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Misc Forums => LSR General Chat => Topic started by: mtiberio on October 16, 2018, 02:34:40 PM

Title: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: mtiberio on October 16, 2018, 02:34:40 PM
I sometimes wonder, if you are making a run with no chance and no intention of breaking a record, is your run less valid than one made with the intent and preparation necessary to break a record? In other words, should only those vehicles/teams that are serious about breaking records be allowed to run? Or is running at 75% of a record a valid use of the SCTA's time and personnel? I'm wondering because last year I ran for records, got one and then sold my vehicle last winter. I want to get some more time on the lake bed, but will not have a competitive vehicle, and frankly I'm not sure I ever will spend what is necessary to win records again. For $5K I can get a vehicle capable of going over 175, but no where near a record. Is that OK? If I take my "slow" vehicle, and can come back meet after meet, and eek out another mile per hour or two, I'd consider that a personal victory. Is that type of racing frowned upon?

These are rhetorical questions, because I know if I spend my money and volunteer my time with my club, no one can really stop me. Just wondering what the general feeling of racers is on this issue.
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Calkins on October 16, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Having never made a pass myself, in my opinion, it's all about the experience.  No records needed.

BUT!  I believe that you will soon get the itch to once again fight for a record.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: RichFox on October 16, 2018, 02:50:48 PM
If only those with serious possibility of running record ran.  The SCTA would go broke. And nobody would be able to run.
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on October 16, 2018, 03:04:49 PM
Here's  my personal example:  A few years back I wanted to make some runs on my Icebreaker - the nitrous bike.  I wasn't going to spray and knew I'd be lucky to get within 20% of the record speed.  I made runs - later in the day, and later in the week, when the lines weren't long.  I'd get to the line and tell Jim that I wanted to make a easy run on the long course - certainly over the 175, for sure -- he'd say "Go ahead and have fun.  You've done enough work for the day" and so on.  After all -- we volunteers are racers, too (for the most part), and we enjoy going down the course, too.

Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Eddieschopshop on October 16, 2018, 03:30:35 PM
If only those with serious possibility of running record ran.  The SCTA would go broke. And nobody would be able to run.

This is true. And I will add to the that by saying that "most" participants are not competitive for records either.  90 percent of the records are set by 10 percent of the people.  Just please don't have me sitting in my car behind a van that I think has one bike in it and then pull out 4!   
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on October 16, 2018, 03:51:44 PM
Ahh, Philosophy . . . the academic's bench-racing.

In my case, it's not about me - it's about the car.

The only reason I had a record in my name is because the fellow I wanted to have drive it couldn't attend the event.

For me, it's about building the vehicle to take on the record.



Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: mtiberio on October 16, 2018, 04:33:31 PM
If only those with serious possibility of running record ran.  The SCTA would go broke. And nobody would be able to run.

This is true. And I will add to the that by saying that "most" participants are not competitive for records either.  90 percent of the records are set by 10 percent of the people.  Just please don't have me sitting in my car behind a van that I think has one bike in it and then pull out 4!  

That's OK, if its Noonan, at least one bike will be a push vehicle.
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: SPARKY on October 16, 2018, 11:34:43 PM
NOT only YES but hockey sticks yes   Rich Fox is spot on
Choppie I am not with you on this----those bikes  paid the same fee as you and you had to move up 3  less times, and you wait  will be way less than if they were cars you had to wait to run
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Eddieschopshop on October 17, 2018, 11:32:28 AM
NOT only YES but hockey sticks yes   Rich Fox is spot on
Choppie I am not with you on this----those bikes  paid the same fee as you and you had to move up 3  less times, and you wait  will be way less than if they were cars you had to wait to run


I agree I have no problem with waiting.  However I don't want to suit up in teh car 30 minutes sooner than necessary sitting in the heat,  because  there are many more in line than I thought.  One of the reasons the wait is long is because people aren't ready when they should be and I will not be that guy.  Everyone wants to complain about waiting but I can gaurantee that most are part of the problem not the solution.  At one point at the World Finals,  I literally could not find a participant ready to run even thought there were over 10 deep in line..
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Eddieschopshop on October 17, 2018, 11:34:12 AM
I got to make the 300 line this year!  One of my personal lsr goals,
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: SPARKY on October 17, 2018, 05:06:44 PM
 :cheers:  One of my goals with the new car haven't gotten there yet
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: jl222 on October 17, 2018, 06:52:59 PM
I got to make the 300 line this year!  One of my personal lsr goals,


  I thought you just had to make a run over 300 to get in the 300 line.

