Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: SteveM on November 14, 2016, 02:02:27 PM
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One of my friends (Tom), who attended WoS with me this year, has apparently caught a case of Salt Fever. He and another friend in Omaha have a '74 MG roadster that they are having LSR visions for.
What are the potential classes for a car like this? As far as my interpretation of the rulebook, the most likely classes I see are GT and MS-based classes (blown or Gas).
Any other Brainstorming ideas?
I told Tom that when he starts getting "real", that he'd need to start a build thread of his own.
Steve.
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You might suggest they real all 407 pages of Milwaukee Midget's build diary as a starting point. 8-) :cheers: After that and a few more :cheers: :cheers: They might take another track. No offense Chris. :-o Then have at it. As we all know salt fever is a bad disease.
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No offense taken, Stainless.
It would likely depend on which MG he has.
If it's an MGB Roadster, I think he can clearly run GT or Modified Sport, but that would need to be run up the flagpole, and here's why. There are some peculiar call-outs regarding the B - because it was available as a 4 passenger coupe, aka, the MGB GT - that might cause it to be sent packing over into the coupe classes. The Porsche 911 is an example of this peculiarity in the rules, as is the Karman Ghia.
My argument in favor of the MGB roadster in GT is that the MGB roadster was released before the MGB GT, and therefore could have legally ran GT before the introduction of the newer MGB GT came along and clouded the issue.
GT opens up a unique engine swap extravaganza for MG, and valid rules arguments could be made that could include anything and everything associated with MG/Rover/Triumph/Leyland/Jaguar/Ford/Coventry Climax - but that's if they want to keep a stock body and run a production class.
To give you an example as to just how crazy it could get, let's look at the Jensen Healey. One can legally take a 440 Chrysler engine - the stock powerplant in the Jensen Interceptor - and stuff an 8 liter Mopar Wedge between the fenderwells of a car with a 92" wheelbase and be class compliant for a production category, which GT is. Similarly, the Rover V8 could be used in the MGB OR the MG Midget.
Steve - please have Tom contact me if he needs a tourguide on the road to madness.
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Steve - quick update for your buddy, Tom.
Have him run down to Barnes and Noble and pick up the December issue of MG Enthusiast Magazine. There's a short story on the Walker-Chapman MGA BFMS on page 6.
I'd also suggest he dig through and find Udo Horn's Bonneville Bugeye.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,3585.0.html
A lot of this is going to depend upon how fast he wants to go or how nutty he wants to get with it.
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That's very interesting Chris! The Ford 4.6 Modular V8 engine (Mustang) is powering the new Rover, that makes it legal in your Midget for GT class!
Sid.
ps If you could get it to fit under a stock hood.
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Steve,
Have your friend heed carefully what Chris has to say about the "MG Experience". I would say he is the current LSR authority with respect to MG's in the lower GT classes. And I can only repeat, and reinforce, what Chris has already stated. To wit:
1/ It is of course, really important to pick a class, (or classes) and have a plan. Without a plan, any build becomes a "cascading nightmare" . . . . . . AND, the plan should include some sort of realistic "budget", if just for humor value at the end of the build.
2/ Engine swap. I personally have 2 decades of experience (on and off) during my career trying to make these 'B' series iron turds into something resembling a high performance engine. Notice I did not say racing engine. I consider the MGB engine to be the most ill designed iron lump ever conceived on the British Isles. Therefore, in my opinion, an engine swap is essential to performance. What engine, exactly, should be substituted, will depend on what class is chosen and what power output is required to be competitive in that class. If your friend is insistent on attempting to use the MGB engine, have him contact me first. I have some good examples of what kind of bhp can be achieved, which is sobering.
:cheers:
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I'm not sure what Steve's friend is going to do, or what he's thinking - a question I still get asked routinely - but getting back to the MGB, in a production category like GT, there are a few things going for it that the Midget lacked.
A factory chin spoiler was used late in the production run, which would be a big help keeping the nose planted.
Also, the Sebring style headlight covers were available from the factory, which would be huge in slicking up the front end. Steve, I think Gregg is running similar factory headlight covers on his Rampage.
I might suggest he update to the "Rubber Bumpers" - post 1975 - for better aero.
Factory hardtops were also available, and an MGB Roadster with a factory hardtop sits about 2 1/2" lower than the MGB GT. The windshield is markedly lower as well.
And it's a lot easier putting a cage into a roadster than a coupe.
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Steve - quick update for your buddy, Tom.
