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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Cajun Kid on October 13, 2008, 12:55:55 PM

Title: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 13, 2008, 12:55:55 PM
Well I guess I should start my own build post and not Hijack Ligg's or Snap's...
The 53 Studebaker Champion drove into my friend Larry's shop (Rod Crafters in Welcome, NC)   under it's own power. When my new shop is finished (hope about 3 to 4 weeks from now) I will drive her there for the process to begin. First we will take out the Dodge 318 engine and 727 Tranny and do some horse trading with it.

I am in the process of doing some pencil designs of how I want her to look, then the real work will begin in Late November.

Here are a few pics (the before/current pics)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0851.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0850.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0856.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0859.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0861.jpg)
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 13, 2008, 12:58:08 PM
A few more pics

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0863.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0865.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0870.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0872.jpg)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/IMG_0874.jpg)

Well that is enough for now...

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: snap daddy on October 13, 2008, 01:58:54 PM
Charles -
Looks like a nice car to start with, ours is pretty rusty behind the quarters.
HO-LY OFFSET, Batman!  Is that the original rearend, or a 9" from a Town Car?   :wink:
I'm curious as to your powerplant; we thought about doing E with a Buick V6, but you're
using a SBC?  What bore / stroke?  I like it...reminds me of a streamliner i saw in my
November '69 Hot Rod just the other day that used a 180-inch SBC!  Ran 290mph!
Can't remember the name - Summers, maybe?   :wink:
Paul
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Bville701 on October 13, 2008, 02:05:52 PM
Man, all these studes are making me want to start a project with one. Hmmmm, I think there is one for sale as well.

I would love to go after some of those classic coupe records.

Keep the pictures coming!!!

Ryan
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Peter Jack on October 13, 2008, 02:22:53 PM
Charles:

Can't say as I like the present look but it sure looks like it has great potential and the right owner to follow through on the job.

Pete
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: RichFox on October 13, 2008, 03:30:23 PM
Snap; Larsen-Cummins. One of the more famous 'liners.
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 13, 2008, 04:48:09 PM
PJ,
You are right the current look is not "Me"... The last owner was the second owner of the car and he bought it from a widow in 1967.  He did a powertrain  swap in the 70's  using an engine, trans and rear end from a full size Dodge Truck,.. as you see he did not narrow the rear end or even use offset wheles to the inside.. I guess he liked the high rear raked look... The darn thing still cranks and drives.

You can bet the "new look"  will be "set low to really go"  My Vision is the Satin Black paint like my Vicky with the same style lettering in white with red trim...I will not chop it as I want to stay in Classic category..

I will do a full cage with Funny Car set up (if I can get in and out of it) I will change out the side windows and windshield with Lexan.. The rear window is in perfect shape and I may leave it (not sure if can get Lexan to contour like the stock rear glass) I will have Roof Rails installed too.

Well I got to get drawing up some plans,,, hope to have a fun winter getting her done. 

The 36 Roadster show car took 12 months to do, the 33 Vicky was just over 6 months (you saw the build) ,, with the market and my new shop, not sure If I can get this one done before Maxton in April, but Hope for Maxton in June and if all goes well make it to Bonneville in August/Sept 2009. Lorring too I hope.

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 13, 2008, 04:57:23 PM
Snap,  My current "E" motor in fact is a SBC... It was a Chevy  305... it was destroked and now has 255.6 cubic inches and loves to turn up the RPM's and has a power band like a 2 stoke motorcycle engine.  It makes just under 2 HP per Cu. In.   We have found more top end HP, but the lil motor needs more bottom end TQ,  (stroke is under 3.00)

My motor man, knows I can't keep my mouth shut and so he did not give me "every detail" on thie engine (just the bill).. LOL

He did say to duplicate this motor would be $20,000  (something about them 18 degree heads, and some Shaft Rocker System and some crank girdle and some other stuff he did)... Heck, I may sell the motor and go up to C class the motors for that class are easy and cheaper to build...

I can get a  SBC  372   with  700 HP on one carb for just over 1/2 the above price ...

Wish me luck, I will post more pics once we start the tear down and build..

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: snap daddy on October 13, 2008, 05:08:13 PM
Cajun - That's a neat little motor...it's leading a MUCH more glorious life than probably 99% of
the 305's ever produced!  The NHRA Super Stock guys that use 305's come a close second.
Good luck!
And Rich:  Thanks for the info - I feel kinda dumb now after a little more research on Fred Larsen, but
I'm fairly new to this stuff so I'm sure it won't be the last time!  I'd love to watch that 183 on the
dyno!  Or the salt dyno, even better.
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Stan Back on October 13, 2008, 06:38:18 PM
700 HP in C Class probably won't cut it anymore on the salt.
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 13, 2008, 10:13:49 PM
Stan, the 700 HP  was mild for my engine guy. That was with Heads we already have and using one carb and 91 to 93 pump gas...(110 Gt at the track)

Once I take the "E" motor out of the Vicky, she will most likely get the new pump gas  "C" motor just for car shows, cruise in's, nostalgic drag racing and MAXTON..

