Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => World of Speed-specific stuff => Topic started by: CGoodson on August 16, 2019, 10:27:51 AM
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Will Word of Speed be held in Sept due to salt conditions?
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So.... I keep hearing that the salt conditions are less than ideal this year.
Exactly what does that mean? thin, soggy, bumpy. soft ?
What would help the situation this year?
more moisture? dry and hot? wind? track grooming?
What about BMST?
running the lightweight bikes obviously tears up the track less than cars,
can the salt be groomed and maintained to keep the track nice for bikes, or is the damage already done?
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We will be going out to the salt in the near future to assess conditions and see what, if anything, can be done to make decent courses.
We will be honest in our assessment and update everyone as we go along.
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There are several factors that have contributed to salt conditions this year.
It has been a record year for rain and snowfall in Utah and Nevada. So much so that Intrepid has not been able to process potash because their ponds and ditches are full of fresh water. They have not pumped anything from the underground aquifer. This has left the flats wetter than normal.
Plus mother nature does things we don't understand.
Both the timing of, and the methods for grooming, play an important role in how the courses turn out.
We will do our best to get useable courses and will keep posting updates.
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Thanks Monte. Look forward to an update after you guys get a look at the salt.
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Thank you Monte! Thank you for keeping us updated! :cheers:
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Thanks Monte! As always, you have your finger on it! Everyone who has been a part of USFRA knows that you guys do your upmost best to see we have the best time possible under all conditions. NOT always the easiest thing to do ! So prayers to the Gods of Salt, and with any luck we'll see you all in Sept ! Thanks again, Ed & Leona #1011 :cheers:
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Thanks and look forward to the updates,we all know that the rain was not the reason the salt was the way it was during SW,thanks for your honesty!!!I met a guy on our way out of town at the gas station,he was filling up his city of wendover garbage truck,we chit chatted and it turns out he is the water guy for the town also,and he said the exact same thing,it’s all ground water,period.It was never going to be a good course but he feels that if the next few weeks are hot that September may be all good.I wish I got his phone #
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The BMST crew is headed out tomorrow from Washington, and they have said they will post info about the salt condition on their facebook page as they begin to groom the course for next week. Word from the advance guard is that it continues to dry out.
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I don't do the Facebook thing. If anyone reads an update to the salt conditions for WOS, please post here! We're trying to decide if it is worth the 3,500 mile trip if there isn't 5 good miles to race on. Thank you all!
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" QUOTE we all know that the rain was not the reason the salt was the way it was during SW"
That's incorrect.
The consistent rain through spring & summer IS the reasons the salt was garbage at SW this year. The ground is saturated & unable to absorb any more moisture. Add to that the lack of salt crust & just in case anybody still doesn't understand where that salt went, it migrated via slurry mining to the other side of the freeway. The excessive ground water content now means there is a lower salt saturation level making it uneconomical for the mining company to turn on their pumps & that resulted in the water table being higher than usual.
The potash is a large part of the binder in the salt that allows it to dry hard & like I've been saying for the last few years, when the profit margin goes away, so does the mining company & I believe that will be the lesser of two evils.
Compare the last three years & look at what we had to run on.
This year it rained so much through spring & summer even the deserts were green & the mild temperatures reduced evaporation. So you know what we ended up with.
Last year we had a dry spring & summer but it was unusually calm with very light winds. The result was a good smooth surface & obviously still thin but it stood up pretty good because there were a lot less race cars running on it than usual. Remember, Saturday afternoon looked more like a typical Tuesday. The reason it was smooth is the lack of wind. Wind blows the water around which creates pools & those pools become the divots in the surface now that the crust is so thin & that's what we had back in 16 & 17.
Back in the years when there was still good salt crust thickness, that wind action would create what we called "crunchies". They'ed run the drag over it knocking the crunchies off & we'd go racing. As the salt crust got thinner, knocking the crunchies off would expose the dirt below & the crust would start to come apart as we ran on it. Move up to where we are now & that wind action is creating the divots in the dirt & filling them with what's left of the salt crust as it solidifies.
