Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => World of Speed-specific stuff => Topic started by: augidog on July 14, 2018, 02:02:25 AM
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We're approved and registered to run our "tri-brid" Motorized Bicycle on the 130 Club track.
Human powered bicycle
Bafang 1000W electric motor, bottom-bracket drive
Tanaka 47R 2-stroke engine, single-speed belt-drive
Our rider can pedal along with the electric drive up to about 25mph, at which point we throttle up the high geared single speed gas drive.
The electric will help the gas up to about 35mph, then it's all about whatever the 47R can do on it's own.
Assembly 95% complete, testing begins next week.
We have high hopes for our top speed, but we're wondering what happens if we discover that we need a second mile to achieve it?
Does anyone know if a team can pay the $100 and upgrade to the 150 Club course before or at the event? Our number plates are finished, so if we could upgrade, could we keep our number?
Thanks in advance for any info you care to share.
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Here is a thought. Ask the organizer, USFRA.
DW
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Earlier in the year, Ellen at USFRA suggested this forum as a good place to talk about stuff like this. Probably as a way to help support the forum. Myself, I like forums, so...ok, let's do that.
I think she was under the impression that there were friendly helpful people here.
Sure, I can call Ellen and ask. When I do, I can tell her that recommending this place was a waste of breath, too.
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Augidog, are you saying that was bad advice? :?
Wayno
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I'm approved and registered, i already said, so obviously I know I can call Ellen. Getting an anecdotal answer here, from someone who knows, would have been a pretty fun way to learn what I was after. Since it's a forum, and forums have their own pace, I was willing to wait for the chance to talk with folks in similar situations...maybe I actually chose this method for that reason.
Here's a thought. Don't be condescending to new forum members. Another thought. Don't bother carving out space for "World of Speed-specific stuff" if you're just going to steer people back to USFRA.
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On a forum, you can get lots of answers to your questions. Some may be right, some may not. Showing up and being not able to compete has happened to racers in the past. Maybe they got bad advice from the forum. Let's have a vote on that.
Oh, and by the way, I believe you can compete in the 150 Club after you install a full roll cage. Get welding.
Stan Back
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On a forum, you can get lots of answers to your questions. Some may be right, some may not. Showing up and being not able to compete has happened to racers in the past. Maybe they got bad advice from the forum. Let's have a vote on that.
Oh, and by the way, I believe you can compete in the 150 Club after you install a full roll cage. Get welding.
Stan Back
thanks for the reply. we're running a low power low speed bike. 4hp 50cc single-speed, and our target is to break 60mph. our rider is compliant with motorcycle safety rules, and the bike is very well built. we are concerned we may need the first mile to reach top end, and then we can hold it for the second mile, and that's why I asked if anyone has ever upgraded by paying the $100 difference in fees.
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From USFRA's Dan Wright, 130 Club timing explained:
"As I understand it, there is a speed trap (usually 132' long) at the end of the mile. Your speed is calculated by the time it takes to pass thru that 132' trap.
If they tried to use the whole mile, you would get an "Average speed" over the distance, not a "Top Speed" measurement.
So the club always uses a "Trap arrangement" where at the end of the runup area, you trip a light and then another 132' later you trip the exit light.Time spent between the lights is converted to a speed number."
So it looks like the perfect setup for our little project.
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You might start by changing your title to "Motorized Bike on 130 Club Course" we have seen lots of vech. on the 130 start line
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You might start by changing your title to "Motorized Bike on 130 Club Course" we have seen lots of vech. on the 130 start line
as a long time forum user, I have to agree I should use a more specific subject, and I appreciate the feedback. editing now...
PS: love the Helen Keller quote.
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We're approved and registered to run our "tri-brid" Motorized Bicycle on the 130 Club track.
We have high hopes for our top speed, but we're wondering what happens if we discover that we need a second mile to achieve it?
Does anyone know if a team can pay the $100 and upgrade to the 150 Club course before or at the event? Our number plates are finished, so if we could upgrade, could we keep our number?
Thanks in advance for any info you care to share.
