Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: biglady112 on October 19, 2015, 10:23:45 AM
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We are a big powered FWD car and next year we are looking to do our first mile event and if we can gather enough cash make the trip to California and try and run the Mojave Magnum 1.5 mile course. We have been using our drag tires for the past few years at a few half mile events and a 23x7" tire has never been big enough. It is a full bias ply slick and I am sure at 182mph in the half mile this last year we were well past its speed rating.
We are looking for a tire that is going to help the car stick as we are coming with more power next year. It needs to be 8-10" wide and 24-27" in diameter. I called Hoosier tires this morning and was not given good news at all about a tire that is listed on the Mojave Mile's website as being legal for the speeds we are shooting for. Hoosier lists all of their tires at 168mph and we already are well past that in a half of a mile.
Anyone have any insight? I am bringing a set of rims home in two weeks that we intend on using and it would be nice to confirm if anyone has used something that can be trusted. A land speed tire is not enough contact patch with our FWD car and all we would do is spin and destroy the tires.
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Off the top of my head, radial drag tires is where I'd be looking.
Sid.
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So far Hoosier and Mickey Thompson told me there is no wide tires in any compound they sell that are rated for anything near those speeds. M&H did not answer yet.
The Mojave Mile is stating to use the Hoosier R6 and R7 tires which is a road racing tire for more information.
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...It needs to be 8-10" wide and 24-27" in diameter. ...
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/landspeed%20tires-1.jpg)
I'd look at the Eagle Land Speed 2291 tire as a possibility. Not sure if anyone is using these for the mile events or not. Talk to Goodyear and anyone that might have used these. At 28 inches a little larger in diameter than what you asked for but you might have to work on the car so that it fits the tire.
I believe some have also run some of the NASCAR tires at these events. I think to run any of these landspeed tires you are going to have to keep tire spin to a minimum so you can't run the car exactly like you would for the 1/4 mile.
Here is a link that might help with Goodyear...
http://www.racegoodyear.com/tires/pdf/Drag_010313.pdf (http://www.racegoodyear.com/tires/pdf/Drag_010313.pdf)
and another....
http://www.nwr4racing.com/goodyear-drag-racing-tires/landspeed/hard-2270-280-x10-15 (http://www.nwr4racing.com/goodyear-drag-racing-tires/landspeed/hard-2270-280-x10-15)
Drag racing also has the 10 inch tire class where cars are running over 200. Maybe some of the tires they are running in that series would work...
https://www.google.com/search?q=drag+racing+10+inch+tire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=drag+racing+10+inch+tire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)
Sumner
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That is 5" more diameter. I really don't think we can fit the. It is hard enough for most guys to run 24.5" tires on these cars. It would be a monster truck. And the rims I intended on using are 16". The limits me a little more. The problem I have is it is a steer and drive tire. And this being a small displacement, very large turbo car we have to drive it like we would at the drag strip. It is just too laggy to try and mess around. We loose too much track trying to keep the traction down. And at this time we are not interested in a multi-stage boost controller as it spins with anything over 400hp. And it makes far more than that at only 15psi.
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...And the rims I intended on using are 16"....
Maybe look for the tire first and then get the rims that will work with it. They might have to be made for your application. One source of reasonable priced rims if they can come up with what you need is ....
http://mrt-wheels.com/ (http://mrt-wheels.com/)
They made wheels for my lakester and Hooley and others run their rims at Bonneville,
Sumner
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I think the Langlo's run those (tires) at Bville, and most likely had them on at the Mojave Mile. John? Troy?
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Bassett made mine.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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So far Hoosier and Mickey Thompson told me there is no wide tires in any compound they sell that are rated for anything near those speeds. M&H did not answer yet.
I hate shopping for shoes.
I would not hold my breath waiting on the return call from M&H, and honestly, I'm surprised anyone at Hoosier got back to you. They're good people, but when the term "LSR" comes into play, the shade on the window drops pretty fast.
I was talking to a Hoosier rep at Road America a number of years back, and when "Bonneville" came up, he almost took the catalog out of my hands.
