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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: bbarn on February 15, 2017, 07:50:57 AM



Title: Salt updates
Post by: bbarn on February 15, 2017, 07:50:57 AM
Anyone been to the flats recently? Any updates on conditions or insights/comparisons to previous February visits?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Glen on February 15, 2017, 11:26:16 AM
I heard they we pumping, no other updates.



Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stainless1 on February 15, 2017, 06:27:22 PM
I heard they we pumping, no other updates.



Which direction   :x


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on February 16, 2017, 10:11:46 AM
Polarity matters!  :x :x :x


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: vintageracecar on February 18, 2017, 03:09:58 AM
Be better if the pumps are not running yet.
Doesn't make a lot of sense, pumping all that good Salt Brine on top of Inches of standing water.
You don't want to delude it anymore. Bad enough you can't pump it above a 17% salt concentration.
Believe that was the number before the salt brine comes apart and can't be pumped any longer.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on February 18, 2017, 06:44:33 AM
The water is dissolving the salt taking it down below---17% brine would minimize the amount that is dissolved---we will continue to loose surface salt until the water table below is saturated also.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on February 18, 2017, 07:55:35 AM
---we will continue to loose surface salt until the water table below is saturated also......


.... and not until they stop drawing that water table down from their alluvial wells just to the west of the salt.  They need to find a different source for their pumping water.

In addition ...

Quote
1979
U.S. Geological Survey and BLM study “Hydrology and Surface Morphology of the Bonneville Salt Flats and Pilot Valley Playa, Utah”; study concludes: “Weather cycles may partly explain changes on the Bonneville salt crust. But the activities of man, such as withdrawing brine and constructing surface-drainage barriers, have altered the hydrologic environment and have had a profound effect on the salt crust. Water-level data indicate that during 1976 brine was moving through the shallow-brine aquifer on the Salt Flats from the area of salt crust toward all areas of manmade discharge (brine-collection ditches east and south of the salt crust and alluvial-fan wells west of the salt crust).”  Study also says: “Elimination of brine withdrawals from the ditch system north of the interstate highway would eliminate a yearly loss of about 680 acre-feet of brine and 270,000 tons of salt.”

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,14015.msg279716/topicseen.html#msg279716

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: manta22 on February 18, 2017, 11:20:18 AM
Thanks, Sumner. This study shows that even back in 1979 the BLM knew how to minimize the loss of salt crust. Malfeasance, payoff....something was going on. --and the people involved should be fired or in jail!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Roadster on February 28, 2017, 10:40:14 PM

    I vote for jail.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Texican on March 02, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
Anyone been to the flats recently? Any updates on conditions or insights/comparisons to previous February visits?

https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g57164-d146215-i68809126-Bonneville_Salt_Flats-Wendover_Utah.html
At our USFRA meeting Wed. nite; We were told 12" deep at 2 1/2 mile.

With more rain coming; may still be a lake in May.
Jim


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on March 02, 2017, 11:24:26 AM
Deep snow pack in the high country over the winter & warm temps recently with a lot of rain created a large runoff problem & there's still plenty of snow pack left. Hwy 30 still closed.
  Sid.
 http://fox13now.com/2017/02/08/flood-waters-close-roads-near-elko/


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: FoundSoul on May 17, 2017, 10:58:57 AM
Any update on salt conditions currently?  Trying to decide if I should start packing a car up here soon.....  Have an immense workload right now, tempting to sit this one out unless it looks really good.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: bbarn on May 17, 2017, 12:33:49 PM
I see it is an El Nino this year. Wonder what that will do for precip @ B'ville?

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/west-wendover-nv/89883/weather-warnings/2083546 (http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/west-wendover-nv/89883/weather-warnings/2083546)
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/west-wendover-nv/89883/weather-forecast/2083546 (http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/west-wendover-nv/89883/weather-forecast/2083546)


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on May 17, 2017, 02:22:10 PM
I just checked.

It's still May in Utah.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Peter Jack on May 17, 2017, 02:32:42 PM
I just checked.

It's still May in Utah.

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on May 17, 2017, 06:17:02 PM
It's snowing here today.  :x
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Glen on May 17, 2017, 06:23:22 PM
wet on the salt,no change,


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: bearingburner on May 17, 2017, 07:59:39 PM
It snowed around here Sunday, 92* today.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jacksoni on May 17, 2017, 09:55:39 PM
If you look at the photo posted on the facebook page with a guy standing at the end of the road, there is a lot of water. But off in the distance toward the dike there is a line of white, which I take to be exposed salt. if so not so bad. We have driven through that much water to the courses in the past. What it looks like to me. Others with interpretation?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on May 18, 2017, 10:44:43 AM
It snowed around here Sunday, 92* today.
That's not Wendover Utah right? It can't be 92 in Wendover & 32 here in Lava! :|
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: bearingburner on May 18, 2017, 12:13:00 PM
Western Mass.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on May 18, 2017, 01:07:11 PM
What's the weather going to be in Suwanee on August 12th this year?  Any chance of showers the day before?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on May 18, 2017, 01:39:11 PM
What's the weather going to be in Suwanee on August 12th this year?  Any chance of showers the day before?




  Hard to tell I cant find that location in my Farmers Almanac    :-D


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: bbarn on May 19, 2017, 07:02:16 AM
What's the weather going to be in Suwanee on August 12th this year?  Any chance of showers the day before?

Partly cloudy with a chance of sarcasm.  :-D


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: FoundSoul on May 19, 2017, 09:24:27 AM
What's the weather going to be in Suwanee on August 12th this year?  Any chance of showers the day before?

I didn't ask about the weather... at all...


Chances are August 12th in Suwanee will be 97*F and 20% chance of afternoon thundershowers.  The day before will be the same. 


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: thundersalt on May 23, 2017, 10:09:06 AM
Brady Nish‎ post these on FB a few days ago. Looks pretty good to me in photos


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: rouse on May 23, 2017, 12:01:35 PM
WOW! Thank for the update.

Rouse


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on May 23, 2017, 11:13:40 PM
 :evil: where is the PROPSTER :?   this may well be the year for the PROPSTER  :-o


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: BobDcuda on May 27, 2017, 05:09:24 PM
See the new video from Lands End by Mayor Mike, posted today on SCTA's Facebook page. Looks promising....


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: gande on June 05, 2017, 11:16:25 PM

Thurs June 1  No Water. Too wet to drive on.

Gary


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: floydjer on June 08, 2017, 12:10:29 PM
:evil: where is the PROPSTER :?   this may well be the year for the PROPSTER  :-o
careful Sparky....One more mention of ol` whirlygig`s name and he appears.... :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: RichFox on June 08, 2017, 01:06:03 PM
I think he may be selling his ride to chris.giles


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: gande on June 11, 2017, 12:48:35 PM
 
Link to Bonneville Salt Flats weather station.  http://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base_dyn.cgi?stn=BFLAT&unit=0&timetype=LOCAL

Link to webcam  http://meso1.chpc.utah.edu/station_cameras/bflat_cam/bflat_cam_current.jpg

Gary


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sporty Dan on June 11, 2017, 09:15:02 PM
The view from the web cam sure looks promising.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: BobDcuda on June 14, 2017, 12:08:33 PM
Where exactly is that webcam located?  Looks near Lands End, or maybe out on one of the dikes...??


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Calkins on June 14, 2017, 02:53:16 PM
Someone on Facebook said near the weather station, where ever that is...


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: thundersalt on June 14, 2017, 05:54:32 PM
I would guess north of the dyke by course 3 and 4 staging


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Calkins on June 14, 2017, 07:36:45 PM
I would guess north of the dyke by course 3 and 4 staging


That is exactly what I thought, as well.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Eddieschopshop on June 14, 2017, 07:55:14 PM
looks awefully close to the mountains,  my guess is to the west of the end of the long course. 


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ratpatrol66 on June 14, 2017, 08:41:16 PM
Where ever the camera is it sure looks good out there!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 16, 2017, 10:04:11 AM
I'm heading down to the salt tomorrow to see what the winter runoff & MINING have left us.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on June 16, 2017, 10:51:56 AM
looking forward to your Objective report Sid!!


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on June 17, 2017, 09:13:41 AM
looking forward to your Objective report Sid!!

What Sparky said! And please don't moon the camera Sid!  :-o :x :-D


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 17, 2017, 09:34:45 AM
looking forward to your Objective report Sid!!

What Sparky said! And please don't moon the camera Sid!  :-o :x :-D
Might!! :-D
The trusty-rusty van will be on the road this morning. :mrgreen: :dhorse:
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on June 17, 2017, 03:59:07 PM
 Safe travels Sid looking forward to the report.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 19, 2017, 01:02:34 PM
Two threads one reply.
  Sid.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,16706.msg304544.html#new


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: gnomenator on July 10, 2017, 08:35:33 AM
Morning all, any reports from t&t participants on the condition of the Salt or how the track held up? I checked USFRA but no reports there . Here's hoping for a great season and good salt to all  :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on July 10, 2017, 10:27:37 AM
Morning all, any reports from t&t participants on the condition of the Salt or how the track held up? I checked USFRA but no reports there . Here's hoping for a great season and good salt to all  :cheers: :cheers:

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/board,38.0.html

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: gnomenator on July 10, 2017, 09:31:41 PM
Thanks Sumner!  :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Old Scrambler on December 12, 2017, 12:10:40 PM
I can't find the save-the-salt thread..........news today on Yahoo Financial about POTASH mining expansion at Blair, Utah...........that's our neighbors to the south of I-80.........


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: velocity on December 16, 2017, 07:06:55 AM
Would you please post the link to the Yahoo financial article?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: **RP** on December 19, 2017, 11:58:39 AM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-potash-stocks-consider-buying-023000680.html

This was the only article I could find and it sounded worse......Intepid selling salt!


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on December 19, 2017, 03:54:02 PM
So Im wondering what is going on with this save the salt stuff. Seems like its been really quiet. How about a focus on return the salt which in reality would be saving the salt. Yea I know what a concept.  :-o


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on December 19, 2017, 05:51:09 PM
Yup - they ARE selling it . . .

http://www.intrepidpotash.com/salt/products/

If Intrepid flops, then the question becomes, who mans the pumps?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: joea on December 19, 2017, 06:20:24 PM
the irony speaks for itself...the racer group...cleaning salt off bottom of vehicles...so
as to help preserve the salt flats...while the mining companies haul it off in tens of thousands of tons..
and also sell it off in rail cars...


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on December 19, 2017, 07:31:26 PM
. . . year after year.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stainless1 on December 19, 2017, 10:15:11 PM
But Wait... All the years of BLM and University Studies can't figure out where the surface is going....




Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: will6er on December 19, 2017, 10:25:52 PM
I saw a recent photo on the site (I forget which thread it is on ). It looked to me like there was dry land behind the poster. Is Intrepid pumping? It seems like there should be nothing but water at this time

Will Willis
#6302


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on December 20, 2017, 10:54:00 AM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-potash-stocks-consider-buying-023000680.html

This was the only article I could find and it sounded worse......Intepid selling salt!

If one reads to the bottom of that article it sounds like Intrepid's days might possibly be numbered.  I'm thinking they probably don't want to put money into pumping if they don't have to,

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 20, 2017, 05:13:45 PM
Like I've said many times,"the pumping will only continue until their profit margin get's too low to continue". When the money is gone, so will the mining. Meantime it's just a one way money machine.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on December 20, 2017, 05:36:42 PM
Looks like its time for STS to get busy quickly to bring suit against the possibility of Intepid shutting down, selling salt and anything else that hinders the mission purpose of save the salt. Being nice has gotten no where and nothing has been accomplished of any magnitude to show any positive results. Stop being push overs and do whats needed use the funds many of us have donated and get serious about the mission.   :x


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on December 20, 2017, 07:53:31 PM
From what (little) I know, when an entity stops mining, they're supposed to return the "land" to what it was before they started. And they post bonds to ensure that.  And then that particular branch of some larger entity goes bankrupt.  And then nothing happens.  Seems like the table is stacked for large industrial and mining concerns.  Anyone else notice this even more lately?  {I bet there's coal(!) under Mt. Rushmore!}


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 21, 2017, 11:50:14 AM
The BLM says there is no change to the salt flats.
What do you expect to see when the Bowen report comes out next year? I expect to see no "conclusive evidence".
Funding of the Bowen report was paid for by Intrepid.
Is that report designed to coincide with mining's end on Bonneville Public Land?
When they walk away, the most they'll likely have to do is block off the drains & canals at the freeway.
  Sid.



Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on December 21, 2017, 02:05:06 PM
From what (little) I know, when an entity stops mining, they're supposed to return the "land" to what it was before they started...

The lease agreement does not require them to return "any salt" only do basically what Sid said plus, I believe, plug off any wells.  I've posted links to it in the past in this thread or one of the other ones on the salt's condition,

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on December 21, 2017, 08:56:37 PM
From what (little) I know, when an entity stops mining, they're supposed to return the "land" to what it was before they started...

The lease agreement does not require them to return "any salt" only do basically what Sid said plus, I believe, plug off any wells.  I've posted links to it in the past in this thread or one of the other ones on the salt's condition,

Sumner






    Gee whats STS and Velocity have to say about all of this. The salt was saved for Inteped and looks like it may never be returned sure would be nice to hear what STS is doing if anything.     


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on December 22, 2017, 12:08:20 AM
ummmm Kemo Sabe---- Sid "Speak with Straight Tongue"


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on December 22, 2017, 09:59:38 AM
Topic should be renamed, "Salt downgrades!"  :cry:  :dhorse: :cry: :dhorse: :cry: :dhorse:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: **RP** on December 23, 2017, 10:41:22 AM
Looking at the SEMA website I found this in an article about the dry salt laydown at the end of the road from 2014.

“The Coalition is now eager to take the next step this summer by laying down a two-mile strip of salt the width of a race track,” said Ron Main with the Speed Demon team (the world’s fastest piston-driven vehicle).  “Pending BLM approval, the test project will confirm that we can repair areas where it’s needed and help preserve and protect our national treasure—the Bonneville Salt Flats—for our future generations.” 

Should have had 6 miles of good track by now.  Did BLM not approve this?  Also noted SEMA is in Washington DC.....connected to the Swamp?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on December 23, 2017, 12:19:15 PM
Should have had 6 miles of good track by now.  Did BLM not approve this?  Also noted SEMA is in Washington DC.....connected to the Swamp?

If there's any draining going on, it's at Bonneville, not in Washington.

I'm looking at the local level.

Here in Milwaukee, we use literally shiploads of salt on our streets during the winter months.  I want to find out where the city's suppliers are getting it.  They're based in Ohio, and I've been told that the source is Michigan, but I can't confirm that - yet.  I'd like to be able to confirm that and propose a moratorium on the city's use of salt extracted from western Utah.

http://wuwm.com/post/salt-keeps-milwaukees-streets-safe-drive-wintertime

It might be the last resort to affect change - by going after Intrepid's wallet.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Ron Gibson on December 23, 2017, 12:41:40 PM
Any salt hauled in to make a race track or ramp at the end of the road, as was done, will be disolved and dispersed over the flats the first time the salt flats floods. Basic improvement = not enough to see.

Ron


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on December 23, 2017, 03:03:55 PM
Somewhere, looking thru documents a couple of years ago, I found mention of a separate Intrepid Salt company.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on December 23, 2017, 03:10:22 PM
Jim, having watched them for a number of years - I actually bought some stock in order to get the stockholder's report - this is the first I've seen them openly advertising salt -

http://www.intrepidpotash.com/salt/products/


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WhiskersMagee on December 27, 2017, 12:36:05 PM
Is there any chance to move the speedway to a differentt location that has better salt?  Sorry for my ignorance on the subject:)


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: DallasV on December 27, 2017, 02:49:44 PM
Is there any chance to move the speedway to a differentt location that has better salt?  Sorry for my ignorance on the subject:)
This response is only if you mean moving the speedway at Bonneville. The course is at a different location every year. The days of "this is where the course is every year i.e. international course" are long gone. Each year a team of experts from each venue (SCTA, USFRA, Cook, Motorcycle meet) go out to the salt and spend many hours/days probing, driving, testing, sample dragging to find the best salt available to run on. The salt that is available migrates from year to year. That salt diminishes each year making it harder and harder to find a safe course. It becomes much more difficult for the SCTA group because of the amount of entries requires multiple courses. It is also becoming exponentially more difficult to find even 1 long course for high speed cars. 9 miles of decent salt are optimal for a long course. in the last few years it has become almost impossible to find even a good 7. Hope this helped - Dallas


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on December 27, 2017, 04:57:25 PM
It surely helps -- especially from you, who actually knows something.

(Although it sounds like, "You've only got less than 30 days left" from your doctor.  Great to know, but hard to take.)


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WhiskersMagee on December 27, 2017, 10:01:54 PM
I realize that the last few years there has been poor salt conditions. what i ment by move is, away from wendover to an area closer to salt lake.  There must be an area that could handle the lay out?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: RichFox on December 28, 2017, 11:17:05 AM
A lot of people have been looking for some years now, without success. That's why people are going to Australia and Bolivia these days. Seems like the other side of the Silver mountains would be easier to get to than Bolivia. But what do I know? I have never been to either.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 28, 2017, 03:20:48 PM
The BLM sold mining rights to the salt on the north side of Silver Island Mountains some 3 or 4 years ago a Canadian company.
To the east beyond Floating Mountain is part of Eagle Range, USAF.
To the south of the railroad is the Intrepid mining operation that is sucking Bonneville Salt Flats dry.
The only other area is north of the Knolls exit on I-80 but that was sucked dry by Mag Corp in the early 80's.
  Sid. 


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: JoeRider677 on February 20, 2018, 05:09:18 PM
Are there any updates on the salt or where things stand for 2018, all I have been hearing is crickets......


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jacksoni on February 20, 2018, 06:18:45 PM
pretty much always at this time of year the salt is under water. Won't know anything until maybe May-June and someone is able to walk on it.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 20, 2018, 06:43:18 PM
Jack, are you saying that in May or June we'll find someone that can walk on the water?  WoW -- this I gotta see.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Glen on February 20, 2018, 09:28:30 PM
Been a lot of rain in that area as well as snow.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jacksoni on February 21, 2018, 07:16:08 AM
Jack, are you saying that in May or June we'll find someone that can walk on the water?  WoW -- this I gotta see.


SSS I think we both have about an equal chance..... :roll:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: RichFox on February 21, 2018, 10:53:58 AM
Bonneville today. Been looking pretty dry.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: nrhs sales on February 21, 2018, 11:20:19 AM
Bonneville today. Been looking pretty dry.


That looks darn good :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on February 21, 2018, 11:26:18 AM
Looks like the golf ball effect is alive & thriving on the Bonneville Goat Track to me.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: comet on February 21, 2018, 11:32:19 AM
I hope I don't sound to naive here. But , do we not need the salt to be under water for a while. Is it the annual flooding that brings more brine and so more salt to the salt surface?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 21, 2018, 11:56:49 AM
Oh that it were so.  No, the annual rainfall does more like dissolve some of the salt on the surface and carry it deeper into the lakebed where it can hang around, and the remaining salt on the surface is for racing.

But - defeat that cycle by withdrawing brine from wells under the salt, so that the salt goes down the tube instead of onto the race track - and Viola (okay, over a few decades), crappy salt.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: comet on February 23, 2018, 08:49:11 AM
ahhh, right. Okay.
I always thought that the rainfall kind of leveled the playing field a bit and redistributed the salt. Of course I was completely avoiding the fact that it is getting sucked out from beneath. But that won't be the mining of course, that will be gravity. It sucks you know.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: MRK on February 23, 2018, 11:26:45 AM
ahhh, right. Okay.
I always thought that the rainfall kind of leveled the playing field a bit and redistributed the salt. Of course I was completely avoiding the fact that it is getting sucked out from beneath. But that won't be the mining of course, that will be gravity. It sucks you know.


"I drink your milkshake" - Daniel Plainview


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on February 23, 2018, 04:41:38 PM
ahhh, right. Okay.
I always thought that the rainfall kind of leveled the playing field a bit and redistributed the salt. Of course I was completely avoiding the fact that it is getting sucked out from beneath. But that won't be the mining of course, that will be gravity. It sucks you know.

Actually Mate, the "sucking from beneath" is also the mining company. They pump from the water table under the sat flats as well as flowing off surface water from the top through a canal system. When the surface water from winter run-off is low like this year, pumping water & flooding it from the mine side of the freeway allows them to continue flowing salt slurry to the mine. Initially the racing community was under the impression that the annual pumping back program would help build the salt content but logic has shown that without putting the plug in the drain hole it just goes right back to the mine again & taking Bonneville salt with it. This will likely continue until the mining company profit from product falls off at which time they will walk away.
Bonneville is public land that is under the control of the Bureau of Land Management, the BLM. Unfortunately they have lost sight of what they are supposed to be doing (managing public lands) while collecting millions of dollars in lease fees from the mining company & other users like racers etc. The whole thing is a dirty deceitful mess with no accountability while Bonneville dies a slow death.
Pull the plug in a bath tub, fill it with dirt then stick a hose in the shallow end, all you'll end up with is a dirt stained tub.

  Sid.
 


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on February 23, 2018, 05:30:16 PM
Haven't heard from Land Mass lately . . .


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Ron Gibson on February 23, 2018, 06:32:19 PM
Stan
Don't you know you're not supposed to poke a sleeping bear :? :?

Ron


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on February 23, 2018, 07:24:27 PM
Haven't heard from Land Mass lately . . .
I got a Christmas card! :-o
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jdincau on February 25, 2018, 10:25:08 AM
ISS view of the flats
https://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/91000/91765/ISS053-E-134166_lrg.jpg


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on February 25, 2018, 01:30:12 PM
In that view, north is down south is up. Water at center left is Great Salt lake & to the left of that is SLC. Just right of center there is a green water square, that's one of the Intrepid ponds. Just below that to the left is Silver Island Mts, Bonneville & Floating Mt.
I know that country like the back of my hand but it took me a minute to get oriented.  :|
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 25, 2018, 04:08:18 PM
Thanks for the "green water square" hint.  I was stumped 'til I found it.  Nice view, hey?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: comet on February 26, 2018, 03:20:21 AM
Hi Sid.
Yeah, I realise the flooding of the surface is more for the benefit of Intrepid and its shareholders than for any racer, or for that matter any future generation. My comment about gravity was flippancy but perhaps not delivered very well. It truly is a shame that the BLM can not see what is going on in front of their faces. Hidden in plain sight? or just pure greed? I doubt we will know until it is far too late.
But we will make our pilgrimage again this August and hope for the best.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on February 26, 2018, 08:30:33 AM
..... It truly is a shame that the BLM can not see what is going on in front of their faces. Hidden in plain sight? or just pure greed? ..

The BLM (land management) for as long as I've lived in the west (60's) has been all about managing the land and not really concerned with protecting it.  To them they probably see mining year around as a job well done vs. protecting the flats for some mere racers that only use it a couple weeks out of the year  :cry: :cry:  Which brings in more income to the government?  Not us...

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: comet on February 26, 2018, 09:46:35 AM
That is a pretty good point Sumner. We are all thinking of them as BLP - Bureau of Land Protection, but yes, all they are actually doing is managing it and not protecting it. Managing it = bring in the $$ and not worry about the future.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on February 26, 2018, 11:14:49 AM
Like I've said before, the BLM have lost sight of the real reason they are there & that is to protect & preserve public lands. Instead they obviously see Bonneville as a cash cow bringing in Millions of dollars in revenue then getting their nose out of joint when Joe Public tries to make them accountable.
Like somebody said to me a while back when I was talking about this, "welcome to America!".
  Sid. 


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jdincau on February 26, 2018, 11:37:50 AM
Sid,
     I believe as you do that the BLM is inept. To be fair their charter in 1946 when the land office and the grazing service were combined was to manage timber, mineral and grazing leases on public lands. The idea of preservation came along in the 70's.
Jim


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Harold Bettes on February 26, 2018, 08:03:48 PM
Come on Folks! :roll:

The BLM is literally the Bureau of Land MIS-management. That is what they do and as in any bureaucracy, they are only interested in self perpetuating schemes that either gain them more power or more money or both. I have been told many times that my approach and rhetoric are too harsh and we should all just cool it and let the folks that like to go to the BLM's luncheons and get togethers speak for all of us that want the salt flats restored......Well, folks what has been done has not been effective and that much should be obvious to anyone with even a modicum of reasoning and analysis. The multiple bureaucracies of the various government entities are supposed to work for us not the other way around. :-o
 
Get active on your local political level and hold the folks accountable. Otherwise they will think they have the upper hand from your inaction. 8-)

Time to get serious and get much more vocal and demand that it is time to make the salt great again! :lol:

Regards to All, :cheers:
HB2 :-)


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: n49racer on March 17, 2018, 03:12:17 PM
Is there, Will there be, Has there been pumping this year. It is mandated isn't it?

ted :dhorse:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Dynoroom on March 17, 2018, 07:42:47 PM
Is there, Will there be, Has there been pumping this year. It is mandated isn't it?

ted :dhorse:

No, it is not mandated. The situation is much worse than most would believe...   :-(


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: NArias3 on March 17, 2018, 11:31:04 PM
Haven't heard from Land Mass lately . . .

"Land Mass"?  That's not too cool.

Nick 3rd.



Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Buickguy3 on March 20, 2018, 08:10:13 AM
   I just saw this picture on the Aussie Land Speed site. Apparently no shortage of Salt down under yet. The mining companies haven't moved in as of yet.
  Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on March 22, 2018, 06:32:06 PM
How long has it been since we were told that our opinions didn't matter.  We were hurting the efforts to rehabilitate the salt.  We must all join together to have a powerful, unified voice.  And that's the answer to making progress.  And we need to listen to only one spokesperson.

Maybe a quarterly progress report would be nice -- even here where a lot of us congregate.



Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jdincau on March 22, 2018, 06:45:54 PM
just go to
http://savethesalt.org/
oh wait it hasn't been updated since October of 2017


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on March 22, 2018, 08:39:07 PM
just go to
http://savethesalt.org/
oh wait it hasn't been updated since October of 2017




   Maybe STS is taking some time off   :-o  after all the work thats been accomplished  :-(


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on March 23, 2018, 12:11:29 AM
Part of the problem is that we're preaching to the choir.  

None of us are particularly good at creating a sense of immediacy in people outside of the LSR community.  Save the Salt and the Utah Alliance are doing what they can - but at the end of the day, the average taxpayer doesn't care.

When I wear my "Save the Salt" T shirt, most people think I'm advocating for dietetic research.

When I say, "The Utah Alliance", people think I'm in support of free cattle grazing on public lands.

STS and UA are well intended and poorly marketed outside of the LSR community.

And it's a tough sell.

Name a politician who would openly advocate for something that, at face value, is as ridiculous sounding as retuning one of the most common minerals on earth from the south side of I-80 to the north side of I-80, into a high deseart basin 5 miles from a frontage road lined with casinos?

To a non-racer, that's either a waste of taxpayer dollars or government overreach.

We get more fertilizer out of Washington than Intrepid will ever extract out of the Wendover facility.

There are no clear guidelines as to how to manage a salt flat, despite proven engineering methods to denude one.

And at the end of the day, it's all conjecture until the study is complete.

Few racers trust environmentalists, but because of Bonneville, I am both, and most of the drag racers and dirt racers I know think I'm in league with Satan.

And if they're under 40 years of age, Bonneville is either the car their grandpa drove, or maybe the guy from Downton Abbey.

I'll race at Bonneville when I can - but I'm building for Gairdner.




Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on March 23, 2018, 11:58:17 AM
The result of the U of U study by Brenda Bowen is due out this year & I don't expect so see anything more than inconclusive evidence from that.
There was some rain come through there yesterday last night so I presume Intrepid will fire up the pumps to add to that for more product removal.
  Sid. 


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: JR'S PAPA on March 23, 2018, 01:28:03 PM
Every time the B.L.M. or the legislature issue a press release or statement about Bonneville, the local, vocal re-pliers to the articles or newscasts are 90% naysayers with opinions that all sound like, "...who cares about a bunch of greasy hot rodding miscreants, with a pack of Camels rolled up in their t-shirt sleeve, locked in adolescence with a high school, macho, stuck in the '60s mentality or rich corporate teams that use the Salt once or twice a year to make commercials.....". Really, it's like yelling at your dog. They hear you, but they just can't care to understand.

Some how losing most of the Salt Flats and losing most of any of the National Monuments (ie: Bear's Ears-Grand Staircase), to make a few jobs and fewer more wealthy; and stealing from all the generations that follow us that will never see those special sunrises of Speedweek or WOS, or smell the nitro on a crisp morning, or share the joy of a new Red Hat, or watch someone repack a chute, or enjoy the brotherhood and sisterhood of sharing the moment, day or week on the Salt, or Native-Americans losing any part of their heritage, is truly tragic. We are all in this, just from a little different prospective. We all need to be aware of each other; fighting the same beast with different means. Maybe, somehow we will learn how close all of our seemingly seperate concerns really are.

I do not know how or if we even can get, some of the American people or Utahans in particular to care, just a little, about someone else's ox that is being gored. I fear it may be too late. Our passion is now moving to Australia and Bolivia, and losing the passionate backbone of the sport, because we can't shout loud enough to get the dog to understand! I truly hope we can find an answer.      


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: manta22 on March 23, 2018, 02:02:08 PM
The result of the U of U study by Brenda Bowen is due out this year & I don't expect so see anything more than inconclusive evidence from that.
There was some rain come through there yesterday last night so I presume Intrepid will fire up the pumps to add to that for more product removal.
  Sid.  

Sid;

Brenda Bowen, the Smirking Scientist, will no doubt conclude her report with the statement that "more research is needed." This is how it works... they are supported by grants to do studies; if the study ever concludes, the money dries up. Much of "science" these days is hardly more than a 1930s - style WPA "make-work" project.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on March 23, 2018, 02:26:42 PM
 :cheers:  but only of one produces the "correct" results


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: thundersalt on April 26, 2018, 10:23:14 AM
For those who do not use Facebook

From USFRA

"Salt status report from USFRA.

Utah Salt Flats Racing Association
17 hrs
April 24. 2018 our club president Dennis Sullivan and Larry Volk took a trip to the salt. Here is the report:
Tuesday Larry and my self went out to the salt flats to see what we may have for courses this year. Larry and I agreed the the description of the Bonneville Salt Flats is this: smooth as a table, dry as a bone, hard as a rock and thin as paper. The salt is as smooth as I have seen in years. We drove my truck at 90 MPH the full 5 miles on SCTA course 1. There is NO water any where on the salt and my tires picked up very little salt and left no tracks as we drove around. We could not kick through the salt with our shoes and was hard to stick a
screwdriver through the crust. The parts of the courses on the north end that were dirt last year are now covered with salt, but it is only
1/4" thick. We did not see any large potholes or patches of mud showing any where. As to what kind of courses we will have only time and
putting a drag on the salt will let us know. Larry and I feel that we can find a GOOD 3 mile course for the test and tune. What happens
after that only time, weather and course prep will tell. See you on the Salt!"


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: nrhs sales on April 26, 2018, 10:43:31 AM
At least some good news for a change.  hopefully it stays dry and no big rains come in right before the meets  start.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on April 26, 2018, 04:02:17 PM
 :-D  :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jdincau on April 26, 2018, 04:03:48 PM
Paper thin and 1/4 inch thick?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Bob Drury on April 26, 2018, 04:47:08 PM
  ... so after the first 300 + blown car runs it to the five the long course will become another short course.  Just fu*king peachy.
                                                                                   One Run, out......................................... :x


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: n49racer on April 26, 2018, 09:39:18 PM
Great to hear the salt shows some promise. I will be there for Speedweek ready to race and to do anything I can to help. Thank you to Larry for the update

Ted :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: thundersalt on April 27, 2018, 03:48:02 PM
sharing


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Scott on May 09, 2018, 07:14:56 AM
Just read this article this morning. It will be interesting to see what impact this could cause.  SB

https://elkodaily.com/mining/torq-acquires-the-speedway-in-utah-begins-exploration/article_860cc5c1-9e4b-5eda-9499-56b102433f1c.html


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on May 09, 2018, 08:17:07 AM
If there's "Gold in them thar hills", given the lay of the land, it's likely we'll see the salt covered with tailings in short order.

Get your runs in now . . . If we can't win against potash extraction, we haven't got a prayer against foreign investors prospecting for gold.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: mtiberio on May 09, 2018, 08:57:50 AM
Just read this article this morning. It will be interesting to see what impact this could cause.  SB

https://elkodaily.com/mining/torq-acquires-the-speedway-in-utah-begins-exploration/article_860cc5c1-9e4b-5eda-9499-56b102433f1c.html

Fractions of a gram of gold per ton of rock. Margins must be quite thin.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Bob Drury on May 09, 2018, 12:56:37 PM
  One must wonder just When that drilling might occur... maybe in August thru October?  If it ever happens I wonder if they will be required to leave the Salt Flats in "pristine" condition (as in no dirt piles, debris on any kind and ruts left by equipment, etc.) as We have done for years (except for the late, ungreat, Boyd Coddington fiacso).
  I am sure the BLM folks will keep Us abreast ASAP........... 
   Maybe We should consider a armed takeover of the Salt.   Just make sure to keep all weapons high and dry (and holstered).
                                                                                "One Run" Bob, out.......................................................


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on May 09, 2018, 03:56:23 PM
Jeesus, what next, nuclear fuc#!ng testing!!~
Instead of all the money & effort put into saving the salt we probably should have organized our selves & leased the place! Torq Mining just signed on the dotted line for $25k.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on May 09, 2018, 04:02:15 PM
Jeesus, what next, nuclear fuc#!ng testing!!~
Instead of all the money & effort put into saving the salt we probably should have organized our selves & leased the place! Torq Mining just signed on the dotted line for $25k.
  Sid.

About the cost of a cheap Bonneville car . . .


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on May 09, 2018, 06:11:58 PM
I seriously doubt that our esteemed Secretary of the Interior would allow anything bad happen to the salt flats.  I know he's pre-occupied with some bullsh*t about renting a 2-story building a couple of blocks from the White House for $50/night whenever he needed it.  I've heard he got it thru Trivago.

I don't see how defacing these hillsides would put your knickers in a cramp.  Nobody lives there, there's no beach, no mall, what the phuck!


