Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Geo on January 13, 2008, 09:16:45 PM
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Hi everyone,
Having owned many different types of cars over the years racing in different types of events and I have returned to the Jaguars I love and after a run at the best concours Jaguar I am moving back to racing. Here is a photo of my JCNA regional class champion, be patient as it may take a moment to load.
<Javascript:openWindow('imageview.php?Vpicurl=http://www.jcna.com/images/library/1760561894595.jpg&Vpost=246&Vref=JCNA',420+170,650+50)>
I have a sister coupe and I will post some photos soon, that I and a friend helping me, will be running in the street class to get my speed license and a feel for the event. I think we can get into the 130 mph club. I need accurate numbers to put into the formulas Sumner has posted, thanks Sum, to determine the HP needed on the motor we are building for 2009. As Poo would say, it will have a Jagular motor not a Hefalump motor.
I feel as if I am a part of the forum due to the lurking I have been doing for the past few months. You gladly share information and jump in to help if needed. I hope to add to the insight and knowledge of LSR as time goes by. While my XJS will not be as radical as the Aussies car, at least to start! I do plan to go fast.
As a newbie I have a few questions. How do you measure height? Does any one have a rule book from the past few years I could get my filthy hands on, well some times they are clean. I have been reading everything on the various websites, lots of fantastic cars and workmanship. I am looking forward to meeting you in August and sharing an English beer.
Well, enough of this fun… It’s back to painting the ceilings!
Geo :roll:
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Geo
While my XJS will not be as radical as the Aussies car, at least to start! I do plan to go fast.
As Poo would say, it will have a Jagular motor not a Hefalump motor.
We'll take that as a compliment! Just to clarify though. The Aussie Shaguar will initially be fitted with a Ford Cleveland (the Heffalump motor) but will eventually find itself back with a Jagular V12. We haven't posted here for a while as we have been posting progress on "our" DLRA website.
http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=377
The car won't be running this year in Australia though as it isn't yet finished - maybe in 08????? Work is still going on though. Once the car is running, work will commence on building up a replacement motor. The replacement is likely to be a 6.0 litre V12 with "flat" heads and lowered comp ratio to work with twin Turbo's/Superchargers. Too early to tell just yet, it may even end up natural??? We've got 3 V12's to play with since 2 spare cars were purchased and the gearbox is most likely a 6 speed overdrive box. Depending on final power output and rev ranges will determine diff ratio
So tell us about your XJS....Year, colour etc. Motor, gearbox, diff????? I can help you with numbers to punch into calculators for the stock XJS they aren't hard to find. Harder to calculate when you factor in a roof chop, massive lowering and aero changes that reduce Cd though.
Have fun with it anyway, they are a nice shape to play with. The rear end looks great with a couple of big tyres under it but the rear guards cause problems if you lower it too intensely........
Lynchy
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It's good to see another aspiring Brit car competitor out there.
A. A. Milne, the Union Jack and a pint of bitter when we're done? Sir Malcolm would be proud.
I'll fire up my Lucas refrigerator and warm up the beer.
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I sort of hate to admit it but i've been thinking of selling my 1971 Falcon and buying a Mini.... I haven't come out to my car buddies yet but I reckon it would be a fun car. I've always had an eye out for a Sunbeam Tiger though, now there's a fun car with a bit of American cred!
A 928 Porsche would also seem to be a good choice as they seem to be almost worthless these days.
Lynchy
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car in question:
(http://www.jcna.com/images/library/1760561894595.jpg)
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Thanks Hotnuts! I just got home and found the photos of the '95 Jade Green convertible show car to resize and post directly. Now I can concentrate on other things. I will post photos of the Black coupe after I take some photos. This weekend seems like good shooting weather... 10 degrees and the possibility of snow. I also have a '76 coupe that will be an everyday driver. Perhaps become the push vehicle.
