Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: 55chevr on October 19, 2008, 07:19:13 PM
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Just starting a new land speed project with a 1350 cc XL/Buell engine. I was going to use my original bike frame that I ran last year and this year (9216 APS/PG1000) but decided that I will leave it together and run it when I have the urge. I used to drag race motorcycles and I would cannabilize each one for the next one. In the end I didn't have a single bike just a pile of parts. I don't want to make that mistake again so I decided to start from scratch. After all you can't have too many bikes or cars. I bought a nice 1998 S1W Buell White Lightning to use as a donor bike and I bought an old style drag frame off ebay that looks like it will be perfect. If anyone knows who made it or how these frames were originally done that would save me set up work on the mounts and tire / spacers / front end / etc.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/183b_1.jpg)
The frame appears to be for an old iron head sportster. This style was made in the late 70's early 80's. Looks like it used a car rim.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/1cd2_1.jpg)
Rear is set up for 3/4 inch axle.
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well its definately a rh drive chassis.... not 2 many bikes other than a sportster that use a rh drive
kr
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Don't forget to get a new chassis number and log book. Could save you a lot of headaches down the road and for sure give you a build history.
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im with kent its a right hand drive---the front motor plates look like a sportster (buell to 2001 ) the rear mount isnt right for a sportster unless you ran the engine without the stock rear motor mount which is possible although its usually not done--overall a nice looking frame ---keep the pics coming--willie buchta
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It looks like a rigid frame - i.e. no rear suspension. That may be good for a smooth and paved drag track, but the salts get pretty bumpy. Won't the rear wheel spend a lot of time bouncing up in the air with no traction? I have seen bikes out there with no suspension, but it sure seems that you need suspension to get maximum speed. Am I wrong?
Don
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It looks like a rigid frame - i.e. no rear suspension. That may be good for a smooth and paved drag track, but the salts get pretty bumpy. Won't the rear wheel spend a lot of time bouncing up in the air with no traction? I have seen bikes out there with no suspension, but it sure seems that you need suspension to get maximum speed. Am I wrong?
Don
Nice frame Joe, looking forward to your build. My next build will have suspension but I havent even noticed at Bonneville or El Mirage that my current bike is rigid.
Mabry runs rigids and has runs some real good numbers.
Scott
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suspension is nice but not manditory. lots of fast records set rigid. your frame doesnt look to have a lot of rake in it (good) but the leverage of the front end stuck way out front like that is .... well i'll be nice and say "60's".... the back half is way too wide and your legs will be hangin out like.... ok i'll be nice again.... one very important thing that my junk your plans is motor offset... if it is a car tire back half and an narrow iron sporty motor then you can almost guarentee that the motor is offset to the right. doesnt took like there is any outer bearing plate mounts welded to the frame... yeh yeh yeh you can buy or even make an offset sprocket but the output side of those sportster trans are junk. you'll bust the crankcases without a outer bearing support. so i'm guessin they offset the motor..... hope ya didnt pay much for it...
kent
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Scott, isnt your frame one of those off the shelve $200 paucho rigids?
kr
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Looks like the rear mount bolts directly to iron head cases without the rear aluminum mount. Front mounts are dead center of the down tubes. I will get some early sportster front mount plates and sit the evo cases in to see if there is any engine offset. I may have to cut and move the front motor mounts over if there is offset. I have to cut the ugly iron head rear mount off and fabricate a rear evo motor mount.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA190029.jpg)
Rake measures 36 degrees. Which is about what I would like. Scott, what did yours measure?
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My frame is a Paughco and they built with the up and out stretch I requested. With the new configuration I thing I set up the rake at 38 degrees.
Scott
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA190033.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA190032.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA190031.jpg)
Looks like Kent is right. This sure looks like an offset motor. The frame I ran in the 70's used a Ceriani front end and the steering neck on this frame looks alot like that neck did. It is 2-1/4 OD, .125 wall tubing. Buell races just fall right through. I will have to machine up an insert to use the inverted fork Buell front end.
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Looks like Kent is right. This sure looks like an offset motor. The frame I ran in the 70's used a Ceriani front end and the steering neck on this frame looks alot like that neck did. It is 2-1/4 OD, .125 wall tubing. Buell races just fall right through. I will have to machine up an insert to use the inverted fork Buell front end.
He usually is............
Also it looks like with the front end being way out front and you and the motor being way back that your center of gravity is going to be close to or behind your center of pressure..............something you should look into for stability purposes?? Hopefully someone with more experience on the subject will chime in.........
Scott
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what do ya want from me now scott.?.... the only time you kiss up to me is when ya want somethin.!....
Yep dem old school dragsters did shake now and then :-o
kr
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now that i see some good pics of the frame ---it is for a sportster and its made to bolt to the engine with no rear motor mount---and the stock sportster was offset in the stock sportster frame so dont be in a hurry to cut off the mounts yet--try the motor in the hole first--the motor that you have will bolt into this frame iron head sportster and late sportster and buell (to 2002 ) are the same ---i have a neo-classic buell in my shop---tomorrow i will take some measurements and get back to you-- willie buchta
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If the engine is offset, you can try hanging the bike from both ends (centerline, top of tubes and steering head) without wheels, but with the engine. Test battery position, fuel tank, oil tank, anything you can...to see if it can be made to hang perfectly vertical. Then you will know if you can live with the offset engine. Don't mount the wheels when you do this...the extra weight will fool you...making it seem like you're closer to correct, than you actually are.
The wheels are spinning, at speed, and don't count as part of the balanced mass pulled 90 degrees to gravity. When speed gets high enough, as we've all tried on motorcycles, you can hang your weight way to one side and the bike doesn't even tilt...but that doesn't mean it might not wobble! :-o
I'm going to have to do the same thing on my project, because the engine had to offset about an inch to make everything come together.
Regards, JimL
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what do ya want from me now scott.?.... the only time you kiss up to me is when ya want somethin.!....
A small little compliment and see how you get............no more compliments for you!! :-D
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what do ya want from me now scott.?.... the only time you kiss up to me is when ya want somethin.!....
Yep dem old school dragsters did shake now and then :-o
kr
Scott,
Shhhh..I was going to tell Kent that you were being "nice" because I wanted some custom bodywork... 8-)
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ya think.?....
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.
