Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Mike Brown on April 07, 2015, 02:57:52 PM
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Hello All,
I have started a belly tank lakester. I plan to run the car at the ECTA track in Wilmington Ohio which is close by. The project started with a P-38 body from Class Glass Performance. I fabricated a perimeter frame from 2"x3"x1/4" steel tubing (photo attached). The drive train consists of a LSA crate engine, "shorty" four speed transmission from Jerico and a Winters Xtremeliner quick change rear end.
Mike Brown
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Mike welcome to the forum. Please add the city/state you live in so a local may be able to help you. You are on the riiight track with the build. Keep a photo diary during the build so we can give you any help. :cheers:
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Mike, looks like you've got a good start there. You'll be glad you got the chassis out close to the body. Tanks have a habit of running out of room very quickly. Wayno
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Mike,
Looking forward to watching your build. My question is: Are you going to more or less copy ever other P38 tank build (the "classic" build) with lots of axles and radius rods, steering rods, shock adsorbers, spindles, headers etc all hanging out in the wind or are you planning to try to integrate these into some sort of aerodynamic apendage that will provide the mimimum amount of aero drag? If you go with the "classic" build you are then almost completely dependent on having the "best" engine to be able to go fast. If you go with the "aero" approach then you have a leg up on the majority of the other cars. Aero is pretty much a free speed "enhancer" and the reduction of frontal area x coefficient of drag is equal to a proportional amount of horse power increase, i.e. 25% less drag is equal to 25% more horse power.
One other thing about the P38 tank, I know that the center line flange is sure a nice way to make the body removable but it is pretty ugly when it comes to being "aero". Again, looking forward to your build.
Rex
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One other thing about the P38 tank, I know that the center line flange is sure a nice way to make the body removable but it is pretty ugly when it comes to being "aero".
Wayno, are you going to take that lying down?
Oh, yeah, it's the only way you can fit in your tank . . . :wink:
Mike, best of luck with your build.
And Elmo Rodge is correct - packaging is always the headache on tanks.
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Mike welcome to the forum. Please add the city/state you live in so a local may be able to help you. You are on the riiight track with the build. Keep a photo diary during the build so we can give you any help. :cheers:
Too late Glen! I already know he is 15 minutes from my house! :-D :-D He can't escape! :-D
I told Mike you can never take too many pictures or ask too many questions for this bunch! Mike has built some other neat stuff so this should be a clean little machine! :cheers:
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I never said packaging was a headache. It is merely an interesting design exersize. :wink: Wayno
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Woody, you know we can't wait to pick on him, Elmo will keep him honest. :evil:
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And yet - Mike didn't take the hint so I filled it (location) in for him. You're welcome. :roll:
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Nice start.
Keep posting pics and don't get ruffled over unsolicited suggestions. They’re offered up to help and not intended to offend. :-D
Skip Pipes
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Mike, I'm subscribed. Wish you all the best.
Living 15 minutes from Woody is a great start. :-D :cheers:
Regards, Mike.
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I was unable to find anyone to bend the rectangular tubing. I built the perimeter frame in sections mitering each joint on a milling machine with a home made sine table for accuracy. Each end was then chamfered at 45 degrees 1/8" deep for welding.
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Rex,
I am going for an aerodynamic build. I chose the supercharged (565hp) LSA engine mainly for its compact size. It fits inside the body without any changes. I think that it will be easier to build an aerodynamic build by mounting the front axle rigid eliminating all the suspension parts.
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I attached a photo of the "shorty" transmission that Jerico built for me. A tail shaft was just going to make the car longer and the drive shaft shorter.
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This is gear ratio chart showing the speed in each gear at the factory redline of the engine using 28" tall land speed tires and current gear ratios assuming no wheel slip.
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Super work.
Really like the frame material. Keep a picture of the cut frame section in a binder with your logbook. That way if you’re asked about material thickness where the cage is welded, you have a picture for reference.
SP
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Smooth LSR tires won't work on blacktop or concrete, they don't have enough rubber on them & won't take the heat.
Sid.
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Mike, are you going "inside" or will your head be sticking out? Wayno
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The cockpit is designed for a sit up position. My head will be just high enough out of the body for safe forward vision. I am running the dual mass dual disk LSA clutch. (photo attached) The clutch release is from Tilton. I have used these with great success.
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I have certifications for all of the material that I am purchasing for the build. I have attached a photo of the beginning of the roll cage (excuse the poor quality of the photo). The cage components were purchased from SW Race Cars. Woody stopped by this evening to offer his advice. Woody is a wealth of knowledge.
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Attached is a photo of the frame in process. I find it much easier to TIG weld when the frame can be positioned so I don't have to stand on my head. I use a small overhead hoist on a monorail in my shop. The monorail has pivot on the wall side so I can swing it from side to side.
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I like the frame. It appears to use the [limited] space to best advantage.
A sprung front axle needn't be terrible aerodynamically. My lakester has cross-over linkage and coil-over shocks inside the body, leaving just the radius rods out "in the air". [The worst aero part of my front end are the good-sized disc brakes; I'm considering ditching them, then I could run inboard wheel discs.]
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I will not be running front brakes. I machined the brake rotor portion off of the hubs to have less hanging out in the air stream.
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Great job Mike. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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I ordered rims yesterday. I plan to run Moon discs and wanted to weld tabs for Dzus fasteners to the rims as well as fully welding the centers. These rims come standard with a powder coat finish. I prefer to not weld powder coated steel. Most powder coating shops can burn the powder coating off for a fee. I contacted Cragar and they were able to supply their "69" series rims with a bare finish. They also make this rim in a 4-1/2" width for Goodyear Land Speed Tires. The rims cost less than $60/ea from Jegs.
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Its just me but I reckon salt and powder coating don't mix.
Use alkyd resin, it's repairable, adheres better and doesn't hide corrosion creep.
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Rustoleum rattle can primer--- my frame paint of choice---- but then I have been accused of building UGLY CARS :-D
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I totally believe in rust paint as opposed to powdercoat. I use powdercoating in a lot of the projects I build where they'll never be reworked but race cars don't fall in that category. As a weldor I find two part paints and powdercoating to be much more difficult to repair and then the recoating is much more difficult and expensive and the repair/modification shows up more.
Pete
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I also like the Rust-O-Leum product line. Their rusty metal primer has great adhesion. I have also been accused of building "ugly" cars. My daughter told me no more flat black projects so I have switched to semi-gloss!
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The roll cage is coming along. I am pleased with the LSA engine package. With supercharger and intercooler the entire package will fit in the body without the need for any alteration.
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Looking good Mike! Looking forward to watching the old girl come together. :cheers:
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The roll cage is coming along. I am pleased with the LSA engine package. With supercharger and intercooler the entire package will fit in the body without the need for any alteration.
Have you tried climbing in and out with full fire suit and helmet on? The cage is sorta narrow and the front circular hoop is going to make getting legs in kinda tough. You're not a midget are you? sorry. :evil: :cheers: when I first built my liner mocked it all up with plastic pipe and seemed lots of room. Didn't have helmet on.. Ut Oh! Ended having to raise the cage. I think you are ok height wise but that front hoop concerns me.
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The LSA dual mass dual disk clutch is 1-1/4" taller than standard clutches. I machined a 1-1/4" spacer from aluminum. It was a lot of material to remove for the transmission clutch release support so I started with a 4" hole saw. It went easier than I expected on the lathe. The hole was finished up with a boring bar. I then had to machine a spacer for the pilot bearing. The pilot bearing spacer is sandwiched between the cobore in the crankshaft and a cobore in the flywheel. There are three different flywheel bolt patterns on LS engines, 6, 8, and 9 bolt. I will be fabricating a guard for the flywheel from 1/4" steel.
I have successfully entered and exited the roll cage with a helmet on but not a fire suit. I am 5'-9" tall (does not qualify for midget height) and it is close but not tight.
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Mike, try to get in and out FULLY suited. :wink: It's amazing how fast things change when you get everything on. :cheers: Wayno
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I second that ---more than one cage had to be cut :-o and remade at the last moment!
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Hopefully you had the inner skin, steering and controls mocked up in the drivers compartment when you did that. Stepping in without any obstructions is easy... you might want to cut the hoop and run a brace to the frame, then add the hoop farther forward.
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This is gear ratio chart showing the speed in each gear at the factory redline of the engine using 28" tall land speed tires and current gear ratios assuming no wheel slip.
585hp? It's gonna go faster than 220 :-D
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Having built the cage in my Lakester and needing to bail out fast after doing crop circles at Wilmington I know the design of your cage is not going to work. As others have mentioned the hoop over your legs needs to be moved forward so you can get out in a hurry if need be. Also the seat location looks high in my cage I layed the seat back a lot more this gave me a much lower cage along with less mass in the air.
My tank is not as wide as yours the widest point is only 31 inches but even with the SFI 20 fire suit which is whats required for a blown car theres still enough room for me the driver. Its not like being in a Caddy but for the short time were in suited up and under way its good.
Now towing to the line and returning to the pits thats another story its tight so we try to put a little guy in there for those long rides. Many years ago we strated a build diary on the lakester early pictures show the first cage design which was to high. Latter I removed the cage and built another thats three inches lower I was able to do this by laying the seat down more.
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EVERYTHING has to be in there---SS1 & RR are spot on!!!!!!!!!! You just can't believe how a control or two---or the strg. gear change stuff--belts too---what made me have to redo mine I had to change the brake pedal mounting
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With regard to the cage and that hoop. You can use a net and or straps as well as the mandatory arm restraints in that area but this is what I see as the main issue. Lowering the top of the cage will give you much better aero,better aero means better conversion of fossil fuel to fastness and that's what we're here for.
When you lower the top of the cage you'll find the best way to get into it the car is to squat with your knees up and slide back as you straighten them. That's not possible with that bar there.
I'm not claustrophobic but wearing a -20 suit on a 100+ degree day in the cab of a tank will give you a fair idea of what it must be like, if you can indeed get in there at all.
I'm not sitting on the fence making idle comment here, I've been there, I've had to bite the bullet and make changes, I want to see you run this thing fast, soon.
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DR. G is spot on ---- are we racing ---- or what
I am completely inside a 30" tank and I am 6'3" and 240 with a SFI 20
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I found this one picture of the rear suspension in "Speed Queen" lakester- front is pretty much the same. I misspoke earlier- it's not coil-overs, it's longitudinal torsion bars with the crossover shocks inside the body, connected to the short ends of the torsion bar 'L' arms. So the only suspension pieces outside the body are the long ends of the torsion arms (and of course the radius arms and the ends of the track bars).
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I am designing the suspension. After some dialog with Joe Timney I have decided that a full suspension system front and rear is in order. The suspension will be a link design most likely Satchell or triangulated four link. I like direct threaded links using 3/4" rod ends. The standard material for direct thread links is 1"OD .156" wall DOM. I think that this is strong enough for the front suspension since there are no brakes on the front axle. For the rear links I wanted something stronger but did not want to weld ends into larger tubing. At my local tubing supplier I found 1-1/4" OD .375" wall DOM. This will allow me to bore each end and single point threads on a CNC lathe so they will be perfectly straight.
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The suspension links turned out nice. One piece design with no welding, straight threads.
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Winters specifies a 11.532" bolt circle with 11 bolts that attach the side bells to the center section. My Extremliner quick change pattern was closer to a 10.932" bolt circle with 11 bolts. I machined two brackets from 1/4" steel that will be used to attach the upper suspension links the rear end housing. I am planning on a triangulated four link (Satchell) type suspension.
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I finished up the bracket for the top suspension links on the rear end. Not wanting to purchase a left hand thread boring bar I purchased a 3/4-16 left hand tap from Jegs. It was the Allstar Performance brand. I had to return it. Even using the tailstock of the lathe to help push the tap and hold it straight it would not cut at all. I purchased a tap from McMaster Carr and it worked perfectly.
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McMaster and Carr!! If they don't have it you don't need it and if they do it is quality (none of that Chinese $hit!) and I get 2 day delivery from their warehouse in LA.
Love em!!
Rex
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A photo of the rear suspension. This Hotchiss style link suspension does not need a panhard rod due to the triangulation of the links. In my limited testing there is no binding with an inch of movement up and down. I think I will use this suspension design for the front also.
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Mike
With satchell linkage the roll center is at the level of the angled links . When they're all angled like yours it has 2 roll centers so the rear suspension is ridged in the roll axis . Making either the upper or lower links parallel would fix that .
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... the rear suspension is ridged [sic] in the roll axis...
Assuming you meant 'rigid': I'm not seeing that. It looks to me that if the rears of the two top bars were moved to be together, there would be zero binding under any situation. And with them as close as they are, and with reasonably-limited suspension movement, there appears to be effectively no binding.
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Jack
With satchell linkage with the uppers angled the lowers must parallelogram for one wheel to lift . If all are angled none can parallelogram . The suspension can still go up and down but one wheel can't lift independent of the frame . The biggest problem is the stress it puts on the linkage and the twisting force where the axle tubes where they go into the side bells of the QC .
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red neck solution solid :-o
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Mike it was great talking with you at Wilmington. I enjoy seeing your design work and the way you machined the parts. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished car at Wilmington in the future.
Ronnieroadster
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I have decided to use rubber as the suspension element. The folks at Timbren have been very helpful. Note the difference in compression and rebound on the deflection chart. The rubber has a definite integral damping affect.
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I had some initial difficulties ordering a steering rack from Unisteer. The original applications engineer thought the application was "dangerous" and was not all cooperative. I finally contacted Brandon Kirby 800-338-9080 ext. 249 at Unisteer and was able to make it happen. They still build a 1.2" per revolution steering rack which is the slowest that I could find. They have a order form on their website for custom racks. Fill in the dimensions and send it in. They can quickly tell you if they are able to build it or if changes are required. My rack will come complete with 5/8" rod ends for the 1/2" steel steering arms that I am using on the steering knuckles. I am looking forward to getting the rack on July 20th.
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The chassis is now a roller.
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I have decided to use rubber as the suspension element. The folks at Timbren have been very helpful. Note the difference in compression and rebound on the deflection chart. The rubber has a definite integral damping affect.
Mike;
That's called "hysteresis"-- the rubber does absorb energy-- that's why it gets hot.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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I installed rubber springs made by Timbren in Canada. They are very compact and have worked out well. Timbren makes the rubber springs in a variety of shapes sizes and durometer. The upper brackets were machined from 1" thick steel plate. The upper mounts are threaded 3/4-16 with alloy threaded rod made into adjuster screws. There is also a an aluminum adjuster that pilots inside the 1-1/4" hole in the rubber spring. The lower mounts are 1/4" steel disks welded to 1-5/8" OD tubes coped to match each axle. There is a 1/2-13 stud welded to each lower mount which allows the spring to be secured without squeezing it. There is a spacer and steel washer inside each spring.
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Looks good. Do the springs have sufficient damping that separate shock absorbers are not needed?
Oops! I now see the rear shocks.
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Jack,
Per the rule book shock absorbers are required however just jumping on the frame it is amazing how much dampening there is in the rubber springs. The compression rate is highly progressive and with the dampening in the rubber springs I don't think that I will need to run sway bars. I attached a photo of the individual spring components.
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thanks for the close ups
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I received the custom steering rack from Unisteer yesterday. The rack matched the drawing exactly and came complete with dust boots, rod ends and a universal joint for the steering shaft. I machined brackets to mount the rack from 1" thick steel. The brackets will be attached to 2" DOM tube which go all the way to the perimeter frame. The 1.2" of rack travel per revolution of the steering wheel is very slow which what I need. I am very pleased with the rack and pinion from Unisteer.
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The link tabs have been final welded to the axle housing and the brakes are in. I have used Wilwood brakes on multiple projects with good results. I am running two calipers per wheel. One will be operated by a foot pedal and the other with a hand brake.
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Help!
I am preparing to final weld my roll cage and am in the process of adding gussets, actually knee bars from 1" DOM 1/8" wall. I have read the rule book section regarding gussets and am still not clear. Does the 4" dimension refer to each leg or the hypotenuse per the photo attached?
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I am using a Jerico transmission with a Hurst shifter. Since the transmission is behind the cockpit I will be using push pull cables to connect the shifter to the transmission. Is there any need to have a working reverse? It would require an additional cable just for reverse.
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About the gussets, for a definitive answer call the chief inspector Steve Davies 714-671-9454 cartechscta@gmail.com
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I am using a Jerico transmission with a Hurst shifter. Since the transmission is behind the cockpit I will be using push pull cables to connect the shifter to the transmission. Is there any need to have a working reverse? It would require an additional cable just for reverse.
To the contrary they want a reverse lock out, no need for a cable
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Mike, I used a Long vertical gate shifter in our rear-engine modified roadster (the shifter is straight line, i.e., it is locked out of 3-4 until you move forward out of 2d, and then locks you out of 1-2), This let me put the shifter on the left side and avoid long, looping cables. I figured the simplicity of operation would resolve any potential confusion on the driver's part. I was right - 6 current records and three red hats. Plus, 1/4" Morse cables have worked fine.
I used a 4" center line on my gusset tubes; no complaints from tech.
vic
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I am using a Jerico transmission with a Hurst shifter. Since the transmission is behind the cockpit I will be using push pull cables to connect the shifter to the transmission. Is there any need to have a working reverse? It would require an additional cable just for reverse.
On my liner with rear engine used a T-10 trans, Hurst 4 spd shifter mounted on left with solid rods from shifter to trans with appropriate heim ends and maybe a spacer on the trans arms (don't remember). The pattern was reversed the way I had it but that no issue. Worked fine. No reverse of course.
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Mike, I used a Long vertical gate shifter in our rear-engine modified roadster (the shifter is straight line, i.e., it is locked out of 3-4 until you move forward out of 2d, and then locks you out of 1-2)...
How did you engage 1st to begin with? Any pictures of what you did to lift it up into the 1-2 track/gates?
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/car-other-1/2900-101A%20combo-1.jpg)
Thanks and it is the shifter I have for the G-Force 101A 4 speed,
Sumner
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Thanks for the shifter recommendations. I will lock out reverse on the transmission and use two cables for 1-2 & 3-4 gear selection. I am ready to weld the firewall in place. Should the firewall be fully welded or tack welded? If it is tack welded is there an approved sealant to make it liquid tight?
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You might want to put it on tabs and bolt it in. 3M Fire Putty will seal it fine.
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Sum, I haven't found a pic of the shifter install yet. Imagine your shifter with a normal "ball" on top, rather then a handgrip and your squeeze type 1-2 gear selector made to pull straight up via a "T" handle (Long sells it this way). Last thing I do is place the car in first gear (engine is running) by reaching in from outside the car while the driver holds the clutch pedal down. Jump in the push truck and off we go.
I found that it was difficult for the driver to do this one (left) handed by himself . and impossible to reach across with with his right to raise the lockout due to proper arm restraint. It is simply a procedure I put in place and that's how we do it. For drivers, my instruction is clutch out and accelerate, pull, push, pull, chute, shutdown. :-D Your squeeze handle type shifter could be made to work this way (and be a lot shorter, too).
vic
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You could use a Morse cable for the back and forward and a small pneumatic cylinder for the squeeze mechanism with an indicator light to tell you it's in first.
Ron
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....Last thing I do is place the car in first gear (engine is running) by reaching in from outside the car while the driver holds the clutch pedal down. Jump in the push truck and off we go.....
OK, I see that the driver isn't putting the car into first in your case. In the lakester the engine/transmission/shifter will also be far behind the driver so what you do could be an option. I have a couple plans for making it so the driver can select 1st but was interested in how they might compare to what you are doing so thanks for the input.
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/car-other-1/2900-101A%20combo-1.jpg)
In the picture I posted above the transmission has the stock Long Vertical Gate. I'll replace the lever and pull grip with something I'll make since I don't want to butcher the stock one in case I go to sell it down the road. Also the reverse lever shown above will be removed,
Sumner
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You could use a Morse cable for the back and forward and a small pneumatic cylinder for the squeeze mechanism with an indicator light to tell you it's in first.
Ron
Thanks Ron,
Sumner
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I am looking for some help with a starter. I have the GM LSA crate engine. I would like to use a compact gear reduction permanent magnet style starter for exhaust clearance. I have used Power Master starters on various projects with great success in the past. The starter recommended by Power Master is for a standard LS engine part number 9109. The flywheel is 168 tooth. The starter bolts to the block like standard LS series starters but the 9109 LS starter does not fit. The starter mounting bolts on the block are 2-7/8" but in line. The 9109 LS starter bolts are 2-7/8" apart but staggered about 3/8". Has anyone used an aftermarket starter on the LSA engine?
How embarrassing. In an effort to photograph the problem I removed the block mounting plate from the starter. Much to my surprise without the starter attached it mounted right up to the block. I then clocked the solenoid to a position below the starter (about 5 o'clock) missing the three sensors and it did fit. There will be plenty of clearance to my exhaust as I had hoped. So a PowerMaster 9109 properly clocked will fit a GM LSA crate engine.
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I am lining the cockpit with 14ga steel. A roller helps to form the sheet into a matching radius before tack welding in place.
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I started the exhaust using 2-1/2" tubing. I use exhaust donuts in the construction as they allow really tight bends and you can weld them back together at any angle providing that your cut line always goes through the center of the donut.
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The flanges were CNC machined from 7/16" ground steel plate.
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What is an exhaust donut? I see the "donut" but I'm not getting the concept.
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A donut is a circular tube that can be cut into pieces to make bends. :cheers:
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http://secure.chassisshop.com/partdetail/C76-562/
It is a stamped piece that you can cut into sections and weld together. You can get a smaller radius than you can make with a tube bender.:-D
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Wish I could get them here. :roll:
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I started on the water tank for cooling the engine. I am using 1/8" 5052 aluminum. This tank will be located under the engine. The outside is TIG welded with MIG bead inside wherever possible.
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The driveshaft came in today. SW Race Cars built this one for me. 3" mild steel tube with 1350 universal joints both ends. The transmission does not have a tailshaft, just a splined shaft sticking out the back. I shortened a standard transmission yoke from Strange.
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Lookin' good Mike Quality all the way. :cheers: Wayno
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The Donuts were invented By Kiwi Squeak Bell who lives in Bakersfield and are stamped out in New Zealand where He still has property and kin. He makes them in mild steel and Stainless. I have used both and they are the Katz Meow! The inside diameter is equal to the pipe diameter (3" tube = 3" I.S. diameter, etc.). They are stamped in two halves and then seam welded around the outside radius.
Kiwi Konnection Hot Rod Parts
(661) 871-KIWI (5494)
925 Bernard St.
Bakersfield, Ca. 93305
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I knew they come from NZ but I didn't know they were Squeak's invention. That's what I get for becoming a hill billy.
Sid.
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... This tank will be located under the engine...
Nice use of available space.
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Great build quality. :cheers: :cheers:
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I included an expansion tank on the engine coolant tank. I fabricated it with flanges so it could be easily removed. The LSA engine has steam vents coming from the heads that will attach to the expansion tank. Since the tank is "U" shaped I included a steam line from the opposite side of the tank. I did add provisions for a radiator cap. I will use a 6psi cap. I pressure tested the tank with air at 20psi. The flat section under the oil pan bowed out so I added a piece of aluminum bar through the center of the plate to the curved exterior.
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Nice work, Mike.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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I agree and Neil how clean is that shop?. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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It's a lot cleaner than mine, Mike!
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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I have started the parachute system. The chute is a Bonneville style from Stroud. My chute tube is 6" OD 1/8" wall 6061 aluminum. Is the preference to run the chute lanyard through the tube or outside the tube?
Thanks,
Mike
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It is done both ways... more important, mount position, too high above CG will unload front, too low will unload back.... Tether length.... position... chute size... speed it will be popped are all questions that should be answered....
Best idea... talk it over with the chute guy to get the chute and mount point tailored for the car, then decide where you will mount the can.... that will tell you if you need to go through or under for the mount.
:cheers:
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From what I was told when discussing my chute with the manufacturer was that the chute line should pull through the center of gravity of the car. As Stainless said, too high it will lift the nose, too low it will lift the tail.
I pull through the tube and it is mounted very close to axle height. Don't remember tether length off the top of my head but these pics give a general idea of how at least my chute style trails at speed. My chute has deployed well and pulled nice at Bonneville, Loring, and Ohio.
Just from a quick look at the height of your chute tube seems like pulling through the tube would be a little high. But that is just my opinion.
-Andy
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1642/24831009362_072c4aa5bb.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DQepZ5)IMG_2613 (https://flic.kr/p/DQepZ5) by Andrew Welker (https://www.flickr.com/photos/vonwelker/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1466/24318416414_18f5bb7fd9.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/D3WeXC)IMG_2615 (https://flic.kr/p/D3WeXC) by Andrew Welker (https://www.flickr.com/photos/vonwelker/), on Flickr
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I machined a 1/4" compression fitting with 1/4" hose on the opposite end. This makes for a very compact and secure connection of braided stainless (Spectre fractional size hose) to the tubing.
I saw Andy's car at the Ohio Mile. It is an engineering marvel and very well executed. After seeing Andy's photos and making some coarse calculations I estimate that my CG is nearly in line with the perimeter frame. I have ordered a section of 6" schedule 40 steel pipe for a new chute tube. I will cut the back of the frame so the tube can be welded in place making it a structural piece of the perimeter frame.
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Nice work, Mike.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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On my lakester using a tube for the chute deployment I connected the chute to the chassis so its positioned at the cam shaft centerline. Joe Timney Delaware Chassis works guided me on the proper location for attachment. After five seasons of deployment at speeds now over 180 MPH the chute deployment has never upset the car.
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Mike, I found my center of mass and mounted my chute accordingly. So far I am pleased. :cheers: Wayno
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I will borrow some scales and find the center of gravity (mass) so that I can mount the chute tube at the correct height and keep the chute lanyard inside the tube. Thanks for the recommendations. I included a photo of the workshop inside the garage for Neil and Tauruck. The workshop is heated and cooled which extends my working season in Ohio. The small milling machine has both manual and full CNC operation. The lathe is one of my all time favorite machine tools, a Haas tool room lathe. The lathe has full manual and full CNC automatic operation with tabs that can be quickly filled in for various operations such as single point threading. I am thankful to a well equipped shop.
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Nice workspace and great machine tools, Mike! :cheers:
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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And I can testify that it looks even better standing there! :cheers:
And no I'm not showing youse guys my shop! :x
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I think we call him Dr. Brown from now on.
That's a surgery. :wink:
Thanks for that photo Mike. I'll start tidying up my work space tomorrow.
You set a good example.
Regards, Mike. :cheers:
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Nice shop. My Bridgeport is circa 1946 my Southbend lathe is a 9" 1934 , my bench drillpress is a circa 1920 model.
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Very nice shop!!
I was going to be jealous of the mill and lathe, but since I'll be 65 in a few months, I'm just going to concentrate on my woodworking and fly tying after that.
:cheers:
Flyfishingboy
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Very nice shop!!
I was going to be jealous of the mill and lathe, but since I'll be 65 in a few months, I'm just going to concentrate on my woodworking and fly tying after that.
:cheers:
Flyfishingboy
Right!! Mark do you really expect us to believe that!
Rex
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I changed to 6" schedule 40 pipe for my chute tube. The frame was coped for a good fit when welding the tube in place. The chute will now be at a much better height and I gained 51 pounds of ballast.
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Mike, how high is the tube from the ground? I'm assuming you're still planning on mounting the tether in the tube? Wayno
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the lack of rigidity in the chassis after the cage, is that it or is there more to come?
Sid.
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I have the tether attached outside the tube.
I can remove the tube and stand it vertically for packing the chute, then replace in the car.
You can see the attachment point, rear of and below the tube, just above the push roller.
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Ours is tethered to the 1/4-inch 2x5 rear crossmember. We just put a notch in the bottom of the tube to accommodate it. I don't like the idea of what might happen if the car was a little off-straight (yes, I know it's not a roadster) and what damage it might do to the tube and the surrounding body work.
Here's, maybe, a picture.
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Elmo,
The center of the chute tube is 22-1/4" from the ground. There is rake in the chassis with the front being 1" lower than the rear. I am planning to route the tether inside the tube. The tube is .280" thick steel (schedule 40 6" pipe).
Sid,
The perimeter frame is 2"x3"x1/4" wall tube but there is more frame to come in the rear. I will be using a link over the engine between the rear cage hoop and the hoop after the engine. I plan to make the link with right and left hand thread rod ends so that I can tension it after it is installed. The link will need to be removable for engine access. There will also be additional bracing between the hoop after the engine and the rear of the frame. I have fuel tank, supercharger intercooler tank and battery that all has to fit in this area. There are also 1" diameter "knee" braces on each hoop to the rectangular perimeter frame. I will post some additional photos as I am always looking for ways to add additional strength to the chassis.
Thanks for the comments.
Mike Brown
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The front of the LSA is getting busy with coolant lines. I am using an electric water pump. The only thing driven off of the crankshaft is the supercharger. I elected to build an adjustable belt tensioner instead of using an OEM spring tensioner.
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Since there are "shade tree" mechanics it is natural to have shade tree painters. My engine mounts and blower tensioner getting a little Rust-O-Leum before final installation.