Lynchy, I am fascinated by the story of the Aussie Jaguar XJS. Love the height! The chop and channel job have been done well. I do wonder if perhaps the cage is to keep Big Gaz safe on those nights with the full moon. When do you think the Shaguar will be a roller? You must be close.
Milwaukee, if you get fire near the Lucas refrig the beer will be too cold! Just let it sit there and all will be well. Be sure it leaks a bit of oil. By the way a true Lucas refig will smoke from the electrics. That may have confused you into thinking it was fired up.
I plan to run the '94 XJS black coupe in street this year to get licensed and into the 130 club (fingers crossed). It will have all the suspension rebuilt and brakes gone through. I have spare subassemblies to work on and then swap into the car. The normal new hoses and fluids one would put on a car just purchased with no prior history. A proper setting of the tune. New tires and a roll cage should make it safe at speed. The factory brochures state 161 mph on premium gas. The most I have seen is 145 at Road Atlanta, GA during a new car ride and drive while I was working at the dealership.
It's a 6.0 V12 with 4 speed auto, 3.54 gear, leather interior and Air Conditioning. Should be cool in the staging lanes. Only room for a few, but you are welcome to sit and chat while staying out of the heat.
Over the winter plans are to build a motor and install a 5 speed manual gearbox. Get some proper LSR tires and wheels. After that who knows. I like the idea of an intake enhanced V12.
But we will see what happens. I have much to learn and many decisions to make as far as classes go. First is safety. Then some speed which, in the second year should get most of the cost out of the way, ha ha. Before we really go crazy! I must remember to dyno it with AC on and with AC off!
All the best, Geo
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Geo
Nice car!
Lynchy, I am fascinated by the story of the Aussie Jaguar XJS. Love the height! The chop and channel job have been done well. I do wonder if perhaps the cage is to keep Big Gaz safe on those nights with the full moon. When do you think the Shaguar will be a roller? You must be close.
The Jag could be a roller very shortly. The rear end is ready to bolt in but the front end is waiting on custom billet hubs. The front hubs had to be custom made as the originals did not allow bigger wheel studs. I heard that they had been completed just the other day and they should arrive very shortly if they haven't already. Once they arrive we will get both the front and rear in and see how she sits with the right wheels and tyres on. Then we can get a driveshaft made up. By the way, if you don't follow the DLRA build site, Gaz was in the right place at the right time and was given a push car.
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i218/falcon351/Bottlemounts.jpg)
It seems right to use a Range Rover as a push car doesn't it? You can also see the 2 parts cars next to the RR - nice colour! Notice the unusual number of dooors on the Rangey? Should end up a good crew vehicle. I willl be posting more info as it happpens, there's not a lot going on at the moment though.
Lynchy
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Geo, the pic did not need to be resized.
If a pic starts with "http://" all you need to do is click the insert image button and paste the pic address in between the {img}{/img} brackets.
;)
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I'm finally getting the hang of posting here. So finally a few photos today after the snow melted off the tarp. We are building new suspension sub-frames inside where it's warm. We've managed to keep her ladyship upstairs so she would not see the mess.. um, engineering work. This leaves the car mobile except for the day it will take to switch them out. You never know when you might have to run to the store for a beer resupply. And will be sending the car off to the paint shop for a stripe! I hear one will add 5 mph!
As soon as the weather warms to "no shiver without heavy coat" we will be installing a roll cage. I did look at the interior and find there is not going to be as much shoulder room as I would like. Your thoughts on what is good placement for the vertical down bars on the hoop next to your shoulder, measured from your shoulder. Are bends allowed in the front down tubes?
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Geo
Our down bars are placed just behind the "B" pillar:
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i218/falcon351/Interiortubs.jpg)
The front legs attach to the centre hoop and have a bend near the "A" pillar and then go straight to the floor. There is a fair amount of bracing that is built in as well though. We are using the standard steering column but it will be slightly offset to the left (remember RH Drive in Aussie) to allow some hand-in-glove room with the front down tube.