The "E" motor will then go in the Stude...

The Class Record for  E/CGALT  was 201.xxx  unless it was topped this year at Speed Week.

In your estimation, How much HP would the Stude need to do 205 to 210 on the salt ??
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Sumner on October 13, 2008, 10:16:21 PM
..............

In your estimation, How much HP would the Stude need to do 205 to 210 on the salt ??


We are guessing we had 550 to 600 hp to run over 200 the first year, but no hard facts.  The top was chopped, but the scoop wasn't on then.  See 2004 here.............

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/hooley/hooley-index.html

........... Sum
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 13, 2008, 10:33:16 PM
Sum,  I dont think I can get 600HP out of my lil 255 cu in "E" motor,,,

How in the world did someone set the E/CGALT record at 201.xx??

I wonder what body style and what power plant ?  I may can squeeze 550 HP at the rear wheels out of the lil motor,, but we are at a safe reliable 500 now...

Maybe  the record with this lil motor is a pipe dream ?

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Stainless1 on October 13, 2008, 10:56:37 PM
Caj, safe and reliable is for the street.... on the edge sets LSR records in well established classes...  :wink:
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 13, 2008, 11:03:38 PM
Stainless,  do you know who? What kinda or car and what motor holds the current E/CGALT  Record at Bonneville ?

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: RichFox on October 13, 2008, 11:17:48 PM
Cohn Jucewic Monza. They have been running that car for years at El Mirage and Bonneville and it runs very well indeed.
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 13, 2008, 11:24:40 PM
Thanks Rich,  do you know where I can get a photo of the Monza and also what Kind of motor do they run ?

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Sumner on October 13, 2008, 11:44:49 PM
...............  I may can squeeze 550 HP at the rear wheels out of the lil motor,, but we are at a safe reliable 500 now...Charles

The 550 to 600 HP I'm guessing at was probably crank HP and we averaged 207 in the 3rd mile and I'm guessing we had an exit speed in the 3rd mile of about 219 using the 2 1/4 speed and the average mile speed, so that is a ways over the 201 you are looking for,

Sum
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: 38Chevy454 on October 14, 2008, 12:02:17 AM
Car looks like a good start, not sure about the previous owner's car building skills  :? :-o :roll:

However it seems a good base to build on, certainly more solid and better car to start with than my 55 coupe.  Oh well, just mneans i need to do more work.......
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: RichFox on October 14, 2008, 01:54:02 AM
Thanks Rich,  do you know where I can get a photo of the Monza and also what Kind of motor do they run ?

Charles   Don't know anything about the motor other than SBC
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Wester on October 14, 2008, 02:18:47 AM
Mike Chapman was heavily involved with the motor several years ago.  He traded the motor for his son''s chance to get licensed in the car.  If you don't know about Mike check out Chapman cylinder heads in the Edelbrock catalog a few years back.  Mike is the wizard when it comes to flowing heads.

When Dodge got back into NASCAR racing a few years back they had a get together of the team selected to make the cars go.  The chairman looked around the table and singling out Mike he said "I know everyone else but what are your qualifications to be on this team?"  Mike didn't say a word, just put his hands on the table palm down,  He was wearing an Indy 500 winner's ring and a Daytona 500 winner's ring.  He's also big in offshore boat racing engines.

Chapman also owns the US rights to Carbon-X, the fire suit material that is so very good.  Quiet little guy from Woods Cross, Utah.  His facility had 5 CNC machines going full speed the last time I was there and you could eat off the floor it's so clean.  He can "hear" when a head is flowing right.
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 14, 2008, 09:42:14 AM
Wester,  thanks for the intell !   Looks like my lil  255 SBC  will not be enough ?

Oh well ( we do have a few options )

Thanks again,

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Stan Back on October 14, 2008, 12:43:58 PM
And a Monza is slicker and more stable than the Stude.
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Stan Back on October 14, 2008, 12:49:04 PM
The Bonneville C/CGas Altered record is a ten-year-old soft record at 238 in a Monza.  The engine is now in our Street Roadster and set the record at 199, 201, 206 and finally 210 this year.  Lasted a month until beaten with a 218.

The motor, a little updated from '98, puts out about 700-725.  Not enuf any more.  Big bucks to get any more.

