Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Freud on July 30, 2007, 11:29:06 PM
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jacksoni:
It seems to me that when there is no monetary conflict, truth in vision and eye care has the the same conditions for each profession.
As long as the patient is the primary concern, everything is excellent.
Marlo's 'liner is progressing at an adequate pace. As long as he is happy everyone else should be overjoyed. The fotos I did just over a week ago involved the fitting of the canopy. It is a very complex part of the skin and so many curves come together in that area that it's a slow go.
As soon as the canopy section is fitted, the panels behind there are not as complex. But then again, sometimes when things look simple it requires a huge amount of preparation to make it work out.
I'll see if I can attach a foto from that shoot.
There are 3 images of the canopy. The shot of the inside shows that the inside is finished to a standard that practically matches the outside. Hume built a fixture to maintain the shape as it is finished. This eliminated flexing and any problem when it's time to attach this piece. The side panels are finished with 80 grit on either a long block or a contour pad and when I was there almost every panel was finished to this level.
FREUD
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Since I don't have a handle on Treit's website yet, I will start this build site. When I figure out the website, I will post there but this will give an insight into this incredible car.
The body is very complex and when the frame was completed we thought that it was a done deal. The body has taken at least 5 times as long to do as did the chassis.
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Dr Freud- once again, I agree.
Thanks for the update on the liner and the photos. Awesome. Really look forward to first runs.
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So does Marlo.
Check the build diary every few days. I will add fotos to a thread about his car.
This coming Monday, Aug 6, Marlo and I are going to Humes. I will have more fotos after that trip and will try to post before I leave for Bendover on Thursday.
FREUD
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These fotos were done March 7,2007 The images are numbered in the upper right corner. Click on the small images to open them.
2. The hole in the upper portion of the central panel is a lift point for transporting the car. The section with the hole and the one immediately to the right are the last "fairly flat" panels before the tail section starts. The end of the right panel is at the bulkhead of the driver’s compartment. The panel immediately above those two, with the shaft, is the top of the cowl area. A later image will show it's skin.
3. A better view of the shaft that holds the fingers that secures the cowl panel to the body.
5. The panels of the first two shots are now shown on the opposite side. The left side shows the throttle and the linkages. The lift point is also visible in the front panel.
8. The tab tacked to the frame rail holds the plastic roller (white) that the hook for holding the cowl in place hooks under. Edited. The white rollers have been replaced with black one that have a much higher melting point. It took a month to replace the white rollers.)
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Continuation of Aug 1 posting
9. Closer view of attachment.
10. Another of the attachment points.
11. The shaft slides back and forth to secure and release the cowl panel. A later view will show the control handle.
12. The panels and the ribs are drilled for the rivets. Final joint finishing is underway. Then the rivets will be installed. Each head is flush fitted and does not require sanding or filing to be flush.
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Freud,
What a work of art! Is there any possibility of you posting some pictures of the motor with the whipple mounted in front?
Thanks,
Tom G.
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When you look at the effort, the quality of the fabrication, the design that has gone into that car it really makes my future efforts on a small engine lakester look like a pimple on a horse's ass! Man that is one impressive project!!!!
Rex
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Work of art is hardly adequate! WOW!!!!
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You should see the real thing. It's awesome.
Glen
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Tom.....I've just put this stuff on because it is all current and I didn't have to dig up CDs or negs and scan them.
I have a full plate for today but tonight I will look for earlier stuff to show the remotely mounter blowers and the drive system for them.
Glad u are liking it.
FREUD
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I'd feel honored to be allowed to see the real thing. Do you think it's possible to receive an invitation?
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Tom, my wife is waiting in the car but I found this image. More soon.
FREUD
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She's still waiting but she just set off the alarm to remind me.
The is the "home of the butterflies. Les Davenport whipped them out in his spare time.
FREUD
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Reminds me a lot of the Barnyard Bomber!
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Reminds me a lot of the Barnyard Bomber!
If you are referring to Jim Knapp's car, I built it and I guarantee other than being called a liner, it bears no resemblence to Marlo's!
Yah, I know you were being only a little sarcastic. :-o :roll:
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Yeah -- but success ain't always pretty!
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Yeah -- but success ain't always pretty!
Thanks, I did ok with it and am pleased that Jim has too.
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I will complete this section with 4 more posts and then I'll go to a different phase of the car.
The release system for the body panels makes it possible for two people to have the entire body off in several minutes. In a record attempt the time requirements will not allow dzus fastener's. As I remember there are 4 dzus buttons in the cockpit but they in no way are involved with the removal of body panels. The entire skin is more like the structure of an airplane than any car. Before the structures were riveted together all of the inside panels have been painted and made as moisture resistant as possible.
14. The aluminum lever with the black end is the release lever for the cowl.
16. Left side of the cowl release rod with 2 hooks and the roller attachments showing.
17. Left side pivot point for the cowl release shaft and directly below it, the arm that's activated by the previously shown release lever in the cockpit. (14)
18. The front end of the cowl shows the actuating shaft that passes thru the entire length of the cowl panel to release the hold down hooks.
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Knapp's car ain't that bad-especially when you look at CdA-there is way more to going fast than workmanship, but HARD work is guaranteed!-Oh yeah, ain't that NUMBER ONE on his vehicle?
Jim Hume's efforts on Treit's machine are beyond belief-he is one of , if not, the best and doing it basically as a WW II level technology project executed to the highest degree of finish and quality may be one of the last of those projects what with today's composite world. I hope Hume has some more in him. Awesome project!
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There are other fotos posted in Treit's website. The fotos that are there
will not be posted in the Build Diary.
http://target550.com/
FREUD
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Freud,
Thanks for posting those pictures. I appreciate it.
Tom G.
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Tom, if there is a section that is in question for you, post this weekend and I'll do
fotos of that area Monday when Marlo and I go up there.
Hume lives about 50 miles north of me. Marlo drives up here, it's about 235 miles
from his hanger to my place, and then I drive up and back to Humes. It saves
Marlo 100 miles out of a day that approaches 600 miles plus visitation, consultation and
2 meals. When I was a runner I had a lot of time to think about things. Marlo uses
the drive up for questions and suggestions and the drive back to digest the answers. It has been
one huge project.
The foto includes Hume and Rick Vesco. Meeting of 2 great minds.
Rick and Lance Morris were there in Oct of 2006.
Have you ever seen an idiot that wasn't smiling?
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Wow, talk about a small world the other day I was at a friends house at a party in Aurora (a little sod farm at the end of the Aurora airport) and this lady at the party asked about the "Jonny Hotnuts Bonneville Racing" sticker on the back of my truck and she mentioned that there was a friend of hers that was building a car to break 550 mph in a hanger close by (but she did not know any real details about it).
I politely nodded and wished her friend "good luck in his quest" but was really thinking that she was not really sure what she was talking about (she was definitely not crazy, in fact she was very nice but I figured she was told or misheard what she was talking about) ....after all, that would be breaking the record by over 100mph and did not think that it was possible especially from a little farm community in the sticks.
I see now that she was not as misinformed as I thought she was.....funny thing is that I met Bob Durry the very next day at Grainger.
who woulda thought.
-JH
One more thing:
550 mph?....really?.....
I looks like Im going to need get a bigger motor for my Fiat!!!!!
(seriously, good luck)
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22. This handle actuates the lock and release mechanism for the cowl panel. It is in the release position. The driver reaches this even while strapped in.
23. The lever is in lock position.
24. The white part is plastic with a ramp that has a protrusion on it. The lever locks against that ramp. The ramp is not evident in the foto.
25. The cowl, front end is at the top, and one of the radiused panels that forms the side.
A later set of fotos will show the air brake for high speed stopping. It will be attached to the rear bar of the roll cage. The small tube going back from the cage is to support the rear body panels during mock up. Several later fotos will show their use.
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Hume places the cowl support in place to demonstrate the upper support and the side panel.
The cowl and cleco secured side panel in place.
The formed panel for the top of the cowl is in place with only 3 clecos. It's now apparent where the long panel with the short radius fills in.
Securing the long panel.
NOTE: The last 2 fotos are switched. It's obvious when you look at the fotos and read the captions.
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Tom, if there is a section that is in question for you, post this weekend and I'll do
fotos of that area Monday when Marlo and I go up there.
Freud,
Thanks for the offer. I cannot think of anything at this point in time. As soon as Marlo bring her home I hope to go up and visit him and check everything out first hand. Keep up the good work your pictures speak volumes. I appreciate the thread and know a lot of other people do also.
Thanks,
Tom G.
PS. On Monday tell Marlo I said Hi, and hope to see him at Bonneville.
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Marlo Treit, owner, looks where his money has been converted from green paper to tubing.
The wooden buck is still required to make certain that the skin is in exactly the same shape, when attached and secured, as it was originally designed.
The black pen line on the cowl is where the canopy shape will start.
The air brake, designed and machined by Les Davenport, is shown in the deployed shape.
The blurred person in the background is ATTICUS ROBERTSON,V. He is Humes grandson and is the only employee. More flattering fotos will occur in this diary as he acquires additional duties.
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This is the retracted shape. It's attachment point was discussed in frame 26.
(I quit using frame numbers. It added an extra step as I converted the files.)
Hume assembles the tail section panels to demonstrate the finish shape. There are 4 panels starting with the curved canopy section. The small tube mentioned in frame 26 is supporting the upper tail section.
The 4 sections are well defined by the steps in the bottom of the panels.
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The four people in this foto are Marlo Treit, Jim Hume, Michael Seal, Ph.D, and Dr. Seal's associate professor.
Seal was the Department head for Vehicle Research Institute, Western Washington University in Bellingham, Washington.
http://vri.etec.wwu.edu/viking_xx.htm
Treit and Hume turned to Dr. Seal and his then associate professor, Ed West, in the development of the car. This gave them access to the University's wind tunnel.
Viking 31 is the project number for this car at that University.
These fotos are of the 1/10th scale model.
FREUD
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Great trip to Hume's today except for the $124 ticket 2 miles from home.
I was going 52.8 feet per second and the limit was 36.6.
I will post several specific fotos tonight. Gotta start getting ready for the
journey to Mecca.
The model is sitting on it's custom constructed carrying case. The nose of the car
is the background. The car is so big in the shop that the only way I can get a foto
of the entire car in the frame is to use a 15mm lens on a Nikon F5. The 20 mm lens
on a Nikon D100 is like a 35mm on a film camera. These images are digital.
The exhaust pipes are double walled. The satinless outer shield had to be annealed to
be able to be bent on that radius. The inner pipes are positioned by the small pins that are
welded close to the end of the pipes. After the outer pipe was positioned, it was welded along
both sides of the splits. Then the trapazoidal piece at the very end of the pipe was welded
in place to keep the end of the weld from splitting. I didn't show the weld at the end very well.
I'll do a better image next time.
The detail of the front of the engine and the Whipple blower pulley are to show desotoman
the relationship of the blower to the front of the engine. The blower is driven off
of the back end instead of the front. Highly unconventional. Tom, Marlo will tell
you about it when he sees you. It's obvious that a lot of pieces aren't inplace.
Hume took a break and went out to feed the neighbors buffalo.
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Freud,
Thanks for the picture. Sorry to hear about the ticket.
Tom G.
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Freud,
Thanks for the picture. Sorry to hear about the ticket.
Tom G.
Freud, is is me or do we all tend to drive faster the closer we get to going to the salt...
See ya at the 6 and on the salt... 8-)
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At least I wasn't in reverse.
F
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At least I wasn't in reverse.
F
I can help you with that if you are up to it Old Man.
I never saw Vesco's Mother and Father laugh so hard as when they went for a reverse 180 with Marcia in the Rent-A-Rocket.
One the other hand, when I did it in the Packard, My Dad saw Me and almost cried.
I never saw that car again.
Oh Well.
NEXT ? :wink:
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My license is up to "Rev limiter" in rentals in reverse.
FREUD
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The canopy was standing next to the chassis. The holes for attaching the canopy to the hinged section are at the bottom of the image. These will be apparent in a later shot.
The soft material in the curved shape is the underside support for the canopy. This will allow support w/o metal on metal. The hole in the middle of the foto is the pivot point for the canopy hinge.
The lever with the knob is the inside release for the canopy latch. The inside of the canopy matches the curve of the padding
The canopy hinge. (This is the first image. It's out of order with the text.)
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The canopy hinge installed and latched. This is the front view.
