Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: frogpirate on December 21, 2007, 12:49:25 PM
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Well, I finally scored a 'donor' bike so I can start building our LSR Bike. Class will be 600cc M-PBG to start with, then we may move on to MPS-, A- , APS- over the next few years, hopefully using the same motor. The plan is to add fuel injection utilizing a MegaSquirt ECM, possibly a Buell XB Throttle body, and various GM sensors, then to add a turbo, and finally to stretch the rear swingarm about 5" (keeping it to class allowence of 10%).
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Blast1.jpg)
As you can see, it is a relativly stock '01 Buell Blast, complete with VERY LOUD bodged exhaust, and genuine Buell touring screen. I'm thinking that screen is going to have to go!
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Blast4.jpg)
Yeah, it's LOUD. At least that's what my wife said when I fired it up in the garage after getting it home last night! I'm going to look for a stock pipe to put on so I can ride it while we are sorting out the EFI.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Blast5.jpg)
If the Blast doesn't work out, I can always steal my wife's EX250. Right Jon? :-)
More to come as we make progress. I hope to be able to make BUB in '08.
Ken
OBScene Racing
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ummm Ken... if you use the spell check function you will see the correct spelling is "be-last"...LOL
kent
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frog nice bike --that is B-LAST --i have some xb9 injection parts --let me know if you need anything willie buchta
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Hoho, Kent you are a card!
Willie - thanks. Do you happen to have a throttle body you'd part with?
I just took it for a spin around the block - boy is it LOUD. The kids at the local grade school liked it though. :evil:
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yea i have a unit from a 03 xb9 you are welcome to it willie buchta
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I always thought Kent was a large rodent with big balls
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Hurray for Ken!
Many people dream of doing a project.
Many people say they are going to do a project…..with good intentions but for what ever reason it doesn’t happen.
But few actually do it.
I had a feeling that you were not just a talker.
Welcome to the club.
Great looking donor.
BTW:
Get prepared to kiss your wallet goodbye!
-JH
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Hey I resemble that!
Kent
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If you are looking for a better ECU then Megasquirt, I have a Haltech E11V2, box just came back from Haltech, and is in perfect working order.
Lots of data logging, lots of inputs and outputs, Fuel and Ignition control....
PM me Ill give you a great price on it, ready to ship.
Jon
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ok where is that update or you haveing to much fun riding --we took sheris blast to el mirage it ran 85 mph it was totally stock --would have went faster but it was up against the rev limiter will mail inj tomorrow willie buchta
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I managed to get my stock blast to 97mph at maxton. I planned to do a project out of it but decided I needed more then another 20mph so I bought a busa! :-o I still have an '07 blast stocker for a pit bike and commuter when the busa is in race trim. It really is a fun bike in traffic! Very flickable! :-D
Good luck with your project, can't wait to watch it happen!
Deb
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uh, um, well I haven't gotten much done over the holidays. There was a paper-work mix up that I wanted to get cleared up before I got too far into this (now resolved - the bike has been titled in my name). I know it's probably not that important for a race bike, but it makes me feel better. I want to be able to test the FI system on the street before we modify the rest of the bike too much.
And then, I got a little side-tracked:
http://www.candyassllamas.com/oh-no (http://www.candyassllamas.com/oh-no)
I'm gathering stuff for the F.I. conversion now. Ron Pavlack (Chalkdust) was kind enough to send me a turbo to try out, but I think it's going to be too large, so I'll be sending it back to Ron. I think it has roughly the same displacement as his CB160. :-)
Ken
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The first project I want to do is to change from carburated to EFI. There is a nice package tray under the seat that is a great place to put the MegaSquirt ECU, power relay's and fuses. Unfortunatly, it is plastic and attached the the rear 'fender'. If we ever (heaven forbid) crash and want to replace the plastic, we'd have to remove all the EFI wiring first.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Underseat%20Tray007_small.jpg)
I decided to make a new underseat tray out of sheet metal, and seperate it from the rest of the rear fender. First, I made a sketch of what I wanted.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/scan0001.gif)
I'm a big believer in mocking things up before commiting them to final material. In this case, poster board was the material of choice. In take one, I found out that the seat latch was in the way, or my tray was just a little too long!