Shoulder wise there is no problem, we are positioning our seat where we want it but we lose some room with the much taller and slightly wider trans tunnel. Gary and I are both pretty big (I'm 6'4" and 110kgs) and we both fit OK and can still get in and out without too many problems - getting out is easier, although less elegant, than in.
I'll be heading over to the car this weekend, so might have some new pics soon. I've been told the front hubs have arrived and so it might be possible to put some wheels on.....
Lynchy
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In the spirit of all things British that have been posted recently I have an update on the Jag. For months we have been gathering bits and reading the rule book and comments posted as we dive in.
Once again the thunder storms have knocked out power for the evening stopping work. Good thing I have a UPS on the computer. If it rains any more I will expect to see the animals going by two by two. Come to think of it there are two Jaguars in the driveway now!
We have removed the interior except for the dash and door panels along with items not needed like wipers, washers, etc. Man, the stack of removed parts is rather large! We have filled all the holes in the firewalls. They are welded up and the roll bar is next. Suspension work has begun and a check on the drive train is next. Next week it's off to paint. I'm finally seeing the check list getting shorter rather than longer. Pictures after paint!
Anyone have a source for a large window type net to go in the door opening?
Geo
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geo
DJ SAFETY built ours, we made a pattern of the door opening and sent it to him but we didnt mark the top and the information was written parallel to the front. When it arrived " very promply" it didn't fit. He made a new one at no extra charge and no prompting from us. Great guy.
www.djsafety.com
JL222
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Geo,
If you need another pair of hands, give me a call. But I seem to have misplaced my Whitworth tools. Also have a collection of Lucas smoke....
Sam
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Geo,
If you need another pair of hands, give me a call. But I seem to have misplaced my Whitworth tools. Also have a collection of Lucas smoke....
Sam
brings to mind the scene in the life of Brian..."are they wagging me"....
Once again the thunder storms have knocked out power for the evening stopping work. Good thing I have a UPS on the computer. If it rains any more I will expect to see the animals going by two by two. Come to think of it there are two Jaguars in the driveway now!
....I'd be looking less at the weather and more at the possibility that something has crawled or leaked out of that Jag and spooked the electricity in your house.
.....now, despite my levity and all else that would make you people think that I don't like Ol' William Lyons' cars I do have a soft spot for them...and as Lynchy and Gary have shown you can make a seriously hell-lookin' salt purpose XJS....Go for it Geo am watching with interest.
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I had an '85 XJS for a number of years and loved it-- quiet, smooth, and comfortable-- a perfect high- speed cruiser and a nice body style. That V12 is like an electric motor. Actually the XJS automatic transmission is a GM automatic that responds to the usual hot rodding tricks. There are a few companies that make Chevy conversion kits; even a big block Chevy fits without butchering. A friend here in Tucson has an XJs with a SBC and he is pleased with it.
Some time ago I was in the UK on business and happened to be at a company a few doors down from Lister. On a whim I walked over and introduced myself; even though it was after hours they showed me around their shop and couldn't have been nicer. They even showed me an incomplete car (stored upstairs under a cover) that they said was an LSR project. I wonder what ever happened to it? They speciallized in installing a bored & stroked Jag V12 in an XJS. Good luck with your project
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Thanks for the door net contact JL222! I will call DJ Safety.
Sam, thanks for the offer of a helping hand. I just made a list of things yet to do. Yikes! And only 62 days! I'll PM you.
Geo.
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I sent an email to the Tech Committee and have not received a reply so I am asking for your thoughts on the roll cage. I had a epiphany, with out drinking by the way, about making a dual hoop cage for the coupe. I am about to commit to metal and would not want to make a technical foopah. Yes, we sometimes have to work outside and that is not an oak tree in the background, but it is a shade tree.
