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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: bbarn on February 15, 2017, 07:50:57 AM



Title: Salt updates
Post by: bbarn on February 15, 2017, 07:50:57 AM
Anyone been to the flats recently? Any updates on conditions or insights/comparisons to previous February visits?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Glen on February 15, 2017, 11:26:16 AM
I heard they we pumping, no other updates.



Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stainless1 on February 15, 2017, 06:27:22 PM
I heard they we pumping, no other updates.



Which direction   :x


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on February 16, 2017, 10:11:46 AM
Polarity matters!  :x :x :x


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: vintageracecar on February 18, 2017, 03:09:58 AM
Be better if the pumps are not running yet.
Doesn't make a lot of sense, pumping all that good Salt Brine on top of Inches of standing water.
You don't want to delude it anymore. Bad enough you can't pump it above a 17% salt concentration.
Believe that was the number before the salt brine comes apart and can't be pumped any longer.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on February 18, 2017, 06:44:33 AM
The water is dissolving the salt taking it down below---17% brine would minimize the amount that is dissolved---we will continue to loose surface salt until the water table below is saturated also.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on February 18, 2017, 07:55:35 AM
---we will continue to loose surface salt until the water table below is saturated also......


.... and not until they stop drawing that water table down from their alluvial wells just to the west of the salt.  They need to find a different source for their pumping water.

In addition ...

Quote
1979
U.S. Geological Survey and BLM study “Hydrology and Surface Morphology of the Bonneville Salt Flats and Pilot Valley Playa, Utah”; study concludes: “Weather cycles may partly explain changes on the Bonneville salt crust. But the activities of man, such as withdrawing brine and constructing surface-drainage barriers, have altered the hydrologic environment and have had a profound effect on the salt crust. Water-level data indicate that during 1976 brine was moving through the shallow-brine aquifer on the Salt Flats from the area of salt crust toward all areas of manmade discharge (brine-collection ditches east and south of the salt crust and alluvial-fan wells west of the salt crust).”  Study also says: “Elimination of brine withdrawals from the ditch system north of the interstate highway would eliminate a yearly loss of about 680 acre-feet of brine and 270,000 tons of salt.”

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,14015.msg279716/topicseen.html#msg279716

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: manta22 on February 18, 2017, 11:20:18 AM
Thanks, Sumner. This study shows that even back in 1979 the BLM knew how to minimize the loss of salt crust. Malfeasance, payoff....something was going on. --and the people involved should be fired or in jail!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Roadster on February 28, 2017, 10:40:14 PM

    I vote for jail.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Texican on March 02, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
Anyone been to the flats recently? Any updates on conditions or insights/comparisons to previous February visits?

https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g57164-d146215-i68809126-Bonneville_Salt_Flats-Wendover_Utah.html
At our USFRA meeting Wed. nite; We were told 12" deep at 2 1/2 mile.

With more rain coming; may still be a lake in May.
Jim


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on March 02, 2017, 11:24:26 AM
Deep snow pack in the high country over the winter & warm temps recently with a lot of rain created a large runoff problem & there's still plenty of snow pack left. Hwy 30 still closed.
  Sid.
 http://fox13now.com/2017/02/08/flood-waters-close-roads-near-elko/


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: FoundSoul on May 17, 2017, 10:58:57 AM
Any update on salt conditions currently?  Trying to decide if I should start packing a car up here soon.....  Have an immense workload right now, tempting to sit this one out unless it looks really good.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: bbarn on May 17, 2017, 12:33:49 PM
I see it is an El Nino this year. Wonder what that will do for precip @ B'ville?

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/west-wendover-nv/89883/weather-warnings/2083546 (http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/west-wendover-nv/89883/weather-warnings/2083546)
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/west-wendover-nv/89883/weather-forecast/2083546 (http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/west-wendover-nv/89883/weather-forecast/2083546)


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on May 17, 2017, 02:22:10 PM
I just checked.

It's still May in Utah.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Peter Jack on May 17, 2017, 02:32:42 PM
I just checked.

It's still May in Utah.

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on May 17, 2017, 06:17:02 PM
It's snowing here today.  :x
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Glen on May 17, 2017, 06:23:22 PM
wet on the salt,no change,


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: bearingburner on May 17, 2017, 07:59:39 PM
It snowed around here Sunday, 92* today.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: jacksoni on May 17, 2017, 09:55:39 PM
If you look at the photo posted on the facebook page with a guy standing at the end of the road, there is a lot of water. But off in the distance toward the dike there is a line of white, which I take to be exposed salt. if so not so bad. We have driven through that much water to the courses in the past. What it looks like to me. Others with interpretation?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on May 18, 2017, 10:44:43 AM
It snowed around here Sunday, 92* today.
That's not Wendover Utah right? It can't be 92 in Wendover & 32 here in Lava! :|
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: bearingburner on May 18, 2017, 12:13:00 PM
Western Mass.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on May 18, 2017, 01:07:11 PM
What's the weather going to be in Suwanee on August 12th this year?  Any chance of showers the day before?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on May 18, 2017, 01:39:11 PM
What's the weather going to be in Suwanee on August 12th this year?  Any chance of showers the day before?




  Hard to tell I cant find that location in my Farmers Almanac    :-D


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: bbarn on May 19, 2017, 07:02:16 AM
What's the weather going to be in Suwanee on August 12th this year?  Any chance of showers the day before?

Partly cloudy with a chance of sarcasm.  :-D


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: FoundSoul on May 19, 2017, 09:24:27 AM
What's the weather going to be in Suwanee on August 12th this year?  Any chance of showers the day before?

I didn't ask about the weather... at all...


Chances are August 12th in Suwanee will be 97*F and 20% chance of afternoon thundershowers.  The day before will be the same. 


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: thundersalt on May 23, 2017, 10:09:06 AM
Brady Nish‎ post these on FB a few days ago. Looks pretty good to me in photos


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: rouse on May 23, 2017, 12:01:35 PM
WOW! Thank for the update.

Rouse


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on May 23, 2017, 11:13:40 PM
 :evil: where is the PROPSTER :?   this may well be the year for the PROPSTER  :-o


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: BobDcuda on May 27, 2017, 05:09:24 PM
See the new video from Lands End by Mayor Mike, posted today on SCTA's Facebook page. Looks promising....


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: gande on June 05, 2017, 11:16:25 PM

Thurs June 1  No Water. Too wet to drive on.

Gary


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: floydjer on June 08, 2017, 12:10:29 PM
:evil: where is the PROPSTER :?   this may well be the year for the PROPSTER  :-o
careful Sparky....One more mention of ol` whirlygig`s name and he appears.... :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: RichFox on June 08, 2017, 01:06:03 PM
I think he may be selling his ride to chris.giles


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: gande on June 11, 2017, 12:48:35 PM
 
Link to Bonneville Salt Flats weather station.  http://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base_dyn.cgi?stn=BFLAT&unit=0&timetype=LOCAL

Link to webcam  http://meso1.chpc.utah.edu/station_cameras/bflat_cam/bflat_cam_current.jpg

Gary


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sporty Dan on June 11, 2017, 09:15:02 PM
The view from the web cam sure looks promising.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: BobDcuda on June 14, 2017, 12:08:33 PM
Where exactly is that webcam located?  Looks near Lands End, or maybe out on one of the dikes...??


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Calkins on June 14, 2017, 02:53:16 PM
Someone on Facebook said near the weather station, where ever that is...


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: thundersalt on June 14, 2017, 05:54:32 PM
I would guess north of the dyke by course 3 and 4 staging


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Calkins on June 14, 2017, 07:36:45 PM
I would guess north of the dyke by course 3 and 4 staging


That is exactly what I thought, as well.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Eddieschopshop on June 14, 2017, 07:55:14 PM
looks awefully close to the mountains,  my guess is to the west of the end of the long course. 


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ratpatrol66 on June 14, 2017, 08:41:16 PM
Where ever the camera is it sure looks good out there!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 16, 2017, 10:04:11 AM
I'm heading down to the salt tomorrow to see what the winter runoff & MINING have left us.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on June 16, 2017, 10:51:56 AM
looking forward to your Objective report Sid!!


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on June 17, 2017, 09:13:41 AM
looking forward to your Objective report Sid!!

What Sparky said! And please don't moon the camera Sid!  :-o :x :-D


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 17, 2017, 09:34:45 AM
looking forward to your Objective report Sid!!

What Sparky said! And please don't moon the camera Sid!  :-o :x :-D
Might!! :-D
The trusty-rusty van will be on the road this morning. :mrgreen: :dhorse:
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on June 17, 2017, 03:59:07 PM
 Safe travels Sid looking forward to the report.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 19, 2017, 01:02:34 PM
Two threads one reply.
  Sid.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,16706.msg304544.html#new


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: gnomenator on July 10, 2017, 08:35:33 AM
Morning all, any reports from t&t participants on the condition of the Salt or how the track held up? I checked USFRA but no reports there . Here's hoping for a great season and good salt to all  :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on July 10, 2017, 10:27:37 AM
Morning all, any reports from t&t participants on the condition of the Salt or how the track held up? I checked USFRA but no reports there . Here's hoping for a great season and good salt to all  :cheers: :cheers:

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/board,38.0.html

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: gnomenator on July 10, 2017, 09:31:41 PM
Thanks Sumner!  :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Old Scrambler on December 12, 2017, 12:10:40 PM
I can't find the save-the-salt thread..........news today on Yahoo Financial about POTASH mining expansion at Blair, Utah...........that's our neighbors to the south of I-80.........


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: velocity on December 16, 2017, 07:06:55 AM
Would you please post the link to the Yahoo financial article?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: **RP** on December 19, 2017, 11:58:39 AM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-potash-stocks-consider-buying-023000680.html

This was the only article I could find and it sounded worse......Intepid selling salt!


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on December 19, 2017, 03:54:02 PM
So Im wondering what is going on with this save the salt stuff. Seems like its been really quiet. How about a focus on return the salt which in reality would be saving the salt. Yea I know what a concept.  :-o


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on December 19, 2017, 05:51:09 PM
Yup - they ARE selling it . . .

http://www.intrepidpotash.com/salt/products/

If Intrepid flops, then the question becomes, who mans the pumps?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: joea on December 19, 2017, 06:20:24 PM
the irony speaks for itself...the racer group...cleaning salt off bottom of vehicles...so
as to help preserve the salt flats...while the mining companies haul it off in tens of thousands of tons..
and also sell it off in rail cars...


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on December 19, 2017, 07:31:26 PM
. . . year after year.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stainless1 on December 19, 2017, 10:15:11 PM
But Wait... All the years of BLM and University Studies can't figure out where the surface is going....




Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: will6er on December 19, 2017, 10:25:52 PM
I saw a recent photo on the site (I forget which thread it is on ). It looked to me like there was dry land behind the poster. Is Intrepid pumping? It seems like there should be nothing but water at this time

Will Willis
#6302


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on December 20, 2017, 10:54:00 AM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-potash-stocks-consider-buying-023000680.html

This was the only article I could find and it sounded worse......Intepid selling salt!

If one reads to the bottom of that article it sounds like Intrepid's days might possibly be numbered.  I'm thinking they probably don't want to put money into pumping if they don't have to,

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 20, 2017, 05:13:45 PM
Like I've said many times,"the pumping will only continue until their profit margin get's too low to continue". When the money is gone, so will the mining. Meantime it's just a one way money machine.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on December 20, 2017, 05:36:42 PM
Looks like its time for STS to get busy quickly to bring suit against the possibility of Intepid shutting down, selling salt and anything else that hinders the mission purpose of save the salt. Being nice has gotten no where and nothing has been accomplished of any magnitude to show any positive results. Stop being push overs and do whats needed use the funds many of us have donated and get serious about the mission.   :x


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on December 20, 2017, 07:53:31 PM
From what (little) I know, when an entity stops mining, they're supposed to return the "land" to what it was before they started. And they post bonds to ensure that.  And then that particular branch of some larger entity goes bankrupt.  And then nothing happens.  Seems like the table is stacked for large industrial and mining concerns.  Anyone else notice this even more lately?  {I bet there's coal(!) under Mt. Rushmore!}


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 21, 2017, 11:50:14 AM
The BLM says there is no change to the salt flats.
What do you expect to see when the Bowen report comes out next year? I expect to see no "conclusive evidence".
Funding of the Bowen report was paid for by Intrepid.
Is that report designed to coincide with mining's end on Bonneville Public Land?
When they walk away, the most they'll likely have to do is block off the drains & canals at the freeway.
  Sid.



Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Sumner on December 21, 2017, 02:05:06 PM
From what (little) I know, when an entity stops mining, they're supposed to return the "land" to what it was before they started...

The lease agreement does not require them to return "any salt" only do basically what Sid said plus, I believe, plug off any wells.  I've posted links to it in the past in this thread or one of the other ones on the salt's condition,

Sumner


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: ronnieroadster on December 21, 2017, 08:56:37 PM
From what (little) I know, when an entity stops mining, they're supposed to return the "land" to what it was before they started...

The lease agreement does not require them to return "any salt" only do basically what Sid said plus, I believe, plug off any wells.  I've posted links to it in the past in this thread or one of the other ones on the salt's condition,

Sumner






    Gee whats STS and Velocity have to say about all of this. The salt was saved for Inteped and looks like it may never be returned sure would be nice to hear what STS is doing if anything.     


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: SPARKY on December 22, 2017, 12:08:20 AM
ummmm Kemo Sabe---- Sid "Speak with Straight Tongue"


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on December 22, 2017, 09:59:38 AM
Topic should be renamed, "Salt downgrades!"  :cry:  :dhorse: :cry: :dhorse: :cry: :dhorse:


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: **RP** on December 23, 2017, 10:41:22 AM
Looking at the SEMA website I found this in an article about the dry salt laydown at the end of the road from 2014.

“The Coalition is now eager to take the next step this summer by laying down a two-mile strip of salt the width of a race track,” said Ron Main with the Speed Demon team (the world’s fastest piston-driven vehicle).  “Pending BLM approval, the test project will confirm that we can repair areas where it’s needed and help preserve and protect our national treasure—the Bonneville Salt Flats—for our future generations.” 

Should have had 6 miles of good track by now.  Did BLM not approve this?  Also noted SEMA is in Washington DC.....connected to the Swamp?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on December 23, 2017, 12:19:15 PM
Should have had 6 miles of good track by now.  Did BLM not approve this?  Also noted SEMA is in Washington DC.....connected to the Swamp?

If there's any draining going on, it's at Bonneville, not in Washington.

I'm looking at the local level.

Here in Milwaukee, we use literally shiploads of salt on our streets during the winter months.  I want to find out where the city's suppliers are getting it.  They're based in Ohio, and I've been told that the source is Michigan, but I can't confirm that - yet.  I'd like to be able to confirm that and propose a moratorium on the city's use of salt extracted from western Utah.

http://wuwm.com/post/salt-keeps-milwaukees-streets-safe-drive-wintertime

It might be the last resort to affect change - by going after Intrepid's wallet.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Ron Gibson on December 23, 2017, 12:41:40 PM
Any salt hauled in to make a race track or ramp at the end of the road, as was done, will be disolved and dispersed over the flats the first time the salt flats floods. Basic improvement = not enough to see.

Ron


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on December 23, 2017, 03:03:55 PM
Somewhere, looking thru documents a couple of years ago, I found mention of a separate Intrepid Salt company.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on December 23, 2017, 03:10:22 PM
Jim, having watched them for a number of years - I actually bought some stock in order to get the stockholder's report - this is the first I've seen them openly advertising salt -

http://www.intrepidpotash.com/salt/products/


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WhiskersMagee on December 27, 2017, 12:36:05 PM
Is there any chance to move the speedway to a differentt location that has better salt?  Sorry for my ignorance on the subject:)


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: DallasV on December 27, 2017, 02:49:44 PM
Is there any chance to move the speedway to a differentt location that has better salt?  Sorry for my ignorance on the subject:)
This response is only if you mean moving the speedway at Bonneville. The course is at a different location every year. The days of "this is where the course is every year i.e. international course" are long gone. Each year a team of experts from each venue (SCTA, USFRA, Cook, Motorcycle meet) go out to the salt and spend many hours/days probing, driving, testing, sample dragging to find the best salt available to run on. The salt that is available migrates from year to year. That salt diminishes each year making it harder and harder to find a safe course. It becomes much more difficult for the SCTA group because of the amount of entries requires multiple courses. It is also becoming exponentially more difficult to find even 1 long course for high speed cars. 9 miles of decent salt are optimal for a long course. in the last few years it has become almost impossible to find even a good 7. Hope this helped - Dallas


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: Stan Back on December 27, 2017, 04:57:25 PM
It surely helps -- especially from you, who actually knows something.

(Although it sounds like, "You've only got less than 30 days left" from your doctor.  Great to know, but hard to take.)


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: WhiskersMagee on December 27, 2017, 10:01:54 PM
I realize that the last few years there has been poor salt conditions. what i ment by move is, away from wendover to an area closer to salt lake.  There must be an area that could handle the lay out?


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: RichFox on December 28, 2017, 11:17:05 AM
A lot of people have been looking for some years now, without success. That's why people are going to Australia and Bolivia these days. Seems like the other side of the Silver mountains would be easier to get to than Bolivia. But what do I know? I have never been to either.


Title: Re: Salt updates
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 28, 2017, 03:20:48 PM
The BLM sold mining rights to the salt on the north side of Silver Island Mountains some 3 or 4 years ago a Canadian company.
To the east beyond Floating Mountain is part of Eagle Range, USAF.
To the south of the railroad is the Intrepid mining operation that is sucking Bonneville Salt Flats dry.
The only other area is north of the Knolls exit on I-80 but that was sucked dry by Mag Corp in the early 80's.
  Sid.