Landracing Forum

El Mirage => El Mirage General Chat => Topic started by: beebo5150 on June 13, 2008, 03:54:26 PM

Title: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: beebo5150 on June 13, 2008, 03:54:26 PM: my friend just put up this web of her grandfather and friends 1950's
http://blackiebernal.webs.com/
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: tomsmith on June 13, 2008, 06:22:45 PM: I wondered what happened to Blackie. The last time I saw him was in 1954. I rode his Triumph a couple of times.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: interested bystander on June 13, 2008, 10:21:56 PM: I remember reading about Blackie's exploits before I could shave- Neat stuff!
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: John Noonan on June 14, 2008, 12:19:37 AM: Cool pictures however please stop posting the same thing in different forums.

John

PS those guys riding like that were wild. :mrgreen:

J
Title: Was he the one who came off his bike at speed?
Post by: Wester on June 14, 2008, 02:26:38 AM: When it happened, 1952 or 1953, it took four hours to get the rider to the hospital in Tooele and the ambulance back to the salt so racing could continue. A rider upped his speed on a Harley by 3 mph, from low 160's to mid 160's by doing what Rollie Free had done in 1948, strip down to a bathing suit and lay out on the bike. A second rider on a smaller displacement bike tried it and came off at about 120. You can imagine what the salt did to him. The next year the rules had changed and leathers were required and you had to sit on the bike.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: tomsmith on June 14, 2008, 01:41:47 PM: In 1952 there was one ambulance (with "Scotty's Muffler Shop" painted on its door). It was thought that Wells Nevada had an emergency facility so the ambulance went there. When it was discovered that Wells didn't, the ambulance went on to Elko. After 110 miles we arrived. Joe Fernandez told me that he followed us in his car with his good friend Blackie Bernal and the ambulance was going over 100mph. During the trip, they asked me if I minded getting my bathing suit cut off so they could put bandages on. I told them I didn't really care one way or another. They decided that Salt Lake City was the place to go in the future, if it was ever necessary. The leathers rule was apparently my fault.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: TouringComet on June 14, 2008, 06:58:11 PM: I don't know what year, but there was another incident where a rider came off, wearing two piece leathers, and as the rider slid on his back, the leathers rolled up. That resulted in the rule that the leathers have to be one piece, or zipped together.

I, too, enjoyed the pictures on the site mentioned above. I think one of the pictures shows Marty Dickerson's Vincent Rapide, with the Joe Simpson Black Lightning right behind it.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: interested bystander on June 14, 2008, 07:44:57 PM: That Scotty's Muffler ambulance would have probably been driven by Jack Purdy and later served as the ambulance for Colton Drags probably till the strip closed in '64.

Joe Fernandez, what a great guy- although I remember going into a bar with him back in the day and having to tell a fib about my age in order to quench my thirst!

Tom, you didn't work in the Harley shop in maybe Monterey Park or El Monte on Garvey Blvd in those days did you?
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Super Kaz on June 14, 2008, 07:45:56 PM: Quote from: John Noonan on June 14, 2008, 12:19:37 AM
Cool pictures however please stop posting the same thing in different forums.

John

PS those guys riding like that were wild. :mrgreen:

J

Worlds Fastest,
Ya don't I know :-o! I Tried that in our little Top Speed Shootout,and I didn't go any Faster :? !
I talked a couple octaves higher for next couple of hour's thats for sure!:x
I think Little Jon A. took a pic,but I can't find it :oops:.
He Musta of had a package compartment built into the seat ?Cause theres no way I could have raced over a Mile with my Jewels in my throat {ouch}:|
SK...............
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: tomsmith on June 14, 2008, 08:50:08 PM: Yep, I worked at Motorcycle Specialties HD on Garvey Blvd in South San Gabriel, who sponsored me, off and on for about three years. Down Garvey a mile or two was Ed Kretz's shop. I dropped out of college in 1952 and worked there full time in exchange for discounted parts and free labor on my drag bike since I didn't have any money. I normally rode Joe Fernandez' knucklehead at drags and dry lakes. Since he was good friends with Blackie Bernal, he set me up with Blackie and his drag Triumph in 1952 when he had his drag bike down for upgrade to billet cylinders and bigger displacement. Joe thought I needed something to do while waiting for him. I also rode a K-model Harley at Carrell Speedway and my HD Hummer on scrambles & Catalina. John Gregurich sold the shop to Bob Laidlaw right about the time that Joe Smith initially ran his drag bike out of the shop. I loaned my gas dragster (minus motor) to Joe Smith for a while. He used his motor in it while he was building up his first drag bike. Bob Laidlaw did the lower end on my dragster and I did the porting and upper end. I returned to college in 54 after recovering from Bonneville and built up my gas dragster in 57 or 58. I finally dropped out of college and got a real job in 1959 at Edwards AFB. By that time I was married and had a kid. College, wife, kid and a job kind of slowed me down permanently although my wife got mad at me when I quit running drags.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: DahMurf on June 14, 2008, 09:28:12 PM: Wow Tom! I've heard about that incident occuring but haven't heard much about it.
How bad were your injuries and how long was the recovery?

