Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: ronnieroadster on April 29, 2019, 08:00:39 PM
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Wow has anyone seen the top speeds for this past weekends ECTA event in Arkansas. Looks like two supercars running way over 200 MPH with no safety gear at all other than a drivers helmet and seat belts pretty safe stuff! One of these safe vehicles apparently spun trying to stop on one of those well over 200 MPH runs good thing the car had front brakes. :-o
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It's not clear to me that an SCTA-compliant race car is safer than a modern production car. Production cars have crumple zones and airbags. In a crash, they may transfer less energy to the driver than race cars. Am I way off base?
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Would you want to be in one in a roll - over situation?
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It's not clear to me that an SCTA-compliant race car is safer than a modern production car. Production cars have crumple zones and airbags. In a crash, they may transfer less energy to the driver than race cars. Am I way off base?
A crash at 240 MPH in a modern production car would be survivable because of crumple zones and air bags really? I think theres limits to what protection new vehicles have built into them one of those limits i bet is the speed of the wreck.
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A crash at 240 MPH in a modern production car would be survivable because of crumple zones and air bags really?
Did I say that?
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... has anyone seen the top speeds for this past weekends ECTA event in Arkansas...
No. I'd like to see some reporting.
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It's not clear to me that an SCTA-compliant race car is safer than a modern production car. Production cars have crumple zones and airbags. In a crash, they may transfer less energy to the driver than race cars. Am I way off base?
Read your own words!!
Sid.
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So they'll let you fly down the track in a Hellcat with just a brain bucket?
Odd that they'll let a showroom stock car run as fast as it will go, yet they want to hang brakes on all four wheels of a fully caged cars built specifically for LSR, even if it will never achieve a similar speed.
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Don't care what speeds the mile cars run. Bring 'em to Bonneville.
DW
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It's not clear to me that an SCTA-compliant race car is safer than a modern production car. Production cars have crumple zones and airbags. In a crash, they may transfer less energy to the driver than race cars. Am I way off base?
Read your own words!!
Sid.
As to front brakes, seems like a good idea to me. I believe ECTA also mandates a 48" minimum track width. It's a different environment than the salt. The supercar rules are not new.
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I'm surprised - the old ECTA was careful about safety. This is like Texas Mile, anything goes.
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I was there, got three runs in before a mechanical failure. The turn out was really light, maybe 40-45 competitors. I am not sure why more folks don't go because it is a good racetrack. The weather was great on Friday then it got WINDY for Saturday. The Black Lambo hit 233 in the half mile! The safety aspect of that is hard to grasp, I will stick with a full cage and all the safety gear. I do hope to make the World of Speed this year.
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It's not clear to me that an SCTA-compliant race car is safer than a modern production car. Production cars have crumple zones and airbags. In a crash, they may transfer less energy to the driver than race cars. Am I way off base?
Read your own words!!
Sid.
As to front brakes, seems like a good idea to me. I believe ECTA also mandates a 48" minimum track width. It's a different environment than the salt. The supercar rules are not new.
Supercar rules thats to funny. ECTA rule 2H tread all vintage category vehicles minimum tread are 44 inch front and 50 inch rear. Special construction vehicles are not subject to this rule. Front brakes would seem like a good idea unless your talking about a special construction vehicle or LSR roadster. One asks why more cars dont support the ECTA any longer it might be part of the problem is the elimination of most true purpose built LSR cars with how the rules are written. One would think the rules not allowing true LSR cars to run are a good thing using the word SAFETY then we see what just took place. Supercars super fast with little if any safety devices in place or required. So that seems like a good idea?
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I'll still be looking forward to some reporting on special construction results.
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Jack,
A big +1 twice here as well!
Not as close as Loring but still a lot closer than Bonneville, gotta keep looking ahead..........
Ed
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Is the chute the only this the ECTA no longer requires for street legal cars? Did the Lambo have a full roll cage?
https://www.ectamile.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Street-Category-2019.pdf
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I did not get close enough to see if the Lambo had a cage. I would think it should have with the speed it produced. I can't imagine any production car would be safe at 233 in a crash.
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I'll still be looking forward to some reporting on special construction results.