  Do you have to hold a record over 300?

        JL222
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on October 17, 2018, 07:52:12 PM
8/11: 89 B BGS Eddies Chop Shop 352.573   :cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: jl222 on October 17, 2018, 09:13:50 PM
8/11: 89 B BGS Eddies Chop Shop 352.573   :cheers:

Mike

  Yeah, Eddie had a time over 400 mph and I thought that would qualify for the 300 line

             JL222

 
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: NathanStewart on October 18, 2018, 10:02:02 AM
I'll say that I have as much respect for those who run and aren't competitive as those who are competitive because at least they're out there running. 
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Eddieschopshop on October 18, 2018, 10:55:26 AM
I got to make the 300 line this year!  One of my personal lsr goals,


  I thought you just had to make a run over 300 to get in the 300 line.

  Do you have to hold a record over 300?

        JL222

Yes just a run,  but then fill out parperwork to get "approved"  Its all very official and stuff
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: SPARKY on October 18, 2018, 11:36:10 AM
"I'll say that I have as much respect for those who run and aren't competitive as those who are competitive because at least they're out there running. " Well said Mike---- Absolutely
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 19, 2018, 10:34:59 AM
The bike and me have almost no chance to set records anymore.  Both of us are slow and obsolete.  The class I race in is FIM.  It is expensive and the paperwork and medical exams are a pain in the butt.  The problem is, we need participants to subsidize the cost of FIM participation and this is needed for a world record event.  There are not a lot of FIM riders.  So, running in FIM, with no real chance of a record is my way of contributing to the sport.
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Ian Northeast on October 21, 2018, 06:00:26 AM
I came into motorsport quite late in life, but as with all things in life there is always someone out there with more, be it money, talent or whatever. As a result I have never attempted to be competitive in any of my endeavours. All I have looked for is the maximum enjoyment for the effort I have put in.
I am not a successful racer in fact I get better value for money on track than others, I'm out there longer!
However my one enduring dream was to race my car at Bonneville. If I had not been able to run because I couldn't afford to be competitive then I would have missed out on one of the best experiences of my life.
Competing at Bonneville is an honour and priviledge and the fact that they just let anyone turn up and give it a go is what makes it so. To build a car and then find out how fast I could make it go, was all I ever wanted. I could have gone faster if I just bought a modern really fast car. However I got to 148mph in a car that is older than me, with it's original chassis, body and engine.
The challenge always was the engineering never the record breaking.
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: DRW on November 05, 2018, 10:15:03 PM
I agree, I look at Bonneville as a Privilege, For me to be able to run there, Where The Breedloves ,Vescos & Thompsons once ran Just Blows My mind , I happen to have a Bike that can do maybe 160s in a 207mph record class, Am I gonna pass because my bike cant get close to that record, No Way, Im gonna run as fast as I possibly can, But im also gonna be respectful of what I do and How I go about it,Im gonna be ready when going thru tech,Im gonna be suited and buttoned up when the flag man waves that green flag, And Im gonna turn off and have the lane ready for the next guy ASAP, And Im gonna go to that Booth and get my slip and walk away with pride, Even though I feel like jumping up in the air and screaming how Dodge happy I am to have just pulled off a run on that same exact salt as The Legends !
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: QikNip on January 12, 2019, 12:18:15 PM
I grew up reading of Bonneville and of its more notable competitors, so like most here, being on the salt was a bucket list item for me. The place is simply awe inspiring and assuming others feel as I do in the regard, running for a record, running period, or just being there is special. To that point I want to relate a story … Last year the team who'd been in line in front of us pulled up to get their time slip and the team erupted into a cheer that could only signify a record. When I spoke to them, they reported that they'd broken 100 (on a ~130) record. They were simply overjoyed to have run and to have finally hit the century mark. So I say all are equally welcome and deserving of respect.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Speed Limit 1000 on January 12, 2019, 07:30:09 PM
Nathan :cheers:
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: MAYOMAN on January 13, 2019, 08:01:50 AM
When I was a high school kid in a hot rod club (Igniters Auto Club of Chicago) we always asked “How fast will it go?” Being in Illinois, we would try to find out on the country roads. The speed limit in Illinois then was “reasonable and proper”. We sometimes found out how dangerous “reasonable and proper” could be on country roads. We lost a few friends coming home from the Wisconsin  (18 years drinking age) beer bars on those 2-lane country roads.
We read about those California hot rodders who found out “how fast will it go?” on the dry lakes. Later, we read about the hot rodders out west learning “how fast will it go?” at the Bonneville Salt Flats. That is the spirit behind the Bonneville Nationals, SCTA, USFRA, and its competitors. First, “How fast will it go?”, then can it go faster? If it is only about records there would be shorter lines. Every speed enthusiast should be welcome in those long lines waiting to find out “How fast will it go?”
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 13, 2019, 08:16:23 AM
I've had this on the front fenders of my pickups for years:

