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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: mergatroyd on March 23, 2015, 11:38:07 PM

Title: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on March 23, 2015, 11:38:07 PM
Well...

I find myself as team captain, chief builder, chief tuner, and chief know-it-all this year.  :mrgreen:

I've got the 749R from 2013, and the piston-supercharged single from last year that I didn't talk about.  I was at WOS and got lots of strange looks.

Looks like MPS-F 750 and M-BF 500 as classes.

Mostly fairing work on the 750, and tuning for methanol.

Rebuild the blower head for the 500, and tune it for methanol.  Oh, and re-design the entire intake tract...  :-P
(http://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/s480x480/10251930_474843985997770_5066119163609555742_n.jpg?oh=568ba268f43a4f65b4397a583ffd3c49&oe=557B0797)

When I know what I am doing, I'll probably be dead.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on March 25, 2015, 11:36:54 PM
This is us at WOS last year...
(https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10629314_385577098257793_438320355475778795_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Grandpa Jones on March 26, 2015, 07:14:02 PM
Cool! I dig singles, any more pics of the compressor set-up?

Cheers, Dave
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on March 26, 2015, 11:40:59 PM
From the other side:
(http://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/10661713_385577338257769_9019063780132263698_o.jpg)

During "test and tune"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiJ3FutBPn4

The crew chief ran over the camera right after the fuel truck, so we only have a few cell phone snaps and some pics new friends on the salt took.
(http://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1908396_1484758305127250_8164201492213623735_n.jpg?oh=c26ab0fe61a7ad974c06e4f01b54eba4&oe=557354CF)

That's a home-cast blower head on a formerly twin-combustion 1000 engine.  Two-stroke reed valve assemblies to make the blower head work.  It's a Rube Goldberg contraption with about as much engineering as you'd expect from a home builder with a degree in underwater basket-weaving.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on March 27, 2015, 12:35:23 AM
But, not too bad overall
(http://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/10648216_385577314924438_2985985939904204408_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 30, 2015, 03:51:50 PM
What is the displacement difference between the compressor side and the engine side? Do you run a reed valve on both the intake port and the outlet port of the compressor? If they are both the same displacement I would guess that you should be getting about a 2 to 1 ratio of compressor to engine which would be about a 1 bar inlet pressure. Do you run any type of volume chamber to try to attenuate the pressure spikes from the compressor section? Interesting project.

Rex
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on March 30, 2015, 04:13:59 PM
What is the displacement difference between the compressor side and the engine side? Do you run a reed valve on both the intake port and the outlet port of the compressor?

Rex
Thanks for the interest!

They are the same displacement.  The first blower head was capable of quite a bit of boost, but some serious inefficiency meant it generated a lot of heat really fast.  The new design and new fuel will hopefully mitigate some of that.

I run reed valves on both sides.  It doesn't seem to work as well if there isn't something to keep the compressed charge out of the compressor... which is probably why we got slower and slower throughout the meet.  Somewhere along the way the outlet reed gave up the ghost.

I don't have a calculated plenum volume, just a distance from the outlet to the intake valve.  I ran a blow-off valve as a pressure relief device because I was worried I might overwhelm the MAP sensor on the ECU.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 30, 2015, 05:12:24 PM
My only thinking about running some sort of plenum was to have additional volume to reduce the pressure fluctuation at the engine inlet and also to your MAP sensor. Have you ever looked at the MAP while the engine was running? I would guess that you could be generating some heat as your compressor side is not very efficient. Put a jacket around the compressor cylinder and outlet and fill it full of ice. You say you changed fuel, alcohol?

Rex
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on March 30, 2015, 07:30:11 PM
Yep, switching to methanol this year.  The learning curve on event gas was... enlightening.  I'd rather work with something I can source locally, and the other benefits are multiple.

The map sensor didn't show extreme fluctuations, and it reads right at the head for the working cylinder.  The working cylinder may not have liked it, but I couldn't tell with all the other learning opportunities.  :-D The outlet for the compressor opened into 2.5 inch ID silicon, aluminum pipe (maybe about a foot? 8-12 inches), then necked down to maybe 45mm ID from the throttle body on (~6-8 inches).  But a compelling case for a small intercooler.

