Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => How To Section => Topic started by: Dynoroom on April 10, 2008, 01:19:30 AM
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OK folks, same issue as the fiberglass post. I've never painted with automotive paint. Tell me some of the ways you paint your cars. I have a older (not state approved) spray gun and I know to use a good water trap but could use information on prep work, types of paint etc. I'm only going to spray one color.
Thanks in advance.........
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I should be painting my bike in the next month or two and will do a full report.
I like to use PPG products and your paint job is only as good as your prep work. An old friend of mine always tell me the prep is the most important and the body guy never gets credit good or bad. When someone see's a paint job on a bike/car they always ask who painted it, not who did the bodywork.
Scott
Here is the last bike I painted.
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/isiahstites/Waynes%20Paint/100_2058.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/isiahstites/Waynes%20Paint/100_2037.jpg)
My make-shift paint booth.
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/isiahstites/Waynes%20Paint/100_2022.jpg)
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To add to Scott's points, and nice paint job Scott, I would get a gravity feed gun if you don't have one. Here is a link to a Harbor Freight gun that is a darn good gun for the money....
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43430
.............. I have instructions on how to use it along with the model that preceded in on my site here.....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/techinfo.html#Auto
........ go to the second to last link at the bottom.
Scott on your improvised paint booth I might make a suggestion. Instead of the heavier blue tarps that are more expensive and you might be tempted to re-use I use the think throw-away clear plastic drop cloths that you can find in the paint dept. at the hardware store. I take a staple gun and just staple them to the walls and when done tear them down and throw them away.
Mike you want something like that to keep the paint off of your tools, etc. and to keep all the dust that is on your tools, well maybe not yours, and the walls from blowing off and getting in the paint.
With the HF HVLP (high volume low pressure) gun you can spray the primer coats without covering anything as there is almost no over spray. That also saves buying expensive paint. If you do the final coats in base/clear you will want everything very clean then as you won't be sanding the junk out like if it gets into the primer. Also the clear will fog all over the place even with the HVLP gun.
Make sure the air compressor is up to the job on the final color coats as you can't wait for it to catch up with you on those. A bare minimum is a 5 hp 2 cylinder with a 60 gallon tank or so. A 2 stage compressor is much better.
I have more on doing the body work on my site here..........
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/tech--body-paint-index.html
........... and Scott is absolutely right the body man should get 90% of the credit on a good paint job and the spray guy 10%. If you use base/clear you can easily fix any step as you go along and it is much easier to repair later.
c ya,
Sum
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Think in terms of a clean room. Dust and dirt are the enemy.
Make sure you have enough room to move around while you paint. Put up plastic walls, ceiling, and floor. If the wind is blowing hard, don't paint. Give your self a work surface inside the plastic. Every time you go in or out dirt is coming in. Your clothes shed lint. It's amazing how much stuff floats around waiting for wet paint.
The paint covers the surface you give it. Good, bad, or ugly, if the surface looks that way before paint it will look that way after. No matter how much time you put in to preparation, when you are done, really done, spend another hour. Take a bright, hand-held light and put it parallel to the surface and look for bumps. Not only the small variety, but long hills and valleys too.
Your hand is the best device for determining surface finish.
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Here's a lesson I learned the hard way - If you're working in a garage where you can't control the temp and humidity (issues I'm sure others can explain better than I can), be careful on warm and/or humid days - not because of the effect humidity can have on paint and primer, but because sweat dripping from your arm or face can ruin your work, especially in a plastic enclosed environment.
Back when I was 17, I was shooting enamal on my Cyclone and had to re-prep the hood due to perspiration drops from my hand. Young, dumb, and in a hurry. If it's too hot and humid to work in a long sleeve shirt, it's too hot and humid to be painting.
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A good rule of thumb when prepping if you can feel it, you will see it when painting. Finish prep with 400-600 w/d sandpaper. Use base coat/clear coat it is more forgiving for rookie painters. When clearing wait till each coat is almost dust free between coats. 2 coats of clear is enough for a quickie but go 4 if you want to color-sand and buff. Today's materials are formulated to work best with an HVLP but I have sprayed newer products with a conventional gun. Just over thin the clear a little. If you live in California I didn't say that.
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I guide coat every step, even the bondo. You can just work so much faster and see what is going on so much easier. I still use my hand, but the guide coat is more accurate. I also wear cloth gloves, the cheap brown ones, when sanding. They protect your fingers and you can actually feel imperfections better with the gloves on and you aren't getting the oil off your skin into the paint. For the guide coat I recommend the stuff that comes in a rattle can and is specifically made as a guide coat. It only costs a couple bucks and doesn't gum your paper and is easy to see and work with and dusts on really nice.
c ya,
Sum
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Hey guys lets see a few pictures of some of your work.
Scott
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In order to not overload the bandwidth with pics...... :-D
Just take a look at the result of any run in any paint and any color. That is descriptive of my absolute lack of talent in that area. :roll:
I can't even get flat black to stay flat! :-o
However, I would certainly enjoy any tips and tricks that would allow me to do something with paint other than be able to mix it or strain it! :-P :?
Regards to All,
HB2 :-)
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Hey guys lets see a few pictures of some of your work.
Scott
Mine is under my name to the left :evil:, Of course after 13 years on the salt it doesn't look quite as good anymore. I'll do something about that, but only after a lakester that I know about makes a pass,
Sum
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Has anyone found an easy and effective way of removing the mill scale from steel tubing prior to priming?
