Landracing Forum

Introductions => Formulas => Topic started by: Simspeed on April 15, 2019, 05:45:33 AM

Title: Steering Rules
Post by: Simspeed on April 15, 2019, 05:45:33 AM
Until my rule book(s) arrive I'd be interested to know if aero-steering is allowed in lieu of angular movement of tire/wheels for unlimited streamliners?  If wheel steering is required is there as distinction between the steering axle...example: is rear steering allowed;  also is there a minimum angle steering wheel(s) must turn?  Thanks...
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: RichFox on April 15, 2019, 09:55:20 AM
Aero steering will never fly. For so many reasons.  Rear steering would need a lot of demonstration, I bet, Has not worked well in the past. Is this for a FWD car? Corvair powered? Most 'liners don't turn much.
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: jacksoni on April 15, 2019, 11:38:17 AM
Though I didn't find the rule with quick look, I think rear steer is prohibited. Rule 3L says in part: " Steering shall be assured by at least two (2) front wheels."
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: tortoise on April 15, 2019, 01:24:31 PM
Until my rule book(s) arrive I'd be interested to know if aero-steering is allowed in lieu of angular movement of tire/wheels for unlimited streamliners? 

Breedlove tried it with the Spirit of America 3 wheeler. It didn't work for him.
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: dw230 on April 15, 2019, 02:11:18 PM
Some one in the past had a rear steer car. He said it was so bad that the next pass would be straight to the dumpster.

DW
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on April 15, 2019, 05:31:31 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but I think about the times I've damn near flipped forklifts , and I simply can't imagine why anybody would so much as proffer the idea of rear wheel steering in an LSR vehicle.
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: Stan Back on April 15, 2019, 05:55:38 PM
I figure it was because they saw the advantages of not having the complexity of steering a front-wheel drive.
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: Dynoroom on April 15, 2019, 06:49:41 PM
Playing Devil's advocate here..... But there was a rear steer LSR car that went 763 MPH.  :evil:

Of course it did have computers to help with the control.  8-)
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: manta22 on April 15, 2019, 07:09:51 PM
Playing Devil's advocate here..... But there was a rear steer LSR car that went 763 MPH.  :evil:

Of course it did have computers to help with the control.  8-)

It was not running at Speed Week.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: Bob Drury on April 15, 2019, 11:14:21 PM
  Nope, it's sonic wave might have leveled Floating Mountain as it passed by..................... :-D :-D 8-) :roll:
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: Simspeed on April 16, 2019, 06:27:10 PM
Thanks everyone for your responses.  Rear steering is not something I'm advocating for, just asking to learn all my options.  My body design has such a narrow front there's no room for conventional steering.  The max I can eek out with M/T 24.5x7.5x16 tires/wheels is 6 degrees lock to lock from a leading pivot wheel frame section.  I'm designing a fore and aft front wheel arrangement similar to Speed Demon and others.  I'm thinking at a modest speed (say above 150 mph) a vertical nose fin should provide adequate surface area to control L/R steering movement of the liner.  Anyone ever tried that?  Thanks...
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: jacksoni on April 16, 2019, 06:35:17 PM
A vertical fin on the front, moveable or not, moves the center of pressure forward, a circumstance that is undesirable.
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: Dynoroom on April 16, 2019, 07:04:48 PM
Thanks everyone for your responses.  Rear steering is not something I'm advocating for, just asking to learn all my options.  My body design has such a narrow front there's no room for conventional steering.  The max I can eek out with M/T 24.5x7.5x16 tires/wheels is 6 degrees lock to lock from a leading pivot wheel frame section.  I'm designing a fore and aft front wheel arrangement similar to Speed Demon and others.  I'm thinking at a modest speed (say above 150 mph) a vertical nose fin should provide adequate surface area to control L/R steering movement of the liner.  Anyone ever tried that?  Thanks...

6 degrees is more than enough. Ask Marlo, Danny Thompson, Nish, Vesco...
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: RichFox on April 16, 2019, 07:56:41 PM
Find Jack Costella on Google and ask him about narrow fronts that steer up to 400 mph. And also slowly when rolling up to the start line. Very helpful.
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: Glen on April 16, 2019, 09:43:50 PM
The Vesco liner has 6 degrees of steering 3 each way.. A lot of cars had to slow down their steering after a few runs as they don't want quick steer.
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: Simspeed on April 16, 2019, 11:34:36 PM
Thanks Glen and RichFox...that's good info to know.  Now I don't feel so bad with the limited steering my design allows. 
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: Stainless1 on April 17, 2019, 12:07:04 AM
Of course you will need to work on your 30 point turn arounds...  :-D

Well I can tell ya Rear Wheel steering is a bit of a problem.... although I know there was someone running it experimentally at El Mirage... one of the SCTA club officers if I remember....
But we tried it in 1978.... that's the year Marty crashed it about 1/4 mile out... maybe 55 MPH... fell over and slid forever according to Marty.... about 10 seconds  :roll:
Fixed it, changed from side by side to inline rear wheels...
In 1979 Marty said he wasn't driving it again,  :-o so Johnboy drove.... he made it about the same distance....  :|
It didn't just fall over... it jumped in the air and rolled a half dozen times before it hit the ground.  We were politely asked to never bring it back... Then they wrote a rule... Cars steer by 2 front wheels

In 1984 that liner was converted to a Lakester... one we raced successfully till 2017 when Johnboy again crashed it... but this time at 190... Oh sure it suffered a half a dozen spins over the years... but the last count was 10 records still in the book when it met its demise.
Don't do RWS  :cheers:
Title: Re: Steering Rules
Post by: manta22 on April 17, 2019, 11:51:03 AM
At the Salt Talks in 2006 (I think) I asked Andy Green how he ever got used to the rear steering on Thrust. He said "I never did really."

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