting rod, is critical to bearing installation.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 18, 2010, 10:04:12 PM
Sort of.  I centered the shells in the rods and caps and noted that a little bit of the shells stuck up past the cap and rod mating faces.  This showed me that the bearing shells would be crushed when everything was tightened.  The amount the shells stuck out resembled what I am used to seeing.  I grunted with pleasure and continued the assembly.  I should have done something more accurate than this but I do not know how to do it.  I will learn.  Are there any references that show how to do it?

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on June 18, 2010, 11:10:51 PM
Sort of.  I centered the shells in the rods and caps and noted that a little bit of the shells stuck up past the cap and rod mating faces.  This showed me that the bearing shells would be crushed when everything was tightened.  The amount the shells stuck out resembled what I am used to seeing.  I grunted with pleasure and continued the assembly. 

Sounds good to me
I generally put the bearings in the rod while very carefully holding it in a soft jawed vice
Torque both bolts up, check the rod bolt stretch, then undo one of the bolts about one or so turns and measure the gap with a feeler gauge.
But I like your method as well, however I am more recently finding  problems with the calibration of my eyes. In  fact I am having problems reading the numbers on the feeler gauges.

the only even half decent thing i could find online was this on ACL's site
http://www.acl.com.au/web/acl00056.nsf/a7d23b8ace0d7e31ca2560d3001fb663/b90f8e875ec620b44a25669d0014af37?OpenDocument
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 19, 2010, 11:58:18 AM
Thanks for the info.  This will be handy on the next build.  My eyes are a problem, too.  Bifocals and a magnifying glass help.  My wife uses reading glasses for up close things.  We will need to work on bigger engines with bigger parts when we get older.

The cam is a bumpy thing that opens and closed the valves.  The ramps on the cam flanks bring some civility to the process.  They raise and lower the valves from their seats with gentle actions.  Everything works well if the valve springs are strong enough to keep the rocker arm, cam follower, etc in contact with the cam when the valve closes.  The follower will not be in contact with the cam flank if there is a weak spring.  The cam lobe will rotate out from under the follower and the valve will be slammed shut by the spring, alone.  There will be a power loss and the valve head can break off of the stem when this happens.  Experience has shown my wallet and me the consequences of weak valve springs.

A minimum valve spring free length is listed in most of our shop manuals and I measure the springs against that specification.  I always do strength tests for racing engines.  This is how I did it for this build.  It will take two posts to show this, one today and one tomorrow.

Some asking around tell me that standard Triumph springs are adequate for my hot street cam and the engine speeds allowed by the rev limiter.  There are no spring strength specs in my manuals.  I buy two new springs.  Their strengths will give me a basis for decisions.

I take one of the handles off of my drill press and screw off the knob.  This gives me a threaded rod.  A nylock nut goes on top of the rod and and then the valve spring and a couple of washers go onto the rod.  The agglomeration is hung through a hole on the drill press table and a screw eye is threaded on the rod.  Two hooks are hung from the eye.  A dial indicator is placed above the hanger and the tip rests on the rod top.

I hunt around for a weight that will compress the spring 1/8 to 1/4 or so of the distance to coil bind.  A 25 # weight does the trick.  I mark it.  It is the preloading weight and it is always hung first. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 21, 2010, 12:02:39 AM
The dial indicator reading is recorded for the preload weight.  Now all of the rest are put on for 85# total.  The dial indicator is read and recorded a second time.  This is done for all eight valve springs.  I am getting tired ... I fell like I have been lifting weights.  I am glad I do not have a 32 valve V-8.

The difference in dial indicator readings is the distance the spring compressed under load.  All springs are OK.  I replace the weakest old spring with the strongest new spring.  The spring strength records are put in the notebook.  The tests will be done again during the next tear down to see if there are any changes. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 22, 2010, 10:47:23 PM
The Triumph is at the end of the break in period.  Overall, the new motor did not meet my expectations.  The power at low to moderate rpm was less or equal to the old build and the baffles made things worse.  My tuning during the last few weeks made the situation better, but still for street use, I did not gain anything.

This evening, after work, I took it on a 50 mile test loop of back roads in the Cascade mountains and foothills.  No baffles this time.  There is this two lane road.  I crest a hill and I can see for miles across the wheat fields and the road stretches out straight before me.  Policemens are never there.  No hiding places.  No deer or other critters.  I checked the mirrors and no one was following, then I turned the Triumph loose.  Not much happened.  Then, suddenly, this horrible howl came out of the intakes and I was gone.  The road got narrow really quick and I had to shift fast to keep up with the engine.  It was scary.  The power is there.  It is hiding up high in the rev range where I need it for B-ville.  Mission accomplished.  The #813 cam is responsible for this madness and the next few posts will address basic cam setup.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 24, 2010, 12:27:23 AM
The #813 cams have more valve lift than the standard cams.  This check makes sure that the new cams do not bang the valve spring retainers into the valve guide oil seals.  The chart shows a measurement A and B.  A is measured as shown in the picture.  B is too, and the valve is closed when this is done.  C is from the cam data sheet.  Some simple arithmetic gives the distance D.  This is the clearance between the spring retainer bottom and the valve guide seal top.  The cam manufacturer recommends that D be greater than 0.030 inches.

Let's imagine that I want to install a cam with higher lift in the future.  The shortest D distance is 0.087 inches.  0.087 - 0.030 = 0.057 inches.  The higher lift cam should not provide more than 0.057 inches additional lift.  More lift than 0.057 inches may be is possible if modified valve spring keepers or valve guides are installed.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 25, 2010, 12:59:03 AM
The next step is to verify that the new higher lift cam does not cause coil bind.  Also, the spring compressed lengths will be calculated to see if any springs need to be shimmed.

Coil bind occurs when the spring is compressed to the extent that all of the the coils are touching each other.  The spring is solid.  Coil bind can damage the engine.  The cam manufacturer recommends 0.015 inches gap between each coil at a  minimum.  A spring is compressed in a vise until coil bind and its length is measured.  0.015 inches is added to the compressed spring length for each coil gap.  The minimum spring compressed length is 1.082 inches as shown on the top ot the calculation page.

The distance A between the retainer spring seat and the valve tip is measured.  This is different than the "A" used in the retainer to seal gap clearance calcs in the previous post.  Distance B is measured, too.  It is the distance between the lower spring seat and the talve tip when the valve is closed.  Distance C is from the cam data card.  Some simple math tells me the compressed length for each spring.  All are less than the 1.082 inch minimum.  Not good.

Now I compress a spring to 1.037 inches in a vice.  This is the most highly compressed spring.  The gaps between the middle coils are 0.025 inches and the coils near the ends are at coil bind.  Not ideal, but the spring is not at coil bind.  The springs will work OK.

Now I look at the compressed spring lengths again.  Are any springs not compressed enough?  If so, I will put a shim under them to compress them to the same length as the others.  The shims look like machined steel washers.  No springs are long enough to require a shim.

These little calculations tell me a third thing.  The #813 cam has the most lift that the standard valve train can tolerate.  Any more lift will cause coil bind in the standard Triumph valve springs.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 29, 2010, 12:19:05 PM
The valves and springs are installed.  The next task is to check to see that the valve heads do not contact each other.  This can happen during the overlap phase of the valve opening and closing cycles.  A few months ago I did calculated the larger valve sizes I would need with a big bore kit.  I also check to see if there is enough clearance to use these larger valves with this cam.  I forgot to take pictures when I did this.  Some other pictures will be used.

The head is off of the engine and the cams are installed in the head along with the correctly timed drive gears.  This is like in the picture except the cam chain is not hooked up.  There are hexes on the cam shafts.  One of the cams is slowly turned with a wrench and the other cam revolves, too. 

The other picture shows the cylinder head underside and the valves are closed in the photo.  The clearance is measured between the valve heads at the time when both valves are being lifted by the cams.  The cam data card lists the minimum clearance.  There is plenty of clearance on this engine for the valves that I have and the bigger valves that I might use in the future.

This should be done carefully.  Sometimes radically tuned engines will have valves that contact each other.  In these cases the cams are adjusted, usually by spreading the lobe center angles, so the valves do not hit each other.       



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 29, 2010, 01:14:44 PM
This post is not on the subject of cams.  The bike engine is together and ready to start.  I disable the ignition and the carbs are not installed.  There are some items to check before it runs under its own power.

Rarely an oil pump will be encountered that needs to be primed before it will pull oil from the sump.  I have been advised that this might occur with the Hinckley Bonneville.  The pumps will be primed and it is a good idea for all engines when it can be done.  There are two oil pumps.  One I prime by pouring oil into the radiator from the top and the lube flows down into the pump.  The other I prime by pouring oil down onto the hole for the feed line to the oil pressure indicator light switch.  The pumps are primed and I fill the engine.  All oil feed line bolts are finger tight at this stage.

Now I slowly rotate the engine and everything turns freely in all gears and in neutral.  It is possible to put together a trans so it shifts into two gears at the same time and it locks up.  It is good to make sure this does not happen before the bike is ridden.

Both spark plugs are pulled and a compression gauge is installed on one cylinder.  I hook up the battery and spin the engine to get a compression reading.  210 psi.  Good.   Now the gauge is switched.  210 psi on the other.  Good, too.  The plugs are installed.

Oil is weeping from all fittings.  The oil is circulating to everywhere that it should.  The fittings are tightened up and the engine is installed into the frame.   

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 30, 2010, 10:41:31 AM
The valve head to piston clearances are checked.  Many methods have been used over the years and this one works best for me.  First, I clean all oil off the piston crowns and I put on dabs of soft modeling clay.  Then, I rub some oil on the valve heads.  I do not want the clay to stick to the valves.  Some method is needed to turn the crank.  I do not use the starter motor.  An allen wrench is used to turn the crank.  This hand method is what I want.  I will stop turning if I feel any resistance from a valve hitting a piston.

The Triumph valves are necked so the stems near the heads are narrower than the stems in the valve guides.  This improves airflow and it makes them lighter but they are easily bent.  Most of my experience with bending valves is when they nip up against the side of the valve pockets in the piston crowns.  I am very careful now.  I shim the head above the cylinders with three washers each on six of the eight studs and I do not bolt the head down.   I hook up the cams to the cam chain and drive gears.  Now I hold the head down on the cylinders with my hand and I slowly rotate the crank.  The only resistance that I should feel is the clay being squished.  Any harder resistance is a danger sign and I need to stop turning the crank.

Now I remove the drive gears and I pull the head off.  I cut the clay across the marks where the valves touched the clay.  Examining the cut clay shows me my clearances.  The clearances seem to be OK.  The process is repeated with only one washer on each stud and clearances look good.  Then is is repeated a final time with only the head gasket on and 5 lbs-ft torque on the head bolts.

The cam data card gives the minimum valve head to piston crown clearance.  All are OK.  I note that I will also have sufficient clearances with the larger valves that I am considering for the future. 

An additional step would be done if the clearances were near or at the minimum.  I would retard both cams one tooth and recheck the clearances.  This would resemble the engine if the cam chain was very worn.  I would change the chain before it was this badly worn, however. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 01, 2010, 06:30:54 PM
Cam timing was going to be the last post on cams.  The cams on these silly bikes are installed as provided.  They cannot be degreed in or adjusted, unlike the old Triumphs.  Such is progress.  A few thoughts about cams before moving on to other subjects.

The cams are part of an engine system composed of the velocity stacks, carbs, intake runners, ports and valves, pistons, exhaust, and ignition.  On the Triumph the cams and pistons are designed to work with each other.  Logical thinking extends no further.  The velocity stacks are "lucky" and I always run them, I have a bazillion jets for the carbs and they are paid for so they will be used another year, the intake runners are my work and I cannot toss them, although I should, the valve and port work is permanent and it cannot be undone, the pipes are a set of titanium Italian beauties that I got on a once-in-a-lifetime deal, and ignition black boxes are a mystery to me so I leave them alone.  Needless to say, this hokey combo does not give me optimum performance.  Maybe I will be lucky and go faster than last year.

The smart way to do this is to talk with the person that developed the cam and use the intake, exhaust, etc. that they used to develop the big horsepower when they designed the cam.  This way, everything should work together.

I always talk to the person that developed the cam before I buy.  A lot of the discussion is about whether or not it will do want I want.  All of the "fitting" topics shown in the previous posts are discussed.  Any engine work that is needed to get the bump sticks into the engine is talked about.  An "understanding" is reached.  Both of us agree about the work that I am expected to do, or to pay for, to install the cam.

Sometimes things do not go exactly according to everyone's best intentions.  Valves bang into pistons, springs bind, etc.  The cam must be reground or exchanged for another one if this occurs. Some additional engine work might be needed, like relieving pistons or shortening valve guides.  I always work with a reputable shop that will treat me fairly if this happens.

Last, cam work is not for the last minute.  Plenty of months should be scheduled to order and install the little devils.  Time to deal with the unexpected in essential.  This is all that I know about cams.     

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 02, 2010, 05:00:10 PM
These last few days I have been at a family reunion in the hill country east of Sacramento.  It is my turn to go into town for supplies.  A bottle of bourbon is on the shopping list.  Into the likker store I go.  A big shelf of bourbons await.  What brand do I pick?  There are these bottles of Old Crow.  The bird on the label was just like the bird on the belly tank.  That stuff powers the old four cylinder engine in the tank, and probably the driver, too, I figure.  It must be good enough to fuel my relatives, so I bought a bottle.  Never underestimate the power of advertising.

Sometimes bike cases do not split easily.  The Triumph cases are very stubborn and a new pair costs $3,500.  These cases must be opened with care.  First, I reread the crankcase sections of both manuals and I look everything over real good.  I am looking for some bolts that I forgot to undo.  All bolts are removed so it is the gasket cement that is holding the cases together.

Now I find two turnbuckles, four bolts, and four carabiner clips.  Two bolts are inserted through the engine mount holes in each case and the other hardware is arranged as shown in the pictures.

The turnbuckles are turned so they expand and they put tension on the to crankcases.  Now I tap the cases around the joints and at other places with a piece of wood.  Lots of tension and shocks from the wood eventually make the crankcases pop apart.

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: theazoldcrow on July 03, 2010, 10:12:32 AM
 :cheers:  Very good choice of likkers!!!      The Arizona "Old Crow"!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 12, 2010, 01:26:02 AM
The whiskey was for my mother.  She is 89 years old, in good shape, and she takes no medications.  Maybe a drink or three a day keeps the doctor away.

The engine break in lubrication was discussed with the cam grinder and the piston and ring supplier.  Some special things were done based on their concerns and recommendations.

Break in oil is a big concern.  The Triumph uses synthetic oil and it is difficult or impossible to seat piston rings in an engine running synthetic.  I did two things to make sure the rings seated.  First, the pistons, rings, and bore were oiled with automatic transmission fluid when they were assembled.

Second, a basic mineral oil was used for the break in.  The rings would seat with this oil.  Unfortunately, this modern motor oil did not have enough zinc and phosphorous to protect the cams and followers.  Flat tappet engines like the Triumph motor need about 1,600 parts per million (ppm) zinc and 1,300 to 1,400 ppm phosphorous based on some notes I made years ago.  My notes also say that the levels should not be higher than 2,000 ppm for one of these metals or "chunking" will occur.  I did not write down if this limit was for zinc or phosphorous.  Some Red Line "Engine Oil Break-In Additive" was used to bring the zinc and phosphorous contents up to the desired levels.  I used instructions in http://www.nitemareperformance.150m.com/ZDDP.html  The break in oil was used for 500 miles and it was drained.

The oil filter was changed and the regular engine oil was added.  I take advantage if the new filter element materials and I use Purolator "Pure One" or Mobil 1 "Extended Performance" filters.  This time I installed a Mobil 1 M1-108 filter.  I install a new filter during every oil change.

These engines lube the clutch, transmission, and primary gears with the engine oil.  This is not an ideal situation and the engine oil should have an additive package that is specifically designed for this.  Triumph recommends the oil meet API SG, API SH, and JASO MA specifications.  These are stringent specs.  I use Mobil 1 Racing 4T.  It meets these specs, it is designed to lubricate engines with gearboxes and clutches sharing the same oil, and the zinc content is 1,600 ppm and the phosphorous content is 1,700 ppm, as per info on the Mobil 1 website.  These metal contents are what I need.

Triumph are vague about the required oil weight.  The owners handbook recommends 15W/50, and the shop manual asks for 10W/40 or 15W/40.  These engines do not run hot and the 10W/40 is what I use and it seems to work well.  Thinner oil means requires less horsepower to pump and fling around in the engine.

This post simply tells about what I do.  It is not an endorsement for specific products.  There are others that will work just as good as the ones that I use.   

 

     



   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 12, 2010, 10:47:19 PM
The break in period is an important time for an engine and motorcycle.  The machined and ground parts rub against each other and the rough surfaces wear and become smoother, the brake pads seat, the tires scuff in, etc.  The people who supplied the pistons, rings, and cam were consulted about the break in procedures they preferred.  This is the important first step.  For example, the engine speed was kept above 2,000 rpm for the first 15 minutes of operation based on instructions from the cam grinder.

It is important to seat the piston rings before the cylinder hone marks are worn smooth.  Combustion chamber pressure does this.  The combustion pressure pushes the rings outward against the cylinder walls and this helps them seat.  Combustion chamber pressures are often highest when the engine is run hard at lower speeds.  At first, I gave the engine a few short bursts of throttle at lower to mid engine speeds.  Blasting around the neighborhood, it was.  I gradually increased the intensity and duration of these bursts as the engine broke in.  At 600 miles I was riding as I normally do.  The things I avoided during the earlier portion of the break in period were high rpm and sustained operation under heavy loads.

The old British bikes needed top to bottom service after break in, such as a complete screw and bolt tightening, cylinder head and cylinder base nut retorque, etc.  These new Bonnevilles do not need all of this attention.  All I did was synchronize the carbs, lube and adjust the chain, change the oil and filter, check the spokes, adjust the cables, and make sure the valve clearances were OK.  That's all.

My bike has over 20,000 miles on it and it was assembled with looser racing tolerances.  It is ready to race after the initial 500 mile break in.  The bikes as new are built like the old air cooled BMW's.  They are assembled with tight tolerances and they should not be raced until they are fully broken in.  My best guess is about 3,000 miles of normal street use is a good break in period before any racing.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 13, 2010, 11:50:03 PM
The Triumph and me will be racing under a different sanctioning body this year.  I do not know how fussy they will be about technical matters and I am replacing some of the hillbilly "get 'er done" things I use.  The engine kill switch was an item I made from an aftermarket fuse block and stuff laying around the shop.  It worked OK but it looked hokey.  The replacement is a Pingel switch I bought from Tiger Racing at www.TigerRacingProducts.com  Pingel has two grades of kill switches and racers have advised me to use their best switch.  The switch is shown on the Triumph seat.

The switch connects into the ignition wiring with a standard automotive connector.  Normally I zip tie the wires to the frame on both sides of the connector.  This makes sure the connector will not be pulled apart.  I could only zip tie the wires to the frame on one side of the connector, so I put a tie on the connector.  This will make sure it is not accidentally pulled apart.

The switch is shown when it is ready to be used.  The telephone cord is tied to a zip tie on my right wrist.  The clip is pulled out from under the spring loaded button when I fall off.  The button snaps down and the ignition circuit is opened.  No electricity flows to the ignition coil and the engine stops.  The telephone cord tucks away near the headlight for street use.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Queeziryder on July 14, 2010, 05:47:12 AM
Hi WW,
With regard to the lanyard on your kill switch;
The problem with that type of stretchy plastic cord, is that they break if you do not pull them out exactly squarely to the r-clip on the end. :-o
It's far safer to use a length of leather cord, or something similar with a high breaking strength. :-D
The stretchy plastic type was frowned upon by scrutineers in the UK for drag racing, after a couple of rider "get offs" where the bike kept running. :roll:

Best of luck
Neil
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 14, 2010, 07:26:32 PM
Thanks Neil.  I will use a cord.  Your motto at the bottom of your post sums up my attitude, too.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on July 14, 2010, 07:40:50 PM
Hi WW,
With regard to the lanyard on your kill switch;
The problem with that type of stretchy plastic cord, is that they break if you do not pull them out exactly squarely to the r-clip on the end. :-o
It's far safer to use a length of leather cord, or something similar with a high breaking strength. :-D
The stretchy plastic type was frowned upon by scrutineers in the UK for drag racing, after a couple of rider "get offs" where the bike kept running. :roll:

Best of luck
Neil
 :cheers:

I've found those curly cords that motorcycles use to remind them there is a disc brke lock on work well as they have a wire up the inside?
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 14, 2010, 08:39:22 PM
Years ago in machine shop class they had safety movies.  Some poor guy was working on a lathe and he got his necktie caught in his work.  The last thing he saw was an up close view of the turning chuck.  That movie made an impression on me.  The lanyard tether is a dangling thing that can get caught in the chain, spinning wheel, etc.  Tomorrow I will try a few lanyards and figure out which one pulls the pin and is weak enough to break if it gets caught in the chain.

The bike runs like a Kawasaki 500cc blue streak triple.  Tomorrow I take it to the dyno tuner and someone smarter than me will try to tame the beast.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 16, 2010, 12:43:03 AM
Today I noticed that I am getting grey fast and wrinkly around the eyes.  I wear a hat often and smile with my mouth closed.  My hair quantity and tooth count are personal matters.  My attitude to racing has changed, too.  I am very careful and I scare easily, and sometimes I pursue my goals with grim determination, although I still have fun.  My goals have changed, too.  Simply racing in Australia, riding around the Isle'o'Man, and getting into the USFRA 130 club.  What made me think about this was a recent post by a newer member about setting a 300+ mph record in a Studebaker on his first visit to the salt.  I sure miss those days of youthful and boundless optimism, a time when everything is possible.

Today was dyno day.  The next two or three posts will show what happened.  Maybe this info will help a person who has not used this tuning instrument.

Preparation includes making sure that all systems are OK except for the one that needs to be analyzed.  Dyno work is expensive and it saves $ if it is focused on a specific problem.  In my session the goal is jetting the carbs.  This bike is built and raced in the old street rod tradition.  Normally it has air cleaners and exhaust baffles.  The filters are pulled and replaced with velocity stacks and the baffles are removed, and then it is race time.  The carbs are jetted for the stacks and open pipes.  One picture shows the table out in front of the shop with the baffles, filters, etc.  I make the change from street to racing configuration right after I arrive at the shop.   

It is nice to be able to compare a current dyno session result to a previous one.  I always use the same fuel type, as much as practical.  In my case it is unleaded ethanol-free premium.  I type "ethanol free gas oregon" into my search engine.  All sorts of websites that list places where I can get gas without corn likker are listed.  I fill up a 5-gallon jerry can with the gas, drain the old gas from my tank, and refill it with the good stuff.

The mechanic rolls Bonnie onto the dyno and clamps the front wheel into a vise and an exhaust gas sampler is put into the muffler.  A roller is centered under the rear wheel.  The torque that is transmitted to the roller is measured and this is called "rear wheel torque."  The amount of torque that is transmitted is affected by many things in the driveline, such as chain type and condition, tire pressure, and tyre type.  In order to compare session results to each other, I always use the same type of power transmission components, such as an x-ring chain in good condition and a radial tire inflated to 38 psi.  Some people have a tire that is used for dyno work, only.  My dyno tire is in the attic.  I am too lazy to put it on.

The dyno is a computerized system.  My run from three years ago is retrieved from the files and the mechanic discusses it with me.  The run data lists the work that was done to the motor at that time, the carb settings, the atmospheric conditions, and it gives output for fuel/air, torque, and horsepower.  The mechanic asks about my new engine build and he records the data.  I describe my problems with poor performance and say that it has something to do with the carbs.     



     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 16, 2010, 08:54:38 PM
The mechanic asks me what jetting do I want.  I say "Jet it like a street bike.  This will be close enough for B'ville. I will fine tune the main jets when I am on the salt."  He can give me horsepower curves that are calculated by up to six different methods.  I ask for data figured by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) procedure.  All of my old data is SAE and I can compare.  The dark blue horsepower curves on the printouts show the same dyno run.  The SAE method calculates 70.64 horses and the DIN, a European standard, calculates 72.34 horses.

The bike is shown in the dyno room.  It is a hot and noisy place.  I am sent to the showroom while the work is being done.  There is a new Bonneville there and it is painted in the 1960 color scheme.  The new tanks have a funny shape and I could learn to like it.  There is a fuel injection system in and under that tank.  No carbs.
 
The intial run on Bonnie yields 42 horsepower.  The mechanic discovers that the diaphragm for the vacuum operated slide on one carb was pinched during an improper installation.  The slide would not lift properly.  That was my big mistake.  He installed the diaphragm correctly.  The jetting is next.     

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 18, 2010, 12:21:26 AM
The baffles are pulled out of the pipes and the velocity stacks are installed.  I ask the mechanic to jet it like a street bike and I say I will fine tune the main jets at B'ville.  I will never run the bike this way on the street, I use air filters and my quiet street pipes.  My jetting is just right, or very close, on the salt using the race gas.  This method works because of the difference in the oxygen contents of unleaded premium and race gas.

There are two subtle things about jetting this race engine that are not obvious, but they are very important.  First, it is assumed that the air/fuel mixture ratio shown on the printout is that of the exhaust gas, and it is not always the mixture in the cylinder and combustion chamber.  This cam has significant overlap and at some engine speeds the resonance in the intake and exhaust systems might blow fresh air/fuel mixture through the inlet valve and right out past the exhaust valve and down the exhaust.  At other engine speeds the reverse could happen, and the exhaust could be pulled back through the inlet valve and it can contaminate the fuel/air mixture.  For these reasons and others, the indicated fuel air mixture is not always the mixture that is being combusted.  This problem is overcome by different methods.  The mechanic doing this work prefers to determine optimal jetting by comparing the power curves that are produced by the different jets.  Years ago I watched a dyno operator that measured temperature to arrive at the optimal mixture settings.

Second, it is hard to find the best fuel/air ratio unless the ratios that are too rich and too lean are known.  Assuming the initial run indicates a lean condition, the mechanic will gradually decrease the fuel/air ratio until the mixture is obviously too rich.  Then, the jetting combination that produces the best mixture, between being too rich or lean, will be chosen.  Conversely, if the initial mixture is rich, the mixture will be made leaner until it is obviously too lean, then the intermediate size jets producing the best fuel/air ratio will be selected.  The attached printout shows the power difference, almost 1 horsepower, caused by simply moving the needle jet clip one notch.





Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 18, 2010, 01:15:48 PM
Heidi Rose, my oldest girl, is taking her motorcycle training course this weekend.  She is on the little red Suzuki.  This afternoon we will go to the Kawasaki shop and look at the 250 Ninja. 

The jetting is done and I have a torque curve for the new build.  This curve gives me a lot of useful information.  The torque peaks at 5,800 rpm and it drops off rapidly.  My target rpm, and this is the engine speed I try to run at through the measured mile, is 7,500 rpm.  The new build and the old one have the same torque at this rpm.

First, a look at sprocket sizes for this year's BUB meet.  Last year I ran 127.14 mph at 7,450 rpm using 19 and 43 tooth engine and wheel sprockets, respectively.  The new build has the same torque at that engine speed as the old motor.  It is likely that I will not go faster with the old 19/43 combo.  This year I will use 19/42 chainwheels.  The engine will be turning less rpm when I get to top speed.  The peak torque for the new build is at lower RPM, too, so this gearing change is a better match for the new build.

Will I go faster?  All of the gears, sprockets, wheels, etc. in the bike are levers, and the 19/42 gearing will give the pistons less leverage to move the bike across the salt.  This may offset the greater torque and result in speeds similar to last year's.  I hope for more speed, but the reality is, I probably will not get it.

The second thing I see in this dyno printout is the need to do more work.  Torque should fall off after 7,000 rpm, rather than 6,000 rpm.  More torque at higher rpm = increased horsepower = greater speed.  Less restrictive carbs and tuned intakes and exhausts will do this.  This will be next winter's project.

The dyno work took 7 hours at $80 per.  Big dollars, and is it worth it?  The bike I brought into the shop had a power band like a Kawasaki triple and made a trifling 42 horsepower.   It was thrilling to ride and it felt fast, but in reality, it was not.  It came out of the shop correctly jetted with 70 horsepower.  I have the info I need to set my gearing for next year, and I know what changes I need to do to the torque curve to go faster.  Money well spent.

This engine build has cost a lot of money and it required some very special parts and a lot of good advice.  We got a break on some part costs, a few things were given to us, and there was a donation of many hours of dyno time.  The team Go Dog, Go mutts would be sleeping under the porch all summer if it was not for this help.  Special thanks to Cascade Moto Classics of Beaverton, Oregon, South Bay Triumph of Lomita, California, and folks on this forum.  We are ready to go!   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: SlyOneJr on July 18, 2010, 01:28:48 PM
Tell her that the Ninja 250 can also work as a LSR bike, just as Slim and Nancy and Racer X on here. I'm planning on using the motor to power a Lakester myself. Nice little bikes!

Jeff


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on July 18, 2010, 03:03:56 PM
Congratulations to heidi Rose for taking the MSF course.  I never did -- and still would take it if they'd let me in.  (I say that 'cause the course is only offered for a few months here and "newbies" get first dibs on the openings.  There are never opening for already-licensed bike riders.  Too dang bad. . .).

Anyway, WW, keep this in mind -- that you might have let the cat out of Pandora's box and now it's too late.  Nancy had never been on a motorcycle 'til she met me.  She took the MSF course about eight years ago -- and now she holds a record over 200 mph.  Best wishes to both of you!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 21, 2010, 12:37:36 AM
The trip home was a lot of fun after the jetting.  There was a lot of power and noise.  The bike has a sharp exhaust note and it reminds me of the howls from cats making love.  It was entertaining for awhile and then it started to drive me nuttier.  About halfway home I pulled to the road side and I put in the baffles.  The bike ran OK at low rpm with the baffles and at higher er engine speeds it would sputter.  I could not go faster than 50 mph.  I pulled to the roadside again and I pulled the baffles out.  The baffles were covered with black soot and fresh gasoline was dripping from the filters.  This bike, with the baffles in, was obviously having reversion and standoff.  The bike must work well and be quiet at the same time.

Reversion is a reverse flow through the intake tracts from the intake valves out toward the bell mouths.  It can force clouds of unburned fuel out of the carburetor intakes.  The mixture can be suspended in the intake streams just outside of the bellmouths, hence the term standoff.  The standoff was saturating the air filters with gasoline.

Reversion starts in the exhaust system.  The exhaust gases travel travel down the headers and through the mufflers in waves.  There are pressure waves when the gas is pushed out of the exhaust ports and these waves are interspersed with vacuum waves.  The pressure waves suddenly expand when they exit the mufflers and this creates another set of pressure and vacuum waves that are reflected back into the exhaust system.  These pressure and vacuum waves interact with the opening and closing exhaust valves in different ways.

The exhaust and intake valves are open at the same time during the overlap part of the valve opening and closing cycles.  Valve overlap is hard to quantify.  I express overlap as inches lift x degree crank rotation.  Graphs of valve lift versus rotation during overlap have triangle shapes.  I call these overlap triangles.  See attached sketch.  The overlap period is a time when the exhaust gas that is pushed into the combustion chamber can travel past the inlet valve and into the inlet tract.  The #813 cam in 865 cc Build 1 has 0.53 inches lift x degree duration and the Triumph 790 cc cam has much less, at about 0.35 inches lift x degree rotation.  The new cam creates a much larger opening during the overlap period.

Note the torque curves on the torque comparison chart in the previous post.  Many factors contribute to the dips and bumps in these curves.  Reversion is the main cause of the the big dips at the lower-midrange engine speeds.  The 865 cc engine build has a much deeper dip.  Contributing factors are the larger overlap window to convey reversion waves and the more intense exhaust pressure waves created by the larger and higher compression engine.

The baffles are reflective surfaces and they increased the intensity of the waves traveling back through the exhaust system.  The torque curve shows that the reversion dip was present when the baffles were out and baffles simply made the problem worse.  The next posts will show how I fixed the problem.             

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: octane on July 21, 2010, 06:53:19 AM
Wobbly !...just to let you know that I enjoy intensely reading your posts here ( and elsewhere, for that matter )!

(Some of it goes right over my head, but that's my problem.)


Thanks !


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: charlie101 on July 21, 2010, 09:48:17 AM
Wobbly, would you please make the last image of your notes larger if you can, 58 kb is too small  it only shows up as pixels when I try to enlarge. 75 to 80 kb is better as previous pics. Your notes especially is highly regarded and much appreciated.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 21, 2010, 11:45:35 PM
The overlap triangles are included in a bigger format.  Hopefully this works.  The old Triumph twins had independent exhaust and intake cams and there was a feature that allowed them to be adjusted.  Cam timing during overlap was an important part of performance tuning.  I put a dial indicator on the valve keeper and a degree wheel on the crank to determine the cam timing.  This time, I made some educated guesses based on the timing card data and estimated the cam timing curves.  This will illustrate the idea I am talking about.  The actual measured overlap triangles may be a bit different.

Years ago, about 45 to be exact, my buddies and I were thrashing and crashing Triumph and BSA twins.  One day I crumpled up my header pipe and I scrounged a replacement from my friend.  His header pipe was from a later model A-65 and it had a cross-over pipe between the headers and in front of the cylinder head.  I had to replace both headers because my older pipes did not have the cross-over.

My bike had a cammy Spitfire engine and it was hard to ride.  It had dips and peaks on the torque curve.  The torque curve was much smoother after I installed my friend's header pipes and it was the cross-over pipe that made the difference.  The later model Triumph twins had cross-over pipes, too, and we put them on a few bikes in order to make them more manageable.

These old memories were remembered when I got home last weekend.  I took off the sexy titanium Italian Arrow pipes and put them away.  I hunted around and found the frumpy steel Triumph header pipes out in the bone yard.  They have a cross-over pipe, and I polished them up and put them on.  A short romp around the neighborhood, sans mufflers, proved that the cross-over pipe trick worked again.  No reversion.

The principles are easy to understand.  Let's look at the right hand header.  Exhaust gas pressure and vacuum pulses travel down the right header and they pass over the cross-over pipe opening.  Pressure and vacuum pulses from the left header are coming in through the cross-over pipe.  These pulses are timed so the pulses coming in through the cross-over from the left header occur when pulses of the opposite type are passing by in the right header.  The pressure pulses partially neutralize the vacuum pulses, and vise versa.  The pressure and vacuum pulses in the headers downstream from the cross-over are less intense than they are upstream.

These less intense pulses travel down through the muffler and out of the exhaust.  They expand when they are no longer confined, and pressure and vacuum waves are created that travel back up the pipe.  The important thing is, the weaker pulses going out create weaker pulses going back in, and there is some further weakening of these pulses when they pass by the cross-over pipe openings on their return trips.  The weakened return pulses do not have enough energy to push the inlet charges back into the inlet tracts. Reduced or no reversion are the results.

 

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 22, 2010, 09:10:53 PM
It was 1973 when I crashed my BSA and put on the new pipes.  This is 37 years ago.  My math was off and I like to keep things accurate.

Fortunately, there are all sorts of mufflers out in the bone pile.  I tried a few and one pair worked very well.  The bike is quiet and there is no reversion problem.  They are Triumph off-road mufflers.  They are straight through glass packs with a 1-inch inner diameter.

There are two things about these mufflers that make them work well with the long duration cams.  There are no obstructions that project into the exhaust openings.  A broom handle will pass through the entire length.  Also, the transition from the 1-1/2 inch diameter header to the 1-inch diameter muffler is gradual.  The lack of projections or abrupt transitions help to minimize reversion.  There are no surfaces or sharp transitions inside the exhaust to create pressure and vacuum waves.  Now the bike is quiet and it runs good.

Right now there are pod filters on the intakes and there is no runner length upstream from the carburetors.  Experts on these bikes recommend that I reinstall the air box for street use.  They say the bell mouths in the air box are another countermeasure against reversion.

The moral to the story.  Never toss anything.  There are advantages to having a small personal junkyard.  Who knows what parts will be handy in the future.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 26, 2010, 12:33:46 AM
It is getting close to salt time and the last minute thrash.  Will this bike withstand the rigors of LSR?  Is the engine put together OK?  Are the rods and pistons strong enough?  Yesterday my oldest daughter and me devised the Flower Picture Test.  We pottered around near the east side of town and photographed the flower fields.  This is what we saw. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 26, 2010, 12:37:14 AM
The bike survived the test.  A few more pix.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 26, 2010, 05:16:06 PM
"Remove the pod filters and put the air box back on.  This will improve your gas mileage and smooth out the power curve at low to mid range."  Two people with a lot of knowledge about these bikes tell me this.  I go out to the junk pile and find the air box.  A quick spray of Raid takes care of the resident arachnids and I put the air box back on.  Now the question is "Is my Unifilter oiled foam filter OK for a 70 horsepower engine, or do I need another type?"

I do not have a clue as to the answer, so I do my usual routine.  I go to Borders Books, buy a latte, and browse through the Transportation section.  I do this a lot so I know what books are there.  There is a new book that has been put on the shelf last week, I look in it, and it has the information I need.  The book is ISBN 978-1-934709-17-7 David Vizard's "How to Build Horsepower:  Proven Methods for Increasing Horsepower in Any Engine."  Mr. Vizard lives in America and he is originally from England.  Things I learned from his articles in Hot Rod and other magazines have been used previously in this build.

Air filter flow capacities are discussed in Chapter 2:  Primary Induction.  The oiled foam filter is not the optimum setup.  It can filter air for engines up to 3.5 horsepower per square inch filter area without measurable power loss based on Vizard's experience.  Now I measure the air filter area.  The area width is the circumference as shown in the photo.  The Triumph filter has a 6" x 10.125 " = 60 square inches area.  This filter is adequate for 60 x 3.5 = 210 horsepower engines.  My 70 horsepower motor is well below this and the oiled foam filter is OK.

The air box does make the engine run better.  There is no noticeable dip in the torque curve at the low to mid range transition.  Gas mileage is slightly better at 39 mpg on the highway.  I had my crab trap, crab pot, portable stove, and beer cooler on the bike when I recorded this mileage.  It was not very aerodynamic.  Mileage should be in the 40's for normal highway use.  It was always in the mid 30's with the pod filters.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: landsendlynda on July 26, 2010, 05:23:02 PM
So, WW....how was the crabbing?   :roll:

Lynda


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 28, 2010, 12:22:51 AM
All I caught was a little red rock crab and a starfish.  Really, all I wanted to do was be in the warm sunshine all day.  A rare treat that we get for a few months.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 28, 2010, 08:25:54 PM
This year I finished the build on the long block and it is tested and broken in.  The street induction and exhaust systems are figured out.  No more work is needed there.  Now it is time to get the racing induction and exhaust systems working.  The bike is about ten horsepower down from where it should be.  The standard carbs cannot flow enough air and correctly atomize the fuel mixture at high rpm.  This cannot be fixed.  I have enough money to get to Bonneville, barely.  The new book by Vizard gives me some ideas and I will do some low cost basic hot rod tricks.  Installing a fuel/air mixture meter is the first task.  Accurate jetting, done on the salt if needed, will help me to corral a few ponies.

Lots of high powered research goes into this task.  I go down to Performance Racing and Engineering, our local auto speed shop.  I say "What fuel/air gauge will work on that Triumph?"  The owner sez "They are using the Innovative Performance gauges."  I say "Order me one."  The owner says "What do you want to look at?"  I say "I can't see all that good, and I am looking through a dark face shield while wearing sunglasses and riding a jackhammer."  He says, "We will order you a dial gauge."  The next day I hand him some money and he gives me this box full of all sorts of wires, a gauge, and other strange stuff.  I have is G2 Gauge / LC-1 Kit P/N 3801  See www.innovativemotorsports.com  These folks are very prompt at replying to technical questions when I e-mail them.

The first task is to install the oxygen sensor bung hole.  The supplied bung hole is steel and it has M18 x 1.5 threads.  My pipes are titanium and I cannot weld steel to ti.  The Arrow pipes have bung holes for the fuel injection system oxygen sensors.  I am not using them and they have M 12 x 1.25 threads.  Innovative makes a special bung hole adapter for motorcycle pipes.  It is Part # 3801 and it has M 12 x 1.25 threads.  I install it and the M 18 x 1.5 bung plug that is supplied with the kit.  The first photo shows the standard bung hole and plug on top and the special item below.  The second picture shows the setup in place.   

   

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 31, 2010, 01:01:13 AM
My wife's family has a saying "The little bird told me to do it" or "it was the bird on my shoulder talking."  No one seems to know exactly where these little sayings came from.  Their best guess is that sometime in Teutonic history a guy was about to get into big trouble.  A little bird flew down and gave him some advice.  The things the bird said saved his butt.

This week I had a bird on each shoulder.  One bird says "You need to unlock the horsepower in that engine.  Buy the carbs.  Use the credit card."  The other bird said "Don't spend the money.  You are broke for all intents and purposes.  Go slow and be happy.  You need to grow up and be responsible."  The birds chirped away and I could not make a decision.  I do not have any common sense on motorcycle matters.  I presented both sides of the issue to my wife.  She said, "Order the things and hurry up. You need to get them on the bike and working before Bonneville."  It did not take me very long to make a decision.

The 35 mm Keihin smooth bores were what I was going to order.  South Bay Triumph said the 39 mm Keihin flat slides would work better for my intended use.  I ordered a set with the billet manifolds and I sent South Bay some info about my engine.  They will prejet the carbs, as best as they can, for running at Bonneville.  These carbs are specially made for Hinckley Bonneville.  The standard throttle cables, air box, and throttle position sensor can be used.  This is more last minute work.             


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: charlie101 on July 31, 2010, 09:48:14 AM
Can I borrow your wife for a while? :-)


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 01, 2010, 01:02:01 AM
I think I will keep her for awhile. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on August 01, 2010, 10:36:06 PM
The 35 mm Keihin smooth bores were what I was going to order.  South Bay Triumph said the 39 mm Keihin flat slides would work better for my intended use.  I ordered a set with the billet manifolds and I sent South Bay some info about my engine.  They will prejet the carbs, as best as they can, for running at Bonneville.  These carbs are specially made for Hinckley Bonneville.  The standard throttle cables, air box, and throttle position sensor can be used.  This is more last minute work.             

I run the 39FCR's on my Ducati 750GT and My Guzzi 850 GT , I also used to run a single 39FCR on my Benelli Scooter and a pair on my 750 monster. Now if I have project and it needs a carby my choice is easy. Great carbs, easy to setup, and work really well.  Funny really, as I used to work fro the Australian Dellorto Importer
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 03, 2010, 01:22:14 AM
It is nice to hear that these carbs work good.  I am a bit nervous about them.  They might be too big.  They are 1 -1/2 inches diameter, just like the Clubman racing Gold Star carbs, and the Goldie has a big 500cc cylinder, as compared to my little 432cc jugs.  The Gold Star is can be a high strung and difficult bike to ride. 

Copper is an easy material to work and finish.  Lots of shapes are available at the plumber's supply, such as the tubes and end caps that I used to make these two gage housings.  One is the air fuel ratio gage and the other has a LED that tells me if the system is "on."   The button on the little gage is for system calibration.  The gages are low so they will fit inside the race fairing.

Some flat sheet was needed for the brackets and small gage face.  I heated a pipe section to red hot and dropped it into a bucket full of water.  This annealed it.  Then I slit the pipe lengthwise and flattened it out into a sheet.  The handlebar clamps are Drag Specialties DS-302020 Miller's Mirror Clamp for use on 1" OD Tubing.  These clamps are handy when anything needs to be mounted on 1 inch diameter handlebars.  The brackets are attached to the cases with copper rivets from a saddle maker's supply.  Zip ties near the gages clamp the wires to the bar.  This prevents the wires from being pulled out of the gages if the wires are tugged.

The dial gage is a complex instrument.  It has a stepper motor and lots of intricate lighting components.  Bike vibration destroys a lot of gages and I did not want this one to break.  It is rubber mounted so it will last a long time.

 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on August 03, 2010, 01:51:04 AM
It is nice to hear that these carbs work good.  I am a bit nervous about them.  They might be too big.  They are 1 -1/2 inches diameter, just like the Clubman racing Gold Star carbs, and the Goldie has a big 500cc cylinder, as compared to my little 432cc jugs.  The Gold Star is can be a high strung and difficult bike to ride. 

The Benelli was the best example.
It was 432 cc and as it is a scooter, has a centrifugal clutch. This meant that the carb had too work smoothly throughout the rev range
With a small amount of jetting it worked really well, and made a noticeable increase in HP. But it did come standard with a Bing.

I needed to make a gauge housing for my 750GT
While thinking about it , i was in a camping store, looking for a tent, and noticed a whole lot of different size and shape stainless steel cups.
I went back to the car, got the gauge,  back to the shop, tried it in a few different cups, and $5.00 later , really nice gauge housing.
The guy in the shop thought i was some kind of nut case. He was probably right
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 03, 2010, 02:02:36 AM
The guy in the shop thought i was some kind of nut case. He was probably right
G

....hey, he sounds like a smart guy,send me his number we'd probably get along.... :cheers: :-P

BTW Wobbly, that Benelli went like a bullet, I borrowed it once and the Colonel said, "keep both hands on the bars, no, I'm serious....keep both hands on the bars"....A young motocross gun at work laughed at me when I turned up at work on it, I made him ride it to the end of the driveway, he stopped laughing.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 07, 2010, 12:07:33 AM
So many, many things to do ... so little time!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on August 08, 2010, 12:31:08 AM
So many, many things to do ... so little time!

If it wasn't for the last minute, when would anything get done :cheers:
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 08, 2010, 10:42:26 AM
Usually I can avoid the last minute panic.  This is a time when I do not think and reason like I should.  Lately my battery is getting low and it will not start the engine.  I got all upset and was going to do some serious electrical diagnosis.  Triumph electrical parts are very expensive and I was worried.  Then I realized the loud racing pipes are on the bike and I keep the rpm low so I do not make noise and get people mad.  I was not spinning the engine fast enough to keep the battery charged.

Decades ago, I suffered through a few electrical engineering classes.  We built an intricate circuit in the lab and it took us civil engineering guys a week of afternoons to get it to work.  The entire mess of wires, resistors, and other goodies generated different electrical currents and impulses at various output nodes.  The professor OK'ed the circuit and then he said "put this little resistor in the circuit near the ground."  We did, and all of the circuit outputs were wrong.  The prof said something like "That simulates a bad ground.  Always make sure that everything is grounded OK.  Check the grounds first when things do not work."  He had us hook up the meters to the output terminals and then he moved a cord or wire around the circuit.  The cord carried electricity from an independent source and it did not touch the circuit.  The outputs changed.  Something was happening.  I am not sure what it was.  Since then, I always read the instructions very carefully for electronic stuff and I actually do everything they say.  Some of the minor things like grounding, component location on the vehicle, and cable routing seem to be pointless and optional, but they are very important.  There are a lot of instructions with this air / fuel mixture gage and I follow them.

The components share a common ground on the engine block.  Bike engines vibrate and the little wires from the components can fatigue and break at the junction where they connect to the ground lug.  I use a gold plated ground lug and some dielectric grease between the lug, bolt, and block.  This helps to minimize corrosion and the electrical resistance that it creates.  A short piece of copper mesh cable is installed between the little wires and the lug.  This cable flexes when the engine vibrates and it does not fatigue and break as quickly as a direct connection between the lug and the little wires.

Some of these materials are hard to find.  A dab of anti-flux on each side of the wire mesh keeps the solder from being absorbed throughout the entire cable.  The anti flux I use is from Allied Manufacturing in Bozeman, Montana www.alliedmfg.co  A good electronics solder is a big help.  The stuff I use is in the picture.  The mesh cable is Radio Shack desoldering cable.  Most of these goods are stocked in a model train and airplane shop. 
 

 



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 55chevr on August 08, 2010, 10:45:55 AM
I personally detest the "nick of time" struggle but seem to engage in it continuosly ...


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 08, 2010, 02:25:29 PM
It is raining in the garage.  A good time to finish the gage posts.

The picture shows the ground on the bike.  A short piece of shrink tubing helps to keep the little wires from flexing where they are soldered onto the mesh.  The sensor is installed and the wires are covered with fuel line insulation where they are close to the cylinders.  This keeps them cooler.

My general philosophy on lake racer wiring is to use the minimum number of connectors, and the connectors that I do use are protected from the salt.  The wires for all components meet under the seat.  The connectors I use are little gold plated soldered on bullet jobs from Great Planes www.electrify.com.  They are very expensive.  They work good and this justifies their cost, although I would like to find more reasonably priced equivalents.  I use a small amount of dialectric grease on the connections.

The wire color coding does not match on the Innovative Motorsports components.  Green wires connect to browns, etc.  I make little tags that remind me how to connect everything together.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 08, 2010, 02:44:34 PM
The last gage post.  The wires are connected and the connectors, tags, etc are stuffed in a plastic bag.  The whole nest is put in a can.  Can choice is important.  This is a British bike so the Prince Albert can is appropriate.  Albert must be English.  Our royalty is Lady GaGa.  It is important to loosely seal the electrics so they are protected from the salt and there is enough air circulation to prevent condensation.

The gages work.  One tells me the indicated fuel-air mixture and the other shows me that the system is in operation.  All gages are prone to problems just like other systems.  I do not rely on them entirely.  I also look at the traditional mixture indicators such as the soot color on the spark plugs and muffler ends, too.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 11, 2010, 12:40:05 AM
We are down to the short strokes now.  Things are coming together at the last minute.  The monster carbs will be here on Friday.  A recent thread discussed the damage caused by salt entering the intakes.  I thought that salt was not abrasive and the scoring and wear on my previous engine was due to grit passing through the oiled gauze filter.  I was wrong, it was salt damage.  It is time for air filtration.

Do I run pod filters or the filter in the airbox?  I used the pod filters in the past because they were easily removed when I wanted to put on the velocity stacks.  I do not need them now.  My experience with air filters on other engines tells me to do these four things.  1)  Use an air box to shield the element from road grit, major dust, water, etc.  2)  Use the biggest filter that is practical.  3)  Locate the filter away from the carb in an air box so it is not subject to pulsing airflow.  4)  Position the element so the filtering surface is vertical.  All of these increase performance and lengthen filter life.  No more pod filters.  I will use the filter in the box.

The air inside that fairing is hot when I race and that is where the standard intake is located.  Cooler air is denser and it will make me go faster.  I estimate the air inside the fairing is around 80 degrees and it is usually about 70 degrees outside.  A graph in Vizard's book on Page 12 tells me the colder air will give me a 1% torque increase.  That is not a lot but I have a severe need for more power.  Now it is time for a cold air intake.

The internal noise baffle is removed from the air box.  The aluminum filter bell mouth is from Norman Hyde in England.  I enlarge the opening 1/16 inch all of the way around.  This gives me 11 percent more opening area.  Now I go down to the plumbing supply and get a rubber adapter for connecting a 3-inch to 4-inch drain pipe.  I cut and file the adapter so it fits on the bellmouth.

I always pause in my projects and say "How can I make this extra safe so nothing falls off onto the salt."  Originally the rubber bell was going to stick out of the rear fairing.  There would be nothing to keep it in place if it came loose from the bell mouth.  I changed the design so that the fairing will keep the rubber bell in place.  The hole in the fairing is smaller than the bell hole.  The last step was to make some bars to keep my leathers from plugging the intake hole.     

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 14, 2010, 12:51:43 AM
My life is a routine now.  I come home from work, take a 15 minute nap, do my chores, eat dinner, and go out and work on the bike, truck, or trailer.  Usually the bike.  About 10:30 I put the tools away, take a shower, check out the Speedweek news, the roadsters, Australian shenanigans, Sumo and Lars latest, and go to bed.  A lesson from my experience.  Concentrate on the engine, only, during the year for big motor work.  Do all of the other stuff like the exhaust, intake, carbs, etc during the next year.

The carbs arrived today just like South Bay Triumph said they would.  Is this Pandora's Box?  It is late in the game and I am tempted to put them on the shelf until next year.  Then I figure that I will learn a lot by using them this year and I had better put them on.  The box has the carbs, intake manifolds, filters, and velocity stacks.  A pretty complete kit.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 14, 2010, 11:21:50 PM
Today I got up early and took the new carbs apart, recorded the jet sizes and needle positions, checked the float levels, and synchronized the slides.  They would not fit with the standard air box so I went back to the foam pod filters.  The bike started once and it runs OK.  I do not have the rear wheel on it so I ran it on the stand.

The bike occasionally starts.  Most of the time the engine turns over and nothing happens.  Eventually the battery goes flat.  Sometimes it backfires.  Twice it has backfired and blown the carbs off of the manifolds.  I cannot find a choke system.  These are Keihin FCR flatslide sidedraft carbs.  Does anyone have advice?   I am too tired to post a photo.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 15, 2010, 06:12:31 AM
  Is this Pandora's Box? 

The bike occasionally starts.  Most of the time the engine turns over and nothing happens.  Eventually the battery goes flat.  Sometimes it backfires.  Twice it has backfired and blown the carbs off of the manifolds.  I cannot find a choke system.  These are Keihin FCR flatslide sidedraft carbs.  Does anyone have advice?   I am too tired to post a photo.

No useful help from me, but thanks for a good solid laugh :-D We've all been there....


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Queeziryder on August 15, 2010, 07:44:51 AM
Today I got up early and took the new carbs apart, recorded the jet sizes and needle positions, checked the float levels, and synchronized the slides.  They would not fit with the standard air box so I went back to the foam pod filters.  The bike started once and it runs OK.  I do not have the rear wheel on it so I ran it on the stand.

The bike occasionally starts.  Most of the time the engine turns over and nothing happens.  Eventually the battery goes flat.  Sometimes it backfires.  Twice it has backfired and blown the carbs off of the manifolds.  I cannot find a choke system.  These are Keihin FCR flatslide sidedraft carbs.  Does anyone have advice?   I am too tired to post a photo.

High WW,
From memory the FCR flatslides do NOT have a choke facility, usually what you do (if their the sort with the accelerator pump) is to flick the throttle a couple of times to get some fuel into the system, then crank it over not touching the throttle until it catches, then hold it on a fast tick over until the engine is warm.

Hope this helps
Neil


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 55chevr on August 15, 2010, 11:34:42 AM
Been awhile since I played with Keihins but If these are CR-s there is no choke or enrichener circuit ... they are racing carburetors and do not need any stinking chokes ... pain in the Acura to start when temp is below 80 ... used to hold palm of hand over stacks to pull fuel in then blip the throttle continuously until engine developes heat ... make sure they are sinc'd or you will pull your hair out.  They will never idle.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 15, 2010, 06:16:45 PM
That 2 quick twists, hit the starter button, and do not open the throttle until the engine fires trick works!  Thanks for the info.  The lambda sensor says the mix is 10:1 at idle.  This thing will idle, sort of, after it is warm.  I remember some funky amal carb from my distant past with a remote float bowl.  On a gold star or a velocette, as I recall.  It would not let the engine idle and I held my hand over the bell mouth to keep the mixture rich for starting.  It took two people to start the bike.  To onlookers, it looked like I had my hand up the rider's arse when he kicked it over.  I was the new young guy and that was the types of jobs I did.

I typed "Keihin CRF hard starting" into a search engine and it appears that many other poor slobs are unfortunate enough to own these things.  This winter I will work out a sure fire way to make them work during a cold start.  Two of my friends from the Triumph club will be my pit crew this year.  We are going to find a roller starter somewhere.  That might help.

Anyone who knows how to put an enrichener or choke on these little heifers, please put on a post or send me a PM.       

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 55chevr on August 16, 2010, 05:25:07 AM
The CR Keihins are excellent high performance carburetors. They were designed for one purpose. Wide open throttle. Everything else is a compromise and wasnt part of the original intention. They are works of art to look at. When I ran them on a Z1 it was a rocket ship. Once you got it started.
Joe


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 16, 2010, 07:06:57 AM
Anyone who knows how to put an enrichener or choke on these little heifers, please put on a post or send me a PM.

get a lid( steel or plastic) that fits over the bellmouth ,cut a disc to fit on top of it , put a small bolt through the middle , cut holes either with a small hole saw or a nibbler....then you'll be able to twist the top to change the open area and give you a choke you can whip off.

five bucks.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: blackslax on August 16, 2010, 07:08:09 AM
The connectors I use are little gold plated soldered on bullet jobs from Great Planes www.electrify.com. 


Is this link correct? It opens to any empty page for me.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on August 16, 2010, 07:16:23 AM
It should be "electrifly.com".


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: blackslax on August 16, 2010, 07:34:39 AM
It should be "electrifly.com".

Thanks pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 17, 2010, 01:53:39 AM
The people who developed these carbs put a lot of work into adapting them to fit a Triumph and they gave me a good deal on them.  The folks at South Bay Triumph have helped me a lot for many years, their parts work good and they always arrive on time.  Honestly, we would not be racing if they did not help.  My negative comments in the last posts about the carbs are from a short tempered and tired guy.  I am actually fortunate to have them.

Tomorrow I will buy a new battery, clean all of the grounds including the coil ground, and verify that the charging system is working OK.  Then I will try the choke trick.  The blipping the throttle method does not always work.  Sometimes it fouls the plug with raw gas.

Thanks for the advice.  I have some time to get this figured out.  The carbs will stay on the bike if I can devise a way to start it.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 18, 2010, 12:53:13 AM
The carb problem was ignored while I worked on the rest of the bike.  The gearing was changed and the back end was taped up.  The fuel flow to the carbs was not good.  The fuel line was kinked and I did not see this.  The kink was hidden by the fireproof cover as shown in the photo.  I put a spring around the fuel line in the kinked area and then I slipped the fireproof cover back on.  It will not kink now.

I always do a quick check of the ignition and charging systems if I have carburetor issues.  This sounds goofy, but experience is the best teacher.  I cleaned the engine ground and the ignition coil ground.  Then I wiped the coil off with a rag so it was clean on the outside and I cleaned the terminals and connectors.  Then I cleaned the fuse terminals and checked the charging system.  Some terminals were corroded.  The Honda shop load tested the battery and said it was good.  I cleaned the solenoid connections and the lug where the starter cable connects onto the starter motor.  Then I cleaned the two bolts that ground the starter motor to the engine block.

The engine started up instantly when I made the charging current test.  I took off the ammeter and it started perfectly again.  The temptation for a short blast around the neighborhood was too tempting.  It was getting dark, the bike is geared for Bonneville, and it has no lights or front brake.  I could not get up to speed but everything feels good.  Life is looking good for the Walrus right now.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Graham in Aus on August 18, 2010, 04:29:24 AM
Hi Wobbly! I'm a real fan of your meticulous analysis of all things mechanical and internal combustion, love the notes and calculations you produce.

So do you think the Carb issue was all down to the kinked fuel line? I for one am pleased things are looking good again! Of course you do realise the problems started when your partner 'pushed the envelope' and 'OK'd' the carb purchase!  :wink:


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 20, 2010, 01:29:39 AM
I wish that I knew what I am doing.  The verdict is still out on the carbs.  A bad ground and maybe the kinked line caused trouble.  The bike starts four out of five times now and I am still working on the problem.  These are very good racing carbs if the starting problem is overlooked.  I do not want to give up on them.  These carb issues are minor compared to the tire problems at Speedweek.  Those shredded racing tires are scary.  I sure hope the experts figure out a solution.

The flatslides came with #135 Keihin hex main jets.  I want to have more jets in different sizes so I can rejet as needed on the salt.  I bought a pairs of 128's, 130's, 132's, 138's, 140's and 142's.  The local Honda shop sold me these.  They pulled them out of a plastic box with little compartments just like almost any other bike dealer in America. 

I laid the jets out in pairs in order from smallest to biggest.  Then I got out some saddlemaker's needles.  All sewing shops have some big needles like these.  I slid the jets onto the needle and used my thumb as an indicator of how far up the needle that they slid.  Bigger jets slide further up the needle.

Genuine Keihin jets have a little "K" next to the number and the number is marked on the side.  A pair of these jets had "128" stamped on the ends and no "K."  They slid up the needle farther than the Keihin 130's.  Obviously, they were too big.  They went into the reject pile.  Two jets said "AB142" and they had no "K"s.  They seemed to be the right size.  They slid farther up the needle than the Keihin 140's.  I put them in the good pile.  One jet marked "140RD" slid up the needle as far as a Keihin #142.  It was too big.  Another jet marked "130" was one size too small.  The rejects are shown in the bottom of a photo and the good jets on the top.  This trick was showed to me by a tuner years ago. 



