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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: TugBoat123 on March 28, 2015, 09:10:33 PM

Title: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 28, 2015, 09:10:33 PM
Well folks... This is going to be a blog/build diary of my families attempt at building a salt-worthy lakester. Please follow along. I welcome all the friendly constructive criticism, helpful hints, and encouraging words of wisdom similar to what I've seen as I've looked through other build diaries on this website. We (my mother, father, brother, sister, friends, and I) have no intention of breaking records. We are just excited to go fast and have a good time.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Stan Back on March 28, 2015, 09:36:30 PM
You're in the right place -- there seems to be more lakester people here than any other category -- go for it!
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 28, 2015, 09:43:03 PM
First, I'd like to mention that we started attending speed week over 10 years ago. We brought a car out there in 2012. We made rookie mistakes. We didn't do everything we should have to make sure our car was "legit". We were disqualified in tech because our roll cage was 1\8" too small in diameter. We went home with our tail between our legs. It was a heartbreak. This is not a new story at Bonneville. It won't be the last time it happens. It happens every year. So anyways... I digress.
    My father (the captain/crew leader of our group) wasn't discouraged. We have a good engine. Good trans. And plenty of other things we need to complete a car. So, he got a good company in Ohio to build us a new chassis. This blog will start with me posting descriptions and pictures of where we are at right now, and I will probably post pictures from the past as I reminisce (or lament) over previous experiences. I'm sure I'll be asking plenty of questions along the way. Thanks in advance! Hope to see you on the salt this August.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Elmo Rodge on March 28, 2015, 10:21:48 PM
What engine class are you running? It helps in the overall thought process.  :-D wayno
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 28, 2015, 10:42:21 PM
D/GL is the class we will be running. We have a small block Chevy. Naturally aspirated. Connected to a 2-speed Powerglide trans
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 29, 2015, 12:16:13 AM
Struggling to add pictures. First my pictures were too big, so I tried to resize them. Now i don't have any option at all to attach pictures. It'll allow me to take new pictures using the camera on my tablet. It won't let me choose from my photo library at all. I'm confused. I can't figure out where that option went. I'm going to have to dig around and see if I can find some info on here on the forums. I would really like to share some photos of the new chassis and the drive train. I will also share some photos of other things we are working on (such as rebuilding the back door/gate/ramp on our trailer).
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Emil Shuffhausen on March 29, 2015, 12:56:21 AM
An online photo storage account will be a big help. I like Fotki.com. I've been with them for about 14 years and have no complaints.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 29, 2015, 01:01:12 AM
Went to Ohio today to check out the progress on the chassis
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: bearingburner on March 29, 2015, 01:34:55 PM
 I hope you and your chassis builder have rulebooks for constant reference. Hope to see you at Willmington when you give the car a shakedown.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Stan Back on March 29, 2015, 04:13:18 PM
P.M. sent.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: SPARKY on March 29, 2015, 08:24:13 PM
3.T  :?
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: kiwi belly tank on March 29, 2015, 09:01:46 PM
My guess would be your chassis builder builds 1/4 mile stuff due to the large scrub radius & lotsa front end stuff out in the breeze.
You might want to reconsider the Glide & go to an overdrive trans with a lock up converter if it's not too late in the build.
  Sid.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: jdincau on March 29, 2015, 09:43:20 PM
3.T  :?
Sparky is referring to rule book section 3.T. It says you cant use that type of front axle. You need to talk to Lee Kennedy, his contact info is on the SCTA/BNI web site.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: jimmy six on March 29, 2015, 11:58:23 PM
It's unfortunate but jdincau is correct. Even tho you mount it rigid the front needs to have an axle. I believe the rule was rewritten about 15/20 years ago due to failures of "dragster" type front ends. You may get a variance but I'm sure it will need engineering tests. Yours appears very stout but it will need authorization. Good luck and Lee Kennedy notification is a must...
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: SPARKY on March 30, 2015, 01:04:15 AM
"This is going to be a blog/build diary of my families attempt at building a salt-worthy lakester."

What does this mean to you? How about your dad,  especially your dad; if he is the ONE calling the shots! 