M&H wouldn't sell me 4 drag fronts directly when they found out I was running Bonneville. The conversation was something to the effect of "I know people do it - we won't condone it". I ordered them through Summit after talking with other racers.
I seem to recall you've built a Mitsubishi . . . something . . . sorry I don't directly recall. Anything in a Z-rated HP street tire, perhaps? Do you need to run the 16s to clear brakes/suspension?
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I am not married to the rims my friend has, they are just affordable AND have the correct offset to clear a big tire. The rim size is not important for brake clearance. The only small issue we have is the car is a 4x114.3 lug pattern. So that really limits us on wheels. That said, WELD has a few rims that even look good that can work for us. So rim size is not a hurdle. Tire size is.
I spoke with Goodyear and the pointed me to the monster truck 28" tire mentioned above. I am just not sure on the Hoosier R6/R7. I know guys are running them but, the Hoosier dude said it is a major risk taking it to that speed anything more than a 1/4 mile. And we think this car will be in the 215-225mph range in the mile and obviously faster in the mile and a half. And we really want to make sure we stay safe as he did 182mph in the half mile with a 23" bias ply slick and the stock three point seat belts and no other safety equipment. I think how nasty the car was this year proved it is time we get serious with this car and safety.
The car is a 1989 Mitsubishi Mirage.
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I think the Langlo's run those (tires) at Bville, and most likely had them on at the Mojave Mile. John? Troy?
Yeah Bob...we ran the 2291 at the Mojave Mile and they hooked up great. They spun a bit at the top of 1st gear on our ist run
but power was going away after that due to a bad 02 sensor, but still got to an indicated 227 mph on data logger, after speed limits were lifted.
JL222
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....The only small issue we have is the car is a 4x114.3 lug pattern....
When I was going to run....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/rear-surface%20plate-1.jpg)
... the Datsun rear in the lakester Marsh made up....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/tires-wheels-1.jpg)
.... some 4 hole rims for well under $100 each at the time,
Sumner
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I am not married to the rims my friend has, they are just affordable AND have the correct offset to clear a big tire. The rim size is not important for brake clearance. The only small issue we have is the car is a 4x114.3 lug pattern. So that really limits us on wheels. That said, WELD has a few rims that even look good that can work for us. So rim size is not a hurdle.
No drag radial manufacturer will tell you anything . . . it's a liability issue, even though drag racers in X275 classes go stupid fast using these very same tire brands. MT, Hoosier, and M & H all nearly hung up the phone when we told them for what we were planning on using their products. We've run MT's ET Street to 169 in the mile, 203 out the back door. Many, if not most other (faster) LSR racers use drag radials, use mid/high-20's PSI and simply keep a good eye on them. Since there's no burnout or "launch", we've found that a quality, well-maintained set can last quite a while.
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The Hoosier R7 is rated for 235 mph at Mojave, and they have 4 sizes in the 16" rim: https://tiresize.com/tires/Hoosier/R7.htm (https://tiresize.com/tires/Hoosier/R7.htm)
Here is our current list of acceptable non-DOT racing tires: http://mojavemile.com/images/pdf/dot_racing_radial_tire_list_2015.pdf (http://mojavemile.com/images/pdf/dot_racing_radial_tire_list_2015.pdf)
Refer to the Tech Speed Chart here to learn how fast we allow tires to go: http://mojavemile.com/images/pdf/tech_speed_chart_mojave_2015.pdf (http://mojavemile.com/images/pdf/tech_speed_chart_mojave_2015.pdf)
Mike Borders
General Manager, MKM Racing Promotions
Mojave Mile/Magnum Race Director
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Separate issue but ECTA as well as SCTA (don't know about Mojave) require 5 lug wheels when over 200mph and certain tire sizes. Have seen a racer get bounced out of impound/sig discussion about this issue after a 200mph pass (Speed Week).114.3=4.5". You may be able to redrill your hubs for 5 lug wheels or otherwise convert them.
