Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => How To Section => Topic started by: SPARKY on April 06, 2008, 11:25:45 PM
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Wille, Sum, & others---please post on "THINGS" that help you keep it straight!!!!!
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The table is 16' long made of 3/4 partical board, extremely heavy and stiff, supported by 2x8 support beams on 24" center, leveled to within 1/2 degree corner to corner. Chassis rails are placed on 1" square metal tubing, then shimmed to achiece absolute alignment using multiple lazer levels and electronic protractors. Clamp rails together (heavy duty), check dimensions, weld substantial tacks at each joint. Great for home work shop, you can stand up to work and measure. Wasn't my idea, looked like a great idea just copied Sum! Picture is first day of actual construction.
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Bearing in mind that our car is a space frame without a flat bottom we had several challenges to get around.....
when we built our frame we made a six legged( 3mmx30mm sq. tube) jig with longitudinal members( 3mm x 50mm angle) at the vertical midline of the car. at the firewall and rear bulkhead points we had two transverse members. the legs were secured to angle that lay on the floor and was packed to level . The whole thing was welded . we attached the rear bulkhead to the transverse members and then attached the rear roll hoop to the forward cross members and the frontpiece to you guessed it the front of the jig...We could sit the axles on the horizontal members which continued beyond the end of the jig and at any time we could weld braces or struts to hold things in space while they were attached to the car . We had a centerline mark and could project it with a laser .
I think it worked well, it was especially good for banging my head on and the midline bars poking out beyond the end were always handy for getting caught in overall pockets or the unsuspecting "crutch shot" :oops: :oops:
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(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/Jig%20Surface%20Plate-1.jpg)
Well I wish I could take credit for the wood build table, but I can't as I saw a guy building a street rod on one down in Phoenix a number of years ago and the idea stuck around in my head, not many do.
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/Jig%20Surface%20Plate-2.jpg)
Mine is made out of 2X4's and 5/8" wafer board. You want the surface to be thick enough for "grabber screws" to hold in it. These build tables are cheap to build and very flexible to use since you can screw supports into them anywhere. Would have worked fine for your non-flat bottom car Doc.
The other thing is you can achieve a perfectly flat surface to work off of and if you run a line down the middle from end to end you have a consistent center-line to work off of when laying the car out. Also since they are 4 feet wide you can take measurements in from the sides also. I use a carpenter's square to align most of the parts, but..........
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar-2/1-25-8-5%20chute%20drs.jpg)
................. I made an upright that can be pushed up against the side of the table and you can measure in from it at any height above the table you want. It is barely visible in the picture above all the way to the right and back of the coiled extension cord on the floor. The picture also demonstrates how easy it is to extend the table and also how easy it is to screw temporary pieces in place to hold frame members in location prior to welding.
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar-2/12-30-07-t12.jpg)
These wood tables would probably not be a good idea for repeat manufacturing applications, but for a one off build I don't think you can beat them and they are way more versatile than a metal table. When you are done with it unscrew it and save it or whatever.
There is a little more on mine here...........
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/construction%20page-11.html
c ya,
Sum
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These are all fine and well if you're scratch building a frame, but I've been rolling around in my wee little head what I can do, short of building a rotisserie, to work on a unibody car. Granted, an MG Midget tub is light enough that I can flip it over on some bucks with the help of a case of beer, 5 friends and some steaks on the grill. I'll have floor boards to replace, and while I have access, I'll want to run new brake and fuel lines, blast the undercarriage, strengthen a few suspension points and apply a coat of paint. Any thoughts out there?
Chris
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I built a rotisserie with box tubing and some surplus wheels and added an adjustable tube in the middle for different length cars. It kind of looked like a over grown engine stand. I just bolted the cross bars to where the bumpers would bolt and was able to rotate the car with ease. I used it to paint my Boss 302, and several friends have used it for other types of cars. Its just sitting in my garage and if you were out on the west coast you could just haul it to your house. I will try to post a picture of it soon.
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Rotisseries are the go......just be very sure that you choose attachment points that are aligned (?) , that the subframe where it bolts to is sound ( lots aint) and make sure that the vehicle isn't to far off it's center of gravity in the vertical plane or it will be difficult to turn and can "get away " from you...
over engineering is the ticket with a rotisserie and think out your method of locking off WELL.
