Landracing Forum
Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials => Bville Motorcycle Speed Trials Rules Questions => Topic started by: knucklenutz on December 26, 2008, 10:43:33 AM
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The AMA Rule 12.I states: Motorcycle engines produced prior to 1956. Flat head and OVH heads, and two strokes must retain the O.E.M. heads and cases. Allowabble overborein this class is .050 inch.
Is it permissable to field an entry in this class that is comprised of O.H.V. heads on Flathead cases ? Both heads and cases are from the same O.E.M.
John K. Endrizzi
btw........ Happy Holidays` every one !
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Contact Drew Gatewood.....AMA/FIM Tech. Steward at info@gearswebsite.com
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Not unless they were on the original make and model. If it was built as a flathead it has to remain that way.
12.C. PRODUCTION, VINTAGE: “PV”
Same as 12.A. but production date prior to 1956.
12.A. PRODUCTION: “P”
The same engine must be used that was originally installed in the
specific motorcycle at the time of production. Original equipment
must include cylinders, cases (crankcases), heads, carburetion or
throttle body (stock venturi), kick-starter or electric starter.
Displacement determines the class. Increased displacement beyond
the class limit will place the motorcycle in the correct class.
GASOLINE ONLY. Fuel not permitted in this class. See section
2.F.
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i believe that dean la is correct.
franey
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Sounds like Vintage Modified, does the AMA have that class?
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Sounds like Vintage Modified, does the AMA have that class?
AMA has an M class for frames but not for Vintage engine. Vintage engine must retain original heads and cases the same as SCTA. That's the way I read it.
Larry
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Sorry to intrude.
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Remember this is under BUB TRIALS...........
SO what does Drew Gatewood say????????
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Nice to be a moderator.
Can I delete my own posts, too?
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Why were the post's from Scott and you deleted..?
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Scott,
I find that an outright lie... 8-)
You know more than you tell
You may not tell all you know
I know you know more
You know more than I
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Judging by the rule shown (as assuming it's accurate and current): "Flat head and OVH heads, and two strokes must retain the O.E.M. heads and cases", the people who wrote it know nothing about either two strokes or flat heads.
Taken literally, it is silent oncerning (and therefore permits) both later model and aftermarket cylinders on both - exactly the opposite of what they were attempting to preclude.
Again, from (several of) my previous posts:
Any person writing the rules should have some expertise in at least one of these fields, and in toto at least 1 person covering each base:
1. English grammar, spelling, syntax and usage
2. old motorcycles
3. internal combustion theory
1. is only a requirement for the final editting, but someone must be able to distinguish between "you know what we meant" from what the plain language states.
The purpose of a rule in this context (rather than a law in the criminal sense) is to prevent people from asking questions, and (if this be done) getting more than one answer.
The time-honored principle of "the intent of the legislature shall govern" is not a practical cure here, since it sends every query back to the point of origin.
Every single question raised is also a challenge to the rule itself.
If I can, by simple substitution of a few non-technical words and insertion or deletion of commas, etc. improve the quality of a rule (easier to understand, easier to enforce, fewer questions, consistent results) - and I assure you I can, it used to be my job, why are there none in authority who can either do so, or see that it's done?
2. should also be simple. I have a fair knowledge of H-D models 1930-55 (as do many others, including the original poster). I even have a chart of what parts may be interchanged, effect, how to identify, dimensions, casting numbers. What is lacking? Any sign of interest.
3. a person who does not know what function a two stroke cylinder performs should have his pen taken away from him, lest he injure himself with it.
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It's too bad that a Ford Model T engine with the dual overhead cam heads that were available in the 20s or 30s is obviously not "vintage". As is my 1950 Harley Hummer with 1955 Weber head - now I'll have to find an OEM head. At least my Puckett cylinder (modified OEM) is legit.
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"It's too bad that a Ford Model T engine with the dual overhead cam heads that were available in the 20s or 30s is obviously not "vintage".
Tom,
At what point in the vintage engine(V4) rules do you find that your OHC heads illegal? If this thread is going to start with car engines maybe someone could move to a new thread.
I hope that I have structured my question sentence correctly.
DW
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:evil: ROTFLMAO :evil: Whats the matter Your Honor?--- are you trying to be ECPC---lol :cheers:
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I e-mailed Drew and here is what he had to say :
"First off, I must inform you that the date for receiving suggestions in
regards to 2009 rules changes, insertions, or corrects from participants has past.
The rules/technical committee is presently in the process of finalizing the
2009 AMA/BUB Motorcycle Speed Trials Supplemental Rulebook;
with plans of having it available online hopefully by the end of January or first part of February."
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Let me guess: his day job is:
1. attorney
2. motivational speaker
3. appointed civil service
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I forgot to include this info that Drew had passed along:
Please note, if you or Toots have any further technical questions, the 2009 contact list is as follows.
1. ANTHONY GRILLI: AMAsports National Technical Director - agrilli@ama-cycle.org
2. KEN SAILLANT: AMAsports Flattrack Director - ksaillant@ama-cycle.org
3. DELVENE MANNING: BUB Speed Trials - delvenem@bubracing.com