Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => 2017 and before: SW & WF => SpeedWeek 2014 => Topic started by: entropy on August 15, 2014, 02:00:25 PM
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TFA (TeamFatAzero) has been working 24x7, melting Mastercards & "tweaking" our new construction B lakester since Oct last year.
We ought to be bitterly disappointed that the event was cancelled.
But we are not... Nope.
On Friday the 8th, we were hanging around our trailer, fiddling with this n' that, waiting on a decision to go on the salt.
Then three inspectors happened by and asked if we wanted to have our new car inspection done right now?
HECK YES!!!
The 3 guys meticulously looked over the car and our documentation, made several suggestions, and our car passed!
After the inspection, Don & I both passed our witnessed bailout tests.
YAY!!!!!
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb194/guntekd/140808-inspectors_zps598a71cd.jpg)
Then, on Monday the 11th on the way back to Texas, Tom Burkland helped us through a hastily re-scheduled but very fruitful 4 hour session at the Darko wind tunnel in Ogden. Turns out that we have Cd = .325 which is OK? but front lift of 239#. We had kinda figured we needed ballast in the front but ran out of time before Speed Week. Now we KNOW we need ballast, and we have a couple weeks before World Of Speed to do it. We also tested cardboard & Gorilla tape wheel fairings and air foils on the axles, (which cut drag), re-shaped the rear of the air scoop, changed ride height, and put a big fairing under the nose. All tests impacted Cd and lift but we'll need to digest that info before making changes this winter. A huge anount of data in 4 hours costing only a lil more than we spent on diesel traveling to/from Wendover.
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb194/guntekd/140811-tominWT1_zps19606e03.jpg)
Although we didn't see one foot of salt from the cockpit, we are happier than heck at the progress we made and the people we encountered.
Many thanks to Kiwi-Paul, Adam Rogers, and Tim Boyle who cruised the casino parking lots looking for inspection candidates!!! :cheers:
And a huge thank you to Tom Burkland who burned up a day showing us how to wring info from a wind tunnel. :cheers:
As former motorcycle guys, this was Don & my 1st on-the-ground experience with "car guys" and it was GREAT!
Karl
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.... Turns out that we have Cd = .325....Karl
.325 for the whole car (wheels/tires/body)? If so I think that is good considering that the wheels/tires are over that and they probably account for about 60% of the drag according to popular believe.
Did you by any chance wind tunnel the car minus wheels/tires? I'd also like to see what the Cd numbers would be for a lone tire in there.
It was great having you guys here at the house and we were looking forward to more time on the salt. Stop any time,
Sumner and Ruth
P.S. Tom I guess your standard hat isn't wind tunnel apparel :-) :evil: 8-)
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.... Turns out that we have Cd = .325....Karl
.325 for the whole car (wheels/tires/body)? If so I think that is good considering that the wheels/tires are over that and they probably account for about 60% of the drag according to popular believe.
Did you by any chance wind tunnel the car minus wheels/tires? I'd also like to see what the Cd numbers would be for a lone tire in there.
It was great having you guys here at the house and we were looking forward to more time on the salt. Stop any time,
Sumner and Ruth
P.S. Tom I guess your standard hat isn't wind tunnel apparel :-) :evil: 8-)
Sumner,
After i digest the wind tunnel data, i had planned to call you and ask for your help generating the hp vs mph relationship, so we know what hp it'll take to get us what mph. I am 110% a rookey at all this stuff, practically totally lost.
0.325 was for the car on its wheels in the tunnel as it is now. It got down to .312 with the cardboard shapes, but lift gets messed with here & there.
We had a ball with you, Ruth, Hooley, Ken & George (if i got their names right?) at your house. You guys put Blanding on the map for us. Thanks for the steaks!!!!!
Karl
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Excellent thread.
Thanks so much. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Congrats Karl on the successful inspection :cheers: Glad it worked out for you.
.325 sounds pretty good to me - do you know your frontal area?
Dean (TFA acolyte)
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Excellent thread.
Thanks so much. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Thanks, tauruck.
we drove 4050miles & spent $1445 on diesel for a cancelled event and we're pleased as punch.
I must like to drive. :-D
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The wind tunnel is always a worthwhile investment!! I was fortunate enough to go to the wind tunnel with Larry Forstall, Mark Delucca, and Bill Warner a few years ago. We all learned a lot. Amazing what you can do wirh a little cardboard and duct tape.
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Congrats Karl on the successful inspection :cheers: Glad it worked out for you.
.325 sounds pretty good to me - do you know your frontal area?
Dean (TFA acolyte)
Thanks, Dean.
Don gets all the kudos on the successful inspection, did a great job. :cheers:
For others: our 3 ring binder of "build in progress" photos turned out to be a very good idea. Those pix answered several key structural questions during the inspection without pulling the car to pieces.
