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Tech Information => Safety => Topic started by: Happy Pappy on December 16, 2017, 06:47:37 PM



Title: Arm Restraints
Post by: Happy Pappy on December 16, 2017, 06:47:37 PM
Hi All,
A short time ago I heard some talk about making the sewn-in arm restraints illegal. Does anyone know different?  Something about the need for the restraint being placed at the small part of the wrist, I took that as to mean just above the hand. As you know sewn-in restraints are a bit closer to the elbow. Anyhow I am ordering a new fire suit and prefer the sewn-in style but...
Thanks & Merry Christmas,
Chris


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Stainless1 on December 16, 2017, 11:13:21 PM
Order what you want.... don't worry about the future possible rules... worst case, you have to cut your sewn off and go to standalone sometime...
The arm restraint is there to keep your arms attached to you in a crash.... don't want them outside the protected area.  If you can do that at the upper forearm or the wrist does no matter.... it is about keeping them inside.


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Dynoroom on December 17, 2017, 02:12:10 AM
The 2018 SCTA Rule book WILL have a revision on the rule regarding arm restraints. Mainly regarding the "D" rings used on many types of restraints. The D rings have been shown to fail so they will no longer be allowed.
Regarding sewed in type restraints use common sense, if the restraint is near the elbow & your arm can exit the plane of the roll cage you will not be allowed to run.
The "slip" type adjuster used by some competitors will also no longer be allowed. If you don't know what the slip type of restraint is you don't need to worry about it. 
What the SCTA is looking for is a "three bar" adjuster similar to whats used on your seat belts


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Happy Pappy on December 17, 2017, 10:29:58 AM
Thanks guys,
Yeah I get the arms confined to the cockpit & SFI 3.3, didn't know about the "D Rings". I was looking up the slip type and wasn't sure how they work? No matter I won't be using.

Again and as always Thank you all,
Chris


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: turborick on December 17, 2017, 10:56:15 AM
we use both arm and wrist restraints at the same time.


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: handyguy on December 17, 2017, 01:41:42 PM
Maybe a picture of what is allowed will eliminate all the others !!


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: RidgeRunner on December 18, 2017, 04:55:40 PM
Maybe a picture of what is allowed will eliminate all the others !!

     +1  Another inquiring mind would like to know in order to prepare for next season more effectively.

                Ed


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 18, 2017, 05:19:28 PM
Page 55 rule 4-U, that's the rule, no more no less. The pages in the 17 rule book aren't in numerical order so it'll be after page 71-ish. :roll:
  Sid.


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Stan Back on December 18, 2017, 07:10:47 PM
. . . but I was notified today that the Rule Book will be updated because of late safety and procedural concerns.  Perhaps it's best to wait and see if this is covered.

It probably won't require any fabrication, welding or painting, so let's all just give it a little time.


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Stainless1 on December 18, 2017, 10:39:41 PM
I'd say keep you eyes on DJ and Stroud's websites.... I heard the SCTA was working with them on restraints due to recent failures.


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Happy Pappy on December 18, 2017, 10:53:20 PM
Hope So... That's were my new fire suit is coming from. I copied and sent the message from Dynoroom to Vincent. I am confident he will get it right :-)

Thanks, and Merry Christmas to ya all,
Chris


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Happy Pappy on January 14, 2018, 10:03:24 PM
Some more information,  this was in the minutes from yesterdays HDR Meeting...

“D” ring attachment is no longer acceptable, “3 bar system” is the only acceptable attachment. No exceptions! Today Dietz Arm Restraints are the only restraints that will be accepted racing this year. Watch the SCTA Web for updates.

Anyway, I am not sure what a "3 bar system" is?

Chris


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: jdincau on January 16, 2018, 09:58:07 PM
Interesting, everyone's helmet is held down with D rings, perhaps the loading is different.


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: jdincau on January 16, 2018, 10:04:38 PM
Dietz Arm Restraints are the only restraints that will be accepted racing this year

Dietz?


