Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Cajun Kid on November 10, 2008, 10:20:27 PM
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Any recommendations on a tubing bender that can do 1 5/8 or up to 1 3/4 DOM .134 ?
I would like one that can work for chassis tubing and roll cage bends without kinking.. something that is not to expensive but works.. maybe even air or hydraulic assist.
thanks
Charles
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Cajun, search that topic, I believe it is in there... :-o
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Charles, check this out http://www.jd2.com/ good price and good quality.
Randy
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This is the hydraulic/pneumatic unit I use. I have been very happy with it! So far it's done 4 cages for me - and getting ready to do # 5.
http://www.toolsplus1.com/eztube.htm
Carl Johansson
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I use a JD2 bender, can't fault it and great value too! :-D
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You can build this one for less than half of what those cost. http://www.gottrikes.com/AH_tubebender.htm
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i have been using a diacro for years and tried a JD2 the past few days on my latest bike build.... i gotta say i haven't pinched my fingers with it yet but the bends totally suck... verrrry verrrrry disappointed with the way the JD2 streaches and crushes the tube... the bends look like fricken muffler tubing... i attribute this to the die's... the ID is just a little to tight and the followers are 2 crappy alum blocks instead of a proper full follower.... gonna take the hydraulic ran off it and put it on the diacro for the next liner build...
kent
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DIACRO................... got 2 of them ....they are the best...........................you can get them on E-Bay.......
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we have been using a trick tools bender on our new car we really like how it works.
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This is the hydraulic/pneumatic unit I use. I have been very happy with it! So far it's done 4 cages for me - and getting ready to do # 5.
http://www.toolsplus1.com/eztube.htm
Carl Johansson
I second this one. I have one and it can't be beat for the number of dies it comes with, air over hydraulic and cost.
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thanks for all the info and the links.....
Charles
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Kent and others that use a Diacro bender: (1) what is the model number of your Diacro and (2) what is the largest tubing you bend? Many thanx :-)
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I have been toying with the idea of building my own bender using a gifted massive air assist hydro I have and dies from pro tools.
There are plans and recomended parts list around, I would have to mod the plans due to the cylinder size but should be sweet if I get it together.
-JH
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I have used a Diacro bender in the past on small tubing. Typically, less than 1" for both square and round tubing. The Diacro is a precision machined device and operates very smoothly. It was also manually operated with no hydraulic assist. However, I have never seen large tubing (1-3/4" or 2") bent on a Diacro. I'm talking about the round unit that is mounted with a pedestal and has many holes in it for various dowel positions. What am I missing? What model number will bend larger tubing? Is there a hydraulic Diacro set-up? TIA :-)
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I too am shopping for a bender for a future project. Some of the benders can only bend up to 90 degrees. Is that a problem? Have others who are building cages needed to bend over 90 degrees?
This one is hydraulic and does not take up much space:
http://www.pro-tools.com/200.htm (http://www.pro-tools.com/200.htm)
But only goes to 90 degrees
Thanks
Don
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Any opinions on the pro tools bender. Anyone using one?
Thanks Rocket
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I used one to build my Comp Coupe and have used it for years. It is great. We used 1 5/8 .134 wall dom and it works fine. I tried to post pic's but the file is to big. If anyone wants pic's PM me and I can send them to you.
Ken
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I the got one too,works good, mount it really good to the floor. :wink:
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If anyone has a file they want to up load but too big just e-mail it to me and I'll resize it and send it back.
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When picking out a tubing bender, look for one that starts the bend on one leg. The Mittler Bros. bender starts in the middle of the bend, so you have to buy their computer bend program or be good at calculating a radius length. Make sure you buy a tubing bender...not a pipe bender. I use a #2 Hossfeld bender. You can get a manual one thru Williams Lowbuck Tools (www.lowbucktools.com). I powered mine with a cable puller for several years before powering it with hydraulics.
Be very careful operating an bender, there is great forces at work...you can get hurt!!!