With the compromise on top of compromise, I don't think an ice water jacket could have helped that compressor head.  Imagine everything you could do wrong given those design parameters... also the first thing I'd ever made out of liquid metal...
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 31, 2015, 02:04:05 PM
You said: " first thing I'd ever made out of liquid metal.." did you cast the head yourself? from aluminum? Any pics of the head itself?

Rex
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on March 31, 2015, 03:46:50 PM
Yes on casting myself (with a little assistance) out of aluminum.

I used a lost foam process, and quickly learned a lot of things not to do.  I don't have any pictures that show it off the bike.

It looks pretty much like you'd expect on the inside, with a "Y" shaped passage to the piston working area.  The rectangle on top houses the two-stroke reed valve assemblies, with a third one sacrificed to make a spacer on the inlet side...

I probably should have started over after the first attempt... but I'm a stubborn one.  :-D 

Litany of learning points:
Risers are important
The pouring path must be thicker than the thickest part of the piece
Styrofoam is the wrong kind of foam (two reasons: the nasty stuff it releases when burned and the terrible surface texture it leaves)
Can't fix a giant inclusion by pouring more metal on top of it
Can't fix a giant inclusion with the jelly-stuff that plugs holes in engine blocks
Cutting a long slice of aluminum with a hacksaw is tedious
Water bonded sand doesn't work outside in the high desert in the summer (hence lost foam process after 17 failed attempts at making molds)
Not enough sand on top will let the casting bulge
Cylinder stud "locator dimples" don't stay lined up in a lost foam casting
Don't wait until June to try a new skill necessary for the plan to go racing in August

I probably forgot several things in there, but all that should give you the idea. 


Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 31, 2015, 04:33:02 PM
If nothing else you are certainly tenacious! An important thing in Salt racing.
As "they" say: When you learn by experience the test comes first and the lesson come afterward!

Rex
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Koncretekid on March 31, 2015, 07:40:22 PM
I remember seeing a Harley at Loring that was set up as yours.  I don't know the name of the owner, but Jesse over on the LTA site (actually rebuilding Joe Daley's old bike right now) will probably know something of this bike as the owner was/is still active at Loring.  Might have some insights for you.
Tom

Jesse's build is right here: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,14392.0.html
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on March 31, 2015, 10:51:48 PM
As "they" say: When you learn by experience the test comes first and the lesson come afterward!

Rex

Tell me about it!  I would say it's good for me and builds character, but my wife says I am already too much of a character.

I remember seeing a Harley at Loring that was set up as yours.  I don't know the name of the owner, but Jesse over on the LTA site (actually rebuilding Joe Daley's old bike right now) will probably know something of this bike as the owner was/is still active at Loring.  Might have some insights for you.
Tom

Jesse's build is right here: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,14392.0.html

Thanks!
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: tauruck on March 31, 2015, 11:00:42 PM
Awesome thread mergatroyd. I really like the post on casting. :cheers:

Regards, Mike.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on March 31, 2015, 11:16:11 PM
Awesome thread mergatroyd. I really like the post on casting. :cheers:

Regards, Mike.

Thanks!

I've been learning (as in reading, not tried yet) some fiberglass tricks from you and sofadriver that I'll likely put into practice on the other bike.  Pics of it after I can jigger it around the metric ton of stuff hiding in that container.  It needs to come out anyway so I can see in daylight how badly those fairing mods ended up.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: tauruck on March 31, 2015, 11:18:15 PM
If I can help in any way I'm in.

God Bless and good luck.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: sofadriver on April 01, 2015, 12:03:21 AM
Hey, Quenten!  Don't know if you remember me from Speedweek 2 years ago and the Monster forum.  Looks like you got bit by the salt bug, too!  I thought I was thinking outside the box but you're waaaay outside!  Very, very cool!   :cheers:
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Jessechop on April 01, 2015, 04:36:55 AM
The bike at Loring is one of the Frink's. Harley engine, rear cylinder is the super charger. I will do some digging around tonight and see what I can find for pictures. I think his is shovel based
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Jessechop on April 04, 2015, 09:53:16 PM
This is the only picture I have of the bike. I thought I had more. Looks like top speed has been 93.453

Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on April 04, 2015, 10:28:03 PM
This is the only picture I have of the bike. I thought I had more. Looks like top speed has been 93.453


Very cool!  Thanks for the pic!

