Landracing Forum

Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: hotrod on September 11, 2014, 11:44:16 AM

Title: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: hotrod on September 11, 2014, 11:44:16 AM
 

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/queens-university-engineers-bid-to-emulate-1967-land-speed-record-of-worlds-fastest-indian-30567907.html

Quote
Now a team from Belfast is hoping to break his 1967 record and take their specially designed vehicle to the same location next August with a target of 230-250mph.

I wonder if they realize that the motor cycle classes have changed since 1967 and they cannot run against that record?
As I understand it the motorcycle classification that Burt Monroe ran in no longer exists.

Although I applaud the effort to encourage engineering students and to provide a focal point for achievement this sounds like an effort that has a learning curve to progress through.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: TrickyDicky on September 11, 2014, 11:55:09 AM
From another thread:

Quote
Hi Guys,

My name is Sam Marsden and I am a member of Project Velocity which is a student Team based in Ireland.
As you can guess from me posting on this forum, my team and I are attempting to break a land speed record. The one we're going after is Burt Munro's.

I have been out to the salt flats and met a lot of people, all great guys and it's a great community.  If you want to know more about our project and see some of our designs, follow these links

http://projectvelocity-bonneville.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Project-Velocity/405910939554934
https://twitter.com/Pro_VELOCITY

Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: superleggera on September 11, 2014, 12:49:48 PM
my strongest suggestion for them in regard to Burt's record is to go make a run against the record. Go to impound if they qualify. Run the next day and if they potentially break the record -- go to impound and tell them you decline inspection and state the reason why: "leave the old man's name in the record book -- we did what we set out to prove and there is more honor in walking away then changing the inspiration for many".

They will get more media publicity and respect for doing that then in ever breaking Burt's record.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Freud on September 11, 2014, 01:00:09 PM
super................You completely understand. THANK YOU.

Of course if they want to follow thru with their project they

need to start with a 1920 Indian engine.

FREUD
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: BHR301 on September 11, 2014, 02:49:12 PM
FREUD
 If they start with a 1920 Indian engine wouldn't they fall under VINTAGE rules?   :cheers:

Bill
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: mbuk on September 11, 2014, 03:21:00 PM
Looking at the rule book Burt class 1000cc SF still exists. So i can't see why they can't run against that record. But should they, in my opinion no.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: tortoise on September 11, 2014, 03:34:21 PM
Do you think Munro would want it that way?
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: panic on September 11, 2014, 03:42:27 PM
What part of that project has anything to do with Munro?
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: debgeo on September 11, 2014, 03:46:46 PM
He holds the record they are going after.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Freud on September 11, 2014, 04:42:58 PM
Is there any doubt that today's technology exceeds what he had?

Is that a true challenge to his performance?

Join the current world and find a different class.

We would expect today's soldiers to defeat  the best Civil War soldiers.

Maybe I am wrong. They may be using a forge and anvil to make their

connecting rods and a hole in the dirt to cast the pistons.

Is there a lemon tree next to their shop?

FREUD

Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: BHR301 on September 11, 2014, 05:08:47 PM
Remember, no one owns a record...they are just on loan. Is it time to loan it to someone else?
I am wondering if the only reason this record stayed in the books so long is that there were very few 1000cc fuel streamliners ever built..maybe it's time.

Bill
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: 55chevr on September 11, 2014, 05:46:03 PM
No one owns a record.  Should this project bike break the "Haunted Burt Munro Record" it doesn't diminish Burt's achievement. 
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: mbuk on September 11, 2014, 05:55:40 PM
Interesting opinions on this. I think the records give us a clue

250 SF 198mph
350 SF 210mph
500 SF 230mph
750 SF 240mph
1000 SF 183mph (Burt)
1350 SF 294mph

Records are there to be broken. But it looks like very few people want to brake this one.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Stan Back on September 11, 2014, 06:08:19 PM
Looks like the 350, 500 and 750 could brake to break it.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: joea on September 11, 2014, 06:16:32 PM
Burts place in history is NOT defined by that record....

