Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: revolutionary on August 19, 2014, 01:18:41 PM
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As we are slowly progressing on my main project http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,13723.0.html , I had to do something to occupy my time, so I looked around the garage for something to play with and all I could see was this little Honda scooter. After a little thought exercise and looking through the rule book, I saw that the SCTA guys don't like anything with small wheels to run on the salt, hence no scooters. BUT, looking closer, the Sidecar rules allow for wheels as small as 10 inches!! There are few other things like the wheelbase was too short and other minor things to be remedied, but in the end, I saw no reason I could not build and run a 50cc side car "motorcycle". So here she is...
Stock image
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/untitled.png) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/untitled.png.html)
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Stripped down with 5 inch wheelbase stretch
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_1960.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_1960.jpg.html)
starting of the sidecar
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_1962.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_1962.jpg.html)
sidecar roughed in
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/photo1.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/photo1.jpg.html)
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fancy dancy 24mm OKO slide valve carb and CT manifold
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_1965.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_1965.jpg.html)
Engine swap to later model AF16 from the early AF05. Also, showing the Malossi Wild Lion pipe.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/AF16engine.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/AF16engine.jpg.html)
sidecar about done
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2178.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2178.jpg.html)
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(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2179.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2179.jpg.html)
Go kart fuel cell
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2180.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2180.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2181.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2181.jpg.html)
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ready for Speedweek (before the rain)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2292.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2292.jpg.html)
nitrous on a 2 stroke?!?!?!
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2293.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2293.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2297.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2297.jpg.html)
Cyl head temp and steering damper
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2294.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2294.jpg.html)
fuel shutoff - rewired the hi-lo headlight switch to turn off the fuel. Also wired the horn button as the momentary nitrous switch
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2295.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2295.jpg.html)
do you know how hard it is to find high speed rated scooter tires?? These are from Kenda
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2296.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2296.jpg.html)
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steering damper -
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2298.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2298.jpg.html)
even had a cushy little seat
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/IMG_2299.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/IMG_2299.jpg.html)
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Nice! The FIM has a category for 50cc scooters. You could run without the sidecar at the Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials.
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Nice build. What's the record going to be?. :cheers:
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^^ I like your optimism! Current record just over 62mph. New record 63??? :-D
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I see all my links are broken. Anyhow, here is what I started with
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/untitled.png) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/untitled.png.html)
Then stretched to minimum 50 inch wheel base and did an engine swap to an AF16E
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1960.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1960.jpg.html)
Then started working on a sidecar
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1962.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1962.jpg.html)
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Got things together in hopes of heading to Speed week in 2014 but rained out
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2180.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2180.jpg.html)
fuel cell using heavy duty nitrous solenoid in lieu of petcock
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2295.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2295.jpg.html)
I've run the nitrous a couple times. Not a big difference when using the little .008" jet, but when I put in the "big" jet (.015) it butted rings after about 10 seconds. Still need some tuning but it appears to be feasible to run a touch of nitrous if opening the ring gap. Experimenting necessary....
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2299.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2299.jpg.html)
recently did some work inside
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2887.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2887.jpg.html)
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Getting ready to head to Ohio in two weeks for some real test runs. Open record there, but with my current speeds about 50-55mph, I am far from the B'ville record of 62mph. Working on a cog belt drive system to get rid of the power-sucking vbelt/CVT system.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2853.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2853.jpg.html)
Home made pipe picked up 4mph over best aftermarket pipe. not pretty but functional. Thanks to 2 Stroke Wizard software...
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/pipe.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/pipe.jpg.html)
She's a runner...
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2299.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2299.jpg.html)
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It looks like you are going to have fun!! Just go "slow" with the nitros.
Rex
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Have you seen the record holder? You appear to be running "naked" in a class that allows extensive streamlining.
Hard to make enough HP to overcome the drag penalty :cheers:
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Stainless, Streamlining will come down the road. I will be running next weekend in Ohio to make sure all the bugs are worked out. Then I know I need a little more power, then do some aero work. 1/2mv^2 doesn't change, but at least it is not as noticeable at these low speeds. If I'm lucky I'll have something a little more competitive by August.