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on May 09, 2018, 08:36:58 PM
maybe they are planning on pumping the tailings on to the MUD FLATS to cover the mud


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on May 09, 2018, 10:45:55 PM
What ever "Regional Scale Structures" are, the map shows them coming right out on the salt & actually crossing the road at the bend. It also states "Torq aquires the speedway"!
Does Save The Salt, The Utah Alliance, SCTA or USFRA have any info on this?
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on May 09, 2018, 11:04:55 PM
What ever "Regional Scale Structures" are, the map shows them coming right out on the salt & actually crossing the road at the bend.

Fine - they can dump the trailings straight into Intrepid's collection trenches.

Does Save The Salt, The Utah Alliance, SCTA or USFRA have any info on this?

 :?



Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jdincau on May 09, 2018, 11:23:46 PM
It looks like the "speedway" project is defined by the blue outlined area atop the hills north east of town. A quick Google search finds "regional scale structures" are faults or discontinuities that may contain mineralization.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on May 10, 2018, 09:14:17 AM
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/salt-update-1.jpg)

I'm guessing the project's name is Speedway and the lease area is the blue area that is defined on the map,

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on May 10, 2018, 10:34:04 AM

I'm guessing the project's name is Speedway and the lease area is the blue area that is defined on the map


I find it irksome that they run with branding established by 100 + years of LSR in order to potentially threaten what we do.

Salt in the wound, as it were.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Ron Gibson on May 10, 2018, 11:56:33 AM
I envision lots and lots of mining dirt being washed on to the salt every time it rains. But maybe that's the optimism I have after watching the past.

Ron


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on May 10, 2018, 04:47:14 PM
Eventually a new dry lake bed?   :-o :x :cry: :cry:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Glen on May 10, 2018, 06:30:47 PM
It looks like the next few days will bring rain to all of the Wendover and to the east. Could be heave at times.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on May 10, 2018, 08:36:56 PM
Not sure if this was posted earlier but Intrepid has pumped 400,000 tons of salt brine this winter,

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Speed Limit 1000 on May 10, 2018, 08:57:51 PM
On or off the race track?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on May 10, 2018, 11:02:43 PM
On or off the race track?

LOL. :-D  Either way it's still going down the drain.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: sofadriver on May 10, 2018, 11:33:09 PM
Not sure if this was posted earlier but Intrepid has pumped 400,000 tons of salt brine this winter,

Sumner

Just curious if anyone knows how much salt is actually in 400,000 tons of brine.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: mtiberio on May 11, 2018, 06:04:34 AM
Not sure if this was posted earlier but Intrepid has pumped 400,000 tons of salt brine this winter,

Sumner

Just curious if anyone knows how much salt is actually in 400,000 tons of brine.

Table salt solution at 70 degrees can hold ~25%. That’s a max


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on May 11, 2018, 08:54:26 AM
On or off the race track?


If they are still using the system used in the past then...

(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/17-salt-blm-5.jpg)

... it is deposited just north of the interstate by a manifold as shown above.  The only way that it gets further north down onto our courses is if the flats are flooded during the winter and the water carries it north.  It could go about anywhere depending on the flooding and the wind direction.  Not sure there was a lot of natural flooding this year?

If the 25% is accurate 100,000 tons would not do much in such a large area,

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: mtiberio on May 11, 2018, 11:46:49 AM
100,000 tons of a saturated brine solution covers one acre in salt to the depth of .4” once the water is gone


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: salt on May 11, 2018, 02:55:17 PM
We'd need about 20 million tons of salt to put an inch on our race courses . . .

Willi


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on May 11, 2018, 04:37:19 PM
We'd need about 20 million tons of salt to put an inch on our race courses . . .

Willi
With a plug in the drain hole!!! :x
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jacksoni on June 05, 2018, 07:42:40 AM
looks like someone went out to check the camera: http://meso1.chpc.utah.edu/station_cameras/bflat_cam/bflat_cam_current.jpg


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: NathanStewart on June 05, 2018, 10:44:24 AM
No selfie?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: thundersalt on June 13, 2018, 10:34:11 AM
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FSCTASouthernCaliforniaTimingAssociation%2Fposts%2F1007139246116524&width=500" width="500" height="790" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allow="encrypted-media"></iframe>


Can't believe this has not been shared yet :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: coloradodave on June 13, 2018, 11:04:07 AM
I was wondering the same thing...
Great news for sure :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Happy Pappy on June 13, 2018, 07:58:44 PM
Is that the new sled Ed Fenn built? Was wondering how that was working out.

Chris


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: MRK on June 14, 2018, 10:15:06 AM
Is that the new sled Ed Fenn built? Was wondering how that was working out.

Chris

I understand it wasn't used because the salt was hard and dry. The new sled is intended for use on a wet and sticky lake bed.
This came from the same question I posed to the SCTA via Facebook.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: desotoman on June 14, 2018, 07:38:01 PM
Does anyone know how thick the surface salt crust is?

Thanks in advance,

Tom G.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: modelAsteve on June 14, 2018, 10:36:08 PM
Not thick enough!


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 14, 2018, 10:42:17 PM
Not thick enough!
Not thick enough to use a tape measure!
  Sid.