Deb
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: John Noonan on June 14, 2008, 10:33:53 PM: Quote from: tomsmith on June 14, 2008, 08:50:08 PM
Yep, I worked at Motorcycle Specialties HD on Garvey Blvd in South San Gabriel, who sponsored me, off and on for about three years. Down Garvey a mile or two was Ed Kretz's shop. I dropped out of college in 1952 and worked there full time in exchange for discounted parts and free labor on my drag bike since I didn't have any money. I normally rode Joe Fernandez' knucklehead at drags and dry lakes. Since he was good friends with Blackie Bernal, he set me up with Blackie and his drag Triumph in 1952 when he had his drag bike down for upgrade to billet cylinders and bigger displacement. Joe thought I needed something to do while waiting for him. I also rode a K-model Harley at Carrell Speedway and my HD Hummer on scrambles & Catalina. John Gregurich sold the shop to Bob Laidlaw right about the time that Joe Smith initially ran his drag bike out of the shop. I loaned my gas dragster (minus motor) to Joe Smith for a while. He used his motor in it while he was building up his first drag bike. Bob Laidlaw did the lower end on my dragster and I did the porting and upper end. I returned to college in 54 after recovering from Bonneville and built up my gas dragster in 57 or 58. I finally dropped out of college and got a real job in 1959 at Edwards AFB. By that time I was married and had a kid. College, wife, kid and a job kind of slowed me down permanently although my wife got mad at me when I quit running drags.

Awesome information, about two months ago I went to Laidlaw's HD and was able to meet Bob Laidlaw and also Joe Smith, great times for sure.. :mrgreen:

John
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: tomsmith on June 14, 2008, 10:47:57 PM: I am about 25% scar tissue, more or less. I'm missing two of my three left arm tricept muscles and part of my quadriceps on both legs. I had skin grafts, but the doctor misjudged what shape I was in so I regressed from the operation and almost died. I had to have intravenous feeding after this, which took 4 hrs, 45 minutes each time and was done in the back of my right hand so I couldn't move anything. I was laid up for 16 months and could only use my right arm, my mouth and a bed pan. After about a year my mother (who was a MD) did some research and found some primitive artificial skin. It looked like thick Saran Wrap with a lot of perforations. This really helped out, and reduced bandage changing from 4 hrs a day to change half my bandages to a total of about an hour. The old-method gauze bandages would sink into my flesh and prevent scar tissue from forming. I think I lost a gauze bandage in my left leg and never found it. I usually was able to pull out the threads with some tweezers I kept for the purpose. I was going about 150mph and got a time of 139mph sliding through the first trap. Modern technology would have gotten me up many months faster. I should have waited 50 years.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: tomsmith on June 14, 2008, 11:20:01 PM: I should mention that Joe Fernandez and I both used custom JE pistons (back when JE was just North of Valley Blvd in So Pasadena or was it Alhambra). We also always used Chet Herbert cams. My gas dragster (see Avatar at left) had one of Chet's first high lift, short dwell gas cams. I built up the gas dragster in 1957/58 deliberately detuned so it wouldn't scare me. It was just as fast as Joe Fernandez' fuel knucklehead went back in 1952 so my approach was a failure and I got the gas record at several strips. It also ran about 150mph at Avenue 5 in Pomona in 1958. The Brute ran 172mph there a couple of weeks earlier. I got the Lions gas elapsed time record of 10.65 seconds by accident. I was fooling around on an experimental start and actually shut off before the traps. I had been thinking (with John Gregurich) about building up a fast dragster with custom frame, etc. and had accumulated some parts when I changed jobs and got too busy. I was working 60-70 hours/week at my new job at JPL in Pasadena.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: DahMurf on June 15, 2008, 08:53:59 AM: Wow that's amazing Tom, thanks for the reply. It's great you had your Mom by your side with her knowledge. Patient advocates are still such an intricate part of healing! How are you doing now? Did it slow you down much or did you just cope and move forward?

I really love hearing about the past of this sport first hand while we still can!