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Underseat%20Tray008_small.jpg)
Whoops, won't quite sit down.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Underseat%20Tray009_small.jpg)
There is that pesky little latch. Sure glad this is made of easy to change poster board!I shortened the tray by 3/4" and tried it again. Since I can shorten this with a rotary cutter and a bit of tape, it took all of 5 minutes to make this change.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Underseat%20Tray001_small.jpg)
That's better, it sits flush now.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Underseat%20Tray004_small.jpg)
And now it clears the latch, and I can operate it to unlatch the seat. Once the tray sat down OK, I folded the flaps over to go around the sub-frame tubing. Originally, I had planned on welding these tabs to the sub-frame, but now I don't think that is necessary. As you can see, it lines up with bolt holes in the back and front so it will be held in place with the same hardware as the rest of the rear fender.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Underseat%20Tray002_small.jpg)(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Underseat%20Tray003_small.jpg)
Finally, I had to cut away the old undertail from the rear fender. What I needed was a cut-off saw; what I had was a Dremel with a 1/8" drill bit. 247 holes later, and a little sawing with a Xacto saw and I had a very rough hole. A little trimming with a utility knife, files, and finally coarse sandpaper and it's not so bad.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Underseat%20Tray005_small.jpg)
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Underseat%20Tray006_small.jpg)
I still have to transfer this to sheet metal. I may just find a local tin shop to bend this up as I don't have a sheer or a brake. At least I can hand them a full size ready to go pattern!
Ken
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why dont you buy what we call a hand knife and have a go yourself even if you cut the blank and dont bend it yourself it will save you money in the long run,All the metal work on my bike was done with a hand knife and a cheep nasty 24"hand bender some of it you wont be able to do because of limitations with the equipment but its good fun trying and when you do manage to do it its all your own work.and thats priceless.
All the best and good luck Oz
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc215/ozcoatswith/tools.jpg)
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I've bent up a lot of stuff like that on the edge of the work bench. Just clamp between two pieces of metal and hammer it up in steps with a body hammer. It can come out quite good looking. Make it with 20 gauge steel and you can cut that with cheap hand tin snips and it will be plenty tough.
Looks good though,
Sum
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I've tried a lot of different ways to form sheet metal in the past, with some success, and a lot of cursing. What hampers me is that I *know* how easy this would be to form with a pan break and a sheer, and how difficult it is to do with make-shift stuff around the shop. My usual bending rig is a piece of 2" angle iron, a couple of "C" clamps and a rubber mallet. It works, albiet a bit crudely. This kind of goes back to Willie & Kent's conversation about brackets. Spend $2 to buy them, or an hour to make them? I do LIKE making stuff, but I also realize that sometimes it's cheeper in the long run for me to pay a professional to do it for me. (By the way, this pretty much goes against how I've done things most of my life!) Time is an issue for me as well; I work 40+ hours a week, with a 2 hour a day commute. I'm not as young as I once was, and find working in the shop until midnight then going to work is not really an option, besides wich the garage is right next to the bedroom and Lisa would kill me if I were out there until midnight every night! :roll:
Ken
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I've tried a lot of different ways to form sheet metal in the past, with some success, and a lot of cursing. What hampers me is that I *know* how easy this would be to form with a pan break and a sheer, and how difficult it is to do with make-shift stuff around the shop. My usual bending rig is a piece of 2" angle iron, a couple of "C" clamps and a rubber mallet. It works, albeit a bit crudely. This kind of goes back to Willie & Kent's conversation about brackets. Spend $2 to buy them, or an hour to make them? I do LIKE making stuff, but I also realize that sometimes it's cheaper in the long run for me to pay a professional to do it for me. (By the way, this pretty much goes against how I've done things most of my life!) Time is an issue for me as well; I work 40+ hours a week, with a 2 hour a day commute. I'm not as young as I once was, and find working in the shop until midnight then going to work is not really an option, besides which the garage is right next to the bedroom and Lisa would kill me if I were out there until midnight every night! :roll:Ken
....such is the lot of the "back-yard" LSR guy , put perfectly. When you're not "loaded" and your job ain't in the field you are often between a rock and a hard place.By the time you have worked out exactly what you require for the part , you've built it and sending jobs out can be very time consuming unless they are guaranteed perfect , fat chance of that happening.
Noise is a problem too :oops:
when you are running the bike and others are checking it out and ask why you did this or that you will be able to say..." when I was making that" , "the reason I did that" and " I'm going to use that until the good one gets back from the polishers"( thanks for that one Jack :wink:) and they will know you are the man , not just a passenger , or purchaser .