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After much research I am making progress on the transmission shifter. I ordered 5/16" Cable Craft push pull cables with male threaded ends. I fabricated a mount to attach the cables to the Hurst competition plus shifter. I machined solid ends for the cables. The ends are attached to the shifter levers with stainless steel bushings. I felt no need to use rod ends as the alignment on this end of the system is very accurate and there is no binding. The cables exit through a bushing in the firewall that can be sealed. The cables go up and over to the top of the transmission. I have machined custom levers for the transmission that face to the rear of the car to maintain a standard shift pattern. Note that the 5/16" cables are large and have 11/16" threaded ends for the outer housing. The bend radius is 8" but the cables are very stiff. My bend radius is a compound radius but thankfully much larger than the minimum.
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I completed the transmission end of the shifter. The 5/16" cables are stiff but workable since the bend radius is large. The mount was made from 1/4" steel. I used 5/16" rod ends to attach the shifter cables to the shifter arms. The shifter arms were made in two pieces. One piece was turned on the lathe with a "keyway" machined on the mill in the back to drive the double flats on the Jerico transmission. The arms were then machined with a matching cope so they could be rotated to any position while the adapters were on the transmission. This allowed me to insure that the arms were perpendicular to the cable while in neutral. The shifter was locked in neutral with a 1/4" pin to insure proper alignment. I scribed witness marks on the transmission shifter lever assemblies so the could be fixture for welding off the transmission. The shifter works great. The force is low with very minimal lost motion which makes finding neutral very easy.
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Finishing up the shifter allows me work on the next layer of the car which is the fuel system. I was ready to start machining some fittings when a search found "AN O-Ring Unions". These great fittings by Fragola allow you to connect an AN O-Ring port directly to another AN O-Ring port. To allow the components that you are coupling to be aligned one end is fixed and the other end is adjustable using a nut. This saves an incredible amount of space over port adapters, hose fittings and short pieces of hose or an AN to AN coupler. The beginning of my fuel system is an AN-12 Enderle combination fuel filter and shutoff. The filter/shutoff is connected to the Aeromotive fuel pump and then on to the fuel pressure regulator. This makes for a very small package with less connections to leak. I will use a microswitch to insure that the fuel pump cannot run with the fuel shutoff.
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Those fittings are good to know about- thanks, Mike. :cheers:
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Mike,
Your fuel pump/filter/regulator system is very nice and compact. Is the tank return line the connection on the bottom? I looked on the Aeromotive site and they did not give a schematic of the connections. I assume that the two side connections that appear to be in line (front and back in your picture) are the regulated pressure connections that go to the injection system. Nice parts and I like the double O ring fitting, I have logged it into my memory for when I re-plumb my roadster injection.
Rex
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Mike,
Your fuel pump/filter/regulator system is very nice and compact. Is the tank return line the connection on the bottom? I looked on the Aeromotive site and they did not give a schematic of the connections. I assume that the two side connections that appear to be in line (front and back in your picture) are the regulated pressure connections that go to the injection system. Nice parts and I like the double O ring fitting, I have logged it into my memory for when I re-plumb my roadster injection.
Rex
Rex,
The return line connection is on the bottom of the regulator as shown in the photo. In the car the connection will point up with a short AN-10 line connecting back to the fuel tank. The two connections on the side are actually intended to be returns from each fuel rail on a V8 application. I attached an illustration of the connections from Aeromotive (I searched their site and found the instructions). I spoke with their tech department and it is OK to use one port as fuel in and the other for fuel out to the fuel rail as my crate engine requires. I wanted to have enough capacity that If I need 1,000hp some day I don't have to swap out a bunch of parts.
Mike Brown
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With regards to the fuel system what is the opinion on foam in the fuel tank? My tank came with foam, I had to remove it to install larger bulkhead fittings for the fuel pump inlet and bypass lines. I am concerned about getting air in the fuel from the return line. I could add a "dip tube" so that the return line is below the expected fuel level or just reinstall the foam.
The tank also has an AN-8 vent line with a ball type roll over valve. Where is the preferred spot in the car to route the vent line?
Thanks,
Mike Brown
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After some research I decided to not use foam. Jaz the manufacture of the fuel tank (and foam) specifically state on their website that the foam cannot be used with water for intercoolers or with fuel that contains alcohol. I expect to run E85 in the future so the foam is out. Junior Thompson (of 60's gasser fame) told me not to run foam in a mechanically injected Hemi street project many years ago. So I fabricated a "dip tube" using an aluminum coupler machined with 7/8-14 threads that will screw on to the fuel return bulkhead fitting inside the tank and connect a short section of 1/2" aluminum rigid conduit. The fuel returned from the regulator will enter the tank below the fuel level and I hope reduce or eliminate aeration of the fuel.
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I fabricated a mount for the fuel tank. The tank, shutoff, filter, pump, regulator and lines have been installed. The next goal is a battery box, some wiring and then on to starting the engine.
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The fire bottle mount is mocked up. I have been making angles fabricated from 1/4" steel that bolt to the frame. A section of 1-5/8" tube is welded between the angles spanning the car. The fire bottle mounts are attached to 1/4" x 4" steel plates welded to the tube.
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The battery, fuel system and intercooler system were made into a module that bolts to the frame. The module is easily removed for access to the engine and transmission.
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A side view of the chassis.
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A top view from the back.
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A top view from the front.
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That looks great Mike. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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I cut most of the steel for the car using a portable band saw. It is one of my favorite tools.
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Sometimes there is a need to cut small pieces or parts that are not easily held in a vise. I clamp a piece of aluminum plate in the vise then secure the part to be cut using a small "C" clamp. This works really well.
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The completed fire bottle mount. I added gussets under each plate.
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Mike,
My son and I have a Milwaukee portable ban saw and we used one of Swag Off Road's mounts to make it into a small table metal ban saw. One of the most used tools in the shop!! This is their link to the saw mounts. You might like it!
http://www.swagoffroad.com/SWAG-Portaband-Tables-Accessories_c_35.htm
Like your progress!!!
Rex
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Mike,
My son and I have a Milwaukee portable ban saw and we used one of Swag Off Road's mounts to make it into a small table metal ban saw. One of the most used tools in the shop!! This is their link to the saw mounts. You might like it!
http://www.swagoffroad.com/SWAG-Portaband-Tables-Accessories_c_35.htm
Like your progress!!!
Rex
Mike:
I second that. The Milwaukee band saw and the SWAG Off-Road table mount is one of the best tools I have. Bought it to build some headers, now I use it every day.
BR
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Ditto on portable bandsaw being a most-used tool. I recently needed to make some long cuts (19") of a width (4"?) that wouldn't quite fit in the throat of the saw. I made custom mounts for the roller guides that let the blade run untwisted, instead of the usual 45 degree twist. It worked fine.
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Which is your preferred table mount?
Mike
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The challenge is always packaging. I thought that I could easily put a tach and a small switch panel in the space between the steering wheel and front tube. Well the tach fits, now to find a new location for the switch panel.
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When I built my lakester I installed the yellow shift light however I never actually looked for the light during any of my runs. There's so much time during a run you will find its easy to watch the tach and where your going on the track. A time example for my car which runs just short of 180 in the mile its 30 seconds of seat time from when you leave the line on a run.
When I decided to eliminate the shift light that gave me more room for gauges and switches. My car is very similar to yours its very narrow in the dash/gauge area. My dash has the tach in the center along with three gauges spaced left and right of the tach. Also on the dash I have four switches including a starter push button and one LED indicator. There's a lot of stuff on a small panel creatively shaped to conform around the single tach and still allow plenty of room for the drivers legs to not come in contact with the dash. One area of the build I truly enjoy is the creative use of compact packaging.
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Mike;
Could you mount your shift light vertically behind the panel? This would reflect on the windshield like a head-up display (HUD).
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Hi Mike:
My dash and especially the two fire bottles are located in roughly the same space on the chassis. One of the problems we have is how little space there is for a pull or push cable for fire bottles. What are you going to use for cables?
John
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My fire suppression system is activated with a push knob that attaches directly to the fire bottles.
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My fire suppression system is activated with a push knob that attaches directly to the fire bottles.
Did you have a custom cable length made?
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John,
I attached a photo of the fire suppression system activators. They are push style and mount directly to the fire bottles, no cables are needed. I did have custom Control Craft cables made for my shifter. They are large 5/16" versions and came out perfect.
Mike
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When I built my lakester I installed the yellow shift light however I never actually looked for the light during any of my runs. There's so much time during a run you will find its easy to watch the tach and where your going on the track. A time example for my car which runs just short of 180 in the mile its 30 seconds of seat time from when you leave the line on a run.
When I decided to eliminate the shift light that gave me more room for gauges and switches. My car is very similar to yours its very narrow in the dash/gauge area. My dash has the tach in the center along with three gauges spaced left and right of the tach. Also on the dash I have four switches including a starter push button and one LED indicator. There's a lot of stuff on a small panel creatively shaped to conform around the single tach and still allow plenty of room for the drivers legs to not come in contact with the dash. One area of the build I truly enjoy is the creative use of compact packaging.
Ron,
I have seen your lakester and it is a marvel of compactness. Your tank is much smaller in diameter than mine. I think that the shift light has to go to make room for a few switches. I need a fuel pump, ignition and water pump switches along with a starter button. I have some very bright LEDs that are clear when off. I can find place for a LED shift light. I hope that the phrase "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery" works for you. I am going to paint my tank silver after seeing yours.
Mike
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HI Mike
Part of the silver on my front half tank body is the original aluminum I just use a scotch bright pad to keep it silvery then once I painted painting the lower half black that helped to hide all the years of abuse the old tank went threw plus out on the salt it will be visible much better.
Mike another thing to think about the way you would trigger your fire bottles. Being located under and behind the dash area might be a problem for two reasons. One if you happen to hit a bottle knob with your leg or knee getting in or out of the car that will quickly ruin your day. Second once your all belted in fire suit and helmet plus Hans device all on the amount of extension you will have on your arms and head movement may not allow you visibility and access to those bottle knobs.
In my car I decided to place control for the fire bottles on the right side of the frame the same general location as the chute release this location protects against a mistaken fire bottle actuation and its not a stretch of my body to get to these important controls. trigger of the bottles plus its in a location easy to get at without having to look down below the dash area.
Were planing on being in Wilmington next month if your in the area stop by your more than welcome to sit in the car to see what I mean about the control access. We could even strap you in helmet and Hans on to see what little movement there is.
Ron
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I decided to machine a block to hold the fire suppression nozzles angled away from the fire wall and angled apart to get better coverage. When I need to do multiple operations on the mill and repeat angles I layout the angle on a piece of scrap material, drill holes and add roll pins. This holds the part consistently at the same angle each time that you put it in the vise.
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This is a photo of the machined part setting against the roll pins to hold the angle.
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This is a photo of the part with the fixture in the vise. A stop is required to hold the fixture in the same location as the part is removed and replaced.
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This is the part with mounting holes, tubing connector and nozzles.
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A photo of fire suppression nozzles covering the firewall from behind the drivers seat.
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What fire suppressant are you using? How many cubic feet of space does it cover when you are in there? My concern is the nozzles look like they would release a lot of suppressant in a very short time, you actually want your suppressant to be flowing till you can get stopped and get out.
YMMV :cheers:
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What fire suppressant are you using? How many cubic feet of space does it cover when you are in there? My concern is the nozzles look like they would release a lot of suppressant in a very short time, you actually want your suppressant to be flowing till you can get stopped and get out.
YMMV :cheers:
I am using the aqueous system from Fire Fox. The cockpit suppression system is 6-1/2 pounds. Each nozzle has a #46 (.081") restrictor. The cockpit is open. The body is a not regular cone, there is a front bulkhead that the pedals come through to form the foot box however it is not sealed so I calculated the gross volume without me inside. My best estimate is less than 15 cubic feet.
I have an additional 6-1/2 pound system with 3 nozzles for the engine compartment.
Mike Brown
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I purchased the LSA controller kit with the crate engine. The controller included a wiring harness and fuse box. To expedite the wiring process by eliminating adding additional fuses and relays I modified the fuse box. There were already relays and 30A mega fuses in place for the fuel pump and fan. I brought new leads out for the fuel pump and fan relays which I will use for my fuel pump and cooling pump. These will be controlled with toggle switches in the cockpit. The wiring harness also needed to be shortened for this application. I solder each wire connection and cover with "moisture resistant heat shrink tubing" I get the heat shrink from McMaster Carr. It is some amazing stuff, it has a substance like hot melt glue inside so when you shrink it with a heat gun the glue sticks the tubing to the wiring. You can see the glue oozing out from the end of the tubing in the photo. It makes for some very secure connections.
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Shrink tubing with a meltable inner wall is good stuff. Nice, Mike.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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I finished plumbing the intake into the LSA engine. The intake tubing is 4" and passes through the cockpit behind my left shoulder. The crate engine uses a MAF sensor. The sensor installation is very specific, it needs to be in a straight section of at least 6" long and have at least 10" to the throttle body. I had just enough room to make it fit. Jerry Hoffman at DIYAutoTune could find some more horsepower in this combination using only a MAP sensor and a speed density controller when the time comes.
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The cockpit is tight including the foot box. I have successfully used Wilwood parts in multiple builds. The master cylinders are located behind the steering rack so the pedals needed to be extended. I started out by cutting up the Wilwood pedal. I intended to weld a spacer in place but decided against it since is was cast aluminum. It is good cast aluminum but I did not want to compromise the brake and clutch systems. This photo is where I started.
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I mocked up a pedal and then started fabricating it from 3/4" aluminum plate. It would work but I wasn't pleased where it was heading. This is a photo of the "rough" cut pedal from plate.
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I ordered a second pedal assembly from Wilwood and was pleasantly surprised when I received it. The new pedal is a two piece design. The pad that contacts your boot is beautiful stainless steel. There are raised edges around the holes which grip your boots and eight mounting holes that allow the pad to be mounted center, left or right. A fantastic design. I machined four rectangles from 1/4" plate steel. Two had clearance holes to attach to the pedals and two were drilled and tapped 10-24 to allow the pads to be bolted in place. I used 3/4" diameter steel rod to make the spacers that I needed to get the pedals out past the steering rack. This turned out great.
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That looks great Mike. It is a beautiful design.
All the best. Top notch build. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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A photo of the lettering. Dan Shaw in Milford Ohio has done hand lettering on all of my projects. The name of the car is "itisforfreedom.com". This is a great group of people who started a Christian school in the Dominican Republic. The school is for the children whose parents harvest sugar cane on a 240,000 acre plantation. I have made a few trips to help with their infrastructure. The grid power is only on for a few hours per day with sometimes disastrous results when it comes back on. They are now off the grid and use solar power as much as possible. Check out their website, it is amazing what they have done down there mostly with manual labor.
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A photo of the pedals installed in the car. The next step is build a foot box. The car weighed in total at 2,426 pounds with 1,045 pounds on the front and 1,381 pounds on the rear. I plan to build the foot box from 11ga steel in an effort to get more weight up front. I would like to start with a 50:50 weight distribution. The throttle pedal is the factory drive by wire system that came with the engine controller.
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I used an electrical panel from Joes Racing. The panel was reasonably priced, had good switches and lights to indicate when the switches were on. I chose to have very basic controls. Ignition, fuel pump, water pump and a starter button. The starter button is robust however to eliminate the need for heavy gauge wire into the cockpit I added a starter relay which kept all of the cockpit wiring at 18 gauge. The chute lever and inertial switch for the fuel pump are visible in the photo.
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A photo of the pedals installed in the car. The next step is build a foot box. The car weighed in total at 2,426 pounds with 1,045 pounds on the front and 1,381 pounds on the rear. I plan to build the foot box from 11ga steel in an effort to get more weight up front. I would like to start with a 50:50 weight distribution. The throttle pedal is the factory drive by wire system that came with the engine controller.
For a better handling car the weight distribution should be determined based on the center of pressure location from the rear axle center line. Once the C/P location is know the center of gravity location must be in front of the C/P by up to six inches. The amount of weight needed on the front axle might be less than your 50/50 idea.
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I estimated the pressure center using a calculator found on the Landracing forum (http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/software.htm). This calculator estimates my pressure center to be about 4" behind the center of the wheel base. To move the CG to 6" in front of the pressure center will place the CG 2" in front of the wheel base center. This will require slightly more weight on the front than the back. This will be more than the 336 additional pounds to the front end that I estimated for a 50/50 weight distribution.
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Hang a model from a thread and blow air at it . You may be surprised how far forward the CP is .
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Mr. Brown,
The aerotools calculator appears to operate on an area-weighted basis and for an aircraft uses the planform layout. Was your result also based on planform or, more appropriately, a lateral profile form? Or, perhaps a modified partially yawed profile that includes both front wheels?
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Mr. Brown,
The aerotools calculator appears to operate on an area-weighted basis and for an aircraft uses the planform layout. Was your result also based on planform or, more appropriately, a lateral profile form? Or, perhaps a modified partially yawed profile that includes both front wheels?
For the first attempt (and not knowing much about the software) I took a photo of the car from the side perpendicular to it. I used Photoshop to "cut" the car out, imported the image and pressed the button to analyze. If there is a better methodology I am open to it.
Thanks for your interest in my project.
Mike Brown
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Mike,
Are you including your weight when you do your CG calculations? Just a thought as if you put my fat a$$ in the drivers seat I would bet you would not need to add front weight! Good reason I'm not a driver!
Rex
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Mike,
Are you including your weight when you do your CG calculations? Just a thought as if you put my fat a$$ in the drivers seat I would bet you would not need to add front weight! Good reason I'm not a driver!
Rex
A good question. Yes I did get the weight while in the car. I was able to borrow four wireless electronic scales from the local Porsche club to weigh the car. This allowed me to get simultaneous weight from each corner of the car while sitting in it. The scales are amazing. I contemplated gaining 300 pounds for ballast but decided against it when I realized that I didn't want to buy another fire suit. So the ballast will be metal either steel or lead or both.
Mike Brown
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Tungsten! The favored weight of racing teams with more than decent budgets! At 1204.41 #/cu.ft., you could layer your helmet with Tungsten (0.069699635 #/cu.in.) and still fit in your drivers suit. If you need front weight, consider Tungsten sole plates on your driving shoes. The possibilities only end with your budget! :mrgreen:
vic
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Vic,
You old grouchy old "fart" you got to many zeros, it should be .695 lb/cu.in. so it is about 7 times heavier than aluminum and 4 times heavier that steel and about 1.7 times as heavy as lead, but the price is around $75/lb in round bar form and a pound of tungsten is only about 1.4 cu. in. so you dont' get much for your money.
Rex
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The factory drive by wire gas pedal did not well in the foot box. The plastic factory pedal attached to the throttle sensor with a knurled pin. I replaced the factory pedal with a new one that I fabricated. The round disk is an exhaust valve from a 1955 Chrysler Hemi.
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I fabricated suspension link retainers from 1/4" stainless steel. They are secured inside the panel with a clamp collar and cotter pin.
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When you first don't succeed read the directions. I soaked the exhaust wrap in water overnight (in a zip lock bag) per the instructions and was able to successfully apply the exhaust wrap to the tail pipes of the car.
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Tungsten! The favored weight of racing teams with more than decent budgets! At 1204.41 #/cu.ft., you could layer your helmet with Tungsten (0.069699635 #/cu.in.) and still fit in your drivers suit. If you need front weight, consider Tungsten sole plates on your driving shoes. The possibilities only end with your budget! :mrgreen:
vic
Well the tungsten possibility ended quickly with my budget. I added (3) 50 pound rectangular blocks of steel and will be rechecking the CG this weekend. I would really like to make an initial pass at National Trail dragstrip in Hebron Ohio before going to the Ohio Mile in Wilmington Ohio for the last race of the season.
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I like to use safety wire on critical fasteners used in assemblies like suspension. I am adverse to drilling 1/16" holes 1-1/8" deep through the heads of grade 8 bolts. I prefer to drill through the corner of the hex. This same methodology can be used for nuts. I purchased a drill jig for this purpose but was not satisfied with the results. I broke too many drill bits ruining expensive bolts. I came up with a successful methodology using my milling machine. I find the edge of the hex point and move into the bolt 1/8". I mill a flat using a solid carbide two flute Kennametal end mill which makes a flat. I then step back another .020" and drill a 1/16" hole using a Guhring parabolic flute drill bit. I have drilled over two dozen holes without breaking a bit. I keep the speed down to 1,500 rpm and use synthetic gear oil to lubricate both the end mill and drill bit.
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A photo of drilling the 1/16" hole in a nut.
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A photo of drilling the 1/16" hole in a bolt. The flat was milled before this photo.
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Mike, that's some awesome advice. I was scratching my head about doing that very job.
You just saved me a large head ache. Thanks. Regards, Mike. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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I like to use safety wire on critical fasteners used in assemblies like suspension. I am adverse to drilling 1/16" holes 1-1/8" deep through the heads of grade 8 bolts. I prefer to drill through the corner of the hex. This same methodology can be used for nuts. I purchased a drill jig for this purpose but was not satisfied with the results. I broke too many drill bits ruining expensive bolts. I came up with a successful methodology using my milling machine. I find the edge of the hex point and move into the bolt 1/8". I mill a flat using a solid carbide two flute Kennametal end mill which makes a flat. I then step back another .020" and drill a 1/16" hole using a Guhring parabolic flute drill bit. I have drilled over two dozen holes without breaking a bit. I keep the speed down to 1,500 rpm and use synthetic gear oil to lubricate both the end mill and drill bit.
The aluminum jigs sold for this purpose are JUNK, do not waste your money on them. I have and use a WWII era surplus jig, made of tool steel, for this purpose.
The aluminum jigs allow the drill to "wander", enlarging the jig hole in the fixture. Drill breakage starts immediately thereafter. Also, "low twist" (helix) cobalt drills with 135 degree point angle work best for me. I could probably make a 118 degree, regular twist drill bit work in a pinch, but DO NOT use high helix drills, as they are very "flexible". High drill bit rpm, light feed rate and cutting fluid definitely help drill bit life and reduce drill bit breakage. Instead of the end mill trick to start, a small diameter center drill can be used. Again cobalt, high rpm, low feed and cutting fluid are required.
If you are drilling a LOT of Gr8 or hardened "Allen head" bolts, find or machine a tool steel fixture, and get the cobalt drills. You will save your sanity in the long run.
Just my 2¢
:cheers:
Fordboy
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I like to use safety wire on critical fasteners used in assemblies like suspension. I am adverse to drilling 1/16" holes 1-1/8" deep through the heads of grade 8 bolts. I prefer to drill through the corner of the hex. This same methodology can be used for nuts. I purchased a drill jig for this purpose but was not satisfied with the results. I broke too many drill bits ruining expensive bolts. I came up with a successful methodology using my milling machine. I find the edge of the hex point and move into the bolt 1/8". I mill a flat using a solid carbide two flute Kennametal end mill which makes a flat. I then step back another .020" and drill a 1/16" hole using a Guhring parabolic flute drill bit. I have drilled over two dozen holes without breaking a bit. I keep the speed down to 1,500 rpm and use synthetic gear oil to lubricate both the end mill and drill bit.
The aluminum jigs sold for this purpose are JUNK, do not waste your money on them. I have and use a WWII era surplus jig, made of tool steel, for this purpose.
The aluminum jigs allow the drill to "wander", enlarging the jig hole in the fixture. Drill breakage starts immediately thereafter. Also, "low twist" (helix) cobalt drills with 135 degree point angle work best for me. I could probably make a 118 degree, regular twist drill bit work in a pinch, but DO NOT use high helix drills, as they are very "flexible". High drill bit rpm, light feed rate and cutting fluid definitely help drill bit life and reduce drill bit breakage. Instead of the end mill trick to start, a small diameter center drill can be used. Again cobalt, high rpm, low feed and cutting fluid are required.
If you are drilling a LOT of Gr8 or hardened "Allen head" bolts, find or machine a tool steel fixture, and get the cobalt drills. You will save your sanity in the long run.
Just my 2¢
:cheers:
Fordboy
The fixture that I purchased was hardened tool steel with a jack bolt to keep the corner of the hex pressed tightly against the fixture. The problem that I had was pulling these stringy hard chips all the way up through the fixture without the chips binding the bit. With no fixture and the parabolic flute bits pulling these chips up to just clear the drilled hole is no problem.
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Mike,
I like your lock wire hole drilling method however because for years I did not have a mill I would clamp the bolt in the drill vice with one flat perpendicular to the drill head and then near the edge of the hex I would drill a shallow hole with the 1/16 drill then I would turn the bolt so that the shallow hole was now on the side and very carefully insert the drill, while turning, into the shallow "pilot" hole which is now at approx 60 degrees from vertical, and start drilling slowly. If I took my time and used good drills I was pretty successful. Much easier on a mill. Lots of ways to skin the cat!
Rex
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That's the way I've done it too, Rex.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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That's the method I've always used with great success. Thanks Rex. While I was figuring out how I was going to photograph the operation you made a totally clear picture using only words. Well done! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pecking at the hole in short bursts rather than using steady pressure seems to help by keeping the hole clear and the drill bit cool.
Pete
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The benefit of using a parabolic flute drill bit is that you don't have to "peck" drill the hole to clear the chips. With a standard flute drill bit you should be able to drill holes 3 times the bit diameter without the need to peck or clear chips. Depending upon the parabolic flute bit holes can be drilled 5 or 10 times the diameter because they "pull" the chips out of the drilled hole. When chips pack in the hole there is a lot of sliding going on which greatly increases the heat and the chance of catching which causes bits to break. With some materials like stainless steel the heat will quickly work harden the material. When the chip comes out cleanly the heat of the cutting action comes out with the chip. I was able to drill the 1/16" holes without pecking. I attached a photo of a drill chip that is almost an inch long attesting the to fact that the parabolic flute bits do a great job with these hard stringy materials.
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As I am a real "tool junky" I guess I need to be getting some of the parabolic flute drills and give them a try.
Rex
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Are "parabolic flute" drill bits the same as, or similar to, "high helix"?
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I think I read that this is an ECTA car only but I believe they more or less follow the SCTA rule book. There's one paragraph from one rule that many, many special construction racers miss. Last paragraph of rule 3.D.3 Arm/Leg Restraints: "All Special Construction vehicles shall included an inner liner or system of roll cage members for driver protection in the event of body panel destruction or separation. For a restraint system to be deemed acceptable, no part of the driver shall extend outside the inner plane of the roll cage structure". That means plate on the outside of the cage is not acceptable. Just sayin'.
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Are "parabolic flute" drill bits the same as, or similar to, "high helix"?
A parabolic flute drill bit may be high helix but it actually refers to the flutes of the bit which are shaped to pull the chips up from deep holes. They can be had in high speed steel, cobalt, carbide and with various point angles. I like Guhring brand.
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I think I read that this is an ECTA car only but I believe they more or less follow the SCTA rule book. There's one paragraph from one rule that many, many special construction racers miss. Last paragraph of rule 3.D.3 Arm/Leg Restraints: "All Special Construction vehicles shall included an inner liner or system of roll cage members for driver protection in the event of body panel destruction or separation. For a restraint system to be deemed acceptable, no part of the driver shall extend outside the inner plane of the roll cage structure". That means plate on the outside of the cage is not acceptable. Just sayin'.
Natan you have a great eye for the details the ECTA rule is identical to the SCTA rule the inner panels must be on the inner plane of the roll cage an easy correction to do now.
Ron
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Are "parabolic flute" drill bits the same as, or similar to, "high helix"?
A parabolic flute drill bit may be high helix but it actually refers to the flutes of the bit which are shaped to pull the chips up from deep holes. They can be had in high speed steel, cobalt, carbide and with various point angles. I like Guhring brand.
Thanks. I can see where the "thicker" core of the parabolic flute would also be "stronger" and more resistant to bending in service.
Checking through my woodworking toolbox, I noticed that the specialty, German made drills I bought for deep hole drilling in wood and acrylic are a parabolic flute design, for "deep hole chip removal".
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I fabricated the foot box from 11 gauge steel. I made a few practice pieces from aluminum before the final version in steel. The bends were made on a D&K power leaf brake.
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A view of the interior with the new cockpit lining material inside the tubing. Thanks to Nathan for catching this before I head to the ECTA event this coming weekend. The lining material is 1/8" 5052 aluminum.
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Hi Mike
Are you planing on running the car this coming weekend?
Ron
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I am registered and plan on attending the September ECTA event.
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I was able to make a shake down run at the Ohio Mile. Getting the car through tech was challenging. The SFI 45.1 roll cage padding is some stiff difficult to work with material when the roll cage is tight. I could see no way to add SFI 45.2 padding to the seat for a head rest. The ECTA tech inspectors were helpful. It was determined that the back of my cage was close enough to my helmet to serve as a headrest if it was covered in the SFI 45.1 roll bar padding. So I cut the head rest from the seat and made it work. I saved the rolled edge extrusion from the section that I cut off and will weld it on to the raw edge of the seat.
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I coped holes in the roll bar padding with a hole saw for the 1" cross tubes in the roll cage. I broke one section of tubing bending it to conform to the roll cage tubing. It was tedious work bending the padding to fit so that it could be secured with wire ties.
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I knew that using a total loss electrical system would require a 16 volt battery and a matching charger but I ran out of time and used an AGM 12 volt battery. Don Gilmore and his team were a great help charging the battery with their generator and charger while we waited in line. Never the less with the load of a 30 amp fuel pump, 12 amp water pump, 8 amp engine control unit when the intercooler pump kicked in under boost the voltage dropped to a point that the ECU did not like. I plan to move the electric water pump to the rear of the engine and add a mini alternator.
