Landracing Forum
Thrust-powered Land Speed information => Discussions on absolute land speed records => Topic started by: martine on October 23, 2017, 12:31:29 PM
-
Well it's all getting rather exciting with low-speed trials of Bloodhound now taking place at Newquay Airport (Cornwall, UK). Here's some run reports from driver Andy Green some may find interesting...
http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/newquay-2017/bloodhound-dynamic-testing-run-reports (http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/newquay-2017/bloodhound-dynamic-testing-run-reports)
And here's some calculations resulting from the early runs to put Bloodhound's acceleration in perspective...
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/british/bloodhound-ssc-vs-mclaren-720s-acceleration-stats-150mph (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/british/bloodhound-ssc-vs-mclaren-720s-acceleration-stats-150mph)
If all goes well at Newquay, the team still needs to raise significantly more money to get to South Africa for the record attempt. :-(
-
Well it's all getting rather exciting with low-speed trials of Bloodhound now taking place at Newquay Airport (Cornwall, UK). Here's some run reports from driver Andy Green some may find interesting...
http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/newquay-2017/bloodhound-dynamic-testing-run-reports (http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/newquay-2017/bloodhound-dynamic-testing-run-reports)
And here's some calculations resulting from the early runs to put Bloodhound's acceleration in perspective...
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/british/bloodhound-ssc-vs-mclaren-720s-acceleration-stats-150mph (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/british/bloodhound-ssc-vs-mclaren-720s-acceleration-stats-150mph)
If all goes well at Newquay, the team still needs to raise significantly more money to get to South Africa for the record attempt. :-(
They also still do not have a rocket engine. I'm guessing the car won't go to South Africa for at least another 3-4 years.
-
Correct, currently they only run the jet engine....the idea is to run the car in this configuration next year in SA to beat the current record from the Thrust SSC and to break the 800 MPH barrier......with the data's of this runs they are getting the base when they run the Jet/Rocket hybrid configuration.....
all other would be tough.....the complexity of the hybrid on a complete new playa in this range of speed makes no sense....
How many runs had the Thrust SSC before he broke the sound barrier (final run was no. 65).....this racer done the most runs a jet record car ever done....and may be of all other record breaker who run for the outright record.....SCTA record breaker not count.....here, racers are running over decades and in different classes....
They also still do not have a rocket engine. I'm guessing the car won't go to South Africa for at least another 3-4 years.
-
I was watching the runs this morning and they mentioned yet another major change to the car. The V8 petrol engine is out. They will be designing and using an electric motor system to run the rocket fuel pumps.
-
Looks that Ron meanwhile understand why I told them a long time ago.....to get the engine out and replace it to a other system.....electric motor is a much "safer" solution....and easier to control....
I was watching the runs this morning and they mentioned yet another major change to the car. The V8 petrol engine is out. They will be designing and using an electric motor system to run the rocket fuel pumps.
-
Looks that Ron meanwhile understand why I told them a long time ago.....to get the engine out and replace it to a other system.....electric motor is a much "safer" solution....and easier to control....
I was watching the runs this morning and they mentioned yet another major change to the car. The V8 petrol engine is out. They will be designing and using an electric motor system to run the rocket fuel pumps.
I agree. It will be a better system overall. Probably has as much to do with sponsor $$$$ as anything though. My guess is an auto manufacturer that is heavily investing in e-power is behind the switch.
-
It would be interesting to calculate the energy (kWh), power density, and weight of a combined battery, motor, control electronics, and cooling which might replace the forced-induction V8, gearbox, fuel, and whatever cooling system was to be used (ice/water per the bloodhoundssc web site).
Per that website, the Jag V8 was rated at about 550 HP, or about 410 kW. Someone here must know what that weighs.
Rocket motor run time is to be about 20 seconds. The electric motor has to have some advantages around startup - e.g., only when you need the pump, vs. at the start of the run.
Recent Tesla Model S have fuses, or breakers, which open at 1500 A, whereas the battery pack operates at about 370 V nominal. So figure a Tesla Model S battery pack can deliver around 550 kW. If the pack is 120 kWh, then it can deliver that power for about 12 minutes... you might not even have to charge the battery between runs!
They aren't planning to run the rocket in bi-propellant mode for a while, so they have some time to let battery tech evolve further.
-
Correct, currently they only run the jet engine....the idea is to run the car in this configuration next year in SA to beat the current record from the Thrust SSC and to break the 800 MPH barrier......with the data's of this runs they are getting the base when they run the Jet/Rocket hybrid configuration.....
all other would be tough.....the complexity of the hybrid on a complete new playa in this range of speed makes no sense....