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frog is your parrern accurate that you posted if it isnt post one that is and watch brackets and other fun stuff then in about three days go stand by the mail box willie buchta
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That one is a little off Willie; I had to shorten the straight section from 3" to 2 1/4". I dropped the corrected developed pattern off at a local sheet metal shop (Schmeer Sheet Metal Works) at lunch today. Guess what? The person that helped me (Cedrick Meeks) Dad is a LSR racer! I think he said he races a Ford T with a Gimmy 6 cyl engine.
Thank you for the offer though!
Ken
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Ah! Russ Meeks. http://www.finishlinecoatings.com/ (http://www.finishlinecoatings.com/)
He'll be coating my headers (and punch any louvers that I need).
Mike
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Hey this has been a good day! Now I know who to go to for 'header' coatings. Can you call a one cylinder pipe a "header". :? Anyway, I love it when I can get what I need and support a fellow racer.
Ken
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The rules require a strap hold down on the battery. The Buell Blast battery is mounted a bit different that most in that it is laying on it's "back" under the seat. OEM just uses a rubber baby buggy bumper on the bottom of the seat to hold the battery in place. I'm pretty sure that is NOT going to pass inspection.
Again, I start with a sketch:
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/BattHoldDown.jpg)
http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/BattHoldDown.jpg (http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/BattHoldDown.jpg)
Which I then transfer to poster board and fold up.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/IMG_4504_Small.jpg)
The little tab fits into a step on the battery.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/IMG_4506_small.jpg)
You can see the tab on the left side top.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/IMG_4507_small.jpg)
Made out of 20ga or so steel it shouldn't sway back quite like this. :) Oh, and it is actually square - shooting the picture with one hand while holding the blue folder in the other the picture was a little skewed and when I straightened it in PhotoShop it distorted a little.
Ken
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Whoo hoo! I came home from shopping with my wife (AKA Umbrella Girl Lisa) and I had goodies in the mail box! First, a VERY nice present from Willie and Sheri:
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Buell_EFI1_small.jpg)
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Buell_EFI2_small.jpg)
Yes, that is a Beull XB9 throttle body with injectors and TPS. This will make getting the EFI working much easier. All we have to do is lop one side off the manifold, fabricate a mount, re-do the fuel rail and find someplace to mount a air-temp sensor, and we are half-way to EFI!
Speaking of EFI, this was the other thing that came:
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/MicroSquirt_small.jpg)
Originally one of my friends was going to assemble a MegaSquirt board for me. Unfortunatly, he like needed to get a job, and moved the the land of Mooses and hockey and was not going to get to the project for awhile. I sent the kits back, and in return for a small stack of cash, they sent me the much smaller Micro Squirt. In hindsight, I probably should have went this way in the first place.
On Friday I picked up the underseat tray from Schmeer Sheet Metal Works. Cederick did a good job, and I did a little fitting and drilling last night, and finished it up this morning.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/TrayInMetal1_small.jpg)
I hammer-formed the edge over the round tube of the rear subframe with my trusty rubber mallet.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/TrayInMetal2_small.jpg)
I made the cut-out for the latch with a drill-press and sabre saw with metal cutting blade. The cold rolled steel cut easier than I expected. I then used the ball end of a ball-peen to form the cutout down a little.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/TrayInMetal3_small.jpg)
Eventually the bike will be lowered and the tray will be much closer to the tire.
Of course, I had to run right out and see how the MicroSquirt look in the underseat tray.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/MicroSquirtOnBike_small.jpg)
Finally I feel like I'm getting a little done!
Ken
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ken did you build the battery hold down --if you didnt let me know i will build it for bracket fabrication and other fun stuff then ill send it to you willie buchta
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No Wille, I haven't built it yet. Thanks for the offer, that would be great!
Ken
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if your patern is o k i will do it tomorrow willie buchta
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The pattern should be good Willie.
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done and posted willie buchta
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Thank Willie for the battery hold down, it looks good.
Just for kicks (and to get an idea of how it fits in relation to stock parts) I pulled the carby off the Blast on Suday and slipped the XB TB on:
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/EFI_MANIFOLD_ON_BIKE.jpg)
Looks like it should be easy from here, huh? Still a lot of work to go before I have a running EFI engine. Still, it's a great motivation picture!