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Per predictions of a few on the forum it was a challenge passing the "bail out" test. The biggest issue I had was the new cockpit liner made from slick aluminum. I had practiced many times with my gear on but was shocked by how 1-3/4" of additional height which restricted how far I could pull my feet back messed with my muscle memory and the ergonomics of a quick exit. The new roll bar padding also forced me to lean forward with a slightly lower helmet position. I had a great friend that races with the Porsche Club give me some help figuring this all out. We added non slip strips intended for stair treads to the floor of the car and other slight changes to the belt adjustment and hand grip areas until I was able to quickly exit the car. I can only say practice, practice, practice with all your gear on every time you make a change to the cockpit regardless if you think that it will make a difference or not. I have got great advice on this forum.
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The line at the Ohio Mile ready to leave for my first pass ever.
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So Mike me boy---did you get a big ole :-D going down the track????????????? Inquiring minds need to know
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Mike,
I'm glad you got to make a run. Now the fun begins as you make the list of the upgrades you want to do. Congrats.
Andy
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It was a great experience running the car for the first time. I did have smile on my face the entire way. It will be a challenge for the ECTA to find a new venue as this was the last race at Wilmington Ohio. The plans are for some additional testing at a drag strip before heading to the next event where ever that may take us. Many thanks to everyone that helped this weekend including Don Gilmore and his entire crew that showed us how to pack the tube chute and charged the battery with their generator while we waited in line.
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This has been a great thread, I just read the entire thing and its is very informative. I enjoyed the craftsmanship, thats the fun of it really. I am starting the design of a tank myself, is there anything you wish you'd done different?
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OJ,
I wished that I would have insured that the seam on the fiberglass tank was matched better before I spent hours building the perimeter frame inside it. When it came time to put the top front section on it did not fit. I ended up cutting the body section and adding a nasty splice to make it fit. It will take more work to make this look good than it would have taken to insure that the fit was correct the first time. This was my first special construction project also. Check out all the recommendations that you get on this site, there are a lot of racers that have been there done that. Post pictures, it is amazing the things racers can spot in a photo.
I wish the best with your project.
Mike Brown
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I am in the process of adding the alternator. I have used the really small 65 amp alternators on other projects and they worked well. I buy all of my pulleys and belts from B&B Manufacturing in Indiana. They have the best center distance calculator that I have ever used. The calculations are to three decimal places and have always been spot on. The calculator lets you select the pitch and width of the drive. You can enter the desired center distance and it comes back with the closest combination that is longer. You can change pulley sizes by a tooth and recalculate. I do this with different pitch drive systems until I get the center distance that I need. I prefer to build systems that fit without the need for idler pulleys or large slots. As it has been said on this website belly tank construction is all about packaging. They also let you purchase online with a credit card. Great people, great service.
I ended up with L pitch (trapezoid style teeth) drive in 1/2" width. The belt length is 244 with 19 and 32 tooth pulleys. The alternator is driven from the upper supercharger pulley. The supercharger is overdriven 2.6:1 for a maximum rpm of 16,600. I wanted to slow the alternator down some so these pulleys give me a .59375:1 ratio for under 10,000 rpm on the alternator. I purchased pulleys with 1/2" bores since I would be machining them to fit.
Attached is a photo of the pulleys and belt.
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I machined the large pulley to fit on the alternator. I machined the pulley to match the original "V" belt pulley that I removed from the alternator. Attached is a photo of the machined pulley on the alternator.
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I machined holes in a piece of 3/4" thick plastic that would locate the alternator in the space available. I bolted the alternator to this piece of plastic and clamped the opposite end to the blower pulley. This kept the alternator aligned with the blower pulley so that I could mock up a mount. I ended up removing the factory charcoal canister purge valve that came with this crate engine. I machined a 1" thick piece of steel to block the valve location. I then realized that I could use this piece of steel for one end of the alternator mount. I bent up a piece of 1" diameter DOM tube that I had left over from the roll cage. I added a brace from 1/4"x1" thick steel. A lower mount was made from 1/4" thick steel plate. The top view attached shows the upper mount.
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The photo leaves some to be desired but you can just see the 1/4" plate steel of the lower mount just to the right of the engine oil filler. This plate is secured to the end of the head with two bolts in existing tapped holes. A spacer made from 7/8" steel rod connects the bottom mount of the alternator to this steel plate. The mount is very secure with no vibration when the engine is running.
Now to redesign those steering arms that were flexing giving me some shimmy.
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It appears that you're going to extremes (synchronous drive, 10K armature RPM) to have 65 amps (over 780W) available. What will demand that much electrical power?
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It appears that you're going to extremes (synchronous drive, 10K armature RPM) to have 65 amps (over 780W) available. What will demand that much electrical power?
The LSA requires a vacuum/boost referenced fuel system with up to 68 psi of pressure. I am running an Aeromotive Eliminator fuel pump. The pump alone requires almost 15A of current. The engine cooling system water pump draws about 14A. The intercooler pump is another 10A of current. The ECU idles at a couple of amps however the ignition draws over an amp per 1,000 rpm. At low rpms I need about 40A of current which requires that the alternator be spinning very fast. The alternator is rated for a maximum of 18,000 rpm. I use toothed timing belt drives because I like them. They are very compact and don't require any pretension to keep them from slipping.
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I am to cheap to buy new pulleys. In this case I used Honda Gold Wing cam drive pulleys from a junk yard to drive an oil pump on a 28 Chevy. Turned the stock pulley to 1 1/4 and bored the Honda pulley to fit. Brazed them together. Made guide plates to keep the belt on and brazed them on the center and through holes to 5 teeth on the outside. Looked at how close I could mount the pump and compared that to belt sizes and ordered a belt from an industrial hardware store. Before and after pictures of the pulley. I need some aluminum to mount the pump so I can finish this.
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Thanks for the info Mike. I hadn't considered all the pumps being electric.
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Safety is important and even little things can make a difference when you are having a "bad day". I saw the results of a fire in the engine compartment of a land speed car. Thanks to the on board fire suppression system the worst was some burnt wiring. The fire happened when blow by pushed the dipstick up out of the tube spraying oil on the hot exhaust. The oil spray continued feeding the fire until the engine was shut down. I decided that it would be good to secure the dipstick on my car to help prevent this from happening. I added a standoff and bracket to the engine so that the dipstick could be secured with a wire tie.
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Covering the bases will keep you from saying "well shit" how did that happen... keep applying the lessons learned the hard way by others... it doesn't have to happen to you to learn from experience.
:cheers:
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A photo of the upper alternator pulley. I machined the pulley for very close (slight shrink) fit on the press fit hub of the factory upper supercharger drive pulley.
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I machined a drill jig that I could clamp around the pulley to get straight holes to insert roll pins. Red Loctite was also used to secure the pulley to the hub.
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A photo of the completed alternator drive. By virtue of a careful selection of pulleys and belt no idler or slotted brackets were needed. The alternator puts out 26A of current at idle. The car draws 33A of current at idle with all the pumps running except the intercooler. As soon as the engine rpm comes up off idle the alternator current goes above the draw.
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Mike, use a piece of safety wire in place of the tie wrap, a flash of flame will melt it in seconds Just a thought.
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Mike, use a piece of safety wire in place of the tie wrap, a flash of flame will melt it in seconds Just a thought.
Glen,
Thanks for the recommendation. I will change to safety wire or a stainless steel wire tie.
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Mike, I just read this whole thread and enjoyed it immensely. I didn't see how fast you went at Wilmington, but am curious if rear brakes only worked the way you thought they would?
thanks,
Frank
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Mike, I just read this whole thread and enjoyed it immensely. I didn't see how fast you went at Wilmington, but am curious if rear brakes only worked the way you thought they would?
thanks,
Frank
Frank,
The dual caliper disk brakes on the rear felt spongy to me before I went to the track. There are a lot of loops in the brake lines and I have 2 psi residual check valves. I bled the brakes conventionally and with a vacuum bleeder. They still felt a little spongy. I went 125mph at Wilmington for my first licensing pass. I slowed down to 90mph at the traps with concerns about how well the brakes would work. I smoothly let off the gas as Keith recommended and then eased into the brakes. The car slowed down quicker than I could have ever imagined. I actually had to get back on the gas to make the first turn off which I think is 3/8 mile past the traps. So I am no longer concerned about the brakes and am well pleased with their performance.
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I feel that whatever location the new ECTA track is at it will be further away than the 20 miles the Wilmington track was. I decided to buy a trailer to haul the car on. I had used a large enclosed race trailer that a friend graciously hauled the car to the track on as well as a U-Haul trailer and U-Haul dolly. The car is very low and was chore to load. I have towed our inboard ski boat around the country for decades on a single axle trailer and prefer this type trailer. After research I chose an aluminum trailer made by Aluma. The trailer has a gross weight capacity of 5,800 pounds so with a 2,800 pound car and 1,050 pound trailer I have ample capacity. The axle is a torsion unit. The car fits great on this 14-1/2 feet long trailer. The trailer tilts and has a hydraulic snubber cylinder for vehicles that can drive on and off. Not want to stress the clutch in the car I chose to winch it on the trailer. To do this I need to manually control the tilt. I added a manual hydraulic cylinder that tilts the trailer and holds it into position until I release it. I added a worm gear winch rated for vertical lifting. No brake is needed, it locks in position by virtue of its worm gear design. I have used these winches many times before and have been very pleased with them. The latest design I purchased has a 5/8" hex for the handle connection. This allows you to use the supplied handle or a battery drill with a 5/8" socket. I use a 18V Makita battery drill and it pulled the car completely on the trailer without exhausting the battery. More photos to come.
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Nice trailer! I like the winch idea.
Can you post wheelbase and track of the car? I can't find if you already posted it. (thanks)
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Nice trailer! I like the winch idea.
Can you post wheelbase and track of the car? I can't find if you already posted it. (thanks)
Frank,
The wheelbase of the car is 125". The rear tires are 325/50 15 which makes them about 12-3/4" wide. The rear track width is about 57" with the outside of tire to outside of tire about 70". The front tires are 185/75 15 which makes them about 7-1/4" wide. The front track width is about 55-3/4" with the outside of tire to outside of about 63".
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I attached a photo of the winch that I use to load the car.
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I also have an Aluma, but it's only 12' long- I guess the wheelbase of my lakester is less than yours. I bought 6' aluminum ramps with it (which store beside the lakester's front wheels). I mounted a bumper jack to the tongue to allow jacking high enough so the ramps are in line with the trailer floor, to avoid scraping the belly of the race car. Also added "feet" that slide down at each rear corner, so when tilted up the weight is on three stable points, not the tires. I use an electric winch connected to the battery of the break-away brake system- since it's normally plugged into the tow vehicle (to maintain the trailer battery), winch power comes from the tow vehicle's system. Using starter relays, I put together a DPDT switch for the winch, so I can have a light-gauge wire cord with a remote switch- about 25' long to be 'most anywhere while operating the winch.
I like the Aluma trailer. But I realized after first loading the lakester that the trailer (3,000 lb. rated) was not intended for the load (about 2,200 lbs.) to be only at the extreme four corners. I had to make up steel strap trusses (1/4" x 1 1/4" strap?) above each side to keep the trailer from flexing. They are pyramid shaped, about 16" high in the middle, with threaded rod anchoring through 5/8" thick aluminum "plugs" at the ends of the trailer rails. This works well- trailer bed stays flat now. [In the photo, part of the near-side truss is visible (painted black) just behind the stored ramp]
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Your choice of an aluminum trailer is a good idea. A few photos of my steel framed trailer after 6 years at the Salt Flats. I considered posting these in a separate thread but couldn't decide where to put it. I cringe when I think about its last trip to Loring and back, with two bikes inside at 70 mph. I, too, bought an aluminum trailer to replace it.
Tom
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g465/koncretekid/DSC09776.jpg) (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/koncretekid/media/DSC09776.jpg.html)
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g465/koncretekid/DSC09777.jpg) (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/koncretekid/media/DSC09777.jpg.html)
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g465/koncretekid/DSC09778.jpg) (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/koncretekid/media/DSC09778.jpg.html)
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g465/koncretekid/DSC09783.jpg) (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/koncretekid/media/DSC09783.jpg.html)
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Aw, hey -- I'd be just as wary of aluminum as the steel. The aluminum trim bits and pieces on our trailer are all pretty well dissolved. It's out in the barn and snowed in so I can't get pics, but maybe it's time to go carbon fiber for trailer components.
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I would hope the trailer's built from 5xxx series aluminum. That material is what serious aluminum boat hulls are built from and it's resistant to salt water corrosion. Most other aluminum alloys will do exactly what Jon described.
Pete
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All cars and trailers on the Salt are pretty much "sacrificial". You just have to decide when enough is enough. The problem is knowing that point in time.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Doug, I can always point back in time to when I should have known better and retired the trailer. :roll:
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I am showing the car in "Survivor's Alley" at the Cincinnati Cavalcade of Customs this weekend. I hauled the car down on the new trailer. Unloading took about 15 minutes total including removing the straps. The car comes off the trailer without dragging anywhere.
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Doug, I can always point back in time to when I should have known better and retired the trailer. :roll:
I think we all face this fate with trailers. I will be using a modified open steel trailer this go around. When completed, it is off to the sand blaster and two or three coats of either Rust Rocket or POR-15. That should keep the salt termites at bay for a few years.
John
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I exhibited the car at the Cincinnati Cavalcade of Customs. I learned something new about my car from a spectator. A young woman with a group of children pointed at my parachute release cable sticking out from the back of the chute tube and explained to the children that this was a rocket car and that was the fuse that needed to be lit to send the car down the track!
The 99 car in the foreground is the 1951 Indianapolis 500 winner on loan to the Shaw's and their Survivor's Alley from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway museum. It is a great looking car with Offenhauser power.
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Tell us about the Crosley . . .
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I think the Crosley won the 1951 Indianapolis demolition derby.
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Hydrogen Peroxide ? Would that put you in a fuel class?
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All of the mile/mile and a half events now require front brakes. I did not want to bolt on some metric GM calipers and rotors that would be hanging out in the wind, the car already has poor aero and I did not want to make it worse. I decided to fabricate some disc brakes that will fit inside the rims of the front tires. I had already machined the vented rotors off of the hubs I am using. I really like how the Wilwood rotors on the rear are driven by castellated dogs and held in place with a large snap ring. I decided that I could do a similar design for the front keeping it compact. I machined drive slots in my hubs. There were diagonal gussets cast into the hub. I machined the gussets down to the same depth as the slots (for 1/4" thick rotors). They were drilled and tapped 1/4-20 for bolts to secure the rotors to the hubs.
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I machined some 1/4" steel plate for rotors. The tabs fit into the slots machined in the hubs.
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The finished rotors and hubs. I will use graded bolts with safety wire to secure the rotors to the hubs. I have small SC series Wilwood calipers. I will fabricate the caliper mounts next. The plan is to put the front brakes on a hand brake.
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Mike;
Who made your aluminum tilt trailer and how do you like it?
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Mike;
Who made your aluminum tilt trailer and how do you like it?
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Neil,
The trailer is Aluma brand. Their website is alumaklm.com. My trailer has a GVW of 5,800 5,200 pounds and is a single torsion axle. The trailer tows great and is sufficiently strong for my belly tank car. I had very specific goals of a single axle, light weight and tilting. I don't think this trailer is specifically listed for hauling cars but it works great for me. Normally you would drive vehicles on to the tilted trailer and when the CG is forward enough it lowers against a dampener cylinder. Getting unloaded is the reverse. Since it is impractical to drive my car on and off I added the manual winch and tilt cylinder. I can hold the bed tilted for loading and unloading without the chance of it going back to the flat position. I think that the trailer is well built with LED lights and other nice features. I hope this helps.
Mike Brown
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Thanks, Mike. I've been considering buying an aluminum tilt trailer so your opinion of your trailer helps me quite a bit. Do you know your trailer model number?
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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I think the Crosley won the 1951 Indianapolis demolition derby.
C'mon Joe, everyone knows that no Crosley has ever WON a demo derby. :cheers:
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Thanks, Mike. I've been considering buying an aluminum tilt trailer so your opinion of your trailer helps me quite a bit. Do you know your trailer model number?
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Neil,
My trailer is a 8214HS. The following is a link to the trailer on the Aluma website.
http://www.alumaklm.com/utility/single-heavy-axle/8214hs-utility-trailer
Mike Brown
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Thanks, Mike.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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All of the mile/mile and a half events now require front brakes. I did not want to bolt on some metric GM calipers and rotors that would be hanging out in the wind, the car already has poor aero and I did not want to make it worse. I decided to fabricate some disc brakes that will fit inside the rims of the front tires. I had already machined the vented rotors off of the hubs I am using. I really like how the Wilwood rotors on the rear are driven by castellated dogs and held in place with a large snap ring. I decided that I could do a similar design for the front keeping it compact. I machined drive slots in my hubs. There were diagonal gussets cast into the hub. I machined the gussets down to the same depth as the slots (for 1/4" thick rotors). They were drilled and tapped 1/4-20 for bolts to secure the rotors to the hubs.
Mike where did you get your information from that all of the mile/ mile and a half events now require front brakes? ECTA had considered that chage for 2017 but decided to not go forward with it that was decided before not having a location to run on this year. Your saying its changed?
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All of the mile/mile and a half events now require front brakes. I did not want to bolt on some metric GM calipers and rotors that would be hanging out in the wind, the car already has poor aero and I did not want to make it worse. I decided to fabricate some disc brakes that will fit inside the rims of the front tires. I had already machined the vented rotors off of the hubs I am using. I really like how the Wilwood rotors on the rear are driven by castellated dogs and held in place with a large snap ring. I decided that I could do a similar design for the front keeping it compact. I machined drive slots in my hubs. There were diagonal gussets cast into the hub. I machined the gussets down to the same depth as the slots (for 1/4" thick rotors). They were drilled and tapped 1/4-20 for bolts to secure the rotors to the hubs.
Ron,
The 2016 ECTA rule book page 31 paragraph 3.W states 175 MPH and over - four-wheel brakes are required. I was told when I went through tech in 2016 that because the rule books came out late for 2016 they were not going to enforce the rule until 2017.
Mike Brown
Mike where did you get your information from that all of the mile/ mile and a half events now require front brakes? ECTA had considered that chage for 2017 but decided to not go forward with it that was decided before not having a location to run on this year. Your saying its changed?
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The rotor will definitely fit inside the rim of the front tire. With the brake line connection on the back of the caliper I think a small cutout will suffice for the caliper.
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I machined caliper mounts from 3/4" thick aluminum plate.
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I needed a 1-1/8" thick spacer from the spindle flange to where I was going to mount my inner wheel discs. I machined the spacer from extruded aluminum tube. I was able to purchase 6" OD 4" ID aluminum tube online from Speedy Metals. They sell this tube by the fraction of the inch. I was able to get blanks cut 1-1/4" tall. This greatly reduced the material cost and machining time for these spacers. The material was at the house two days after the order. A good company to deal with.
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The inner wheel covers were fabricated from 14 gauge galvaneal steel. I did get those fabricated on a turret punch. The hole that the caliper protrudes through I cut with a sabre saw.
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A view of the inner wheel disc, caliper mount and hub with rotor.
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A view of the inner wheel disc with the wheel in place from the front.
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A view of the caliper sticking through the inner wheel disc. Now onto adding a master cylinder with lever and plumbing.
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Nice job of getting the calipers almost completely out of the airstream. How much clearance wheel-rim-to-inner-disc?
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Nice job of getting the calipers almost completely out of the airstream. How much clearance wheel-rim-to-inner-disc?
I have about 3/16" from the inside of the inner disc to the inside of the wheel rim. The rolled edge on the perimeter of the rim is slightly further inboard than the disc. After I machined the spacer I debated if it would be better to have the inner disc flush with this edge. With the aero on this car I was over thinking it. I hope the aero is better with the inner discs and brakes than it was before I added the brakes.
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I decided to drill the caliper slider bolts and safety wire them. I need to figure out a location for the front brake master cylinder and then plumb the new brakes.
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I used a Wilwood kart master cylinder for the front brakes. I added a lever for operation. The plumbing was short so I used Areoquip braided stainless #3 lines and fittings. An advantage of braided lines is being able to temporarily relocate the master cylinder so I could bleed the brakes without a second person. The brakes bleed well and at about 1/4 stroke the lever is very firm. I will put the master cylinder back in the car, secure the lines with some Adele clamps and we should be good to go.
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A photo of the hand brake installed in the cockpit. Not much room left for anything else!
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When going through my initial tech inspection the inspectors did not like the shield that I had fabricated to protect the fuel line as it crossed the bell housing. They suggested that it could be improved by using pipe to protect the lines in the area that they crossed the bell housing. I re-plumbed the fuel lines for better protection. The #10 AN fuel line received a 180 degree fitting at the tank and 90 degree fitting at the fuel pressure regulator which redirected the line so it does not enter the bell housing area. The #8 AN pressure line to the fuel rail was relocated so that it was straight in the section over the bell housing. I was then able to use a section of pipe to protect the fuel line as it crosses the bell housing. I added a tab so that the fuel filter could be secured to the section of pipe with a hose clamp. 1/4" thick steel bar secures the pipe the frame work that holds the fuel tank, intercooler tank, battery and fuel system.
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Awesome work Mike. That's a neat job.
Great build. Thank you. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Loring will be a 22 hour drive for us. I wanted to make a dyno run to make sure that the stumble I had on first run at Ohio was battery voltage related and that the alternator fixed the problem. After getting setup on the dyno some bad behavior showed up. John at Weapon X in Cincinnati determined that I had the MAP and BARO sensor connections reversed. We swapped the connections and did some additional checks and all was good. The engine cooling water was getting warm so I decided on a pull in second gear for more my full throttle run. This is not as accurate as fourth gear pull. The pull resulted in 480 rear wheel horsepower. John let me know that my blower belt was slipping a little but the air fuel ratios were good indicating that my fuel system was performing well. I plan to make some passes at Kilkare Dragstrip in Xenia Ohio to check the chute and then back to the dyno for a few more pulls. I will be better prepared with additional water for the cooling system. The staff at Weapon X are the real deal. It was great to have John there to further educate me on the LSA engine.
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Will look you up at Loring.
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My wife and I made it to Kilkare dragstrip for a test & tune session yesterday. The weather was oppressive however the staff at Kilkare were both helpful and professional. We made three 100 mph 1/4 mile passes. There was no "shimmy" in the front end like that I had experienced at the Ohio Mile. My assumption was affirmed that the steering arms from Speedway Motors were the culprit in the "shimmy" problem. On the third pass I deployed the chute for the first time. The chute worked well even at 100 mph. The Kilkare staff was nice enough to gather my chute up after I turned off the track so that it could be put on top of car and not get caught on the concrete barrier, easy up tent, cooler etcetera. I believe that a trip to Loring may be in our future.
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I decided that a windshield would eliminate some of the buffeting that I experienced on the test runs at the dragstrip. I used cardboard to create a pattern that was transferred to 3/16" acrylic. I smoothed the edges cut on a band saw then beveled the corners to reduce the chance of cracks.
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I attached the windshield to the body using 1/4-20 phillips truss head screws with 1-1/4" diameter fender washers to spread the load.
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My experience with clear acrylic sheet is that it is extremely notch sensitive. Glazing shops routinely score a line and crack acrylic verses sawing it. The same goes for holes which concentrate the stress. So I make large holes using Uni-Bits or negative rake drill bits designed specifically for plastics. These bits "scrape" the material out verses cutting. I use a very slow speed. The hole then gets the tool marks polished out and the edges chamfered using a single flute countersink. To prevent the threads of the fastener from touching the acrylic I machine a spacer that is a slip fit into the hole. This spacer also prevents the fastener from tightening down on the acrylic. The spacers are machined .005" taller than the material. To make the windshield easy to remove when transporting I used Nutserts in the body so there is no need to get to fasteners inside the body.
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We traveled to Maine for the Loring Timing event. The staff was spectacular. We made three runs on Saturday. The first at approximately 125 mph, the second at approximately 150 mph and the last at 191.87 mph. I did not change the engine cooling water all day. On the last run the intercooler water temperature was over 140 degrees after the return trip to the pits. I suspect that the ECU was dialing out some timing from the engine. I was also not able to concentrate on the tachometer so I was shifting late when I felt the car stop accelerating due to the rev limiter. I plan to eliminate the tachometer and just use a shift light. I think that there was room for a higher speed if the shifts were quicker. The chassis performed well. There was no shimmy on the front wheels at all. The original shimmy issue must have been caused by the Speedway Motors steel steering arms flexing. I would also like to add a logger to the OBD2 port on the controller so I can review the engine performance.
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There was no record at Loring for B/BFL so I established it at 191.87 mph.
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My son helped servicing the car between runs. Andy Welker told me that the track was rough on chutes. Three runs and there were holes in the bag that holds the main chute. I will send the bag back to Bob Stroud to be reworked.
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Cool! Way to go!
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The bag is dead meat flopping around out there, it's always going to get beat to death. I cut them off & toss them. If you're packing the tow line with long loops as shown in that pic you are running the risk of it tangling. 10 to 12" overlays work best creating a tighter pack to also prevent pilot spring creep.
Sid.
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After my run at Loring I felt a need for more data. I added an OBII data logger from AEM. The logger has a built in 3 axis accelerometer along with the ability to log 42 different codes in real time from the engine ECU. This will allow me to see what is going on with intake air temperature, timing, fuel, supercharger boost and shift point rpm etcetera. So far it has been an easy installation with a two wire connection to the GMLAN output, power, ground and a switch input to control when the logging starts and stops. I am anxious for the 2018 ECTA season as Blytheville Arkansas is only an 8 hour drive from home.
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Mike,
Duke and I will be watching with great interest your installation and use of the AEM data recorder. That is the same unit that Nathan Stewart suggested for us, Nathan said that it has 8 analog channels which may be enough for our use but being able to go with the CAN system certainly opens up lots of potential information. (Maybe more than we really need!)
Rex
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Always be careful what you ask for Rex! :-o :-D
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I was at the PRI show and asked for some assistance at the AEM booth with the programming to make the LS oil pressure signal read correctly on the AEM logger and it turned out that I was speaking with Nathan. What a small world. He showed me how easy it actually was to do. My logger is up and running.
I used SFI45.1 roll bar padding from Jegs on the round tubes of my cage. It was really stiff and prone to cracking when I installed it. With the very little UV exposure outside it has turned brown and cracking more. Any suggestions on a better SFI45.1 round roll bar padding?
Thanks,
Mike Brown
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The AEM wiring harness was expensive so I purchased the individual parts (listed in the manual) and made my own. It turned out great.
Mike Brown
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I need a shift on the car as it was too difficult to drive and concentrate on the tach at the same time. My tach came with a shift light but it was too large to fit in a location that could be easily seen and did not interfere with vision of the track. I created new shift using a socket for a clearance light and a new yellow LED bulb. I used the connector and section of wire from the original shift light as a pigtail. The connections were soldered and secured with heat shrink tubing that has adhesive inside. I fabricated a quick bracket that will be secured to the tubing with wire ties.
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The shift light is high enough to be seen while driving and does not obstruct the view.
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When I built the car there was that rush to get it running. I plumbed the engine coolant overflow into intercooler tank while I was figuring out where to put a dedicated tank. So far the engine coolant has not overflowed into the intercooler tank but planning for that eventuality I fabricated a dedicated coolant overflow tank. I included a dip tube so that if the coolant did overflow when hot it could draw water back from the overflow tank when it cooled down. I added a drain and a breather. Packaging in a belly tank is always the challenge (I heard that on this forum from someone!). I was able to squeeze in a tank made from 4" diameter aluminum 12" tall.
We are registered for the April ECTA event in Blytheville Arkansas. Excited to run on the new track.
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I included a photo of the tank installed between the fuel tank and the engine ECU.
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Mike,
Duke and I will be watching with great interest your installation and use of the AEM data recorder. That is the same unit that Nathan Stewart suggested for us, Nathan said that it has 8 analog channels which may be enough for our use but being able to go with the CAN system certainly opens up lots of potential information. (Maybe more than we really need!)
Rex
Always be careful what you ask for Rex! :-o :-D
YES! Be careful of "Information Constipation" ! ! ! Gigabytes of "data" can overwhelm. Make sure you have analysis software, and get familiar with using it. Have a plan to rate data in level of relevance/importance.
Having given my warning, I'll also say this: Data logging is probably the ONLY way you are going to gain insight into the dynamic conditions of the vehicle during a "run". You need to learn how to "Verify & trust" the data from your system.
:cheers:
Datadrivenboy
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Mike, we do something similar with coolant recovery. Works like a charm.
John
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I have used Jaz fuel tanks for a long time however todays pump gas caused the seal on the cap to swell requiring prying to get the cap off. Jaz sent me an O-ring seal verses the cup style seal at no charge. This worked better but the cap seemed loose. OK probably for water on the intercooler tank but I did not like it for the fuel tank. While at the PRI I ordered a new cap from Jaz that uses the O-ring seal that seemed much better. The mating portion of the cap is a machined aluminum ring verses the stamped steel. The only difficulty is that the new cap requires a 1/16" larger diameter hole in the tank than the original. I finally drained the tank removed it, enlarged the hole then spent way too much time cleaning the tank out before reinstalling it. I hope this resolves the issues that I was having. The photo shows the new style cap on the fuel tank and the old style on the intercooler water tank.
