Landracing Forum

Thrust-powered Land Speed information => Discussions on absolute land speed records => Topic started by: comet on December 07, 2018, 07:13:16 AM

Title: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: comet on December 07, 2018, 07:13:16 AM
see BBC news link below. Sad news that Bloodhound SSC will go into liquidation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c779dqq84njt/bloodhound-ssc





Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: sabat on December 07, 2018, 08:18:17 AM
It's sad to see the effort get so close and not make it. I hope this news causes some angel investor to save the project.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: J79 on December 07, 2018, 01:09:38 PM
Consider all the time and money invested and now it might end up in a museum? Bad news.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TrickyDicky on December 08, 2018, 06:41:11 AM
1,000 mph car for £250k ... bargain!  There must be someone out there ready to run with this project. 🐢
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Malcolm UK on December 08, 2018, 03:33:25 PM
1,000 mph car for £250k ... bargain!


For that price the rolling chassis will come without any method of propulsion and possibly minus some other donated parts. The Administrators have still to to tell what items they have for sale.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: ronnieroadster on December 08, 2018, 03:53:26 PM
1,000 mph car for £250k ... bargain!  There must be someone out there ready to run with this project. 🐢




  I think it should read UNFINISHED 1,000 mph car for 250k
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Stan Back on December 08, 2018, 04:17:19 PM
Maybe UNFINISHED and HOPED-FOR 1000-mph car . . .
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: tauruck on December 08, 2018, 04:20:29 PM
Well thank you Bloodhound project (BTW, named after a British missile built way back) for preparing the perfect surface for LSR at Hakskeen Pan.
Weird how stuff works hey?. South Africa and the Northern Cape thank you for providing employment to the hundreds of people that cleared the track. :cheers: :cheers:

Motor racing is tough. All the poor kids here that bought into the project are going to be disappointed.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: racergeo on December 08, 2018, 04:37:37 PM
   I hope B. Gates sees my post on Go Fund Me. I will let him be a co-driver if he springs for 10 mil.  :-D
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TrickyDicky on December 09, 2018, 04:38:11 AM
Well thank you Bloodhound project (BTW, named after a British missile built way back) for preparing the perfect surface for LSR at Hakskeen Pan.
Weird how stuff works hey?. South Africa and the Northern Cape thank you for providing employment to the hundreds of people that cleared the track. :cheers: :cheers:
...

Who owns the track?  I think Bloodhound had an agreement that no one else could use it before them.  Is it now available to others?
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: tauruck on December 09, 2018, 06:54:54 AM
You should get on "Live at the Apollo".

I'm a nice guy but you need a good hiding. :-D :wink:

NEWS FLASH. DEFUNCT BLOODHOUND POROJECT now owns South Africa!!!!!

PM me .
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: JR529 on December 10, 2018, 12:50:37 PM
I always wondered how they could burn through so much money and still have more. I guess they cant.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: manta22 on December 10, 2018, 02:05:32 PM
I think one of the problems they had was losing sight of the objective. It became a public relations project, publicity was its prime objective. It can be argued that publicity was necessary to entice contributions and vendor cooperation but they went too far in that direction. The necessary engineering and construction suffered de-emphasis due to the bandwagon management. For many years NASA suffered the same problems, they focused on publicity, "space camp", classroom science programs, and other Disneyland-style promotion. Too bad, it looks like Bloodhound will be all for naught.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on December 10, 2018, 03:32:20 PM
It's sad to see the effort get so close and not make it. I hope this news causes some angel investor to save the project.

Due to low ROI, investors steer clear of LSR - a philanthropist is what's required.

The Aussie Invader is in a similar situation in that they're looking for funds as well.

Seems the NA Eagle is the only financially viable absolute contender still standing.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: tauruck on December 10, 2018, 06:13:29 PM
I think one of the problems they had was losing sight of the objective. It became a public relations project, publicity was its prime objective. It can be argued that publicity was necessary to entice contributions and vendor cooperation but they went too far in that direction. The necessary engineering and construction suffered de-emphasis due to the bandwagon management. For many years NASA suffered the same problems, they focused on publicity, "space camp", classroom science programs, and other Disneyland-style promotion. Too bad, it looks like Bloodhound will be all for naught.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

When they were here they had all the school kids invested and going nuts.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 10, 2018, 06:29:27 PM
It's sad to see the effort get so close and not make it. I hope this news causes some angel investor to save the project.

Due to low ROI, investors steer clear of LSR - a philanthropist is what's required.

The Aussie Invader is in a similar situation in that they're looking for funds as well.

Seems the NA Eagle is the only financially viable absolute contender still standing.
I believe it doesn't fit FIA regulations.
  Sid.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: MAYOMAN on December 11, 2018, 04:48:05 PM
3 wheels. It meets FIM. However, as long as they don't go for the FIM's goofy "instantaneous speed"it would be interesting. The F104 goes Mach 2 - so what are they waiting for?
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: salt27 on December 11, 2018, 06:24:07 PM
Not that it matters but I believe NAE has 5 wheels.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: ack on December 11, 2018, 11:02:48 PM
The saddest part of this whole fiasco is that millions of dollars were squandered chasing this dream, dollars that could have funded many other interesting projects. I doubt any of the many sponsors will ever want to spend a dollar more on land speed attempts. Same holds true for the recent Triumph effort.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Malcolm UK on December 12, 2018, 01:46:34 AM
Interesting to read how Bloodhound SSC has been seen from across the pond. May I remind readers that setting a new land speed record was never top of the list of goals for that project - enthusing new engineers was the top aim.

