Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: drmayf on April 01, 2014, 06:46:40 PM
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Jack has been fabricating a replacement chassis for the NT788 stream liner that Rick Yaccouci campaigns. He asked me to post some photos for him and after resizing them I am doing that. Because they were originally large, all over 1 meg and some over 2 megs in size they needed resizing. Even then they are still large so I will post one at a time. There are 17 of them, so be patient.
mayf
Photo 1
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Photo 2
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photo 3
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photo 4
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photo 5
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photo 6
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photo 7
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photo 8
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photo 9
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photo 10
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photo 11
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photo 12
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photo 13
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photo 14
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photo 15
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photo 16
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lastly for now, Jack's little roadster...
photo 17
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Thanks for sharing the pics. Neat suff.
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I've seen the roadster before - a perfectly sanitary little ride.
Okay - you'll excuse me if I'm being cynical - but 17 posts on a build in an hour on April 1st, pinned to the top of the build diaries?
The frame's no joke - and I'm all about fast little brit cars, but you'll excuse my - incredulity? :roll:
Hopin' I'm wrong!
Chris
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Chris: Here's the story. Jack posts on here once in a great while, so sent a batch of photos to Mayf for posting. Jack's evidently busy enough that he doesn't want to take the time to put 'em here. At least he took the time to take the photos. Anyway, Mayf got in touch with me to ask about methods for posting all of 'em and then decided to go with the one-per-post method so they could all be larger than the 125k or so minimum. Ergo 17 posts in an hour or so.
As for making it a sticky -- I did that at the request of the poster/builder. I'll unsticky it in a few days, but for now will leave it that way so that all who check into the Forum and look for unread posts will have a better chance of seeing some of Jack's work. That's all there is.
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If you would like some help, just contact me.
I've done more than a few posts and many fotos.
FREUD
drfreud99@aol.com
425-337-4558
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Chris: Here's the story. Jack posts on here once in a great while, so sent a batch of photos to Mayf for posting. Jack's evidently busy enough that he doesn't want to take the time to put 'em here. At least he took the time to take the photos. Anyway, Mayf got in touch with me to ask about methods for posting all of 'em and then decided to go with the one-per-post method so they could all be larger than the 125k or so minimum. Ergo 17 posts in an hour or so.
As for making it a sticky -- I did that at the request of the poster/builder. I'll unsticky it in a few days, but for now will leave it that way so that all who check into the Forum and look for unread posts will have a better chance of seeing some of Jack's work. That's all there is.
So Jon, you're telling me we're not being punked, and there's no punch line?
It's just a coincidence that on April 1st, a whole cloth build diary that covers this much ground drops out of a clear, blue sky?
It's Sticky?
I'm not paranoid - you're in on it! :-D
Oh, all right - maybe I am just a bit paranoid . . .
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Considering who the car builder is and the significance of the cars he has built and that Rick has provided the power for (some of them) I have no problem seeing the build as a sticky for now or for however long. Hope Jack continues to present pictures to be posted. I have a number of them myself and his builds have greatly influenced mine.
I was in Jack's shop some years ago, Mike Ackatiff ran me over, and Jack was making a body at that time and the bondo dust was so think on the floor it was like wading through a fresh snow 8-). I wish I could stick with it like he has over the years. Some great cars and 'kind-of-bikes' have come out of that modest shop.
Now was the new chassis a result of the old one finally falling victim to the salt gods or are their major changes or ?????
Sum
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This is a nice set of pictures and I like the size because some of the details are made a lot clearer.
I especially like picture #5 of Jack using his precision fitting tool. :-D :-D :evil:
Pete
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its all very nebulous....
and wonderful
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Thanks A Lot Mayf and Jon! Whats a sticky?
Jack
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photo 6
Hey, I have the same shirt, no moustache and would fit that cockpit way better. 150lbs, 5'7" hot shoe.
Sign me up before I get too expensive. :-D
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Jack, a sticky keeps you at the top of the list while all the other postings fall down the list as more threads are posted.
Thank-you very much for having these pictures posted. I really appreciate seeing some of the detail. I really like how you do your stuff. It's built to work!
Pete
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I asked Rick on Facebook what became of the old chassis. He informed me that they cut it apart for a closer inspection of the years of abuse that Bonneville and El Mirage put on the car.
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Tauruck,
The success of Neb III comes not only from the chassis but the fact that Rick does all his own engine R&D, on his dime. He does the fab work, including the electronics and tuning. You can find him at his shop 7 days a week, that's commitment. Being of a petit size with a large set is only a part of the equation. Do you fulfill the requirements?
DW
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This is a nice set of pictures and I like the size because some of the details are made a lot clearer.
I especially like picture #5 of Jack using his precision fitting tool. :-D :-D :evil:
Pete
I couldnt agree more PJ. Some excellent work and I too love Jack's BFH :-D
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Jack's cars are unique.
Only thing I can say is that they must be awesome to see in person. :cheers:
They are way outside the box.
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its all very nebulous....
and wonderful
Absolutely :cheers:
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Thanks for jack making this for all of us to see!
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I think I remember a conversation with Rick in which he said that Jack was a little skeptical about running the old chassis over 400 and I know that 400+++ is Rick's goal and I would certainly not bet against him as he is good with motors and knows how to go fast!!
Rex
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He has come so far since I first saw him on a solo bike.
He was fast then and he is lightning now.
New colored HAT soon.