"SALT worthy LAKESTER"    To me that means understanding the problem before acting.


Sorry for being so brutal but this is the TYPE  of research you guys need to be doing.

I spent 4 hours in my shop yesterday with a guy who is thinking of coming to B' Ville for the first time. One of his friends had me call him and invite him over---Why?? --because this friend knew I would not sugar coat anything--and that I had made so many mistakes It bothers me to see others make so many ROOKIE MISTAKES and have to go home with out getting to run.

-we discussed all the various classes and I tried to apprise him of what he was up against, the pros and cons and some common mistakes I had seen in each over the last 15 years.

 Then he started at the front of my lakester and asked what the issues were at the front axel, the drivers compartment , the tank bay, the eng. bay the rear axle, the chutes  I think he most likely today has a list of things he thinks he needs to know more about to continue his SALT education before he buys or builds.

GET A RULE BOOK READ IT 10 times---DISCUSS IT  , read the builds of various lakesters and LINERS send private messages or call nearly any of US--- we care we hate to see folks make mistakes especially ROOKIE MISTAKES--- most of which can be avoided. There are lots of folks on Landracing.com that are willing to help---we have made the mistakes you do not have to---its yours for the research-- so that you can ask an informed question.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: javajoe79 on March 30, 2015, 12:41:06 PM
Sparky you are referring to the part of 3T about no unsprung A arm suspension right?  Seems a little like a grey area. Has the method in the pic been specifically banned?   I can see where you might call that an unsprung A arm suspension but you could also say it was just part of the chassis.  It's an idea I was thinking about the other day only not like that picture. I was thinking of an actual A arm setup with a "pushrod" that was solid mounted to the chassis. Aero tubing too. I have definitely read that rule many times but it never clicked with me til now. Glad to learn that.  What were the failures that have been mentioned that led to this rule? Hard to imagine that setup being weaker then a beam axle.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 30, 2015, 01:03:53 PM
Thank you all for your concern. Stuff like this is very helpful to me. If you see any other issues, please bring them to my attention. My father already sent pictures to the chief inspector and he said that we'll be fine. We were aware of the issue. Right now I'm trying to figure out what size water tank to use. I've been looking around on this website and I found a calculation to figure out flow rate. I just need to figure out what size the tank should be. Anybody have a link to something along those lines?
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 30, 2015, 02:52:52 PM
I am going to be a little "butal" here also with respect to your front end construction and comparing it to a car we have all watched being built and has passed SCTA inspection. That car is Sparky's lakester. His front axle is a single large diameter heavy wall tube that locates the wheels quite away from the body of his car, the axle is mounted solid to the frame and has no radius rods. Without doing some calculation I would estimate that your front end design is probably 5-10 times stronger in bending in both the vertical and horizontal direction than Sparky's car. Several years ago a noted drag racing chassis builder came to Bonneville with a really beautifully built rear engine modified roadster, it was a 34 Ford body and it had a front end design very similar to yours except it at first appeard that it used 4130 aircraft aero tubing then in talking with him I found out that he had milled the parts from 4130 bar stock (nice to have a CNC mill!) so they were not tube but solid. He meet with the same resistance you are seeing here but after some conversations with the SCTA (Lee Kennedy) he was allowed to run.  As Jimmy Six said this rule was based upon the way drag race chassis are built and the whole thing should be reconsidered especially when you see a design such as yours that is obviously strong and in many ways superior to a straight axle.