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I know about the 5 lug rule and will not be modifying the car nor will we be installing other OEM Mitsubishi components as it throws the alignment so far off it is ridiculous all the modifications that have to be done to get a straight alignment. I doubt this car will ever make it to Ohio. We are not looking for any certified records, just trying to go as fast as we can afford. We will run open lug nuts and use safety wire on top of that and hope that we have showed we are willing to make an effort for safety. And this car will likely not see the salt flats either. It has been a drag car for over ten years and slowly converting to a pavement LSR car over the past three seasons.
I have read your rules Mike but, my problem is what you allow and what the manufacturer recommend is on two ends of the spectrum. This is mine and my driver's lives at hand here and we fully believe we will be at these speed thresholds with the new setup and want to make sure we do our part to be safe.
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What's Reichen run? He's been over 230. His car doesn't look like a monster truck.
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Reichen uses drag radials (not sure which brand)... and yes, he's been 237 in the mile (at Ohio, no less!)
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Converting to a 5 lug pattern is not too difficult. My rear hubs are from a Porsche 996 and although it had 5 lugs, they were metric and the bolt pattern was 130mm. Only Porsche racing wheels would fit and they were not available in a decent selection of rim widths and back spacing choices, as well as being $$$.
I had the hubs drilled for five 5/8" UNC studs on a 5" diameter bolt circle. This way I could use circle track wheels- cheap and available in many sizes. QED.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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I know about the 5 lug rule and will not be modifying the car nor will we be installing other OEM Mitsubishi components as it throws the alignment so far off it is ridiculous all the modifications that have to be done to get a straight alignment. I doubt this car will ever make it to Ohio. We are not looking for any certified records, just trying to go as fast as we can afford. We will run open lug nuts and use safety wire on top of that and hope that we have showed we are willing to make an effort for safety. And this car will likely not see the salt flats either. It has been a drag car for over ten years and slowly converting to a pavement LSR car over the past three seasons.
I have read your rules Mike but, my problem is what you allow and what the manufacturer recommend is on two ends of the spectrum. This is mine and my driver's lives at hand here and we fully believe we will be at these speed thresholds with the new setup and want to make sure we do our part to be safe.
Please contact me privately and we can discuss your issues one-on-one. While you are correct, we base our limits on seven years of experience running standing mile events plus twenty years of experience in Open Road Racing events, where Unlimited cars (mine included) ran at sustained speeds of over 220 mph for up to 130 miles. If you thought it was tough trying to get tire makers to talk to you about Bonneville, imagine what they do to Open Road Racers who call them about tires! In both types of events, tire failures are the #1 cause of mishaps, so we do not take tire speed limits lightly. So far, we haven't seen a single tire failure at a Mojave event. FWIW, the R7 has proved to be a rock-steady performer in standing mile events, and we have a number of participants who have logged many, many passes over 200 mph on them without a mishap.
Mike
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Neil said: " QED."
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I didn't think anyone else remembered those letters. Thanks for the smile.
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Chalk one up for SSS! 8-)
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Neil said: " QED."
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I didn't think anyone else remembered those letters. Thanks for the smile.
Wow SSS knows Latin............. I had to look it up :cry: :oops: :cry:
Sum
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Well, PDQ, FBI, WTF, and, for good measure, BFE~! Sotto Voce, and never the twain shall diverge. :roll:
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Ya but do you know what "deus ex machina" really means!
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Ya but do you know what "deus ex machina" really means!
What the salt needs now 8-),
Sum
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Sumner, that is so true! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pete
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:-D :-D :-D :-D :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Converting the hubs isn't a problem on his mirage.
The road race type tires are the way to go. Plenty of sizes available from Hoosier. Unless you can find some smaller discard nascar tires.
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I recall a carefully handwritten note in my (2nd hand) Latin phrase book, from 50 odd years ago "Latin is a language as dead as dead can be, it killed the ancient Romans, and now it's killing me!" "QED" is so firmly embedded in my skull it has probably been passed on to my grandson in my DNA.
Denis
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Ok,,, I get Q.E.D. but what the hell is DNA :?