I know that the current record holder has a really dialed in combination and I have a long way to go. :-D
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It's a good thing you only plan to go 63mph......because if you were to go faster, Oh Boy.........sidecar wheel is in the wrong location..............good luck and be careful................
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It is surprisingly easy and stable to ride. Rode several miles today and the only issue I have is making turns on these country roads. 15 degrees of steering is not much to make a right turn!
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Made 2.5 passes today and set an ECTA record of 46.5mph. Tomorrow is another day and we try to bump it up!
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1570.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1570.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1572.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1572.jpg.html)
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D
You are the man. I used to think riders on turbo hyabusa's at rough old Maxton had nerves of steel. But now I know you have set the bar incredibly high!
What could you possibly do as an encore? An AA/GC or something?
Awesome
BR
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What a great weekend! Made 8 passes, 5 jet changes, 2 head swaps, two nitrous passes and now have a record on a bike.
Sunday the headwind just killed me and I could never get the speed (what little there was) back from Saturday. At least I went down swinging - broke a ring in the traps on the big 5hp hit of nitrous.
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Funny feature on Bangshift.com :-D
http://bangshift.com/bangshift1320/funny-land-speed-video-a-live-interview-as-an-ecta-racer-speeds-down-the-track-on-a-50cc-sidecar-motorcycle/
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Great video! I saw that this morning. Here's to any press being good press! :cheers: Congrats on the record!
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I think you're a trendsetter, this could be really big... :-D
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/mcy/5026510142.html
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Getting ready to head to Ohio in two weeks for some real test runs. Open record there, but with my current speeds about 50-55mph, I am far from the B'ville record of 62mph. Working on a cog belt drive system to get rid of the power-sucking vbelt/CVT system.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2853.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2853.jpg.html)
What are you doing for gearing when you take the CVT off
G
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G,
There will still be a final drive gear system in place as well as a centrifugal clutch. Just trying to get rid of the v-belt and spring friction
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Backing up a few steps, here are some pics from start of bodywork build to current. Right now I am finish sanding the body plug and will seal it tomorrow so I can make a fiberglass mold of it.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3349.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3349.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3067.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3067.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3069.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3069.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3072.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3072.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3297_1.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3297_1.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3343.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3343.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3350.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3350.jpg.html)
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Got the body plug where I want and the first half of the mold made.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3709.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3709.jpg.html)
Gel coat for mold. I screwed up on the first attempt as expected, trying to make each piece as a whole mold.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3713.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3713.jpg.html)
Second attempt, splitting the mold in halves. first half of mold
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3747.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3747.jpg.html)
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I dont know how I missed this previously. This is great. Loved the live interview :-D
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No ill-will or bad-karma intended................I just have to relate my first impression of your new body-work.......
When I was in high school in the early 1960s my English professor assigned the class of 110 students the task of reporting what each of us might find as the most interesting 'graffiti expression' we could find over the weekend. In those days the most prolific graffiti artists tended to be confined to public lavatories. I found the expression "if you can read this, you are now crapping at a 45-degree angle" and was awarded the professor's admiration for the most interesting snippet of American life.
When I saw the photo of the red body work, I have to say............"Not only are you crapping at a 45-degree angle, but your going 42.5-MPH :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D"
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Well, Scrambler - I certainly wanted to throw this in the crapper a few times ...
Pulled off the mold for the rear part today. Kinda ugly as the resin seeped past the gel goat on one side (yellow wrinkles). It is a learning process. The second side looks pretty good. In all it is a usable mold. Now by the time I am pulling the final parts from the mold I should have learned by my mistakes along the way how to get a good part.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3903.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3903.jpg.html)
Also, my wife and I made a test pattern for the paint job, a la Jackson Pollack. Unique and also hides the flaws :)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3901.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3901.jpg.html)
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I'm excited that the mold for the rear section worked out and we pulled good piece from it today!