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I was at the PRI show and asked for some assistance at the AEM booth with the programming to make the LS oil pressure signal read correctly on the AEM logger and it turned out that I was speaking with Nathan. What a small world. He showed me how easy it actually was to do. My logger is up and running.
I used SFI45.1 roll bar padding from Jegs on the round tubes of my cage. It was really stiff and prone to cracking when I installed it. With the very little UV exposure outside it has turned brown and cracking more. Any suggestions on a better SFI45.1 round roll bar padding?
Thanks,
Mike Brown
Orange Aid tube padding was SFI rated and far superior than that rock hard stuff. The guy that invented it actually told me you could pass the SFI testing with a 2x4 stud. Not my idea of "padding" The company changed around and I had to dig the last time I looked for the product.
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I was at the PRI show and asked for some assistance at the AEM booth with the programming to make the LS oil pressure signal read correctly on the AEM logger and it turned out that I was speaking with Nathan. What a small world. He showed me how easy it actually was to do. My logger is up and running.
I used SFI45.1 roll bar padding from Jegs on the round tubes of my cage. It was really stiff and prone to cracking when I installed it. With the very little UV exposure outside it has turned brown and cracking more. Any suggestions on a better SFI45.1 round roll bar padding?
Thanks,
Mike Brown
Orange Aid tube padding was SFI rated and far superior than that rock hard stuff. The guy that invented it actually told me you could pass the SFI testing with a 2x4 stud. Not my idea of "padding" The company changed around and I had to dig the last time I looked for the product.
Thanks, I will look them up.
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Mike,
Duke and I will be watching with great interest your installation and use of the AEM data recorder. That is the same unit that Nathan Stewart suggested for us, Nathan said that it has 8 analog channels which may be enough for our use but being able to go with the CAN system certainly opens up lots of potential information. (Maybe more than we really need!)
Rex
Always be careful what you ask for Rex! :-o :-D
YES! Be careful of "Information Constipation" ! ! ! Gigabytes of "data" can overwhelm. Make sure you have analysis software, and get familiar with using it. Have a plan to rate data in level of relevance/importance.
Having given my warning, I'll also say this: Data logging is probably the ONLY way you are going to gain insight into the dynamic conditions of the vehicle during a "run". You need to learn how to "Verify & trust" the data from your system.
:cheers:
Datadrivenboy
I am sure that I will have more data than I will know what to do with at first. I three immediate areas that I would like data o. My primary concern is wheel slip at speed. I can't rely on a visual of the tach to know how fast I should be going verses actual speed. The car is light at 2,800 pounds. I hope to find out if I need more weight or more horsepower. I an currently running a stock GM ECU which uses a MAF sensor. I would like to eliminate the drag of the external air filter and plumbing but will need to see if the MAF sensor readings go crazy when I remove the air filter. The engine is supercharged and intercooled. If the intake air temperature gets too high the ECU will be pulling timing and horsepower. Without logging this data I will never know what the ECU is doing.
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Mike, we do something similar with coolant recovery. Works like a charm.
John
I like your coolant recovery tank. I thought about a square tank but then thought about all the welding and then realized that I had some 4" OD 1/8" wall aluminum laying around.
Mike
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Mike:
That vented square aluminum tank is an oil puke tank. The round black plastic Maroso tank is for coolant recovery.
John
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Mike,
Duke and I will be watching with great interest your installation and use of the AEM data recorder. That is the same unit that Nathan Stewart suggested for us, Nathan said that it has 8 analog channels which may be enough for our use but being able to go with the CAN system certainly opens up lots of potential information. (Maybe more than we really need!)
Rex
Always be careful what you ask for Rex! :-o :-D
YES! Be careful of "Information Constipation" ! ! ! Gigabytes of "data" can overwhelm. Make sure you have analysis software, and get familiar with using it. Have a plan to rate data in level of relevance/importance.
Having given my warning, I'll also say this: Data logging is probably the ONLY way you are going to gain insight into the dynamic conditions of the vehicle during a "run". You need to learn how to "Verify & trust" the data from your system.
:cheers:
Datadrivenboy
I am sure that I will have more data than I will know what to do with at first. I three immediate areas that I would like data o. My primary concern is wheel slip at speed. I can't rely on a visual of the tach to know how fast I should be going verses actual speed. The car is light at 2,800 pounds. I hope to find out if I need more weight or more horsepower. I an currently running a stock GM ECU which uses a MAF sensor. I would like to eliminate the drag of the external air filter and plumbing but will need to see if the MAF sensor readings go crazy when I remove the air filter. The engine is supercharged and intercooled. If the intake air temperature gets too high the ECU will be pulling timing and horsepower. Without logging this data I will never know what the ECU is doing.
Mike,
In a word, YES.
Drivers simply have "too much to do", (say . . . self-preservation . . . .), at speed, to be reliable readers of gauges and be expected to report back the readings. Data logging of gauge readings, or even a cheap Go-Pro camera aimed at the gauge panel, can solve that problem.
If the throttle body opening and/or the MAF sensor location is perpendicular (approximately) to the air-stream or so, without the airbox/filter/etc, expect issues with the sensor. Any large fluctuations in pressure or flow at the MAF sensor are going to cause you problems. And you are correct to think you will need data to resolve said problems.
I realize that this is a simplistic answer, but, some sort of low drag ducting to your inlet should resolve your issue. You need to get Woody interested to help you solve this.
:cheers:
F/b
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I added a drain to my intercooler tank. I machined a bulkhead fitting from stainless steel and used 1/4" ball valve. I use a garden hose to drain the water tanks by installing a garden hose thread to 1/4" npt adapter. As insurance against a leak I install caps over the garden hose output.
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I use an open trailer to haul the lakester around. I had a tonneau cover made to cover the cockpit. I did not want to use snap bases with the long sheet metal screw protruding out the back. I tried #6 button socket cap screws but the snaps did not fit well over them. I machined the #6 button head screws into a flat head. My Haas lathe has a feature that allows you to select the angle, ID or OD and when you crank one handle the other handle moves appropriately to cut the angle you programmed. So I turned the button head screws into flat heads that worked great.
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A photo of the tonneau from the rear.
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A photo of the tonneau from the rear.
All the years I trailed my lakester on an open trailer I just covered everything with a nice custom fit car cover the material used was boat canvas . Each time i modified the body design the cover was updated to continue form fitting the race car. Every time we took the car out for a race event it would always rain this luck with the weather continued with our long trips to Bonneville the cover has withstood everything thrown at it very happy with the material used.
Ronnieroadster
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When Duke and I got ready to go to Bonneville last year Duke bought a roll of shipping plasstic, about 20 inches wide and we wrapped the car from the nose to the back of the canopy. That stuff sticks to itself pretty well and it kept the car clean all the to and from the salt. It looks like we probably have enough to do at least one or two more trips. Not as custom as your cover or a custom tonneau cover but seemed to work well.
Rex
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Rex, I've seen the Ack Attack bike show up on the salt all wrapped in stretch wrap, too, but yours is the first feedback on how well it works.
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When Duke and I got ready to go to Bonneville last year Duke bought a roll of shipping plasstic, about 20 inches wide and we wrapped the car from the nose to the back of the canopy. That stuff sticks to itself pretty well and it kept the car clean all the to and from the salt. It looks like we probably have enough to do at least one or two more trips. Not as custom as your cover or a custom tonneau cover but seemed to work well.
Rex
Thats a great idea Rex :cheers:
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I like the plastic wrap idea myself. When returning from Loring last fall it started raining. I had a roll of the plastic wrap but it was too large to go under the car. I wrapped the cage as much as I could then used tough tape (nylon filament) to secure it all. The wind started pulling at the plastic wrap and I added some duct tape which did hold. Removing the residue from the duct tape when I got home was a chore. I decided that I didn't want to do that again so I had the tonneau made.
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I received my information packet and rule book in the mail this week for the Arkansas ECTA event. In the section on tires there was a new section in italics. The key information is that tires manufactured earlier than 2012 (per the date code on the tire) will not be allowed. I checked the date code on my tires which was 2014 so I have a couple of years left before these tires will no longer be allowed. It would be a long ride back home if I couldn't compete because my tires were out of date.
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Okay - here's a hint that'll make your inspector happy: Find the date code on your tires and highlight them. Use a silver sharpie or yellow chalk or something that's easy to find and circle or somehow mark the date. Having searched way too many times to find the code on bike tires (we've had a ten-year age limit for a long time) I finally started carrying said silver marker when inspectnig and marking the little oval so everyone could find it easily the next time(s).
You're welcome. :-D
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We went to the inaugural ECTA event in Blytheville Arkansas. It is about an eight hour drive for us. The track is very nice at 10,000 feet long, about an additional 1,000 feet longer than Wilmington. The Strupps are doing a great job getting the event organized. The weather however did not cooperate. There were no runs made on Friday due to high winds then rain. Thunderstorms prevailed through the night until mid morning on Saturday. Cars were called to the line about 2 in the afternoon. We were about 5th to run. Everyone was a "rookie" so no runs above 175 mph were allowed. I made a warm up pass at 147.2 mph to check the chute and brakes. During the run I again shifted at the rev limiter as my shift light never came on. I later determined that the tach doesn't store the setting, the adjustment on the face of the tach is live. I bumped the adjustment getting strapped into the car and it was set at 10,000 rpm, I wasn't going to hit that one. Note to self, check the rev limit setting each time before starting the engine. The second run of the day was not to happen due to a window blown out on the track, high wind then rain. The good news is that we were number 3 for Sunday. We started early Sunday, I checked the shift light setting and made a run of 183.7 mph. That was a few tenths faster than my mile speed at Loring. We enjoyed the event even though there was not much racing and a lot of down time. That run set the record for B/BFL at Blytheville. The previous B/BFL records at Wilmington was 141.8 mph and 154.3 mph at Maxton. I am looking for the next 17 mph to make the 200 club.
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That was a good meet for you. It looks like you had a lot of success.
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During my 183 mph run at Blytheville I felt the rear of the car move to the left after I shifted into second gear. The rear tires were loosing traction. I am running a spool in the rear end. Woody sent me a video of that run with a note that read "Stay OFF the paint!!!". Watching the video it was clear that my right rear tire was on the paint of the runway surface. When getting back on the throttle after shifting it was patently evident that the car shifted 6 inches or more to the left as the left tire had more traction than the right. Lesson learned, stay off the paint. Thanks Woody!
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During my 183 mph run at Blytheville ....... evident that the car shifted 6 inches or more to the left as the left tire had more traction than the right.
If I had been driving then the very next sentence would read ...... and then the car shifted 6 inches back to the right as the left tire lost traction running over a trail of runny poo.
John
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Last night we went to Kilkare dragstrip in Xenia Ohio. Everyone associated with the track has been great to deal with. They are very helpful. The first pass was good except that I banged up against the rev limiter yet again. I checked the setting before starting the engine and it was set at 6,000 rpm however I must have bumped it or it vibrated out of position. I have to get that fixed one way or another. I roll off of the starting line, when the clutch is fully engaged I can then apply full throttle. A quick shift into second gear and I am at the finish line. I keep the speed below 100 mph and I can easily slow down for the first turnoff using just the brakes. We got off to a slow start as someone ahead of us in a new Corvette (less than 500 miles) had trouble doing a burnout. They turned the traction control off, did the burnout then left the line without traction control. About 600 feet down the track they lost control, spun twice and crashed head on into the concrete barrier. The driver was OK but in my estimation the car was totaled. It took over an hour to remove the car and clean the track. During my second run after shifting into second gear the rear of the car shifted to the left, I eased off the throttle, got control then finished the run. The race director attributed the lack of traction to rolling through the water box before heading to the starting line and not doing a burn out. I will drive around the water box next time. I did get logs from the data logger which was the main goal. Now to figure out how to make the logs useful.
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I attached a screen shot of the data log from the drag strip. Short but revealing. The middle graph shows engine RPM. The top graph is throttle position and intake pressure in PSI. The bottom graph is G force from the built in accelerometers. The purple line is linear acceleration. At one point early on in first gear the car stops accelerating even thought the RPM is coming up indicating that the tires are slipping. I could not tell this from drivers seat. At the 2:54 mark the green lines show lateral acceleration which is where the rear end went right then left. At the same time the purple line shows that the car is not accelerating at the same rate while the rear end is moving left and right. I am really enjoying this. A big shout out to Nathan for pointing me to the tutorials on Youtube.
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The chassis felt like at times that it was flexing. I decided to connect the main frame hoop at the front of the engine to the rear frame hoop to the parachute tube to stiffen the chassis. The connectors needed to be removable in order to access to the engine. The frame hoops are very close to the engine when removing or installing it in the chassis. The attachment points needed to not protrude very much into the engine space. I decided to weld blocks of steel the hoops. The blocks protrude about 1/4" into the engine space. I then used doublers made from 1/4" thick steel to connect the links to the blocks. The links can be preloaded when installed in the chassis by virtue that the front link has left and right hand threaded rod ends. This allows me to loosen the link for installation and removal while tightening the link before final torque on all the other fasteners. I machined the parts "cookie cutter" style on the CNC mill. I machine the holes in the material blanks first then use the holes to fasten the material to a plate so that I can machine the entire perimeter on the mill.
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A photo of the front link showing the rod ends along with its attachment to the center frame hoop and front frame hoop.
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A photo of the rear link showing its attachment to the center frame hoop and parachute tube.
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I have received a lot of criticism of my air intake system from fellow racers. The intake system was a last minute project with a single goal. The goal is to supply air with low enough turbulence for a usable MAF sensor signal. I am running the stock GM ECU which relies on the MAF sensor to calculate the fuel for the engine. If I a cannot build an intake or scoop that will be lower drag and produce a usable MAF sensor I can have a custom tuneup which will delete the MAF signal and rely on the MAP sensors for load sensing. This will take substantial dyno time and calibration to create a speed density tune up. I am going to try to fabricate a new scoop that will reduce the drag and still produce a usable MAF signal. I can evaluate the MAF signal since I have this signal being logged on the AEM data logger. There is a new track within an hours drive in Indiana, https://infinite-speed.com/. The track is only a half mile with a 3,000 foot shutdown but better than a 1/4 mile dragstrip with a 1/4 mile shutdown. The owners cater to people with exotic street cars but has agreed to let me make a few test and tune passes.
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I have attached a photo of the new intake. I started with the fiberglass headrest that I bought with the original belly tank body that I did not use. This design is too short and did not produce good MAF sensor signals. I added an extension made from cardboard and tape which worked much better. Now I need to decide if I am going to fabricate and extension or start from scratch on a one piece longer design.
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The new scoop has a short section of intake tubing welded to a plate. This short section of tubing is connected to the rest of the intake system using a flexible coupling and hose clamps. The metal is attached to the fiberglass using methacrylate. This adhesive is the best that I have ever used between metal and other materials. I have not decided on starting on a longer scoop from scratch or extending this one. Hopefully I will get some good advice from friends who have been there done that.
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I decided to build a new scoop. I used the "column of air" calculations with the "Woody" factor along with hydraulic area calculations for the size of the scoop. The scoop is purposely long to hopefully not confuse the MAF sensor. I started with 1/8" aluminum folded into a channel. To improve the aerodynamics the tail will be tapered. I marked out a design with cardboard template so the design would be symmetrical and cut it out with a saber saw.
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I folded the tail section by hand and TIG welded the corners.
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I welded a 4 inch "spigot" to a back plate that will attach to the intake system with a flexible coupling. This back plate will form the floor of the scoop.
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The wonders of CNC. I machined what I hope to be a flow straightener that will go opposite the air intake with the MAF sensor (unless Woody chimes in to tell me that I should throw it in the trash). I used a section of 4-1/2" UHMW plastic. The UHMW is secured to a piece of aluminum as you can rarely machine this stuff directly in a three jaw chuck without tossing it out of the machine. Chip control is paramount as they are all continuous which can be very dangerous if they wrap around the tool post or worse yet a finger. One line of code to set the radius and another that reads that line to rough the shape out in steps before the final smooth cut. CNC machining still amazes me. I was hoping to try a few of these options to reduce drag while keeping the MAF sensor happy at the 1/2 mile event close to home. The event was canceled due to the rain. So we will give a try in a couple of weeks.
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Mike, Since you have a CNC lathe, you might consider machining the spigot and where it is connected to the scoop floor give it a nice large and smooth radius, then put a "blocking/turning" vane aft of the inlet spigot to direct the air to turn 90 degrees and go in your spigot. You mite even use two turning vanes, one about half way across the inlet spigot diameter that would only be about 1/2 of the scoop depth and then the final one that goes from the roof of the scoop to the floor with a nice radius. Also make sure that the scoop inlet is above the boundary layer at the inlet to insure full velocity air at the inlet.
Rex
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Rex,
Thanks for the input. The bottom of the scoop is about 5/8" out from the body. Is that enough to help with boundary flow issue?
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Mike,
Since your scoop is fairly far forward 5/8 should be good, the boundary layer should be pretty thin.
Rex
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The inside of the new scoop. Regardless of what I do the engine will barely idle unless there is a some sort of restriction in the intake system. I can simply place my hand over the intake with small gaps between my fingers and the engine idles good. I calculated the open area of the screen and added it in front of the my "flow straightener" and the engine idles good. It appears that the MAF sensor just needs some sort of pressure drop across it to work, I am not sure that turbulence is the real issue. My hand across the intake could not be particularly good at reducing turbulence however I can feel the pressure drop. I think it may be time to stop toying with the MAF sensor and get the speed density tune up.
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A photo of the new scoop attached to the car.
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Mike it looks good. Regarding the idle are you sure that the butterfly is closing completely?
Rex
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Rex,
I potentially know where you are going with this. For a decade I drove a Jeep with a blown early Hemi that had Hilborn mechanical fuel injection (prepared by Junior Thompson) and a Lenco transmission on the street. Those 3" butterflies rarely fully closed after cruising with reasonably high intake manifold vacuum regardless of how many return springs were used. An 1,100 rpm idle equated to .002" clearance between the butterflies and the injector housing. I had to rap on the throttle to reduce the intake manifold vacuum so the butterflies would snap shut. Not the safest thing to do on the street. I eventually replaced the mechanical fuel injection with a pair of Weber carburetors which had ball bearings on the throttle shafts which exhibited much better (safer) behavior on the street.
This is a modern computer controlled engine. The throttle is drive-by-wire with a servo motor operating the butterfly which is controlled by the engine electronic control unit. The throttle pedal is electronic. I was concerned about that and one of the reasons that I added the AEM data logger. There are multiple things going on between your foot and the butterfly. By trial and error I did find the actual butterfly position in the data log (I can watch it real time) and it looks OK. The actual idle speed is controlled by an idle air control motor. This is a stepper motor that works an idle air circuit that bypasses the main butterfly. This circuit is somewhat like the idle circuit on a Weber IDF carburetor.
On my initial dyno pull the tuner told me that my blower belt was slipping because the boost was never as high as it should have been. I only have a crankshaft pulley and blower pulley with a rib belt. I use a fixed tensioner verses a spring loaded version and did not think that the belt was slipping. Looking at the data from the Kilkare run (after I had tightened the belt) I still had low boost. I researched this and found that the blower bypass butterfly was set incorrectly from the factory. On most modern supercharged engines they use a butterfly in the intake system that allows the blower to be bypassed during normal driving which helps to keep the intake air temperatures down. The engine electronic control unit controls this butterfly with vacuum/boost pressure acting on a diaphragm and a solenoid. To keep the butterfly from sticking there is the equivalent of an idle adjustment screw. It was an improper adjustment of this screw that kept the butterfly open slightly further than it should have been reducing my boost. I am contemplating eliminating this feature. This feature is great on a vehicle with traction control and a body computer that helps to keep the average Joe from getting into too much trouble on the street but may be complicating driving a race vehicle with the goal of using the most horsepower available.
I am just in the infancy of figuring this combination out. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.
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Hi Mike, glad to see you're still hang in there and learning and progressing. Hope all is well.
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I use the Tilton 6000 series hydraulic clutch release bearings. The cockpit of the lakester is so small that I could not get enough stroke on the clutch pedal to insure a complete release of the dual disc LSA clutch. Sometimes there was a clash when shifting the transmission into gear when stopped. I never had any problems shifting the transmission when running. I was using the standard 7/8" master cylinder. So using the philosophy of if 7/8" is not large enough bigger must be better I installed 1-1/8" master cylinder. I had no more problems with the clutch releasing fully. After that I had multiple problems breaking the tires loose shifting into second gear. Both at Blytheville and Kilkare dragstrip. The clutch had a somewhat digital feel, in or out. I decided to try a 1" master cylinder which still gives me a full clutch release but retains some feeling that I can release the clutch smoothly without dumping it all at once. I was hoping to see how this theory worked in practice but the 1/2 mile event in Batesville Indiana was canceled do to angry homeowners adjacent to the track which resulted in the new facility owners seeking rezoning for the property. I will most likely head back to Kilkare dragstrip for a test & tune session.
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Last night I was at Kilkare dragstrip for a test & tune session. It was a wonderful cool evening. I was able to get in three 1/4 mile passes. The changes to the car all seemed good by the seat of the pants feel and the time slips. The additional link definitely stiffened up the chassis eliminating the bouncy feel during shutdown. The smaller clutch master cylinder gave me better feel of the clutch eliminating the digital feel while still insuring complete disengagement. The engine was making significantly more power I assume do to higher boost. I had the highest top speed (115.12) and lowest ET (12.1891) of all my test & tune sessions. This car is obviously not a dragster with a 2.48:1 rear gear so I roll off the starting line and do not press the throttle to the floor until after the clutch is fully engaged. For the first time the shift light came on in second gear and I had to shift into third gear. I have not reviewed the data from the logger but I would expect to higher boost since properly adjusting the boost bypass valve and we will see if the MAF sensor is happy with the new scoop. The staff at Kilkare is tops in my book. They are professional and run an orderly and safe event. The data from the $25 test & tune session is invaluable to me.
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Nothing you do in LSR is wasted time or energy. 8-)
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I attached a photo of the data from the last test & tune session at Kilkare drag strip. The middle graph is the MAF sensor signals which are very choppy. The tune up definitely needs to be changed from MAF to speed density. Note that at wide open throttle the ECU does not use these signals for fuel or timing. The bottom graph is the acceleration. The acceleration rate slows down at about the 1:39.5 mark, the rpms are still climbing at a fairly quick rate and I attribute that to traction issues as the tires are probably slipping. I do not heat the tires up with a burn out as I would never get that opportunity in a mile event. In the top graph I included three different signals. The white trace is the throttle position. You can clearly see taking off (40% throttle), shifting twice and shutdown. The green trace is rpm. The engine is about 3,000 rpm as I take off dipping to about 2,500 as the clutch engages and the car starts accelerating. You can see the rpm climb through the gears. I did not spend much time at full throttle in third gear so I think that the car will easily run quicker than 12 seconds in the quarter mile. The light blue trace is the MAP signal. Ambient air pressure is approximately 100 kPa so anything above that is supercharger boost. The disturbing thing is that as the RPM climbs the boost drops off. The most likely scenario is that the ribbed blower belt is slipping as boost increases. The tuners at Weapon-X have suggested that there is not enough belt wrap on the blower pulley. Their suggestion is to move the idler pulley closer to the blower pulley. So I did pick up some boost by adjusting the blower bypass butterfly however there is still substantial amounts of boost (horsepower) to be gained by correcting this belt slippage issue. My previous blower drives were all timing belt drives and I never had any belt slippage in that configuration. There is not room for a conventional timing belt drive with a 2.6:1 overdrive ratio needed for this small blower so I will look to optimize the ribbed belt drive. Without my AEM data logger I would not be able to diagnose problems like this, make changes then verify if the changes corrected the problem.
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That's a good display of data logging usefulness.
If the shifts weren't so lazy, ETs would be in the tens! :roll:
I don't understand why a timing belt blower drive of the same ratio wouldn't fit? Problem with minimum bend radius of toothed belt?
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Jack,
As always thanks for the comments. Test & tune sessions for me have always been about getting some data in an effort to improve the mile performance. I have always wanted to get data and not break any parts, hence rolling out easy waiting for the clutch to engage before applying full throttle and lazy shifts. The 12 second quarter mile was a little exciting and I may try a little more aggressive driving without breaking parts.
I am limited to not much more than an 8" crankshaft pulley due to my water tank construction. The factory ribbed belt is 7.8" diameter with a 3" diameter blower pulley which gives me a 2.6:1 ratio. The blower spins at 16,640 rpm with a 6,400 engine rpm. I can find crankshaft pulleys for 8mm gearbelt pulleys (I would have to change to an aftermarket harmonic balancer) in that size however I cannot find a blower pulley small enough. The crankshaft pulley would need to be reduced in width and custom blower pulley created. The OEM blower pulleys are steel and pressed onto the shaft, no keys, pins or other driving components. Aftermarket pulleys use a press on hub that the pulleys are bolted to much like when using a GMC type blower.
There are two aftermarket systems that are too wide for my application that I may be able to modify. I plan to make some changes over the winter in preparation for next year, I just haven't decided which way to go.
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I don't know about narrower, but I recently bought a 32 tooth 8mm pulley (3" wide belt). It didn't take me long to machine a hub for it to fit my crankshaft.
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With a little research I found that LSX Concepts has 8mm HTD upper and lower pulleys for $900 per pair. The lower pulley requires an aftermarket harmonic balancer for $500 and the upper pulley requires the Lingefelter 10 bolt hub for $65. The 8mm HTD belt is about $50. In my application I would need to design and build the idler pulley for this system as theirs uses attachment points on the OEM water pump. I don't have an OEM water pump. At the modest boost levels that I am looking at I may try a Gates "green" belt with the idler pulley mounted closer to the blower pulley. A trip to the drag strip for a test and tune session or a dyno session would let me know if this corrected the problem.
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Hey the nice part of that is "there is a solution... it just costs time and money" :cheers:
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Gee whizz, those pulleys are cheap as chips here.
Maybe I've got the wrong idea but I'll post a pic tomorrow.
Maybe you get lucky???.
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Gee whizz, those pulleys are cheap as chips here.
Maybe I've got the wrong idea but I'll post a pic tomorrow.
Maybe you get lucky???.
Thanks for the response, cheap as chips would make for a lucky day. I look forward to your reply.
Mike Brown
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I decided to change the drive ratio on the supercharger. Going from a 3" blower pulley to a 2-1/2" blower pulley will add a few psi of additional boost. With my alternator pulley attached to the blower pulley I needed an OEM style pulley. There are a variety of blower pulleys that utilize a separate hub with a pulley that bolts on to the hub however I would be unable to use my current alternator drive pulley. Lingenfelter makes an OEM style blower pulley in a 2-1/2" version so I purchased one. These pulleys are pressed on to the blower shaft so the blower snout will need to be removed so the old pulley can be removed and the new one pressed on. A trip to the dyno will be required to update the tune up for the increased boost. While I am there the plan is disable the MAF sensor and change to a speed density tuneup. I will keep the system closed loop so that the ECU can make short term fuel and timing trims based upon temperature, the presence of knock and O2 levels.
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For the want of about 1/2" clearance to a crankcase vent removal of the blower snout from the LSA engine requires raising the supercharger up slightly. After the intake top is removed and the supercharger is loose the snout comes off after you remove the six bolts holding it on.
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I attached a toothed timing belt pulley to the blower pulley to drive my alternator. The alternator was added and not part of the original construction. Not wanting the alternator pulley to come off and to be able to install it without removing the engine or blower snout (see earlier post) I machined the alternator pulley for a .001" shrink fit. The pulley was heated then set in place with red Loctite. In addition I drilled and pinned the pulley with 1/8" roll pins which was probably overkill. The alternator pulley was not coming off easily. I did not want to damage the blower snout so I chucked the snout up in the lathe. Luckily GM had a center machined in the shaft so I could use a live center in the tail stock to support the snout while I carefully machined the aluminum alternator pulley off of the blower pulley. It takes special tools to remove and replace the pulley. I will take the snout to Weapon-X here in Cincinnati to have the original pulley pressed off and the new one pressed on. I will then machine and install a new alternator pulley.
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A word of caution if you have not already checked into this theres a max RPM the blower is capable of withstanding do you know the number?
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Ronnie, isn't hot rodding the definition of determining if the limits are imposed by physics or lawyers? :-o :-D :cheers:
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The factory blower ratio is 2.74:1 which at my maximum rpms gives a blower speed of 17,536 rpm. My new blower ratio is 3.24:1 which gives me a blower speed of 20,736 rpm. Both Weapon-X and Lingenfelter recommend a maximum blower speed of 23,000 rpm. I should be safe at this speed. This will stretch my fuel injectors to the maximum at the stock fuel pressure. I am running an Aeromotive Eliminator fuel pump with boost referenced fuel pressure regulator so I will insure that I have adequate (higher than stock) fuel pressure at maximum power. This is why a good tuneup on a chassis dyno is must.
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I dropped the parts off to Weapon-X in Cincinnati to have the OEM blower pulley removed and the new pulley pressed on. They recommend "pinning" the pulley to the shaft since it is held in place with a press fit only. This is a comparison of the 3" OEM pulley and the Lingenfelter 2-1/2" pulley. This will speed the blower up approximately 18%.
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The SCTA has deemed that "D" rings are not safe to secure arm restraints like those on my SFI-20 fire suite. The "D" rings can be used as an attachment point.