Just my experience of 30 years of running a chassis shop and being thrifty,
joe
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Hey Charles, I just wanted to show you a couple of bends I made last night with my JD2. I'm using 1 1/4" DOM .095 wall tubing. 70 degree bends with no flat spots or wrinkles. This thing is priced right and works well...
(http://www.frsengineering.com/pp25.jpg)
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....been using JD2 for over ten years, now. If you've ever watched the movie "Captain Ron" (a cult classic comedy amongst us ocean sailors)... where he says "Diesels love their oil like sailors love their rum." :cheers:
Substitute "JD2s love their WD40 like...." It does seem to help, having the draw section a bit wet. Much nicer bends and no crushing issues. I've also found it best to start with the pipe clean (get rid of the black oil by wiping down with lacquer thinner or Brake Cleaner, before oiling with WD40). There's an awful lot of grit, trapped in the black oil, that turns metal in the shoes.
Hope that helps someone.
Regards, JimL
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I just got hold of a Parker 848 Maintenance tube bender it is well Old and manual/ratchet gear but it will bend upto 1.75" with the right formers and to 180 Degrees.I reckon you will have to fill the tube with silver sand at that diameter but it shouldnt be a problem.For small diameters upto an Inch Iuse an old plumbers bender on a stand with a length of scafolding to get the required force.On the one Inch it dosent crush or kink
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll140/oz110364/12122008.jpg)
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....been using JD2 for over ten years, now. If you've ever watched the movie "Captain Ron" (a cult classic comedy amongst us ocean sailors)... where he says "Diesels love their oil like sailors love their rum." :cheers:
Substitute "JD2s love their WD40 like...." It does seem to help, having the draw section a bit wet. Much nicer bends and no crushing issues. I've also found it best to start with the pipe clean (get rid of the black oil by wiping down with lacquer thinner or Brake Cleaner, before oiling with WD40). There's an awful lot of grit, trapped in the black oil, that turns metal in the shoes.
Hope that helps someone.
Regards, JimL
That's right about starting with clean pipe. My pipes look like a candy cane because of the wiping. I smear some white engine assembly lube on the bend section before inserting it in the bender.
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Randy,
What rake are you using?
Joe
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Joe, 37.5 degrees.
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That is interesting ... my drag frame is 37/38 degrees ... I cannot measure it as accurately as you can ... I like the jackshaft ... you wont have any problems getting sprockets ... Joe
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randy those followers suck on the JD2.. i used one for the first time on that e-bike build and was very unhappy with the way the JD2 distroyed the tubing.... i will use the Diacro on the new liner build... ya sure ya wanna use 37.5 deg? you dont need it with a long wheel base the only thing it will do is make the head flop from side to side instead of making it turn.... pull it back to 35
kr
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Kent, what wall thickness did you use on the e-bike build? The close radius die I am using needs a minimum wall thickness of .083". If you use thinner wall, it will damage the tubing. I greased the tube before I bent it and the bends came out smooth and uniform...no damage was done.
btw...who needs to turn, i only want to go in a straight line :-P
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Kent, you haven't steered me wrong yet :-P..I readjusted to 35 degrees...
http://www.frsengineering.com/pp27.jpg
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Kent, you haven't steered me wrong yet :-P..I readjusted to 35 degrees...
http://www.frsengineering.com/pp27.jpg
Good one, funny man.......... :mrgreen:
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scott... i bet it took him all day to come up with that one :-D
chops... 1.25 with .120 wall... the problem was with the chineese dies that didnt fit the tubing... i held the tube up to the die and the ID was too small (cheep cast piece of crap) crushing the inside..... the dies will need to be ground to fit the tubing better.... the second problem is with the cheep 1 piece follower that is stationary... it streaches across the tube and galls the outside.... i guess the more ya use it the better it will probably work as the dies and followers wear out... i guess i/m just a picky SOB
kent
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Kent,
Grease is the tube benders friend. Use some heavy grease on the follower and it will work much better.