Sorry I cannot help you on the Upgrade question to the 150 club course.
I hope you have downloaded the Motorcycle tech page from the USFRA's 130 club to make sure you have the right tires etc and have no problems in Tech.
IMO once you start testing I think you will find that one mile is more than you need to get to top speed if your gearing etc, is perfect. Let us know how it goes. Any pictures of the bike you could post?
Good luck with your project.
Tom G.
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This two wheel is using electric and a gas power. There is no class for it so it is a time only vehicle. Should be interesting to see it.Good luck.
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Our wheels are built by Jim "The Wheelmaster" Burkman in Auburn WA...Alex Rims downhiller rims, Sturmey Archer drum-brake hubs, 10G NOS "Hap Jones" motorcycle spokes, Continental KKS 10 moped tires.
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More, and a pic from 2018, when we used a simple bicycle with a 32cc, and attained 1mph per cc.
If it's ok to post a spam-free link, here's the thread: http://motor-assisted-bicycling.1062526.n5.nabble.com/Sabrina2-2018-Bonneville-Salt-Flats-Racing-Project-td5710782.html
We represented rather well in 2018, and breezed thru Tech. This version, same frame better wheels, is TONS safer, and we expect no problems.
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Bonneville has always been the place to find weird $hit, I'd say you & USFRA are keeping that alive!
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Bonneville has always been the place to find weird $hit, I'd say you & USFRA are keeping that alive!
yup! we know we can build and or buy any number of different vehicles, and have us some fun, but we purposely choose the limitations of " what is a motorized bicycle?"
And...we are early-motorcycle enthusiasts, the George A Wyman Memorial Project is our honorary sponsor. The earliest 200cc 2hp single-speed belt-drive "motor bicycles" topped out at about 30mph, and you had to help up hills by pedaling. My 32, which is what the bike runs in real life, perfectly captures that experience. We love this stuff.
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I don't think the 130 Club has classes – outside of being the 130 Club.
You need to check tire requirements with the governing body. They may be able to put a "speed limit" on you dependent on the tires you are using if you can't upgrade them to their preferences. I understand they're a good group and will work with you and find a way for you to run.
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I don't think the 130 Club has classes – outside of being the 130 Club.
You need to check tire requirements with the governing body. They may be able to put a "speed limit" on you dependent on the tires you are using if you can't upgrade them to their preferences. I understand they're a good group and will work with you and find a way for you to run.
yeah, in 2008 they said anything over 60 on a "bicycle" they'd want to see tire ratings. This is the best option we could find to fit a 26" bicycle rim...the tire is actually a 22-2 moped. Tech is fully aware of our details, and so far we are approved. I think 60mph in the mile is about the best we can expect out of our 47cc engine.
For a long time, we've tried like heck to interest people in agreeing on an informal class for the fun of it...50cc & 35cc Motorized Bicycle "Milers" but so far no takers.
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Sorry I cannot help you on the Upgrade question to the 150 club course.
I hope you have downloaded the Motorcycle tech page from the USFRA's 130 club to make sure you have the right tires etc and have no problems in Tech.
IMO once you start testing I think you will find that one mile is more than you need to get to top speed if your gearing etc, is perfect. Let us know how it goes. Any pictures of the bike you could post?
Good luck with your project.
Tom G.
thanks, Tom. on paper, the engine specs and our choice of gearing puts us there...and now there's only one thing left to do, which is hit The Salt and see if we're right.
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:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Is the rider's position so un-aero on purpose?
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Is the rider's position so un-aero on purpose?
nope, but we're working with what we have to work with, which is my everyday road bike. It's very difficult to pedal and tuck with full leathers, so it is what it is...our affordable chance to have some fun. We do have a ZZipper fairing, I am redesigning the bracing for higher speed. See the stock photo below.
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Someone thoughtful PM'd me and asked about the integrity of our battery box mounting. There is 6061 aluminium bar stock inside, and ten 50lb zip ties. It's pretty doggone sturdy when you see it in real life.