Deb
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: tomsmith on June 15, 2008, 10:50:03 AM: I just moved forward (slowly). My only real problem is old age and I doubt I can do anything about it. I don't weigh 124 pounds any more. I also gained a wife and three kids. I changed from a pre-med major to mathematics (I still don't know why) and got into computers. This is a good fit for weird nerds, and it lasted me from 1959 until I retired in 2001. I used to tell the people that worked for me that if they ever detected any signs of me growing up to warn me immediately. My wife thinks the warning worked.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 22, 2009, 11:42:22 AM: Quote from: tomsmith on June 14, 2008, 08:50:08 PM
Yep, I worked at Motorcycle Specialties HD on Garvey Blvd in South San Gabriel, who sponsored me, off and on for about three years. Down Garvey a mile or two was Ed Kretz's shop. I dropped out of college in 1952 and worked there full time in exchange for discounted parts and free labor on my drag bike since I didn't have any money. I normally rode Joe Fernandez' knucklehead at drags and dry lakes. Since he was good friends with Blackie Bernal, he set me up with Blackie and his drag Triumph in 1952 when he had his drag bike down for upgrade to billet cylinders and bigger displacement. Joe thought I needed something to do while waiting for him. I also rode a K-model Harley at Carrell Speedway and my HD Hummer on scrambles & Catalina. John Gregurich sold the shop to Bob Laidlaw right about the time that Joe Smith initially ran his drag bike out of the shop. I loaned my gas dragster (minus motor) to Joe Smith for a while. He used his motor in it while he was building up his first drag bike. Bob Laidlaw did the lower end on my dragster and I did the porting and upper end. I returned to college in 54 after recovering from Bonneville and built up my gas dragster in 57 or 58. I finally dropped out of college and got a real job in 1959 at Edwards AFB. By that time I was married and had a kid. College, wife, kid and a job kind of slowed me down permanently although my wife got mad at me when I quit running drags.

I'm going to go ahead and reply to this post until I learn more about the workings of this Forum...

Hi Tommy,

I remember the day I first met Bob Laidlaw and he told me the story of Tommy Smith, it was a Big Story in the Salt Racing World at that time...

I also worked for Laidlaw in the seventy's and eighty's, Bob was my main Sponsor through out my Drag Racing Career...He was responsible for the seven year Sponsorship I had from the Harley Davidson Motor Co...He and the fact that I was at the top of the Motorcycle Drag Racing field...

I met John Noonan when a Aussie email friend came to America to meet with me for a visit, we met a Laidlaw's new Store and had a great day of past memories and bench racing...plus we spent some time with Bob Laidlaw which was a treat in it's self...Bob and I have been friends since 1954...

I remember when they let me used that complete drag chassis but didn't know it was yours at the time...I believe it was raced before with a Panhead Motor, I know I went faster with it with my Knucklehead motor than the Pahhead...I have some pictures of when I used that chassis and if you like I will find them and Post one...

Granddaddy Joe Smith
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: John Noonan on June 22, 2009, 11:58:41 AM: Hello Joe and welcome to the forum.. :cheers:

Tell us more about this Tom Fellow.. :-D

J
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 22, 2009, 12:32:40 PM: Quote from: John Noonan on June 22, 2009, 11:58:41 AM
Hello Joe and welcome to the forum.. :cheers:

Tell us more about this Tom Fellow.. :-D

J

Hey John,

I really never met Tommy, seen him once after the accident at Motorcycle Specialties before it became Laidlaw's Harley Davidson...I only heard the story of the "fall down on the Salt" and how badly he got messed up...Man, that all happen probably before you were born...I really didn't know that he later worked at Ed Kretz's Triumph Dealership which was just down the street from Laidlaw's or just don't remember, that was a long time ago and a different life back then...

I went 118 MPH on gas with that chassis, like I said not knowing it was Tommy's...It was a lot prettier than the one I was using at the time and I was glad to use it for them...What brought it on was the argument between Gregavich (owner of Motorcycle Specialties) and Bob Laidlaw who at the time was the Engine Builder at Specialties...The argument was Bob said he could build a faster motor than the Panhead that was in Tommy's bike which Gregavich built...The Panhead went 113 MPH if I'm correct...Laidlaw won the "BET"...

I've been trying to keep up with your action at Bonneville, not hard to do, plus I get info from our Aussie Friend, Baz...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: John Noonan on June 22, 2009, 01:01:20 PM: Joe,

I was asking about Tom N..

Nevermind..Tell Baz Hello.

J
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 22, 2009, 01:50:04 PM: Quote from: John Noonan on June 22, 2009, 01:01:20 PM
Joe,

I was asking about Tom N..

Nevermind..Tell Baz Hello.

J

I went back and checked and seen what you are talking about...You have to give me some credit John, I'm old, so old I removed the mirror's in the bathroom long ago...

What was your name ~~Bond~~ no John, I got it now, Sorry...

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/granddaddyjoesmith/Pictures%20for%20forum/IMG_0003.jpg)

1969, my Knucklehead at Bonneville
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: High Gear on June 22, 2009, 02:51:32 PM: Tom,

Did you run a junior fuel Triumph in the late 60's?

Gary
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: bak189 on June 22, 2009, 04:08:58 PM: Great to hear you are still with us, Joe......I had the pleasure in seeing you run many a time at the drags..
About the same time period I was running a Triumph out of Bill Graves's shop in Pasadena........Bill called the bike "Senator" because Bill said "It made lots of noise....and did not do much".......we had fun.......
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 22, 2009, 06:09:22 PM: Quote from: bak189 on June 22, 2009, 04:08:58 PM
Great to hear you are still with us, Joe......I had the pleasure in seeing you run many a time at the drags..
About the same time period I was running a Triumph out of Bill Graves's shop in Pasadena........Bill called the bike "Senator" because Bill said "It made lots of noise....and did not do much".......we had fun.......