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The fix is to use flat buckles like these to secure the adjustment. Thanks to Joe Timney of Delaware Chassis Works for supplying these.
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The fix took about 10 minutes.
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I'm at a loss to verify this reply – I've given away all my current Rule Books. But, as I remember, somewhere it says that the arm restraint must be at the smallest place on the arm (which makes sense it that it won't move back and forth). And some inspectors, not all, will not pass it when it's up on the forearm. Comments?
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YES .. on smallest part of arm , generally the wrist area .. STEVE
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The new blower pulley is pressed on so I need to machine another timing belt pulley to drive the alternator. The only accurate way that I know to insure the new bore in the pulley is concentric when the hub is machined off is to bore and relieve softjaws for the lathe. The slot prevents contact with the flanges.
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The new pulley chucked up and ready to machine.
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The new blower pulley machined.
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The new blower and alternator pulleys installed. The alternator pulley was a shrink fit on the blower pulley hub secured with Loctite. After the Loctite cures I will drill and pin the pulley in place to insure that it does not come loose.
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I'm at a loss to verify this reply – I've given away all my current Rule Books. But, as I remember, somewhere it says that the arm restraint must be at the smallest place on the arm (which makes sense it that it won't move back and forth). And some inspectors, not all, will not pass it when it's up on the forearm. Comments?
The fire suit was manufactured by Stroud Safety. The arm restraints are integral to the fire suit. I was advised that Bob Stroud submitted for and received compliance.
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Mike, will that pull shaft stay cool enough to use Loctite? Some types of it lose grip strength at elevated temps.
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Mike,
Are you planning to cross pin the pulley to the shaft or "Dutch" pin it? For something like this I really prefer the Dutch pin method as it is like putting in a precision key. When you have dis similar metals like you have you really need to do it with a small milling cutter, carbide if possible. This is a favorite way to key things together of the "Kansas Bad Man" Max Lambky.
Nice job on the soft jaws!!
Rex
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"The fire suit was manufactured by Stroud Safety. The arm restraints are integral to the fire suit. I was advised that Bob Stroud submitted for and received compliance."
It (like mine) was probably in compliance when it was manufactured. So we're following what I believe to be the "letter of the law" and we have a new strap located on the wrist with the proper hardware. We were told to make that modification and used it all last year. I'd hate to get to a meet and have a problem . . .
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Mike, will that pull shaft stay cool enough to use Loctite? Some types of it lose grip strength at elevated temps.
I installed the original alternator pulley with red Loctite (271) a shrink fit and two 1/8" spring dowel pins. After drilling out the dowel pins and using a heat gun I was unable to remove the original alternator pulley. I did not want to heat it up with a torch and risk damaging the shaft or bearings so I machined the pulley off in the lathe. I have an infrared temperature meter so I can check the temperature at the end of a run. So far at the end of a run I have been able to touch all of the parts on the top of the engine so I estimate that they are 160 degrees or less. Loctite lists the maximum temperature of 271 at 450 degrees F. This could be why it is called "red death".
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Mike,
Are you planning to cross pin the pulley to the shaft or "Dutch" pin it? For something like this I really prefer the Dutch pin method as it is like putting in a precision key. When you have dis similar metals like you have you really need to do it with a small milling cutter, carbide if possible. This is a favorite way to key things together of the "Kansas Bad Man" Max Lambky.
Nice job on the soft jaws!!
Rex
Thanks for the comment on the soft jaws. I am planning to cross pin the shaft with two short 1/8" spring pins. I have used "Dutch" pins but prefer keys and keyways where possible. I own broaches for cutting keyways and Woodruff cutters for keyseats. The blower pulley is a press fit onto the blower shaft. I am hesitant to remove material from the blower pulley with machining for a keyway or a Dutch pin for fear of loosening the press fit of the blower pulley to the blower shaft. With the combination of Loctite and a shrink fit I had to machine the original alternator pulley off of the blower pulley to remove it so I have confidence that it will stay put.
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"The fire suit was manufactured by Stroud Safety. The arm restraints are integral to the fire suit. I was advised that Bob Stroud submitted for and received compliance."
It (like mine) was probably in compliance when it was manufactured. So we're following what I believe to be the "letter of the law" and we have a new strap located on the wrist with the proper hardware. We were told to make that modification and used it all last year. I'd hate to get to a meet and have a problem . . .
I sent the same photo of the arm restraints with buckles to the tech directors of the SCTA, ECTA and LTA. They all replied that these arm restraints were acceptable.
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This was my original tensioner for the supercharger drive belt. There was no spring just a jack bolt to tighten the belt. The idler pulley was too close to the crankshaft pulley.
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I fabricated a new idler pulley tensioner arm that moved the pulley closer to the supercharger pulley. With a smaller blower pulley and the same length belt there is substantially more wrap on the supercharger pulley. The new arm utilizes double shear for the idler pulley mount. The doubler plates are made from 1/4" aluminum.
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I found a photo of the original blower idler. It was a compact system that fit well but was definitely too close to the crankshaft pulley.
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YES .. on smallest part of arm , generally the wrist area .. STEVE
There is a thread on Landracing.com with extensive information regarding the rule change for arm restraints. It appears that the "smallest part of the arm" refers to "non sewn in restraints". So if you have a fire suit with integral sewn in arm restraints and change to the 3-bar style adjusters you meet the new requirements.
4. Section 3.D.3 Arm/Leg Restraints: Page: 42 Add what is in bold after the first sentence in the first paragraph; SFI specification 3.3 arm restrains with a manufacture date of 2006 or later are required in all vehicles. IN ADDITION: ALL ARM RESTRAINT HARDWARE MUST BE OF A SINGLE PIECE MANUFACTURE. I.E. NO TWO PIECE OR WELDED “D” RING STYLE ADJUSTERS. ADJUSTABLE TETHERS SHOULD USE A 3-BAR SYSTEM SIMILAR TO THAT USED IN LAP BELT ADJUSTERS. NON-SEWN IN RESTRAINTS SHALL HAVE A TIGHT FIT AROUND THE NARROWEST PART OF THE ARM. ALL ARM RESTRAINTS MUST BE DEMONSTRATED TO BE EFFECTIVE.
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Part of the tuneup changes for this year is to eliminate the ECUs control over the supercharger boost. The supercharger has the previously mentioned bypass valve that "unloads" the supercharger. The concept is that the blower is unloaded during high vacuum in the intake manifold. This reduces intake air temperatures when no boost is required. In addition via a solenoid valve controlled by the ECU the boost can be turned off or modulated to a lower level. This is necessary in modern high horsepower cars to make them driveable. Typically the body computer tells the ECU that traction has been lost or dynamic stability is at risk to reduce the boost. I don't have a body computer and want my boost on all the time only to be controlled by my throttle. Most tuning professionals don't recommend eliminating the boost control valve but it can be replumbed without the solenoid so under high vacuum conditions the valve is opened to the bypass position. When the throttle is opened and vacuum drops the spring in the dashpot closes the valve allowing boost to build. I removed the solenoid on my engine and plumbed the dashpot directly to a port in the intake that sees both vacuum and boost. Aftermarket superchargers like those manufactured by Magnuson have a bypass valve that operates in this fashion. It will be interesting to see if this helps with the performance.
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The new supercharger tensioning system is ready to install. I machined a socket with ball recess for the jack bolt that will hold the idler pulley in place. The jack bolt has a brass tip with a ball end machined on it. Note that the post is welded to the mounting plate for those with a sharp eye. The 8-32 flathead screw held the post to the plate while I was aligning everything before welding.
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The tensioner installed. The alternator has been removed for easier access. The post that has the jack bolt bolts to holes in the end of the cylinder head. The alternator mount is slotted for adjustment so I could not weld the post to that plate. I think with the experience of building a belly tank lakester I should build ships in a bottle when I retire.
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Today I replaced my AutoMeter tachometer and shift light with an obsolete Stewart Warner B-757 shift light. A land racing friend uses one on his flat head powered roadster with great success. I found the shift light on Ebay for $68 including shipping. It is a very basic shift light that uses LEDs. There is a small numeric display that shows RPM and nine really bright yellow LEDs that illuminate at a preset rpm. The rpm setting on my original tachometer was an analog knob. I kept accidentally bumping the knob and changing the shift point. The shift point was usually higher which led to running up against the rev limiter in the ECU. I did not like any options that I came up with lock the knob down. This shift light is digitally programmable for shift point and pulses per revolution. These settings are retained when power is removed. I put a matching connector on the shift light so that it can be easily swapped with the tachometer if needed. I fired the LSA up to test the shift light. The over driven supercharger pulley is now installed along with the removal of the boost control solenoid. The engine now builds boost very quickly. We will see if this is an advantage on the next test and tune session.
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After much research I have decided to stay with the MAF tune up on the LSA engine. The engine will still need a tune up on a dyno to expand the VE tables to match the increased boost from the smaller blower pulley. The factor engine controller has short and long term trim tables that are used to store fuel and ignition changes that the controller learns while running. With a battery disconnect switch which kills all battery power this information is lost and the controller starts from scratch each time the engine is started. I decided to wire a circuit that has constant battery power to the controller so that these trims can be stored and viewed. The long term goal is to make these changes permanent. As the engine gets more runs the fueling and timing tables should get more accurate making it easier when I do switch to a speed density tune up. The controller is a GM E37. I could not find the pin for this power anywhere. Luckily the fuse box (which came with the GM controller and wiring harness that I bought) had a fuse labeled "ECM KEEP ALIVE" (fuse #10). So the plan was to disconnect the wire from this fuse and run a circuit directly to the battery.
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There is not much room in a belly tank lakester but I was able to disassemble the fuse box and verified the ECM Keep Alive wire (the small red) one.
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I added an inline fuse holder to protect this circuit that was connected to the battery. I like to keep things labeled even if it is very basic. The current draw is in microamps. I could not even read the current on a digital multimeter that reads in milliamps. I used a 5A fuse.
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I added a switch accessible outside the body to turn the ECM keep alive power off if needed.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOWquP1k6Oc
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOWquP1k6Oc
I am thankful that didn't happen when I cut the red wire!
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I am making final preparations for the trip to the dyno for a tune up. The tuner asked for a second O2 bung in the exhaust. With multiple bends in the exhaust where it exits the body they cannot get the normal probe in sufficiently far to assure accurate readings. They will install a wide band sensor in the additional bung to assist with tuning. I machined a screw in plug to seal this bung up when not being used. I removed the header wrap (it is secured in place with hose clamps) to weld the new bung in place then reinstalled it. I should have worn gloves, the used wrap is certainly some messy stuff. I am debating on installing a wide band sensor and controller that could be connected to the data logger for real time information.
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The lakester was back on the dyno today for a tuneup to go along with the blower pulley change. In the original dyno session the car made 480 rear wheel horsepower. The final pass before shredding a blower belt was 601. 8 (corrected) rear wheel horsepower. The blower idler that I purchased has a crown and no side flanges which I believed did not work well so close to the blower pulley. I plan to machine a new idler pulley with a flat running surface and side flanges.
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The dyno and operator are located in Cincinnati Ohio. The tuner was doing his job remotely from San Antonio Texas. The marvels of modern IT.
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I started the new blower idler pulley with a 1-3/4" long piece of 3-1/2" diameter 6061 aluminum. I buy short pieces of metal from speedymetals.com. They are always reasonably priced, have straight cuts and ship the same day of the order. I drilled a 1/2" hole in the center of the bar so that it could be attached to a mandrel in the lathe.
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The aluminum rod is then bolted to the mandrel in the lathe so that the outside diameter can be machined.
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The new design has a flat running surface for the belt and flanges. I duplicated the flange geometry that the OEM pulleys have.
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I bored soft jaws for the lathe to hold the pulley accurately from both sides to machine the counterbores for the bearings. I machined the bearing bores for a "wring" fit since I used Loctite 608 to hold the bearings in place. I shouldn't have but I did machine a dozen old school 3/8" holes in the new pulley to reduce the weight of the pulley. I don't expect the pulley to skid on the belt during acceleration, the weight savings will probably not overcome the pumping losses from air moving through the holes but they just look cool. The new pulley was .224" wider than the original pulley so I had to machine spacers to go between the arm and the doubler plates.
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It was recommended that I use a Gates "green stripe" belt. These are in their "FleetRunner" series and supposed to be a heavy duty version of their Micro-V belts.
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I installed the new idler assembly with a new belt. The alignment was off slightly which required a few tweaks. After tweaking and measuring as best as possible in the tight space of the lakester I started the engine and let it run for a period of time. I rapped on the throttle a few times and did not see any dynamic changes. In the attached photo you can see that belt is running in the center of the new idler with a little daylight showing between the belt and the flanges on both sides. I plan to make a few passes at the local drag strip to insure that there are no problems with the blower drive.
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I welded an additional oxygen sensor bung in the exhaust for the dyno tuning session. I had a wide band O2 sensor and control not doing anything on blown, electronic fuel injected Triumph motorcycle and decided that it would be more useful on the lakester. So the 10 minute job turned into a couple of hours as I needed to add a relay and fused circuit to properly power the Innovate LC-1 controller. I installed the system and then connected it to one of the AEM data logger analog inputs. It was easy to configure this channel to log on the system. So it is now off to the drag strip to get some useful data on the tune up.
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We took the car to Kilkare dragstrip for another test & tune session. The blower belt did not slip or shred which was good. The new blower belt idler pulley worked well. The O2 data showed that engine was running slightly rich (the plan is for a safe tune up so as to not melt any pistons). The tune up was supposed to include raising the rpm rev limiter from 6,200 rpm to 6,500 rpm. With the new shift light working well and expecting to be able to run to 6,400 rpm the rev limiter kicked in at 6,208 rpm shutting the engine down like turning the key off. That is a horrible feeling as it unloads the chassis until the clutch is pushed in then the big hit when you let the clutch out in the next gear. So we will be back to the tuner to get that fixed.
The staff at Kilkare continue to be gracious. They treat our vehicle as a permanently numbered (NHRA) race car staging us with the pro type dragsters and allow us to make single runs.
I plan to make another trip to Kilkare to check out the rev limiter setting after it gets set correctly. I am thankful for these test & tune sessions as they allow the bugs to be worked out before driving 8 hours to find out there are issues.
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I was able to get back to the tuner regarding the rev limiter setting. The setting was inadvertently not changed. The rev limiter is now set for 6,600 rpm so I will make a trip back to the drag strip to insure that it works as expected. I included a gratuitous photo of the car going down the drag strip at speed. We routinely forget to take photos at the track with trying to figure things being the priority so I took a friend that is a photographer with us. Photo credit goes to Mark Lopez.
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Mike, you might want to talk to your tuner about what types of rev-limiting are available.... if you get there on the salt you do not want the motor to quit and unload...
Killing spark and or fuel to a couple of cylinders at a time would let you know you are there
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You might try a Crane HI-6 ignition box. It has built-in switches that adjust the rev limit in small steps and does it by dropping random cylinders- a "soft" rev limit.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Stainless1 and Neil,
I have used MSD6AL ignition control boxes over the years with great success. They have a soft rev limit system and do a great job. The LSA engine and electronic control has coil near plug distributorless ignition. I don't know that there are aftermarket ignition controls that are compatible with the GM E67 controller. I took the car back to the tuner and he had simply forgot to increase the rpm setting. He chose to raise the rpm limit from 6,200 rpm to 6,600 rpm. In his experience the factory valve springs start to allow valve float at 6,700 rpm. Many aftermarket controllers allow soft rev limits by retarding timing and fuel before turning off cylinders or shutting the engine down, this controller does not. I plan to set the shift light at 6,000 rpm and the 6,600 limit will allow me cushion to shift before the controller shuts the engine down. Setting the shift light at 5,500 rpm leaves a lot of horsepower as the torque of this supercharged engine continues to climb well past 6,000 rpm.
I don't see this car on the salt as the aero is poor and modern lakesters are running almost twice the speed of this car. For now the mile and mile and half events are where we will be concentrating our efforts.
Thanks for the comments.
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Ya – but you can run 5 miles!
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That's a good display of data logging usefulness.
If the shifts weren't so lazy, ETs would be in the tens! :roll:
I don't understand why a timing belt blower drive of the same ratio wouldn't fit? Problem with minimum bend radius of toothed belt?
Jack said that I could be in the tens if the shifts were not so lazy. Well I did make a run in 10's at 134 mph. The additional horsepower from the increased boost and tune up with 104 octane gasoline made a big difference in the performance at the drag strip. The new blower belt idler pulley is working well, the belt has not shredded. Still running the 2.48:1 rear gears, rolling off the starting line with lazy shifts. I hope to make it to 200 mph in the mile at Blytheville in June.
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We ran at the ECTA event in Blytheville. I managed to increase the speed from 183mph to 192mph. Still looking for that 200mph pass. The increased horsepower was noticeable. The car has to be driven as it will spin the tires in the first three gears. The next changes will need to be aero.
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I have attached the log from the 192mph pass. You can see the throttle position on the white trace of the bottom graph. I was definitely pedaling the car in the lower gears. At the 23 second mark you can see on the yellow trace the rpm has a short spike. That was from tire spin while in third gear. The purple trace on the middle graph is MAP which reflects intake pressure. Subtracting 14.7 gets the actual boost. Boost was consistent. The purple trace on the top graph is the fuel mixture from a wide band oxygen sensor in the exhaust. The output from the Innovate LC2 controller is connected to the AEM data logger. This reads in lambda. A reading of 1 is stoichiometric for gas. Readings below this are rich and above are lean. The tune up is definitely on the rich side. There may be some additional performance available by leaning the mixture down. It is definitely a "safe" tune up. The entire run takes about 26 seconds.
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Don Gilmore (Iron Dinosaur) had Jim Dohms of dohmscreativephotography.com taking photos at the event. I can't say enough good things about Jim's photographic abilities. I have attached a photo of the chute deployed on the 192 mph pass. The photo was taken a great distance from the car through a very long lens and it came out great.
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Good going!
I thought I had looked at the Blytheville results and hadn't seen any lakesters- don't know how I missed yours.
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Mike was not alone: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3eifbs78vsaruv5/AADgat6VYCbSzqHWubHewACPa?dl=0
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I am thankful that my wife helps crew this effort. With that being said and having twice the horsepower I don't seem to be able to pass her in the truck with the lakester down the return road.....she must be the better driver. The planes in the background are in various states of disassembly.
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I included a photo of the chute just coming out near the finish line. I can't say enough good things about Jim Dohm's photography skills.
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Great pic just as the laundry is coming out! I like the info from your AEM data acquisition device. Duke and I are just getting ours installed, hope we can get the same kind of info.
What aero twiks are you thinking about?
Rex
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Rex,
I have already scheduled time with a fabricator to reduce the height and width of my cage. When I built the original cage I used pre-bent tubes and was very concerned about vibration affecting my vision if my helmet contacted the cage. So there was much more room than necessary. The car runs very smooth possibly due to suspension on both ends of the car. The cage is about 3"-4" taller than it needs to be and about 2"-3" wider than it needs to be so we will reduce the area hanging out in the air stream. I am also going to change to the speed density tune-up which will eliminate the MAF sensor and intake system designed to reduce turbulence at the sensor. This will eliminate an air filter and intake tubing hanging out in the air stream. I will then make some fairings to improve the aerodynamics of the suspension links that are also in the air stream. The windscreen could also use some improvement. The car started out very basic, my initial goal was to get down the track safely and reliably, slow down well and am only now working on going faster.
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Rex,
I have already scheduled time with a fabricator to reduce the height and width of my cage. When I built the original cage I used pre-bent tubes and was very concerned about vibration affecting my vision if my helmet contacted the cage. So there was much more room than necessary. The car runs very smooth possibly due to suspension on both ends of the car. The cage is about 3"-4" taller than it needs to be and about 2"-3" wider than it needs to be so we will reduce the area hanging out in the air stream. I am also going to change to the speed density tune-up which will eliminate the MAF sensor and intake system designed to reduce turbulence at the sensor. This will eliminate an air filter and intake tubing hanging out in the air stream. I will then make some fairings to improve the aerodynamics of the suspension links that are also in the air stream. The windscreen could also use some improvement. The car started out very basic, my initial goal was to get down the track safely and reliably, slow down well and am only now working on going faster.
The oil rig {roll cage} is in need of a redesign. On my car the first cage my son and I built was also to high we had a good time getting things slowly up to speed while running at Maxton for the first few years. By the time we hit Wilmington the car was changed a lot from its early appearance and lots faster. Going to narrower front tires and loosing those front brakes will help a bunch also but your running ECTA so the brake part wont pass unfortunately. This is the fun part of building a special construction car theres always going to be things to change for improved performance.
Ronnieroadster
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Mike Wagner at Cornfield Customs (catchy name) has the car to fabricate a new more aerodynamic cage. The first step is removal of the old cage.
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The work has started on the new cage. Mike bent up a new front hoop for the cage and tack welded it in place so that I could evaluate entry and exit for bail out. With my fire suit on I could not get out of the cockpit without a lot of twisting. Mike bent up a second hoop which is about 4" lower and 2" narrower than the original front hoop. It could not be any smaller and still be safe to bail out of. Mike will fabricate the balance of the cage and tack it together so that I can double check the fit before finish welding it.
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SO, does the front hoop extend beyond your helmet front in strap in position by any amount and 2" clearance max on each side of helmet including SFI padding , Newer helmets are wider than earlier ones .. STEVE
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SO, does the front hoop extend beyond your helmet front in strap in position by any amount and 2" clearance max on each side of helmet including SFI padding , Newer helmets are wider than earlier ones .. STEVE
Steve,
I have Snell SA2015 helmet. This cage is replacing the original cage on the car that was much taller and wider than it needed to be. The original cage was designed to comply with the rules and the new one will also. The front hoop is about 3-1/2" forward of my helmet, the rules state a minimum of 3". The cage will be fabricated to insure 2" or less of clearance to the sides of the helmet. This photo is of the new front hoop tack welded in place to test for ease of entry and exit. Easy and safe bail out is very important to me. We wanted to get the front hoop right before any other work was done on the cage. I always have my SFI-20 fire suit on when testing for bail out as it is very thick.
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The car is back from the fabricator. I included a before and after photo of the cage. The plans are to enclose the cage with a possible fairing on the backside.
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I have started on a fairing for the new roll cage. The current plans are to also enclose the top and sides of the roll cage. Tomorrow it is back to the dyno for a speed density tune up. This will include elimination of the MAF sensor which has required an air filter to smooth out the air flow in the intake system for proper operation. With the MAF sensor gone I will eliminate the air filter and intake plumbing hanging out in the air. I hope to pick up some additional horsepower.
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Mike, unless you put a windshield on it you are building an airbrake... especially if you do the top and sides.
Just my opinion, not necessarily that of the aero guys.... consult one :cheers:
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It is hard to see in this photo but there is a windshield. The windshield is made entirely from Lexan (polycarbonate). I had to add the windshield early on as there was so much lift on my helmet it was hard to see down the track.
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I have started working again on the cockpit fairing. I was a little apprehensive about what to do with the edge of the fairing on the front of the cage. I have a Kirkey seat and really liked the aluminum extrusion that they use on the edge of the seats. I sent an E-Mail to Kirkey regarding purchasing some of this extrusion and was surprised with quick response that they do sell it. I purchase a couple of four foot lengths of this material and look forward to having a nice round edge on the fairing. The extrusion is soft and can be easily bent around the opening and also welds well. This was the solution that I was looking for. I am thankful that they sell this extrusion.
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I have started on a new air intake the engine. Since the tune up was changed from MAF to speed density I no longer need the air filter to satisfy the MAF sensor. I started out with a "baloney" cut on a piece of 4" tube. I decided to machine a piece of 4-5/8" diameter plastic so that I could at least get a radius on the outside.
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are you planning on putting a scoop on the air intake?
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I am initially going to run without a scoop. I have two different scoops. We will evaluate all three options. At this point with the current horsepower and weight the car spins the tires (sometimes hard) in the first three gears. I am trying aero only improvements on my quest for 200 mph in the standing mile.
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You must be making a lot of power. Our car only made under 350hp with our old motor and never broke traction on the salt, it ran a best of 215.
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You must be making a lot of power. Our car only made under 350hp with our old motor and never broke traction on the salt, it ran a best of 215.
Good Dr. Googles,
I think the difference is the condition of your salt, as I have been told it is like glass.
Bonneville is like washboard except for maybe a little over a mile where it is smooth.
Big difference when trying to get traction. :naughty :naughty :naughty
Just my thoughts,
Tom G.
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I am currently only racing mile events on unprepared concrete runway surfaces (ECTA Blytheville Arkansas and LTA in Loring Maine). The last fourth pull gear on the dyno recorded 601.8 corrected rear wheel horsepower. On my last run at 192.6 mph the data logger showed a significant loss of traction in third gear at over 4,000 rpm which was about 110 mph. I had to back off the throttle and let car re-establish traction before that I could get back on the throttle. A lot more traction than on the salt but a much shorter distance to get up to top speed. I am enjoying the experience and the data. I am content to incrementally "sneak" up on the 200 mph goal.
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Some time has past but I am back working on the lakester. We are planning on going to Blytheville in April. The speed density tune up is complete on the engine, the cage has modified for a lower profile and I am going to try a 2.2:1 final gear ratio verses the 2.48:1. Still looking for 200mph in the standing mile. I followed the Bloodhound project on Facebook. To detect fire in the engine compartment I believe that they use linear heat sensor cable. They had some false alarms due to the cable being pinched which caused them some head aches and subsequent removal of the engine to determine the problem. I have always had a concern about a fire in the engine compartment of the lakester as the engine compartment cover is not easily accessible being bolted on. I do have some experience in fire detection systems so I decided to build my own fire detection system for the lakester. My brother is in the fire detection business and supplied me with some linear heat sensor cable. The cable can be ran through the engine compartment. This particular cable will send an alarm after the temperature raises to 220 degrees F for a period of time. A photo is attached of the cable.
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I designed and built a small circuit for the linear heat detection system. There is a green LED to signal that everything is working. If the cable becomes disconnected a yellow trouble LED illuminates. A photo of the prototype board is attached.
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If a fire is detected the red LED illuminates. I used a heat gun to test the system on the bench. My plans are to make this into a very compact system that just requires 12-16Vdc a terminal barrier to attach the cable and LEDs on the end. It will add some peace of mind to know that there is a fire detection system in the engine compartment.
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Mike, do you have any data on your linear heat sensor?
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That is impressive that you can figure out how to make something like that. Are you an electrical engineer?
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That is impressive that you can figure out how to make something like that. Are you an electrical engineer?
Or maybe stayed in a Holiday Inn recently :naughty :cheers:
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That is impressive that you can figure out how to make something like that. Are you an electrical engineer?
I am not an electrical engineer but have been designing equipment including electronic circuits for almost my entire life. No college education, just four years in the Marine Corps.
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Mike, do you have any data on your linear heat sensor?
Please find attached information on the linear heat detector cable.
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I'm guessing you chose the 356 degree wire for the car.
Cool idea.... :clap
Always good to hear that people continue to use their military training... Lots of us out there that learned how to do stuff without going to college... :?
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Thanks for the info, Mike. That is interesting stuff but I wonder why Kidde doesn't specify the min/max specs for its "open" and "shorted" resistance?
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Thanks for the info, Mike. That is interesting stuff but I wonder why Kidde doesn't specify the min/max specs for its "open" and "shorted" resistance?
Neil,
The open resistance is almost infinite, my meter goes to 15 meg-ohm and it registered open. In the shorted condition it is very shorted, like ohms. Most fire alarm applications use 4 kili-ohm to 50 kili-ohm end of line resistors for supervision. Loop current is limited to a few milliamps so that the fire detection system can't actually start a fire. The conductors are tinned but "wetting current" is still a consideration along with the maximum current the shorted cable would be able to handle. That is why I prefer to use an opamp circuit like most fire alarm panels to detect the change in state of the cable. It was just easier to build a little circuit rather than try to fit a fire alarm panel inside a belly tank that has no extra space.
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That makes sense, Mike. I wonder why Kidde did not include that spec in their data sheet.
I applaud your use of op amps in your circuit! 1drink (I used to work for Burr-Brown & then Texas Instruments when they bought BB). Let me know if you need any design help with op amp or instrumentation amplifier circuits.
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... If the cable becomes disconnected a yellow trouble LED illuminates...
So- you monitor the far end and recognize an open circuit?
What constitutes "everything" to illuminate the green lamp?
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... If the cable becomes disconnected a yellow trouble LED illuminates...
So- you monitor the far end and recognize an open circuit?
What constitutes "everything" to illuminate the green lamp?
The green LED indicates that the circuit is powered up with no "trouble" on the detection circuit.
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Jack;
The 50k resistor is across the end of the twisted pair so that the circuit knows that the wire isn't broken, which would read as an open circuit.
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Thanks Neil.
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Genius idea.
For the electronically challenged could this be achieved with a relay (NO/NC dual pole)?
The funky wire wanders around the engine bay, connected at one end to power / earth and with a fuse in the circuit and connected to the control pins of a dual pole relay. With power on the relay is powering the green light.
Fire causes the funky wire insulation to melt causing a short circuit, the fuse blows meaning the relay switches and the red light comes on - would this work?
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Genius idea.
For the electronically challenged could this be achieved with a relay (NO/NC dual pole)?
The funky wire wanders around the engine bay, connected at one end to power / earth and with a fuse in the circuit and connected to the control pins of a dual pole relay. With power on the relay is powering the green light.