Stan Back
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 14, 2008, 01:06:36 PM
Stan thanks for the info... Yeah I know the Monza'a are cool little cars and a bit slicker through the air than a Stude,,, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I just like the cool look of a slammed Studebaker.. Plus the Satin Black Stude fut well into my Hot Rod era collection... The Monza is a bit to modern for me... 1932 to 1957 is what catches my eye these days ( I know they are not the best race cars in every class, but they make cool hotrods and cool race cars)

I will go back to the drawing board with the "E" motore for the Stude,,, heck if it don't have enough current power for a 200+ run, I can go to USFRA and do the 150 deal, them maybe try TO and see what she can do ??

If we need more power after that,, well we will just get more !!!

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Bob Drury on October 14, 2008, 01:07:39 PM
  Bruce Geisler has driven more miles with more different motors and set more records at Bville with a Stude than anyone else ever will, says a honest 500  horsepower will propel a stock bodied Studebaker 200 mph.
  My 434 cu in Early Olds (1960 394) puts out 700 h.p. and has run 219, as a reference.
  My advice is to not worry about horsepower or records until you have the car built and have learned to drive on the salt.........it ain't like anything else you will ever drive on...............Bob
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 14, 2008, 01:15:41 PM
Bob, that is good advice... I allready have the E motor in my 33 Vicky (#806)..The Stude build will be for racing only (the Vicky is street legal) but I want to stay in CGALT class and stay with the E motor I have... Just trying to set expectations for the car so I don't get to let down my first trip out to the Salt with the car.

Most probable scenario is to do USFRA and get some expericance driving on the salt at 150 to 160... Then if time allows and can re enter as TO maybe see what can do for a full speed baseline... If in fact I am under powered in 2009, well in 2010 we will come back with more power...

"Scottie I need more power"   Capt, I am giving you all she's got and she ain't got no more

Or something to that effect  :cheers:

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Stan Back on October 14, 2008, 02:01:53 PM
Charles --

No reason to enter T.O. at SpeedWeek -- the requirements would be the same as if entering the class you should run under.

So you should build a 200+ car.

Stan
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: RichFox on October 14, 2008, 03:17:04 PM
Agreed. I run my Vega just for grins. This year it ran 155 a couple times. It's a C/CGAlt. Cost the same as TO and it's just better to run in the class your legal for. The only down side is when someone asks what record I'm going for. That's where I had to come up with my own record for an answer.
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Bob Drury on October 14, 2008, 03:56:39 PM
A slight correction, I ran the 219 on Alky with 630 h.p.  The 700 h.p. was on 20% and never made a full pass under power due to a slight oiling problem......... :-D    Bob
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Stan Back on October 14, 2008, 07:06:08 PM
Rich --

That Vega's a record-breaker in my book.

Stan
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: dwarner on October 14, 2008, 07:31:07 PM
The record for E/CGAlt is now 218, set at Speedweek this year.

DW
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 14, 2008, 08:51:38 PM
Dan  ,, wow   218mph with a classic body style  and E motor,,, that is awesome and what I feel may be out of reach for my existing power plant... Guess the only way to know is build the chassis, cage and other safety equipment to meet that speeds tech requirements and beyond, then take it out there and see what she can do....

Thanks for the info...



Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: willieworld on October 14, 2008, 09:48:42 PM
charles--i know that advice is worth what you pay for it BUT---everyone that ive built a car for i give them this advice---spend the money on the chassis---if you spend all the money on the motor  when it blows up then you got a junk chassis and a junk motor---if you spend the money on the chassis and the motor blows up you got a junk motor but you still got that bad ass chassis  ---just some thoughts   willie buchta
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 14, 2008, 10:10:55 PM
willie,,, I agreee  100%,,,, I have the motor already,,, so all the new money will go into a good chassis..

hmm, knowing me,, the paint and body work will come out nioce too !!!  The Stude will have to share space with the Vicky in the new shop.... The Hot Rods will stay in the current shop...

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: 38Chevy454 on October 17, 2008, 07:19:20 PM
So where is the jealous smiley for having the new shop?  I wish I could have a larger shop to work in, guess it will have to wait until I retire and move  :-(
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on October 17, 2008, 09:42:27 PM
The new shop will certainly help, but have a lot of work ahead to get the Stude done by next summer.

Charles
Title: Re: 53 Stude #1806 E/CGALT Build Begins
Post by: Cajun Kid on November 13, 2008, 11:47:14 AM
No work done yet on the Stude, the shop is a week or so behind an aggressive build schedule I set. (yes I am impaitent).

Sheetrock is finished and ceiling is being sprayed as I type this note. The Mon,Tue and Wed before Thanksgiving the floor is scheduled to be diamond polished, Hope to move in the weekend of Thanksgiving. Will post some more pics on the ECTA thread, so to keep this thread for the car build,, (when I get started,, time and $$ is drying up)

Charles