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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: thefrenchowl on January 03, 2018, 12:56:52 PM



Title: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 03, 2018, 12:56:52 PM
Hi, and all the best for this just started New Year, I hope it will fulfill all your dreams...

Some of you might remember my previous forrays onto the Bonneville Salt Flats in 2011, 2013 and 2014, on my home made Harley-Davidson 1954 KHK, supercharged on methanol:

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,8744.0.html (http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,8744.0.html)

I was toying with updating that bike, but lack of money/sponsors made me think again and change direction. That bike is now retired...

But let's start at the beginning...

In 1976, I was lend a few pre war racing motorcycles photos of the French manufacturer Jonghi. Good occasion at the time to make an indepth article in our Vintage MC Club Magazine. I went to see other friends to collect info and details. At one of them, I saw this fully loaded racing timing chest stamped TT 2:

(https://i.imgur.com/S3Cnfhv.jpg)

The TT 2 stamp identified it as the remnants of a rather special bike... In early 1933, the factory owner, an Italian immigrant by the name of Guiseppe Remondini, tried to do a 24 hour World Record with an OHV race bike on the Montlhery Speed Bowl near Paris. They twice failed and he decided to dampen somewhat the engine output by grafting the top end of the sidevalve model on it while discarding the OHV parts.

The little sidevalve bike had a top speed of about 90mph in that guise and at the 3rd attempt, it all came good and the record was theirs at about 72mph over the 24 hours on a cold March day.

In the paddock before the attempt:

(https://i.imgur.com/1mWtgbq.jpg)

During the run, Louis Jeannin in the saddle, their star rider:

(https://i.imgur.com/DDATv0v.jpg)

Patrick



Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Glen on January 03, 2018, 01:01:29 PM
Interesting, thanks.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: sofadriver on January 03, 2018, 01:18:47 PM
Very cool!

Do you have the rest of it?


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 03, 2018, 01:48:50 PM
Quote
sofadriver: Do you have the rest of it?

 :-D

Jump from 1976 to May last year when I went with my street 350cc SV Jonghi TJ 4 at the Montlhery Speed Bowl for the Vintage Revival, one of the better meetings in Europe, sadly only every two years...

(https://i.imgur.com/3suKtKt.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/7Y5gaPn.jpg)

The owner of the collection where the TT 2 parts were died in 2000 and the collection is now a trust. I met its curator there and he told me to pay him a visit next time I came to France (... I still live in Great Britain!!!)

So, a Saturday last November I headed South and met him... He very kindly put the TT 2 parts in my hands and told me if there was a man to revive them, it was me. I was shocked, I dreamed of owning these parts for more than 40 years and here they were in my custody. No money changed hands, I had some old memorabilia bits he wanted, so a good piece of barter.

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: panic on January 03, 2018, 06:00:31 PM
Excellent, love it!


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Old Scrambler on January 03, 2018, 09:42:47 PM
Numerous discussions in the US about what ever happened to the reportedly 'dozens' of French motorcycle manufacturers from before WWII. This would be great......... :-)


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 04, 2018, 02:50:38 AM
Hi Old Scrambler,

Dozens... You mean Hundreds!!!

A friend has published 2 books (a 3rd one is due...) listing the 600 plus makers that were around Paris between the early dawn, 1871, and 1988...

Jonghi was one of them, located on the outskirts of Paris.

Not to mention all the rest scattered around France, some big, some small...

(http://www.la-boutique.com/_files/btq_imgzoom/31567.jpg)

The lady on the cover is Madame Jolivet on her racing Pecourt, about 250cc, on the 12th of October 1902... Photo Jules Beau, courtesy Gallica, the French National Library.

I'll post the link later...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 04, 2018, 03:31:07 AM
Gallica site, 77 pages of Motorcycles photographs from the early days till about 1928.

There's more at Gallica, but that's a quick search!!!

http://gallica.bnf.fr/services/engine/search/sru?operation=searchRetrieve&version=1.2&startRecord=0&maximumRecords=15&page=1&query=%28gallica%20all%20%22motocyclette%22%29%20and%20dc.type%20all%20%22image%22%20sortby%20dc.date%2Fsort.ascending (http://gallica.bnf.fr/services/engine/search/sru?operation=searchRetrieve&version=1.2&startRecord=0&maximumRecords=15&page=1&query=%28gallica%20all%20%22motocyclette%22%29%20and%20dc.type%20all%20%22image%22%20sortby%20dc.date%2Fsort.ascending)

Click on thumbnails to enlarge, then on left, button to download as JPG or PDF...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: TrickyDicky on January 04, 2018, 07:24:59 AM
I recently stumbled across many photographs by Jules Beau. It seems he took most of the land speed photos (in France, up to about 1910) that crop up on the internet.

Try https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Jules_Beau.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 04, 2018, 10:50:29 AM
Yes, TrickyDicky,

Jules Beau was a prolific photographer of anything to do with sport, bicycles, horses, athletism, boats, cars and motorbikes...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 04, 2018, 11:07:39 AM
Hi all,

When I arrived back in GB in November with the TT 2 parts, I thought it would take me about a year or two to either find a suitable donor bike or to persuade one of my friends to part with their own Jonghi...

My own Jonghi, shown above, just took me too long to get and refurbish and I did not fancy restarting the process again!!!

Well, as soon as November morphed into December, a suitable Jonghi appeared for sale on a french adverts site and I promply made arrangements to purchase it.

(https://i.imgur.com/7bnnpEm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/QLKO86F.jpg)

So I was off to France in a rented van between Christmas and New Year to collect it...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: sofadriver on January 04, 2018, 10:14:48 PM
Wow, what a find!

It's so complete I wonder if it's worth more unrestored?

But since I know you won't be able to resist - let the restoration begin!  :-D  :-D


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 05, 2018, 04:48:37 AM
Yes, Sofadriver,

It is very complete, but sadly, was stored for years near the sea so it's like pebble dashed with little rust holes from salt attacks.