Is this one of the Baker Brothers of the late 50's...?
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: John Noonan on June 22, 2009, 08:31:40 PM: Quote from: Granddaddy Joe on June 22, 2009, 06:09:22 PM
Quote from: bak189 on June 22, 2009, 04:08:58 PM
Great to hear you are still with us, Joe......I had the pleasure in seeing you run many a time at the drags..
About the same time period I was running a Triumph out of Bill Graves's shop in Pasadena........Bill called the bike "Senator" because Bill said "It made lots of noise....and did not do much".......we had fun.......

Is this one of the Baker Brothers of the late 50's...?

[/quote

Joe,

Can't be, he is about 72..... :wink:
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: slopoke on June 22, 2009, 09:20:41 PM: .
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Stan Back on June 22, 2009, 10:56:51 PM: That (those) Enfield was the king for quite a while!
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 22, 2009, 11:08:47 PM: Quote,

"I remember looking at "Joe's" bike photo's in CYCLE Magazine,
and using pencil and protractor to figure out wheelbase,
rake, trail, CDa, horsepower, etc".

I'd like to see that...??
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: slopoke on June 23, 2009, 10:12:27 AM: .
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 23, 2009, 11:25:04 AM: Quote from: slopoke on June 23, 2009, 10:12:27 AM
Quote from: Granddaddy Joe on June 22, 2009, 11:08:47 PM
Quote,

"I remember looking at "Joe's" bike photo's in CYCLE Magazine,
and using pencil and protractor to figure out wheelbase,
rake, trail, CDa, horsepower, etc".

I'd like to see that...??

That issue is still on my shelf,
with the calculations in the margin......

You should see the Enz calc's....

Like I said, I'd like to see the measurements you came up with by looking at picture in magazine of my Fuel bike...would be very interesting to see how close you came...there were three single engine bikes, which picture were you looking at...some of the articles told the dimensions...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: saltwheels262 on June 25, 2009, 05:03:50 PM: ...I have some pictures of when I used that chassis and if you like I will find them and Post one...

Granddaddy Joe Smith[/b]

[/quote]

joe,
post all the pix you like. i'm sure all would enjoy.

don't think i ever got to see you run ; but did follow articles in any
number of bike mags at the time.

funny thing is; i brought your name up last thurs.(6/18) while on the phone w/ drag bike collector in l.a.

franey
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 25, 2009, 08:44:10 PM: Slopoke,

What happen to your postings...I hope you didn't think I was being defensive asking to see the measurements you came up with from looking at a picture of one of my Fuel Bikes, I really was interested in how close you came...I know it can be done, I have a very good friend in Aussie Country by the name of BAZ that has done it with slides pictures shown on a wall...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 25, 2009, 08:56:32 PM: Saltwheels262,

I don't have a lot of pictures from Bonneville and none from El Mirage, I spent my Career in Drag Racing...

Here's a picture I took at Bonneville of and old Friend Leo Payne, a man that loved Bonneville and held many records in his time...

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/granddaddyjoesmith/LeoPayneonthesalt.jpg)
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: saltwheels262 on June 26, 2009, 09:28:18 AM: drag pix are good.

franey
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 26, 2009, 09:25:15 PM: Here's a picture I'm very proud of even though it's a copy and not to good...It's me holding Boris Murray's Double Engine Triumph at Bonneville in the late sixty's...It's the only time you will see me wearing a T-Shirt that has that WORD on it...

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/granddaddyjoesmith/2007-08-15_211902_me_at_Bonniville.jpg)
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on June 26, 2009, 09:48:37 PM: Neat picture. :-)

Mike
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: slopoke on June 27, 2009, 01:44:08 AM: .
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 27, 2009, 01:57:40 AM: Quote from: slopoke on June 27, 2009, 01:44:08 AM
Quote from: Granddaddy Joe on June 25, 2009, 08:44:10 PM
Slopoke,

What happen to your postings...

I use www.post-wink.com

eliminates anoying posts within 72 hours.

What do you use ?

Slopoke,

Hmmmmm, you have annoying post...?Well that's possible, I didn't notice...Sorry...I don't believe your www. works...are you kidding me...??
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: slopoke on June 27, 2009, 02:16:38 AM: .
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: slopoke on June 27, 2009, 02:42:26 AM: .
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 27, 2009, 03:01:28 AM: Slopoke, Thank you...

Yes, it was the year Leo cracked the 200 barrier...

Leo's bike is all Harley, not only was S&S his Sponsor any thing Leo needed the Harley Factory made sure Leo got it...This was also the year I ran my Knucklehead Drag Bike that I converted to run on the Salt...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Freud on June 27, 2009, 11:13:43 AM: Be patient. When I get home in a few days, I'll post a foto of the brake assembly.