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Maybe you should change the bars so you can do a "Rollie Free"! 8-)
Sid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollie_Free
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Sid, if
It's very difficult to pedal and tuck with full leathers,
emulating Rollie Free would make pedaling even harder. :cheers:
Mike
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Maybe you should change the bars so you can do a "Rollie Free"! 8-)
Sid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollie_Free
OMG I know! Early on we discussed some rear pegs, but voted against them...it could be pretty tricky (and risky) trying to relocate your feet to the pedals, which may or may not be slowly rotating in the wind.
I see that Mike gets it, we replied at the same time :cheers:
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But, but, but . . . what if you could PROVE that your skin is as thick as your leathers. You could be air conditioned all the way! Best of luck with an innovative entry.
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But, but, but . . . what if you could PROVE that your skin is as thick as your leathers. You could be air conditioned all the way! Best of luck with an innovative entry.
why stop there? what if we bring an x-ray proving our riders skull is as thick as a helmet? weight is a serious issue with these low power levels. joking aside, though, I have to admit this contraption is ridiculously heavy. it looks like a bicycle, but rides like a light motorcycle.
I appreciate the encouraging words more than you might know... motorized bicycles have kind of a bad collective image, and only a very few of us care about that.
I want to say that in 2008 the two things I remember most is the respect given despite the "smallness" of our entry...and the thrill of those words "Augie, the course is yours." Our rider Jimmy Brackett is a good friend of mine, and this is really about giving him that same experience. That, and I'd sure like to be able to say "I built that 60mph beast!"
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Our Tanaka 47R factory-modified racing engine & pipe. Originally produced for power karts.
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They have those reclining bike thingies :-o with pedals out the front, there's nothing that says you can't stick em out the back! The power stroke on the pedal would have a weight advantage.
Sid.
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They have those reclining bike thingies :-o with pedals out the front, there's nothing that says you can't stick em out the back! The power stroke on the pedal would have a weight advantage.
Sid.
Recumbent bikes are perfect candidates for lsr. The possibilities, when building a lsr motorized bicycle from the ground up, are endless. Our challenge is/was working with the bike I already have. It's way easy to build a bike around an engine compared to making an engine fit an existing bike. For me, that's always been the fun part.
There's going to be a "paced bicycle" entry at WOS this year. Denise Korenek (Mueller), who holds the women's record of 147mph, is going after the men's record of 167mph. Of interest is that those very-high-geared but simple bicycles are built using front dragster wheels and tires.
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How is there even a women's record? There is no gender separation in LSR!
Sid.
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Augidog:
Interesting conversation. At one point, I was heavily involved in bicycle racing (mostly track) and there were two arguments that, to my satisfaction, have not been resolved. One is tire size. Sprinters say 700c tires are best for top speed while 650c is better for acceleration at least to 30 mph. Then, there are LSR bicycles that use even smaller diameter wheels. Granted, LSR bikes are motor paced but they accelerate slowly and if sprinters are correct, one would think larger wheels/tires would be used. The reason could be as simple as available tires suitable for high speed on a bicycle. All I know is I was consistently faster in a pursuit event on 650c than I was on 700c.
The second unresolved issue is crank arm length but that is not for this website.
John
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Long stroke versus short stroke crank, torque or HP.
I'm totally at the opposite end of the spectrum with my AA/BFS but I find all this an interesting subject.
Sid.
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How is there even a women's record? There is no gender separation in LSR!
Sid.
it's an athletic endeavor, not a Motorsport.
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Augidog:
Interesting conversation. At one point, I was heavily involved in bicycle racing (mostly track) and there were two arguments that, to my satisfaction, have not been resolved. One is tire size. Sprinters say 700c tires are best for top speed while 650c is better for acceleration at least to 30 mph. Then, there are LSR bicycles that use even smaller diameter wheels. Granted, LSR bikes are motor paced but they accelerate slowly and if sprinters are correct, one would think larger wheels/tires would be used. The reason could be as simple as available tires suitable for high speed on a bicycle. All I know is I was consistently faster in a pursuit event on 650c than I was on 700c.
The second unresolved issue is crank arm length but that is not for this website.