Some of us, [OK that's me], do not see the corporate effort by Triumph as being a truly 'British' land speed effort at the outright two wheel speed record. However, there are still three different UK based projects working towards taking Mike's and Rocky's record away from the USA.

These are the 52 Express (turbine wheeldriven), Angelic Bulldog (conventional m/c motors) and Jet Reaction (thrust power on two wheels). Each has used a different 'business model' to make progress towards running.


 
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 12, 2018, 01:49:58 AM
What happened to the Triumph project?









Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: stay`tee on December 12, 2018, 02:43:34 AM
What happened to the Triumph project?


  x 2 







Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: stay`tee on December 12, 2018, 02:56:20 AM
The saddest part of this whole fiasco is that millions of dollars were squandered chasing this dream, dollars that could have funded many other interesting projects. I doubt any of the many sponsors will ever want to spend a dollar more on land speed attempts. Same holds true for the recent Triumph effort.

I agree 100* with Ack, how many times have we seen folks in "motor sports" with grandeous dreams "Expect" somewon else to fund them,, only to see them fail, leaving the person who has put his money on the line with a dirty taste in his mouth,,
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Malcolm UK on December 12, 2018, 06:38:51 AM
What happened to the Triumph project?

There is so little news in the UK.  My best guess is that it went back into a US facility for motor rebuilds (it ingested salt) and chassis check after it fell over with Guy at the controls. The deterioration of the salt has been given as a reason to wait out this year. 
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: martine on December 12, 2018, 07:39:09 AM
Interesting to read how Bloodhound SSC has been seen from across the pond. May I remind readers that setting a new land speed record was never top of the list of goals for that project - enthusing new engineers was the top aim!
Absolutely Malcolm - and the education side (a separate charity) continues with many ambassadors working with schools and inspiring pupils.  Personally, I do many public bloodhounnd talks to interested groups and have several dates lined-up next year.  It's an interesting, fascinating story but would be better if the car continued.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: RidgeRunner on December 12, 2018, 08:00:57 AM
     All doesn't have to be lost or forgotten about.  There is much value in teaching that identifying and learning from the failures of the big project can be applied to other projects. 

     An old co worker used to say - "Sometimes you just have to back up to get a better run on the hill"...........

                   Ed
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: manta22 on December 12, 2018, 10:38:42 AM
Malcom;

"Interesting to read how Bloodhound SSC has been seen from across the pond. May I remind readers that setting a new land speed record was never top of the list of goals for that project - enthusing new engineers was the top aim."

I rest my case.... if it wasn't their their primary goal, they sure spent a lot of money on secondary hardware. How "enthused" are those kids going to be now that their inspiration has failed before even getting to Africa? There are quite a few cars at SW that go faster than Bloodhound ever ran- and these cost far less to develop.

Failing and then excusing it by saying we really weren't trying is like the US Navy saying "We weren't really trying to launch a satellite." after the spectacularly failed launch of their Vanguard rocket.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: MAYOMAN on December 12, 2018, 11:05:20 AM
Salt 27 - yes, I missed seeing those 2 small belly wheels before. Usually they were obscured by the sand screening  them at speed or from the camera angle. Sorry.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: salt27 on December 12, 2018, 12:22:05 PM
Salt 27 - yes, I missed seeing those 2 small belly wheels before. Usually they were obscured by the sand screening  them at speed or from the camera angle. Sorry.


Mayoman, No need to be sorry, those wheels are hard to see.

I wonder if the two center wheels were placed there for structural concerns.

As they are placed about where the wings used to be that supported the aircraft when aloft.

 Don
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: gowing on December 12, 2018, 01:00:33 PM
After the success of the Thrust SSC, I was curious and excited to see what next on the drawing board.
The bloodhound looked to be a logical successor to the "fastest" crown.

It wasn't long until it seemed that "fundraising" was a primary focus of the project, and I lost interest.
The 2017 test runs renewed my hopes that running the car was still a possibility, But now I suspect that it was a
publicity stunt in order to hopefully obtain more funding.

I find it interesting that the track was completed before the car.
 I don't think that I would have done things in that order (putting the cart before the horse), but I assume that their
management  had a valid reason at the time.

R.I.P. Boondoggle, I mean Bloodhound.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TD on December 12, 2018, 04:36:04 PM
Interesting to read how Bloodhound SSC has been seen from across the pond. May I remind readers that setting a new land speed record was never top of the list of goals for that project - enthusing new engineers was the top aim.

Malcolm, having followed the project since its inception, having been very peripherally associated with it at one time through my former employer, and before that having followed the Thrust SSC program extremely closely, all from across the pond, I have to ask whether this was the case at the beginning?

I ask after once having read and again found https://government.diginomica.com/2017/07/26/bloodhound-oracle-chase-1000-mph-land-record-hope-inspire-generation-stem-students/ (https://government.diginomica.com/2017/07/26/bloodhound-oracle-chase-1000-mph-land-record-hope-inspire-generation-stem-students/), which suggests a somewhat different history:

Noble:  Anyhow, so that was that. And the next thing that happened was we found multiple challengers going after our record. So Andy Green, who drove for us, I met in a pub in Whitehall and we said, “What are we going to do?” So we decided what we would do is we would challenge. This would be the last car. This is the last time we’re going to do this. We would challenge. And we estimated the competition might get to 800, so therefore, we’ve got to go faster.