Look at the ECTA web site all class runs and speeds are posted. Sorry i was wrong the results are shown for last April :roll:
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I think you guys are being rather harsh. ECTA obviously cares about safety, otherwise they wouldn't require superstreet cars to have a horn and turn signals.
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I think you guys are being rather harsh. ECTA obviously cares about safety, otherwise they wouldn't require superstreet cars to have a horn and turn signals.
LMAO :cheers:
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They're so far ahead of the SCTA. In some SCTA classes we're required to have a horn. I've never seen an inspector make us demonstrate its effectiveness.
(Is there a decibel rating that has to be obtained?)
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I'll still be looking forward to some reporting on special construction results.
Look at the ECTA web site all class runs and speeds are posted.
I've been checking the ECTA website via the link on the homepage here on a regular basis since Sat eve and haven't seen 'em yet.
Ed
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I don't see them either. Not even under the heading "Results & records from 2009-201 races from the Maxton, Ohio races." :dhorse:
Mike
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I'll still be looking forward to some reporting on special construction results.
Look at the ECTA web site all class runs and speeds are posted.
I've been checking the ECTA website via the link on the homepage here on a regular basis since Sat eve and haven't seen 'em yet.
Ed
I was wrong in my above post the results are from last April. Maybe there sorting out the records for the cars with wipers and horns before posting this years results. :cheers:
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I have been trying to get my head around why everyone is so upset. The cars are built with a factory engineered carbon fiber cockpit / drivers capsule. That includes roll over protection. The factory has spent millions crash testing these cars and learning from these tests. The cars have additional roll cage installed as well. And both cars were prepped and fielded buy one of the best shops in the world. And lets not forget these are basically street versions of their race cars. That routinely crash at high speeds and the drivers walk away. Don't let the pretty looks fool you, these cars are tough. After spinning off the pavement at 200mph into a freshly planted field, where it spun around and stopped in a muddy low spot. I pulled it out of the mud and they drove it to a car wash. The only damage was to plastic panels under the car. And they were not broken just skinned up.
There also seems to been some confusion about why I require 4 wheel brakes. Have you ever had a brake failure in the pits, on the return road, around people, or with less than 3/4's of a mile to stop. I HAVE HAD ALL 4 HAPPEN. I am not concerned about you on the race course, it is when you exit the course is my concern. And by the way one of my brake failures resulted in piece of brake rotor cutting a big hole in the chute. So don't try to tell me the things I worry about will not happen. As some of you know CJ and I race many different kinds of events all year. I see multiple crashes every year and make it a point to learn from each one. I have attended live crash seminars to see the high speed camera footage and learn from the experts.
I find it very funny that several people can rant on the internet. But I have not received a single Email, text or phone call to discuss anything.
As was said it was a very small field even with the Motorcycles and modern cars. You could count the true LSR cars on both hands. People need to put their energy into growing the sport not negative public rants. People want to say they are concerned about preserving LSR, as the owner of ECTA, I can tell you without growth eventually there won't be anything to preserve. One of our younger competitors told me he saw so many white beards at his 1st lsr event. He thought it was a Santa Claus reunion. Just repeating what I was told.
I have stated my position. I will not engage in a public rant. I have races to get ready for. But you are free to email, text or call me
Steve Strupp
President of the ECTA
speeding4u@gmail.com
812 305 0710
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Ronnie,
Thanks :cheers:
Great to learn the old timer's hasn't gotten to me quite yet, I was beginning to wonder........ :wink:
Ed
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I find it very funny that several people can rant on the internet. But I have not received a single Email, text or phone call to discuss anything.
Always remember what you said here, because people do rant on the internet simply because it is easy. I think your response was thoughtful and I respect it. I've noticed that some of those Santa impostors even wear red hats.
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Well boys, this all started with supercars running without any safety gear... now we know that is not the case. :-o
I suggest if you want to run LSR cars on a mile track without front brakes, start an organization with that rule....
I know my chute will not stop our lakester in 1/2 mile... I won't be running on a mile track unless I figure out how to add braking beyond the single disk we use on the axle.
Issues can occur with any race car....