I look forward to the time when their profit margin eats it's self.
Sid.
ps I don't know how those two crutchy things got in there but I can't edit them out.
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I think that it goes without saying that profit is the reason that Intrepid does what it does.
here's a suggestion.....
Why don't a few (or a bunch) of the "high net worth" racers pony up, buy Intrepid and operate
it in the best interest of the salt.
Exercise a bit of Environmental philanthropy if you will.
Sure, Mother Nature will still have a say on the condition of the salt, but controlling the mining
impact would certainly have an effect on the future of quality racing at Bonneville.
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I believe there is an Intrepid Salt Co., too.
Those rail cars leaving daily for years were loaded with something white as I remember.
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Yes they sell Salt, this is from their website.
We are headquartered in Denver, Colorado and have operations in Carlsbad, New Mexico, Moab, Utah and Wendover, Utah. Intrepid is the only U.S.-based producer of potash and potassium-related products. We also sell salt, salt brines, magnesium chloride and water. Our products serve the agricultural, animal feed and industrial markets.
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This message is from Dennis Sullivan, president of USFRA.
A team of people went out to the salt on Wednesday the 21st to
assess course conditions. The salt has dried a great deal and the BMST
crew is working a course next to the Speedweek courses and has been
able to work an area out to the seven mile. with the continued drying
of the salt we feel that when the USFRA starts to work their long
course we will be able to work it to the eighth mile and be able to
move the Speedweek starting line one mile to the north. We will also
have a modified short course with a full three miles of timing. Be
nice to Mother Nature she could change it all.
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Sounds great. Moving the course to the North seems like it should help. At Speed Week, the return road exhibited better conditions than any of the racing lanes that were used.
Steve
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This message is from Dennis Sullivan, president of USFRA.
A team of people went out to the salt on Wednesday the 21st to
assess course conditions. The salt has dried a great deal and the BMST
crew is working a course next to the Speedweek courses and has been
able to work an area out to the seven mile. with the continued drying
of the salt we feel that when the USFRA starts to work their long
course we will be able to work it to the eighth mile and be able to
move the Speedweek starting line one mile to the north. We will also
have a modified short course with a full three miles of timing. Be
nice to Mother Nature she could change it all.
:cheers:
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That is promising news Monte!
We will all be watching for further updates.
Thanks in advance for all the hard work and time.
Woz
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We second that! Great news so far.Thanks Monte and crew for the effort and dedication from the great USFRA crew- keeping the fingers x'ed! :cheers: :cheers: :clap
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Since this is going to be a last minute decision (waiting on the salt report),is it safe to assume we can pay for entries and whatever else is needed when we get to the salt?At the higher price I am guessing?$700
Thanks
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Since this is going to be a last minute decision (waiting on the salt report),is it safe to assume we can pay for entries and whatever else is needed when we get to the salt?At the higher price I am guessing?$700
Thanks
That's what we're planning on doing, too. I'm guessing that USFRA will be glad to take our money!
Jeff in Boise
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The issue there could be that there aren't enough pre-entries to make it worth running the event so anybody planning to just turn up might want to contact them.
Sid.
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I've been with WOS since 2007 and I don't remember them cancelling a main event ever for lack of entrys - the T&T is different, and a few times they have had that issue-and as I see it, with the increasing interest from SW dis-appointees, I have a feeling we are going to be over-full! Hate to say it but I kinda hope they put some kind of cap on entrys , due to current salt conditions, as we all know, the more is NOT ALWAYS the merrier !! :-D :cheers:
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Got an E mail from a guy I know that lives in SLC but works in the gold mines in the Elko area and he stopped by the salt during the bike race and said that the salt was VERY dry and that he got very little salt on his truck while driving to the pits and also the bike guys said the course was dry and smooth. Great news now let's all pray for no rain!!!
Anxious to hear what the USFR guys find out.