This is latched in the open position. This is the cockpit view showing the release arm and knob.
Height of the windshield insert is being discussed.The holes in the front edge of the canopy, from the previous post, are in place.
The gap is consistent around the entire fit. It's about 0.030".
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The aluminum panel between the back of the canopy and the air brake is being shaped by Atticus Robertson,V.
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Thes fotos show the detail of the enclosures around the tires to keep salt from going inside the chassis and body panels.
They are spun stainless steel enclosures with suit case type clasps. There is a coating applied inside the enclosure to make it more difficult for salt to buiild up within the enclosure.
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Treit and I will be going to Hume's shop Sunday and I'll have a new post later that day.
FREUD
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Freud,
Watch out for the cops this time! Only kidding. Tell Marlo I said Hi.
Tom G.
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This liner is a piece of rolling sculpture,WOW!!!
Where is their shop located?
Jim Keeler
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Where the Buffalo roam, and I aint shittin you.....................You can pee through the fence on one if you got da cajones..........................
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The first shot is a left side view of the canopy in place.
The hinge that was described in an earlier presentation was shot from inside the cockpit
to show it's relationship to the canopy. (Sorry for the poor image quality.)
The canopy has been split and shows the front lip that was formed as part of the
curved section and the line where it will pivot on the internal hinge.
The last shot is the formed piece that butts to the back of the canopy from the first image and covers the roll cage, back to the attachment plate for the air brake that attaches to the vertical section of the roll cage. The next presentation will show the panel that the air brake will attach to.
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The dimples are spuds welded into the roll cage that will mount the carrier plate for the air brakes.
The area defined by the masking tape is the section that will cover the roll bars. It will be cut out
and permanently attached to the roll cage.
The third image shows the two sections that will complete the tail and are supported by the piece of
tubing from a prior foto.
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Such a quality build!
The more you look, the little things stand out, like amazing corner gussets.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/PJQ/gusset.jpg)
And the work on the latches. And the blower arrangement. The exhaust. And the... and that... and, and, and. I'm a bit excited!
When this liner makes it to Oz, the crew will be shooing me off like an Outback fly (and they're damn persistent).
It would be a real privilege to meet the builders and check it out up close.
Question out of ignorance: would stability become an issue when air brakes like this are used at speed, or is that overcome with the weight of the vehicle?
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Thinking out loud attempting to answer my own question...
I guess the parachute(s) will be used at the same time as the air brake?
The air brake will radically change the flow across the body and the parachute(s) will probably need to deploy further away from the back of the car to be efficient?
Unless: the brake is used after the chutes grab, in which case, will the air brake be effective?
I guess 500+ is a long way from 200 and things would be different out there. For a non flyer type, 500+ is pretty hard to get your head around (200 ain't so hard to think about). I have imaginings of a very bouncy ride slamming an air brake on at anything over 300 (no matter what the weight or body shape).
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Wait for the Bargains......... The ticket went down to $60. Less than half price.
What a deal.
I'll reply regarding the air brake and chutes in a day or so. I'll also be going to Humes Wednesday for more fotos.
FREUD
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The answer to PJQ's question regarding the air brake.
At the time the air brake was designed and machined it was considered to be the primary deployment at the end of the run.
The car is never static. Anything that seems to be an improvement is considered. In the case of the air brake, new products have been acquired that have changed the plans. An adequate supply of chutes has been acquired and they will probably be the first line in braking. These chutes will withstand a load of 10,000# at Mach 1. The car doesn't weigh that much and won't go that fast.
Testing at progressively higher speeds will determine the final pattern of use.
PJQ, that was a good question. I hope my answer was adequate.
FREUD
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Such a quality build!
The more you look, the little things stand out, like amazing corner gussets.
And the work on the latches. And the blower arrangement. The exhaust. And the... and that... and, and, and. I'm a bit excited!
When this liner makes it to Oz, the crew will be shooing me off like an Outback fly (and they're damn persistent).
It would be a real privilege to meet the builders and check it out up close.
Question out of ignorance: would stability become an issue when air brakes like this are used at speed, or is that overcome with the weight of the vehicle?
I'll second that, I sit and amazed at the quality of work. I can't fathom the amount of man hours that will go into this before it's done, and look forward to they day I hopefully see it run!
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Such a quality build!
The more you look, the little things stand out, like amazing corner gussets.
And the work on the latches. And the blower arrangement. The exhaust. And the... and that... and, and, and. I'm a bit excited!
When this liner makes it to Oz, the crew will be shooing me off like an Outback fly (and they're damn persistent).
It would be a real privilege to meet the builders and check it out up close.
I'll second that, I sit and amazed at the quality of work. I can't fathom the amount of man hours that will go into this before it's done, and look forward to they day I hopefully see it run!
I think I've written this before but yes it is incredible , I can't wait to see it out here in OZ ....I'll go one better and do my utmost to make it look even better by parking our car next to it.... :-D :-D :-D...it'll be a bit like Tiny Tim jammin' with the London Philharmonic..............
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I've been involved with this project since day one. I have come to a very learned conclusion.
It seems to me to be easy when you have enough tools.
Take a quick look into Hume's "tool fetish" driven operation.
Image 34: An original Frost English Wheel, 42" throat and a multitude of lower anvil wheels.
The rubber top wheels are for forming w/o stretching the material.
Image 35: TM Tech Air Planishing hammer. In the background is the Jet Vertical Mill.
Image 29: The Bead Roller has a variety of forming wheels.
Image 28: The drawer of hand made Flaring Dies run from 3/8" to 3" in 3/8" increments.
There is a separate set of dies below this layer that have a gradual radius for special
applications. The machinist retired when he finished this set.
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The tool fetish is evident in the vise Grip department.
The attached wooden pieces allow a tight squeeze w/o the problem
of dimples in the metal. Surface finish is a priority and this helps.
He also found several "older items", that he just couldn't resist,
at a garage sale. After all, a vise is just like a camera tripod.
You use the biggest one you can carry.
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I've been involved with this project since day one. I have come to a very learned conclusion.
It seems to me to be easy when you have enough tools.
Take a quick look into Hume's "tool fetish" driven operation.
/quote]
Freud, you could give most people all the tools in the world and not 1% of them could do half as good a job, it is the artest not the tools that get the job done.
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What is the percentage when we include Stainless?
FREUD
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Bout 50 50 I'd guess...
thanks for thinking of me, did you pee your pants again???
Just kidding of course, have a good one Freud.... :-D
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Bout 50 50 I'd guess...
thanks for thinking of me, did you pee your pants again???
Just kidding of course, have a good one Freud.... :-D
Able to use half the tools and hurt yourself with the other half?
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Many tools have multiple uses.
The original intent and second duty as a bottle opener.
Stainless can easily adapt to the alternative function; especially with a Vise Grip.
F
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I'd have to vote the vise grip as one of the most useful multi-function tools ever. They can do anything.
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Freud:
I know that they have been working on the project from at least 02....
Is there an EDC for the project?
Also my pop and I would like to be able to see the car, any chance that someone could show us around?
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When you are building a car vise grips and clamps are like girls with big "ta ta's" you just can't have enough of them around!.
Rex
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Rex, that's a griping analogy.
FREUD
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I haven't been to Hume's shop for 10 days so I'll post these fotos of the fairing behind the front wheels. These aluminum skirts would be perfectly fine, unless something damages or destroys one of them, so these are the patterns for the carbon fiber ones that will be used on the car when it runs. There is a section ahead of the tire that is attached to the nose. Those pieces are about 12" long and they move ahead when the nose cone is moved forward. I'll look and see if I can find shots of those pieces.
I have shown the entire piece and views of portions of them. They are 12" wide x 71 1/2" long.
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Here is a view of the model that shows the wheel fairings.
This foto was before the model was in the tunnel. it shows
the initial nose as compared to the finalized shape following the tunnel tests.
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The actual front section mated to the rear portion before they were separated.
Bless the vice grips.
FREUD
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This old image, at least 2 years ago, give a better perspective following all
the close up things I have posted.
FREUD
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The throttle pedal was done to be able to control each engine individually or both simultaneously. It was programed and done by Les Davenport with a CNC mill. The shadow on the left top shows the ability to have different levels of throttle on either engine for warm up or even if the car is run using just one engine.( The difference in position was done just to show flexibility.) The car can function with either engine alone or with both engines. It can also be run 4 wheel drive, front wheel drive or rear wheel drive just by removing drive belts. Either engine can be used in any drive situation.
The throttle linkage attached to the back side of the pedal. Fully adjustable.
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Butterflies for the front engine and a look at the continued use of vice grips.
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Thanks for posting all those pictures,very interesting and informing.This is an outstanding streamliner.
JL222
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THANK YOU, JL22
It's fun but not a short drive. The shop is really getting full and it's
difficult sometimes to find the right place from which to shoot.
The fluorescent lighting is a real challenge and the old lights
were all replaced 2 weeks ago. The new ones are a different
color temp. Oh well.............
The car will be going to Oregon in 2 weeks and then it will all
change again. That drive is 3 times as long.
FREUD
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THANK YOU, JL22
The car will be going to Oregon in 2 weeks and then it will all
change again. That drive is 3 times as long.
FREUD
Freud,
I just wanted to thank you very much for taking the time to post this build. I read the whole thread last night for the first time. I have learned so much about things you have posted and been confused by the other half. That is what is great about an internet forum such as this one, the learning and sharing of info and meeting these awesome people.
Is there a time frame that Marlo would like to have the car done by? Or is it that everything is gonna take "X" amount of time and it's finished when it's finished?
Scott
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When it's completed it's ready to try. Marlo has goals but he's more concerned that NOTHING is compromised in the build. He chose to have Jim Hume build the car and they confer frequently. Marlo wishes it was done years ago but it's not.
It's a piece of art, but art is best enjoyed when it's presented to the public. That's the goal and they are hell bent on accomplishing that. Presenting it to the public includes it running. That's the real goal.
Thanks for your reply. Sorry I haven't made each post clear. Ask and I'll try to explain what I intended to say.
FREUD
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Thanks for your reply. Sorry I haven't made each post clear. Ask and I'll try to explain what I intended to say.
FREUD
You have explained it fine it's just my inexperience with streamliners. You are doing a great job and it is appreciated, I am learning a lot from your posts.
Thanks,
Scott
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MARLO and I wish everyone a very HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
Thanks to all of you for following this build site.
FREUD
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And a happy turkey day right back at ya! Impressive build. Can't wait to see it run.
Cheers all!
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December 8, Marlo picked up the car from Hume and moved it to his own shop. There will be plumbing installed and the ducting from the blower to the manifolds
will be fabricated. Part of the tail has not been finished but before spring it will be returned to Hume's place for that to be completed.
Treit bought a 5th wheel trailer and stretched it to maximum over the road length.
Treit is by the control center for the hydraulically actuated lifting cylinders. The lifting pins have been screwed into the chassis, the cables and small shackles attach to the pins. Allen,"Oz". Osborne, a major player in the design and building of the carrier, guides the lift pin into the securing clamp. Jesse gets his initial introduction to the operation. Carrier foto 23
Overall view of the car, carrier and size of Hume's shop set the scene. Carrier25s foto
The lifting pin, shackle and securing clamp detail. The L shaped carrier clamp support rotates out of the way when the car is not secured. When the car is elevated above the clamp level, the support is rotated into place and the car is lowered into the support, the upper clamp half in rotated into position and the "T" handled securing screw is tightened. Then the car is actually a part of the carrier. The tension on the cables is minimal in this position but the car is secure. 4 wheel steer on the carrier aids in maneuvering. Carrier26s foto
Check the fotos in www.target550.com website. There is a detailed presentation on there. Most of the posting, from now on, will be posted at that site but I won't slam the door on Landracing.com.
FREUD
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That is one long trailer! Thanks for the update.
Scott
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Thanks Freud for the updates. It looks like it is coming along real well.
The new web site is very nice. I like it. Brian #7796
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The body panels up to the cowl are totally fitted. That is essential to finish fit the panels that include the cowl, air brake, and tail. They have to have a point from which to anchor the canopy and tail tin measurements. For the work that will be done in Oregon that tail tin is not essential.
The carrier functions very well. It's easy to lift the car and it is very secure as it moves, either over the ground or when secured in the trailer.
One conclusion that I made was, "it would sure be nice if the carrier had it's own locomotion power." But I suppose that everyone that buys an ice cream cone in the summer would also like a bib.