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I'm with Panic.. that oe tube frame is a nice piece the way it is imo (Paul Batts went 159mph with it and the stock '98 S1W motor - and I mean bone STOCK other then an ignition change). If you aren't going to use it and don't want much for it, I'd be interested in buying it from you.
Todd
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I'm with Panic.. that oe tube frame is a nice piece the way it is imo (Paul Batts went 159mph with it and the stock '98 S1W motor - and I mean bone STOCK other then an ignition change). If you aren't going to use it and don't want much for it, I'd be interested in buying it from you.
Todd
Todd,
I have a frame like that if Joe does not want to sell you his. I do not have the swingarm and I cut the tail off of it, but other than that it was a functional frame prior to me taking the motor out. I also have a clean title as well to go with.
Scott
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I will know a lot more after I get motor mounts and set the engine in the frame ... the offset concerns me ... not a deal breaker but a lot of work ... I have a nice stock evo sportster frame as well as the S1W to work with if I decide to go another way. Scott has offered to help extend and rake the sportster frame similar to his Paughco ...
Joe
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scott what would you take for the frame and pink willie
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Sorry to hi-jack your thread Joe......Willie PM me or we can talk this weekend at El Mirage.
Scott
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No problem ... It isnt my thread, they all belong to Slim.
Joe
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No problem ... It isnt my thread, they all belong to Slim.
Joe
And he is Seldom Seen :roll:
:cheers:
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Yeah, Seldom Seen indeed, especially on threads having to do with American V-Twins. I know where I'm not knowledgeable...and stay the heck away most of the time.
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Todd,
I have a frame like that if Joe does not want to sell you his. I do not have the swingarm and I cut the tail off of it, but other than that it was a functional frame prior to me taking the motor out. I also have a clean title as well to go with.
Scott
Yes, very interested Scott.
Can you pm me a couple pics, the vin and a price?
Thanks,
Todd
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joe did some measureing the actual center of the motor is ----1/2 inch toward the cam side of the motor from where the cases bolt together--both of the bikes i have here are set up like that --with the motor like that you can run up to a 150 rear tire with a chain --if you havent pulled your motor yet find the center line before you do --simple things like pipes can change the balance of your bike---dont over think it though its not rocket science its just land speed racing ---and dont let all of the nay sayers scare you ---do what you want to do ---if they had there way we would all be riding those cookie cutter bikes --- if you need anything let me know-----willie buchta
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found this on ebay today...it would be a good deal for you east coast guys...you could probably pick it up on your way back from maxton..... i sold it to a guy by the name of Phil Palazzolo in June 07... great stuff for a HD twin....
kent
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found this on ebay today...it would be a good deal for you east coast guys...you could probably pick it up on your way back from maxton..... i sold it to a guy by the name of Phil Palazzolo in June 07... great stuff for a HD twin....
kent
And that would be..?
J
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220297997779&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:MOTORS:1123
hope that helps :-D
kr
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Looks like a deal... :-D
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That oughta help somebodys Harley go fast.
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I used to drag race a chassis that was similar but narrower in the rear with an 8" wide Firestone car slick on a 15" aluminum rim and it was rock steady at the big end when it had some air pressure ... I lowered the pressure to 10 lbs and the result was something like EJ Potter ... Not sure why centering the engine on the long axis is critical but if centering the engine is critical I will cut the mounts off and relocate if that is the case ... Joe
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paul batts may of went 159 mph on a buell---i guarantee he didnt do it with a bone stock motor --ive owned to many of them to believe that ---the fastest one i owned would go 131 mph on a good day at sea level--i got a ticket on that one for 119 mph in a 65 mph zone---the record at bonneville in the PPP 1350 cc class is 152.338 mph and thats a 1350 not a 1200 ----willie dpombatmir buchta
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA260058.jpg)
Fab'd some motor mounts off my son in law's iron head. Used .125 steel plate. Same frame spacing as the chrome moly frame. Corresponding engine holes appear to measure the same with a vernier caliper as well.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA260061.jpg)
Measured distance from lower front mount hole to rear evo mount 15-1/8.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA260060.jpg)
Marked the frame. I can shorten the front mounts and relocate the engine forward as an option. Not sure yet.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA260063.jpg)
Rear mount measures 9% incline from vertical. The diagonal brace tube that runs under the engine will interfere with the sump on the evo. I will have to cut it out and review other bracing options. Not sure if it is even needed as this is not a drag bike. Spoke with Dan Dunn (NRHS). Aaron Wilson runs a similar frame which didn't have the brace. I believe it was made for an evo motor. He went 169 at Bub's. I can cut the entire rear mount arrangement off and fab up a new one or chop this one and adapt to the evo.
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA260068.jpg)
I lined the front mount hole on the engine with the hole in the mount plate. Transfered the dims to the frame. Leveled everything up and the measurements appear perfect. I will kick everything around before I make any cuts. There are a bunch of options but I am of a mind to keep it simple, get it together and then play later.
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The good news. I fab'd up the rear mount out of .250" steel and test fit the evo engine. The engine sits in the center of the frame exactly where Willie says the c/g of the engine is located. 5/8" to the cam side of the case seam.
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55 i think i said 1/2 in---but 5/8 is fine --on some bikes with a wide tire kit i have moved the transmission and primary and all contents as much as 2 in to the left without any handling effects --ive also ridden my road king with more weight in one saddlebag than the other and couldnt tell the differance--when you finish the bike if it worries you put a level on the rear disc -see which way the bike trys to fall and add a little weight on the opposite side ---or put a sidecar on it LOL willie buchta
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Or you can put the NEW real powerfull Buell engine in the frame and go real fast...................
Can you tell I am somewhat of a Rotax engine fan........but it does take one out of the "pushrod class"...............................................................................
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One step at a time. I want to have the bike ready for Maxton first of April. Motor work is done and I am using a donor Buell S1 so I should have a rough bike ready by then. How pretty it will be is remains to be seen.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA280072.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA280070.jpg)
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i like the way you did the rear mount using the stock rear motor mount--less chance of problems willie buchta
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I will add a gusset across the top so both sides match. Now I can see that the engine is closer to center then I initially thought. It looks like the mentioned 1/2" is right on.