As is stated here all the time... build a car to the rules of the organization you will run with, don't expect them to make a class you can run in. The same applies to safety rules
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There also seems to been some confusion about why I require 4 wheel brakes. Have you ever had a brake failure in the pits, on the return road, around people, or with less than 3/4's of a mile to stop. I HAVE HAD ALL 4 HAPPEN. I am not concerned about you on the race course, it is when you exit the course is my concern. And by the way one of my brake failures resulted in piece of brake rotor cutting a big hole in the chute. So don't try to tell me the things I worry about will not happen. As some of you know CJ and I race many different kinds of events all year. I see multiple crashes every year and make it a point to learn from each one. I have attended live crash seminars to see the high speed camera footage and learn from the experts.
Hi, Steve -
That was me on the brakes issue.
Steve, don't get me wrong - I understand where you're coming from, and I acknowledge it is your responsibility to put together the safest possible event.
But it remains my belief that a closer alignment of SCTA-BNI rules and ECTA rules opens opportunities for those who would like to race under both sanctioning bodies. I raced at Maxton because at the time, if you were good to go at Bonneville, you were pretty much good to go at Maxton.
I would love to help build the sport into a multi-venue affair including more LSR vehicles.
When the move to Blytheville occurred, I saw an opportunity to have a venue within a day's drive evaporate due to different rules - in my case, it was brakes.
So yeah, I'm being a bit snarky about that. And I recognize how foolish I must sound - advocating for race cars with only rear brakes!
But let me pose this - I agree with your concern about the cars in the pits and near spectators. At Bonneville, that's handled via push vehicles or tow vehicles. Is that a potential - if partial - solution?
I'd love to race Blytheville - I simply can't justify reworking my whole front end to do it, and I know there are others who have had to take a long hard look at their vehicles in order to justify competing at these two disparate venues with different rules.
Chris Conrad
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Chris i have similar feelings in regards to the brake issue having rear brakes only on my race car which I safely ran at Maxton and Wilmington with no issues. We never drive the car from the pits to the line its always towed. The rear brakes are suitable for the slow flat towing in the pits and to staging and also work fine after the run once the two chutes slow the car to a point where the rear drum brakes are used for the little braking needed. Redesigning the car is not going to happen.
Its to bad in the past I supported the ECTA not only by bringing a car to run but I also helped with inspecting cars something I enjoyed. Were racers and want to race but were also intelligent enough to know whats safe and the limitations involved thats all im going to write about this subject for now. See you all on the salt or at Loring in July.
Ronnieroadster :cheers:
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I was there, got three runs in before a mechanical failure. The turn out was really light, maybe 40-45 competitors. I am not sure why more folks don't go because it is a good racetrack. The weather was great on Friday then it got WINDY for Saturday. The Black Lambo hit 233 in the half mile! The safety aspect of that is hard to grasp, I will stick with a full cage and all the safety gear. I do hope to make the World of Speed this year.
Tommysgarage, I live within 2 1/2 hours from the track, have been associated with lsr since the 70's and no way in hell am I paying the price of their sign up fee for running my equipment (bikes) when in the end there is no verification of being class legal of engine or chassis, no record potential etc. This opinion is shared by many obviously if only 40/45 entrants showed up. The previous owners of ECTA provided a somewhat more appealing format, not equal to SCTA/BNI standards, but not bad for a 2 day event. This owner charges 3-4 times the amount and has minimal work at the end of the meet, no records to keep etc.. I'm definitely not against free enterprise, been in business all my life but if the value is not there, your product or service will not sell. Previously we had to scramble to get a sign up spot, it was so popular that they had to restrict it to 150 entries, that in and of itself should tell the complete story.
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Good comments in here. If the ECTA was smart they’d listen.
If the concern really isn’t stopping on track then it should be simple. Allow cars to run with no front brakes if they are only allowed under power while on course.
Don’t forget the guy who died at the mile event in Louisiana in the GTR.
