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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: willieworld on June 27, 2008, 06:34:45 PM



Title: speed-o-light
Post by: willieworld on June 27, 2008, 06:34:45 PM
i had some spare time today so i took a spare engine apart and cut the transmission off --ive decided to build a twin engine bike --my friend john bossie has a twin engine knucklehead drag bike that he used to race in the old days the bike is called THE THING his son dave has a twin engine evo drag bike that he is converting to a lakes racer--ive wanted to build a twin engine bike for a long time so here goes ---the first thig i did was cut the trans off of the front engine the rear engine will retain the transmission--the motors are xb9 buell motors 984 cc with a 3.50 bore and a 3.125 stroke the motors are built for buell by harley davidson and they are 02 and newer buell only no its not a sportster motor--any way im not sure what the bike will be other than it will have 2 motors that would put it in the 2000cc pushrod class --the record at boneville in a-pg and a-pf is 169and change --there are no sc-pg or sc-pf records at bonneville in the 2000cc class--any way there a lot of classes to run in --this will be a long term project and will be up and running by the may 09 race at el mirage if all goes well--if anyone has any suggestions they will be much appreciated   thanks  here are a few pics   willie buchta


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: willieworld on June 27, 2008, 06:35:44 PM
some more pics


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: willieworld on June 27, 2008, 06:36:20 PM
two more pics


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: isiahstites on June 27, 2008, 06:47:37 PM
Willie I need to teach you how to do photobucket. You always post great stuff but the picture are a pain sometimes. If you want I can show you and it will only take a few minutes.

I will watch in anticipation to see what you do next. My question is what is your plan for a primary to couple the motors together? Also are you going to run carb or injection? If so what is the plan to sink the two motors together?

Is it true that if you have two motors and both are making 100 hp a piece and you dyno that you will not have 200 hp? Something more along the lines of 175 hp due to the motors being coupled.

Good job Willie - tell Sheri hello and that her records are not to far from happening.

Scott


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: Peter Jack on June 27, 2008, 07:50:35 PM
Willie:

You're having way too much fun and this appears to be another one of those projects. It looks good already.

Pete


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on June 27, 2008, 08:52:19 PM
Worse than him having fun doing something that hasn't been tried very much -- and making it up as he goes along -- and probably going to get a nice batch of records for his troubles ----

Worse still is that he'll probably do it all on a budget that wouldn't buy much more than a few tanks of gas at today's prices. 

Cool idea, Willie, and best of luck.  Thanks for posting your work here on the site -- and think about having Scott show you how to put stuff on photobucket.  It can save you some time as well as hassle.

Regards,


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: bald1 on June 27, 2008, 10:22:47 PM
Eleven months is a long term build?  You're some builder!


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: willieworld on June 27, 2008, 11:40:16 PM
thanks guys although its not much yet i have some ideas--one is to mount the engines in pairs in a rack so that a pair of engines could be swaped out in about an hour --an other is to keep the oil and gas supply and all electrical with the bike and not the motors with quick disconect fitings --all exhaust will stay with the motors--i will chain drive the motors together by unhooking the front motor i could run on the rear motor only in the 1000 cc class hook up the front motor 2000cc class --two 1200 cc motors 3000cc class unhook front one 1350 cc i think the combinations are almost endless then each cc class has 4 classes ( gas -fuel -blown gas-blown fuel) well you get the idea --by next may i will be 64 years old so you can see this will probibly be the last bike i will build for me to race--o these engines come in either 984 cc or 1203 cc the 984 is 3.50 x 3.125 the 1200 is 3.50 x 3.800 all of the parts interchange between the two motors
yes scott i could use a hand with fotobucket
     i havent decided what frame class to run in yet i will have to research the records if anyone has any suggestions i would be more than happy to listen i know i cant think of everything   thanks everyone  willie buchta       not sure about the hp and torque with 2 motors  any one out there know


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: hitz on June 28, 2008, 12:25:36 AM
Willie,

 Yes, you do know how to have fun! It takes a lot of thought to make things simple and clean and you've got the nack.

 I hope you let us know how to synchronize those syncopated engines! Thanks for your time posting.

Scott,

 Hope you put those instuctions for posting pictures somewhere where we all can all see it.