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: jacksoni on January 17, 2018, 08:10:34 AM
http://www.deist.com/pub/DeistSafety_Catalog.pdf

Page 14

Not a lot of detail but can just make out the strap adjuster-3 bar?


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Ron Gibson on January 17, 2018, 11:26:24 AM
Page 13 shows 3" and 4", 3 bar adjusters separately as hardware.

Ron


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Jack Gifford on January 18, 2018, 01:08:44 AM
Are arm (and leg) restraints sewed to the suit to prevent the possibility of arm/hand (leg/foot) slipping out?


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: kiwi belly tank on January 18, 2018, 09:23:58 PM
For records over 400 there is talk of ball sack restraints & eyeball retainers. :mrgreen:
  Sid.


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Dr. Spin on May 01, 2018, 01:42:19 PM
Official statement on the "new" Arm Restraint rule:Background
The Technical Committee has observed failures of SFI Spec 3.3 arm restraints in multiple incidents over the past several years. This has prompted a rule modification to minimize these failures at our LSR venues by addressing the potential causes of those observations. Note: this change in the rule is NOT manufacture specific.
The New/Modified Rule:
Here is the wording of the modified rule changes are in BOLD/CAPITALIZED:
….SFI specification 3.3 arm restrains with a manufacture date of 2006 or later are required in all vehicles. IN ADDITION: ALL ARM RESTRAINT HARWARE MUST BE OF A SINGLE PIECE MANUFACTURE. I.E. NO TWO PIECE OR WELDED “D” RING STYLE ADJUSTERS. ADJUSTABLE TETHERS SHOULD USE A 3-BAR SYSTEM SIMILAR TO THAT USED IN LAP BELT ADJUSTERS. NON-SEWN IN RESTRAINTS SHALL HAVE A TIGHT FIT AROUND THE NARROWEST PART OF THE ARM. ALL ARM RESTRAINTS MUST BE DEMONSTRATED TO BE EFFECTIVE.
The Problem(s) and Solution(s):
The problems that we are addressing with this modification fall into two categories.
1.   The first being a mechanical failure of the “welded” “D” ring(s) when being used as an adjuster in the restraint.
Our solution for this failure is to disallow the use of Welded or non-one-piece D rings unless they are being used as an attachment ONLY point. Please note that we have not observed failures in the D rings (two) when they are being used only as an attachment ONLY point. An example would be the sewn-in D rings in a fire suit that are being used ONLY as an attachment point.
Discussion: The welded/non-one piece D-rings are failing (pulling apart) when used as an “adjuster”. We have not observed failures when used as an attachment point only (think sewo into the suit).. hence the convoluted wording that is trying to allow one-piece D rings in certain applications… i.e. as an attachment only point OR backed up by a three-bar adjuster… see attached photo…
2.   The second common failure with the D rings is they are “un-adjusting” during multiple impacts.
The solution is to eliminate the D rings when being used as an adjuster and replace with a Three Bar adjuster. I.E. the elimination of D rings for any adjuster application.
Discussion: The welded D rings are essentially made from wire.. i.e. round… and with multiple high G pulls as in a roll-over(s) “slip” to the point of rendering the adjustment useless. We have not observed this with the one-piece D rings as they are manufactured from “stamped” flat stock with edges and do not appear to “slip” like the round or wire stock welded D rings do.  That said I would NOT disallow the three bar “sliding” adjuster as shown in the photo below, as I have not seen any problems as we have discussed so far… however you could ask for a non-slider type three bar to back it up….