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 55chevr on August 20, 2010, 04:41:10 AM
Have you considered rollers ... they make it a lot easier to start cantankerous bikes ... Joe


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 21, 2010, 01:14:55 AM
Joe, it starts every time now.  I learned the special secret procedure.  Now I can leave it parked with the key in it.  No one except me can start it.  I am going to learn about roller starters at the BUB meet.  Maybe Harbor Freight has one that I can afford.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Bruin on August 24, 2010, 10:55:09 PM
Nice tip with the needle for checking no-name jets. I've run into the same thing with K vs non-K jets. They are rare as hens teeth in our understocked bike shops so STD might have to make doo with some itty bitty drill bits. See ya at BUB.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 25, 2010, 01:26:54 AM
Bruin, we learned the same thing.  The original equipment Keihin jets are the right sizes.  It is the pattern jets made by others that are off.

These folks send me genuine jets with very quick shipment:  PJ Motorsports at PJMOTORSPORTS.com 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 27, 2010, 11:24:55 PM
A few final finishing touches.  I grabbed one trailer wheel and shook it to check for bearing play.  The wheel moved a lot.  One of the U bolts holding the axle to the leaf spring corroded and broke.  Salt termites at work.  It was late and only the hardware store was open.  I bought some rod and made a new u-bolt.  I am very glad that I found this problem in the driveway and not on the way to B-Ville.  Rosie gave me a navy hair cut and beard trim.  Plenty short.  This makes it more comfortable out on the salt.  A couple of braces make the Triumph front fender a lot stronger.  They were added after reading about JimL's experiences at Speedweek.  All done and time for bed.  As Bob Dylan says, "The Titanic sails at dawn."



   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: JimL on August 28, 2010, 12:07:48 AM
Useful learning from KentR today....my handling issue appears to be several things combined.  He gave me some good ideas, and the gist of it is:
1.  Fender needs to be kept off the tire.
2.  Taking out the front engine, and NOT adding ballast up front, lightens up the front end a lot.  This means my rake doesn't really work (making the bike very susceptible to the fender effect).
3.  That front-rear balance issue matters more with the large side area of the fairing (center of pressure is well ahead of the center of mass).  This also makes the bike less stable.

I should have seen this coming, but mistakes are my stock in trade.  Doing the big "hurry up" to get to the salt left me with a compromised ride.  I'll be moving the engine forward, and another battery and water tank as well.  I'm making more heat, per run, than expected.  I'm also taking one battery down pretty hard (those dual SPAL fans can pop a 20A fuse at switch on!)

Have a great ride and keep us posted when you can!
JimL


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 06, 2010, 12:57:57 PM
Last night we got home.  The lawn sprinkler is under the truck.  The BUB staff and volunteers ran a great meet.  My youngest daughter, Gretchen, and me had an enjoyable time.  Definitely, we will be back in 2011.

The fancy lambda meter quit working and I do not know how to read the plugs when I use the racing gas.  Matt Capri was there and I asked him if the #135 main jets that he installed were right for the conditions.  He said that the big NA motors run #140 and #145 jets and the #135's should work fine in my little engine, and if they were off, they would be a little bit rich.  He said "Don't worry.  Just ride it."  He was right.  The jetting was perfect.

My usual method is to run down the middle of the track.  I did this on Tuesday morning on the down and it worked OK up till about 120mph.  Then the bike snaked around.  The front wheel was hunting when it jumped in and out of ruts and the back tire was spinning bad.  There was very little traction.  I kept the throttle on the stop until I thought I was going to crash and then I backed off a bit.  Then I pinned it again.  I went through this procedure a few times.  It was one of the best moments in my life when I got through the traps.  The down was 126+.

It was time to do my annual thinking.  Another run in that goop might be my last.  There was a side wind that morning and almost everybody avoided the downwind track edge.  The good salt would be there, I hoped.  The wind had died down.  It was my lucky day.  I ran the back on the track edge just inside of the markers.  The salt was nice and Bonnie ran straight and hard.  It was a good run.  The back was 129+.

This is the first year for the new motor and it is slightly faster than the old one was after years of fiddling and tuning.  The 130 mph barrier was not crossed.  Maybe next year.

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 07, 2010, 10:35:51 AM
Land speed racing is in many ways the ultimate test of a builder's ability.  The adverse atmospheric and ground conditions, the remoteness of the speedways, the long distances to be traveled at full throttle- all make it very difficult.  Lars and his Indian Scout had an especially challenging time.  This is his first year on the salt and conditions are completely opposite those of his native Denmark.

Lars had his share of challenges, such as head gasket durability.  He overcame all of this and he made a successful run through the mile.  The bike is fast, it ran in the mid 80's as I recall.  This is much quicker than a standard Scout.  He has done a very good job.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 09, 2010, 12:08:33 AM
Meeting new people is a great thing about land speed racing.  These two fellows are Dave on the left and Louie on the right.  They came down from BC in a ratty old van.  Their bike was this 400 cc Yamaha twin with the Burt Munro handlebars.  Their pit was next to ours.  Their objective was to learn everything they could about LSR.  They got six runs on the little Yamaha before it gave up and broke.  Dave did the riding and Louie was the wrench.  Louie said he will definitely be back next year with his own bike.  Nice people.

A couple of young guys thrashing an innocent little Jap twin.  Sorta like most of us a long time ago.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 09, 2010, 07:19:13 PM
This cute older couple owns a Vincent.  The Vincent owners are unique to motorcycling - it is their commitment to their bikes.  The motorcycles seem to return this affection with good service.  One fellow I talked to a few years ago had his Vincent in his minivan.  He put 400,000 miles on the bike over the years.  Another bloke was my age and he had his Vincent since his teens.  He modified the bike as he went through the phases of his life.  The psychedelic paint job in the 70's, etc.  Some of the bikes have names and are part of the families.  Many are not sold.  Instead, they are passed on through the generations.  These folks are very interesting to talk to if one gets the chance.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on September 10, 2010, 10:30:27 PM
That sounds like Terry Prince with the sidecar
Had his Vincent since his teens
Still has the same leathers! that still fit!
Really clever guy and a really nice guy to talk to as well

I've still got the CB1100 I bought when I was in my twenties, not quite the same thing
And my younger brother recently gave me back the jacket my gave me when I turned 17
I can't even get my arms in it
G



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 11, 2010, 01:08:36 AM
My old leathers are too small, too.  It is strange how cowhide shrinks.  The guy I talked to that had the bike forever was not Terry and he had a solo.  I wish I could remember his name.  A red Rapide will go on auction soon in Las vegas.  The auctioneer's estimates are US$80,000 to US$100,000, as I remember.  The Rapide is the basic model Vincent.  That is serious money for an old bike.

It was my first day of my rookie year.  Everything was going wrong.  Speed wobbles, etc.  I was a scared little puppy.  Golf was looking good.  That night while I sat near the campfire a racer asked me how I was doing.  I told him what was happening.  He carefully explained to me what to do so things would work.  The next day he watched me and gave me more help.  That fellow is Curtis in the photo with his Buell Blast.

Most of us like to race.  Curtis lives to ride at Bonneville.  He has some health issues and his love of the salt keeps him alive.  Every year he shows up to ride in the Run-Watcha-Brung class with his NOS powered Blast.  He goes faster every year in his quest for 100 mph.  Now he is up to 94 mph.  That is as fast as it will go this year, according to Curtis.  He hopes to make it quicker during the off-season.  Almost everyone goes faster than Curtis, but few have more fun. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 12, 2010, 10:28:17 PM
Motorcycle racers generally fall into three categories.  One bunch has lots of talent and luck.  They can do something for the first time and everything goes great.  Another group has lots of time or money and fewer skills.  They can get good results from trial and error.  The remainder do not have the funds or hours for trial and error and they are not rocket scientists.  They need professional help.

I am one of those who cannot do it alone.  When I started land speed racing it was many years since I built bikes and engines.  The internet was new and wonderful.  Computers were not around earlier.  I could order all sorts of things with a few mouse clicks.  I did this and a lot of the things I ordered worked OK.  Some very expensive things did not.  This bothered me.  This LSR is serious business and inferior parts and assembly could cost me a record, injure me, or worse.  It was time to use the old fashion method.  I needed to find a speed shop that did LSR.

The gentleman in the photo is Matt Capri, the owner of South Bay Triumph in Lomita, California.  He developed most of the engine parts that I use.  He helps me a lot, and of course, I pay him for the parts and work.  This is his business.  The motorcycle to the right is the Turbo  Bike.  It is a Bonneville just like mine that runs a blower.  Matt and the bike hold several records and the engine has about 100 hours on it of racing and dyno testing.  There are all sorts of Turbo Bike developed parts on my cycle, especially in the lower end.  As I figure, if the Matt cannot break them on the Turbo Bike, I cannot break them, either.

The folks around us in these meets are all special in their own ways and they make our experiences richer and fuller.  These people have done this for me. 





Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 13, 2010, 10:53:52 PM
The Bonneville is back on the road in street trim.  It is time to enjoy these last few dry days before the rains.  A nice ride in the hill country after work.  Life is good.

Modern finances allow a person to go beyond broke and this will be a Burt Munro year.  Maximum speed with minimal financial is the theme.  The streamlining will be streamlined, the intake and exhaust systems will be tuned to the cams, and the black box will be reprogrammed to give more spark advance. A new helmet, too, to meet the 2010 certifications.  That is all.  Most of this I can do myself.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on September 14, 2010, 12:25:32 AM
Matt Capri, used my welding equipment 2 times to weld his header pipe..........both times I did NOT get even a
"thank you for the use of your welder".........................................................................................

Not a problem.......just remember Matt to bring your own welding equipment.......because mine will not be available to you... 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 14, 2010, 11:32:15 PM
The bike would barely run with baffles in the Arrow pipes and the original equipment Keihin CV carbs.  The lambda meter would read very rich and raw gasoline would drip from the air filters.  I figured that pressure waves were bouncing off of the baffles and they were going backwards through the exhaust system and they were blowing the fuel air mixture back out through the carbs.  This would be reversion.

I took off the stock manifolds when I installed the Keihin flat slides.  South Bay makes billet manifolds for the big carbs.  I looked at the intake valves and they were shiny silvery bare metal.  There were no carbon stains from reversion.

The bike in the photo is running great on the street with the flatslides and baffles in the Arrow pipes.  The idle is a bit rich.  I need to have it this way so it will start.  There is no choke or enrichener.  No signs of reversion.  The baffles do not adversely affect these carbs.  The reasons for this are a mystery to me.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 16, 2010, 01:10:42 AM
Photographs can tell us how we can improve.  I need to tuck down lower as seen in this photo by Ray the Rat.  I like to look through the windshield with an occasional peek over the top to make sure I am on course.  The first project for the off season will be to lower the windshield.  This will allow me to tuck down lower.  Both drag coefficient and frontal area will be reduced.  This will help the aerodynamics.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 23, 2010, 11:11:46 PM
Hammer and torch work on sheet metal is occupying me now.  Nothing interesting enough to post.  Some thoughts about what I have done.

Decades ago I was a line mechanic in a bike shop.  The guys in this place did some dirt track racing and they occasionally would build a frame, swingarm, etc.  People did this in those days.  They had a frame with plates to mount the engine.  They could put different engines in the bike and they could move the engine forwards or backwards.  Plates were welded on the frame for the swingarm pivot.  They could position the pivot in different locations.  The upper and lower shock mounts were done the same way.  Lots of holes.  They could move the shocks around to find the best settings.

These fellows had this ugly bike and a nice race bike.  They tested things on the ugly bike in the local races and they figured out the best settings for the race bike.  The nice bike was raced in more significant events.  I never went to the races with them.  They were building the rapid transit system behind the shop and there was a long stretch of vacant land.  There were hard packed "grooves" and soft "cushions" on the dirt trails across this property.  I learned a lot by listening to them and riding around there.  I should have spent more time with them.

One big lesson I learned was the ability to move the engine in the frame is a good thing.  A forward mounted engine works best when the surface is hard and traction is good.  The added weight keeps the front wheel down and it gives more control during acceleration.  In dirt track a person wants to spin the tire a bit and the forward engine position lightens up the rear.  This is a help when traction is good.  The opposite occurs when things are softer and slippery.  A lighter front end tends to track better and to not knife into the surface and the added weight on the back gives more traction.  The engine moved to the rear helps in these conditions.  Moving the footpegs can make a difference, too.

The Triumph can be a handful on soft salt like we had in the middle of the track this year and in 2007.  The streamlining adds weight to the front and there is that skinny 19-inch diameter front tire.  It tends to knife into the soft stuff and follow ruts.  Also, there was some rear tire spinning this year.  I have a hard time believing this.  The bike has only 75 horsepower, but it did spin the tire on the down run this year.

There are things I have been doing, and changes I will be making, to cure the problem.  I need to get the weight distribution rearward.  Unfortunately, I cannot move the engine.  The engine is an integral part of the frame like a Vincent, and it will always be where it has always been.  Someday, if I build a frame for this engine, I will make sure to have some adjustability in how I locate the motor.  I will set it forward when I run naked and back when I run with the armor.  This will keep the center of gravity where it should be.     



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 26, 2010, 02:00:40 PM
The last post talked about the ability to adjust things.  This is useful when a person does not get everything positioned right the first time, the track conditions demand a different setup, or the vehicle will be run in different configurations, i.e. partially streamlined or naked.

These Triumphs are heavy bikes with short wheelbase and little steering trail.  This gives them the quick handling on the street that modern riders desire.  This is not good for LSR.  The streamlining adds some forward weight and handling at speed is snakey and touchy.  A fellow is either just short of a speed wobble or in one.  I had two choices based on my 2007 experiences.  Either bring several changes of underwear or fix the handling.

A fellow who knows from experience tells me the swing arm needs to be lengthened 3 inches to calm things down and to prevent a weave at speeds of 150 mph or more.  He runs a naked bike and he has less weight on the front wheel than me.  A longer swing arm will put more weight on the front wheel and I do not want to fix one problem and make another worse.  I decide to lengthen the swing arm 1.5 inches.  This will be a compromise that will help stability and not add a lot of weight to the front wheel.

The Triumph swing arm has forgings on the ends with the shock mounts and chain adjusters.  I do not know how to extend the adjustment slots on the forgings.  I buy a used swing arm and take it to the machine shop and they add sections to the middle of the chain gaurd and swing arm.  I buy a longer chain and brake line and custom made longer shocks.  IKON in Australia made the shocks.

Now I am ready to go.  I have a long wheel base setup and that is the way I build it before I leave.  It will give me better handling at high speeds.  The disadvantage is less weight on the back wheel.  This should not be a problem.  High speeds are obtained on hard salt and traction is no problem for a low power guy like me.  I also have the shorter standard shocks, swing arm, chain, etc. in the truck.  I can change back to these if the salt is soft and slippery and I need more weight on the back wheel.  The short stuff is carefully packed in a box and put in my truck.

A brilliant plan, except for one thing.  There is the big thrash before leaving, the packing, all of the driving, etc.  I get to the salt and I get the pre-run logistics done.  There are children with me and they require attention.  I am slightly tired and fried.  The last thing I want to do is work on the bike.  Racing and socializing with folks I have been away from for a year, meeting people, and watching everything that happens, this is what I want to do.  No short arm installation even though it will help me go faster.  I run whats I bring.

In hindsight, it would be best if I had a custom swing arm built with long adjusting slots.  I could easily play around with different wheelbase settings while I was on the salt.  Simply moving the wheel and changing the chain.  No big deal.  Easy adjustments are the ones that are done in the field.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Queeziryder on September 26, 2010, 02:21:54 PM
Hi WW,
A friend of mine running a street based drag bike had adjusters which when flipped, meant he could go from 1.5" under to 8" over stock.
It was fabricated by a Co on the UK called NWS, now back under the Harris Bro's wings (they make chassis for MotoGP WSB etc)

If I can find a decent pic or two I'll send them over to you...

Neil


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 01, 2010, 12:29:46 AM
Thanks for the adjuster info.  Some pix would be help me.     

Steering trail gives a bike stability and my bike did not have enough.  The front suspension would compress during the shutdown and the rake angle would steepen.  This reduced the trail and it was speed wobble time.  There were several things I did to reduce this tendency.  One was to lighten the fairing and the front end of the bike and to install heavier fork springs.  This reduced the dive and the fork angle change.  A radial front tire, more sag in the rear suspension, and a gentle shutdown helped, too.  All of these made things better but I needed to do more.  The fork triple clamps were real flexy.  Stronger triple clamps seemed like a good idea.

I ordered a set of triple clamps off of the internet.  They were Harley flattracker clamps adapted to fit a Triumph.  They looked good in the internet picture and in my imagination, until I opened up the box.  They were weak.  Far too weak for LSR.  I was putting them back in the box before sending them back and I hesitated.  These clamps had inserts that I could replace to adjust the steering trail.  The clamps could teach me something.  I could use them to find the correct trail to wheelbase ratio for stability.  Sure, it would cost me a lot of money.  The bike was scaring me badly and spending a grand or more to figure out a solution was money I had to spend.  My racing program could not move ahead unless the bike was stable.

It was a lot of work, those clamps.  I had to remake the steering stem so it was strong enough.  Then I had to make stops so the fork tubes would not dent the tank.  What a pain in the donkey.  I ordered inserts to set the fork tube offset at three 7 mm increments.  The bike was so twitchy it was almost impossible to ride over 45 mph with the tubes at maximum offset.  The bike handled quick like a road racer with the offset in the middle setting.  Things were stable with minimum offset.  An eight percent trail to wheelbase ratio was perfect.  I gave the clamps to a friend with a sidecar.  They would help him.  I calculated the offset I would need to get eight percent with the longer swingarm and I made a set of nice solid aluminum clamps.  Problem solved.

The message in all of this?  Sometimes it is necessary to go through an intermediate step between where a person is and where they want to be.  Often parts are bought and made that will not be on the final product.  None of us like to do this and it seems like effort and money wasted.  It is the cost of business when a person develops and builds their own stuff. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 02, 2010, 01:06:11 AM
The Triumph ran 126.284 down and 129.504 back this year.  This is with the new motor build, soft salt, and I was not riding at my best.  Last year the bike ran 127.143 down and 123.490 back with the old motor build, hard salt, and me riding as good as I ever do.  The new engine is slightly better and I need to work on it so it will go as fast as it can.

The first step is to determine where I am with mixture, torque, and power.  This information will help me make informed decisions and a trip to the dyno is in order.  The bike is prepared.  Parts are swapped and adjusted so the chain, sprockets, tire and tire pressure are the same as those used in the previous dyno run.  The tank is filled with fresh unleaded non-ethanol premium.  This is my reference gas.  I always use the same type , brand, and gasoline station for the dyno work fuel.  All of this "sameness" helps me to evaluate the items that are different between the new and old setups.  The changes are the carbs and filters.  The old setup was the new engine build with original eqiupment Keihin 36 mm CV carbs and short velocity stacks.  The new setup is the same except the carbs are Keihin 39 mm flatslides with foam uni-filters.

Mixture is looked at first.  The bike is hooked up to the dyno and the first pull is made.  This is the blue mixture curve on the attached.  The mixture curve starts at the lower right corner at about 10.2 to 1.  This is very rich and the mixture is fat so the bike will start with a cold engine.  There is no choke or enricher circuit on these racing carbs.  There is funkiness in the curve between idle and 5,000 rpm.  I see this and I ask for two more pulls.  The 2nd pull is the red line and the third is the green line.  The scatter among the curves below 5,000 rpm tells me that the accelerator pump is confusing matters.  Above 5,000 rpm the pump has less influence and the curves are very consistent and close to each other.

These three curves give me the info I need to start jetting the carbs.  The typical quick dyno pulls do not work all that well for telling me the mixture below 5,000 rpm.  I will ride the bike with the lambda meter in operation and I will use the mixture gauge to set the jetting below 5,000 rpm.  The mixture will be set for street use.  This will not hurt me when I am on the salt.  I do not ride at lower rpm and smaller throttle settings at B'ville.  The mixture above 5,000 rpm will be set using the dyno.  The bike is really moving at full throttle above 5,000 rpm and I should not look down on a silly little gauge.  I need to watch where I am going.  The mixture above 5,000 rpm will be set for Bonneville.  This will be no problem on the street.  I do not use full throttle and high rpm on the road.

The next post will address setting the mixture for Bonneville.



 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on October 02, 2010, 01:56:41 AM
If I were to pick a fuel for running a baseline, the last thing I would use would be a pump gasoline. While the fuel in the pump may meet the octane rating on the label anything else may be varied depending on the season, what components were available at the time to make the blend, and what components were available to allow the greatest profit margin for the producer. This does not lead to an accurate baseline.

On the other hand racing blends are made consistently from the same components so that you have a truly accurate base line to work from. Racing gas does not have to be made to allow for seasonal variations and the price is high enough that they can use the same components consistently from batch to batch.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 05, 2010, 12:30:29 AM
You are right, Peter.  I get by with pump gas because I have a mildly tuned engine and it is amazingly tolerant of fuel quality.  A true high performance engine is less tolerant and race gas is the correct thing to use.  This post is modified to recommend race gas instead of pump.  This is how I use reference gasoline and a dyno to tune the mixture for Bonneville.

Step 1)  The bike is filled with reference gas and put on a dyno.  A good fresh racing gas is best.  Always us the same type.  In my case the dyno is at elevation 150 feet, more or less.  Bonneville is at a much higher elevation and a lean mixture near sea level will be a richer mixture on the salt.  I make a good guess based on the altitude difference and assuming the racing gas has a higher oxygen content than the pump gas I am using.  The mixture is set at 13.5 to 1.  See 2007 curve on attached.

Step 2)  The bike is run on the salt.  I check some mixture indicators.  There are many and my preferences are the exhaust header pipe color, piston crown color, and how the engine sounds and feels under acceleration and at full throttle.  In this case the pipes are blue four to six inches beyond the header clamps, the pistons are a nice nipple brown, there is no misfiring, and the bike runs clean.

Step 3)  The mixture is adjusted as needed on the salt to get it right.  I did not need to do this.

Step 4)  The bike is filled with reference gas and put on the dyno.  The mixture is recorded.  The mixture trace from Step 1, if the initial guess is right, or the mixture trace from Step 4, if the mixture was adjusted on the salt, is the basis for the target mixture.

Step 5)  The engine parts are examined during tear down to make sure these mixture assumptions are correct.

The head was ported in 2008 and larger intake valves were installed.  Before we left for the salt, the bike was filled with reference gas, put on a dyno, and the mixture set as close as possible to 13.5 to 1.  About 14 to 1 was the best we could do.  See the 2008 curve on the attached.  The bike ran great and the indicators showed a good mixture.  Based on this, I reset the target mixture at 14 to 1.

This year I set the mixture at 14 to 1 on the dyno with the new build and the old CV carbs.  Then I switched to flat slide carbs, guessed at the jetting, and ran the bike on the salt.  It ran OK, but the pipes showed more color than I like and the engine did not pull hard.  The bike was filled with reference gas when we got home and it was put on a dyno.  The mixture trace shows that the mixture was lean.  See the 2010 curve.  In hindsight, before I left for the salt I should have filled the tank with reference gas, put the bike on a dyno, and set the mixture to my 14 to 1 target.  It is likely I would have had a richer mixture and few more horsepower if I would have done this.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 09, 2010, 05:00:23 PM
Qualitative test results give us a picture of trends and cause and effect.  "Changes in quality" are the keywords.  In other words, if "A" is changed this happens to "B."  Quantitative tests show us changes in quality just like qualitative tests.  They also give us accurate measurements, too.  "Changes in quality and quantity" are keywords.  Quantitative tests are more rigorous than qualitative tests, as a general rule.  They are also more expensive.

This dyno session is a low budget quicky and all I want to do is get some rough quantitative results and qualitative trends.  This will help me determine what happened during my last visit to the salt and the best things to do this winter.

The mixture trace is shown in the previous post. It is a lean mix for the street with pump gas and it likely was also a lean mix at Bonneville with the MULB unleaded.  It cost me some mph and it did not hurt the engine.  I look at the pistons crowns and everything seems to be OK.  One size bigger main jets will be installed to richen up the mixture.

The bike is set up with the same rear tire, tire pressure, chain, and sprockets as during the previous 15 July dyno test.  The gasoline is from the same pump at the same station.  This gasoline might not be exactly the same as the gas I used previously.  In the future I will use racing gas for the dyno tests.  It is more consistent in quality and the results of the different dyno sessions can be better compared with each other.

Two torque curves are shown on the attached.  One is for the original constant velocity carbs with open velocity stacks and a fuel mixture that varied from 14:1 to 15:1.  This is my old setup.  The other curve is for the new flatslides with lightly oiled foam pod filters and a mixture that varied from 14.5:1 to 16:1.  The mixture got leaner as the rpm's rose.  This is my new setup.  Note that there are two significant variables here that can affect torque - carb setup and mixture.  This can be no better than a qualitative comparison because of this.

A quanitative comparison can be attempted.  The flatslides will need to be rejetted to have a fuel air ratio similar to the CVK's.  This will reduce the comparison to one significant variable.  This more accurate test will tell me how much better the flatslides are.

The qualitative results are all I need and my budget can afford.  They tell me the flatslides are not costing me power. They also show me that I need to move the torque peak higher on the rpm scale.  The torque characteristics are great for the street.  They are not optimal for LSR and I need to do more work.. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 11, 2010, 12:00:14 AM
The last task in the dyno session is to take off the pod filters and to put on short velocity stacks.  The stacks bias the torque curve to higher rpm as seen in the attached.  This happened with the old 790cc build, too.  The bike produces 74 horsepower during this pull.  This is the most it has ever made.  Some richer jetting will give it a few more ponies.

The pulls with the pod filters and the stacks are done one after another.  The only change is unbolting one component and bolting on another.  There is only one variable.  This give me a quantitative comparison.

This is one of the leanest years we have had in a long time, budget wise.  Cheapest modifications come first.  A little plenum chamber will be made to house the open stacks with the air filters attached to the plenum.  Some reverse cone meggas will be made to bias the power curve further toward the higher engine speeds.  Cost is negligible.  There is all sorts of sheet metal around here.

There is a chance the horsepower cannot be significantly increased by stacks and pipes.  Some bigger valves are needed if this occurs.

   

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 14, 2010, 10:35:17 PM
Is there a difference in the amount of volatiles in typical winter and summer blend gasolines?  The volatiles that I am talking about help the engine to start from cold without fouling the plug.  Is there anything to add to gasoline to aid in winter starting?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 1212FBGS on October 15, 2010, 12:21:33 AM
yes there is...... and the fuel can change from week to week.....  you should really stop tuning on inconsistent pump fuels.... it has fuel injection cleaners and all kinds of useless crap.... start using ERC.... call Rick and get him to send ya some..... Oh, target yer AF around 13.2, slow revving 4strokes like it around there
Kent


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 15, 2010, 11:02:31 PM
Thanks, Kent.  You are absolutely correct if this was a race bike.  This is my transportation and I am trying to keep the flatslides on it through the winter so I can build a plenum chamber and megaphones.  Race gas was used for racing, only, in the past.  Now I will use it for the dyno tuning and racing.  Pump gas is what I use on the street.  Cost and convenience make it a good choice. 

Last week I got a bad batch of gas.  This would be no problem with the standard carbs but the bike is hard to start with the flatslides.  Occasionally I foul the plugs before the engine starts.  I am wondering if this bad gas is an isolated incident or if it is typical of a winter blend.  In Oregon we do have winter blends.  Some law makes this a reality.  Also, I am looking for a way to increase the volatiles if I get a really bad tank of gas.

Lack of flammability is the issue.  Octane, or lack of, is no problem.  This bike will not "ping" on the lousiest gasoline I can find, even with the high compression pistons.  Any help is appreciated.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Queeziryder on October 16, 2010, 01:07:05 PM
Hi WW,
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you :-(
Firstly I can't find any decent pic's of the swing arm conversion on my friends bike, but I will try to do you a sketch, and if you PM me, I'll send it by email...
Secondly if you can get it in the US, you can possibly add Tetra Ethyl Lead (TEL) to your unleaded to bring it back to a high octane leaded fuel, this is what we do occaisonally to one of my dads bike which is a hot Norton single running 12:1 on the road.

HTH
Neil


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: charlie101 on October 16, 2010, 09:36:28 PM
Well, I have antisocial behaviour issues in spades and am a little bit challenged on the IQ scale :?, so I haven't got that much to spare for handling the highly toxic TEL concentrates myself as it seems a source for diminishing IQ. (read the TOXIC chapter here) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead
And I don't even care about children! On the other hand, I wouldn't know where to aquire a jar of that as it isn't for sale or the amount that is needed for bumping a specific octane a certain level, blast, I'm not certain if TEL is the only additive that is needed for that task.
The additives that is commonly available, in my neighburhoods anyway, and that I put in my gas is either sodium or natrium salts. And from what I belive, those doesn't do squat for bumping any octanes but down perhaps. Well, maybe the salts absorb some heat (slowly). Anyhow, I need my additive to prevent micro welding of valve and valve seats and ping I have to manage with comb.area shape and timing cam and spark. Turbo or blower engines regulary run high effective compression on lead free.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 16, 2010, 11:58:56 PM
My problem is the exact opposite.  I do not need more octane.  The gasoline ethanol blends we have here are sometimes hard to ignite in cold weather unless the mixture ratio is just right.  The Keihin flatslides do not have an enricher circuit.  I flood the carbs with a twist of the throttle, using the accelerator pump, then I start the engine.  Nine out of ten time this works.  The time when it does not is a pain.  I am trying to find an additive that will increase the light ends in the gasahol and make it easier to ignite in cold weather.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: charlie101 on October 17, 2010, 12:58:24 AM
From what I read, the companys use aceton to get the alcohol more volatile, maybe they need to accumulate some more profit before they can put enough of that in, or the gas is from last years winter season and have evaporated the good kick starting stuff? There's always a good whiff of ether, that can get almost any cranky jalopy as yours going. :-D


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 17, 2010, 11:01:22 PM
Thanks, Charlie.  I have a gallon of acetone laying around after a recent painting project.  Now I have a use for it.  A couple of ounces of acetone per tankful is not much of a quantity and the gallon should last me all winter.

There are some stations here that pump premium grade unleaded non-ethanol gas into street vehicles.  I just learned about this.  Now I need to find one of these stations for my winter fuel.  The premium gas costs a bit more but I also get better mileage.  The added cost is not that great because of this.

It looks like I have a couple of solutions to my problem.  Life is good.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on October 18, 2010, 02:38:36 AM
Secondly if you can get it in the US, you can possibly add Tetra Ethyl Lead (TEL) to your unleaded to bring it back to a high octane leaded fuel, this is what we do occaisonally to one of my dads bike which is a hot Norton single running 12:1 on the road.
HTH
Neil

I've got a tin, yes tin, of TEL here somewhere. It's as heavy as ....
I'm not sure how I would go trying to post it
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 18, 2010, 11:25:18 PM
Thanks for the offer, Grumm.  Things around this household are goofy enough now.  Mild lead fume induced brain damage is the last thing we need.

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 26, 2010, 12:22:15 AM
The climate data from www.airdensityonline.com is intriguing.  I am using it to calculate at Bonneville vs standard condition SAE dyno horsepower with free on-line calculators.  I am a lazy and cheap bastid.  Typical input is ambient or absolute pressure, temperature, relative humidity, and altitude.  I always enter the ambient (uncorrected) pressure in the calculators that ask for altitude.  I enter the absolute (corrected) values in the calculators that do not ask for altitude.

Unfortunately, the answers these calculators give are conflicting and sometimes goofy.  Does anyone have an on-line calculator they trust?  Better yet, does anyone have the crazy old style paper charts.  Can I get copies? 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on October 26, 2010, 09:00:38 PM
Wobbly,
The “crazy old-style paper chart” is more often called a “psychrometric chart” and you will find a plethora of information on the web if you Google it.  An actual paper one is often featured in the back of thermodynamics text books, so you may want to drop by a local college used book store and take a look.  Finding one will, however, be easier than using it!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 27, 2010, 12:31:19 AM
Thanks, I will find one.  I hope I can remember how to use it.  My goal is to do some quick checks to verify the on-line calculator I use is reasonable.

Years ago the AMA put minimum weight limits on motocross bikes.  One day I was at a race and there were factory Yamaha racers there.  I asked a fellow "Why are you continuing to use all of these expensive special parts to make the bikes lighter?  They are already well below the minimum weight limit."  His reply "We add ballast to bring the weight up to the minimum.  We locate the ballast where the weight is least detrimental to handling."  Careful observation showed me the ideal place to locate the ballast was near the motocross bike center of mass.  The pros, especially the BSA team, tried to locate all heavy things as close to the center of the bike as possible, too.  Years later the Japanese would act like they invented this concept.  They called it mass centralization.

The Triumph was a handful to ride on soft and rutted salt.  The front wheel hunted from rut to rut and the bike wobbled a lot.  Mass centralization and general lightening is an ongoing process and it is making a big difference for the better.  The wobbles of old are wiggles now.  Weight can be a good thing for a LSR bike, and I will add ballast as needed where it will help traction and not hurt handling.

The lower part of the fairing was redone last year and now it is time for the upper half.  The bike had a frame for a headlight.  I do not use the fairing on the street anymore and the frame is removed.  In the past I used 0.025 sheet aluminum for the pieces where stiffness was needed and 0.020 sheet for the thinner parts.  This was a good idea for the knockabout life of a street bike fairing.  Now I use 0.020 for the stiffer pieces and 0.015 for the majority.  All of these changes remove weight that was high and up front.  This greatly helps the handling.

The thinner 0.015 thick aluminum is hard to find in sheets.  I use roll flashing from a roofer supply.  The temper is a bit soft.  It hardens up when it is hammered.  Sometimes I need to make a part with a lot of curvature.  In this case I cut metal from the roll, hammer it, anneal it with a torch, hammer it some more, and the process is repeated as needed.  The torch annealing must be done with care.  It is easy to melt the thin sheet.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 27, 2010, 11:07:03 PM
These are the specifics about the problems I am having with on-line density calcs.  I logged onto www.airdensityonline.com  Bonneville data is:

temp = 37.0 degrees fahrenheit
corrected baro = 30.38 in Hg
52% relative humidity
uncorrected baro = 26.06 in Hg
elev = 4212.6 feet

A "tit stiffener" is what we call this weather.

Input into the on-line calculator at http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_abs.htm or http://www.anycalculator.com/enginehorsepower.htm (they are the same)

air temp = 37.0 degrees Fahrenheit
absolute pressure = 30.38 in Hg (corrected baro used)
relative humidity = 52 percent

Output is:

SAE relative horsepower = 109.1 percent
dyno correction factor is 0.917
air density = 1.297 kilos per cubic meter
density altitude = -1965 feet
ICAO relative density = 105.9 percent
virtual temperature = 37.7 degrees fahrenheit
vapor pressure = 0.115 in Hg

Input into the on-line calculator at www.csgnetwork.com/relhumhpcalc.html is:

current air temp = 37.0 degrees Fahrenheit
ambient barometric pressure = 26.06 in Hg (uncorrected pressure used)
ambient relative humidity = 52 percent
physical or pressure altitude = 4212.6 feet

Output is:

calculated relative horsepower to rated = 75.8 percent
calculated dynomometer correction factor = 1.320
calculated air pressure = 22.24 in Hg
calculated vapor pressure = 0.114 in Hg

Big differences in answers.  Any ideas?



   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on October 28, 2010, 08:08:37 AM
The csgnetwork write-up calls for using corrected pressure.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 28, 2010, 10:15:33 PM
Tonight, the pressure readings are reversed.  The uncorrected 26.06 in Hg is used as the "Absolute Pressure" in the www.anycalculator... calculator.  The corrected 30.38 in Hg is used as the "Ambient Barometric Pressure" in the www.csgnetwork... calculator.  Both calculators give me the same result, a 1.100 dyno correction factor

The word "Ambient" on the www.csgnetwork... calculator input button is misleading.  It should be "Corrected to sea level."

This will be my rule of thumb.  "The calculator needs altitude, temperature, and relative humidity if it is asking for corrected to sea level atmospheric pressure.  The calculator needs temperature and relative humidity, only, if it asks for station or absolute pressure."

Thanks, Interested Bystander, for the advice.



   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 31, 2010, 11:18:58 PM
The engine and carb combination I ran this year was new and unknown.  It went on the dyno just after I got back and the results are posted earlier.  I do not know the engine rpm through the runs.  I got a peek at it during the first run and it was somewhere between 7,000 and 8,000 rpm.  I also remember how the bike felt.  There was all sorts of wiggling and wheelspin during the first run.  The wheelspin was managed.  I would back off of the throttle, the bike would hook up, and I would open it up again.  The bike was steady with no excess spin during the second run.

The speeds and other data are entered into the rpm vs speed chart.  Slip factors are assumed based on what I felt and it makes sense based on my peek at the tach.  These calculated rpm will be used with the dyno chart to figure out what happened during each run.

A comment about this procedure.  These slip factors are based on the few times during the years when I read the tach through runs.  I was able to backcalculate some slip factors using the speed and rpm data.  I remember what I felt at those times.  The slip factors vs feels on the bottom of the chart were figured out.  This is a Mickey Mouse method.  It is much better to use a data logger to record the actual rpm.   

 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Stan Back on November 01, 2010, 03:14:59 PM
"Thanks, Interested Bystander, for the advice."

You mean Interested Observer -- Bystander might not be real helpful in that.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 02, 2010, 01:04:13 AM
Thanks for pointing this out, Stan.  And the help is appreciated, Mr Observer.

The dyno curves for torque and horsepower are plotted along with vertical lines that represent the down and back runs.  The engine speeds are estimates from the RPM vs Speed Chart.  This is a reconstruction of this year's runs and it gives me the info I need to go faster next year.

Many posts ago, at the beginning of the engine tuning, I mentioned 7,500 as my target rpm.  This is the engine speed I want to have at full throttle through the measured miles.  It is a compromise that gives me reasonable performance and affordable engine life.  I was running right at my target rpm.  Any more speed will cause the rpm to increase above the target and it will shorten engine life or worse.  Task 1 will be to have 40 and 41 tooth rear sprockets cut.  This will allow me to go faster at reasonable rpm.

The run curves also show that my torque is dropping off rapidly when I reach maximum speed.  Also, I am past my horsepower peak.  I need to move my torque peak closer to 7,500 rpm.  Not much, about 500 to 700 rpm closer would be great.  I need to be careful here.  I need a broad spread of torque, with midrange torque to get me to top speed and high end torque to make good power when I get there.  Some intake and exhaust tuning will do the trick.  These are Tasks 2 and 3.

These run curves also show me the limits I have.  Maybe, with hard work, some help, and luck, I can get the horsepower into the mid to high 70's.  That is not much.  Very little, really.  I need to work hard on aero.  That is Task 4.  Lots to do.  Fortunately none of this is really expensive. 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on November 03, 2010, 07:43:42 AM
In support of near-namesake Interested Bystander, he, as an admitted “reader”, could have done just as well since it was just a matter of reading through the documentation.  Wobbly was looking for bark beetles and had forgotten which forest he was in.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 04, 2010, 01:09:34 AM
This year was the biggest race of my life and it was time to be prepared.  So I brought all sorts of wrong size sprockets, left most of my tools and spares on the workbench at home, and I did not have dyno curves for this year's engine.  It was a triple crown of dumbness.  Usually I am prepared and this is what I do.

First, I estimate the engine and wheel sprockets that will work best.  Then I make a run through the measured mile.  Now I have a time slip with a speed.

Second, I do my best to estimate the engine rpm.  A record from a data logger is best.  Visual tachometer readings are second best.  Calculating the rpm based on estimates of slip and the "RPM vs Speed Chart" is a last resort.  I always have the chart, just in case that I will need it.  Now I plot up that first run's rpm on the dyno curves for the engine, as shown on the "2010 Run Curves."  This tells me the engine's torque output during the run.

Third, I calculate the driving force at the rear wheel contact patch using the speed on the time slip and and the corresponding engine torque.  See attached "Driving Force" paper.

Fourth, I calculate the driving force at the speed on the time slip with the gearing change.  This could be a sprocket or tire change.  The proposed change is justified if it significantly increases the driving force.  An example will be posted tomorrow.

Most of my formulae have multipliers and these are for my bike, only.  They make it easier for me to calculations on the salt with a pencil and paper.  The RPM formula on the "RPM vs Speed Chart" has a multiplier of 1976.  The "Long RPM vs Speed" attachment to an April 2010 post shows the full formula without the multiplier.  The "Driving Force" formula has a 44.9 multiplier and the full formula is shown on the sheet, too.  A person wanting to use these methods needs to calculate their own multipliers.  Also, I do not correct the torque to Bonneville weather and climate conditions when I am making simple comparisons.  The correction factor, when I use it, is 86 percent.  In other words, torque and horsepower at Bonneville is 86 percent of what we measure on the dyno in Beaverton.   



 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: salt27 on November 04, 2010, 01:46:02 PM
WW,
86% seems to be a good number.
I have been using it for jetting [I'm at sea level] ever since Leroy Newmeyer told me to adjust 14%.
For me if it was not right on it was darn close.

Don


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on November 04, 2010, 09:43:22 PM
Wobbly, a couple of musings on your power curve---

In “observing” your power curve in reply 287 the “flat-topped” horsepower curve just didn’t seem consistent with the torque curve.  After cranking a few numbers, it appears that the horsepower data points at 7400 and 7800 rpm are plotted one unit too high.  While this is not a big deal, correcting the locations more vividly shows that you were running well beyond the approximately 6800 rpm current power peak.

Also, as you embark on more inlet and exhaust tuning, it may be useful to recall that what may be good at 60 degrees in Oregon may not be quite optimum at 95 degree Bonneville.  This would amount to about a 3.5% increase in acoustic celerity--again, not a big deal, but an indication of which way to round off dimensions, or a reason to include some “shimming” capability in the inlet tract. 

Getting the inlet, exhaust, and valve timing all coordinated will probably keep you well occupied over the winter.



Re: Your “driving force” performance evaluation process (reply 289):

First, there is a much easier way to calculate the tractive effort, or “driving force.”  Force times velocity equals power.  More particularly,  Force (lb) x Velocity (mph) / 375 = Horsepower (hp)  and conversely, Force (lb) = 375*Hp/mph.  (This is just a linear version of a relationship you are already familiar with--Hp = torque (rotational force) x rpm (rotational velocity)).

Example:  70 horsepower expended at 125 mph produces 375*70/125 = 210 lbs of “driving force”.
One could also include an efficiency factor to account for driveline losses.

Second, why do you care what the torque or driving force is,  except to get an idea of the aerodynamic drag?
All the torque in the world won’t pull the skin off a grape.  To do work (go 130 mph at Bonneville) one must apply POWER.  Likewise, to accelerate you need to apply power.  Don’t worry about how broad the torque curve is or is not, worry about the power curve.  Manipulate the power curve itself by tuning changes, and its application by gearing arrangements.

Of course, none of this is meant to criticize you or your methods, it just illustrates a different and perhaps simpler perspective that may be useful.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 04, 2010, 11:46:00 PM
Thanks for finding the error in the horsepower curve.  Some of this is late night work and mistakes are easy.  The torque method seems to be easier for people to understand when discussing the effects of sprocket and tire size changes.  It gives similar results to the power method.  I used the power method to verify the results of this torque method before I posted it.  I can post the power method results, too, if requested.

Let's pretend I came to the flats with extra 41 and 40 tooth rear sprockets.  As seen by looking at the power and torque curves, the overall gear ratio is high and I am running well beyond peak torque and a little bit past peak power.  Do I put on a smaller rear sprocket and make another run?  Will it help?  This is a big concern.  The engine is torn down every ten runs for inspection and this is expensive.  I do not want to waste a run while using an idea that might not work.  It is time for some quick figgering.

First, I use calculate the driving force that gets me to the speed I am running.  In this case it is 192 pounds force.

Second, the rpm is calculated that will occur at the speed I am currently running with the proposed gearing combination.  The engine torque is figured out for this rpm using the dyno curves.

Third, the driving force is calculated for the proposed gearing.  It will make me go faster if it creates more driving force.

I initially ran a 42 tooth rear.  Calcs are done for a 41 tooth rear and it would give 194 pounds force.  A 40 tooth rear will give 195 pounds force.  These are small increases and not worth the time, effort, and wear and tear on the motor. 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 06, 2010, 11:57:30 PM
Sprocket change calcs using the power method are attached.  This procedure is explained in the book by John Bradley "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide to constructors"  ISBN 0 9512929 2 7

The torque and power methods give me slightly different results and the power method's are usually higher.  The torque method I can verify to be correct by vector diagrams and the principles of simple machines.  I use the torque method because of this.

Either way, the methods show that a sprocket change would not be worth it.  I was hoping it was what I needed.  It appears that I need more horsepower. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: WhizzbangK.C. on November 07, 2010, 12:23:39 AM
Sprocket change calcs using the power method are attached.  This procedure is explained in the book by John Bradley "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide to constructors"  ISBN 0 9512929 2 7

The torque and power methods give me slightly different results and the power method's are usually higher.  The torque method I can verify to be correct by vector diagrams and the principles of simple machines.  I use the torque method because of this.

Either way, the methods show that a sprocket change would not be worth it.  I was hoping it was what I needed.  It appears that I need more horsepower. 

Using the HP method, you show to have 11 more pounds of force with the smaller sprocket. In my mind that's enough difference to go for the sprocket change and give it a try just to see how much more speed that might actually give you. Have you calculated even smaller sprockets, say down to 35 teeth or even smaller? You may find that there's a sweet spot somewhere in there that would justify hunting one down or even having one made if not available, even if you had to run it out in a lower gear. Seems like a lot of folks don't pull top gear and are setting records, reference Ack Attack.

You've mentioned in the past working on your aero package more, and I think your calculations point out the importance of that also. Better aero will decrease the driving force required to achieve a given speed. Since you've established how much driving force you have available with your current engine package, perhaps you can now calculate how much drag you need to lose to get to your target speed, and work your aero mods based on that?

On our 250 bikes, we seem to get the best results running smaller sprockets in 3rd gear (4 speed gearboxes). We've experimented with larger sprockets and trying to pull 4th, but haven't had much success due to the large jump between 3rd and 4th, just a characteristic of the design that we have to deal with and may not apply to yours at all, but I thought I'd mention it as something you may want to crunch some numbers on.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on November 07, 2010, 04:57:06 PM
The disparity in tractive effort calculated between the power method and torque method is due to the necessity of using the tire circumference in the torque method.  All the rest of the analysis is completely consistent.  It is not clear how Wobbly determined the 79.25” dimension for this circumference--whether it is the unloaded circumference or a loaded rollout measurement.  Since reducing the loaded rolling radius from that of the 79.25 circumference by .63” (a likely amount of tire deflection) brings the tractive efforts into agreement, it would seem that the 79.25 figure is unloaded, or otherwise slightly erroneous.

Also, rather than making various stabs at different gearing, if, in this case 70 hp produces 129.5 mph and most of the drag is aero (which goes as power cubed) and the maximum power available is 72 hp, then P2/P1 = (V2/V1)^3 and V2 would equal V1 times the cube root of the power ratio, or 129.5*1.0094 = 130.7 mph.  If the bike were re-geared to operate at the maximum power, it should be able to produce the 130.7 mph.  Then the question is whether a 1.2 mph increase is worth it.  This seems more informative than just determining the change in TE.  (On the same basis, 80 hp would produce 135.3 mph--is that worth it?)


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 08, 2010, 10:31:14 PM
Thanks, Mr Observer.  I was using the unladen tire circumference measured with a tape.  That explains the difference.  You are smarter than me.  I spent an evening trying to figure out why both methods gave different results and I could not figure out an answer.

K.C., valve size is a problem in these little Triumphs.  The intakes are 2mm larger than standard.  This change, with a port job, really helped the 790 cc engine.  This bigger engine can benefit from 4 mm larger intakes and exhaust valves.  South Bay Triumph makes these.  I am not sure if I will put them in.  Lately I have been riding around town on frosty mornings, in the rain, at night, and there are leaves all over the road from the street trees.  This engine is very well mannered and I can tractor around in these conditions without wheel spin.  This is the best street engine I have built, by far.  It is hard to make it better and easy to screw it up.  Like you say, it is time for me to work on aero.

Talk among land speed racers can be sorta casual about blowing apart motors.  Experience has shown me that an engine failure leads to a series of events that I do not control.  One of these is the classic "high side" when a person is flipped off the bike and into the air.  Engine reliability is especially critical on a bike like the Triumph.  The spinning transmission shafts and gears are inches away from the rods and pistons.  Parts from a fracture can easily fall into the tranny and lock it up along with the rear wheel.  Life would suddenly be very interesting.  This is what I do to lower the chances of a blowup.

First, the bike has a rev limiter and it is set to an engine speed about 500 to 1000 rpm less than "explosion."  It is hard to look at a tach and use the throttle to limit engine rpm on the salt.  Too much is happening too quickly.  A rev limiter is essential.

Second, the engine is built to be strong using the best parts available.  The motto is "built it stout now and worry about performance later."

Last, there are periodic tear downs and inspections.  These attempt to find potential problems before they become disasters.

The reason I mention this.  The tire broke loose twice during the down run this year.  The engine hit the rev limiter both times before I rolled back on the throttle.  Last winter I did a periodic tear down, problems were identified and fixed, the bike has a rev limiter, and it is set to a safe rpm.  There is a good possibility, had I not done all of this, that engine would have blown.  As they say, be careful, be safe, and go fast.         

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on November 09, 2010, 12:51:59 PM
Off the basic subject, but it's a question that has always evaded an answer from me:

"I was using the unladen tire circumference measured with a tape.  That explains the difference.  You are smarter than me.  I spent an evening trying to figure out why both methods gave different results and I could not figure out an answer."

I can understand pretty well how the diameter of a tire will change between loaded/not loaded -- but I don't see how the circumference can change.  Whether squished down harder on the surface or not, there's no change in the amount of rubber -- it doesn't fold in or anything, so 100% of it still has to travel on the surface.  It flexes from round to flat and back, sure -- but it doesn't grow or get shorter.

Please teach me how the circumference changes -- or tell me that I really do have it correct.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: RidgeRunner on November 09, 2010, 02:10:32 PM
Tire under load squishes down resulting less height from top of tire to ground - smaller dia.

Smaller dia divided by 2 for new radius multiplied by pi [a constant 3.14xxx] results in a new smaller "real or effective" circumference.

Less circumference means less "roll out" or forward distance gained per revolution.

Help any?

Nearly 40 years ago as I was changing eng sprockets [countershaft sprocket wasn't handy to change behind the clutch basket and rear was one piece with the brake drum] looking for optimum gearing a fellow watching made the comment that the final ratio may be the same but it makes a difference where the changes are made, ie between the eng sprocket and clutch basket or between the countershaft sprocket and real wheel sprocket.  In other words, where the torque is multiplied in the chain of events can make a difference even though the numbers "should" give equal results.  Just now starting to understand that concept myself.

                      Ed


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on November 09, 2010, 03:17:35 PM
SSS,
The essential dimension for use in Wobbly’s torque formula is the effective rolling radius--the distance from the center of the axle to the ground plane.  This is approximated in his formula by calculating from the tire circumference, presumably because that is (arguably) easier to measure. 

So, you are mostly right that the circumference itself probably doesn’t change substantially.  However, being of rubber composite construction, the circumference probably does change to a small degree when it is deflected by the ground, although the shorter (straight) distance along the contact patch is mostly made up for by slight outward bulging of the tire ahead of and behind the patch.


Ridgerunner,
Don’t give much creedance to your onlooker’s comment.  The only difference would be in friction losses, possibly due to the type or number of components in the drivetrain.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on November 09, 2010, 03:54:35 PM
IO, I'lkl take your response as about what I had figgered on my own - and thank you for corroborating my own story.  I can see how the effective radius - axle to ground - is made smaller by the tire's deflection, and therefore how that'd affect the torque.  And this way I'm allowed to keep my circumference about the same (I still think it doesn't change at all) because the amount of rubber doesn't change -- save maybe for some small amount due to the outward "squish" of the tire.  Thanks to both of you.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on November 09, 2010, 10:56:55 PM
I would have thought that at, say 120 mph, the centrifugal force exerted on the tyre would have caused it to grow even when it had some load on it. I know that with some of the custom stuff i used to work on, and in particular older scooters, if you put a slightly larger rear tyre on, it would spin on the stand with the wheel in the air but as soon as you got some speed up on the road it would run into the engine case.
Having said that, it would generally be "J" and "P" rated tyres that were not really high performance equipment
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on November 10, 2010, 10:06:57 AM
Yes -- no question (from me, at least) about tire growth at higher speeds.  I was talking about (and so were the others, I think) the reduction in overall height due to the load.  I expect that there's a point/speed where the two cancel out one another, meaning the torque bonus given when the tire is spinning slowly and squished down - goes away as the squish goes away when the spinning makes it grow.

But tire circumference wasn't WW's topic - the Partial Streamliner is -=- so I'll return control of the thread to him.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 10, 2010, 10:15:18 PM
The Triumph runs relatively narrow v-rated steel belted Metzeler radials.  Not much growth expected with these and a slow bike.  On a big fast bike like the 1400 cc Kawasaki with wider tires it might be a different story.  All of my old data is based on tire circumference.  One of my winter projects will be to calculate a conversion factor between tractive force calculated using tire circumference and the torque method to tractive force figured out by the horsepower and speed method.

Does anyone have a good tire rolling resistance equations or coefficients of rolling friction for radial motorcycle tires?  My equations from Hoerner and Cooper are based on the older bias ply tires.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 11, 2010, 01:16:06 PM
The Triumph will be raced until Spring 2015.  That year I will race in Australia with the big valve head.  Probably that will be my lifetime fastest speed.  Bonnie and I will both retire in August 2015.

A guy like me needs a retirement project to keep busy and out of trouble.  My sister inherited my father's Toyota truck.  It is a four cylinder with the last version of a carbureted engine.  As much as possible of that truck will be my power train for project "Model B Roadster."  Right now I am trying to talk her into selling me the truck and I will stash the engine, trans, diff, etc. away until 2015 when I start the build.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: JimL on November 11, 2010, 09:51:11 PM
PM me with an address....I've got a useful little book that may help with your 22R project.....I'll mail one to you.

Regards, JimL


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 11, 2010, 10:37:43 PM
Thanks, Jim.  I will PM you with my address.  Today I was going to talk to my wife about this project.  I did not.  Some inner voice tells me I need to think this one through before I commit.  Cars are far more complicated than bikes and there are so many more parts.  I will build a roadster.  I need to figure out what I want vs what I can afford, etc. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 12, 2010, 02:48:03 PM
Project "Model B Roadster" is moving along.  There is a 1990 Toyota Tacoma sitting out in the driveway.  It has a 22RE engine and I take good care of it.  It is my wife's truck.  Lately we are discussing a new vehicle for her.  This old truck will be part of the roadster.  The decision was easy.  The government is a little out of control here.  This project is five to seven years down the road.  Who knows how hard it will be to register and license a special construction vehicle?  It will be easier if I have the vehicle and I am simply modifying it.

The big job was talking to Rose.  This donor vehicle is her truck and it will be another project.  We have been married 32 years and she knows my weakness for collecting and hoarding rusty junk I never use.  I showed her the roadsters in The Rodders Journal, the hot rod kits, and the pictures of the new body parts being made in Ohio.  I told her I would use new stuff as much as possible.  She gave the OK.  Now I will spend five years collecting all the info I can about mating a Toyota Truck with a Ford Model B.

The magazine The Rodders Journal deserves a lot of credit.  It is a classy publication that presents hot rodding in a format I can show and discuss with my wife and daughters.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 13, 2010, 12:49:00 PM
These next posts are about aero.  "The Racing Motorcycle" by John Bradley will be the primary reference.  He has a lot of information on partial streamlining in Volume 1.  A reference to "Bradley" will be to this book.  These posts will illustrate, without a doubt, that I am not a rocket scientist.  Hey, we all cannot be Miss America.  Someone has to be at the lower end of the bell curve.

The 2007 configuration is shown in the photo.  Aero changes are the fairing, the low seat, and the little tail section behind the seat.  The speed I obtained with the horsepower available is plotted on the graph by the circle with the dot in the middle.  This is part of Bradley's graph on page 67.  Properly designed racing bikes are near the lower line and road bikes with lousy aero are near the upper line.

My bike had horrible aero in 2007.  I would have gone faster naked.  The cross-sectional area at the fairing trailing edge is the base area.  It is very large.  I could fit almost entirely within this base area with only my hands and helmet top projecting.  To quote Bradley "Shapes like this, which many people think of as low drag, are not.  They suffer from high base drag because the pressure is still very low when the flow separates at the large base area."  In other words, where the air passes the trailing fairing edge there is a large low pressure zone at the edge of, and behind, the fairing.  Air is sucked into a large turbulent wake behind the fairing.  This creates base drag.

There were some naked Triumphs similar to mine at the 2007 meet.  We discussed the horsepower and speeds of our bikes.  It was obvious to me that something was very wrong.  I had a lot of work to do.  The next post will discuss the 2008 changes and show that year's dot.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: debgeo on November 13, 2010, 05:09:37 PM
WOW that book is pricey!!! Looks like good info .Will watch with interest. I have been using info provided to me by Bob Bakker. Like you some of the info challenges my IQ.   ps From listening to some of the beauty pageant contestant's talk I think they may be at bottom of bell curve.

Disclaimer I not saying they all fit this description as my daughters best friend went to college on a full scholarship. She almost won in her state.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 13, 2010, 06:00:14 PM
   ps From listening to some of the beauty pageant contestant's talk I think they may be at bottom of bell curve.

What?...that's outrageous!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on November 13, 2010, 06:20:49 PM
Dr. G:  That should be in the Blonde joke thread!   :mrgreen:

Mike


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 55chevr on November 13, 2010, 07:07:35 PM
Dunno why it was posted here but that is funny ... you can't make this subaru up.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: debgeo on November 13, 2010, 11:12:30 PM
Dunno why it was posted here but that is funny ... you can't make this subaru up.
  Read post 308 & 309 and you will understand. Just having a little fun with WW


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 14, 2010, 01:21:45 PM
Deb, Bradley's main expertise is with smaller displacement road race bikes.  He emphasizes proper setup, the shape of the engine power curve, gearing, aero, etc.  Racing success with those little buggers depends on mastering these things.  Right now I am limited to what I can achieve with a 70 to 80 horsepower engine in a big heavy bike.  Like Bradley, horsepower is limited and I need to work with setup, engine power curve, gearing, aero etc. to get speed.  Fortunately, the LSR partial streamliner is similar to a road race bike from an aero viewpoint and Bradley's advice applies.  My guess is, if you are in a similar situation, the book's cost is worth it.

It is 2008.  This is my first experience with salt termites.  What awful creatures they are!  My bike is being eaten alive.  The fairing lower is changed so it covers the engine crankcases and a belly pan is installed.  This will keep the salt out of the undercarriage and it will help aero.  It is visible in the picture.  A 6-inch shorter rear fender is installed to reduce drag at the back end.  This is hidden in the photo.

The front fender is a harder decision.  There were, and are, many record holding Triumphs with naked front wheels.  The disadvantage of a naked wheel is the rotating atmosphere that surrounds it.  The rotating air around the top of the wheel is traveling in the opposite direction of the prevailing airflow.  This creates turbulence and drag.  Also, the naked wheel sprays salt all over everything.  I made a front fender and shaped it to help aero.  The flared sides direct the air around the boxy lower fairing.  Other changes are a non-o-ring chain and removing the front brake.  This will slightly reduce rolling friction drag.

The horsepower vs speed graph is shown with the 2008 runs.  They are the two dots in the 115 to 120 mph range.  My other two 2007 runs are plotted, too.  They are in the 90 to 100 mph area.  Speed is greater and this is mainly due to some engine work.  Note how the resistance to motion is dropping.  The aero and other little changes are helping.  I have a long way to go, but I am going in the right direction.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 15, 2010, 10:42:12 PM
The 2007 bike photo is courtesy of Michael Cole.  He was a volunteer working in the timing tower at BUB.  He has set records on a Suzuki rotary.  This 2009 bike photo is taken by Corey Levenson.  This was one of his first attempts at professional photography.

Now it is 2009.  The engine is the same build as in 2008 and it is getting tired.  A set of Nology coils and wires perks it up.  Now it performs the same as it did a year earlier.  A radial front tire is installed and this lowers rolling resistance.  This is the first year I run lower 36# front and 38# rear tire pressures.  Before I used the maximum that was printed on the sidewall.  This probably cancels out and advantages of the radial.  Any differences between 2009 and 2008 will be from aero.