How many runs had the Thrust SSC before he broke the sound barrier (final run was no. 65).....this racer done the most runs a jet record car ever done....and may be of all other record breaker who run for the outright record.....SCTA record breaker not count.....here, racers are running over decades and in different classes....
They also still do not have a rocket engine. I'm guessing the car won't go to South Africa for at least another 3-4 years.
No the current configuration (jet engine only) is good for 600 may be 650mph (according to Chief Engineer). To break the current 763 record they were planning on running the hybrid rocket as a mono-propellant (i.e. oxidiser only) - possibly next year.
I'd not heard of the Jag V8 possibly being replaced with an electric motor...but just to say Jaguar Land-Rover have a very active electric car development going on at the moment...
-
Great to see Bloodhound running today - 2nd run was over 200mph and all is good...no major issues and great media coverage. In case anyone missed the live youtube stream it's here...actuals runs from about 47mins in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FurX-CjOZ6Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FurX-CjOZ6Y)
About 4000 spectators (supporter club, media and VIPs) - the team put on a well organised event with sponsors and suppliers in a giant temporary exhibition hall. Interesting interviews and videos on a giant TV screen...food, drink, merchandise etc.
Doing it all again on Saturday (2 more runs) for the 'public' day and again on Monday for local school children from around the region.
-
I don't think it could be any prettier!
(Maybe some more graphics thrown at it as it goes by.)
-
Correct, currently they only run the jet engine....the idea is to run the car in this configuration next year in SA to beat the current record from the Thrust SSC and to break the 800 MPH barrier......with the data's of this runs they are getting the base when they run the Jet/Rocket hybrid configuration.....
all other would be tough.....the complexity of the hybrid on a complete new playa in this range of speed makes no sense....
How many runs had the Thrust SSC before he broke the sound barrier (final run was no. 65).....this racer done the most runs a jet record car ever done....and may be of all other record breaker who run for the outright record.....SCTA record breaker not count.....here, racers are running over decades and in different classes....
They also still do not have a rocket engine. I'm guessing the car won't go to South Africa for at least another 3-4 years.
No the current configuration (jet engine only) is good for 600 may be 650mph (according to Chief Engineer). To break the current 763 record they were planning on running the hybrid rocket as a mono-propellant (i.e. oxidiser only) - possibly next year.
I'd not heard of the Jag V8 possibly being replaced with an electric motor...but just to say Jaguar Land-Rover have a very active electric car development going on at the moment...
Jag is out completely I believe. Current auto sponsor is the Chinese company Geely, which owns a big portion of Volvo. Volvo's Polestar performance division is going to be electric only from now on.
-
Sure looks good when it's moving!
Sid.
-
If the Bloodhound is running with this jet engine only 600-650 mph, the aerodynamic had to be a brick... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
the current goal according to Richard Noble is to break the 800 with the current configuration.
if there is now a changing in their mind, it is not published by the team neither a note by Richard about this idea...
...and what mono rocket....if the racer would really go only 600 the mono rocket would be enough to push it above 800?????......makes no sense....
As Andy told, running the rocket is a totally other process to run the racer as with the jet only....if there are a mono or multiple - it makes no different.....
in the other hand, the decision to run one big single rocket or multiple smaller is yet not done.....
The last decision was and is to run after a successful test this week the racer next year in SA......if they getting the necessary sponsoring....
Correct, currently they only run the jet engine....the idea is to run the car in this configuration next year in SA to beat the current record from the Thrust SSC and to break the 800 MPH barrier......with the data's of this runs they are getting the base when they run the Jet/Rocket hybrid configuration.....
all other would be tough.....the complexity of the hybrid on a complete new playa in this range of speed makes no sense....
How many runs had the Thrust SSC before he broke the sound barrier (final run was no. 65).....this racer done the most runs a jet record car ever done....and may be of all other record breaker who run for the outright record.....SCTA record breaker not count.....here, racers are running over decades and in different classes....
They also still do not have a rocket engine. I'm guessing the car won't go to South Africa for at least another 3-4 years.
No the current configuration (jet engine only) is good for 600 may be 650mph (according to Chief Engineer). To break the current 763 record they were planning on running the hybrid rocket as a mono-propellant (i.e. oxidiser only) - possibly next year.
I'd not heard of the Jag V8 possibly being replaced with an electric motor...but just to say Jaguar Land-Rover have a very active electric car development going on at the moment...