...

Noble said that during his (2008) meeting with the Minister, Drayson said:

What I want you to do is to take your project and run it through every single school in the country and get us a new generation of scientist and engineers.

Now one could fairly state that education was an important goal of the project from very early on, but if one believes what's written on the web (at one's peril) it seems like simply going faster than the rest was what motivated Noble initally, and the meeting with Lord Drayson, held to seek MoD support for the program, was the genesis of the STEM educational goal.

Whatever the history, they've met the goal admirably IMO, and it is a shame the program appears to be ending.



Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: gowing on December 12, 2018, 04:51:47 PM
copied from the Bloodhound SSC website:

BLOODHOUND SSC is a unique, high-technology project to design and build a car that will break the 1,000mph barrier and set a new world land speed record. Designed and constructed in the UK, BLOODHOUND SSC includes components and sponsorship from international companies and will make its record attempt in South Africa.

We are sharing this international engineering adventure with a global audience. Why? Because we love science, technology, engineering and mathematics , and BLOODHOUND SSC shows how amazing – and fun – they can be!
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Stainless1 on December 12, 2018, 08:39:00 PM
Yea... the love of science, technology, engineering and mathematics..... I guess those folks that love that stuff need to get paid... and those of us in the real world know that science, technology, engineering and mathematics costs money... lots of money
 :dhorse:
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Eddieschopshop on December 13, 2018, 04:13:55 PM
The worst part about this whole thing,  is that for years the project has talked as if they had already done it.  I always shake my head when people are patting themselves on the back too hard before actually accomplishing anything.  The target 550 comes to mind... beautiful car though.  I'd rather be ugly and fast. 
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 14, 2018, 12:43:24 AM
The worst part about this whole thing,  is that for years the project has talked as if they had already done it.  I always shake my head when people are patting themselves on the back too hard before actually accomplishing anything.  The target 550 comes to mind... beautiful car though.  I'd rather be ugly and fast. 

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
  Sid.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wheelrdealer on December 14, 2018, 09:27:11 AM

All in all, all  of the vehicles in this discussion were built and may have great potential. It takes great commitment to build something on the scale of the Bloodhound, Target 550 and others. I respect that some will end up in the museum of unrealized potential. As a matter of fact my car fits in that category right now. But I really respect the fact that these people tried or are trying. 

In closing, I hope these teams keep working and building unique vehicles that they think will work.



Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Malcolm UK on December 14, 2018, 04:01:08 PM
The timing of the factors which brought to the public the Bloodhound SSC Project and decisions that were made are now difficult to ascertain (unless someone has kept all that has been written in a chronological archive).

In the book published with the help of the team in October 2012 it was clearly stated what the Bloodhound SSC Programme four prime objectives were - 1, Inspire a new generation of engineers. 2, Provide an iconic research and development programme with student access. 3, Exceed 1000mph (1609km/h) on land. 4, Generate substantial publicity and brand awareness for the sponsors.

A telling quote from the same book was "This new Project is unique in many ways, not least of which because it is a Land Speed Record attempt that is not really about speed at all …"

It was and perhaps still is an 'Engineering Adventure'
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TrickyDicky on December 14, 2018, 06:11:25 PM
You should get on "Live at the Apollo".

I'm a nice guy but you need a good hiding. :-D :wink:

NEWS FLASH. DEFUNCT BLOODHOUND POROJECT now owns South Africa!!!!!

PM me .

PM sent.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on December 16, 2018, 11:17:01 AM
The true measure of good engineering is to achieve the desired results with a minimal number of complex and interdependent subsystems.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Malcolm UK on December 17, 2018, 05:15:03 AM
The Business news this morning in the UK is that FRP Advisory have secured a new owner for the Bloodhound Programme. The buyer will make an announcement in the new year. The named buyer is Ian Warhurst who used to own a turbocharger manufacturing company.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TrickyDicky on December 17, 2018, 07:16:55 AM
The Business news this morning in the UK is that FRP Advisory have secured a new owner for the Bloodhound Programme. The buyer will make an announcement in the new year. The named buyer is Ian Warhurst who used to own a turbocharger manufacturing company.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-46591860
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: sabat on December 17, 2018, 10:26:10 AM
Hooray!  I wonder if the core team will remain in place.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 20, 2019, 02:24:49 PM
This just showed up in my inbox.



Embargoed 13:00 GMT 21.03.19
Revitalised Bloodhound gets new livery and headquarters
Bloodhound project ready to move forward under new ownership
Financial stability will underpin sponsorship for world land speed record runs
Project renamed Bloodhound LSR as part of overall rebranding
Car and team move to new headquarters in heart of college campus
 
At today’s opening of the project’s new headquarters, the Bloodhound Land Speed Record (LSR) team announced they are firmly back on the trail of a world land speed record. Under the new ownership of Ian Warhurst, CEO of Grafton LSR Ltd, the freshly assembled Bloodhound LSR team will focus on completing development of the jet- and rocket-powered car and moving to the next phase of the programme – high speed testing – as soon as possible.
 