We have placed the race seat in the car and added more tubes to the mockup since the photos to find out how easy it will be to exit. Not easy at all! Ejector seat needed and the roof flap will need to be a bit larger! Removable steering wheel added to the list. Grab handles added to the list. Reduce the size of breakfast and dinner added to the list. My wife has started an exercise routine for me, bless her!
This has been very interesting to go from the thought of "there is going to be plenty of room even though it's a medium sized interior, to, Wow! this is going to be tighter than I thought for some components. Mind you it's not a streamliner however once you start to check elbow and head room with the added bars the interior shrinks! Your comments appreciated!
June 14, 2008
Dear Technical Committee Cars,
Mr. Lee Kennedy and Mr. Alan Fogliadini, my name on Landracing.com is Geo and I have been reading the posts for about a year and have read the 2008 rule book some 30 times. I think I am beginning to understand things. However I need your advice on one item as follows for car number 1081 as shown on the entry list for Speed Week 2008.
I am building the roll cage and with the rear hoop well behind the “B” post on my coupe I would like to add another hoop at the “B” post giving us the ability to have head protection and support similar to the streamliner and roadster “funny car type” cage as shown in fig.4 on page 26 of the 2008 rule book. We will also have the forward legs at the “A” post giving six legs to the cage, instead of four legs as shown for a coupe in fig. 1 on page 25. A seventh support will be vertical from the floor near the center of the car to the middle hoop for the inboard head protection attachment point, forward end. And we will have two rearward support braces from the rear hoop to the frame by the rear wheels.
My thoughts are to use the area at the rear of the door opening for added protection without hindering the ability to exit the car. Rather than extending minimally supported arms from the rear hoop to support head side restraints “helmet-retaining strap” I would like to build a box for the head, neck and shoulders that will have the head side restraints “helmet-retaining strap” supported front and rear on the two hoops.
I have attached a drawing of the basic structure and photos of the mockup we are constructing. Please note the factory seat in the photo will be replaced with a metal racing seat allowing the driver to be lower.
Thank you for your work with SCTA-BNI allowing us to safely partake in speed trials.
Best regards,
Geoffrey Green
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Hope you have better luck getting a useful answer than I did.
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Time for an update :-D
As this morning I have computer time, as opposed to racecar time, you know which comes first; I will bring everyone up to date. Mind you the post time does not correspond to actual build time. I am way behind letting you know where I actually am with the build. So here goes...
The white paint was on and dry when my brother came to visit, vacation for him, so I did what any good host would do, I put him to work on the car! :evil: He’s a gear head too and helped immensely. Thank you bro! We added the checkerboard stripes and installed the chrome. I have always wanted a car with racing stripes and finally I have one. Now the neighbors are commenting on the beautiful car in the driveway. :-D Seems the neighbors are weirder than I thought. :lol:
The interior has been stripped and the sketches made for mounting weights and safety equipment. The door lock has been de-activated. The inside work can now begin. That’s for the next post.
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geo---you have more tubes than required in the rule book--2 main hoops rarher than 1 --the only thing i dont see is a diagonal tube in the roof --very important it turns squares into triangles much stronger and required in a strong rollcage just some thoughts willie buchta
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Willie, your thoughts are always welcome. As are anyone’s. Thanks for looking, thinking about what I am doing and posting your ideas. You are correct about making triangles in the cage and I do plan on having diagonal bars, yet they would have cluttered the sketch of what I am doing. Glad you brought this point up so everyone who visits this build is aware of the correct way to build a cage. But, the cart is before the horse. In trying out the tubing I noticed the rear interior panels might not be easily removed once the rear hoop was in. So, I worked on the interior rear panels.
Sumner, I have watched your build from day one and picked up a few great tricks. One is to make a pattern, or in my case four before the last semi ridged one fit well. From that I hand cut the aluminum and hand filed the edges to radius corners and remove any sharp edges. Then I borrowed my daughters swing set to use as a sheet metal brake. I am only bending 4 panels with two bends per panel so I could not justify buying and storing an actual sheet metal brake. I am happy with the final fit and I had fun making them. You can see from the photo above, of the plastic trial cage, what the panels cover.