That's only the 5th sidevalve Jonghi known to man, these things are rare (there are far more OHV Jonghi survivors...), so yes, it wasn't given away...

And yes also, it will be morphed into a reconstruction of the 1933 Record Bike...

A family shot just after the successful attempt in March 1933:

(https://i.imgur.com/RM5CgxP.jpg)

From left to right around the record breaker: Marcel Perrin, Louis Jeannin on the bike and Hector Andreino, they took turns of one hour stints except for the last three hours done by Jeannin on his own to bring home an ailing engine, plus the engineer, Guiseppe Remondini. Between Perrin and Jeannin, cigarette in mouth is another famous frenchman, Clement Garreau who became France's Norton importer after WWII, and in between Andreino and Remondini, Remondini's father, Pietro, who came from Italy to refloat the already troubled company. At the extreme right, the smartly dressed lady is Bianca Remondini, Guiseppe's wife...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: sofadriver on January 05, 2018, 10:58:41 AM
At the extreme right, the smartly dressed lady is Bianca Remondini, Guiseppe's wife...

Patrick
Didn't I just see Megan Markle wearing that hat?


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 05, 2018, 03:41:42 PM
Fashions come and go... and come back!!!!


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: fordboy628 on January 05, 2018, 04:52:23 PM
Patrick,

Way cool restoration!   And double way cool on the newest find/project.

I suspect your French friend is correct, this bit of history is now in the right hands.    Please keep us informed of the process.

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Yourchoiceoflibationboy


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 05, 2018, 05:21:06 PM
I will, Fordboy...

At the moment, TT 2 is sitting in my trophy cabinet, waiting for stuff to arrive and assemble themselves in a timely fashion...

(https://i.imgur.com/vXkbng0.jpg)

I did open my already restored sidevalve to compare the castings and cams, yes, TT 2 is pukka racing parts, different castings with reinforced bearing locations, with cams with about 100 degrees of overlap and 9mm lift, not shabby for 1931 engineering!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/vz8SRPP.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/WLi24mZ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/3GgNtot.jpg)

The racer was fitted with a Bosch racing magneto, type FF1 A L, found one for dirt cheap in Poland.
One of my mates at work, Marek, is Polish, he handled the purchase and should be back from holidays on Monday with it!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/xRQzELx.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: fordboy628 on January 06, 2018, 07:27:39 AM

I did open my already restored sidevalve to compare the castings and cams, yes, TT 2 is pukka racing parts, different castings with reinforced bearing locations, with cams with about 100 degrees of overlap and 9mm lift, not shabby for 1931 engineering!!!

Patrick


Hi Patrick,

You know, one of the falsehoods that is unwittingly perpetuated on the internet, and other places, is the idea that engine engineers of early 20th century (post WWI through the late 1950's) didn't know what they were doing.   This idea however, is far from the reality.   When you read the papers and books from these pioneers, it becomes obvious that they were hard working and very astute engineers and scientists, who advanced their projects using the scientific method.   And in many instances, it was these pioneers who invented the methods and technology that we use and take for granted today.   It is on the shoulders of these giants, and the ones who followed, that we now stand.

To be sure, these pioneers were handicapped by the metallurgy of their times, the infancy of production hot forging, the tediousness of hand calculation(s), and the lack of standardization, as well as other issues.   But then, as now, there is little that restrains persistence coupled with ambition.   And it is important to also note, that Postwar racing definitely benefited from the technological advancements of WWII.

Knowing what I know about the material specifications of the times, I'd say 100 degrees of overlap and 9mm lift would have been pretty cutting edge and quite racy for the 1930's.   Quite probably near to the limits of their valve springs . . . . . .

I'm sure you already are aware of this, but it is always worth repeating.  Re-manufacturing of the critical parts of these assemblies using "modern" materials, bearings, etc, can add life and reliability to these restoration projects.   Especially where no reliability may have existed before . . . . . .

 :cheers:
Mark


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 08, 2018, 12:10:58 PM
Yes Fordboy,

The OHV has double hair pin type valve springs well out in the air flow and also had coil springs on the push rods at the bottom of the cylinder...

But the sidevalve only have a single coil spring per valve, also enclosed, I'll check if I can fit a slightly stronger one there cause the cams are indeed hairy...

Stuff is also starting to drop at the front door...

Tubes for bits of fabrication today and

Last week, Saddle, a rubber backed fabric item by Dunlop, named Drilastic, on an Ideale licence, and a Speedway spool hub for the front wheel:

(https://i.imgur.com/1pSa5Gl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/lnosqjt.jpg)

I also put a nice sum on eBay for a sport carburettor, a one inch bore AMAC 15 MDY, to no avail, it went elsewhere...

(https://i.imgur.com/op4ICVW.jpg)

So long...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Rex Schimmer on January 08, 2018, 03:42:28 PM
Patrick,
I am always in awe of your kind of project. I love old motorcycles and to take one and bring it back to life and then race it is a true test of stubbornness!  Can't wait to see it finished!!

Rex


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 08, 2018, 04:26:15 PM
Thanks Rex...

Yes, I never choose the easy way!!!

The records I'm looking at, depending on category, are not too shabby for an 85 years old SV bike to beat, 250cc M-VF = 79.55mph, M-VG = 77.306mph, MPS-VF = 82.486mph and MPS-VG = 81.418mph

I've had a chat with the SCTA/BNI MC Tech Committee, it appears the balsa filler and sticky tape on the Webbs type forks put the bike in PS category...

Cheers, Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: wobblywalrus on January 08, 2018, 09:47:33 PM
An expert can make digital profiles of your cams, weigh the valve train components, and use computer calculations to tell you exactly what springs are needed - both for strength and resistance to harmonic irregularities.  Then, they can suggest a reasonable safety factor to use in the design.  Another fix is to use ceramic coatings on the ports and cylinder head to keep the springs cool.   