Don Vesco's impact on everyone will never be "emulated" anymore than some kids
could "emulate" Burts accomplishment

memories are forever....

should anyone have run on the Summers Bros record...?...absolutely

memories and history are meant to be carried on...

records are meant to be pushed and sought after

hopefully someone puts the number up with respect toward Burts legacy, and NOT make it about some glory
of breaking a record that stood since 1967...

i would love it, if they indeed tried to "emulate" Burt's record, we all know its not remotely likely to happen as Burt did it

the Project Velocity site mentions  ""Just like Munro, we are limited by the resources available to us....""

WOW, world CLASS HILARIOUS........

UH NO..unlike Munro...you have a team of people....which can pale in comparison to one individual as driven as he was...
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: lsrjunkie on September 11, 2014, 06:31:57 PM
I believe that is the name of the game. Many records set by many great men have already been broken with not much concern given. Eyston, Campbell, Cobb, Jenkins... Just a few names that come to mind.

What Burt did so many years ago is amazing, and in my mind, that feat is what epitomizes our sport.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Graham in Aus on September 11, 2014, 06:56:28 PM
From their Facebook page:

"Project Velocity is proud to announce the name of its streamliner! It will be called 'BURT MUNRO – 184.087 MPH'. After discussing the name of the bike with Burt’s son John Munro he agreed it was a fitting way to pay tribute to his father and ensure his name stayed in the record books. In fact, we would like to encourage other competitors to challenge the record and also name their bike after Munro including his record in the title of their bike to keep his spirit on the salt alive."
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: rouse on September 11, 2014, 07:30:08 PM
There are folks that would think that going after Burt's record would be like shooting   "John Wayne ".
I would have to say if that in fact  happened, the SCTA should take a look at Burt's record to see if it fit in a more modern class designation, ie " SPF" for example.
Most of the old school folks I know that run pushrod engines, would never want to shoot "John Wayne ".
Rouse
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: joea on September 11, 2014, 07:39:42 PM
interesting that the post about "new" name for velocity liner, popped up during this discussion here on LR, ie 4 hrs ago

very cool that they met with Burts son John...yesterday...

Rouse...careful what you wish for....

perhaps Motus could help sponsor them...?
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Malcolm UK on September 11, 2014, 11:46:19 PM
Unless this team are very clever with their design, a "full fairing streamliner" of the style of the Burt Munro Indian bike will not even get past technical inspection for any of the scheduled Bonneville meetings.

A modern partial streamlined shape would not do justice to a bid which appears to want to pay hommage to Burt. Perhaps some reworking of the project is needed before getting to Bonneville at the expense of funders who do not understand what can be built and raced on the salt
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 12, 2014, 01:36:25 AM
One of the highlights of my racing life is to be listed in the AMA record book for a few short years one the same page as B. Munro.  No more people will have that pleasure if the record is gone.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Glen on September 12, 2014, 05:03:38 PM
Joe A and Freud have it right.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Nortonist 592 on September 13, 2014, 01:44:16 AM
As I said elsewhere go break the record.  Its there for the taking.  Any modern engine in a streamliner can shatter Burt's record.  Yes, I said Burt's record.  There are 1000s of other records to go for.  Leave Burt's alone.  They are calling it "BURT MUNRO-184.087"?   184 from a modern liter bike in a cigar?  Really?    You can buy a liter bike off the dealers showroom that will do 184.  If they are going to do any justice they need to make it 284.087.  Anything less would be an insult.  Normally I will wish racers with a "dream" the best of luck.  Not in this case. 
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 13, 2014, 10:37:16 AM
Years of struggling to get speed and being only able to obtain it in small increments, after spending lots of effort and money, makes Burt's record seem more and more incredible.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 13, 2014, 10:48:24 AM
One of these engines using methanol is close to what Burt Munro used. www.cameronracingengines.com/esite/P3021/product (http://www.cameronracingengines.com/esite/P3021/product)
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: joea on September 13, 2014, 11:51:49 AM
Wobbly did you read the team/project info..?  they are NOT trying to do it like Burt
they are going about it in modern day state of the art manner.....

nortonist, thats the name they chose for the liner, not the goal, so as to try to ensure the keep
the Original Burt Munro Name and record in the record book....

Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: wobblywalrus on September 13, 2014, 11:45:26 PM
I thought the JAP was modern. 
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Stainless1 on September 14, 2014, 09:59:33 AM
OK, we all know a modern effort at the 1000 S-F or S-G record should result in records well over 200 MPH...
Burt's record should be 1000 S-VPF so maybe the first thing that should happen is the SCTA should put his record in the proper modern class.  The same was done for Dave Campos' records years ago.
Any modern effort will be a comparison of apples and oranges, the rules have changed... dramatically...