Loring is a timed mile, standing start?
Title: Re:
Post by: Frank06 on April 05, 2015, 06:57:42 AM
Speeds are timed at both 1.0 and 1.5 miles.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on April 08, 2015, 11:22:43 PM
A bunch of stuff showed up today, and I ordered what are supposed to be the proper injectors for my poison-infused plans.

Time will tell how well I have planned to integrate/invent stuff I could have learned more easily with an apprenticeship to a race team...
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on April 17, 2015, 11:43:46 PM
So, my high flow injectors showed up, and are a 75% solution to what I wanted.

I know, I know, want in one hand...  :dhorse:

So we'll have to be making/buying some bits to fit them in something that resembles a useful location.  Packaging, packaging, packaging.

On a packaging note, I think I have avoided having to re-package the air intakes and cooling system!  Bonus!

I should have some more pics this weekend...
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: fordboy628 on April 18, 2015, 07:35:51 AM

So we'll have to be making/buying some bits to fit them in something that resembles a useful location.  Packaging, packaging, packaging.


When Keith Duckworth was complemented about the compactness and accessory integration on the then new DFV F1 engine, his reply was: "Packaging is everything."
 :cheers:
Fordboy
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on April 22, 2015, 12:40:32 AM
Both bikes.  It looks like nothing has changed, but trust me, there's progress.

And the fairing has been approved...
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on May 19, 2015, 06:37:57 PM
A long overdue update:

Injectors packaged and installed... no pictures, because I am across the country.

I will be coming to the salt this year with an incomplete aero package.  That's okay, because the rider isn't licensed for record speed yet, and I still haven't fired it up and cured the mystery rev limiter.

For this latest metal-casting experiment, I decided to try to make a lost foam investment....

Add to the list of things I have now learned:
If you need to make a relatively large investment, you need a mechanized mixing apparatus.  My plaster/sand/water mix got very lumpy before I finished mixing it and refused to suck in any more water.

I have that bike in to get an exhaust made... I don't have CNC tube-cutting machinery at home and required angles/tolerances were not conducive to cutting bent tubing by ear.

Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on June 08, 2015, 12:57:36 PM
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k519/mergatroyd/Team%20Unorthodux/KIMG0068%20-%20Copy_zpsblbedr7y.jpg) (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/mergatroyd/media/Team%20Unorthodux/KIMG0068%20-%20Copy_zpsblbedr7y.jpg.html)
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k519/mergatroyd/Team%20Unorthodux/KIMG0063_zpse5ggzmw3.jpg) (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/mergatroyd/media/Team%20Unorthodux/KIMG0063_zpse5ggzmw3.jpg.html)
Fuel tank and exhaust for the 500 single.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on June 20, 2015, 09:16:25 PM
Link to a video my brother took of the first loud noises we've made this season:
https://www.facebook.com/grant.fuller.56/videos/10204694142338129/

Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on June 21, 2015, 10:15:36 PM
Methanol is good, but it killed the fuel pump.

Add to that the discovery of more work needed in injector packaging.

packaging, packaging, packaging. :dhorse:

But we did get the new blower head cast today.  It's off to the lathe for gussying/finishing.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on June 29, 2015, 11:59:27 PM
The o-rings in the quick-disconnects are not methanol compatible...  :dhorse: They swell up and clog the line.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: fordboy628 on June 30, 2015, 07:15:57 AM
Yeah, that's the bitch about fluid transfer/containment.

Seals for oil not compatible with gas, not compatible with fuel, not compatible with alcohols, etc, etc.

And it is a time consuming PITA to research compatible seals/O-rings, find them, buy them (da** some are expensive . .   :cry: ) and then install them . . . . .   :roll:

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Mobacken Racing on June 30, 2015, 07:19:05 AM
I really like the home cast cylinder head idea, the picture won´t show for me though. Any chance you might post it again?
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 01, 2015, 09:41:46 AM
I really like the home cast cylinder head idea, the picture won´t show for me though. Any chance you might post it again?
Sure.