This work sounds expensive.  It isn't when the cost of hard to replace parts is factored in.  An additional plus is the information you get can be used for other things, like optimizing the cam timing or having custom springs made. 

A source for good quality mousetrap springs are those folks in the UK who supply parts for the racing Nortons and Matchlesses.  The matchbox G-80's I had used those springs. 


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 09, 2018, 07:46:42 AM
 :-D Wobblywalrus,

I'm running the side valve version, not the OHV, hence I'm stuck with using coil springs.

I'll check how far I can shim the OEM ones to improve seating pressure without going ""coil bind + 40 or 60 thou" at full opening...

I have a few coils springs from various Harley OHV heads, I'm sure I can find some harder ones in there!!!

As you might have seen, I'm not one for much testing!!! But I can make a quick jig to check their tension under a certain weight.

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: salt27 on January 09, 2018, 11:25:46 AM
Happy Birthday Patrick.

It looks as if you have already received your present (some assembly required).    :cheers:

  Don


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 09, 2018, 12:06:25 PM
Thanks Don!!!

Yes, Christmas, New Year and Birthday all within 2 weeks, the fun never ceases!!!

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: CNC-Dude on January 09, 2018, 04:00:29 PM
:-D Wobblywalrus,

 

I'll check how far I can shim the OEM ones to improve seating pressure without going ""coil bind + 40 or 60 thou" at full opening...
Patrick

Very nice project you have there. If I can add a few cents worth of experience to your build. Many racing cylinder head porters and builders try to not go closer than .100" before coil bind because it wears the springs out much faster due to over compressing them. I know people do and will continue to do it even when faced with facts and evidence it will. But maybe longer valves can help your valve spring selection and find a stiffer spring from more modern engines and possibly give you a much wider selection to choose from.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 09, 2018, 07:01:31 PM
Thanks, CNC-Dude,

I sensed I couldn't shim modern springs that tight, but you should see these OEM 85 years old springs, they nearly look like out of a retractable ball pen!!!

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on January 16, 2018, 01:38:49 PM
Too cold here to do anything decent...

But Marek's luggage was back from Poland after his holidays there at Christmas...

Nice bloke, nice magneto!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/LzFaU0u.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BNnW6YH.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Bxpg2wf.jpg)

More news soon I hope!!! Gotta make some room in the garage, too many bits everywhere!!!

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on February 16, 2018, 06:21:00 PM
Hi, a bit of movement... Not before time!!!

Went to the St Pancras railway station in London today, 320 miles round trip... Met in a hurry a Belgian friend of mine, Yves Campion. He donated a racing/period AMAL type 27 for this project and I gave him this magneto as grateful thanks...

(https://i.imgur.com/airs1sv.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/nKU0QD5.jpg)

Yves always travel with this souvenir:

(https://i.imgur.com/1a322nD.jpg)

It's a lapel pin from Rene Milhoux, another famous Belgian rider who broke numerous records at Montlery in the 30s on Gillet d'Herstal and F.N. motorcycles. All successful record breakers got one, but I have never seen another one...

I also found a 2nd Bosch FF1 AL magneto, this time in Australia... Should arrive home here in GB by the end of this month...

(https://i.imgur.com/opwFy7f.jpg)

Weather is getting better, I'll soon start dismantling the donor bike... Promess, cross my heart!!!

So long, Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 16, 2018, 08:17:36 PM
Patrick, two magnetos is nice.  it is always a good idea to have an extra one ready to be quickly installed. 


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Nortonist 592 on February 16, 2018, 10:47:48 PM
Hi Patrick,   Many years ago in Dublin I found on of those carbs in a dank, damp basement in Dublin.  Dragged it around with me for years and eventually back to California.  About 10 years ago a friend in Ireland was looking for one.  I was happy to mail it to him.  I'm looking forward to seeing this project come to life and run a record on the salt.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on February 17, 2018, 05:01:38 AM
Quote
Bill: About 10 years ago a friend in Ireland was looking for one

Hi Bill,

He would'nt happen to live in Enniskillen?

Yes, wobblywalrus, spare parts are always welcome!!! If only to make one very good one out of two average!!!

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on February 22, 2018, 10:06:39 AM
Hi everybody,,

Some time back, I contacted the british VMCC to see what was in the mc press at the time...

I received these 3 extracts this morning. They contain more details than the french accounts I'm familiar with, in particular on the 2nd failed attemp a week before the actual record date... Nice interesting read...

(https://i.imgur.com/y8NIOsj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/r7CXyK4.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/tb0pza3.jpg)

See ya,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Stainless1 on February 22, 2018, 10:31:12 AM
Great articles... thanks...
From reading that, it appears the ECTA rules allowing running up in classes is not a new idea....
Quite the accomplishment for 1933  :cheers:


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on February 22, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
Hi,

I also posted these GB articles on a french forum this afternoon...

And a friend chimed in and posted these period newspapers accounts...

Time to scrub up your french!!!  :-D

(http://www.500rgas.info/forum/download/file.php?id=429)

(http://www.500rgas.info/forum/download/file.php?id=430)

(http://www.500rgas.info/forum/download/file.php?id=431)

(http://www.500rgas.info/forum/download/file.php?id=432)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Rex Schimmer on February 25, 2018, 02:37:09 PM
An engine designed by an Italian and built by the French. What could be a greater challenge!!!

Rex


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on February 26, 2018, 04:42:15 PM
 :-D and paid for by an argentinian arms dealer, Dr (dentist...) Tito Rodolfo Jonghi, alias Rodolfo Von Chegger...  :-o

The model name , TJ 4, stands for Tito Jonghi, 4 HP (tax class for a 350cc in France...)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on March 03, 2018, 11:26:55 AM
Hi,

Bit of action today... The Bosch arrived from Australia, never seen such a nice piece of packaging!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/t3tqxSp.jpg)

I'm cleaning it at the moment, more photos later...