FREUD
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HAPPY NEW YEAR to all of the fans of Marlo's 'liner.
2008 should be a good year or the project.
FREUD
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HAPPY NEW YEAR to all of the fans of Marlo's 'liner.
2008 should be a good year or the project.
FREUD
Still here anxiously awaiting a build update......Happy New Year Freud!
Scott
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Happy New Year Everyone
It was -6 degrees last night on Brewster Flats with a foot of snow on the ground.
A good time to be in the shop working on the race cars.
Again Happy New Year Brian # 7796
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hey Doc
can i get the address of the web site
kent
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Kent,
http://target550.com
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I will pass on whatever Marlo relays to me. He's up to his bellie buttons in alligators and as soon as he can afford to feed them, he will pass on some pearls of wisdom for me to relate to you.
If you have a question for him, send it to me or ask him at the San Diego Roadster Club meeting in February.
2008 is going to be an interesting year. If u can't wait for SDRC meeting, he will be at B'ville NW Reunion, Feb 23 in Portland.
Thanks for your interest and support.
aging FreuD
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Since Marlo's 'liner has been relocated to his Oregon facility he has had several slowdowns.
His aging and aching bones seem to work better in a warm area. So at the hanger, he is
framing in an area that is about 60 feet long and adding extra heat to it. That will make work easier and insure that the bare metal never sweats and oxodizes.
He has been battling a case of the flu and when he left me an e-mail today that said he planned to take a nap during the day, I know how much of a grip the flu has on him.
We planned to attend the San Diego Roadster Club banquet last Saturday but Mutha Nature took care of that. The Siskiyou Pass between Oregon and Washington was closed by snow over the weekend. The rains between Northern California and Southern Calif were bad. The call to stay home was a good one.
Sorry I don't have more to report but I will soon.
Here are a few more images from Dec 8th when the car was transported.
The first one shows Marlo at the control panel where all lifting and lowering is controlled.
Dick Milne prepares the securing clamp to be closed as the car is lowered into the perch. The lifting pins are rather subtantial.
It does all fit inside. The door will close.
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Thanks for the update Freud! Sorry you couldn't make the SDRC banquet it was my first and the wife and I enjoyed ourselves.
I know that nothing will be comprised with the building of the liner, but I am very curious if there is a estimation date for finishing or a goal in mind when he would like to be done with the liner.
Scott
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I assure you, he'd like to be done with it NOW. That hasn't happened.
There is NO COMPROMISE in this build. It was determined that the plastic
rollers that the panel latches slide over would not resist enough temp in case of a fire.
Every attachment point was removed from the frame, an entire new set of rollers
was fabricated and every roller was replaced. The rollers were all fabricated from flat sheets
of material that would tolerate higher temperature. This took one person over a month.
If another situation like this is determined it will be approached in the same manner.
With that dedication in mind, some may call it overbuilding, the time line is not
established. The intention is to do the first rolling tests in the Fall of 2008.
That may happen and it may not.
I have found that many of the time related questions are impossible for me to answer.
I'll try but I probably won't satisfy your curiosity.
I promise I will inform the Internet when it's about to occur.
FREUD
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I know they are impossible to anwser, I think I speak for many when I say I can't wait to finally see and here the liner make a pass.
Scott
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Scott.....Thanks for your interest. I can tell you that the day Hume said the frame was complete,
all aligned and welded, I though to myself Damn, It's really coming along.
The skin has taken almost 5 times as long to do as the chassis.
I guess I lost my head but in the meantime, I have learned to watch the progress
and be patient.
Thanks to all of you for your interest.
FREUD
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Hey, Freud and others, the Cistene Chapel ceiliung wasn't frescoed overnite!
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Scott.....Thanks for your interest. I can tell you that the day Hume said the frame was complete,
all aligned and welded, I though to myself Damn, It's really coming along.
The skin has taken almost 5 times as long to do as the chassis.
I guess I lost my head but in the meantime, I have learned to watch the progress
and be patient.
Thanks to all of you for your interest.
FREUD
thanks for keeping us informed Freud, I can understand your excitement , it's a sensational piece , mind-boggling .........it'll be a real buzz if they do bring it out here 8-)
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All of the banging and clanging noise you hear is me tossing my tools in the trash after viewing this build. That is the most awe inspiring work I`ve seen in quite a while. Jerry
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The pictures show a lot, but until you see the real thing you just can't believe the craftsmanship. Everything that Hume does is art in metal. Never in a hurry but the love and pride of what he does. Marlo picked the best for the build. :-D
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Hey Glen I'm not sure who picked who I think maybe Hume picked the project and Marlo said OK.
Brian #7796
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The whole bunch are great guys. It couldn't have been a better match. Brian #7796
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A quick question I didn`t see adressed prior. The steering, is that box operating against master cylinders that then act on slaves at the front via hyd. pressure? Very clever if it is (if not I`ll file that one away)! Jerry
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The car has hydraulic steering. :-D
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Hey, its only 42' long. You'd think cables would work :-D
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The engineers call it fluid transfer steering.
FREUD
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Proven to over 425 MPH, even if it's not SCTA legal...... of course Marlo's not thinking SCTA with this ride.
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Dyno, what a mess it would be if they made him run a shaft. About 30 feet of 1'' cold roll and maybe 10 0r 12 u joints would probably get there. One of the neat features Jim Hume built in the cockpit is the steering wheel/control panel pod which swings up vertical for driver ingress/egress. That is where the hydraulics start. Another neat feature is the split throttle pedal that Les Davenport whittled out on his cnc. The purpose is to help control throttle speed on each motor independently or together. I think I would need that on my sphincter..........................Bob
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I have just looked at the SCTA rule book for steering and they do require a "gear or link" type of steering which pretty much rules out any type of hydraulic or electronic system. But for a car as long as Marlo's it would certainly look like a "fly by wire" system would be the most appropriate. A rotary pot on the steering shaft and a small servo valve and cylinder with position feed back on the front wheel steering link. They would need a small hydraulic pump to power it but the response would be very fast and completely adjustable. I reviewed the pictures on this thread and did not see anything that looked like steering, if they are using some sort of master slave hydraulic system there could certainly be some challenges with this approach as line loss alone for a 42 foot long car could give you pretty heavy steering but as you probably don't want a real high gain (responsive) system anyway they could probably run lots of mechanical advantage ratio between the steering wheel and the master cylinder. Bleeding the air out of this system will be very important and also providing some sort of accumulator to make up for any possible small leaks in the system and keep the system "preloaded" at some pressure to keep it "tight". Having been in the hydraulics business for longer than I want to think about I will guarrentee you that they will have leaks.
If they ever need some extra dollars they could sell tours of the car for gear heads like myself, it is just to neat!! I would gladly pay to be able to spend time looking it over. I am sure that I would not be the only one!!
Rex
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Rex, the car has aproximately 6 to 10 degrees of steering, so the ratio or pressure to operate are almost a moot point. It either goes straight or it doesn't go at all. The car is transported, turned, and worked on while hanging underslung from the carriage. The carriage resembles a early 50's lumber carrier with four wheel steering and a hydraulic winch/lift system. As with anything Marlo does, its a show piece in itself. Hopefully he will have it on display for the next NW Reunion.....one more reason to come. I am already working on Freud to have Dolan either as the speaker or on display with a mussle on. I can hardly wait................. :-D
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What appears to be a "Muzzle" is actually an under water breathing device.
Acting as my agent, Ferd has me booked for the dunking tank and tells me to plan on spending a lot of time below the surface. :wink:
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What appears to be a "Muzzle" is actually an under water breathing device.
Acting as my agent, Ferd has me booked for the dunking tank and tells me to plan on spending a lot of time below the surface. :wink:
stocks would be simpler to organize , and can I suggest that they hook up a small coil and a battery with a little red button for those who forget to bring the fruit and veg'..................alternatively maybe just a small cage ....... Five bucks to "poke the Bear"
In all honesty folks I'd pay good money to hear Jack , we could do with that sort of experience wit and , er , charm in our club here. :wink:
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Googles.......not a problem. Buy Jack a new pair of shoes and give him a map.
HE CAN WALK ON WATER.
He'll come over and dry the lake bed for u.
FERD
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To see the carrier that was mentioned earlier, open:
http://target550.com/
There is a link to earlier fotos of the carrier. Pit work and transportation will all be done with the car in the carrier.
FREUD
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Googles.......not a problem. Buy Jack a new pair of shoes and give him a map.
HE CAN WALK ON WATER.
He'll come over and dry the lake bed for u.
FERD
huh? if that's true forget about the stocks and nail him to a cross .LOL
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We in the speed record club have been following the build of this car since its inception, and sadly have only had photographs to ponder. What is blatantly obvious is the quality of every aspect of the project, and the first running of this car is eagerly anticipated by a lot of people. I must congratulate this website on being such a wonderful communication genre. Please keep up the superb log Freud!
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I just received the computer that will allow me to access Marlo's site: Target550.com. I was ready to start with my education and adding to the site...........but I can't remember the password.
That may be a major or a minor problem. I'll be on it as soon as I find either the password or a method of working around it.
So in this day of technology, loss of memory may be fatal.
Thanks for the interest.
FREUD
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Since the car was moved from Hume's shop to Marlo's shop it has had verry litle work done on it. Marlo had to divide a section of his hanger, build walls, seal a sliding door, insulate and dry wall the area, install heaters and extra lights. It's now time for him to get to work.
He had the flu for about 5 weeks. That seems to be behind him. I talked to him about 6 PM Tuesday and he sounded great.
I expect results soon.
FREUD
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Wo.
Just had a close look at your machined speed brake.
Magnificent.
There is an elegance to this project that goes beyond just good machining.
Our belly tank has some nice lines but they are the bashed into shape effort of beginners, whereas this project you can just smell the experience of those involved.
It's like a masterclass of construction and a joy and inspiration to witness.
Keep up the beautiful work and keep posting those photos.
Thanks for sharing.
Reverend H+
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The new section of the shop at Treit's hanger is coming into shape. He has had many responsibilities off site and plans to be back on the car about the first of May. The hangers for the body panels are being fabed and will soon have their permanent attachment points along the wall.On a 32F night, the temp in th race car section was 68F.
I'd think most anyone could work in there.
FREUD
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With the round trip from my house to Treit's hanger being 500 miles, I won't get there as frequently as I could go to Hume's place. I went to Portland for the gathering of Gaines Markleys friends and then on down to Treit's hanger.I did a few fotos and will post them now.
First shot. The stall for the car is 24' by 62'. There's adequate room to walk around the ends without you being squeezed. With the majority of the weight being centered, the tail section can extend way beyond the carrier and not cause an unbalanced load.
Second shot. The rear center section is just behind the wheel post of the carrier. With the car elevated in the carrier I'll be able to show many more low angle views as the build progresses.
Third shot. The rear frame support is just aft of the rear center section. The stance of the support and the vertical plates on the stand make the car totally stable when it is released from the carrier. It's not going to drop on anyones toes.
Fourth shot. The limiting tabs match the diameter of the crossmember. That member is immediately forward of the front engine. The dummy block has all of the attachment plates and clutch can that exactly match the tested powerplants.
I will post 4 more fotos May 7th. Gotta go slug down a few Margaritas to celebrate the holiday.
The 2 images that are posted are described in the First and Second descriptions. I'll put the Third and Forth fotos in this following post. (Files were too big) Maybe I had the drinks before I posted? Only the Shadow knows.
FREUD
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These fotos are for the last two descriptions in the prior post.
FREUD
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This is the fuel pump and water pump drive. It is offset to miss part of the intake system. The offset drive is a modified Enderle fuel pump dual drive that is changed over to drive off the end gear rather than the middle and that gives it about a 4" offset and clears the other parts. Ratio is camshaft speed. The middle pump is water and the end pump is Waterman red fuel.
Note that the outlet from the blower is to its left and the fixed starter will be under it. So, the pumps needed to be moved. They are on aircraft V couplers and are quick disconnect. I believe Marmon clamps is the correct term.
In the lower left corner is a view of the coupler for two segments on the driveshaft that couples the front and rear engines to the 4 wheel drive assembly.
FREUD
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Slightly off the subject.
In case anyone was wondering what Hume did while Marlo's car is not in his shop I will post these fotos.
Dave Tatom has a blown flathead street roadster that he runs at B'ville. The car needed a new hood and air scoop so he had Hume make them. I have only posted fotos of the scoop. The skinny end goes forward. It looks so simple when it's all done but it's another example of Hume's fab skill.