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Willie's battery hold down showed up today, appropriatly in a Screming Eagle box.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/BattHoldDown1.jpg)
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/BattHoldDown2.jpg)
The first two images are without the battery to show how it fits on the bike.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/BattHoldDown3.jpg)
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/BattHoldDown4.jpg)
And here it is with the battery in place. I may have to trim the 1/2" legs a smidge, as I had to put the battery into the holder and then slip it in place. Or move the relay to the right of the battery (I don't think that relay will be there once the bike is wired as a race bike anyway). Also, in hindsight I could have just made the tab up top and not bothered with the rest of the wrap-over. I tend to uhh, over build things a little. Comes from stock-car racing on short tracks, a full contact sport!
What do you think, after paint should I add a Screamin' Eagle sticker? ;)
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"What do you think, after paint should I add a Screamin' Eagle sticker?"
A Willieworld sticker would be more appropriate.... Willie, do you have a logo? :-D I'm thinking a globe with head to head V twins... :-o
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With a watch cap.
DW
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Despite a cold lonely garage, I managed to get a couple things done today. First on the agenda was to get the throttle body and plenum seperated. I'd tried a couple things, but did not want to risk damaging the pot-metal TB housing. I tried a make-shift puller to push them apart at the injector-rail mounting holes, but it didn't seem to budge. Plan B was a little heat gently and carefully applied to the plenum with a propane torch. Success! At fist a little wiggle, the it popped right off. Once seperated, I checked out how it would work coming straight off the manifold.
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/EFI_ONBIKE.jpg)
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/EFI_ONBIKE2.jpg)
Looks pretty good. I still need an injector in there somewhere, so I will probably end up adding a plenum between the TB and the manifold. I ordered a injector holder and some 6011 tubing this week.
(http://www.sdsefi.com/newboss12.jpg)
From Simple Digital Systems at http://www.sdsefi.com/. I talked to Ross (the owner I think) via e-mail and he has the electrical connectors for injectors as well, so I ordered 2 of those as well (2 in case I mess up a pin :roll:) I called on Thursday to place my order and was told they were out of holders, so I sent Ross an e-mail. He told me he expected "some" on Friday. I got another e-mail from him Friday after lunch that he had gotten ONE holder from his machinist, just for me! Now how is that for service! I'm not even buying his controller (I'm using a MicroSquirt) and he went the extra mile. Must be because he is Canadian, eh? :-D
After checking the TB, I re-installed the carburator and airbox for now, as I'm trying to arrange a base-line dyno run. Then I fitted the Willie battery hold-down. As I expected the relay that was in the way will not be there by the time I get to the Big White Dyno as it's actually a turn-signal flasher. I unbolted it and just moved it aside. I had to make a couple little adjustments, then drilled some 1/4"+ clearence holes in the 1/2" flanges. Using a transfer punch, I marked the bike and drilled holes to match. Once installed I found that the hold-down interfers with the seat-pan, where the seat-pan has a "bump" to hold the battery down. I'll have to trim the bump out of the way when I re-do the seat.
Once everything was back together, I took it out side and fired it up. After the usual long warm up with it backfiring, I rode it up and down our cul-de-sac a little. For some reason it doesn't want to run over 3/4 throttle - it feels like the ignition is retarded, but I bet it's just running way lean because of the aftermarket exhaust. I should have checked the jets when I had the carburator off.
OK, this part was just for fun:
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/OBS_RACING.jpg)
OBS-cene sticker from Cafe press (it is a very long story, best told over a cold beer) and the 'Racing' from a local sign shop. Probably should have went yellow, but I kind of like blue.
After riding up and down the street in the sleeting-rain, I called it an afternoon and came in for hot tea. It's not much progress, but it's some!
Ken
Ken
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....................
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/EFI_ONBIKE2.jpg)
Looks pretty good. I still need an injector in there somewhere, so I will probably end up adding a plenum between the TB and the manifold. I ordered a injector holder and some 6011 tubing this week.......................
Good to see some progress. I guess I don't understand the "plenum between the TB and the manifold". Are you calling the manifold the runner between the TB and head in the picture?? If so and there isn't room to put the injector there it looks to me you need to make a longer runner. If it was boosted or even NA forced air I would put the plenum on the air intake side of the TB. Maybe I just don't understand.
keep working,
Sum
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Howdy, folks. My name is Dan, and I am a friend of Ken and Lisa. I've known Ken for a few years now, and someone said earlier that Ken seemed like the kind of person that when he says he's gonna do something wacko like this, he's a doer, not a talker.
