Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: Lemming Motors on May 26, 2020, 05:28:30 AM
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Came across this in passing, thought it might be of interest; apologies if it circulated already.
http://www.sebringsprite.com/pdf-files/SpeedwellStreamliner.pdf
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Some of the names rang a few way back bells for me. A great new to me read, thanks for posting.
Ed
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One name that stands out in that article is Costin. Michael Costin and David Phipps published in 1961 the comprehensive Racing and Sports Car Chassis Design book.
http://web.aeromech.usyd.edu.au/MECH4460/Course_Documents/Frames/Costin%20&%20Phipps.pdf
I used their informative publication in 1964 to design the X-1 rocket dragster, the predecessor to The Blue Flame absolute world land speed record holder. After studying Indy cars and F1 cars of the period, this book had it all in one place.
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I thought I should show the rear of the chassis as well. The independent rear suspension was later modified in order to eliminate pitching motion - not a good thing with a thrust powered car.
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Not to hijack- nice article- showing another unblown "G" class (not same one of course) Sprite:
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Dick, what kind of camber change did you see in bump at the front end of the X-1?
John
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John, don't recall and I don't have the paper drawings. Too bad we didn't have CAD digital files. Unequal length A-arms must have allowed some camber change, but stiff shocks and limited travel would have kept it minimal.
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That was one of the first chassis books I ever purchased and probably in the top five of the most valuable books I ever purchased. I've still got it on a shelf and it's fun to still look through. It taught me early on that I should have been paying closer attention in math classes. :-D :-D :-D
Pete
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Dick:
Those vintage suspensions factored in quite a bit of chassis roll to keep unequal a-arms civil. Without the roll, I bet there was massive camber change. But like you say, stiff springs and limited travel probably restricted any evil your front suspension would deliver.
Before computers, I followed Carrol Smith?s method of using pop cycle sticks on graph paper to see what suspension was doing dynamically.
John
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Very generous of you Mayoman to pass on this small but very valuable book.
Costin and Keith Duckworth, who is credited somwhere in the book, went on to produce motorsports history.
Adding Carroll Smiths series of How TO - - WIN books to ones library should be mandatory to anyone reading Landracing.Com. that half way is, was, or will be a fabricator of speed record vehicles.
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Many years ago I had the pleasure of meeting Mike Costin - he was the patron of a sports car club I belonged to in NZ and was visiting on holiday and spoke at a club meeting.
Frank Costin did the aero stuff but the brothers worked together on the Lotus XI (Mike was an employee, Frank a contractor). It's apocryphal but apparently the first aero design for the XI was rejected by Chapman because it was too long for the racing trailer. My Lakester has similar design constraints - 20 foot shipping containers come to mind. I feel I am in good company.
I don't know how many were built but apparently there was a Costin designed club racer a-la Lotus (now Caterham et al) that would out handle all comers, including the 7.
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I don't know how many were built but apparently there was a Costin designed club racer a-la Lotus (now Caterham et al) that would out handle all comers, including the 7.
The Lotus XI Club used a Ford Ten rear-end and Ford drum brakes instead of the De Dion tube and disc brakes of a standard Lotus XI. Also an 1,172 cc Ford flat-head four was the standard engine.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.u0RKvV8keJRPAnlPfNhjwgHaCb%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
https://www.lotuseleven.org/Design&Prod/Motor%20Sport%20test%20of%20the%20Lotus%20Sports.htm
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But like you say, stiff springs and limited travel probably restricted any evil your front suspension would deliver. John
Back in the bad old days when I was production sports car racing, we used to say any of these crap suspension designs can be made to work, if you don't let it.
jack vines