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paul batts may of went 159 mph on a buell---i guarantee he didnt do it with a bone stock motor --ive owned to many of them to believe that ---the fastest one i owned would go 131 mph on a good day at sea level--i got a ticket on that one for 119 mph in a 65 mph zone---the record at bonneville in the PPP 1350 cc class is 152.338 mph and thats a 1350 not a 1200 ----willie dpombatmir buchta
Willie... I'm looking forward to what exactly your "guarantee" includes?
With the exception of the ignition and the pipes, I'll not only gaurantee he did it on a bone stock motor (including clutch, stock carb and rocker boxes never been removed), but am also willing to put my money, my reputation and my proof on that guarantee. With that in mind, what is it you'd like to offer up with such a strong statement you made there (don't ask for the proof unless you want to offer the other two items up in return).
You having "too many of them to believe it", only means you couldn't do it... nothing more.
Study the bike and the man - before you judge the feat,
Todd
PS: the P/PP-1350 record at Maxton is over 158mph... neither of which have any relativity to their modified class records.
Joe, sorry to sheet on your thread with relative facts... you've done awesome things in the 1000cc class and i'm looking forward to the same from you in the 1350 class as well. Missed you in Maxton this meet. And I'm guessing you no longer need the items we discussed earlier?
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Todd,
I need the front mounts ... Joe
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im not offering anything----just stating a fact --no "bone stock" stock motored buell (2001 and older )will go 159 mph unless you drove it off a cliff or on a dyno or had a 20 mph tail wind----willie buchta
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im not offering anything----just stating a fact --no "bone stock" stock motored buell (2001 and older )will go 159 mph unless you drove it off a cliff or on a dyno or had a 20 mph tail wind----willie buchta
Glad you weren't there to tell him he couldn't do it before he did it Willie.
I've got early and late ones on hand Joe... (late change was E'84 I believe). Let me know which and I'll get them out,
Todd
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tod--i would of liked nothing better than to have seen it---i went back and reread all of the posts on this subject---it would be possible to go that fast with a 1200 buell in the right frame in a partial streamline class but a stock buell with a pipe and ignition will not go 159 mph willie buchta
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tod--i would of liked nothing better than to have seen it---i went back and reread all of the posts on this subject---it would be possible to go that fast with a 1200 buell in the right frame in a partial streamline class but a stock buell with a pipe and ignition will not go 159 mph willie buchta
Agreed Willie :cheers:, although in this case it is a bone stock frame as well :-D
Here's the pic without the fairing.. it did 157 like this:
(http://battsracing.com/Images/Paul%20Launches%206_03.jpg)
Here's the faired version, but the bike was in the above config when it was installed and ran 159:
(http://battsracing.com/Images/PB%20Maxton%20Sept%202002.jpg)
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sorry to waste your space joe with such dribble my fault --i owe you one willie buchta
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successful land speed racing requires passion ... both you and Todd certainly have that ... and both are very successful ... Joe
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ya think.?....
OK I may Not Love You,but you are Pretty Smart :wink:! Got anything Free I can Race :oops:?
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Scott has all the spare race bikes. I am down to one ready and one in work ... JD
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OK I may Not Love You like I love myself ,but you are a Pretty fart smeller :wink:! Got anything Free I can Race :oops:?
Kaz,
I fixed it for you.. :mrgreen:
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Scott has all the spare race bikes. I am down to one ready and one in work ... JD
My Buell is only getting one more pass this year......the motor needs gone through. I am getting the Busa ready and plan on making 2-3 passes on it at the November meet.
Scott
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OK I may Not Love You like I love myself ,but you are a Pretty fart smeller :wink:! Got anything Free I can Race :oops:?
Kaz,
I fixed it for you.. :mrgreen:
Thanks :roll:
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OK I may Not Love You like I love myself ,but you are a Pretty fart smeller :wink:! Got anything Free I can Race :oops:?
Kaz,
I fixed it for you.. :mrgreen:
Kaz,
The good news is that you now have 6 months to get your bike ready..find any cases yet?
J
Thanks :roll:
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Thank's Worlds Fastest,
NOW IF I CAN JUST KEEP MY NOSE ABOVE WATER TILL THEN :wink:
How does 1 V-rod Racer get a Sponsor since Visa and Master Charge are no longer supporting me :wink:!
Heck I even have a Dream Bike Deal {A PROVEN 250+MPH Machine} I want to buy/trade for my STI,but not sure it will happen. :?
I now need a new set of cases for the V-rod so it will be awhile till it's back together again :cry:!
Anyone know MV Augusta's # or address?
I think I'm gonna have to start sending out Resumes :-o
Kaz.................
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB020113.jpg)
Intake S1W head
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB020112.jpg)
Exhaust S1W head
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB020109.jpg)
Chamber S1W head
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Joe - That looks like Dan's work.........30 degree squish band as well? You send them back to him and have him dual plug them to.
Scott
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB020114.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB020117.jpg)
I had to cut the diagonal frame brace shorter. It interferred with the crankcase sump on the evo motor. I put in a cross brace and doubled back the cut off tube. Allows me to maintain some diagonal bracing integrity. I may add a pan in the front under the crankcase. Not sure if it is overkill or not.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB020122.jpg)
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I might just do that ... That center plug is tough to change without striping the threads ... I guess I could do it on the Bridgeport at work ... Have to think about that one.
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB020116.jpg)
I opened the axle slots to 25mm. I noticed that the axle adjuster won't go to full travel rearward. The S1 swingarm does the same thing.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB020121.jpg)
To solve the problem I added 5/8" to the 1x2 tubing.
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I might just do that ... That center plug is tough to change without striping the threads ... I guess I could do it on the Bridgeport at work ... Have to think about that one.
Yep, both of mine needed re-tapped.........I will probably put Time-Serts in both of them after the season.
Scott
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I know... I read your thread ... One of the reasons that I didnt do it right off.
Joe
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB030118-1.jpg)
I had some machined swingarm caps ... look a lot better then the cast pieces.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB030119.jpg)
Axle is turned down to 25mm (.982) matching the stock Buell S1 diameter
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB030117.jpg)
Axle and spacers came out perfect. Wheel is dead center in the frame.
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Looking good Joe, and those mounts are on the way.