"Didn't you ever want to open 'er up wide open and see what she'll do?"

I show it to folks who ask why we do this stuff.
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Stainless1 on January 13, 2019, 08:32:13 AM
Ahh, Philosophy . . . the academic's bench-racing.

In my case, it's not about me - it's about the car.

The only reason I had a record in my name is because the fellow I wanted to have drive it couldn't attend the event.

For me, it's about building the vehicle to take on the record.

I raced at Bonneville for 22 years... before I made my first pass... getting there, being part of it is a very cool deal.  It is on a lot of gearhead's bucket list to just attend... we are the folks that are doing it and keeping it going.  
It is human nature to want to win... but it is also human nature to want to be part of something bigger... every runner cannot win the Boston Marathon... but they all try and talk about doing it...
Racing Bonneville is like that... we all want to win, or at least try, even if we know it will only be our personal best... it tests you and your machine... getting the best from both  :wink:
 
The USFRA has made it possible for anyone with a car or bike to make a pass via the 130 MPH Club... I encourage all to try that... there are no records, just gaining entry to the Club... and your chance to run on the world famous Bonneville Salt Flats on the cheap.  
It is a gateway to the affliction....  :cheers:

 
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: PorkPie on January 13, 2019, 01:17:17 PM
Stainless,

it was 30 years for me, when you guys from the Bockscar Team gave me the opportunity to race a car.....and if you have the luck as I had....you could go home with a record...

Your try was, to get me into the record book and into the 200 Club.....my first record was 199,665 mph....(the exclusive 199,5 + Club)....but no Red Hat.....

we done this a couple weeks later.....

but I still like my 199 record more....as this record was my FIRST record....what a day in my life....

Thanks again to the Bockscar Team to get me this chance.... :-D


Ahh, Philosophy . . . the academic's bench-racing.

In my case, it's not about me - it's about the car.

The only reason I had a record in my name is because the fellow I wanted to have drive it couldn't attend the event.

For me, it's about building the vehicle to take on the record.

I raced at Bonneville for 22 years... before I made my first pass... getting there, being part of it is a very cool deal.  It is on a lot of gearhead's bucket list to just attend... we are the folks that are doing it and keeping it going.  
It is human nature to want to win... but it is also human nature to want to be part of something bigger... every runner cannot win the Boston Marathon... but they all try and talk about doing it...
Racing Bonneville is like that... we all want to win, or at least try, even if we know it will only be our personal best... it tests you and your machine... getting the best from both  :wink:
 
The USFRA has made it possible for anyone with a car or bike to make a pass via the 130 MPH Club... I encourage all to try that... there are no records, just gaining entry to the Club... and your chance to run on the world famous Bonneville Salt Flats on the cheap.  
It is a gateway to the affliction....  :cheers:

 
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Speed Limit 1000 on January 13, 2019, 07:02:48 PM
Brother Thomas,
I remember from your rookie run to your record run how fast you progressed and how hard you worked to get to the next license. I am sure that the newcomers would enjoy the story of your journey.         
Be happy safe and fast. :cheers:

Johnboy  
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Lemming Motors on January 14, 2019, 06:49:52 AM
Brother Thomas,
I remember from your rookie run to your record run how fast you progressed and how hard you worked to get to the next license.