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Installed are the pads for the roll cage and the mounting rails for the weights and safety items on the passenger side and the seats and belts on the driver’s side. The pieces closest to the interior skin of the car need to go in first and then you work your way to the center of the car.
The rails along the floor sides will allow 2 inch square tubes to be bolted in filled with weight or as mounts for the fire bottles, cooling tanks, electronics, etc. The square tubes will form a secondary floor and another row of tubes can be reversed and bolted above them, back to back. Flat plates can be bolted in and moved as needed. The location of the weight tubes is 1.5 inches below the centerline of the axles.
The engine and electronics are factory for now. This will change with the first race engine install and most of the wiring you see will be removed.
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I installed the interior panels and covered them with cardboard for protection when welding before the roll bar tubes go in along with protecting the plastic film window tint from welding sparks. The only way the interior panels will come out is if you bend them severely out of shape. Good thing there is nothing behind them.
There are twin hoops from one side of the car to the other spaced about 11 inches apart. From these there will be two center risers that mirror the left outer risers creating two narrower hoops around the driver using the left side body width hoop risers and center risers. These hoops will be tied together in a ladder structure with the horizontal bars serving as (1) mounts for the foam pads surrounding the drivers head located at the lower jaw and temple on both sides and two above the head and (2) tying the shoulder seat belt bar to the door opening diagonal bar along with the roof fore aft bar on the right side this will be done with a head bar also serving as a roof side bar on the left side.
The photo shows some of the nine horizontal bars are in place along with the rear hoop center riser on either side of the rear hoop diagonal. The horizontal bars are close to correct position. The lowest is the shoulder then jaw then temple then roof side/head and another head. The inside ladder will have the temple and jaw. The rear shoulder seat belt and some diagonals are not in place. I do not have enough magnets to hold it all together for a trial fit however enough horizontal bars were tried to make sure we could assemble as required with some horizontal tubes left loose for the diagonal tube end fitting/length trimming and placement in the cage before dropping and welding a horizontal cap on the roll cage box/triangle section.
It will be a tack weld as you go until we have most of these in and then the remaining rear bars will go in followed then by the side roof and front bars that will go in after my brain clears from fitting this jumble. I have a sketch on paper showing the build sequence yet it still causes mental strain to keep everyone following the sequence so we do not screw up!
Good thing my wife has not seen the tool bill for things I did not have on hand to install the roll cage. It has been fun roaming the tool stores around town! Looks like I will be rearranging the shop this winter. Good thing I have had years of practice and training by my wife on the living area furniture shifting.
Geo
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Wow,
Geo looks like a very cool build..
J
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Thanks John.
These photos are slightly out of order and should have come before the above posting showing the side padding support bar horizontal tubes.
Here I am sitting in the car to show how the horizontal roll bars will relate to the human body. Handsome fellow I am. javascript:void(0); Along the lines of Dr. Goggles, eh? Mind you I am not sitting up straight because my back hurts and the seat is not mounted and is rocking slightly towards the door. Yet I am still breathing so I can still work on the car!
It is surprising how the enormous interior is filled by seemingly thin or small components. A helmet seems thin, a racing seat seems thin, clothing is not too thick. Besides we removed the thick stuff; carpet, padding, comfy seat, headliner. But even though the roll bar is as close to the roof as we thought we could get and have welding room, when you place the seat on the bare steel floor and then you sit in the car with the helmet on there is just room for padding above the head. The sides are not going to be a problem with miles of room.
At the top of the roll bar the “H” designates the center line of the head. The “E” on the side is the center line of the ear. The “SB” is the shoulder belt bar location. The plain white tape locates the horizontal bars that will hold the padding to limit head movement.