Todd
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joe use big and thick washers between the axel nuts and swingarm and large dia. spacers on the inside --it keeps everything from smashing the swingarm in on the adjusters --ive seen it happen a lot ---looking good ----------------------------------- willie buchta
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB060005.jpg)
The frame braces are all welded in.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB060007.jpg)
Set up the engine in the frame. Leveled and plummed them to ensure good alignment. Drive sprocket is aligned with rear wheel sprocket. I should tack it all up but I will wait until I get the front end on and everything is even and on the same track. A good friend is making me a sleeve adapter to accept standard Buell bearings and races in the steering neck. Should have it early next week.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB060009.jpg)
Not a lot of overhead clearance. Well, lower profile will cut a smaller hole through the air.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB060011.jpg)
Hope I can get the heads off in the frame to certify a new record. I guess that is a problem I want to have.
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Joe - There looks to be plenty if clearance.....my rear head is much closer than that and I do not have any problems getting it on and off, put that rear center spark plug in is another story.
Scott
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you have plenty of room to get the front head off (the one you will have to pull if you break a record ) you can go to the later model rocker boxes they are 2 piece instead of 3 piece ---less gaskets ---drill the heads for duel plugs--if you put the plug on a piece of fuel line hose they are easy to start and get off -if you run duell plugs you can retard the ignition some--if you need a set of 2 piece rockers i have an extra set with breathers ---one of the reasons for running the stock rear mount is you can take the front mount bolts out loosen up the rear mount bolts the engine will tilt forward and you can remove the rockers if you have a space problem ---i dont think you will have to do that-----willie buchta
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p m sent willie buchta
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Engine is in the frame ... rear mount is tacked ... engine is parallel to the rails .
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB090004.jpg)
It looks like I will need a 1/2" spacer under the sprocket. Everything is lined up square and plumb.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB090005.jpg)
I fab'd up a battery box out of steel. Fits stock Buell battery.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB090006.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB090007.jpg)
I was planning on putting the battery in front of the rear tire. Now I am sure. I may hang it off the front of the frame in front of the engine.
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Joe - Looks good, I believe PBI makes a counter shaft sprocket that moves the chain closer to the trans.
Scott
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Willie --
What makes you think they always check the front cylinder?
(Could be a reason for that vibration!)
Stan
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55chever 209-6816876 willieworld@hotmail.com willie buchta
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Willie .... PM sent
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I reviewed every option relating to an oil tank and the best design option seems to be inside the rear hoop in front of the tire. No one makes anything that looks like it will work so I will have to make it myself. I don't want use aluminum in the an area that I could run over something on the course and possibly hole the tank near the rear tire. I had some 10 gauge sheet steel that is a little heavy but the weight will go in the right area and it is tough. I fab'd up a cardboard template and filled it with styrofoam peanuts to determine volume. Approximately 4 quarts which is more then enough for an XL engine.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB110005.jpg)
I allowed for an inch and a half of clearance from the tire in full forward position. There is an additional 2 inchs of chain adjustment available aft.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB110004.jpg)
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I tacked the tank together with the mig. I will get my son who is a much better welder then I am to tig it up over the weekend.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB110007.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB110008.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB110011-1.jpg)
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.
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The oil tank will be solid mounted. The oil tank on the XB is half the gas/oil tank and it was mounted solid without any issues. I am more concerned about the battery. I will rubber mount the battery using Harley isolators ...
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The oil tank will be solid mounted. The oil tank on the XB is half the gas/oil tank and it was mounted solid without any issues.
The motor on the XB was probably rubber mounted as to where this one will not be..........I broke a lot of parts this year.
Scott
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.
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..... In addition, vibration at speed will froth the oil in the tank.
Or will it help the air bubbles get to the top :? Little bubbles have quite the uphill fight to get through 50w... :|
Either way, keep at it, only 268 working days to Bonneville.... leaving you with pack and travel time for inspection... 8-)
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The neck insert is complete ... I had to draw it in using 3/4 all thread and a breaker bar ... It was made in 2 pieces. Top half and bottom half.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB150014.jpg)
The bottom half was made flush and the top half is about an inch proud to get the front end as low as possible. The frame was made for a car tire and with a bike tire the rear is already low.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB150015.jpg)
the rear of the frame is 3" off the deck ant the front of the frame is about 3/4" higher. Once the engine weight and rider weight are added it will come down some but I will have to add straps or cut the springs to level it out.
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB280044.jpg)
Fuel tank ... pretty easy to see why I waited for my son to do the welding instead of doing it myself.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB280046.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB280037.jpg)
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Oil tank ...
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB280037.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB280043.jpg)
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first photo last post was of fuel tank ... should have been this photo
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB280039.jpg)
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Frame Braces
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB300063.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB300066.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB300055.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB300067.jpg)
I will start on the rear section tonight.
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Got the fuel tank mounted ... I took Scott's advice and rubber mounted it ... I will do the same with the oil tank ... JD
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Got the fuel tank mounted ... I took Scott's advice and rubber mounted it ... I will do the same with the oil tank ... JD
No pictures.... :x
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I was busy all week and didn't get a chance to work on the bike until today. Having a job really gets in the way of building a race bike. A good friend happens to be a machinist and he made me 5/16 blind bungs to use for vibration isolation mounts. I bought the tank mounts for the oil and fuel tank from the Bung King.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200041.jpg)
mounting tabs welded on frame
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200049.jpg)
rubbers installed
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200048.jpg)
tank bungs welded in
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200050.jpg)
fuel tank installed in frame
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200055.jpg)
blind bungs in the oil tank bottom
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200058.jpg)
cross tube added to rest oil tank on
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200059.jpg)
welding bungs in oil tank bottom
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200063.jpg)
oil tank in place
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200065.jpg)
viewed from the side
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200067.jpg)
front view
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Wow! Like the mounting tabs. And even better is the fitment of the oil tank! :cheers: Great work.
Geo
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Good idea Joe to use stock rubber tank mounts...........why didn't I think of that??
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Joe nice work willie buchta
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Scott - I used the rubber mounts because of the problems you had with vibration cracking motor mounts.
