Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: gkabbt on October 02, 2016, 08:52:48 PM
-
So when I heard the other day that we're through here in Wilmington, this came to my alleged mind. :-D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15YgdrhrCM8
ECTA folks.....We'll Meet Again, Don't Know Where, Don't Know When..... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Gregg
-
Generous, when I saw the three word title of the thread -- Dr. Strangelove came into my (stipulated) mind, too. G'night.
-
Only made it there once - a great, straight track, but clearly an opportunity for Wilmington to turn it into jobs.
It's got me wondering what it's going to take to find a paved home for LSR?
I look at Cordova International - still in a rural setting with the potential to extend the track probably to a mile and a half, and it's got me wondering if there are existing facilities that might be willing or able to extend their tracks and widen their appeal?
Yes, it would require an investment, yes, it would require a commitment to probably 3 weekends per year, but I'm also thinking that unless we can garner some professional racing interest by those with promotional acumen and existing sponsorship deals, the best we'll ever be able to hope for is the life of refugee racers, blown hither and yon, squatting on unused facilities until we're cast aside to facilitate the next Amazon or Gryphon.
-
Trouble is for a mile run we need 1.9 - 2 miles and even if you could acquire the two fields you hit the road at 1.6 miles. Keep on looking though! :-)
-
Look up Global TransPark, Kinston, NC. 11,500 ft of flat, flat runway. :cheers:
-
The old air base in Blytheville, AR is already running one race with the US Mile folks and runs a lot of SCCA events too. It is 11,600 feet long. Hardly the east coast, but neither is southern Ohio.
-
The old air base in Blytheville, AR is already running one race with the US Mile folks and runs a lot of SCCA events too. It is 11,600 feet long. Hardly the east coast, but neither is southern Ohio.
Brian's already aware of Blytheville and he also told me that they have leads on several other facilities.
Hopefully it won't take to long to find out where we land!
Gregg
-
We, Rough Edges racing, are thinking about the closed Griffith Air Force base in Rome NY. It's home to an industrial park like Wilmington and has a 2.3 mile long runway...I believe the runway is still active so that may be a problem. Our race bike rider is a western NY state real estate developer and is personally interested in helping with this....Tony
-
Griffiss AFB sounds interesting. A Yahoo search didn't show that there is currently any aircraft use of the runways (?).
-
Griffiss AFB sounds interesting. A Yahoo search didn't show that there is currently any aircraft use of the runways (?).
I just searched it with Google earth, planes on the tarmac so I would assume it is still active
-
AirNav website shows average of 78 air operations daily.
-
When we lost Maxton, I was hoping for Kinston at 2.1 miles and running to NE. Griffiss is real nice at 2.5 miles but has a shorter season and the layout favors running NW.
-
With the loss of Wilmington hope we will see more of you at Loring.
-
Loring's Maine Event is on my schedule for '17. Hoping everything works out with no conflicts.
-
ECTA, Keith Turk and Brian Lohnes are very resourceful. I am confident that they will come up with a location to race.
-
Both Blytheville and Griffiss are old SAC bases. Typically they would have a 2 mile runway to accommodate fully loaded B-52 or KC-135 aircraft. Especially the 135 with original engines, they took forever to lift off! I crewed both during my Air Force days. I cannot say what other AFB setups were. I just worked on the big ones. Some info to help in your hunt for a track.
-
Look up Global TransPark, Kinston, NC. 11,500 ft of flat, flat runway. :cheers:
This place has once again lost all commercial flights in and out, it appears to be all but abandoned. They land private charters for ECU basketball and Football team competitors and that about it. Very different from last time it was looked into and Alegiant was trying to make a go at it.
-
Look up Global TransPark, Kinston, NC. 11,500 ft of flat, flat runway. :cheers:
This place has once again lost all commercial flights in and out, it appears to be all but abandoned. They land private charters for ECU basketball and Football team competitors and that about it. Very different from last time it was looked into and Alegiant was trying to make a go at it.
I would love to have the ECTA back in NC... it's still a long tow from S. Fla. but doable. Heck at Maxton we did not even race on the runway but a taxiway with a dog leg at the beginning and the shut down area. Would love to run ECTA again.
A guy can hope can't he!
BR
-
Ah, bill - close, but not right on. Maxton was, as I remember the story, a WWII glider pilot training base. The runway we used for racing had that kink/dogleg near the start to let geometry and stuff like that help launch the plane and the glider behind it.
To allow the plane's roll to being with a lesser load - the glider was behind but off at an angle to the plane - so the pull wasn't as difficult as it would be if the glider was straight behind the plane at the beginning. Put the plane at the beginning of the straight runway and the glider off to the starboard side behind -- and GO!
-
Slim:
I am sure you are right about glider proceedure but the Maxton track was a taxi way running parallel to the actual runway....now I may be wrong. There are others that know that place better than I do that may chime in.
BR
-
As of May of this year, average air operations 37/day at Kinston.
-
As of May of this year, average air operations 37/day at Kinston.
and a "little bird" told me that most of those were black ops flights. 8-)
-
Maxton the taxi way was the return road, the runway was the race "surface" if you will.
-
I just google mapped it and I stand corrected.
BR
-
Both Blytheville and Griffiss are old SAC bases. Typically they would have a 2 mile runway to accommodate fully loaded B-52 or KC-135 aircraft. Especially the 135 with original engines, they took forever to lift off! I crewed both during my Air Force days. I cannot say what other AFB setups were. I just worked on the big ones. Some info to help in your hunt for a track.
