Landracing Forum
Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials => Bville Motorcycle Speed Trials General Chat => Topic started by: DRW on January 21, 2017, 03:25:52 PM
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Why, Doesnt BMST have a 200 Club, If you run 200+ and set a record, You should be in there,,, The Salt Flats
just let you run 200+ , It doesnt know the sanctioning body, SCTA, BMST Etc.....
I will never get close, But I know a lot of guys that Have & Are close, Doesnt seem fair ???
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Why, Doesnt BMST have a 200 Club, If you run 200+ and set a record, You should be in there,,, The Salt Flats
just let you run 200+ , It doesnt know the sanctioning body, SCTA, BMST Etc.....
I will never get close, But I know a lot of guys that Have & Are close, Doesnt seem fair ???
BMST has a 201 club....
The thing you need to understand is it is setting a record over 200 means going faster than anyone else has. The Bonneville 200 MPH Club just voted to accept FIA and FIM records from any event on the salt as long as they exceed the comparable class record from the SCTA record book.
So attend the BMST, set a FIM record over 200 that exceeds the SCTA record in the comparable class and then submit your FIM record to the club to collect your hat.
Easy peasy...
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Hmm, OK, Like all runs at Bonneville, Sounds easy....
Yet, Im still at 135 Haha
But thanks Stainless, As I said, Im not gonna get there, But its interesting to know..
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There is no direct conversion between FIM and SCTA classes. There are big differences in what is allowed. It will be interesting to see how this works.
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Ive Heard,,,,,,,,,,,, It Doesnt !
just sayin............................
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it is very strange with the Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials (former BUB)....
they got the 201 Club....and to my understanding, this is the reason why the Bonneville 200 MPH Club is not getting red hats out at this event....
So happens to Erin Okonek, she had to run a 217 mph record under FIM at the Shootout to earn her red hat, albeit she set during the BMST, around three weeks before two FIM records at 216 mph.....
in the other hand, Eva Hakanson earned a red hat at the BUB (BMST) in August 2013 with her 212 mph record in the electric sidecar (this record was certified as AMA and FIM record)
Well, maybe our 200 MPH Club president Dan Warner can explain us, what the real fact is.
Dan, Thanks in advance for that.
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Hey Pork Pie, I can answer that one... there were no 200 MPH Club board reps at the BMST, so she would have needed to submit he FIM record to the club board for acceptance. At the Shootout there was representation. At that time, the board just had to agree that the record speed was acceptable to the club... Dan contacted other board members and they agreed, so Erin's FIM record earned her a hat.
There is a new rule just voted on by the membership that the FIA/FIM Speeds must exceed the SCTA record in a comparable class.
Wob and DRW... actually quite a few of the FIM classes have very similar rules and requirements in both open and PS classes. The major difference I see is class breaks, but they all fall within one or another of the SCTA breaks.... the SCTA has more to choose from.
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Oh I guess I should add that red hats have been given out at the BUB, now BMST... when a Club board member was present.... I recall 2006, when Chris Carr broke Rocky's record right after Rocky broke Dave's long standing record. I believe a board member was also present when Eva set her record.
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Stainless, I like that, Thanks for the info,,
As for Chris Carr and Eva, I agree, Really also with Erin, Im not so sure who others are , I know Mark Bjorkland on the Dual Motor Ducati Broke 200 and set a record ?
But as I was sayin, Chris & Eva, Those are records that just blow away other records so yes, They deserve it..
DW
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It is the second run at BMST(FIM) that is the great leveller, you can run with a 16 mph wind on your down run, turn it around an hour or so later and run into a 14mph headwind, just sayin is all :-)
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Stay..... Wind at Bonneville is a factor no mater what, when and how you run.... a few years ago we ran the 1 liter open class for records with 5 different riders, after the first set a record, the next rider qualified on that record and the next morning the second reset the record higher... the third rider qualified on that record and the next morning the 8-10 MPH headwind prevented a record... the forth rider qualified on the record after the wind calmed a little but the next morning a 8-10 MPH headwind again prevented a record... this was the last day of racing... the 8-10 headwind continued but the fifth rider qualified it and 2 hours later she missed the record by .01 after the headwind increased to 14. The record is still there, we have run 4 MPH faster than it is, our competitors have run 4 MPH faster than it is... but it is still there... that's just Bonneville
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Stainless,
this is maybe a explanation.....
albeit "they got the 201 Club....and to my understanding, this is the reason why the Bonneville 200 MPH Club is not getting red hats out at this event...."
this was told to me a couple years ago by an 200 MPH Club official....
in the other hand....I never visit a BUB or BMST meet.....so I don't know what is going on, there.
At the Shootout 2016, I think the 200 Club was aware of Erin Okonek records at the BMST...and if you read the notes on the Shootout Facebook side it sound in some way other than what you wrote about the different red hats....
This was the reason why I "asked Dan" to get it clear from the view of the club.
About records under FIA/FIM to SCTA rule book...their is a big different....just an example.....lakester....the FIA got not this category.....if you run a lakester under FIA you would Special Construction Streamliner....doesn't matter that the wheels stuck out....FIA...no different between gas and fuel....you run what you like......
What the FIA is now using, is the Safety Rules for roll cage design and other important safety feature....and here the are using the SCTA rules....
A big different is the 1 hour turnaround....for a lot of teams it is maybe tough to do this....the design of a lot of racer are not taking care for the 1 hour...and for the FIA it means a handicap.....with the today numbers of starters on the SCTA and USFRA events it would impossible to run under the 1 hour rule, also it is questioned if this 1 hour still make sense, especially from the view of safety......
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I've seen 2 comments about the one hour turn around and different directions with wind being a handicap factor for FIA/FIM. On the other side of the fence SCTA/USFRA only gets a 5 mile curse regardless of track condition where FIA/FIM could get 6 or 7. I see that as an equalizer or possible advantage.
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Dallas said: "...a 5 mile curse..."
Yeah, I've had lousy runs like that, too. :roll:
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Dallas said: "...a 5 mile curse..."
Yeah, I've had lousy runs like that, too. :roll:
It was a typo but I'm leaving it. It actually makes more sense with recent conditions
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:cheers: :cheers:
Ron
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I've seen 2 comments about the one hour turn around and different directions with wind being a handicap factor for FIA/FIM. On the other side of the fence SCTA/USFRA only gets a 5 mile curse regardless of track condition where FIA/FIM could get 6 or 7. I see that as an equalizer or possible advantage.
Dallas,
6 miles...maybe....7 miles...no way....this would means a 13 miles long course....the last time the salt saw a 13 miles was in the 60's....
Shootout 2016 had official a 11 miles to run....which would mean....that the 6th mile was the measured mile.....
The reality....both ends of the 11 miles was very rough...if you used the track through the pits....which was part of the 11 miles....it was to my opinion a disadvantage....smaller streamliners like the Truz Missile and the Honda streamliner lift complete off the ground with all four wheels....Jim Knapp's Barnyard bearcat was with the wheels off the ground...
for both small streamliners return runs end in a turn out after they "bounced" through the pits....out of the pits it wasn't better....so it was realistically good 10 miles to use....which means the measured mile was from 4.5 to 5.5 mile....and don't forget....the 1 hour means....from the moment you drive into the measured mile to driving out of the measured mile on the return run....all the way to the pits for the turn around is include in this 1 hour....for turning around the racer you got about 50 minutes to start the racer again. The other issue with the 1 hour is the cooling down....some engines are still to hot when they start for the return run....the bike didn't use all the length of the track during the Shootout....viewing the timing list from Alan Rice, I found out, that the most bike riders was slowing down to the end of the measure mile.....couple years ago Richard Assen told me a lot of interesting things about this overheating.....well, FIM allowed two hours for the turn around...helps to get the engine back to a proper temperature....
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Pork Pie, No disagreement here, just saying if and when conditions are better that could be an equalizing or advantaging factor and was considered for the 200 mph club amendment. Guess my point is the grass is always greener. It's harder for FIA/FIM folks because they have to turn around in an hour and deal with wind but may have a little more course. But my record was harder because I had to go both directions on an SCTA course. That is unless you ask my father who had the harder record because he had to qualify first then the next day run down and back in an hour, 3 runs for a record. Unless you ask the old old timers who's record was more difficult because horsepower was dependent on how many horses they were hooked up to. See where I'm coming from here?
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Typically the RAD at Bonneville is almost always in the very high 90`s in the morning, then falls away to mid 80`s during the afternoon,,
The wind is usualy a breeze in the morning, as humidity builds it is unpredictable later in the day,,
Those two factors will determine how many horses you have :-)
If I was running SCTA, my battle plan would be to stage so as to get a morning run in as earlie as possible, then be somewhere in the front section of the que for the next mornings backup :-)
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Then again you may awake to a wet course for your backup run. (it's happened to us a couple times)
Also we have had a headwind more than once in the morning for the return run.
It's all chance and mother nature rules.
Don
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Dallas, Don,
I remember very well the old way to set records...I think 1995 was the last time they run this way....in 1996 they start to run the qualifier and than 1 return run....
that was the reason why I wrote, that today with the sheer number of racers it is impossible to do the FIA way....
and about the condition on the morning return run....a tough cross wind nearly blow my red hat return run away....
and to early years we experienced wet salt in the morning and the racer (a streamliner) was slow down in the soft salt....
record breaking is not easy....
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Clicking off a non-soft record could never be called easy but the old three run days were especially tough with a pre-qualifier then the two run turn around & coming back towards Wendover was typically a mile shorter to the clock than going down. There was a bit of a real estate shortage back then but nothing like we have ended up with now & that is reflected in the format changes.
We do the best we can with what is left! :cry:
Sid.
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I remember very well the old way to set records...I think 1995 was the last time they run this way....in 1996 they start to run the qualifier and than 1 return run....
Small point, but can anyone confirm when the change was made from three runs to two?
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BMST(FIM), at 11:39am I run a 190.496mph with a 16mph tail wind, then on the backup run at 12:59pm go 183.906mph into a 14mph headwind, averages out to a 187.2 record :-)
At SCTA, do thay average the runs or, is the first a qualifier, then the record is taken from the second pass ??
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At SCTA, do thay average the runs or, is the first a qualifier, then the record is taken from the second pass ??
It's the average of the two.
Our morning record runs generally seem to be slower than the qualifier but that could be just us.
Don
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You are always above the record for the qualifier... the back up pass can go either way.... :roll: :cheers:
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I remember very well the old way to set records...I think 1995 was the last time they run this way....in 1996 they start to run the qualifier and than 1 return run....
Small point, but can anyone confirm when the change was made from three runs to two?
As Mr. Pie stated it was 1995
John
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I remember very well the old way to set records...I think 1995 was the last time they run this way....in 1996 they start to run the qualifier and than 1 return run....
Small point, but can anyone confirm when the change was made from three runs to two?
All you need to do is look at the 200 MPH Club roster. It went from 3 or 4 members per year to 10 or 20.
That should tell you how hard it was to set a record with 3 passes. :|
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I remember very well the old way to set records...I think 1995 was the last time they run this way....in 1996 they start to run the qualifier and than 1 return run....
Small point, but can anyone confirm when the change was made from three runs to two?
As Mr. Pie stated it was 1995
John
Thanks John.
Was that also when the (previously separate) SCTA and USFRA record lists were merged? And when the LSA (Land Speed Authority) ceased to operate?
For those of us who weren't there, it's not easy to work out what was happening on the salt in the 1990's. :-(
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All you need to do is look at the 200 MPH Club roster. It went from 3 or 4 members per year to 10 or 20.
That should tell you how hard it was to set a record with 3 passes. :|
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Michael,
you are right....after the change to set a record....the record speed "explode"....and the number of Club member....a other reason for the higher number on Club member was after the Hayabusa was available....this bike done a lot of racer into the club.
there are only a few records left over from the time with the old (before 1996) rule....an this records mostly are tough records....
one of them was set by my great friend John (Speed Limit 1000)......221 mph in I/FL.....I had the luck to be first (record) over 200 mph in I/GL (Oct. 2012)...to today I ask me, how he pressed this speed out in 1995.....my best was close to 205 mph.....
and with this, that the most records was set under the today rule....this way of setting a record had to be seen to FIA and FIM
The one who set their records under the old rule, they really done a great job....tough time to set records.