The new name, Bloodhound LSR, accompanies a complete rebranding of the programme. This includes a visual transformation of the car, which was revealed in a new striking red and white livery as she moves into her new home at SGS Berkeley Green University Technical College (UTC) on the Gloucestershire Science and Technology Park.
 
Grafton LSR Ltd CEO Ian Warhurst said: “Since buying Bloodhound from the administrators last December, the team and I have been overwhelmed by the passion and enthusiasm the public have shown for the project. Over the last decade, an incredible amount of hard graft has been invested in the project and it would be a tragedy to see it go to waste.
 
“Starting with a clean slate, it’s my ambition to let Bloodhound off the leash see just how fast this car can go. I’ve been reviewing the project and I’m confident there is a commercial business proposition to support it. I’ll provide robust financing to ensure there is cashflow to hit the high-speed testing deadlines we set ourselves.”
 
New headquarters
The UK Land Speed Record Centre at SGS Berkeley Green UTC provides a 975 square metre workshop facility in the heart of the college campus, fulfilling Bloodhound’s promise of delivering educational inspiration.
 
SGS Berkeley Green UTS group chief executive and executive principal Kevin Hamblin said; "We're excited that Bloodhound is joining us at Berkeley. To have such a groundbreaking engineering project on site which shares our philosophy to enthuse and encourage the next generation of engineers, designers and scientists, will be invaluable for our own students and also for thousands of young people across the region who will have an opportunity to visit the Gloucestershire Science and Technology Park over the next few years and see the car for themselves."
 
Team list
The Bloodhound LSR team is headed up by Ian Warhurst. Ian is joined by driver and current world land speed record holder Andy Green, engineering director Mark Chapman, chief financial officer Rick Sturge, operations director Martyn Davidson, commercial director Ewen Honeyman, and many of the original mechanics and technicians, providing continuity from the old programme to the new.
 
Former CEO Bloodhound Programme Ltd Richard Noble, said “It was a very hard fight to create the Bloodhound car, the largest STEM programme in the UK, the public engagement programme and the 1,000 man year desert preparation. Our weakness had always been finance and now after Administration, with Ian Warhurst the team finally has the financial support it needs to drive forward with confidence and achieve what we set out to do nearly 12 years ago.
 
Sponsorship and branding
The Bloodhound LSR car’s bare red and white livery is likely to change once the sponsorship team’s discussions over title branding opportunities with interested parties reach fruition. The iconic blue and orange livery from the R&D phase will live on in photos and film.
 
Grafton LSR commercial director Ewen Honeyman said: “With Ian providing the cashflow to keep the project on track, Bloodhound LSR is a very different sponsorship proposition to the blue and orange car. We’re already having detailed discussions with a number of organisations about exciting new sponsorship possibilities, as well as talking to those involved in the previous phase of the programme.”
 
- Ends -
 
For interviews and more information please contact:
Jules Tipler jules.tipler@graftonlsr.com / +44 (0) 7811 166 796
 
Assets will be uploaded to this Drop Box folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dtqvvzxhvgoq8t6/AABDUIn4wt0GimQwsbBFqvsDa?dl=0
 
Notes to editors
Timescales: Dates for both the high speed test runs and the world land speed record runs will be announced once operational and logistics planning is complete
1,000mph: Initially the target is to break the world land speed record (currently 763.035mph). This is necessary to understand how the car behaves as it enters the transonic stage initially and then supersonic speed levels. After that we will target the maximum design speed of around 1,000mph, taking into account the success and subsequent review of the first phase
Funding: The next phase of the Bloodhound LSR project will be funded through sponsorship and partnerships, with cashflow supported by the project’s investor, Ian Warhurst. Sponsorship opportunities include title and livery sponsorship for the first time
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: 7707 on March 20, 2019, 02:45:26 PM
Sorry but words are cheap. The proof is when it runs. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: noboD on March 20, 2019, 02:54:58 PM
Sorry but words are cheap. The proof is when it runs. Simple as that.
  True, but he put his money where his mouth is. Good luck to him.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: sabat on March 20, 2019, 04:07:39 PM
Best of luck to them, I'm glad the project will continue. REALLY glad to see that Andy Green is still driving.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Phil UK on March 20, 2019, 05:10:15 PM
Embargoed 13.00 GMT 21.03.2019.  Hmmmmm
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Stan Back on March 20, 2019, 08:59:13 PM
It's great news that they're concentrating on the livery.  I think they're on the right track with red and white.  There're so many shades of red; this may take a committee to narrow the contenders.  Full speed ahead!
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Mark Elvin on March 21, 2019, 06:01:52 AM
How do these things get leaked?

Interesting to read.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: floydjer on March 21, 2019, 09:14:57 AM
Oh no...NOT re-sale red.... :cheers:
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TrickyDicky on March 21, 2019, 09:58:08 AM
There is a pared back web site at http://www.bloodhoundlsr.com/ and the old web site has (almost) disappeared.  Seems a shame to lose all that information about the first 10 years.

The car is mostly white at the moment (very little red at all), but for a small fee it appears you get to choose the final colour scheme.  :-D  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TrickyDicky on March 21, 2019, 10:04:40 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47650453.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: racefanwfo on March 21, 2019, 06:13:07 PM
I guess that changing the color of the car is a real step forward in breaking the record.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: 7707 on March 21, 2019, 06:52:51 PM
Sorry but words are cheap. The proof is when it runs. Simple as that.
  True, but he put his money where his mouth is. Good luck to him.

