Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: lee72nova on November 06, 2016, 10:11:04 AM
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Hi guys I'm new here and I'm really interested in peoples cars.
I'm just wondering what clutch setups and gearboxes you V8 guys are using in your land speed cars?
thanks Lee
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Lee,
My B/GMS uses a Kennedy Engineered Products (KEP) clutch & flywheel. My transaxle is a Porsche G50 5-speed turned upside down.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Lee, my guess is if you get 50 guys to answer, you may get 2 with the same answer if you are lucky... in the liner we had a 2 disc Tilton and a B&J 4 speed with no neutral/reverse module.... don't do much backing up in LSR
:cheers:
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I run an PG/GV no torque converter for no lift shifting
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Any one running a Tremec T-56?
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Tremec TKO 600.
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Quartermaster 2 disc and Richmond 5 speed.
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C4 WITH a torque converter
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Anything that's user friendly, get's the job done & doesn't break. Not a fan of manual trans with a clutch as that wastes drive time plus loads & unloads the car when you shift.
Sid.
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Well Sid I know Al wasted a bit of time for shifting, but anywhere you were on the salt, you listened to the tune he was playing... :-D 8-) 8-) 8-)
The lakester is an airshifted bike transmission, not clutched, but unloaded for about 50ms every shift.
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I'm running a T-56. I am going to re-gear to only use 4 speeds. Too big a drop in 5th gear.
Will Willis
#6302
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Well Sid I know Al wasted a bit of time for shifting, but anywhere you were on the salt, you listened to the tune he was playing... :-D 8-) 8-) 8-)
The lakester is an airshifted bike transmission, not clutched, but unloaded for about 50ms every shift.
Yeah, Betsy had a Weismann transaxle from Noah's Ark.....I mean an old 50's Indy car. Once we got the shifter dialed in he only used the clutch to light it on the push truck. Good music alright!
Sid.
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Lee, my guess is if you get 50 guys to answer, you may get 2 with the same answer if you are lucky... in the liner we had a 2 disc Tilton and a B&J 4 speed with no neutral/reverse module.... don't do much backing up in LSR
:cheers:
I back up every day!!!!! :-D
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Ahhs and Ohs --
It was fun to hear the newbies when Al ran. Beautiful thunder and then no noise (ahh), then -- it seemed like eternity -- the sound increased (oh), at least down by the 3 or 4.
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Joanie always came to me when Al ran. She wanted a ride to the 3.5 - 4.5 so she could hear the car run.
DW
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Joanie always came to me when Al ran. She wanted a ride to the 3.5 - 4.5 so she could hear the car run.
DW
I had two vehicles that I made every effort to watch them/hear them if they ran.
(http://www.ugofadini.com/images/n12r91.jpg)
Al and his streamliner ...
http://www.ugofadini.com/teaguestory.html
.... and ....
(http://www.ugofadini.com/images/n18r94.jpg)
Carl and the Phoenix ....
http://www.ugofadini.com/phoenixstory.html
Sumner
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On the transmission deal....I think you are well served if you use a transmission where you can change the gearing as needed. We run a G-Force 101A in Hooley's Stude and I bought one for the lakester. It is a 4 speed where you can change all the gear ratios other than the 1 to 1 4th. 3rd can be run as an overdrive. 4th then becomes the 1 to 1 3rd. The overdrive can be a very small step vs. the larger step between the direct drive gear and overdrive that most of the street 5 and 6 speed transmissions have.
Depending on the car and other things you might never need the low 1st that the T-56 has. We use about a 1.90 first with the Stude and still can not use more than 50% throttle in first.
There are other transmissions similar to the G-Force. Check them out. For more on the G-force I have a page here....
http://1fatgmc.com/car/car-other-1/G-Force%20101%20Info-1.html
Sumner
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Joanie always came to me when Al ran. She wanted a ride to the 3.5 - 4.5 so she could hear the car run.
DW
I had two vehicles that I made every effort to watch them/hear them if they ran.
(http://www.ugofadini.com/images/n12r91.jpg)
Al and his streamliner ...
http://www.ugofadini.com/teaguestory.html
.... and ....
(http://www.ugofadini.com/images/n18r94.jpg)
Carl and the Phoenix ....
http://www.ugofadini.com/phoenixstory.html
Sumner
Carl didn't make a lot of noise but you could see where he'd been! :-D
Sid.
Here's some Carl.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jelwBGCcvSo
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Sid, great video, thanks for posting it.
....Carl didn't make a lot of noise but you could see where he'd been! :-D....
(http://www.ugofadini.com/images/n18r03.jpg)
http://www.ugofadini.com/phoenixstory.html
Yep, that big trail of smoke and then the shift.....no smoke.......then smoke again.
I also remember when he would blow one or the other front tire on almost every run and the truck would drop down on the skid next to the wheel. If I remember right those were the runs up to about 225. Then he found good tires, I think airplane tires, and no more blow-outs that I remember on up to over 285.
An unbelievable person and vehicle. Nothing like it on the salt now :cry:,
Sumner
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I was so lucky to be the timer on these cars and many others.
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"Nothing like it on the salt now."
No, not really like it, Sumner. But a 385 mph Triumph Spitfire (whatever) comes real close. We missed you for a couple of years; maybe you weren't around for that. I guess I could look it up (but I'm lazy), so I'll trust my faulty memory. Qualifier at 385. Back-up stalled out off the line at maybe the 1/2. Sat out there and (I heard) reprogrammed it, started it, ran about 345 for a 365 record.
