Landracing Forum
Tech Information => EFI Questions => Topic started by: 1JZ-GTE on December 14, 2016, 11:23:58 PM
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did a search but nothing turned up... wondering what the (ice)water temperature (going into the IC) on air to water intercoolers on a really efficient system would be.
NA as well as charged systems. also how much air temperature drop can they provide?
thank you,
Joe
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Dont know about a realy efficant system, but on our 750cc bike with ice/water tank in rear and intercooler as part of the plenum at 25-28 psi inlet pressure we commonly have 30C inlet temp for most of the run then gain 1 deg/sec as we loose ice
i have also tested with bigger intercooler on bigger bike at 20-25C post intercooler and got down to 0-5 with E85 measured in the port just above the valve (on dyno i expect real use will be a few deg higher)
Other testing with straight methanol as fuel , no intercooler gave 4-5 deg C (40F) at the same point in the inlet port at any boost level , (on dyno again), this may change as things heat soak but still great inlet temps
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My past research turned up nothing on the effect of an intercooler on NA applications, but Vizard points out the positive effect of an ice filled "cool can" for fuel lines entering the carburetor in his "Tuning the A-Series Engine".
I think you need to gather more information - engine air flow requirements would be a good starting point.
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did a search but nothing turned up... wondering what the (ice)water temperature (going into the IC) on air to water intercoolers on a really efficient system would be.
NA as well as charged systems. also how much air temperature drop can they provide?
thank you,
Joe
For really efficient IC:
A1) 32 F
A2) dT = (Air temp) - (32 F)
So what are your efficiencies, temperatures, and flow rates?
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I use an ice water cooled intercooler in a NA application. Don't know water in and out temps though in should be close to 32*F . Air in is ambient OAT in the 90* range at Bonneville. The air into the engine drops progressively through the run (short course) to high 50's*. I should start the pump sooner I think, but usually just after engine start at the line which is 30-60 seconds (seems longer and may be some times, haven't measured). So the temp drop in that 70 second run is 30+*. The difference between local air pressure and manifold pressure is 3kPa approx.
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Jack, I trust that is +3 from ambient to Manifold... pressure from your scoop... with the throttles wide open. :wink: :cheers:
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Jack, I trust that is +3 from ambient to Manifold... pressure from your scoop... with the throttles wide open. :wink: :cheers:
I wish. I have no clue about accuracy of my measurement/sensors etc, just what the ECU is reading. The scoop I think is well placed at a high pressure area but air has to go through the intercooler, piping bends to an airbox over the injectors. The air box may not be 100% sealed but is reasonably tight. This works to about 0.8" of Hg. (less than standard vacuum through a carb) I have not run it with data logging on without the intercooler to see the comparison. I did run it once at Wilmington (ECTA) without and was several MPH slower. The pressure drop vs gains from the temp drop? Haven't calculated it so...... :? But I think it works.... (emphasis on "think") :cheers:
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maj: even 15% ethanol (E85) provides some cooling over straight gas then?
MM: yes xactly what i am doing gathering info, for now. what is the effect of fuel cooling on the stoich ratio?
IO: too early to tell, this is the info gathering part and although i am interested in intercooling for NA applications
from what i hear it is not entirely clear to me if it really works. intake air cooling might not offset pressure losses
from stuffing air though and intercooler?! you numbers reflect the real world inside a laboratory :)
what would be really good numbers actually attainable?
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If you can find space an auto radiator ought to have low pressure drop . More than one in series of needed .
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Yes the E85 cools the intake some , Methanol does it better
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E85 is 85 percent ethanol not 15. It is blended with 15 percent gasoline to help it light for easy starting. Didn't check the difference in btu between ethanol and methanol.
The Doll, Fox, Christopher (sp?) Camaro went like stink on s***, N/A using NOX as cooling for inter-cooler only.
Ron
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john: sorry, the auto radiator for cooling intake air?
Ron: yes i have heard of that before, works well in diesels too. how much would you have to use where it begins to become effective?
yeah i didnt realize that E85 is mostly alcohol thought it was the other way round.
can e85 be used as a substitute for gas or is it deemed an alternative fuel?
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can e85 be used as a substitute for gas or is it deemed an alternative fuel?
At an SCTA event e85 would be fuel, only event gas is gas.
Of course none of this matters unless you set a record.
Don
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Don, that answer doesn't tell me if I can run E85 in Nancy's '14 Subaru. Will it work just dandy?
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Don, that answer doesn't tell me if I can run E85 in Nancy's '14 Subaru. Will it work just dandy?
Sure, till it doesn't :roll:
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Jon, is it a flex fuel vehicle? if not, are you are ready to get her a new car... she will need one after you fill it with E85...
Chances are she will make it partway to town....
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Don, that answer doesn't tell me if I can run E85 in Nancy's '14 Subaru. Will it work just dandy?
I think Johnboy and Stainless have this one covered.
Merry Christmas, Don
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Stainless said: "...Chances are she will make it partway to town.... "
Why - the fuel would gel before I got to town?
No, wait, that's the diesel. Never mind.
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On the way home from Bonneville we hit one of those stretches where there was not gas stations in NM. Guess what, I ran my Pickup out of gas.
We had a fresh drum of E85 with us, and so I said no problem, just fill it with the $10.00 a gallon racing fuel. Connie and bill have reservations thinking I was going to screw the truck up out in the middle of nowhere.
That was until Bill opened the filler flap on the truck, and right there it said E85.
It worked just fine, but I opted for the cheaper stuff as some as we came to a gas station.
Rouse