This is what I envisioned the driver’s area would look like when finished with this picture from ISP.
http://www.ispseats.com/id102.html
A double hoop with three padded areas to limit head movement. I have talked to Innovative Safety Products as I have constructed the roll cage. The pads have SFI 45.2 specification label tags.
I am still working on a design for a grab handle or two placed on the roof diagonal, side and or windshield header bar to ease getting out of the car. Ideas would be greatly appreciated. Pulling heavy butts out of the deep racing seat is going to be tough. javascript:void(0); Perhaps an Aston Martin DB5 ejector seat is needed. Please don’t tell me to drink light beer, it’s not going to happen!
Geo
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WOW! What happened to the time!
Well I missed my "have available time to build" window due to college graduation and a real job, health, children's school, yes there's more. And then the decision to stay where we are rather than move. I went looking for a welder to finish the cage. I could not find one who was not outrageous in price or was unable to weld! So I decided if hundreds of others could weld then so could I. Which meant home upgrade. Install new 220v service from the pole to the house, rewire the house and remodel the garage. The whole wall in the photo was replaced and you can see the new electrical panel.
So, I found a welder. A nice machine, not a person. Then came a year of learning to weld, as I only had spare time and not much of that. A few sculptures. A couple of projects - pictured is the nut and bolt rotating rack holding 88 jars.
Geo
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Finally I felt good enough to weld on the car. Almost a spool of wire and a bottle of gas with advise from welders and people at the welding supply store. I wanted to add a cage that would make a small compartment for the drive in addition to the regular cage. This would allow head support panels to be mounted. You will see as we go along.
The inner tube was not the structural tube co it was cut and placed around the diagonal structural tube. I wondered how to get the two pieces lined up and then read about using a piece of angle with a notch to place the tubes in correct orientation. Well in looking around the garage I had angle, but what size. IN thinking this through I realized holding a corner of the angle against the round tube would not make a steady clamping point for the vise grips. So I cut a piece of Electrical Strut Support. The channel holds the tube and the flat surface gives one steady clamping point opposite the round tube. I cut it halfway through and folded the center together to allow room for the diagonal brace tube to pass by this holder.
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OK, that was the hard one. The rest went together well. I welded the top joint of the cage before placing it together. There are a couple of places I will finish the weld on when I remove the side windows. And a few more bars to add in the spring when the weather warms up. I am not allowed to weld in the house! :oops:
I have found welding from underneath is the hardest. And ou will get a good burn when a small ball of metal drops into your shoe. :-o Wow, it's getting harder to find a way to hold your body and see to make a weld. Elementary school jungle jim play ground practice is coming back. :-D
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After welding I cleaned the tubes for a Winter Storage paint coating. I cleaned the tube, weld and car. There are side tubes at the shoulder that will be set after the seat is in and the height is determined. A couple of diagionals and some brackets.
A big thanks to Willie for his help in my taking this step! :cheers:
Geo
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For those looking at this for ideas on building a cage. I suggest looking at many examples. I also received a copy of the factory build sheets for the body to find the best places to mount the cage.
Geo
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Geo!
I gotta wake up - must be bad timing or my lack of awareness my part - I missed the updates - but you're on your way. This is progress! If you took a welding lesson from Willie, you'll have no troubles.
Another bookmark from the build diaries of Landracing.com.
Go, cat, go!
Chris
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Nice job Geo. Your tubing fits are really nice. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Just a hint when you're doing your jungle gym act. Put in ear plugs. There's nothing like a little bit of weld spatter bouncing around on your ear drum while your head bounces off various tubes as you try to escape. Most of us who have welded for any length of time have experienced the effect. :-o :-o :-o
Pete
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Thanks Peter Jack.
Tube fitment is only part of the equation. Some recent threads about roll cages reminded me of the placement of tubes. A good thread started by Willie is located: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4846.0.html
Heading is: material tubing thickness
One other part of the equation is the joint angle meeting point as shown in this photo.
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Very cool build!
It's looking good- I can't wait for the updates! Good luck.