FREUD
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Thats awesome! I wish I good fabricate like that......
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Thats awesome! I wish I good fabricate like that......
Ditto
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Along with the posts about Marlo's car, would you also be interested in some follow up projects that Hume is currently doing?
Webmaster, would you want that in a separate post or included in the Treit build, if there is interest in Hume's projects?
FREUD
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Sounds great to me. Jim Hume's craftsmanship is fabulous.
Pete
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Oh, crap! My first website decision. What'll I do, oh me, what'll I do?
Here's what I'll do: Freud, please start a new thread for the stuff from Hume and his shop and efforts. Putting it in with the Treit work would be fine, but with all the phots there already it'd just take a few moments extra to load to the new stuff, and keeping in mind those forum members that have slower internet service -- let's let them keep up as much as we can.
There. I did it. I made a "policy" decision. I've gotta go take a break now.
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SSS, you got it. It will be a few days before I do the new thread. I won't post a lot in there because I don't go to his shop as frequently as I did in the past and besides that he is doing a long term project that I can't feature.
I'll post what I can to allow people to enjoy his craftsmanship.
Who knows. Maybe someone will even decide to have him fabricate something for them. It will be a few months before Marlo's 'liner goes back to Hume's shop for the final fitting of the tail skin.
Now Slim, that wasn't too difficult was it?
FREUD
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I just wanted to show the detail required in the buck. The skin is fitted to this male shape. Just storage of the buck is a problem since it's like having 2 cars in the shop at all times.
FREUD
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Several more views.
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Glen, please show some shots of Jims wood carvings, especially the Fabrage Eggs, and oh, even the amazing Early Olds Rocket (great taste if you ask me!)...............Bob
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It's obvious that the end goal of this project is a car. Hume's talents in metal fabrication have been demonstrated many times and ways. But....the entire project started in wood. The model was a wood project. That presented no extra learning curve for Jim. He has been a wood carver for years. The wood cabinets in his home are to die for. He has developed this skill from the time he worked in his father's cabinet shop. I doubt that many people received the quality in their cabinets that he now considers his standard. His standards are beyond practical. He does not use sandpaper on his wood projects. The finishes are generated by planes and knives. He makes his own blades and for "gifts" for a visiting group of wood carvers from Japan who came to his home to meet him, he made each of them a small (2 1/2" long) functioning plane. The blades are so sharp that with the proper adjustment and certain wood, the chip is probably 0.002" thick. He presented each visitor with their own plane in small boxes that he constructed. So, he's known to a very exclusive group of carvers from around the world.
Talent in one arena is one thing but talent in multiple arenas is something else. This dude excels in whatever he does.
I forgot to tell you. He had a wooden egg on the White House Christmas tree several years ago. Political affiliation has no bearing on acceptance. They also weren't impressed on how many Funny Cars he had built.
So the wooden buck was just one more arena in which he could excel.
Bob, the next time I go to Hume's place I'll do some shots of his eggs and the engine.
FREUD
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OH GOD
I feel like such a hack
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One of my youngest daughter's most precious possessions is a beautifully crafted jewelry box that Jim made for her.
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OH GOD
I feel like such a hack
me too........ I walk into a room full of unreconstructed hacks ....someone says ..."look at that hack"....everytime I see this car or anything to do with it I just ogle at it and think "aw my gawd"...it's just incredible.....
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Freud, thanks to you (and Marlo and Hume of course) for sharing this in so much depth.
As you know, I put my respect and admiration for your trigger finger as being second to nobody's when it comes to the care & history of this passion. You have not "recorded" history like so many others.. you have "created" history and documented it from the heart along the way like no other. What you've given me (me especially) in terms of history, is visually and audibly incomparable(if other's only knew what your passion from way back and care from today has done for me!), and what many of us would think is non existent until we see it... seeing is believing and you have certainly SHOWN me!
Between you, Jack D., Scott G., Glen B., Warner, Joe T., Dan W., Cook, Folgy, Keith, Carl, Sum, Stainless, Jon W. and many others that are from the heart speakers (not to mention all those at Maxton and John Beckett that led me here a lot more in depth then we would of been otherwise at this point).... there is just nothing more someone can ask for from this sport then hearing and seeing those that wish they knew, if they didn't - and you are the ones.
Anyways, my major appreciattion for things like this thread right here.... today is tommorow's history and (like you've made me part of 40 year old history), everyone reading this is now part of it thanks to you.
This sums up the simplicity of it all(as in it's not always just about being on the course) -
Hume took a break and went out to feed the neighbors buffalo.
Thanks my friend, can't wait to give ya a big hug this summer(yeah I know.. after Deb :roll:)!
Todd
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It's obvious that the end goal of this project is a car. Hume's talents in metal fabrication have been demonstrated many times and ways. But....the entire project started in wood. The model was a wood project. That presented no extra learning curve for Jim. He has been a wood carver for years. The wood cabinets in his home are to die for. He has developed this skill from the time he worked in his father's cabinet shop. I doubt that many people received the quality in their cabinets that he now considers his standard. His standards are beyond practical. He does not use sandpaper on his wood projects. The finishes are generated by planes and knives. He makes his own blades and for "gifts" for a visiting group of wood carvers from Japan who came to his home to meet him, he made each of them a small (2 1/2" long) functioning plane. The blades are so sharp that with the proper adjustment and certain wood, the chip is probably 0.002" thick. He presented each visitor with their own plane in small boxes that he constructed. So, he's known to a very exclusive group of carvers from around the world.
Talent in one arena is one thing but talent in multiple arenas is something else. This dude excels in whatever he does.
I forgot to tell you. He had a wooden egg on the White House Christmas tree several years ago. Political affiliation has no bearing on acceptance. They also weren't impressed on how many Funny Cars he had built.
So the wooden buck was just one more arena in which he could excel.
Bob, the next time I go to Hume's place I'll do some shots of his eggs and the engine.
FREUD
Although you'd still want a conventional rollcage, it would be very practical to build an all wood car. The Mosquito, an all plywood airplane, was one of the fastest prop driven planes in WWII. Back in the sixties, the Marcos company in England made some very successful small displacement sports cars based on a plywood monocoque chassis.
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... and then there were the gliders used on D Day.......... they were not much for landing, and I don't think I would want to do a barrell roll in a plywood LSR car either. Toothpick's anyone? Anyone? :-D
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... and then there were the gliders used on D Day.......... they were not much for landing, and I don't think I would want to do a barrell roll in a plywood LSR car either. Toothpick's anyone? Anyone? :-D
Plywood doesn't rust when exposed to salt.
The only part of the car that needs to survive a crash is the rollcage.
The last two boats to hold the World Water Speed Record, Lee Taylor's Hustler and Ken Warby's Spirit of Australia, were both wood.
Wood hulls are considered the cadillac of rides in Grand Prix/Formula One boats. Composite hulls are the ones racers in these classes buy when they can't afford a good wood hull.
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Marlo tried to get Noah to build it but he didn't return the text messages.
Sorry Franklin.
Freud
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These four images came from the same disc as the previous posts. These were shot in December 2003.
I mentioned Hume's wood working skills. This buck is a marvelous example of his craftsmanship.
I will be going to his house this week and while I am there I'll see about some shots of his artistry in wood.
Drury asked for shots of his Olds engine model. I'll post that in a new thread, separate from Treit's build.
Image 25
The stack of plywood on the dolly are the bulkheads that establish the shape at different stations along the length of the car.
Image 27
The piece in Hume's left hand is the last piece of the tail. The holes for the chute cans will be cut into that area.
Image 33
The pieces to the left of the shot, with the vertical attached pieces establish the stations where the patterns attach.
There is a pair of bulkheads for each station. The assembled piece, to the right, is the shape of the right side of the car that butts against the center panel that is leaning against the car body.
Image 35
This is just a view from the front of the same structure that is in Image 33. These were the pieces that were provided to Steve's Auto Restoration, in Portland, Or, that they used to form the back section of the car.
I know that this presentation is out of sequence but if you review the previous posts,some of them way back, it will all fit together.
Enjoy and THANK YOU for your interest.
FREUD
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These fotos are from the archives. They were done before the skin was even started and are relative to the blower drive.
Well I have been posting on this build diary for a long time but today I can't figure out how to attach the fotos. I'll do some research and see if I can get back on track.
Sorry for the useless post.
FREUD
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2nd attempt at attaching fotos.
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3rd attempt
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Hi Freud,
Thanks for posting those pictures. After seeing the pictures am I correct is saying the blowers will be belt driven?
Thanks again,
Tom G.
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Tom, with all the luck Marlo had in the past with belts, what else would he use :roll: (the lakester broke a belt almost every run for those that do not know)
Freud, the older I get the more you seem to forget :-D Thanks for the pics.
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Hi Stainless,
You are correct on the belt life, but as I recall Marlo was running a PSI at the time and not a Whipple. Reason I am pointing that out is that an Early PSI like Marlo ran only has about 375 cubic inches of volume per revolution. The Whipple on the other hand has around 555 cubic inches of volume per revolution. Pretty big difference when it comes to overdrive needed to get the same boost. On the Whipple you don't need as small a pulley on the blower as you do a PSI, which helps belt life, and the problem associated with them coming off when running big cubic inch motors and lots of boost.
I thought Marlo had Les Davenport build him a planatary overdrive that bolted on to the blower to slow the belt down, and that help cure the problem. Or maybe I am thinking of someone else.
Tom G.
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Tom.....balls on. Les did build the overdrive and that solved the problem instantly. Their first run made it thru the 3 and Les clicked it. That was the first time they ever made it thru the mile. The reason their 1/4 speed was so high, above 312, was so they could get a number thru the mile w/o running that far. So after the first successful run w/the OD they decided that Marlo was up for the possibility of sacrificing another engine and so they ran the belt a second time. It lived. Speed went up also. I don't think they have ever tried for 3 passes. All they really want to know is that they can make a down and back w/o replacing the belt. Besides, Les complains about his ears ringing when they pop a blower. One explosion rounded ALL THE BODY panels behind the roll bar and Les couldn't hear for a long time.
So, they have the belt problem solved to the satisfaction of both Marlo and Les. Les can also turn the volume down on his iPod. I think he's a fan of the Boston Pops.
Now if they can build some fuel mileage......LOL
FREUD
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Hi Freud,
Thanks for the post. Glad to hear I don't have alzheimer's yet. LOL. Anyway thanks for posting more pictures of the World's most fantastic Streamliner ever built IMO.
Tom G.
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From what your description sounds like Freud, Les had been listening the the "Bonneville pops"!!!!!
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I have added some images, without descriptions, to Marlo's website. My education has just started in the site but as time passes I'll have a better handle on it. Then there will be either individual comments for each foto or a paragraph that describes the images. In the near future I will try to make the posts all chronological with it beginning WAY WAY back
I haven't squared the Wheel Fairing post away yet. It requires too much scrolling. Be patient and I'll get it fixed soon.
www.target550.com
Now I won't have to load Jon's site with as much trash.
Have a safe and sane July 4th and God, Please Bless the USA.
FREUD
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Hume's incredible craftsmanship continues to dazzle us all.
Freud, does this attachment look familiar?
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Apparently someone knew me in my youth but I can't tell you where or when that was shot.
U got me.
My wife just washed the screen of my laptop to make me look better.
FREUD
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We've not met but I wuz there near the scene and there wuz SALT underneath your feet and - this may be a stretch w/o research -Jerry Ford may have been President.
He was, and at least I didn't say LINCOLN!
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How in the hell did you know it was me from so long ago. Who's trailer is in the background? Did Treit have a car there that time?
Youis a bugger.
THANX
fERd
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My wife just washed the screen of my laptop to make me look better.
FREUD
I washed the screen on my laptop... didn't help!
Geo
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Geo....try using NITRO.
I need every bit of help that's available.
My Witness Protection counselor didn't even recognize me.
FREUD
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Now that I have learned how to make wine I probably won't post as frequently.
These fotos are from prior shoots.
The first foto shows some of the very limited Dzuz fastners in the car. These attach the chute canister to the chassis.
The always present vise grips hold the skin section to the buck. This is at the mounting point of the air brake.
Back side view.
Extreme rear view of tail.
FREUD
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Last 2 fotos of this section.
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Sorry for the long delay. I'll be with Marlo this weekend and will post an interview within the next week.