Harv


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: willieworld on June 28, 2008, 12:33:50 AM
harv while you are on the line answer me this --on my computer when i post a pic it comes out about 3 in x 3in  when i double click on it it gets bigger almost full screen but the quality isnt that great is that the way it is for you  thanks  willie buchta


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: John Noonan on June 28, 2008, 12:40:24 AM
thanks guys although its not much yet i have some ideas--one is to mount the engines in pairs in a rack so that a pair of engines could be swaped out in about an hour --an other is to keep the oil and gas supply and all electrical with the bike and not the motors with quick disconect fitings --all exhaust will stay with the motors--i will chain drive the motors together by unhooking the front motor i could run on the rear motor only in the 1000 cc class hook up the front motor 2000cc class --two 1200 cc motors 3000cc class unhook front one 1350 cc i think the combinations are almost endless then each cc class has 4 classes ( gas -fuel -blown gas-blown fuel) well you get the idea --by next may i will be 64 years old so you can see this will probibly be the last bike i will build for me to race--o these engines come in either 984 cc or 1203 cc the 984 is 3.50 x 3.125 the 1200 is 3.50 x 3.800 all of the parts interchange between the two motors
yes scott i could use a hand with fotobucket
     i havent decided what frame class to run in yet i will have to research the records if anyone has any suggestions i would be more than happy to listen i know i cant think of everything   thanks everyone  willie buchta       not sure about the hp and torque with 2 motors  any one out there know

Willie,

PM sent, just an FYI

J


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: hitz on June 28, 2008, 07:19:29 AM
willie, your asking the wrong guy. I haven't even been able to post off of photobucket. I have posted awhile back from my computer but that hasn't worked either lately.

  maybe if you get the kb's up around 150 and 600X400 on the size it will help. Are you posting direct while in preview? Hope someone helps us both.

harv


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: generatorshovel on June 28, 2008, 07:59:37 AM
I like the way your brain works Willie, and the speed at which your hands do what your brain asks of them.
Photobucket is a piece of cake, once you load your photos into it, just right click the mouse on the IMG code (below the pic), and it tells you the code has been copied, then paste it into your message content (another right click)
Tiny


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: isiahstites on June 28, 2008, 08:45:30 AM
Will it is all cut and paste.........here are a few pictures from photobucket. The reason I mentioned photobucket to oyu is because you post a lot of good info in regards to your builds. It would be much easier to read and more beneficial if the pictures just came up like the ones below.


(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/isiahstites/El%20Mirage/100_2779.jpg)


The othere great thing is you can type in between photos so you can describe what is going on in each photo. Willie I will send you my phone number, give me a call this evening and I will walk you through it, i have baby classes all day today so tonight is best. In the meantime sign up on photobucket.com and get an account ready.


(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/isiahstites/El%20Mirage/ElMirage026.jpg)


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: Rex Schimmer on June 28, 2008, 09:16:56 AM
Willie,
AGAIN!! Looks like way to much fun!! Obviously you have done your reasearch on the classes and you should end up with a ton of records!

There have been several discussions on multi motors on the forum but I do think that multi Harleys can have unique challenges. One suggestion would be to run both motors with big flywheels as it will help dampen the torque surges as each of the cylinders fire also allows you to run more agressive cams.

Rex


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: willieworld on July 02, 2008, 01:33:10 AM
ive had time to research the records at bonneville and the records and minimums at el mirage and decided to run in the 1000cc sc-pg and sc-pf ---the 1350cc sc-pg and sc-pf---the 2000cc sc-pg and sc-pf  classes --i have the motors and transmissions  2 xb9 buell motors and a 90 inch evo motor and trans from one of my old street bikes --i thought about the 500cc pushrod class but my wife sherri is trying to set that record --i also thought about the 3000cc class but i would have to buy two 1200 cc  buell motors that would be 2400cc 600cc short of the maximum--big bore kits would get closer to 3000cc but i dont want to spend all of that money so the 3000cc class is out --also ive decided to run in the sidecar class and not the streamlined sidecar class after priceing all of the extra safety stuff about 4000 dollars of stuff that i wont need in the sidecar class --im not sure of the design yet although i like the naked bike a little streamelining would sure help the top speed and i sure like the looks of scott stites bike im not sure how much differance the streamelining makes in speed i know my bike now has a cd of .8  and just guessing but with aero like scott has maybe a cd of .5 to .6 --well anyway that is pretty much the plan i have 3 bikes to build for customers one before speedweek so ill be pretty busy but like i said if anyone has any good ideas jump right in ---the 2 buell motors have very light flywheels but very short strokes (3.125 )so they should be easier to chain together than long stroke harleys --anyway just some thoughts   willie buchta