I have ridden at both Blytheville and Loring, they are both great. SAC bases usually have concrete that is 3 to 4 feet thick and are straight and very wide. At Loring after you run the mile and a half, you have to give it some gas to get to the turn around, no rushing to stop. Yes, I will make that 1600 mile drive a few times if they do not have a similar offering elsewhere. Blytheville will be running the Arkansas Mile in June, but I would much prefer to be running an ECTA event there.
-
I know this is an older thread, and I am just a noob on this forum, but I also hope that Stallings Field in Kinston is an option for ECTA use. It's a 9 hour tow from my place, at least, but that's about the same as Loring for me.
Just a bump for this line of discussion.
:-)
-
Hi Jim,
I'm originally from the York, PA area. Good to see a new poster.
-
Again, hardly east coast, but Oklahoma Space Port is 13503' and Spaceport America in NM is 12,000' and they are advertising for events.
-
ECTA has posted on facebook and the Ohio mile that a location may have been found however no racing until fall at the earliest. Photos were included with the post but not much in the way of information as to location.
-
Spaceport America website caters to event requests.
email: events@spaceportamerica.com
phone: 575-267-8500
Oklahoma Spaceport is experiencing much local frustration with lack of tenants and deteriorating structures.
Anybody within ECTA looked into these?
[Personally, I'd like to see SCTA or USFRA look at them as bad weather alternatives to Bonneville]
-
Spaceport America website caters to event requests.
email: events@spaceportamerica.com
phone: 575-267-8500
Oklahoma Spaceport is experiencing much local frustration with lack of tenants and deteriorating structures.
Anybody within ECTA looked into these?
[Personally, I'd like to see SCTA or USFRA look at them as bad weather alternatives to Bonneville]
Interesting but certainly not East Coast of the USA
-
Oklahoma makes Loring look all the better for East Coast people.
-
Oklahoma makes Loring look all the better for East Coast people.
I agree compleltly were lucky to have an excelent runway so were not left with no place to run here on the East Coast another plus is the 1 and 1.5 mile record potetal plus another mile to slow things down after the 1.5 mile clock.
Ron
-
I saw yesterday that Amazon was not going to use Wilmington but another airport in OHIO. Anyone else see this?
-
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/amazon-chooses-cvg-over-wilmington-airport-bring-thousands-jobs/CUI7NSJiPBi8pEirjxT0ML/
-
And to add insult to injury, Amazon will be laying off their existing employees in Wilmington too. Unless they have another paying customer lined up, Wilmington should be begging all of their old groups to come back - just don't schedule us on the same weekends that they have the dog shows!
-
Insurance, insurance, insurance.....
-
No one is greedier than insurance companies. I can get bound for $10 million in coverage in a matter of hours, that's not a hurdle.
-
It boils down to aviation insurance at a active runway, thus why no new spot has been found. Brian explained it all out on the ECTAs Facebook page
-
No one is greedier than insurance companies. I can get bound for $10 million in coverage in a matter of hours, that's not a hurdle.
You were saying.....
-
There are carriers that will insure anything. Those dealers who have special where you get a free car if it snows that day - they get a carrier to insure the risk. In my business we often have to get Lloyds of London to cover a policy. It can be done if you go to the right people. I am not an expert at aviation insurance, but if I was involved in trying to organize something like this I would work very hard to find a carrier who could help me. Racing vehicles are much easier to budget for than satellite launches or nuclear waste, I just don't see the issue.
-
There are carriers that will insure anything. Those dealers who have special where you get a free car if it snows that day - they get a carrier to insure the risk. In my business we often have to get Lloyds of London to cover a policy. It can be done if you go to the right people. I am not an expert at aviation insurance, but if I was involved in trying to organize something like this I would work very hard to find a carrier who could help me. Racing vehicles are much easier to budget for than satellite launches or nuclear waste, I just don't see the issue.
Bottom line, will the entry fees cover the insurance and other costs? I say this is likely the problem?
-
A long time ago we were drag racing on an airport runway. This was stopped and the reason given was that FFA did not allow an active runway used for anything but aircraft use.
-
From the FAA website info concerning airport operations...I don't know if this is still current...
1). Nonaeronautical Events.
An airport developed or improve
d with federal funds may not be
closed to use the airport facili
ties for special outdoor
events, such as sports car races, county
fairs, parades, car testing, mode
l airplane events, etc., without F
AA approval. This has been the
FAA policy since 1961 as outlined in
Compliance Requirements Part 6.00
(July 1961). In
certain circumstances where promoting aviati
on awareness through su
ch nonaeronautical
activities as model airplane fl
ying, etc., the FAA does support the
limited use of airport facilities
so long as there is not total cl
osure of the airport. In thes
e cases, safeguards need to be
established to protect the aeronaut
ical use of the airport while
the nonaeronautical activities are
in progress and to ensure that safety is not compromised.
-
There must have been an internal decision at Wilmington that caused them not to let us come back. If they turned SCTA away, it makes it sound like a no racing decision. I'm not sure what FAA regs had to do unless they slipped by initially by using the remote location we used.
I'm pretty sure Blytheville in Arkansas still has active flights there, so it must be something else. As for insurance costs being too high, they need to let us know and let the market decide. If they tell us it will be $750 per entry that may be too much, but at least give us a chance to decide.
-
There must have been an internal decision at Wilmington that caused them not to let us come back. If they turned SCTA away, it makes it sound like a no racing decision. I'm not sure what FAA regs had to do unless they slipped by initially by using the remote location we used.