John
ultimately, cranks, sprockets, and wheels are levers, and the final ratio, from the pedal to the road, is the only one that matters, at least on paper. In real life, rolling resistance is a factor. I am not very knowledgeable about wheel & tire sizes, widths, and resistance...I only know I love a nice 26" bicycle, I especially love mine after I extended the stays.
The only reason I found out that paced bicycles use dragster wheels is because I was like "wait a minute, how come THEY get to go so fast and I'm limited to 60mph?"
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Long stroke versus short stroke crank, torque or HP.
I'm totally at the opposite end of the spectrum with my AA/BFS but I find all this an interesting subject.
Sid.
my father raced the family Pontiac station wagon at Alton (Illinois) Dragway in the 1960's and figure-8 at Riverside Park Agawam MA in the '70's...I got the bug, but I don't have the budget. This entire adventure, 3 guys, a bike built mostly with stuff we already owned, fees, accommodations, gas, food...a bit over a grand each, total. Good luck even driving a bonafide LSR vehicle onto the trailer for that much, eh? I bet you stopped adding up receipts a long time ago.
If I ever hit the lottery, I absolutely know what I'm going to waste it all on :-D
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The International Human Powered Vehicle Association record --- that's not motor-paced, just a guy pedaling the damned thing, stands at 85.71 mph.
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The International Human Powered Vehicle Association record --- that's not motor-paced, just a guy pedaling the damned thing, stands at 85.71 mph.
no kidding! I'm not really a huge bicycling nut, but am impressed by some of these accomplishments.
My build is really about how much can I squeeze out of a single-speed 50cc?
The reason we are running, besides the fun and challenge, is to raise awareness for our Honorary Sponsor, The George A Wyman Memorial Project.
George was the first person to cross the Continent on a motorized vehicle of any kind, a 200cc 1.25hp belt-drive "Motor Bicycle," in 1903. The non-profit Project is marking his route by placing sponsored bronze plaques and metal road signs wherever possible.
Our plaque is in Ogden UT, at The Union Grill, and we will be celebrating it's placement after World of Speed.
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That's really neat!
I wonder how available gas was in Utah in 1903 – he had to have oil shipped in.
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That's really neat!
I wonder how available gas was in Utah in 1903 – he had to have oil shipped in.
he shipped supplies and parts ahead during the entire trip. He may mention availability of fuel in his journal. He wrote it in 5 installments for "The Motorcycle Magazine." Our non-profit forum hosts a copy here, along with digitized copies of the original magazines: http://motor-assisted-bicycling.1062526.n5.nabble.com/George-A-Wyman-1st-Across-America-f5710342.html
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Long stroke versus short stroke crank, torque or HP.
I'm totally at the opposite end of the spectrum with my AA/BFS but I find all this an interesting subject.
Sid.
Sid, think about grinding wheel diameters and what you need to do when the wheel gets smaller.
John
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Long stroke versus short stroke crank, torque or HP.
I'm totally at the opposite end of the spectrum with my AA/BFS but I find all this an interesting subject.
Sid.
Sid, think about grinding wheel diameters and what you need to do when the wheel gets smaller.
John
also, "crank" means different things to bicycles and engines.
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The International Human Powered Vehicle Association record --- that's not motor-paced, just a guy pedaling the damned thing, stands at 85.71 mph.
89.59 mph :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
http://www.aerovelo.com/
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"ultimately, cranks, sprockets, and wheels are levers, and the final ratio, from the pedal to the road, is the only one that matters, at least on paper. In real life, rolling resistance is a factor. I am not very knowledgeable about wheel & tire sizes, widths, and resistance...I only know I love a nice 26" bicycle, I especially love mine after I extended the stays."