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I was reading about your sprockets, etc for the rear chain. On our Pro Stock Sportster based dragbike, we had a "bottle gear" for the rear. It was a sprocket on a piece of thickwall Chromoly so the spline for the tranny was one one end and the sprocket on the other. THen we had a 3/4" thick aluminum plate on solid 1" aluminum stanchions that spaced the plate out to the right level to get past the car tire. THe opening in the bottle gear tube on the sprocket end housed a big thick bearing to support the far end of the bottle gear. We would launch this at about 8,000 rpm, shift at 9,000+. I made damn sure the rear axle was in line with the rear of the frame to the 001" so it would always launch straight. I machined the rear parts/pieces so it was all straight and true so all measurements were correct. We used stock Sporty oil pump for a year and then my partner (he was the rider and the $$)got sucked into a dry sump system and it was a comedy of errors for the eight horsepower it was supposed to be good for. I safety wired EVERYTHING! It took a while to put together but we never had anything come loose. Looks like from your pics you are taking your time, doing a great job. Make sure if you have to change sprockets for a different ratio you will still have room between tire and oil tank. Will the tire grow? We had batteries, oil and fuel and fuel pump all in front of motor down low. Built a fairing from aluminum first then carbon to cover all this and give good aero chracteristics. It looked like a Busa kind of from the front with fairing in place. Friday in snowy Ohio
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FriD,
I would appreciate any photos that you have ... I will probably have to locate the battery up front ... Joe
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FriD,
On the 1000cc bike I had the tire positioned about an inch off the rear monoshock mount and it never touched. Same tire/wheel size, so that should not be an issue. I made the oil tank out of 11 gauge just in case it rubs. There is 1-1/4 clearance with the wheel pushed full forward in the axle guides. I anticipate that it will be set somewhere near an 1-1/2+ when the chain is installed and tensioned. I will have the bike ready for Maxton in April but it might be naked. I am anticipating using Kent's Charlie Toy fairing in front and the rear is anybody's guess right now.
Joe
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We used 18 volt DC Milwaukee batteries. One for the fuel pump and data logger and the other just the ignition system. Each had a slide on base so it was a breeze to change during turnaround-sometimes very short when they juggle classes so Top Fuel gets to show off. I can't remember who made the slide-on bases but they were very slick. We had four batteries one set always on charge. Each battery's voltage was data logged for the entire time the motor was running so if there was a problem it would be easier to pinpoint-low voltage can masquerade as a number of problems. Don't think I have many pics but I will look. Lead acid batteries don't like a Harley's vibration and AGM batteries don't either. We never had a failure in 150+ runs on the track and many on the dyno with the 18 volt Milwaukee batteries. If something will fall off or fail from vibration it will on a dynomometer! Are you planning to run a starter? I think my x-race partner has the starter box for sale I built-it goes right on the crankshaft bolt that holds the front primary sprocket on. Two 1000 cold crank amp batteries, 24 volt M-42 diesel starter, 3 to 1 gear reduction so it will spin a while with 17 to 1 compression. OK I am leaving for NY State but will look at my email when I get back on Friday 16th.
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I will try and use a heavy duty Harley starter with a contact solenoid. I don't know how well this is going to work with a 13 to 1 compression 80 cu in motor.
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Have you thought about compression releases? I'm having my heads machined for them just in case. You can always plug the holes. Just another 2c
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some heads will accept 2 comp. releases.
franey
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I have considered them ... Aaron Wilson starts his 90 inch S&S engine with a heavy duty starter although he has had a few crap out on him ... I will try to go without compression release initially and see how it goes ... on the fueler I always used rollers but it was a pain in the a-s.
Joe
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I have considered them ... Aaron Wilson starts his 90 inch S&S engine with a heavy duty starter although he has had a few crap out on him ... I will try to go without compression release initially and see how it goes ... on the fueler I always used rollers but it was a pain in the a-s.
Joe
Joe,
FWIW, I have been using the stock starter on my Buell from the very get go. I believe the compression is somewhere of the neighborhood of 13.5-1 and I have never had any trouble at all starting the bike, not once. I have been using a Big Boar (BB)battery for the bike since day one as well, these batteries are bullet proof! I had a long and low rigid chopper a few years back that had a 113" motor in it with compression releases and I think that bike ate every battery I ever put in it until I went with the BB. I have left the iginition on and drained it completely, after recharging it was good as new, it has been subjected to about 30 + dyno passes, 8-10 passes at El Mirage and 5 passes at Bonneville, I have accidently drilled a hole into it and it just keeps on ticking! This is the second BB battery I have owned and I will never buy another brand for a rigid Harley. Rchop can back me on all the problems I had with batteries and how the BB solved them.
Scott
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Scott,
I am using the stock starter in 60 cu in bike with 13 to 1 and it is fine ... I will go with your suggestion on the battery and see what happens. I am going to build a set of rollers just in case. Can't hurt and someone may need them at a meet.
Joe
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This summer we put an S&S 124 engine in a street Harley Fatboy. They come with 2 electronic compression releases on them. It starts right up with a stock starter & battery and has been trouble free so far. Maybe something like that might work, just thought id mention it. When you turn the igntion on you can hear them click on.
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Joe,
The only time we killed starters on the 100" bike was when we were starting it on a 50/50 Nitro blend. Once we put the second tank on it so we could start it on pure methanol we have had no problems. Our 1350 cc bikes have zero starter issues.
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I will have to agree with Scott, I had a Big Boar battery in my last LSR bike and will haveone in the new one. No troubles at all.
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Feeling a bit better tonight ... I can get around the garage a little ... It is good to have a friend that owns a machine shop and likes racing ... my friend John was looking a damper mount that I had on the 1000cc bike and he asked if I needed one for the new bike ... I was going to buy 2 from Storz as I plan on using 2 dampers ... he insisted on making them ...
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P1130067.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P1130068.jpg)
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He also made me a sprocket spacer and in typical fashion he insisted on adding the shoulder the the center hole rests on ...
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P1130075.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P1130074.jpg)
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P2010079.jpg)
Finally recovered from the recent unpleasantness and I am able to work in the shop. Roughing out the seat pan.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P2010080.jpg)
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P2070084.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P2070083.jpg)
Today I plan on setting up the rear sets ... I picked up a really nice set from an R6 Yamaha made by Attack ... Just can't get them to fit without chopping the hell out of them ... I would rather fab up my own and sell the R6's ... shame they are really well made.
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P2150092.jpg)
Shifter side foot peg
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P2150088.jpg)
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Looking good Joe, you gonna be ready in 6 weeks?
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I may have to take a week off from work ... I will be ready mechanically ... no fairings and may not be painted pretty but I will make a pass in April.
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I keep running into unexpected delays, imagine that :roll:. I'm not gonna be ready, but I'm going anyway. I'll probably help with tech inspection.