Faster than a Cobra. Faster than a Firebird. Faster than a Roadster. Faster than a Triumph motorcycle for sure. Doesn't get much recognition.
Stan
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Since we've already hijacked this thread & everybody knows what to build their cage out of now, try this. :-D
Sid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx_7fFQbV1Q
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Nice hijack Sid.... but this thread is about Clutch and Gearbox, not cages. Keith's video is a prime example of a car that needs more gear... especially if he wants to go 400 :-o
Nice shifting, and a lot of wheel spin... anyone know what tranny he runs....
That will put us back on track :roll: :cheers:
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Woops! I knew we were discussing something. :-D :mrgreen:
Sid.
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I'm a newby to LSR, have not finished nor run my lakester yet, so it's subject to change. The clutch is an 8" 3-disc CrowerGlide full centrifugal that I'll set for full lockup between 4,000 and 4,500 RPM. Behind it is a Jerico 4-speed box using just 4th gear as an in/out box, and to cater to the QC behind it. I designed the inline QC (coaxial in/out, 2 gearsets) to allow gear changes without drain/refill of the lube. The front gearset is the "change" set- by sliding the input shaft ahead (in a splined coupler within the in/out box), sliding the countershaft back, and lifting the gearset out. (Total time of 7 minutes to be back on the track- worked well for a dozen seasons of mini-pulling). QC output direct to rearend via a Greek coupler at the pinion shaft.
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Your quickchange, Jack, deserves a thread of its own. :cheers:
With many pictures. 8-)
Mike
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+1 how about some pics Jack???
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My setup is pretty simple with a Billet TH400 & no converter but there's a bunch of junk after that to put it all the ground. A modified 4L80E adaptor to a rotated NP205 t-case & a planetary directdrive/overdrive unit at the rear diff. Front drive goes to a home built billet t-case with two 8" gears from a trackhoe pump drive to change the rotation through the other directdrive /overdrive at the front diff that is upside down facing backwards with a calculated final drive of .961.
In a single axle drive needing an overdrive I would use a 4L80E without the ECM, three micro switches & a ratchet shifter & you have a full manual. In stock form they survive on Duramax engines. Don't step up to an overdrive until you've arrived at the highest axle ratio you can get, overdriving to a lower axle ratio will cost you HP.
Sid.
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I think that Copeland is running an 8 speed Weisman tranny. They made it special for him.
Rex
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I think that Copeland is running an 8 speed Weisman tranny. They made it special for him.
Rex
Is that now vs. when the video was shot?
Here is my take after watching the video and probably not correct. The car obviously has tremendous HP. The video shows 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears. It looks like 1st through 3rd were basically useless. It would be interesting to know the transmission ratios and rearend ratios.
If the mph and tach data shown were correct here is what I saw.
1. The car was off the push vehicle about 5 sec. into the run and immediately experienced wheel spin with any throttle in 1st gear.
2. The 1-2 shift was at about 60 mph and rpm dropped to about 3300 after the 1-2 shift. Car was in 1st about 5 seconds before shift to 2nd. Second gear also seemed to experience severe wheel spin with any amount of throttle so the shift to 3rd was made about 7 seconds after getting into 3rd gear.
3. After the 2-3 shift rpm dropped to about 4000 with a car speed of about 110 mph. In third the same, wheel spin with any major throttle, so the car was shifted into 4th after about 8 seconds in third.
4. After the 3-4 shift the rpm dropped to a little under 4000 with the car running about 160.
5. The car then ran in 4th from 160 up to the top speed of 380 where the car was on the rev limiter. There wasn't much wheel spin in evidence while in 4th but no idea of the throttle position during this part of the run or the other gears. I'd guess they would also have a throttle position sensor and were data logging that.
If you have a lot of HP, like the car above, and the lower gears are very low you probably won't be spending much time in them. Their total time from the time the push vehicle started moving them until the shift into 4th at 160 was made was 25 seconds. I wonder if a higher 3rd along with a higher 4th would help the car. Maybe if they have a new transmission this has been addressed.
We found that with about 800+ HP with Hooley's car with the old engine we could never run WOT in 1st or 2nd and 1st was a high 1.93 with a 2.47 rear with about a 135 mph potential in 1st. Never got there also short shifted. We could run 3rd wide open and were in it for a long time before shifting into the overdrive 4th that was only 7% overdrive (.93)
One thing for sure is that their modified sports is one of the most impressive cars running right now :cheers:,
Sumner
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I just finished disassembly/cleaning/checking the QC; might get some photos as it goes together.
I don't know how much power is lost through it. A best-case figure for straight-cut spur gear sets is about 2-3%. My box is all ball bearings, and just enough lube level for one gear of each set to barely touch the lube, so maybe 6-7% loss?
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Sum,
The Weisman was a new transmission after the 380 mph run. I first saw it in the car at the 2014 test and tune. He was really developing the tranny along with Weisman at the time. 8 speeds should give lots of ratio choices.
Rex
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Sorry if this has been mentioned?
As the MPH goal goes up, or the engine's RPM power band shrinks (and especially if both), the value of a relatively small RPM % drop on the shift into high gear increases.
Yes, even though there are competitive cars with Powerglide and/or Gear Vendors (both of which have a geologic fault between penultimate and final gears) many would be faster if the gap were closed up, and (where necessity dictates) the gap transferred to a lower gear pair where weight (not air) is the primary resistance.