I'm pretty sure Blytheville in Arkansas still has active flights there, so it must be something else. As for insurance costs being too high, they need to let us know and let the market decide. If they tell us it will be $750 per entry that may be too much, but at least give us a chance to decide.
Well, maybe we need to ask what the insurance and cost to put on the event adds up to for a weekend.....Must be a few insurance guys involved in LSR, they should have a clue....
As always, we all want to race but very few what to run the event...
-
very few are allowed to run the event....
-
Does Wilmington have 2 runways? That is how they got around closing McMinnville Or. for 1/2 mile drags in 2015 was the other runway was left open for the airplanes.
-
Does Wilmington have 2 runways? That is how they got around closing McMinnville Or. for 1/2 mile drags in 2015 was the other runway was left open for the airplanes.
Wilmington has 2 runways, one of which (the one we used) is CLOSED to air traffic (all during the ECTA time there and still was as of a month or so ago, last time I looked at the airport info). That is the reason we could use it. Not returning was a number of factors, including insurance, per the post on the ECTA website. Generally, the FAA is not going to allow non air use of a public use airport that is active. Some exceptions may have occurred but regs generally prohibit that.
-
Have there been discussions with these guys??
http://www.internationalmileracingassociation.com/
Using Kennedy Space Center with "Johnny Bohmer Proving Grounds"
-
Have there been discussions with these guys??
http://www.internationalmileracingassociation.com/
Using Kennedy Space Center with "Johnny Bohmer Proving Grounds"
This is very interesting, especially with the longer courses being available. It is roughly a 1000 mile drive for me, so a whole lot closer than Loring for me.
-
I talked to Johnny Bohmer over a year ago about potential testing at the Proving Grounds. They do not sanction or hold events, only private testing. He is only leasing the use of the property. When asked about costs for testing a motorcycle(s) costs for a day were over $15K. They are also very concerned about high speed stability on motorcycles regarding the corduroyed surface. They have never tested motorcycles there.
-
Ok. But the "international mile racing association" appeared to be having time trials there. Wonder about the arrangements.
-
Ok. But the "international mile racing association" appeared to be having time trials there. Wonder about the arrangements.
Looking on the Internet and the IMRA book of faces website, all I see is big buck late model super cars ???
-
Cecil field in Jacksonville, Fl. was a Naval Air Station and has a 12,500 ft asphalt/concrete runway and two 8,000 ft runways. It is now Cecil Commerce Center and they are looking for tenants to use the facility. It is still an active airport so that might be a problem but it might be worth looking into.
-
Contact info for "johnny bohmer proving grounds" is on his Facebook site with same name. Give him a call, maybe something has changed. Whether it is in Jacksonville or the Proving Grounds it sure would be nice to have a course in the South again!
-
Posted on the ECTA face Book site.....Sounds like the end ...
Tonya Turk
May 18 at 1:19pm
May 2017 update on the 2017 race season - We had high hopes for a new venue in Ohio. After meeting with the team from that site and driving the potential race areas, we determined that it would not work for us. We had also decided against the possible second option further south that would have required significant work to the area around the course and a high number of volunteers to run the event. At this point, we will not be able to provide any racing to our members for the 2017 race season.
We are also going to stop taking memberships for 2017. Please bear with us as we reorganize and continue to try to find a way for the organization to continue and to bring you racing going forward.
-
...sounds like they were not able to establish a doable venue for this season...
and working diligently on bringing future racing....
-
I saw Keith Turk at the Arkansas Mile event yesterday. This is a perfect venue and is ready to race, all it needs is ECTA and a bunch of drivers and riders.
-
I am in if it is ECTA sanctioned
-
Okay... I'm listening... :?
-
From my very limited understanding; the U.S. Mile folks (Texas, Colorado, Arkansas Miles) have an exclusive contract with the Gosnell Regional Airport Authority. However, I believe it could be worked out.
I raced there this past weekend and the track is only second to Loring. Extremely smooth and all kinds of additional room for pits, return, etc.... far, far improvement from Maxton.
-
I would like to see some pictures from Arkansas.
-
Not really East Coast wonder what rules are being used for inspections. Lots to ask but seems interesting.
-
I was at The Arkansas Mile event in support of my friend's 36HP VW Challenge car. The facility itself (runway, return road, etc) at Arkansas International Airport is in great shape.
There were plenty of cars and bikes well over 200 mph (top speed of the event was something like 237 mph), and no issues with the shutdown or turn-out areas.
The event was well organized.
The town of Blytheville is not as commercially developed as a place like Wilmington, OH. It may have been more economically active when the air base was open, but the air base closed in the '90's.
It seems like the Arkansas International Airport would easily accommodate the needs of ECTA events.
Steve.
-
For anyone interested, here's an album of pics from the recent Arkansas event...
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2aZ2pT
-
Then there are these guys. Unfortunately not a lot of private 9-10000 ft runways out there. Ocala getting close at 7550.
https://wannagofast.com/events/
-
At least we wouldn't have to pull the race car threw the WV mountains-----twice :roll:
-
Could more than one mile be run at Blytheville?
-
I'm only 100 miles from the Blytheville SAC Base. They use to land B52's there. Plus your only 80 miles north of Memphis TN. Lot's of hotels and places to eat. Don't believe you would have enough shutdown for anything more than a mile run.
-
I'm only 100 miles from the Blytheville SAC Base. They use to land B52's there. Plus your only 80 miles north of Memphis TN. Lot's of hotels and places to eat. Don't believe you would have enough shutdown for anything more than a mile run.
runway is 11600ft. Mile and a half would leave about 3600 stopping distance. Wilmington by comparison was 9000' leaving about the same stopping distance. Might be tight for the faster cars. Loring on the other hand is 12100' only 500' longer. Mile and a half might work.