Rouse
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DeoxyRibonucleic Acid. :cheers: Wayno
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Believe it or not I aspired to be a pharmacist entering High School and my curriculum was set up by my counselor to assure my classes included Chemistry, Advanced Mathematics and (ulp), the dreaded Latin which in those days was a very important part of Pharmacy.
Let me tell you that trying to learn to speak or read a "dead" language is about as exciting as watching cow patties dry. Uno est pecuneie is all I fu#king remember and in fact the D grade I received convinced me that I should find a different "future" occupation.
I did however excel at doodling flames and Hot Rods on my legal pads, and during the late sixties and early seventies I actually became a "Druggist" of sorts................
Ol' One Run, out............................................ :roll:
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Sorry for the quick hijack, but Bob's comment reminded me of a place where I once applied for a job.
The interview went along fine and sooner or later came up the question of a drug test. It was worded like this:
"Okay, it's time for the XX Marquette store's drug test. Got any drugs? Let us test 'em!!" :-D
Really -- they did include that line in the interview. The managers from the big main store in Madison didn't do the hiring, obviously. . .
Over and out.
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I think the Langlo's run those (tires) at Bville, and most likely had them on at the Mojave Mile. John? Troy?
Yeah Bob...we ran the 2291 at the Mojave Mile and they hooked up great. They spun a bit at the top of 1st gear on our ist run
but power was going away after that due to a bad 02 sensor, but still got to an indicated 227 mph on data logger, after speed limits were lifted.
JL222
John, what kind of power do you estimate you were running at Mojave to go 229 MPH?
From my recollection, you guys run a supercharger that would be down on power at elevation as compared to sea level. What is the elevation difference between Bonneville and Mojave?
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The Great White Dyno is 4219 ft above sea level and Mojave is 2762 ft above sea level
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I think the Langlo's run those (tires) at Bville, and most likely had them on at the Mojave Mile. John? Troy?
Yeah Bob...we ran the 2291 at the Mojave Mile and they hooked up great. They spun a bit at the top of 1st gear on our ist run
but power was going away after that due to a bad 02 sensor, but still got to an indicated 227 mph on data logger, after speed limits were lifted.
JL222
Power was down on that last run due to a bad 0/2 sensor but my bville pro computer program shows 1350 +- hp.
Also Troy didn't power all the way thru as their was still some speed limits.
JL222
John, what kind of power do you estimate you were running at Mojave to go 229 MPH?
From my recollection, you guys run a supercharger that would be down on power at elevation as compared to sea level. What is the elevation difference between Bonneville and Mojave?
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There have been several people who have run that kind of speed at Maxton, Wilmington and Loring you should check with them and see what they were running for tires
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Rim width is going to be really important to keep the tire on the bead as it grows in height.
Sid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq_vONUJiJs&feature=iv&src_vid=a12vOgambSI&annotation_id=annotation_786830
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Sic frangit crispidium
G
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G, You are a smart cookie :cheers:
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G, You are a smart cookie :cheers:
pseudo Latin
None of which is helping find Biglady112 tyres.
Yes I spelled it "tyres"
because that's how you spell tyres in English
G
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[quote author]
pseudo Latin
None of which is helping find Biglady112 tyres.
Yes I spelled it "tyres"
because that's how you spell tyres in English
G
[/quote]
We had Daniel Webster on this side of the pond.
Rouse
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He didn't go to Oxford or Macquarie
G
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DNA isn't that the National Dyslexia Association .
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FWIW, the R7 has proved to be a rock-steady performer in standing mile events, and we have a number of participants who have logged many, many passes over 200 mph on them without a mishap.
Mike
Hello,
I did not want to start a new thread, but I've read a TON of the tire threads and this seemed closest.
Yes, I have a rulebook, but specifically can a person show up to Bonneville with an R7? Current record in the likely class is 207.
On page 26, rule 2F states that "in excess of 200mph, special tires for racing as designated by the manufacturer".
It SEEMS like an R7 (in good shape, of course) would be allowed with no issue.
Car is a pony-type car, rwd, and should hopefully run in the 190s and might maybe possibly crack 200.
Thoughts?
Thank you,
Costas
cars and such...