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: SPARKY on July 02, 2008, 08:35:22 AM
Was "The THING" on the salt in '69?  I mess around for a Dual eng drag bike in '69 my first trip to the Salt.  Willie have you considered a Balance shaft In the coupling chain between the 2 engs.. Willie you do know have to have fun!!!!!!!!!! way to go you 2---


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: Sumner on July 02, 2008, 10:55:45 AM
Was "The THING" on the salt in '69?  I mess around for a Dual eng drag bike in '69 my first trip to the Salt.  Willie have you considered a Balance shaft In the coupling chain between the 2 engs.. Willie you do know have to have fun!!!!!!!!!! way to go you 2---


Sparky are you talking about going with something like Mike has used on Ack Attack..............

(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/ack-attack/construction-26.jpg)

( http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/ack-attack/construction%20page%203.html  )

Willie I would take a look at this approach as it is fairly simple in concept and can even be used to drive the rear wheel with a chain on both sides of the wheel, maybe not necessary with your HP output, but worth looking at.

I think you and Sheri need a Utah vacation.  I'll take you sightseeing for a couple days and then with your help the lakester would probably be done in a few more days  8-).

c ya,

Sum


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: sheribuchta on July 06, 2008, 12:50:45 AM
sum  are you going to have her running by speedweek  willie buchta


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: Sumner on July 06, 2008, 08:27:59 AM
sum  are you going to have her running by speedweek  willie buchta

No  :cry:,  and I was hoping for maybe WOS or WF, but that looks pretty doubtful every time I think about all that still has to be done.  I am working on it every day now.

I'll be at SW with Hooley and the Stude and was thinking about bringing the lakester and having it teched, but with the price of gas and since I would then need to bring two vehicles that probably won't happen.

I'm looking forward to seeing you guys,

Sum


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: sheribuchta on July 06, 2008, 08:42:17 AM
is there anything i can do to help    willie buchta


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: Sumner on July 06, 2008, 10:14:26 AM
is there anything i can do to help    willie buchta

Yea, take the next three weeks off and come to Blanding  :-D. 

Thanks, but not anything I can think of.  It is really hard for me to put someone to work on the car if they are here as I usually don't design the next part until I get to it and then it is in my head mostly.  Phil was a big help as he is a good welder and came up with some solutions for me when he was here.

I guess it will get done when it is done and since I enjoy the design/build stage the best maybe it is good this way.  Also I won't embarrass myself when it can't pull away from the push truck this way  :-o.

c ya and you get back to work also.  I just came in for a little ice after resting my hand on a place I had just welded  :roll:,

Sum


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: Peter Jack on July 06, 2008, 11:30:47 AM
As far as constructive tips go Sum, you just gave one of the best and it should be emphasized more. If you burn yourself get ice on the burn as quickly as possible. It gets rid of the pain and blistering before it ever starts at the expense of a little cold for a few minutes to offset the heat you've already input. Here in Calgary where we get our water straight from the Rockies we can just leave the burn under the tap until you can't stand it any more.

Pete


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: SPARKY on July 06, 2008, 04:02:00 PM
Sum, Something like that ----I would think it would have fly wheels on it that you could bolt or weld counter weights to to smooth out the Harley Pulses----just  know a lot of 4 have counter balance shafts---- 

OR maybe a huge centerflywheel with each eng driving it own clutch  that is mounted to the centerflywheel on its on jackshaft to the drive driven wheel???? just flapping my fingers instead of my JAWS---lol


Title: Re: speed-o-light
Post by: sheribuchta on July 06, 2008, 04:38:13 PM
the problem is not balance when you chain 2 harley motors together its a matter of keeping the top run of the chain tight --if the chain goes tight slack tight slack it stretches the chain and the problem becomes worse until the chain fails-or worse yet the engine cases fail--ive talked to everyone i can think of and most everyone says let the front engine lead and keep the chain tight--everyone has a different openion about how much lead and i think that is because each one was dealing with a different stroke --my engines have very light flywheels ( lighter than any harley that i know of ) and a very short stroke 3.125 (the shortest of any harley v twin)  im hopeing the short stroke and the high rpm of the motor will be in my favor being that the engine pulses will be closer together in time because of the higher rpm --but i wont really know until i try it --i even thought about running the ignition system off of one motor but then if the chain stretches one motor goes out of time ---any way the reason for this build is like i said the bike will be able to run any engine or combination of engines and will be easy to change and can run in 56 (?)  different classes just by changing motor or motors---just some thoughts  willie buchta