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: gnomenator on July 05, 2018, 10:35:59 AM
Morning all, not sure if anybody can answer this as it seems to be a gray area- does any company make non-sewn in arm restraints that will be able to pass the new rule??Looking at the pics that SCTA posted, some without captions, just made it more confusing. :? I talked with Bob Stroud this morning and he doesn't make slip-on style and doesn't know of any other manufacturer that is. I want/need to upgrade mine but don't want to get a set, drive 800+ miles to be told 'sorry' :? Any help or direction would be totally appreciated! Thanks in advance this site contains more good info (and humor :-D ) than anything else around! Great SALT to all this year-go fast and stay SAFE !! :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: MRK on July 05, 2018, 11:36:31 AM
Morning all, not sure if anybody can answer this as it seems to be a gray area- does any company make non-sewn in arm restraints that will be able to pass the new rule??Looking at the pics that SCTA posted, some without captions, just made it more confusing. :? I talked with Bob Stroud this morning and he doesn't make slip-on style and doesn't know of any other manufacturer that is. I want/need to upgrade mine but don't want to get a set, drive 800+ miles to be told 'sorry' :? Any help or direction would be totally appreciated! Thanks in advance this site contains more good info (and humor :-D ) than anything else around! Great SALT to all this year-go fast and stay SAFE !! :cheers: :cheers:

Check the SCTA Rules section of this forum. Lot's of chatter regarding the arm restraint rule change. Might give you some more insight.
Cheers.


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: jdincau on July 05, 2018, 11:50:59 AM
Call DJ Safety at (323) 221-0000


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: gnomenator on July 05, 2018, 11:54:32 AM
Morning MRK, duhh, I completely overlooked that section, you hit it on the head with your advise, the pic that Nathan posted on the last page answered my question without the gray(I have ENUF of that already :-D)area, because that is exactly the type that I have that apparently will not work, so it's off to Summit to check out some new ones or DJ directly maybe.Thanks so much for your quick perfect reply! :cheers: :cheers: Have a super fast safe summer! Ed update: thanks to you also jdincau, got the number and I'm on it ! Thx


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Ron Gibson on July 05, 2018, 12:19:13 PM
I think you have to go directly to DJ and tell they need to be SCTA spec. Evidently they add the three bar to make it SCTA compliant. I should get my new ones and re-certed belts from DJ today or tomorrow. Now have three sets :-(.

Ron


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: gnomenator on July 06, 2018, 08:58:55 PM
Hi all , been trying to connect with DJ Safety and have left several VM's and sent a back-up email and no reply at all. Now I know that this is the busy time of the year, I understand that, so does anybody have a end-run way to get them to at least answer the phone or email??  :? :| thanks again to all who put me on the right track, now if I can just get the train rollin' ......... :-D :dhorse:


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on July 07, 2018, 10:46:38 AM
Same story here.  I'm hoping it's just a holiday week issue.


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: DallasV on July 07, 2018, 11:41:38 AM
We just ordered some arm restraints from Rick White at Autopower. Told him we needed for the new rules and he is a salt flats guy so I'm assuming they will be ok. just throwing that out there


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: gnomenator on July 07, 2018, 01:02:04 PM
Hi DallasV, let's hope so, do you have avy contact info for him? I think MM may be correct that it is a holiday thing-let's HOPE so-thanks for your help :cheers:


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: gnomenator on July 09, 2018, 10:14:08 AM
Great news!!  :cheers:  Just got thru almost instantly to DJ, and my approved arm restraints are on their way! I didn't ask, but prety sure MM hit it on the head-probably closed for the holiday!  Great salt to all-go FAST and stay safe!! :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on July 09, 2018, 11:10:21 AM
Called DJ just now - asked for Ben - and they're on their way.  323-221-0000 

~ $39.00 + shipping - got $10.00 off of the $49.00 price as a "Bonneville Discount".


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: gnomenator on July 09, 2018, 11:35:49 AM
PHEW !!! One less thing to worryabout!! :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Arm Restraints
Post by: revolutionary on July 10, 2018, 08:20:59 AM
FYI I was able to send my -20 jacket with sewn in arm restraints back to Stroud and they swapped them out at no charge - shipping only. Really pleased!