Rex
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Kent, I ordered my 1.25 die just before Thanksgiving. They said it would be shipped out the next week. When it didn't arrive that soon I called and was told they were having problems because they weren't happy with that die and were remaking it. Maybe Randy should call and get a replacement. The contact points on the follower on mine are aluminum. Along with the grease, they didn't mar the tube
Maybe your tube is too soft :wink: :wink:
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Maybe your tube is too soft :wink: :wink:
That's probably not the first or last time he has heard that............ :-o
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Pull it back to 31 degrees....your not building a
"chopper".......................................................................
(Sorry Willie)..................................................................
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Here's a ??? The early JD2 (used to build the old 797 mod roadster) had a block and screw arrangement to tension the shoe. My new JD2 has the shoe floating. Anybody know what's going on? I kind of liked the old setup, because the tube stayed put when you were moving to the next ratchet or pin position.
Any ideas why they changed?
thx, JimL
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Pull it back to 31 degrees....your not building a
"chopper".......................................................................
(Sorry Willie)..................................................................
35 degrees was my intended rake when I built the jig. When I tightened everything down, the angle of the shoe pulled it another 2.5 degrees out. I loosened the neck jig and welded it in place. It now stays at 35 degrees which gives me the trail I feel comfortable with. I may not be building a "chopper" , but I'm not building a road racer either.
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Back to tube benders......the best bender we have is one we build ourselves it lays flat on a steel table...is hydraulic....uses steel dies....and a sliding follower on bearings...........for some of the roadrace frames .049- 4130 is used.....real tricky to bend.
I think steel dies is a must over alum. when using the bender for production runs................
Also weld a loop on the top side of the die to keep the tube tied into the die....use grease when bending.
It should be noted that most of the tubing we bend is of a max. dia. of 1.25 with .065 wall........
no roll-gage dia. and wall, only M/C and sidecar frames.
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When you start to bend thin wall, high strength tube in small radi the whole machine gets a lot more complex. Generally you will have some sort of mandrel that is inserted into the tube to prevent the collapse of the tube wall. Sometimes it is just one piece that is cut off an an angle and then generously radiused and polished, this is positioned so that it is just in line with the begining of the bend radius of the bend die and it wipes the inside of the tube to keep the outside wall from collapsing in. If the bend radius is real small say 2 x the tube diameter you may use a "ball mandrel" which looks like a number of polished balls that are connected together and feed into the tube, they are located such that as the tube is bent the balls go partially around the bend die so they wipe both the inside and outside wall to keep the wrinkles out. And if you are going to go with really thin wall, .020 say, and high strength material, 625 inconel say, you are then going to have a pusher which grips the tube behind the bend clamp and pushes the tube into the bend as the wiper shoe bends the tube around the die. This actually move metal into the outside of the bent tube and prevents it from tearing. Of course all of this causes big friction so it takes big power to make it happen. All of the good machines are hydraulic powered.
Tube bending is as much art as science. What save us is that we are bending heavy wall tubing that does not have an extremely hight yeild strength and we bend at pretty large radii so we don't see any of these problems but when you get into the stuff that Bak189 is working on it gets a little more interesting.
Rex
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i fill all my thinwall stuff like fairing brackets and ex tubing with sand
kent
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Count me amongst the JD2/WD-40 guys. No problems with 'moly down to .058 or MS down to .083 on mine as long as the tubing is cleaned first and then sprayed. Have put 1" 1 1/2 1 5/8 & 1 3/4 through it up to about 100 degree bends without drama.
The only issue I've found is that when bending a funny car style cage (main cage hoop) that if I make the first bend, then feed the tubing in some more and make the second bend from the same direction the two bends don't exactly match and I have to mess with it afterwards. If I pull the tubing out, reverse it, and bend it from the other direction they come out virtually the same but that's a PITA for me.
No idea why this happens........
Al (I think I'm gonna like it here) in CT
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My Son bought a JD squared bender. We used it to bend all the chassis parts for my brothers streamliner and new rear cage uprights for my roadster. It was all 1 5/8 dia. x .120 wall DOM and the bends all came our just fine. No necking or kinking, we followed the instructions and cleaned the tubing and lubricated it prior to bending. He has also built some 1 1/2 dia. .090 wall bumper, shock mount, bed reinforcement and fender mounts for his truck with no problems.
Jim