Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: octane on May 16, 2009, 07:54:08 AM
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Hi
I'm new to running methanol/alcohol.
Building a supercharged Indian 741 , 600cc...running on alcohol.
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x214/octane98/e1570c52.jpg)
You can see more about it here:CLICK (http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,5849.0.html)
On such an engine a certain amount of fuel will get forced past the rings,
diluting the oil.
A little info on the engine:
...rebored cylinders ( originally 500cc bored to (2 x 300cc) = 600cc)
...new pistons. 3 comp. rings, one oil-ring
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x214/octane98/1651f435.jpg)
...compression ratio 1:6
...originally the engine runs monograde 50 oil.
[EDITED]
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OK I better rephrase my questions:
...those of you who run on methanol;
do you all run on castor/vegetable oil ?
...what brands and types of castor oil is available in the US ?
...are there other (that is: non-castor ) types of oil,
compatible with methanol, available ?
Thanks.
Just for the fun of it,
I poured a bit of methanol into
1) ..a mineral 'Classic Castrol' oil
and
2) ..synthetic Castrol GPS oil
and stirred it
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/d1d85dc6.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/88e13e10.jpg)
..not something one would like
to have in ones engine.
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When we ran the alcohol funny car, Kendall GT-1 was the oil of choice. Since then, they have been bought out and some think that it's not as good. The color is different and that plays with people's heads. We run Kendall in the fuel car now and don't have problems, but it's not in there long either. Sometimes we put in some Prolong additive too.
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Thanks , I'm not familiar with the Kendall brand,
so I looked it up.
It seam none listed are castor oil , but mineral/synthetic oil
...so I take it you don't have blow-by methanol / oil
mix-problems
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I don't know why you want to run bean oil but I can tell you what we run in a blown alcohol 370 cu in car motor. Several brands of 70 wt both synthetic and petrolieum based. We do suffer from contamination and when it gets bad we change the oil (4 gallons). With a properly designed air oil seperating dry sump tank the contamination is much less. Oils formulated for top fuel and top alcohol drag racing tolerate the alcohol contamination better. The last time I ran bean oil was in a two stroke dirt bike.
Jim
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Thanks Jdincau.
The reason for running castor oil is that eventual blow-by methanol
will result in (tiny tiny) droplets of methanol entering the
lubrication veins, and those droplets ain't the best of lubrication.
The problem is that they will maintain being droplets (as they do not 'mix')
whereas the castor oil will absorb the methanol.
Of cause this will reduce the lubrication-capability somewhat,
but there won't be moving parts/bearings/bushings rubbing
against each other with methanol droplets in between.
Maybe I'm exaggerating the problem....as I said; I have no experience
with running methanol,
all I know is that all the speedway bikes (all running on methanol) here
run castor oil for those reasons.
They use 'Castrol Racing R', 'Castrol Racing B 353' and 'Castrol M'.
Can anyone point me to castor oil available in the US?
...or maybe some other, to me unknown, type of oil that
will absorb the methanol as castor-oil does
Thanks.
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Thanks , I'm not familiar with the Kendall brand,
so I looked it up.
It seam none listed are castor oil , but mineral/synthetic oil
...so I take it you don't have blow-by methanol / oil
mix-problems
We have breather tubes that run into the frames and then make it to a 'puke' tank at the rear of the car. The oil turns from a golden color (the old style oil was green) to a off white after just an engine warm up.
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Or would a Detergent or Non-Detergent be the difference you're looking for? At work we make powerwashers. If water getting in the crankcase of the pump with detergent oil, the oil gets milky. If the pump has non-detergent oil, the water and oil seam to separate.
Kendall GT-1 Oils http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/brands-products/kendall_brand/engine_oils.aspx
Lucas Oil Racing Oil http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=41&catid=15&loc=show&headTitle= - Lucas 20/50 Plus Racing Oil
Try these. They might be a good starting point for your search
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I know I am "old school" and also "old".........but the best lubricant in my mind is good old bean oil........
and like Octane noted it works well with alcohol.......Castrol R is what we have been using for years......
we bring it in from Europe and/or Canada....have not been able to find it in the States todate.
Bean oil is a must in a roller-bearing lower end.........I have been told that the company "British Only" here in the States has bean oil, but it is not the Castrol brand................................................................
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I personally ran Francisco oil (made in Glendale, CA?) in my panhead drag bike cause I liked the smell of burned castor in the morning. I gave my last can (bought in 1958) to a late friend who owned an automotive museum in San Francisco.
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We ran Valvoline and Penzoil 20w-50 racing oil in our sprint cars and in ten years never had a problem. We just changed oil after every night of racing and considered it a part of the cost/benefit profile of running methanol.
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I know I am "old school" and also "old".........but the best lubricant in my mind is good old bean oil........
and like Octane noted it works well with alcohol.......Castrol R is what we have been using for years......
we bring it in from Europe and/or Canada....have not been able to find it in the States todate...
Yeah: spend some time searching the net for castor oil
in the US and US oil-brands , carrying castor oil.
Strange: I just can't seam to find any, and as I understand
from different web-sites I visited, both oil-company sites and
technical / automotive forums.....in the US the argument for not having it, or using it
is that it doesn't matter with the methanol droplets, as they are 'squeezed' into the oil
when going through the oil-pump.
Another argument for using non-methanol-diluting oil
is that you don't "wash" the oil off the cylinder, whereas castor-oil would be "washed" off, by the methanol.
Makes sense.
( I did find some castor-oil, but strictly for mixing into gasoline on 2-strokes...NOT for normal lubrication)
On the other hand; this side of the pond, it's argued, as I did in my previous posts,
and, as I said; the speedway crowd runs it.
CASTROL (castor) oil is readily available from my 'local' CASTROL on-line store
in several 'types', all bearing the decription that it is 'mix with methanol'.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, gotta think(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/0fd3f386.gif)
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We ran Valvoline and Penzoil 20w-50 racing oil in our sprint cars and in ten years never had a problem. We just changed oil after every night of racing and considered it a part of the cost/benefit profile of running methanol.
OK, thanks Gwillard.
So I take it you're not having problems with oil turning into "mayonnaise",
which is what I've been warned about.
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Yeah, we had the milky-creamy stuff. That's why we changed oil after every night at the track.
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Right; so mineral/synthetic oil it will be.
Thanks all for your help !
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I just read up on the Lucas product and that looks like a good one. The new oil technology is leaps and bounds beyond the old "bean oil" days. The newer products are just flat out far superior. I'm not an alky guy but will you need to break in your motor on gas for ring seating etc?