While we were at the Gas Up, Marlo told me that the entire front drive unit, excluding the differential, was being reengineered and manufactured. That will include new axles and the steering knuckles, hubs and spindles. He is supposed to receive the engineering drawings and specifications this week and they will discuss any changes that are needed. This change started when the 6000 RPM wheel speed was related to the joint that is necessary to allow steering thru the driven wheels. A serious concern developed to the ability to keep the joint flexible at that RPM and not bind the steering.
He figures one month will be the manufacturing time.
Thanks for your interest.
FREUD
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When do they plan on running the car for the first time at Bonneville?
What a magnificent piece of workmanship!!!
Jim Keeler
artmodelman@yahoo.com
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I can't answer WHEN.
I'm only the messenger.
The KING is harvesting the grapes this time of the year.
FREUD
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New technology has brought us to re-evaluate the front end of the streamliner. Porsche joints were initially used but the speeds for which they were designed is much lower than this car's needs. It is possible that the heavy balls could bind and lock the joint. It would then be impossible to steer the car.
Mark Williams, in Colorado, has now refined the Greek coupler to allow constant lubrication and an angle of up to 10 degrees for steering, and still remain flexible at a speed that will allow 550+ MPH. ( 6000 Wheel RPM) This guarantees steering with the gear ratios that are available in an application matching the need of the Treit liner.
The axles to which these couplers will be attached are being engineered and manufactured. The original manufacturing company has backed out of the design and production of their proposed system. They guaranteed their ability to produce a system that would meet the requirements of this project but have recently decided that they would not take the responsibility for the liability for these requirements. Williams has developed the material because of the increased stress incurred in todays drag racing cars.
Williams invested in the equipment that was needed to meet these requirements. They certainly are backing this racers needs.
The new design insures the ability to steer the car at the goal speed.
This is the first application of a Greek coupler in a high speed steering system. There is zero tolerance for deflection in a system like this. These speeds have never before been generated in a driven wheel that is also required to steer the vehicle. There is no prior system to modify. This is a first time application that has no room for error when the surface speed is a mile every 6.55 seconds.
The couplers that top fuel and funny cars use today can be manufactured with a crown on the male fitting. It can't bind and is easier to keep it lubricated because the female side can have a seal. It could possibly be run wet like the latest trailer wheel bearings. It is not a change that can be seen, but since we only have 3 degrees of steering to begin with, it must always work.
Ball bearings will replace the previously supplied taper bearings. Longer life and less rolling resistance has dictated the change. The new hubs that have been designed also have larger ball bearings.
These changes also require redesigning and manufacturing the spindles.
All of this is being handled by Mark Williams.
The foto is of the original hub.
FREUD
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Freud,
I noticed in your description of the new steering components for the Treit liner that larger dia. wheel bearings of ball bearing design replaced the original smaller bearings. When I think of bearings getting larger in high speed applications I get concerned for exceeding the maximum rpm (surface speed of the bearing) recommended by the manufacture. This is easy to do, but they have some pretty smart people working on this project so I am sure that that was considered. Still spares in the trailer might be a good plan!
BHarmon
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BHarmon....your response is greatly appreciated. I'll make certain that this is brought up with the design team and get their comments.
Thanks for your interest in the project.
FREUD
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Freud,
Glad to hear Mark Williams is involved. He is very knowledgable when it comes to drivetrain parts. I aways wondered why more people don't use the Greek coupler for different ways to transmit power. They are almost bulletproof.
Tom G.
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If I get access to any engineering drawings or better yet to the new parts, I'll post them on here.
Desotoman, Marlo is constantly looking for any technology or parts concepts that will improve the design. That relates to systems already installed as well as ones in the future. That's how the Greek coupler came into play. If a new item comes available that will add reliability or safety to the car, the prior system will be replaced with the new product.
I too will be waiting for some more progress.
FREUD
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I`m going through "Up-date withdrawal" .....Anything new?? :cheers: J.B.
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Within the next week there will be new images. The new front end was promised for December and it's now promised for this week.
FREUD
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Planning any tours prior to the reunion?
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If you are asking about seeing Treit's 'liner, the answer is no. It's at Hume's shop and it's 250 miles one way.
There are several possibilities in the Portland area.
Evergreen Air Museum has now completed their I-Max theater and their missile display. (sprucegoose.org)
There is a Toy Museum in Portland and the lady will open on Saturday if there is any interest. That's a NO Charge deal.
The So Cal Speed Shop is in Portland.
Salem Speed Shop, an old time establishment. www.salemspeedshop.com
I'll try to have a flyer ready when you check in.
FREUD
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Marlo and I will be at the SCTA banquet this Saturday, Jan 31.
Look for us if you want to talk streamliner.
FREUD
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Interested Bystander gave me a 1960 Hot Rod yesterday. It had a picture of a guy named Marlo Treit on a strange-looking dual-engined bike at a regional meet at Kent. Got this picture, Freud?
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Being a newbie---how am I going to recognize you Freud??????????? :?
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Remember the mad scientist guy in Back To The Future? Thats close. If your wife is with you watch out for his hands.................. :evil:
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Sparky, I think he said he and Marlo so look for the 2 shortest guys in the room... If there are several pairs, then sort by ugly... :-D :cheers:
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look for a short Edward G. Robinson!! That's our Freud!!
Lynda
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Another way to find him refers back to having your wife/girlfriend with you. To find Freud -- look at her cleavage or other "private parts" -- then follow backwards from her to his eyes. Should be a straight, very direct, probably short, line.
Not that I blame him, understand. . . It'll work!
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My name will be on my skirt...... I mean shirt.
No one else will have platform shoes like Treit's.
FREUD
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D A M N..........Sparky found me w/o even knowing me.
He wanted to borrow a chew.
FREUD
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you meam CHAW dont you :-D
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SPARK....u always is rite.
Sorry, I lost my head.
FREUD
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I think I will show that respones to my wife--- :evil: ---then again I think I will not---- :-D
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Freud,
I just tried to acess the website but nothing comes up. Is it down by chance, or am I doing something wrong?
Thanks,
Tom G.
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Freud,
I just tried to access the website but nothing comes up. Is it down by chance, or am I doing something wrong?
Thanks,
Tom G.
I have also tried to access the site, but it comes up to a sales site with an alligator.
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It's now up and running again.
Pete
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Thanks for your interest and patience.
I can only report what is provided.
Marlo has had the entire front drive redone by Williams Enterprises in Louisville, Colorado.
Just like when we work in our garage attached to our house, the completion schedule is never faster than anticipated.
Here are the recent replies from them.
Feb 12
Marlo,
First of all let me thank you for letting me tackle this project. Unfortunately it hasn't come together as quickly as I had hoped and I take responsibility for that. I have attached a few photos of the parts as they have been completed. One thing that slowed things a bit was me going back after the initial design and adding retaining/locking features to ensure there would be no issues with loosening fasteners etc. The last photos shows one of these features. This part retains the alignment ball in the crowned coupler. To keep the allen bolts from loosening a groove to install a spiral lock ring over the heads of the bolts was added to the design. There were several other areas where I added something to lock and/or retain fasteners or parts. We are also working on/refining the process for cutting the crowned gear. I will continue to send photos as we get closer to completion. Thank you for your patience and I promise the wait will be worth it.
Thanks again,
Bret
Feb 19
Marlo,
Inner and outer shafts are thru heat treat and bearing journals have been ground. It looks like I will start assembling the first hub this afternoon.
I have attached a couple more photos. These are the inner (crowned teeth) and outer shafts. They are in heat treat as I'm writing this. Final grinding is all that remains after heat treat. I've got my fingers crossed that I can start assembly next week. I have one part (spindle nut lock) at our laser cutter, should be here Mon or Tues. I'll give you an update once I start putting everything together.
Bret
In my opinion, the fotos are too small to attach and show any detail. As soon as these parts arrive, I will do the fotos and attach them to this diary.
The car is now at Hume's shop and the tail section of the body is being completed. I have some fotos to attach that were done a week ago. Between an eye surgery Wednesday and Chardonnay, the keys of this computer have apparently moved. I hope you can decipher these attachments.
THe first frame shows the frame for the skin adjacent to the drivers compartment on the left side of the car.
In the second image there are 4 tubes with white plastic bushings on each end. These are the points that will attach the panel to the car and will have sliders within them that retain the panel and will allow a quick release. All of these complicated systems are to facilitate the quick turnaround required by the FIA record rules.
My next post will show the mechanism that will accomplish the rapid panel removal if necessary.
Thanks for your patience and continued interest.
Marlo is just as anxious as anyone to complete this project, so hold your breath an keep watching.
If the delay bothers you, send money and prayers.
FREUD
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If you have questions or comments, feel free to post them.
This is the project of Marlo's lifetime and I'll answer what I can and I'll get the answers from him or Hume that I can't supply.
THANKS,
FREUD
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Freud,
Thanks for posting the new information. Glad to see things are progressing. Tell Marlo I said Hi and that the liner looks great.
Tom G.
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Tom, we appreciate your continuing interest.
DESOTO forever.
FREUD for Marlo
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Can't wait to see the finished project. Any ideas of when it might see the salt? :cheers:
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New to site and i must say this is as awesome as it gets. What a work of art on this build, thanks for letting all to see. I will be starting a build shortly on my shops Trans am, it'll be my first of this kind, with hopes to make it to Bonneville and meet a great group of gear heads.
Tim
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tbcworks, in the build diary thread read Getting Ready for Bonnevile.
It is an amazing story and can lend a lot of info for you.
They kept their tools in the fire for a long time and the results are beautiful.
FREUD
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Hume feels that he still has a year to finish his part of the car.
FREUD
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tbcworks, in the build diary thread read Getting Ready for Bonnevile.
It is an amazing story and can lend a lot of info for you.
They kept their tools in the fire for a long time and the results are beautiful.
FREUD
Thanks Freud we appreciate the compliment :-D
JL222 :cheers:
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tbcworks, in the build diary thread read Getting Ready for Bonnevile.
It is an amazing story and can lend a lot of info for you.
They kept their tools in the fire for a long time and the results are beautiful.
FREUD
Yes, thanks it means a lot. :-D
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I am posting four fotos w/o any explanations. You can see the relationships of the parts.
In the next day or so I will do an additional post related to the clevices and the tubes that cnnect these parts to
make the attachment and release mechanism for the drivers compartment side panels.
I hope you learn something from these fotos.
I am going to the Bakersfield March Meet and the day I return I will have my second eye surgery. Don't be
surprised if my posting time line is extended.
FREUD
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Atticus Robertson,V, machines the male and female clevis joints for the cockpit panel retainers. (I have no idea what tunes are on the
I-Pod but the volume eliminates the squealing sound when the end mill runs short of lubricant.) Both the male and female joints are
machined from the same stock stud. Multiple length threaded linkage rods will have the finished clevices screwed in place to be
attached to the sliders.
The square hole receives a 3/8” ratchet wrench. It is inside the cockpit and acuates the bell crank that releases two retainer sliders.
When the panel is secured in place the crank will be horizontal.
The external cockpit skins are 3003 H14. That skin is not shown in these fotos.
The aluminum ribs of the panels are 5052 H32. This material was chosen to provide strength and as much resistance to salt water as
possible. Before the inner panels are attached to the ribs, all the internal surfaces will be spray coated.
FREUD
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I have had several questions about the blower mounts and drives. There are limited angles for me to foto that section
but I will post 3 images and even though the crank pulley and belt aren't in place, you can get an idea of the setup.
Remember, the drive is thru the back of the blower to keep the rotation proper.
You can also see the burst panel on the blower.
My prior posts are very similar to these views. There has been no work done in this area for a long time.
If I see the complete engine on a stand, with the pulley and brackets, it would be in Oregon, I'll shoot that and post it later.
These are shot from the right side of the car.
FREUD
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I'll be gone until March 12. Gonna see the March Meet Drag Races in Bakersfield, CA
FREUD
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Thanks for the pics, safe travels.
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Hume attended a seminar that was related to efficient Work Flow.
There was a section on Multi-Tasking.
I think he missed the point of the presentation.
His first attempt at M-T was with Spring Clips.
FREUD
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did he ever work for the government?
Kent
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He grew up in the Valley and couldn't pass the clearance requirements.
FREUD
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BULLETIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The new administrations division of Alcohol, Toebacko and Firearms has requested
that HUME write their new efficiency manuel.
He's concerned that they even know who he is.