-
Blytheville would easily accommodate a 1.5 mile course. At Loring on my first wide open pass at about 185 I got on the brakes when I was done and then realized I had to give it some gas to get to the turnaround. With "only" 3600' to slow down that is still 7/10s of a mile.
-
Blytheville would easily accommodate a 1.5 mile course. At Loring on my first wide open pass at about 185 I got on the brakes when I was done and then realized I had to give it some gas to get to the turnaround. With "only" 3600' to slow down that is still 7/10s of a mile.
I suspect you are correct but pretty sure a 250mph car takes longer to stop than a fast bike. :-D
-
I hope the ECTA is able to find a new place to run. Was getting ready to try my hand at building a car for this style of racing.
-
If it is a 11.000 foot runway, why is there only 1/2 mile shutdown? 11,000 feet is over two miles. That would be lots of shutdown for fast cars.......just saying.
-
If it is a 11.000 foot runway, why is there only 1/2 mile shutdown? 11,000 feet is over two miles. That would be lots of shutdown for fast cars.......just saying.
That is the suggested turn in, so that the runs go quicker. If you really need the room, you can go straight between the cones. At about 230 mph on my bike, the suggested turn in was just fine.
-
Haven't seen Blytheville but I've been to Maxton, Loring, and Wilmington. The number and location of taxi ways used to access and exit the main runway course is a big factor in overall course layout for safe and smooth traffic patterns. The taxi ways aren't always at the very beginning or end of a runway and the runways aren't always level on the ends. The total runway footage isn't always available for practical LSR use.
Ed
-
Wurtsmith Airport in Oscoda Michigan. 11,800 foot runway. From what I've heard, the chamber of commerce would love to have LSR events held in their town. It might take some work, but it would be worth it. Trying really hard might make it a success.
-
Nice to see so many ECTA cars at speedweek, good to hear Slim on the radio too. Great job by all, so intended to be there!
-
Not really East Coast wonder what rules are being used for inspections. Lots to ask but seems interesting.
I was in the planning stages to race at Arkansas. They really want "Y" rated DOT tires and will not accept any DOT drag radials. For me to get tires tall enough for my chassis required new rims and tires. I am heading to Loring.
-
Not really East Coast wonder what rules are being used for inspections. Lots to ask but seems interesting.
I was in the planning stages to race at Arkansas. They really want "Y" rated DOT tires and will not accept any DOT drag radials. For me to get tires tall enough for my chassis required new rims and tires. I am heading to Loring.
Those tire requirements will eliminate a lot of runway racers I would never waste the time and money for a tire chage just to race there! :-(
-
The AR mile was populated by more "Exotic" street cars than true LSR (salt type) cars, for sure. There were some very serious true LSR cars over 200 mph - not sure what they were using for tires.
I still have a way to go with either 1.5L or 2.0L diesel power to worry about Y rated tires, but I see that they are not common in many sizes.
Steve.
-
Can Powers that Be give us a little update? Working on something promising ,nothing promising out there.
-
No news is bad news RIP ECTA.....
-
No news is bad news RIP ECTA.....
We talked with Brian at Speedweek he said they are still looking for a site nothig solid but a few decent leads which they are investigating. Not RIP yet.
-
The venues running just a half mile seem to be able to find tracks, maybe ECTA could find something like that so we could have a place to run until a suitable mile is located. NO, I am not saying they should switch to 1/2 mile, I am only suggesting it as a substitute. Anything is better than my local 1/8th dragstrip or letting everything sit collecting dust.
-
The venues running just a half mile seem to be able to find tracks, maybe ECTA could find something like that so we could have a place to run until a suitable mile is located. NO, I am not saying they should switch to 1/2 mile, I am only suggesting it as a substitute. Anything is better than my local 1/8th dragstrip or letting everything sit collecting dust.
I had the opportunity a few weeks ago to run an 1/2 mile event at Marion, IN. Great runway, wide enough to run 2 vehicles at one time (which we did). Long enough that could actually run 1K and have a lot of shutdown. Active runway, but very few flights over the weekend. While it is nothing like running the mile, it wasn't bad.
-
Ransom, was tech about the same?
-
Well, to be honest....more of "self tech" than anything else. Yes, there was a bit of visual inspection of the helmets and such, but it was basically going through a checklist and signing yourself off.
Did I feel it was a safe event? yes. They had several EMTs, fire and safety positioned all over not just at the return road, but near the start and near the pits.
-
Thanks, might be worth looking into until something happens here.
-
Wurtsmith Airport in Oscoda Michigan. 11,800 foot runway. From what I've heard, the chamber of commerce would love to have LSR events held in their town. It might take some work, but it would be worth it. Trying really hard might make it a success.
This sounds really interesting. Any follow up by Tonya and hubby? :)
-
Well its East of the Mississippi I think But not East Coast
-
Well its East of the Mississippi I think But not East Coast
Well, it's kinda the East Coast of Lake Huron . . .
-
Maybe you meant the east coast of Michigan? "East Coast of Lake Huron" would be Ontario Province, which surely would be convenient to me- I used to drive there regularly to compete at events in Goderich.