All records are subject to being broken, even Burt's, Open 1000 bikes have gone faster, I guess we will see how it all pans out  :|


Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: 55chevr on September 14, 2014, 10:39:42 AM
If the aforementioned project involves a pushrod engine the class would be SPF1000. 
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Swift33 on September 14, 2014, 12:28:12 PM
Ok , you need to ask yourself "why would anyone want to go for burts record "

I think all of us until now had the assumption it was "an unwritten rule " sort of gentlemans agreement that the record would be left alone.

By going for this record they realise it will create a big debate wether it be good or bad , so one can assume they are just doing it for the publicity and fame . By causing a response from us it is playing into their hands.

Probably the best defence of burts record is silence !! I for one would like it left alone .

Just my thoughts gents , you can make your own conclusion .
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: RichFox on September 14, 2014, 01:11:30 PM
I believe they are going for that record because it's there. I don't know why it should be more sacrosanct than Al's record. And people run on that all the time. Like later this month. Burt Monroe sounds like a really neat guy. And i enjoyed the movie. But it is still just a record. He dosen't care anymore.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: BHR301 on September 14, 2014, 01:14:28 PM
Rich, I completely agree with you.

Bill
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Elmo Rodge on September 14, 2014, 01:23:53 PM
I'm still mad that someone broke The Comte de Chasseloup-Laubat's record.  :x That should have been left untouched.  :cheers: Wayno
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: ol38y on September 14, 2014, 01:47:16 PM
Gotta say I agree with Rich and Bill. But, first they have to break it. That shouldn't be that hard the first time. The second time has been the Achilles heel for most so far. JMO  :cheers:
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: debgeo on September 14, 2014, 01:50:48 PM
Maybe something could be setup to note historic records.

Historic accomplishment Burt Munro 1967 1000 187.66 mph
Standing record  Seldom Seen Slim   2014 1000 189.26 mph.
Just an idea as I am one that would not like history to get lost. I will tell you when I got my first rulebook the first thing I looked for was Burt's record.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: 55chevr on September 14, 2014, 02:54:49 PM
NO ONE OWNS A RECORD!
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Gu11ett on September 14, 2014, 03:21:14 PM
 Burt's record is SF1000cc if someone breaks it, they will reclassify it to SPF1000cc. If it is broken again it will be reclassified to SVPF1000cc. It will have to be broken 3 times to remove Burt from the record book. This is what they did when Cliff broke Jess Thomas' record in SF500cc. Records are there to be set (open record classes) and to be broken (existing) records. Who picks and chooses the records that should be left alone? Should Cliff's record be "Untouchable" because he died while setting it? Burt did not die setting his.
 Ten years from now there will be technology eclipsing current knowledge, and it will be used to break records. That is how it works, and how it has been done in the past.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: tortoise on September 14, 2014, 04:39:50 PM
. . . one can assume they are just doing it for the publicity and fame . .

Oh, assume away, by all means. Shame on you.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: streamliner on September 15, 2014, 12:05:26 PM
Maybe it’s about time to create something like New Zealand’s Burt Munro Challenge, but limit it only to whichever class is most appropriate.  The Burt Munro Bonneville Challenge.  Then you could hold it during any of the Bonneville events.  Either give out the Burt Munro Trophy each year at the end of the year to the top class speed or give it out each time the Burt Munro Bonneville Challenge record is broken.  It just may make that class one of the most popular classes rather than one to be respectfully avoided, yet it would still pay homage to the man who inspired so many, and it would be repeated year after year, keeping his name in the forefront.  It would be newsworthy with each attempt and maybe inspire future generations to pick up a wrench instead of an electronic communication device/entertainment system doohickey...

(http://i652.photobucket.com/albums/uu248/gyronaut/rcracingvictory_zpsc16abc17.jpg)
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: RichFox on September 15, 2014, 12:31:46 PM
All you need to do to accomplish that, is buy a trophy and announce that you will give it away at the end of the season and why.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on September 15, 2014, 12:36:35 PM
Oh, why not put an ad here?  Don't forget that Nancy and I (Mr and Mrs. Seldom Seen Slim) make trophies as part of our laser engraving business.  I don't think we can do it economically for you considering the cost of shipping overseas, but if all of your racing and award-giving are done here in the US -- well, what the heck -- give us a try.