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3919.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3919.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3946.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3946.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3947.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3947.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3950.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3950.jpg.html)
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Also finished up the mold for the front piece. Easy to see the difference between the first half I did and the second half, after learning some tricks.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3920.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3920.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3942.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_3942.jpg.html)
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Okee dokee, got the front piece made and now have to figure out how to mount the thing. I figure I'll make a little lightweight subframe for it, rivet it on then bolt the subframe to the scooter to make it removable easily. The rear seat piece is mounted and I'll make a flat bottom tray for it to help stabilize and keep the air from pocketing in there.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4133.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4133.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4136.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4136.jpg.html)
Careful welding next to a plastic trashcan full of paper towels soaked in lacquer thinner. Safety first???
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4128.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4128.jpg.html)
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Just a suggestion- don't use hardware store pop rivets.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Careful welding next to a plastic trashcan full of paper towels soaked in lacquer thinner. Safety first???
You would fit right in at my work
G
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Nice going on the glass work.
It's looking good. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Just a suggestion- don't use hardware store pop rivets.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Good point, they never seem to work as good as hoped - I just ordered a box of wide flange white rivets from McMaster Carr.
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Let the silliness continue...
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4196.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4196.jpg.html)
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Daryl:
You have as much time in this side car scoot as some people have in a full blown belly tank!
What we will do for a few more MPH!
BR
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And they said the Spruce Goose would never fly...
Got the turbo up and running today. Now I need a longer throttle cable and some tuning time. The intake pipe is a bit ugly right now and I will remake it with some pipe I have on the way. But it feels good to hear it scream at 11k.
https://youtu.be/f02Pn7HoDuA
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Cool . . . . .
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Getting the scooter ready for another trip to Ohio for the land speed races up there. Plenty of work done over the last few months.
Fairings are done and painted. I want to make matching belly pans but that will have to wait.
Installed the Athena big bore kit 72cc. It sounds awesome and I've only ridden up and down the block but think it feels much stronger. Going to the dyno in the next two weeks to get it dialed in. This thing so incredibly loud I don't think it would do to run up and down the streets trying to tune it :)
Also, I have it set up where I can run it as is then swap to put the turbo on and make passes. It doesn't like the turbo until it has been warmed up, but...it does great with it and I got it with a fair enough tune and idle until I hit the dyno.
Pics to follow...
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(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4098.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4098.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4100.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4100.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4102.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4102.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4050.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4050.jpg.html)
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(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4057.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4057.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4106.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4106.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4107.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4107.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4108.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4108.jpg.html)
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I like it!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pete
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A Jackson Pollock Bonneville scooter!!! Neat!
Rex
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I thought that's where he did all his work. At least his canvases look like that.
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Made some test runs with the 72cc Athena jug and head today. it definitely needs a new pipe. It is falling off at 9000rpm and should go a bit higher than that.
Ran a decent 57.9mph. Strong cross wind and struggling not to blow over. Still fun. I swapped on the turbo and made a warm up pass then in the middle of getting up to speed. put put chug.. out of gas. done for the day but I saw I was getting just 1.5 psi boost and it wanted a bunch more jet. I was running a 98 on motor then just put in a 102 for the turbo and it acted lean still.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4178.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4178.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4179.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4179.jpg.html)
swapped on the turbo
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4180.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_4180.jpg.html)
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Made some test runs with the 72cc Athena jug and head today. it definitely needs a new pipe. It is falling off at 9000rpm and should go a bit higher than that.
I sure agree with that. It looks like your head pipe is about a foot (or more) longer than it should be. Taking that much length out is going to mean a re-mount of everything else but I think you're going to have to. See if you can find some pics of the Buddfab streamliner's exhaust and turbo set up.
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http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=260425&d=1408300386
Buddfab's 50cc motor.
Pipe is shorter, fatter, smaller stinger i.d. and wrapped to make heat (gas waves move faster).