One other thing that was unique was that his name was cast into the body of the carb.

FREUD
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: saltwheels262 on June 27, 2009, 03:04:32 PM: (http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/granddaddyjoesmith/2007-08-15_211902_me_at_Bonniville.jpg)
[/quote]

what was speed of murray's double and your
converted dragster at the salt?

picture of yours? what years?

franey
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 27, 2009, 09:01:26 PM: Saltwheels262,

I knew someone was going to ask me what year...because I never kept any written records of my adventure with the Salt and the memory is missing, the best I can answer is some where between 1967 and 69...

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/granddaddyjoesmith/24112007003.jpg)

I did get to see Burt Monroe run this liner...

On Boris, I'm going to try and get him on this forum to talk about his Salt Time and if not try and get the correct data from Boris instead of giving wrong info...

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/granddaddyjoesmith/IMG_0044.jpg)

My Time on the Salt...First let me say, I loved Drag Racing and was very good at it during my Career but making a run at Bonneville is not as easy as some would think...The first thing that hits you during a run is "how long you have to leave the throttle on"...For those of you that do that, I congratulate you on such bravery...

I ran 185 to qualify for the record but had handling problems ever run which I later blamed on the "shock style steering dampener" that someone talked me into mounting while preparing the bike for Bonneville, so I never got a full run, just an adventure on the Salt...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: High Gear on June 29, 2009, 09:29:24 AM: We definitely need Boris on this forum. I spent some time with him at the BUB meet. What a cool guy & he can still ride a minibike backwards sittingin the bars.

Gary
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Dakzila on June 30, 2009, 11:12:51 AM: WOW.....Never know who'll you'll discover on this site!

For those of us who grew up racing drag bikes Joe Smith is a Legend and a Hero. I had 650 triumphs but always wanted a 9 second Harley like Joe Smith.
When I got drafted in 1965 I took a dragbike mag to boot camp. There was an article on how to build a 9 second Harley like Joe's....that mag and article got me through my two year stint in the Army, Thanks Joe!

I never did get my Harley dragbike but thanks to people like Joe I'm still racing bikes, 51 years later...

Thanks for all the memories Joe.

Buzz
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: High Gear on June 30, 2009, 12:17:47 PM: That piece was written by Cook Neilson, based on the Danny Johnson bike.

Way cool stuf.

Gary
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on June 30, 2009, 02:22:56 PM: Quote from: Dakzila on June 30, 2009, 11:12:51 AM
WOW.....Never know who'll you'll discover on this site!

For those of us who grew up racing drag bikes Joe Smith is a Legend and a Hero. I had 650 triumphs but always wanted a 9 second Harley like Joe Smith.
When I got drafted in 1965 I took a dragbike mag to boot camp. There was an article on how to build a 9 second Harley like Joe's....that mag and article got me through my two year stint in the Army, Thanks Joe!

I never did get my Harley dragbike but thanks to people like Joe I'm still racing bikes, 51 years later...

Thanks for all the memories Joe.

Buzz

Buzz,

Thank you for the very kind words, I'm especially glad I was able to help you through your time in the Service...I wished I had that power today toward the Military defending the USA and was in some way able to do the same for them...

I sure would like to read that article Cook Nelson did on Danny Johnson in 1965, I usually kept up with Cook's Magazine Articles but must have missed that one...Danny Johnson left his Mark of greatness in the world of Motorcycle Drag Racing...and is surly missed by all...

Here's a photo I took of Cook sitting pool side at one of the races, that's my Wife Pat just behind him...

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/granddaddyjoesmith/tmpphpz6UgVG.jpg)
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Dakzila on June 30, 2009, 05:18:07 PM: Great picture Joe, thanks.

When you have time how about posting a few pictures of you and the bike????

Thanks again,

Buzz
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: saltwheels262 on July 01, 2009, 09:51:59 AM: (http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/granddaddyjoesmith/24112007003.jpg)

i didn't know munro had 2 bikes that
the liner shell could be mounted on.

franey
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Geo on July 01, 2009, 10:30:45 AM: Where are these Munro items located?

Geo
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on July 01, 2009, 12:49:33 PM: Quote from: Geo on July 01, 2009, 10:30:45 AM
Where are these Munro items located?