End of commercial,  Now back to talking about Burt Munro. :-D
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Eddieschopshop on September 15, 2014, 12:37:05 PM
For me it is only partially about the record. The part that has me upset is how they are going about it. If you are going to make a modern effort at the record you shouldn't be promoting yourself so heavily based on burts achievements. Don't compare yourself to Burt when you couldn't be further from how he did it. And be honest when you're promoting yourself to media To try to get attention and support.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on September 15, 2014, 03:45:13 PM
I got to meet Burt twice and certainly did not know him well but I think he would say bring it on! Just make your pistons on the kitchen stove!  :-o :-D
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Freud on September 15, 2014, 06:46:25 PM
Why not seal a record if it has been in existence for more that a certain number of years: ie    20 -  30 etc.

Or just recognize it for the period of time that it survived the competition.

By then the class will have changed anyhow. Especially motorcycles.

FREUD
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: tauruck on September 18, 2014, 12:42:42 AM
I'd rather be a hasbeen than a wannabee. :-D

If they're serious I'll donate a kitchen stove and some old Ford pistons. :cheers:

Look who they picked on, Burt Munro!!!

GROUP in UK. There, note group.

If they swam across the pond I still wouldn't give them credibility. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Nortonist 592 on September 18, 2014, 05:47:31 PM
I'm still mad that someone broke The Comte de Chasseloup-Laubat's record.  :x That should have been left untouched.  :cheers: Wayno

Back in 1899 it was a tough record.  Today I think beating 39 mph can be done by more than just a few streamliners.  Same with Burt's record.  The way the rules and engines have changed breaking his record would be a piece of cake.  Burt has a special place in land racing.  No one owns a record but some should be left for posterity to read and understand how hard Burt worked for it.  As I said before normally I'll wish anyone the best of luck in their record attempts but NOT in this case.  No respect.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: BHR301 on September 18, 2014, 06:24:11 PM
Records are on loan and should to be broken no matter who set them. If the SCTA or AMA wants to save Burt's name in the record book let them write a class for the bike to fit in. Burt's bike is not a streamliner by todays rules which means the 1000cc S-F record is up for setting at a higher number.

Bill
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Freud on September 18, 2014, 06:44:32 PM
Nortonist 592      I agree.

It's like a cop taking a child's chalk

because he is marking the sidewalk

while playing Hop Scotch. He can

do it, but WHY?

FREUD
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Nortonist 592 on September 18, 2014, 07:03:06 PM
Freud.  I compare it to shooting a puppy with an elephant gun and then calling yourself a big game hunter.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: RichFox on September 18, 2014, 09:48:25 PM
OMG. I never knew how much drama is involved in motorcycle records. I'm glad I have a car.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on September 18, 2014, 09:51:21 PM
I'm with ya, Rich.    :cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Nortonist 592 on September 18, 2014, 10:16:45 PM
Not records Rich.  A record.  Perhaps car guys don't have the same passion as bike guys.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Elmo Rodge on September 18, 2014, 11:16:33 PM
Not records Rich.  A record.  Perhaps car guys don't have the same passion as bike guys.
Yeah. That must be it.  :roll: Wayno
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on September 18, 2014, 11:30:13 PM
Not records Rich.  A record.  Perhaps car guys don't have the same passion as bike guys.

I  believe there's more than one "dramatic" motorcycle discussion going on at this time.   :-o

Mike
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: rouse on September 19, 2014, 02:58:52 PM
I know what you mean  :-D about other the discussion

Rouse
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: tauruck on September 19, 2014, 11:48:16 PM
Freud.  I compare it to shooting a puppy with an elephant gun and then calling yourself a big game hunter.


That's it right there.

END OF DISCUSSION, Thanks Nortonist. That is the post of all posts. :-D :-D :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: datsaxman on September 21, 2014, 06:45:15 PM

+1 to what Nortonist says.  There are loads of records to go after.  All meant to be broken.  BUT...