Hhmmm....the jury is out on that one.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 01, 2019, 11:16:46 PM
www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47735093 (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47735093)  A recent article about the project progress.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: sabat on April 02, 2019, 09:02:33 AM
www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47735093 (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47735093)  A recent article about the project progress.

Written by Andy Green :)
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 09, 2019, 07:51:58 PM
A recent article. Enough money is obtained to reach 500 to 600 mph. www.bbc.com/news/av/science-environment-48925427 (http://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-environment-48925427)
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 09, 2019, 07:58:25 PM
An article about the aluminum wheels. www.bbc.com/news/av/science-environment-48925425 (http://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-environment-48925425)
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: MAYOMAN on July 13, 2019, 02:45:35 PM
I have been following the progress of the absolute world land speed record for the past 50 years. I am dumbfounded by the insistence of Thrust 2, Thrust SSC, Bloodhound, and Aussie Invader 5R to eschew pneumatic tires and instead run their vehicles on solid metal wheels.
Since the coefficient of friction of the metal wheels on dry salt lakes, or other hard surfaces, is insufficient to provide steering control they must find semi-soft surfaces to run on. Since these metal wheels obtain steering control by, in effect, machining grooves in the race course surface, they literally destroy the course as they run and cannot return on the exact same path. Also, finding the optimal surface composition for the record course seems to be adding unnecessary complication to the search for the land speed record venues.
When we ran The Blue Flame in 1970 on pneumatic tires, the steering control was excellent as the coefficient of friction approached that of rubber on asphalt or concrete. The Goodyear tires and our wheels were tested at Goodyear at speeds up to 850 mi/h without failure. The only failure in testing occurred when the wheel mounting mandrel broke loose at speed and the tire and wheel spun around in the concrete test cell. The wheel, while not being used afterward, only had some gouges on the rim from impacting the cell walls and still looked nice as a display piece.
Three of the four pneumatic tires and wheels were replaced for minor reasons on the salt flats. When one of the two front tires leaked air (probably the O-ring seal between the wheel center and the outer flange), we replaced both at the same time. One of the rear tires was replaced after a towed braking incident (locked up tire and skidded) wore through most of the thin rubber tread. The fourth tire was used for all 24 timed runs.
Since we could design and build 850 mi/h pneumatic tires 50 years ago, it should be a simple task to design and build 1,000 mi/h tires (and wheels) with the materials and design improvements since that period of time. When I think of all the time wasted by the LSR teams trying to use metal wheels for providing the steering function I am amazed. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on July 14, 2019, 01:10:57 AM
My experience is with the Oregon state highway department pavement research program.  Higher tire internal air pressures do create greater tire contact patch pressures.  It is not often a linear relationship but it is close.  The "tire pressure" in metal wheels is related to the moduli of elasticity which is magnitudes higher than the contact pressure with pneumatic tires.  Solid tires do tear up the racing surface.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: fordboy628 on July 14, 2019, 07:06:03 AM
I have been following the progress of the absolute world land speed record for the past 50 years. I am dumbfounded by the insistence of Thrust 2, Thrust SSC, Bloodhound, and Aussie Invader 5R to eschew pneumatic tires and instead run their vehicles on solid metal wheels.
Since the coefficient of friction of the metal wheels on dry salt lakes, or other hard surfaces, is insufficient to provide steering control they must find semi-soft surfaces to run on. Since these metal wheels obtain steering control by, in effect, machining grooves in the race course surface, they literally destroy the course as they run and cannot return on the exact same path. Also, finding the optimal surface composition for the record course seems to be adding unnecessary complication to the search for the land speed record venues.
When we ran The Blue Flame in 1970 on pneumatic tires, the steering control was excellent as the coefficient of friction approached that of rubber on asphalt or concrete. The Goodyear tires and our wheels were tested at Goodyear at speeds up to 850 mi/h without failure. The only failure in testing occurred when the wheel mounting mandrel broke loose at speed and the tire and wheel spun around in the concrete test cell. The wheel, while not being used afterward, only had some gouges on the rim from impacting the cell walls and still looked nice as a display piece.
Three of the four pneumatic tires and wheels were replaced for minor reasons on the salt flats. When one of the two front tires leaked air (probably the O-ring seal between the wheel center and the outer flange), we replaced both at the same time. One of the rear tires was replaced after a towed braking incident (locked up tire and skidded) wore through most of the thin rubber tread. The fourth tire was used for all 24 timed runs.
Since we could design and build 850 mi/h pneumatic tires 50 years ago, it should be a simple task to design and build 1,000 mi/h tires (and wheels) with the materials and design improvements since that period of time. When I think of all the time wasted by the LSR teams trying to use metal wheels for providing the steering function I am amazed. Just my opinion.

My experience is with the Oregon state highway department pavement research program.  Higher tire internal air pressures do create greater tire contact patch pressures.  It is not often a linear relationship but it is close.  The "tire pressure" in metal wheels is related to the moduli of elasticity which is magnitudes higher than the contact pressure with pneumatic tires.  Solid tires do tear up the racing surface.

It is called "common sense".

But in my experience, it turns out that it is NOT very "common" at all . . . . . . .

