Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: birdmanf16 on December 29, 2007, 05:24:52 PM
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Well....here goes....I'm turning a perfectly good car into a race car! My goal is to hit 200.000001 mph with the Goat, not break any class records. I've read the 07 rule book, but being a dumb fighter pilot, I could use some assistance in interpretation. :? As most already know, the Goat comes stock with a 400hp LS2 motor and a Tremec 6 speed transmission. I've done some research and I've come up with a plan of attack for an attempt at the 200mph red hat. I've calculated the hp required for the car to be in the 560rwhp range for a c/d of .31 and the front surface area. The gearing for the car allows for a theoretical top speed of about 230mph. I'm looking at about 5300rpm at 200mph. Here is what I've done to the car so far and please chime in with any advice to keep me heading in the right direction!
1. Motor: Stock bottom end LS2 with the following power adders: S+ cam from HPE (4000-6500rpm peak power cam), ported throttle body, ported intake, stage 3 ported stock 243 heads, high volume oil pump, high pressure fuel pump, CAI, double roller timing chain. Tuned it will should yield 460rwhp. I also have a 150 wet shot of nitrous with all the safety parts which will bring me over 600rwhp. The problem here is that I can only safely use the NO2 for up to 15 seconds....so when is the best time to use it? Any inputs/techniques on this problem would be appreciated!
2. Suspension: Pedders Track II with 1" lowering in front and 1/2" in the back. This is an Aussie after market suspension that feels real good. I track the car regularly and it performs about as well as a stock C5/C6 vette. This suspension was used by MTI for the 1 mile shootout 2 years ago with the MTI GTO, Ligenfelter Vette and Hennessey Viper. The MTI GTO hit 195mph in the mile but had to shut down early due to a turbo problem. Driver said car felt solid at 195mph.
3. Body mods: Only thing different than stock will be a JHP lip spoiler that will generate some down force to keep the ass end down at high speed and to delete the drag of the crappy plastic stock spoiler.
4. Tires: I'm planning on 245/40 ZR17 (99Y) Michelin pilot sport cup comp tires 186mph+ and tested to over 200mph.
5. Roll cage and roof rail gets put in on 6 Feb.
6. Kirky 17" series 47 racing seats with right and left side aluminum head supports attached, 5 point harness with arm and leg restraints.
7. Fuel cell with roll over shutoff and kill switch
8. Drive shaft loops
9. Fire suppression for interior and motor
10. parachute and mounts
11. Metal valve on tires
12. After market slotted brake rotors, racing pads, and ss brake lines.
13. All the approved safety gear....harness, suit, helmet etc.
Here are some questions for you experienced guys....
1. What class do I need to build the car for....always a good first question!
2. Do I need a modified firewall?
3. Do I need a break away steering wheel?
4. Do I need 1" lugs?
5. Can I run on the stock wheels if they are reinforced by welding?
6. Is the Nitrous a bad idea because of the "fuels" class vs. gasoline?
7. Can I leave the dash and door panels in the car?
I suppose a lot of these questions will be answered when I know for sure what class to build for....Thanks!
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Hey Birdman
It may be a Goat to you fellas but that's what we call a Monaro over here in Oz as the body was a local GM Holden design done I think by a guy called Simcoe....great to see you taking it to that level. You only get a Red Hat if you break an existing record OVER 200mph , I'm not sure what the mark is in your class but I'd guess it would be way over 2 by now....
I'll leave the rest of your q's to the better informed......
top work , keep us up to date....
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Yeah, great job by Holden on the Monaro....I love this car. Best GM product I've ever owned and I can't wait for the G8! Thanks for the red hat info....did not know that. I'll have to settle for the satisfaction of having one of the fastest GTO/Monaro's around (with the LS2!).
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Here are some questions for you experienced guys....
1. What class do I need to build the car for....always a good first question!
2. Do I need a modified firewall?
3. Do I need a break away steering wheel?
4. Do I need 1" lugs?
5. Can I run on the stock wheels if they are reinforced by welding?
6. Is the Nitrous a bad idea because of the "fuels" class vs. gasoline?
7. Can I leave the dash and door panels in the car?
Not really experienced but:
1. the car can be ALT or PRO
2. The firewall needs to be sealed, fire puddy any holes.
3. No
4. Depends on wheel size...bigger is better and there cheap.
5. Yes
6. apples and oranges
7. Yes
Ive been wrong before and someone will say something here is wrong Im sure!
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To get a RED HAT requires you set a record, not just go over 200.001 mph. :-D
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You guys from OZ will be tickled to know that there's a regular (record holding) Landracing competitor here in So Cal- the North Eastern part of OUR state ( Ausifornia or Califstralia ) - that has added as much Holden Monaro trim as he could find on his GTO-
I've driven it- GREAT CAR!
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...Mr Turk will attest to this ...here...we call a Camaro a , wait for it , C'm- R -Oh , where the middle bit sounds like "Ahhhhhhh".......whereas to you guys it's a Cam-air-oh......likewise it's M'n-R-oh when you say Monaro here
I just know you blokes are saying " bull-F#@&*%ing s&*% , that's Moh-Nair-Oh!"..........
I have a '73 ( mine is often referred to as a "Nomaro" because it's a 4 door)and the good Colonel has a somewhat valuable '67
what you say SSS?.................
btw Jack , a septic just one( er I think I mean "won" ...came oneth) the Sydney to Hobart in a tub called "Rosebud" , and no he wouldn't elaborate on the origin of the name......... :roll:
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Dr. you have a good ear for yer OZ lingo- woulda thought you couldn't have heard it.
Talking of US pronunciations- there's places here, like West Virginia, Alabama, for instance, especially out of the cities, and IN metropolitan New York/New Jersey that folks speech would be hard for a native Californian like yers truly to understand!