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140100.jpg)
I decided to use a Morse cable to shift the bike ...
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140099.jpg)
Rear peg shifter side
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140097.jpg)
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Great idea Joe, I may have to use one of those myself . On my last bike my shifter linkage rod was almost 3 ft long :-o
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McMaster Carr ( http://www.mcmaster.com/# )... has all lengths ... Joe
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I'm a big fan of McMaster Carr. Since I have moved to Southern Illinois, I can order online on Monday and UPS brings it to my door on Tuesday!
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i have never had any luck shifting with a single morse cable...always wound up switching to air or mechanical linkage.... Harley's typical have shifting problems anyhow, man i think your gonna have some...
Kent
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The XL shifter pawl mechanism is awfully sloppy even when new ... Once I switched over to GP pattern it worked a lot better ... It appears that it requires a lot of force to overcome the slop ... Joe
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3150108.jpg)
Fork stop set up ... tab is welded to frame ... stops welded to aluminum plate that I will drill and tap to bottom fork tree.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3150107.jpg)
Bolt on the stainless plate to the tab which limits travel to 15 degrees. I can adjust it with a different plate or remove it to manuever the bike around the shop and load it.
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140100.jpg)
I decided to use a Morse cable to shift the bike ...
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140099.jpg)
Rear peg shifter side
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140097.jpg)
my first yr. i ran similar pedal w/rod linkage; had trouble downshifting.
last yr. i added a 3"
extension off the pivot area of pedal; clocked about 35 degrees to the rear. that, w/ another shifter peg allowed me to 'heel'
downshift after runs to clear course easier.
franey
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3150108.jpg)
Fork stop set up ... tab is welded to frame ... stops welded to aluminum plate that I will drill and tap to bottom fork tree.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3150107.jpg)
Bolt on the stainless plate to the tab which limits travel to 15 degrees. I can adjust it with a different plate or remove it to manuever the bike around the shop and load it.
So Thats the Easy way to do it?
Seems great if I can borrow a couple ideas?
Mr Noonan did teach me a couple good safety mods and thats about the Best in-expensive Head shake Limiter posssible? :cheers:
Great work thanks,
Kaz :mrgreen:......
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Kaz, did u just blow your witness protection cover by posting?
Would any of us recognize you if we saw u at the bar?
FREUD
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I would willie buchta
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Ask to see his tattoos.
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Kaz, did u just blow your witness protection cover by posting?
Would any of us recognize you if we saw u at the bar?
FREUD
Dang It you got me Doc :wink:!
I'll work on my new disguise,and try 2 be A little more incognito 8-)
Ya Big Jon,
all those Tatts and Body Piercing don't cover up very well ,
and Ditto to You ya Big STUD!:evil:
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA120121.jpg)
update photo ... frame in paint ... Hammerite
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA120123.jpg)
rear wheel assembled
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PA120119.jpg)
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looks good willie buchta
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more picts :? :-D
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Will post some later in the week ... the damn job keeps getting in the way of racing and building ...
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The XL shifter pawl mechanism is awfully sloppy even when new ... Once I switched over to GP pattern it worked a lot better ... It appears that it requires a lot of force to overcome the slop ... Joe
Looking forward to the new pics! I had a ton of shifting problems with mine Joe. I changed the detent plate and all of the springs and it helped. I think the stock part is number XXXX and mine is XXXXA.....the A being the recalled or upgrade detent plate. The new ones are shaped in more of a triangle configuration than rounded like the stock plate.
Scott
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140100.jpg)
I decided to use a Morse cable to shift the bike ...
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140099.jpg)
Rear peg shifter side
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140097.jpg)
I used a solid 5/16 stainless rod with rose joints at each end and an old ring spanner mid way as a guide and it works fine if you have probs with the cable arrangment
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll140/oz110364/Image0049.jpg)
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll140/oz110364/Image0050.jpg)
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll140/oz110364/Image0048.jpg)
its about 3 foot long
Cheers Oz
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Does anyone backcut the transmission gears to make shifting easier? I know a guy we used to use in Philly who is THE foremost Sportster authority on the planet. He can do backcutting. I have an electric shift setup from Dale Walker/Holeshot for sale. $75 Friday
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Also it looks like with the front end being way out front and you and the motor being way back that your center of gravity is going to be close to or behind your center of pressure..............something you should look into for stability purposes?? Hopefully someone with more experience on the subject will chime in.........
Scott
Scott - -
Back in October in the Build Diary you spoke the term "center of pressure."
I haven't heard of that term before and I'd like to know for a future build. Could you or someone explain that to me. Thanks.
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Winter is upon us in the Northeast and I have been distracted off the project by the damn job ... too many hours and no time for build ... have plans to get into finishing the build starting this weekend ... all good here and the ground is now clear of snow on Long Island ...
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I just read this thread - great project and excellent work Joe. :cheers:
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/P3140100.jpg)
I decided to use a Morse cable to shift the bike ...
thats a slick setup.
can you downshift w/ a morse cable set up like that?
franey
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it works well statically ... not sure when the engine is running ... I dont use downshifting to slow down at Bonneville or Maxton ... the Sportster / Buell cam drive key design is a bit fragile when it gets drag load ...
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ok, thanks. i need to be in 1st gear to get off salt
@ 20-40 mph.
overall gearing is to high and would be lugging engine.
franey
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The bike is finally finished .... test drove it front of the house and discovered that it is definitely designed to go straight. Got to the corner and it wouldnt turn. I had to shut it down and walk it around. Also the lay down position doesnt do much for your feet as out riggers ...
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just rolled it out of the garage
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Looks great Joe!
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Can't wait to see it at Maxton Joe :cheers:
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After my test ride it looks like the only way to turn this thing is to shut it off and do a 3 point turn ... the turn around from pre-stage at Maxton will be an adventure ... slow and sure is going to be the rule ...
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Joe, all you'll need to do is follow me when I'm riding the "Icebreaker" bike. As I get to staging I simply make a 270 degree turn -- about 100 feet in diameter, using most of the pad at the end of the crossing runway. REALLY SLOW -- and even then I now and then have to put a foot down 'cause I've tried turning too sharp. Practice, practice -- and I know exactly what you mean about the three-point turns.