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Chris, Buy two engine stands from Harbor Freight, $100 for the pair, adapt head to each end of the car. Midget tub doesn't weigh much more than a sbc.
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Chris, Buy two engine stands from Harbor Freight, $100 for the pair, adapt head to each end of the car. Midget tub doesn't weigh much more than a sbc.
I loved this idea, and went right to HF right after work. They had two stands on display.
The problem I saw on both of them was that the rotation collar angles back about 3 to 5 degrees, but it's my guess that by going with larger wheels on the back and some shims under the bolts, I could bring the collar up to horizontal.
The other problem was that the center of the pivot was about 26" from the stabilizing leg, which wouldn't quite give me a full 360 flip, even with a car as narrow as a Spridget. But at 55" wide, it's pretty darned close. Stability remains a question.
But maybe a pair of bigger, wider engine stands, tied together with a cross brace, might be just the ticket.
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.......................But maybe a pair of bigger, wider engine stands, tied together with a cross brace, might be just the ticket.
The tied together cross brace is a good idea. Also you could cut the uprights and weld in an extension. I used an engine stand and something that looked like it when I built my truck and had just the frame on it. Like doc said be real careful the first time you rotate it. The weight in the wrong place and it will take off on you like rotating a block with the heads on, don't ask how I know :cry:.
I'll be making one at some point to rotate my car to finish the welds on the bottom and to help with body assembly.
c ya,
Sum
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Here's my rotisserie. :-D It does in fact, move around the shop when I turn it but, that can be a good thing. It is comprised of two 36" plywood discs and attaching hardware. As far as a table goes, my floor is really quite good and I use LASERs extensively. I pay attention to important attachment points and key features. Wayno
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Here's my rotisserie. :-D It does in fact, move around the shop when I turn it but, that can be a good thing. It is comprised of two 36" plywood discs and attaching hardware. As far as a table goes, my floor is really quite good and I use LASERs extensively. I pay attention to important attachment points and key features. Wayno
Hey Wayno aren't those wheels suppose to be on the sides of the car :evil:. Really a neat Idea, I might have to re-think things a little.
The floor is good since us tax payers paid for it......Wayno lives in a school 8-),
Sum
P.S. I lost your flyer you gave me at El Mirage. PM me some info so I can add it to my links, Sum
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Sum, you're close. The "School" is actually an old church seminary and the floor is in the 40X40 shop I built behind it. Initial mock up was done in one of the two classrooms but now almost everything is out in the shop. I'll get that stuff off to you.
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Revival time........ My rolling fixture is 40 in.x 16ft. and made from 2x4 .187 wall tubing. Along the inside surface I welded 1.5 angle w/ leg facing "up and inward". 1.5 sq. tube cross pcs. cut at 36" drop in flush w/ the top and provide support and a handy place to jig from. Use it daily ( I build 35-40 Ford re-pop frames) Works great. Jerry
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How about a 10' x 10' surface plate?
(http://www.bayshoreindustrialsalesinc.com/_mgxroot/img_1179192148_14949_1201550316_mod_259_171.jpg)
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Has anyone had problems with warpage due to humidity? Don't suppose much of a problem in Utah and
S.Calif. Also any problems with compression of the wooden legs. We used VERY strong sawhorses with a large square tube steel spine and saw dimensional changes over time. How flat and square did your frames come out after welding?
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Has anyone had problems with warpage due to humidity? Don't suppose much of a problem in Utah and
S.Calif. Also any problems with compression of the wooden legs. We used VERY strong sawhorses with a large square tube steel spine and saw dimensional changes over time. How flat and square did your frames come out after welding?
I haven't had any of the problems you mentioned, but it is very dry here. Is my frame perfect? No, but I'm sure it will be just fine. I've also setup a method to string the car..............
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar-2/construction%20page-79.html
.............. on the table and later on the salt if I feel it is needed. As I said before I wouldn't use a wood table for production work, but can't see how it can be beat for a one off car, especially a one off special construction car where you are constantly locating items in space....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar-2/axles-6.jpg)
It doesn't cost much to build one and if you aren't happy do like Dan said and burn it 8-),
Sum