It will look different this year once machining is complete.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: firemanjim on July 02, 2015, 04:59:13 PM
Mystery rev-limiter huh? Do not know on Ducs but quite a few injected bikes I have worked on had a clutch switch for starting that,if bypassed, put bike in a "neutral map" with less timing and lower rev-limit. And our GSXR 750 one year developed a low limit that turned out to be a bad cam sensor. Needed it to start but not run so put a switch on it.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 02, 2015, 08:49:24 PM
Mystery rev-limiter huh? Do not know on Ducs but quite a few injected bikes I have worked on had a clutch switch for starting that,if bypassed, put bike in a "neutral map" with less timing and lower rev-limit. And our GSXR 750 one year developed a low limit that turned out to be a bad cam sensor. Needed it to start but not run so put a switch on it.
This one runs off a microsquirt... I think I know which setting is misconfigured, but I have to catch up on a few other things first.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 13, 2015, 12:08:33 AM
Like the freaking wiring.

New fuel pump, s-can the quick disconnects, no more than 20 psi of fuel pressure.  Oh look, the wiring has had been had at by chaos... grrr... too many wires....

 :dhorse:

This horse will ride.

Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 17, 2015, 12:14:37 AM
Still have a few issues to sort, but this is the 749R.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX66gA62h6A
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on January 23, 2016, 11:19:37 PM
Poorly mocked up, but this is the current bodywork plan.
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k519/mergatroyd/Ducs/DSCF0654_zpscmd2rfxv.jpg) (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/mergatroyd/media/Ducs/DSCF0654_zpscmd2rfxv.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on February 15, 2016, 12:12:32 AM
Oh, it turns out I should have drained the water before it got solidly below freezing.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Polyhead on February 15, 2016, 12:54:41 AM
Oh, it turns out I should have drained the water before it got solidly below freezing.

:/  how bad is it?
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on February 15, 2016, 12:57:35 AM
JB weld should fix it, but eBay turned up a replacement for not too much scratch.  As long as it is the right diameter, shouldn't be a problem.

Ducati stuff is funny.  I bought an ostensible set of pistons and jugs that were 4mm short in diameter.   :x
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: DaveB on February 15, 2016, 09:44:38 AM
Those are neat projects. Taking on a project like a self made piston supercharged bike is commendable.

I thought I would throw out some ideas about the piston supercharged bike although it is apparent you have put a lot of though into this project.

If you have not already done so, you may consider making timing charts of the engine process. These are helpful for almost any process especially ones that involve gas flow. They do not need to be overly technical or even include hard data (like pressures) that are difficult to determine.

The way I would do it is just make a line from left to right on paper that is chronological. Mark on the line each pistons TDC and BDC with sufficient distance between these events to add more stuff. The two pistons event's are placed in the correct order on the same line but labeled power piston (PP) and compressor piston (CP). Or you could give each cylinder its own line one above the other. Then on the line fill in all the valve open and closing events including your guesstimates for the reed valves. For a 90 degree V twin with both rods on the same throw, the two cylinders are 90 degrees in crank rotation apart in their cycles. The attached image is an example for a simple single cylinder 4 stroke. http://www.tuks.nl/WFCProject/Les_Banki_Project/img/4_stroke_engine_timing_cycle.png

Below this line I would try to make another time line that guesstimated each cylinders pressure as it goes thru the four strokes. This chart may give you an indication of the actual pressure of the power piston chamber when the intake valve closes but before the piston comes up and further compasses the gas. Obviously you want it above atmospheric. You of coarse have the excellent advantage of the power piston is operating as a 4 stroke and the compressor piston is acting as a 2 stroke so the whole process shows significant pressure benefits.

One potential trap I see in a process like this engine is generating higher pressures in the compressor cylinder, that do not get  transferred to the power piston. This could use energy to compress, that is wasted. Also the volume of any transfer runners must be considered. The overtemp problem got me thinking about this.

Due to your familiarity with your creation this exercise may be unneeded because you already have your mind wrapped around the process. For me visual representations almost always help.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on February 15, 2016, 01:40:42 PM
Those are neat projects. Taking on a project like a self made piston supercharged bike is commendable.

I thought I would throw out some ideas about the piston supercharged bike although it is apparent you have put a lot of though into this project.

If you have not already done so, you may consider making timing charts of the engine process. These are helpful for almost any process especially ones that involve gas flow. They do not need to be overly technical or even include hard data (like pressures) that are difficult to determine.