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Whaddayamean linguine-oh , Gedouda here! :-D
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Any thoughts on the nitrous....I'm thinking about sending the kit back from some of the reading I've been doing. Sorry about the red hat goal.....seems to be a touchy subject. :-D
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What class would I fall in without the nitrous? Thanks!
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What class would I fall in without the nitrous? Thanks
There are timed classes you can run in most categories:
GAS
FUEL
BLOWN GAS
BLOWN FUEL
The lack of No2 does not make the car gas, this is when you use any one of several supplied event fuels and nothing else.
If you run No2, nitro, alkey or your own magical blend this will put you in the fuel class.
If your motor is 364ci this will put you in C engine class (C= 306-373ci).
I am not sure but I think the car can run in Comp coupe as well.
Get a rule book if you don’t already and see what records you think you have the money and skills to beat.
The car you have chosen is not a bad choice; it can be made to get you your hat.
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Thanks for the input! I've read the rule book a couple of times....but it looks like I need to really study this thing to figure it out. I can understand this quote: "If you run No2, nitro, alkey or your own magical blend this will put you in the fuel class".....if I run No2 I'm a fuels guy, blown or not....easy. But this one leaves me saying huh? "The lack of No2 does not make the car gas, this is when you use any one of several supplied event fuels and nothing else." If I show up with my car and it is not No2 and I have a full tank of Shell 92 octane, I'm still a fuel guy? I suppose you have to use fuel supplied at the event to be a gas car to prevent guys from mixing fuel and cheating? Sorry about my newbie questions....
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The red hat (that is, 200 MPH Club) subject isn't a "touchy" one -- as much as a commonly misunderstood subject by those new to (or outside of) land speed racing. I'm forever explaining to folks the "not just go 200, but set a record over 200" story.
To qualify for membership in any of the 2 Clubs the racer must break an existing record over 200 mph, set a new record over 200 (assuming there wasn't one before now), or exceed the established minimum (if there is one) set by the 200 MPH Club that he is trying to enter. For the Bonneville 200 MPH Club you can see the records/minimums by going to their site - www.bonneville200mph.org I think. I note that the site is getting a freshening over the next few days, so be patient if you can't bring it up and into focus right this very moment.
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The lack of No2 does not make the car gas, this is when you use any one of several supplied event fuels and nothing else." If I show up with my car and it is not No2 and I have a full tank of Shell 92 octane, I'm still a fuel guy? I suppose you have to use fuel supplied at the event to be a gas car to prevent guys from mixing fuel and cheating? Sorry about my newbie questions
No worries about the questions, better to ask then to not know.
To be in the gas class you must run any of the ERC racing fuels (they bring about 8 I think) and nothing else.
They will inspect your tank, add the fuel and put a seal on it.
Now you are in gas class providing you don’t have any other method of inducing anything else in the fuel system (methanol for instance in a water injection system, No2 or anything else).
No No2 and Shell 92 WILL put you in fuel class, even though it is not a good as the supplied fuels there is no way of sight testing the 92 to see if it was not a nuclear blend of explosive compounds.
Basically if you want to run gas, you will use the event gas.
If you want to run in the Fuel class run what you bring.
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If you are not planning to run for a record you can run your Shell 92 in the gas class. Good luck. Read the rule book 50 times then do it again. Vince
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Dave Wolin ran a factory sponsored GTO and got some class records (as far as I understand it - thats what the stickers say on the car - but you know how the manufacturers make up their own classes to suit their marketing strategy)
Anyway he ran the same car at the SandHills open road race - a bunch of the silver state stuff as well as bigbend with the yellow goat.
Heres a link to photos and info.
http://www.davewolin.com/gallery.htm
Last I talked with Dave he was putting the GTO up for sale after this years (2007) SandHills race. He is a nice guy and can give you ther details about what they did to prep the car - I think it only went 152 or 156 at Bonneville - but he ought to be a good source of information to you!
Carl Johansson
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Got it....that makes sense! :-D
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Thanks Carl....great point of contact. I'll give him a call.
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Adding the spoiler will kick you out of Production (and thru Gas) up to Gas Altered. the C/Gas Altered record is 233+. So, see Rule 2G for wheel information. You have to build for the class record (or nearest class record) even for Time Only. And I think welding the stock alloys isn't covered.
I have a 2004 and it's the only car I always look forward to driving.
And as JD says, good luck!
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Holden Monaro info from Wikipedia (not a bad write-up)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Monaro
Sorry Birdman, we're on a tangent to your questions. Despite religious leanings to the Ford way, national pride can't be ignored. Good luck with the build, and keep us informed, there's genuine interest down here.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/Hkmonaro.jpg)
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can't help myself ....this runs C/pro in the DLRA.....it's a '68
(http://photobucket.com/albums/y108/dlra2/speedtrials2006-009.jpg)
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Got my push rods, double roller timing chain, fuel pump, and oil pump today.....heads and cam are enroute. Should get all in within 2 weeks and get a dyno tune....still debating about the nitrous. Probably go N/A and give it shot this year knowing I won't hit 200mph with the 460 rwhp, but at least I can get the car up to Tech speed and learn the ropes a bit before trying in 09 with more hp.
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Got my push rods, double roller timing chain, fuel pump, and oil pump today.....heads and cam are enroute. Should get all in within 2 weeks and get a dyno tune....still debating about the nitrous. Probably go N/A and give it shot this year knowing I won't hit 200mph with the 460 rwhp, but at least I can get the car up to Tech speed and learn the ropes a bit before trying in 09 with more hp.
One thing is once you get a speed and know your HP it will be easier to predict how much HP you will need to go faster. At least you will know well enough to take an educated guess anyway,
Sum