Geo

The picture of Monroe's Liner was sent to me by my Friend "Baz" from down under in Aussie Land...He's also a friend of John Noonan...I've sent Baz an email asking for more info on the picture and bikes...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: grumm441 on July 01, 2009, 04:46:25 PM: The bikes are on display in New Zealand
http://www.ehayes.co.nz/burtmunro/

Gray
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: fredvance on July 01, 2009, 05:17:38 PM: Burt was a remarkable guy. Our modern day accomplishments pale in comparison. :cheers:
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 01, 2009, 06:04:30 PM: Quote from: Geo on July 01, 2009, 10:30:45 AM
Where are these Munro items located?
Geo

That display there is in E Hayes and son Hardware store in Invercargill South Island New Zealand, they were , IIRC also the proprietors of an engineering works. They supported Burt for a long time and bought a lot of Burt's stuff late in his life. I was on the South Island a few years back and did a bit of a Burt tour, they built a bunch of the replicas for the film...I can't remember exactly where the real bits and pieces are but I think the Velo at Hayes was the real one. Either way they sure looked like the real vintage...I also saw one of the 'liner copies at Christchurch Museum alongside one of the John Britten bikes....what a contrast!you couldn't see a stranger pair ....Burt's lithe and subdued colored liner and the bright pink , yellow and blue preying mantis of Britten's bike.....

We also went to Oreti Beach where the racing was held in Invercargill , it's a stone's throw from Antarctica :-o.......it was kind of windy :-o :-o
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on July 07, 2009, 09:59:15 PM: Question about El Mirage and Bonneville,

Are you able to drive your personal car into the area where the racers pit...?

One more,

Why doesn't my "Bold" and others no longer work...?
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on July 07, 2009, 10:10:25 PM: Let's see, Granddaddy Joe:

This should be in bold, and this might well be italics. What do you think? Here's some of the other stuff:

Color

"Marquee"

Does that help answer you -- the things still work here? If so -- must be something with your connection or 'puter or something. Try again. . .
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: grumm441 on July 07, 2009, 10:16:40 PM: Quote from: Seldom Seen Slim on July 07, 2009, 10:10:25 PM
Let's see, Granddaddy Joe:

This should be in bold, and this might well be italics. What do you think? Here's some of the other stuff:

Color

"Marquee"

Does that help answer you -- the things still work here? If so -- must be something with your connection or 'puter or something. Try again. . .

I had never noticed Marquee. That's just odd!

Gray
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: racefanwfo on July 07, 2009, 11:37:53 PM: joe you can drive and park anywhere around the course at elmo including the pits.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on July 07, 2009, 11:56:55 PM: Thanks racefanwfo,

Seldom seen slim,

Yep, I know how it works, used it the first few time's I posted but no longer work-ie...

OH well, don't worry about it...it's fine the way it is...
Title: Not any 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: John Noonan on July 08, 2009, 02:16:41 AM: Quote from: Granddaddy Joe on July 07, 2009, 11:56:55 PM
Thanks racefanwfo,

Seldom seen slim,

Yep, I know how it works, used it the first few time's I posted but no longer work-ie...

OH well, don't worry about it...it's fine the way it is...

Joe it works fine..it is you.... :cheers:
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: racefanwfo on July 08, 2009, 03:02:54 AM: hey joe how many times did you race tc and his bike the hogslayer.
what was your win loss record.
Title: Re: Not any 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on July 08, 2009, 03:25:02 AM: Quote from: John Noonan on July 08, 2009, 02:16:41 AM
Quote from: Granddaddy Joe on July 07, 2009, 11:56:55 PM
Thanks racefanwfo,

Seldom seen slim,

Yep, I know how it works, used it the first few time's I posted but no longer work-ie...

OH well, don't worry about it...it's fine the way it is...

Joe it works fine..it is you.... :cheers:

John,

You must be right but I don't understand it...The very first post I made I was able to select what I wanted Bold and click the "B", now it no longer does that...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: racefanwfo on July 08, 2009, 03:45:03 AM: :cheers:
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on July 08, 2009, 04:42:10 AM: Quote from: racefanwfo on July 08, 2009, 03:02:54 AM
hey joe how many times did you race tc and his bike the hogslayer.
what was your win loss record.

TC and I raced against each other a lot, that's where the "Hogslayer" came from...We also had a series of Match races...Those were the most fun, we filled the stands at a few Drag Strips that never had more than a couple thousand people until we booked in...some strips were so bumpy we shouldn't have even been there...There was one that I remember very well, there was a big bump at the 1000 foot mark and it was a night Match Race...We both were turning over 175 and hit that bump and sparks would fly off the bottom of the frames and the front wheel got in the air, the spectators went crazy...It's funny about racing, we both agreed to shut off early on the last race, are you kidding, neither of us shut off, we hit that bump and both got out of control, my bike jumped in his lane with my front tire almost rubbing his slick...We came to a stop at the end sitting there in the dark taking off our gloves and helmets and Tommy said..."lets get our money and get the hell out of here"...Tommy and I were good Showman, Burnouts side by side, took a lot of time from the start of the motors until the green, always finish side by side through the lights...always over 170 and the ET times then were in the very low eights...We each wanted to win but putting on a good show for the Spectators was really what we were after, that's how we made our living and wanted to come back to race another day...

Tommy whipped me two out of three that night, I really never kept any win lose record with Tommy, or Boris Murray for that matter...I just knew that I won and Tommy won but probably Tommy won more that I did...