All your power is in the pipe. The turbo will just be the icing on your cake. :cheers:
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Below and bottom is the pipe I have been using as compared to a street "high performance" pipe. I used the dimensions provided by the 2 Stroke Wizard software. It picked up about 5mph overall using my ugly pipe over the best of 3 other pipes I tried.
I thought the chamber seemed really small also, but it seemed to work. I think it is about 2.5"ID. Also, I tried cutting the primary shorter and adding length until I got to what worked best, which ended up at what the software recommended.
The stinger is actually quite small at 1/2" ID and 5" OAL but I put a larger diameter extension and turnout on it to connect to the turbo.
I'll work on the software today and see what they say for the new bore size.
The buddfab system is awesome for sure. If I was starting from scratch I would use a Minarelli engine at the get go. Significantly better overall and gets rid of the power robbing CV system. This is the "fun" project that is "supposed" to be low buck and low effort. How do we keep having scope creep on these projects???
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/pipe.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/pipe.jpg.html)
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Your pipe has not enough volume,
I can send you some dimensions if you need,
What cylinder head do you use ?
Did you work on the crankcases ?
What carb and reed valve ?
David,
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Below are the specs I used. Do they seem right?
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/Scooter%20Pipe%20Specs%2050cc.png) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/Scooter%20Pipe%20Specs%2050cc.png.html)
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Rev, the pipe you're using almost looks backwards from your computer wizard.
Note the very short B2 length on the Wizard. This has a huge impact on RPMs. As is, I doubt it will make power over 10,000 as it will take too long for your gas pulses to get back to the exhaust ports.
As David said, a fatter pipe will give you more "hit" and the taper after the fat belly will help determine the length of your powerband. How many speeds does your scoot have?
You've probably seen this before. I use it as an occasional refresher when I start to think in a rational manner (like 4 stroke people) :-D
http://justyamahard350.com/articles/eric.htm
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This is a pretty good read, helps you get your head around 2 smoke pipes.
http://www.rgv250.co.uk/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=23788
I tried the "2 stroke wizard program". Lets just say I didnt go through with the pipe it designed.
Dave
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You could try a program by "bimotion" .
Works quite well,
I have a decent pipe here if you want some dimensions,
Ill try and get you some other dimensions from freinds who do scooter drag racing,
If you want help we need to know more about your moter,
Ps , rgv, i have an aprilia250.
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Looking forward to advice...
Internal engine work - just cleanup and smoothing of the ports
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2887.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2887.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2900.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_2900.jpg.html)
Stock crank and rod. 41.4mm stroke
Athena 47.6mm bore (stock is 39mm bore), no work done but it is much wider than stock and tapered oval instead of square
Athena head - static compression appx 12:1
VForce3 reeds
21mm OKO carb (I have a 24mm also, if needed, but was too big for the old 50cc)
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Try telling that program that you want to make 15hp at 14000rpm and see what it says.
Need to know your gearing/transmission.
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9:1 final gear ratio, CVT primary (2.45-0.85:1), 90-10 tires
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Ps , rgv, i have an aprilia250.
Nice bikes. Italians build very pretty bikes. (And women :-D)
Dave
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9:1 final gear ratio, CVT primary (2.45-0.85:1), 90-10 tires
so whats your pie-in-the-sky speed goal? You can figure your RPM goal from that and tune the pipe
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I'm going 58 at 9000rpm and want to go 63 with the 50cc engine and 75 with the 70cc engine.
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C'mon, Rev, you gotta set loftier goals than that !
How about 70 and 80. :evil:
Believe. BELIEVE !!
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That should be doable,
Have you measured your squish ?
How large is the squish bande,
How many cc in head ?
Is piston flat or domed ?
Can you make a port map of the cylinder to show us ?
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Wow, had to register just because this build is so cool.