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I do understand why some folks are not happy with ECTA right now, it is not quite the same as it was when we ran at Ohio. I do have a car built to SCTA specs (G/BGALT) and ECTA does have records for these classes. No, these records don't have the prestige of a Bonneville record. It does give a measuring stick to gauge your performance against other competitors. I have spent a considerable amount of time and money on my equipment and even though the cost to race is higher than it used to be, it is still just a drop in the bucket compared to my investment. I have always enjoyed going to the ECTA meets and meeting the other racers, including the guys with street cars. It is also much closer to home than the salt flats, much easier for a tired old guy. I am willing to support them with my participation and encourage others to do the same. If ECTA should go away the alternatives are scarce and inconvenient.
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Racers I have talked with who attended this event said when the question was asked should a parachute be used the answer given was do what you want. Kind of an odd answer considering the safety concerns. Its also interesting that certain high profile Fast race cars did not pay any entrance fee. Also shutting down the runway for a Lear jet to take off for a parts run was also interesting. Not the same ECTA for sure oh well.
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First things first, Steve & Co did an excellent job of running the event. It's a shame there were not more competitors and that more of the competitors present did not take full advantage of the direct 15-20mph tailwind at 6am Sunday morning.
I think the easiest solution to not running a 240mph 1/2mi car off the track is to use the whole runway to slow down. I didn't see the accident, but I did see the exotics do no chute early turnout braking several times. Start enforcing >175mph = parachute even for half mile and encourage drivers to use later turnouts and I think this problem goes away at Blytheville. There is always the possibility of a blown tire, axle, brake line, or other mechanical failure that results in leaving the racing surface, but Blythevillle is incredibly wide and long compared to other venues. I think there is a relatively high safety factor here compared to a half mile long road course straight and bumpy shutdown like NOLA. In the current Street Category rules posted, there is no requirement for parachutes and it does not direct the reader to the full set of rules which clearly still state: "An approved parachute is required on all cars over 175 MPH." and " Parachute deployment is mandatory over 175 mph.". It's good to know that the modern street cars were abiding by the rules set forth for cage and seat, but I think it's strange to include Real Street and Super Street on that page of the rules and are required to do safety per the full rules, but allow Modified Street to only use the rules on the Street Category page.
FWIW, I think that rear only brake LSR vehicles using Bonneville push truck rules is a great solution. Lots of shutdown room at Blytheville and I don't think anyone has came anywhere near the end of the course yet.
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I just noticed the ECTA April '19 run logs have been posted on their site: https://www.ectamile.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/April-Run-Log-Unofficial.pdf
Ed
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I quickly scanned the run logs and didn't see a single lakester. Have class designations changed drastically?
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I quickly scanned the run logs and didn't see a single lakester. Have class designations changed drastically?
Class designations are not the reason none of that should have changed in the rules for the class. However I bet it has something to do with the front brake rule. Most guys I talk to feel its not worth the effort to add front brakes plus everyone I know has a chute. Since the guys i know have run their special construction cars at both of the previous ECTA tracks with no issues at all the idea of changing is not a thing their willing to do.
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Need to make something very clear. We have ran everything from farm tractors and steam powered motorcycles to Lambos. All are treated equal and no one gets in free.
As to the jet, it had landed at the airport on the other side of own. When the wind came up on Saturday afternoon. He received clearance from the airport to bring it over since we were shut down. We did stop breifly on Sunday for the jet to fly back to Dallas and get a driveshaft for the green Lambo. Just to clarify what seems to be a miss understanding, The pilot was not the owner or driver of either lambo. He was driving his GTR. But he offered to help out and fly back and pick up the drive shaft. He gave up a 1/2 day of racing to help another racer. We did stop for a couple of local pilots to land and or take off. Both hold times were less than 10 minutes and there were less than 10 vehicles in line. We send vehicles off approx 50 seconds apart.
I have no problem with people voicing there opinions. But I will correct false information.
I have no ideal where the rumor that anyone got in free came from but it is absolutely false.
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News reports show a Lambo crash thats taken the life of the driver high speed run on a street resulted in a crash. Same driver from this event. Speeds are serious the results can be disastrous especially without the required devices for Land Speed Race cars. The factory spending millions on development that includes driver safety is pure fantasy. May he rest in piece he was doing what we all enjoy the lust for all out speed. :-(
Ronnieroadster