Because of advances in technology, along with rule and procedure changes, some of those very old records simply CANNOT be broken in anything remotely resembling the manner in which they were set.  If we are FOR fair competition, we should think about setting a very few records aside as UNBREAKABLE.  It is a copout to just say that the rulebook class is the class you race in and those are the records and so on.  Because things have changed too much.  Who wants to resort to UNFAIR means to break a record??  I hope none of us. 


A very few really special records inspire us all.  I always look at the records when I get the latest Rule Book.  The records in my own displacement category first...then I look for records that I think are a little slower than they maybe could be with a good effort - records that somebody like me (no money, limited skills at making stuff out of dirt and bailing wire) might be able to take a serious run at...and then the Burt Munro and Don Vesco records.  There doesn't seem to be anything as old as Burt Munro's record in the car records.  And there are even older ones in the MC section.  NSU and Triumph records from the dark ages. 
Should those records be off limits?  FAIR PLAY might demand it. 


Oh, and I think racing against Munro's record...going faster...and then declining inspection...is brilliant.
 

I have a 100% serious proposal for somebody with a suitable chassis...

Any of you out there in LSR land have a liner project I could put a budget 1000cc motor in?  It would just be a team of me...or you and me...I don't really have any money to spend...so it will take at least a year to put it together...now THAT would be a worthy effort.  No home cast pistons I expect.  Pledged to always run safe and legal...and to ALWAYS decline displacement inspection.  Maybe we could run fast enough to discourage anybody else...what if somebody comes out and they run fast?  We run FASTER.  How would they feel about having a SLOWER liner, but having to decide whether to accept a bogus "record" that we had already declined or were going to decline?  Now THAT is a tribute to Burt Munro.

At least until they reclassify Munro's record as unbreakable. Then we could see about that modern liner record.

Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: RichFox on September 21, 2014, 07:15:07 PM
So you want to retire the 1000cc s-f record as it stands and make it an open record?
or just drop the class altogether? The fuel record of Munro is 4 mph faster than Kent Riches 2003 gas record. Compared to the other 1000cc records, it doesn't look all that soft to me. But i still would like to know what you want to do with the existing record.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: datsaxman on September 21, 2014, 08:01:31 PM
Good question Rich Fox.  Munro's record was set using the famous 1920 flathead. 

That ain't Vintage...That is ANTIQUE.  It was an antique when HE ran it.  This year, that record is 47 years old...and his engine was 47 years old when he set the record too. 


I say reclassify Munro's record as 1000cc SA-F (Streamliner Antique - Fuel), and let anybody else with a pre-war or pre-1935 (or something) engine have a run at it.  It wouldn't have to be a closed class...just one where you have to compete with similar equipment.


I would like to have a run at the 1000cc S-F myself if I could afford it. 
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: joea on September 21, 2014, 08:21:15 PM
this seems to be getting ludicrous...

these kids have met with the Burts son, discussed project with him and how
to best memorialize Burt with their effort.....they named their liner with Burts name
and record speed so "if" they were to get it, it keeps Burts name in the books, and they
additionally hope others coming after might do same to honor him

I have a hunch that the pushback from LSR family about the bragging about breaking Burts
record has had a significant impact on the team and how they go about this endeavor, hence the
recent name change etc....

not sure why someone else thinks their manner of paying tribute is better, the willingness to
pay tribute by any party is pretty darn honorable

fact is the record will be challenged as all should, many previously mentioned manners of carrying on
the history of Burts legacy  with various trophies etal are more sustainable

now if we could start a US vs UK first to the 1000 SF record, that could be intriquing....

who wants to be the "first to earn the Burt Munro trophy" ..?


Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: RichFox on September 21, 2014, 09:23:07 PM
Did that thing go 184 as a flathead? Or was it an OHV converted engine? If you tack on Antique category, won't that add another 130 new classes to the 768 MC classes that already exist?
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Stan Back on September 21, 2014, 09:26:32 PM
Rich -- I seldom disagree with you -- but I think your number is low.  It's at least 4 digits.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: RichFox on September 21, 2014, 09:43:38 PM
Well i knew it was a lot. Didn't really want to count them.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Nortonist 592 on September 21, 2014, 09:50:04 PM
Did that thing go 184 as a flathead? Or was it an OHV converted engine? If you tack on Antique category, won't that add another 130 new classes to the 768 MC classes that already exist?