-
PorkPie -
If the bloodhoundssc web site is to be believed, the plan for the rocket is:
- Single-engine, mono-propellant ('synthetic rubber' - polybutadiene?) for use up to 800 MPH
- Multi-engine, bi-propellant ('synthetic rubber' fuel + HTP oxidizer) - for use up to 1000 MPH
Obviously if they aren't using HTP then they don't need an oxidizer pump, nor driver for that pump.
I'm not so young that I believe everything that I read on the web, plus plans change. I guess we'll find out when The Plan is in place.
-
I understand what you like to tell....
well....how often changed this rocket solution during the Bloodhound campaign over the last years....
and which Information is the currently correct one....web? notes from inside? press meetings? reports?....who knows....
the single jet engine only solution with the engine they got in the Bloodhound this racer had to be (easily) good in the range of 700+ or close to 800 and over....
I know the SoA Sonic 1, used by Craig Breedlove for the 600+ record in 1965 with the afterburner J79 version (similar to Art Arfons J79)....
have seen the 1996/97 versions of the SoA Sonic Arrow with a similar J79...and the speed it could reach....
and finally I saw a mock up from the Bloodhound - with a much more powerful jet engine....so 600 would be very pessimistic for the Bloodhound....
and the rocket power mono solution picking 200 mph.....somewhere this numbers are mixed up.....
Let's see what the final decision will be.....this project is now going for a so long time....and what's left over from the original concept....and target's???
PorkPie -
If the bloodhoundssc web site is to be believed, the plan for the rocket is:
- Single-engine, mono-propellant ('synthetic rubber' - polybutadiene?) for use up to 800 MPH
- Multi-engine, bi-propellant ('synthetic rubber' fuel + HTP oxidizer) - for use up to 1000 MPH
Obviously if they aren't using HTP then they don't need an oxidizer pump, nor driver for that pump.
I'm not so young that I believe everything that I read on the web, plus plans change. I guess we'll find out when The Plan is in place.
-
Completely agree. Thanks.
The following provided for your enjoyment :)
-
PorkPie -
If the bloodhoundssc web site is to be believed, the plan for the rocket is:
- Single-engine, mono-propellant ('synthetic rubber' - polybutadiene?) for use up to 800 MPH
- Multi-engine, bi-propellant ('synthetic rubber' fuel + HTP oxidizer) - for use up to 1000 MPH
Obviously if they aren't using HTP then they don't need an oxidizer pump, nor driver for that pump.
I'm not so young that I believe everything that I read on the web, plus plans change. I guess we'll find out when The Plan is in place.
Not sure what you're looking at on the Bloodhound website but my understanding is the mono-propellant rocket would be just HTP (no fuel) - the split of HTP through the catalyst generates significant thrust. Bi-propellant is: HTP (oxidiser) and HTPB (fuel).
Mark Chapman (chief engineer) said 600-650mph using the jet only was the target next year - he didn't say that was the theoretical top speed on the jet only.
-
For the media at the event at Newquay the step that the engineering team want to take in South Africa* next year is using the jet and a single nozzle monopropellant rocket (decomposing high test peroxide (HTP) across a 'catalyst' screen). A year later they expect to use a three nozzle rocket cluster system with the EJ200 jet and that is understood to be hybrid rockets of HTP oxidant and HTPB fuel. Not familiar with HTPB? Hydroxyl terminated poly butadiene, which can be cast in various shapes and burns when the very hot decomposing peroxide flows over it.
* - a British reporter is suggesting in his story that a different testing location may be used for reasons of sponsorship and timing.
-
I sit corrected! Thanks.
-
I sit corrected! Thanks.
I did not interview Richard, so what is reported from the event held in Newquay (by others) may show that the BSSC team did not offer a clear message about 2018 & 2019 & 2020. Marketing differing with Engineering? Could my information be inaccurate?
The potential move away from the Jaguar fuel pump engine to an electric drive was sold to the press on the basis of the technology advancements in this area in recent years. [However, as this drive might come from Volvo (through sponsor Geely), the last of the Jaguar 'involvement' would be gone in favour of a current named sponsor].
-
I wonder how you go about getting major international sponsorship for your fuel pump. We might need a new one for our roadster.
-
I wonder how you go about getting major international sponsorship for your fuel pump. We might need a new one for our roadster.
Let me know if you do Stan, I'm international! :-D
Sid.
-
That's great Sid. How'd you like to sponsor a fuel pump? :cheers:
Wayno