Rex
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Glen on March 30, 2015, 03:38:15 PM
Some years back the new owners of the Kaplan-Carr lakester got the car side ways and the A-arm axle broke off the chassis and the car flipped. This was a one inch dia. 3 piece A axle used by the drag racers at the time. It was determined that the tubing was to small and and not structurally sound for the dry lake surface. The rule at that time banned the A arm type front axle. I don't recall when it was changed but a couple of years ago I saw a A arm suspension with a duel coil over set up and as far as I know they allowed it to run because it was suspended.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 30, 2015, 03:50:26 PM
Our chassis is being built to BNI specifications except where SCTA says differently. (For example, BNI doesn't require a full tub built around the driver, but SCTA does. So we are, of course, putting one in our car). Our chassis is being built by a company that builds 1/4 mile cars, however ours is being built with stronger, bigger, thicker tubing. It will be substantially heavier than a drag car. We provided the company with a rule book and when I visited them on Saturday, I saw that they have been going through the book a lot. They've read it over and over again and they are highlighting all sorts of sections. That tells me that they are taking it very seriously. As far as the front end goes, I am fairly confident that it should be plenty sturdy. I've seen people at Bonneville running with Anglia spindles and the spindles and bearings we are using are much bigger and stronger. We are using spindles that sprint car racers use. And, as I mentioned before, my father has already gotten permission from the chief inspector. He has "given us the go ahead" on our front end. I'm very excited to continue forward on the car. I can't wait to get the chassis/body back from Ohio and get it into the garage. I don't expect to have the car ready for the Ohio Mile in May, but I think there will be another meet in July. I hope to be ready by then. We'll see how she does. Very exciting!
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 30, 2015, 03:59:43 PM
I've got a suggestion, sir.  When you get something in writing/email from an inspector or chief inspector or whomever -- print it out on paper and put it in your log book.  If you don't have a logbook -- you'll be getting one soon, so keep that printout handy and take it with you when you go to Bville.  Sometimes it has been known for said inspector to have forgot what he said, or the person doing the inspection right then has a question - and the guy that wrote it to you is a half-hour away.  Be safe -- print and attach it.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 30, 2015, 04:04:01 PM
My thoughts exactly, Slim.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Stan Back on March 30, 2015, 04:42:36 PM
I'm confused (what's new?).

BNI and SCTA are in the same family (they even have the same mother and father).  In essence, BNI organizes the Bonneville meets for the SCTA and turns them over to the SCTA at the drivers meeting.

Did you mean some other organization?
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: lsrjunkie on March 30, 2015, 04:53:35 PM
Tug, It's hard to tell from the pictures, and I am no expert by any stretch, but your scrub radius looks mighty hefty. Unless you are running front wheels with a bunch of offset.

Thanks to a bunch of guys here, I was able to identify, and rectify, the same issue with my front end.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Frankie7799 on March 30, 2015, 07:48:22 PM
Rex, who was the noted chassis builder that brought the RMR to Bonneville and are you saying an A arm front end is or isnt stronger than a beam axle?
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: jimmy six on March 30, 2015, 08:32:35 PM
Tug.. Thanks for your replies. When you see a triangled front "suspension" on a lakester light bulbs go off. It is obvious yours are part of the frame and very well built. I did notice the spindles and glad they were not light weight. I am glad that you have discussed this with the appropriate officials.

I too agree with getting a log book if you don't have one as yet. I keep all receipts and photos which are needed. Fire bottle recerts are one. Good Luck
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 30, 2015, 08:48:32 PM
Frankie,
The builder was Ron Attebury, C/GRMR no. 7500. I am saying that the set up that the design that "Tugboat" has is much stronger than a straight axle.

Rex
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: NathanStewart on March 30, 2015, 08:51:54 PM
That's not an unsprung a-arm front suspension.  Completely legal.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: Frankie7799 on March 30, 2015, 09:44:53 PM
thanks for the clarification Rex it's been one of those days for me :-D
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: kiwi belly tank on March 30, 2015, 10:58:11 PM
I'm confused (what's new?).

BNI and SCTA are in the same family (they even have the same mother and father).  In essence, BNI organizes the Bonneville meets for the SCTA and turns them over to the SCTA at the drivers meeting.

Did you mean some other organization?
Yep! & there's only one rule book.
  Sid.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: SPARKY on March 31, 2015, 12:30:22 AM
Why would you look at FIA rules with a lakester?
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 31, 2015, 09:04:18 AM
I meant to say SFI. Oops
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on March 31, 2015, 01:53:05 PM
And we are using the SFI rules partially because they are very thorough. Like I was trying to say before (without much success), we are going to defer to rules for Bonneville any time there is a difference. We are trying to do our best to build a safe vehicle that will get through tech inspection without trouble.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: dw230 on March 31, 2015, 02:44:18 PM
Not to be the nit picker - but, SFI is a list of specification that are used by racing organizations who pay for the use. The SCTA-BNI is a SFI member which uses certain SFI specs which are called out in the rule book.