It was a home brewed conversion to OHV.   768 classes to choose from and they choose Burt's record.   Why?   To me its just to be able to say we broke Burt's record with a new engine in a computer designed streamliner.  Whoop de friggin do.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Freud on September 24, 2014, 06:56:52 PM
Right On, Nortonist !!

FREUD
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: kiwi belly tank on September 24, 2014, 07:37:12 PM
Burt's legend will live on no mater what happens to the record. He was pretty much only a Kiwi legend until the movie came out, then he went global & that would eventually make his record a target as all prominent records become.
I don't think there is much of a ride to be had on his coat tails here, Burt will still be Burt.
  Sid.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: RichFox on September 24, 2014, 08:19:27 PM
Right On, Nortonist !!

FREUD
Bah. Humbug.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Stan Back on September 24, 2014, 08:49:03 PM
There's a Hysterical Monument at the cat-house on Hwy. 93 -- oh well, never mind, that's the movie.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: Freud on September 25, 2014, 01:05:52 AM
Rich......that's why each slice of bread has two sides.

I'll buy breakfast for anytime we meet.

FREUD
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: NathanStewart on September 25, 2014, 04:04:36 PM
Burt's record should be 1000 S-VPF so maybe the first thing that should happen is the SCTA should put his record in the proper modern class.  The same was done for Dave Campos' records years ago.
Any modern effort will be a comparison of apples and oranges, the rules have changed... dramatically...

Stainless has got it right except that I think Burt's class would be just PF.  While Burt's motor started out as 1920 Indian Scout, his OHV conversion would move it out of vintage and into regular pushrod fuel (I think). 

Anyways, what sense of accomplishment would you have taking this record using a modern engine in a bike designed using the latest CFD technology?  Burt's body was based off of the shape of a gold fish he saw in a pond.  Sure Burt's record may currently reside under 1000SF but it isn't a 1000SF by today's standards which is what these guys are building their bike to.  Honestly, they should be a little embarrassed to say something like "47 years is simply too long for this record to stand" because they literally have no idea that what they're building doesn't compare to what they're racing against.

Burt's bike is probably somewhere between APS and S and the current (from 2012 rule book) APS-1000PF record is 169.770.  If it was decided that his bike is still a streamliner then it's conceivable that his speed would move over to 1000 SPF which is currently open.         
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: hotrod on September 25, 2014, 06:46:20 PM
And that is what I was talking about the record class he ran in, no longer exists.
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: SaltPeter on September 25, 2014, 06:55:48 PM
I think this situation raises a few issues.

One is about Burt Munro's Record the other is about resetting the SF1000 Record.

I think that Burt's Record, set as per the Rules in 1967 needs to be on the Books somewhere ..... Why because of the Performance he achieved with the resources he had ... it is part of Land Speed Racing History ....

the thing is as many have already said Burt's Bike no longer fits into the Rules in 2014 ......

and this has happened because as the Rules change and the existing Record Holder still maintains the Record ..... not just Burt ....

I am not talking about Technology I am talking about the Rules changing ....

Maybe a Rule Submission needs to be put forward to address this? Something like a Retired Records section in the Rule Book?

Then Burt's Record, and anyone else's for that matter, can be Honoured and Documented in a Retired Records Section. The Class Record under the updated Rules becomes open again and, like SF 1000 in this case, can be reset according to updated Rules that don't accommodate the previous Record Holders Vehicle .....

I am not talking about the case when a Class is changed in a way that allows new modifications. Only when the updates makes previous Class Compliant Vehicles no longer compliant .......

That way the People that create our History are there for all to see and our Sport can also move forward to create tomorrows History ....

Pete  :cheers:
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: tortoise on September 25, 2014, 07:27:46 PM
I think that Burt's Record, set as per the Rules in 1967 needs to be on the Books somewhere ..... Why because of the Performance he achieved with the resources he had ... it is part of Land Speed Racing History ....
Then he should be in the Land Speed Hall of Fame.  Why isn't he?
Title: Re: Group in UK talking about emulating Burt Monroes land speed record
Post by: NathanStewart on September 26, 2014, 04:14:17 PM
Burt Munro is in both the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame and the Dry Lakes Racing Hall of Fame.