I also received a second hub, looks older and more like it, but sadly is way too big.

I did not touch the 1st one just in case, but it will now be used.

The hub is cast alloy and left as cast, with the wheels for the spokes in steel and pressed on.

(https://i.imgur.com/Y90Aw9k.jpg)

Center section looks horrible as cast, so time to swing it in the lathe...

(https://i.imgur.com/LsfiiWR.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xDGJkfZ.jpg)

The center was not only as cast, but also off round by about 1/8th, so I'm glad I did it!!!

See you all later..

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on March 04, 2018, 12:24:57 PM
A few photos of the mag inners...

(https://i.imgur.com/5L3GZaM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oMnhnfz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OfKoNeN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BOxoPS6.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/QCF0s5R.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on March 19, 2018, 05:11:16 PM
Hi,

More clement weather these last 2 days so I made a start of dismantling the donor bike...

Look at all this space... Positively palatial...  :-D

(https://i.imgur.com/SiAIjOU.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/h36pBuC.jpg)

Three hours later:

(https://i.imgur.com/9b7kMBg.jpg)

In between... Dropped the head, a tad rich in there...

(https://i.imgur.com/V75vanj.jpg)

Exhaust valve is stuck open...

(https://i.imgur.com/rFgkEJh.jpg)

The Bosch magneto just clears:

(https://i.imgur.com/EofCKvQ.jpg)

Good news, same tapers so the drive gear fits no sweat...

(https://i.imgur.com/Z1AhMCl.jpg)

More tomorrow after I go with the Buell Ulysses for its yearly roadworthy inspection...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 20, 2018, 01:06:37 AM
My shop is small, too.  I try not to have everything apart at the same time.  As an example, this year the engine was taken apart and redone.  It was back together last weekend.  Now I am taking the chassis apart for its maintenance and upgrades.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: revolutionary on March 20, 2018, 07:36:18 AM
Looks like a super neat project!


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on March 20, 2018, 04:59:06 PM
Hi,

Yeah... garage would be too small for 2 bikes, never mind 10 at the moment, plus lathe, micro miller, polishing wheel, bench, 3 welders, hydraulic ram press, parts, clothes, garden implements and, not to be forgoten, freezer!!!

Anyway, this afternoon, been trying to find a bolt big enough to do the magneto missing nut... nada, no luck...

...Then, tumbled across an old Buell mirror.. TILT!!! The bottom screw should do it, so recycle it from:

(https://i.imgur.com/8yPjT6f.jpg)

to this in about 1/4 of an hour:

(https://i.imgur.com/jNLlXaf.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZP1fo0d.jpg)

More dismantling... My method to block piston while unscrewing nuts from crankshafts: Big socket on top of piston:

(https://i.imgur.com/vgP1KMP.jpg)

Prevent piston upwards travel with whatever bit screwed on top, as here, 30's Harley tool that normally fixes on crank mouths to immobilize and allow work on con-rods to be done:

(https://i.imgur.com/duuJVoh.jpg)

Big lever, all done...

(https://i.imgur.com/4NBkQxW.jpg)

But the flywheel cone is well seated, it resisted my biggest hydraulic puller... Did not try too hard, will try again tomorrow and apply heat if needed...

So long, Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on March 28, 2018, 04:34:52 PM
Hi,

Drawn and have B&E Engineering in Crewe make me 2 extractors, one for the magneto and the other for the flywheel. Picked them today, early afternoon:

(https://i.imgur.com/A015TOa.jpg)

Quick sandwich and direction the garage!!! Forgot to say, but the engine won't go out of the frame with the flywheel on...

(https://i.imgur.com/ZJFXujg.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/GdaU0TG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/fvZvrHN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BfsJfoo.jpg)

Very greasy in there and in rather good nick if compared to the outside!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/QF7FrtJ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/HRtaYsR.jpg)

These engines where individually machined and assembled and have a unique number stamped on all the castings and some internal parts, 114 in this case (they probably started at 101, so that would be engine number 14. My other restored one is 109):

(https://i.imgur.com/a2YIWUw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ozAmX7r.jpg)

So long,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 28, 2018, 11:50:45 PM
Thanks for posting those pix.  That is a nice project.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on March 30, 2018, 04:26:15 PM
More pics then, Wobblywalrus!!!

Crank and its 2 main ball bearings (there's also a 3rd one between the drive gear and the outside flywheel, located inside the primary cast alloy cover)

(https://i.imgur.com/qLMK5hU.jpg)

#114 again...

(https://i.imgur.com/0zzIIiM.jpg)

The small TJ stamp found on all the machined parts:

(https://i.imgur.com/GUhruzR.jpg)

Found opposite the above one, an even smaller stamp, was lucky here on the oil pump drive gear, it is usually totally unlegible...

(https://i.imgur.com/gdCUyKs.jpg)

Bronze bodied oil pump and ancillaries:

(https://i.imgur.com/prZjFGo.jpg)

I then tried to pull out the clutch holding plate, no luck... Rather than do sommat silly, went and done the small alloy plate to bring the magneto to the right hight, about 1/8" thick:

(https://i.imgur.com/OXzq32l.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0n7VMRX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/JQr5Zzd.jpg)

Bye for now, have a good Easter break...

Patrick



Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on April 02, 2018, 03:35:38 PM
A day more was enough to come up with the goods to get the final bits of the gearbox out...

(https://i.imgur.com/AOUQh6u.jpg)

Four ball bearings in there, with three being obsolete, made out of unobtainum...

Clutch bell one:

(https://i.imgur.com/fmubDqm.jpg)

Two similar ones, big diameter and dead skinny, that support the secontary gear assembly, all made in one piece:

(https://i.imgur.com/kCbyedD.jpg)

And as usual with "crash" gearboxes, 2nd gears are well worn out. I will visit a local gear manufacturere to see what can we do to renew them...