Good luck,
DW
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on August 13, 2015, 07:51:15 PM
It looks like we will be debuting the car in Wilmington, Ohio this September. Wish us luck! I sure hope everything is ready! Too bad about Bonneville this year.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on August 12, 2016, 06:18:10 PM
Car is finally done. It's on the trailer and heading for wendover. I'll add some photos soon. It took a long time, but it is finished and looks great. Thanks to my dad, Mike Sturley. Other people who made it happen are: Duane Cole, Gabe sturley, Dave Wise, and my mom Judy Sturley. Come check it out in the pits. We'll be there Monday.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on August 12, 2016, 07:16:41 PM
My sister & my father at the Ohio Mile
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on August 12, 2016, 07:18:53 PM
My father, Mike, working on the car.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: tauruck on August 12, 2016, 10:54:35 PM
Go well TugBoat.
It looks cool. :cheers: :cheers:
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: floydjer on August 18, 2016, 08:53:48 AM
Hey neighbor....Good looking car. :cheers:
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: SPARKY on August 20, 2016, 12:41:55 PM
TB   an up date sir---glad to meet you on the salt
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on August 26, 2016, 04:25:16 AM
Whoa! sparky! I'm confused. Did I meet you on the salt? Were you one of the tech inspector guys? If so, you guys inspected every inch of the car, but you were nice guys. Thanks for everything. I'll be posting pictures from Speedweek soon.
  -
  -

Thanks to everybody who supported us. Thanks especially to the owner and main driver of the car, my father, Mike. You pulled it off dad. Thanks for everything. I'm super proud of you. Let's have another great time next year!
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: SPARKY on August 26, 2016, 09:28:01 AM
I thought you  said hello in the rookie lines--we were there through Tue---

I know lots and lots of faces when ones attention is on the car and task at hand
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on May 04, 2017, 04:58:17 AM
Pictures from speed week 2016
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on May 04, 2017, 05:02:26 AM
Speed week 2016. My father, mike, helping me get ready.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on May 04, 2017, 05:05:58 AM
My brother, Gabe, helping me get strapped in.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on May 04, 2017, 05:07:33 AM
Gabe pushing me after a run.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on May 04, 2017, 05:09:09 AM
Me (Chris) after a run.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on May 04, 2017, 05:18:43 AM
I'll try to get more pictures up soon. We have done a lot of work to make sure the car is in racing condition. She was brand new last year. 2017 will be her sophomore year. As a D class gas lakester, we have a long way to go. I think we will push over 200 MPH this year if things go the way we want them to. We think the car could go much faster than 200. If anybody has any questions or wants to see specific pictures, please ask through a private message. Thanks. Hopefully there will be many more pictures to come. I hope to find some of my pictures of the process of changing a few small things on the car. I want pictures on here that show the car in its never-ending state of being tweaked/changed/upgraded/perfected/etc. Thanks for checking us out.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on August 11, 2017, 10:33:32 PM
Well, the car is on the salt. It passed right through tech inspection without any problems Thursday. Some of the guys (My brother Gabe, my father Mike, and two friends John and Dave) are out there already. I'll be heading out there with the rest of the group Monday. Feel free to come find us in the pits and say hello. Car #409 Blue Goose Racing.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on August 16, 2017, 09:14:25 PM
Speed Week 2017 is waning. It's Wednesday and the tracks shut down about 10 minutes ago. I managed to get the car just over 163 on the short track. Mike Gabe and Dave are going to try to push towards the 175 mark tomorrow, and then the Blue Goose will make its journey back to Lansing Mi. This has been a fun week so far.
Title: Re: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan
Post by: TugBoat123 on August 16, 2017, 09:20:12 PM
Speed Week 2017 is waning and I am thoroughly sunburned. It's Wednesday and the tracks shut down about 10 minutes ago. I managed to get the car just over 163 on the short track. Mike Gabe and Dave are going to try to push towards the 175 mark tomorrow, and then the Blue Goose will make its journey back to Lansing Mi. This has been a fun week so far.