The way I would do it is just make a line from left to right on paper that is chronological. Mark on the line each pistons TDC and BDC with sufficient distance between these events to add more stuff. The two pistons event's are placed in the correct order on the same line but labeled power piston (PP) and compressor piston (CP). Or you could give each cylinder its own line one above the other. Then on the line fill in all the valve open and closing events including your guesstimates for the reed valves. For a 90 degree V twin with both rods on the same throw, the two cylinders are 90 degrees in crank rotation apart in their cycles. The attached image is an example for a simple single cylinder 4 stroke. http://www.tuks.nl/WFCProject/Les_Banki_Project/img/4_stroke_engine_timing_cycle.png

Below this line I would try to make another time line that guesstimated each cylinders pressure as it goes thru the four strokes. This chart may give you an indication of the actual pressure of the power piston chamber when the intake valve closes but before the piston comes up and further compasses the gas. Obviously you want it above atmospheric. You of coarse have the excellent advantage of the power piston is operating as a 4 stroke and the compressor piston is acting as a 2 stroke so the whole process shows significant pressure benefits.

One potential trap I see in a process like this engine is generating higher pressures in the compressor cylinder, that do not get  transferred to the power piston. This could use energy to compress, that is wasted. Also the volume of any transfer runners must be considered. The overtemp problem got me thinking about this.

Due to your familiarity with your creation this exercise may be unneeded because you already have your mind wrapped around the process. For me visual representations almost always help.
I appreciate the interest.

I think I see what you are saying... but the limitations of the current equipment make that largely a guessing game:

The 2 valve Ducati cams have a relatively large amount of overlap... packaging is currently the problem on the exhaust length... I think it is right, but tuned length should mean something.  Very different now as compared to 2014 when all the pictures are from.

The compressor "plenum" has a variable diameter down through the intake valve.

The CP isn't really compressing in the piston, it is compressing in the plenum.  This doesn't seem to matter after the first few seconds of running.

Even with a terrible CP head and a broken "exhaust" reed valve, it made a consistent 25+ psi and ran 84 mph on pump gas.  I'm hoping "better" design of the air path in the CP head will alleviate some of the temperature-generating effects... plus a switch to methanol for fuel to help cool the charge and add that alky smell to the ambiance.  :-D

Design changes:
CP air path was a Y shape.  "Lots" of unswept volume.
CP air path was terribly unsmooth.  In fact so unsmooth as to not qualify as smooth compared to the surface of the moon.  Hard to access with any kind of tool to make smoother.
Throttle plate after CP broke the "exhaust" reed valve.

New air path "insists" that air enter the swept volume.  "Significantly" (unmeasured) less unswept volume.
New air path is "smooth" and accessible to make smoother.
Move the throttle plate forward of the intake for the CP.

Theoretically I am doing this all wrong anyway... I should have just blanked off a cylinder and run a turbo.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on May 14, 2016, 08:43:43 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cGkGHwQVUrI/VzfPvwwdK9I/AAAAAAAAAfc/mU_b5xcLXgwtrRh1XeUDXXw-hppjdrq6A/w426-h320/16%2B-%2B1)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WqAv575RbNg/VzfP4vEdTCI/AAAAAAAAAfg/LBvKFHZfhps9sefP4WfbjD4KwT3H4Xb5w/w426-h568/16%2B-%2B1)

The team is a total of 2 this year, so only one bike. Entry is in.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on June 26, 2016, 12:01:22 PM
As proof that I am still working on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsHPVvfSl04

The cylinder head nuts were too rusted to take apart, so Ceramic Seal to the rescue. Prior to this test run, I spent a day cleaning the fuel system because I left alky in there. Lesson learned.

Part of the reason it kept cutting out had to do with the fuel pump being flaky... Replaced that with an external one, but now I am waiting on more fuel to get to the store.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 24, 2016, 11:00:29 PM
Start with this:
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tyalg5V_jyU/V5WMw7Iqc1I/AAAAAAAAALk/l2CnUyH2Wa8wdph6xQCh0UkIzcgw3cNBgCL0B/w629-h354-no/DSCF0693.JPG)
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IKXxVIeYc_Y/V5WMwYi8evI/AAAAAAAAALg/WZdqW189AE0du7UJ_co76nb4IhkhkF_yQCL0B/w629-h354-no/DSCF0694.JPG)

Butcher this:
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-de1CBzhfdJs/V5WMw_hdOFI/AAAAAAAAALo/m2URaMdoBQITzmP6Q5U2CyiFijpQs63hACL0B/w629-h354-no/DSCF0695.JPG)