Augidog, when a human becomes the engine, I think other variables come into play. Just like the long rod, short rod argument, bicycle racers argue over long crank vs short crank. So, what do I think causes the argument? Probably confusion between spindle speed vs pedal speed. Even the best trained athlete has a sweet spot where they can perform at their best. In cycling, it is the maximum rpm one can maintain at the maximum watts produced for any given distance. So, rpm (cadence) is watched carefully. But what is happening out at the pedal? Using the grinding wheel example, a 20" wheel will travel farther and faster circumferentially than a 10" wheel. This is why grinding machine operators have to increase spindle rpm to maintain the same stock removal rate as the wheel wears. Now, if a longer crank forces the pedal to travel faster per revolution than a short one, does the rider have to generate more power to do it? Will this increase demand on the riders cardio? I maintain that it does, it almost has to.
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"ultimately, cranks, sprockets, and wheels are levers, and the final ratio, from the pedal to the road, is the only one that matters, at least on paper. In real life, rolling resistance is a factor. I am not very knowledgeable about wheel & tire sizes, widths, and resistance...I only know I love a nice 26" bicycle, I especially love mine after I extended the stays."
Augidog, when a human becomes the engine, I think other variables come into play. Just like the long rod, short rod argument, bicycle racers argue over long crank vs short crank. So, what do I think causes the argument? Probably confusion between spindle speed vs pedal speed. Even the best trained athlete has a sweet spot where they can perform at their best. In cycling, it is the maximum rpm one can maintain at the maximum watts produced for any given distance. So, rpm (cadence) is watched carefully. But what is happening out at the pedal? Using the grinding wheel example, a 20" wheel will travel farther and faster circumferentially than a 10" wheel. This is why grinding machine operators have to increase spindle rpm to maintain the same stock removal rate as the wheel wears. Now, if a longer crank forces the pedal to travel faster per revolution than a short one, does the rider have to generate more power to do it? Will this increase demand on the riders cardio? I maintain that it does, it almost has to.
you'll get no argument from me about that. My simple breakdown of the mechanical aspects was about numbers on paper. Of course the input abilities of the "engine" is the first variable in real life, and at the other end it's where the rubber meets the road. However, how you break down the ratio in between the two is just basic physics, and something everyone here can relate to.
And air...that matters too...notice the motor-paced cyclists are comfortably upright in their artificial environment.
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"This is However, how you break down the ratio in between the two is just basic physics, and something everyone here can relate to."
Augidog, I wish this were true. I don't think I convinced anyone in the bicycle community but myself.
John
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The International Human Powered Vehicle Association record --- that's not motor-paced, just a guy pedaling the damned thing, stands at 85.71 mph.
89.59 mph :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
http://www.aerovelo.com/
velos rock! Of course, you folks here already know why streamliners are a different class. I know a fellow who built a body around his tadpole trike using corrugated cardboard and zip ties. His commute is pretty easy. Another cool bicycle thing is gravity biking.
http://gravitybike.com.au/blog/category/builds/
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"This is However, how you break down the ratio in between the two is just basic physics, and something everyone here can relate to."
Augidog, I wish this were true. I don't think I convinced anyone in the bicycle community but myself.
John
ah...but every bicyclist has personal preference when it comes to standards styles brands... haven't you met at least a few avid cyclists who can make all the obvious correct choices but don't have a clue what's happening behind the curtain? They choose crank length but don't realize they're doing math, or that they're being mechanics. I can buy headsets or bottom brackets from professional shops by brand or style, but if I ask for something by thread size they don't usually know what I mean.
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Now, if a longer crank forces the pedal to travel faster per revolution than a short one, does the rider have to generate more power to do it? Will this increase demand on the riders cardio? I maintain that it does, it almost has to.
Same gear, same road speed, a longer crank will go a longer distance but with a lesser force, power required the same. Longer crank arms, however, require more bend in the knees and hips at the top of the stroke, which can mess you up. Generally, longer legs want longer cranks.
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Early human powered vehicle.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Now, if a longer crank forces the pedal to travel faster per revolution than a short one, does the rider have to generate more power to do it? Will this increase demand on the riders cardio? I maintain that it does, it almost has to.
Same gear, same road speed, a longer crank will go a longer distance but with a lesser force, power required the same. Longer crank arms, however, require more bend in the knees and hips at the top of the stroke, which can mess you up. Generally, longer legs want longer cranks.