-
In 2011 Hemmings magazine has an article about the ECTA losing it's racing at Maxon and was looking for another location....This statement was a comment on the situation...Don't know if it was really true then or now
The Oscoda-Wurtsmith Airport, a former Air Force Base at Oscoda, Michigan, is and has been available at $1,000 per day. You provide the timing equipment, ambulance and safety equipment. I know guys that have been doing testing there for the last couple of years, and I know guys that have run at Maxton. Wurtzmith is in much better condition and safer according to them.
-
Maybe you meant the east coast of Michigan? "East Coast of Lake Huron" would be Ontario Province, which surely would be convenient to me- I used to drive there regularly to compete at events in Goderich.
Got it. Aquacentric.
So, the West Bank Timing Association?
Do Michigan authorities negotiate with tourists?
-
I never really considered central Ohio East Coast. But it was a good place to race.
-
Another view: this country's only got two coasts, and Michigan sure ain't West Coast.
-
Geez, girls and boys - take a look at the map and you'll see that Nancy and I live on the NORTH coast of of the United States. :cheers:
-
What about the Gulf coast?
-
I think the Gulf coast is all underwater so there's not really a coast there just now. :roll:
-
I think the Gulf coast is all underwater so there's not really a coast there just now. :roll:
Uhhhmmm, technically, there would still be a coast, just further north . . . . . . .
:cheers: :dhorse:
-
Gee, Mark, I wuz wondering if anyone would think that one through. . . I'm glad at least you're awake.
-
Wurtsmith Airport in Oscoda Michigan. 11,800 foot runway. From what I've heard, the chamber of commerce would love to have LSR events held in their town. It might take some work, but it would be worth it. Trying really hard might make it a success.
This sounds really interesting. Any follow up by Tonya and hubby? :)
Geography observations aside, I repeat...Any idea if ECTA is pursuing this venue? It sure sounds interesting. :)
Rick
-
I have seen little if any evidence that Keith, Tanya or Brian follow what goes on here. I'd suggest sending them direct emails to bring sites like this to their attention and see what they say.
-
The ECTA facebook page does not receive their attention for long periods either.
-
Anybody have their email address? I'd be happy to follow up if you'd post it (or PM it to me). I used to have Keith's cell, but it's not in my directory anymore.
Rick
-
all on the website under "contacts" .http://www.ecta-lsr.com/
-
Is the ECTA still in business? Last I heard they stopped taking membership dues in Spring of this year??
-
That would tend to make me believe they were honest in their dealings. Shouldn't take dues until they've got a venue to offer.
-
For what it is worth; and I know I will probably get shoes thrown at me ....
It's October and still no word. I have some very good sponsors that are asking for my tentative schedule for next season, it's hard to put in ECTA events when all I hear is "chirp, chirp, chirp"....
-
For what it is worth; and I know I will probably get shoes thrown at me ....
It's October and still no word. I have some very good sponsors that are asking for my tentative schedule for next season, it's hard to put in ECTA events when all I hear is "chirp, chirp, chirp"....
You bring up a really good point.
I've pursued a few sponsorship opportunities, but with ECTA, and lately, Bonneville, what can a racer realistically expect to contribute to a sponsor's expectations for ROI?
Other than dragging your bike/car to well attended car shows, our visibility is crushed due to lack of venues and opportunities.
We mostly do this because we love it, but to drag a sponsor in at this point, with any expectation of return on their investment, would be tantamount to fraud.
-
Well, at this point in time you might have to admit there might not be ECTA racing in 2018? ...It just might be the end of it forever....On the other hand,there's nothing stopping any LSR racers from looking into the use of the runway in Michigen and form their own racing organization...
-
We're still looking at half mile just to keep Amy in seat time. We are lucky that there are 3 events within a half days ride.....Our goal is still to get Amy over 200 in a mile somewhere could have done it in Ohio if there was some racing. :dhorse:
-
You bring up a really good point.
I've pursued a few sponsorship opportunities, but with ECTA, and lately, Bonneville, what can a racer realistically expect to contribute to a sponsor's expectations for ROI?
Other than dragging your bike/car to well attended car shows, our visibility is crushed due to lack of venues and opportunities.
We mostly do this because we love it, but to drag a sponsor in at this point, with any expectation of return on their investment, would be tantamount to fraud.
I've been really blessed that I have "carved" out some sponsorships from the drag, road race worlds and was able to attend some events this past year that's kept everyone happy except for me. It's not been the easiest (time wise) to get events in, then I have large time gaps in which events are not...
-
Captthundar if you got enough car Loring ME has enough runway(11/2 miles) to get to 200 MPH, Probably about 2 day drive from NC.
-
Loring Timing Assoc. also measures your speed in the one mile, you don't have to run under power for the full mile and a half.
-
More like 3 days ride for us. Blytheville Ark. is 2 day but they have a weird tire requirement.
-
For what it is worth; and I know I will probably get shoes thrown at me ....
It's October and still no word. I have some very good sponsors that are asking for my tentative schedule for next season, it's hard to put in ECTA events when all I hear is "chirp, chirp, chirp"....
Several weeks ago I used FB messenger on the ECTA page to stir the pot on behalf of the Michigan venue mentioned above. I got a reply that it had been considered but that it was on the back shelf because of the limited lodging opportunities in that area. I then urged the ECTA to pool all the recent Ohio Mile competitors to see if there would be sufficient interest - even if it meant camping out. The reply was that other opportunities are being examined. I'd like to be optimistic following that reply, but I'm not. I hope I'm wrong, but it sort of feels like there's limited motivation to get a Midwest site... :?
Rick
-
For what it is worth; and I know I will probably get shoes thrown at me ....