I for one would love to read that story - Rookie to Record; A Newbies Twisted Tail.

When you sell the rights; who will you cast as you in the film version?

Lemming John
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 14, 2019, 06:56:42 AM
Yeah, but with Pork Pie it's the backstory that adds to the legend.  We need to make sure we include his younger days, too. :cheers:
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Stainless1 on January 14, 2019, 09:06:52 AM
Well kids if you want to read the printed version, check Fast Facts magazine... I think that comes from your backyard John... Pork Pie did an article about his quest for them.

I know it does not include the  number times I asked him if he was done and went as fast as he wanted to...  :-o
That came when I was trying to convince Pork Pie that revving the motor to just short of the limiter was necessary and he didn't need to worry about the motor's survival...
if he wanted to set a record.    :cheers:
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: mc2032 on January 14, 2019, 10:29:42 AM
Is there a Pork Pie's version of English to everyone else's version of English translation out there?  Just want to get one before I try to read Thomas's description of the quest for 200 (assuming he posts it here).  Just saying.... 
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 14, 2019, 10:55:31 AM
Well, to tell the truth, I'd suggest hanging out with PP for 10 or fifteen years as a good way to let him learn your lingo as well as the other way around.  It's worked for us. :roll:
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: PorkPie on January 14, 2019, 12:11:23 PM
Brother JohnBoy is right...

it was a journey....it was a fantastic one....going with the team through all up and downs to pick finally the record and at last the Red Hat....

and it was a great team work......

Stainless is right....in the Speed Records Club magazine Fast Facts....there were three articles I wrote about this journey.....part one (first part of the 199,665 mph record) was in a issue of the FF,
part two (second part of the 199,665 mph record) and part three (final record with Red Hat) together in the following issue of the FF....

on the Speed Record Club web page is a pdf file of the FF which got part two and three in, it is a free download......

and maybe someone like to become a member of the Speed Record Club....on this web page you can get your membership....the club is shipping the magazine worldwide.....


...and finally after you have read the articles....you maybe understand the Philosophy of making a run.......ask your soul what you need....
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Lemming Motors on January 15, 2019, 03:23:39 AM
 :cheers:

Found the Speed Record Club and edition 87 of Fast Facts is there. At work so I cant read the articles just now.  :-D

John
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Malcolm UK on January 15, 2019, 04:05:39 AM
Fast FACTS (the quarterly newsletter of the Speed Record Club) has welcomed many articles from Pork Pie illustrated from his views from behind the camera lens. The Editor has developed a method of ensuring that everyone can enjoy the articles by translating the German/American/English of the author into a fully understandable language for racers. Printed copies of this centuries back issues are available (the first 50 issues are on five CDs) - backissues@speedrecordclub.com

Should you want to know about making speed runs in a range of cars (including the UK record holding jet car) then Fast FACTS will have many of the answers. Last month it was Ian Northeast with his Jensen on the Bonneville salt.

Issue 112 is in preparation as I write these words. The current Editor has created forty issues. Her name - Jane Pittwood.   
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: PorkPie on January 19, 2019, 03:32:36 AM
Malcolm,

if everything works out, there will be more articles in the future for the FF.... 8-)

and a big thank you to Jane for all her support over all this years...Jane and I became a great team :-D
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on January 26, 2019, 09:09:27 AM
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,17559.0.html
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: PorkPie on February 07, 2019, 11:35:02 AM
John,

you got time to read my articles.....

What you think now as a maybe Rookie.....you are looking for to sit in your lakester going down the rookie course.... :-D

Wish you all the best with your home build lakester.

PP

:cheers:

Found the Speed Record Club and edition 87 of Fast Facts is there. At work so I cant read the articles just now.  :-D

John
Title: Re: Philosophy of making a run
Post by: Lemming Motors on February 11, 2019, 07:29:25 AM
Thanks PP.

Its going to be a long journey; with all the help and advise on the forum it has been a positive one so far. I am looking forward to SW2019 and being at Bonneville again and adding to my knowledge. Its a long Rookie road, thats for sure.

John