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Slim,
I will follow you ... the sweeping wrong way turn you do will work ... Once you realize that it won't turn (which isnt really a bad thing in land speed racing) you just have to plan your turns ... I was unpleasantly surprised at the corner in front of the house but it was similar to the drag bike I ran years ago. Same ugly turning radius plus I had to fight the steering dampers at low speed (which wouldnt be a bad thing at high speed) ...
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Joe, I've got a Scott's damper -- easy to reach from the riding position. So I make sure I "tighten" it while I'm in the staging lines and loosen it again when I'm slowing, in shutdown. As for the thing about forgetting how little it'll turn -- maybe you don't remember a few years ago when I was at the fuel truck and departed, planning on doing a 180 and going to the pit. I wanted to turn way tighter than the bike would allow -- and that's when I dumped it at about 1 mph on the pit road. I still haven't lived that one down.
At Bonneville there's nary a problem - partly 'cause the bike is on the transporter trailer most of the time, and the rest of the time it's got about a quarter-mile to make the 180 from the course to the return road. There I'm not bothered by the 15-degree-max. rule. At ECTA events -- unh, different story. . .
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I will be able to get off the course at the big end at Maxton without a problem .... The way I did it at Atco on the drag bike ... engine off ... clutch in ... sweeping arc ...
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Can't wait to see it at Maxton Joe :cheers:
x2
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went over the bike very carefully ... torqued all the bolts and drilled a bunch for safety wire ... not very comfortable riding position so I raised the clip ons up higher for shorter reach ...regeared based on discussion on what Scott used at ElMo ... I will rework the trailer for the longer wheel base ... this machine is ready
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Good luck Joe! Give me a call when you want to talk about making that triple tree.
Scott
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Just finished the trailer for Bonneville ... bike rolls on and off easily
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Almost looks like one of Willie's side hack jobs ... Recap of Maxton in June, bike handled really well. Rigid frame was a non-event. Felt the big bump at 3/4 mile but I did with the coil over swingarm 60 cu in bike also. Low speed handling was not as bad as anticipated. Used Slim's method of sweeping 270 turns instead of tight 90's and it worked like a charm. Down stairs power was twice what the 60 cu in motor had but it fell on its face at the big end. Only would go 147. Consensus of opinion is that I am under carb'd. I ran an S&S 'G'. Same as I did on the 60 cu in bike. Moving up to an S&S 'D' for Loring.
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Interesting development. AMA changed the rules for open class bikes. Seems that the square metal can I use for s seat and fender might offer some aero advantage? Soooo, I changed over to an old school chopper fender and no seat ... just a bar.
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New seating position is actually more comfortable then with the tin box.
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New seating position is actually more comfortable then with the tin box.
And it looks better as well! Nice job Joe!
Talk to Dan at NHRS about the S&S D he worked mine over and installed a thunder jet for mine.
Give me a call when you are ready to talk triple trees, I am just about ready.
Scott
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Looks good Joe, make sure the front fender fits their rules too, I know Scott had to cut his up quite a bit.
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55 bike looks great --i like the new fender better ----put a safety chain on the trailer --trust me on that one willie buchta
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Great looking bike, I can't wait to see it in person at SpeedWeek. :cheers:
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Got the rear fender done ... definately no aero advantage now ...
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Had to improvise for the tach mount ... I had a Buell S1 tach and a cup from from a late twin cam that I had to make fit ... this bike eats tachs ... I have a Speedway digital tach also that I will add. Not sure how easy that will be to read at speed. Between them I should be okay. Started the bike with the S&S Super D alcohol carburetor and it sounds strong. VP methanol is cheaper then racing gas.
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Joe the new fender looks good and it looks like it belongs there. Did the air cleaner show up?
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Look carefully at the carburetor and you will see it installed on the bike ... thank you .... came Thursday.
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Look carefully at the carburetor and you will see it installed on the bike ... thank you .... came Thursday.
No shit, I guess I should pay attention. I didn't hear anything bad so no news is good news.
Joe I am getting my machine this week so we can start on a triple tree if you are still interested.
Scott
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I texted you that I got it day it arrived ... will talk next week about the trees.
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I must of missed your text.
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Video of the starting line LTA
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/th_Loring_2010_Slat_Photos_052.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/?action=view¤t=Loring_2010_Slat_Photos_052.mp4)
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Ok, now we need one with the motor at full revs leaving the line!
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Okay Scott ....
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/th_Loring_2010_Slat_Photos_054.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/?action=view¤t=Loring_2010_Slat_Photos_054.mp4)
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Thanks you sir! Love the sound of a HD at full throttle!
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Got the S1W engine out (1350 cc) and started designing install of the XB9 engine out of the old 9216 bike. My top hand, my son Joe and I came up with a mounting system that will allow me to swap back to a Sportster mount design at will. Doesnt look promising for Bub's but I will be ready for the fall ECTA and LTA events.
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keep us posted.... daily.
franey
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/XBMount4.jpg)
front mount ... it drops over the frame lugs on where the side plates bolt on an XL or S1
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/XBMount2.jpg)
rear mount ... bolts to 4 mounting bolts on the frame and the 4 holes where the rear rubber mount went
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/XBMount3.jpg)
rear in place
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/XBMount1.jpg)
front on the bench ...
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/IMG00144-20110927-22001.jpg)
Frame rail modification to allow stock primary adjuster to fit through frame.
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Joe, I don't know exactly where the access area you made in the frame is located, but if it's in an area that sees much stress I'd be tempted to weld a flange on the flat plate both on the inside and along the long straight edge.
Looking forward to seeing the finished piece!
Pete
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/Chapman3.jpg)
The engine is rigidly mounted and contributes to the structural integrity. I was going to make the loop continuous but the oil pan interferes. I added the cross brace when I did the first configuration build. By welding the tube and gusset in place before the piece was cut kept everything in alignment.
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Wouldn't a piece of tubing in that gap allow the space you need and be far stronger?
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Looks good Joe with the engine adding to the stability. Just keep an eye on it.
Unless the tubing was really heavy wall it wouldn't add as much strength as is there now unless it was gusseted as well. Why is it that no matter what you're attempting to do clearance always seems to get in the way?
Pete
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Tubing+gusseting is what I meant.