It's October and still no word. I have some very good sponsors that are asking for my tentative schedule for next season, it's hard to put in ECTA events when all I hear is "chirp, chirp, chirp"....
Several weeks ago I used FB messenger on the ECTA page to stir the pot on behalf of the Michigan venue mentioned above. I got a reply that it had been considered but that it was on the back shelf because of the limited lodging opportunities in that area. I then urged the ECTA to pool all the recent Ohio Mile competitors to see if there would be sufficient interest - even if it meant camping out. The reply was that other opportunities are being examined. I'd like to be optimistic following that reply, but I'm not. I hope I'm wrong, but it sort of feels like there's limited motivation to get a Midwest site... :?
Rick
Just the thought of camping out is a turn off for me and my family. After spending all day racing in the hot sun being able to shower and relax in AC cannot be beat as far as I'm concerned. Give me a location I can race at in an area with lodging some places to get food as well as a parts house or hardware store if needed and I'm ready to go. The way I see it the powers to be at ECTA are looking for the best possible location not just someplace to fill the void.
Ronnieroadster
-
For what it is worth; and I know I will probably get shoes thrown at me ....
It's October and still no word. I have some very good sponsors that are asking for my tentative schedule for next season, it's hard to put in ECTA events when all I hear is "chirp, chirp, chirp"....
You bring up a really good point.
I've pursued a few sponsorship opportunities, but with ECTA, and lately, Bonneville, what can a racer realistically expect to contribute to a sponsor's expectations for ROI?
Other than dragging your bike/car to well attended car shows, our visibility is crushed due to lack of venues and opportunities.
We mostly do this because we love it, but to drag a sponsor in at this point, with any expectation of return on their investment, would be tantamount to fraud.
Did you seriously just use the term ROI and Land Speed Sponsorship in the same sentence? If there were even a 1% ROI we'd all have sponsors. I personally am not interested in towing 11enty hours and camping just to a make a few passes, and camp again and drive 11enty hours home. As you've all should have deduced if it was easy to find a VIABLE runway we'd already be racing.
-
Ya know, they don't build runways that after a while, the staff dosen't have places to stay more than an hour or two away. Having to drive a little each day for a hot shower and a good bed is not a real hurdle.
-
Did you seriously just use the term ROI and Land Speed Sponsorship in the same sentence? If there were even a 1% ROI we'd all have sponsors.
Yeah, I seriously used ROI and LSR in the same paragraph. :-D
I actually sat through a panel discussion at PRI a few years ago, touting the financial potential of Bonneville to those in the racing industry. "Landspeed Louise" wrote an article about it a few months back in the PRI trade magazine.
I suppose if you run a 400+ mph car, a sponsor might be interested in associating with your effort - but I walked away from the discussion and the article unconvinced.
For every LSR engine a shop sees, they'll see dozens, if not hundreds, or possibly thousands of drag, road racing, dirt track or modified street engines come and go through their shops.
I'm always amazed when anybody gets a sponsorship deal in this sport, and here's why -
Think about the demographic of an average Land Speed Racer. Most are permitted the privilege of ordering discounted breakfast specials at Denny's. Is this a demographic anyone other than a supplemental Medicare insurer would want to capture?
When was the last time any of us bought a product because we were made aware of it via an LSR event? I think it's safe to say that the Big 10 Championship game at Lucas Stadium has done more to raise awareness of Lucas petroleum products than LSR.
Monster sponsored Speedweek for a while, but do any of us have it in their fridge, or even an empty can rolling around on the floor of their car or garage?
Start with Bonneville - world renowned - and held in higher regard overseas than in the States. To that point, the ONLY sponsorship interest I was even remotely able to draw into a sit-down was a brewer in England. That ended abruptly when I explained the BLM wouldn't likely countenance a beer-vendor at the event.
Why would a company offer up cash to support an entry into an event seen by fewer than 10,000 people in a busy year, half of whom are associated with other participants, when that event is spread out over 30 square miles of inhospitable wasteland, on 3 or 4 separate courses, and not even broadcast on a 3rd tier cable network, nor accurately covered by media in any form, save Slim's webcast? Did I mention that most of the spectators leave after the second day of a seven-day event? Did I mention that the surface is deteriorating? Did I mention that it's been rained out twice in the last 4 years, with no possibility of rescheduling?
I'm a fan of ECTA events, but realistically, any potential for a sponsor decreases precipitously when you move to a track without an established pedigree or cache. Bonneville's been around for 100+ years - Wilmington came and went in five.
And as nice as Wilmington was, any given 1/3 mile clay oval in any Midwestern state on any given Friday night will outdraw an ECTA event.
There's just not enough pairs of eyes to warrant the expense.
So yeah - I think LSR is largely unsponsorable - and I am happy for those who have worked the magic of convincing anybody that there is any potential ROI in this sport.
-
I was stationed at Wurtsmith AFB for 12 years. A good number of hotels within 20 miles of the base and more in Alpena Mi. just 45 miles north. Oscoda air park is racer friendly. A beautiful part of the USA.
John
-
I believe that the suggestion to pool members on what is really important is a great idea.The event is for the racers and they do pay for racing..I also believe the majority of racers could deal with camping out if that was the only option ...However, you still need enough portable toilets and an actual place for several hundred people to camp...
-
Did you seriously just use the term ROI and Land Speed Sponsorship in the same sentence? If there were even a 1% ROI we'd all have sponsors.
Yeah, I seriously used ROI and LSR in the same paragraph. :-D
I actually sat through a panel discussion at PRI a few years ago, touting the financial potential of Bonneville to those in the racing industry. "Landspeed Louise" wrote an article about it a few months back in the PRI trade magazine.