Rex
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Got an E mail from a guy I know that lives in SLC but works in the gold mines in the Elko area and he stopped by the salt during the bike race and said that the salt was VERY dry and that he got very little salt on his truck while driving to the pits and also the bike guys said the course was dry and smooth. Great news now let's all pray for no rain!!!
Anxious to hear what the USFR guys find out.
Rex
By Tuesday of Speedweek the salt we were driving on was dry leaving very little salt on the truck and tires also very little on our sneakers. However this was in no way an indicator of how poor the race surface was going to be. Good luck.
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Ronnie,
I wish that we had pitted near you! We still had salt sticking to our trucks and shoes in the pits on Tuesday and I am sure you were in the "line to nowhere" back by the starting line and on Tuesday the Jessel Dodge pickup was sinking into the salt by at least 1/2 inch and there were a number of cars, trucks and motorhomes that were in deep. There was one section of the line that I would only go through in 4WD. I thought Wednesday was only a little bit better.
Rex
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I'm in Portland for the IndyCar races. I talked to some guys who went to BMST who said the course was very good and improving daily. Didn't Monte say something about the WoS course being near the BMST course?
Jeff from Boise
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Ronnie,
I wish that we had pitted near you! We still had salt sticking to our trucks and shoes in the pits on Tuesday and I am sure you were in the "line to nowhere" back by the starting line and on Tuesday the Jessel Dodge pickup was sinking into the salt by at least 1/2 inch and there were a number of cars, trucks and motorhomes that were in deep. There was one section of the line that I would only go through in 4WD. I thought Wednesday was only a little bit better.
Rex
Rex read what I posted the pit area was dry you should have pitted by me for sure at least by Tuesday. But I also had a heck of a time pulling my stuff along the road leading to staging Tuesday morning I almost needed to put the Ram in four wheel drive it was a mess. Staging lanes were much better. And then there was the coarse just pure junk. So some areas were good and other areas were bad the really important area was bad. Hopefully things will change for the better time will tell.
Ronnieroadster
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One of my Aussie Mate's ran the BMST & said it was still pretty wet so he's planning to go down & run El Mirage.
Sid.
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We ran BMST too, 3 bikes
went from pretty damp to dusty ,they were grooming every nite
Not much sticking on the bikes at all and dust all over the motor cases
all the well driven over areas are actually hard like last year
i would think a well groomed USFRA track could be fast
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We will post an official update this coming Wednesday. Dennis and Larry are going out to assess salt conditions and we will get you all the latest information.
Let's hope the weather stays dry for the next 15 days.
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Holy Cow ,Monte! We have to hang for 3 more days ? :-D After a whole year, what's a few more days, right? :clap Anyway, thanks again for all the hard work you and the crew do for us, it is GREATLY appreciated ! Hope to see you all in 11 days. :cheers: :cheers:
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Is it Wednesday yet??? lol8
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I'm all-in on Monte and the crew... hopefully Mother Nature will cooperate!
GW
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As promised, here is the latest:
Wednesday the 4th of Sept Larry Volk and myself looked at the
salt and the courses that USFRA will be using. The salt is much dryer
and harder than it was for SpeedWeek. We will be using a course on the
east side of the courses used at SpeedWeek. There will be 5 miles of
timed and 21/2 shut down. The course is good from the start to the 4
mile, bumpy from the 4 mile to the 5 mile, shut down salt is thin but
symi-smooth. We will also have a short course in the same place that
SCTA had their short course. Three miles timed 11/2 miles shut down.
The return roads and the road to the pits will be ruff like SpeedWeek
but dry. The USFRA drag crew will be working the courses from Sat.
till Fri. (6 days), we feel confident that we can improve the courses
to good.
Dennis Sullivan
President USFRA
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WOW! I can finally breathe again! Major thanks to Monte and Larry and the whole USFRA crew for all they do ! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Now Mom Nature-keep up the good work! :clap :clap
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Monte: will there be any additional salt condition reports?
Thanks,
Jeff in Boise
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Thanks for the update,question for you,will you be doing license passes on the long course like last year?
Thanks
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I am going out Saturday morning to start working the courses. I will post updates when I a better feel for conditions.