FREUD
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Post 195 dealt with the retainers for the drivers compartment panels. It is not necessary to remove these panels to service the car so the release mechanism is “sealed off” by 4 small screws. These screws will have to be removed in order for the release to work. Then a small stainless steel handle, The Pickle, with a 3/8” square end will rotate the mechanism and the pins will retract from the panel. There are two of these releases, upper and lower, on each panel. The first foto is the unfinished drivers compartment skin for the left side.
Image 43em.
The left side release mechanism is in the locked position. The skin is actually being held in place in this foto. The chamfered hole is where the retaining screw is inserted. The square hole is where the release handle, The Pickle, is inserted.
The Pickle
Close-up of the retainer.
FREUD
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Looking good Freud. Keep those pictures coming. :cheers:
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Detail of the retainer system on the drivers area panels.
Both the upper and lower panel retainers are shown in this picture. The upper is retracted and the lower is extended. The ends of each are out of focus, so I will show close ups. This is the right side of the car. ( Pretty lame foto. Sorry.)
In the locked position, the plunger is seated in the heat resistant plastic that is attached to the left front of the panel. This will all be enclosed by the inside panel skin. This is the inside of the left side drivers compartment panel.
Right side, upper in the retracted position. These are close ups of the first picture in this post.
Right side lower is extended to retain the panel.
FREUD
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Behind this panel is the drive to the rear end.
The large hole in the upper right is the pick up point.
FREUD
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Having spent the entire evening reading and seeing some of the most superb craftsmanship imaginable, I am left virtually speechless. This is the epitome of Yankee ingenuity and craftsmanship in my humble world. Hume is just unbelievable in his talents. Articus, you are one lucky dude to be among this group of blessed and talented people. Dr. Freud, you have become the Webster dictionary of LSR photos for me, and I am sure Stainless is keeping you honest and on your toes.
Thanks to you all for your efforts and a most enjoyable evening of spectating for a novice like myself.
Respectfully
Jimbo :cheers:
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Women sometimes have a bad hair day. I had a bad foto day today.
I have attached 4 fotos of the inside of the drivers compartment panel.
This is the left side panel. It just shows some of the detail of the inside of that panel.
When all of the fittings are done, the entire assembly will be disassembled, all will be painted
and then reassembled. Then the inner skin will be attached after it is painted.
Many of those small empty holes will be filled with a flush head rivet. When the rivet is bucked and set
the head is flush and does not require any filing to be absolutely flush with the skin.
That just takes time and skill.
I'll post some more fotos soon and try to make them of higher quality.
I wish I had accomplished better fotos to show this detail.
FREUD
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Been trying to work out how to make the decision about which year to journey to Bonneville (big $$$ from here - slowly saving, getting there - and for me it'll be once a lifetime). I reckon the debut of this car will be a worthy goal.
If I go with friends when they ship bikes or a car over, there's the dilemma of being stupidly busy as crew and not having time to wander around.
I can't miss seeing this amazing car and having followed the build story (even if it takes another three years) it will give the trek from Oz some extra meaning.
Bit cheesy, but you've given somebody's saving dollars a sense of purpose!
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PJG, take my word for it. I'll keep everyone advised about the build. Marlo had a reply from the people that have built the new front end. They said they would ship tomorrow. (Friday USA )
Denver is getting snowed on, BIG TIME, tonight. Maybe they will get it to the shipper and maybe they won't. The good part is that these parts are not critical at this time. All the work is being done on the aft half of the car. The assembly can be installed at any time and not be a problem. It's just reassuring to know that one more state of the art assembly has been completed.
I'll try to pick up the pace and do more frequent posts. It's 110 miles roundtrip to do the fotos, so I don't go every day. Once a week is practical.
Thanks to all of you for your interest.
FREUD
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Wow Frued, 110 miles to foto the car :-o for us that is dedication, thank you. We may give you some crap but we do appreciate your efforts. Makes my trips with the old Brownie to Max's place all the way across town seem insignificant.
Keep up the good work.
Do you think Marlo will have the car at home in July? I'm going to Seattle, then down into the Oregon Wine country around the 4th. More on that with you later.
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Stainless, when I see u out here, and behaving properly, we will consider letting u see the project.
Bring a note from your Mother. Without it, you may not be allowed access.
Make certain that your Green Card is current and that your Witness Protection People are not notified.
FREUD
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Freud, don't worry about Stainless's security clearance. While at the Reunion a month ago Jon Amo and I were riding with him -- looking for a store that you had told him about -- and he mentioned his past life as part of the military-industrial complex -- and the super-duper high security clearance he had. Something about being allowed to visit almost any landfill in the nation without even having an armed guard accompany him.
He's okay -==- just ask him.
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Bob, If you have a spare day, I would be glad to take you up to Jim's shop. Thats the good news. The bad news is the Buffalo are gone, however, the b.s. remains....................
When you firm up your schedule, we can see if Jim will be around. Figure on a twelve hour day. Bob
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Thanks Bob and Freud, I have to go by the post office and make sure the pictures are down, then we will see from there...
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I told you people that as soom as I had any information about the updated front end components I would post it. Marlo receved this info and these fotos.
FREUD
Marlo,
I have attached a couple more photos. These are the inner (crowned teeth) and outer shafts. They are in heat treat as I'm writing this. Final grinding is all that remains after heat treat. I've got my fingers crossed that I can start assembly next week. I have one part (spindle nut lock) at our laser cutter, should be here Mon or Tues. I'll give you an update once I start putting everything together.
Bret
Bret Goethe
Mark Williams Enterprises
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WOW.
I've been hearing about this car but this is the first time I've seen anything of it.
Awe inspiring.
In the dictionary by craftsmanship there should be a picture of this car.
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The sheet metal is being fitted from the cowl back right now.
The canopy is large enough that with the desired speeds there will be tremendous pressure on the canopy, wind screen area.
So there is a support piece to go inside the canopy area. With the curves to match the inside shape of the windscreen area and the
number of welds, it is difficult to keep the support piece in exact contact with the canopy. This piece is extremely close to being perfect.
In the following fotos I'll show how the support piece will be attached to the canopy release mechanism.
FREUD
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With the canopy and support positioned on the chassis I can describe the drivers viewing area. The felt pen defined vertical area will be the approximate height of the drivers view. It will extend toward the periphery probably as much as 10" on each side. The windshield area will start small and be enlarged. There are several different materials being considered for the windshield.
The second shot is a view from inside. Near the bottom of the foto is the hinge and release knob. The hinge and release were discussed earlier.
FREUD
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Just to keep the the end result in mind, here's a shot of the model.
FREUD
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Just to keep the the end result in mind, here's a shot of the model.
FREUD
Freud,
I look at that picture every day as it is by my computer. I cannot wait until Marlo is finally ready to run. When he does I will be there.
Tom G.
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Tom, I promise, You will be well informed as that day gets closer.
FREUD
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Boy -- that's some rough-looking salt! The clusters must be 3 or 4 inches high!
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Well, not really. The model is only about 4" or 4 1/2" tall. I just didn't smooth the salt with Photoshop.
The model is either 1/10 or 1/12 scale.
FREUD
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One foto I overlooked.
FREUD
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Freud,
That is a GREAT looking photo!!! Keep them coming!!! :cheers:
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I'm going to leave the canopy work update for a few posts. This is new info to me and so I will pass it on now and return to the canopy area later.
I have referred to the upgrade of the front drive that was being done at Mark Williams Enterprises in Louisville, Colorado.
Marlo's contact as the work progressed was through Bret Goethe. Just as in any special build, the time line was established and it had to be extended. That makes the deal a lot like Christmas. It can't get there soon enough. Christmas has arrived and the toys are loaded in the sleigh and ready to depart.
Bret sent some images ahead of the shipping. I will post them and when I go to Oregon next weekend I will get a description from Marlo and post that relative to each foto.
I will start with the new hub assembly.
So now, just like us waiting for Christmas, look at the gifts, draw your own conclusions and I will fill in with the info I get from Marlo.
Thank's for being patient.
FREUD
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Putting them together.
FREUD
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As always, Top-notch work. Where did the steering knuckle originate? Looks industrial. J.B.
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As close as I can tell, at this time, the parts started as Ford Bronco.
I'll post a correction if I find out something different.
FREUD
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The last look at the hub assembly until I see the parts next weekend.
FREUD
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Take a look at the framed art work on the walls
One of these times, I'll do some shots of that part of Hume's shop.
Then I'll also include the ivy plant, recently pruned, that runs along the ceiling.
It's an interesting shop developed by an interesting man.
FREUD
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Look at post #225. The right hand side of the image is where this next change has occurred.
The two curved pieces of aluminum will be the pivot point for the canopy. The sub frame now has
four new pieces tacked in place and those pieces will slide over the hinge.
There are holes drilled into the sub frame mounts thru which the attachment screws will pass.
FREUD
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First view of the inside canopy latch.
I'll explain more later. Friday I will return to Humes for a meeting between Hume, Treit and Les Davenport.
I'll have fotos from that meeting.
FREUD
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Answers to several questions:
A Bronco furnished the production cast front end pieces.
The windshield will be made from LEXAN.
I talked to Marlo Treit at Hume's shop this afternoon. It was a high level meeting of Treit, Les Davenport designated driver, engineering adviser and fabricator of special parts, Bob Harris, special coatings consultant, both from Calgary, Canada, Dickie Milne, Jim Hume and newest associate at Hume's shop, Jason Hosking who brings high level fabricating skill to the project.
One of the concerns was the determining of the windshield height in the canopy and a plan for speeding up the project.
It was an exciting afternoon for me.
Pictures will be posted soon.
FREUD
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Thanks for all the updated photos Freud!!! :cheers:
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Most important things first.
The gardner or the goat must have visited the ivy plant. It doesn't go along the ceiling any longer.
I'll post mechanical things this evening.
FREUD
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Refer to post 233. That showed the canopy support frame and the plates that bolted to the canopy hinge.
This foto shows the support bolted to the hinge.
The ball that screws on to the release handle is not attached to the 1/4 20 thread on the release. It's the same as the one that is on
the canopy release lever.
The other horizontal image is the front side of the canopy hinge and the latch. The upper horizontal bolt is the pivot point for the canopy.
FREUD
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I'm not worthy.
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For those of you who think that Jim Humes craftsmanship on Marlo's car or the fuel tanks he builds for John Force, et al, are as good as it gets, you are all wrong. His hand carved Fabrage' egg's are worthy of any fine art museum in the world.........................as is the wind tunnel model of the car..........
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Bob is correct
One of Hume's eggs ended up on the White House Christmas tree.
His wood work is exquisite and he is known world wide as a carver.
FREUD
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(http://www.artwoodgallery.com/members/hume3.jpg)
(http://www.artwoodgallery.com/members/hume4.jpg)
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These are the basic pieces for the canopy latch. One bolt is the pivot point and the other is for the slider. The black knob is the same as the one on the front canopy hinge.
The top piece is the pivot point (the blurry one) The lower is the plunger that secures the canopy.
The upper bolt (black nut) is the pivot point and the lower bolt inserts into the slider for the plunger. The latch will lift up to open the canopy from the outside and on the inside, the handle will pull back to secure the canopy.
FREUD
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Wolcottjl, you did a good job of research.
The eggs are approximately 4" tall. You can't slide a piece of paper between the egg and the surrounding carrier.
No sandpaper is used in the finishing.
FREUD
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Both sides of the car. The center panels are where the wheels are located.
Treit and Davenport.
FREUD
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Wolcottjl, you did a good job of research.
The eggs are approximately 4" tall. You can't slide a piece of paper between the egg and the surrounding carrier.
No sandpaper is used in the finishing.
FREUD
Freud,
Woodworking is a hobby of mine. I had heard of Hume's eggs long before I read about his build up. I just didn't put 2 and 2 together.
Joel (Guy that took up shop in SSS pit with the 2 boys that you met at Speedweek last year)
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Hume's, like the late Jocko Johnson's, forte is more the artist than the fabricator. Or maybe ,equally, artist meshes with fabricator.
I understand that since Jocko's passing people are clamoring to find/buy his furniture and free-form sculpture.
Remember seeing his chairs years ago at LA's prestigious Pacific Design Center where the joints were held together with countersunk aircraft screws and aluminum plates- technology mixing with art!
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Establishing the position and size of the windshield.
The slot is only to establish the height of the windshield.
FREUD
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Go back to page 2, reply #26 or 27. There are fotos that relate to this part of the build.