I suppose if you run a 400+ mph car, a sponsor might be interested in associating with your effort - but I walked away from the discussion and the article unconvinced.
For every LSR engine a shop sees, they'll see dozens, if not hundreds, or possibly thousands of drag, road racing, dirt track or modified street engines come and go through their shops.
I'm always amazed when anybody gets a sponsorship deal in this sport, and here's why -
Think about the demographic of an average Land Speed Racer. Most are permitted the privilege of ordering discounted breakfast specials at Denny's. Is this a demographic anyone other than a supplemental Medicare insurer would want to capture?
When was the last time any of us bought a product because we were made aware of it via an LSR event? I think it's safe to say that the Big 10 Championship game at Lucas Stadium has done more to raise awareness of Lucas petroleum products than LSR.
Monster sponsored Speedweek for a while, but do any of us have it in their fridge, or even an empty can rolling around on the floor of their car or garage?
Start with Bonneville - world renowned - and held in higher regard overseas than in the States. To that point, the ONLY sponsorship interest I was even remotely able to draw into a sit-down was a brewer in England. That ended abruptly when I explained the BLM wouldn't likely countenance a beer-vendor at the event.
Why would a company offer up cash to support an entry into an event seen by fewer than 10,000 people in a busy year, half of whom are associated with other participants, when that event is spread out over 30 square miles of inhospitable wasteland, on 3 or 4 separate courses, and not even broadcast on a 3rd tier cable network, nor accurately covered by media in any form, save Slim's webcast? Did I mention that most of the spectators leave after the second day of a seven-day event? Did I mention that the surface is deteriorating? Did I mention that it's been rained out twice in the last 4 years, with no possibility of rescheduling?
I'm a fan of ECTA events, but realistically, any potential for a sponsor decreases precipitously when you move to a track without an established pedigree or cache. Bonneville's been around for 100+ years - Wilmington came and went in five.
And as nice as Wilmington was, any given 1/3 mile clay oval in any Midwestern state on any given Friday night will outdraw an ECTA event.
There's just not enough pairs of eyes to warrant the expense.
So yeah - I think LSR is largely unsponsorable - and I am happy for those who have worked the magic of convincing anybody that there is any potential ROI in this sport.
OK . . . Sooo, this is what I know, in order. Based on my experience of 46+ years in various segments of the "Racing Engine Industry".
I sat through the same "discussion". My impression was that the speaker(s) knew little about the financial realities of running the "average" racing engine shop, ie, they were marketing people. Successful sponsorship at the lower levels is dependent on ROI. If there is no ROI for a small business, THERE IS NO REASON TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY "PROGRAM". Big corporations, different deal. BUT, my experience is that "they" want ROI also. Corporations only provide "free lunches" to their employees, and not so much anymore. It's about "belt-tightening" and "profit-taking". Go figure . . . . .
40+ years into my "career" and I had never seen, or had firsthand contact with an LSR effort, UNTIL CHRIS CONTACTED ME. And that contact was just a "shot in the dark" seeking rare information.
In the majority of shops where I've been, there is NO LSR presence. NONE. And in the shop where I currently am, which is drag and street centric, THE ONLY LSR PROJECT IS THE ONE CHRIS & I "DRAGGED IN". They are happy to be associated with a record setting effort, but there just is not enough business available to chase the "local" competitors. And I'm talking competitors from a 3/4 state area here. They have drag customers that come to their shop from as far away as Georgia and Florida. Now I know that there are several LSR efforts in Wisconsin and Illinois. What engine shops are they using? ? ?
It's not like they were unaware of LSR, AND, Bonneville is held in high regard. BUT, their only exposure was to the top end, high dollar efforts in magazines and perhaps on WIDE WORLD of SPORTS. And let's face it, those efforts are either concentrated in southern California or in small "pockets" of LSR activity scattered across the country.
And as far as camping is concerned, I did it when I was younger. Now my old bones cry out for a shower and a comfortable bed to sleep in at the end of a day in the "wilderness". If you think I'm cranky normally, you don't want a piece of me after a restless night!!!
JMO and 2¢ . . . . .
:cheers: :dhorse:
DraggedintoLSRboy
-
Hmmm? I now starting to realized how blessed I am as it pertains to LSR sponsorships. I am associated with a individually owned small motorcycle performance shop here in Lexington (H&H Racing). The shop has 1 full time employee (owner/mechanic), 1 part time-me (the tuner/electronics), and that's it. Small jobs like tire mounting tires, machining, etc.. is farmed out, but only under the careful watch of the owner.
At any given time in the shop, other than my LSR bikes, we have 2,3,4 or more bikes that LSR. Granted a lot more drag bikes are worked on, but an LSR presences is in the shop.
Other than H&H Racing listed above, I have 2 other sponsors that directly or indirectly help pay for actual racing expenses outside of products; Ignite Race Fuels and KPMI (Kibble White). I have 4 sponsors that "give me at no cost" products that I actually use; Brock Davidson Performance (whole bunch of stuff), Tiger Racing, Alisyn Oil, and Wizard of NOS. Then I have 5 sponsors that I purchase products/services from that are greatly discounted (below dealer) Galfer USA, Worldwide Bearings, Vortex, Rider’s Discount, and Cooper Performance.
-
Ransom: How cool of you to have managed to gather some "real" support. You've gotta be one of the few that have had so much success.
Most of us have heard of the "big" names you mention, but that your local shop gives you so much is worthy of some note. Thanks for telling us.