Not too familiar with flat racing but pretty well versed on these scooters. I'm assuming the course is very long so acceleration isn't much of an issue? 9:1 is ok on a 50cc but a bore kit can easily push 8.4, maybe even 7.8 or even taller. They have primary gear kits that are fairly easy to swap around (the secondary kits need a press so it's not really a field swap).
Have you played with the rear pulley center spring, clutch springs, and variator weights? Once you make too much power the belt can't ever reach "top gear" so transmission tuning really helps.
Is your boost port (where the rod is resting while your motor is apart) matched to the cylinder? Not really viable if you plan on switching cylinders but once you are dedicated to 1 motor setup it's good to do.
The best pipes to emulate would be a scorpion/phongeer/arrow. Malossi is highly regarded for their cast iron cylinder and counter weighted crank, but the exhausts aren't the top choice.
Best of luck and I can't wait to see how fast you can get this thing going!
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Tried a new pipe and picked up but it a bit strange on jetting. It is a Polini Corsa race pipe.
Using the same 98 jets it ran previously 54 (57.9 with fairing), it ran 57.4 so a quick gain already, and it was very responsive. This is with the 21mm OKO. I put in a 102 jet and it acted very rich before hitting the power band, 4 stroking, but when it hit, it picked up and ran 57.9. I put in a 105, the pre-power band got much worse and almost wouldn't get on the pipe, but when it hit, it bumped up and ran 58.4. With the fairing that should be 62-63. So, it acts like it wants more jet, but has trouble getting on the pipe when I give it jet.
As a note, the clutch is engaging about 5200 and then peaking about 9400 before the CVT pulls it down. It runs top speed about 8800. I run a yellow Malossi center spring on a stock clutch housing with the lightest of the Polini outer clutch springs, giving me the 5200 engagement. It has a Ruckus Malossi variator with 5.6g weights.
I have not opened up the block for the bigger boost port as I was planning to go back and forth between the 50 and 73cc jugs, but I know this is one more piece holding me back so I will probably port it after this weekend in Ohio and see how it likes it.
I tried to part throttle it and see if I could get it on the pipe before going past 3/4 throttle and getting into the main jet, but it didn't have enough power to get up there. What is your best advice? Lower the needle or try a bigger one? Or???
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I would drop the needle. You almost need an additional fork circuit like a thunder jet
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Made 3 passes in Ohio Friday and ran a best of 59.7. Not half bad. Really looking forward to running Saturday morning with cold air and a slight tailwind, but an unfortunate incident on the track put that to a close.
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There probably isn't room on that carb for a Thunderjet
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The Thunderjet looks interesting. May be worth a try and I think I can make it fit.
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We have the turbo up and running good and are loading up to head to WoS leaving tomorrow! The goal is to get my pop a record (at 82 years old). as long as we can make two passes on the open record we will meet that goal, then we can really start playing around!
Current incarnation is 72cc and running in SC/BF100
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Good on ya, Daryl! REALLY COOL to do this with your Dad. Good luck and keep us posted on how you guys do.
Gregg
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Couldn't ask for a better day. Beautiful weather and just the right size crowd. Got through tech and went to make some runs on the short course and make sure all works well. Zero line and I made two passes easily at 49 and 48 mph. We changed drivers and put dad on the bike. He had never until this moment ridden this scooter or anything with a sidecar. He cruised through at 30, but with no problems.
We went to the long course and got in line ( they only do SCTA records in the long course). We got him ready to run and there was a huge crowd of people taking pics. Really cool! He made a great pass at 39 mph and we are in impound.
Tomorrow morning we go for return run😁👍😁👍
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I was in tech around the time you were going through. It was good to see the little scooter out there. Very cool!
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My dad called when we were driving home and told us he is ready to bump his record next year 😁👍
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Salt fever strikes again! :roll: :roll: :roll: :-D :-D :-D
Pete
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Great stuff, even better story. Thanks man. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1173.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_1173.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_0035.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_0035.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/chwdhw/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_0034.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/chwdhw/media/Sidecar%20Scooter/IMG_0034.jpg.html)
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Totally cool. :cheers:
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