Kinematics of this would be an interesting discussion but my comments revolved around energy required to maintain a given mph. It wasn't hard to demonstrate greater energy was required to reach and maintain a given mph with longer cranks. In order to be fair, when shorter cranks were installed, the rider was lowered by the same amount. A Quarq power meter was used to record watt output in five increments of a complete spindle revolution. Averaged values strongly suggested that longer cranks demanded more energy per spindle revolution. Now, a single rider was used (me) for these tests so there may be differences found among other riders with different body types.
John
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Well, heck, I'm gonna have you all pedaling bicycles around if you don't watch it.
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If you ride it on the street, you should have to have lisc., just like a motorcycle, for you and the bike.
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If you ride it on the street, you should have to have lisc., just like a motorcycle, for you and the bike.
I've maintained a fairly complete set of laws on our forums for some time, SPARKY, and while there are common parameters, some states are easier or tougher than others.
In Oregon, a bicycle with a gas engine 35cc or smaller is a "Motorized Scooter" and no documentation is required. Thats me and this bike which is normally 32cc. From 35.01-50cc is a "Moped" and license insurance and registration is required. Over 50cc is a "Motorcycle" and no way.
Some states are still at 50cc Moped no documentation, your own state AZ has a really MB friendly set of laws, and a couple allow up to 150cc!...others are NO Gas Engines on Bicycles, period.
With all that said...Not surprisingly, even the police don't always know the law, and tons of illegal bikes are on the road everywhere.
But not mine, I build and ride legal, always, because I give a carp. My Tanaka 32cc makes more power than George Wyman's 1903 200cc "California" did, I'm good with that.
This is how the smaller legal engine fits. Notice I'm using the rear "deck" to accommodate the racing engine and pipe. After the races, back to normal.
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Kinematics of this would be an interesting discussion
Yes, it's sorta like rod length/stroke ratios.
In order to be fair, when shorter cranks were installed, the rider was lowered by the same amount.
This puzzles me. A shorter crank puts the foot higher at the bottom of the stroke, so leaves the knee more bent at the bottom of the stroke. Then you lower the seat. Whah?
A Quarq power meter was used to record watt output in five increments of a complete spindle revolution. Averaged values strongly suggested that longer cranks demanded more energy per spindle revolution. Now, a single rider was used (me) for these tests so there may be differences found among other riders with different body types.
Not to mention different expectations.
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Kinematics of this would be an interesting discussion
Yes, it's sorta like rod length/stroke ratios.
In order to be fair, when shorter cranks were installed, the rider was lowered by the same amount.
This puzzles me. A shorter crank puts the foot higher at the bottom of the stroke, so leaves the knee more bent at the bottom of the stroke. Then you lower the seat. Whah?
A Quarq power meter was used to record watt output in five increments of a complete spindle revolution. Averaged values strongly suggested that longer cranks demanded more energy per spindle revolution. Now, a single rider was used (me) for these tests so there may be differences found among other riders with different body types.
Not to mention different expectations.
Yes, I had to lower the seat when going from 175mm cranks to 165mm. Power begins to develop around 11 O'clock and pretty much finishes around 4 O'clock or so the Quarq power meter said. So, a 165mm crank would be lower at TDC. I was also trying to find how much eccentric muscles would contribute to overall power production for a full spindle revolution.
These tests were conducted to find my optimal position on the bike and what length crank was best for my event (2K Individual Pursuit). In turn, it shed some light on what was accepted as fact. In cycling, it is all about the watts and how long you can hold them.
John
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Some pics from 2008
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Augidog, I just looked at the last picture on page 1. If you are pedaling to add mph, we need to talk about your position on the bike.
John
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Augidog, I just looked at the last picture on page 1. If you are pedaling to add mph, we need to talk about your position on the bike.
John
Hi John, the pedaling is only to help the single-speed drive get up to speed, then it's into as good a tuck as possible on an upright bicycle. We are looking at universal windshields now, just enough to shield the body of our middle-age overweight rider. Our minimal goal is 1mph/cc, which should be easy enough, and we hope for a bit more, which might not be so easy.