(https://i.imgur.com/x2mNkQ2.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/TVUPj2s.jpg)

See you around, back to work tomorrow... : O (

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on April 06, 2018, 03:47:00 AM
Hi all,

Small packet arrived from France today from Claude Caucal who passed to me the TT 2 racing parts...

Contained the slide spring and the air intake for the carburettor... Many thanks!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/6jGS33x.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/uY1eLsC.jpg)

Bit by bit, the puzzle gets there!!!

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on April 24, 2018, 10:43:17 AM
Hi, boring stuff done recently, cleaning bits mostly...  :-(

Following problems 2 weeks ago with clutch castlenated nut, I redone the spanner to make it tighter and foolproof...

(https://i.imgur.com/ubvbHwn.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/QSEWMiI.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Ww2OQ83.jpg)

Also done a wooden jig this weekend to evaluate the rebrazing of the twin floats at the right angle for my horizontal carburettor:

(https://i.imgur.com/3v9Lqtv.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ltB27vs.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/K83FSIg.jpg)

Will transfer all this to a proper steel jig next weekend...

If one of you has good tips to silver braze these brass bits, I'm all ears!!!

See you all soon,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 24, 2018, 10:59:37 PM
Reply 45 shows the small stamp on the oil pump gear.  Is that a crack at the root of one of those teeth?  That looks like a great build.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on April 28, 2018, 12:40:54 PM
Hi,

Made a proper steel jig to braze the float chambers...

(https://i.imgur.com/0idiC04.jpg)

Brazed half yesterday...

(https://i.imgur.com/zim4Je5.jpg)

Was not too sure, looking at the brazing, so I switch off and did all the bits for the carb air correction channel:

(https://i.imgur.com/TZcaP3W.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/565N02N.jpg)

Finish the brazing today:

(https://i.imgur.com/LQTSZHM.jpg)

I only have a micro miller in the garage, too small for the spot facing, so another jig in the lathe... Not too successful, not rigid enough and too much overhang hence vibrations... I'll drop the floats at my fav machinist in the week...

(https://i.imgur.com/RiFREa3.jpg)

In the mean time, a good filing seance to clean all that extra silver braze...

(https://i.imgur.com/0tOnbb5.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/fq9jNdJ.jpg)

So long, Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Old Scrambler on April 29, 2018, 05:22:40 PM
Nice work :-) :-) :-)


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 04, 2018, 09:41:22 AM
Thanks, Old Scrambler...

My friend did the spot facing this week, all good and tested for no leaks...

(https://i.imgur.com/PdGhpDn.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/CcDwVtB.jpg)

Doin' the float's ticklers at the moment...

See you, Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 07, 2018, 03:40:44 AM
All the Jonghi engines have a pairing number... This one is 114:

(https://i.imgur.com/IjCLMQf.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/u0kLQcj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/dbzV9Gn.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/rmuzwVq.jpg)

I have finished the ticklers:

(https://i.imgur.com/72WamSt.jpg)

And lengthened the magneto strap, this Bosch is way taller than the standard Magneto France item...

(https://i.imgur.com/552zMK9.jpg)

Bye for now, Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 07, 2018, 01:39:53 PM
Magneto earthing post:

(https://i.imgur.com/ECyXE9v.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Tjewzkn.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/QfUmYxL.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/eqtzPPU.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 14, 2018, 12:47:17 PM
Hi,

Been pulling off the cam followers guides so I can bring the cylinder and timing cover to my machinist to have the deck just skimmed enough to have it flat within a thou and dead parallel with the cranshaft...

(https://i.imgur.com/MiyGZdV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5hlZCtv.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/sl46MoS.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OGczfH8.jpg)

   
Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 25, 2018, 05:06:07 AM
Got all my sand blasted bits last Friday, so time spent in the garage went up!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/R0PX3AP.jpg)
   
(https://i.imgur.com/nKpZ1EM.jpg)

I bought a can of cellulose varnish and a can of cellulose silver... Started experimenting with the varnish directly brushed on the parts, nive grey look, reminds me of the XR1000 paint job...

(https://i.imgur.com/ZHnh08N.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/DeKEX2Z.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/tUfQpfg.jpg)

The record breaker forks were streamlined with chatterton, a kind of cloth reinforced sticky tape. To achieve that, the inside spaces of the forks are filled with balsa wood... Here we go!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/4w4vAal.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0IZPu3q.jpg)

Quick experiment with gaffer tape, no good!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/Z36C3Ct.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Doc B. on May 25, 2018, 08:41:02 AM
For what it's worth, here is a pic of what you might be looking for -

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=b9ba29b7-0206-44bc-9fd1-23647df22b62&Enum=103 (http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=b9ba29b7-0206-44bc-9fd1-23647df22b62&Enum=103)

(http://velobase.com/CompImages/SmallParts/11848C8F-02A8-42BB-B746-463FB281DE0B.jpeg)

The closest currently made thing might be hockey stick grip tape.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 25, 2018, 11:26:27 AM
 :-D Yep, Doc B, that's the thing!

I'll look for some... Needs to be silver colored...

Thanks for the link.

Patrick



Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Doc B. on May 25, 2018, 01:22:31 PM
If this stuff was made in the 30's I would imagine the silver color might be something like butyrate dope over the cotton.

Maybe you could paint it?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chatterton-Fabric-Adhesive-50mmx50-panastore/dp/B06X9GV9B1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chatterton-Fabric-Adhesive-50mmx50-panastore/dp/B06X9GV9B1)


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 25, 2018, 05:38:20 PM
No idea, Dr B. ...The French call electrical tape Chatterton as well!!!

More work done this afternoon: The footrests need to move back in the frame, so I cut and moved the anchors...