We will most likely do rookie runs on the long course along with licensing passes. We will assess the short course and see if we can do licensing passes there as well.
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Thanks for the response,if all goes well we will see you Wednesday!
Thanks again :cheers:
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I am going out Saturday morning to start working the courses. I will post updates when I a better feel for conditions.
We will most likely do rookie runs on the long course along with licensing passes. We will assess the short course and see if we can do licensing passes there as well.
Monte:
Many thanks!
Jeff in Boise
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I am going out Saturday morning to start working the courses. I will post updates when I a better feel for conditions.
We will most likely do rookie runs on the long course along with licensing passes. We will assess the short course and see if we can do licensing passes there as well.
What's the latest on course conditions and weather predictions for the next few days?
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Jason and have been here all day working the long course.
The salt is dry and hard. There has been no rain here that I can see. I sent photos to Ellen and she has posted them on our facebook page and our web site saltflats.com. Check them out.
I am very encouraged about the condition of the salt. Still a bit rough from the 4 to the 5 but we will continue to work it and try to smooth it out a bit.
More updates to follow.
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Things are looking up. :cheers: Thanks to all of you, looking forward to it.
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Outstanding and thanks for all the work,I though I read somewhere that if we get to the salt Wednesday afternoon we could get you guys to come by our pit and inspect car to free up some time on Thursday?We hope to be there by 4PM Wednesday
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Would you guys do me a favor and check the Wendover forecast? I use NOAA weather and their page had been showing goofy time stamps. Right now it's 5.30 am out there -- and the weather map shows it's 7AM. Last night the time stamp was about 8 hours ahead of real time.
Therefore I don't believe the forecast, either. Showers today?
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Slim - I just checked several weather apps and they all agree - sunny, warm, and dry - thru WoS.
GW
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Except Weather Underground is showing a 38% chance of rain with 0.09" accumulation late Tuesday evening in Wendover. Hope they're wrong and it's 100% dry!
Jeff in Boise
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Slim, go to: weather.com , type wendover ,ut in search, then go to 10 -day , then scroll to the bottom and watch the radar, that's usually the best indicator! Right now, it appears to agree with Jeff's post above, Tues. night into wend ,looks a little ugly, then clean and green the rest of the week! At least for NOW! Keep the positive waves!
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No, that's not my point. Go to the NOAA weather and look at the time stamp. I've never seen it all farkled before and wondered if anyone else noticed it.
As for a weather site -- I use NOAA because it has no ads so it loads faster, and I've learned that the forecasts are spot-on.
https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=40.7364&lon=-114.0405
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Good call Slim, that is an easier site, looking at that though, it isn't in agreement with several other sites, but the time stamp on mine says updated at 7:11 am 9/8 .I guess we'll know when we get there or get a 'out-the-window' report from Monte ! :cheers:
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We are getting pounded with thunder storms & rain here & it's clear down past SLC but I don't know if it got the salt or not. KSL is the best place to check the local weather.
Sid.
https://www.ksl.com/weather/radar/Salt%20Lake
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No, that's not my point. Go to the NOAA weather and look at the time stamp. I've never seen it all farkled before and wondered if anyone else noticed it.
As for a weather site -- I use NOAA because it has no ads so it loads faster, and I've learned that the forecasts are spot-on.
https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=40.7364&lon=-114.0405
I just looked and the 'Last Update' showed yesterday's date but the '3 Day History' was current times.... I use NOAA the most also. The current 'Storm Toatal' shows a trace by Wendover.
Sum
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Waether Channel's radar map is showing a big green blob with a yellow/red center right on top of the salt at 0955MDT.
Jeff in Boise
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Jeff, the radar animated map shows that the storm is moving very fast so I doubt that there will be much rainfall on the course.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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I sure hope you're right! Radar shows the green blob has now moved on. Weather Underground shows that has been 0.09" of rain in Wendover (at the airport) so far today.