YMMV

The ability of other engineers to logically work through difficult engineering problems, seems to me, to have "diminished" over the span of my career.   Now it seems everyone wants to be a "specialist", with no regard for the overall program, or how "their segment" fits into the overall scheme.   You can't "get to the Moon" with that sort of attitude.   And the "moon" you do get . . . .  well, use your imagination . . . . . .  :roll:

 :dhorse:
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: MAYOMAN on July 14, 2019, 01:37:38 PM
This section view of The Blue Flame rear wheel and pneumatic tire assembly will give a little better idea of what we did in 1970. The outer wheel flanges were sealed with rubber O-rings. Tire pressure was 350 psi. The tire imprint on the salt surface, with aerodynamic loading at 660 mi/h, was about 2 inches wide as the tire cross section expanded outward from inertia. The impression was barely visible, maybe 1/8 inch or less deep. With computerized solid modeling and analysis available now, the wheel design could have been more aero and less massive. We had planned to re-visit wheel fairings for the planned supersonic attempts in later record attempts. Our schedule for design and construction for 1970 was very tight, so we compromised to meet the less than 2 years' time available.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on August 02, 2019, 03:00:42 PM
An article about the upcoming journey to Africa.https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49184375 (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49184375)
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 23, 2019, 01:29:47 AM
An update on the Bloodhound progress.https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49669929 (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49669929)
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on October 21, 2019, 10:38:59 AM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/worlds-fastest-car-unveiled-can-20666278 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/worlds-fastest-car-unveiled-can-20666278)
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TrickyDicky on October 21, 2019, 12:25:21 PM
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/bloodhound-shown-desert-spec-ahead-high-speed-tests
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Doc B. on October 21, 2019, 04:17:10 PM
RaceDay has been putting up some live coverage at Hakskeen Pan on their Facebook page.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: racefanwfo on October 22, 2019, 07:25:45 PM
So it has been 5 days since bloodhound has been on the pan and they still have not run the car. What are they waiting for.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 22, 2019, 09:18:03 PM
Go onto the "Science" page on the BBC World News website to find their latest posts.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 23, 2019, 10:13:43 PM
News from today.https://www.bloodhoundlsr.com/bloodhound-catches-the-scent-of-a-world-record-as-desert-spec-car-revealed-for-first-time/ (https://www.bloodhoundlsr.com/bloodhound-catches-the-scent-of-a-world-record-as-desert-spec-car-revealed-for-first-time/)
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: MAYOMAN on October 25, 2019, 04:31:16 PM
Bloodhound takes first drive across the desert
By Jonathan Amos BBC Science Correspondent
The Bloodhound supersonic car has completed its first drive across the Hakskeen dry lake in South Africa.
Pilot Andy Green took the jet-powered vehicle on a gentle 100mph (160km/h) shakedown test run on Friday.
Bloodhound is in Northern Cape for high-speed trials as it works towards an assault on the land speed record next year.
That mark - of 763mph (1,228km/h) - was set 22 years ago, also by Andy Green, in the Thrust SSC car.
Thrust broke the sound barrier in the process - the first, and only, car to have achieved the feat.
   Bloodhound car arrives in South Africa
   Supersonic car set for high-speed trials
   Relaunch for land speed record car

 Bloodhound will be run at progressively faster and faster speeds in the coming days as engineers seek to verify its design and the proper working of its subsystems.
With a Eurofighter jet engine onboard, it should be capable of reaching 500-600mph (800-965km/h) this year. The addition of a rocket motor in 2020 ought then to take the car over 800mph (1,290km/h).
Engineers will be looking in particular at how much drag Bloodhound is producing in these trials. This will determine the level of thrust they will need from the rocket.
They will also be checking that the parachutes and brakes can bring the car safely to a stop at the end of a high-speed run.
Up to a dozen runs are planned between now and mid November, with the first six taking the speed up in steps of 50mph (80km/h).
The desert floor has been painted to mark out an array of parallel tracks. End to end, these are about 16km (10 miles) long.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on October 26, 2019, 04:57:37 PM
Here's a summary of Bloodhound's first run.

https://www.bloodhoundlsr.com/run-report-profile-1/?fbclid=IwAR20j3LP5Foy1nYBMS2inAj78coOsC_mfp4UdWt3ywV8d08v6FcX6EXlyAY



There's nothing like making a few little notes after a run, but geez.  Here's an excerpt from the summary:



Fuel 61% to 14% indicated.  18 min 30 sec run time.

 

    Good start, 52 sec to idle RPM.
    Car rolls at between 55 and 58 NL, on the soft-ish surface at km 5.
    Speed increased in steps, with momentary stops in between. Power stepped up gradually to max dry for final accels.
    Max speed 99 mph.
    Ride is very firm, as expected, with the minor bumps on the track being felt through chassis. Steering is responsive, but not as precise as the Newquay car on tarmac, also as expected.
    Causeway crossed at 50 mph and re-crossed at 75 mph. No major ride disturbance in either direction.
    Comms
        Still difficult with Start Team in high background noise (with AST/EJ200 running).
        First ?Km 4? call from Rescue 1 was unintelligible, Car stopped as a precaution. Repeat call from Rescue 1, and relay from Control, both loud and clear, suggesting one-off corruption of transmission.
    At North end of track, the ?W turn? worked well to turn the Car round and point back down track. Turn radius of the Car is 260-270m.
    Brake pressure gradually increased to 25 Bar with no sign of wheel lock (SKID caption not yet working, pending sensor repair). Small but noticeable decel effect at 25 Bar, as expected.  Max brake temp 250C (against a limit of 500C).  Front bearing temps showed slight increase due to transferred heat.
    Car cooling system working hard with brief temperature warning during final decel, which went out again as the Car stopped.
    90 sec cool down and normal engine shut down.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Stan Back on October 26, 2019, 07:16:31 PM
Some what familiar to a 350cc MPS/PBG run at SpeedWeek.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 27, 2019, 12:58:03 AM
Another article.https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50187798 (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50187798)
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TD on March 03, 2020, 09:42:52 AM
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/land-speed-records/funding-gap-puts-bloodhound-lsr-project-in-jeopardy
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TrickyDicky on March 04, 2020, 06:57:20 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51715582