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I considered putting a piece of 2 inch heavy wall tubing in there vertically. the adjuster would pass through it. My son worked as a fabricator in a Charlotte Nascar shop back in the late nineties and he thought just the outside half donut was enough because the engine is rigidly mounted ... I added the gusset plate which he said is overkill but welded it up to make me happy.
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I like your attitude. I sometimes get action for being overly careful when it comes to safety but I've seen the results up close when things aren't done properly. I'll continue to err on the side of safety.
The other thing to remember is that it's usually easier to do something right the first time than to cut it out and do it over once everything else is in place.
Keep thrashin' on her Joe! :-D :-D :-D
Pete
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Well brought the new bike out to Maxton for the last meet and there was strong head winds ... not likely I was going to advance my record with a 15 mph headwind so I wrenched on my nephew's bike ... It is fresh and ready for next year ...
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/374841_10150335759757163_732432162_8637168_1077613431_n.jpg)
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have you got a close up pic of the fuel tank on the bike
sitting on the left ?
what is the capacity?
bf
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200050.jpg)
This is the tank mounts ... H-D oil tank grommets
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200049.jpg)
I welded the mounts on the two diagonal braces that go from top rails to bottom rails
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PB280037.jpg)
Tank holds 1-1/4 gallons ... each run on Bonneville short course used about 1/4 gallon.
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thanks, joe.
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(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200048.jpg)
This is the bottom of the tank ... 4 bungs 5/16" ...
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/55chevr/PC200041.jpg)
Photo of the frame mounts
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Did you use a sealant or coating on the inside of the fuel tank?
We are building a fuel tank for our bike and wondering if we need a sealant in it.
A Friend used a tank sealant in a car he was restoring and some of it came loose creating quite a mess, so I'm a little leery about it.
Thanks, Don
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I always use the POR tank sealant kit on gas and oil tanks ... it is comprised of a cleaner, an etching prep and a sealer coating. The sealer is very thin and you can't see it once dry ... I have used it at least 4 times and never a problem
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I always use the POR tank sealant kit on gas and oil tanks ... it is comprised of a cleaner, an etching prep and a sealer coating. The sealer is very thin and you can't see it once dry ... I have used it at least 4 times and never a problem
Do you know if it is compatible with aluminum?
Thanks, Don
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yes it is compatible ... Sit up bike 9216 gas / oil tank is aluminum ... worked well ... still have it after 4 years there are no problems.
Joe
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My son Gus will try building the tank from aluminum first and if that fails he will use steel.
He is 15 and self taught with Tig.
Thanks for the info, Don
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I made a tank out of aluminum and it was a pain in the ass ... from then on I made them out of steel just for the ease of construction. Weight difference is laughable on a land speed bike ...
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I tried the Por 15 sealant in the aluminum tank on my little modified 28 rpu street roadster and it started to peal after about a year and then what a pain in the a$$. I did the etch and all of the suggested prep before I used it. I was cleaning it out of my fuel filter for a while and finally just cut the top off of the tank and power washed it out, then put a huge screen filter before the fuel pump and cleaned it several times and I am finally running. What a pain!!!!
The trick to aluminum gas tanks is to plan the fabrication such that all of the weld joints that are on the lower sections of the tank can be back welded, i.e. making a "wash pass" along the weld seam from the inside, usually does not require filler rod. If your weld bead has a small shrink hole were you stopped welding it will be a leak. Once you are done fill it with water and mark the leaks, empty, fix the leaks and do it again until you don't have any leaks.
Rex
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One more comment about making tanks, steel or aluminum, if you use .063 aluminum or thin steel you should slightly radius all of the joint edges over a T dolly, I have one that is about 1/2 inch dia and I use it. This makes the joints into butt welds and not a 90 degree edge to edge weld that is very difficult to get a good looking and strong weld. It is also stronger and looks much better. If you make your tank out of heavier material like .100 or 1/8 you can do the 90 degree corner weld pretty easily, still doesn't look as good as a radius butt weld though.
Rex
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Rex /
Like the radius idea ... I will use it ... I think you left the POR in there a little too long ... I keep turning it and dump it out before it gets thick on the walls ...
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How does POR 15 hold up to methanol? Seems some of the sealants were good for gas but not the ethanol / methanol fuels. I found on in the UK called Tapox, but it's not sold in the US.
John
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Their website says it'll handle alcohol just fine. Why not Google por 15 sealant for yourself and get the answers. That's the power of the internet. Take advantage of it.
If you haven't the ambition to research a product that's easy to find how are you going to find the ambition to build a competitive vehicle?
Pete
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Mayabe you believe everything the internet tells you, I don't. My question was to those who may have tried it and what the results were.
If you like it, fine,keep using it.
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I used alcohol with no problems ... never used nitro methane in the tank ..
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I have used POR15, Kreem and Red Kote.
The only one that gave me any issues was Red Kote. And of course it was in the Northren part of New Hampshire, lost at night, on a rigid bike, 500 miles from home. I was able to get a pair of long needle nose in the tank and pull out a almost perfect looking red gas tank liner. That was also the same night I hit a flock of bats......
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John, sorry about the snarky reply last night. I guess I shouldn't go on when I'm tired and a bit owly. Their web site is http://www.por15.com/ and it shows a lot of other products that might be of interest to anyone running on the salt. There's also a Canadian distributor at http://www.canada-por15.com/ for those of us north of the border. That often saves a lot of bureaucratic hassle with shipments from the States. There are times when I wish that border wasn't there or that we could arrange a hassle free border.
Pete
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Pete,
I'm with you on the border issue. I look out my window across the Strait and see Victoria, BC. Use to go there often, not so much now.
John
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I have used many sealers over the years building custom bikes and restoring old bikes. The best one I have found in my experience is from Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm Joe, this is what I used in both tanks on the turbo Buell.
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I am on hold with the ZX10 bike for want of my chief fabricator (Son Joe). He now has 5 kids and between his job and the kids it is hard for him to get over here and work. It can wait until he has time. So I decided to go back to the drag frame for the Bubs meet. The XB9 engine ran okay at Ohio but wouldnt mile an hour. Fell on its face at 134. Has run consistantly over 150. With over 50 runs on it, I am thinking that the engine is tired. It hasnt been opened up since it was built in 2007. Nothing amiss inside except a broken exhaust guide. But it might be time for some overhaul. I sent the heads out to Dan at NRHS for a freshening up and dual plugs. Will do cast iron barrels, new pistons and rings.