Two things to keep in mind as you look at this project...one, we know this bike and rider position is far from optimal, after all we're working with what we have...two, we can't let ourselves care too much about that, or it will take all the fun out of it.
If ever I was able to purpose-build a bike for this Tanaka, it would be long, low, with a torque-converter drive, and no pedals needed...on the right chassis, with a little bitty rider, the 47R is an amazing engine that could easily hold it's own in the 50cc class.
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Making slow look good...
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"The 47R is an amazing engine that could easily hold it's own in the 50cc class."
"Au contrare" (sp).
The El Mirage record (1.3 miles) for 50cc is 108 MPH. Good luck on that one. No, don't tell me the extra .3 makes a big difference.
Their slowest 50cc record (P/PV) {Penis/Penetrating Virgin or some other motorcycle mystic class} is 39+ MPH. It ain't easy my friend.
Your only hope is to have someone running beside you tuning the carbonator.
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"The 47R is an amazing engine that could easily hold it's own in the 50cc class."
"Au contrare" (sp).
The El Mirage record (1.3 miles) for 50cc is 108 MPH. Good luck on that one. No, don't tell me the extra .3 makes a big difference.
Their slowest 50cc record (P/PV) {Penis/Penetrating Virgin or some other motorcycle mystic class} is 39+ MPH. It ain't easy my friend.
Your only hope is to have someone running beside you tuning the carbonator.
whoa...this is just good-natured bench racing, right? You wouldn't actually say that to someone running their old bike, would you?
I never said it would dominate, but this very 47R, without pipe, break-in, or good fuel, pulled this bike (and my 210 lbs) all day at 35-40mph...it wasn't geared near big as it could be, and as we already know this bike is a horrible LSR foundation. It's a centrifugal clutch, but it could be fairly easily adapted to a scooter CVT, in my opinion. And I know a guy put a lever on his mixture screw, cable-activated, he said it worked pretty well inside a small range. So...anyway...from now on I'll just stick to what we got going on this year. I sure didn't intend to stir up anything.
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"This is However, how you break down the ratio in between the two is just basic physics, and something everyone here can relate to."
Augidog, I wish this were true. I don't think I convinced anyone in the bicycle community but myself.
John
ah...but every bicyclist has personal preference when it comes to standards styles brands... haven't you met at least a few avid cyclists who can make all the obvious correct choices but don't have a clue what's happening behind the curtain? They choose crank length but don't realize they're doing math, or that they're being mechanics. I can buy headsets or bottom brackets from professional shops by brand or style, but if I ask for something by thread size they don't usually know what I mean.
I would say over 95% of the bicycle community fit in that category. That is why it is so easy for them to adopt anything that comes along claiming to be the truth. Now, you don't have to be a mechanic to understand what is going on. In fact, it may be better if you are not a mechanic. Mechanics will argue to the death over benefits of long or short rod and same goes for long vs short cranks. I am kind of a data driven guy and where possible, will follow good data no matter where it leads.
John
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"This is However, how you break down the ratio in between the two is just basic physics, and something everyone here can relate to."
Augidog, I wish this were true. I don't think I convinced anyone in the bicycle community but myself.
John
ah...but every bicyclist has personal preference when it comes to standards styles brands... haven't you met at least a few avid cyclists who can make all the obvious correct choices but don't have a clue what's happening behind the curtain? They choose crank length but don't realize they're doing math, or that they're being mechanics. I can buy headsets or bottom brackets from professional shops by brand or style, but if I ask for something by thread size they don't usually know what I mean.
I would say over 95% of the bicycle community fit in that category. That is why it is so easy for them to adopt anything that comes along claiming to be the truth. Now, you don't have to be a mechanic to understand what is going on. In fact, it may be better if you are not a mechanic. Mechanics will argue to the death over benefits of long or short rod and same goes for long vs short cranks. I am kind of a data driven guy and where possible, will follow good data no matter where it leads.
John
I get that, and once you know you can't unknow. If you think mechanics can get into it, try having a detailed discussion with a computer tech sometime. The way of the world, I guess. And btw I meant nothing derogatory about bicycle professionals, was merely making an observation.