Don't believe everything you read in the press ...  :wink:
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: woz on March 27, 2020, 03:08:27 PM
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2020/03/27/without-additional-funding-bloodhound-lsr-puts-its-land-speed-record-program-on-ice/?refer=news&utm_source=edaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-03-27


Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on December 28, 2020, 08:46:58 PM
https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/800-mph-jet-powered-car-180976346/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20201228-daily-responsive&spMailingID=44180016&spUserID=OTAyNTEyNTgwMzc2S0&spJobID=1902474250&spReportId=MTkwMjQ3NDI1MAS2 (https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/800-mph-jet-powered-car-180976346/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20201228-daily-responsive&spMailingID=44180016&spUserID=OTAyNTEyNTgwMzc2S0&spJobID=1902474250&spReportId=MTkwMjQ3NDI1MAS2)

Mike
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: floydjer on January 25, 2021, 05:50:21 PM
For sale sign on the window...again.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TD on January 25, 2021, 05:51:33 PM
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/land-speed-records/bloodhound-lsr-up-for-sale-in-last-chance-for-project

Maybe this belongs in the "For Sale" sections?  :?
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on January 25, 2021, 07:00:23 PM
Budweiser is not doing the Stupid Bowl this year so they would have the $$$$.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: MAYOMAN on January 25, 2021, 07:45:25 PM
Just like they had the money to fund and publicize the phony supersonic non-record with the Budmobile. Best to stay away from that lot for credibility.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: martine on January 27, 2021, 06:15:56 PM
Yes it's bad news but not surprising and might be the end of this amazing, inspiring project - but with CV19 sweeping the world and only just beginning to come under some sort of control, it's probably not something any sponsor wants at the moment. 

There are more important things in the world after all.  :x
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on January 29, 2021, 08:29:19 PM
Even the Smithsonian Magazine is reporting on the sale: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/supersonic-car-designed-break-land-speed-record-sale-again-180976875/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210129-daily-responsive&spMailingID=44355761&spUserID=OTAyNTEyNTgwMzc2S0&spJobID=1922594199&spReportId=MTkyMjU5NDE5OQS2 (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/supersonic-car-designed-break-land-speed-record-sale-again-180976875/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210129-daily-responsive&spMailingID=44355761&spUserID=OTAyNTEyNTgwMzc2S0&spJobID=1922594199&spReportId=MTkyMjU5NDE5OQS2)

Mike
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Beef Stew on January 29, 2021, 11:24:49 PM
Even the Smithsonian Magazine is reporting on the sale: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/supersonic-car-designed-break-land-speed-record-sale-again-180976875/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210129-daily-responsive&spMailingID=44355761&spUserID=OTAyNTEyNTgwMzc2S0&spJobID=1922594199&spReportId=MTkyMjU5NDE5OQS2 (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/supersonic-car-designed-break-land-speed-record-sale-again-180976875/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210129-daily-responsive&spMailingID=44355761&spUserID=OTAyNTEyNTgwMzc2S0&spJobID=1922594199&spReportId=MTkyMjU5NDE5OQS2)

Mike

According to the article to install the rocket, and develop a pump system to feed it fuel, it will cost about $11 million.

Not many companies could make a profit from a Land Speed Record. No rubber tires, no gasoline, no anything to sponsor. So that probably isn't going to happen.

Maybe selling the Movie Rights to an aging-action-hero-actor, would work. Who would make the best Andy Green? Ben Affleck, Roger Craig, Brad Pitt, Robert Redford, Sylvester Stallone?

Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: floydjer on January 30, 2021, 08:46:48 PM
Bradley Cooper!  He could pop the canopy and snap off a couple 2,000 meter head shots...... :cheers:
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: martine on January 31, 2021, 04:10:59 PM
Quote
According to the article to install the rocket, and develop a pump system to feed it fuel, it will cost about $11 million.

Not many companies could make a profit from a Land Speed Record. No rubber tires, no gasoline, no anything to sponsor. So that probably isn't going to happen...

eerrr...take a look at past sponsors...the list is very impressive with both large and small companies...

https://www.bloodhoundlsr.com/partners-sponsors/past-sponsors/

They obviously saw something in Bloodhound be it education, product placement or just the chance to be part of something amazing?
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: gowing on January 31, 2021, 06:11:05 PM
that is quite a list of past sponsors.
I honestly can't see the value in having my name on a race car that never moves, maybe these guys didn't either.

Amazing.... Inspiring... Educational.   
All great fundraising buzzwords , however, in the end, nothing was accomplished but endlessly burning thru money.