Fire causes the funky wire insulation to melt causing a short circuit, the fuse blows meaning the relay switches and the red light comes on - would this work?
That would work but I don't like it. How about I build you a fire alarm circuit and send you one?
Mike Brown
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Mike, thats very kind but I am in the UK - could you do a circuit diag with parts identified and I could have a play myself?
John
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Mike,
Remember John is in Engand which mean he will probably have to use Lucas parts so even if your device is a "perfect" design it won't work! If course it might If you poured warm beer over it.
Rex
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The printed wiring board would be very small, are you sure it couldn't be sent in the mail? I would hate for you to have to pour warm beer on the thing each time you raced.
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Rex
If working from plans in the UK then the type of smoke needed to energize the circuit would have to be specified as Lucas used a variety of smoke types in its products; I have personally noted dense / white, brown / acrid, and hot / wispy although the source of the former can be confusing.
I had a Mk1 Jag that preformed an interesting trick; all following vehicles disappeared in a very thick very white cloud and it took a while to diagnose that a brake booster seal was leaking and on the over run it inhaled brake fluid via the vac line to the inlet manifold and poof.
Mike
If you wouldn't mind making another circuit board I can provide a NJ address and get it from Andy at some future stage - we work for the same company and occasionally he does a parts mule run for me aka a business trip to the UK.
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It is no problem to send electronics by mail to the UK and back. Yearly I send some ignition control boxes to Dorset to be reprogrammed with different spark advance curves. There have never been any issues.
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Thanks to everyone for the help. I will get a board together in the next month or so and then we can determine how to get it to the UK.
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It is no problem to send electronics by mail to the UK and back. Yearly I send some ignition control boxes to Dorset to be reprogrammed with different spark advance curves. There have never been any issues.
I have a linear heat detector board completed for John. Please PM me with a ship to and I will send it out.
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I added a pair of fire extinguisher accesses to the belly tank. I used a hole saw to cut the access through the fiberglass. An aluminum plate was riveted on that piece that came out to cover the hole saw kerf. I machined a brass flush rivet for the 1/4" hole made by the pilot bit of the hole saw. One of the joys of having a CNC lathe in the shop. I found stainless steel spring loaded hinges on Amazon, $8 for four hinges. They worked out well. The doors simply push in for fire extinguisher or fire hose access. You hope to never need them but it is better to be prepared.
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Good idea, Mike.
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Sweet Mike! Flames or fire extinguisher decal on or near the doors?
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Sweet Mike! Flames or fire extinguisher decal on or near the doors?
Always (mostly) great advice on the forum, I do appreciate the comments. Woody, my wife owns a Cricket label maker and as soon as I can persuade her we will get some labels made for the fire doors.
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Mike,
Regretfully Duke and I have actually used our emergency access opening at Speed Week last year. Literally if we had not had one we could have lost our car. Due to the rapid response of the SCTA guys and the fact that they had access to our engine compartment via the emergency access door they could get extinguishers on the fire immediately. It would have been much worse if they would have had to remove the engine cover (20 Dzus's). For us it was a very timely and great new rule.
Great job on the installation be sure that the extinguisher operator can see well into the engine compartment with the extinguisher nozzle through the hole.
Rex
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I always put a small aerosol "The Fireman" extinguisher with me along with a Zuss wrench, just in case. It would have taken a good bit of time to get the fasteners out but I did this just in case I could beat the safety team by even a little bit, as fires spread so rapidly. The range of your fire system nozzles seem somewhat limited and if they are empty by the time you have gotten stopped this may prevent further damage.
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I like to use Velcro wire ties to secure cables and hoses in the car. It is so much easier to service than cutting and replacing wire ties. I am preparing to install the linear fire detection system and was looking for Velcro wire ties when I found this. Velcro one-wrap roll of cut to length bundling strap in a fire retardant version. One less thing to burn, I like it.
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:cheers: :cheers:
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Mike
Don't use to many or you will protect the fire sensing wire from the heat :laugh:
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The linear heat detection cable is normally open and shorts when its temperature rating is exceeded. To insure that the cable is connected for service an end of line resistor is added to the end of the cable opposite the detection system. It is important to use a good crimping tool as the linear heat detector conductor is steel that has been tinned. Without a good crimp the connection can become loose triggering a trouble indication.
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I ran my linear heat detection cable down a chassis stiffener that is in the top and center of the engine compartment. The cable was long enough to go the entire length of the engine compartment. I used Velcro wire ties to secure the cable to the tubing of the stiffener.
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I am amazed how small the world is and how well the post works. 6 days across the pond to the UK and even less time I received this great shirt!
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That tee shirt will become a collectors item one day :laugh:
I cant get loo paper in the local shops but I can get car parts from the USA - crazy crazy world.
Big shout out here to Mike too for helping me out with a fire detection system. Hope he uses the tee more than I see a red led on his system in my car :cheers:
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I purchased the LSA engine complete with ECU and wiring harness. With the harness came an intercooler pump. The intercooler pump was controlled by the ECU and I had no way to turn it on without tuning software. My tuner suggested that I manually turn the pump on before making a run. The thought was that by the time the manifold temperature was up from boost and the ECU turned it on the heat was already there and the run was almost over. The pump had three wires and 5 terminals so a little research was in order to change the function over to manual operation. It turns out that on the Cadillac version of the LSA they use a pump that was originally designed for the Chevy Volt, an electric car. It pumped coolant to keep the batteries from overheating. It is a very sophisticated brushless DC pump with an enable, PWM input for variable speed and pulse output so its functionality could be monitored by the controller. Some sites described how to add a toggle switch to turn on battery voltage to the enable and +12V pins. I was skeptical as other logic connections on the engine were +5Vdc. Sure enough testing with a meter showed the enable to be 5Vdc. I thought that if it was on the internet it had to be true! I let the ECU enable the pump and switched the +12V on with a relay and an inline fuse holder. The OEM fuse was 20A on a 22Ga wire which offered poor protection in the event of a short. I connected the relay to the switch in the cockpit that controls the engine cooling pump. Now when I make a run and turn on the engine cooling pump the intercooler pump also comes on. If the engine is not running the intercooler pump is not enabled and just the engine cooling pump runs. The pump is very sophisticated and will shut down on its own if it detects cavitation. This seems to be problem with the CTS-V if the intercooler system is not bled free of air. My pump is lower than the tank and I did not observe any problems with cavitation or the pump shutting down on its own. I guess that I just got lucky on that one. The pump seems very efficient pumping a lot of water and only draws 5A at full load with a soft start.
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Mike,
Try putting a ball valve on the pump outlet and a 0-20 psi gage then start to close the ball valve and see what happens. The pressure goes up the flow goes down and the motor amps also go up right until the pump pretty much stops flowing water at which point the amp draw will probably go down as the pump is doing no work. Centrifugal pumps have a "sweet" spot where they are the most efficient and that spot is pretty much controlled by back pressure ( and pump speed if it has a variable speed controller) and in your case the back pressure is the flow resistance of your inter cooler. Just another reason that selecting a electrically driven centrifugal pump can only be done if flow vs pressure curves are known.
Rex
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I added a fourth oxygen sensor bung to the exhaust. Two are for the sensors that connect to the ECU, one is for a wideband oxygen sensor that is connected to my data logger. The fourth is for my tuners wideband when we the car is on the dyno. This will save disconnecting and removing my wideband sensor when the car is on the dyno.
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I most likely will not get to Australia to race on their dry lake bed but at least I can proudly show their sticker on my car. Since the event was cancelled this year due to the pandemic they are selling their tech inspection stickers for $5 each. I bought some just for a donation. They shipped in the mail, it took a few weeks but they made it.
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We had a successful weekend with the ECTA in Blytheville Arkansas. We made four passes, all of them 200+ mph in the standing mile. The best run was 201.342 mph which got me into the 200 mph club.
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:cheers: :clap :cheers: :clap :cheers: :clap
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We towed the car to Blytheville with our RV. I was thankful to have the RV as the daytime temperatures were really hot. Having a generator and air conditioning was a big benefit. We boondocked at the airport. My wife towed the car to the starting line and back to the pits with no problems using the RV.
Modify message
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There were MD88 jet planes parked everywhere. I was told that Delta was not going to return them to service. Most will be scrapped. Those that are not scrapped will be brokered to other airlines.
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I have an in car video if someone could chime in on how to post it or a link to it. The first pass off the trailer was with no ice in the intercooler was over 200 mph. The only engine change for the season was from a MAF tuneup to speed density with allowed me to get rid of the air filter hanging out the side of the car. At the most this resulted in 20 additional horsepower. We did not make a fourth gear pull on the dyno after the tune up to get an actual maximum horsepower number. I also added a fairing behind the new smaller cage. I was going to try a run with the fairing to see if it helped or hurt the speed but it reduced the buffeting on my helmet so much I decided to leave it on. I did reduce the shift point from 6,400 rpm to 5,800 rpm which was closer to maximum torque verse maximum horsepower. The car pulled well in third and fourth gears, I am still pedaling the car in first and second to keep from spinning the tires too hard.
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Here ya go. How to Upload a Video to YouTube NEWEST VERSION https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O7iUiftbKU
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Good job, Mike. A lot of thinking and effort has paid off.
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The in car video is on Facebook. This link should get you to it. https://www.facebook.com/michael.e.brown.754/videos/10214471327655878/
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Gotta join to see it I guess.
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Gotta join to see it I guess.
Stan, I don't do Facebook either. But they will usually let you look at stuff for a few minutes, unless you go there all the time. I saw the video above and when it says to register in small letters it says not now. I click that and am good for a minute or two. But I only go there when there is a link like above. Hope that helps you.
Tom G.
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Click on the link then "not now" to see the video if you don't have a Facebook account.
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Thanx, guys!
From a (retired) driver's standpoint, I found a couple of things distracting ? just from my experience at El Mirage and Bonneville.
One ? the patchwork of black rubber stripes. I can't remember driving over those ? Kinda distracted me.
And, two ? Turning out to the right. I immediately thought "what's wrong?". Only ever running No. 1 and El Mirage, I can't remember turning out right. Of course, I can't remember much of anything any more.
I do remember being given options several times ? right? left? right? left? etc.
Thanx for posting the video and congratulations on a 200+ run.
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The in car video is on Facebook. This link should get you to it. https://www.facebook.com/michael.e.brown.754/videos/10214471327655878/
Sorry I 'm not a joiner :-(
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I'm not either ? for sure!
But I said "Not Now" and got to see it.
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... the patchwork of black rubber stripes...
Reminds me of rumble strips on approaches to toll gates.
Nice video!
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I'm not either ? for sure!
But I said "Not Now" and got to see it.
When it comes to either Facebook or Instagram I say Not Ever!. Mark Zuckerberg makes big bucks off of the content that digital-sharecroppers aka members give him for FREE. Why doesn't he do profit-sharing :laugh:
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Stan... the runways are mostly used by airplanes that leave rubber skid marks every landing.... and they are center striped... so think of it as street racing back in the day.... this weeks racing starts before last weeks.... so you run past someone else's wheelspin marks.... Of course it could be because old people are easily distracted....
now where did I leave my beer..... :cheers:
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After adding an engine coolant catch tank I had a 3/8" NPT bung in the top of my intercooler tank. I take temperatures after each run with a non-contact infared thermometer of the tank but cannot get the temperature of the actual water. I thought that it would be nice to see the water temperature directly. I ordered a pair of thermometers with a stainless steel probe. I machined a brass fitting with 3/8" pipe threads on one end and for a 1/8" compression fitting on the other. A custom plastic ferrule was machined to fit the shank of the thermometer. I could then screw the adapter into the tank and secure the thermometer with the compression fitting. It looks good we will see how well it works the next time out.
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A photo of the completed installation.
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We went to the fall event at Loring. The weather was great, low temperatures and low humidity. The car was making good power. We managed to take the mile record back from Das Bullet at 208.913. I didn't get the 1-1/2 mile record back but had a good run at 221.440. There was a quartering cross wind that made driving challenging.
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Setting a record over 200 MPH got me into the LTA 200 Club.
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We continue to chase the lakester with the RV. Somewhat unorthodox but my wife and I make it work. We doubled up the tow strap and communicate with cell phones going to the starting line and back to the pits.
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I didn't evaluate with and without the fairing behind the cage. There is so much less buffeting in the cockpit with it installed that didn't want to try it without it. The plans are to continue to fair in the rest of the cockpit this winter. I will not enclose the front until I evaluate how the cockpit fairing performs.
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I did get an in car video, it can be seen here, https://www.facebook.com/michael.e.brown.754/videos/10214875692564748/. The bump at the transition from concrete to asphalt is still there at the 3/4 mile mark. On the first run I was not able to hold the "smooth" line over the bump. It is a big bump registering 1.1g on my data logger. I believe that it hurt the right front tire. On the return road after the third pass I noticed that the tire is no longer round. I will be replacing the front tires and possible the back also for next year.
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Good ol' Facebook will not let me see your video.
A tow bar is so much easier ? and a lot safer. Once you try it, you'll never go back.
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I loaded the video to Youtube. You should be able to find it using the title, "In car video, 200+ mph run at the Fall LTA Event".
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQWjMX0HuTQ
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A very interesting video. I had no idea the the runway had so many cracks.
Your tank accelerates very hard 8-) I'm impressed :clap
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A photo of the front tire that is no longer round. The M&H DOT drag radial tires that I was running are not suitable for 200+ mph runs at mile events. I noticed this problem while my wife was towing me back to the pits. No more runs after seeing this. My plans are to run the Texas Mile in the Spring. They only allow "Y" rated DOT tires and road race tires. The skinniest "Y" rated tire that I can get that is tall enough (29") for my car is 205mm wide compared to the 185mm tires that I am currently running. Unfortunately these tires also require 17" rims. I found 17" steel rims with a 5 on 5-1/2" bolt pattern however they have deep back spacing and the spindle hole is slightly too small. I will need to bore the spindle hole, build a new inner wheel fairing, buy new Moon disks and weld Dzus fasteners on the rims. The scrub radius will be improved with the deeper back spacing but my steering arms will also need to be modified. A lot of work to be able to run in Texas and suffer an aero penalty with wider tires.
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A photo of the M&H DOT drag radial rear tires after seven 200+ mph runs. There are scallops on both sides of both rear tires. I will not run these tires again including 1/4 mile test & tune sessions. I have chose a new Hoosier circuit racing radial for the rear. I will pick up an additional 1/2" of rear tire width on a slick. I hope that the traction is the same or better than the drag radials as I currently have to pedal the car in first and second gear. Kevin Mixon the Texas Mile tech director gave me approval for these tires in an E-Mail. No modifications to run these tires thank goodness.
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A photo of the car at over 200mph. Notice the sidewall deflection of the front tire. I have 17IN steel rims with the correct mounting pattern. The backset needs to be modified and I am working on that.
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Many years ago I saw this problem on a bike. It was due to the spring harmonic frequency being the same or an even multiple of the tire rotating frequency. The problem was solved by changing the spring rate and making sure the shocks did a good job of damping.
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I was able to purchase 17" steel rims with the five on 4-1/2" bolt pattern however the backspacing was 5-3/4" for a modern type car. James at Weldcraft Wheels was able to cut the original welds out on a lathe, flip the center and weld in place for the 3-1/4" backspace that I needed for my car. They completed the work in two weeks at a reasonable cost. The work was very good. They widen, narrow, rework and repair wheels of all kinds. A very good company to work with.
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They fully welded the center in place and enlarged the pilot diameter for the hub. I added the Dzus tabs for the MOON discs. All that is needed now is 5/8" holes for the metal valve stems and a pair of 205/55ZR17 tires with a "Y" rating. The tires will be almost an inch wider than the M&H front runners but this was the narrowest tire that I could find that is almost 26" tall for my car. Tech at the Texas Mile requires "Y" rated DOT tires to compete.
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They fully welded the center in place and enlarged the pilot diameter for the hub. I added the Dzus tabs for the MOON discs. All that is needed now is 5/8" holes for the metal valve stems and a pair of 205/55ZR17 tires with a "Y" rating. The tires will be almost an inch wider than the M&H front runners but this was the narrowest tire that I could find that is almost 26" tall for my car. Tech at the Texas Mile requires "Y" rated DOT tires to compete.
Race tires are illegal?
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They will only allow radial tires. No bias belted tires and no drag race tires, radial or DOT rated. Tech approved a Hoosier radial slick for the rear that was classed as circuit racing. The narrowest tire that was tall enough and approved was the Michelin 205/55ZR27 for the front.
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Thanks, Mike. Now I understand.
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I really liked having the thermometer on the intercooler tank. It allowed me to see the temperature at quick glance. I was concerned about installing a thermometer using the same methodology in the engine water cooling tank. That tank is pressurized and I was concerned about the pressure forcing the thermometer out creating a water leak. If the compression fitting was installed too tight it would crush the thermometer stem causing it to not work properly. I decided to create a "well" that the stem of the thermometer would go into that could be sealed tight against the pressure. I used 3/16" brass tube with a plug soldered into one end. On the opposite end I machined a replacement for a 3/8-16 bolt that held the radiator cap to the tank. One end has 3/8-16 threads the other end a spigot (3/8-24) for an 1/8" compression fitting. I then machined a plastic compression ferrule to secure the thermometer into the fitting. I will use either a heat sink compound or a tiny bit of glycerin to conduct the heat from the brass tube to the thermometer stem.
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A photo of the thermometer installed. I can still get the radiator cap off to check the water level but by removing the compression fitting nut the thermometer is easily removed giving full access. Now I have a thermometer with much less chance of ever having a leak.
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Good thinking.
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Very little of my thoughts are original, somebody smarter has already been there done that. I found out from a friend that this methodology for mounting a thermometer, RTD or other sensor is called a "thermowell". Googled it and came up with all kinds of these devices commercially available. Mine was just custom made to replace a bolt in the lakester.
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Used thermo wells extensively back when I was in industry
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Inspection of the front wheel bearings during service revealed some marks on the bearing races. I don't believe that it reached the point of brinnelling as there was no discernable notchiness in the rotation of the hub but I will replace the races and the bearings. I suspect that this happened while the car was being trailered.
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I USE LUCAS 7.5 WT. RACING GEAR OIL IN DIFF AND FRT. AND REAR WHL. BRGS. .. THE '37 ENGLISH AUSTIN 4 SPD. CLOSE RATIO TRANS. GETS 30 WT. ENG. OIL .. STEVE
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Crocus cloth looks like emery cloth except that it has a coating of iron oxide rather than grit. It can be used to polish up those races without the fear of abrading away the hardening. The races might be stained and not damaged.
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I purchased the entire front end from Speedway Motors. They specified Ford spindles with Chevy rotors and an adapter kit. The bearings and races came in the kit. Of all the parts that I purchased for this project I was the least satisfied with those from Speedway. The bearings were all marked "China" so I chose to order Timken bearings and races made in the USA.
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Good Plan... :cheers:
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I shit canned all the Timken style tapered bearings on my LSR race cars 45 years ago even on the Ford spindles.. too much drag. Oops gave out a ?secret?
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I shit canned all the Timken style tapered bearings on my LSR race cars 45 years ago even on the Ford spindles.. too much drag. Oops gave out a ?secret?
All the "secrets" that come out on this forum is one reason that I like it so much. I don't know how much impact reducing chassis/drive train drag has on mile land speed events but I am interested. Do you run straight ball bearings or angular contact ball bearings?
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The last set of an American brand bearings I got were made in China so I returned them, too. This is a good link to non-China bearings. Instead of a tapered roller bearing in the rear hub I used a JAF double row ball bearing. It had adequate load capacity and less internal friction than a tapered roller bearing.
https://www.bearingslimited.com/catalogs/
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When I need any bearings knowing most are now off shore junk to find good old USA produced bearings I do my shopping on Ebay. There I have found many sellers listing old stock USA production bearings Timken brand and many others as an example. Anything purchased from Speedway for the most part will be china stuff that includes the spindles, hubs and brake parts as examples buyer beware.
Ronnieroadster
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For spindles I would buy used stock Ford and have them Magnafluxed
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Mike,
I am with Jimmy Six, angular contact ball bearings have a lot less drag and if you are selective there are a number of good (not chicom) bearing mfgs that you can get bearings from. Two approaches that I have seen, one is a pair of angular contact bearing mounted in a back to back configuration with both outer races constrained and then an internal spacer between the inter races that is the correct length to set the bearing preload. The other is use a double row angular contact brg which has a common inter and outer race with two rows of balls. This can make for an easier installation. Obviously you have to do some engineering and machining to make everything fit but it does reduce the rolling resistance. I also suggest removing the seal as it is a big drag contributor. I make a shield that replaces the seal that has 3-5 thou clearance around the spindle and then seal it with a light grease. I have seen cars that only run light oil for lub also I happen to use a 10,000 rpm milling spindle grease that I lightly cover the bearings with. Expensive but good.
Rex
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Just for kicks, how many horsepower does it take to spin, on a well-maintained stock set-up with no brakes, for example, a 22" diameter 3.5" tire on a 15" wheel to 200MPH?
A wild-ass guess counts . . .
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Rex, I don?t run seals either for over 40 years. I also use Special GE grease for ball bearings that I got through work; I still have some in a tube.
Jim the answer to your question is I can start a wheel/tire spinning and come in for dinner and it?s still spinning when I?m done. The other is in my class there still changing me. I?ll take speed anyway I can.
The transmission I bought for my sons circle track car has ceramic bearings....same reason...
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I did find Timken bearings that were made in the USA. There is a noticeable difference (improvement) in the surface finish of both the bearings and the races over the Chinese counterparts. The lowest cost was from Zoro.com. Zoro is owned by WW Grainger. We use them a lot at work, the same part, same part number, same warehouse shipped from but a much lower cost. When searching using the individual bearing and race part numbers turned out to be significantly higher cost. I found that by determining the correct "set" I could buy the bearing and race for the same price as the bearing. My combination turned out to be SET2 for the outer bearing and race and SET13 for the inner bearing and race.
The consensus seems to be light lube or oil with no seals to drag. I can easily machine a press in bearing shield to replace my seals.
My last scheduled day of work is December 31st as I am retiring.
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Just for kicks, how many horsepower does it take to spin, on a well-maintained stock set-up with no brakes, for example, a 22" diameter 3.5" tire on a 15" wheel to 200MPH?
Stan,
I would like to know that also. Reward vs. time, cost, etc. involved.
Tom G.
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Not applicable to wheel bearings, but some experience with Ceramic ball bearings.
In kart racing some years ago, mainly EU ICA and ICC spec motors we had availability to ceramic hybrid bearings for cranks and transmissions. In the ICC motors, we turned them 14,500 revs and there was no difference on the dyno. Now, some drivers claimed the acceleration was better, but in blind testing, no difference. The ICA motors turned 19,000 revs. Still no difference on dyno outside of normal tolerances of said testing device.
One difference I did see though was the full compliment bearings did not like rapid rpm changes, such as in shifting gears.
When subjected to that, the inner races just destroyed themselves. Never had a catastrophic disaster but you could find the evidence on the sparkplug electrode and the top of the piston when it was time to change.
At the time I worked for Saint-Gobain and we had a ceramic bearings division. When I submitted the failed bearings to tech support the only answer was "this appears to not be a good application of this technology".
Merry Christmas to you all, John
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Mike,
Congratulations on retirement!!! Now you have full time to work on your car! I retired 10 years ago and can tell you that I was so happy that I am, as most of us are, a "car guy" which means that we can be busy as much as we want working on our love and hobby. So much better than golf.
Enjoy!!!
Rex
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I retired early. Plant Manager thought 50hr every week for 30 hrs pay was just coasting to
retirement so I quit. Best thing is the phone hasn't rung at 2AM since. Came home and started building a lakester the next week.
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A few years ago I was going to install some ceramic bearings in the race bike. There was a lot of information favoring their use from folks that were making money from selling them exclusively or as a prominent product line. So, in the quest for an less biased or more honest opinion, I asked for advice some tech advisers at reputable bearing companies that sold mainly ferrous and a limited amount of non-ferrous bearings.
These are some of the things I was told. First, manufacturing precision in conventional ferrous bearings is a big deal and it helps to lower friction in typical uses more than the use of exotic materials. Second, bearings in an oil or grease bath will have a lubricant film between the bearing elements, so exotic materials do not offer big friction reduction benefits. Third, ferrous wear and failure debris can be removed by magnets such as on drain plugs. This is an advantage. Last, exotic materials may offer benefits if there is an electrical current passing through the bearing that is pitting the ferrous elements, the bearings are in a corrosive environment like brine, or they operate at very high rpm, in heat, or with no lubrication. There was other things they said that I do not remember.
A motorcycle wheel hub might be one of the better places to use them. The only lube would be a light film of grease on the ferrous parts to keep them from rusting. Lubrication friction would be minimized. This change would cost $$ so I needed some unbiased third party engineering information about friction drag in that application for both lubed ferrous and unlubed ceramic bearings. I could not find any, so I stayed with ferrous bearings.
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WW, other than ultra high speed CNC spindle bearings that do successfully use ceramic bearings, my only other experience is with bicycles. Like you, I was skeptical about benefits over ferrous bearings so I proceeded to test them. My test rig was an electric motorized bicycle crank and bottom bracket shell that I could easily swap out bearings. A watt meter and hand held speedo were employed to compare watt outputs between ferrous and ceramic bearings. Constants were crank RPM and MPH. Watts were recorded at various RPM and MPH to see if there were greater (or lesser) power efficiencies.
Short answer was yes, ceramic bearings did produce greater power efficiencies over ferrous metal. I don?t recall how much more efficient ceramic bearings were but in bicycle track competition, any advantage is welcome.
One caveat, ceramic bearing installation is more critical than ferrous. They damage easily if installed incorrectly.
John
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I'm not versed in bearings, but know that Rick Yacoucci must be. His front wheels on the car are those little aluminum discs that turn at 14k rpm at 350. As I remember he said that he used a proprietary lube supplied by the mfr. of the bearings. Sorry - don't remember the brand of the bearings.
Many years ago Van Butler gave me a grounding in wheel bearings for bikes. Cathy was running small bikes at the time and Van knew that everything needed to be best-possible, so he put in ceramic bearings and set up everything right. With the bike on a front stand he gave the front wheel a bit of a spin, and sure enough, it took dang near forever to stop.
Ramble complete for now.
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. . . the reason I asked (mainly that I didn't know the answer) was that in my experience running a mechanical-injected engine in Street Roadster classes, it seemed to my ancient mind that getting the "tune" right with changing temperatures, air density, wind, etc. made little changes result in big changes if you weren't right on top of it.
I've never tried it, but I'm only guessing, that an 1/2-HP electric motor could turn said wheel to pretty high speeds -- and we were usually only able to hit the spot once in a while.
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Mike,
Congratulations on retirement!!! Now you have full time to work on your car! I retired 10 years ago and can tell you that I was so happy that I am, as most of us are, a "car guy" which means that we can be busy as much as we want working on our love and hobby. So much better than golf.
Enjoy!!!
Rex
Rex,
Thank you for the note of encouragement. I have been at E.F. Bavis & Associates for 37 years. The last 30 as VP of manufacturing. It is just time to leave the decisions to the new guys. I added a heater to the garage so that I can work on the belly tank this winter getting ready for the mile event in Texas. The namesake of the car is itisforfreedom.com. They are a Christian school in the Dominican Republic. I support infrastructure for the school which includes their solar power system since they are off grid. So I also have multiple projects in the works. Neil here on landracing.com has provided electronic design support for a DC power monitoring system that they need. What a great group of men, surrounding yourself with the brightest group of people that you can find often leads to success.
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I received my Hoosier circuit racing slicks. They are 27-1/2" tall which is close enough to the 28" tall drag radials that I ran previously. The Texas event is scheduled for March so the local dragstrip will not be open to scruff in the tires. I plan to wash them good with Dawn and mechanically scruff them in with sandpaper.
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Mike, some CW/CCW donuts in your cul-de-sac would be lots more fun than the sandpaper! :evil:
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Mike your not going to a Nascar event. I'm willing to learn so where are you getting the guidance you need to scuff those tires for measured mile runs?
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Mike your not going to a Nascar event. I'm willing to learn so where are you getting the guidance you need to scuff those tires for measured mile runs?
Ron,
The tire preparation is my own guidance. I previously raced 1/8 scale gas (nitro methane) road race cars. During that period I did a lot of research on tires and coefficient of friction. In the 60's it was thought that a coefficient of friction greater than 1 between tires and the track could not be achieved. When dragsters went into sub 6 second runs scientist took another look. Tires can wear and leave black marks or they can leave rubber through the process of expulsion. Expulsion simplified is hot rubber adhering to both the tire and the track with subsequent shearing. You experience this at current top fuel events where there are tiny balls of tire material floating in the air during the entire run. The goal is to get the tire up to operating temperature quickly without exceeding the maximum operating temperature of the tire. In racing where sanctioning bodies allow tire preparation, siping is common. Siping is tiny slits in the surface of the tire made with razor blades. The sipes allow the tires to achieve racing temperature quicker. The Texas Mile has a notoriously short track. It is very important to me to have maximum traction both for acceleration and for stopping at this event. The hard outer layer on brand new tires form a boundary layer that resists the expulsion process. My tire preparation plan is to mechanically abrade this outer layer to promote best adhesion, no siping, no grinding away of material to lighten the tire, no grooving or liquids that soften the tires.