Have him run down to Barnes and Noble and pick up the December issue of MG Enthusiast Magazine. There's a short story on the Walker-Chapman MGA BFMS on page 6.
I'd also suggest he dig through and find Udo Horn's Bonneville Bugeye.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,3585.0.html
A lot of this is going to depend upon how fast he wants to go or how nutty he wants to get with it.
If Udo doesn't see this or readily answer, I helped build the BB and can provide some info as well. He has a blown D motor in the works for that car and keeps threatening to install same. Then the issue of who drives it comes up and he looks at me ( I drove in 2010 when we set the G/GMS record). And I go "who, me??????" Gonna have to think about that one.......after many :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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All good information! This is the best place on the whole 'web for sharing advice and experience. :cheers:
I am encouraging Tom to join here and start sharing details.
Steve.
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You tell him to fill in the location blank on the reg. page so I don't have to place in in Strangulated Testicle, Tennessee or someplace with a goofy name -- okay? :?
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Hi guys, this is Alan, the other [and possibly better] half of Steve's friend Tom. The car is a buddy of mine's, whose wife wants it out of the garage after 11 years. i have a passion and past of Road Racing, and told my friend i'd take the car from him but it would most likely not resemble stock when i was done with it, as my initial plan was a Road/AutoX car. BUT, this weekend i had a thought about an LSR car, so i told Tom, and he said he thought the same thing! meaning: we're both nuts, we both want to waste money and act like children, or all of the above.
i tried to make some sense of the SCTA rulebook ('15), but got lost in technicalities. From my reading, it looked like the only class this '74 MGB convertible would fit into is the Grand Touring Sport, which i see has a record is set ~ 165mph. i don't mind speed at all, and have zero issues attempting this record as a person, but i HIGHLY doubt the MG would make that speed (or anything close) given the constraints of that GTS class.
So, as we're not [yet] keen to all the rules and caveats of classifications, what other classes could this little 2-seater fit into? if we're going to do this and attempt to be at all compeditive, i'm thinking we'll have to do heavy mods including frame, suspension, body, and aero... but even if we do that i don't want to get stuck in a class with 911's ~180-200mph with us still trying to get all the juice out of a <2.0L n/asp 4 cyl.
i just got this link so thought i'd introduce myself to you all. i appreciate the guys that asked us to contact them about the rules... give us a bit and we will.
regardless of the route we go with this car, i am totally jazzed to coming out there Sept'17 to learn more, see some nice machines, and meet some great people.
cheers,
alan
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"iron turd"..Now THERE is a visual I didn`t need...JB
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I don't believe it can run except as a GT or MS car.
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Alan:
Welcome to the board, and "In Hoc", Brother. Before Slim jumps all over you, he likes to see a location included as part of your profile for the page.
Bear with me for a minute - I'm having some visions of that MG as an MS entry... build a tube frame with an extended, streamlined front end (max wheelbase is 130 inches), which should help add stability to a short wheelbase car like an MG...
At that point, the world is your Oyster in terms of engine swaps, engine selection, etc.
I think Johnny Hotnuts still holds the H/GMS (1.5L, Gas Modified Sports) at 165 and some change in his Fiat.
At those smaller engine sizes, there are a lot of engine swap choices, many coming from motorcycles as well as automobiles.
Welcome aboard,
Steve
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Alan:
Welcome to the board, and "In Hoc", Brother. Before Slim jumps all over you, he likes to see a location included as part of your profile for the page.
Bear with me for a minute - I'm having some visions of that MG as an MS entry... build a tube frame with an extended, streamlined front end (max wheelbase is 130 inches), which should help add stability to a short wheelbase car like an MG...
At that point, the world is your Oyster in terms of engine swaps, engine selection, etc.
I think Johnny Hotnuts still holds the H/GMS (1.5L, Gas Modified Sports) at 165 and some change in his Fiat.
At those smaller engine sizes, there are a lot of engine swap choices, many coming from motorcycles as well as automobiles.
Welcome aboard,
Steve
thanks Steve! location (and pic) added.
what is an "MS" class, and where can i find it's regulations? and for what it's worth, all these acronyms...
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Modified Sports -- in the Rule Book.
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In MS you can use any engine. And definitely check out the Bonneville Bugeye thread.
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Don't have my rulebook in front of me, but my memory tells me that the Bonneville Bugeye is also a record holder. Maybe G/GMS?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hey, Alan -
Iowa City - I spent more time at the Airliner, Gabe's and the Crow's Nest in my late teens than I could legally admit to today.