Well, he's a doer. He is certifiably crazy enough to be a doer. You all will probably really end up liking this guy's commitment, whether it is to his goal of going really fast, or to a padded room.
There is more about how he might have gotten to this point if you want it, but I am not sure this is the forum for that info. You already know about his short track days. That is about half of the story.
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Good to see some progress. I guess I don't understand the "plenum between the TB and the manifold". Are you calling the manifold the runner between the TB and head in the picture?? If so and there isn't room to put the injector there it looks to me you need to make a longer runner. If it was boosted or even NA forced air I would put the plenum on the air intake side of the TB. Maybe I just don't understand.
keep working,
Sum
Sum,
If you go back a page, you will see that originally there was another section to the throttle body that served to split the air and send to the 2 cylinders on the Buell XB. Oh, heck here is the picture:
(http://candyassllamas.com/OBSR/Buell_EFI1_small.jpg)
It's the portion in the TOP of this photo. That is also where the injector(s) go; and you are right I need to replace at least some of this so I have somewhere to mount the injectors.
Here is the terminology I'm using, which may be wrong. The part bolted to the head, I'm calling the "manifold" even though it's not really. Between the manifold and the throttle body is a plenum, or on the XB "diverter", that holds the injector and then finally farthest from the engine is the throttle body itself. And of course, after that is another plenum, the air box. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
I haven't decided if I will add ~ 3-4" between the TB and the manifold (spigot?) or just weld some tubing to the manifold itself. I _think it's weldable aluminum, but I'm not sure.
Ken
PS - Dan, is the friend that bought my Goldwing so I could fund this project. Well, except his wife actually bought it a month ago and Dan just found out yesterday. :evil:
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Ken
If it's an aluminum casting it will weld up beautifully.
Pete
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No one likes to admit that they are wrong, or may have headed down a path that ultimately turns out to be the wrong one. Our usual response is to just forge ahead, and ignore the growing gnawing feeling in the pit of our stomach that we are just throwing good money after bad. Particularly when we have invested a large amount of time and cash into something.
I am going to buck that trend. If has become increasingly apparent to me that I am not as enamored with this project as I thought I was, and to be honest part of that is due to the large amounts of cash I've been throwing at it. In the end I am a pragmatist and expect a certain 'bang' for my buck; if I spend $10K on something, I like to feel I am getting $10K worth of enjoyment out of it. I do not feel that is the case now, so I am going to shelve the project permanently.
I want to say thank you to everyone who has been involved and offered encouragement and help. I am sorry I am unable to carry out your efforts.
Regards,
Ken
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Sorry to hear that Ken. Thank you for sharing all your work with us. If you ever change your mind, the same group will probably be here to help give input and support again.
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come on buddy bolt the carb back on you got 7 months to go the bang is just running down the salt and going faster than anyone has ever gone in that class meeting the hundreds of people that love the same thing you do willie buchta
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Thats a shame to read your post. I guess we're all made different. I've been plugging away at my Norton for the past 41 years and if God gives me another 41 I figure I'll still be at it. But believe me all the time, money and effort suddenly become worth it when you break a record. But I suppose if you equate money and time to results maybe you should pack it in. But I was lookng forward to seeing how the B-last would run. Particularly with the fuel injection. I've been dying to try it on my Norton but being dumb I have no idea how it works or how I would make it work.
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Sorry to hear you're throwing in the towel Ken. I too abandoned my blast project so I do understand!
I still get a kick out of watching others do it but it is little return for the effort. I may play with one again
sometime in the future but for now I have bigger fish to fry! :-D
I hope you have something else in mind. BTW, the blast makes an excellent pit bike! :wink:
Deb
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How about if you were to buy a new Hayabusa? Remove the limiter and you have 200mph with a warranty!
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The Hayabusa has GOT to be the most remarkable over the counter- or out the showroom- vehicle on the planet.
Looking at results from recent Landspeed events they will do and are ridden to the 300KPH STOCK limit.
MB, AUDI BMW, etc have a gentlemen's agreement as I understand limiting their 4 wheel vehicles 2 ONLY 250KPH
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are you going to sell the bike sheri buchta