Build this:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EGKo76jH3iI/V5WM8sjzggI/AAAAAAAAALs/afm5Tl2Wia8dMic5C910E9zyk40EGjmuwCL0B/w295-h524-no/DSCF0696.JPG)

Do a lot of this:
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YlmU5XCphqs/V5WM-DneYCI/AAAAAAAAALw/5V3Vp7IiF506bfKoPMEAHw2Pcw3NwXdZQCL0B/w629-h354-no/DSCF0697.JPG)

End of the weekend:
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jzJno3CFGUU/V5WM-DK264I/AAAAAAAAAL0/Euaqld7GL7UAWD6usZf6uGQNRPYHkzMLACL0B/w629-h354-no/DSCF0698.JPG)
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 07, 2016, 12:57:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6of2eNBQSFU

Not the LSR bike, but the test of the test bed. I cut out the parts where you get to ogle my Acura. :D
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Koncretekid on August 07, 2016, 05:52:47 AM
So what is the next step? 

If you could fit a good brake to the trailer axle, probably a disc brake, with the brake stay connected to an appropriate sized load cell, you could make it into a dyno.  Just connect the master cylinder on the bike to the brake cylinder to add the necessary drag.  I think Brent DeStoop (sp.?) did something like that down in Australia, but I can't find the photo. There would be lots of heat to deal with, but a Nascar type brake blower might allow short blasts.

Tom
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 07, 2016, 10:17:43 AM
That is the end goal. For now I am going to use it as is. The race bike can be data-logged from the ECU if the laptop is plugged in. It has an EGT probe, too.

Electric drum brake with controller, probably have to add a helper with a spray bottle to mist the drum. Still working out operating procedures... in the video, I couldn't see the controller display, so I had no idea what was going on.

build pics here https://plus.google.com/b/101563515072989515797/photos/101563515072989515797/albums/6311105215895933105
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 08, 2016, 10:49:12 PM
Aaand, it will be following us to Bonneville... the ECU blew while getting prepped for some troubleshooting runs. Shouldn't run the bike off a battery charger, and should put a smaller fuse in place.

New ECU scheduled to be here on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: tauruck on August 09, 2016, 09:41:21 AM
Very cool idea. I love it. Way to go!!!!. :cheers:
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 10, 2016, 11:19:07 PM
Thanks!

The mailman is adding time on the wrong side of travel...
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 13, 2016, 12:30:34 AM
And now the coils (race virgins, BTW) decide they are done.  :dhorse:

Not to worry, we have not yet begun to fight...
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 23, 2016, 11:08:03 PM
The battle was barely engaged over the week.

Things broke, parts were late, tuning was a joke, more parts broke... we made four attempts at decent runs. Nothing worth going past the 1 mile marker. It just wasn't running right.

I guess next year is the charm for this bike.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on October 30, 2016, 12:57:32 AM
I borrowed the fuel pump for a different project, and behold! It doesn't work anymore.

New fuel tank is on the list for this year... something made out of steel.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: tauruck on October 30, 2016, 05:07:26 AM
Bummer man. What was the other tank built from?.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on November 08, 2016, 09:23:01 PM
Aluminum plate which isn't too bad... the problem is the attempt to re-use a piece of Ducati cast aluminum as the fuel pump flange. The fuel pump and regulator started out inside the tank, which was fine when it was running on gasoline with the plan to use nitrous. The Ducati piece grows horrible black/grey fuzz overnight. The plate tends to show a little discoloration, but not like the cast piece.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 06, 2017, 08:57:06 AM
So, how goes it Q?

Any news?
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 25, 2018, 02:05:41 AM
It's been a minute since the last update.

I discovered a day or so before Speed Week 2018 that the mystery rev-limiter was due to a missing resistor.

Fresh fuel tank made of steel, no problems other than killing MSD corvette coils like they were going out of style.

No records, but we bumped our personal best by nearly 15mph to 145 and change. I had enough time to look at other M-class bikes and learn some things about "aero" in a non-streamlined class. That was nice.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Ron Gibson on August 25, 2018, 09:37:52 AM
Just out of curiosity, how were you killing coils?

Ron
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 25, 2018, 11:17:13 AM
I've discovered several ways to kill a coil over the years. This latest batch of MSD coils came from a long ago set that was recalled and replaced. According to lore, they are sensitive to heat and high RPM.