And a madhouse last Saturday night at Kinnick, for certain. GO HAWKS!
My parents are in Cedar Rapids, and Kate's niece lives in North Liberty. I get down there from time to time.
Between Burton Brown, Tom Donney and myself, along with a fistful of modified sports racers, the upper Midwest is becoming a bit of a hotbed for small bore LSR sports cars.
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Don't have my rulebook in front of me, but my memory tells me that the Bonneville Bugeye is also a record holder. Maybe G/GMS?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't need a rule book, is in my signature.. :-) :cheers:
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...and there it is....
Steve.
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Hey all,
This is Steve's friend Tom that carries the Salt Fever caught on September 8, 2016 upon arrival to the flats. Steve also forgot to mention that I am the one that was driving the Salty Frog during its 2016 meltdown run! Not proud of the accomplishment, but very greatful for the opportunity to drive the SF this past WofS.
Thank you for all of the input for the 74' MG. I'm not sure how far we will take this project, but fun to dream and great input from all! Time will tell how crazy we get, or if we move forward with this carcass at all. We will definitely keep you all in the loop.
Thanks again! Save the Salt!
Tom
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Tom - if you are in STL over Thanksgiving, stop by, and I'll give you my tubing bender on "long term loan". You are going to need it to build the frame and cage for that little beast.
Steve.
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Hey, Alan -
Iowa City - I spent more time at the Airliner, Gabe's and the Crow's Nest in my late teens than I could legally admit to today.
And a madhouse last Saturday night at Kinnick, for certain. GO HAWKS!
My parents are in Cedar Rapids, and Kate's niece lives in North Liberty. I get down there from time to time.
Between Burton Brown, Tom Donney and myself, along with a fistful of modified sports racers, the upper Midwest is becoming a bit of a hotbed for small bore LSR sports cars.
Small world! It's great to hear there's a "local" scene for LSR. Over my dozen years in Iowa, I've noticed this area (IA, IL, WI, MN) has quite the unique-motorsports scene in general (from Italian motorcycles in WI, local Chump-car scene, vintage motorcycles and cars, etc). I love the MW!
If you're down in the area with free time to spare sometime let me know... i'll show you around the garage, some of my toys, and bend your ear on LSR.
As far as this build goes, and what I'm capable of doing in the next 1.5 years ($ and time), I need to decide on if i'm going to keep as a vintage road "racer" to take to some "Gentleman's races" at Road America, or do the LSR car - if the LSR car, i think the only option would be a GT car. what i need to evaluate, and may contact a few of you via PM, is truly what engine swaps can be done but still be competitive. i see some of you noted there's quite the range of motors too swap in, as the MG lump is crap (which i agree). Now i need to just spend the time seeing what each of those motor size options are, and comparing it to the records in that engine class, to see if building an stock GT to reach that velocity is feasible.
thank you all for your help with this. If we do or do not build the MG into an LSR car, I am really looking forward to meeting some of you and learning more about the racing series over the next 10 months and at WoS '17!
cheers,
alan
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The big picture is the amount of work to seat time ratio you want.
Vintage/club type racing will be at the fun end of that scale & you can still street it plus your market is much broader if you want to sell.
LSR, you turn it into a tank for lot's more time & money with less seat time, it's not desirable for anything else & your resale market is tiny.
There are a lot of people that enjoy the build part so much that the challenge of LSR is right up their alley, if you're not one of those it's probably not for you. Take a good hard look at Steve's truck.
Sid.
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Alan:
Come to Speed Week with me, Tom, and the rest of the crew in 2017. My goal is to run in 2 classes (G/DT, and H/DT). We will show up with the G drivetrain installed, and do everything we can to be competitive against the current record. After we have done everything we can with the G drivetrain, we will swap the H drivetrain back into place, and either defend, or try to bump up our existing record.
There are at least 3 other teams that I know of who are chasing the H/DT record. I'm not sure if anyone else will be chasing the H/DT record in 2017.
Steve.
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Alan:
Come to Speed Week with me, Tom, and the rest of the crew in 2017. My goal is to run in 2 classes (G/DT, and H/DT). We will show up with the G drivetrain installed, and do everything we can to be competitive against the current record. After we have done everything we can with the G drivetrain, we will swap the H drivetrain back into place, and either defend, or try to bump up our existing record.
There are at least 3 other teams that I know of who are chasing the H/DT record. I'm not sure if anyone else will be chasing the H/DT record in 2017.
Steve.
Thanks for the invite Steve, I'm so there!