The fairing corners below the headlight, and the corners at the bottom of the lower section, are boxy.  They are smoothed out using larger radius corners.  A tail section is fabricated.  It meets AMA modified partial streamliner standards.  These are the aero changes.

The 2009 dots are shown on the graph.  Note how I am going faster with the same horsepower.  This is due to better aero.  Also, I am getting closer to the lower line.  The resistance to motion is getting closer to a race bike's.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 16, 2010, 10:47:13 PM
2010, it is.  The engine year.  Aero work is taking the flare out of the lower fairing trailing edges.  This is done to keep the flow attached as far along the motorcycle sides as possible.  The photo by Ray the Rat shows this.  Also, the crash bars are removed.  I figure out how to tie the motorcycle down on the trailer without using them.  These are small aero changes.

The graph shows that these small changes do not help much.  The 2010 dots are not any closer to the lower line than the 2009 dots.  The 2010 dots are farther to the right and higher than those in 2009.  This shows that more horsepower, rather than aerodynamics, is making me go faster.

Rear sprockets need to be cut for this bike.  I cannot buy ready-made sprockets in the size that I need.  The next posts will show how I use this graph to determine the sprocket size.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: fredvance on November 17, 2010, 10:33:58 AM
I would be looking at trying to get as much air around/past your arms and shoulders. IMHO

  Fred


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 17, 2010, 11:23:09 PM
Thanks for the advice.  The body work is being redone.  The back half this year and the front half the next year.

The speed vs power chart is one of my best tuning tools.  It will be used to figure out the rear sprocket size I will need next year.  It is also used to figure all sorts of other useful stuff, like how much power I will need to reach a certain speed.

This winter's aero work will add 5 mph, as my best guess.  This speed increase will not require any more power.  It is drawn as a horizontal dashed line on the chart.  Hopefully the intake tuning and jetting this winter will produce 75 horsepower on the dyno in Beaverton.  This will be 65.4 horsepower on the salt.  A horizontal line is drawn across the graph at this horsepower.  Another dashed line is drawn, parallel to Bradley's lower curve, upward from the right end of the dashed line.  This represents the speed increase due to more power.  This dashed line intersects the horsepower line.  This intersection point is estimated to be as fast as I will go, 136 mph.  The sprocket size will be calculated in the next post.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 19, 2010, 10:11:38 PM
More figuring...

The sprocket I will have made must be large enough to assure that the chain does not rub on the hub.  About 3/16 of an inch clearance between the bottom of the sprocket teeth and the hub is enough.  This will provide room for the chain.

The first step is to lay a sprocket on a piece of paper and to trace its shape, including the teeth and the mounting holes.  Also, I draw in the parts of the hub that are closest to the sprocket teeth.  The "C" shaped lines on the drawing show the sprocket mounting flanges.  The number of teeth on the traced sprocket is not an issue, although the sprocket must fit on the hub.  This is a 42-tooth Sunstar sprocket from Triumph.  Next, I fugure out the exact center of the sprocket.

Next, I measure the traced sprocket radius to the bottom of the teeth.  Also, I figure out the sprocket radius with 3/16 inch clearance between the teeth bottoms and the hub.  This is the smallest radius the new sprocket can have.  Some simple multiplication and division tells me the minimum number of teeth on a rear wheel sprocket.  It is usually a fractional number.  I round it to the highest whole number.  The smallest sprocket I can use on this hub has 36 teeth.

A roadster question.  I can get an older 22R Toyota engine with a carb or a newer 22R four cylinder engine in a lot better condition with fuel injection.  The injectors are screwed into the intake manifold just upstream from where the manifold bolts onto the head.  It will be difficult to fit this massive, ugly as Medusa, system under a Model B hood.  Is there a simple way to toss the system and to mount a carb setup?

In this part of Oregon we do not have the periodic smog system checks like they do in California.  We mail in our registration fee every two years and no one in the govt knows what we do to the car.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 21, 2010, 01:36:43 AM
All of these graphs and formulae are used to make everyday decisions.  The first one I do is to calculate the sprocket size I need to go 136 mph.  A 40 tooth one will be OK.  I order one.  Then, I think about ordering a 36 tooth one, too.  Over 90 horsepower will be needed for me to go the 150 mph that sprocket will allow.  There are no plans to build the engine to make that power.  I will order a 38 tooth sprocket.  That will work good with the big valve head and I should get into the lower 140's.

This is the last post on this subject.  These are the most complex calculations I do.  I am not a mental kinda guy.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 23, 2010, 09:15:53 PM
The streamlining will be redone during the next two years.  The rear section will be redone this year.  The front fender will be remade, too, if I have time.   This is a tall bike with a short wheelbase and I am a big guy that does not fold into a tight tuck very well.  Miracles will not happen.  I will be happy to drop down to Bradley's lower line on the horsepower vs speed graph.

It is important to plan the streamlining.  The front and rear sections must compliment each other, fit the bike, and cover the rider.  The first step is to draw up the bike dimensions.  The pegs and handlebar grips are shown.  This tells me where my hands and feet will be.  Two lines mark my shoulder width and two more mark the width of my bum.  A line perpendicular to the bike center line shows the back of the seat.  All is drawn to scale.

About the roadster.  The Model B Ford is a rare car, I thought.  I was wrong.  They are popular for making hot rods and there are all sorts of parts and a lot of Model A items will fit.  This is great.  It seems that the car will need to be inspected at the department of motor vehicles.  I will keep the fuel injection on the 22R engine until I get the thing registered.  A forum member sent me a nice book and a lot of hints on how to make the injection system work in a Model B.  Thanks, JimL.  This summer I will start to build the roadster shed.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 24, 2010, 10:53:12 PM
Usually I write up these graphs and charts during my work lunch time.  The figuring for this streamlining shape got me so engrossed that I worked on it for most of the afternoon.

The sketch shows the plan view of the widest part of the streamlined shape.  The 25-inch width gives coverage for my hands, legs, chest, and arms.  My shoulders are marked with lines behind the hand grips.  The shape appears to be wider than my shoulders.  It is not.  My shoulders are higher than the widest part of the shape and they are at the edge of the shape at that height.

The width is figured, now it is time to calculate the length.  The rules say "Any aerodynamic aid on any section behind the rider and his seat shall only exceed the rear edge of the tyre up to a distance equal to half of the rear wheel rim diameter."   An easy to understand rule!  This is 17 / 2 = 8.5 inches.  I will use 7.5 inches to be safe.  The front of the streamlining will be above the front axle.  This gives me an 83 inch total length.

Ideally, the widest part of the shape is at 25 percent of the untruncated shape length.  This is too far back on this bike.  I want the widest part to be in front of my widest part, my hands and shoulders.  The widest part at 25 percent of the truncated length fits better.  The widest part is 62.25 inches in front of the back end.

It is important that the air flow near the streamlined skin stay attached to the shape.  I do not want the rear section included angle to be more than 10 degrees in order to keep the flow attached.  Trial and error is used to figure out the best rear shape.  The one shown has a 10 degree included angle and no more.

The back end is truncated to a 9 inch wide flat section with this shape.  This is not ideal.  This increases drag 15 to 20 percent according to Bradley's data.  It is the best I can do with this short wheelbase bike.  There are some things I will do to address this problem.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: WhizzbangK.C. on November 25, 2010, 03:15:29 AM
The rules say "Any aerodynamic aid on any section behind the rider and his seat shall only exceed the rear edge of the tyre up to a distance equal to half of the rear wheel rim diameter."

Are you not running Bub's next year? That doesn't look like anything in their rule book. Just asking is all.

Have you considered extending the swing arm to allow you a longer rear fairing to minimize the truncated area?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 25, 2010, 09:52:20 PM
This is a 2010 FIM rule.  Yes, I will be at BUB.

The wheelbase is extended now, but not by much.  Somewhere between 1.5 to 3 inches, as I recall.  The bike seems to be well balanced now.  It has a good drift in the corners.  A bit more drift in the rear than the front and the handling is slow and steady but tolerable.  I am afraid that with a longer wheel base there will be too much weight on the front tire and it will drift more than the rear.  That would be really spooky.  I do not want to permanently extend the swing arm for this reason.

I thought more about your idea.  A fellow on this forum knows about some swing arm extensions made by Harris in England.  That concept might be the answer.  I could extend the arm for racing on the salt and shorten it back for the street.  Then I could get rid of the truncated end.

This Christmas I am buying a welding set for Werner.  Maybe some bolt on extensions can be a future project.  The young guy needs something useful to do. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 26, 2010, 12:24:22 PM
The BUB bike #240, a Triumph, is one of the best partially streamlined bikes based on my miniscule knowledge of aero.  This is Tom Mellor's bike.  It is a very good example of how a longer wheelbase can be used to give more length.  Tom's approach to streamlining is best.  Mine is compromised.  My bike is like a street rod and it must be a daily driver, too.

The Triumph is measured up in side view as shown on the sketch.  Gretchen took some measurements with me on it.  It is very important to include the rider in the overall design.  Look at Scooter Grubb's website, 2010 BUB meet, Day 3, Page 2.  A big fellow or lass is on Tom's #240.  Note the fit.  Another picture is in the 2009 BUB meet photos, Day 2, Page 1.  Tom is on Tom's #240.  See the perfect fit.  This makes a big difference in aero.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: WhizzbangK.C. on November 26, 2010, 03:34:42 PM
You're going through a lot of the same process that we've used to determine the aero shapes on our bikes. What we've found to work well is to make full size templates of side profiles and frontal areas with the rider in riding position on the bike. We used large cardboard boxes, like a water heater or refrigerator carton, flattened out and propped up beside the bike. Have an accomplice (it's always good to have accomplices, or even minions, that way you have someone else to pass the blame onto if it doesn't work out exactly right), trace your outline on the bike in full riding apparel and position, and the bike outline onto it in plan view.Top, side, and frontal views. That way you can draw out the shapes that you think may work on the cardboard to really visualize them fully. I don't know about you but my mind works best in full scale and 3 dimensions.

 That's the process that we used to develop the shape on the 7419 bike. It seemed to work well for us anyway. Here's a picture of it right before we loaded up to leave this year.

(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/Whizzbang02/Bonneville%202010/100_4518.jpg)

(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/Whizzbang02/Bonneville%202010/100_4520.jpg)

Of course, as everyone knows this body is wood. We were running out of time and I wanted to at least prove the concept for the bike, this year with the chassis and engine mostly done I'll be starting early in the spring to make a real body for it, more in line with the original concept of some sexy fiberglass, like so.

(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/Whizzbang02/Bonneville%202010/100_4433.jpg)

I kind of went to extremes to minimize frontal area and maximize the tail length, and was concerned that the large slab sides would make it uncontrollable in cross-winds, but it turned out to be a complete non issue and rode very well through some side gusts over 10mph, so I feel comfortable putting the effort into a more complex streamlining setup.

And yes, Tom Mellor's bike is a very nice piece of kit. I told him personally that his body work was a great inspiration to me in the design of the rear end of mine. I don't know if he took that as a compliment though, LOL.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 28, 2010, 09:31:05 PM
Ed, did the streamlinined rear section work as intended?  It sure looks like it would.  I am using your idea of drawing things.  It helps.

The English road racer, Peter Williams, has written about his career.  He helped to develop the John Player Norton road race bikes in the 1970's.  They did a lot of wind tunnel testing and they experimented with lowering the windshield.  One time they lowered it enough to greatly improve aero.  Peter says he could feel the air rushing across his back when the screen height was correct.

The windshield on the Triumph was lowered 3 inches this fall.  This will let me tuck down lower toward the tank.  Hopefully the air will flow over me rather than around me.  Also, my lower stance will reduce the large gap between the back of the windshield and the front of me.  My upright position and the air gap are seen on photos of the bike, on Scooter's 2010 BUB website, 2010 BUB Photos, Day 3, Pages 8 and 9.

It took two tries.  It is important to have a rounded front.  The first time I did it I did not get the shape right.  The second time it came out OK. 

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: WhizzbangK.C. on November 28, 2010, 10:35:49 PM
"Ed, did the streamlined rear section work as intended?  It sure looks like it would." 

I believe that it did help. If you look at the frame I ran the last 2 years and the bike this year, my overall height is about the same, width is slightly narrower now because I don't have to hang my legs outside the frame and mechanical parts. I made no changes to the engine that would have an affect on power. I've never been able to get acceleration in 4th gear with the old configuration, in fact it would always slow down. This year it was gaining speed in 4th gear for a bit, with a sprocket combo that I tried last year without success. I was feeling really good on that run until the engine locked up again, right in the middle of the trap, LOL. I now have a collection of toasted pistons all pointing to the fact that I need more clearance between the cylinder wall and the piston. That will be remedied next year for sure.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 29, 2010, 01:18:54 AM
My first and last attempt at web journalism.  http:www.motorcycleclassics.com/restoration-technical/sidewalk-motorcycle-tire-repair.aspx


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: debgeo on November 29, 2010, 09:24:18 AM
 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 30, 2010, 10:14:08 PM
Thanks, Deb.  That article was fun to make.  It was done in 2008.  Heidi Rose was in a photography class and this was a good way to show her the practical uses of photography.  She was interested in professional picture taking.  The whole experience taught her to concentrate her efforts on finding another way to make a living.  Photography is a nice hobby or a way to supplement your income from a steady day job.

The side view shows me tucked down behind the windshield that was lowered three inches this winter.  This is the higher position and I stick up into the air.  I am too high.  The lower position shows me tucked down behind a windshield that is lowered another 3 inches.  This tuck will be just about right.  I will lower the windshield when I rebuild the front fairing.

The old tail section is shown by dashed lines and the new by solid.  The new wide truncated end creates excess drag and this is reduced, somewhat, by reducing the truncated end height.  This excercise shows the value of using photographs as a design tool.     

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 06, 2010, 12:41:33 AM
The rear section frame is partially built and I put it on the bike today.  The spine for the old rear is clamped to it.  This shows how much bigger the new rear is.  The seat pan is one I have been using for several years.  Every time I change the rear section I reuse it.  It is 3/16 inch thick aluminum.  The rest of the frame is 12 gauge with the exception of the thin angle shapes that the sheet metal is riveted to.  They are 1/16 inch thick.

My usual procedure is to cut the part out of the sheet and to temporarily rivet it onto the main assembly.  Then, I ask myself, is there metal I can remove to make this part lighter without compromising its strength?  Then I use the sawzall or hole saws to remove the metal.  Sometimes I will lighten the part and cover the holes with a riveted on piece of 0.012 inch thick roof flashing.  I have done this to cover the lightening holes on the seat back.

It is much easier to draw lines on paper than it is to make the parts out of metal.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: charlie101 on December 06, 2010, 08:13:24 PM
You didn't want to put more weight on the front wheel, thus not lenghtenen the swingarm more than a couple of inches, what about putting the tank back there and then you can lenghten the swingarm a bit more and still have the same weight on the front wheel and tuck even lower on the frame?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 07, 2010, 01:11:06 AM
That is an idea I will consider.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 08, 2010, 01:06:20 AM
Oil filters are a current forum topic.  The Mobil 1 M1-108 synthetic fiber blend filter fits this 790cc 2003 Triumph T-100 Bonneville.   The oil appears to be cleaner based on visual inspection, as compared to the paper filters.  There have been no filter related problems during street or racing use.  The oil is changed twice a year and the filter is renewed at every oil change.  The filter is filled with fresh oil before it is installed.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on December 08, 2010, 08:37:18 AM
My first and last attempt at web journalism.  http:www.motorcycleclassics.com/restoration-technical/sidewalk-motorcycle-tire-repair.aspx
   

WW
  Well you made that look easy
as Motorcycho said "Never seems that easy when I do it!"

And I've got a tyre machine
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 12, 2010, 02:16:23 AM
Grumm, in my earlier life I moved around a lot.  Many times I was the low seniority mechanic and the bottom guy on the totem pole.  Changing tires and cleaning bathrooms.  I did a lot of that.

Recently, my oldest girl graduated from college, bought a car, and got married.  She is on her honeymoon.  Soon she will be gone and starting a new life.  She was one of three children I have brought to Bonneville.  It was a big event for both of us and something she fondly talks about.  It is expensive to take a young person to the salt and they need attention.  This distracts one from the tasks at hand.  In hindsight, I never regret bringing a well mannered child with me.  Giving them this experience is worth any inconvenience.

A few years ago I was going to install new bright lights in the cave like Team Go Dog Go! workshop.  This would be a lot of money.  Lights, wiring, etc., and the electricity to power them.  I needed to buy performance parts and beer and the new brightness would destroy the cellar's romantic ambiance.  Instead, I bought this little headlight.  It uses LED bulbs and rechargeable batteries and a charge lasts a long time.  The light pivots.  I wear bifocals and I need to tilt my head to see things up close.  The pivot allows the light to be directed to where I am looking.  There is an intense spotlight setting and a wider floodlight setting.  All are useful.  The light is an Everready 6-bulb LED headlight.

The light makes it much easier to see when cutting sheet metal, drilling holes, and doing all sorts of machining tasks.  Also, it is good for under the truck jobs like changing u-joints.  My workmanship has noticeably improved.  All said, the light is a good investment. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on December 12, 2010, 02:38:12 AM
WW
Electricity isn't a problem here, as I have a 2kw of solar on the roof, and it doesn't really get to freezing here so it seems I'm always in credit. I only recently started wearing reading glasses as I found my arms were too short for me to read.
Beer and scotch, brew my own.
Taking children to the salt, the Rev and Dr Googles generally go in the same car, not mine and pay for themselves.
Since being an apprentice I've generally been the head mechanic, and usually the only mechanic. Most of the stuff I worked on until I joined the motorcycle trade, didn't have tyres, it had tracks. Changing tyres. I'm used to using a machine. Got one at work and one at home. but tube type tyres (Aus spelling) Arrrrrggggggghhhhh

G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: gearheadeh on December 12, 2010, 09:13:29 AM
Hey W.W.
I don't know about everybody else but I do make a point of reading your thread. For the reason that you are not too shy to bring up anything and everything that might be interesting.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: RidgeRunner on December 12, 2010, 12:03:07 PM
Hey W.W.
I don't know about everybody else but I do make a point of reading your thread. For the reason that you are not too shy to bring up anything and everything that might be interesting.  :cheers:

+1

   Ed


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 15, 2010, 01:05:28 AM
This afternoon I looked out of the window where I work and saw a big dark thunderstorm a few miles away.  It looked like a nasty one.  Inside, where I could not see, there was a tornado.  It trashed a neighboring town and crossed over a highway.  Our district maintenance crew took these photos when they cleaned a barn off of the roadway.

Curves drawn on paper are cut out of metal when I make the tail section.  First, I draw the curve on a piece of graph paper.  In this example I use graph paper with a 10 square per inch grid and I draw the tail section on it using a 1 to 10 scale.  In other words, 1 inch on the graph paper equals 10 inches on the metal.

The metal and the drawing will be measured during subsequent steps.  A good ruler is essential.  I keep a nice clean one on the drafting table and the other one is in the shop.  The one shown is a Starrett No. C316R with 32nds and 64th of an inch graduations on the back and 50th and 100th of an inch graduations on the front.  The graduation marks are a style that is popular in the aircraft industry.  They are very easy to read and this is my favorite.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 17, 2010, 12:18:52 AM
The part is drawn to scale on paper in the last post.  The metal is selected and a square or rectangle is made with tape around the area to be cut.  The tape is marked with graduations.  In this example I mark every inch on the the tape.  A grid is drawn across the part with a pencil.  The grid on the metal is a full size version of the grid on the paper.  It is ten times bigger.  One tenth inch on the paper equals one inch on the metal.

Now I look at the part on the paper and note where the part edge crosses the grid lines.  I mark those crossing points on the grid on the metal with dots of white-out.  The little dots do not make a perfect line.  They seldom do.  They give me a good enough idea of the part shape.  A flexible wood strip is placed over the dots and it is bent to resemble a smooth curve.  A line is drawn along the stick.  This represents the part edge.  Blue masking tape is placed on one side of the line and tan on the other.  This makes the line easy to see.  The part is sawed out of the sheet.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 20, 2010, 01:03:07 AM
A drill press used as a milling machine is shown on previous posts.  The very low price of this Chinese made Shop Fox vise was too tempting.  I bought it and I use it for milling.  It makes the job much easier.

This project is to make a nice polished billet aluminum tail piece for the new rear streamlining.  The cut outline is marked with punches.  It will be easy to see during the milling.  Two wires are placed at the top of the jaw faces to tilt them inwards.  This keeps the piece from moving upward during the machining process.  The vise is securely bolted to the table.  Plunge cuts are used to mill out the cavity in this part.  The feed screws turn during the machining process unless they are held in place.  I use bungee cords for this.

This third world method is great if a person is in no hurry.  The entire setup is not designed for milling and it is not very rigid.  Shallow cuts with a slow feed rate in aluminum are OK.  Deep cuts, high feed rates, and ferrous metals are best cut on a milling machine.  Accurate work is possible with patience and practice.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 26, 2010, 01:59:00 AM
It was time for them to go.  Old cabinetmaker and machinist tools covered by that dark thin hard rust of use and time.  Rulers with the numbers wore off and knobs with the knurling gone.  Tools I used for more than half of my life, and my father and his father, too.  My son, Josef, called me to say they are hanging on his shop wall and I could hear his son, Maximus, in the background.  A box of rusty old tools.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 04, 2011, 04:06:47 PM
The new tail section build is progressing.  This is tedious work with a lot of hours spent before any significant progress is made.  The next few posts will describe some of the revisions.

General rules for partial streamlining are given by Bradley in Chapter 4 of his book.  One says "The area behind the rider's legs should be filled out but this is limited by access and regulations."  The first picture is a fuzzy enlargement showing me sitting on the bike.  The picture was taken by Ray the Rat.  Note the space behind my leg.  I need some room around my legs to paddle around and to put my leg down to hold up the bike, but I do not need this much.  The second photo shows the finished bottom half of the new tail section.  The loose plate on the side is from the old tail.  This illustrates how the area behind the legs can be filled.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 04, 2011, 05:18:11 PM
just wondering if you ever saw this post Wobster.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,3553.0.html


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 05, 2011, 10:15:53 PM
Those are nice bikes.  The pointy one, in particular.  It gives me some ideas.  The last two photos look like Frank Kletchkus shots.

In "The Racing Motorcycle", Bradley says "Do not attempt to pull the seat section in too sharply.  If the air has managed to stay attached this far then it will surely separate at a steep contraction.  The seat should only approach a point if the riser's backside is small enough to allow the seat section to reduce slowly in the available length."

My Acura is too big.  A contraction from my bum to a sharp point in the available length would be to sudden and flow separation would occur.  The seat sides taper to the rear at no more than 10 degrees and the back end is truncated at a flat plate.  The 10 degrees is the maximum taper I figure that is allowed without separation.  This is not an ideal situation.  I make the best of it by minimizing the truncated end height.

There is a lot of power robbing turbulence caused by air passing around and under the lower part of the motorcycle.  The skirts are an attempt contain this turbulence and to release it in a sort of organized manner.  They are an attempt to reduce base drag.

One picture shows the tail right side up and it is upside down in the other.  Right now I am putting the skin on the top part of the tail.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 07, 2011, 01:06:33 AM
LSR motorcycle crashes are shown on u-tube video and in still pictures.  These are painful to look at and there are lessons they teach us.  One is that we do not want to be dragged along with the bike.

The tail could be built as a shell with an open gap between it and the bike.  The gap is blocked with sheet on this build.  There are no places on the tail to catch my boots if the bike flips me off.

Genuine crashing experience has shown me that the projection of the sewed on sole on a welted boot can catch on the bike and trap my foot.  My preference is a weltless boot like the Triumph one shown.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 07, 2011, 11:14:02 PM
The old tail was taken apart to build the new one.  The old one was redone once, already, before this.  Salt is sprayed up onto the tail bottom every year and lately I am not washing the bike until I get back to Oregon.  The salt is on the bike for several days.  A perfect corrosion test.  Body work aluminum is the only thing I looked at.

The outside is waxed with airplane wax a few weeks before I leave.  I like the aluminum body work to be nice and shiny.  The wax does not work well to prevent corrosion.  Lots of pitting and white powder on waxed areas.

The unwaxed areas, such as the inside, were coated with ACF-50 after I put the tail section together.  There was dark grey oxidized aluminum in between the plates in some areas but no pitting or fuzzies.  The ACF-50 is working well to prevent corrosion.

Keep in mind that I use a cold water soak and cold running water from a garden hose on these parts.  They never see hot water, a spray, or soap.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 09, 2011, 09:26:36 PM
This thing is done, finally.  Today it was weighed with the number plates and seat pad.  It weighs 20 pounds, for the curious.  I do not know how that poundage compares with a similar tail made from another material.  The pictures give a rough idea of the size.

This year I planned to do a lot more to the bike and not much more will be done.  The build will be on hold for awhile.  There is a small window in a teen's life where they are mature enough to grasp complex skills and ideas, yet they have not reached the rebellious and independent stage.  My youngest daughter is there now and she wants a motorcycle.  We are going to get my old desert race bike running and during the process she will help me rebuild the engine, suspension, etc.  During all of this I will show her how to operate all of the shop tools and machinery.

She plans to paint the bike pink.  Egad.  I guess it will be hers when we are done.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 14, 2011, 01:30:35 AM
A goal in the partial streamlining is to get the teardrop shape.  The widest part of the rear streamlining is at the seat pan just under my bum.  The widest part of the front streamlining is the fairing in front of the handlebar ends.  The handlebar ends are about ten inches higher than the seat pan.

Ideally, the widest front part of the front streamlining should be at the same height as the widest part of the rear.  This clubman bar will place the handlebar ends 3 or four inches lower than they are now.  I will rebuild the fairing so the widest section is lower, too.  This will make the front and rear wide sections closer to the same height, give the bike a more teardrop like shape, and help aero.  This bar is made by Biltwell, an American company.  It is very strong and well made.

This year's racing expenses are two rear sprockets, this handlebar, a new helmet, entry fees, and travel to the race and back.  All other costs are raw materials.  I did not plan this, but the concept of a partially streamlined special construction bike is working out well.  Before the recession/depression, when I had money, I bought the riding gear and did the expensive stuff, like alloy rims, the racing engine parts, carbs, etc.  Now, when I am low on dollars, I can do the big jobs that take a lot of time and do not cost much, like rebuilding the tin work, building an exhaust, fabricating an intake plenum, etc.  I figure I can stretch these low budget tasks out and it will be at least two and maybe three years before I buy anything that is costly.
 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: gearheadeh on January 14, 2011, 09:48:07 AM

This year I planned to do a lot more to the bike and not much more will be done.  The build will be on hold for awhile. Sad to hear this!  There is a small window in a teen's life where they are mature enough to grasp complex skills and ideas, yet they have not reached the rebellious and independent stage.  My youngest daughter is there now and she wants a motorcycle.  We are going to get my old desert race bike running and during the process she will help me rebuild the engine, suspension, etc.  During all of this I will show her how to operate all of the shop tools and machinery.

She plans to paint the bike pink.   Egad.  I guess it will be hers when we are done.

Why not post a build thread here for her? Call it something pink! :-D


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Geo on January 14, 2011, 11:34:25 AM
You are the Man, in my book!  Taking the time to work with your children and delaying what you would really like to do.    :cheers:

I have learned a lot from your postings.  Keep them up!

The build diary on the pink bike is a great idea.

Geo  - the car guy  :-)


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: octane on January 14, 2011, 01:09:06 PM
Bo ! ..as always; it's a pleasure reading you posts.


You might want to show your daughter this:

(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x214/octane98/knit.jpg)




...or, maybe not

.-)


.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 14, 2011, 01:41:25 PM
Unh, mmm, Lars - is this a sign that you're going off on a tangent?  Maybe a sign of your life style changing.  Let us know so we don't get the wrong idea.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: octane on January 14, 2011, 03:46:51 PM
Unh, mmm, Lars - is this a sign that you're going off on a tangent?  Maybe a sign of your life style changing.  Let us know so we don't get the wrong idea.
No, you haven't got the wrong idea.
I would never underestimate me female side.
As part of my life style change, I'm trying to get in contact with my inner knitter.

It's amazing how one can knit a motorcycle when on magic mushrooms.......yeah man.....er.....woman


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 14, 2011, 09:16:18 PM
We will make some posts.  The old bike is "Thrasher."  It was raced and ridden a lot for fourteen years.  It is well used.  Fixing it up real nice and reliable is to take off the gas cap, roll the bike away, and roll a new one under it, and screw the cap back on.  Its main purpose now is a learning tool.  She will put some flower stickers on it and learn to ride it when we are done.  I am saving a little bit of money and I will get her a better bike if she helps me to the end and is still interested.  Then I will ride Thrasher when we go out into the woods together.  My testosterone level is dropping with age.  I might, or might not, take off the flower stickers.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on January 14, 2011, 09:34:23 PM
Maybe it's just a little of the ol' hippie influence coming through. :-D :-D :-D

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on January 15, 2011, 01:03:33 AM
Peter, do u think there is any chance that the Old Hippy is trying to reform?

Do you think that next he will be using a CAD program and aluminum torch welding?

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 16, 2011, 01:13:04 PM
Freud, you discovered my secret!  Yes, a long time ago I was a hippy.  That was in pteredactyl times.  I have a yard full of rocks, sticks, and old bones for tools.  No need to spend money on anything fancy.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 17, 2011, 11:54:05 PM
Today it was cool and cloudy with breeze instead of wind.  A perfect day for putting on the clubman bar.  Club racers in England used their bikes for transportation and raced them on weekends.  It was easier for them to change from their street setup to racing configuration and back with this type of bar, rather than with clip ons.  Hence the name "clubman" for this bar.  The advantage of this bar is mainly psychological.  It is more natural to tuck down low when a person's hands are also low.  Installation was easy.  I cut 2.5 inches off each end to give the 24-inch overall width that I prefer.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 22, 2011, 12:50:57 PM
The other Team Go Dog, Go! modified partial streamliner is up and running.  It last ran at BUB in 2009.  Werner put a 175cc kit in it with a cam and I ported the head.  The picture shows it last night at arenacross practice in Salem.  The engine runs good but it smokes.  The oil level is OK and the crankcase breather is not plugged.  The bike sat for about 9 months after it was put together and it was never run since 2009.  Today I am going to spray some fuel injector and choke cleaner down the bore and let it sit for awhile.  Then he can start it and I will spray some cleaner in the carb while it is running.  Hopefully a stuck oil ring is causing the problem and this will free it.  Any suggestions are welcome.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 24, 2011, 01:04:40 AM
Two Model B roadster questions.  Sometimes I cannot figure out everything on my own.

My books discuss the original Ford drop axle with kingpin setups and they also show a lot about independent front suspension options.  Did Ford go directly from the kingpin arrangements to independent front suspension?  Were there some intermediate steps?  My books do not discuss these.

My plans are to run radials and I am a caveman kind of guy.  The info I have says it can be tricky and mental to get radials to work on front suspension setups other than the independent ones.  The exact reasons are sorta unclear.  Is independent front suspension the best for a beginning level guy who uses radials?

Any help is appreciated.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 24, 2011, 03:06:13 AM
.....surely they went Independent with king-pins then to ball joint spindles?......


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: RidgeRunner on January 24, 2011, 08:54:37 AM
.....surely they went Independent with king-pins then to ball joint spindles?......

Ford passenger cars yes, '49 kingpin/independent, '54 ball joint/independent.

                       Ed


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 24, 2011, 10:50:23 PM
Thanks, Dr and Ed.  An 50's vintage Ford independent suspension with ball joints would not be inappropriate on an old style hot rod.  I will look into this.  Thanks for the help.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 26, 2011, 12:50:44 AM
Keihin CR flatslide racing carbs will work on a street bike.  The carbs do not have chokes or enrichener circuits for cold starting.  It took quite a bit of fiddling for me to get them to work.

First, the spark.  The ignition system should be in tip-top shape for maximum performance.  A strong spark at the correct time will successfully ignite a mixture with wider range of air fuel ratios and gasoline quality.  This is critical with CR flatslides and the sometimes funky Oregon gasahol.  The battery terminals and the battery, engine, and coil grounds are undone, cleaned, lubed with dialectric grease, and retightened every year just before leaving for Bonneville.  New NGK iridium racing spark plugs are installed.  Nology coils and wires are used.  All of this keeps the spark strong.

The lights on bikes sold in the US are lit when the ignition is turned on.  This is an idiot concept.  Little bike batteries do not have the power to light the lights, run the starter motor, and create a good spark.  This is a worse problem with high compression engines.  An English light switch is installed so I can turn off the lights when I start the bike.  This is a big help.  I ordered the switch from London at www.jacklilley.com.

The battery was replaced every two years before I put on the flatslides and I was not picky about its quality.  Now I put in a new high quality battery every year and I trickle charge it weekly during the winter.  The flatslides need to be a bit rich on the starting mixture so the bike will fire up when cold.  This fat mixture can foul the plugs when the engine is warm and it takes considerable battery effort to start the bike.  The fresh battery is essential.

The next post will be about jetting.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on January 26, 2011, 03:35:29 AM
Keihin CR flatslide racing carbs will work on a street bike.  The carbs do not have chokes or enrichener circuits for cold starting.  It took quite a bit of fiddling for me to get them to work.


So are they CR's or FCR's
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 26, 2011, 11:30:22 PM
Graham, they are FCR's  - Bo


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on January 27, 2011, 10:00:47 AM
Regarding replacing the Batt. on a yearly basis......take a look at the new Lithium-Iron batteries like the
Shorai LFX we are using......Hold a charge for at least one year without maintenance....can be mounted in any position.....Ultra light.....longer service life....Safe-no explosive gasses...no lead...no acid...............


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: dadsolds on January 27, 2011, 12:05:03 PM
Bo,
about your gas-ahol- there should be a couple of stations that sell ethanol-free gas to street vehicles in your area. Check this link
http://pure-gas.org/
BGB


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 27, 2011, 11:47:31 PM
Thanks for the tip.  At first, the ethanol was a problem.  Now the bike works OK.  When I get the time I will write the second post I will tell what I did.  Flood damage repair is using most of my time lately. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 30, 2011, 01:42:48 AM
The first post on this subject described electrical system upgrades.  The new battery and light on-off switch are essential, based on my experience.

The main jet is sized for running at Bonneville.  The needle and cutaway are chosen using dyno runs to provide the best street running mixture at the elevation where I live (150 feet above sea level.)

The low speed mixture is set by trial and error.  First, the idle mixture screws are turned to a reasonable setting.  I never wrote the setting down.  1-1/2 turns out is what I almost always use as a starting point.  Overly large #55 pilot jets are installed.  Cold starting is great.  Hot starting is not.  Sometimes the plugs foul.  The exhaust gas has the nauseating smell of unburnt hydrocarbons.  The exhaust baffle is sooty.  I run these jets for a week or so to get a thorough idea about how they work.

The idle mixture screws are not touched.  One size smaller #52 pilot jets are installed.  Cold starting is OK and warm starting is better.  Less foul exhaust smell and soot on exhaust baffles.

Again, the mixture screws are left alone, and one size smaller pilots #50 pilots are put in.  Cold starting sometimes requires a blip of the throttle to make the accelerator pump squirt in some extra gas.  Hot starting is great.  No soot on baffles.

Mixture screws remain at 1.5 turns out and smaller pilots are installed.  Cold starting is a pain.  Lots of throttle blipping needed once it gets running.

The ideal pilot jets are the best compromise between cold and hot starting.  In my case, #50 in the warmer months and #52 in the colder.

The starting procedure is to turn off the light switch, not touch the throttle, and use the starter motor for 1/2 second only.  The bike will fire right up if it will start.  Cranking on the starter does nothing useful.  If it does not start, I try half second bursts again for a couple of times.  Fouled plugs are the probable culprit if it does not start.  I wait for a few minutes and try again.  Eventually I have always been able to get it running.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 30, 2011, 01:01:19 PM
This last carb related post compares the standard Keihin 36mm CVK constant velocity flatslides against the Keihin 39mm FCR flatslides.

The 36mm mixers are large enough for all but the most heavily modified engines in street use.  Dyno data for this Triumph shows the size of the larger carbs helps only at full throttle at the very high rpm.  These engine speeds and throttle openings only happen at Bonneville for a guy like me.  The vacuum operated throttle slides on the little carbs compensate, to a large degree, for varying altitude.  This is a very important feature in the western US where tall mountain passes are almost always between us and where we want to go.  There are plenty of jets available for the CVK's.  The CVK's are paid for when the bike is purchased.  These are their advantages.

The Triumph is not a powerful bike.  The way to go fast on the road is to stay on the throttle going into and out of corners and only shutting off completely, if at all, at the apexes.  The CVK's do not give the throttle control to safely do this.  The vacuum slides do not work in precise coordination with the throttle.  The acoustics of some cam and exhaust combinations will confuse the CVK's.  It is impossible to jet the carbs for the correct mixture when this happens.  The CVK's wear in use like Amals.  The needle jets and slides are especially vulnerable.  The float bowls need to be removed to change the main jets.  These are the disadvantages of the CVK's.

The FCR's are large enough to give flow capacity for heavily modified motors on the street and lightly modified engines like mine on the salt.  They give excellent throttle control for fast riding when leaned over in corners.  They are less susceptible to adverse acoustics.  There are plenty of jets available and they are easy to jet.  Screw on caps cover the main jets.  These are FCR good points.

The FCR's are more susceptible to altitude changes.  They lack an enrichener or choke and there is the starting problem mentioned in previous posts.  They are something a person has to buy and they are not inexpensive.  These are FCR disadvantages.

Both setups give similar fuel mileage when properly set up and the rubber parts work OK with racing gas or 10% corn likker/ 90% gasoline pump gas.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 31, 2011, 12:32:31 AM
It was a nice day and we dropped the engine.  Timing is so critical with children.  Usually it is the middle school years when they will work with a parent on these types of things.  This is important for the child.  This might be the only time in their life when they will be exposed to mechanical things.

Years ago I saw a show about chopper building.  A father and son were building a bike.  The old man was constantly yelling at the kid.  This is not the right thing to do.  A positive attitude is best.  Gretchen occasionally strips threads and rounds off bolt heads.  She feels bad about this and it is no problem.  We simply fix as needed and resume work.  Actually it is a good thing.  She learns how to get the job done when things do not go as planned.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 02, 2011, 01:43:00 AM
Children are individuals like the rest of us.  They learn how to do things in different ways.  A good method to teach them is to create a learning environment they enjoy.  One way is to have a project that the adult and child work on at the same time doing the same things.  My two girls like to do this.  Another situation is for the child to have an independent project of their own.  This was preferred by the boys.

Time is perceived differently by youth and adults.  An hour spent cleaning parts is no problem for me.  It can seem like eternity for a youth.  Usually I spend no more than half an hour to an hour working on the bikes with a young child.  We vary the tasks to keep them fresh and interesting.  The photo shows Gretchen welding up a stripped thread on a plastic part.

Young teenagers are going through stages when their brain circuitry is changing from child to adult configurations.  It is important to recognize this.  There are times when they do the craziest things and they are unable to grasp simple concepts.  It is best to ignore this and be positive.  They will outgrow the goofy stage, eventually.

My two older boys worked out at gyms a lot.  There were a lot of characters in those places and everyone got along well.  One of my boys said the people "check in their baggage at the front door."  In other words, the gym is a neutral place.  Teens can have a lot of problems like drugs, not doing their schoolwork, being knuckleheads, etc.  As much as possible, I try to temporarily forget about these issues and keep the shop a neutral place like a gym.

These are four thoughts about introducing kids to our world.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 03, 2011, 11:10:18 PM
Welding rods made from scraps and a flat tipped soldering gun were my plastic fixing essentials for many years.  This hokey method works to some degree.  Awhile ago I bought various materials and a Model 5600HT Mini-Weld Model 6 Airless Plastic Welder from Urethane Supply Company www.urethanesupply.com  A book was purchased from a local store, too.  It is published by Whitehorse Press and it is "How to Repair Plastic Bodywork" by Kurt Lammon ISBN 1-884313-37-X.  Proper tools and materials make for an easier and better quality job.  They are worth the cost.

The first task is to identify the plastic.  Some, like polyethylene, and easy to recognize.  This airbox plastic is not.  It could be one of many types.  It is time for the melt and sniff test.  Dents are melted in an unobtrusive area of the airbox.  The melting plastic has a distinctive smell.  Various welding rods are melted, too.  The odors are compared.  Melting airbox and TPO rod have a similar stink.  The plastic is identified.  It is a good idea to have a full selection of welding rods for identification purposes.

A weld contaminated by the wrong plastic can be weak or discolored.  The welder tip is cleaned by brush and drill and Gretchen is showing how.  The welder is cold so she will not be burned.  In practice it is hot when cleaned. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 05, 2011, 12:31:50 AM
The airbox has stripped female threads for a screw.  The screw hole is chamfered into a cone shape using an X-acto knife.  The base of the cone is on the outside in the direction away from the screw head.  A small piece of aluminum tape is placed between the airbox body and lid to prevent welding the lid to the body.  It is hidden in the photo.

TPO rod is pushed into the hole in the welder.  It is white and some is barely visible in the photo.  The rod melts and oozes through the hole and down into the melted plastic in the weld.  The welder is pushed around to mix the rod with the airbox plastic.  Sometimes I use a rod that is a different color than the base material.  This makes it easier to see when everything is mixed.

The last photo shows the complete weld.  The center shows the white color of the unmixed rod.  This is not a problem.  It will be drilled out.  Some trimming and finishing will be used to remove the extra plastic and the repair will be undetectable.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 07, 2011, 01:14:22 AM
A crack is welded in this post.  This repair procedure would be used to weld something new together.  The plastic is polyethylene.

Cracks in plastic are champfered just like cracks in metal.  A full depth "V" if all welding will be done from one side and two half depth "V" grooves if welding will be done from both sides.  Welding is hot and the welded area can sag.  Also, melted material will occasionally drip from the seam.  The stiff aluminum tape prevents this.  The red air scoop will be welded first from the back side.  The tape is put on the front side as shown in the photo.  Urethane Supply sells the tape.

The back side is welded in two passes.  Rod is melted into the weld during the first pass, any rod residue is cleaned from the welder, and a second pass is made to melt everything together.  The photo shows the second pass.  Note the spots of darker plastic.  This is overheated polyethylene and I try to minimize this as much as possible.

Polyethylene does not sand or polish well.  I cut the weld beads flush with the plastic surface with an X-Acto knife as shown.  The entire procedure will be repeated on the front side of the air scoop.

Awhile ago a fellow cleaned a weld area with brake cleaner and he welded the cleaned area.  Poisonous phosgene gas was produced and it almost killed him.  The lesson I learned is to use the proper cleaner.  The can in the photo is plastic cleaner.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 09, 2011, 01:40:17 AM
A piece of stainless steel screen is included with the welding kit as shown in the photo.  A small piece will be used when this broken polyethylene chain guard is welded together.  It is melted into the weld and it reinforces and strengthens the repair.

Large repairs are ugly when I initially do them.  The excess material is cut away with a knife.  Some rough spots and pits remain as shown in the photo.  A second welding session is done to fill the pits and to smooth out the rough spots.

This summarizes everything I know about welding plastic.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bones on February 12, 2011, 08:26:07 PM
Wobbly
       Been building 2 bikes with my son, one for me (500 Weslake) and one for him (yz 80 yamaha) He is now the offical team welder.
The learning curve is pretty steep at the moment.He gets a bit frustrated when I tell him to make a weld joint a neater fit.
I am having a great time teaching him and taking him to visit some of my racing mates. He seems to be enjoying it
I hope you and your daughter are having as good a time as Alex and I.
If all goes to plan I will bring the weslake to BUB.
Some shots of Alex and his bike
    (http://)(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/bonesracing/IMGP3899.jpg)
(http://)(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/bonesracing/IMGP3904-1.jpg)
(http://)(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/bonesracing/IMGP3768.jpg)
on the weslake.  chassis are similar
cheers   Bones


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 15, 2011, 10:38:54 PM
That young fellow tucks in real nice and tight to that weslake.  He looks like he is ready to ride.  That is nice of you to work with him.  My wife calls these "precious moments."

We took the bike apart and the frame, swingarm, etc. went to the painter today.  It will be walnut shell blasted, epoxy primered, and painted with urethane or enamel.  I do not know which is best.  Any advice is appreciated.  The bike will be a trail bike and see occasional use on the salt.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Geo on February 15, 2011, 11:21:11 PM
Wobbly,

I like what you are doing with the bike.  All of them. Some ideas I can take and apply top my car work.  Thanks for posting all your thoughts. 

Love what you are doing with the children. That really makes me feel good and I apply the same principals to my child.  We do not work on the car much but spend time on science and math.

I have found the two part paint body shops use for accident repairs strong and any color can be mixed to match.

All the best,

Geo


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 16, 2011, 10:30:45 PM
Science and math will help that girl.  A few years ago my oldest girl was in a college class and I had an hour or so to wait until she was done.  I wandered over to the engineering building.  The sight of it made me yawn and get a bit sleepy.  Inside, there were more ladies in the classes than guys.  They sat up front and looked interested.  Taking notes, too.  A big change.  When I was in engineering skool there were hardly any girls, nobody sat in the front row except for the occasional suckup, and in my case, I was not smart enough to listen to the lecture and write anything down at the same time.

The paint shop wanted paint codes.  I looked on the internet and found codes for Fire Red and Silver.  I gave these to the painter and I wandered around the shop looking at the cars-in-progress and the pictures on the wall.  Obviously these guys know what they are doing and more about paint than I do.  I said "Put on a good epoxy primer and the top coat that you think will work best.  This is not a show bike and it will be used on the trail and the salt at Bonneville.  The paint cost is a small part of the job.  Use the best.  Tell me when it is done and I will come down and get it."       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on February 18, 2011, 11:33:53 AM
+1 on the paint directions....they are the professionals!  I am building a Triumph Cub and think I have the rules figured that I will be competing in Modified Chasis - Pushrod Gas so I think my number plates should read 250cc M-PG.  Thanks for all of your advice and special tips. I am a novice when it comes to motor building. I've restored a few bikes but thought a slow-speed attempt might be worthy of my effort.

Its great to work with your children! I learned a long time ago that I must have been brought up wrong!  I had been conditioned to STAND AND TAKE IT when voices are raised in anger or frustration.  My wife abruptly leaves those situations........so I have had to learn to teach our daughters to have patience and understanding.  Somehow they have turned out OK and seem to have the know-how of when to apply the appropriate response to a given situation. My youngest rides with me and is hoping to buy her own bike.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 19, 2011, 01:49:24 AM
That number plate lettering seems OK.  There is a younger fellow from Iowa or Nebraska on this forum that is building a Tiger Cub or Terrier.  There have been some fast Tiger Cubs on the salt in the past.  This is an interesting project and I hope to meet you at BUB.

The British did lunar exploration just like the US.  This is a little known fact.  It was Wallace and Gromit.  Wallace is a cheese lover and he wanted to find out what the moon tasted like.  Their rocket technology has been a well kept secret until now.  Haynes, the technical manual publisher, has a new book that details all of the inner workings of the rocket including cutaway drawings and "meticulously researched detailed technical descriptions."  The February 2011 British magazine "The Classic Motor Cycle" has a little article about the book.  Wallace and Gromit, like many famous people and dogs, ride a Triumph.  There is an article in the same Classic Bike showing a recreation of their famous combination.

Team Go Dog Go has ordered a book.  Most things the team does are shown on the build diary, but not this.  Incorporating bits and pieces of space age technology into our build is best kept secret.  Listen for the big boom when the Triumph breaks the sound barrier.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: charlie101 on February 19, 2011, 02:54:37 AM
I got to warn you Wobbly, dont put a penny in any gas stove and dont ever let the evil penguin get hold of your Techno Trousers! :-D


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 21, 2011, 12:45:55 AM
I will remember that.

Is there a preservative to keep cast iron or steel brake drums and disks from rusting and not cause brake problems when they are used?  This will be used on a race bike that is stored in a humid climate during the winter. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on February 22, 2011, 10:17:00 PM
Paint the parts.........then soda blast and acetone for use.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 26, 2011, 12:48:38 AM
It is a small fuzzy photo buried deep in an obscure publication.  For some strange reason, having this little picture in the B'ville News means as much to me as anything else I have done.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Beairsto Racing on February 26, 2011, 03:08:48 AM
Congrats Bo!!  :cheers:

I enjoy following your build diary, thanks for sharing your experience and skills. The info is always positive and I really like that you make it a family effort.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 26, 2011, 11:22:41 AM
Whaddaya mean, "obscure publication"?  I was going through that very paper, saw that very photo, just about ten minutes ago.  Does that mean I'm "obscure", too?  Nancy, what do you think?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 28, 2011, 02:03:29 AM
Thanks for the compliment Mr Bearisto.

The frame is back from the painter.  They used an epoxy primer.  I asked for that.  Usually I use zinc chromate primer and I want to experiment.  The top coat choice was theirs.  They used urethane enamel for the color coat and clear over that.  The paint matches the original Yamaha Fire Red.

Years ago I had two Matchless 500 cc single cylinder bikes.  A 1948 and a 1953.  One was made at a time when chrome and nickel were scarce.  The rims, spokes, and almost everything was painted.  This worked OK.  The zinc plating is gone from a lot of the parts on this bike and they will be painted silver.  Its a budget thing.  The parts need to be stripped of rust before painting.

The wire wheel on the bench grinder works good for the big parts.  It is dangerous to clean the little ones on the wheel.  These grit impregnated bristle brushes on the drill press work good for the small ones.  I use them with a slow speed of 280 rpm or a moderate 560 rpm.  They are much, much, safer than a wire wheel.  The grey one is coarse, the orange one is intermediate, and the blue one is fine.  All are needed to do good work.  Usually I use the coarse one to remove the rust and the finer ones to polish out the scratches.  The drill press table is set at a height where I can rest my wrists on the table when I am holding the part against the brush.  This gives better control. Grease and dirt can load up these brushes so they do not cut.  It is best to clean the part before the brush work.  These are Nyalox brushes made by Dico products in Utica, New York.  I got them at the local Ace Hardware. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on February 28, 2011, 10:55:55 AM
Question Wobbly!!......seeing that you make your own fairings and you race at the BUB meet....why not build a Dustbin fairing for your bike?????....................................................................................


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 01, 2011, 02:13:25 AM
These Hinckley Bonnevilles have a tendency to speed wobble on deceleration.  Not just mine, my friends also have this problem.  The fairing weight makes it worse.  Some changes to the steering geometry, radial tires, proper suspension setup, and how I ride can manage the problem, but not completely cure it.  The weight of a dustbin might make the bike unrideable. This is what I worry about.  I get up to speed and I cannot shut the bike down without the death wobble. 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on March 01, 2011, 10:07:20 AM
OK. I understand......see you at the BUB.....


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 01, 2011, 11:53:23 PM
Bak, I have a problem and a plan.

My friends deal with the Triumph wobble when they street race.  One bought a pair of upper tubes from "Forking by Frank."  I am not sure if Frank's stocked these or if he had them made.  He installed them with "gold valves."  I am not sure what they are.  The tubes have thicker walls, they flex less, and they help him a lot.

The standard Triumph fork springs are too soft and they sag excessively.  I bought a set of progressive springs.  All "off the shelf" racing springs for these bikes are progressive.  I much prefer a stiffer than standard straight rate spring.  IKON in Australia built the rear shoks and they did a good job.  They make custom springs.  A set of heavier straight weight fork springs should be no problem for them.

There is a frame modification used by the folks that road race these bikes in the Thruxton Series.

These four front suspension mods, reshaping the lower part of the fairing to modern practice, and fabricating an airbox to fit the flat slides will keep me busy and out of trouble for this year and next.  This 865 cc engine has 70 horsepower and it can have 80 with some fiddling and bigger valves.  I want to spend a few years on chassis strength and aero before I monkey with the motor.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: stay`tee on March 02, 2011, 06:28:00 AM
These Hinckley Bonnevilles have a tendency to speed wobble on deceleration.  Not just mine, my friends also have this problem.  The fairing weight makes it worse.  Some changes to the steering geometry, radial tires, proper suspension setup, and how I ride can manage the problem, but not completely cure it.  The weight of a dustbin might make the bike unrideable. This is what I worry about.  I get up to speed and I cannot shut the bike down without the death wobble. 

   

Wobbly, i can see that you are attempting to cure the handling problem, and that  is the correct move,,, however, in the short term, have you tried pulling the bike down from speed by applying the back brake (back brake only) while still holding power to the motor, then slowly backing out of the throttle, only shutting the throttle completly off once the bike is below the "wobble" zone ?,,,
This method has always worked for me, both on the street and dragstrip, whenever a machine has got the "death shakes" or had a flat rear tire, :-),,,


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on March 02, 2011, 10:31:47 AM
Back in the 1970's I rode a Vincent with Brampton forks on the salt.....when I shut the bike down after
a fast ride (125mph?) it would go into a "wobble"....using the rear brake to drag the bike down and leaving some power on worked (as has been noted) needless to say I rode the bike only a couple of times.....
we changed the front forks to Vincent's later model....and had no more problems........we even got it up to
140mph


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 02, 2011, 10:55:22 PM
I will remember the back brake trick.

Today I looked at the Vincent Girdraulic fork in my old books.  I know that they work well, but I cannot figure out why.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 04, 2011, 12:39:54 AM
Today I called Forking by Frank in Evanston, Illinois.  They made the stronger fork tubes that my friend uses.  Frank's told me the original equipment Triumph inner tube wall thickness, and theirs, too.  Some quick figuring is needed to show if the benefits are worth the effort and expense.

The calculations assume the ability of the tube to resist flexing is directly proportional to its moment of inertia around an axis through the tube center.  This simple assumption will work for this application.  The old and new forks will differ in the inner tube inside diameter, only.  Their lengths, etc will not be changed.  It would be possible, using much more complicated math, to compare the flexural properties of a change in fork length and wall thickness.

The new tubes will resist flexural bending 19 percent better than the old ones.  This is a substantial increase in strength in an area of troublesome weakness.  I will order a pair.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on March 05, 2011, 02:52:01 PM
Good advice on the tubes...........since you are ordering a pair.........have you considered the length?  Maybe you would want to change the front wheel size (taller and more narrow rim) and adjust for frame height with shorter tubes. You may only want to run the rear brake. In '09 BUB I helped (block of wood) remove the complete brake system from the front of the electric bike. Next day they ran 10mph faster with no wobble.  Just a thought........you seem to ride it well!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 05, 2011, 09:49:48 PM
This morning our Triumph club had its monthly breakfast and I talked to people with experience.  The Triumph fork tubes are unusually thin for a bike of that weight and speed. The thicker tubes will be similar to what most bikes are using.  This year the stronger tubes are what I will do.  Cost is a big issue.  The fix can be done for between $300 and $400.  This I can afford.

The sun came out today and it quit raining for a couple of hours.  I almost forgot what the bright shiny fellow looks like.  Summer is on its way.  I hope it arrives soon. 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 06, 2011, 12:48:18 AM
The Old Scrambler has an excellent idea. A fork length change to accommodate a different size wheel.  In this case I would go to a smaller, rather than larger, front rim.  There is a 19-inch spoked rim on the bike with tube type tire, now.  A 17-inch rim has these advantages.  There are many more choices in high speed rubber.  There is less gyroscopic effect with a smaller wheel.  There are "mag" wheels in the smaller size, and this allows tubeless tires.  This would eliminate the tube weight and it would be safer.  Tubeless tires tend to deflate at a slower rate when punctured.

Simply fitting a 17-inch wheel on the front would drop the headstock an inch, it would steepen the steering angle, and trail would be decreased.  All of this would hurt stability.  Fitting the 17-inch wheel with an inch longer fork will preserve the current steering geometry.  Stability will not be compromised.  The fork tubes will be raised an inch in the triple clamps until I am able to get the money for the smaller wheel.  I will lower them when I fit the new hoop.

One problem I will have is the spring preload adjuster on the top of each fork tube.  There is no room for them when the tubes are raised an inch.  The handlebar gets in the way.  I must remove them.  This is a problem.  I run maximum spring preload when the fairing is on the bike.  This keeps the proper ride height with the added weight.  I use the minimum preload setting when the fairing is off.  This makes the ride a lot smoother.     

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on March 06, 2011, 03:00:57 PM
We all know that the basic law of physics requires reaction to change. If you are suffering fork sag......a simple solution is a 2-step process........heavier fluid and a slight overfill.  Spring preload will shorten the overall potential travel but they should never fully compress. Preload alone tends to lead to a bound spring situation which typically results in a wobble because no two springs are absolutely equal.  Your fairing is not only adding weight but it adds substantial down-force at speed. The effect has been measured by just adding a small fly-screen.

Regarding wheel and tire size...........I like tubeless for safety, weight, and availability.  I like tubes on skinny TALL rims for soft track conditions because they roll easier and ADD gyroscopic effect to counter any shift in weight.  Smaller wheels steer quicker but this is straight-line riding. Their is a wide selection of modern 21-inch tires with speed ratings of 130 and up.  Maybe I am wrong, or don't competely understand the physics, but dirt-bike riding and observing my fellow riders tells me that wire spokes and aluminum rims are lighter than cast.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 06, 2011, 10:30:07 PM
We got the seniority list at work last week.  Basically, they give this to us before the layoffs.  For once in my life being old is a good thing.  I am not at the top of the list, but close to it.  This always bothers me.  The first to go are the young guys and gals.  They are our future.  Heck, I would retire early, except I have children at home and an expensive hobby.  That 19-inch "paid for" front wheel is looking really good right now.  It will be on that bike for a looong time.

Frank's wanted me to send in a fork tube so they could match it.  No problem, I pulled one off.  The front wheel and fender need to be removed to install the fairing.  This is a perfect time to fit the new tail and reshaped front.  I did this, put on the monkey suit, and climbed on.  The front view is shown.

Several things are apparent.  First, I need to increase the front coverage.  This will be done next year.  Second, I need to tuck in my toes.  Third, look at my eyes.  They can barely see out from under my lid.  I cannot get down and lower and still see where I am going.  The helmet blocks the view.  Is there a good helmet that gives forward vision for a guy tucked down low?  See the side view.  I need to get lower.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: MC 1314 on March 06, 2011, 10:37:48 PM
I have the same 'helmet' problem, between my ever expanding belly and vision out of the helmet I have to keep my head up too far to see where I'm going. Is there a helmet that allows more vision? I tilt mine back just before takeoff which helps for a bit but vibration brings it down too quickly.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on March 07, 2011, 10:19:40 AM
I hear ya on the budget and work issues.............I started with a badly worn and abused Tiger Cub motor and a frame for $300.  Have added $700 in parts to the motor. The rest is salvaged from a swamp full of old bikes, a friend's metal bending skills, and then the tires and helmet.

Every inch you shave from your butt will lower the helmet at the same angle.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: octane on March 07, 2011, 03:09:35 PM
... Third, look at my eyes.  They can barely see out from under my lid.  I cannot get down and lower and still see where I am going.  The helmet blocks the view...
Naaaaaaaa, Bo my man:

Here's a comparative study between your riding position/helmet position as shown on your picture
and my riding position/helmet position:
I've made a line going from 'temple' to 'rear processed food exit'
and a line showing the angle of helmet position, in relation to above said line:

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/bo.jpg)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/sideview-1.jpg)

as clearly shown it IS possible to "..get lower.." and
I'm quite sure it IT possible with your present helmet, to "..still see where [you] are going..",
couse I am in fact riding with your very helmet on that picture,
( You were kind enough to lend it to me. Thanks )
Note the angle between the lines on the two pictures.
You need to get down lower and raise your head a bit.


.-)

Some sort of "pillow"/support on the tank, as I have, will help you get down
and still be confortable in that position


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: WhizzbangK.C. on March 07, 2011, 03:31:15 PM
Some of us have "issues" that prevent tilting our heads back very far (mine is a previous neck surgery limiting range of motion). This is one of the factors that prompted my sit down design. In researching this problem I did stumble upon a reference that said Simpson makes a motorcycle helmet with a raised eye port. Said it's not listed in their catalog but you need to call them direct to get info. I also found a new helmet on the market late last year called Shark Vision-R that claims to have the highest vertical eye port on the market, but couldn't find any info on certifications that would tell if it's legal to race with. You might Google it and give them a call to find out.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 07, 2011, 11:06:23 PM
Today I remembered that I could get down real low during, um, "testing and development."  After work I put on my street helmet and I can see just fine down low, as shown in the photo.  Then I looked for differences between the two helmets.  The Bell racing job has thicker padding and some sort of wind dam in the back.  This tilts the helmet down over my eyes when I get low.  The picture shows this.  I will look for thinner padding and no air dam on the back when I get a new lid.

The chiton-like back armor I use is shown.  The armor works OK with the street helmet.  The back edge of the Bell racing helmet is lower than the same part on the street helmet.  The back edge rubs on the armor when I tilt my head back and it pushes the helmet down over my eyes.  I adjusted the body armor lower on my back.  This helps.  After this I could see sorta OK with the racing helmet.  The picture shows this.

Ol Scrambler, my bony old butt is almost on the frame rails.  I cannot get any lower, tushwise, unless I do some cutting and welding.  This is a typical problem when using a production chassis.  K.C., I will look at those helmets.  Lars, I will limber up and try to get lower.  My problem is no neck.  I am built like a squirrel.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on March 08, 2011, 02:29:19 AM
but couldn't find any info on certifications that would tell if it's legal to race with. You might Google it and give them a call to find out.

Try the source
G

http://www.smf.org/cert


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on March 08, 2011, 05:55:31 AM
Sorry! I was the one who said to look at Snell, but that's for helmets. You shoud be looking at SFI ( sfifoundation.com ) under "Manufacturers". Right now only Safety Solutions and HANS are listed. They update the site pretty promptly so others may be added at any time.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 08, 2011, 09:34:51 PM
The next few posts will be about the fork rebuild.  This is covered in brief in the Triumph manual and in more detail in the Haynes book.  Things not in either will be mentioned here.

The forks have slider bushings as shown in the photo.  The wider diameter one is the upper bushing and it is mounted in the outer tube.  The narrower width one is mounted on the tube end.  They are teflon coated and they are durable.  I like to replace them periodically so as to minimize wear on the sliders and tubes.  Both parts last longer if the teflon coating is not worn off the bushings.  New bushings at 25,000 to 30,000 miles seem about right with oil changes at every 12,000 miles.  New bushings are recommended when new inner tubes are installed, like I am doing.

The upper bushing, seal, and dust cover in the picture are available from Triumph.  The lower bushing is not.  A person needs to buy a new inner tube to get a new lower bushing from Triumph.  The lower bushing, as well as the upper bushing, seal and cover are available from Race Tech at www.racetech.com.  They are the only source of the lower bushings that I know about.

Triumph had forks made by Kayaba or Showa.  It is easy to get things mixed up.  Frank's asked me to send in an upper tube so they could make a perfect match.  This is not absolutely necessary.  Franks has plans for most fork tubes.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 11, 2011, 12:41:11 AM
The stronger inner tubes and new seals and bushings are on order.  New fork springs? that is the question now.

Several years ago I bought a set of progressive springs and I installed them with a lot of preload.  This keeps the front end up and it works OK for LSR.  The downside of this is the progressive nature of the springs.  The springs have a very high rate when the forks are compressed and the ride is harsh on the street with the fairing removed.

Last night I ordered a set of straight rate springs that are 15 to 20 percent heavier rate than standard.  It is estimated they will be strong enough to keep the front end high with the fairing on.  Also, they are not progressive so the forks will compress farther and the ride will be smoother on bumpy streets.  The downside is the possibility the front end drop too much during shutdown on the salt and result in a speed wobble.

The springs are being wound in Australia by IKON.  They made the custom rear shocks and they did a good job.

This is an experiment.  The old springing is OK but I want to try a different concept and see how things work.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on March 11, 2011, 11:10:29 AM
Buy a good used Ceriani fork for around $300.00 to $400.00 and your problems will be solved.......It worked for my Tri. Triple...(1995..Bird)...............New parts..spring,seals, are still made by Paioli....
OR better yet try to find a set of Rickman Forks.....like we are using on our LSR sidecar.....hard to find
but great forks........
Find Ceriani forks on E-Bay for fair prices.................................................................................
Just a thought!!!!!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 12, 2011, 01:13:12 PM
The little Yamaha build is chugging along.  The plan is to restore the chassis first then to take apart the motor.  There is less loose stuff laying around the shop this way.  This 1986 model is an older bike.  The parts guys at the local dealer always seem to be in a hurry and they are not effective at getting the parts.  Plus, they give me that "look" that is normally used when dealing with the slow and retarded.  A older guy restoring a trail bike is not their ideal customer, I guess.  Now I buy the Yamaha goodies on the internet.  These are a few things I have learned.  A lot of us have older equipment and this might be useful.

Yamaha makes an incredible number of parts for the dinosaur.  Their stuff fits and is high quality so it is my preference.  There are several internet outfits that sell original equipment parts.  Chapparal, Cheap Cycle Parts, Bike Bandit, and others.  I do not know if any are better than the others.  Bike Bandit is able to find almost everything and ship it to me.  Usually a big box of parts arrives quickly followed by mailers with individual hard-to-find parts arriving later.  The Bandit cannot find everything.  There are parts shown on the Bandit parts drawings that are not on the bandit parts list.

The folks at Chapparal have a parts list with Yamaha parts numbers.  They show the parts that have been superseded and the new Yamaha parts numbers.  A click on the parts description on the Chapparal list brings up another screen.  This one shows all of the other Yamaha models that use the part.  Often Chapparal can find the hard to get piece.  If they can't, I type the Yamaha part number into my internet search engine.  Links appear and some are for folks who have the part.  Often these are people have a hoard of obsolete new or used parts. 

The internet is what I use for the old stuff.  The parts and accessories for the newer bike come from the local bike shop.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 16, 2011, 12:20:56 AM
The new fork inner tubes have a smaller internal diameters than the standard tubes.  Standard Triumph springs will not fit inside the 1.380 ID tubes.  It is obvious new fork springs will be needed in a smaller diameter.  Not so apparent is that smaller diameter rebound springs will be needed too.  These are the little guys that fit around the damper rod.  They also must fit inside the new fork tube.

The fork springs I have been using have a 35/50 pound-inch progressive rate.  The 35 pound-inch rate is too light and the front end dives too deep on deceleration.  The 50 pound-inch maximum rate seems OK.  The forks do not bottom.  The springs I ordered are 50 pound-inch straight rate.  This will keep the nose higher during shutdown.

The little rebound springs should have higher spring rates to match the beefier fork springs.  IKON is aware of this and they are making stronger new rebound springs.

Bak - Cerianis are good forks.  These Triumph ones will be good, too, when I am done.  There is an old hot rod tradition in America of the "sleeper."  I am not sure if people run sleepers in Europe or elsewhere.  This bike follows that theme when it is in street trim.  All sorts of extra work has been done to keep the bike looking like a production Triumph.  It does look like one.  Lots of the racing mods are hard to see unless one has a trained eye.  The forks are following that theme, too.  They will look like production items except for the Thruxton spring preload adjusters.  Thanks for the suggestion about the lithium battery.  I will get one sometime this spring. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 18, 2011, 12:22:49 AM
A news video about the Japan nuclear disaster said some workers are going in to fix the reactors with the knowledge they will die.  This tears me up inside.  It is hard to concentrate on LSR or anything else with this happening.

Sometimes we want to shorten our fork.  The method shown here is easy to do and it is reversible.  In other words, it is easy to make them longer again.  That cannot be done if the tubes are shortened to reduce the fork length.

Most modern forks are like these Showas.  There are long compression springs and short rebound springs.  The compression springs sit atop the damper rod pistons and the rebound springs surround the damper rods.  Often there are spacers on top of the compression springs.  This fork does not have spacers.   Instead, it has additional shorter compression springs.  Reducing the fork length is simply swapping the longer stiffer secondary compression springs for the shorter lighter rebound springs.  This will shorten the fork about an inch.

A fussy person would install a stiffer compression springs when this is done.  The shorter forks have less travel and stiffer springs are needed to keep them from bottoming.  I am not going to do this.  Approximately right is good enough for me.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 20, 2011, 11:00:55 PM
A lot of good photographers enjoy land speed racing.  Each has their own style.  We are fortunate.   

The new Norton push rod twin ran at BUB last year.  This was a big event for the factory and they had an official photographer, Phil Hawkins.  Phil was kind enough to take a picture of the Triumph.  It is a nice photo.  The composition, focus, and lighting are all first class.  We used it for this year's team photo.

There is an article about the Norton at BUB in the March 2011 English magazine "Motorcycle Sports and Leisure."  There is a shot of the Norton's back end on the cover and many in the article.  All are Phil's.  This magazine is on stateside news stands now.   

There are two professional photographers named Phil Hawkins.  The motorcycle Phil has the website www.ishootfromthehip.com   There are more Norton pictures there.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 22, 2011, 11:30:18 PM
The front and rear tin work is put on with the low bars to see how the aerodynamics look.  I can not turn the handlebar.  The fairing is in the way.  This is a minor detail I am going to ignore, but I am bored and need something to do.  Some cutting and other mayhem will ensue.

Lots of grooves are needed in the aluminum frame.  Somewhere around the shop are my air tool bits.  The only one I can find is this worthless looking thing with the little dimples.  I never used it before and I have no choice but to use it now.  It works wonderful and much better than the other bits.  The secret is to use kerosene as a lubricant to keep it from loading up with aluminum.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 23, 2011, 09:05:47 PM
The fork lowering shown a few posts previous is for the little Yamaha.  The Triumph will not be lowered.

Often I will try new things.  There are four things I look at.  First, the basic principles must make sense, second, I need to be able afford it, and third, there has to be an exit strategy.  Fourth, and most important, the change must not cause a bunch of problems in other areas.  The concept of inertia or speed sensitive damping makes sense from a theoretical viewpoint and it costs only a few hundred dollars.  What the heck, I will try it.

There are several companies that make fancy damping valves.  RICOR is in Henderson, Nevada, and they promptly answered my questions in an intelligent manner.  This is a custom application and I had a few.   Also, their modification does not require drilling the damper rod.  Going back to standard simply means draining the fork oil, removing the springs and the valves, and putting the springs back in.  The "exit strategy" is simple.  I chose RICOR Intimidators.  They are custom made for the narrower fork tube internal diameters.

The Intimidators are shown.  I also ordered extra shims and an adjusting tool.  They fit below the fork springs and on the top of the damper rod as shown in the photo.

The fork springs I am using are made for holding up the fairing.  They are stiff for use with out it.  Hopefully the speed sensitive damping will smooth things out when street riding and they will help make things a bit smoother.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 30, 2011, 12:11:34 AM
Engines are the most expensive part of racing.  Mine are expected to give me five years between builds.  My method is to stash away some money each year in the motor fund between the builds.  I have been stashing away a lot.  All of the easy stuff is done and the next build will cost major $$$.  The hoarding will give me the money I need when I need it.  A brilliant plan.  There is one minor flaw.

The oldest girl works hard as a waitress and she needed a car.  Bus service is cut back because of the depression and she could no get to school.  No problem, I dug into the motor fund for a down payment.  It was tough.  Then there was the new washing machine...  Many months later the motor fund was finally back up to some useful level.  Visions of big valves, titanium, mongo size pistons in billet jugs, all were in my daydreams at work.  Life was good.

Last week the youngest girl and I went up to Portland to retrieve the oldest girl at the airport.  We scheduled an extra few hours in case there was heavy traffic.  There was none and we got there early.  Enough time to nip into a bike shop and get some cartridge fork oil for the Triumf.  The youngest and I have been looking at some small bikes on the second floor for many months.  She is growing fast and wanted to see if she could straddle a bigger scoot.  She sat on various bikes and she picked one she really liked.  A brand new 2009 model.   It was time to go.  Then the salesman showed up.  He said "You want it?  $600 off of the 2009 price and 0% interest for 6 months."  She looked up at me with those big brown eyes and said "I'll take care of it papa."  "I really want to ride."  This girl does all of her chores and gets straight A's in school.  What else could I do?  The motor fund takes a big nuclear bomb hit.

Vaguely on the way home I remembered doing the same thing with my father.  He was a tough old cookie and I paid half of the $869 cost of my new Yamaha DT1.  He took care of the rest.  We bring the new baby home on Saturday and I will post some pix. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: MC 1314 on March 30, 2011, 06:12:02 AM
 Wobbly.. That will pay dividends forever! You certainly did the right thing. The only thing I haven't decided on is the color of my 5 year olds first Corvette..lol
Bob


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: dadsolds on March 30, 2011, 10:53:03 PM
What a dad!
Wait 'till she comes up the driveway on a liter bike.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on March 31, 2011, 05:19:32 PM
Wobbly,
I always enjoy reading your build threads.  A lot of people don't post simple fixes because they must figure everyone else already knows how to do it.  Not So!  

I have two comments.  One about your problem with being able to see out of your helmet.  When I ran my BSA B50 in '09 &'10, I had the same problem.  But by duct taping a firm chunk of foam rubber to the top of the frame (on top of the oil fill on the B50) I was able to rest the front of my helmet on that rubber, which forced my helmet up which allowed me to lower my head.  I picked up 2 mph with that change alone.

In regards to shortening the length of your forks (those pictured on the previous page - Yamaha?), which look a lot like the CB360 ones that I am using on my new build.  Funny how thoughts happen, but I was going to cut a piece out of the damper tube (irreversible), but now realize that all I have to do is add a spacer between the rebound spring and the top of the damper rod, which will limit the travel. Easy and reversible.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 31, 2011, 10:59:54 PM
Thanks for the compliment.  That foam trick is great.  It works.  So simple yet not obvious.

The tubes arrived from Franks.  The standard tubes weigh 3 lbs 1 oz each.  The thicker tubes are 3 lbs 14 oz.  Showa has bottoming blow-off valves that are pressed in to the tube ends.  I was worried about the Franks tubes.  Would they have the valves?  They do.  Franks installs their own as part of the standard price.  They are held in by circlips.  These tubes from Franks are a good deal when considering the amount of work and material it takes to make them.  Their service was very good. 

The tubes have 1.380-inch inner diameters and these are smaller than standard as mentioned in prior posts.  The Triumph upper springs will not fit.  Progressive Suspension makes some that will and Franks knows the part numbers.  The little topping springs fit around the damping rods and they are often forgotten about.  They must be smaller diameter, too.  Both the longer and shorter springs are being wound in AUS by Ikon.

The damper rods fit in the narrower tubes.  The damper rod rings do not and the end gaps need to be filed larger.  This is just like filing the gaps on piston rings.  The damper rods would need to be drilled to install some types of aftermarket valves.  This is not needed with the Ricor.  It must be specified on ordering that the valves are for a late model Triumph Bonneville with 1.380-inch inner dia tubes.  Otherwise, the valves will not fit.

Ricor specifies AMSOIL 5W fork oil and they developed the valve settings using this oil.  Fork oils in 5 weight, or any other weight, are not all the same viscosity.  There is a lot of variation between brands.  I could not find the AMSOIL locally.  Instead, I am using a high quality cartridge fork oil I can for a good price and I am adjusting the valving as needed for that oil.  It is important that I continue to use the same oil after the adjustment.  Use of another brand might mean a readjustment will be needed.   

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 03, 2011, 12:49:58 AM
The little bike came home today.  Gretchen is 13 and it will be a few years before she can ride on the street.  She has time to get dirt and salt experience first, like her older brother, Werner.  Tomorrow we take off the street equipment.  Also, we take off and store the nice new plastic.  Some less expensive aftermarket stuff will be put on for use in the dirt.  She is a happy girl and ready to go.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on April 04, 2011, 04:06:04 PM
++++ for Wobbly and Gretchen!!!!  Good idea about saving the original plastic.  The next owner will think it was ridden by a 'little old lady'.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 08, 2011, 11:28:35 PM
Now I have three bikes needing work.  The LSR bike, my dirt bike, and Gretchen's Yamaha.  It is crazy and I am trying to avoid doing things I do not need to do.

The fairing interfered with the low bars and I could not turn.  A fellow at BUB rides from the pits down to the start, makes a run, and circles back to the pits.  Left hand turns all the way, so I trimmed one side.  I could make left turns no problem.  I was done.  Then, in an Einstein-like flash of clear thinking, I realized I might need to make a return run.  The loop would be ridden in reverse and right turns would be the rule.  Drat.  Nothing is simple these days.  I trimmed the other side, too.  Now I can turn in either direction.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on April 09, 2011, 12:25:02 PM
ww,

you would need to turn to the right on a down run also;
if there were health issues w/ you or the bike.

franey


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 11, 2011, 12:11:20 AM
The 2011 build is done for all practical purposes.  The only things left are to finish the front forks, turn it back to a street bike for the summer, and then convert it to a lake bike for BUB.  Any speed gains this year will be due to better aero.  The pictures show last year and this.  A brand new custom cut 40 tooth will go on the back.  I need to remember "toes in, head down, and back straight" when I ride.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on April 11, 2011, 02:33:25 AM
Good luck Wobbly. It definitely has a smoother more streamlined look. Hopefully it will result in more speed. It might be worth doing a little tuft testing if you get a chance and have someone who can do the photography. :cheers: :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on April 11, 2011, 09:30:44 AM
Wobbly the Walrus (or should that be Lobby the Lobster?)

Great looking body work.  But what class will you be running in?  The tail section now protrudes beyond the rear wheel, so MPS is out.  Maybe APS, or is it FIM?  Or you could add a longer swingarm to get the wheel back to back of tail section, but that would be quite a stretch.

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 12, 2011, 01:00:12 AM
Pete, thanks for the idea.  It got my devious mind to thinking and I will do it.  This year I plan to make my runs for time and then, the next day, tuft the bike and run it again.  Scooter Grubb's photos are very good and his normal race photography shows the rivets.  I expect the tufts will be easy to see.  The sheet metal rework is half done.  Next year I am going to move the windshield back to close the gap between the back edge and my helmet, tilt the shield so the trailing edge is flatter, and redo the lower front so it encloses the wheel in a more modern shape.  Then it will be time for some more tuft testing in 2012.

Tom, the old streamlining was legal for AMA MPS.  The new is for FIM partial streamlining and the tail can extend up to 1/2 the rear wheel rim diameter beyond the rear tire and at least 135 degrees of the lower half of the rear wheel must be visible.  The shrouds on the sides could extend farther back and lower if I wanted them to.  The swing arm is as long as it can be and give reasonable handling on twisty roads.  It is extended 3 inches.

These bikes are never finished.  There is always something to do.



 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on April 12, 2011, 09:09:51 AM


These bikes are never finished.  There is always something to do.



 

 

how right you are.

like when diane will ask- "are you done in the garage , yet? "
and i answer- " i'll never be done "
after 6 years together , she's starting to get it.

franey


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 05, 2011, 09:03:03 PM
Type "stress concentration" into Google or another search engine and all sorts of interesting material pops up.  It is good to be familiar with these concepts when it is time to inspect parts.  The primary purpose of examining parts is to spot problems before they become disasters and most distress occurs first where stress is concentrated.

This little piston has been through a lot of races.  First, I look at the skirt for cracks originating at the edges with emphasis on sharp corners or other discontinuities that concentrate stress.  These are often called stress risers.  This skirt is well designed and there no significant stress risers or cracks.

Next I look for cracks around the gudgeon pin bosses.  None there.  Then I carefully look at the skirt.  There is a very small hairline crack 2 to 3 mm long about a mm in front of the penciled arrow.  A glance at the back of the skirt shows why this area is susceptible to cracking.  These is an abrupt section change between the thin skirt and the thick reinforcing rib.  Stresses are concentrated here.  Mechanical loads may be the cause, or thermally induced stresses from repeated heating and cooling, or a combination of both.  It is time for a new piston. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 07, 2011, 09:59:59 PM
Years ago there were no systems for monitoring or collecting engine data.  Racers used their senses such as hearing, sniffing, and feel; they looked at their results; and they examined their engine parts during tear downs.  One of my big regrets is not learning from them the finer points of seeing these indicators or remembering everything the old racers told me about them.  One indicator I remember to look at is the bottom of the piston crown, as follows.

uncolored - everything is cool, calm, and controlled in the combustion chamber
slight yellow orange and shiny - hotter than uncolored, not unusual
brown and shiny - hotter than yellow orange, not unusual for an air cooled race engine
black and shiny - hot in the combustion chamber, not unusual for a race motor but too hot for a street engine
black and dull - highly oxidized oil.  A very hot mama.  Trouble waiting to happen.

The little Yamaha piston is shown with its pin.  The crown is uncolored.  It is a cool runner.  The gudgeon pin also led a happy life.  Shiny and worn with no discoloration.  An amber color would indicate that it got hot and a blue color would say it got even hotter.  This helps me make tuning decisions.  The Yamaha can tolerate some performance enhancement without running too hot.

 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 09, 2011, 12:13:17 AM
One rocker arm adjustment screw end was pitted.  This indicates that the valve clearance was excessive and the valve was being slammed open and shut.  This stressed the valve train and I looked at all parts carefully.  This keeper has a what appears to be a horizontal crack in the conical hole about 2 mm below the top.  I have never seen a keeper crack in this location.  Needless to say, both keepers, both valves, and all four collets will be replaced, and I will pay more attention to keeping the valve clearances correct.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 09, 2011, 11:22:31 PM
The Triumph forks come apart in the typical fashion of Showa units.  The bolts on the bottom of the forks that hold the damping rods in place are removed along with the wire circlips that retain the fork seals.  The inner and outer tubes are repeatedly pulled apart like a slide hammer.  This loosens and pulls out the seals and outer fork bushings.  One of the seals was corroded in place.  It appeared that salt somehow got in there.  Imagine that.

It took a lot of violent slide hammering to separate the tubes.  The fork bushings got bunged up in the process.  The teflon coating was wearing off of them, too.  This is not good.  The bushings are steel with copper plating and a teflon coating.  The teflon keeps the steel bushings from wearing out the aluminum outer tubes and the polished steel inner tube.  New bushings are needed.

Truimph makes the outer bushings that are housed in the outer fork tube.  They do not supply the inner bushings.  The only supplier I could find for the inner bushings in GB or USA was Race Tech.  I ordered a set of dust seals, oil seals, outer fork bushings, and inner bushings from them.  Nothing they sent would fit the forks.  All was returned to them except the inner bushings.  I ordered Triumph parts and I will Mc Gyver the Race Tech lower bushings to fit.  These are split sleeve bushings as shown in the photo.  The original bushings will be used as a guide.

The part is blackened and some sharp divider calipers are set at a distance 0.5 mm wider than the original bushings.  The dividers are used to scribe a line around the longer bushing.  This method is useful when a line must be scribed that is parallel to a face.  See the picture.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 10, 2011, 11:39:06 PM
These bushings must fit tightly against the groove in the inner fork tube.  It is important to not trash the teflon coating or bend them during the next steps.  It is almost impossible to get them bent back to the correct shape.  The bushings are laid on a dowel and sawed to a length about 0.5 mm longer than the finished dimension.

The sawed bushings are sanded to the final length.  Coarse sandpaper is used first followed by finer grits.  I measure them periodically with my cheap dial calipers as I work them closer to the finished size.  It is possible to get them close to perfect with some patience.


 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 11, 2011, 11:57:42 PM
The bushing is sanded to size and the rough sanded edge is smoothed with an oil stone.  The bushing is put on the new fork tube and the end gap is measured and compared to the gap in the old bushing on the old fork tube.  A line is scribed on the new bushing, it is removed, and a file is used to get the correct gap on the new bushing.

One trick I use is to file down close to the final surface using my eyes with no magnification.  Then I do the final filing under the magnification and light of the lamp I use for parts inspection.  This results in much more accurate work.

It is tempting to ignore this step and to leave the gap small.  Some fork oil is trapped between the inner and outer tubes.  This oil flows in and out of the gap when the fork is compressed or extended.  I always make the gap the same width as it was on the original tube and bushing.  This assures the oil flow will be correct.  About 2 or 3 mm needed to be trimmed from the new bushing to get the right gap. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 12, 2011, 11:39:56 PM
The last step in the bushing project is the final fitting.  The bushing is put on the fork tube and the fork tube is clamped upside down in a vice.  Leather protects the tube from the jaws.  The outer tube is pushed on.  It is an interference fit.  The bushing is removed and the inside of the bushing is sanded.  The fit is checked again.  This procedure is repeated several times until the outer tube fits on the inner with a clearance fit.  The fit is checked on the other three bushings, too.  All bushings are tuned so they are barely large or small enough to provide a clearance fit.  Now it is time to put the fork together.

The fork will have thicker tubes and they fit in homemade triple clamps with 7 mm less offset than standard.  This has been a big project undertaken over several years and it has been a lot of work.  It is done to give the bike the stability and strength to carry a lot of sheet metal streamlining.  There is another way to do this.  Unfortunately for me, I learned about it last week.

The German company LSL makes triple clamps with 52 mm offset.  This is 3 mm less than the 55 mm Bonneville offset and 8 mm less than the 60 mm Thruxton offset.  This will give stability.  The LSL clamps are 200 mm wide.  This is 10 mm wider than the 190 mm standard clamps.  The LSL clamps can be made to accept the standard 41 mm fork tubes or stronger 43 mm tubes.  There is a picture of a brown tanked Triumph on their website www.clubman.de  It has the clamps.  The webpage is in German.  I contacted them in English by e-mail.  They promptly replied in English with answers to my questions.  Although I have not tried the LSL products, using their clamps with some bigger and stronger tubes makes a lot of sense.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 14, 2011, 02:56:49 PM
Any recommendations for a good quality satin black spray can motorcycle engine, head, and cylinder paint?  The brands I can find around here are Rustoleum, PJ-1, and VHT.  I could probably find more with minor effort.  I am looking for durability.  Cost is no big problem.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 22, 2011, 01:02:10 PM
The engine paint I tried is satin black VHT "High Temperature Motorsport Case Paint."  It applied well and seems to be tough.  Long term durability is not known.

Any recommendations on a motorcycle engine machinist?  It is an air cooled two valve single cylinder engine.  Pretty basic.  The jobs are a simple cylinder rebore, reaming valve guides and a five angle valve job.  As is typical, I procrastinated on porting the head until time is running short and I need the work done in about three to four weeks.  A person with a good reputation for quick turn around is best.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: dadsolds on May 23, 2011, 01:04:58 PM
I'd give Brent Faulkner at Hatch Engine in Aumsville a call at 503-769-7188. They've been around a long time, do aircraft, automotive, balancing, flowbench work and so on.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 26, 2011, 11:24:24 PM
The head was heated to about 350 degrees in the oven and I pounded the old guides out.  It was a hard push.  Then I did the port work.  It is a lot easier working on those little ports if the guides are out.  More room for fingers and sandpaper, etc.  Then I put the new guides in the icebox and heated the head to 350 degrees again.  I pounded them in with a brass drift.  It was a hard drive and I cracked both guides at the tops where the seals fit on.  I ordered a new pair.  How hot can a head be heated?  The oven goes up to 500 degrees.  I have gone up to 400 degrees a few times years ago but not more.  Any advice on how to install the guides? 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on May 26, 2011, 11:34:47 PM
When we were changing the bearings in the old Hewland gearboxes we usually used about 450 degrees. At that temperature the bearings would pretty much fall in or out.

I would probably build a stepped driver similar to a bushing driver to do the job.

Hope these suggestions help. They're based on my own experiences, others will certainly vary.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 26, 2011, 11:48:56 PM
Thanks, Peter.  You are right.  A snug fitting and properly sized guide driver would evenly distribute the load across the valve guide top.  My drift sometimes did not hit square and it concentrated the impact on one part of the top edge.  More heat will help.

This seems like a good job for the machinist who will be boring the jug and cutting the valve seats.  He can quickly make up a proper driver if he does not have one.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 04, 2011, 12:13:19 AM
A few posts about the humble retaining ring.  There was a broken one laying at the bottom of the engine when I took it apart.  It was used to retain a spinning or sliding component on a shaft.  An external retaining ring fits in a groove around a shaft and it was one of those that let go.

Right now I am looking at the broken ring.  Where it came from is immaterial at this time.  The goal is to look at the ring and read its story.  Its condition will tell me a lot.

First, I look for wear.  A worn ring that has lost a lot of metal is weak and easy to dislodge or break.  The ring to the right in the first picture has lost a lot of metal.  It was replaced during a periodic inspection before it failed.  My broken ring has very little wear.  This is not the failure cause.

Second, I look for discoloration or signs of heat.  Is the ring annealed by heat and easy to bend?  An overheated ring that has lost its temper is weak and easily dislodged.  My broken ring does not show signs of overheating.

Third, I look for distortion such as necking near the break or bending.  This would indicate a sudden load stretched the ring through elastic and plastic deformation until it finally was pulled apart.  The parts of my ring are not bent or stretched.  There is no necking near the break.  Nothing indicates it was pulled apart.

Fourth, was the ring put on the shaft backwards?  These rings are stamped from steel plate.  There is a face with a rounded edge and the other face has a sharp and square edge.  The loads on the ring should push the sharp edge toward the side of the groove on the shaft.  The wear marks tell the story.  The wear mark on the sharp face should be at the inside edge of the ring.  This is the reaction wear mark.  The ring to the left in the first picture shows a wear mark on the inside of the sharp face, like it should.  The second picture shows the rounded sides of two rings.  The wear marks are on the high points in the middle of the rings.  These are from the spinning gears and they are the load wear marks.  The loads are being applied to the correct faces on these two examples.  My broken ring was installed correctly.

Fifth, the process of elimination indicates that my ring was not worn out, broken from some sort of massive load, overheated, or installed backwards.  Metal fatigue from a cyclic load was the failure cause.  The engine shafts and other parts will be examined in the next post. 



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 05, 2011, 12:22:48 AM
The broken ring is shown in the first picture.  The engine is broken down and cleaned and the broken ring fit on the kick starter shaft.  The groove is worn and the edge carrying the load is rounded.  This part must be tossed.  The new retaining ring will not have adequate support.  A new shaft and the original equipment Yamaha retaining ring is ordered.  They arrive and the shaft is measured.  The outside diameter is 16.89 mm, the groove inside diameter is 15.95 mm, and the groove is 1.22 mm wide.

"external retaining ring" is typed into a computer search engine.  There are many charts on the manufacturer's websites with application charts.  It is easy to determine this is a 17 mm nominal diameter shaft and the groove is cut for a standard duty shaft ring.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 05, 2011, 01:00:57 PM
Now I am on the internet looking for a retaining clip with an increased 2nd moment of inertia.  This is often called the area moment of inertia.  All us backwoods guys do this.

There are two types of heavy duty retaining clips in my style.  One type conforms to Deutsche Industries Norm (DIN) standards.  Dimension T is much greater but dimensions S are not much different.  See attached chart for descriptions of T and S.  The formula shows that a thicker T helps and greater dimensions S help a lot more.

The other type meets American National Standards Institute (ANSI) standards.  It has a thicker T and also greater minimum and maximum S dimensions.  This is what I will use and I order a couple in the strong carbon steel.  Always, I use OEM or reputable manufacturer retaining rings.  A ring of unknown pedigree is like a blind date.  You might get lucky.  Chances are you won't.

The clips arrive and the T dimensions are too big to fit in the groove.  This is anticipated.  I rub one of the rings across some sandpaper to take off a few hundredths of a mm so it will fit.  This little rascal is quite a bit stronger than the original as shown by the math on the attached.

There you have it, my circlip trick, Part 1.  There are many uses for it.  Gear clusters and shift linkages are some.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 07, 2011, 12:19:40 AM
Part 1 was to install a stronger retaining ring.  That cures the symptom and not the problem.  More than 40 years ago I read some books about a fellow that left his body and witnessed life from the perspective of a fly on the wall.  He made some observations and went back into his body.  Powerful drugs aided this transformation.  Carlos Casteneda was the author, I think.  My memory is bad for some reason.  Anyway, I make myself small and look at life from the retaining clip's view.  I use my imagination and a bottle of Russian beer.

Fatigue is the problem here.  It can be reduced by lessening the load, reducing the number of load cycles, or keeping the retaining ring in constant tension.  In other words, a ring that is a loose fit is subject to tension and relaxation during a load cycle.  This contributes to fatigue.  A ring that tightly grips the shaft throughout the load cycle does not relax and it is less susceptible to fatigue.

An aluminum part slides along the shaft when the kick start is used.  It is a loose sliding fit on the shaft and it is worn where it contacts the circlip.  The hollowed aluminum part face tries to bend the circlip out of the groove.  This explains the rounded back edge of the groove.  I hunt around in a can of washers and find a high quality steel one that is a tight sliding fit on the shaft.  Then, I cut it to the same outside diameter as the aluminum part and I put some grooves in it to match the part.  Finally, I remove metal from the aluminum piece so the length of the washer and the aluminum part is the same as the original piece.

One thing to remember.  The face of the retaining ring with sharp edges should be forced by the load against the groove face.  The same with the washer.  The face with the sharp edges should be forced by the load against the retaining ring.  I put aluminum part on the shaft with the new washer on top of it.  The washer is positioned so the sharp edged face is pushing on the retaining ring.  Now a nice and flat piece of steel pushes evenly on the beefy retaining ring.  The forces trying to bend the ring out of the groove are greatly reduced.  There is less chance of fatigue.  This fixes the problem so it will not happen again.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 26, 2011, 12:59:29 AM
This little red and white bike has been keeping me busy with new paint and a rebuild from end to end and top to bottom.  It is done.  Now I can start back to work on the salt bike.

In SoCal I rode 500's in the desert and I took one big Yamaha with me when I moved to Oregon.  The club in Oregon I belonged to built and maintained trails in the woods.  Lots of times I had to lift the bike over logs, pull it out of bogs, push it up muddy hills, etc.  The 500 weighed too much.  I sold it and bought this little bike new in 1986.  Lots of riding and one big race every year was the routine with a mix of enduros, ISDE qualifiers, and desert races.  I won several bronze and silver medals, but no gold ones.

Several years ago I entered the China Hat 100 desert race.  There is a cinder cone on the course that looks like a Chinese coolie hat, hence the name.  Desert racing is not for a person with sense or the ability to think or reason.  Often times the ground is frozen and slick or icy.  There are barbed wire fences all around and abandoned mine shafts.  There is a lot of riding flat out in top gear in the dust.  Sometimes a fellow cannot see where he is going.  I was zipping along and an aggressive pine tree jumped right out in front of me.  I tossed the bike to the left and it went around one side of the tree.  I went around the other.  Totally smooth and painless - until I hit the ground.  Then it really hurt.  I found my glasses and the bike, restarted, and finished the race.  Neither the bike or myself have been completely the same after that.  I was 50 years old at the time and I decided to find a safer hobby, like LSR.  The bike sat and I rode it two or three times.  It ran bad, had a serious oil leak, and handled like the frame was broken.  I could not sell it for some reason.  Now my youngest girl wants to ride.  Tomorrow will be the first time we both ride together. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: octane on June 26, 2011, 07:39:54 AM
I read some books about a fellow that left his body and witnessed life from the perspective of a fly on the wall.  He made some observations and went back into his body.  Powerful drugs aided this transformation.  Carlos Casteneda was the author, I think.  My memory is bad for some reason.  Anyway, I make myself small and look at life from the retaining clip's view. ...

The above just reminded why I love reading your posts



...and again:

I was zipping along and an aggressive pine tree jumped right out in front of me.  I tossed the bike to the left and it went around one side of the tree.  I went around the other.  Totally smooth and painless - until I hit the ground. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 27, 2011, 12:19:56 AM
Thanks for the compliments, Lars.  This forum is a comfortable place for me.  Often I write the goofy thoughts I think without worrying about it.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on June 27, 2011, 08:33:32 AM
WW, you've got it -- the essence of writing for others.  They'll get bits and chunks of good information as well as discovering that it's fun to read and learn said stuff.  Well done -- on the writing, too, as well as on the red and white bike for your daughter.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 28, 2011, 12:52:29 AM
Actually, Slim, the red and white old bike is mine.  The new one is hers.  We rode about 15 miles with short trails and longer road sections.  Speeds up to 30 mph on the roads.  We got back to the truck and were packing.  She said "I tried to keep up with you and my bike was going as fast as it would go."  It took about ten minutes for this to sink in.  I asked "What gear were you in, second, third?"  She said, "First gear papa.  I am afraid I will crash if I shift into second.  The bike just will not go as fast as you."  Some inner voice tells me the new engine is broken in.  She changed the oil this evening.

The forks are ready to be put together.  One picture shows the damper rods.  The inner springs are from IKON and they are custom made to fit in the narrower inside diameters of the stronger tubes.  The damper rods are unmodified OEM.  There are black plastic rings on the damper tube ends.  They are OEM with the end gaps enlarged so they will fit inside the new tubes.

The other picture shows the stronger tubes from Forking by Frank.  The dust seals, oil seals, circlips, and upper bushings are all new OEM.  The lower bushings are fabricated from some Race Tech parts.  The silver washers are OEM.

The inner tubes insides are coated with brown funk as seen on the paper towel.  This is cleaned out before assembly.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 30, 2011, 12:35:44 AM
These goodies fit inside the inner fork tubes.  The front end dives during shutdown and this causes stability problems.  The old springs were progressive wound and the softer upper spring coils were compressing and allowing the front to drop.  These custom wound springs by IKON are stiffer springs and straight wound.  There are no softer coils.

The old T-100 fork caps had no spring preload adjustment.  These caps from a Thruxton have about 20 mm of preload adjustment and they are interchangeable.  Plans are to run minimal preload on the street and greater preload on the salt.  The preload adjustment screws stick into the tops of the springs and do not work correctly unless disks are installed between them.  The disks here are valve adjustment shims from a Honda.

The motorcycle chassis with rider has lots of mass and it moves slowly in response to external forces.  The bike wheels are small and light and they move quickly.  The mushroom looking things are Ricor Intimidator fork valves and they take advantage of the different movement rates.  Slow chassis movements are damped and quick wheel movements are not.  This allows the suspension to absorb road shocks, and at the same time, keep the bike from wallowing around.  They were custom made for this application.  This is intended to help reduce front end dive.  The tool and shims between the spring are for adjusting the Intimidators.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 04, 2011, 12:28:57 AM
A lot of testing has been done these last few days to tune in the fork oil weight, oil height, spring rate, and spring preload.

First, the oil.  The standard Triumph fork oil is 10 weight and the compressed fork tubes are filled up to 120 mm of the tube tops.  The Intimidators will not work with 10 weight and a lighter oil is needed.  Ricor used Amsoil 5 weight "Shock Therapy" when they calibrated the Intimidators.  They recommend this oil, preferably, or another brand of 5 weight.  Money is tight around here and I had a full can of Yamaha S1 suspension fluid on the shelf.  It is either 0 or 5 weight oil for cartridge suspensions.  In it went.  The tubes were filled within 140 mm of the tops.  This was a height recommendation given to me by Progressive Suspension years ago.  The Intimidators work great with the Yamaha oil and this oil level.

Second, the racing springs.  The custom IKON spring is 0.9 kg/mm rate and it is 20.5 inches long.  This is about 51 pounds per inch, roughly.  I tried them with the Thruxton adjustable caps set at minimum preload.  The fork topped out when crossing over bumps.  I used the standard Triumph T-100 fork caps next.  This reduces the spring preload 0.578 inches and the topping occurred much less often.  The suspension is stiff but tolerable.  Just like an old time cafe racer.  These springs will work well with the fairing at Bonneville.  I will use them there.

Third, the street springs.  Advice I had about the Intimidators was to try them with softer springs than I would normally use.  A set of progressive Suspension #11-1126 springs fit in the tubes.  These are 35 pound / 50 pound progressive springs.  They were a bit soft for me based on past experience.  I install these progressive springs the opposite of most people.  The open coil is toward the wheel.  This is what goes on top of each spring after some experimenting:  a plain washer, a 1.577 inch long spacer, another plain washer, the Honda valve shim, and the Thruxton adjustable cap. 

Fourth, suspension settings.  The back end has a set of IKON shocks with progressive springs and adjustable damping and preload.  Salt flat settings are maximum damping and minimum preload on the shocks.  The front is not adjustable.  Street settings are to set the fork spring preload to match the shock spring preload.  Full preload on the shocks means the preload adjusters on the forks are screwed in all the way, as an example.  I also try to set the shock damping to match the fork damping.

Does it work?  Most of the freeways around here are concrete and the on and off ramps are asphalt.  The seams between the two can get ratty and a person has to cross the seams at an angle to get on and off of the freeway.  This could be a scary moment with the old forks.  Sometimes they flexed and the front wheel did not go exactly where it was supposed to.  No problem now.  The new forks are noticeably stronger.  This will be a very big help on the salt.  There are rough places on the streets around here that I steer around.  Now I do not need to.  The Ricor valves allow the forks to respond to these bumps and the ride is much smoother.  The bike holds a line much better when cornering on rough pavement.  These modifications are worth the cost and trouble.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on July 04, 2011, 06:01:49 AM
You should title this "Fork Rebuild 101" and submit it to the Rico people.  Great explanation.  I have some Gold Valve Emulators in my CB350 race bike that I've never set up properly.  Now I'm inspired -- if only I had more time.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: dadsolds on July 04, 2011, 12:49:35 PM
Wob,
I really enjoy your posts about selecting modification options.
About your fork oil, here is an interesting article about damping with a really helpful table at the bottom.
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm
It seems not all fork oils are created equal, or even comparable by viscosity weight rating.
Hope to see you and your team at Bub!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 06, 2011, 01:12:43 AM
Tom, these Ricor valves are adjusted by adding or subtracting shims with different thicknesses and changing the fork oil weight works, too.  I am not sure how the gold valves work, but sometimes changing to a different weight oil will make a difference.

DadSolds, thanks for the article.  I buy stuff on clearance and sale and these handy charts will help me select oils similar to what the is in the fork now.

The article attached to DadSolds post has a link to a discussion about springs.  The author does not prefer progressive rate springs for many reasons.  My experience is similar and this is something I did not mention in the suspension post.  The bike uses progressive springs front and rear for the street setup.  These springs work well with varying loads, such as me alone or with my wife, camping gear, crab pot, crab pot and camping gear, etc.  Properly tuned straight rate springs always have given me the best results for race or dirt bikes when the load is the rider and it does not change.  The bike would be setup with straight rate boingers if racing was all that I do.

Dyno work is scheduled for the morning of the 14th.  This should be an interesting year.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on July 09, 2011, 05:51:04 PM
Great Stuff Wobbly...............See ya at BUB........


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 15, 2011, 12:39:58 AM
Months ago I reserved a few hours at the dyno.  The carburetion was a little lean last year and I want to make sure it is correctly adjusted.  Also, I need to know the horsepower for setup purposes such as picking the right sprockets.  Another goal is to do "A-B-A" testing to figure out the best header pipes for an exhaust system I will build this winter.  The procedure is to test system A, then setup B, then A again.  System A is the larger diameter headers with no cross-over pipe on the Arrow system and B is the Triumph smaller diameter headers with a cross-over.  The Arrow mufflers would be used on both for the comparison

The bike was hard to start.  The battery seemed to be low.  It started and off I went to Portland.  Halfway there I took a break and the bike was even harder to start.  Odd.  Finally I got to the shop and prepared the bike for the dyno.  It would not start.  The charging system was not working and the regulator/rectifier was the culprit.  It is the finned thing under the headlight and when it failed some wires in the harness overheated and their insulation burnt.  The harness costs three times as much as the regulator and it is on backorder from England.  The mechanic says this failure is very uncommon on Bonnevilles, and when it happens, there is often expensive damage to other parts.  Lesson 1, pay attention to this part.

Every year I do a charging test during the annual service.  I mentioned that during last years test the charging voltage dropped when the rpm increased.  This did not bother me because the drop was not enough to result in a discharge.  The mechanic said the voltage should not drop.  He said it is typical for these components to gradually fail and periodic charging tests can spot trouble before it becomes expensive.  Lesson 2, plot graphs of voltage and amperage at various rpm when the system is working OK.  Check, with a comparison against the graphs to make sure the thing is working annually and before long trips.

These components convert excess alternator output into heat.  Normal operating conditions are a bike at moderate rpm with the lights on.  There is not a lot of excess current and heat in this application.  In this example there is a nut riding the bike for miles at a time at extremely high rpm with no lights.  There is a lot of extra current and resultant heat.  Lesson 3, land speed racing puts a lot of stress on this part   Keep an extra one at hand.  This winter I will carefully repair the old harness and keep it, too.

More schooling from the college of experience, this is.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: gearheadeh on July 15, 2011, 08:47:14 AM
Wobbly, I really appreciate it when you have the guts and honesty to make posts like these. :-)


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 17, 2011, 01:26:22 AM
Well, it is a diary and we have good days and other kinds of days.

The BUB pre-entry list is posted.  It seems I need the rocket backpack in a serious way.  Lowering the windshield, a new tail section, and a tight tuck will not be enough for this year.

The mechanic gave me the choice of voltage regulator replacements.  One is the Triumph original equipment shunt regulator.  These types get hot during operation.  The other is a mosfet regulator.  See www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com  They run a lot cooler.

Looking at the situation from a thermodynamics viewpoint, the heat dissipated from a hot regulator is wasted energy that could be used for other purposes, like going faster.  Viewing the situation from a common sense standpoint, the OEM regulator did not give stellar performance.  It was an easy choice, the mosfet will be the one.  Mosfet is metal-oxide-semiconductor-field-effect transistor.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: MC 1314 on July 17, 2011, 08:18:36 AM
Wobbly.. I could not find the Bub pre-entry, do you have a link?
Thanks
Bob


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on July 17, 2011, 06:17:36 PM
The mechanic gave me the choice of voltage regulator replacements.  One is the Triumph original equipment shunt regulator.  These types get hot during operation.  The other is a mosfet regulator.  See www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com  They run a lot cooler.

Looking at the situation from a thermodynamics viewpoint, the heat dissipated from a hot regulator is wasted energy that could be used for other purposes, like going faster.  Viewing the situation from a common sense standpoint, the OEM regulator did not give stellar performance.  It was an easy choice, the mosfet will be the one.  Mosfet is metal-oxide-semiconductor-field-effect transistor.   

Good choice WW
The mosfet ones tend to work a lot better and last longer
I see a lot of regulators where the smoke got out and burnt out AC wires from the stator to the regulator
Usually around any sort of connector or plug.
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 18, 2011, 12:46:07 AM
Bob, it is on the 2011 BUB Speed Trials website in the "News" section.  It starts with RWB, then AMA, and finally FIM.

Grumm, it did that.  The harness was toasted with most damage near the connectors, like you say.  The mechanic told me to always check and clean the connectors.  The harness is not cheap, somewhere over US $600.  My mind went numb and I do not remember the exact price.  This winter I will carefully take apart and rebuild the old one and keep it as a spare.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: MC 1314 on July 18, 2011, 09:15:34 AM
Thanks Wobbly
I found it, poor sight disadvantaged senior citizen that I am. Gonna be fun, I finally have competition! I volunteer so will not run till things slow down, likely the last day so I will know what to shoot for.
Bob


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on July 18, 2011, 04:07:13 PM
I usually just build a new sub harness
There is only usually five or six wires

So I just run the three yellow wires straight from the stator to the regulator and leave the old ones in the loom
because they don't go anywhere else. It's pretty rare to have to replace the earth and B+ wire
The only other thing is corrosion. If you see it , cut it out. And don't re use corroded plugs, no matter how clean they look
That is usually where the heat starts in the yellow wires.
My boss likes to either run the stator wires all the way to the reg with no joins or hard solder them together so there are no plugs
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 20, 2011, 12:51:24 AM
Grumm, thanks for the tip.  Corrosion was a problem and the subharness would be my fix if I would have known about it.  The bike is in the shop and they ordered the parts so I am committed to getting it fixed there.

One of my friends is a bus mechanic and he recommends "Weatherhead" connectors.  They use them under buses where they are sprayed with road salt laden water.  The connectors seal out the water and prevent corrosion.  This winter I will make a subharness for the wires between the regulator and alternator.  All joints will be soldered and there will be one weatherhead connector between them.

There is some gravel road between our house and Bonneville.  Rocks are picked up by the tires, they hit the bikes, and they chip the paint.  This weekend I made some rock guards.

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on July 20, 2011, 03:33:08 AM
Grumm, thanks for the tip.  Corrosion was a problem and the subharness would be my fix if I would have known about it.  The bike is in the shop and they ordered the parts so I am committed to getting it fixed there.

One of my friends is a bus mechanic and he recommends "Weatherhead" connectors.  They use them under buses where they are sprayed with road salt laden water.  The connectors seal out the water and prevent corrosion.  This winter I will make a subharness for the wires between the regulator and alternator.  All joints will be soldered and there will be one weatherhead connector between them.


The weather proof connectors are good, however, they don't really handle the sort of wattage that is generated by the alternator
I would love to be able to offer some alternative, but I haven't found one yet
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 27, 2011, 08:09:51 PM
It is vacation time and Gretchen and I are on the road.  Everyone else is in summer school or too busy.  Two people and two running bikes with lots of time and a big country.

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 28, 2011, 11:05:55 PM
Most of us drive by various mountain ranges to get to Bonneville, Elmo, the Black Rock desert, etc.  The mountains do not look impressive from the desert floor and we get the impression that they are one more part of a vast and arid wasteland.  Many ranges such as the Rubies and Humboldt are tall enough to harbor temperate forests and alpine meadows.  Every year after the BUB meet we stay for a day or two in the Humboldts to wind down and relax.

This picture shows an ice field on the top of Bidwell Mountain in the Warner range to the west of the Black Rock Desert.  This was a wet winter and the lakes are full and ice and snow will remain on the mountain tops through the summer.  The elevation is around 8,000 feet.  A visit to any range of these tall mountains is worth adding a few days to a trip.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 29, 2011, 10:04:16 AM
The sharp pointy knob on the ridge in the photo is the summit of Yellow Mountain in the Warners.  It is just under 8,000 feet elevation and there is a trail up the back side.  The Top-O-the-World trail.  Gretchen's modern bike runs perfectly up there.  No misfires due to altitude induced richness and great fuel economy.

The story with my 1986 bike is different.  It is a big project to lean out the carburation with a needle clip move.  The tank, seat, side covers come off and there are all sorts of little circlips on the linkage I can lose.  Hardly ever do I change it.  My solution is to keep the engine at the rpm where the reversion makes it run lean.  At very high altitudes I slowly turn the fuel cock to restrict the fuel flow and this leans out the mixture.

It is quite a ride up to the top of the world.  Up I go with one hand turning the throttle and steering.  My other hand is between my legs slowly twisting my cock.  It is an exciting ascent.  Now I have seen the vision.  Electronic fuel injection is in my future.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on July 29, 2011, 11:02:31 AM
"My other hand is between my legs slowly twisting my cock.  It is an exciting ascent."

Bo, PLEASE tell me that this is a mis-print!!!!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 29, 2011, 12:19:14 PM
It should have said "fuel cock," Slim.  An accidental omission on my part.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: fredvance on July 29, 2011, 01:29:29 PM
Uh huh, sure. Thats what all the dirty old men say. :wink: I know, I are one. :-D


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on July 29, 2011, 01:35:01 PM
I expected "petcock" -- but will accept your explanation without further questions. :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Glen on July 29, 2011, 02:08:49 PM
I thought he had a chicken on board and he was wringing it's neck.
Chicken choker. LOL


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 30, 2011, 07:54:37 PM
We are staying for a few days with my family in Cool, California.  It is about 45 minutes drive to the BUB factory and we made a visit.  Linnea was very nice and she gave us a factory tour.  A look at all of those pipes being made gave me an idea.

The BUB pipes for a Bonneville are a 2 into 2 carbon steel system with baffled megaphones.  Plans are for me to order a bare (unchromed) system with the megaphones without the baffles.  It will be easy for me to cut and modify the BUB system to get the correct length.  I know how to weld mild steel.  When I do this I will have several questions about the best way to tune the pipes.

Gretchen wants to learn how to ride a motorcycle.  She only rode two times before this trip and she was not experienced.  We rode a few hours in the high desert east of Bend, Oregon, one evening and one full day in the Warner Mountains in california and Oregon, and an afternoon in the Sierra Nevada mountains in California.  She is fourteen, and at this age, is easy to teach.  In addition she does not have bad habits to be unlearned.  She slowly works at learning the basics.  The photo shows her hauling donkey down a Sierra trail in the classic attack position - elbows wide, head down, knees gripping the tank, and butt off of the seat. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: MC 1314 on July 30, 2011, 09:46:33 PM
Wobbly.. my old stompin grounds are the Roseville, Auburn, Grass Valley, Nevada City area, did some mining in Downieville for 35 years or so to. My wife is from Georgetown..darned small world huh. Bub has a great place in GV. Cool is a great place, do not know how it got it's name but in July it usually isn't!!
Look me up at Bub, I work Pre stage, just look for the potbellied guy.
Bob


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on July 30, 2011, 10:53:27 PM
You may get an award as one of the all time great dads WW. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: agro on August 08, 2011, 03:26:30 AM
The valve head to piston clearances are checked.  Many methods have been used over the years and this one works best for me.  First, I clean all oil off the piston crowns and I put on dabs of soft modeling clay.  Then, I rub some oil on the valve heads.  I do not want the clay to stick to the valves.  Some method is needed to turn the crank.  I do not use the starter motor.  An allen wrench is used to turn the crank.  This hand method is what I want.  I will stop turning if I feel any resistance from a valve hitting a piston.

The Triumph valves are necked so the stems near the heads are narrower than the stems in the valve guides.  This improves airflow and it makes them lighter but they are easily bent.  Most of my experience with bending valves is when they nip up against the side of the valve pockets in the piston crowns.  I am very careful now.  I shim the head above the cylinders with three washers each on six of the eight studs and I do not bolt the head down.   I hook up the cams to the cam chain and drive gears.  Now I hold the head down on the cylinders with my hand and I slowly rotate the crank.  The only resistance that I should feel is the clay being squished.  Any harder resistance is a danger sign and I need to stop turning the crank.

Now I remove the drive gears and I pull the head off.  I cut the clay across the marks where the valves touched the clay.  Examining the cut clay shows me my clearances.  The clearances seem to be OK.  The process is repeated with only one washer on each stud and clearances look good.  Then is is repeated a final time with only the head gasket on and 5 lbs-ft torque on the head bolts.

The cam data card gives the minimum valve head to piston crown clearance.  All are OK.  I note that I will also have sufficient clearances with the larger valves that I am considering for the future. 

An additional step would be done if the clearances were near or at the minimum.  I would retard both cams one tooth and recheck the clearances.  This would resemble the engine if the cam chain was very worn.  I would change the chain before it was this badly worn, however. 

Regarding the checks for valve to piston clearances, how much clearance did you have...?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: agro on August 08, 2011, 04:03:19 AM
The next step is to verify that the new higher lift cam does not cause coil bind.  Also, the spring compressed lengths will be calculated to see if any springs need to be shimmed.

Coil bind occurs when the spring is compressed to the extent that all of the the coils are touching each other.  The spring is solid.  Coil bind can damage the engine.  The cam manufacturer recommends 0.015 inches gap between each coil at a  minimum.  A spring is compressed in a vise until coil bind and its length is measured.  0.015 inches is added to the compressed spring length for each coil gap.  The minimum spring compressed length is 1.082 inches as shown on the top ot the calculation page.

The distance A between the retainer spring seat and the valve tip is measured.  This is different than the "A" used in the retainer to seal gap clearance calcs in the previous post.  Distance B is measured, too.  It is the distance between the lower spring seat and the talve tip when the valve is closed.  Distance C is from the cam data card.  Some simple math tells me the compressed length for each spring.  All are less than the 1.082 inch minimum.  Not good.

Now I compress a spring to 1.037 inches in a vice.  This is the most highly compressed spring.  The gaps between the middle coils are 0.025 inches and the coils near the ends are at coil bind.  Not ideal, but the spring is not at coil bind.  The springs will work OK.

Now I look at the compressed spring lengths again.  Are any springs not compressed enough?  If so, I will put a shim under them to compress them to the same length as the others.  The shims look like machined steel washers.  No springs are long enough to require a shim.

These little calculations tell me a third thing.  The #813 cam has the most lift that the standard valve train can tolerate.  Any more lift will cause coil bind in the standard Triumph valve springs.

Hi, love your analysis on this build, your D measurements for the a valves are 1.037" to 1.043" and safe limit is 1.082", I think your at coil bind sir. How can this be rectified to have safety margin with your valve train?

Cheers....Agro


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 09, 2011, 12:50:38 AM
Pete, the girl is an honor roll student, she treats everyone including her mother with respect, and she has gone with me to B-ville twice as a helper.  She looked at me with those big brown eyes and said "I want to learn how to ride.  I will take care of my bike."  The salesman offering me the discount price on the bike and the six month no interest loan clinched the deal.  I was no hero and more like a dinosaur in the La Brea tar pit.  What else could I do?  Nine out of ten of us would have done exactly what I did.  No regrets.  Everything worked out OK.

Agro, more than 1 mm clearance between the valves and the pistons, as I recall.  I did not record the measurements.

No springs are at coil bind and a few are very close to coil bind.  The safety factor is near zero.  I knew it was a problem and I was very, very, careful during the installation.  It was a risky deal and it worked.  That motor ran great and it did what it needed to do.

I am worried about valve spring life with the springs near coil bind.  South Bay Triumph sells a fancy kit with under the bucket shims and racing valve springs.  I strongly recommend this for racing cams.  Installing the kit is on my to-do list.  Hopefully I will get it done before I drop a valve or have some other problem.     
   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: agro on August 09, 2011, 02:55:58 AM
Wob, PM sent..........

Cheers............agro

Pete, the girl is an honor roll student, she treats everyone including her mother with respect, and she has gone with me to B-ville twice as a helper.  She looked at me with those big brown eyes and said "I want to learn how to ride.  I will take care of my bike."  The salesman offering me the discount price on the bike and the six month no interest loan clinched the deal.  I was no hero and more like a dinosaur in the La Brea tar pit.  What else could I do?  Nine out of ten of us would have done exactly what I did.  No regrets.  Everything worked out OK.

Agro, more than 1 mm clearance between the valves and the pistons, as I recall.  I did not record the measurements.

No springs are at coil bind and a few are very close to coil bind.  The safety factor is near zero.  I knew it was a problem and I was very, very, careful during the installation.  It was a risky deal and it worked.  That motor ran great and it did what it needed to do.

I am worried about valve spring life with the springs near coil bind.  South Bay Triumph sells a fancy kit with under the bucket shims and racing valve springs.  I strongly recommend this for racing cams.  Installing the kit is on my to-do list.  Hopefully I will get it done before I drop a valve or have some other problem.     
   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 10, 2011, 12:42:46 AM
A few things I forgot to say about cams in the Triumph.

The 865 cc 10.5 to 1 ratio Arias pistons and the 813 grind cams in my engine are a performance package from South Bay Triumph.  They also modify the advance curves in the ignition module to match this kit.  All of this makes a good street roadster motor with lots of midrange power.  It is not the best setup for an LSR engine.  Too mild.

Larger valves are a common and very effective modification for this engine.  My intake valves are 2mm larger than standard and the exhaust valves are standard.  These are good sizes for a street engine.  Valves are available in larger sizes and the valve pockets in the Arias pistons accommodate valves up to 5mm larger diameter than standard.  I checked the clearance between the pocket sides and the valve edges.  There was plenty.

Cams with over 0.390 inches lift will bind the standard springs.  The 813 cams have slightly less lift and they are, for practical purposes, the hottest cams that can be used with the standard springs and the standard retainers with shims on top of the buckets.  The valve pockets in the Arias pistons will accommodate much higher lift cams than the 813 grind.  There is lots of clearance between the valve heads and the piston crowns.

My springs were close to coil bind with the 813 cam.  There are things I do to minimize any problems due to this.  The rev limiter is set so the engine cannot turn fast enough to float the valves and bind the springs if they are in good condition.  This is essential.  In addition, I check the spring tensions before assembly to make sure all are in good shape.  I do not have the tools to test the spring tension at zero and max lift.  This would be a good thing to do.  Also, the engine goes on the dyno annually and I look at the torque curves near red line.  The curves will tell me if I have a floating valve.

The South Bay Triumph racing lifter kit will accommodate the higher lift cams that produce lots of top end power.  The valve adjustment shims are under the buckets so they cannot be spit out.  This is a big plus for safety.  I do not know the maximum cam lift that can be used with the Arias pistons and the SBT racing lifter kit.   

There might be good parts made by other people than South Bay Triumph.  I would not know.  The SBT stuff costs more, I know that.  Their parts are developed and refined by actual use at Bonneville and they do not give me any problems.  This means a lot to me and it is the main reason why I use their components.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 12, 2011, 12:49:29 AM
It is the early 1970's and I am a younger guy.  One of my friends road races a production bike and he invites me to go with him to the races.  I have never been to a road race and it sounds like fun.  Thursday evening I pack my sleeping bag, cooking gear, tent, etc on my trusty Honda 350.  Always the optimist, I slip a fresh rubber into my wallet.

Friday at work I imagine an evening of light partying, some restful sleep, and an early morning trip to the track.  Dreams and reality are different.  Friday evening I arrive at my friend's double car garage.  It is packed with guys and gals and bikes in all sorts of disassembled states.  A dog or two also.  I set to work changing tires, etc.  Bottles of red wine are passed around and joints, too.  It gets dark outside and I am feeling pretty good.  Someone hands me a box of Suzooki transmission gear clusters and a greasy shop manual and says "These are our blown clusters.  See if you can find enough unbroken parts to make one good set."  The night goes on.  One by one the bikes are finished and put in the vans.  The racers lay their sleeping bags alongside the bikes in the vans and try to get a few hours sleep.  The rest of us work.  It is just getting light and we are off to the races.  I ride my Honda.  I did not have a car license in those years.

We get to the track and wait in line to get in.  It is Sears Point.  I look at the soft brown grass on those gentle California hills and imagine myself sound asleep on top of my down filled paratrooper bag.  Dreams.  Reality is different.  There is not enough money for the entrance fees and several of us are "volunteered" to be corner marshals for the races.  The corner worker has several flags.  A yellow one, I vaguely remember, is waved if someone crashes in the corner.  The other racers see this and slow down.  There is another color flag to wave if there is oil on the track.  A fellow has to pay attention while doing this job.  This was a challenge.  No sleep for about 30 hours.  A cheap wine hangover.  Serious cotton mouth.  Lots of hot sun and castor oil fumes.  Somehow, everything went OK and no one died due to my funky flagging.

This was a classic thrash and there were many more through the years.  I thought I had finally learned how to avoid them.  Dreams and reality are not the same.  The parts arrived from England late and the bike will be ready to pick up at the shop tomorrow evening.  One weekend, maybe two, to turn the bike from street to racing trim.  Another thrash... 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 13, 2011, 12:58:15 AM
The Triumph is back from the shop.  The new mosfet regulator from Ricks is a direct replacement.  It bolts on in place of the standard unit and it has the correct connector on it.  There is none of the typical motorcycle accessory adapt-a-fit hassle.  The mechanic told me to periodically check the regulator to wiring harness connection and to make sure it is tight and non-corroded.  He said I will prevent future problems if I do this.

The mechanic talked to several of the local tuners and he learned a lot about flatslides.  He was told that these carbs are very good for producing maximum top end horsepower and they are not as precise as other carbs at smaller throttle openings.  An expert tuner told him to not choose jet and needle settings by looking at the fuel-air ratio curves.  He said to jet the carbs to produce maximum power.

The blue curves on the attached show mixture and power with #138 main jets.  The red curves show the same with richer #140 mains.  Richer #142 mains were tried and the power fell significantly.  These are the two best jets for producing power.  The initial jets for Bonneville will be the #140's and I will change as needed to suit local conditions.

The 70 horsepower this engine produces is not very much and it is barely better than the old 790 cc motor.  Next year I will install the bucket, spring, and shim kit for higher lift cams and I will try some street cams that are ground to produce more top end power.







Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 14, 2011, 12:51:11 AM
A lot of work to do in a short time.  A thrash.  The next few posts will show some things I have learned over the years.

The first step is to find and lay out the parts I will need.  Everything, including nuts and bolts, goes onto the garage floor.  This part of Oregon is a backwater and almost everything I need beyond the basics must be ordered and shipped to me.  The object of this is to find out if I need to order anything so I will get it on time.  The riveted chain master links I have are the wrong size.  I order some more.

Next I find all of my spares, such as an extra igniter, coils, inner tubes, throttle cable, etc., and I put them in a hand grenade box.  I will think of more spares to take during the coming week and I will put them in the box, too.

Finally, I collect all of the special tools and put them in an ammo can.

This method helps me to remember to bring everything.  During the week I will use all sorts of tools and I will say to myself  "should I take this with me to the salt?"  If yes, into the can it goes.   



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 14, 2011, 12:23:40 PM
Now it is time to figure out which tasks to do first.  Some things must be done before others.  I ask myself a lot of "what if" questions.  Some serious thinking reveals that I need to adjust the valves before I put on the fairing.  I ask myself "what if I do not have the right valve shim, cannot find it locally, and I must order one from Triumph in Beaverton?"  This could derail the entire thrash if I wait to adjust the valves.  The valve adjustment is the first task.

The Bonneville valve shims were also used for many late 1970 and early 1980 bikes, such as the 750 cc DOHC Hondas, the big Kawasaki fours, the Yamaha XS-750 triples and the XS-1100 fours, and some others.  I need several shims and I am lucky, the local Honda shop has them.

Most of us rotate the cam to a point where the lobe faces directly away from the valve shim and we do a single clearance measurement.  Cam base circles are not always concentric with the cam centerlines, sometimes there are slight bumps and flat spots on the base circles, and often there is some clearance between the cams and their bearings.  I rock the cams forwards and backwards a few times a make several measurements of the clearance between the base circle and the shim at different locations.  The shim adjustment is based on these multiple measurements rather than a single one.  This method gives me better results.

In the past there has been some scuffing and pitting on race cams I have installed.  These cams had none of this and they looked perfect.  The engine was broken in with 10-40 mineral oil with an oil additive for the break-in period.  This oil was replaced with 20-40 synthetic motorcycle oil made for bikes with integral clutches and trannys.  Throughout all of this I made sure the oils had adequate zinc and phosphorous to prevent cam and lifter damage.  This is something I learned how to do from this forum and it works.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 16, 2011, 01:41:30 AM
The thrash is moving along as expected.  I was pulling the trailer on the interstate to retrieve the bike from Portland and suddenly I realized that I forgot to tighten the lug nuts on the right wheel after I installed a new tire.  Then I stood up while lifting an air wrench from the bottom drawer of my roll-around and I cut my head on the top drawer I forgot to close.  Clear thinking under pressure is not my strong point.

The Triumph does not have a normal motorcycle frame.  It has a top frame that bolts to the engine like a Vincent and a swing arm that connects to the rear of the engine.  There are all sorts of plates and brackets and the cradle under the engine bolts to the top frame and some brackets near the swing arm.  All of this works well enough when the bolts are tight.  An important pre-race chore is to retorque the bolts.

The first step is to look up the torque in the shop manual.  The published torque value is for a bolt if there is no nut, or it is for the nut if there is one on the bolt.  The torque values are for clean and dry threads unless noted otherwise.  The published torque for the example nut on the engine mounting bolt is 80 Newton-meters.  The first photo shows the loosened nut after I took it off and cleaned the threads.  I cannot get a socket on the nut to tighten it with a torque wrench.  The oil line is in the way.

The bolt head is on the other side of the bike as shown in Photo 2.  I can get a socket on it.  The oil line is not blocking it.  I use the torque wrench to measure the torque it takes to overcome friction to make the bolt turn as shown in Photo 3.  The nut on the other side is loose when I do this.  It takes 5 Newton-meters torque to make the bolt turn.

Now I add the two torques together as shown in Photo 4.  This give me the torque value when I tighten the bolt with the socket and torque wrench on the bolt head end and I hold the nut steady with a combination wrench.  The 85 Newton-meter torque I use provides 80 Newton-meters to tighten the bolt and another 5 Newton-meters torque to overcome friction between the bolt and the bolt hole.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 16, 2011, 03:26:18 PM
It is a thrill to see the vehicles in this build diary on the salt at Speedweek.  We have watched them turn from dreams to completed vehicles and now they become veteran race machines.  The only one I have seen in the photos so far is Fabio's the Gus Gus liner.  There is a lot of European race car technology in that car and it will be interesting to see how all of it works.  I wish them well.  Freud's post about the emotions he feels at Speedweek is touching.  Most of us fell this way and Freud has the courage and gift to write it down.  Ray and Slim, youse guys are doing a good job.

The Triumph has a countershaft sprocket held on by a nut and the countershaft is enclosed within a big bushing and all rotate within the oil seal.  All are uncoated carbon steel and salt can get in there and rust everything up solid.  These are doused with anti corrosion oil during setup and all are taken apart and cleaned when I get home.

Our union contract says we take a couple of weeks off a year with no pay.  These are furlough days.  I forgot about them and my boss reminded me.  I will take today and Friday off to finish the bike.  This will be a big help.  The back end is done and now it is time to turn the scoot around and do the front.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 19, 2011, 12:39:10 AM
Some massive communication breakdown a few years ago resulted in me ordering the street/torque #813 grind cams.  The cams I need are the street/horsepower #540 grind.  Well, the lack of top end power is finally figured out.  The cams will be pulled at the start of the rainy season and they will be sent in for a regrind.

Several methods to protect the bike from corrosion have been tried over the years.  This method is to fill a cup with anti-corrosion oil and brush it on the frame, engine cases, and all other metal parts on the lower 1/3 of the bike.  A disposable paint brush works good for this.  The preservative oil sits on the bike for a few days and it penetrates all of the cracks, crevices, nooks, and crannies.  Last, I wipe off the excess with a paper towel.  The towel is not very efficient at cleaning off the oil and a thin film remains.

This method works very well for me. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 20, 2011, 12:18:08 AM
The fairing is on.  The two beers on the seat are my incentive.  I cannot drink them until the fairing is completely mounted.  I need to get this bike done and I cannot seem to do anything right.  One hour of normal work is taking me two to complete.  I measure wrong, break taps, etc.  Someone put a voodoo curse on Team Go Dog, Go!  I am sure of it.  Yes.  This is the problem.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 22, 2011, 12:28:51 AM
The picture is taken this afternoon at Portland International Raceway.  It was European Day and the bike was on display at the Cascade Moto Classics tent.  People asked me questions about land speed racing most of the day.  I sat on the grenade box and taped up the front wheel, did some little things, and finished the bike.  Bonnie is ready to go.  I am too.

This is one thrash I could not handle by myself and there are a lot of people to thank.  My wife, Rose, put up with me during all of this.  Cascade Moto Classics helped a lot.  Floyd, a fellow in the Triumph club, saves his spare change in a box all year and he gives it to me for gas money.  The guys in the Triumph club helped me figure out the fork fix.  The people in my crew at work cover for me when I am taking days off and they schedule my work so I can get to B'ville.  My boss gets special thanks for not firing me.

My big goal this year is to not crash and to go over 130 mph.   It looks like I can do it if the salt is in good shape.  This will be a good meet.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Geo on August 22, 2011, 08:01:06 AM
Wobbly,

Best of luck to you!  Thanks for bring me along with you for the years work between meets.

 Geo


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on August 22, 2011, 11:26:06 AM
Wobbly........the Salt is good enough that you can not use it as an excuse.

Go For It.

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 23, 2011, 12:14:47 AM
It is a pleasure, Geo.  It has been a lot of years and I am glad that you enjoy the build.  Freud, it is good news that the salt is is nice.  A lousy rider like me needs all the help that mother nature can provide.

The windshield is lower this year and I tuck down until my chest bone hits the top of the gas tank.  I cannot get any lower.  The roll of paper towels supports my helmet so the upper edge does not drop down and block my vision.  This is a big help and it is a suggestion from a fellow racer on this forum.  The towel roll is mickey mouse so I went down to one of the local chopper shops and ordered a small p-pad.  It seemed a good idea to buy a new one for obvious reasons.

It is hard for an old guy to make himself small.  I set the kitchen timer for ten minutes, hop on the bike and tuck down, and stay in place until the bell dings.  It is working.  Slowly I am loosening up and it hurts less each time.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 25, 2011, 12:22:17 AM
Another goofy shop trick.

Lots of bolts on the Triumph are shrouded by the sheet metal and it is difficult to tighten them with a torque wrench.  Their awkward locations make them hard to accurately tighten by hand, too.  This is what I do.  First, I break out the fish scale, an allen wrench that fits the bolt, and an open end/box end wrench that fits the allen wrench.  These wrenches must be strong and of good quality.

Next, I figure out the torque needed on the bolt.  This bolt is Grade 5, 5/16 inch diameter by 18 threads per inch, lubricated.  The torque is 13 pounds-foot according to the chart.  I also measure the wrench length between the center of the box end to the center of the open end.  This distance is 3.5 inches.

Now, I put the allen wrench through the box end, stick the allen wrench in the bolt head, connect the chain to the open end, and attach the fish scale to the chain.

Last, I pull the fish scale to tighten the bolt.  The chain is always at right angles to the open end/box end wrench.

The formula I use is this:  desired torque in pounds-foot x 12 / wrench length in inches = pulling tension on fish scale, or 13 x 12 / 3.5 = 45  I pull the fish scale until it shows 45 pounds tension.

The long and bumpy ride to Bonneville loosens some bolts on the Triumph.  I will use this method in the pits to make sure all are tight before I run.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on August 25, 2011, 02:13:00 PM

It is hard for an old guy to make himself small.  I set the kitchen timer for ten minutes, hop on the bike and tuck down, and stay in place until the bell dings.  It is working.  Slowly I am loosening up and it hurts less each time.   

Gee, Wobbly, you are only 58!  Just wait til you're 59 - - that's when the prostate sometimes decides that 9 minutes is all you can stay in that position!  But look at the bright side; water of any kind does have a cooling effect. Oh well, you still have another year!

See you on the salt.

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 25, 2011, 11:53:18 PM
Next year I will need to get down the course quick to the porta potty at the 5-mile for a pee!  This is the incentive I need to buythe cam and lifter kit this winter.  Thanks for the advice.  Now I will not feel guilty when I spend the big $$.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on August 26, 2011, 08:34:30 AM
On a more serious note, your bike looks great and I look forward to meeting you.  I'm just glad I only have to stay in my riding position for 4 miles. I am leaving for Bonneville in about a 1/2 hour.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on August 26, 2011, 10:15:00 AM
W Walrus, we station a porta-potty at about the 6 1/2 (for the course watchers), not the five.  You'll have to go farther to get your urinary relief.  There was an outhouse about the 4 1/2 this year - at the long course timing slip stand -- but it was for the folks in the timing slip stand only - not for spectators or racers (although you might have been allowed to use it with their expressed permission.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 26, 2011, 11:31:09 AM
Slim's Bonneville weather forecast on the home page shows dry weather at the beginning.  This is good.  We will leave tomorrow and be there on Monday afternoon.  Tom, you and Lars need to be control yourselves.  Do not shred the salt with those big singles before we get a few runs in.  Good luck with your bike.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 28, 2011, 12:15:32 AM
Tonight we are at the Malheur Field Station.  It is an active research facility for folks interested in the high desert.  We rent a trailer for the nights when we are traveling through on our way to B'ville.  Everything is old and ratty.  Broken down.  This does not bother the scientific types.  Their interests are in other more esoteric areas.

This evening we watched the sunset and a thunderstorm over Steens Mountain.  The fellow standing next to me was an etomologist (expert in bugs).  A mosquito landed on his arm.  All of us immediately recognized this insect.  It was the small curex? variety.  A vector for West Nile virus.  The expert watched her crawl around on his skin until she found a spot she liked.  The bug scientist's hand was poised over the insect and it was and ready to squash.  The mosquito became still as she prepared to insert her sucking tube into the underlying flesh.  Suddenly the hand descended.  The insect was doomed.  There was no escape.

I asked the fellow how he knew when to slap the little bugger.  This is what he said.  Mosquitos have a sheath over their needle.  They pull the sheath back before the big plunge.  They are focused on their objective and they are not easily distracted.  This is the perfect time to flatten them.  Biting flies are the same way, according to the expert.  The trick is to wait until they spread their jaws.  At that instant, wham!

This is a good thing about racing.  It gets a person out and about in the world and it promotes a good general education in practical matters.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on August 28, 2011, 02:34:52 AM
Boy, if it ain't on here it ain't worth learnin'!!! :roll: :evil: :-D :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 30, 2011, 07:31:39 PM
Fourteen year old girl + pick up truck + wide open spaces = driving lessons.  We all started somewhere.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on August 30, 2011, 07:43:16 PM
Good Job, Wobbles.

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 31, 2011, 09:13:28 AM
It is Wednesday AM in the KOA, on a picnic table, during the magic moment at dawn when it is not too cold, hot, or windy.  We are done.  The engine this year was down two horsepower due to wear and tear since last year.  Last year's runs were fairly decent and the streamlining I had then was not all that bad.  I was not expecting much as far as speed goes.  The main goal this year was to see if the fork mods fixed the handling problems.  It made no sense to continue to race the bike unless it would go in a straight line.  More speed would make things worse.

The course we rode was the short international.  It was choppy and there was a 10 mph side wind from the NNW during the down run.  It was too jiggly to see good when I was down tight on the tank.  I kept as low as I could.  The run was a good one at 131 +.  The bike handled perfect.  No bar twitching and the front wheel did not twist and turn to follow ruts.  This was the first LSR run I enjoyed and was not scared.  The side winds did not cause any problems.

The back run was the first LSR run I did not dread.  I actually wanted to do it.  The wind was 6 mph from the SW and the speed was 130 +.  No handling problems.  I held the bars tight and gave them a little twitch.  This would start a harmonic wobble in the past.  The bike twitched once and righted itself.  Total stability.  I am a happy fellow.  Two runs in the 130's and no big crash.  Life is good.

A trick that Old Scrambler told me yesterday.  He said we tend to tense up and stop breathing when we are going fast.  This is a problem for me.  I linger a bit longer in the mile than most.  Scrambler said he talks to the bike and this makes him breathe correctly.  I did this, yelling "come on Bonnie, you can do it" and other things.  This trick works.

Lars, Team Speed Doo, team Australia, Koncrete Kid, Don Pearsoll, and lots of other folks on this forum are tearing up the salt with record runs or tearing their bikes apart to figure out why they do not work.  Ray the Rat is here.  All will have stories to tell.  We are taking the day off and will explore the mountains nearby. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: gearheadeh on August 31, 2011, 10:01:19 AM
Wobbly,
Good job on meeting your goals, plus the novice driver thing brought back memories for my first time driving.  Only my instructor was asleep so I found out that a fairly new 1971 American Motors Javelin could go over 120MPH on an Oregon highway.  8-) Iam sure your 14 year old will be more law abiding, enjoy the desert.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 02, 2011, 09:40:39 AM
Thanks for the compliments Freud and Gearheadeh.  This is a record I should not have.  The slower return run was straight into a headwind.  My job was to keep centered on the course and ride a straight line, hold the throttle open, shift at reasonable times, and tuck down.  That was not enough.  Somehow that little Triumph found some horsepower I did not know it had and we pushed through the wind.  The gods of speed give and take away.  They were generous to me on that Tuesday.  That is the only way I can explain it.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 05, 2011, 12:20:53 AM
It is Tuesday afternoon at BUB.  Our runs are done and it is time to visit Lars.  He is been working on the bike for several days.  Every part of the bike has been taken apart and checked at least one time.  It makes all of the right noises and runs well for a short time.  Then it stops.  I try to assist.  This is an Indian, blown, running on alcohol.  Not something I see every day.  I am no help, and I say to Lars "When you give up on this thing, we can take you with us tomorrow.  We are going to go exploring."  Lars says, "No, I will not give up.  'Flummoxed' is an English word with no Danish equivalent.  It does not happen to Danes."  He was correct.  He got the bike running on Wednesday and set an AMA record.  Amazing. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on September 05, 2011, 05:26:18 AM
  He got the bike running on Wednesday and set an AMA record. 


that's when lars was pretty chuffed .

franey


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: octane on September 05, 2011, 10:58:04 AM
Thanks Bo !

It was a pleasure meeting you and Gretchen.

Ha, ha....that picture you took there;
that's me trying reeeealy hard to do the 'Top Gun posture'.





that's when lars was pretty chuffed .

Yep

.-)


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 05, 2011, 03:19:31 PM
It is Wednesday at BUB.  We drive to the Bend in the Road and take a left onto dirt instead of turning right on the blacktop.  This is the road up to Leppy Pass.  There are some strange mounds up there that appear to be made by a giant 20-foot tall groundhog.  We climbed up on top of one and there was no big groundhog hole.  Strange.  Mounds of mysterious origin.  Next we drove along the east side of Pilot Mountain.  The photo is from near Patterson Springs with Lemay Island on the left and Crater Island on the right.  There was water on the flats near the shore.  It was trapped there.  See the big expanse of bright white salt offshore.

Is this the second salt flats that old timers talk about?       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 07, 2011, 12:15:49 AM
This is the beginning of the work to run next year.  It is figuring out what to do.  First, I calculate the engine RPM for each run.  The speeds on the timing slips, the tire circumference, the sprocket sizes, and the slip factor are all input into the little formula on the bottom of the page.  My runs were on the International Course.  It was hard, dry, and very choppy.  My best guess for the slip factor is 95%.

The listed speeds show that I am making slow progress at going faster.  Too slow.  This is frustrating.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Stan Back on September 07, 2011, 10:08:43 AM
Well, you can't fix the salt -- but it looks like you've fixed the bike.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on September 07, 2011, 10:09:41 AM
It looks like 7,500 rpm is the goal so a 41-tooth sprocket would gain another 1+mph.  You may be at the point where the overall weight and drag of the bike is a high factor vs available horsepower.  Lighter; lower; narrower; then add motor power/rpms...........You have done a lot with a converted street bike.........it may be time to dedicate the build to the salt and get a second bike for the street. Whatever you do, keep us informed..........you offer a lot of good info!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: dadsolds on September 07, 2011, 02:40:46 PM
Wobbly, don't forget the new power band range with the new cams. that could change your gearing requirements. best to check that on the dyno


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 08, 2011, 12:43:33 AM
Stan, it is nice to just open the throttle and enjoy it, just like everyone else.  The chassis and suspension part of this street toadster build is done.

Ol Scrambler, this bike is like the Cub.  It is teaching me a lot at safe speeds.  There is more go in it.  Plans are to change the cam this year, install the shim under bucket kit, and rebuild the front fairing.  In 2013 the intake, exhaust, and spark advance curve will be tuned.  In 2014 I will leave the bike alone, run naked at Elmo, and save money to race in Australia.  I will go there in 2015.  That will finish the build.  After that, who knows?

DadSolds, you are right.  I will need to do a dyno run.  Last year I had a 38-tooth rear sprocket cut.  That will be the one I use, hopefully.

This year's rpm's are plotted on the 2011 horsepower and mixture curve.  The sea-level horsepower is 68.5.  My standard correction factor is 0.86 for Bonneville.  68.5 x 0.86 = 59 hp.  My runs are done with 59 hp, as an estimate.

The curves show that the engine was spinning well beyond the torque peak and just over the horsepower peak.  Normally this would indicate the gear ratio was too high, numerically.  This was my lucky day and I was running into headwinds on both runs.  The down was in a 10 mph wind from the NNW.  This was predominately a side wind with some headwind.  The back was directly into a 7 mph headwind.  The slightly high gear ratio I had might have been to my advantage in these conditions.

       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: joea on September 08, 2011, 08:28:24 AM
wobbly...I want you to know I can learn ALOT from others...

from you I admire your "humility" and "demeanor"......

THANK YOU

Joe :)


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on September 08, 2011, 09:15:48 AM
Bo,
Horsepower is what gets the job done at Bonneville, for a given bike configuration (i.e. height, fairing, etc.)  I got my bike dyno'd in Longmont, CO. then geared it according to the maximum horsepower RPM.  We bracketed this by changing the rear sprocket one tooth at a time until we could no longer pull the RPM for maximum horsepower.  It worked; we went the fastest when the RPM's matched the maximum horsepower point.

If you install a new cam, keep in mind that the cam that will produce the maximum horsepower is the one you want for Bonneville, but may make your bike harder to live with on the street.

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 09, 2011, 01:51:59 AM
Hi Joe.  It is age.  I do not have the energy or testosterone level to be a cocky smart donkey anymore.  It was fun when I could do it.

Tom, the grind #813 cams in the bike now polished up nice during use.  There is no pitting or galling on the lobes or lifters.  They run quiet.  In other words, the cams do not seem to be slamming the valves open and shut.  These cams appear to be well designed.  I like this, so the next cams will be the same brand.  There is another grind I can try and it is the #540 grind.  These cams produces more horsepower and are suitable for the street according the folks that sell them.  I cannot use the standard springs, though.  Racing items will be needed.

Does anyone reading this run a #540 grind WebCam in a Hinckley Bonneville?  Please PM me.

The third and last step in evaluating how I did is the power vs speed chart adapted from Bradley's book.  The new entries are triangles with dots in their middles.  Note that all of my dots for the last four years make a horizontal line.  This shows that my speed increases are due to aerodynamic improvements, learning how to set up and ride the bike, and decreasing the chassis rolling resistance.  I am going faster by increasing efficiency rather than horsepower.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 11, 2011, 11:54:38 PM
The last thing I want to do is work on the build.  It would be great to do something else for a few months.  One of my big jobs this year is a front fairing rebuild. The fairing must be on the bike when I do this and it gets cold and wet here in the winter with short days and long nights.  In must do it now before the weather gets bad.

The first step is to rebuild the fairing in front of the handlebars.  It is not as wide as the handlebars and my hands are in the wind.  This is not good and the new front will be slightly wider than the handlebars.  The existing front has an "opening section" in both top and side view.  This splits the wind and shoves it away from the motorcycle.  It also creates a lot of rearward turbulence and a large low pressure area behind it.

The nose section will be rebuilt into a semi-circular shape.  This will split the air, and hopefully, not shove it away from the bike sides.  I want as much airflow as possible to stay attached to the bike.  Also, with this shape there is a reduced area of low pressure behind it.

The goal for next year is to get into the 140's and the aero must work well. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: dadsolds on September 12, 2011, 11:23:47 AM
Wobbly,
The way I understand Bradley, its not so much the size of the radius of the front section, but rather what the fairing sides do after you pass the center (radius center mark in drawing) or widest section of the fairing. What seems to be important is that the sides of the fairing begin to close back in towards the center of the bike, both in top view and in side view. The angle of closure should be less than 10 deg to the center line. This angle of closure applies to your body and also the tail section. The greatest drag (neg. pressure) producer is the area at the tail end of what ever is punching a hole in the air. The gradual tapering of the object, bike fairing and rider, helps minimize this area. Take a look at Mellor.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: mtkawboy on September 12, 2011, 11:34:03 AM
Honda made a Blackbird motorcycle


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 13, 2011, 12:22:54 AM
Dadsolds, the overall shape is shown on this drawing I made a year ago.  The back is done and I am working on the front.  Unfortunately I forgot to consider that I would need to turn the bars.  The front is moved ahead a bit and widened slightly to give a teardrop shape, overall.  Now I will be able to turn.  The part I am working on now is the nose right in front of the cutout where my arms and hands are.  The nose is in red on the drawing.  The rules say that all of me should be visible from the side.

On another subject.  Most of the builders I admire use low frames with rigid rear ends.  They lay down on the bikes.  I was going to build a lowboy Triumph.  The choppy track at the last meet showed me the value of properly setup rear suspension.  Now I consider it essential.  Karena Markham, a local rider, and Leslie Porterfield are going fast with tall and short wheelbase production frames on 600cc and 1000cc Hondas.  Now I changed my mind.  The Triumph will be run as a highboy with the production frame and the 3" extended swing arm it has now.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on September 13, 2011, 08:43:31 AM
Bo,
I am going thru some of the same questions that you are, except that I don't have a starting point as my BSA build does not seem to conform to anything now on the market. My view plane thru the headstock will require a large Plexiglass or Lexan bubble in front of this area.  So I will have to start from scratch.  What I see in your top view, is handlebars and footpegs outside of the bodywork.  I think the bodywork needs to envelop these important items which may mean the widest part must be wider and moves rearward, especially on my build.  I also see that you are ending your rear enclosure 7-1/2" rearward of the tire.  This must be FIM, as I have heard the number 11" for BUB (AMA) next year.

I have a question about the plastic bubble.  I see in SCTA that Lexan (polycarbonate) is required for cars for windows, etc.  I have a friend who builds road race fairings, and he claims that Lexan would be dangerous to a bike rider, as it is so strong it could "cut your head off" if you try to go thru it.  He uses only Plexiglas, as it will shatter on impact. I also see that I can buy a better grade shatter resistant acrylic at Lowe's, so that may be my choice.  I can find nothing in the rules for bikes on this subject.  Any thoughts on this?
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: WhizzbangK.C. on September 13, 2011, 09:01:51 AM
I'll jump in and agree with Tom that you need to have the fairing extend outward past your hands. This year Brian ran with two different fairings on the front of his bike. The first was a cafe type fairing that was recycled from years past on Tucker's and my bikes. With this fairing he ran consistent 99.xxx mph passes. He swapped to the larger fairing that we made to fit the bike and him and with no other changes made several 102.xxx passes. This experiment proved to us that a full coverage fairing is a worthwhile project.

Tom, on the subject of polycarbonate vs. Plexiglass, I don't believe that Plexiglass is in any way safer than polycarbonate. Yes, it will shatter on impact rather than resist your motion. However, the resulting shards will be razor sharp, and quite probably slice right through anything they encounter, your neck included. Polycarbonate can be formed to with a little heat and patience, and the edges can be sanded round and polished smooth so as not to cut anything. Buy a piece of each and break them, or try to in the case of the poly (wear long sleeves, gloves, and safety glasses when you break the Plexiglass, as it tends to explode when it breaks). If you're worried about hitting it in an accident, mount it so that it will come off if struck from behind, but be secure against wind forces from the front. A bit of thought should provide the answers to how to do this, as I don't have those right now, LOL.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on September 13, 2011, 07:03:28 PM
Tom, I'll second Whizzbang's advice. The shards from plexi are really nasty and may either cut or penetrate. If you're concerned I'd be more inclined to sand smooth all the edges on the polycarbonate (Lexan) windshield and then design a simple breakaway mount.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 13, 2011, 10:34:41 PM
I am glad you answered that Pete.  Windshield plastic is something I do not know about.

Fortunately the fairing is being built on the bike.  I have the tail on, too.  I can sit on it and make sure there is enough coverage.  Thanks for the advice. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on September 14, 2011, 09:29:09 PM
Consider the potential to get your hands as narrow as possible..........I believe the rules allow a minimum of 10-inches between your thumbs.........that says about 15 to 16-inches of fairing width should do.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 14, 2011, 11:51:47 PM
Scrambler, right now I am using the standard switch gear and it is bulky.  I moved the controls and grips in as far as they would go and trimmed the bar ends.  The total width is 25 inches.  A bit on the wide side.

An aluminum bar was bent in a semicircular shape to a 25 inch inside diameter.  This will give the fairing nose immediately in front of the handlebar a 26 inch outside diameter.  The Frankenstien apparatus in the photo is the jig I made to position the bar in the right place.  The new fairing will be built around the old.  Then the old one will be removed.

I sure hope Lars finds his bike.  What a mistake.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on September 15, 2011, 01:19:12 AM

 If you're worried about hitting it in an accident, mount it so that it will come off if struck from behind, but be secure against wind forces from the front. A bit of thought should provide the answers to how to do this, as I don't have those right now, LOL.


Indeed
Have a look at how they mount the screens on modern bikes
Plastic screws, or plastic nuts. Or rubber mounted "wel nut"
http://oemfasteningsystems.thomasnet.com/viewitems/pop-well-nuts/pop-well-nut-threaded-inserts
The idea is, in the event of an accident, you hit the screen and it breaks free of the fairing, saving the rider from serious injury
More than once, a bike has turned up at my workshop on a tow truck with the screen off the bike, but intact.
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 16, 2011, 11:32:27 PM
The p-pad I ordered for a chin rest did not arrive in time for BUB.  I engineered one out of the unused part of a roll of toilet paper, some cord, and duct tape.  Note the loops.  They wrap around the belt.  This way, if the pad squirts out from under the belt it will not fall down onto the salt.  It is always good to design things so there is no chance they will fall off.  The pad is from Drag Specialties.  It is leather and good quality.  These are great for cars and bikes where a small amount of padding is needed.  They come in several colors.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 18, 2011, 12:45:33 AM
This fairing rebuild is a lot of slow and tedious work.  Walrusthink is kept to a minimum.  I do not want to mess this up with my creative ideas and I am trying to follow the concepts in Bradley's "The Racing Motorcycle."  I hope he knows what he is writing about.  The old fairing I am taking off seems to be more streamlined that the new one I am building.  This photo from a ladder shows the shape of the new nose as compared to the old.  The top of the old fairing is removed.  The new nose is larger and it has a semicircular shape.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: RidgeRunner on September 18, 2011, 09:26:56 AM
Bo,

     If you haven't already, you might want to google up info on the Wixom Bros fairings for roadracing HD's back in the day.  Should ease any doubts you might have about the direction you are taking, looks to me like you are on the right track.  The timeslips will tell.

                     Ed


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: thefrenchowl on September 18, 2011, 12:33:28 PM
Yes, wider is better as far as streamlining goes... Wixon Brothers replica stuff here:

http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/Harley/XR750TT1970-74.htm (http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/Harley/XR750TT1970-74.htm)

Main page, they sell a lot of replica stuff:

http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/ (http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/)

Patrick


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 18, 2011, 11:10:51 PM
Patrick, that Airtech and replica stuff looks good.  Ordering the streamlining and adapting it to fit would be the smart way to do it.  Anyway, these three posts tonight show the other way to approach the problem.

The gap between the back of the windshield and the rider's helmet should be kept to a minimum according to Bradley.  I put on the monkey suit and my helmet and laid down on the bike with my helmet on the chin rest.  My cute blond laboratory assistant took a side shot.  Next she took a level and put it against my helmet, held it vertical, and made a mark on the bike directly under the top of my helmet.  She also made marks on the chin pad where my helmet contacted it. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 18, 2011, 11:30:56 PM
This is the second of the three posts.  Now I use the photo she took and the marks on the bike to position my helmet exactly as if I was in it and I clamp five guide bars to the bike.  One bar on each side represents the sides of the streamlined shape.  One bar loops up over the bike to show the streamlined shape in end view, and another bar extends from the nose to the bar that loops over the top.

The side view picture shows the bar that goes from the nose to the loop.  This gentle curve would be the ideal shape.  I clamp the back of my windshield to the bar in a location a few inches in front of my helmet.  The windshield is mounted to my old dashboard and the tachometer is attached to it.  My notes from previous runs say the windshield is at the ideal height when the bottom of the tachometer is at the same height as the top of the headlight.  I move the loop up and down until the windshield is at this height.

The front view picture shows the bar that loops over the bike.  The "Bell" sticker on my helmet is a couple of inches above my eyes.  The photo shows that I am looking through the dashboard.  I go to the back of the bike and look through my helmet to the front.  I adjust the windshield height a little bit until I am looking through it correctly.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 18, 2011, 11:38:17 PM
This is the last of tonight's three posts.  This is a top view from the ladder.  It shows the back section that was built to a tapered shape last year.  The guide bars alongside the bike are visible and they show the taper.  The camera angle exaggerates the taper.  It is slightly less than the ten degree maximum described by Bradley.

These guide bars will not be part of the fairing or tail.  They are there to give me reference points for the design fine-tuning and fabrication.  It is beer-thirty on a warm Sunday afternoon.  Enough fabrication for one day.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 20, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
The fairing layout did not look right.  It seemed to be too big.  Yesterday Rosie took some pictures from the front and sides with me on the bike.  I unloaded the photos on the computer and looked at them.  The opening was too small.  Then I adjusted the guide bars, Rosie took photos, and I looked at them.  After the third try everything looked OK.  The bigger opening will keep my shoulders, hands, and arms out of the wind.  This taught me a lesson.  The streamlining must consider the rider.  I fill in the hole behind this fairing and together we make a nice aerodynamic shape.  Also, I learned that the camera is a valuable design tool.  Today I started to do more metal bashing. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 22, 2011, 10:46:12 PM
The Cook Shootout performance of Poteet, Main, Dutweiler and crew means a lot to this backwoods boy.  It would not mean as much if it was a three engine six wheel drive car or some other technological complication.  Instead they are breaking the big records with a single engine two wheel drive car.  A car that is much more similar to our typical rides.  This is way cool and it is traditional hot rodding at its best.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bones on September 23, 2011, 05:42:14 PM
Hey Wobbly
   You're at it already.
   I enjoyed meeting you and your


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bones on September 23, 2011, 06:20:21 PM
Wobbly I'll try again
 I think you are on the right track with the fairing.
 I bought a magazine (Bike from the UK) the other day with a test of 3 Yamaha Diversons
  n/a ,modified -56hp --  115mph
  NOS injected- 57hp --  116mph
  standard with modified fairing-47hp-  123mph
  The fairing used is a "Peel Mountain Mile" from a Manx or G50
  They calculated 69hp is needed for a standard bike to match the faired one.
  Hope to see you next year.
   cheers    Bones


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on September 23, 2011, 07:06:59 PM
Bo,
I'm thoroughly enjoying your fairing build, as it is what I have to do for next year.  Big difference is I have to start from scratch.  How do you plan to make your windshield?

Also, I can see a couple of problems with your build.  Your footwear is not appropriate, and that big Acura chain attached to your carport column is going to slow you down.....

When I get started, which probably won't be until I get back to N.S., I'll keep everyone posted.

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 26, 2011, 01:01:47 AM
Bones, those numbers from the UK seem reasonable.  The tail is as important, or more, than the shape of the front.  Did they put on a tail piece?  We will be there next year, too.  It was nice to meet you.

Tom, look on Scooter Grubbs website.  The 2011 BUB pictures are posted and the bikes are in numerical order.  There is a familiar looking yellow BSA in a few pictures.  The windshield is something I will have made for me by a professional.  There are some complex curves in it.  A bit much for me to figure out.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 28, 2011, 12:04:44 AM
Our team records are 2007 AMA 1000cc Modified Partial Streamliner, Production Engine, 2008 1000cc AMA Modified Partial Streamliner, Production Engine, 2009 AMA 175cc Modified Partial Streamliner, Production Engine, 2010 FIM Category 1, Group 1, Partially Streamlined, Naturally Aspirated, 1000cc Twin Cylinder flying kilo and mile.  Every bike has gone to impound every year it ran.  Twice we lost records later in the meets.  The Triumph held four at year's end and the Honda one.  I do not mention these in my posts.  This brings bad luck and no more records.  Now I am racing for fun and not records and I will list them just this one time.

None of our bikes have been competitive and we simply were the first to figure out unique combinations.  We show what people can do with a dream, little resources, sketchy talent, and lots of crafty thinking.

The AMA and FIM records are within reach.  The little Triumph could be modified to the extent where I could get them back.  The bike would be fit for only one purpose, LSR, and it would be useless for everything else.  The bike has treated me well and it does not deserve this.  Also, I do not have the money.  The plan is to stick with the street roadster concept, try to get a 150 mph coin at BUB, and race in Australia in 2015.  Simple dreams.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bones on September 28, 2011, 02:04:00 AM
Bo
   the seat was really basic- a rolled up sheet of something about the size of a orange marker cone.
  If you make it to Aus I'm sure we can look after you.
Remember the place is BIG, you need as much time as you can afford
  cheers   Bones


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 29, 2011, 12:02:17 AM
Hi Bones.  We are figuring on six weeks total vacation with five weeks in AUS.  One of my friends showed me pictures of his trip there last year.  He said food was expensive.  My, oh my.  I just made a trip to the kitchen and had a big bowl of ice cream on top of oatmeal cookies.  The plan is to fatten up for the trip.  I have until 2015 so I am getting an early start.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 02, 2011, 11:45:16 PM
Financial planning for the year was the big topic this weekend.  The kid's college savings and my racing money all comes out of the a same paycheck.  The girl that comes with me to the races is fourteen.  I asked her about her plans after high school.  I was hoping she would say "I want to join the Marines" like her two oldest brothers.  Or, "I'm off to join the Navy" like her mother.  Or she could say, like I did, "Pops, I am sick of skool.  I want to be a machinist."  She said "I want to go to college."  "What major?" I asked.  "Biochemistry" she chirped, like she already had given it serious thought.  I do not know what this is and they do not teach it at the local community college...

These Triumphs like I have are originally 790 cc or 865 cc depending on the production year.  Mine was a 790 cc model that is upgraded to 865 cc with 10.5 to 1 pistons instead of the standard 9.5 to 1.  The #813 grind cams I have are great street cams that produces lots of mid range power.  They are not the best for Bonneville.  I am looking for cams that give more top end power.

People that race these things typically install big bore kits and sometimes stroker kits to raise the displacement from 904 cc to over 1,000 cc.  This is something I might do in the future.  I cannot afford it right now.  The hot cams are all made for these larger motors.  I asked the expert that helps me if installing the mildest of the racing cams in my 865 would work.  He a said "I do not know and I need to think about this.  That little engine might have enough size and compression to scavenge with the big cams."

My question is, what is scavenging?     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: octane on October 03, 2011, 12:01:46 AM
 He said food was expensive.  My, oh my.  I just made a trip to the kitchen and had a big bowl of ice cream on top of oatmeal cookies.  The plan is to fatten up for the trip.  I have until 2015 so I am getting an early start.    
Bo, my man:
you SERIOUSLY crack me up !
Love your posts here !

The girl that comes with me to the races is fourteen.  I asked her about her plans after high school. ... "What major?" I asked.  "Biochemistry" she chirped, like she already had given it serious thought.
That girl, Gretchen, is one h*ll of an allmightingly ( that's probably not a word in the English language ) smart girl !!!
Obey her, with all you can possibly give !!!!!!!


Wonder where she got it from......mmmmm.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: dadsolds on October 03, 2011, 11:13:03 AM
Isn't scavenging what you do when you need a part and know you have one somewhere but can't remember in which old coffee can you pitched it?
Or is it the interaction between the returning exhaust pressure waves with the incoming intake charge in the combustion chamber during the in/ex overlap period. It usually has little to do with the displacement of the cylinder but rather the design of the ex system, the shape of the comb. chamber and the design of the intake tract. What you did with the small engine to optimise the intake length, cam timing and exhaust length. All that interaction worked to maximise the scavenging effect to boost torque at a certain rpm.
Or is it when they give you a list of weird stuff and tell you to go and find it.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on October 03, 2011, 08:28:03 PM
Bo,
Panic has a spread sheet program to determine the optimum length for your primary pipes, taking into consideration the valve timing, intake length within the head, and the RPM you want to tune for.  It seemed to work for me, and I ended up with a 22" pipe.  If your pipe is too long, the reversion wave will not arrive back at the exhaust valve at the right time, and with a race cam with lots of overlap, incoming charge can exit straight out the exhaust pipe.  Similarly, with the proper length, a negative wave can arrive just when the exhaust valve opens, which will help to "scavenge" the exhaust gases. (I'm basically just repeating what I believe is the correct analysis.)
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 03, 2011, 10:51:51 PM
Lars, I am not sure about the "obey" part.  We are a typical American family.  The kids are on the bottom rung of the command chain, the husband thinks he is in charge, the wife actually is, and everyone would be better off if they listened to the cat.

This might be another type of scavenging but I am not sure.  Scavenging in this case might be the engine's ability to reach peak horsepower before it hits red line.  I have seen this in the past and the solution was to either increase compression or displacement.

There is new English magazine about racing old bikes.  See www.classicracing.com  The adverts are the most useful part for the old British bike enthusiast.  The Barnes and Noble bookstore carries it here in Oregon.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 04, 2011, 12:28:58 AM
A lot of aluminum is used around here.  The 0.020 sheets for the skin are common and found in hardware stores.  No problems there.  Thicker sheet aluminum, up to 1/4 inch thick, is hard to find in small sizes.  I go to a metal fabricator and look in their supply and scrap bin.  They sell it to me by the pound.  I use enough to be on an "industrial user" account and I get a discount.  The 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch bar stock seen in the photo is not very expensive and I use a lot of it.  I buy standard 12-foot long lengths from the metal fabricator.  They are a metal supplier, too.

It is not economical to buy standard lengths of the larger aluminum bars that I used for the triple clamps, tailpiece end, and the front fairing brackets I will make next week.  I order the larger bar from Fastenal.  They sell it by the foot.  This makes much more sense than buying a full bar when I only need a small piece.

It is very important to use good metal.  Chinese metal can be of awful quality and it should be avoided.  The better suppliers stock metal from reputable sources.  I always ask to make sure.

Alloy is important, too.  The 2" by 2" aluminum bar stock I ordered today is a good example.  It is available in 2024 or 6061 alloys.  Volume 2 of the book "The Racing Motorcycle" by John Bradley has a chapter on aluminum and its alloys.  The major alloying element in the 2000 series is copper and in the 6000 series it is magnesium and silicon.  These additives give the aluminum different properties.

Bradley has a lot of information about these alloys, in summary, the 2024 is heat treatable, has high strength, poor corrosion resistance, does not anodize well, and neither TIG welding, gas welding, or brazing are recommended.   The 6061 is heat treatable, has good corrosion resistance, color anodizes well, has moderate strength, and TIG or brazing are recommended.  Gas welding is "fair."  Strength, weldability, and anodizing are not concerns in this application.  Corrosion resistance is.  These brackets might get salty and 6061 is the choice.  In fact, almost all structural aluminum on this bike is of the 6000 series.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 04, 2011, 11:32:17 PM
The performance shop I work with told me the cams I have are the best ones for an 865 cc engine.  The next hotter cams will make me go slower, they say.  Several years ago I did a bunch of posts about engine math.  In those posts I did the math on a 994 cc big bore kit.  I knew this day would come.  The kit is on the www.triumphperformanceusa.com website and it is listed in the performance parts section for the Bonneville.  High compression pistons are available for this kit beyond the 11.5 ones that come standard.

Plans are to finish the front fairing this year, install a 2 tooth smaller rear sprocket, plug in a Stage 3 ignition module instead of the Stage 2 I have now, and race at BUB in 2012.  This winter I will buy the big bore kit and start collecting all of the seals, gaskets, etc. I need for a rebuild.  The winter of 2012/13 will be devoted to installing the big bore kit.  Cams, etc to match the big bore kit will be done in winter 2013/14.

This is a long time.  My racing budget is $500 a month.  I am not complaining.  How far would that money take me in NASCAR or NHRA?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Unkl Ian on October 05, 2011, 10:53:59 PM
  My racing budget is $500 a month.  I am not complaining. 
How far would that money take me in NASCAR or NHRA?


You could buy tickets for a couple events.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 06, 2011, 12:14:24 AM
There was on the landracing.com webpage a link to Dr Mafy's aero stuff.  It had tables and lists of all sorts of drag coefficients, frontal areas, etc for different vehicles.  I could not find it this evening.  Is that info posted anywhere?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on October 06, 2011, 08:46:35 AM
Good question.  I remember that we've moved things around -- I'lldig and see where it went.  If nothing else I'll ask Mayf (who doesn't visit this site but does watch the land-speed.team.net list) where he's got it.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 07, 2011, 12:00:39 AM
Thanks, Slim.  I am sure you are tired after the World Final fiasco.  Get some rest.  I am in no hurry.

The streamlining rules I race under say that the entire rider must be visible from the side.  This includes my hands so there is a slot in fairing side.  The slot has a round front and I need to bend some bar into the right shape.  A steel ring from an old Yahama crankcase assembling tool will give me the perfect radius.  It will be the mandrel and I will bend the bar around it.

The bar is 6061 aluminum alloy and it has been described in a recent post.  It has a T-6511 temper.  The alloy and temper are printed on the bar.  Bradley has this to say about the T-6000 series tempers.  "Very common.  Product is solution treated and artificially aged (precipitation).  Gives maximum strength but ductility is reduced.  Fatigue life may also be reduced compared to T4 condition.  Often referred to as 'fully heat treated.'"  My triple clamps were made from tempered aluminum billet like this.  I did not do anything in the fabrication process to alter their temper such as welding or heating.  This would reduce the metal's strength and strong triple clamps are best.

I need to heat these bent sections during the forming process.  The aluminum after heating and cooling will have "O" designation temper.  Bradley says about O "Very common.  Fully annealed material.  This is the softest, weakest, most formable condition for the alloy concerned."  This weaker material will not be a problem in this application.

First, I roughly shape the loop with a rebar bender.  Next, I clamp the piece in a big vise.  The chain clamp holds the mandrel against the aluminum bar and the two other bars and c-clamp keep everything in alignment.  The vise is tightened and the bar is bent into a loop.

The tempered bar would spring back quite a bit when the vise is loosened and it would not have the correct shape.  It is annealed to temper designation O with a propane torch to make it relax onto the mandrel.  The torch is moved SLOWLY over the bar on both sides at a rate of 2 to 3 millimeters per second.  I count one alligator, two alligator, etc as I move the torch 2 or 3 mm per alligator.  Finally I let the bar cool.  It expands a tiny amount when I relax the vise, but not much.  This is typical.  Job done. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 12, 2011, 11:40:57 PM
The next two posts shows "putting an engine to bed."  That is what I was taught.  I do not know if there is a proper name for this.  This is best done while the motor is warm after the last run.  I am doing most of it in the Smith's parking lot.  I forgot my top end oil and they had some spray oil in the hardware section.

First, I unscrew both spark plugs and check them for aluminum deposits.  This will tell me how busy I will be over the winter.  Next, I spray some oil down the plug holes to lube the cylinders.  They make oil for this purpose.  I use Marvel Mystery Oil.  My father used it and I need to keep the tradition.  Then, I drain the carbs.  Now, I turn the engine over with the starter and spray oil down the bellmouths.  This lubes the valves.  Last, I grease the plug threads and reinstall the plug using lubricated thread torque.  (About 2/3 to 3/4 of dry torque).

Road dust can travel up the pipes and down the bellmouths.  It sticks to the oily engine parts.  I stuff oily paper towels into the pipes.  The Triumph has air cleaners.  I would stuff the bellmouths if it did not.

Now I remove the chain and soak it in water to dissolve any salt.  Then I dry it in a sunny spot, oil it, and put it in a plastic ag for the winter.  The oil I use is FP-10 Lubricant Elite by Ventco, Inc www.shooters-choice.com  This is good stuff.  The chain looks like new and has no rust after four meets on the salt.  In all cases, it was on the bike, on the salt, for several days without lubing.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 12, 2011, 11:43:12 PM
The other 3 pix.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on October 13, 2011, 08:36:44 AM
Bo, where did you come up with your estimate of how much torque to use on the threads of a lubed spark plug?  I'd like to know if there's an official (so to speak) source of this information.  I ask 'cause when my dad sold for Premier Industrial (makers of fasteners including up to "Supertanium", supposedly at or above grade 8 nuts and bolts) that the lube reduced the needed torque to something less than 25% of what's needed for a dry threaded fastener.

25% or 65% of "normal".  Got some hard and factual information to back it up?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Vinsky on October 13, 2011, 12:22:52 PM
Champions torque specs say that after 'finger tight', which should be the same with or without lube. Then you go 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 more turn. depending
on type of seat, new or old crush washer and so on.
I'll read it again, but o don't think you would want to put a new plug in an aluminum head dry.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on October 13, 2011, 01:56:34 PM
Ah - they don't give a numerical torque value but rather just X turns after Y, another value without numerical definition.  I guess I'll go looking. . . :-)  Thanks anyway.  The only other method of tightening to some specific was given to me by a Chem. Eng. student when I was at Tech.  He was a backyard mechanic and offered, for when using a ratchet-type wrench, that one should do the following procedure"

(sound) widgegiggy, widgegiggy, widdgigiigggy, unh! (The "unh" being the grunt one would make when doing the final tightening stroke).


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 14, 2011, 12:30:57 AM
Three things happen when a bolt is tightened.  Some torque is used to overcome the friction between the bottom of the bolt head and the piece underneath.  More torque is used to overcome the friction between the male and female threads.  The remaining torque is used to stretch the bolt.  it is important to stretch the bolt enough to get the desired clamping force.  Too much stretch will deform the bolt.

Torque figures are for bolts with clean dry threads unless noted otherwise.  The listed values consider the relatively higher friction between dry parts.  Lube on the threads, and especially lube on the threads and head, reduces friction.  As a result, less torque is used to overcome the friction and more is used to stretch the bolt.  Torque figures are reduced to account for lubed threads.  See the chart.  This is where I got the percentages I posted.  I did some division using these values and arrived at the posted averages.  Note that too much tensile force on the bolt is a problem and a worse problem is too much pulling force on the soft female threads in the aluminum head.

I use a 75% reduction for lubed threads if I am too lazy to look in the chart.  It is close enough.  Nothing I work on is the space shuttle.

There are two reasons I lube the plug.  The plug is in a deep well and it collects salty water.  One year a plug was corroded into the head.  The lube prevents this.  The second reason is that plugs are screwed and unscrewed a lot in a race engine and lube reduces wear on the threads.

There is a reason I use a torque wrench.  The "count the turns" method works great instead of the torque method when a new crush washer is used.  Some of the turns are used to squash the washer and others are used to tighten the plug.  The plug is overtightened with the turns procedure if the washer is  crushed from previous use.  I am reinstalling used plugs with squashed washers in the post so I use the torque wrench.

A long post.  Now I know what a spawned out salmon feels like.  It is time for a pre-bedtime beer.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on October 14, 2011, 09:30:21 AM
Everybody is a expert.......just screw it down, and fire it up....it is not rocket science.............................................................................


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 16, 2011, 10:34:43 PM
These metal fairings are not as rigid as they appear and internal braces are a must.  First, I have a lot of metal laying about so I can select a piece of just enough thickness.  There is no need to use overly thick stock because it is all I have.  Second, the braces are carefully thought out so they are in the right location to give strength and not be in the way when I need to do maintenance in the area.  Third, any excess material is milled or drilled off.  These corner brackets for the dashboard are an example.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on October 17, 2011, 06:15:31 PM
Bo,
What is the size of the stock (aluminum?) that you are using?  Is it predrilled or are you drilling it for lightness?  Also, if it is aluminum, what grade, and are you having to anneal it to bend it?  I don't remember having quite that great a  selection in my erector set.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 17, 2011, 10:49:31 PM
The bars are 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch.  The gussets are 1/8-inch plate.  The braces are 0.100 inch plate.  The sheet is 0.020 inch sheet.  I will try 0.015 on the new fairing.

Almost all of the bars, billet, and angles I can get here are T6061.  Magnesium and silicon are the major alloying ingredients.  These are good alloys for general purpose use and they resist corrosion.  Most of these have T6511 temper as supplied.  This is a strong temper and I only anneal them when I am bending around a sharp radius.

Aluminum metallurgy is complex and fascinating.  Try to find Bradley's book "The Racing Motorcycle" Volume 2 used or new on the internet.  He says a lot about alloys, tempers, welding it, etc. in easy to understand language.  For example, from his chart, the 6061 alloy in T6 temper has a 310 newton per square millimeter tensile strength and it drops to 124 N/mm2 when I anneal it to O temper.  This is why I do not anneal the metal unless absolutely necessary.

I drill everything.  Nothing is predrilled

My knowledge about aluminum makes me use friendly, easy to understand, and predictible steel for the steering stem, axles, footpegs, handlebar, swingarm pivot bolt, engine connecting rods, and the frame.  Nuts and bolts, too.



 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 23, 2011, 12:03:07 AM
My middle son is in afganistan.  They captured a couple of people today.  This is unusual.  The taliban usally fight to the death.  Neither of the two spoke afgani and they both had pakistan money.  My son thinks this war is entering a new phase.

On a lighter note.  Here is our 2012 team photo. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 24, 2011, 11:31:09 PM
"The front fairing must start as far forward as possible and should shroud the wheel as mch as possible within the regulations.  Look at the Honda NSR500 and NSR 250 in Fig 4.36" says Bradley in his discussion about streamlining.

The dustbin style fairing used in the 1950's is the most aerodynamically efficient and it encloses and shrouds the front wheel.  The regulations I race under say "A front fender is compulsory..."  This means I must use a more conventional setup.  Sorta like the fronts of the road race bikes in Bradley's two examples.  The front edges of the fairing is shown in the two photos and it will partially enclose the whee.  The drilled bars are where the edges will be.  The opening is big to allow room for the forks and wheel to turn.

The new fairing will allow a lot more air to pass over the engine.  This is good.  The new motor will have a lot more displacement and compression and I need to keep it cool.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on October 25, 2011, 01:52:56 AM
Do the rules specifically rule out a dustbin fairing. You could always run a conventional front fender within the dustbin. When I'm trying to enforce the rules I hate guys like me! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Unkl Ian on October 25, 2011, 02:33:56 PM
For example, from his chart, the 6061 alloy in T6 temper has a 310 newton per square millimeter tensile strength and it drops to 124 N/mm2 when I anneal it to O temper.  This is why I do not anneal the metal unless absolutely necessary.





Welding will do the same thing in the heat affected zone.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on October 25, 2011, 03:47:30 PM
At the BUB Trials one can run a Dustbin fairing, as long as it is mounted even or above the front axcle...(solo bikes only)
Sidecars the Dustbin can be below the front axcle..............................

Even when using a Dustbin I would mount a front fender to keep the salt spray out of your helmet and face.....................................................























Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 25, 2011, 11:47:05 PM
Thanks for the advice about dustbins.  Two questions.  How does air get into the engine bay?  Those things were banned from world road racing due to handling problems.  Did anyone figure out a cure?

I am committed to the current design.  I want to get the frame done so I can take it off and move it indoors before the weather turns real bad.  The skin will be hammered out and riveted on in the warm cellar with some nice music playing.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: bak189 on October 26, 2011, 09:44:13 AM
Dustbin fairings were banned from International Roadracing on solo bikes
for two reasons.......one being cross winds.....but the main reason was
that during a long roadrace exhaust would build up inside the fairing affecting the rider.
If I were to run a dustbin fairing on a solo bike......I would certainly not make a run at any of the LSR events if there was  wind......certainly any cross winds.  We have for many years used a dustbin on our LSR
sidecar outfit......but in the last couple of years on the salt the winds have increased to the point that we feel it is too dangerous to run that type of fairing.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 27, 2011, 12:12:49 AM
Thanks for telling me this bit about history.  I never thought exhaust would be a problem.  Now I see how it could be one.

A comment on the subject of annealing aluminum during welding.  Years ago I was witness to some aluminum chassis fabrication.  The frame and swing arm were sent out to be "pickled."  As best as I know, the chassis was retempered by immersing it in a hot liquid.  Bradley in his book "The Racing Motorcycle" Volume 2 gives a lot of advice about welding and retempering aluminum alloys.

Up here in the woods it is hard to get good advice about anything related to racing.  I read books and magazines to learn.  This was easy when Borders Books was in business.  This was a big book store with an in-house coffee shop.  I could sit down and browse through books and read the tidbits I needed.  They went belly up.  I had to find a new method to get books and I can afford to buy only a portion of the ones I need.  This is what I do now.  An example.

New radial tires are developed with rubber compounds having less internal friction when flexed.  Does this reduce rolling resistance?  This is what I want to know.  First, I look up "Motorcycle Tire" in Wikipedia.  These sentences are in the lengthy article.  "Rolling resistance is the resistance when a tyre rolls on a flat surface.  The rolling resistance coefficients of motorcycle tyres are about 0.02[1]."

The [1] is a link to a reference note.  I click on it and this comes up.  "Cossalter, Vittore (2006), Motorcycle Dynamics (Second Edition ed.) Lulu.com pp 37-72, ISBN 978-1-430300861-4"  THis is the reference note.  It describes the book.  I copy it.

Now I open http://openlibrary.org/  This is an internet library.  I type the ISBN number into the search box.  I separate the numbers with dashes just like on the previous paragraph.

Up pops a few choices.  One is a link to a scanned copy.  There is not one for this book.  I could read it on-line if there was.  That sometimes happens.

Another choice is a list of people who sell the book.  I click on Powells Books.  They are in Portland and if they have a copy on the shelf I can peek inside.  They do not.  The books are in a "remote warehouse." 

A further choice is a list of libraries that have a copy.  There is one in Eugene.  That is not far from my house.  I will go down to the local library, give the librarian the mooneyes, and sweet talk her into getting me a copy on inter-library loan.  She does this sometimes when she feels like it.

A fellow can race when almost broke.  It just takes some creative thinking.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on October 27, 2011, 12:31:14 AM
Sometimes E-Bay works too. It's variable.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Unkl Ian on October 27, 2011, 02:58:09 PM
New radial tires are developed with rubber compounds having less internal friction when flexed.  Does this reduce rolling resistance?  This is what I want to know. 


I think the benefit is in the carcass construction, not the rubber compound.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 31, 2011, 09:33:37 PM
Ian, I think it is silica or something similar in the rubber in addition to the radial carcass.

This is something I learned from Rick Murray.  Rick and his wife, Nida, race a grand prix sidecar at BUB.  These countersunk pop rivets are developed for aircraft and they do not project out into the wind and cause drag.  Today is the first time I have used them.  The picture shows the head shape.

Another picture shows a bar with holes in it.  Every third hole is for a pop rivet.  The larger holes are for weight reduction.  I put a 60 degree wood screw countersink bit in the cordless drill and I bevel each hole.  The bevel works best if I tilt the drill a bit to the side and swing the drill around in a full circle when I am using it.  This gives the bevel a shallower angle than if I go straight in.

The rivets are installed in a picture.  Note how the heads pull the sheet metal down into the bevels.  The rivets do not stick out.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 06, 2011, 12:30:37 AM
It took me forty years to learn this.  A racing fund fat with money is like a lone liberty ship crossing the Atlantic ocean at 5 mph.  There are U-boats everywhere and soon it will be no more.  All sorts of things, cars, stoves, etc. have been financed by my racing money.  Now I am smart.  I get what I need as soon as I get the money together.  The 994 cc billet big bore kit was ordered Friday along with an extra gasket set and gudgeon pin clips.  It was ordered with the special coating that extends its life.  I do not know if these coatings do anything and it was strictly an emotional decision.  I have a lot of money invested in these parts and I want them to last as long as possible.

Fuel makes a lot more sense than blowers or turbos for my budget.  I only race once a year so expensive fuel is no big deal.  This was one of the key factors in the decision to purchase the new jugs.  The new cylinder block is big and strong and there are two piston options, 11.5 to 1 and 14 to 1.  The lower compression ones were ordered.  This is my street bike and I need to be able to run it on pump gas.  The other ones would be suitable for an alcohol motor.

The fairing chin gave me a lot of trouble.  Usually the fairing sides converge to an open "V" at the chin.  This engine is wide down low and I could not make a V.  Also, I like to enclose the bottom of the engine compartment to keep the salt out.  A flat plate across the fairing bottom is not very aerodynamic.  The fairing nose will have a blunt rounded end and a teardrop shape.  I tried to copy that theme for the chin.  The photo shows what I built. 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on November 06, 2011, 07:12:20 AM
Bo,
Great looking metal work.  As I said in my post, I am considering using sheet aluminum for fabricating part of my fairing.  I have a friend, semi-retired, who has worked in sheet metal all his life, but mainly industrial, and some car parts. He has recently purchased an English wheel, so I may be spending some time in his shop.  The problem I see with using fiberglass, is that it first requires a mold of some kind to create it's shape.  Compound curves are of course the hardest to make. I consider myself a Jack of many trades, but bodywork is not one -- at least not yet!

Your view on the "budget" situation is interesting and shows that you have a very understanding partner there (and you do not abuse the privileges).  My situation is a little different.  It's more like that lone liberty ship crossing the Atlantic ocean, with a slow leak!  I sold my business 4 years ago, and retired 2-1/2 years ago.  Now I live off the income from my investments.  Got to keep that leak in check! 
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 07, 2011, 12:29:17 AM
Tom, eventually a mold is needed for metal, too.

There are three types of aero drag that I know about.  Shape drag is influenced by the object's shape.  Interference drag is the subject of a future post.  Surface drag is caused by the surface texture.

Long term followers of this build will have seen three aluminum tail sections, two partial fairing rebuilds, and now a complete fairing makeover.  All are attempts to minimize shape and interference drag.  Eventually I will have the shape where I think it is good.  The mickey mouse aluminum plate method is great for this experimenting.  It is easy to build and modify the shapes.  I can make a fairing and tail with minimal shape and interference drag using this procedure.

Freehand shaping like I use for the plates has its limits.  It is hard to make complex forms with multiple curvatures.  To do this correctly, a hardwood buck is made and the metal is annealed and hammered to shape on the buck.  Then, the individual pieces are trimmed and welded together.  The bucks are a lot of work to make.  It makes sense to do this after the optimum shape is figured out.  The welded fairing will have less surface drag than the riveted one I am making now.

A common problem with a lot of fairings, mine included, is a lack of elbow room.  My arms are inside the original fairing to illustrate the issue.  In practice I had my arms outside of the fairing when I raced, like in the second photo.  This caused turbulence and drag.  The bar under my elbow with the half a pizza shaped aluminum piece on it will be the new fairing edge.  It will be much lower and all of me will fit behind the fairing.  No more arms sticking out.

The rules say the rider must be fully visible from the side while in racing position.  Let's say I do not pay attention to this and I set a record.  A person could file a protest after the race is done.  They probably would have a picture of me riding while partially hidden behind the fairing.  I would not have the time to correct the problem and make another record attempt.  I could lose the record.  I am very careful about following the rules so this does not happen.  These side view photos help me to do this.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on November 07, 2011, 07:54:19 AM
Bo,
You are, of course, running under the FIM rules which are slightly different from the AMA rules.  FIM has no "pushrod" class as such, so a single cylinder 500cc can be overhead cam, 4 valve, etcetera, maybe even 2-stroke.  I did a quick read of the rules and that was my interpretation.  Running an old pushrod motor under these rules seems a little tough, although I can't find all the current records.  Interestingly, the version you gave me said that Tad Meadows has the 500cc non-streamlined record at 108 mph on an old Gold Star (I think).  I am, however, building my bike by the SCTA current rules, which allows more streamlining at the back than the AMA rules, but rumor has it that that will change for 2012.  The current AMA rules allow the following: "With the rider in the racing position, the rider must be able to be seen (hands and arms excluded) entirely from either side."  I interpret this to mean my hands and forearms can be fully faired.

Thanks for the info.

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 07, 2011, 09:25:48 PM
That is the critical thing, knowing the rules.

The pros and cons of running a front fender are always a subject of debate.  There are very fast bikes out there with no front fenders.  Occasionally, like at 2007 BUB, the salt can be wet enough to stick to tires.  This can cause a visibility problem when it flies up and attaches to the face shield.  A front fender is a good idea based on safety, alone.  Front fenders are required on FIM partial streamliners.

Another advantage of a front fender is, with a well designed fairing behind it, it keeps the salt out of the cooling fins on the engine or radiator and it minimizes flying loose salt around the air intake and electrics.  The half moon shape with side panels is especially good at containing the salt and the white stuff is the enemy of reliability.  The critical design point is the bottom of the air hole in the front of the fairing should be above the salt spray zone behind the front wheel.     

The very fast bikes like Warner's Suzuki runway racer use the front fender to an aerodynamic advantage.  It has a wedge shape and it splits the air before it hits the fairing.

The half moon fender will stay on after the front fairing is done.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 10, 2011, 01:20:57 AM
Recently Joe Frazier, the boxer, died.  One of his bouts was broadcast on the telly.  There was a short piece before one of his fights where the boxers were shown in their everyday lives.  Joe had a nice full dress Harley and a camera was mounted on the front.  The producers showed him riding around the countryside.  The view was taken from the bike and one could see the countryside pass by.

That short film made an impression on young me.  The Triumph is not a race bike all of the year.  It has saddlebags and a windshield and I ride it like Joe did.  Just putting around the countryside and nothing fancy, like I have done since I was young.  I have Joe Frazier to thank for showing me how to enjoy a leisurely ride.       
 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 14, 2011, 12:10:37 AM
The bottom left side on the fairing was the weekend's project.  This is a good photo of construction using guide bars.  The vertical bar alongside the skin is the guide bar for shape in the vertical plane.  The thinner horizontal guide bars help me to line up the rows.  I tried to make one big piece instead of the little plates.  It took me all Friday morning to get nowhere.  There are a lot of curves on this fairing and I could not get all of them correct.  I was getting frustrated and I almost drove myself sane.  This fairing will use plates like the old one.

There was a BMW at Cooks Shootout.  It was raced with and without a passenger and the speeds were almost identical.  My guess is the wedge shaped front end made an enormous turbulence pocket around the motorcycle and the passenger was inside this turbulence envelope.  A bike with decent aerodynamics would have attached flow with much less or no turbulence around it.  The passenger would disrupt the the attached flow this would slow it down quite a bit.

The picture also shows how the wider part of the fairing is in front and it tapers toward the rear.  The goal is to have the air attached and flowing parallel to the direction of travel when it passes over the trailing edge of the fairing.  Hopefully it will reattach itself to the tail section.  This is a completely different concept than the BMW's wedge shaped front end.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: gearheadeh on November 14, 2011, 09:15:17 AM
Wobbly,
Keep up the good work, This new fairing ....is it gonna allow for the must see the lower portion of the front tire rule?Do you have an Air power rivet gun? or forearms like Popeye? I like the "Drive yourself sane" Bit! :-D


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 15, 2011, 12:49:52 AM
Thanks for mentioning this.  There are so many rules.  It is hard to remember them all and I forgot about that one.  Yes, I am lucky, half of the tire is visible.  I do not need to redo anything.  Right now I am using a hand riveter.  I will buy a power one after the family forgets about the $2,324 I spent for the big bore kit.  I am keeping a low profile now and not buying anything other than food or beer.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 22, 2011, 01:04:25 AM
This year it looks like the handling problem is fixed and no more weaves or wobbles.  This gives me the green light to start buying the parts for the big motor.  It made no sense to do this until the chassis was sorted.  The big bore cylinders and pistons are on order and I am saving money for the cams, lifters, machine work, gaskets, seals, airfare to Australia, etc.  Target date is 2014 BUB for the big engine debut.

Meanwhile, I am getting the chassis ready for the motor.  The old fairing had a simple rectangular hole cut in the front of it for cooling.  Enough air went through the hole to cool the mildly tuned engines I am running.  The big motor will put out a lot more power, hopefully, and a lot more heat.  This has me worried.  The cylinder head is ported and I do not have a lot of metal between the valves to dissipate heat.  The head might crack between the valve seats if it gets too hot.

There is jumbo size shark that cruises through the water with its huge mouth open and everything in front of it goes in.  This gave me the idea.  The front of the fairing around the cylinder head is shaped to catch air and direct it onto the oil radiator and cylinder head.  The fairing is not done yet, but this first panel shows the idea.  There will be more panels on the front just like it.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on November 22, 2011, 06:20:42 AM
Bo,
Don't forget about rule # 6548 section Z, "The maximum number of pop rivets allowed is 500."

By the way, your favorite author, John Bradley, on page 226 of volume one states "...I made up a simple duct to ensure that the air reached the fins.  As a result the bike would barely run because it would not stay hot enough." 

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on November 22, 2011, 09:48:11 AM
Just remember that any air you direct inside creates drag, offsetting all the work you've done building the fairing. That's why race cars in all classes of road and oval racing have some way of controlling air flow through the cooling system whether it be tape or panel inserts. Make an easy to resize opening and test like you always do.

Forget the shark! KISS!

Looks to me like the trees got in the way of the forest.

Pete

P.S. - Sorry if it sounds harsh, but I'd hate to see you head off in a tangent that created a lot of work that could be invested more constructively elsewhere.

P


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 23, 2011, 12:26:53 AM
I clicked on the sox on cox attachment from Australia and picked up a virus.  It trashed the computer hard drive.  The only thing that works now is Firefox.  This virus got through a Webroot virus protection system.  Youall wont be reading anything I type for awhile.  I need to get my hard drive replaced.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 23, 2011, 04:08:14 PM
I clicked on the sox on cox attachment from Australia and picked up a virus.  It trashed the computer hard drive.  The only thing that works now is Firefox.  This virus got through a Webroot virus protection system.  Youall wont be reading anything I type for awhile.  I need to get my hard drive replaced.

Not sure how to apologise adequately for posting that link Bo. I just googled "Chillipeppers socks" and got that, I opened it at work...on a Citrix system.Our system usually shuts down access on risk pages or throws up a virus warning but there was no alert there. Once again I'm very very sorry if that was the cause.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on November 23, 2011, 06:26:19 PM
I think some of those viruses work on a random basis and while it may have come from there it also may have come from somewhere else and just triggered at that time. I opened it with no unintended consequences.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 24, 2011, 01:59:25 AM
The virus posts a lot of error messages that say your hard drive is failing, etc.  Then, you are blocked from getting into your files and most of your icons disappear.  A popup screen has a little Microsoft flag in the corner and it says it is a "System Fix."  It is impossible to delete the popup.  The screen directs you to do some security scans.  Then it says it cannot fix the system.  It says you need to buy an enhanced version of the program.  The victim orders the program by entering in their credit card number and secret code.  Nothing happens.  The victim has sent in their personal ID to the hacker.  This program caught my wife and she sent in the credit card info.  The virus eventually trashed her hard drive.  We replaced the hard drive and notified the credit people.

I did not know about Rosie's problem when I encountered the virus.  I noticed the little Microsoft flag icon was not correct when I saw the popup.  This told me there was something hokey happening.  I did not send any info and this evening I did a lot of scans, quarantines, and removal with Webroot.  I think I have cleared it from the system.  The computer works, sort of, and there has been a lot of damage.

This is a common virus.  Folks at my job have encountered it, too.  I have no idea where I am getting these viruses and there is no one at fault on Landracing.com, I am sure.  Hopefully this info will help you recognize the virus if your computer gets infected.  Modern life.  Isn't it fun?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on November 24, 2011, 11:47:41 AM
if I don't recognize an email , or who it's from , it gets deleted.
-- before opening.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 29, 2011, 01:50:03 AM
That is my method now, too.  I do not open anything unless I know the person who sends it.

Right now I am having a hard time with the fairing.  Lots of hours are used up with little progress.  The problem is the hole in the front where the wheel sticks down through the fairing.  The hole is very big when I size it to accommodate the wheel swinging through the full steering arc and with full compression on the forks.  The clearance between the top of fender and the fairing edges is the issue.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on November 29, 2011, 06:58:16 AM
Bo,
Can you put some temporary stops on the steering?  10* is all that's allowed for "A" class bikes, and I've not had a problem with that at Bonneville or Loring.  That should make the hole smaller.  On my bike, I am making the fairing without the fender, and I plan to cut away the back part of the fender, as required, to clear the fairing.  I plan a very small hole for air, or NACA ducts on the edges, if necessary.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on November 29, 2011, 07:28:08 AM
Tom
SCTA is  15°   Rule 7.B.19
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on November 29, 2011, 05:31:05 PM
Yes,
I stand corrected, 15 degrees for SCTA.  I can't even find the correct number for AMA!  It is, however, the maximum amount allowed for classes other than Production.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on November 29, 2011, 06:15:32 PM
not sure that a m a even has maximum swing specs for mc front ends.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 55chevr on November 29, 2011, 09:32:19 PM
I dont remmember AMA with a number ... just cant use damper to stop travel


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: joea on November 30, 2011, 12:11:12 AM
wobbly im sure you have already investigated this but wanted to mention
for whatever its worth...:  figure in  some compression of the forks and its
resulting change in fender edge to the hole, and or load the forks now, it can
be quite surprising how much that effects the clearance, much easier to make
accomodations now then later...


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on November 30, 2011, 01:41:24 AM
The intent is to run FIM, AMA, or DLRA.  The DLRA allowed steering swing I do not know.  Some internet research will be done this weekend.

The inside calipers were set at the advertised 120 mm maximum fork travel.  They would not fit between the fender and the fairing in some places.  This showed me that there was a problem.  This evening I put the bike up on the lift, pulled out the fork springs, and put a wagon jack under the front wheel.  The wheel was lifted up to full compression and I swung it around from side to side.

What I saw was baffling.  There were some interference problems and they were in completely different locations than where I anticipated.  A front fender that is closer to the tire will solve a lot of these issues.  It is time to toss the armadillo style oldie and make a new one.  The family objects to this.  They say the goofy front fender is an essential part of the Triumph's identity and I must not get rid of it.  Tomorrow I will set the fork stops at 15 degrees each side and see how things look.

Thanks for the advice, all of you.  I am using it. 

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on December 03, 2011, 12:45:15 AM
Bo
DLRA is  15°   Rule 7.B.19
Yep, same rulebook but for a few headings and Helmet specs

G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 06, 2011, 02:02:56 AM
Thanks, Grumm.  This weekend I will check and make sure it will turn 15 degrees each way.

My laptop was trashed by a phishing virus.  It took awhile to get it working.  I am not a nerdy guy.  A few things I learned.

1)  The garden variety virus protectors do not always protect against phishing.  Mine could not stop the attack.  It did work for scanning and cleaning the system.  I scanned repeatedly until three consecutive scans did not find anything.  Eventually I bought a top grade virus protector that is designed to prevent phishing damage.

2)  The virus protectors capture and quarantine the virus.  It is smart to write down the names of the captured viruses before they are deleted.  This will be handy later.  I used the names to figure out that a phishing attack was the cause of my trouble.

3)  Always check the hard drive condition before assuming it is trashed.  Windows has several tools for checking system health.  All said my hard drive was OK.  It was reprogrammed by the phishing virus and files were deleted.  I reinstalled the operating system and everything works OK.

4)  Internet Explorer has an option that prevents phishing attack.  It is not turned on by default.  A person needs to turn it on.

5)  Avoid all websites with the subject of "animals." 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on December 06, 2011, 06:28:48 AM


5)  Avoid all websites with the subject of "animals." 


Especially those with names like "wobbly walrus!"


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Kiwi Paul on December 07, 2011, 12:10:07 AM
 :-D :-D Another mouthful of Tea gone right out my nose....... :-D :-D :cheers:


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on December 07, 2011, 05:33:08 AM
I'm just using the free version of AVG and it picked up the virus and spat it out into quarantine.
However, I don't use internet explorer as it does stuff without asking. I'm using Firefox.
I also have the automatic updates turned off because they ***t me

As for running DLRA, if you have a SCTA rule book, you will be fine
We realize that we are not the only organization  that runs on a salt lake and so unlike another organization who will remain nameless
we allow people who have an SCTA license to run without having to re license.
Oh and if you want to run a 3 engine motorcycle streamliner over here, http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1314  that's OK too
G




Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 08, 2011, 12:53:15 AM
Thanks, Grumm.  I will get an SCTA rule book.  Hopefully the bike rules are more simple than the car ones.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on December 08, 2011, 03:58:01 AM
Or you could just
http://www.dlra.org.au/rulebook.htm
Never mind
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 09, 2011, 12:35:32 AM
Thanks, Grumm.  I will download it when I figure how to get my computer working OK.  I was planning on running at speed week before AUS.  It would be interesting to pull out a DLRA rule book in the SCTA tech inspection to discuss if something was legal.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on December 09, 2011, 04:53:17 AM
Yep
Funnier still is when you get to tech inspection and get the same inspector you got in Aus :-D
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 12, 2011, 01:35:19 AM
The same inspector would be nice at both events.  Speed week will be 2013 or 2014 and AUS in 2015.

An airplane wing slices through the air.  The air pressure over the curved upper surface is less than the corresponding pressure under the flatter lower surface.  The high pressure air under the wing swirls upward into the low pressure air at the wing tip.  There are swirling eddy currents in the air where the wing tip has passed.

It takes energy to move air.  The household fan is an example.  No air moves unless that rascal is plugged in and turned on.  The swirling eddy currents are air movement, it takes energy to cause them, and this energy loss is interference drag.

The goal of streamlining is to save energy by moving as little air as possible the shortest distance, and energy is saved by minimizing interference drag.  To do this, the surfaces are designed to have similar air pressure on them.  The curvature, texture, length parallel to the flow, and angle to the air flow is as uniform as practical.  It took me a long time and several tries to get concept from theory to bent and mangled sheet metal.  One side of the fairing is made, as shown in the photo.

The steering stops were shimmed to give me 15 degrees of movement on each side.  I sat on the bike and turned the bars.  A little bird on my shoulder said "You have been here before.  You told yourself you would never do it again."  In my distant memory there was a bike with limited steering swing.  It was terrifying to manoeuver around at lower speeds.  I went really slow and paddled a lot to keep it from tipping over.  The steering lock is 25 degrees each way normally and I will keep it that way.  The hole in the fairing is sized to give enough clearance.  The steering is at full lock and the fork is completely compressed in the photo.  There just enough room to accommodate the fender.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on December 12, 2011, 07:14:22 AM
Excellent work, Bo,
I have a couple of thoughts.  A Large hole in the front can cause a lot of drag from what I've read (Bradley, for example).  The famous Can Am 125 didn't have any hole in the front - - it certainly worked for them (of course the motor seized on the return run).  Can you close part of the hole to reduce this drag?  Possibly with some screw-in panels; start without them and watch the temperature gauge.  Then close them up and try again.  NASCAR cars do it with duct tape and it speeds them up.  I don't think it matters what their shape is (curved or flat).
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 12, 2011, 10:12:03 PM
A fellow a few years ago was running a naked Triumph with an engine build similar to the one I am doing.  He forgot to shift into 5th gear and made the run in fourth at high rpm.  The head cracked.  Knowing this, my plan is to run the hole open until I learn how to do data recording and I get some baseline information about engine temps.  Then, after looking at the data, I will close up the hole a bit at a time if I can.

Another thread on this forum discusses crankshaft configuration.  I posted some info about work I did to the Triumph crank to prepare it for high rpm use.  A reply mentioned road racing Triumphs and 10,000 rpm engine use.  It would be unfair to hijack the other fellow's thread.  Info on this subject follows.

Currently my target rpm is 7,500 and the rev limiter is set to 8,400.  This is higher than the standard Triumph factory red line.  It works OK.  These engines are very strong.  Reciprocating engine parts are subject to stresses when they are accelerated and decelerated.  Forces create these stresses and they can be roughly approximated by the equation F = MA where F = force, M = the part's mass, and A = acceleration.   Acceleration can be approximated by A = V**2 / 2g where A = acceleration, V**2  = velocity squared, 2 is what it is, and g = the gravitational constant.  Basic algebra shows that the internal stresses in an engine increase in proportion to the rpm squared.  In other words, doubling the rpm increases the engine stresses fourfold.  This is a rough and simplistic statement.

In these calculations from a few years ago, I see that increasing the engine operating speed 1000 rpm increases stresses 25 percent and increasing the rpm ceiling another 1000 rpm will increase stresses over 50 percent.

Horsepower can be calculated by the equation HP = t x 2 x pi x rpm / 33000 where HP = horsepower, t = torque, 2 = two, pi is pi, and 33000 is a constant.  Assuming that the torque is the same for all engines, some bonehead algebra shows us that horsepower is directly proportional to rpm.  In other words, double the rpm will double the torque.  Again, this is a simplistic statement.

This is some of the most useful info I can calculate.  In Case 2 the engine operating speed is increased 1000 rpm, engine stresses go up 25 percent, and I get 13 percent more power, 77 horses.  In Case 3 the operating rpm is raises another 1,00 rpm, engine stresses go up a whopping 54 percent and I get a measly 86 horsepower. 

Big increases in engine stresses = periodic teardowns and inspection + regular replacement of some very rare and expensive parts.  The roadrace folks do this.  They have no choice.  Some LSR people with big money take this route.  My budget says a higher 8,000 rpm target rpm with a 9,100 rpm redline is OK.  It increases stress about 12 percent and it will give me a few horses.

These simple equations explain why blowers, turbos, fuel, and combinations of all three are so popular.  They can provide much more power than spinning the engine faster.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 15, 2011, 01:32:37 AM
The RPM vs stress calculations showed me that high engine speeds cause greater inertial stresses.  These are the stresses caused by parts moving back and forth.

Therer is another type of stress in an engine and it is caused by the pressure of the combustion in the cylinder.  It compresses the piston crown, the rod, the crank bearings, etc.  These stresses can be reduced by increasing the rpm.  The work of moving the bike is spread over more engine revolutions.

Right now I am planning for a new motor.  The tradeoff of greater inertial loads and reduced combustion pressure loads at increased rpm is keeping me busy. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on December 15, 2011, 08:00:00 AM
"double the rpm will double the torque."  I'm sure you meant "double the rpm will double the horsepower."  Of course this assumes that torque remains the same as the rpm increases.  In real life, torque begins to drop at some point due to reduced efficiency.  Therefore, horsepower doesn't always increase proportionately.  So you have a double wammy -- increased stress without the proportional increased horsepower.  Cubic dollars spent on porting, bigger valves, bigger carbs, different cam timing, more efficient exhaust and so forth sometimes add up to a small gain.  That's life!

Does the Department know you're using their notepads?

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 15, 2011, 08:55:14 PM
The mistake is mine.  I meant to say double the rpm doubles the HP assuming the torque is the same.  Usually I do my calcs on toilet paper in the john.  These notepads are a big step up to classy behavior.

A call from the vendor selling me the big bore cylinders started all of this figuring.  The pistons are custom made and he wanted to know the CR I wanted, 11.5 to 1 or 14 to 1.  The 14 to 1 is the best for a racing engine to be used at B'ville.  It will work well with racing gasoline and the thin air on the flats.  The choice was easy.  11.5 to 1 will work for a street motor near sea level and this is what I chose.  The second question was about ring thickness, 1 mm or 1.5 mm.  I would chooe the thinner rings for a high rpm drag motor or B'ville only engine.  The thin rings resist flutter at high rpm.  I chose the thicker 1.5 mm ones.  They wear better and I will not have a high rpm engine.  The vendor asked what I would be doing with the motor.  I said "street use with annual runs on the salt."  I should have been more specific and told him about the horsepower I wanted and the red line.  Rick Vogelin's "The Step-by-Step Guide to Engine Blueprinting" has a chapter on pistons and rings.  It tells a person about the various setup choices and what they do.

Inspired by all of this, I got out some old calcs and started to do some serious figuring.  I made a lot progress in learning about engines.  I made greater progress in confusing myself.  In a moment of clarity I called Triumph Performance and said "the power and torque curve on your website for the 104 horsepower engine is what I want."  The curve is shown and it is in the "Bonneville" portion of the "Performance" section.  It is for an engine with a big block and a stroker kit.  Mine will have the big block, only.  About 90 hp is all I expect.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 22, 2011, 02:04:00 PM
Happy Holidays from the mouse patrol and Team Go Dog, Go!


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: JimL on December 23, 2011, 06:31:45 PM
I can certainly attest to the difficulty of getting the horsepower gain out of the 5 digit RPMs.  My project is down to jumping compression, shorter tuned lengths, and reducing internal losses.  It is becoming difficult to tell where remaining horsepower may be hidden, because small tuning problems seem to be amplified up there above 10,000 - 11,000 RPM.  Next year will require some changes in the ERC gasoline choice and engine temps.  I dread that experiment (has to happen because I've shortened the stroke.)  It is very hard to find that edge without stepping in cracks a few times, and they don't make parts for my old engines, anymore.

Always fun keeping up with your build!
Regards, JimL


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 24, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
Jim, you are in a more difficult position than I am.  You are exploring the outer limits of those little Honda twins.  The 90 horsepower big bore motor I will be building is a mild engine.  Sometimes I think chopping up one of those new Kawasaki 1,000's into a 500 cc twin might be an answer.  The more I look at that concept, the better it seems.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 26, 2011, 12:27:05 AM
A new windshield was going to be made for the rebuilt fairing.  That was the original plan.  No money for that now and I will try to use the old one.  It is a Triumph windshield that says "PC" near the recycling triangle.  This means polycarbonate, I think.  The new fairing is wider than the old and I need to flatten out the windshield a little bit.

First, I perched it over the wood stove and put a couple of logs in.  The windshield was heated up by the stove and it was warm to the touch.  I spread it apart and it sprung back.

Next, I placed it over an Alladin oil light.  These put out a lot of heat.  I could not get the windshield hot enough to bend and stay bent.

Has anyone bent one of these?  How hot should I get it and how is it usually done?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on December 26, 2011, 01:03:16 AM
Be careful because polycarbonate is Lexan or actually viseversa. It contains water and will bubble before it reaches bending temperature. Scratch one windshield. It requires a slow prebake in an oven to expel the moisture. I've found the required temperatures and times on the internet before. Get Mr. Google busy and follow the instructions or next thing you know you're going to learn how to build a new windshield...................not good.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: thefrenchowl on December 26, 2011, 05:34:55 AM
Hi, wobblywalrus,

You need a lot of heat to de-bend and re-form this screen... ie lots of hair dryers or better, one of those oxy-propane torches they use to braze old tube-in-casting frames. Will work better if you got a hard wood form made to the right pattern and use a flat sheet of lexan that you wrap hot over the form. That's how they make those big double curvature screens for helicopters.

Patrick


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 27, 2011, 01:23:09 AM
We had a barbecue today and I heated up the windshield over the hot coals and tried to bend it.  A small section is crazed.  Either it is water bubbles or the surface melted a little bit.  This is no big loss.  I destroyed the old fairing that used that shield.

My plan now is to find some money and give the job to a professional.  Does anyone know of a racing windshield builder in the Pacific Northwest?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 29, 2011, 09:21:27 PM
The bottom part is done.  About a year and a half ago I posted drawings of egg shaped streamlining in top and side views.  The back part was built last year and this is the front.  The object is to have the widest part of the streamlining in front and to provide coverage for me.

The top view shows the old fairing.  Right now the new one is attached to the old and it is bolted to the bike.  I need to make some brackets and braces.  Then, I can take the old fairing out.  The side view shows the hole in the front.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on December 29, 2011, 09:45:17 PM
We had a barbecue today and I heated up the windshield over the hot coals and tried to bend it.  A small section is crazed.  Either it is water bubbles or the surface melted a little bit.  This is no big loss.  I destroyed the old fairing that used that shield.

My plan now is to find some money and give the job to a professional.  Does anyone know of a racing windshield builder in the Pacific Northwest?

This guy does Lexan windshields and rear hatch glass (using original glass as a form) for race cars.  http://kentplasticsinc.com/ (http://kentplasticsinc.com/).  He can do the rear hatch on my Merkur for ~$250 plus cost of Lexan.  Talked with him yesterday, nice guy.  Maybe he can help you.

Mike


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 01, 2012, 12:49:28 AM
Thanks, Mike.  I will contact him when I get the fairing done enough to remove from the bike and I show it to him.

It is time to make some fairing brackets.  There are two choices for the aluminum, 2024, an alloy with copper as a main ingredient, and 6061, an alloy with magnesium and silicon as primary alloying ingredients.  The 2024 is very strong with poor corrosion resistance and fair machinability.  The 6061 is strong enough and it has good corrosion resistance and very good machinability.  I order a 13-inch long stick of 6061 from Fastenal.  My machine tools are a Sawzall, an air grinder, some files, and an old drill press.  Hole saws are used for the fancy work.  Here are some tricks to make this hole saw magic happen.

First, select a hole saw with a set to the teeth.  The groove it makes is wider than the saw barrel and it will not bind as easily.  Ace Hardware hole saws are made in the US and the teeth have a lot of set.

Second, use the pilot drill to get the saw started, then take it out.  The drill creates a lot of drag and makes cutting harder.

Third, use a slow speed and lubricant.  This will keep the saw from packing up with aluminum and binding.  Kerosene is a good lube but it smells bad.  I use the odorless kerosene made for kerosene lamps.

The bar will make two brackets.  I do not detach them until the very last step.  It is a lot easier to clamp the part down if it is longer.

Happy New Year.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 01, 2012, 11:24:57 PM
Ham fisted guys in a hurry cause themselves problems.  I broke a tap.  A #10-28.  Here is what I did.

First, I drill down each top flute with a small drill, a 1/32.  This is delicate work and it cannot be rushed.

Second, the holes are enlarged with a the 3/64 drill.  The objective is to remove some of the metal around the tap.

Third, I try to turn the tap into the holes with a center punch.  The tap does not move.  The top breaks off.  This is OK.

Last, I set the anvil on the thickest part of the concrete floor and I put the part on the anvil.  I need hard support that will reflect, not absorb, a shock.  Now I put a 1/8 drift punch over the remaining tap and give it a sharp whack.  It crumbles and falls out of the hole.  Tap steel is brittle and I shattered it.  This part of the job is done.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 01, 2012, 11:39:31 PM
Now I scrounge through the insert box.  A #10 insert has threads 3/8 wide.  This is too big and it will weaken the part.  A heli-coil will work.  It is New Years Day and the stores are closed.  I will need a tap and insert tool, too, and this will cost money.  It is time for Plan C.

The outside diameter of #10 threads is 0.1900.  The inside diameter of 5/16 x 24 threads is 0.2720.  The difference between the two divided by two is 0.041 inches.  This will be the minimum thickness of a homemade insert.  It is enough.  The outside diameter of the insert is 5/16 inches.  This is small enough to not weaken the part.

I look for a 5/16 x 24 bolt.  There is a nice new 8mm x 1.25 mm one in the can.  It is close enough to correct.  I will use it.  Now I need to mark the center of the end.  A divider is set at about 1/2 the bolt diameter and I scribe a bunch of arcs across the bole end.  Where these arcs cross each other is the middle.  I penile device punch there. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 01, 2012, 11:47:53 PM
Now I put a nut on the bolt and tighten it in the drill press chuck with the threaded end down.  I put a 1/64 pilot drill in the machinist vice pointing straight up.  Now I turn on the press and pull the spinning bolt down onto the stationary drill.  I repeat with the #21 pilot drill for the #10-28 threads.  The spinning bolt self centers the drill so it goes straight down the middle.  I drill all of the way through the bolt.  This makes it easier to keep clean when it is tapped.  I blow the chips out through the open end with compressed air.  Now I tap the inside of the bolt with a #10 x 28 tap.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 01, 2012, 11:54:41 PM
Now I tap the part with a 8 mm x 1.25 mm tap.  I do not tap full depth threads throughout.  The last thread is partial depth.  It will clamp onto the insert and hold it in place.  Now I screw in the bolt with some red loctite on it.  It is turned until the threaded end is flush with the bottom of the threaded hole.  Next, I cut the hex head end off with a sawzall and file everything flush and flat.  Job done and time for a cool and foamy beer...or two.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 03, 2012, 11:00:20 PM
One of the brackets is done.  Stainless steel fasteners are great.  They do not get rusty.  A problem with using them in aluminum is corrosion.  Salty water will get in the threads between the aluminum and the stainless, the aluminum will corrode, and the fastener will seize solid.  Blue loctite or anti seize has helped to prevent this corrosion in the past.

Now, when I can, I use stainless steel studs with stainless nuts.  No corrosion issues.  I use loctite where the stud is screwed into the aluminum to control corrosion there.

Extra holes are included on the bracket.  I might want to add or change something later and these will be handy.

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on January 04, 2012, 12:38:54 AM
Always use anti-seize or Loctite on stainless to stainless fasteners. The nuts love to gall on the bolts.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 06, 2012, 11:37:26 PM
Thanks, Peter.  I will use the weaker blue locktite on the nut-to-stud connection and the strong red stuff on the stud-to-part threads.

Do any of you remember your first long road trip?  My oldest girl an one of her friends left for Fort Drum in New York on the 2nd.  Her husband is in the 10th Mountain Division and she will meet him when he comes back from the big litter box.  Two girls, one little Toyota, five days and and $600 is what it took.  Her smile says it all.  There is nothing like that that first one.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 09, 2012, 12:19:00 AM
The brackets are done.  Now it is time to make the braces between the brackets and the supported parts.  Mos of us most of the time will measure the distances between the parts with a ruler or tape, write them down, and use the ruler or tape to lay them out on the metal to be cut.  There are multiple opportunities to screw things up with this method.

Chances for error are reduced if trammels or a divider are used to transfer the dimensions directly from the vehicle to the metal.  Here is how it works.  First, I spread the trammel or dividers so they span the distance between the holes on the future brace.  Next, I move the tools from the vehicle to the brace using care to not unadjust them.  Last, I mark the distance between the holes on the metal to be drilled and cut.  The first photo shows a distance being recorded with trammels.  The second shows the trammels being used to lay out the distance on the metal, and the third shows machinist dividers.

Trammels are used by cabinet makers and finish carpenters.  Look for them at a woodworkers supply.  The set shown here works very well.  They are Precision Trammels, Model 520, by General Tools Manufacturing Company, Inc. in New York City, New York.  I bought these before computers and there is no internet address on the box.  General Tool is still in business.

This method can be used for a bent brace, too.  Bend the brace first, then transfer the distances to it as shown in the photo. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 09, 2012, 08:27:06 PM
How do you insert a link?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on January 09, 2012, 08:53:27 PM
Cut and paste (or type) the link into the edit box.  Highlight it, then click the third from the left icon in the bottom row (it will say "Insert Hyperlink" when you mouse-over) directly above the edit box.

Mike


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 10, 2012, 01:44:05 AM
Thanks Mike.  I will try it tomorrow.

The only way to figure out the best spark advance curve for a bike engine is experience and lots of trial and error on a dyno.  I have neither.  Triumph Performance has developed an advance curve for 865 cc engines with the #813 cams like I have.  It is the Stage III curve.  The igniter box on these bikes controls the spark advance.  I boxed one of mine up and sent it to TP for reprogramming.  This should give me a horsepower or two.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 10, 2012, 11:07:12 PM
The intake valve opens on the Triumph.  This creates a low pressure area at the intake valve and it sends a vacuum wave out toward the inlet end of the intake tract.  The wave goes through the carb venturi and it reaches the end of the velocity stack.  The stack opens into an empty area and the wave is reflected back to the valve as a pressure wave.  An open pipe end reverses the wave direction and polarity.  The pressure wave arrives just before the valve closes and it pushes additional fresh fuel air mixture into the combustion chamber before the intake valve slams shut.

This simplistic explanation describes a phenomenon that would happen if I had a very long intake tract.  In reality, I do not.  I have a short tract and the wave must bounce back and forth several times before it hits the intake valve at the right moment.  The pressure wave hits the closed intake valve a few times.  This is a closed pipe end and it reverses the wave direction but not its polarity.  A pressure wave is reflected as a pressure wave.

The waves travel at the speed of sound and the engine rpm varies.  This means that these waves will help me in a narrow rpm range.  I need to tune the inlet tract so everything is in harmony at the desired rpm range.  I do this by adjusting the inlet tract length.  This controls the length of the bounce and the instant it hits the intake valve.  A short tract causes more frequent bounces and a long tract makes fewer.

There are some good theoretical equations for determining the length.  I need to know the speed of sound in the inlet tract, the inlet tract length, the desired rpm, the intake cam timing, and the inlet tract diameter.  This input data is problematic.  It is hard to determine the reflective length of a curved inlet tract with complex shape around multiple inlet valves.  Any errors of estimate are compounded because the waves go back and forth several times.  The speed of sound is dependent on gas temperature and this is hard to estimate.

No equations, no matter how good, can give accurate predictions if the input is garbage.  I have never got the equations to work well.  My inlet tract tuning method is trial and error on a dyno.  The next few posts will explain how I do it. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 11, 2012, 11:52:57 PM
The inlet calculations I did in 2010 are redone so they are legible.  Tuning for the third bounce can be done within the space constraints of the Triumph.  The first try uses 1100 feet per second for the speed of sound.  Many reputable tuners use this value.  It is the speed of sound in 45 degree air.  Some tuner use 1300 feet per second.  This is the speed of sound in 245 degree air.  Note how the sound speed makes a big difference on the inlet tuned length calculations.

Both pages will be posted separately so they will be large enough to read.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 11, 2012, 11:54:06 PM
This is the second page.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on January 12, 2012, 09:25:21 AM
Bo,
I note that you are using 7000 rpm in your calculations. If your maximum horsepower is indicated at 8000 rpm, and you are gearing for this, then I think you should use 8000 instead of 7000.  You have a couple of miles or more to get up to speed and you need that last little bit of HP to get maximum speed.  Otherwise, as you pass the 7000 rpm figure, the wave will become less effective.  I applied the same logic to the length of the primary exhaust pipe.
For your intake, you can vary the length in the intake manifold, or by changing the length of the air horn on the carburetor - - it theoretically does the same thing, only sometimes more easily.  As for using the 3rd harmonic, it is sometimes still too long to be practical.  I think I calculated mine using the 5th harmonic, and came out with something like 8 inches, depending on whose online intake length calculator I used.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on January 12, 2012, 02:47:29 PM
For some reason I am not given the option of correcting my last post.  I have read back over your diary and now realize the big Triumph twin with your cam seems to actually develop maximum HP at less than 7000 rpm.  Therefore, your calcs are close.  My point was to try to tune everything for the rpm at which your motor makes maximum horsepower, and then gear to be at full speed at this RPM.  There is no point in overrevving past your maximum hp-rpm number unless you happen to get a nice tail wind and then you take advantage of it.  If your motor is making 90 hp at 6800 rpm, but only 88 hp at 7000, try dropping a tooth at the rear and run again.  My 2c worth.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 12, 2012, 02:55:14 PM
Tom - the reason you can't edit a post is because there's a setting in the software that limits the time during which you can make changes - to 4 hours after the post is first made.  That's there, I believe, to prevent people from making comments that might be made in the heat of an argument or inflammatory - - and then removed a day or two later when they decide that they've spread enough ill will.  while the time is variable -- I haven't felt a swell of need to change it nor to delete it.  I have occasionally been asked to make an edit or even to delete a post -- which help I've always given.

There - that's the story.  If you've got further to discuss - either start a topic on the website general suggestions topic - or get back to me off this thread.  Use email or PM, please.  Regards from Skandia, Michigan, where we're in the middle of a two-day "winter storm warning" with up to a foot of snow forecast. :-D


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on January 13, 2012, 09:07:29 AM
Jon,
Not a big deal.  I try not to put my foot in my mouth too often, but sometimes I start typing before I put my brain in gear!

Sorry to hear about your storm warnings there in Michigan. I'm sitting on my sun porch here in Deerfield, Nova Scotia (near Yarmouth), looking out across a 90% ice free lake, with only a smattering of wet snow on the ground. I haven't had the snow blade out yet this winter, and the average temperature in December was 31* F.  Unusual winter, for sure.  Some of us actually look forward to this global warming.

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 13, 2012, 11:43:20 PM
Tom, I am doing exactly what you say.  I gear to run 7,500 rpm through the mile and I am trying to move the peak horsepower up to that rpm.  It is a 500 rpm shift and I can do it with intake and exhaust tuning and a different spark advance curve.  I hope.

All of this intake theory study is paying off.  I am hesitant to rely on calculations alone to tell me the correct runner length.  This is what the theory and math are telling me.

1)  Tuned length is not significantly affected by cylinder size.  I do not need to change the runner length when I go from 865 cc to 996 cc.  This is a good thing.

2)  Cam timing does change runner length.  I will need to adjust the length when I go from the 813 cam to the more radical one.  The length change is expected to be reliably calculated by the equations.  No need for an additional session of tuned length dyno testing when I fit the bumpier cam.

3)  Intake air temp significantly changes the optimal tuned length.  I need to get my cold air intakes done before the dyno work.  Also, I need to develop some length correction factors for running on exceptionally hot and cold days.  Also, I need to figure a way to adjust easily adjust the runner length on the salt.

I thought the bike would be as fast as it would go and built in five years.  It is seven years and I am just getting started on figuring out a bonehead simple NA motor.  A crazy hobby.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on January 14, 2012, 09:18:18 AM
Bo,
You and I are on the same wavelength.  I agree with your procedure, except for the part about not requiring new Dyno testing.  The great white dyno in Utah will give the best results, but it's expensive for the few runs you'll get, and it maybe difficult to assess small changes.  The real dynomometer may seem expensive, but if you have easy access to one, you should probably book some time to arrive at a starting point for jetting, timing, and to assess the new intake length with the new cam.  I hope to be able to do so but the nearest one here in NS is at least 200 miles from me.  I hope to do my final dyno work at Dan Dunn's shop in Longmont, Colorado.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 55chevr on January 14, 2012, 04:46:48 PM
Tom - Dan runs our bikes through the dyno before Bonneville.  Since he is Longmont Co. it is 5000' which works really well for Bonneville and he knows how to tune. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 15, 2012, 01:23:39 AM
Yesterday was Friday the 13th.  It was 10 minutes until I was going to turn the lights out and go to bed.  The lousy minutes.  I decided to take a picture of something I am machining.  I picked up the camera off of the work bench and heard something hit the floor.  It landed with a dull thwack.  My dial caliper.  There are some nights a fellow is better off if he goes to bed early.  On Friday the 13th maybe I should stay in bed.

The intake length formulae give me all sorts of intake lengths.  They are consistent with each other on one thing.  I need to shorten the inlet tract to move the torque peak higher.  Also, an inch shorter is the usual answer.  It is time for some ABBA dyno testing.  This is when setup A is tested first with one pull, setup B is tested with two pulls, and setup A is tested one more time.

Setup A is what I am running now.  The air cleaners fit under the side covers and the tuned length matches the cam.  It produces good power for street use.  The air cleaner and velocity stack are shown.  The stack is 40 mm long.  The tuned length is measured from the valve seat to the where there is a significant change in cross-section at the upstream end of the tract.  In this case it is where the foam begins in the air cleaner.  The tuned length of the stack with the filter is 56 mm.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 15, 2012, 12:07:48 PM
The B setup is the orange plastic stack.  It is 35 mm long and the tuned length is about an inch shorter than the A setup.  Everything for A are B are in the carb kit from Triumph Performance.  The ABBA dyno curves are shown.  These are averages of two pulls each so they are drawn by hand.

Years ago I asked Matt Capri about intakes for my bike.  He said the shorter the better and shape is important.  Matt's NA bike had odd looking stacks shaped like little trumpet bells.  The stacks I was using then were short enough.  They are sharp edged, unlike Matt's.  They are shown in the photo and they were hammered out of copper water pipe.

The sharp edge hurts performance.  There can be a ring of turbulent are inside the stack at the inlet edge during high air flow.  This ring of swirling air blocks flow into the stack at the edge and the flow is concentrated in the center.  This prevents proper fuel atomization with the very short stacks I use.  The proper intake edge shape is the rounded one on the orange stack.  The orange stack gives me what I want.  It is more torque at high rpm.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 16, 2012, 11:45:47 AM
The B setup gives me a little bit more torque at higher rpm and a few horsepower. The inlet changes I will do give a small advantage for this mildly tuned 865cc motor.  The big 996 motor will use the same carbs and filters.  These small changes are expected to be more of a benefit for the big bore engine.

The 39 mm FCR flatslides have the same 36mm choke diameter as the standard CVK carbs.  They are not any larger.  They do not have the restrictive throttle plates in the bores, there are all sorts of jets and other parts available, and there are special parts for alcohol fuel.  These are the 39mm flatslide advantages.  The first photo is from a page on the SUDCO on-line catalog.  It shows bellmouths for the FCR.  Shorter bellmouths with good flow characteristics are what I want.  I order the ones shown.

It would be easy to order bigger foam filters and simply clamp them onto the bells.  One big goal is to have the waves in the inlet tracts inverted and reflected by the bell openings and not by the foam-rubber interfaces in the filters.  A large and abrupt expansion in cross-sectional areas at the bellmouths will assure this happens.  Annular rings are made and attached to the bells with JB Weld.  The ring and bell separately and together are shown in the second photo.   



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on January 17, 2012, 01:22:19 PM
Wobbly, some things to think about if you haven’t already--

Using your 6ms inlet flow duration and about 500cc’s per cylinder, the average flow rate (assuming 100% volumetric efficiency) during induction would be about 83 liters/second, 3 cu. ft/s, or about 180 cfm.  What is the pressure drop across the the air filter at those or, more likely, higher flow rates?  Might want to consider a plenum of some sort, the bigger the better, and then the filter(s), the bigger the better.

Inlet tract wave interactions (reflections and transmissions) will occur to some degree at any change of area, including tapers.  What are the diameters of the port, runner, venturi, inlet bell?  Are they consistent or all different?  Energy is lost at each interaction as well as along the way.  Different areas everywhere will likely just make hash out of the effort to tune the inlet.  Also, the primary reflection is the strongest with each successive round trip less effective.  Can you stretch it out to use the second?  Straight is nice, but not necessarily required.

If you are not already aware of Gordon Blair’s book, Design and Simulation of Four-Stroke Engines, ISBN 0-7680-0440-3, you would probably find a lot to muse over about engines, particularly the gas dynamics of inlet and exhaust systems.  While much of the underpinings of the book utilize somewhat advanced mathematics, there are also considerable qualitative descriptions and examples, and a section on using simplified empirical methods, such as what you have alluded to using so far.  And Blair seems to have had a particular affinity for British twins.   It may also provide points to be aware of when considering peculiar or unexpected dyno results.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 17, 2012, 10:34:07 PM
Thanks for the advice.  An oiled foam air filter will support 3.5 horsepower per square inch filter area, according to David Vizard in "How to Build Horsepower."  The small filters I have will support 250 hp and the big ones will handle 322 hp.  That is plenty of capacity.  I am OK there.

There were some aftermarket carb inlets on the bike.  They did not match the ported inlet tracts.  Too small diameter.  Years ago I enlarged and polished the stock ones so they match the ports perfectly.  I found them in the bone pile and put them back on.  I am good in that area.

The A setup gave me 69.7 hp and the mixture was jetted for maximum power.  It was 16.4 to 1 at 6,000 rpm and it richened to 13.8 to 1 at 8,000 rpm.  The B setup gives 74.3 hp and the mixture is 15.9 to 1 at 6K and it dropped to 15.0 to 1 at 8K.  The feeling at the time was the B setup would give me even more hp if I was jetted to the best power mix ratio.  It was late and we were tired.  We did not do this.  I am confident that I am tuning to the third bounce, and maybe the fourth.  The big motor will be my retirement project.  I will experiment with the second bounce tuning then, when I have more time and lots less money.

Let me know if you see an extra copy of that book floating around.  I will buy it.

Thanks for the advice.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on January 18, 2012, 04:20:10 AM
Wobbly, try E-bay for the book. I've had amazing success that way.

It might be worth doing back to back tests on the dyno with and without your air filters. I found late model racing that the results aren't always as predicted and that the oiling of the filters is really critical. Only a little too much kills efficiency.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on January 18, 2012, 09:11:29 PM
Wobbly,
I found a cache of articles written by Prof. Blair on the website below which can be downloaded in pdf form.  I would have attached a couple of them here but they are a little too big to suit Jon’s attaching criteria.  They would give you a sense of the kinds of materials that are in the book.  I would suggest the September 2006 “Best Bell” and Dec/Jan 2008 “Back to Basics” to start with--or whichever of the others you might find interesting.  You have to pay attention when you are reading them.

http://www.profblairandassociates.com/RET_Articles.html


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 19, 2012, 01:08:42 AM
Thanks, Peter, and Observer.  I will do som dyno comparison.  In the old days when that blue Bel-Ray foam filter oil came onto the market we had problems with over oiling.  That oil is real gooey.  This is what we did then.  Wash the filter and oil it according to instructions.  Wash it again and let it dry.  There will be enough residual oil in the filter for a race.  Do not do the second wash for road bikes or dirt bikes.  It worked last year.  There was some salt on the outside of the filter and none went through, as best as I can tell.  I will do some dyno testing and I will order the book.  The "pay attention" aspect will be difficult.

I order just enough stock to make the rings as shown in the blurry photo.  The ring outlines are scratched onto the metal and it is drilled, tapped, and attached to a plate scrap with countersunk screws.  The screws are located out of the path of the cutter.  The plate will be bolted down to the press table.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 20, 2012, 01:09:52 AM
The drill press table is checked to make sure it is not tilted and the tilt clamp is tight.  The swing clamp is loosened, the chuck teeth are retracted, and a bearing ball is placed in the hole in the table center.  The chuck is pulled down tight over the ball and the motor is turned on for a fraction of a second.  Now the table and chuck rotation centers are aligned.

A pair of 1/16 pilot holes are drilled into the stock at the ring centers.  This is followed by a 1/4 drill.  The bigger holes are not through the part.  About halfway is OK.

The drill is removed and an old cutter with a 1/4 shank is turned upside down and chucked tight.  The chuck is lowered onto the part and the shank is in the 1/4 hole at the ring center.  Now the table, chuck, and ring rotation centers are aligned.   



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 22, 2012, 01:10:34 AM
The drill stop is shown in the first photo.  This is what I use to lock the drill press spindle at various heights.

An outside caliper is tightened down on to the plate.  One side of the caliper is on top of the plate and the other is on the bottom of the plate in the groove on the table.  The caliper is used to mark where the groove is on the plate.

Holes are drilled in the plate and it is bolted down.  The back end of a cutter in the chuck and the hole in the center of the ring are used to check if the plate is centered.  Previous photo Intake Mods 13 showed how I do this.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 23, 2012, 12:35:08 AM
Now it is time to machine the rings.  There are three clamps I looses and tighten.  ONLY ONE is loose at any one time.  The clamps are the depth stop that controls the cutter height, the table swing clamp, and the table rotation clamp.

A dial indicator is set up on the table.  This will tell me the distance the table is swung.

The table is swung to the side and the swing clamp is clamped.  The drill press is turned on, the cutter is lowered, and the spindle housing is clamped at the desired depth.  The table rotation clamp is loosened and the table is rotated to make a curcular cut.

Small cuts are made and the cutter speed is set to minimize chattering.  Sometimes I rest both hands on the table to minimize chatter.  It is a cold day when the picture was taken and I am wearing gloves. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on January 23, 2012, 01:18:01 AM
Be very, very careful wearing gloves around rotating machinery. They start to get wrapped up really quickly at the most inconvenient times and they aren't as easy to get out of under those circumstances as you might think. The results are often not very pretty.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 24, 2012, 01:21:43 AM
You are right, Peter.  It was real cold and that was the first time I wore them.  It will be a bad habit I will not start.  No more gloves.

Drama is fun to watch when others are the subjects.  It is no fun for a fellow doing machine work.  In the past there have been some thrilling moments when the final cut is made and the part and stock seperate.  Suddenly there is a loose object in the vicinity of a rotating cutter, like what happens in a mill, or a loose rotating part near a stationary bit, as with a lathe.

This habit I developed over the years.  The final cut does not seperate the parts.  I take the whole piece off of the machine tool and I do the final seperation by hand.  Its safer that way.

The intake mods are done.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 26, 2012, 12:41:45 AM
One cylinder was running richer than the other last year at Bonneville.  The carbs are off and I checked a few things.  One main jet was too big.  This has been a problem for me before.  Non OEM main jets can have their own numbering system and some are not the size that is stamped on the side.  Using OEM jets prevents this and it is what I do.  Sometimes a person will bore out a main jet and forget it is larger than it says and it gets mixed up with the rest.  I bring my own virgin main jets to the dyno sessions to prevent this.  The bad jet was a new OEM one.  I will check them too in the future.

I get a few jets from my supply that are stamped the same size, a couple that are one size bigger, and two that are one size smaller.  Then, I stick a carpet needle in each one and compare how far it goes in.  The needle goes farther into a larger jet.  This shows me which jet is too big or too small.

It is time to order some bigger jets for this year's dyno work and it will be a good time to order float valves for the big 996 cc engine.  There is a chart on page 13 of http://factorypro.com/tech/carbkei.html  It shows the float valves sizes that are needed for various horsepowers.  The Triumph will produce near 100 hp or 50 hp per cylinder.  This takes a 3.2 mm float valve based on the chart.  The float valves in the carb are stamped with the size and they are 3.4 mm so I do not need new ones.  A company in Oregon near where I live gives me good mail order service for carb parts.  They are pjmotorsports.com  The Keihin FCR flatslides are good racing carbs.  There are all sorts of parts for them and they are readily available.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 26, 2012, 08:44:58 AM
Hi wobblywalrus

Am I wrong in thinking that 2 jets of the same actual physical diameter will not pass the same amount of fuel due to machining tolerances, degree of finish, varrying efficiency of the 2 venturis, etc..., hence 2 jets with the same number on the side, usually related to their same flow rate on the same flow bench, will indeed not necesseraly have the same diameter?

Patrick


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 28, 2012, 01:53:10 AM
Hi Patrick.  The needle test seems to work for these Keihin jets.  The hole size and flow rate are closely related as best as I can tell.  The AMAL main jets are flow bench tested and, like you say, they can sometimes have different hole sizes with the same flow rates.  Almost all of my good experience is with AMALs or Keihins and I do not know much about other carbs.

The picture of the road race bike on fire in the fuel line thread made me concerned.  Maj has a good idea with the double protection.  After work I went to performance Racing Equipment in Salem and asked Steve for advice.  He specializes in Aeroquip.  These are some of the things I bought.  One is a fuel line with braided stainless steel wire.  The other is a hillbilly style bolted connector.  It looks like a bolt on the outside and there are no threads.  Inside, almost hidden from view, is a hose clamp.  Steve made this little U tube.  It takes the place of a big looping section of hose.  Tomorrow I will fit everything up.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: oz on January 28, 2012, 03:00:48 AM
Nice work dude


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 29, 2012, 01:05:39 AM
Oz, being sorta low on cash, I can spend a lot of time perfecting the little details.  A lot of us are in this pot of stew.

One hose was too long and Steve told me how to cut it.  First, I wrapped about 2 to 3 feet of electrical tape over the cut line real tight.  Then, I cut the hose through the middle of the taped section with a ceramic cutoff wheel.  I used a wheel on my angle grinder.  It stank like the starting line at a drag strip from the burning tape rubber.  This method made a clean cut.  Steve also told me to make sure to clean out the inside of the hose before I use it.  I did this.  Burnt rubber crumbs and wire fragments were inside.

The picture shows the completed hoses.  The blue caps are covering hose clamps.  The main line is a longer version of the short line and it has a fire sleeve.  The side view shows the fuel line going up and under the tank.  I will figure out a better way to route it some day.

This was easy to do and it is OK for a gravity fed fuel system.  I would use threaded and welded fittings if it was pressurized.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 03, 2012, 12:03:42 AM
The next few posts are Triumphcentric.  They summarize what I have learned about this particular bike.  Folks with new Bonnevilles may benefit.  Most of the rest of you can hit the ignore button.

The inlet tract has a hole at each end.  One is a nice round opening and it is always open.  The other end is closed most of the time and when it is open it is cluttered up with all sorts of obstructions like valves, valve stems, and valve guide bosses.  It is obvious which end is the most restrictive - it is the end with the valves.  Experience has taught me this is the first location to consider for tuning.

There are various options for the Triumph.  Larger inlet valves are available from Black Diamond, Triumph performance, and others.  Inlet valves in 1 mm and 2 mm larger diameters were available years ago when I had the head work done.  Now larger sizes are available.  The 2 mm oversize worked great with the standard Triumph pistons.  There were no clearance problems.

The inlet valve seats need to be reworked to fit the larger intake valves.  When this was done I had all of the seats redone with a five angle valve job.  Flow around the inlet valve is enhanced by this.  Most performance shops can do this.  The head was ported when the valve work was done.  Triumph Performance did it and others offer similar services.

These bikes are sluggish in standard form.  This porting and valve work makes them come to life.  An excellent street engine was all standard Triumph 790 cc parts except for this head work, a black box equivalent to the Triumph Performance Stage II, Triumph off road mufflers, and the standard air box with the baffle plate and snorkel removed.  The engine with louder Norman Hyde mufflers and velocity stacks ran in the 120's at Bonneville.

     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 05, 2012, 01:04:21 AM
The air filter is at the other end of the inlet tract.  Years ago I showed a picture of one of the original pistons fitted by Triumph when the bike was made.  It had made ten runs down the salt and about 20,000 street miles.  There was a small horizontal hairline crack on a piston skirt midway up from the bottom.  There was a reinforcing rib on the inside of the skirt at that spot.  There was also bore and skirt wear caused by airborne contamination.

Salt was the cause of the bore and skirt wear, and excess rpm created the crack, I said.  I was wrong on both.  Some knowledgeable people looked at the parts.  It was too much wear for salt to be the cause.  Dirt was getting into the engine.  The worn piston was rocking in the bore and the crack was due to stress and fatigue from the piston rattling around.

These bikes have nakasil bores and good quality, but restrictive, paper filters.  Normal piston life is well over 50,000 miles.  I was using oiled gauze filters, both in the standard airbox and as pod filters. 

Someone on this forum occasionally says "What are you going to do different?  The oiled gauze filters were not working.  Oiled foam filters give me great filtering on my dirt bike.  Nothing gets past them.  Now I run oiled foam filters all of the time on the street or on the salt.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 05, 2012, 10:47:52 PM
More Triumph specific stuff.

The theme of this build is "street roadster."  The carb setups that I run on the street are used on the salt with no changes.  The main jets are set for Bonneville and the rest of the jetting is set for the street.  This works well.  This is a powerful bike and I can do everything I need to do on the road without using the main jets.

The production engine class rules require OEM carb bodies.  This bike has 36 mm Keihin CVK constant velocity carbs.  They are sorta altitude compensating and they are good for the street in the western US.  There are lots of mountains everywhere and a fellow will cross many high passes in a days riding.  The drawback to the CVK's is the lack of tuning parts such as bigger float bowl needle valves, attachable air horns and filter adapters, etc.  They are also very expensive to replace.  I have not bored these carbs bigger for these reasons.  The only modification is to bore the little holes in the vacuum slides to bigger little holes.  Instructions are in the tuning guide on the "Jenks Bolts" website.

Lots of filter setups have been tried over the years.  Pod filters of any sort do not help these carbs.  They work well with open clamp-on velocity stacks or the standard air box.  A modified air box is what I use.  Inside is a filter.  I remove the internal restrictor plate and the snorkel on the inlet.  In place of the snorkel is a Norman Hyde bellmouth.  There is enough metal on the Hyde bellmouth to withstand some enlarging.  I do this and maintain its curved shaped lip.

The inability to hop-up the CVK's has dictated how I build the production class engine.  These carbs work OK with the 865cc kit and 813 grind cam I am running now.  The carbs seem to be close to their limits.  Another production engine option would be to put in a 911 cc bore kit with a nice hot cam.  I did not do this.  All indications are the carbs could not handle the bored motor without some mods and I could not find the parts to do them.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 06, 2012, 11:51:33 PM
I was looking up some info on the internet for this post.  I typed "Triumph Twin Power" into the search engine and browsed through the company website.  They offer the service of boring the standard carbs to 39 mm, flow testing them, etc.  This is just perfect for my production motor.  Yes.  Life is good.  Very very good.

There are other than standard carbs for the Bonneville.  Keihin makes 35 mm racing smooth bore round slide carbs and 39 mm (actually 36 mm) racing flat slides.  I was told the smooth bores are better for road racing and the flat slides are best for wide open use such as land speed or drag racing.  The flat slides are plenty big.  The dyno curve for the 100 horsepower Triumph Performance engine I posted a month ago uses them.

The flatslides I use were sold by Triumph Performance.  They have an OEM throttle position sensor on them.  This tells the ignition module what I am doing with my right hand.  The default if the module gets no signal is to retard the ignition.  Not good.  These are three things that can be done when installing racing carbs.  One is to buy carbs with the sensor on them, like I did.  Another approach is to wire in a resistor in place of the throttle position sensor.  This fools the ignition box into thinking the sensor is there.  Resistor readings are in the "Triumph Twins Adjusting the Throttle Position Sensor" topic on the "Triumph Twin Power" website.  The third method is to program the ignition module to ignore the sensor.  I have not done these last two methods.  Folks have told me about them.

The bike was hard to start with the flatslides.  I blamed the carbs because they did not have an richening circuit and I also blamed ethanol gas.  I was full of carp.  The bike got real easy to start when I fixed the voltage regulator so the battery was always charged.  Also, I puled off the float bowls to change the pilot jets during some road tuning.  Evidently, I lost the little linkage rod that actuates the accelerator pump.  It never worked.  This pump can be used to richen the mixture for cold weather starting.  All in all, the flatslides are a good set of mixers.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 12, 2012, 11:07:47 PM
The RICOR Intimidator fork valves are intended to allow the front suspension to travel and absorb road and track irregularities, and at the same time, they do not allow slow chassis movements such as pitching and diving.  The track was choppy last year and they helped a lot.  The oil I put in them was some Yamaha suspension fluid I had laying around.  I did not really know if it was the right weight.  The valves were calibrated by RICOR to use Amsoil 5 wt Shock Therapy.  I looked real hard to find this stuff.  Our local Honda shop carries it.  Photo 1 shows it.

The first step is to drain the oil as shown in Photo 2.  Unfortunately, not much comes out.  The trick is to tap the open fork tube end on a wooden block.  The RICOR valve comes out and a lot of oil with it.  See Photo 3.  Next, fill the fork with enough oil so the RICOR valve is submerged when it is installed.  This is about 420 cc on the Triumph.  See Photo 4.  Slowly stroke the work to remove bubbles.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 12, 2012, 11:23:56 PM
Now, push the RICOR valve down into the oil using the fork spring, as shown in Photo 5.  Make sure it is seated.  Remove the spring.  The valve should be submerged.

Most of us refill the fork tubes with the oil quantity listed in the shop manual.  Not so with the RICORs.  The oil level must be set with a sucker tool.  The one I made is shown in Photo 6.  It is a section of small diameter copper tube open on both ends.  Hobby shops sell the small diameter tubing.  A little hole is drilled in it like in the pix and a clear tube is installed on one end.  The little O-ring is set to the oil height.  I use 140 mm with the RICOR in the fork, tube fully compressed, and no spring.  The distance between the O-ring and the hole is 140 mm.  This is different than the level in the Triumph manual.

The sucker tube is lowered into the fork tube until the o-ring is flush with the tube top.  Excess oil is sucked out.  It is impossible to remove too much.  See Photo 6.  The last step is to install the spring and spacer and the fork tube cap.  It is easy to cross-thread the cap.  I clamp a socket in the vise, put the cap in it, and screw the fork tube onto the stationary cap by hand.  See pix 7.  This works well to prevent cross-threading.  All done. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 14, 2012, 11:53:05 PM
The SCTA rules say bias ply tires, only, with tubes.  I am not arguing with the rule, I just want to know some history about the when and why it exists.

It is for future planning.  The setup I run now has radial tires with tubes on spoked wheels.  I have two choices.  One is to switch to bias ply tires.  I really do not want to do this.  They are inferior in so many ways.  The other is to spend major money I do not have to buy a set of mag wheels for tubeless tires.  Hopefully the concern about tubes in radials can be addressed without either of these changes.  That is why I am asking.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 16, 2012, 12:28:03 AM
Standard operating procedure is to clean up and repaint parts as needed when they are being worked on.  My usual method is to spray red primer first, then grey primer, then a first finish coat, steel wool it, and then to apply a second finish coat.   Pretty basic - and it has worked for years.

These forks are aluminum with factory applied black powdercoat.  I sanded the original finish until it was smooth and sprayed on grey Rustoleum engine primer.  No problem.  Then I let the paint cure until the next evening and sprayed on a coat of black Rustoleum engine enamel.  No problem.  I let this cure for two days and steel wooled the finish until it was dull.  Then I sprayed on another coat of black.  Immediately it crazed the first coat.

This has been a problem for me since paints went to xylene based solvents.  Is there an intermediate coat I can apply to stop this crazing?  Is there a spray can paint without xylene solvent?   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on February 16, 2012, 07:34:24 AM
The one thing I noticed about engine enamel a few years ago, was that if you spilled gasoline on it, it would wash off!  I assumed that engine enamel, like high temperature manifold paint, needed to be heat cured.  I have found that regular Rustoleum gloss black rattle can paint gives me the highest gloss, but I  re-paint within 30 minutes to an hour without sanding between coats. Doesn't craze if you re-paint within the hour.

For aluminum, I usually bead blast and then use Duplicolor aluminum wheel paint, with or without primer, but it is still not very resistant to chipping. Is there a primer that really works with aluminum?

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on February 16, 2012, 01:23:52 PM
Advice from my painter friend...................Warm the sanded aluminum and use acetone to clean............then paint and re-coat before dry.........cure in warm area (3-feet below the tube heater in the shop) for a day or more..........if you want modern paint to hold up to fuel.........mix additional hardener.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 16, 2012, 10:36:51 PM
It is cold in my shop.  That might be the problem.  Two days was not long enough for it to cure between coats.  I have had the same problem of gasoline dissolving modern engine black.  Hopefully someone on this forum knows a source for decent rattle can paint.

Two pictures from the Salem Roadster Show.  This was the only lake racer there.  The plaque said it was a lakes modified roadster.

The only four cylinder engine in the entire show was in a Volkswagen.  No inline fours of any kind.  I should have asked for a refund on my admission.  All in all, they were beautiful cars and bikes.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Stan Back on February 17, 2012, 12:17:29 PM
Wobbly, that roadster runs in the fantasy Lakes Roadster class.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 19, 2012, 09:30:07 PM
This is a car in the Salem Roadster Show.  My father was a pre-war hot rodder.  War service calmed him down and he did not discuss it much.  Besides, I was a wild child and we did not have the most intimate relationship.  I am glad he did not kill me.  That is what I deserved.  This is what I recall from conversations with him, my mother's father, and some others who lived then.

Henry Ford was smart in many ways.  He, with a lot of help, figured out how to mass produce a lot of simple cars that folks could buy and maintain.  The cars themselves were sorta mediocre and had a lot of horse and buggy technology.  People bought them at a time when that was all they could afford and they had no status when times got better.  A lot of owners dumped them as soon as they could afford to buy something else.  This was perfect for my father and his buddies.  A whole lotta cars selling for cheap.  Ford's reluctance to change and update things helped too.  There was a lot of parts interchangeability.

There is a picture somewhere in the family showing my father in his Ford Model B.  It was by modern standards a ratmobile.  The top was sawed off and he was sitting in it with a big grin.  His family was conservative German and if this car was perceived to have any value he would not be allowed to do this.  My mother's father recalled this.  He was the terror of the neighborhood.  This photo is of a Model B standard.  A beautifully restored car.  Nothing like the one my father had but as close as I have seen.

My father was a Ford man until he died.  His daily driver was a Toyota for decades.  His weekend truck was always a Ford.  He admired their simplicity.  His saying was "Ford knows how to do something with one part that GM needs two to do."   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on February 19, 2012, 10:13:43 PM
It was a pleasure meeting you and your family, Bo.  I would have liked your father, I think.

Mike


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: ol38y on February 19, 2012, 10:26:33 PM
The SCTA rules say bias ply tires, only, with tubes.  I am not arguing with the rule, I just want to know some history about the when and why it exists.

It is for future planning.  The setup I run now has radial tires with tubes on spoked wheels.  I have two choices.  One is to switch to bias ply tires.  I really do not want to do this.  They are inferior in so many ways.  The other is to spend major money I do not have to buy a set of mag wheels for tubeless tires.  Hopefully the concern about tubes in radials can be addressed without either of these changes.  That is why I am asking.

Wobbly, I think you need to re-read the rule. There is no "only" in the rule. Also, it says "may be run with tubes". It does not say "radial tires may not run tubes"..
 IIRC, in the past they downgraded the speed rating 1 grade for tubes. I do not believe that is the case now if you use radial tubes in radial tires. Check with Tom Evans for your final answer...


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on February 20, 2012, 09:54:24 AM
The Model B was also in my Dad's life until a 1940 sedan appeared................then the B-wire wheels and hubs became part of a farm wagon.........many years later that wagon sold for surprisingly good $$.........much more than the slightly newer wagon with the Chevy hubs and plain rims.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 20, 2012, 01:02:53 PM
The NW reunion was a lot of fun.  This is the only time of the year that many of us running under the different sanctioning groups can meet and socialize.  It was nice to talk with all of you and learn about the fastest roadster.

Thanks for the info about the tubes and radials.  Plans are to run Speedweek in 2013 so Gretchen and I can see the cars.  That will be a first time for both of us.  I will run the tube and tire setup I have now.  It works wel.

The paint expert at the store where I bought the Rustoleum gave me some advice.  He said to do the finish coats quickly like Tom says.  He said if a finish coat dries it must cure before the next coat is applied.  Seventy two hours in a warm environment were his recommendations.  This place is heated in the morning and in the evenings, only.  We do not have anywhere that is continuously warm until summer.  It was time for plan B.

In the dinosaur times the headlight shell, fenders, tank, and sidecovers were spray painted by a guy in the neighborhood who had a gun and compressor.  Everything else was brush painted.  I could use any paint I wanted on our family paint shelf to do this.  Rattle can paint was a decadent luxury and my parents would not buy it.  Most of us were good brush painters.  This is what I did.

First, I sanded out the crazed places and reprimered them.  Then I hunted around and found a split can of black stove enamel.  One was left over from a fence painting job.  I buy a big can of paint and ask the store to split it into little cans.  This way, I have fresh paint from a little can.  I rarely use a big can up in one job.  The paint in the big can will go stale if it is opened and stored for a long time.  Next, I buy some enamel brushes.  I used sign painter brushes when I was a kid.  Now the artist store is the only place I can find them.  Note the tapered shape.  Good quality brushes do not shed hair.  This is important so I spend a little extra $ to get some good ones.

The paint should be just thin enough to lay down after it is applied and no brush marks remain.  I always work so the edge of the previously applied paint, that I am lapping over with the new coat, is as wet as possible.  It takes some practice and a good brush job can be as good as a spray application for a lot of smaller stuff, like frames, brackets, the fork tube lowers, etc.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 27, 2012, 12:55:19 AM
This Saturday it was windy, raining sideways, and snow mixed in.  During all of this I was putting the Triumph back together for the street.  It was wet cold and miserable.  There are times I question the smartness of having this hobby and this was one of them.  That evening I read some of the articles in the March 2012 issue of "The Horse - Backstreet Choppers."  One was about a fellow who has been working on his iron head Sportster for years.  It is a gasoline powered naturally aspirated chopper.  He gets good gas mileage and runs as fast as 11.75 seconds on the drag strip.  It is reliable and he tours across the country on it.  Another one was about the worlds fasted knucklehead (that is a type of Harley, not the rider).  The bike, raced by Pete Hill, won five national championships.  Pete made the cylinders out of a railroad car axle.  This was the strongest steel he could find.  All of this gave me some inspiration.  Those guys done good and the bikes they started with had tractor technology.  It was time for me to quit feeling sorry for myself and get to work.  Today I got the bike running.  It rained all day and the sun came out when it was time to fire it up.  The birds chirped, the Triumph started, and everything was OK.  Dyno day is at 10:00 on March 22nd.  Now I need to make a plan and get ready.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on February 27, 2012, 02:44:59 AM
I understand exactly how you feel
It seems I'm always working on other peoples bikes
When I get home, i don't feel much like working on or even riding my own bikes
On Wednesday at work, I had to take my riding gear in as there were a whole lot of finished jobs that needed riding
So it's Guzzi Le Mans IV, followed by a Le Mans III. Then a bunch of Indian Enfields. A Ural with a sidecar.
Next a Vincent Comet. And I'm still not feeling the love.
The final bike was Ducati 900GTS that has been following me from shop to shop
It was then that I remembered why I like the Bevel drive Ducati
So it's Sunday and It's absolutely tropical in Melbourne. I'm sitting on the couch, Air conditioner going, lacing up a wheel for my 750GT
on the coffee table.
It's all good
There is about three weeks to go until I'm standing on a salt lake
The bellytank will not be there, but I will.
G
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/grumm441/Lounging.jpg)


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 27, 2012, 10:42:18 PM
Truing wheels and drinking pints of beer at the same time?  Interesting.  Those Ducati GT's are nice bikes.  Rumors here are that half of the world's Ducati spare parts are hoarded on some farm in the AUS outback.

My draft dyno plan is shown.  One task is to stick some tubes on a pair of headers, run the engine at full throttle at the RPM where I want to optimize power, look for the reversion ring, cut the tubes there, and retest to find the maximum power.  The reversion ring is a ring of blue discoloration on the outside of the pipe.  The tubes will be made from unplated thin wall tubing so they discolor easier.

I have never done this and the procedure in the previous paragraph I made up after a very brief conversation last year with a pipe maker.  I might be full of carp.  Will the ring be visible on the outside of the pipe?

The goal is to compare the horsepower produced by the two different headers and to get some tuned lengths for future use.  Any experts, please give me some advice.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: DND on February 28, 2012, 12:42:43 AM
Hi Wobbley

I have not heard the term Reversion Ring, can you explain it a bit more.

Thanks
Don


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 28, 2012, 12:52:38 AM
There is a place in the pipe where the acoustics cause an elevated temperature and this blues the pipe.  Waves banging into each other, I think.  I do not really know.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jon on February 28, 2012, 05:23:43 AM
No love for the MkIII Grum :(
I have one for my ride bike now, I don't ride my S2 much since I tidied it up.
I know most Duc riders say S2s are a crap bevel but I wasn't going to make it into another SS fake.

Mate has conned me into riding to Lake Gairdner this year, will be riding the MkIII


jon


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Interested Observer on February 29, 2012, 10:16:17 PM
Wobbly,
In my humble opinion, using a method (“reversion rings”) that one does not understand and for which there is no plausible explanation as to why it should work, and one which no one else has even heard of, to tune your exhaust sounds like an exercise of complete futility.  You would probably be much better off and actually learn something about the exhaust performance by ginning up some variable length sections to put into the system (or several sections of different lengths) and making dyno pulls with them.

The way you have outlined it, cutting the pipe at the “ring” and assuming that is some sort of maximum power point only gives you one data point.  Who’s to say longer or shorter wouldn’t be better?


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: salt27 on March 01, 2012, 12:58:45 AM
I remember reading a article on tuning a drag car where they used collector extensions and cut them at the discoloration.
They claimed a positive gain.
I have not tried it and don't know if it works but I have heard of it.

   Don


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 01, 2012, 09:46:26 PM
This is my thinking on the idea.  The optimal tuned length depends a lot on the cam timing, piston position during the cam events, and the speed of sound in the exhaust.  The speed of sound is directly influenced by the exhaust gas temperature.    The engine geometry will be the same on the dyno in Beaverton or on the salt at B'ville.  The exhaust temperature might be different and it likely will be.

My plan is to learn what to look for on the dyno with a pair of straight pipes attached to the headers.  I will look for the discoloration.  At the salt I will attach an identical set of pipes to the headers and make a run.  Then I will compare the two.  This will tell me the tuned length adjustment I need make when I develop pipes in Oregon for use in Utah.

The same idea will be used when I run the various cams.  Hopefully the marks will tell me the exhaust length adjustments I need for different combinations.   

I will tune a set of pipes with this method, too.  They will be the special "witch doctor" setup.  Simply put on these pipes, drop a couple of small bones into the fuel tank, and I will be ready to go.         


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 04, 2012, 01:28:42 PM
Last Friday I had a long conversation with the pipe expert.  He was very nice to find the time to give me help.  What he said is in quotes.  This is not exact, it is what I remember.

"Big header diameters do not always work best.  A lot of people at Bonneville rum too big a diameter pipes.  The 1.5-inch diameter ones you have should be OK with the 865cc motor."  My plan is to order a set of unchromed headers from BUB.  I measured them last summer when I visited there.  They are close enough.  I will use those.

"Megaphones with a 12'' to 18'' long 1.5" taper cones and small reverse cones should work good for that bike.  Figure on cutting the headers and putting on the meggas somewhere around 26 inches from the exhaust valves."  One of my friends got a new TIG welder and he wants to make something.  These megga cones will be a good project.  Bradley in his books "The Racing Motorcycle" show how to lay out and cut the sheets to make cones.  This will be done.

"It is a good idea to make the meggas so they slide back and forth on the headers.  Move them in 1-inch increments and record horsepower.  There should be a curve where the horsepower peaks.  My guess is the 26 inches.  Sometimes the curve drops and rises again as the headers get longer."  Will do.

"Make the bends in the headers as large a radius and as few as possible.  Bends in the headers alter the tuned lengths."  Will do.  This makes using the Arrow mufflers a problem and I will not use them.  One is fairly straight and the other bends like a snake.

"Look at the pipes.  The soot colors on the inside will turn from light to dark.  Cut the headers at this point.  Sometimes the pipes are colored on the outsides where this happens.  Jetting the bike rich makes the color changes easier to see.  My guess is 26 inches."  The standard headers are in the photo.  Sure enough, like he says, they are discolored at right near 26 inches at the cross-over tube.  Unfortunately, I cannot attach meggas there.  No room under the bike.  These are my choices, as best as I can figure.

1)  Make a set of headers that merge into a collector at the correct location around 26 inches.  I had a setup like this on one of my old bikes.  It took a lot of fab and dyno work to get it right and it was easy to get it wrong.

2)  Make headers that wrap around the sides of the engine where the meggas can be placed at the right length.  I did this once.  They were BSA Hornet pipes on my old Spitfire.  Unfortunately, exhaust systems are hot and I am trying to keep the intake air and fuel as cool as possible.

3)  Tune to a longer bounce.  This is what I will do.  My plan is to start with the headers as short as possible and lengthen them an inch at a time.  The megga ends cannot project past the back of the rear tire.  This gives me a lot of distance to work with.

Right now I am on a fixed income.  My fear is the rising gas prices will trigger inflation, in which case I am screwed.  All of this pipe work, if it happens, will be next year.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 05, 2012, 10:55:25 PM
A few weeks ago I took the fairing up to Kent Plastics in Portland.  They looked at the windshield I wanted to make.  It has too much double curvature to produce by draping a piece of plastic over a form, heating it, and letting it settle down onto the form.  The shield needs to be vacuum formed.  They gave me some guidelines and my job is to make the buck.

In the distant past I made some molds for sand casting.  They were maple.  I had some memories of making fiberglass molds from knotty pine.  This was difficult.  The wood sanded easily in the soft parts between the knots and it would not sand well where the knots were.  The mold was lumpy.  There were high sports at all of the knots and lower spots between them.  My father recommended cabinet plywood with lots of plies.  The ten ply wood like in the photo is what he said I should use.  Unfortunately I forgot what he said when I was in the lumber store.  I bought poplar boards.  They do not have knots and they will sand down evenly with no high and low spots.  The wood is soft and I need to be very careful with it.  It is easy to dent, unlike a plywood buck.

The buck is being made.  One by one I cut a poplar board to shape and add it to the buck.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on March 06, 2012, 12:55:35 AM
A few weeks ago I took the fairing up to Kent Plastics in Portland. 

Geoff's a good guy, isn't he?  Did you see any of my stuff being done?   :mrgreen:  (Anxiously awaiting a phone call to pick it up.)

Mike


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jon on March 06, 2012, 04:34:56 PM
Watchin this with interest, cant find anyone in Aus to make me a screen yet.

Are you vacuum forming it Wobbly or making the buck and taking it to Kent Plastics?


thanks
jon


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on March 06, 2012, 05:15:27 PM
There are several good sites on the internet about making windscreens  without using a mold.  They use plywood with a hole the size of the windscreen base, and involve blowing low pressure air into the plastic when it gets up to temperature. You need a large, homemade, oven with elements in the bottom and temperature control.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on March 06, 2012, 06:30:55 PM
Rod&Custom article on Darryl Starbird blowing a big bubble: http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/1101rc_star_kustom_shop_bubbletop_fabrication/index.html (http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/1101rc_star_kustom_shop_bubbletop_fabrication/index.html)

 :cheers:
Mike


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 07, 2012, 12:55:54 AM
The bubble method will be what I do if the molding procedure does not work or is too expensive.  Right now the mold is a good thing.  Making it is forcing me to figure out exactly what I want and it gives me something use as a reference for the sheet metal work.   

The plastic sheet is rectangular.  The long dimension is plenty and I am not worried about it.  The short dimension is 24 inches wide and it is the critical one.  The the mold cannot be wider than 20 inches so everything will fit into the oven.  The flanges are 1.5 inches each.  They will be cut off after the windshield is vacuum molded.  See the sketch.

People I talk to say there are lots of different ways to do this and they need to look at the mold before they can give intelligent answers.  That is logical. 

The shield might be vacuum molded or it might not.  There are two local plastic companies in this little town and one fellow says he can lay felt over the mold and form the plastic over that using heat and his hands.  I might let him do it first and stand by to watch if he lets me.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 08, 2012, 01:45:37 AM
Any suggestions on the plastic?  My idea is to say "I need shatterproof plastic like the racers use."  That is not a very sophisticated request.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 09, 2012, 01:21:51 AM
Some internet research tells me that polycarbonate is best and hard coated poly resists scratches better.  Lexan is a brand of polycarbonate.  Next best would be top grade acrylic. Lucite and Plexiglas are acrylics.  Regular basic acrylic would be the bottom of the line choice.  I will try to get the shield made from hard coated polycarbonate.

My son sent me this picture from Afganistan where he is on patrol.  It looks like Nevada.  He will be back later this month. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on March 09, 2012, 05:56:35 AM
Bo, research polycarbonate, i.e. "Lexan" or "Margard", carefully before you start to heat and form it. It must be baked at controlled times and temperatures to drive out moisture or it bubbles internally and that's it for visibility. I'm not sure how the anti-scratch is applied but I would think it's a post forming process that would be ruined in the forming process.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on March 10, 2012, 12:06:09 AM
Let us know when he gets home.

Sometimes the last day is a killer.

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 10, 2012, 01:17:57 AM
Hi Freud.  Thanks for the advice.  It is passed on to him. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 11, 2012, 01:10:57 AM
The ignition module came in the mail.  It was reprogrammed in England to Triumph Performance specs.  It has the Option 3 settings.  This is the rev limiter raised to 8,400 rpm and a remapped spark advance curve.  The settings are made for an 865cc with the #813 cams like I have.

This morning I got up early and glued the last pieces on the windshield mold, removed the mold from the fairing, and sanded it down with a belt sander.  This roughed out the shape.  Next, I sanded it with a palm sander.  Finally, I started the finishing sanding by hand with a sanding block.  It goes up to Kent Plastics on Tuesday afternoon.  It looks like a wooden turtle.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 12, 2012, 07:47:28 PM
Real early this morning I brought the mold to a local plastics company.  Initially we talked about polycarbonate windshields.  This is my first choice.  His procedure is to put felt over the mold, heat the plastic, and to stretch it over the mold.   He said polycarbonate is hard to work with.  It has a memory and it tends to spring back rather than to conform to the mold.  He said initial preparation is essential.  The plastic must be heated to get rid of gasses in it.  He said these problems were worst with thicker plastic.  Polycarbonate is a material best suited for shops who use it on a frequent basis and have the curing facilities and experience to handle it, he said.  He said it would take two or the three tries for him to get it to work.

We discussed acrylic.  The regular acrylic is used for windshields, he said.  It shatters.  He said the tougher acrylic grades are sort of between polycarbonate and regular acrylic in workability. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 12, 2012, 08:13:35 PM
This is part two.  Rosie came home with dinner and I had postus interruptus.

The conversation ended with a homework assignment for me.  It is to figure out which acrylics are suitable for racing use.  Some quick research and Tom's post says aircraft grade cell-cast acrylic might be an alternative to polycarbonate.  Hopefully the sanctioning bodies will agree.  The Polycast UV-SC is claimed to be suitable for thermal shaping.  www.polycastacrylic.com.  Tomorrow I will bring the mold to Kent Plastics and talk to them. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 13, 2012, 11:00:53 PM
Today I had some business in Portland in the morning.  In the afternoon I visited the two plastic shops I am working with to do this.  I had the mold with me.  One shop does vacuum molding.  They would start with a 3/16 inch sheet and pull it down over the mold.  It would be about 1/8 inch thick in places where it was stretched the farthest.  The minimum thickness I want is 1/8 inch so this would be OK.  The plastic would be very soft when the molding is done.  It would pick up all of the grain texture from the wood.  I would need to sand all of this out of the inside face of the windshield.  It would be a big job.  Normally they do vacuum forming over polished metal molds and this is not a problem.  My conclusion:  vacuum forming is not practical for a wood mold.

Next I visited the shop that would slowly heat the plastic, drape the plastic over the felt covered form, and pull it into shape by hand.  They would start with 1/8inch thick plastic and they did not expect it to get much thinner.  Their oven was just big enough to hold the plastic.  They did not think they could heat the plastic evenly and some spots would be cool and not workable.  They recommended a shop in Hillsboro with a bigger oven.  They also mentioned that mold defects would show up on the windshield after the molding and fewer would be there than with the vacuum process.

Both shops would use generic polycarbonate or acrylic.  Hard coated windshield polycarbonate or aircraft grade cell-cast acrylic is what I want.  I would need to supply these materials myself.  A sheet of plastic is typically 4 x 8 feet and this costs a lot of $.

My plan is to smooth out the mold a bit more and bring it up to the big plastic shop in Hillsboro on the afternoon of the 22nd.  The dyno work will be done that morning in the nearby town of Beaverton.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on March 13, 2012, 11:21:16 PM
Check Home Depot. Up here they have smaller sheets. I think they buy 4 x 8 sheets and cut them up.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 14, 2012, 08:34:24 PM
The local plastic shop has been helping me quite a bit with advice.  I will let them try it.  I sort of owe it to them.

The local shop looked at pricing for cell-cast acrylic sheets.  It is scarce and expensive.  Their supplier recommended PETG.  It is easy to thermoform and it does not have the moisture absorbing problems of polycarbonate.  Some internet research shows that it is very tough.  Type "Quinn PETG" into a browser if you are curious.  Quinn uses it for motorcycle windshields and they produce it with UV resistant additives.

The wood mold is getting the final sanding.  I asked for a price quote from a pattern maker supply for some "Duratec Vinyl-Ester Surfacing Primer."  It is especially made for sealing wood molds that will have high temperature use.

Right now I am not sure what I will do.  I am learning a lot and seem to be headed in the right direction.  Does anyone have experience with PETG windshields?   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on March 14, 2012, 09:37:13 PM
Bo,
Cell cast acrylic, or PMMA (polymethyl methacrylate), is a shatter resistant plastic.  According to Wikipedia, it has been used for such things as the windows of submersible submarines, police riot shields, transparent shields at hockey rinks, lens for automobile headlights, the transparent dome of the B-17 flying fortress, and the roof of the Astrodome.  It is used for aircraft windows.  In fact, Lexan is not accepted for aircraft windows because in case of a necessary rescue, it cannot be broken.  Although I don't think this is a big issue for open or partially streamlined motorcycles, I'm not sure I would even want lexan for the windshield of a streamliner.  If they couldn't get the door open, they wouldn't be able to rescue the driver!  There should be no question of its acceptance as a shatter resistant plastic.  I might add that it would difficult to police the issue in any case, as I'm not sure there is any way to tell the difference with a non-destructive test.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 15, 2012, 12:31:49 AM
The PETG is used for bus shelter windows.  The yobbos cannot break them.  It is also used for windows in insane asylums.  That last use sorta qualifies it for being on my bike.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 15, 2012, 08:55:13 PM
A call was made to the local plastics shop.  They are enthusiastic about using the PETG and I agreed to let them do it.  It has these advantages.  It can be draped formed and this process makes a smoother finish on the inside of the windshield than vacuum forming.  It is almost impossible for me to make a wooden mold smooth enough to give a finish that does not need to be sanded and polished if it is vacuum formed.  The PETG has little memory, unlike polycarbonate.  It will not tend to spring back to its flatter original form when it is being molded.  There is much less problems with internal bubbles due to inadequate preheating.  Preheating is not needed.  Another advantage is cost.  The cell-cast acrylic in aircraft grade is expensive, and polycarbonate and PETG are relatively cheap.  This is a material they do not normally use and I need to buy an entire sheet.

The PETG is shatterproof and it will meet AMA and FIM requirements.  The SCTA and DLRA mention polycarbonate in their rules.  I would need special permission from the them to use the shield.

It is hard to find the low spots when the finishing sanding is done.  The mold is painted with engine primer and then it is sanded.  This shows me where the low spots are.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 18, 2012, 10:12:42 PM
Tapping a big hole can be tricky.  It is difficult to center the tap so it goes in straight and square.  My method is to use the drill press to keep everything lined up.  First, I check the table to make sure it is perpendicular to the drill press spindle axis.  Then I bolt the part to the table.  Now a washer is put in the hole.  The hole in the washer is in the center of the hole to be tapped.  Next, I put a drill in the chuck upside down.  I lower the shank down and move the part around until the shank is centered in the washer hole.  Then the table is clamped tight.  Exhaust Mods 2 shows this.

This tap has a dimple in the center of the top.  I use a roller from a Matchless rod bearing to center the tap.  A Harly or BSA roller will not do.  It needs to be a Matchless one.  Or AJS.  Little taps do not have a dimple and I use a sleeve over the top of them.  Exhaust Mods 3 shows a roller and a sleeve.  Exhaust Mods 4 shows the roller in place.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 18, 2012, 10:55:24 PM
Now everything is lined up and I start to turn the tap.  One hand is on the adjustable wrench and the other is on the drill press spindle handle.  I am moving the spindle down while I rotate the tap.  Exhaust Mods 5 shows this.  I watch the upper thread in the part real close and I stop turning when this thread is just at full depth.  A common mistake is to keep going and to force a taper tap to cut deeper.  This is hard on the tap and it can break.

Tap drill sizes for pipe taps are hard to find.  I used the internet to find them and they were on www.newmantools.com/tapdrill.htm.  The tap I am using has a 1-5/32 inch tap drill size for normal embedment of 1/3 to 1/2.  In other words, the pipe end will screw in 1/3 to 1/2 of its threaded length.  I want 100 percent embedment so I use a 1-3/16 drill as a first attempt.  The tap is turned until I cut the upper thread in the part to full depth and I remove the tap.  Then I screw in the pipe end.  It goes in 1/2 of the way.  The pipe is unscrewed and I enlarge the hole with a drill one size bigger.  Then I tap till the upper thread is cut to depth and I try again.  It took another try and the threads finally got big enough and the pipe end went in to full depth.  Exhaust Mods 6 shows this.

The point I am trying to show is, if you want deeper embedment than the typical 1/3 of the male threads, use larger tap drills to make wider female threads.  Do not use a standard tap drill and all sorts of brute force to do the job. 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 20, 2012, 12:34:42 AM
The Plan A is to try drape molding with PETG at a local shop.  Plan B, if this does not work, is to have the windshield vacuum formed from polycarbonate in Portland.  There is a limit on how smooth I can make a bare wood mold.  Some special high temperature sealer for molds is on order.  It will take a few weeks to get it.  This will allow me to make a very smooth surface which is helpful for drape molding and essential for vacuum molding.  I do not want to use anything besides a high temp sealer.  A coating that melts and contaminates the plastic will ruin everything.

The spray paint method in a prior post showed how I got rid of the low spots.  It does not tell me where the flat spots and bumps are.  To do this, I roll a straight edge over the mold and this shows me where they are.  I circle the high spots and sand them down.  The lines on the mold show where this has been done.

My middle boy is out of combat and preparing to come home.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 20, 2012, 11:56:27 PM
Thursday is dyno day.  The bike is prepared and the dyno plan is ready.  These are a few things I do.

1)  The jets are original equipment Keihin jets I have checked with a needle to make sure they are correct.  The use of shop jets can be problematic.  Their quality is not known.

2)  The mechanic always wants to know what I have changed.  He also wants to know what is the same.

3)  The correction factor I use is always SAE.  The factor influences the calculated results and it needs to be consistent from year to year.  This makes it easier to compare results from different sessions to each other.

4)  The old runs are on file and it is nice to tell him the best run from the previous year.

5)  "Do not assume, test" is what the exhaust pipe expert told me.  I have three exhaust systems, Arrow pipes with and without baffles and standard pipes with British Custom mufflers.  All will be tested.

While writing this I noticed a mistake or two in my dyno plan.  They will be fixed and It will be posted.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 21, 2012, 12:34:18 AM
Champ or chump tuner?  Engine wizard or motor lizard?  Thursday afternoon I will know.  Maybe you will too.  Depends on the results.  Dyno plan is attached. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on March 21, 2012, 01:49:14 PM
Wobbly...........check your plan for running without baffles before you actually remove them............I have not dynoed by instrument, the great white salt-flats seem to show consistent results.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on March 21, 2012, 07:38:59 PM
Hey WW
Why don't you give it a run with the three yellow/white wires from the charging system disconnected and see if it makes any difference
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 21, 2012, 08:31:52 PM
Old Scrambler, the baffles are an experimental setup I made for the street.  They probably will cost me power and I just want to see how much the loss is.

Grumm, is it a horsepower difference I should be looking for?

I am not sure this dyno day will happen.  This is what was out there a half hour ago when I put the bike on the trailer.  It is an hour's drive to the shop early in the morning.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 22, 2012, 11:45:12 PM
It was a pretty drive to Portland.  There was 4 to 6 inches of r fresh snow.  None of us are real experts here.  What is happening during these dyno pulls?  2012 Dyno Session 3 shows a red curve for pull 70.  This was early in the session.  Note the smoother shape near the horsepower peak.  The blue curve is for pull 86.  It was later.  See the dip near the peak.

2012 Dyno Session 4 shows some weirdness on pulls 81 and 102.  This was happening on intermittent pulls.  Two more curves will be shown in the next post.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 22, 2012, 11:50:09 PM
Two really funky pulls, # 91 and # 95 on 2102 Dyno Session 5.  Note the strange mixture curves.  Several pulls are plotted together on 2012 Dyno Session 6.  Note how they follow a common pattern.

We thought we hear d the clutch slip on a few of these strange pulls.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: MattGuzzetta on March 23, 2012, 01:04:38 AM
We used to have our road racing bubbles made by a company in L.A. that made optically clear bubbles by heating the sheet in a "hanging sheet" oven that heated the material evenly and they they place the sheet over a "ring" mold which was an oval hole in the top of a large box that they would pull a vacuum in (not a high vacuum, just enough to pull the sheet down)and the material was "free  formed" evenly.  They are out of business, but the method is a great way to get optically clear bubbles without touching a mold.  Here is a link (a loooong link) to a factory manual of forming acrylic that may give you a better knowledge of what is going on.
  https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:v4swlRMPdLoJ:www.atoglas.com/literature/pdf/135.pdf+hanging+sheet+oven&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgBpJ6xKMPGbQPxPGbJ5NllQm1d30poyiFXFGftcCwRleJ2r_21ujve-pyZsLbAUss0UL5aYJC1XC913A2gwDLJRvyLwrnFLeFIMIE8x4dXFtjcfLLXKiYamWq9HtFzkXqHQWKE&sig=AHIEtbQjxt7rvgSIUl-eC9DEsStoCSFLcA

Of course it is better to make the bubble, then design the fairing to fit, but the manual is worth looking through.  I have made windshields by both draping and vac forming and it was a big job sanding and polishing the vac formed parts to be able to see through them.....not very well, but they were on a sports racing car, so you mostly looked over the windscreen. Hope this helps a bit!   :-D

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/bubbamatt/star.jpg)
The windshield on this econo bike was a free blown unit and the headlamp cover was a plaster mold covered with felt and sanded after molding.

Matt Guzzetta



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jon on March 23, 2012, 01:07:41 AM
If the clutch was slipping there should be a temporay mismatch between wheel and engine rpms, did you get full data point files or just graphs?

The midrange dips, were they with standard ignition?
I've seen a few factory ignition curves that have advance dips that coincide with noise/emission testing rpm ranges.

Jon


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 24, 2012, 11:28:10 AM
Matt, the local plastic shop wants to try to drape mold the PETG over the form and I told them I would do it.  That will be Plan A.  Plan B will be to have it made with this hanging bubble method if the cost is reasonable.  Thanks for posting this.

Jon, your advice is absolutely correct.  The shop compared wheel to engine rpm on a problem pull.  The data showed that the clutch was slipping when the engine put out more than 70 horsepower.  Aftermarket plates and springs were recommended to me when I built the motor.  I was cheap and lazy.  I did not put in the plates and I replaced half of the standard springs with stiff ones.  The clutch will be beefed up in a few months when it gets warmer in the shop.

In a recent post I mentioned how I needle check my jets and use original equipment jets, only.  I gave the mechanic the jet box with the words "All of these jets are Keihin and they have been checked for size.  Use them."

There were a pair of jets marked "AB142" in that box.  I somehow did not find them and toss them out.  The holes in them are a size or two bigger than the orifices in Keihin #142's.  The mechanic put them in, they made the bike run overly rich, and they completely confused the jetting sequence.  It took a bunch of pulls and time to figure out the problem.  Those AB142's were some expensive jets when I paid the bill.  Dyno work is like racing.  A person has to check and double check to make sure everything is OK before the big day.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on March 24, 2012, 12:25:24 PM
Don't rely on jet numbers or needle size. The only way to know is to flow it.

Same sized holes don't always flow the same amount.

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 25, 2012, 12:34:37 AM
How does a person flow test a jet?

The local experts on jetting these flat slide carbs say "Jet for best power.  Do not jet for what you think is the best mixture."  The procedure is to increase jet sizes incrementally until the power drops.  Last year #140 jets were the best and power dropped when bigger ones were installed.  This year #145 jets are best.  I figure I have a few more horsepower based on this increase in jet size.  The mixture that produces maximum power is leaner than normal.  That is the nature of this engine and it has always been like this.

The power curve drawn on the graph for 2012 is an average of five pulls.  The bike makes four more horsepower.  That is reasonable considering it went up two sizes on the main jets.  The bike runs a lot better on the street in low to mid range rpm.  There was a lag in the power curve at just under 4,000 rpm.  The lag is much less now.

Changes since last year are the modified intake bells, larger air cleaners, polished and matched intake manifolds, and the ignition module.  The goofy jets and the clutch problems used up a lot of time and we did not get good runs in to test the intake mods and module separately.



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 25, 2012, 12:08:37 PM
A lean condition occurs when the throttle is opened suddenly on a slide carb.  The engine stumbles and the bike does not accelerate.  One cure for this is to make the low speed mixture a bit rich so it is not overly lean when the throttle is opened.  This setup makes a polluting mixture and the extra fuel is detrimental to engine life.  Another cure is to open the throttle slower so the mixture does not go lean.  This works well.  The low speed mix can be set at a leaner ratio and the engine runs cleaner and lasts longer.  More solutions are constant vacuum carbs or fuel injection.  An accelerator pump on a slide carb is an option, too.  It squirts in a little extra fuel when the throttle is opened quickly.

These Keihin flatslides have an accelerator pump.  This engine does not like the rich mixture the pump provides and it runs best if the pump is disconnected.  I keep the pump operational for starting on very cold mornings only.  Twisting the throttle once or twice squirts in some extra fuel and this makes starting easier.  This is how I set up the pump.

The linkage is shown in the photo.  A little piece of bent brass welding rod is the linkage.  The rod is made long to start and I gradually grind it shorter until I get the length I want.  A shorter rod delays when the pump activates.  The fuzzy photo shows this.  The third photo is taken outside where it is safe to do this.  The fuel tank is on a picnic table above the photo.  The fuel line is connected to the carb and I turn the throttle by hand.  The rod length is adjusted until the pump goes on when the throttle is 1/4 to 1/3 open.  Fuel squirts from the little brass nozzles in the carb venturis when the pump is working.

There are various opinions about having the accelerator pump hooked up during dyno testing.  Some operators say they know how to ignore the pump's influence on mixture.  Others want it disconnected.  My assumption is I do not know, and if the pump richens the mixture during the dyno work, the selected jets will be too lean for sustained steady state running.  This could make an engine failure.  Disconnecting the pump during dyno testing seems to be the safer option and I do this. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on March 25, 2012, 01:20:36 PM
Bo,
Four more horsepower is a significant increase, especially considering the minimal changes you have made.  Unfortunately, you and I and most people end up making several changes between runs (dyno or salt flats), so we don't really know which change made the biggest, or any difference.  Such is life.

I, too, have a pumper carb, and was plagued with bogging between gear changes.  I blamed it on overly large intake passages (velocity too slow in ports?), but I don't really know.  I went from 36mm ports to 40mm, so maybe too much change at once. Such is life!

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jon on March 25, 2012, 02:37:17 PM
Bo; is the accelerator action pump spring loaded ?
Can you change the duration of the hit by putting different size jets in?

Bo & Tom; have you looked into quickshifters same as they run on circuit racing?
IMHO they're main benefit is not from the microseconds it saves from not having to pull in the clutch, I see 2 main other benefits.
Intake velocity and mixture, because you don't close and reopen the throttle velocity in the intake is maintained and your mixture isn't going all over the shop.
You engage the clutch once to get off the line then leave it alone which has to help it live longer.

My 2 cents anyway
jon


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 26, 2012, 12:10:06 AM
Jon, today I was monkeying around with the exhaust baffles and I cured the carburation problem.  Bikes are strange creatures.  It runs OK now.  Actually, it runs really good.  I will post what I did.

Tom, try adjusting the linkage to the squirters or their jets.  Maybe they are opening too much too soon or not enough and too late.         


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on March 26, 2012, 08:34:54 AM
Bo & Jon,
If only I had my own test track! (or dyno) Pretty tough to try to tune out the carburetor issues on a bumpy 1/4 mile driveway with 100 feet of elevation change, especially with 15* of steering, 72" wheelbase, and no front brake.

As for quick shifter, probably a good idea, if I could find a reasonable solution that would work on the BSA.

Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 26, 2012, 11:46:30 PM
Colorado has dynos in some cities that are near the same elevation as the salt flats.  Some sessions there might be helpful.  Seven feet long is shorter than some touring bikes I see now.

A big lesson was learned in 2007.  It was record inspection time and I needed to remove the cylinder head for the bore and stroke measurements.  It was getting late and I could not get it off.  It was hung up on the exhaust pipes.  I needed to remove the pipes.  This required pulling off the fairing.  To do that I needed to remove the forks.  The wheel and fender had to come off before I could do that.  The problem was solved by not removing anything and using a big hammer and prybar to bend things out of the way to extract the head.  The exhaust cross-over pipe was the problem.  There was not enough room to spread the pipes apart and to disconnect them so they could be moved out of the way.  I needed a set of pipes with no cross-over tube.

A few months later I was fondling a set of Arrow pipes at the Triumph dealer.  I could not afford them.  I liked to feel light weight and the smooth and sleek titanium.  The owner swooped in and made me an excellent offer.  Some bonehead customers dented these pipes and they could not sell them as new.  The dents matched all of the other dents on my bike.  Soon they were mine.

These pipes are made to work with the standard Triumph cams and they do this well.  I have racing cams and they would work great with the baffles out and the bike would barely run with them in.  I replaced the constant vacuum carbs with flatslides and this helped.  Then I cut the baffles apart.  The first picture shows the inside of the pipe.  A fixed baffle was in there.  I cut them it out and now there is a 1.5 inch diameter unobstructed tube down the middle of each muffler - like a straight through glasspak muffler for a car.  The removable baffles were cut in two.  One is in the second picture.  The little baffles work, barely.  There is bogging when I open the throttle suddenly, the engine runs a bit rough, and fuel mileage is in the low 40's.

The end of the tube in the little baffle projects into the exhaust flow.  This projecting end has the worst flow characteristics.  A hole with a tapered opening would flow much more gas with the same back pressure.  That was the first thing to fix - make the openings tapered in the new baffles.

A sound wave coming out of the pipe and passing through an open end reflects a wave back with the opposite polarity.  In other words, a pressure wave is reflected back as a vacuum wave.  A solid obstruction reflects back a wave with the same polarity.  A pressure wave is reflected back as a pressure wave.  The opening in the short baffle is small and it reflects a small wave of the opposite polarity.  The obstructed area is large and it reflects a stronger wave of the same polarity.  This same polarity wave discombobulates the carburetion and causes all sorts of problems.  That was the second thing to cure.  The baffle needs to be made so the tuned length reflecting the opposite polarity wave is where it was originally.  The baffle needs to have a different tuned length that reflects a wave of the same polarity.  Both the reflected vacuum and pressure waves need to arrive at the upstream end of the pipe at the a same part of the cam overlap cycle.  Picture 3 shows the new baffle from the side.  Note the different tuned lengths.  The opening that reflects the same polarity wave has a different tuned length than the opening that reflects the opposite polarity wave.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 27, 2012, 12:02:53 AM
This fourth picture shows the baffle from the upstream end.  Note the more efficient tapered opening.  The taper reflects the wave of the same polarity.  Its tuned length is shorter.  The fifth picture shows the baffle from the downstream end.  The opening that reflects the wave of the opposite polarity.  The internal diameter of the holes in both the long and short baffles are the same.  Do these new baffles work?

The bike runs much better on the street.  The dyno chart shows that both baffles cut down the power at the 3 to 4 thousand rpm range I use on the road.  The loss with the long baffles is less.  The long baffles work much better at mid range.  Both work about the same at top end and they are as good as the open pipes.  Strange.  A person would think that they would hurt power there.  Next year I will make baffles with different length tubes between the bells and the ends.  Then they will be compared on the dyno.

The pipe expert told me to start with a known good system, make incremental changes and test them, and do not assume anything.  He is correct.  Things in reality do not always work like we think they will.         


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 27, 2012, 10:25:56 PM
These are the horsepower and mixture curves for the baffles.  This explains why the accelerator pump makes the bike run worse.  This carb setup runs richer when the throttle is opened rather than leaner.  The pump was not connected when this dyno pull was done.

Baffles inside of pipes are not an optimal way to quiet a bike down and make power.  A collector system with a can muffler would give me the correct tuned lengths, good noise control, and minimal flow restriction.  The baffles are a "make do with what I have" solution until I can fabricate something better.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on March 27, 2012, 10:41:40 PM
Interesting curves, but strange.  Just think how much more you could learn with some carburetor variations, several different exhaust systems, re mapping the ignition, changing the jets, and all the possible permutations of the above, and about 2 weeks of dyno time. Or 20 years of changes!
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 29, 2012, 01:14:41 AM
The bike has 101 dyno runs on it.  It has paid its dues.

The primer was ordered from Freeman Manufacturing and Supply in Ohio.  www.freemansupply.com  It is Duratec VE Grey primer.  They recommend this for coating a mold over which hot plastic will be formed.  It look, smells, and acts like Kondar epoxy filler-primer I used previously for auto painting.

It comes in a gallon can.  I had it split into quarts at the local paint shop.  One quart is always not as full as the others.  He marked 1st on it.  I will use it first.  This keeps the paint good for longer than storing it in the gallon can.  I will use the quarts one at a time over the years.

This stuff is nasty and poisonous.  I mix it with a plastic disposable spoon in a disposable cup and paint it on with a throw away brush.  All is tossed in the outside trash can when I am done.  This is quick and I avoid cleanup.  Less time exposed to chemicals = less toxicity.

The instructions mention spraying this stuff.  A person needs to be spray-paint-superman to do it.  I never figured out how.  I use a brush.  The mold is a nice battleship grey color now.  Tomorrow I will sand it down.  The mold used to be on a board.  That was for vacuum forming.  The person doing the draping wants it elevated like it is now.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 31, 2012, 08:59:18 PM
Today it stopped raining for a few hours.  It was time for a trip to test hill.  The baffles I made several posts ago showed some merits for the idea.  I remade them in three lengths and all were tossed in the saddlebag.  The short baffles have female connectors on the ends.  The bike ran better than with the very short baffles I used the last few years.  The shorter extensions were screwed in and this made medium length baffles.  The bike ran better.  The longer extensions were tried and the bike ran best.  I will make some even longer extensions and try them.

This reversion was the last problem I needed to fix.  The street part of the 865cc/#813 cam motor is done.  It gets gas mileage in the 40's, runs clean at all rpm and throttle settings on el-cheapo gasoline, goes fast, and does not vibrate.  There is nothing left for me to do.  It runs perfect.  I could start on a ride to Maine tomorrow and be sure the motor would not break during the trip.  It is the best street engine I have built.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jon on March 31, 2012, 09:41:28 PM
Got to be happy with that Bo.

Do you have markers on your hill that you roll on from one to another for speed comparisons.

Used to be a decent hill about 30mile away from where I lived just after I got my license, when I built a motor I used to drive it steady there and cane it up the hill and take it easy down the other side, turn around and repeat a dozen or so times.

Not the "proper" way to run in motor but I never had trouble with rings not bedding in.


Congrats on the build
jon


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 01, 2012, 10:35:10 AM
Hi Jon.  The police around here are low on money and speeder tickets are a big revenue source.  They are aggressive.  Plus, the varmints confiscate vehicles during their drug busts and turn them into cop cars.  Almost any late model vehicle around here could be a police car.  It is an effective deterrent and this prevents and full throttle testing except for short bursts.  No longer can I blast up test hill.  The old days were the good ones in some respects.

Engine tuning is my weak point and I am happy to achieve this very modest success.  Work for next year is installing racing springs and keepers and building a racing exhaust system.  The 996cc engine will have hotter cams.  I was going to install them on the 865cc engine just to see what would happen.  Then I was going to install the hotter intake cam with the exhaust cam I am using now, and try it.  The mixed cam setup has worked for me in the past.

The board the mold is on is trimmed back like Kent Plastics wants so it will fit in the oven.  The mold was painted with primer and sanded smooth with 150 grit sandpaper.  Then I painted the mold with two coats of primer and one light coat of black engine enamel.  Now I am using 220 grit paper to sand the mold until none of the engine black shows.  The top of the mold is sanded this way and it is very smooth.  The sanded mold will go up to Kent Plastics next week.  A vacuum formed polycarbonate windshield is the goal.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on April 03, 2012, 01:01:16 PM
Answer to Post 737.

How do you flow test a jet?

Marlo Treit told me that he made an adaptor that would hold the jet, and changed the size of

the receptacle that measures the quantity of fuel that was flowed. He uses the same flow bench as he does

for any other fuel system. He flows every jet that is used in a fuel system. The number is

disregarded and the amount of fuel flowed is the important number. He may also change the pump

so there isn't too much fuel.

The treatment of the end of the orifice can make a difference in flow as well as the diameter of the orifice.

In some manufacturers jets there is a significant difference in jets with the same number.

He questioned the efficiency of doing Triumph jets if the needle needed to be in place. 

Do the needles have steps in them.

Talk to him when u see him. He will share his procedure with you.


FREUD



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Stan Back on April 03, 2012, 04:39:45 PM
We found an easy and inexpensive way -- we sent them to Gene Adams.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 04, 2012, 09:09:10 PM
Thanks for the info about the jets, Stan and Freud.  This is something I will consider doing next year.

The windshield mold went up to Kent Plastics this morning.  They are doing a lot of race windows and windshields lately.  The mold was sanded very smooth.  The surface was wood in some places and grey primer in others.  "The hot plastic might raise the grain" they said.  It would have been better if the entire mold surface was sanded primer.  Raised grain will make more work for me when I sand the molding defects out of the inside surface.

Plastic was discussed.  This is what I learned.  Polycatbonate (PC) and PETG ate relatively shatterproof.  Unfortunately, the plastics are softer and easily melted when they are polished by buffing wheels.  Both scratch easily.  This makes it hard to attain and maintain optical clarity.  Acrylic is a harder material and easier to polish and keep in a good optical condition.

This windshield is tilted towards me and I will be looking through it at an angle.  Optical clarity is important for safety and the finish should be easy to maintain.  I chose an impact resistant acrylic as my first choice and I mentioned aircraft quality plastic or similar.  Second choice would be PC or PETG.  Kent Plastics will talk this over with their suppliers and call me with their recommendations.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 09, 2012, 11:03:21 PM
The Bonnie went on a test loop last Saturday.  It was the monthly shopping trip to Portland.  Aerodynamics is pretty bad, brick like, with Gretchen as passenger, a windshield, saddlebags, me, and a wooden crate on the luggage rack.  The trip is fast freeway riding at 70+ mph with stop and go driving around the city.  It is hard to get good fuel economy.

The things I were testing was the longer baffles in the photo.  Previously, the bike ran bad at about 3,500 to 4,000 rpm.  This I attributed to "camminess."  The bike runs good in that rpm range now.  Gas consumption was 45 mpg.  This is good for gasahol and as good or better than the standard 790 cc engine did.

The way to do this modification is to set the carb jetting as best as possible with open pipes.  Then, put in the shortest baffles possible.  Try them, and then try ones 1.5 inches longer.  Try longer ones in 1.5 inch increments until one set works the best.  Use them.  Reset the jetting if needed.

Although I did not do comparison tests, theory says the bell shape is important.  The 1-inch wide constricted pipe has 44% of the flow area of the 1.5-inch open pipe.  This is one thing I thought would not work.  In practice the baffled mufflers make the bike run better. 

A lot of us run straight pipes of some type.  The glass pack mufflers I use are like straight pipes in many ways.  I sure recommend trying this modification.  It is something I wish I had figured out years ago. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 10, 2012, 10:34:15 PM
A fellow I worked with retired and he builds fly rods for a living.  His lathe is a bit large for the work he does with it.  He bought a smaller one and he is selling the bigger one.  This is a big purchase.  I talked to Rose to make sure it was OK.  She had somethings to say.  "Are you nuts?  Since when do you need round things so bad?  You got along without one for almost sixty years.  What makes you need one now?  Where are we going to put it?  We are out of money."  This sounds like spousal approval to me.  I drove out to Aumsville to look at it this evening.  Aumsville was hit by the tornado.  It looks OK now except most of the big shade trees are gone from the town center and there are a lot of vacant lots in a big strip through the middle of town.  lt is sad.  These little towns do not recover from something like that.

The lathe is a 1947 or 48 Logan sold by Monkey Wards.  All the normal accessories are there including the owner's manual.  Collets and adjustable reamers, too.  It will handle stuff up to 10 inches around and 24 inches long.  It is back geared and set up to cut American threads.  The fellow told me it would not be a restoration project.  There is no need for that.  Everything is in good condition and it works.

Some money has been squirreled away for cams and valve springs.  It exchanged hands and the lathe is mine.  The big project is getting it home.  I tried to pick up one end of the lathe to see how heavy it is.  It would not come up.  I asked the fellow if the lathe was bolted to the floor.  He said "No, that thing is heavy."  They built solid machines in those days.         


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on April 10, 2012, 11:39:05 PM
An engine crane can be your friend Bo. Sling it from under the bed in at least two places and get it around the gearbox or at least the chuck to stabilize it so it can't flip when it's in the air. Be careful not to exert much pressure on the horizontal shafts. Lathes are definitely top heavy if they don't have an integral base.

If it works as good as it looks you'll spend many hours of fun with it.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 15, 2012, 12:41:48 AM
Logging in to www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/reports/today.html  will show what our midwestern forum members are experiencing.  Crazy.  118 tornadoes in one day was what the count was the last time I checked.  One was about half a mile wide.  I sure hope everyone is OK.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 16, 2012, 12:11:57 AM
Rose and I drove out to get the lathe today.  We took it apart to make it small enough to be able to move it.  A tooth brush, some solvent, and lots of scrubbing were used to clean up the bed.  I was planning to repaint it.  This machine is totally original and this made me change my mind.  It is a good example of what one looked like when it came from the factory.  This has a lot of value in itself.  My plans are to clean it up and keep it as original as possible while I am its custodian.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on April 16, 2012, 05:35:33 PM
Easier to see.

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 17, 2012, 08:58:53 PM
Thanks, Freud.  That altered photo is much better.  That is the lathe before I bought it.  It was in a fishing rod making shop.  The fellow used it to spin the fishing poles so he could sand the correct contours onto the cork handles.

The speed vs mph chart for the last dyno session was provided by Cascade Moto Classics.  It clearly shows the clutch slipping when the engine produced maximum torque.  The clutch grabbed when the engine torque dropped at higher rpm.

The cure for this is some stronger clutch springs and replacing any worn plates.  Standard Triumph plates with "green" springs are OK for an 865 cc Triumph engine according to Triumph Performance.  I will need to put in Kevlar plates for the big motor, they say.  My plans are to replace the standard plates with Kevlar ones if any are worn.  This way, I will not need to replace anything when I build the 996 cc engine.

Kent Plastics called today.  The first windshield will be polycarbonate.  We will see how it works, if major sanding and polishing is needed, and how easy that is to do.  Plan B will be to make another one out of impact resistant acrylic.

The reasoning to go with the vacuum molded poly is the "lesser of the evils" principle.  I know all sanctioning bodies will accept polycarbonate without argument.  This is important based on my recent experience with something else on the Triumph.  It is very important to smoothly pass tech inspection.  There are very few people who make drop formed windshields.  The one example I know about did not fit as well as desired.  Fit is a problem I would have a very hard time coping with.  It is harder to reshape a metal fairing to fit a windshield than a fiberglass one.  Sanding and polishing are inherent difficulties associated with the vacuum forming process on wood molds.  They are simple problems and I can deal with them.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Kiwi Paul on April 17, 2012, 11:19:46 PM
BO--Reshaping Metal is my stock-in-trade. If you end up with a mismatch and need some adjustment, keep me in mind. I`d be up for adjusting something if needed..... :cheers:


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: desperate on April 19, 2012, 12:27:41 PM
Rose and I drove out to get the lathe today.  We took it apart to make it small enough to be able to move it.  A tooth brush, some solvent, and lots of scrubbing were used to clean up the bed.  I was planning to repaint it.  This machine is totally original and this made me change my mind.  It is a good example of what one looked like when it came from the factory.  This has a lot of value in itself.  My plans are to clean it up and keep it as original as possible while I am its custodian.
I love the story of your lathe, I had a similar experiance here in the UK, but I found mine on the back of a lorry ready to be weighed in as scrap. It was rusty & had no motor, but my eyes told me it was worth having, and definately better than not having one at all, so I bought it for "scrap metal" price, £60.
I stripped it down to small enough parts for three strong men to lift, & got it home in the back of my car. Like you, it was out with the toothbrush, wire brush & emery cloth. As I rubbed the rusty (only light surface rust) bed down, I found the maker's name...."Colchester".....possibly the best lathe manufacturers in the UK. There was no serious wear to be found, so I sploshed some blue Hammerite paint on it. It looked like new, but I had no motor until I put the word around. A couple of days later my mate dropped off an industrial potato peeling machine, also destined for scrap. It had the exact motor I needed.
A half-day's work later, using old pulleys & belts that were never thrown away because they might come in handy one day, I had a working lathe. No back-gears & no auto-feed, but for £60 who cares? It's fully tooled now with 3 & 4 jaw chucks & a faceplate & I use it virtually every day. Every time I switch it on, it's like working with an old mate!
The picture shows it on the back of the lorry the day I found it.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: desperate on April 19, 2012, 12:42:38 PM
Here it is, two years on & the best buy I've made for years. The work this old girl turns out is phenominal, I even re-machined my Indian flywheels on it.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 21, 2012, 11:36:58 AM
Desperate, you were fortunate to find the machine and the lathe was lucky that you found it.

Paul, thanks for the offer to reshape the fairing.  The advantage of the vacuum forming method is its ability to suck the plastic down tight onto the mold.  The fit will be correct if the mold is proper.  This mold was shaped while it was on the bike.  No problems with fit are anticipated.  Polishing might be an issue.  Polycarbonate can be difficult in that respect.

The next few posts will be on setting up the lathe.  This is not directly related to LSR.  It is useful, though.

Vague memories from my apprentice days tell me I must be careful to "avoid springing the bed" as they called it.  This lathe was taken apart for transport.  There were two reasons.  First, the lathe parts could be picked up and moved and the complete machine could not.  Second, the assembled machine must be placed on a level and flat surface.  I do not have one.  One photo shows the lathe where it will be in the cellar.  The second picture shows some coins under one of the stand feet.  The money is there to keep the lathe stand from rocking back and forth.

Let's assume the coins are not there and I assembled the lathe on this uneven surface.  The weight of everything would push the feet down until all four were on the floor.  This would twist the bed.  The ways upon which the carriage travels would not be parallel to each other or to the center of rotation.  It would be difficult to do accurate work.  Another more serious problem would be the consequences of setting the lathe down on a very uneven surface.  The bed could twist far enough to be permanently bent.  It would not be an accurate tool after that, and it would be unsuitable for metal work.  It would not be a total loss.  A woodworker could make good use of it.   

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 23, 2012, 09:44:51 PM
The floor is cracked where the lathe will sit.  The soils under this house have some clay in them.  They swell a little bit in the winter when they are damp and the water table is high.  The floor rises.  The soils shrink in the summer when they dry out.  The floor settles.  The cracks make the floor rising and falling uneven.  Some parts rise more than others.  This floor shifting has caused me all sorts of alignment problems with the woodworking machinery.

A reinforced concrete pad under the lathe will not shift and the lathe will stay in alignment.  The lathe is short and at just the right height for Gidget the Midget.  The pad will s raise it up and it will be easier for me to use.

The first step is to elevate the lathe and install bolts and nuts on all four feet.  The feet are greased so concrete will not stick to them.  The feet rest on the bolts and those rest on concrete brick chunks.  Altogether, the lathe is raised 3-1/2 inches.  The bolts and washers must be grease free.  The concrete should stick to them.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 24, 2012, 11:33:59 PM
The lathe is leveled in this step.  The highest corner of the bed is determined with a level and the other corners are raised to the same height.  I used quarters, dimes, and nickels as shims between the brick chunks and the bolt heads.  The picture shows the lathe bed during the leveling.  The boards attached to the chip pan position the lathe at the desired distance from the wall.  The lathe is leveled as best as it can with a carpenter's level in this step.  A more accurate machinist level will be used during the final leveling.

The form is built around the lathe feet.  Something like this should always be reinforced.  The mounting bolts attached to the lathe feet and all nuts and washers are stainless steel.  The reinforcing bars are mild steel.  Care is taken to make sure they do not touch each other.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 30, 2012, 09:55:15 PM
A fellows never knows what will turn up here during spring cleaning.

Not much has been posted about this build.  Rosie's shift schedule changed and we have a lot more days off together.  That one little hen keeps this mighty rooster awfully busy.  She is on vacation in New York and I am trying to get back on track.

Everything is preparation for running in AUS in 2015.  No surprises is the big goal.  That is halfway across the world and getting there is all I can do.  This year I will run as a 1000cc AMA APS-AG.  The record is held by a Triumph Bonneville and I cannot beat it.  APS-AG is an altered partial streamliner with an altered gasoline powered engine.  My bike is for all practical purposes a modified partial streamliner with a production engine.  The longer tail section and the flatslide carbs put me into the altered body and engine classes.  The American AMA and Australian DLRA rules for APS streamlining are similar.  The main difference is the tail.

The AMA says "Streamlining shall not extend beyond the rear edge of the rear tire more than 8 inches.  No streamlining behind the rear axle is permitted to be lower than the top rim of the rear wheel."  The DLRA says "If a streamlined seat/tail section is used, it cannot extend further to the rear than 10 inches beyond the rear edge of the rear tire, or 1/3 of the wheelbase, whichever is less.  No part of the seat/tail section may be closer than 4 inches from the ground, or over 40 inches from the ground with the rider seated."  The AMA and DLRA tails might make the bike handle differently and I want to get this sorted before I go to AUS.  I asked BUB if I could run a tail with deeper skirts to see if the handling will be OK, with the proviso that it disqualifies me from any record.  They have not replied yet.

The AMA and DLRA front sections are similar.  Right now I have an FIM record out on loan and someday it will be time to get it back.  The fairing has cutouts so my hands and arms are visible as per FIM rules.  They are blocked off as allowed by AMA and DLRA rules.  The photo shows how I did it.  It is fairly east to put them in or to take them out.

     

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 01, 2012, 10:03:33 PM
BUB replied.  A bike has to be completely legal with class specs to run in APS.  No longer skirts are allowed, even if no record runs are made.  Plans are to run as an APS bike at BUB this year and to enter speedweek in 2013 if I get the tire dilemma figured out.  The SCTA has the same streamlining rules as the DLRA.  A run or two at speedweek will give me the opportunity to try out the setup I will use in AUS.  Also, a visit to speedweek will give Gretchen and me a chance to see the cars.  It will be the first time for both of us.

The lathe was leveled with a carpenter's level when the pad was formed and poured.  The final leveling should be done with something more accurate.  A machinist level was ordered through Fastenal.  It is an American made Starrett.  The concrete has cured and the forms were knocked off.  The mix I used was bony and there were a lot of voids on the surface.  It was ugly.  There was some blue, pink, and tan grout left over from some tiling jobs.  This was mixed up to make a grey grout and I covered the pad.  The pad is portable and some handles are cast into each end.  The builder's paper under the pad kept it from attaching itself to the floor when it is poured.
 

       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 02, 2012, 09:13:53 PM
The machinist level is placed on the ways for the final leveling.  It is much more sensitive and accurate than the carpenter's level.  Shims are put under the feet as needed to level the lathe.  The shims I cut out of 0.005 inch thick brass sheet.  They can be purchased ready-made.  Ask for arbor shims.  The shim stock is a little piece I bought at the hobby shop and it cost me much less money to make my own.  The leveled lathe will cut much more accurately than it would if I had not done this.  A lathe that cuts a taper when making long shafts usually needs to be leveled.  This is the last lathe post.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jon on May 06, 2012, 04:27:11 PM
Looking good Bo, a lathe will make a lot of jobs so much easier.

Any updates on your windscreen?

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 07, 2012, 12:21:22 AM
The windshield was brought home on Friday.  Geoff at Kent Plastics did the job for a reasonable $85 USD covering labor and materials.  Kent Plastics makes all sorts of plastic items using different materials for various purposes.  My feelings are:  they are generalists and they do as good of work as can be expected from anyone except a specialist in polycarbonate forming.

The material is Makrolon, a polycarbonate.  The sheet stuck onto the plastic is shown.  This is a legal windshield material in AMA, DLRA, FIM, USFRA, and SCTA.  The material is very clear.  There is none of the bluish or yellowish tint that some clear plastics possess.

The windshield was vacuum formed.  It is shown on the table like it was removed from the mold.  Some sawing is needed to cut off the flange and the back side.  The next few posts will discuss what I would do different next time and the things I did correctly.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 07, 2012, 11:50:57 PM
Several materials were considered for this windshield.  Aircraft grade acrylic was one.  There are several quality grades.  The premium ones for military helicopter windshields seem to be most appropriate.  The advantages are it can be drape or vacuum formed over the mold, it is comparatively easy to polish out defects, and it has less memory.  In other words, there is less tendency for it to assume its original flat state when it cools.  The disadvantages are it is not known if it is accepted by some sanctioning bodies and it is expensive.  The local shops in my area wanted me to buy a whole sheet to get the one little windshield.  They said they do not use the stuff on a normal basis and they do not want the leftovers.  This seems fair.  Unfortunately a single sheet costs over $500 for a lesser quality grade and just under $1,000 for the best grade.  This is too much money for the old walrus.  No acrylic for this guy.

PETG was considered.  Many grades are impact resistant and some are used for airplane windshields.  It can be drape or vacuum formed over the mold and the cost is very reasonable.  Just under $100 for a sheet of impact resistant material, as I recall.  See the Utah Belly Tank build diary by Elmo Rodge.  This is what I wanted to do and did not.  I was worried about SCTA and DLRA approval.

The polycarbonate is what I chose.  It could not be drape formed over the compound curves on this windshield.  It has too much memory.  It could be vacuum formed and that is the method that was used.

The shield is shown on the mold.  It shrank about 1/8 to 1/4 inch in length when it cooled and it cannot fit entirely over the mold.  I was aware this would happen and the fairing is not finished where it will attach to the windshield.  This will be done with the windshield in place.  This way, everything will fit.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 08, 2012, 10:47:32 PM
The windshield is vacuum formed with a flange around it.  It is awkward to cut it off with any of the saws I have.  This tile cutting bit in a Dremel tool does the job.

The mold was made on the bike.  It is put back on and the windshield is put on top of it.  Now it is time to form the sheet metal around the windshield base.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: maguromic on May 08, 2012, 11:03:38 PM
Very interesting build. Tony


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 08, 2012, 11:44:26 PM
Hi Tony.  A few of your ideas have been adapt-a-fitted into this thing.  We share a few things in common.  Both of us are new at this and we bring in experience from other areas of motorsport. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 20, 2012, 10:27:36 PM
This book is fairly recent with a 2011 copyright date.  It is ISBN 978-1-934709-47-4 "Performance Automotive Engine Math" by John Baechtel.  The book lists a lot of formulas like many others.  The difference between it and most are the explanations about what the numbers mean.  John is a land speed racer and there is a lot in the book that is useful for this.  It is money well spent for this guy.  The chapter on atmospherics and combustion math, by itself, made the book worth the purchase price.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 22, 2012, 11:10:52 PM
The lathe was taken apart, all parts inspected and cleaned, and it was adjusted and put together.  Only two gears were damaged, the bevel gears for the automatic cross feed on the carriage.  They work for now and I will find another pair in good condition.  All of this taking apart and putting together showed me how everything works.

In my apprentice days we moved from machine to machine through the shop.  I started on a planer, then the broacher, a mill, and a shaper.  The drill press and a file were part of the program, too.  The last machine before graduation to journeyman was the lathe.  The journeymen "picked their machine."  They were expected to master them and they rarely switched from one to another.  The job was boring most of the time.  Many of the same parts were made and I watched the same things go back and forth or spin around all day.  It was a dark and smoky place and I smelled like a fish at the end of the day.  The cutting oil.  A mechanic's job supported me when I was going through machinist school.  That was a much better job - I was always doing something interesting.  I quit before I got my journeyman card.  This is something I always regret.  I never ran the lathe.  The only time I used one was in school.  Now I get an opportunity to learn what I missed.   

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 23, 2012, 10:15:09 PM
Grinding and wood work happen in this cellar.  Sawdust and grit are the by products.  It is a good idea to cover the lathe.  This cover is on sale at Cycle Gear at 50 percent off.  $19.95 and the sale is still happening.  A great machine cover.  The "Cruiser" size fits perfect.  This is the last lathe post.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jonny Hotnuts on May 23, 2012, 11:08:05 PM
Mr. WobblyWalrus,


I was wondering if your team name was taken from the PD Eastman book:

(http://books.google.com/books?id=N5r_LejSm5oC&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&l=220)

Stupid question, just had to know.

~JH


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 24, 2012, 11:10:57 PM
Yes, the dogs are the inspiration for the team.  They are faster.  It will take awhile to go like them.  Burt Munro is an inspiration, too.  Strangely, I get the occasional urge to pee on a tree.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 28, 2012, 11:43:03 PM
Polycarbonate is not the easiest plastic to form.  Several methods were discussed with plastics formers in Salem and Portland.  Vacuum molding was the best and probably only method that could be done with the equipment and expertise around here, I gathered from the conversations.  The local ovens are not very big.  My mold was 22 inches wide and it barely fit in the forming oven.

The windshield is a bit narrow and some windows are added to get side vision.  They are lexan and they are cut out of a Triumph windshield that Cascade Moto Classics had in their attic.

Tomorrow morning I will add the tachometer and the Spitfire decals to the sides.  This big fairing project will be finished.  The time I am spending on the build is controversial.  I get up real early in the morning and do most of it before work.  That way I can be with the family in the evenings.  It is a good system except I cannot get a lot of sleep.  It will be a good day when this thing is done for the year.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 31, 2012, 12:03:12 AM
The tach is installed in the very front of the fairing just under the windshield.  A better location than before.  Maybe I will read it now.  The fairing is done except for cleaning it up and sanding and polishing the windshield.

The drag that keeps me from getting that red hat is a combination of friction and aerodynamic resistance.  The aero drag can be expressed as frontal area x coefficient of drag.  The new fairing has much more frontal area than me sitting on the bike or the old fairing.  The only way I can compensate for this is to drastically reduce my coefficient of drag.  Metal mutilation starts on the bike's back end now.  I need to get this right in order for everything to work.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on May 31, 2012, 09:56:26 PM
The task now is to examine the bike sides and to remove anything extraneous that hangs out into the wind.  The goal is to minimize the separation of airflow from the fuselage and consequently, to lessen the turbulent wake.

Somewhere in the FIM regulations I read about the number plates being made from unbreakable plastic.  I made some with the thought it was required.  Lots of FIM racers, including the one that beat my old record, simply paste the numbers onto the fairing or tail sides.  I am clearly guilty of excessive thinking.  The plastic number plates went into the recycle bin and I will paste everything onto the sheet metal.  There is no shortage of that, as shown in the pix.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 05, 2012, 11:49:24 PM
Sparky, the gearing statistics for the Triumph.  Hopefully this is what you need.

Tire slip is 2% for dry tight salt, 5% for damp tight salt, 7% for wet loose salt, tire circumference is 79 inches (steel belted radial, hardly any growth), final drive is 19 tooth drive sprocket with 40 or 38 tooth driven sprockets, fifth gear ratio is 1.07 to 1, fourth gear ratio is 1.29 to 1, primary drive ratio is 1.74 to 1, target rpm is 7,500, redline is 8,400. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 07, 2012, 12:02:50 AM
The rules for AMA and BUB require that I run AMA streamlining regardless of whether or not I am running for a record.  The big reason for running this year is to try out the streamlining for the Australia trip.  I need to make sure everything works OK, figure out suspension settings and gearing, and get data to calculate the drag coefficient.  The AMA tail skirting is minimal and running AMA will not give me the experience and data I need.  Running FIM would work.  It is a lot of money and I do not have it.  RWB, run-watcha-brung, will be my class.  It is a short course class.  One mile to get up to speed, one mile timed, and one mile to shut down.  This is enough length for what I need to do.

Any streamlining work requires the rules to be handy along with tin snips, hammers, coffee, etc.  The future for me is RWB, DLRA, FIM, and maybe USFRA.  The DLRA and FIM rules are what I am building for now.

The Arrow pipes I was using had large megaphone shaped silencers that stuck up and out.  They were bad for aero.  Some smaller and more streamlined silencers will be fitted.  The shiny and triangular lower sheet on the skirting is added.  This area was occupied by the bulky Arrow mufflers.  This added skirting should be a big help.

This is an FIM tail.  It does not project more than 1/2 the rim diameter past the rear tire.  At least 135 degrees of the rear wheel is visible from the side. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 10, 2012, 11:19:28 PM
Cooler air in the intakes make more power.  The air filters are inside of the seat tail unit and there is hot air in there during runs.  Some cutouts and slots let cool air into the filters.  The back end is braced to prevent fluttering.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 10, 2012, 11:32:52 PM
The DLRA allows the tail to extend up to 10 inches beyond the rear tire.  This is 1.5 inches more that the FIM limit.  The tail is extended this amount.  It is made so the 1.5 inch extension can be quickly removed when I run FIM.

The tail can extend down to four inches above the salt with the rider seated according to DLRA rules.  It seems to be a good idea to have the tail this low if the bike has low streamlining ahead of it.  Mine does not.  The shrouding for a low tail would catch a lot of wind and it might affect the handling.  I kept the tail shrouding above the rear axle.

The entire tail section including the seat pad weighs 20 pounds.  It weighs much less than all of the touring gear that is removed when it is fitted.  This has been a lot of work.  The tail is done.  Exhaust tuning is next.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 13, 2012, 12:25:31 AM
Exhaust tuning is the last task of the year - except for putting everything together, going to the salt, racing, and squeaking past the 140 mph barrier.  This build diary addresses basic stuff.  This theme is followed for exhaust tuning.  "Performance Automotive Engine Math" by John Baechtel is used as a reference.

Two of many things to worry about in exhaust tuning are flow and sonics.  A big river is an analogy.  We watch if flow by us from the shore.  The water always goes in the same direction.  Its speed and flow are governed by channel characteristics such as size, gradient, and smoothness.  There are waves on the river.  Wind waves going one way, boat wake waves another, and waves from a tossed rock following a different path than any.  The waves travel quickly in any and all directions regardless of flow direction.  This is like the sonic waves in the exhaust system.

First, is the header I am using is the right size?  It worked good on the 790 cc engine.  Will it be OK for the 865 and 994 cc motors?  The procedure is to analyze it using three methods that were developed independently from each other:  Baechetl's formula, A. Graham Bell's method, and Meaux Racing's PipeMax program.  (Baechtel Chapter 8.)

Baechtel's relationship says that primary pipe diameter is related to the amount of exhaust that must pass through it, and this depends on cylinder volume and rpm.  This makes sense.  The attached pages show the calcs for the three motors.  The pipes I have are 1.40 inches diameter, the 790cc engine needs 1.50 inch pipes, the 865 cc one requires 1.57 inch ones, and the 994 cc needs 1.68 diameter tubes.  Clearly, the headers I am using are too small.

How much too small?  Looking at diameter and comparing the standard Triumph pipes to the ones needed for an 865 cc engine:
[(1.57 - 1.40) / 1.40] x 100 = 12%, not much smaller.  This is misleading.  Flow capacity is related to cross-sectional area.  Looking at area and comparing the standard pipes to the ones needed for an 865 cc engine:  [(1.95 - 1.58) / 1.58] x 100 = 23%.  The pipes I am using are 23% too small when looking at area.  Sometimes it is a good idea to take a good look at how things are compared to each other.  The next post will be about Bell's method.

       



 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 13, 2012, 10:21:17 PM
The A. Graham Bell equations as presented in Baechtel's book were problematic.  The Bell formulae I used were from some old notes and they are shown on the calculation sheets.  The answers from the note equations are more consistent with the PipeMax results and Baechtel's equations.  The Bell equations also show that I need bigger diameter headers.

The Bell formulae are familiar.  Baechtel's equations and PipeMax are not.  My usual method is to use both the old stuff I am used to, alongside the newer methods, until I am comfortable with the new.  Another thing I do is analyze my last good engine as well as the motor I am working on.  The old engine is a good reference point.  All of this is extra work and it pays off in the long run.  It helps me to spot errors and mistakes and to recognize useful trends.  The PipeMax analysis is next.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 14, 2012, 11:41:01 PM
The March dyno work was to sort out the spark advance curve and the intake and exhaust systems.  A slipping clutch stopped everything before the exhaust could be done.  The jetting curves for the selected advance curve and intake system are shown.  The # 145 jets were chosen with 72.56 hp at 6800 rpm and 60.37 lb-ft torque at 5,500 rpm.

This dyno session was set up to be as close as possible to the March one.  The same dyno, operator, tire, tire pressure, chain, sprockets, etc.  Neither time was the bike cinched down on the roller.  The fuel was premium non-ethanol unleaded purchased from the same pump at the Lincoln country store.  We forgot to set the correction factor to SAE on today's work.  It is SAE on the March pulls and Standard on today's.  The big difference was the exhaust system.  A set of Arrow 2 into 2 pipes with no baffles was the March setup.  Today's setup was some old stuff from my bone pile.  All of the mufflers in my junk heap are rusted out so I had to buy a new pair.  Oh the agony.. I had to purchase something.

Jetting pulls are shown.  We chose the #135 jets with the brown curve.   84.83 hp at 8,400 rpm and 60.52 lb-ft torque at 6,500 rpm.  The engine wanted to pull higher than 8,400 rpm.  The rev limiter prevented this.  I am sure glad there are Arias pistons and Carillo rods in this thing.

Posting attachments is troublesome this evening.  The charts will be on the next post or on a post tomorrow.     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 14, 2012, 11:41:38 PM
The dyno graphs.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 14, 2012, 11:46:05 PM
Another attempt at posting the graphs.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 16, 2012, 06:39:37 PM
The data is collected for PipeMax.  The preliminary volumetric efficiency estimate is 100%.  The Triumph cam data was at 1 mm lift.  I had to plot out the lift vs duration curves on graph paper and figure out what they would be at .050 inch lift.  It is very important to do this.  The lobe center angle is in cam degrees.  See the camshaft chapter in Baechtel's book and he will explain this.

Calculating the volumeteric efficiency to match the dyno'ed horsepower is the first task.  My readings are from a chassis dyno.  A common assumption for bikes is a 10% loss in engine horsepower for the drive train loss and the tire to dyno roller loss.  The chassis dyno hp is multiplied by 1.1 to estimate engine dyno results.  I need to do this.  The data used to develop PipeMax is from engine dynos and I need to enter engine dyno hp to get the program to work right.

The data sheet for the 790cc engine is shown.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 16, 2012, 06:47:07 PM
The "calculate torque and horsepower" option is chosen in PipeMax.  The volumetric efficiency (VE) reading is changed a percent at a time and the program is rerun.  When the horsepower calculated by PipeMax matches what I got on the dyno (corrected to engine dyno) readings, I am done and ready for the next step.  The little motor is estimated to have had 108 percent VE.  This is a reasonable value considering its state of tune.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 16, 2012, 11:55:47 PM
The Triumph uses a single pipe with a muffler for each cylinder.  This most closely resembles a primary pipe for a header.  The PipeMax recommendations are shown.  Note the recommended pipe size and the harmonic lengths.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 16, 2012, 11:59:54 PM
The pipe and the harmonic lengths are plotted on this graph.  Note that the cross-pipe between the headers is located very close to the most desired harmonic length.  Also, the headers are a bit large for the little 790 cc motor.  This system worked very well for that engine.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Moxnix on June 17, 2012, 12:31:57 PM
At what elevation do you abide, Wobs?  Always enjoy your thread, thanks.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 17, 2012, 07:25:53 PM
Thanks for the compliment.  The elevation here is 135 feet, more or less.

There are things I do before exhaust tuning, such as everything else.  The exhaust is the last thing I do.  The jetting should be OK and I should have a dyno printout, too.  These things are what I ask myself when I look at the printout.  Do I need to do any exhaust work?  Do I need to do more than that?

First, I look at the horsepower peak.  Dost it occur at the right rpm?  Exhaust tuning might not be needed if it does.  Then I look at the torque numbers.  My experience is that I cannot significantly increase peak torque with exhaust tuning.  More work than exhaust tuning is needed if the peak torque is too low.

The peak torque is 60.37 on the chassis dyno before the exhaust tuning.  This will be the peak torque after tuning, I assume.  The 60.37 is multiplied by 1.1 to get the estimated chassis dyno torque of 66.4 lbs-ft.  This is entered into PipeMax as an average value.  The desired Peak HP RPM is entered.  This is 7,400.  The "calculate HP and torque" option is selected.  The VE is changed until the average peak torque calculated by PipeMax is the same as the dynoed value.  The VE is 108 percent.  The first attachment shows all of this.

Now Pipemax is asked to calculate the header dimensions.  The second attachment shows the results.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 17, 2012, 07:39:39 PM
PipeMax has gives me some harmonics and recommended header diameters.  The OEM header pipes with a set of new glass paks are plotted on the graph along with the harmonics.  The cross-pipe is near the 3rd harmonic.  This should work good.  I put the exhaust system on the bike.         


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 18, 2012, 08:44:38 PM
The last post gives shows the calcs that were used to figure out the exhaust system.  The dyno runs are done.  The last step is to use the dyno data to recalculate the VE.  The header pipe harmonics are recalculated, too.  These are "As Built data."  They go into the build records.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 18, 2012, 09:06:00 PM
The as built pipe sketch.  For all practical purposes, and when error is considered, the cross-pipe is at the 3rd harmonic.  Dyno tuning with two additional cross-pipes an inch and a half either way would be needed to perfect the system.

The graph shows how I stole torque from the midrange and shifted it to the top end.  This is exactly what I want for LSR and the glass paks with the cross-over pipe will be the race headers.  The Arrow pipes give better torque and power for the street and they will be my road setup.  Maybe.

This engine is putting out 1.8 horsepower per cubic inch.  This is a big number for an air cooled twin that runs on unleaded ragular gas with air filters.  Especially when it is tuned by some clown on his driveway with a bunch of books.  All I can do is mess it up if I work on it more.  This engine is done.  The 790cc motor was "Baby Bear."  This 865cc one is "Mama Bear."  The parts are on order for 994cc "Papa Bear."           


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 21, 2012, 12:20:00 AM
It looks like the 865 cc motor will be the one I run in AUS.  The head will be taken off this winter to install the racing valve springs and keepers.  This gives me an opportunity to increase valve sizes and change to hotter cams.

My intent is to keep the rev limiter at 8,400 rpm.  Two of the four Pipemax sheets are posted.  Does anyone see any room for improvement?  What in my setup looks good?

Any advice is appreciated.  I do not know what a lot of these numbers mean.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on June 21, 2012, 05:24:38 AM
Bo,
I'm certainly impressed by all the data you've assembled, but I can't help you with interpreting it!  Looks like I'll have to go back to school. Amazing that the "British Custom Exhaust" added almost 10 horsepower in the top end, which is what you need for Bonneville.  It also looks like you would achieve a few more horsepower with a few more RPMs.  I'd tune it for your target speed at the 8400 rpm limiter, and maybe disable the limiter for the final run if it wants to keep pulling.   In any case, you seem to be squeezing more horsepower out and I think you've go a real handle on the direction you want to take.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 24, 2012, 01:05:26 AM
Tom, a year ago I looked at the ways of making more power.  Bigger displacement was one.  Spinning the motor faster was the other.  More cubic inches looked like the best solution.  There was a lot less stress on the engine if I could keep the rpm below 8,000.   

The first few pages of the PipeMax printout is Imperial units.  The last couple are in metric.  I tossed the metric stuff.  The answers to all of my questions were in the trash can on the last page just after the metric data.  There were instructions on what to look for in all of the data.

Using PipeMax, the #813 cam with the ported head and the 2mm larger intake valves are plenty adequate for the 865cc engine.  Then I entered the bigger bore size and compression of the 994cc engine.  The cam, valves, and ports are adequate for this bigger motor, too.  This is good news.  I thought I would need a hotter cam, bigger valves, and other expensive stuff to go with the 994cc kit.  Things I cannot afford.  I do not need them and the kit is paid for.  All I need to do is to install it.  The big motor will be used in AUS.  Definitely.

The cross-pipe at the 3rd harmonic makes the exhaust system work.  Almost any non-restrictive muffler can be used, such as Norman Hide Toga's, Triumph Performance Predaters, etc.  The British Custums "sleepers" have the best aerodynamics and I could get a deal on them, price wise.  They are OK for racing where noise is not a factor.  They are too loud for the street and the way they are mounted is kinda hokey.  Triumph off-road mufflers with Triumph headers or the Arrow pipes and mufflers are what I use on the street.  They work OK and are fairly quiet.   

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 25, 2012, 12:51:49 AM
Ol' Bob Bakker (BAK189) will be missed at BUB.  He was friendly and I always felt that if I needed something he would help me.  I never did, but it was always assuring to know that he was nearby.

The front fender hit the fairing when the steering was at full lock and the forks were fully compressed.  The middle of the top of the fender is slimmed down so it will not hit.  It is an ugly job.  I tried to make it smooth and the harder I worked at it the lumpier it got.  This winter I will anneal it and beat it with a slap hammer.  That might pretty it up.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on June 25, 2012, 05:24:45 AM
Bo,
I sure could use some of your metal working skills right now to get some duct work finished on my build.  BTW, you probably won't hit maximum compression while turned to full lock.  If you do, I'd suggest you bail out!
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on June 25, 2012, 07:09:41 AM
I'm sure at that point the bailout will be totally involuntary!  :-D :-D :roll:

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on June 25, 2012, 06:36:20 PM
ww,
as I read number 803 my thoughts were exactly the same as 804 and 805.

but, you never can tell.

bf


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 26, 2012, 12:15:28 AM
Fussy tech inspections worry me more than anything else.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 27, 2012, 12:45:27 AM
The new exhaust setup that makes 84 horsepower gives me awful gas mileage on the street.  Low to mid 30's.  The cross-pipe is at the 8,000 rpm third harmonic length of at 22.5 inches.

A few months ago there were a number of posts when I was monkeying around with baffles in the Arrow headers.  The baffles were deliberately designed so the upstream end would to reflect a wave back to the engine.  Lots of trial and error testing was used to find the optimum length for the baffles.  Gas mileage was in the 40's when I used them and they had the right length.

PIpeMax shows me why the baffles work well on the street.  The 3rd harmonic is at 55.3 inches at 3,500 rpm.  That is the engine speed I usually use when I putter around.  Today I measured the Arrows with the baffles in them.  The distance between the upstream ends of the header pipes and the upstream ends of the baffles are close to this length.  This makes the engine more efficient in normal street use.

It makes sense, considering the cost of gas, to switch the exhaust system and intake bell lengths from street to race configuration and vice-versa as needed.  It is no big deal.  I run one race a year.   



 

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 28, 2012, 12:12:38 AM
The white thing is my windshield.  The wood I used for the mold shrank and expanded during the forming process.  There were little recesses across the inside of the windshield at 3/4 inch intervals.  I used poplar for the mold.  Kent plastics told me to use a hard and tight grained particle board for the mold.  They said it would not shrink or swell.  I looked at this stuff in the lumberyard and did not buy it.  It did not seem possible to get a smooth finish on it.  I was not thinking about the primer on top of the particle board.  It would have made a smooth finish and I should have used it.  The upper surface had pock marks from gas bubbles that escaped during the forming process.     

The windshield is sanded smooth on both surfaces with 220 grit paper.  This gives it the white color and I did the work by hand.  The buffer and polishing wheels do not work on this polycarbonate.  They get the plastic hot and they smear it around rather than put on a good finish.

This has been a cold and wet summer.  The berry crop is great.  Gretchen bakes the pies and I pick the berries.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on June 28, 2012, 05:12:36 AM
If it's any consolation, the pie looks great!
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 29, 2012, 12:16:28 AM
The sad thing is I was discussed the windshield several times with two plastic experts.  One was equipped for and good at vacuum forming and the other was a good drape former.  I had PETG literature and we talked about drape forming it.  The draping expert said he would do it.  I chickened out and went with polycarbonate.  What a mistake.  It will take me weeks to sand and polish this thing.  Polycarbonate is a material for experienced experts with specialized storage facilities where it can be kept dry.  Vacuum forming molds need some expert craftsmanship, too.  Homeboys like me should use PETG that is draped over felt covered forms.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on June 29, 2012, 12:34:00 AM
Having had some experience working with polycarbonate I would suggest you hang that windshield on the wall and use what you've learned to build another. By the time you manage to work it to any sort of clarity, even if you do succeed, the varying thickness will lead to large amounts of distortion to the point that you may as well use a piece of metal. The metal would probably be less annoying.

Experience is a great learning tool but too many times I hate gaining that experience!  :| :| :|

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 01, 2012, 10:48:36 PM
The defects were oriented across the windshield from one side to the other.  I sand with 220 grit paper at a 90 degree angle to the defects until they are removed.  This is sanding lengthwise along the fairing.

Now I mark a grid on the underside with a Sharpie laundry marker.  The grid is parallel and perpendicular to the windshield sides.  Next, I draw a grid on the top.  The lines are diagonal to the sides.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 01, 2012, 11:07:16 PM
Now I start sanding.  The object is to sand off the grid so it cannot be seen.  Marks oriented cross ways and length ways show me I need to sand on the underside.  Diagonal marks tell me I need to sand the topside.  Lengthwise sanding was used for these grits:  220, 400. and 800.  Crosswise sanding was used for these:  320 and 600.  I alternated the sanding direction as I worked down through from coarse to finer grits.  This week I will sand crosswise with the 1000 grit and lenthwise with the 1200.  Wet sanding works best.

My oldest daughter and her husband went from Fort Drum where he is stationed to Port Alexander on Lake Ontario.  There was a Harley Davidson rider group meet there.  Thousands of them on choppers.  They filled the town.  She just got off the phone after telling Rose and me what they saw.  All I could tell her was the old saying "there's harley guys and there is everyone else."
   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 05, 2012, 08:28:13 PM
Sandpaper is great for finishing lots of things and optical surfaces are not one of them.  The shield was sanded with 220 grit to take out as many blemishes as I could detect.  Then I moved onto 320, 400, 600, 800, and 1000 grits.  Each was sanded at right angles to the sanding direction of the coarser grit.  The sanding was done until all scratches from the previous grit were removed.  This was easy to see.  The coarser grit scratches were across the direction of sanding for the finer grit.

The Micro-mesh pads are a lot better for polishing out the plastic.  The stock removal must be done before they are used.  They are good at smoothing out surface scratches - not leveling.  The pads are sold by Rockler Woodworking, a national chain.  Mine were bought at their store in Beaverton.  The Micro-mesh grits I used were 3200, 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000, and 12000.  The 12000 grit leaves a finish surface with adequate optical quality.  No further polishing was done.

It took 4 hours of wet sanding per grit with 4 more hours each for the 220 and 3200 grits.  That is 52 hours sanding for one little bike windshield.  This should be factored into the time estimate for making a shield with this method.  A big car windshield would be a bit much.

 



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: oz on July 07, 2012, 05:45:22 AM
Thanks WW received secret weapon today I aint sure if this gives us an unfair advantage but my lips are sealed as to its power your secret is safe with us!!

Cheers Oz


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: thefrenchowl on July 07, 2012, 05:29:58 PM
Hi, wobblywalrus

When I was repairing airplane UHF radios in the French Air Force, we were making a lot of small polycarbonate tools and screwdrivers on a small lathe...

The only good way we had to polish them afterwards to perfection was tooth paste, it works a treat spread on a mop attached to a hand drill or anything than can spin a bit.

Patrick


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 07, 2012, 07:00:44 PM
It took 4 hours of wet sanding per grit with 4 more hours each for the 220 and 3200 grits.  That is 52 hours sanding for one little bike windshield.  This should be factored into the time estimate for making a shield with this method.  A big car windshield would be a bit much.

HFS Bo!...52 hours? :-o :-o...you weren't tempted to buckle at any point and use a random orbital ? I've knocked ours back twice using wet sanding following a blast with 180-220 on the R.O.S I've then gone p600, p800, p1200, p2000...being further away means the optical clarity of ours isn't so critical but it's still pretty good. I always find it is the very last passes that are a mongrel on that stuff.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 08, 2012, 12:05:00 AM
Goggs, my experience, too.  I buggered up a PC windshield repair polish on the last pass with a mop wheel on a bench grinder.  It melted the finish and I had to start over.  I was told to slow down the wheel.  I had some luck with mounting the 6-inch diameter mop on a drill press and spinning it at 1000 rpm.

I never used an orbital sander and know nothing about them.  I would have tried it if I woulda known. 

I tried the toothpaste polish and it works good.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 10, 2012, 12:34:09 AM
The finished windshield.  The fit is perfect, the materials are the best, and the finish is wonderful.  Optical quality be funky. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on July 10, 2012, 11:40:03 AM
Wobbly, all I can say is you're a much more patient man than me.  :-D :-D :cheers: :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: oz on July 10, 2012, 11:55:55 AM
I have never attempted to do anything like that you make it look easy...kinda you have alot of patience


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on July 10, 2012, 02:15:58 PM
The windshields, 3, that Frank Martinez made for the Target 550 'liner need NO attention at all.

There is no distortion and as clear as an automotive OEM piece.

I can give you his address if you need it.

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 11, 2012, 12:11:47 AM
Sure, Freud.  I can use the address.

The experts around here told me not to exceed 1000 rpm with a 6-inch diameter mop.  The drill press is running at 850 rpm.  This is Patrick's French air force toothpaste polish trick.  The toothpaste is a very gentle abrasive and it works good on this soft plastic.   The saying goes "They wonder why their record went ... they didn't polish their shield with Pepsodent."

This method is not the best way to make a windshield.  A person needs to be perfect in the molding process to avoid distortion. This is hard for a homeboy to do.  In the future I would order one from Kent at Airtech or have one made by Gustafson, Martinez, or another expert.  This is a tight year for money and that explains my motivation.  The distortion is not that bad and I can live with it for now. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 13, 2012, 12:14:11 AM
The trailer bearings are inspected, cleaned, and regreased every year.  The hub is a real basic setup.  This time there is some evidence the bearing inner races were spinning a little bit.  See the wear marks on the axle.

My memory tells me this is an indication I did not have enough preload on the bearings when I assembled the hub last summer.  Is my thinking correct or do I have it backwards?     


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: charlie101 on July 13, 2012, 06:12:14 AM
I can't tell if the inner race fitting is tight enough on the axle and can't know if you preload too little or too much, but my thinking is if the bearing runs hot, the inner ring expands and is more likely it will spin on the axle. After a while, a loose conical bearing will show fretting from vibrations on the rolls or race and a tight bearing will show contact wear from rolls sliding or lack of lubricant film (matte rings of wear on the race rings).  If the race fitting is not enough on the axle, one way to torque the inner races together and prevent any likelihood of spin is, you can make a distance tube (in one or two parts) with shims between to adjust preload with.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jon on July 13, 2012, 08:35:41 AM
Tapered rollers will last a lot longer a little bit loose compared to a little bit tight.

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 15, 2012, 11:59:47 PM
A virus got me.  It was a page that said I made some sort of federal crime of copyright infringement and I would need to send money to get my computer unlocked.  It took a few hours to get that one deleted out of the system.

Most everything I read on the internet under "small utility trailer wheel bearing adjustment" says to not use any preload.  They say to provide a very small amount of free play.  This was hard to set with the castle nut I had.  I could only set and hold the nut at 1/6 turn intervals with the cotter pin.  The castle nut is to the left in the photo.  The standard nut and pressed steel retainer on the right is from some sort of Ford.  It allows me to set and hold the nut at any place I want with the cotter pin.  This gives me a lot of precision when I set and lock the axle spindle nut. 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 18, 2012, 12:12:22 AM
One of the fast Aussie bikes had some stability issues last year when a tail was fitted.  A number of us with "tailed" bikes have concerns.  I certainly was extra careful during the tail design.  The main reason I will be running in run-watca-brung class this year is it gives me an opportunity to try the new tail and to make adjustments.

The front of the tail needs to be as wide as my butt and there is a maximum length it can be.  This is from my arse to 8 inches beyond the back of the rear tire.  The wheelbase is lengthened three inches and this gives me some additional distance.  This distance is 2.65 feet.

In this 2.65 feet I could do two things.  One is to taper the tail to a point as seen from a top view.  This would eliminate base drag.  A problem is the taper angle would be fairly severe and it is likely the air flow would detach from the sides.  We almost always run in some sort of side wind.  This would mean the flow would detach from one side and not the other, or it would detach at different locations on each side.  The air pressure on the sides of the bike varies when the flow attaches and detaches.  This could lead to handling issues.  It was decided to avoid a pointy tail.

The tail skirts are 0.85 feet apart at the end of the tail.  This is a truncated end and it creates base drag.  The sides do not have a severe taper, though, and it is likely the air flow will stay attached throughout their length.  Another advantage of a slighter taper is, when and if the flow does detach, there is less turbulence downstream from the detachment point along the sides.

An open or closed truncated end was the next question.  There would be some pressure differential and associated forces at the very end of the bike if the end was closed.  Possibly a lifting force.  An open end seemed like a better idea and that was done.

Last was weight.  The tail is far from the bike's center of mass.  A heavy tail could create all sorts of stability problems besides aerodynamic ones.  Lots of care was used to keep it light.  It weighs 20 pounds including the seat.

I am no aero expert.  These are some of the basic things I did and hopefully they will work.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 19, 2012, 11:20:28 PM
Yesterday I was asked to look at some river bank protection in a city park.  There was a flood last year and some of the rock was washed away.  Look at what was uncovered.  The quality of the chrome plating on that old bumper is first rate.  It still looks good after being buried in a river bank for at least 50 years.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 26, 2012, 11:30:42 AM
Greetings from California.  Right now we are camped on my sisters back porch.  There are bears here.  One is big.  My family likes to live in the woods, for sure.  A couple if pix.  One is Gretchen, my youngest girl, out on the pumice plain east of Bend, Oregon.  The other is from Abert Rim.  This is the tallest exposed fault in North America.  I was too cheap to buy a new map and I had a 20-year old one.  It took a day of hard riding to find this place cause there were a lot of changes to the roads and trails in the last two decades.  It was worth it.

This is off-topic and I am a bonehead.  But what the heck.  It is the off season...in Australia.  Good luck with speedweek.  It is getting close.  Set lots of records and do not crash and burn.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on July 26, 2012, 04:52:48 PM
Thanks for the pics.........our daughter the MD works for the medical facilities in Fall River Mills, CA.   That can't be too far from your porch..........


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jon on July 26, 2012, 07:33:58 PM
Nice pics, doing stuff with your kids makes it all worthwhile IMHO.

jon


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 28, 2012, 08:45:44 PM
Dennis, Fall River Mills is in this area.  I'll call your daughter after the big crash.

Jon, my children exceed my maturity level in mid teenagerhood.  After this they do things with their friends and not Rose or me.  This is something I am enjoying while it lasts.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 13, 2012, 12:15:16 AM
The Triumph is coming along.  All the street stuff is off, all bolts checked for tightness, it is regeared, taped up, coated with preservative and ready to be dressed with the tail, fender, and fairing.  The fairing went on this afternoon.  It is a bit narrow.  The lever ends hit the sides and there is only a half inch clearance between the bar ends and the sides.  Fortunately I made the side panels removable so I could comply with FIM rules.  The FIM requires that the rider be visible from the sides.  I will take them off and this will fix the clearance problem for now.  This winter I will widen the fairing so I can use it with side panels.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on August 13, 2012, 07:49:12 AM
Can you use slightly narrower bars or even clip-ons? With all the other work you do preparing to race I would think that a bar change would be one of the easy changes with a pretty fair return on the effort invested.

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Koncretekid on August 13, 2012, 03:41:03 PM
Peter, you took the words right out of my mouth, while I went to the shop to take a photo of mine.  Bo, my fairing is 23-1/2" inside, and I manage with clip on mounts, but using cut-off Honda 350 bars.  You can barely see the bars in this photo, but they work.
Tom


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on August 13, 2012, 04:53:56 PM
my u bars are much easier than the clubman bars.
and a lot less vibration, also.

franey

you can cut up a set of buckhorn handlebars  to get the upside down u .


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 14, 2012, 12:20:38 AM
Thanks for the ideas.  Any solution cannot involve spending any money.  This evening after work I got out the torch, some hammers, the sawzall, and went to work.  It was hot out there in the sun.  The sweat dripping of my head got on my glasses and into my eyes.  I had to take my glasses off.  My eyes stung.  The heat, not seeing very well, and general bad attitude I have from working on this thing all year affected my judgement.  It was an ugly and violent scene.  I got it all sorted.  The bars turn.

This will be a good year.  Everything is falling into place.  Big speed will happen.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 15, 2012, 11:33:29 PM
Drop handlebar?  Shades of Burt Munro, it is.  Most of my internal fairing bracing and steering damper is in the way.

The handlebar was trimmed 3/8 inch on each end.  The sides were opened up as per FIM rules where the rider's arms and hands must be visible.  Now I have 1 inch of clearance all around.  Looking from the front, all of this is behind the widest part of the fairing and nothing is out in the wind.  Opening things up a bit should have a minimal, if any, effect on aero.  I will probably leave it like it is for AUS.

The bike will be on display with me there to talk about it this Saturday between 10:00 and 2:00 at Cascade Moto Classics, 13705 Farmington Road, Beaverton, Oregon, (503) 374-3353.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 16, 2012, 11:32:51 PM
The bike is done and on the trailer.  Side views with me on and off of it.  Bradley's book "The Racing Motorcycle" is what I used with a few tricks of my own.

The wheelbase is lengthened 3 inches by stretching the swing arm.  This puts some more weight on the front wheel and it helps the handling.  A six inch stretch is recommended for LSR.

Rear set foot pegs are best for LSR.  It is easier to tuck down if your legs and feet are back.  My foot pegs are half sets.  This is halfway between the standard location and rear sets.  Rose rides with me so I cannot move them too far back.  She needs room for her feet.

The 3 inch longer swing arm and half sets gives a good weight distribution for street riding.  Better than the standard bike.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 16, 2012, 11:47:39 PM
The front and the back.  The angle of convergence toward the tail is the maximum that will allow attached flow.  The tail is truncated.  Most of the aero literature says this causes a lot of base drag.  It seems their data is based on solid shapes.  My tail is open and it is likely to create a lot less base drag than the formulae indicate.

Engine cooling must work well.  I need to keep the temperature down if I intend to a run at full throttle for three miles and gain speed toward the end.  An overheating motor would slow down as it heats up.  The oil radiator and cam towers block a lot of paths for cool air to reach the cylinder head so cooling can be problematic.  The problem baffled me.  I used the spermatazoa method.  The engine is flooded with lots more cool air than it needs and hopefully a small amount will get to the important place.
   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: saltwheels262 on August 17, 2012, 06:36:15 PM
it turned out nice.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Peter Jack on August 17, 2012, 09:36:28 PM
You're certainly well tucked in Bo. Good luck!!! :-D :-D :-D

Pete


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 19, 2012, 12:37:41 AM
This motorcycle racing can be scary to think about.  It really makes sense to be safely tucked in a nice roadster for this LSR business.  I love to design and build these things.  Riding them is different.  Every year it is the same.  I get the heebee geebies about now and they do not go away until I am waved off for the first run.  My thinking clears up when the flag drops.  The first run is usually good and it shows me I was worried about nothing.  Then I make my second run with no anxiety.

Zillions of years of evolution give is the instincts to avoid doing dumb things.  Us bike racers must completely turn this off for a while.  It is hard to do.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: JimL on August 19, 2012, 01:10:47 AM
I found our Modified Roadster a lot more scary than the bike.  I like the single thrust line of the bike.

Have a fun time.....we'll be watching results soon!

JimL


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: DND on August 19, 2012, 02:44:08 AM
Heck i use to get the heebe Geebes running my B/Gasser in the 60's, after the first run then i could eat and all was ok.

I think a lot of guys & gals get them too just part of the driving package, but when you do good it is all worth it then and that is what keeps us in the seat with the gas WFO.

Don


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 20, 2012, 01:14:07 AM
Pete, Jim, and Don, thanks for the encouragement.  This is a development year and I will be busy collecting data and trying different things.  There will not be much time to worry and and the first run or two will be at part throttle while I gather tire slip data.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 22, 2012, 08:06:06 PM
The smallest rear sprocket in my collection had 38 teeth.  Last year the bike could pull a 40 tooth one.  I thought the 38 would be plenty small.  About three weeks ago I had a momentary burst of clear thinking.  Is a 38 that small enough?  First I looked at my speed vs power vs aero chart and figured out how fast I could go.  Then I did some calculating to figure the engine rpm at those speeds.  The 38 was OK for the added speed the 84 horsepower would make me go with last year's drag coefficient and frontal area.  It was too big a sprocket if the new aero helped me.  I needed to get 37 and 36 tooth sprockets quick.

A call to Sidewinder in St Charles, Illinois (630) 513-1000 did the trick.  Two billet sprockets arrived today at a reasonable price on very, very, short notice.  Normally I like them hardened.  There was no time for that.  These folks are more famous for dirt bike stuff.  They can do other things, too.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 23, 2012, 11:27:53 PM
Kawasaki Mach III's are a topic on Freud's birthday post.

It was 1969 or 1970 and I was in hi skool.  A fellow bought a Mach III.  It was the fastest bike around and he knew it.  He swaggered around and made sure every one else knew about it, too.  He would pass my friends with his front wheel in the air.  No one could keep up with him.  My buddies got to work with heavy figuring and and deep thinking.  They came up with a plan.  All they needed was someone dumb enough to try it.  This is when I enter the picture.

My bike was a 250cc Yamaha DT-1 with K-70 dirt track tires, a high compression head, bigger carb, some port work, and a Schwerma expansion chamber.  It was a dirt bike with lights.  It was not a fast street bike.  It could lean over very far in corners.  Its light weight gave it very precise handling.  All of this was needed.

The school was on a ridge overlooking the town and there were several city streets connecting it to the rest of the city.  All had two lanes in each direction and most had an island to divide the lanes in one direction from those going in another.  The street that Mr Kawasaki used to go home was mostly level for a mile, then it dropped and went down the side of the ridge in a long series of S curves.  Most were flat camber and some were off camber.  A gaggle of fifteen or so school busses also used this route.  Mr Kaw loved to do his after school blast on this road.

Mr Kaw had no power advantages on a steep downhill road, my buddies figured.  He could not handle corners at speed and especially off camber ones.  Our classmates in the school busses would be the witnesses to the whole thing.  My role was to ride in a gap between the buses.  Mr Kaw would pass me and I would pass him back on the downhill turns.

It took a few days for Mr Kaw, the busses, the curves, and me to be in the proper places at the right times.  Mr Kaw suspected nothing.  I never tried to race him before.  One day he blasted pass a couple of busses.  I was in the gap between them and the downhill curves were ahead.  I launched from between the busses and headed for him like a little missile.  He braked for the corners.  I did not.  One quick pass and he was left behind.  I shot down through the S curves and needled between a couple of busses.  He did not have the handling accuracy to follow me.  There was Woodminster shopping district at the bottom of the hill.  I pulled into a side street and hid.

My buddies plan worked.  It was humiliating to be beat by a clown riding a 250 dirt bike.  The guy was quieter after that.  I was too.  The episode scared me into a short bit of sensible behavior.  Anyway, this is my Kawasaki Mach III story.                   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: RidgeRunner on August 24, 2012, 06:56:43 AM
    And now we know where your use of logic in measured steps approach to LSR originated  :-D

             Ed


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 27, 2012, 04:14:02 PM
We got here three hours ago.  This is not an optimal situation.  Weathered out for now.  We are ready.  Its like being a stud horse in a corral and the mare is in the pen next door.  No one will come and unlock the gate.  A nice fire in the KOA fire pit and bench racing will be in order tonight.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Kiwi Paul on August 27, 2012, 10:57:32 PM
Best of Luck, Bo. I am looking forward to your report on some successful runs.....


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: SaltPeter on August 28, 2012, 12:01:07 AM
Great stuff, go fast, keep safe most of all have fun  :cheers:

Oh yeah Wobbly, Mach 111 Kwakas had a hinge in the middle of the chassis, or mine felt like it, so most bikes went round corners quicker LOL :-D

Pete
DLRA#866


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 28, 2012, 07:13:57 PM
The sign says "Bonneville Shark Week."  This is at the boat ramp early this morning.

Guess what?  Our hillbilly butts are pitted in a corner of the Triumph factory pits.  No umbrella girls or any bling.  These folks are more low key than any factory I have ever seen.  They just came to race and they are partially clueless and having a hard time just like the rest of us - with no pretense or attitude.

The bike is teched and full of race gas.  Tomorrow the salt should be great.  Tonight I will figger up some sort of organized testing and development plan. 

Moxnix, Maj, and Konkrete Kid are here.

 


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Moxnix on August 28, 2012, 08:40:10 PM
Bo, it's good to see you here.  I am amazed at your bike's parts & pieces.  Have a safe and fast time tomorrow.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 30, 2012, 06:15:57 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, Peter, Paul, and Moxnix.  All three runs were on Wednesday.  The streamlining for AUS is on the bike.  Handling was flawless in a variety of wind speeds and directions.  No nervous feelings about running it now.

The distortion in the view through the windshield was not bad when the bike was stationary.  Looking through while bouncing up and down during an actual run was different.  The view through the screen was like some sort of trip on drugs.  Then I thought "if I take drugs everything will compensate and the view will be perfect."  No one had any.  I could not test this theory.  I guess it is not the 1970's any more.

The engine pulled hard up to red line in fourth.  I shifted into fifth and it would not accelerate at all.  I used a 38 tooth back sprocket.  I needed a 39 or the 40 tooth one I used last year and I did not have one.  Speeds are low due to me not being able to tuck down and my gearing error.

Once a year I get to talk to Matt Capri and get advice.  That, and what I learned through experience yesterday, gives me a big help for next year.  This was a good meet from the test and tune viewpoint.       


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Jonny Hotnuts on August 30, 2012, 08:20:28 PM
I absolutely love it.


My OCD makes me want to know the exactly the number of rivets used in the build.....

~JH



Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: grumm441 on August 31, 2012, 08:06:15 PM
You should see his pop iviting arm
G


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 03, 2012, 12:01:29 PM
Jonny, there's a "whole lotta" rivets in that thing.

Grumm, it was great that you could stay stateside for a few weeks and come to BUB.  I hope you enjoyed it and it was nice to meet you.

There were a lot of Triumphs there.  The Triumph pits where I was had three parts.  One was the factory pit with Jason Di Salvo as their main rider.  Jason said, more or less, that they are established road racers with a lot of success.  That is not a big deal here.  Everyone is equal on the salt.   LSR is something new and they want to try it, learn, and have a good time.  This is not an exact quote.  It is what I remember.  I asked Jason if he had the full Bonneville experience and scared himself really good.  Yes, he said.  They are enthusiasts just us.

Triumph raced a 675 triple.  It looked pretty much like a standard bike with the typical mods a first time racer would do.  This is a very good bike and they are familiar with it from their road racing.  Jason made several down and back passes at just under 170 mph.  The other team bike was a big Rocket triple.  Jason made many down and back passes at just over 170 mph.  Lots of wheel spin limited speeds.  The Triumph team might have some 750 cc and 3000 cc FIM records.

It takes a lot of courage to ride one of those big triples.  They are huge and the riding position is not correct for maintaining control at high speeds.  Jason can do it.  I would be too scared to try. 

Another part of this Triumph pits was the South Bay Triumph/Triumph Performance group.  They are developing performance parts for the big Thunderbird twin.  It is in the photo.  Alan Cathcart, the well known British racer and author, was the rider.  The bike struggled to get over 130 mph.  The engine has EFI and it needs to run on unleaded to preserve the oxygen sensors.  The unleaded race gas that is available on the track works great in the little high revving Bonnevilles and that was their first choice for the bigger and much slower revving T-bird.  It did not work well in the engine the way they had it set up.

The remaining part of the this Triumph group was us at Team Go Dog, Go!  I am not a sponsored rider and I pay for everything like everyone else.  The only deals I get are when they offer them.  This is proper.  Their business is making race parts and they really pay their dues in money and time to do this.  Their work makes my racing possible.  They give me advice on how to use their stuff and this is a big help.               

   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 04, 2012, 10:37:43 PM
This is Bill Conway with his Bridgestone 100.  They are entered in the FIM class for 100 cc bikes, they made the down and back runs and passed the record inspection in impound.  Bridgestones are rare and factory racing parts even more scarce.  Bill has some in this engine.   These bikes were very innovative and well built for their time.  My best friend had one and all of us thought well of it.  It was a fast bike, relatively speaking, for a 100.  Bridgestone is a tire company and they never made a lot of money on the bike side of the business.  It was awkward.  They were trying to get tire contracts from manufacturers they competed with for bike sales.  Eventually they quit making the motorcycles.

One of Denis Manning's goals with the BUB trials is to provide an opportunity for us regular folk to participate on the world stage.  He succeeded.  Bill's smile tells it all.   


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Freud on September 04, 2012, 10:40:09 PM
She fits the size of the bike better than he does.

FREUD


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: generatorshovel on September 05, 2012, 03:01:37 AM
.  Bridgestones are rare and factory racing parts even more scarce. 
   
MMMM ? I have a Bridgestone engine hiding in a box in the shed somewhere ? (I think it has a gearbox problem ?)
Looking forward to meeting you during your trip to OZ Wobbly :cheers:


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 05, 2012, 09:45:45 PM
Tiny, it might be the way it was originally made.  There was something strange about Bridgestone shifting.  I think it was you could shift from sixth into fifth or from sixth to neutral and then to first.  This was a long time ago and I do not remember exactly.

This is for those not familiar with BUB.  You line up for the different courses at pre-stage.  An important thing is to get on the pre-stage officer's list.  There are lines for the various courses, such as international long, run-watch-brung, mountain short, etc.  The pre-stage officer releases groups to go to the various staging points.  There are two ways to make the journey.  One is to be trailered down in the traditional fashion.  The other is simply to ride the bike.  The photo shows a group of us going from pre-stage to stage.

Darwin's concept of natural selection makes this riding to the stage area possible.  These are veteran bike racers who know how to follow instructions, mostly.  The idiots are not there.  They long ago quit riding, got killed, or learned to be mature.  It all works smoothly and it is a big help for us logistically impaired folks.  Gretchen took this photo.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: Old Scrambler on September 06, 2012, 01:43:46 PM
Logically Impaired :-D :-D :-D

Regarding the Bridgestone brand........Tohatzu sold their MC manufacturing to Bridgestone but kept on making 2-stroke outboard motors.......Bridgestone sold the MC business to Kawasaki and began selling OEM tires to Honda......The Tohatzu engineers transfered through to Kawasaki.......The 1st year of Kawasaki production looks a lot like the last 2-years of Bridgestone......My friend has a LOT of parts for sale, along with a few bikes......and another friend has a Tohatzu Run Pet 50cc racer with a factory expansion chamber produced several years before Suzuki started their own history.


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 06, 2012, 10:38:21 PM
Dennis, the Kawasaki 250cc Samurai and 350cc Avenger twins were rotary valve motors just like some of the later Bridgestones.  That might be the work of those Bridgestone engineers.

My youngest boy, Werner, is at the Marine recruiter's with Rose.  He was the little blond boy that set a 175cc MPS-P record a few years ago.  Childhood is over.  Part of me wishes it would not end so soon.  The other part says it must.  It is an emotional time and more so for me than for him.  He is ready to go.

The picture shows me heading out to staging for the run-watcha-brung course.  That is the only place where I could try out the streamlining to be used in AUS.  It is a short track.  One mile of runup, one mile timed, and a mile to slow down and turn out.  Focus and aggression are the keys.  It is essential to get up to speed quick.  My strategy was pretty basic - easy in first gear, a bit more throttle in second, more throttle in third, redline the engine in fourth, and shift quick into fifth.

The times on my slips are 128.81, 130.82, and 131.18 through the mile.  This is exactly as fast as I was last year.  My speeds between the end of the kilo and the end of the mile are better indicators of how fast I went this year.  I asked BUB if they had the data to figure those out.  That is the info I will use to calculate the aero drag coefficient and other things.

I had big expectations for more speed.  The gods of speed rubbed my little puppy nose in my dung.  Some serious calculating is in order.  I need to figure out what I did wrong.  Then, it will be fixed.           


Title: Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 07, 2012, 09:02:28 PM
T