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I would be interested in hearing from anyone experienced with high performance versions of these 50cc engines. Best I can find is the DeNardis 10+ hp 50cc water cooled, 2-cycle engine.
John
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I would be interested in hearing from anyone experienced with high performance versions of these 50cc engines. Best I can find is the DeNardis 10+ hp 50cc water cooled, 2-cycle engine.
John
you maybe already found this in a search "COBRA KING 50 SETS CLASS SPEED RECORD AT BONNEVILLE SALT FLATS"
We bought some VP Racing "C50" for the Tanaka. Haven't had a chance to test it yet, but the specs are a perfect match.
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I would be interested in hearing from anyone experienced with high performance versions of these 50cc engines. Best I can find is the DeNardis 10+ hp 50cc water cooled, 2-cycle engine.
John
An Aprilia 50cc was used in John and Eric's amazing 150 mph 50 cc streamliner.
http://www.geocities.ws/lucfoekema/Buddenbaum.html
https://bangshift.com/general-news/pint-sized-streamliner-coaxed-150-mph-miniscule-50cc-engine/
Sumner
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I would be interested in hearing from anyone experienced with high performance versions of these 50cc engines. Best I can find is the DeNardis 10+ hp 50cc water cooled, 2-cycle engine.
John
An Aprilia 50cc was used in John and Eric's amazing 150 mph 50 cc streamliner.
http://www.geocities.ws/lucfoekema/Buddenbaum.html
https://bangshift.com/general-news/pint-sized-streamliner-coaxed-150-mph-miniscule-50cc-engine/
Sumner
maybe it's only on my Android tablet, but the geocities link is redirecting like a mofo.
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I would be interested in hearing from anyone experienced with high performance versions of these 50cc engines. Best I can find is the DeNardis 10+ hp 50cc water cooled, 2-cycle engine.
John
An Aprilia 50cc was used in John and Eric's amazing 150 mph 50 cc streamliner.
http://www.geocities.ws/lucfoekema/Buddenbaum.html
https://bangshift.com/general-news/pint-sized-streamliner-coaxed-150-mph-miniscule-50cc-engine/
Sumner
Hey, Sum:
I did see that Aprilla and it's encouraging it will take turbocharging. Augidog got me thinking about all this (but not taking time or treasure away from the lakester) so I began with the engine. Seems like there are two or three good contenders for power.
Holy smokes, I just saw the Parilla IAME 50cc stage 3 water cooled engine. 17.5 HP to the rear wheel!
John
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I would be interested in hearing from anyone experienced with high performance versions of these 50cc engines. Best I can find is the DeNardis 10+ hp 50cc water cooled, 2-cycle engine.
John
An Aprilia 50cc was used in John and Eric's amazing 150 mph 50 cc streamliner.
http://www.geocities.ws/lucfoekema/Buddenbaum.html
https://bangshift.com/general-news/pint-sized-streamliner-coaxed-150-mph-miniscule-50cc-engine/
Sumner
Hey, Sum:
I did see that Aprilla and it's encouraging it will take turbocharging. Augidog got me thinking about all this (but not taking time or treasure away from the lakester) so I began with the engine. Seems like there are two or three good contenders for power.
Holy smokes, I just saw the Parilla IAME 50cc stage 3 water cooled engine. 17.5 HP to the rear wheel!
John
"more from less" is a whole 'nother world, and can be a lot of fun. I lived on this bike for 2 years, with a 40cc Tanaka "Pure Fire" (it has a real catalytic converter)...camped all over WA State, took the ferry to Alaska for a year, came back, rode Chuckanut Drive, and crossed the North Cascades. Prostate cancer put a stop to that, or I'd still be out there.
:cheers: happy Friday, all :cheers:
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Augidog, did you get it out on the salt in the 130 Club last week? How did it go?
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Augidog, did you get it out on the salt in the 130 Club last week? How did it go?
hello, pappy, thank you very much for your guidance and support in tech! the bike held a consistent 43mph peak, as expected with our power-to-weight, and we are VERY pleased with the outing.