Jeff in Boise
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Looking at the camera shows some pretty nasty clouds
http://meso1.chpc.utah.edu/station_cameras/bflat_cam/bflat_cam_current.jpg
Chris
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as far as I know as of this morning the salt is still dry and they are still dragging.
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Rain all around the flats but none on the salt. We are still dragging and working the courses.
All plans still moving forward and looking good.
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That is good to hear. Thank you for the report and all the hard work.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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It's 3:00pm MDT on the salt. The critical time for rain is from now until around 8:00am MDT tomorrow morning. Everybody keep your fingers crossed, do an anti-rain dance, or something!
Jeff in Boise
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You all need to quit using the "R" word
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Let's go racing! Just looked at the weather cam. It is beautiful on the salt! :cheers:The moisture is staying away! Didn't use the "R" word! See all you guys on the Salt! :cheers:
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You all need to quit using the "R" word
Right,bunch of Debbie downers lol8
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It's about 10.30 Bville time. I just got a call from Dan Wright (USFRA sculptor and racer, too) who had just talked with Ellen Wilkinson who is on the salt now.
Dan said they got about an inch of rain in Salt Lake City in the past 24 hours, but Ellen reports dry and sunny and not a cloud int he sky. The race course is in good condition now.
The rain was in SLC, not Wendover, okay? No Problems!! :cheers: :cheers:
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I can confirm just got word from Burkdoll salt is good! :cheers:
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I can give everybody an in-person confirmation. I arrived a bit before noon, and was dismayed when I saw puddles at the Bend in the Road. However, it's dry as a bone on the salt. We got maybe 10-15 cars inspected today. Carbiliner is here, as is Target 550. It'll be interesting to see who else shows up. Unfortunately, it looks like my ride is experiencing some problems and may not show up. But with the lower temperatures and decent salt, we hope to to see some good runs & records!
Jeff from Boise
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Hey, Jeff. How about some reporting? I don't see anything recent on the USFRA Facebook page and nothing much here, either.
What's going on? Are they going to stream the audio? :police:
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As you can imagine, we have all been extremely busy getting everything prepared, set up and working.
We are ready to go racing tomorrow morning. There will be no live streaming of the audio. The best we have to offer will be interviews with races that will be posted on our Facebook page throughout the event. We are small in budget and small in manpower but big in heart and hard work.
I look forward to having a great World of Speed 2019.
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Monte - thx as always, and it will be great!
GW
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Hey, Jeff. How about some reporting? I don't see anything recent on the USFRA Facebook page and nothing much here, either.
What's going on? Are they going to stream the audio? :police:
Slim:
I would if I had time. Today I was out there inspecting from shortly after I arrived at 7:00am until I left at 7:30pm. Got to look - very closely - at some really kool cars, though! Hopefully, the inspection line will slow down some tomorrow, and they won't need to press me into service as a course marshal. If I get a chance, I'll head over to the start/staging lanes and see what I can find out. If I hear any big news, I'll text it to you for posting. And it looks like I may get behind the wheel, after all, but probably not until Saturday.
Jeff from Boise
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Jeff just texted that Doug and the Salt Cat Jaguar XO/BFALT and Black Gold Rush XO/BFMR are in Impound.
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Also in impound (Jeff says he wanders over and checks when there's a break in Inspection and doesn't get the numbers or speeds. Deal with it - at least we're getting some stuff). Guthrie-Levie SC-F 1000, Mursick Half VW I/CGALT, Lanena A/PBG 1000.
I'm out of the shop and running errands and I'll post when I can. I've checked Facebook and don't see speeds there (on the USFRA page). Maybe later. I hope, I hope.
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Short course is smoooooooth.
Long course improves after 2 1/4, rough up to there.
Sam
#6062
Crewing for #3939 La Nena today
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A few more cars made it to impound, but I didn't get any info. My guys arrived with the car, we got it through Tech, and pre-staged. So, I'm done inspecting and get to start driving. We should be running pretty early - but after the qualifiers.
Jeff from Boise
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#3939
1000cc A /PBG new record 128+
Re qualified at 143....
Sam