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
-
Chris:
"Monster sponsored Speedweek for a while, but do any of us have it in their fridge, or even an empty can rolling around on the floor of their car or garage?"
Yes, their sponsorship worked on me. Now I'm addicted to Monster Absolutely Zero. Good stuff. Maybe their big black tent blowing away in a windstorm that last year had something to do with their dropping sponsorship... or maybe not.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
-
So what would all of the above mean to the ECTA for finding a location to hold events at? The way I see it absolutely nothing. Kind of losing the focus of we will meet again. :dhorse:
-
O.K. then ...
Blytheville, AK - closed air force base, Texas Mile folks hold 1 event there each year. Very smooth track....
Kinston Regional, NC - former Naval Base, long enough to do 1.5 mile runs. Black Ops did fly out of there, but my sources say that has stopped. Very limited flights.
Oscoda-Wurtsmith Airport, MI - another one that you could do 1.5 mile runs, is up for rent.
Everything else I have looked at is either too short or has too much traffic.
-
Hmm, So here we all are sitting on our asses expecting someone else to find a track? Perhaps new people need to step up and make arrangements with the location in Michigan as it certainly sounds like it meets the needs...
-
Hmm, So here we all are sitting on our asses expecting someone else to find a track? Perhaps new people need to step up and make arrangements with the location in Michigan as it certainly sounds like it meets the needs...
Are you proposing a new sanctioning body, or stepping up to offer time to the ECTA to help get this done?
A ton of time and effort to make the former happen:
1. Make the contacts with the civic/government officials
2. Chase down insurance
3. Wait out the decision makers at the local level as to whether or not they will or won't
4. Put into place a rule book and distribute it to potential racers
5. Get your hands on 450 orange cones
6. Find timing equipment that is verifiable, accurate and indestructible
7. Put together the group of volunteers to run the event
8. Get out the press releases and hope they get disseminated through as much media as possible
9. Follow through on those press releases, including phone interviews, local news and camera crews
10. Collect membership and entry fee monies
11. Pay for the facility rental
12. Take care of the next 3 dozen things that we can't imagine will pop up before a car or bike even turns a wheel
That the ECTA has done as much as they have over the last 20 years is hugely remarkable. They have the expertise, the connections, and the good will of a lot of racers to draw upon.
But it does seem as though they've been unusually quiet of late.
-
Hmm, So here we all are sitting on our asses expecting someone else to find a track? Perhaps new people need to step up and make arrangements with the location in Michigan as it certainly sounds like it meets the needs...
Are you proposing a new sanctioning body, or stepping up to offer time to the ECTA to help get this done?
My take is that we could help move things along by assisting the hard working ECTA folks. For starters, is there a Land Speed racer living near that Michigan facility who can develop a full list of local lodging options (with distances from the facility)? And since hotel availability seemed to the major drawback mentioned by the ECTA, we might be of some help by validating (or refuting) that belief. Any takers from somebody who can do that?
Based on the original comment made above regarding the availability of that site, it appears there may well be genuine interest on the part of the local authorities to host an LSR event. If true, that is a major potential obstacle out of the way.
Rick
-
Milwaukee Midget
Your list of needs is outstanding truly an in your face to the reality of what its going to take if and when a new location is found. Many of us have no idea what it takes to put on these events. The fact the ECTA has an excellent track record on how to do it and do it well for such a long time leaves me wanting to support their efforts since I know when it happens their events will be hard to beat.
Ronnieroadster
-
Milwaukee Midget
Your list of needs is outstanding truly an in your face to the reality of what its going to take if and when a new location is found. Many of us have no idea what it takes to put on these events. The fact the ECTA has an excellent track record on how to do it and do it well for such a long time leaves me wanting to support their efforts since I know when it happens their events will be hard to beat.
Ronnieroadster
I believe most do know it's a lot of work......and that's why there's so few willing to help out... :-D
-
RACING IN 2018 IS ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Check the Facebook page!
-
YES!!!!
-
ALRIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Via a 3rd party for those like me that don't do face book : Blytheville Arkansas April 20 -22, June 2 - 3, Sept 28 -30.
Ed
-
I hope wherever, whatever that is, that the BLM is not involved.
-
Here is a direct cut and paste from the Facebook entry that Tonya posted today . . . .
"Racing in 2018 is a go!! We have secured three dates for 2018 at the airstrip in Blytheville, AR. MEMBERSHIPS WILL NOT START UNTIL JANUARY 1st.
Mark your calendars for the following dates:
April 20 - 22
June 2 - 3
September 28 - 30
Please be patient with us as we start putting all of this together to move forward. We know you want to make your 2018 plans, so our first goal was to get you dates. Everything else is still in the planning stage."
Time to get back into the garage. Where did I put that to-do list?
-
Just when I was starting to enjoy the 24 hour drives to Bonneville, I hear that ECTA will be 3 hours from home. This is great news for me, thanks Keith.
-
"Central Coast" Timing Association? :-D
Anyhow- glad that ECTA will be alive again.
-
The bank of one of the largest water ways is located about 15 miles east of Blytheville...
So yes Jack, Central Coast would be appropriate, but don't expect a name change from the organization....
They have enough paperwork to do :cheers:
-
Teice as far as Loring for us but entirely doable.I'm sure whatever date we choose it will be a lot warmer than Loring.
-
Well its two days drive and two days back plus a couple of days running that's extremely hard for my crew chief to get the time off from the job looks like it wont work out for us. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.
Ronnieroadster