(https://i.imgur.com/VMTWGYf.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/RHe6BRn.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/eIQ8L5r.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/c64Cd32.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/1qZfBto.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/galvopP.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/7MAgnWW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/C9UCtAF.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/60WUv3Y.jpg)

More frame mods tomorrow!!!

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Koncretekid on May 25, 2018, 09:47:44 PM
That should work.  But don't forget, if the footpegs are within 6" of the rear axle, you'll have to run "A' Class.
Tom


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 26, 2018, 04:04:48 AM
Yes, Koncretekid,

The right one is OK, the left one's a tad too long.

They aren't the right shape anyway, so they'll be redone later on...

That's where they were on the 1933 record bike:

(https://i.imgur.com/Zgtc0nd.jpg)

Will try now to unbrase the brake pedal anchor...

Wish me luck, I don't feel my small torch will give me enough heat to unbrase it...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 26, 2018, 11:09:50 AM
Hi,

Left the frame alone today cause I recieved this morning all the bits to do the front axle:

(https://i.imgur.com/U9nD35a.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/diOl7bw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/WBzljbN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Y2Jw0FB.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aEQ0lom.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8WBpUaz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/38lWPc9.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: manta22 on May 26, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Patrick;

Consider drilling the bolt head and nut for safety wire.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 26, 2018, 03:15:51 PM
It's in the planning, Neil...

5mn left before dinner, so I attacked the side car eyes without mercy...  :-D :-D

(https://i.imgur.com/kHQIpQ7.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KGnda7f.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/slLWeyI.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KLvRwK8.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on May 28, 2018, 06:16:32 PM
Long session today, but worthwhile... Foot rests

(https://i.imgur.com/mEb6ecR.jpg)

I have plenty of spare spanners in which to make strong parts  :-D...

(https://i.imgur.com/sW2N5df.jpg)

Tubes with threads welded at both ends.

(https://i.imgur.com/lR04eqg.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/AdXti3R.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/gSyV3F7.jpg)

Small walk with Susan in the early afternoon... Once back, started on the rear brake pedal...

(https://i.imgur.com/M1s8XaP.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/u9hqN5c.jpg)

Just polished et temporarely fixed this period aftermarket french Vitex foot change that has been following me for about 40 years...

(https://i.imgur.com/NwALLD4.jpg)

We'll see much later if it's suitable...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 08, 2018, 04:17:58 AM
Hi,

The brakes have poor guidance for the acting cam, specially on the back where the lever has a pronounced offset... Let's modify all this and get a straight lever...

(https://i.imgur.com/XX5To4A.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/RokddcD.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BrHmCrZ.jpg)
Eyeballing the geometry wanted, two more spanners will be sacrified...

(https://i.imgur.com/STK7Lwj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/WsZyOCC.jpg)

Nearly all done...

(https://i.imgur.com/duaFZfS.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 08, 2018, 04:26:10 AM
Hi,

Bit of reinforcement of the torque arm, its two little flats were a touch flimsy...

(https://i.imgur.com/Um1v3UD.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/lBen3sa.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/K3p4rGa.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: manta22 on June 08, 2018, 06:47:12 PM
Patrick;

What braze welding alloy are you using?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 10, 2018, 02:54:33 PM
 :-D

I don't really know, Neil...

They came from my 1st job in GB back in 1985...

The firm went bust and I was told to help myself since we, newer guys, had no access to redudancy payments... So that's what I took, together with a little Myford lathe with lots of missing bits!!!

Now down to the last 10 rods...

They have flux imbeded in little depressions on the periphery...

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: manta22 on June 10, 2018, 03:08:52 PM
Patrick;

It appears to be a bead-forming alloy, similar to All-State 11, etc. Good Stuff!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: ggl205 on June 10, 2018, 03:47:51 PM
Patrick;

It appears to be a bead-forming alloy, similar to All-State 11, etc. Good Stuff!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

The U.K. is still king of brazed joins.

John


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: salt27 on June 10, 2018, 09:37:51 PM
Patrick;

It appears to be a bead-forming alloy, similar to All-State 11, etc. Good Stuff!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

The U.K. is still king of brazed joins.

John


Yeah, but the U.S. is the king of rolled joints.    :roll:

 Ok so maybe it's Jamaica.     :-D

Patrick, thanks for sharing your restoration.
Nice fab work.

  Don


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 15, 2018, 12:00:58 PM
Hi, rolled joints, you're cracking me up...

Done a lot recently, hubs have been sent to build the wheels, I've redone a few bits for the forks, nowt too entertaining really!!! But today, I started on the crank...

(https://i.imgur.com/DNVdmjM.jpg)

The bike is indeed French, but the pin, race and rollers are from Great Britain, Hoffmann made:

(https://i.imgur.com/b0HEhLF.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/tsmCeKk.jpg)

Strange thing on Jonghi 350cc... The six holes on the wheels are filled with lead... With age, centrigugal force and mileage, they start moving a lot.

I'll recast all that like on my 1st TJ 4 and will immobilize the lot a bit better with screws.

(https://i.imgur.com/1SxkxYw.jpg)

Rapid polishing of the rod:

(https://i.imgur.com/T9SOEEt.jpg)

Old air drill to get to the innaccessible corners of the rod...

(https://i.imgur.com/dHWsmHK.jpg)

See you,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: manta22 on June 15, 2018, 05:53:10 PM
Patrick;

I wonder if this would keep the lead weights in place:

1. Clean the ID of each hole.
2. brush flux on the ID of each hole.
3. Cast the weights with 63/37 solder.

The solder should create a bond with the crank counterweights if the counterweight can be brought up to the melting point of this alloy, 361F.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 15, 2018, 06:38:21 PM
I like your thinking, Neil,  :-D

I'll have a go, but the tinning of the the inner walls might bond with pure lead anyway?