I didn't have the back up calcs with me on exactly how i came up with 9.81sq-ft, so Tyler Storey (WT guy) used 10 sq-ft for frontal area. He & Tom said it sounded about right.
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The wind tunnel is always a worthwhile investment!! I was fortunate enough to go to the wind tunnel with Larry Forstall, Mark Delucca, and Bill Warner a few years ago. We all learned a lot. Amazing what you can do wirh a little cardboard and duct tape.
Fred,
You sure hang w/the right crowd! Larry + Mark + Bill + Fred = too many records to count
Yup, it is amazing that relatively small structural changes can make significant lift & Cd changes, i had no idea.
Still don't have much of an idea.
We were sooooooooo lucky that Tom took us under his wing. :cheers:
He better watch out, being seen with 5 TFA guys + my sister Paulie + Don's wife Krys: "a man is known by the company he keeps".
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Give him a T-shirt and make him a member!! :cheers:
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I was soooo disappointed for you guys when I heard of the cancellation but leave it up to Karl to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. :cheers:
Mind if I ask what the wind tunnel costs were? I would love to put the big blue bike in there.
Tom
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Karl, sounds like you guys are really going to be Car Guys after all... :roll:
We only got as far as Denver,
Wow, jumping into the tunnel with Tom is about as good as it gets for a rain out trip, that data is your ticket to going fast.
See you at WoS
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You guys have done a masterful job on that car. We really felt it had a ton of potential and we are sure you guys will prove that out. The car is simply beautiful and your changes, additions and rebuilds are simply so well thought out and wonderfully executed.
We'll be watching and cheering on your every adventure with it!
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The Foreign looking guy in the crazy Pith Helmet in that first picture looks like he is lost, or perhaps he is looking for the Jenny Craig recipe book....fat bugger.......
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... .325 sounds pretty good...
Sounds fantastic to me!
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The Foreign looking guy in the crazy Pith Helmet in that first picture looks like he is lost, or perhaps he is looking for the Jenny Craig recipe book....fat bugger.......
Mirror, mirror, on the wall. Who's the................Oh. Never mind. :-D :cheers: Wayno
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... .325 sounds pretty good...
Sounds fantastic to me!
Jack,
my Partner Don is a pilot and surely knows about aeros, but I know nothing about aeros and see it and the other test numbers as directional info for improvements. We would like to build a hp-mph graph so we can make a decision on possible engine changes for 2015. TFA's pockets are not very deep.
The Foreign looking guy in the crazy Pith Helmet in that first picture looks like he is lost, or perhaps he is looking for the Jenny Craig recipe book....fat bugger.......
KP,
one of the TFA crew wanted to know if you are from England :wink:
You guys have done a masterful job on that car. We really felt it had a ton of potential and we are sure you guys will prove that out. The car is simply beautiful and your changes, additions and rebuilds are simply so well thought out and wonderfully executed.
We'll be watching and cheering on your every adventure with it!
Chaz,
Thanks!
Don's fabrication skills show his A&P background. Personally, i LOVE the canopy!
We had offered earlier to put one of your crew in the seat for a pass, but now unfortunately I don't think that is possible. :-(
The cockpit, seat and belts are constructed/configured specifically for Don & I at 6' 3" / 240# and any drivers need to be very close to that size to be safe in the car.
Karl, sounds like you guys are really going to be Car Guys after all... :roll:
We only got as far as Denver,
Wow, jumping into the tunnel with Tom is about as good as it gets for a rain out trip, that data is your ticket to going fast.
See you at WoS
Stainless,
We were exceedingly lucky that Tom offered his help! It seems like it is a must to have someone at the WT test who really knows how to get the most out of your specific objectives. The WT personnel are VERY helpful but they test lots of stuff besides cars, e.g motorcycles, bicyclists & skiers etc.
Yes indeed, i look forward to seeing you (finally) at WOS.
I was soooo disappointed for you guys when I heard of the cancellation but leave it up to Karl to make chicken salad out of chicken Subaru. :cheers:
Mind if I ask what the wind tunnel costs were? I would love to put the big blue bike in there.
Tom
Tom,
I am sooooo happy about yr current excellent health! Whew!
We paid $2000 for 4 hours of testing (8-12). They let us in at 7am for set up. I feel that $2k is a bargain!!!
Are you coming to WOS?
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Using other folks' calculators, you will need around 500hp to go 250, and around 850hp to go 300. Easy-peasy! :)
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/aerohpcalc.html
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Using other folks' calculators, you will need around 500hp to go 250, and around 850hp to go 300. Easy-peasy! :)
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/aerohpcalc.html
something tells me that there might be other mitigating factors... :-D
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Whatever could you mean??? :-D