TC and Boris were the two best Motorcycle Drag Racing RIDERS I ever knew...during my Career...

BESIDE ME...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Bluenote on July 23, 2009, 08:50:28 PM: [quote author=Granddaddy Joe link=topic=4070.msg93642#msg93642 Tommy whipped me two out of three that night, I really never kept any win lose record with Tommy, or Boris Murray for that matter...I just knew that I won and Tommy won but probably Tommy won more that I did...

TC and Boris were the two best Motorcycle Drag Racing RIDERS I ever knew...during my Career...

BESIDE ME...

[/quote]

Man but this brings back some memories , you , T.C. and the hogslayer ,and later Bonnie Truett, Russ Collins and a host of others.

Wonder if you could do me a favor . could you ask Boris Murray if he remembers the 'Ring Ding Express' out of the Denco shop in the East Bay.

B.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on July 23, 2009, 09:19:53 PM: Quote from: Bluenote on July 23, 2009, 08:50:28 PM
[quote author=Granddaddy Joe link=topic=4070.msg93642#msg93642 Tommy whipped me two out of three that night, I really never kept any win lose record with Tommy, or Boris Murray for that matter...I just knew that I won and Tommy won but probably Tommy won more that I did...

TC and Boris were the two best Motorcycle Drag Racing RIDERS I ever knew...during my Career...

BESIDE ME...

Man but this brings back some memories , you , T.C. and the hogslayer ,and later Bonnie Truett, Russ Collins and a host of others.

Wonder if you could do me a favor . could you ask Boris Murray if he remembers the 'Ring Ding Express' out of the Denco shop in the East Bay.

B.
[/quote]

Bluenote,

Were you around Denco when I was in there every day for a time and we were building a new Double Engine Chassis to replace my old one...I never use it and I think Marion Owens has it now...

Yea, I'll relay your message to Boris...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Bluenote on July 24, 2009, 04:41:05 PM: Bluenote,

Were you around Denco when I was in there every day for a time and we were building a new Double Engine Chassis to replace my old one...I never use it and I think Marion Owens has it now...

Yea, I'll relay your message to Boris...

[/quote]

I'd imagine we met a few times , I had a whole long series of Denco triples that I ran at Fremont and around the Bay Area street scene in those days ( yeah I know we shouldn't have been running on the street , but we were young and there was money to be had , especially from the Honda crowd that thought the sun rose and set with R.C. engineering in those days) , learned a lot about proper launching from Tony N. and a whole lot about the motors from Dennis and a guy named Rusty who used to port for them.

Man this really does make the memories come flooding back , getting stopped in downtown San Jose once on a wicked Denco built 750 triple and the cops looking in vain for a way to ticket me for the wheeelie bars , they finally just wrote me for the slick and let it go.

Met a whole lot of people there , which led to a whole bunch of entertaining adventures that went on for years , trips down to the Pastrami Stand in L.A. ( bring your A game and money....) , moving to the big Suzukis and going to Daytona and hanging out at the Cabbage patch having my way with the big inch h/dS and the Honda crowd until Mike Bruso showed up on that nasty Sid Pogue built Kaw he rode back then , had a number plate on it that said 10.80..........YEAHRIGHT , that one cost me some money but I made it all back betting on him.

Damn , nostalgia. Now Denco is but a memory , along with R.C. , Action Fours and a whole host of others , V and H makes more money selling pipes for japanese cruisers and if I say Truett and Osborn the younger crowd looks at me strange.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: tomsmith on July 24, 2009, 06:21:45 PM: Yes, Joe Smith ran faster with his knucklehead than my panhead (both engines in my frame). I ran gas with a low compression (7:1) motor since I was still recovering from Bonneville and didn't want to go too fast. I had 1/8" plates under the cylinders and my pistons were 8.5:1 without them. Joe used a 4-speed transmission, where I ran a 2-speed. This was the big difference. Originally, Harley did not make a foot shift so we had to use 2 speeds with neutral in between so we wouldn't miss shifts. Since tires were hard rubber, this resulted in a lot of wheelspin which in turn killed elapsed time. I found this by accident at Lions when I started off on a lazy test run with no wheelspin. My elapsed time was 10.65 seconds instead of my normal wheelspinning 12 seconds, and I even shut down and coasted some before I got to the traps. This was the best elapsed time at Lions at the time for a gas bike. Remember that everyone was in learning mode - what everyone now takes for granted was a mystery to us, although we could have used a little spare time to think. The same wheelspin thing happened with my 56 Corvette,along with tire hop - it ran 91mph and 14.85 seconds in low gear. It had a really wrong rear end ratio, so I went through the traps in first gear at about 6,000 rpm. It was red-lined at 7,200.
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Stan Back on July 24, 2009, 07:06:47 PM: Tom --

I understood everything up until the Vette. Did you leave something out?