Note that as soon as Hoosier determines that you are racing landspeed they no longer offer any help. Hoosier has a very specific break-in procedure for these tires. As far as I can determine this is more about preserving the useful life of the tire than promoting maximum traction.
I attached a closeup photo of a rear tire that I took off the car. Note the ridges and "pits" in the surface of the tire. This is from the expulsion of tire material. It took a few passes on a prepared dragstrip to achieve this optimal tire surface as well as monitoring the tire wear, temperature and pressure at the mile events. Unfortunately I will not have the benefit of test & tune sessions to get these new tires up to optimal traction before we go to the Texas event. The Texas event has historically had a lot of entries which results in 2-3 passes per day. I would really like to have a few good runs at the event.
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I have started on a cockpit fairing. When I fabricated the fairing behind the roll cage I made two bulkheads. The second bulkhead had a 1-1/2" wide strip of `/8" thick aluminum welded to it. I attached 1/16" aluminum sheet for the cockpit fairing to this bulkhead. By having the fairing split I am able to remove the cockpit body panel and the engine cover independently. I used the aluminum edging that I bought from Kirkey so the front edge of the fairing is smooth and safe. It looks like this could be transitioned into an enclosed cockpit in the future.
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I use a tube chute by Shroud. The chute has worked perfectly without issue however on paved mile courses the deployment bags get worn out very quickly. I apply gaffers tape to edges but they still get holes and torn apart. After every event we have to repair or replace the bags. I was able to source domestically made Aramid fiber cloth in the same thickness/weight as the canvas of the original bag. A local shoe repair business also does leather and tack. She was able to sew me up a new deployment bag made from this much higher abrasion resistant material. We will see how this performs at the next event.
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My fuel tank vent goes to the outside of the car. I used a small air filter to keep dust, dirt, mud daubers and mice with corn out of the hose. (I really did have mice fill an AN-10 fuel line with corn while an engine was out) The air filter stuck out a lot and in the quest for better aero I decided to make it flush. I contemplated welding up a "cup" to attach it with but everything is so right inside the car. I looked for commercially produced fuel vents especially those used on boats. The vent is to the left of the switches.
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I found this fuel tank vent on Amazon for $13. It is made from stainless steel and has a barb fitting for 1/2" hose. The threads however are 3/4-16 which is the same as an AN-8 fitting. The original vent is an AN-8 braided stainless line. I rarely get this lucky.
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I chucked the vent up in the lathe and machined a 37 degree taper to match the AN-8 fitting on the vent hose. It fit perfectly.
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The new fuel tank vent installed.
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We haul our car on an open trailer. I like to use a cockpit cover to protect the belts from UV and rain, etcetera. The original cover was made by a local guy and secured with snaps. Since the cover was made the cage has been reduced in both height and width, a rear fairing added and most recently a fairing was added to the cage. With my wife's assistance we modified that cover to fit. The front of the cover still fit but had to be modified to attach to the cage fairing. The cover is secured to the cage fairing with Velcro.
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We made it to the Texas Mile in Beeville. The course is short, 8,000 feet so shutdown can be challenging. The tech inspector approved the car for 230+mph however they would only issue me a "C" license good for 160 mph. I made a licensing pass at 153 mph and talked the race director into a class "A" license. My next run was 201.1 mph.
With a 200+ mph time slip and $30 you can purchase a 200 club shirt. Not to complain but the ECTA and LTA provide hats and shirts just for accomplishing a 200mph record run. It was a long 1,240 mile drive for us so we took a few days before and after the event. We stayed a campground in Port Aransas which is on Padre Island. A wonderful place. The sand packs really well and they allow vehicles and overnight camping on the beach. The long flat beach road was tempting but I decided that I preferred the night in the RV verses jail.
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I made a third pass on Saturday at 203.4 mph. I believe that this was the 14th fastest pass of the day. There may have been 200 entries. On that pass I launched the chute early and was hard on the brakes. The car slowed down for a safe exit off the course but there was little margin for error. I made the 200 club and will save the car for faster passes with the ECTA (11,000 feet of runway) or LTA (14,400 feet of runway).
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Nice passes Mike... Congrats :cheers:
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With all those tire tracks on the beach -- I'da been tempted -- just for the experience.
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With all those tire tracks on the beach -- I'da been tempted -- just for the experience.
Stan,
Just to show you how much the temptation was I included a photo of the beach one evening, long wide and hardly any traffic.
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Excellent! :cheers:
Mike
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Dang sure wouldn't want to hit a course marker :? You might of had to pick a little sand out of your crack
:cheers:
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The staff at the Texas Mile had a Facebook Live feed going during parts of the day. The following link is a video of my second pass, https://www.facebook.com/1800170739/videos/10216023040567731/.
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That's the best way to get it a nice strong tail wind good work Mike. See you in July at Loring the extra half mile will be fun for sure.
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Looking at the wear pattern on the front tires I suspected that there was too much toe in. I originally aligned the chassis with strings and plumb bobs and tape measures but did not have confidence in the toe in measurements. I decided to improve on the methodology. I used 1 inch square aluminum tube machined to bolt onto the front hubs. By leveling the chassis and the tubes I felt that I could accurately measure the toe in directly on the tubes sticking out in front of the chassis. To my surprise there was about a 1/4" of toe in, way to much for any application. I corrected the toe in to 1/16". Note that by securing the tubes vertical I could also measure the camber accurately. Next up a few passes at the local drag strip for a "handling" run.
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I went to the local 1/4 mile dragstrip for a test & tune session. Normally I can make three passes in an evening. The venue was packed, there were hundreds of cars and we were only able to make a single pass. I did manage 138mph in the quarter. The car handled well. I have been adjusting the rear tire pressure down slightly on each pass. The pressure for this pass was down to 24psi and the contact patch is still about 3/4" from the edge. The Hoosier circuit racing rear tires do not hook up as well as the drag radials.
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It pays to surround yourself with the brightest people you can find. I wanted to add a fairing to the backside of the rear axle and was struggling some getting started. A good friend that is a brilliant engineer that works in 3D along with a printer took a stab at creating a fairing for me. He printed this section of a part that fits against the rear axle with slots for stainless steel hose clamps to secure it. The section is thick and much stronger than I imagined. I will provide him with a template to make a fairing for each side. This was quite motivating to say the least.
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I decided to add inner wheel disks to the rear wheels while in the process of streamlining the rear axle. I found four holes in the Wilwood disk brake mounts that could be tapped 7/16-20. I machined standoffs from brass hex material 3/4" long to put the disks in the proper location. The brass was tapped through and short setscrews secured with Loctite make the connection to the brake mounts. 7/16-20 bolts will hold the inner disks to the standoffs.
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I attached a photo of the mounts installed on the brake caliper mounting brackets.
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For serviceability I made the inner disks in two pieces. The disks will need to be removed when I bleed the brakes. I bleed the brakes before each event. The disks are now back off the car for a quick coat of paint. I will then begin working on the axle streamlining after the disks are reinstalled.
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Mike, are those hard lines copper tubing or only copper-plated tubing? Copper tubing is not good for brake lines as it is subject to fatigue cracking from the pressure cycling of the brake fluid. Copper tubing isn't good for fuel lines either as copper is catalytic and hastens fuel chemical breakdown.
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The brake lines are NiCopp which are a combination of copper and nickel. They are rated for use as brake lines and are much easier to bend.
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I've never used those brake lines before, I'll have to have a look at NiCopp. Thanks, Mike.
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I used copper/nickel alloy brake tubing on my '59 GMC (don't recall the manufacturer) but the outside isn't copper colored, it has the appearance of nickel.
Those inboard discs are something I envision for my lakester. What thickness and how much clearance to the wheel?
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Jack/Neil
Look up Kunifer tubing
Neil
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Jack/Neil
Look up Kunifer tubing
Neil
Thank you, that looks like a good choice for brake & hydraulic clutch hard lines- especially at Bonneville!
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I used copper/nickel alloy brake tubing on my '59 GMC (don't recall the manufacturer) but the outside isn't copper colored, it has the appearance of nickel.
Those inboard discs are something I envision for my lakester. What thickness and how much clearance to the wheel?
Jack, the brakes are Wilwood four piston calipers, part number 140-12552. The rotors are solid .35" thick by 11.44" diameter. Wilwood has complete dimensions on their website. On a Winters quick change rear end with big Ford axles the inside of the calipers are about even with the inside flange of the rear wheels. The rear wheels are Cragar 69 series 15x10 with 4-1/4" of backspace. I hope that this helps.
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It must be said that I do appreciate all of the comments received on this build diary. The things that all of you pick up from low resolution photos posted here always amaze me. Over the years the tips on this build have been (mostly) helpful. Be safe and go fast.
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Sorry I wasn't more clear. I was asking about the thickness of the "streamlining discs", and their closeness to the wheel rim.
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Sorry I wasn't more clear. I was asking about the thickness of the "streamlining discs", and their closeness to the wheel rim.
Sorry about that Jack. All my wheel disks are made from .080" thick 5052 aluminum. I keep approximately 3/16" clearance to the rim.
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Thanks Mike. If I can work through the more pressing issues, I hope to add "moon disks" inboard of all four wheels of my lakester.
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Jack --
What size tires are on the front?
Stan
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28 x 4.5- 15 FrontRunners all around.
The [eventual] moondiscs will be a little "messy", since it has 4-wheel disc brakes.
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With our Street Roadster years ago, I was running 25" Goodyears (don't remember the width -- 5 - 5-1/2?) and set the Bonneville record at 199. Months later I'd changed them to 22" M&Hs, 3-1/2 wide -- the only change -- and went 201. They gave me a pretty red cap.
The real bonus in the change was that, for the first time, I could actually steer the car. Before that I kinda "wished it".
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Stan, September/October always has better air... but small front tires stop less of it as well as change attitude lowering the front... less air under and room to leave...
It's always good to see someone get a hat... :cheers: :friday :cheers:
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We have a first printed part for the rear axle fairing. The part had to be printed in three parts due to the limits of the printer but splines were designed in so the individual parts could be pinned together. I hope to have the final details finished and the fairing on the axle in the next couple of days.
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Love the 3D printed fairings!
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With the axle fairing project I needed to make permanent tie down points for trailering. I currently use straps over the axles to attach the ratchet straps. Fairing in the axles complicates this as they would need to be removed to attach the straps or have large openings that would allow the straps to still be used. I decided to add some tie down points. I chose to add plates to the rod end mounts that are welded to the axle. By adding a 1/4" plate I could use the 3/4" bolts to hold the plate and have a hole for the tie down strap. I machined the plates on the mill so I decided to make the opening for the strap a "D" shape since my straps have two round rods that form the hook. I attached a photo of the plate.
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The attachment to the outside of the rod end bracket (the rod ends are attached in double shear) needs have compliance. I machined bushings that can be pulled tight and still allow the plates to rotate. My plan is to swing the plates up out of the wind and secure them with wire ties when not in use.
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I attached a photo of the plate with the strap hook inserted. The "D" shaped hole gives the hook much better bearing than a round hole would.
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Mike, we use tire tie downs on our lakester.... just the fronts at the races, all 4 for the road.
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Kinda like this except on the front tires.
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Mike- Can I assume you don't fiddle with a manual mill for shapes like that- especially D-shaped holes? :roll:
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Mike- Can I assume you don't fiddle with a manual mill for shapes like that- especially D-shaped holes? :roll:
Jack, my mill is a toolroom style milling machine. It has handles for manual operation and I then use the CNC control as a digital readout. It is a bed type mill so the head moves up and down on the Z axis. It does have a quill so I can use it like a drill press. I made the part from 1/4" bar stock. Two round holes were drilled and the part was held to a fixture plate with plugs inside the holes. I used CNC to machine the perimeter. After the perimeter was machined the parts were held in step jaws in the vise. The "D" shaped holes were created using a 1/4" diameter mill to square off the bottom while in manual milling mode. The toolpath for both CNC and manual milling was generated in AutoCAD. I make a lot of parts in this manner, I call them cookie cutter parts. Holding the part down with fasteners allows access to all sides of the part.
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I can testify to that! :-P
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But aren't the corners of the 'D' only about 1/16" radius, requiring a 1/8" or smaller diameter cutter?
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But aren't the corners of the 'D' only about 1/16" radius, requiring a 1/8" or smaller diameter cutter?
The inside radius of the "D" hole is 1/8", I used a 1/4" cutter.
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I installed new belts for this season as the originals were out of date. I had been searching for belts and looked at many at the PRI show. I liked the Ultra Shield belts and they manufacturer their belts in Texas. They were able to supply a five point harness with 3" to 2" shoulder straps to fit the Hans device and camlock on the sub belt. The price was reasonable and the belts arrived in less than a week. The belts fit well and I feel that I can get them tighter much easier than the original belts. Practicing my bail out I find that the camlock is easier to release than the original latch and link. I am very pleased with the new belts.
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I am researching the possibility of running a low dose (20-25%) of nitromethane next year. I want to do this in conjunction with electronic fuel injection. My research so far indicates that with my current engine this will generate approximately 100 additional horsepower. I have been doing fuel requirement calculations based upon published air fuel ratios. VP has been very helpful with information. My fuel pump and injectors will need to change to larger versions and be compatible with nitromethane. Jim Craig at Weldon recommends their 2345-A pump. I have two injector manufacturers that can supply injectors for the application. It seems to be a daunting task to collect information on low dose nitromethane applications with lots of conflicting information. Nobody does it better than the Afflick team that has been 131+mph on a 100cc blown fuel motorcycle. 100cc, 54hp, 14,800rpm, 24psi of boost on 40%nitro. As they point out their application is gravity fed and carbureted so not much information can be exchanged or interpolated for my application. Hopefully more to come.
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Mike,
You are treading a pretty lightly treaded path, nitro using electronic fuel injection. Went through your calculations and not having any actual background in what you are attempting I can only say that your numbers look good. Are you running E85 presently? Have you tried methanol? VP makes an "oxygenated" version the call M-5 and it is supposed to provide a 5-7% power boost, Duke and I are "hopefully" going to give that a try this year but we also have at least part of the injector set up to run nitro. We use a Kinsler mechanical injector system, i.e. lawn sprinkler, but because we are really pretty much only concerned with the air/fuel mixture at max hp the mechanical system works pretty well. One of the drag racing forums on nitro stated that up to approx 30% nitro a well set up methanol system, (with mechanical injection) can be used as is and this is because of the higher density of nitro.
Keep us all up to speed on what you are doing as I think you are treading on new ground and I like your approach.
Rex
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G'day Mike, have successfully ran 30* naturally aspirated (EFI) in my Kawasaki ZX12R (1200cc) @11500rpm, and set 4 FIM and one DLRA record in the process,, I profess to know little, and as you say, information regarding small doses is almost non existent,,
First suggestion, do not ask advice of any top fuel persons because all thay know (and want to talk about) is 95+*,,
The temperature of the mix is critical, as you would be aware temperature changes percentage,, (ambient, blower, 5mile)
You are attempting to burn/ignite two different fuels,, Below 30* Nitro dilutes the Methanol, above 30* the BTU's in Nitro take control over the Methanol, the heat energy released becomes much more pronounced with each percentage added,,
I ran your calculations against mine (long hand, not computer generated) and came up pretty close to yours,, I note that yours are based on 4.81a/f, .744 lambda, may I suggest go richer,,
Volume, you can never have enough volume, also that methanol/Nitro mix is heavy so slow down the injectors duty cycle to 40-60*(larger injectors), did I mention volume :-),,
Dose small percentages make a difference ?, you betcha it dose :wink:
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Mike,
You are treading a pretty lightly treaded path, nitro using electronic fuel injection. Went through your calculations and not having any actual background in what you are attempting I can only say that your numbers look good. Are you running E85 presently? Have you tried methanol? VP makes an "oxygenated" version the call M-5 and it is supposed to provide a 5-7% power boost, Duke and I are "hopefully" going to give that a try this year but we also have at least part of the injector set up to run nitro. We use a Kinsler mechanical injector system, i.e. lawn sprinkler, but because we are really pretty much only concerned with the air/fuel mixture at max hp the mechanical system works pretty well. One of the drag racing forums on nitro stated that up to approx 30% nitro a well set up methanol system, (with mechanical injection) can be used as is and this is because of the higher density of nitro.
Keep us all up to speed on what you are doing as I think you are treading on new ground and I like your approach.
Rex
Rex,
Thank you for your comments. I am currently running VP's MS109 which is an oxygenated racing gasoline with an octane rating of 104. My stock injectors are maxed out running about 90% at wide open throttle. With anything that I do I have to switch to larger injectors. Working small steps at time up to nitromethane I do plan to run E-85 (probably VP C85) to insure that I have the fuel pump/injectors worked out before making the switch to nitromethane. My methodology to date has been to have a professional tuner generate the tune up on a chassis dyno. I then make a few laps at the local 1/4 mile dragstrip to gather data on the logger. When everything looks good I am then ready to make mile passes.
I ran Hilborn mechanical fuel injection on the street with a blown early Chrysler Hemi. Junior Thompson of drag racing fame prepared the mechanical fuel injection. I had air bleed nozzles which "drooled" all over after the engine was shut down. I had to deal with an electric priming system and bad behavior. My goal is utilize the good things in electronic fuel injection like injectors that shut off completely when the engine is shutdown and very precise fuel/ignition control for much better drivability.
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Mike, you might want to work out the injectors on methanol... it will be a big jump from e85 to methanol, and even bigger when you add nitro.
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G'day Mike, have successfully ran 30* naturally aspirated (EFI) in my Kawasaki ZX12R (1200cc) @11500rpm, and set 4 FIM and one DLRA record in the process,, I profess to know little, and as you say, information regarding small doses is almost non existent,,
First suggestion, do not ask advice of any top fuel persons because all thay know (and want to talk about) is 95+*,,
The temperature of the mix is critical, as you would be aware temperature changes percentage,, (ambient, blower, 5mile)
You are attempting to burn/ignite two different fuels,, Below 30* Nitro dilutes the Methanol, above 30* the BTU's in Nitro take control over the Methanol, the heat energy released becomes much more pronounced with each percentage added,,
I ran your calculations against mine (long hand, not computer generated) and came up pretty close to yours,, I note that yours are based on 4.81a/f, .744 lambda, may I suggest go richer,,
Volume, you can never have enough volume, also that methanol/Nitro mix is heavy so slow down the injectors duty cycle to 40-60*(larger injectors), did I mention volume :-),,
Dose small percentages make a difference ?, you betcha it dose :wink:
First off thank you for chiming in on this post. I can send you the spreadsheet that I used if you would like, landracing.com does not allow spreadsheets to be attached. I will plug in the 4.81 A/F ratio and see where that takes me. I plan to go with as large of injectors as I can and still have a reasonable idle. My pressure regulator is referenced to the intake manifold pressure so the pressure does come down at idle and goes up with boost. My plan was to go with injectors at their 45 psi ratings understanding that by increasing the pressure I can affectively make them flow more. If I switch to an aftermarket ECU I can add injectors up stream of the supercharger that would come on when needed. I would like to see if low dose nitromethane is practical however with just a fuel pump and injector upgrade.
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Mike, Have You thought about Nitrous ?, It works great with electronic fuel injection.
just another idea :-D
Eric
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Mike, Have You thought about Nitrous ?, It works great with electronic fuel injection.
just another idea :-D
Eric
I have considered nitrous. WeaponX here in Cincinnati (I use their dyno) has a great system that installs between the top cover and the intake manifold with individual fuel and nitrous nozzles for each cylinder. The advantage to me is that I struggle to hook up all the horsepower I have in the lower gears so I could chose to only spray in high gear at wide open throttle. Definitely an advantage. There are however disadvantages. The first is that I am using a stock GM ECU and worry about being able to reduce timing only while spraying. The other is that this is a belly tank style lakester. There is so little room for a nitrous bottle and all the additional equipment needed to make this happen. Regardless of which direction I head I will still need to upgrade to larger injectors and fuel pump. If I can get the same horsepower with injectors and fuel pump upgrade by just switching fuel it seems like a good path and it is nitromethane!
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This is a potential injector that was recommended for my application. Spud Miller of FuelInjectionEnt.com recommends 4% toluene by volume in low dose nitromethane applications to help stabilize the fuel and reduce the potential of detonation. Does anyone have any experience with toluene as an additive?
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I wanted to include manifold temperature (the air temperature after the supercharger's intercooler) but this condition is not included in the OBDII signals that are sent out of the factory ECM. I was planning to disassemble the blower cover to drill and tap for a second sensor put the material is very thin and would most likely require welding a bung in place. At the PRI show I was able to discuss this dilemma with the people from AEM that supplied the logger that I use. I found out that the analog inputs have pull up resistors that can be turned on and off in the software. By turning the pull up resistor off I can "piggyback" on the sensor that connects to the factory ECM without any ill affects. After wiring this sensor to the logger the only complication was then to create a graph in the logger that represented the temperature in relation to the voltage that the logger is seeing. On the internet I found the manufactures specifications of what resistance equaled the temperature in degrees C. I then put this information into a spreadsheet that calculated the voltage based upon the voltage present at the sensor and the value of the pullup resistor. The temperature was then converted to degrees F. The AEM logger allows up to 30 points for calculations. After some trial and error to get the best value for the pullup resistor the calibrations appear to be working correctly.
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We went to the spring ECTA event. On the first run at about 3/4 of a mile the power went down smoothly like gently lifting off of the throttle. Looking over the data from the logger the engine went lean and the ECM shut the engine down. I was expecting this to happen, just not this soon. I have been running VP MS109 which contains MTBE as an oxygenator. Every component in my fuel system except the injectors was compatible with this fuel. With the injectors running at 90% duty cycle I knew they needed upgraded but I was putting it off until I decided on the next steps. Inspection of the plugs revealed no damage, the ECM shut the engine down before anything bad happened. I am thankful for that. I have decided to add a wet nitrous system because once I go down the nitromethane route the fuel system would not accommodate any other fuel which limits what I can do with the car. More to come on the nitrous as we hit the dyno with new Injector Dynamic 1,050cc injectors which are compatible with all fuel including nitromethane and MTBE.
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I had an open analog channel on my data logger and decided to add exhaust gas temperature. I had previously added a fourth O2 sensor bung for the tuners wide band sensor when running on the dyno. I machined a fitting. The male threads are M18x1.5 threads to fit into the O2 bung. I then machined a brass ferrule for the thermocouple. A bolt with 3/8-24 threads was machined to hold the thermocouple into the fitting somewhat like an inverted flare fitting for a brake line. The thermocouple came from Amazon for less than $10 with a 2,000 degree F range and a 3 meter stainless steel lead.
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Thermocouples cannot be coupled directly to the logger, the signals need to be amplified. AEM sells an 8 channel thermocouple amplifier for $400+ and I only needed one channel at this point. I was able to get from Ebay a single channel amplifier for $30. This amplifier uses an AD8495 chip from Analog devices that I am familiar with and provides a linear 4mV/degree C output. This amplifier has a 32-2282 F output range. This amplifier also uses 8-32Vdc power so it works properly on the 12V system in the car. It took some trial and error with testing to get this connected to my logger and verify its accuracy. The logger is very compact and comes with a partial enclosure that has slots for mounting.
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With very little room in a belly tank there was only one spot that I could mount a 5 pound nitrous bottle. I fabricated mounts from 1" x 1/4" steel bar.
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The bottle is mounted with only plumbing and wiring left to complete.
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I'm eager to see where your Nitro + EFI journey takes you. I have been doing considerable reading on the topic (Bob Sbazo has some great books) but the documentation covers almost exclusively mechanical fuel injection and analog ignition. Supposedly a modern coil pack and spark plug will light off methanol just fine. I'm interested to see how the O2 sensors feel about it.
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Do you plan to go to Loring ME this summer?
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Do you plan to go to Loring ME this summer?
Unfortunately Loring is not in our plans for this year.
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I decided to put the nitrous activation switch on the butterfly style steering wheel. The steering wheel never seemed to be any sturdier than it needed to be so I was reluctant to start drilling holes in it or welding brackets on. I decided to machine a " clamp on" style mount. I started with two pieces of aluminum that were pinned and held together with 8-32 socket cap screws. I then machined and open slot that would fit on the spoke of the steering wheel. Since the switch was offset in the mount I used a four jaw chuck in the lathe to hold the mount to drill, bore and thread the hole for the switch. I felt that the threads were unusual at 5/8-24. I would have expected 5/8-32 which is a more standard electrical equipment thread. Single pointing threads on a CNC lathe makes this job easy as the thread pitch is just one of the numbers that you input.
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A photo of the assembled mount.
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A photo of the switch installed on the steering wheel in the car.
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Mike, that looks like an Otto Controls push button switch.
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Neil,
The button I used came from Jegs. I have used the same button with a mushroom head for line lock on another application. The buttons have been sturdy and are very compact with the coiled cord connection potted on the back. Otto also makes good stuff.
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We were not able to complete the first dyno tuneup with the new 1,050cc injectors due to a cooling water tank leak. I fixed the leak and we made it back to the dyno. After a few pulls to get the fueling corrected for the new injectors we made a fourth gear pull. Previous best corrected rear wheel horsepower was 601.8. With no changes other than injectors and spark plugs the result was 630hp. We made a pull with a 75hp shot of nitrous and the power jumped quickly 70hp at the rear wheels. I am more than pleased with the injectors from Injector Dynamics. We can continue to run VP's MS109 fuel without fear of destroying the injectors with the MTBE. The following is a link to one of the pulls, https://www.facebook.com/michael.e.brown.754/videos/476745360579175.
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After repairing my water tank I had to loosen a hose (all my water connections are garden hose) to get the air out of pump before it would begin working. There is a vent line on that side of the tank but unfortunately my pump is higher than the top of the tank. This has been a problem from time to time when I refill the tank after winter. So I machined my hose adapter for a drain petcock.
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Of course everything about a belly tank is will it fit inside the body. I machined the tapped hole for the petcock at an angle on the adapter block that I knew fit under the body.
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Always looking for more seat time in my lakester I decided to give dirt drag racing a try. A local autoparts supplier, KOI, puts on 200' drag races in the dirt at many locations throughout Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana. I contacted them about making a few runs with the lakester and they said, "bring it on down". I needed tires other than road race slicks and I still had the M&H drag radials that were ruined on my 221.44 mph run. I decided to grind them into a sort of paddle tire. I got a 16 grit brazed carbide grinding disc from Harbor Freight and fabricated a fixture to grind the tires. A little messy but easily done.
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I made three practice runs. Not wanting to ruin my clutch I rolled out easy from the start and then rolled into the throttle. I ran the 2.48:1 final drive ratio and stayed in first gear. Near the finish line I bumped into the rev limiter. My crew suggested short shifting into second gear. That resulted in a wild ride with the tires breaking loose and the rear end shifting a foot or more to the side. I was able to keep the car in the lane but it was exciting for a short moment. I stayed with first gear passes and just modulated the throttle. All my passes were in the 4-1/2 second range. I won one race and lost two but it was a great experience. It definitely required driving the car. A link to a test pass is as follows, https://www.facebook.com/koidragracing.racing/videos/1272046383581484. If you hold Ctrl and click on the link it should take you directly to the video.
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Drag racing on dirt? That's a new one on me!
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Track length?
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This is so awesome! Great idea on the tires.
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Track length?
The track length is a very short 200 feet.
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Drag racing on dirt? That's a new one on me!
Koi races at county fairs on tractor pulling tracks. Two main groups, side by sides, motorcycles, quads then mostly four wheel drive diesel trucks. They consider the lakester “full size” so I raced with the trucks.
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I've been around vehicles all my 82 years but never a "side-by-side". :? Educate me...
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I've been around vehicles all my 82 years but never a "side-by-side". :? Educate me...
Just like in drag racing they use a "tree" with lights to start the race. There are photo beams across the track for each lane. "Staging" is done independently by pulling forward until the first beam is broken then the second beam. When both lanes are staged in a "pro tree" all the yellow lights flash for .4 seconds then the green light to go comes on. If you leave before the green light comes on you lose with a red light. First car across the finish line wins. This event was double eliminations, you keep racing until your second loss. You must stay within bounds, they don't like that, and it will get you kicked out of the event. There were lots of different classes for the trucks. I didn't fit well into most, so they let me run in a 4.0 index class. Almost anything goes but you cannot run faster than 4.0 seconds in 200 feet or you lose. I estimate that there was 50+ vehicles competing. When they race side by sides, quads and motorcycles they have had over 100 competitors. The top speeds are slow so not much attention is paid to tech inspections. For me it equated to more seat time with questionable traction, you really had to drive the lakester. Looking back at the data I did hit .85gs of acceleration at one time. My reaction time (time from green until the car left the photo beams) was very slow because I did not want to ruin my clutch with the 2.48:1 final drive ratio. I did get accused of sand bagging the start only to run some of the trucks down near the end but that is just the nature of my vehicle. It was all fun.
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I've been around vehicles all my 82 years but never a "side-by-side". :? Educate me...
Morning Jack, Here is what a "side-by-side" vehicle is.
Hope this helps.
Tom G.
https://outdoortroop.com/the-beginners-guide-to-the-side-by-side/
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https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=side+by+side&form=HDRSC2&first=1&tsc=ImageHoverTitle
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Thanks Tom and Slim. I don't get out enough...
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... First car across the finish line wins...
... you cannot run faster than 4.0 seconds in 200 feet or you lose...