First foto The two flat pieces with the vertical slot are where the air brake will deploy. The diagonal line on the bottom of the aft portion of the flat piece is where it will be cut to allow a smooth attachment joint for the next piece of the tail section.
2nd foto This is the opposite side of the same two pieces. Note the notch in the vertical piece, where the black part of the frame protrudes. That is required because the skin is so close to the frame in that location that the support panel had to be relieved to keep the contour correct. The area from the wooden buck on the right to the vertical frame member forward is the most complex part of the entire body skin. It is the transition point where the curve starts to come into the narrowing of the tail section.
Look at the air brake on page two. You can see how the panels will deploy thru the vertical slot in these fotos. The countersunk holes in the back of the panel are the attachment holes for the air brake. You can only see two of them, just above the silver portion of the c-clamp.
My next post will conclude the canopy retainer assembly. It is completed except for the outer release plate that can't be done until the canopy is completed. Today the canopy support frame was taken apart because the flashing (attachment plates) caused the upper portion of the canopy to stand off the support plate by 0.060". The canopy will be shrunk and the inner support will be refitted. Sometimes it's two inches ahead and one inch back to make this puzzle look so simple when it's done.
There are pictures way back on the very early posts that relate to this area. Go back and take a look. More in a day or two.
I was told Monday that the front end parts have just shipped from Denver. That will be another Christmas package when it's opened. I'll show that and the explanation as soon as it comes up here.
FREUD
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These images show the canopy latch as it is when the canopy os closed and open. There is a spring inside that always returns the plunger to the secured position.
Jason Hosking, a new employee in Hume's shop, is holding it open in the removed canopy shot. Jason's experience in metal shaping is welcome on this project.
FREUD
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Would you people that open these foto files let me know whether you like the files image size larger, as in the past, or the smaller size as these last several postings.
Just tell me 900 or 1000 size.
Is the detail adequate to satisfy you in the fotos? It's a matter of not using too much of Landracing.com bandwidth and size on your
monitors. I don't want Nancy's old man to kick me off.
Send me an e-mail fotofreud@aol.com. Do it with e-mail. It's easier than a PM.
I'll do whatever is the majority vote. While u are at it, let me know what you like and what you don't like, where your interest is, small
detail, overall project or some specific area of the build. If you want to ask a question, please feel free to do that. I may take a day or
two before I reply. If it's to settle a bet, state what my share is before I answer, especially if u explain the bet.
I just had a call from Marlo. The new front end has been lost in shipping between Denver and Wilsonville, Oregon. He's perturbed.
This new LSR vehicle is front steer, independent rear brakes, candy apple red and still on warranty. I have applied for a low SCTA
number to make it easier to attach to the basket. I may have to add ballast because it was built for racing in grocery stores and
uncontrolled slippage could happen. Check that padded roll bar. Dan Warner has created a class for a single entry. A case of suds
stripped his duds.
FREUD
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Do not apply to drive the new LSR vehicle.
Bob Drury has outbid all possible candidates.
FREUD
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:-o :-o :-o Unacceptable roll cage!! Crow
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Pic size is fine for me. Keep it up. Great info. SB
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Where's the drool catcher? Actually I am just the front for Dolan...........he vows to return to the salt.
R.I.P. Chet............. :cry:
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This new LSR vehicle is front steer, independent rear brakes, candy apple red and still on warranty. I have applied for a low SCTA
number to make it easier to attach to the basket. I may have to add ballast because it was built for racing in grocery stores and
uncontrolled slippage could happen. Check that padded roll bar. Dan Warner has created a class for a single entry. A case of suds
stripped his duds.
FREUD
The classes for this
F TMF Female Two Moving Feet
M TMF Male Two Moving Feet
D SMF Drunken Slow Moving Feet
F LSMF Female Long Shopping Moving Feet
M SMF Male Shopping Moving Feet
I don't know what minimum the SCTA will set for them, but if you be faster than 1 mph in the D SMF you will be disqualified.... :-D
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This vehicle will pass inspection, at Salt Talks, immediately.
Zip lock bags will be provided to hold your 50/50 tickets. Just deposit them in the basket.
Free cleaning as you leave the salt, at the end of the meet, by the firemen.
Guaranteed records the first time you run. Barrett can sleep during your run and still announce the time
at the end of his nap.
SCTA has no control over "buying a ride and a record" in Porkpie's classes.
FREUD
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Have you thought about adding a sidecar?
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Brilliant suggestion. That would double the number of classes.
What's the address of SCTA?
For setting a record you get a hair net.
FREUD
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He can breath again.
"The trucking company found the parts and I got them this afternoon. No damage and it is really nice."
marlo
I'll post the fotos of this major mod as soon as I shoot them
FREUD
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Freud
The only problem with Bob D. driving he would spin it out pushing off the starting line. Might be to much for him to handle. Maybe the propster could add a rubber band driven propeller to it. Just a thought. :-D :evil:
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Freud, don't worry about how much bandwidth you're using (well, don't worry too much). Since last fall's shootout coverage I've had the site running on a bigger system -- because of all the folks that were online at that time. There's room now for your photos. Thanks to everyone for making the site as popular as it is.
As for the shopping cart-liner -- you aren't the first, and there's likely to be some real competition. How could you have forgot about Judy Sight's cart? She's the "Baglady" that goes through the car lines awaiting inspection. She passes out paperwork and other necessaries to all going to inspection. Her cart has many miles on it from doing duty for years. You'll have to hide some nitrous in the tubing, I expect, with nozzles for the operator, if you're hoping to win out over her more skilled operation of the thing.
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I would like a little rules clarification on whether the M or F operator is allowed to wear Talledega Nikes or has to use run of the mill Wall Mart, made in china skinny tennys. The wide Talledegas may give the D class an unfair advantage in balance retention.
Ron
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:-o :-o Please don't get into the aero dynamic issues!!! Crow.o
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I asked for a ruling regarding Kaopectate.
The SCTA board ruled it was not a fuel. They considered it a lubricant.
That allows many more entries in the gas class.
FREUD
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:? Do you use KY jelly in the trans?? Seems it would be good for the reverse gearing! Crow
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Freud,
Have the motor's been built yet? Any dyno time? Are there plans to run them for any length of time on the dyno to check out the front drives etc?
Thanks,
Tom G.
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The engines are built and just recently Marlo and Les have discussed dyno time for them. They were developed for the Treit and
Davenport lakester. The lakester was the "mule" for refining equipment for the 'liner. In my opinion, the drives are totally reliable. The
belt system was severely tested on the lakester. Several parameters were established that gave a realistic guide as to the capability of
the belts. I am trying to imagine what the dyno adapter would look like to test the drive as it is in the 'liner and I will just wait to see how
Les answers that situation. Dyno testing will be in Calgary, Canada, but I will be there when it's conducted, if my Witness Protection
Officer will allow me to travel.
I spoke with Marlo tonight and he is ecstatic over the new front end that was delivered to him yesterday, after a prolonged time. Add to
the time for building the parts, a screw up in the delivery by the freight company, and you may feel his frustration. All's well that ends
well.
Compare it to a brides wedding dress being lost at the cleaners.
Several things may keep me from posting fotos of the assembly for a couple weeks. A soon as I can, I will.
Tom, thanks for asking.
FREUD
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SSS, Drury's main concern is if Judy Sight's decides to run NAKED.
He can't get up for that class change.
FREUD
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No comment.
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I will post several shots of the new front drive this afternoon.
FREUD
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Re: FWD Streamliner differentials
On the Treit streamliner build I have some questions to ask BEFORE I post his new front drive-steering system.
Having read thru this post, I better be prepared for I am certain that I will be quizzed.
I'll study before I take the test questions.
I only have fotos of the entire assembly in the shipping box. I do not have a breakdown or neither have I
asked any questions about the drive system. I do know that the concern that prompted this update related to
the ability to steer with a wheel speed of 6000 RPM. A lockup in the steering assembly because of the RPM
would be catastrophic.
FREUD
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Strike me down.....OK?
I couldn't wait. This was like Christmas in April when the box arrived.
Hold your questions. I have no answers for you but I do have these two fotos.
The splined stub shaft in the first foto points toward the engine. The change gears are at the extreme front of
the car.
The two views are just from the front and back of the assembly.
When I have more info or even fotos of the individual parts, I'll post them.
It will likely be several weeks before this assembly is taken to Hume's place and bolted into the chassis. I
know I'll be there for that.
FREUD
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Freud,
Looking good. Tell Marlo way to go.
Tom G.
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D'man..we appreciate your support.
FREUD
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I look for your diary on a daily basis to see what has been done. Can't wait to see and hear it run. :cheers:
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THANKS, bviller.
We will be privileged to hear u run before u have a chance to hear him run.
I certainly respect your car and so do others. Your build site has an amazing number of hits.
FREUD
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I don't know if you have a picture of the Mark Williams drive axles Freud, but Marlo showed me a picture of what basically is a a male-female dragster coupler with a crown shape on the male coupler so that there can be misalignment. This allows the hub to have 5 deg. of steering. I guess it has to have a small mis-alignment when it is going straight so the two parts won't gall together.The Rembrandt of land speed cars. They should be making a docudrama about this car and Marlo's life!!!!!!!!!
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Look back a few pages.
Pete
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The only images that I have were posted in Reply #216.
Mark Williams sent those a while back. I may never get fotos that deep into the assembly unless
for some reason the entire drive is disassembled. I think there may be a set of drawings but I haven't seen them.
FREUD
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Thanks for always keeping us up to date Freud. I like the way that car is coming out!!! :cheers:
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Ryan, I usually always get there on Wednesdays. I go to lunch in Mt Vernon, Wa and that is about 15 milss South of Humes place. Then I go
up there.
There is always progress but the part that is exciting now is the rebuild of the front steering mechanism. Marlo told me tonight that he
plans to replace the wheel studs with cap screws and so it will be a while before he takes it to Humes place. For him it's 290 miles each
way so he doesn't just shuttle back and forth too frequently. Les Davenport will be down again soon. He will fab the connection between
the blowers and the manifolds. I think Marlo and Les will again coordinate their trips. It's one thing to discuss on the fone but something
totally better about eye to eye and right where the car is located.
This is OLD SCHOOL. My recent assignment is to produce "water transfer decals" for the project. It's a learning curve for me and I am
excited to see how many bubbles some people have under them when they make the application. 1955 revisited. That's about where I
hover in this day and age.
Fellows, THANK YOU for your interest.
FREUD
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PM Don Pennington about water transfer decals... http://hotrodmotors.com/ (http://hotrodmotors.com/)
Mike
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Mike, you are clairvoyant. He's our boy.
FREUD
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Well for the people that are smarter than I, there's plenty of you out there, I'll post the pictures that Marlo sent me today.
I have no comments. Glean whatever you can and after I have been briefed I will add comments. Marlo put the assembly on an engine
stand and tore into it.
FREUD
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Another look.
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More of the same.
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Great idea, using the slotted mounting plate for caster adjustment. And please tell Mr. Hume that this old panel beater will be feeling his pain when the time comes to cut that canopy for the w/s installation. :cheers: Jerry
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Last two in this series. These were the new parts but I'll see if I can get better views.
FREUD
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We have a house guest from England for 9 days.
My postings may be infrequent. We are doing tourist trips, and they are not to Hume's.
Just hang with me and I'll add what I can.
FREUD
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Freud,
You have done a great job keeping us up to date with this project. As always, thanks for posting these great pictures for all of us to see. :cheers:
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Ryan, THANX.
It just may be that our guest will get to go to Hume's while she is here. It would be without her making the choice.
I need a fix also.
If so, I'll be reloaded.
Marlo intends to deliver the new front end to Hume's this coming week. I promised I'd be there when that happens.
FREUD
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I want to THANK the 34 people that have searched out this site today with no new posts.
I understand that you had to go to BUILD DIARYS to read it.
We are blessed to have dedicated fans like you.
FREUD
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Freud, Just curious if Marlo is going to run a double sheer steering arms or just the single arms that's on the front drive unit? Thanks for the updates on the build. Its very inspirational. :cheers: Tony
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I'll ask Marlo about the steering.
Thanks for the question.
FREUD
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maguronic....the reply about the steering directly from Marlo.
I've copied his reply.
We will just use a single arm on each side. Slightly tougher than funny car style. 4130 metal.
m/t
FREUD
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I'll be gone for a week starting 5-17 but will try to post some images before then.
Marlo has installed new wheel studs and will try to deliver the drive assembly to Hume before this coming weekend.