Stan
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on July 24, 2009, 11:57:32 PM: Quote from: tomsmith on July 24, 2009, 06:21:45 PM
Yes, Joe Smith ran faster with his knucklehead than my panhead (both engines in my frame). I ran gas with a low compression (7:1) motor since I was still recovering from Bonneville and didn't want to go too fast. I had 1/8" plates under the cylinders and my pistons were 8.5:1 without them. Joe used a 4-speed transmission, where I ran a 2-speed. This was the big difference. Originally, Harley did not make a foot shift so we had to use 2 speeds with neutral in between so we wouldn't miss shifts. Since tires were hard rubber, this resulted in a lot of wheelspin which in turn killed elapsed time. I found this by accident at Lions when I started off on a lazy test run with no wheelspin. My elapsed time was 10.65 seconds instead of my normal wheelspinning 12 seconds, and I even shut down and coasted some before I got to the traps. This was the best elapsed time at Lions at the time for a gas bike. Remember that everyone was in learning mode - what everyone now takes for granted was a mystery to us, although we could have used a little spare time to think. The same wheelspin thing happened with my 56 Corvette,along with tire hop - it ran 91mph and 14.85 seconds in low gear. It had a really wrong rear end ratio, so I went through the traps in first gear at about 6,000 rpm. It was red-lined at 7,200.

Tommy,

Hi ya, yes those were the days, they were long ago and a bit sketchy in my mind...That old bike of mine back then went a best of 123 MPH at a 11.04 in 1956 at old San Gabriel Drags on gas...The same bike that year went 140 MPH at 10.65 ten runs at Fontana Raceway on fuel...I never ran a four speed, always ran second and third out of a three speed trans shifting with a jockey shift and no clutch...The tire I use was a 550-16 Dunlop out of an auto wrecking yard, the were natural gum rubber and only found on a few Sport Cars back then...later in the sixty's, running fuel with that same trans sit up, I fell down with my hand on that jockey shift, came back running high gear only...

I think in the fifty's it was just a bunch of guys getting together on the weekend and Drag Racing, back then there was a number of track to go to that was an hours drive from home...I don't think the learning mode came until the mid sixty's on...

Here's a story on this page of "no smoke runs" you might find interesting...

http://joe-smith-drag-racer-true-bench-racin.blogspot.com/2007/06/1971-breaking-9-second-barrier.html
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: RIFLEMAN on August 02, 2009, 04:05:30 AM: Joe,
Thanks for posting the link. Love reading about 'the old days'. Can't imagine what it was like to pull the trigger on those bikes.
Men were men back then!
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on August 02, 2009, 04:38:07 AM: Quote from: RIFLEMAN on August 02, 2009, 04:05:30 AM
Joe,
Thanks for posting the link. Love reading about 'the old days'. Can't imagine what it was like to pull the trigger on those bikes.
Men were men back then!

Thanks Rifleman,

Drag Racing is a lot easier than leaving the throttle on as long as you do at El Mirage or Bonneville...

Funny about where you live, I live in Hesperia CA...
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: Granddaddy Joe on October 11, 2009, 04:03:41 PM: Quote from: tomsmith on June 14, 2008, 08:50:08 PM
Yep, I worked at Motorcycle Specialties HD on Garvey Blvd in South San Gabriel, who sponsored me, off and on for about three years. Down Garvey a mile or two was Ed Kretz's shop. I dropped out of college in 1952 and worked there full time in exchange for discounted parts and free labor on my drag bike since I didn't have any money. I normally rode Joe Fernandez' knucklehead at drags and dry lakes. Since he was good friends with Blackie Bernal, he set me up with Blackie and his drag Triumph in 1952 when he had his drag bike down for upgrade to billet cylinders and bigger displacement. Joe thought I needed something to do while waiting for him. I also rode a K-model Harley at Carrell Speedway and my HD Hummer on scrambles & Catalina. John Gregurich sold the shop to Bob Laidlaw right about the time that Joe Smith initially ran his drag bike out of the shop. I loaned my gas dragster (minus motor) to Joe Smith for a while. He used his motor in it while he was building up his first drag bike. Bob Laidlaw did the lower end on my dragster and I did the porting and upper end. I returned to college in 54 after recovering from Bonneville and built up my gas dragster in 57 or 58. I finally dropped out of college and got a real job in 1959 at Edwards AFB. By that time I was married and had a kid. College, wife, kid and a job kind of slowed me down permanently although my wife got mad at me when I quit running drags.

Tommy,

I found a picture of the time I used your Chassis, it not too good and that's me getting ready for a run, T-Shirt and a helmet, that's my Mom and Dad standing there..

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/granddaddyjoesmith/Joe%20Smith%20Forum/IMG_0009-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 1950's land speed racers pics
Post by: theazoldcrow on October 11, 2009, 04:07:31 PM: :cheers: Grandaddy Joe, that pic brings back some old memories of "the days" Thanks for the post! Crow.