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Ron Gibson on June 15, 2018, 07:06:08 PM
I think the pure lead is way softer and will have a tendency to distort or flow more even if it is bonded to the holes. You can take a stick of 70/30 body lead and hang half of it over an edge. In time it will bend completely down under it's own weight.

Ron


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: manta22 on June 15, 2018, 08:14:48 PM
I like your thinking, Neil,  :-D

I'll have a go, but the tinning of the the inner walls might bond with pure lead anyway?

Patrick

Patrick;

The reason I suggested using a 63/37 solder alloy is that it has the lowest melting point of any solder. Easier on your crankshaft.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 16, 2018, 03:48:02 AM
Thank you both, Neil, Ron, for the advise...

This is the lead I have, roofing lead...

(https://i.imgur.com/aNSb93r.jpg)

I bought a roll some years back when I repaired some of my roof that had a few broken tiles...

Would that be pure lead? It's very soft and easy to fashion...

The roll was round when I bought it!!!

Now collapsed under its own weight!!!

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: bones on June 17, 2018, 02:06:42 AM
Hi Patrick
  Re the lead weights in the crank. Can you get hold of some "mallory metal" and turn the weights.
 then press the pieces into the crank holes.They won't go anywhere. It's a carbide based metal that is machinable.

Also with the big end. If you have to replace the big end pin it would be a good idea to get rid of the crowded roller
setup. You should be able to find a caged big end bearing , with a silver plated cage preferably.

   cheers    Bones

 


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 17, 2018, 05:14:35 AM
Whaooo, we're getting somewhere!!!

Never heard before about this mallory alloy, that's what I love about this forum, lots of guys with slightly different perspectives and backgrounds, so plenty of proper advise given...

This is what I found about densities:

Iron: 7.87

Lead: 11.35

Mallory alloy: from 17 to 18.5

I did my 1st Jonghi 3 years ago with lead, despite not liking one bit the shape of the slugs that came out of it...

On this one, the slugs were moving about quite a bit but their weight is pretty consistant within 5 grammes which tells me none of it departed towards the bottom of the crankcases.

So I have a good reference for the weight to be added, rather than just fill the holes flush.

(https://i.imgur.com/A3zkABf.jpg)

The big end and ancillaries are perfect, I'll leave them as is at this stage.

Just a bit of work, filing and polishing, to clean up the rod...

I also have a full set of NOS replacements, rod race, pin, nuts, rollers in a jar full of oil...  :-D

(https://i.imgur.com/RpMNJ8H.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xHkYha7.jpg)

Thanks again!!! Well appreciated!!!

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 17, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
Busy weekend ,

I'll leave the crank alone while I investigate this Mallory alloy....

So, instead, I started the second petrol tank cap... It went better than I thought it would... (sommat bad bound to happen soon...)

(https://i.imgur.com/WaervGl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XIr9UnY.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Zxli3Kx.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/AGqIkfX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BUhmnKZ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/smdPPZ3.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/waBAJYQ.jpg)

In them days, these english caps came with four different levers, the flat one as shown, the basculing lever as on Sarolea Gregoire "monotube", the Brough Superior version with three balls and the Jonghi one with just one ball.

Today, only the flat lever is available...

I'll do the Jonghi version later, much classier!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/VszpnxC.jpg)

So long,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: ggl205 on June 17, 2018, 11:09:06 AM
Never heard before about this mallory alloy, that's what I love about this forum, lots of guys with slightly different perspectives and backgrounds, so plenty of proper advise given

Mallory metal (also known by several other names) is just a tungsten alloy used for balancing cranks. Easy to tack weld too.

John


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: manta22 on June 17, 2018, 07:10:53 PM
Never heard before about this mallory alloy, that's what I love about this forum, lots of guys with slightly different perspectives and backgrounds, so plenty of proper advise given

Mallory metal (also known by several other names) is just a tungsten alloy used for balancing cranks. Easy to tack weld too.

John

Expensive too!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 18, 2018, 09:43:35 AM
I'll see the costs when I find a supplier!!!

I finished yesterday by taking off the knee grips steel holders.

They'll be reused later once the tank extension is done. Plus a few rubbers to insulate the tank from the insane power of this engine  :-D

(https://i.imgur.com/QAQcXfV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/E8K1PK6.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/AnTEXqg.jpg)

So long,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 18, 2018, 11:22:41 AM
Patrick, you can heat the crank in a kitchen oven to around 450 degrees F.  Then, pour the lead in the holes.  The crank will cool and contract around the lead and this will help to hold it in place.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: manta22 on June 18, 2018, 11:25:57 AM
WW;

If he uses a flux, the lead will be soldered onto the crank. No shrink-fit is needed but it will help.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 18, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
Hi,

I could do a lot of things with lead, but thinking about it, that's all they had as heavy metal in the 30s...

The std street Jonghi side valve was given for 4500 rpm...

The carb, cams and overlap of TT 2 should see its revs rise to well over 6000rpm, a 33% increase and centrigugal force rises at the square of the rpm.

Loads more strain...

I know the Jonghi racers had a different crank arrangement, but no photos or drawings have been found so far.

So, faced with using the street crank, I fancy improving it a touch!!!

Thanks again to all for the to and fro, it helps narrowing down the solutions.

See ya all,

Patrick

 


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 18, 2018, 03:36:37 PM
Bit more done this afternoon after work: Air vent fitting for the tank...

(https://i.imgur.com/aM5mJ2c.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/TtrjVC9.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/rqqSCdz.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Harold Bettes on June 18, 2018, 06:56:49 PM
Patrick,

Looks like a fun project. The challenges of recovery, restoration, and performance improvement are time consumers but provide much in rewards. 8-)

Question on the balance of the single cylinder engine: What % of reciprocating vs rotating weight are you trying to do? Seems I recall that a number of 36% to 40% was often used on performance poppers but do not remember exactly.