"Index racing"- another form of "bracket racing". I understand its popularity, but can't get enthused about it. My efforts have only been in "heads up" motorsports- pulling and landspeed. :-)
Too bad we didn't have ET clocks in pulling. On good clay tracks my 1,800 pound minipuller ran 300' in under ten seconds- dragging a 14,000 pound transfer sled!
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The standard firestop caulk that I used to seal small gaps between my intake piping and the firewall has been problematic. It gets very hard and is not very compliant. In addition it is water soluble. I haul the car on an open trailer and if it rains the smallest amount of water starts dissolving the firestop. The material cracks up and falls out. I end up cleaning the material out and reapplying every event. I found this firestop which is made by Great Stuff and is classified by UL for sealing penetrations. Has anyone had any experience with this firestop? Would it be approved for sealing small gaps in firewalls?
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The stuff I used is made by 3M and comes in a caulking tube. I forget the exact name but it is commonly available. The stuff looks like red RTV but is rated to a very high temperature and is not water soluble.
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Thanks for the heads-up on 3M. I'm also suffering from brittle/flaking firestop material.
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Neil is this it? Lowe's has it!
3M? Fire Barrier Sealant CP 25WB
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On our lakester we used a fire stop material that came in a "caulking" tube. Bough at Home Depot.
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Neil is this it? Lowe's has it!
3M? Fire Barrier Sealant CP 25WB
That's it- I bought mine from Home Depot.
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The stuff I used is made by 3M and comes in a caulking tube. I forget the exact name but it is commonly available. The stuff looks like red RTV but is rated to a very high temperature and is not water soluble.
We use this to seal around fire barriers when building hospitals, it is supposed to swell and seal tight when exposed to fire.
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Don, I believe that's called intumescent foam. :cheers:
Wayno
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This is the fire block caulking that I got from Home Depot. This sealant is gray in color and will crack as it is more like a mortar than what I think of as caulking or sealant. It is not approved for use as a fire stop on rated construction. The sealant that Woody references (3M CP 25WB) is rated for fire stop use and is "intumescent foam" as Wayno describes it. I will try this material and add a post.
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A photo of the area that I am having problems with the fire block. I will clean this up well and try the 3M CP 25WB.
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A photo of the area that I am having problems with the fire block. I will clean this up well and try the 3M CP 25WB.
It should work just fine. Smooth it out with your finger and it will look decent.
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I disassembled the air intake plumbing so that all of the surfaces could be cleaned well. Upon reassembly I realized that some of the gaps could be reduced with the addition of some sheet metal. I added a section of sheet metal then used the 3M sealant. The new sealant was much more compliant. Photo attached. It looks like a much safer solution.
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We attended the recent ECTA event in Blytheville Arkansas. Our previous best mile was 201.794mph. Our second run we bumped that speed to 210.133mph. The injector changes accounted for about a 30 horsepower increase but I don't think that such a meager increase would account for 8+mph. The track was loose for me on the first run causing me to lift twice to reestablish traction resulting in a 203mph run. The second run was much better possibly due to driving a better line down the track. It was a good event for us.
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If that is a sheet metal screw I see it is a no-no. Vibration eventually loosens them and they fall out. Hopefully not in front of one of your tires. If not ignore me.
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Congrats Mike! That's an impressive pass in the mile.
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If that is a sheet metal screw I see it is a no-no. Vibration eventually loosens them and they fall out. Hopefully not in front of one of your tires. If not ignore me.
It's a lakester... probably have to travel to get his tire... :evil:
Mike, next time you have the RTV out cover that screw so the RTV will help retain it... probably a lot easier than drilling it for safety wire :roll:
:cheers:
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If that is a sheet metal screw I see it is a no-no. Vibration eventually loosens them and they fall out. Hopefully not in front of one of your tires. If not ignore me.
I am constantly amazed at things this group can find in a low resolution photo. It took me a couple of looks to see the screw in question. Thankfully that is not a sheet metal screw. It is an 8-32 self-tapping machine screw with a keps nut (has a star washer permanently attached) on the backside. I do see you point regarding sheet metal screws and there is none used in my build. As always thank everyone for their comments they are greatly appreciated.
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I take the lakester to a few car shows every year. It isn't one of the shiny cars so kids (and sometimes adults) can sit inside the car. Hopefully a seed will be planted for a future land speed racer, at least spectators get a chance to see that there are still some home grown race cars out there. I was invited to the Dayton Ohio Concours De Elegance. It was way out of my league, but it was a lot of fun. The parking lot for trailered vehicles was about 1/2 mile from the show and I did get to drive the lakester on the road following a courtesy van. I rarely get a trophy at car shows, most people can't even figure out what it is. At the Bob Pulte Chevrolet show in Lebanon Ohio they came to the last trophy. The announcer stated that this trophy was not for the best looking car but was in fact the "technician's choice". My heart rate went up a little as I knew that I had a chance at this one. I was right, I came home with the technician's choice award. One of the technicians welded up what I thought was a fantastic trophy.
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I take the lakester to a few car shows every year. It isn't one of the shiny cars so kids (and sometimes adults) can sit inside the car. Hopefully a seed will be planted for a future land speed racer, at least spectators get a chance to see that there are still some home grown race cars out there. I was invited to the Dayton Ohio Concours De Elegance. It was way out of my league, but it was a lot of fun. The parking lot for trailered vehicles was about 1/2 mile from the show and I did get to drive the lakester on the road following a courtesy van. I rarely get a trophy at car shows, most people can't even figure out what it is. At the Bob Pulte Chevrolet show in Lebanon Ohio they came to the last trophy. The announcer stated that this trophy was not for the best looking car but was in fact the "technician's choice". My heart rate went up a little as I knew that I had a chance at this one. I was right, I came home with the technician's choice award. One of the technicians welded up what I thought was a fantastic trophy.
I take my car out to car shows, too, and let little kids sit on the driver's side door sill to have their picture taken by their parents or friends. The kids love it and they don't hurt anything, so why not? LSR cars are something people don't see at every car show and it is a good opportunity to talk to interesting people.
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I take the lakester to a few car shows every year. It isn't one of the shiny cars so kids (and sometimes adults) can sit inside the car. Hopefully a seed will be planted for a future land speed racer, at least spectators get a chance to see that there are still some home grown race cars out there. I was invited to the Dayton Ohio Concours De Elegance. It was way out of my league, but it was a lot of fun. The parking lot for trailered vehicles was about 1/2 mile from the show and I did get to drive the lakester on the road following a courtesy van. I rarely get a trophy at car shows, most people can't even figure out what it is. At the Bob Pulte Chevrolet show in Lebanon Ohio they came to the last trophy. The announcer stated that this trophy was not for the best looking car but was in fact the "technician's choice". My heart rate went up a little as I knew that I had a chance at this one. I was right, I came home with the technician's choice award. One of the technicians welded up what I thought was a fantastic trophy.
So you're DOHC Mike now! :cheers:
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I take the lakester to a few car shows every year. It isn't one of the shiny cars so kids (and sometimes adults) can sit inside the car. Hopefully a seed will be planted for a future land speed racer, at least spectators get a chance to see that there are still some home grown race cars out there. I was invited to the Dayton Ohio Concours De Elegance. It was way out of my league, but it was a lot of fun. The parking lot for trailered vehicles was about 1/2 mile from the show and I did get to drive the lakester on the road following a courtesy van. I rarely get a trophy at car shows, most people can't even figure out what it is. At the Bob Pulte Chevrolet show in Lebanon Ohio they came to the last trophy. The announcer stated that this trophy was not for the best looking car but was in fact the "technician's choice". My heart rate went up a little as I knew that I had a chance at this one. I was right, I came home with the technician's choice award. One of the technicians welded up what I thought was a fantastic trophy.
So you're DOHC Mike now! :cheers:Woody, you need to explain that one, the only one I associate with that is dual overhead cam.
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Being a mile racer, my top priority is concentrating on the finish line. To eliminate distractions, I don't have any gauges in the cockpit. All the data goes to the logger for review after the run. I am in the process of adding roll control to the front brakes when drag racing in the dirt. This will allow me to hold my position in the lights while taking my foot off of the brake and back on the throttle for the launch. I decided to utilize the same button on the steering wheel that is used to activate the nitrous (I won't use nitrous for a 4-1/2 second run in the dirt and no need to use roll control in the mile). The button already had a two position Molex connector for attachment so it would just be adding another position to plug it into for the roll control. I thought that it would be nice to have a visual indication that the roll control or nitrous was active. I purchased 10 LED running lights from Amazon for less than $9. They mount with a grommet in a 3/4" hole, draw .030A and are very bright. I created a small dash to make plugging in the button cord easier and a place to mount the indicators.
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A photo of the dash. There are indicators and plugs for the roll control and nitrous. A place to attach my shift light and fire alarm panel. It helps with the goal of keeping the wiring neat and organized.
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I take the lakester to a few car shows every year. It isn't one of the shiny cars so kids (and sometimes adults) can sit inside the car. Hopefully a seed will be planted for a future land speed racer, at least spectators get a chance to see that there are still some home grown race cars out there. I was invited to the Dayton Ohio Concours De Elegance. It was way out of my league, but it was a lot of fun. The parking lot for trailered vehicles was about 1/2 mile from the show and I did get to drive the lakester on the road following a courtesy van. I rarely get a trophy at car shows, most people can't even figure out what it is. At the Bob Pulte Chevrolet show in Lebanon Ohio they came to the last trophy. The announcer stated that this trophy was not for the best looking car but was in fact the "technician's choice". My heart rate went up a little as I knew that I had a chance at this one. I was right, I came home with the technician's choice award. One of the technicians welded up what I thought was a fantastic trophy.
So you're DOHC Mike now! :cheers:Woody, you need to explain that one, the only one I associate with that is dual overhead cam.
Hold the trophy over your head Mike! :-P
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I reviewed my data files from the last event (210.131mph) and found out that I was pedaling the car the entire time in first and second gear. I also noticed two spikes in RPM, the first coming back on the throttle in third gear and the second at about the 49 second mark while at full throttle. I know the car would be faster if I could hook up more of the horsepower that I have. My first thoughts are that my rear suspension is over dampened. The rubber springs have a lot of inherent dampening along with the stock Monroe shocks. I took this information to a fitment technician from QA1 at the PRI show in Indianapolis. He felt that the rear suspension was most likely over sprung. The next step for me was to get accurate weights of the car.
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I borrowed a set of four wireless scales from the local Porsche club. They are easy to use and had been recently calibrated (they were used by a group that built and flew a Wright Brothers replica flyer). That gave me a total weight of 2,708 pounds (less fuel and water) which I expected. Weight on the rear wheels was 1,495 pounds.
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I then disconnected the shocks and raised the chassis with a floor jack until the rubber springs were no longer in contact with their perches. This gave me a total unsprung weight of 521 pounds. This gives me a rear chassis weight of 974 pounds to use in my calculations for rear coil springs. My next choice will be to buy bare shocks to install in the original shock mounting positions and add coil springs or to do coil overs behind the rear axle. I still have more research to do.
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Looks like a nice winter project, Mike. Good traction requires fairly soft springs and shock settings. I would think you should probably use shocks that are adjustable in both compression and rebound and start with a pretty low spring rate, somewhere in the 150-200 lb/inch. This is assuming that the spring/shock is directly connected to the axle. Have fun.
Rex
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Looking at the data, one would have a few questions/comments
1 Except for coming off the line, no apparent rpm spikes?so why ?pedaling? in 1st and 2nd?
2 Spike at 2-3 shift may have just been a harsh shift, or marginal clutch capacity.
3 Spikes at 49 and 54 seconds may well have been a bumps on the track.
4 Given above, why the concern about rear suspension unless too stiff for the bumps?
5 Did you or how did you level the load cells?
6 Weight distribution ? do you run without water, oil, driver?
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Looking at the data, one would have a few questions/comments
1 Except for coming off the line, no apparent rpm spikes?so why ?pedaling? in 1st and 2nd?
2 Spike at 2-3 shift may have just been a harsh shift, or marginal clutch capacity.
3 Spikes at 49 and 54 seconds may well have been a bumps on the track.
4 Given above, why the concern about rear suspension unless too stiff for the bumps?
5 Did you or how did you level the load cells?
6 Weight distribution ? do you run without water, oil, driver?
1) Pedaling the car is due to the chassis squirming from side to side as I am looking for traction and not wanting to overpower the tires resulting in spinning the car.
2) The 2-3 spike was most likely rolling back on the throttle too hard while releasing the clutch. The clutch is a dual disk dual mass clutch which has not exhibited any issues of slipping.
3) The other spikes I would attribute to bumps on the track, that is what I would like to alleviate.
4) I believe that the rear suspension is too stiff and too dampened for the bumps in the track.
5) That portion of my garage floor is level with about 1/8" as verified by a level on a 2x4 which is sufficient for the need to select a spring rate.
6) Weighing of the car was done with the driver in the cockpit, without cooling water and fuel which is about 100 pounds. Again accurate enough to help with selecting a spring rate.
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Knowledge is a wonderful thing. While at the last ECTA event two gentlemen came up and were very interested in the car. After I spilled my guts about what I knew Gerry Clark proceeded to tell me that he was the head engineer for the intake system on the LSA engine. A very modest guy that really knew this engine inside and out. I sent him an email regarding my winter project and here was his reply:
"With your described symptoms, I think I agree with the QA1 guy based on what you described. Less spring and damping should allow better traction as a first step. Please note the Eaton blower engine should be very linear on power delivery, (Power Potential = Airflow = Blower displacement x drive ratio x engine RPM). But the act of pedaling the car can make the 'dumb' bypass open, ditching boost but the blower is still spinning at full tilt so when you reopen the throttle you might hit the bypass vacuum/pressure threshold pretty hard and even with an easy touch on the pedal getting back in you might have 'all the onions'. I do not know your control mechanization and would scrutinize the bypass position and throttle position (And post throttle vs post blower pressures) during runs if possible."
This reflects how hard the car hits when coming back on the throttle after shifts or when "pedaling" the car. I believe that any improvements in traction will result in both smoother power delivery and higher speeds as pedaling this blower motor is not a good thing.
It is great that Gerry would take the time to respond to my inquiry, I am thankful.
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I worked with Jerry Magnuson and TRD on a "bypass problem" with Eaton supercharger kits (back in 1997-98). I found the transition from "spinning blower in vacuum" to "throttle open" would buck and/or stumble the application of throttle. Jerry's system had a vacuum line controlling the bypass valve, and by installing an .022" restriction in the vacuum line, the "reboost" was ramped in over about 800 milliseconds, which the ECU could handle easily.
When the blower is spinning, and you close the throttle, it acts as a "booster" vacuum pump in addition to the engine capacity. Reopening the throttle can drive the measured airflow beyond the capability of the ECU (momentarily.) Using a portable oscilloscope, I was seeing a 5 volt circuit exceed 5.24 volts (where 4.9 volt was the maximum useable signal in the software).
It all reminds me of the "method" needed to test supersonic airplane design. It is impossible to blow air supersonic with a fan, but if you put a big enough vaccum tank behind it, atmospheric air will easily go supersonic into that big "hole". A blower in front of a vacuum pump, becomes part of the vacuum tank when you come off the throttle. Crazy stuff happens when you reopen that throttle.
If yours has that small vacuum line controlling the bypass, you might try a .023" wire welder tip to see if it helps your throttle control. I don't actually know what your control system is, of course, but thought I could share my ancient history "memory". We wound up installing that little restrictor in thousands of kits and ended the complaints.
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I worked with Jerry Magnuson and TRD on a "bypass problem" with Eaton supercharger kits (back in 1997-98). I found the transition from "spinning blower in vacuum" to "throttle open" would buck and/or stumble the application of throttle. Jerry's system had a vacuum line controlling the bypass valve, and by installing an .022" restriction in the vacuum line, the "reboost" was ramped in over about 800 milliseconds, which the ECU could handle easily.
When the blower is spinning, and you close the throttle, it acts as a "booster" vacuum pump in addition to the engine capacity. Reopening the throttle can drive the measured airflow beyond the capability of the ECU (momentarily.) Using a portable oscilloscope, I was seeing a 5 volt circuit exceed 5.24 volts (where 4.9 volt was the maximum useable signal in the software).
It all reminds me of the "method" needed to test supersonic airplane design. It is impossible to blow air supersonic with a fan, but if you put a big enough vaccum tank behind it, atmospheric air will easily go supersonic into that big "hole". A blower in front of a vacuum pump, becomes part of the vacuum tank when you come off the throttle. Crazy stuff happens when you reopen that throttle.
If yours has that small vacuum line controlling the bypass, you might try a .023" wire welder tip to see if it helps your throttle control. I don't actually know what your control system is, of course, but thought I could share my ancient history "memory". We wound up installing that little restrictor in thousands of kits and ended the complaints.
Thank you very much for that suggestion. My blower bypass valve is no longer controlled by the ECM, I simply plumbed the blower bypass valve dashpot to the intake after the blower. The other side of the dashpot is vented (through a filter) to atmosphere. I was contemplating using "bucking" pressure on this side of the dashpot by installing a needle valve that I could adjust to dampen the response of the bypass valve. An .023" jet will give me a starting point. I am always amazed by the "been there done that" help that pops up on this forum.
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Hi Mike, your spring discussion is very timely for me and I would like to explore my (deep lack of) understanding here if you don't mind. I setup my Lakester (still working on it, honest) with best guess springs and its harder then a very hard thing - my 240lb mass cannot bounce it even a smidge on the rears. I don't like what I did first iteration and with more bits and pieces attached it has become more obvious regarding a better position for the coil overs so I need to place an order for both longer shocks to get the mounting points reasonable and a pair of softer springs.
You noted 521 lbs un-sprung so 453lb sprung weight (226 each side) and Rex suggested 150 - 200 lb in springs. Do you have any idea what the rubber ones you have are rated at (noting the assumption they are too firm) and, with 260lb on a 200lb spring so about 1 and 1/8 of an inch deflection when the weight engages the spring to its settled ride height i.e. the sprung weight is 1.13x the spring rating so it will deflect 1.13" on static load?
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Hi Mike, your spring discussion is very timely for me and I would like to explore my (deep lack of) understanding here if you don't mind. I setup my Lakester (still working on it, honest) with best guess springs and its harder then a very hard thing - my 240lb mass cannot bounce it even a smidge on the rears. I don't like what I did first iteration and with more bits and pieces attached it has become more obvious regarding a better position for the coil overs so I need to place an order for both longer shocks to get the mounting points reasonable and a pair of softer springs.
You noted 521 lbs un-sprung so 453lb sprung weight (226 each side) and Rex suggested 150 - 200 lb in springs. Do you have any idea what the rubber ones you have are rated at (noting the assumption they are too firm) and, with 260lb on a 200lb spring so about 1 and 1/8 of an inch deflection when the weight engages the spring to its settled ride height i.e. the sprung weight is 1.13x the spring rating so it will deflect 1.13" on static load?
I have attached a graph for the rubber springs that I used on my belly tank. It is cold here in Ohio but I did notice that my springs did not return to their unloaded height after the weight was lifted from them which is troubling. I have ordered 160 pound/inch QA1 springs that are 8" tall. For my preferred ride height I have approximately 5" between perches. So if this works as I understand it with 487 pounds (1/2 sprung weight of 974 pounds) per side the springs will compress about 3" (487lbs/160lbs per inch) which will get me to the correct ride height of 5" (8"-3"). I hope this helps. /quote]
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Thanks Mike
My logic was okayish but I clearly misread your weight info.
So far I have only got total weight and haven't disengaged the rear to measure unsprung weight. Currently doing some fibre glassing to create bespoke air plenums for the inlet side of things.
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After much planning I ordered 8 inch tall QA1 coil springs from Jegs. The compression rate is 160 pounds per inch. With my unsprung weight they should have collapsed about 3" giving me the original ride height of 5 inches. After installation they measured 4-3/4 inches which was very close. The springs are designed for use with coil-over shocks but worked well in my application. The OD is 2-5/8 inches with an ID of just over 1-7/8 inches. I machined blocks of aluminum 1 inch tall by 1-7/8 inches in diameter. These were used to keep each end of the spring centered on its perch. The top blocks have a 3/4-16 thread and the bottom blocks have a 1/2" clearance hole for mounting. After the shocks were disconnected I raised the chassis up with my hoist to install the springs. With the shocks disconnected the rear of the car is now very compliant. The plan is to install QA1 double adjustable shocks which should provide a really wide range of dampening. No modifications were required to the chassis to switch from rubber springs to the coil springs.
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Inspection of the rubber spring parts revealed that in addition to being oversprung the rear suspension was going solid with the nuts inside the rubber springs impacting the aluminum ride height adjuster nuts. I don't know if this was happening during a run or while being trailered but this was not good. The imprint of the nut is obvious in the photo of the adjuster.
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While I had the rear suspension apart I removed the driveshaft to inspect the universal joints. All was good so I cleaned it up and gave it a quick coat of paint.
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The new shocks from QA1 arrived today. The only modification required was to narrow bottom mount from 3-3/8" to 2". I also did this to the original Monroe shocks. Wow, with the shocks installed you can really tell a difference in the dampening just by shaking the rear of the car up and down. I am very much looking forward to testing this new rear suspension, probably first on a quarter mile dragstrip. Installed photo coming soon.
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The new shocks are larger in diameter than the original shocks from Monroe. When I removed the shocks I noticed some rub marks on the shock bodies. They were apparently rubbing on the frame. I don't know if this occurred with large movements of the suspension (possibly on the trailer) or when making sharp turns. With the slicks and no differential turning is a challenge. I relocated the bottom of the shocks inward about an 1" to increase clearance. This necessitated making clearance on the upper stiffening webs of the rear end. I wanted to do a nice job but did not want to disassemble the entire back end of the car, so I came up with a plan to do it in situation. I started with a hole saw. I added an extension so the upper shock mount would help guide the hole saw. Since the pilot bit would not be engaging any material, I added a piece of rod that would allow me to steady the hole with my hand. A photo of the hole saw assembly is attached.
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To guide the hole saw I clamped a piece of 1/4" steel that I had cut with the hole saw to the rib that I was cutting.
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I then proceeded to cut the rib with the hole saw assembly in a drill.
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This methodology worked well (and safely) with a photo of the finished cut attached.
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I decided to install a panhard rod. There is not a lot of room inside the belly tank but I didn't want it hanging out in the air. This necessitated a shorter than desired panhard rod but with a very short suspension travel would be satisfactory. I used the same methodology for the panhard rod that I used for the other suspension links, consisting of 3/4" rod ends direct threaded into 1-1/4"OD 3/8" wall DOM tube. Each end was bored and threaded 3/4-16, left and right hand threads for maximum adjustability. A photo of the link attached.
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I wasn't sure that the panhard rod would work without binding and I am hesitant to weld mounts to the frame at this point as disassembly for service is getting more difficult let alone cutting brackets off of the frame. There is also so little room that it just made sense to bolt the mounts to the frame and rear end. The mounts were made from 1/4" and 3/8" steel. I installed the mounts and link and was pleasantly surprised that there was no binding of the suspension as it went through its travel. The Satchell style four link does not technically need a panhard rod (maybe for the street) but with slicks and a spool in the rear end it will definitely stabilize the lateral movement of the rear end and keep the new shocks from hitting the frame rails.
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Good work... yep the last thing you need is a steering input from the rear.
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Before you install a Panhard rod, have a look at a Watts Linkage to locate your rear axle. Properly installed it solves the Panhard problem.
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Neil, look at the picture again... not sure he has room for a Watts. The panhard is just suspenders for his belt anyway. I'm not a fan of panhards, but it looks level and his suspension movements are small.
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Neil, look at the picture again... not sure he has room for a Watts. The panhard is just suspenders for his belt anyway. I'm not a fan of panhards, but it looks level and his suspension movements are small.
I can't tell from those photos how level it is.
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I agree with Mike that his suspension design does not require a panhard rod, and it becomes redundant. Now with the high mounting of the panhard rod and the mounting position of the upper angled control rods both are trying to set the roll center for the rear end. It appears that they are both pretty close to being in line with each other which is probably why the suspension does not bind.
An option would have been making the upper control arms into a ridged "A" arm with a single ball joint connected to the differential and the panhard rod would not be needed and you would have one less Heim joint.
Rex
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I agree with Mike that his suspension design does not require a panhard rod, and it becomes redundant. Now with the high mounting of the panhard rod and the mounting position of the upper angled control rods both are trying to set the roll center for the rear end. It appears that they are both pretty close to being in line with each other which is probably why the suspension does not bind.
An option would have been making the upper control arms into a ridged "A" arm with a single ball joint connected to the differential and the panhard rod would not be needed and you would have one less Heim joint.
Rex
I agree with you Rex, if I were to do the rear suspension all over I would probably choose a 3 link design with a torque arm. At this point I just want to protect my very expensive double adjustable shocks. The suspension is still about an inch up and down. The side to side displacement of the rear end with the 9-1/2" center to center pan hard rod (which is level at ride height) is less than 1/16" of an inch according to my calculations. The pan hard rod is very close to the height of the top links which helps to keep the roll center manageable. The small amount of suspension stroke is the only thing that makes this unusual combination work.
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A photo of the rub marks on the original Monroe shocks. Between the rubber springs lacking compliance, the rubber spring mounts bottoming and the shocks rubbing on the frame the rear suspension was a mess. I hope to have all this corrected and greatly improve hooking the horsepower to the track this Spring.
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To help prevent the QA1 shocks from contacting the frame I relocated the bottom mounts inward about an inch. The compression and rebound adjustments are easily accessed.
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A view from the top of the QA1 shock mounted.
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When I run at side by side drag races (including in the dirt) my launch has always been very slow. I need a foot on the brake to keep from rolling into or out of the staging lights. This requires me to then come off the brakes, engage the throttle and release the clutch. For this season I added "roll control" which is a solenoid that will electrically hold the front brakes on after they are engaged. I am using the same button on the steering wheel that I will use to activate the nitrous. I will not use nitrous in drag racing nor roll control at land speed events. I attached a photo of the solenoid plumbed in after the master cylinder for the front brakes. On my car the front brakes are separate from the rear brakes activated by a hand lever on the left side of the cockpit. It will be interesting to see how well my reaction time improves.
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Mike minor suggestion... upper shock mount might be stronger with a gusset... :cheers:
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Mike minor suggestion... upper shock mount might be stronger with a gusset... :cheers:
You know Woody said the same thing, I guess that I will add a gusset.
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Going forward this shall be known as the Stainless-Woody gusset.
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Mike, I did my best but failed... trying to resist mentioning I'm familiar with the 'Stainless Woody" but never needed a gusset... :roll: :laugh: :laugh:
:cheers:
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Mike, I did my best but failed... trying to resist mentioning I'm familiar with the 'Stainless Woody" but never needed a gusset... :roll: :laugh: :laugh:
:cheers:
I'm guessing this is from hands on experience. :laugh:
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I worked with Jerry Magnuson and TRD on a "bypass problem" with Eaton supercharger kits (back in 1997-98). I found the transition from "spinning blower in vacuum" to "throttle open" would buck and/or stumble the application of throttle. Jerry's system had a vacuum line controlling the bypass valve, and by installing an .022" restriction in the vacuum line, the "reboost" was ramped in over about 800 milliseconds, which the ECU could handle easily.
When the blower is spinning, and you close the throttle, it acts as a "booster" vacuum pump in addition to the engine capacity. Reopening the throttle can drive the measured airflow beyond the capability of the ECU (momentarily.) Using a portable oscilloscope, I was seeing a 5 volt circuit exceed 5.24 volts (where 4.9 volt was the maximum useable signal in the software).
It all reminds me of the "method" needed to test supersonic airplane design. It is impossible to blow air supersonic with a fan, but if you put a big enough vaccum tank behind it, atmospheric air will easily go supersonic into that big "hole". A blower in front of a vacuum pump, becomes part of the vacuum tank when you come off the throttle. Crazy stuff happens when you reopen that throttle.
If yours has that small vacuum line controlling the bypass, you might try a .023" wire welder tip to see if it helps your throttle control. I don't actually know what your control system is, of course, but thought I could share my ancient history "memory". We wound up installing that little restrictor in thousands of kits and ended the complaints.
Thank you very much for that suggestion. My blower bypass valve is no longer controlled by the ECM, I simply plumbed the blower bypass valve dashpot to the intake after the blower. The other side of the dashpot is vented (through a filter) to atmosphere. I was contemplating using "bucking" pressure on this side of the dashpot by installing a needle valve that I could adjust to dampen the response of the bypass valve. An .023" jet will give me a starting point. I am always amazed by the "been there done that" help that pops up on this forum.
I appreciate the knowledge gained from racers contributing to this forum. I would like to have some adjustability with the supercharger bypass valve. Looking for various "jets" to use for this purpose I remembered that I my nitrous system came with a variety of jets. I have jets from .018" to .062" which will be a useful range. The next step was to machine a holder for the jets. While measuring the jets I found the "stem" to be approximately 3/16". I tried them on a 3/16" compression fitting in place of the ferrule and they fit great.
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A photo of the jet installed in the fitting.
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I plumbed the jet holder to the dashpot with short section of braided hose so that the jets would be easy to change at the track. I will add a foam filter to protect the jet from dirt and debris.
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To protect the restriction jet from debris I covered the jet assembly with a microphone cover typically used on boom style microphones. The foam cover fit perfectly.