Older dead ones had to do with an improper setting in the ECU. That setting kills them almost instantly.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 12, 2019, 09:32:03 PM
So, this year we are back to Ducati coils.

And a funny front end:
(https://i.postimg.cc/tRVQCWjH/image.jpg[)
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: dw230 on July 13, 2019, 01:45:22 PM
There appears to be no bolt in the lower shock mount. That may help somewhat.

DW
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 13, 2019, 10:16:58 PM
There appears to be no bolt in the lower shock mount. That may help somewhat.

DW
therifixedit
(https://i.postimg.cc/vB8xJSGL/image.jpg)

It's welded up, too. It's too dark out to take pictures.

But the wife is out of town, so you get a bonus:
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvWRgcvK/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the fifth year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 14, 2019, 09:30:28 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/hj3YmKW5/image.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vTgNLCGH/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 18, 2019, 08:20:09 PM
Huh. It seems most here aren't shy about opinions, but not now. I'm currently treating this thing as a roll cage, where I don't get to grind the welds.

It's MiG, hence the light boogers.

Am I over thinking this?
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Peter Jack on July 19, 2019, 09:28:02 AM
PM sent.

Pete
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Stainless1 on July 19, 2019, 09:43:09 AM
I suspect they may want to see some type of NDI inspection report on the welds....   :?
If they break it might get ugly  :cheers:
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Rex Schimmer on July 19, 2019, 03:25:29 PM
Either do much more practice with the MIG or spend some money and have qualified welder TIG weld it. This is potentially your life here. Quality welding is worth any expense in this case. My guess is that the SCTA would not let you run it welded as you have shown. I know I would not.

Rex
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Stan Back on July 19, 2019, 04:51:58 PM
I found out that I was a shitty welder.  Back when I did it all the time, I worked up to poor.  Now I still design and fabricate and fit things just right ? and let a real welder do the rest.  I put in the most hours on my "half".  You'd be surprised how fast a real welder can do a job when he's just welding.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: desotoman on July 19, 2019, 05:32:12 PM
PM sent.

Pete

Please take Pete's advice.

Tom G.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Peter Jack on July 19, 2019, 05:48:11 PM
Thanks Tom!  :-D :-D :-D

Pete
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Bookfla on July 19, 2019, 06:52:44 PM
Can I ask a stupid question like what is wrong with a standard fork designed by experts? Sems your new one would have reduced aero as well as the other comments on safety.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 19, 2019, 11:24:36 PM
PM sent.

Pete

Please take Pete's advice.

Tom G.
As fast as I can understand and apply it!

And many thanks to Pete, too!

Stainless, Rex, Stan, those are wise words to someone who looks like they are about to hurt themselves. Thanks!

Can I ask a stupid question like what is wrong with a standard fork designed by experts? Sems your new one would have reduced aero as well as the other comments on safety.
TLDR: "Because."

Long story:
Lots of things are wrong with telescopic forks from an expert perspective (of which I am not one, but where I look to Tony Foale as the most experienced experimenter with funny front ends).

For me, I'm getting 2.5 inches of added lowness with no apparent adverse effects to handling and no increase to wheelbase. As I understood from a discussion on aero for motorcycles around here somewhere, the area around the front tire is a hot mess from an aero perspective anyway (and somebody posted a fancy CFD picture to prove it). Besides, all that stuff should be under the fender.

As I have understood the above commentary on safety, most of it was addressing my obviously untutored welding (the short answer is, I was doing it wrong). The sage folks here have no end of good advice, and I'm willing to accept plenty of it directly and indirectly through reading the posts from the past. That's kind of why I hang around here.

Another concern that might be raised is trail... I'll measure for real when I have a helper to hold the bike for me, but it should still be at least 4 inches.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on July 28, 2019, 10:58:41 PM
Took some seriously expert advice, practiced, and the welds no longer look like 3 week old dog feces.

Thanks, Pete!

Got the electrickery mounting figured out. Now I just need to finish wiring mods and paint some things to keep the worst of the rust away.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: mergatroyd on August 11, 2019, 05:46:21 PM
Passed tech, largely thanks to Peter Jack's advice.
Title: Re: Team Unorthodux, the third year
Post by: Peter Jack on August 11, 2019, 07:58:06 PM
That's great news Mergatroyd. I had faith.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete