Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: wheelrdealer on December 12, 2016, 07:12:39 PM
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Question:
2016 Rule Book, Pg 51 Sec. 3.Q FIRE EXTINGUISHING SYSTEM third from the last paragraph in the section reads: " A current inspection/filling certification (no more than 24 months old) for each agent bottle shall be visible to the technical inspector without removing the bottle".
I read that as my bottles are certified to Sept. 2017, so they are good for up to 24 months after Sept. 2017 or Sept. 2019? Am I understanding this correctly?
Thank you in advance for your insight.
BR
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On the Vesco liners we check every year and blow out the fire air lines and nozzles.
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I'd say that Roy Creel would be the guy to ask, but he doesn't hang out here. He'll be in the Rulebook under SCTA officials. Shoulda asked me this last Thursday at breakfast. I saw Roy within an hour of then.
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SCTA is a bit backwards from most new fire bottle certifications. You probably bought your bottles Sept of 2015 and they were certified till Sep 2017? Your certification probably expired Sept of 2017. The 24 months for SCTA starts from the inspection date. In that case you would need to get them inspected.
24 months is kind of a pain since you cannot go two Speed Weeks which was the intention of the rule change. 25 months would have been better. Having said that I have used mine 4 times over the years and you want them to work. I second what Glen said. You should check them and service your system at the start of each season.
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Slim:
Enjoyed visiting with you and Nancy at the PRI breakfast. Did not think to ask about the fire system.
I sent Roy an email but it keeps bouncing, doubled checked the address and it seems to be right.
The rule seems to say within 24 months of certification. That to me says if it was certified until 9/2017 its good until 9/2019. It is not a big problem, FireBottle is about a 2.5 hour drive. I took my 5 bottles to get them re-certified last Sept. to save the shipping. When I read the rule it made me wonder if I need to certify every year.
BR
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On my stuff the date on the bottle is the date it was inspected. When it has elapsed is determined by the sanctioning body. In the case of the SCTA two years from when it was inspected.
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If your bottles were filled or inspected in Sept of 16, then you can race them through Sept 18.
I suspect the NHRA and some other sanctioning bodies require annual inspection, thus yours says certified until Sept 17. Most agents don't go bad sealed in the bottle...
If the only date on the bottle is Sept 17 and you show up for SpeedWeek next year, you better be giving rides in a time machine to the inspectors :roll:
But if your bottle says it was filled or inspected in Sep 16 you will be fine.
Keith, you always get 2 Speedweeks from an inspection, and occasionally we get 3 if we forget and need the bottles inspected at the last minute before going racing... Inspect August 17, race 17, 18 and 19, they will expire at the end of Aug 19.... our tags are punched Month and Year.... the day is not on it so you get more than you think.
Our lines are also cleared annually as part of prep. :cheers:
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Stainless:
Thanks, I sent an email to Roy Creel for the office interpretation. But I appreciate your feedback.
BR
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SCTA is a bit backwards from most new fire bottle certifications. You probably bought your bottles Sept of 2015 and they were certified till Sep 2017? Your certification probably expired Sept of 2017. The 24 months for SCTA starts from the inspection date. In that case you would need to get them inspected.
24 months is kind of a pain since you cannot go two Speed Weeks which was the intention of the rule change. 25 months would have been better. Having said that I have used mine 4 times over the years and you want them to work. I second what Glen said. You should check them and service your system at the start of each season.
I don't think we're backwards at all. The date on the bottle cert is the date it was inspected. I've never heard or seen a cert that expires with a cert life of 2 years before. Maybe that's an SFI deal but when you cert or re-cert a bottle, it's always the date of inspection. The cert is good for two years from that inspection date and yes you can do two Speed Weeks on one cert. Example: cert on June 2016 - cert then expires on June 2018. That let's you run at Speed Week 2016 and 2017. Isn't that two Speed Weeks? The rule used to be every year and I believe it was changed to be less stringent and make racer's lives easier.
Actually, just read the SFI spec for fire systems: http://www.sfifoundation.com/wp-content/pdfs/specs/Spec_17.1_022614.pdf (http://www.sfifoundation.com/wp-content/pdfs/specs/Spec_17.1_022614.pdf) They cert every two years but only have a 6 year life. Wouldn't that suck?
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Nathan is correct. Every year was a pain and I believe Roy was the one to help make the 2 year happen. As for the 5 year deal; I believe the NHRA and other racing entities are in cahoots with the manufacturers to make replacing part that could never ware out would need replacing. If we had date requirements on fire suits, bell housings, crank dampeners, etc I would be gone. As long as we take care of our equipment I see no reason to follow in their foot steps. I understand belts and helmets. JD
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I've got a full bottle of Halon 1211 in my drag car that is out of date but provides better protection than the newer stuff, I run in a class where it isn't required and it'll stay there as long as the needle is in the green.
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Nathan is correct. Every year was a pain and I believe Roy was the one to help make the 2 year happen. As for the 5 year deal; I believe the NHRA and other racing entities are in cahoots with the manufacturers to make replacing part that could never ware out would need replacing. If we had date requirements on fire suits, bell housings, crank dampeners, etc I would be gone. As long as we take care of our equipment I see no reason to follow in their foot steps. I understand belts and helmets. JD
Jimmy:
I agree, I hear there are some agents that can corrode but I do not think FE-36 is one of them. For a corrosive agent I can understand the need for a periodic hydo test. Two of my five bottles will be over 6 years old and after 2018 can no longer be certified. I have no complaints about SFI and think they do great work... but sometimes one size is not the best fit for all.
Until then I have a lot more to worry about like, new pistons, valve train, roller cam, a new Hans, new trailer and a SFI 20 fire suit. Once I get all that I will be in so deep that new fire bottles will be a what the heck moment!
Thanks for the input.
BR
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Bill, you might want to make friends with your local fire equipment company... our Halon bottles are inspected by our local sponsor, Kansas Fire Equipment Co. They weigh them and check the pressure indicator. They look at the piercing seal and if the weight matches the weight on the original tag and the pressure shows good, they hang an inspected tag on it.
I take the car down there occasionally so the guys can climb in and take pictures. They also have a thank you picture on the wall. I have their sticker on the car.
Good relationships make racing a lot more reasonable.... :cheers:
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Stainless 1 I couldn't agree more. The Fitzall rules take a back seat to common sense.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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A local guy just certed my bottles, they are tagged Dec 2016 so I can run them for the next 2 years of racing. He did tell me the next time my 1211 bottle with be needed additional testing prior to being OK the next time. So I will prepare for that. I've using him for years and he comes to my home. JD
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Stainless:
Good point. I have a good relationship with Don Skaggs Jr. Don's dad Don Sr. Invented FireBottle. They take great care of me and their shop is about two hours from my house. I have sold about 50 fire bottle systems for them so it's a two way street.
The SCTA rules do not state SFI 17.1 compliant so the six year SFI limit rule does not come into effect, except getting bottles filed to SFI compliance by the manufacturer. SFI standard I believe changed to only 6 year old cylinders and newer can be SFI 17.1 Sec. 2.7 re-certified. A local company is cannot re-certify to SFI 17.1 standards. According to SFI after 6 refills or 6 years the bottle is no longer certifiable. http://www.sfifoundation.com/wp-content/pdfs/specs/Spec_17.1_022614.pdf (http://www.sfifoundation.com/wp-content/pdfs/specs/Spec_17.1_022614.pdf) .
The challenge with FireBottle is they have a proprietary valve seal, if you discharge your system, the only way to get one is to send the bottle to them once discharged. User refillable systems and some other systems I understand can be filled by you or local agencies. I discharged a bottle once while servicing the pull cable and it was an expensive mistake.
You can make your own determination as to the motivation behind Sec. 2.7. $$$ Bottom line if you buy a system, get it direct from a system manufacturer with a current date code and not from an automotive aftermarket supplier that may have had the system on the shelf for 8 month... that's 8 months less usable time you have in your six year SFI bottle life cycle.