Although the tungsten material (Mallory metal alloy) is good to use, it is expensive. :-o

Good Luck on your interesting project. :cheers:

Regards,
HB2 :-)


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 22, 2018, 04:16:05 AM
Hi Harold, I do not know the Jonghi balance factor.

The only thing I can say is that they are not known to be boneshackers!!! And I know the balancing weight I removed as lead.

I leave the crank alone for the time being as it is not too urgent...

Continuing work on the cycle parts... Handlebars decision time soon.

TT 2 had quite a wide set up to cope with the pains of a 24 hour run.

I want it tighter for smaller run lengths on the Salt Flats.

The outside bits in the horizontal plane:

(https://i.imgur.com/YRNGBF4.jpg)

Vertical plane:

(https://i.imgur.com/eh5eskG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/yuq9FdV.jpg)

In between:

(https://i.imgur.com/PN3KC2B.jpg)

With fork stops to limit the steering to allowed 15 degrees:

(https://i.imgur.com/ijel6cr.jpg)

I'll leave it for a while before welding for good!!!

So long,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: wobblywalrus on June 22, 2018, 11:17:04 AM
Alpha Bearings in the West Midlands helped me 46 years ago with my Matchless and they are still in business.  They specialize in the crank work you need.  The typical procedure is to figure out the weights while dynamically balancing the crank/rod/piston assembly.  Really, one cannot be done without doing the other.  They might be the help you need.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 22, 2018, 11:57:44 AM
Hi wobblywalrus,

Yes, I know Alpha Bearings, they have done work for me in the past, mostly obsolete crankpins or rod races.

I have done quite a few Harley Sportsters and K/KH cranks in the past, always used the race shop 50 % of the reciprocating weight rather than the there about std 60 % the factory use on their street models.

The race 50 % factor on these V twins seems to push the dreaded "around 4500 rpm" vibration out of the available rev range, so I like it, but I'm not sure at all it'll be the same factor on a single!!!

I'm not too worried anyway, as I said, I don't know the balance factor, but I do know the weight I've taken out as lead!!!

I might spend tomorrow weighting all the bits of the crank assembly, and then, I can have a go at calculating the factor they used in them days!

Thanks again,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: sofadriver on June 22, 2018, 09:54:34 PM
there's no steering degree limit any more.


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 23, 2018, 03:21:45 AM
Hi, Sofadriver,

 :-D I'll have to find meself another rule book, the latest I have is 2014!!!

But I'll need the stops if I go for the extreme look:

Just tacked with silver braze to have a good look at it...

(https://i.imgur.com/C42YlpV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/hVDPPWr.jpg)

Before and after, nothing like elbow grease and a small polishing mop!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/t7QhfFj.jpg)

Assembled the AMAC levers on their perches and fitted with locking wire, good looks...

(https://i.imgur.com/C322rh0.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/o426BwV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KkqyaLE.jpg)

So long,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on June 24, 2018, 03:04:28 AM
Hi,

Done some calcs yesterday for evaluating crank balance. Balancing the rod on horizontal edge to find its equilibrium point:

(https://i.imgur.com/AxeUI2a.jpg)

This to find the two distances that allow the calcs of rod rotating weight and reciprocating weight.

(https://i.imgur.com/EqinpoH.jpg)

Then calc sheet "a la" Harley KR, assuming a 50% factor (factor at this stage is unknown for this single)

(https://i.imgur.com/oKod9v2.jpg)

I'll check more today to see if I can easily determine repartition of masses on the crank itself, not that evident!

(https://i.imgur.com/Nh7nitz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/l7kRmVv.jpg)

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Old Scrambler on June 24, 2018, 08:54:08 AM
Patrick..........I run a Triumph T20 Cub at the AMA-sanctioned BMST. I began with an early model but converted the big-end crank bearing to a later roller-cage and used the original crank-weight. Because the 243cc piston is heavier, the balance is slightly changed from original. It begins to buzz at 7,000-rpm :|but so far has held together for more than 2-dozen runs on the salt.

I see in your pics a few 'nicks' along the rod.  Your plan to increase the rpms will obviously stress the rotating masses..............My experience with a small single versus a twin is to keep the crank near its original weight/balance. I like your project and watch with great interest...........carry-on 8-) 8-) 8-)   


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on July 01, 2018, 03:47:53 PM
Thanks, Old Scrambler!!!

I had a few diffuculties finishing the handlebars recently!!!

Nearly there at last!!!

Kill button and main ignition switch:

(https://i.imgur.com/FTVnHVC.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/LVIR0A8.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/E6cJYcv.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/L5guSO6.jpg)

Few more bits made for the magneto:

(https://i.imgur.com/tAuOWoP.jpg)

Tried to whiten the alloy cases with caustic soda, not entirely satisfied, will try to find some acid, works much better!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/73DKHxd.jpg)

Also dropped the hight of the steering damper knob, so had to move the star spring from top to bottom. Done a small spring for the knob, that job is normally done via the spring holder which is now discarded.

(https://i.imgur.com/SqmyZKF.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xF1WTyT.jpg)

So long,

Patrick


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: Old Scrambler on July 03, 2018, 10:09:39 AM
The safety 'kill' switch must be lanyard operated.........


Title: Re: New Vintage Project, 250cc M-VG, Reconstruction of a 1933 French Jonghi 350
Post by: thefrenchowl on July 03, 2018, 04:15:21 PM
It will be, Old Scrambler, all mechanical, operated from the twist grip on the left hand side, auto spring loaded tap plus 2nd kill switch behind the tap.

Similar to what I did on my KHK in 2011:

(https://i.imgur.com/58zGPxW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/vLTiY2B.jpg)

The wedge that keep the cable tentionned and the valve open has a strap to my left wrist. If I fall, the wedge goes out, valve closes and kills ignition as well.

See ya,

Patrick