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Rubber gloves, lacquer thinner and a scuff pad
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Has anyone found an easy and effective way of removing the mill scale from steel tubing prior to priming?
Sand Blaster works and makes it ready to paint after a little wipe down.
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I would add to take a little time and make some sturdy bucks to screw your bike parts to...I have painted many a part hanging form string like Scott's photos(not a jab Scott, it takes talent I know too well to lay down a nice paint job while cussing and catching the part on the return swing.. :-D)...but seriously, and again from experience...light fibergalss parts WILL fly off the saw horse from the air from your gun. Like everyone has said, take much more time than you want too on the prep, don't sand with a heavy hand on anything over 220 grit, never sand in circles.
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OK, now that we're only about a month away from Speedweek I went in and reread the information in this post. Some questions come to mind as I get ready to squirt some color on the fiberglass part of this oh to long project.
We need to talk about all the work involved in the process. Do you wipe down the body after you sand it? OK what do you use?
How many coats of primer and do you need to thin it? Same with the paint. If you do need to thin it how much? What with? How long do you let it dry? Do you wipe it done between coats?
This will not be a show winning paint job, it will most likely be redone I just didn't want to go to the salt in primer only. So lets see what you guys come up with for a quick and easy paint job. OK nothing has been easy so I'm sure this wont be either. :evil:
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"I just didn't want to go to the salt in primer only."
Well, before you go and spend a lot of time painting, remember the success that Tom Bryant had in the 216 car -- flat black and primer only, for a bunch of years, and a good number of folks into the 2 Club. Maybe there's more to primer than you realized.
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Dynoroom, It all depends on the product. Call me and I'll give you some pointers.
To much to list here.
Brian
1-877-543-0220
8am-5pm
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Several months ago I asked of an easy way to remove mill scale from tubing. Well I think I found one. It is called Rust Blast manufactured by KBS Coatings.(www.KBSCoatings.com). After experimenting I found that soaking a piece of undershirt in the Rust Blaster and then wringing out the cloth until wet but not dripping.
Wrap the cloth around the tubing and smooth out any wrinkles or air bubbles. Being frugal I then wrapped the cloth in plastic wrap and waited about an hour. Unwrapping, the mill scale is on the cloth visable by the black color. A phosphate coating is left and the tubing is etched. Do not let the cloth to dry out as it sticks to the tubing and leaves a rough surface. This will come off with a little sanding. This method did not have as good results on hot rolled angle iron or flat stock. Probably soaking in the Rust Blaster prior to welding in place would give better results.Wear rubber gloves as the Rust Blaster will dry out hour hands and cause any cuts to burn like ----.
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On the issue of using automotive paints, a good respirator is a must and an outside airsource is even better. Read the MSD sheet on some of the 2 part paints and you will see how bad the fumes can be.
Spending money on an outside airsource is kind of like buying a good helmet...what's your good health worth?
I found a relatively inexpensive outside airsource here... http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/hobbyair.php
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/hobbyair.jpg)
I've been using it for years and haven't had any problems with it.
When painting outside, a good disposable mask made specifically for automotive paints is available at you local auto paint supply store. Just be careful to keep mist/fumes away from your eyes as they can be absorbed into your body there.
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The only advice I have is use a primer that contrast from you final color===white worked well under the blue and red---horribily under white---just could not tell when I had a good even cover.
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Sparky, for even coverage on the Ratical just do criss cross patterns with the roller.... :-D .... ROTFLOL
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LOL ---now that is an IDEA---SS # 1 ---beware payback can be a bitch :evil: ---lol :cheers:
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No, no, no...payback is double....I'm the bitch!!! Remember? :-D
Lynda
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My long time friend, Mike Parti (Trailblazers and AMA Hall of fame member) has always noted that Red-Primer is American's Racing Colours.......
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I'm a pretty experienced amateur painter, and here's my layers -
- On bare metal (steel or aluminum) start with self-etching primer
- Ground fiberglass. Static electricity is NOT your friend when painting this stuff.
- Thin the primer according to the manufacturer's suggestion
- Apply several layers of lacquer primer. Block sand every couple of layers.
- When satisfied, SEAL with thinned DP series epoxy primer (comes in various colors - DP90, for example, is sort of Hot Rod black). This is an important step and keeps any chemical issues from bleeding thru the paint. There are directions on the DP can as to how much to thin.
- DRY SPRAY the color coat, thinned and hardened according to manufacturer's directions. Wet coats here will probably cause problems with checking and other issues.
- Shoot at least 3 coats of clear - it goes on wet. Allow it to flash between coats as recommended.
- After finish (wet sand, buff, etc. as desired. On a race car you might chose to omit this step completely.
- I always stick with a complete system thruout the entire process - my fave is PPG.
- Find a good paint store and listen to them.
- ALWAYS use fresh clear coat hardener. Once the can is opened keep it in the fridge between uses or it WILL NOT harden the clear. Ask me how I know this. On my brother-in-law's truck (felt like an idiot).
- I spray with an old-school Binks #7 gun and it's a winner. I can't tell you how old it is and it can do wonderful things - sometimes even in my hands. Lots of wasted paint, though.
- You can't spray when you can't see - get as much light as you need. Once knew a guy who painted with a trouble light in one hand and the gun in the other. Sometimes I do this, too.
- It's helpful to have an extra person watch the hose as you spray - it's WAY too easy to flick the hose into the paint.
- Don't worry about painting - blithering idiots and drunks can do it.
Lots of info - hope it helps.
Dan