If it's before 5-16, I'll be with him to do some images.
THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST.
FREUD
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" Doc, you are a hopeless romantic."
That was a quote from Cook Neilson , the editor of CYCLE MAGAZINE, years ago.
Tonight, I can not dispute that statement.
Today was a day of extreme emotion for me. I have seen this project from the beginning. I remember when I was satisfied to see the frame
when the welding was completed. I commented on what a huge step had been accomplished. That was 7 years ago.
Today, even though there is a tremendous amount of work yet to be done, I had a feeling of near closure. The canopy, with the
windshield area defined, is completed. The complex small section behind the canopy that contains the air brake, is nearing completion.
The panel immediately behind the air brake is being worked. Soon it will be ready to fit. When that is done, the LAST panel of the
body will be finished and fitted. It's rather like bringing home the wedding dress and the wedding is still months away.
As I drove away, in a downpour, all I could remember was the foto of the fitted side panels and the canopy. The canopy is a piece to
behold. It's a shame that any of it will be removed to allow the windshield to be fitted. It has the beauty of a naked female form. The
curves are without blemish and it's like a naked woman walking from the shower to the bed. The curves change with every step and
only emotion can define the sensation. Words are not adequate. I am overwhelmed and if it's possible I will convey those feelings to all
of you. I don't really feel adequate. It's been a long time coming and the alter is still a long ways away Believe me, I am overwhelmed.
One soft light portrait at a time.
FREUD
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Freud,
Thanks for all of your time and effort to keep us up to date on the latest developments on Marlo's liner. Everything looks fantastic.
Tom G.
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Freud:
Great updates and photos Thanks alot. I also have been watching this for the past seven years with anticipation. Can't wait to see it run.
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That car is beautiful! When I saw it 3 years ago I was amazed by the technical aspects... now that it's coming together it's taken on the form of a piece of art, almost like a sculpture. All I can say is... Beautiful.
Freud... after reading your description I've decided to take the afternoon off. Jeeze I hope my wife isn't having tea with the Minister, and his Wife again :wink:
Smitty :cheers:
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This is the support piece for the area of the air brake. It will keep the shape of the piece immediately behind the mounted air
brake. It's only purpose is to make certan that the inside panel is tight against the outer skin. To remove the brake, this
piece will need to be removed. The plywood is the buck that gives the exact size and curves to support the panel. The
hammer is adding curve. The one side matches the buck but more work is needed to have both sides in the proper shape.
FREUD
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fantastic build, keep the photos comming. :cheers:
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Jason Hosking is working the panel that's the next to last panel for the tail.
The standard that they decided on was no paint and no filler. Every panel as close to perfect as possible.
FREUD
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Several more views. More fotos early next week.
FREUD
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Thanks Freud,
Your coverage and photos of this fantastic build are great and really appreciated.
Ron
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Freud,
Thanks for keeping us up to date with Marlo's project!!! These are great photos!!! :cheers:
Does Marlo think he might make it to SpeedWeek this year?
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I think Marlo will be with me at Speedweek 2009, but we will be leaving the car at Hume's shop.
We don't know where we will be daily on the salt but we will be at the 6 for the week.
You are all invited. I will also be at Salt Talks, pimpin' for the 50/50 at Salt Talks Sunday night.
FREUD
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When Marlo had the new front end at his shop, he opened it up to be familiar with what was inside. It's easier to get introduced to it in the cool of the shop than in the heat of the salt environment.
I have posted several other shots of the internal components, but this shot, that he did, is new to me.
It shows the pinion support that was attached to the added side plate.
Yes, I can see that he had not retightened one bolt before he did the foto.
FREUD
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My, what a large pinion you have. :-D
Thank you Mr. Freud for continuing to post pictures and updates. :-)
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Size does matter.
FREUD
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I now believe in reincarnation. Michelangelo Buonarroti is reborn and building race cars in Oregon. The Sistine Chapel was just a warmup to test his patience. Bravo Gentlemen. Among the finest ever... :cheers: LSL
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Err, yeah, in re-reading that I see that I se it could be taken in several ways.
I meant it in the:
'My Grandma, what big eyes you got' sense (you know little red riding hood, just a bit of humor :-) ).
Regardless, thatnks for the pics and updates.
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Erik, I thank you. I never thought of it the way you suggested in your later post. Ah, wouldn't it be wonderful to have a completely innocent mind? I wonder if I ever did. . .
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Erik, I thank you. I never thought of it the way you suggested in your later post. Ah, wouldn't it be wonderful to have a completely innocent mind? I wonder if I ever did. . .
Answer: NO!! :evil:
Lynda
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Several looks at the front quick change.
FREUD
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That's the weird part, I usually don't. I generally put my mind in the gutter on purpose, so I know where to find it. :roll:
Not sure what happened there. :?
There was a loony tunes (40s or so) vibe going on in the back of my mind at the time though (no idea where it came from either, Darn that Tex Avery anyway :-P :-D ).
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The first foto shows the area of the air brake. This is the left side of the car. The shiny piece to the right of the fasteners is the piece that Hume was forming with the hammer in a recent post.You can see the longitudinal arm of the air brake inside the slot. Since that does not conform to the external shape of the skin, it requires an additional aluminum piece be fabricated and attached to the arm. The wooden piece that Hume is holding shows the location and shape. The last shot is of the right side of the car with the additional wooden sample in place.
FREUD
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A panel that had been attached to the car for a long time was removed and I found this shot available.
I changed images tonight. This is sharper.
FREUD
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These are the final attachments to the air brake: upper and side wings. These will be finished flush with the outer skin and attached with countersunk stainless steel screws. In order to remove the air brake, the attachments have to be removed.
FREUD
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Freud, I seem to recall Marlo telling me that the air brakes could/would be deployed in stages. Can you confirm that?
Thanks
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It's an all or nothing deal. There is an air cylinder that activates the blades and I can't imagine a slow release cycle. When they are used I can imagine there are a few other happenings to attend to also.
If I'm incorrect, I'll post the correct answer as soon as I talk to Hume.
FREUD
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I was just informed that it will be deployed in 2 stages.
The first stage will have 3" of travel on the pneumatic cylinder and the second stage will fully extend to a 6" excursion.
It will be deployed by a switch on the steering wheel.
Dyno, thanks for asking. I too learned something.
FREUD
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This waiting for Marlo's car and the new Herbert car as well as the numerous others that are under construction is killing me. Well not literally. But I wish they'd get in gear!!!!
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racegoer, u don't wish it nearly as much as the builders.
FREUD
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When you put all the air brake panels together it somewhat resembles a Model A grille shell. Hmmmm
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More in the air brake area.
FREUD
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I am starting a new diary for Marlo's Streamliner.
The problems related to page 23 seem unsolvable.
The first post will be tonight, Tuesday, July 21.
It will be named TREITS STREAMLINER.
Thanks for the interest.
FREUD
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I had the privilege to see this work of art while in Seattle last week thanks to Freud, I took some pics, none as nice as Freud's, and none that could really show you just how cool this car is. I have seen a lot of nicely built airplanes, nice cars and race cars, but this one is not easy to classify.... It is art, it is craftsmanship, it is awesome, not just a little awesome... jaw dropping awesome.
So instead of a car picture, here is one of Freud and Hume.... and my friend Allyn checking out the canopy frame... I might post another picture or two after I catch up with my reading... 6 pages of unread.... y'all been busy...
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Ramn You, Stainless. I told my witness protection officer that I never left home.
Bad Boy.
Fun seein' u again.
FREUD
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I'm sorry that I haven't posted for a while.
I will give some relief from body panels. That next to last panel has become a major problem.
The connection between the blowers and the collector box on top of the manifold is being addressed. Each collector has provisions
for 3 burst panels. The top of the body had a built in "discharge area" that coincides with the position of the burst plates.
There is a removable crossmember directly in the path of the connection from the discharge to the input side. The route will be altered.
I'll post 4 images and add some more soon.
FREUD
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I tried 12 times to post 2 fotos. Sorry, they will never get posted.
Here was the message that goes with them but the fotos will never appear.
After Marlo had a blower sneeze on the lakester and found only shrapnel from the aluminum collector, he built these out of 3/8" and 1/2"
steel. Hume told Marlo that if he balloons these body panels, just to head home because he's not going to rebuild them.
Do u suppose that all that did is make the explosion louder if these let loose?
H E L L for stout................H E L L for loud !!
FREUD
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Please excuse me. I'll try to solve the problem. I shouldn't toss the bocquet before the bride says NO.
I'll figure out a way to show the fotos. Even the Webmaster of Landracing.Com has experienced the same problem.
I'll figure out a way.
Give me some time.
THANX
FREUD
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13th try. The above post explains the fotos.
FREUD
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I just took a chance to see if I could get connected.
FREUD
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test post 8
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test post 9
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test post 10
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test post 11
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test post 12
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test post 13
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test post 14
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test post 15
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test post 16
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test post 17
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LAST test post.....
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test post
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I suppose it really doesnt matter but I still can't access page 23.
If u can connect the prior 22 pages with the new TREIT STREAMLINER........that's fine.
If u can't, lets just put a link so it's easy for someone to open this one. Where it's placed is more than I could expect.
THANKS for all your effort.
FREUD
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Page 22 works and page 24, but page 23 bad.
Mike
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I can be TOTALLY content with the way the first build diary is posted at the top of the build site directory. ANYONE that wants to see it
has immediate access to that site.
I think the Elf is doing us well.
FREUD
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FWIW, you can set your preferences to show the newest posts first (so the funky page would be page 1 or 2), or the oldest posts first, so the funky page would be 23 or 24. the link is set up for those showing the newest posts last.
There's a corrupt post in the old thread, and I'm working with the server guy to get direct access to the database to blow it away.
Thank you all for your patience.
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There's a corrupt post in the old thread, and I'm working with the server guy to get direct access to the database to blow it away.
I got something in the post a while ago that could have been described as "corrupt" and it blew me away...... :wink: :wink:
Thanks Ferd
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There's a corrupt post in the old thread, and I'm working with the server guy to get direct access to the database to blow it away.
I got something in the post a while ago that could have been described as "corrupt" and it blew me away...... :wink: :wink:
Thanks Ferd
Was it page 23?
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HARDLY...........
This is the original thread that has a problem. I started the newer thread and I will do all new posting in that thread.
FREUD
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Thanks for all the LOVE extended to this project.
More details are available on target550.com.
The TREIT STREAMLINER thread in these build diarys is where the Landracing.com posts are now.
2010 is going to be a killer year for this project.
THANKS again for all of your interest.
FREUD
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new here and all I can say is WOW!!!
unbelievable craftsmanship... I am in love with this build!!!
thanks for sharing
Josh
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In the target550.com post from yesterday was a reference to the girls from Granite Falls, WA Manufacturing class.
They designed and built a car for the Shell Oil Eco Marathon.
Here's the link to the Shell Co site regarding the event.
http://www.shell.com/home/content/ecomarathon/americas/students/team/
Have a look. They came to Hume's shop a while back and were genuinely interested in the project.
FREUD
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1.3m seems like you have more than enough interest. :-D. Keep up the good work. :cheers:
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Hey guys, I just looked at a lot of build pictures, but Jim, Where are the GRAPES?
ED
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He hasn't carved yet. Those little stainless tubes have him up against the wall and there's still miles to do.
FREUD
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what you think Freud 2015 it will be done.
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Mike,I'll post that answer on TREITS STREAMLINER in Landracing.com Build Diary.
TREITS STREAMLINER is the newer diary and that's why I use it.
It will be on top in a few minutes. Thanks for asking.
FREUD
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MKILGER... I bet the Treit car will be done 5 years before your roadster will :-D :-D :-D
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RED ROCK....don't pump him up.
FREUD
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PLEASE POST ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE
TREITS STREAMLINER thread in the Builders Diary.
FREUD
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Why are there two separate threads about this car?
DW
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JD Tone asked the same question yesterday, Dan. Read all about it on the other thread. But basically -- the original thread got a bug in it -- that couldn't get removed, so a whole new thread was started (so the stuff in the old one didn't have to get repeated).
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23
G
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PLEASE DON'T ADD COMMENTS ON THIS POST.
I made a mistake and posted here when its hould have been on
the TREIT STREAMLINER thread.
Thanks
FREUD
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Freud, would you like me to lock this thread so no more posts will go here?
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Please do.
THANKS
GF