It's time to just stop the project and let this boondoggle die.
obviously the cash cow has been milked dry.

Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Beef Stew on January 31, 2021, 08:14:01 PM

eerrr...take a look at past sponsors...the list is very impressive with both large and small companies...

https://www.bloodhoundlsr.com/partners-sponsors/past-sponsors/

They obviously saw something in Bloodhound be it education, product placement or just the chance to be part of something amazing?

Not amazing enough to donate another 11 million.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: martine on February 01, 2021, 04:41:04 PM
...I honestly can't see the value in having my name on a race car that never moves, maybe these guys didn't either.

Amazing.... Inspiring... Educational.   
All great fundraising buzzwords , however, in the end, nothing was accomplished but endlessly burning thru money...
That's a little harsh...it 'moved' at 628mph just over a year ago...with worldwide press and tv coverage...
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: ack on February 01, 2021, 07:33:09 PM
that is quite a list of past sponsors.
I honestly can't see the value in having my name on a race car that never moves, maybe these guys didn't either.

Amazing.... Inspiring... Educational.   
All great fundraising buzzwords , however, in the end, nothing was accomplished but endlessly burning thru money.

It's time to just stop the project and let this boondoggle die.
obviously the cash cow has been milked dry.

To me it looks like a cobbled up POC thrown together out of spare aerospace parts. But then they only had $68M (US) and maybe 20 or so full-time engineers. At lease Thrust 2 and Thrust SSC had some style. As I have posted before it is a shame that so much money was sucked up by this project from companies that will never put another dime in a land speed effort. My money is on Rosco. His car built with a tiny fraction of the money frittered away on this project.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: Speed Limit 1000 on February 01, 2021, 10:10:11 PM
Only 69M, maybe MAYOMAN would get involved if we could get him that amount of cash cromag
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: PorkPie on February 02, 2021, 08:12:55 AM
Well, this attempt is now so long active that the most people forgot what caused this delay.....

There was a self announced super rocket expert who came into this project at the very beginning....

and his concept failed complete...totally crashed would be the better words....

what follows was more self announced experts....and they all failed, too.....

for each experts the racer has to be redesigned completely....and modified and rebuild.....

this cost lots of time......and more....it cost lots of money from sponsors.....

so, one of the main reason for that delay was the overpowered ego of some people who meant only they know right.....

a typical today cause.....
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: TD on February 02, 2021, 10:14:07 AM
I recall the original plan for the rocket oxidizer pump drive was a 3.5L Cosworth F1 motor.

Then Jaguar came on board as a sponsor and the plan was changed to use a Jaguar motor, with some form of forced induction. 

Last I knew they were planning to use an electric drive.

Whatever they chose, it was going to have to fit in the space defined by the existing chassis and cockpit monocoque.

Disclaimer:  I did not check any of this on the B SSC web site.

Tim
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: desotoman on February 02, 2021, 12:20:49 PM
Well, this attempt is now so long active that the most people forgot what caused this delay.....

There was a self announced super rocket expert who came into this project at the very beginning....

and his concept failed complete...totally crashed would be the better words....

what follows was more self announced experts....and they all failed, too.....

for each experts the racer has to be redesigned completely....and modified and rebuild.....

this cost lots of time......and more....it cost lots of money from sponsors.....

so, one of the main reason for that delay was the overpowered ego of some people who meant only they know right.....

a typical today cause.....

Wow, that sounds like what I hear on the TV News channels here every night.  :naughty

Tom G.
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: PorkPie on February 02, 2021, 12:50:58 PM
Tom G.

"...a typical today cause....."

I wouldn't say that the Bloodhound project stands alone...... :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: MAYOMAN on February 02, 2021, 03:02:38 PM
GO ROSCO!!!!
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: martine on February 03, 2021, 05:52:21 PM
I recall the original plan for the rocket oxidizer pump drive was a 3.5L Cosworth F1 motor.

Then Jaguar came on board as a sponsor and the plan was changed to use a Jaguar motor, with some form of forced induction. 

Last I knew they were planning to use an electric drive.
Yep you're right - problem with option 1 was Cosworth sadly withdrew from F1 (after very successful testing using their stunning engine) and so understandably lost their enthusiasm for promoting a defunct engine.

Option 2 - Jaguar engine was lovely (it's supercharged by the way) and plenty powerful enough with a custom designed (by bloodhound engineers) and remarkably efficient pump attached but...

Option 3 - with battery/electric motors technology being improved all the time (and of course they are 'green') it was felt this was a simpler solution for the future and making use of the latest tech.

The Bloodhound project has been running in anger for well over 10 years and it has just 2 main goals:
In THAT order of importance.

Being a Bloodhound Ambassador I think I can say goal #1 has been smashed...but #2...well they are close but may be sadly it will finish now  :oops:
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: tallguy on March 03, 2021, 01:38:28 AM
I'd be willing to donate to help the Bloodhound project eventually succeed (at least in breaking the existing LSR).  Are they still accepting donations from poor individuals like me? 
Title: Re: Bloodhound latest news
Post by: martine on March 03, 2021, 06:08:26 PM
I'd be willing to donate to help the Bloodhound project eventually succeed (at least in breaking the existing LSR).  Are they still accepting donations from poor individuals like me?
Nice thought but no I don't think they are...unless you have ?8m?