FREUD
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Car is getting close looks like a month or so we will be testing @ El Mirage.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/12376516_10208622635473175_8982130268402756387_n.jpg)
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Outstanding :cheers:
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Can you say "450 here I come"!!!! I think all of us would love to see Rick up in the 400+ area slugging it out with Poteet and Main.
Rex
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The butter and egg money vs. Fort Knox!!
FREUD
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Rick,
Remember Mike and I would like to test too, let us know ahead of time so we can get the driver down here from Salem
Jim
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What? Rick lusts for a black hat? What a surprise!!! :cheers: :cheers: :evil:
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Nice looking Build, Rick.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Big respect for Jack and his crew. :cheers:
The packaging must be a nightmare but I know
he's done it before. Awesome car.
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So far the car has been on the dyno for a month. been verifying sensors, wiring, programming the Racepak and building a tune.
seems like I need a bigger water brake for the dyno because the engine can over power the dyno at will, but it's or good enough for now.
we roll the car outside for testing so we don't asphyxiate everyone.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1410.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1411.JPG)
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Rick,
Remember Mike and I would like to test too, let us know ahead of time so we can get the driver down here from Salem
Jim
Jim will let you know when we get closer
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So far the car has been on the dyno for a month. been verifying sensors, wiring, programming the Racepak and building a tune.
seems like I need a bigger water brake for the dyno because the engine can over power the dyno at will, but it's or good enough for now.
we roll the car outside for testing so we don't asphyxiate everyone.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1410.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1411.JPG)
What sort of water inlet pressure to the absorber? Higher inlet water pressure will increase the torque capacity, somewhat.
I think that you are correct in thinking the absorber is too small. It appears to be an older Stuska or Go-Power. (?) Absorber size needs to appropriate for the torque load to carry out full rpm range testing.
PM Harold Bettes. He can give you the best advice on this.
:cheers:
Fordboy
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So far the car has been on the dyno for a month. been verifying sensors, wiring, programming the Racepak and building a tune.
seems like I need a bigger water brake for the dyno because the engine can over power the dyno at will, but it's or good enough for now.
we roll the car outside for testing so we don't asphyxiate everyone.
What sort of water inlet pressure to the absorber? Higher inlet water pressure will increase the torque capacity, somewhat.
I think that you are correct in thinking the absorber is too small. It appears to be an older Stuska or Go-Power. (?) Absorber size needs to appropriate for the torque load to carry out full rpm range testing.
PM Harold Bettes. He can give you the best advice on this.
:cheers:
Fordboy
Its a Stuska 400. I have been able to load 700hp with it. I have the rear end geared at 1 to 1 so we are running the absorber at 9000rpm. with the pumps I have I make almost 50psi between the load valve and the absorber.
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Rick, this mabe an odd question but since the chassis is new; is this considered a new car need needing a different LSR chassis # and possibly a different log book? It looks like you are using the same body and the #788 is yours so that's no big deal. I've considered replacing the frame rails on my roadster and wondered how that would effect the LSR chassis # and log book....every thing looks great...JD
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Rick, this mabe an odd question but since the chassis is new; is this considered a new car need needing a different LSR chassis # and possibly a different log book? It looks like you are using the same body and the #788 is yours so that's no big deal. I've considered replacing the frame rails on my roadster and wondered how that would effect the LSR chassis # and log book....every thing looks great...JD
Hi Jimmy I had totally forgot about the LSR chassis number, I think I will need a different number but I have a call in to find out for sure.
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And, Rick -- tell me --- are those headers just an off-the-shelf item at your local O'Reilly's? There's something just a tad unusual looking about 'em. Nice work on cramming stuff inside the body shell. :-D :cheers:
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Rick,
If you are not overfilling the brake and not holding torque, verify the restrictor on the outlet in the bottom.
Sometimes they are eroded away and not holding the water.
John
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And, Rick -- tell me --- are those headers just an off-the-shelf item at your local O'Reilly's? There's something just a tad unusual looking about 'em. Nice work on cramming stuff inside the body shell. :-D :cheers:
Thanks Slim, yea just order up part # RYR-NT3.5-5834911 there only 12,999.99 each. Like most everything on a small streamliner you can't just call Jegs, you have to design and build with the forethought of everything else that wants to be in the same spot, those headers took 2 months of cutting, welding mocking up cussing, cutting apart over and over again until I had enough clearance for the body, able to get to the various nuts and bolts that attach it to the head for which there are 3 custom wrenches, able to service the spark plugs for which there are 4 different custom wrenches. there are 6 slip joints so the header hopefully wont try to brake it self apart. then build shielding and get them coated inside and out.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1416.JPG)
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Rick,
If you are not overfilling the brake and not holding torque, verify the restrictor on the outlet in the bottom.
Sometimes they are eroded away and not holding the water.
John
Thanks John Yes water is coming out of the vent, I put a valve on the bottom of the absorber to help tailor the dyno to different engines.
I figure we are just making more torque than the absorber can absorb. I have not been paying attention to HP numbers but I did see over 500ft-lb at 5000 rpm and almost 800hp at 7000rpm at only 10psi of boost, it is very hard to keep the engine from running away at that power level so I guess we will be tuning on the track.
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I think you might have rewritten the book on getting more than 10lb of $hit in a 5lb liner there Rick! :-o
I have a friend that makes custom turbo & manifold heat blankets that will squeeze down to 1/4" in tight places & they're so good you can hold your hand on them any time. Looks like you could use some protection there.
Sid.
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here is the new universal can bus interface that Donny Cummins from racepak got us to test with the new AEM can protocol.
This interface is programmable to various different EFI systems.
also a picture of the bigAss turbo and the drive by wire
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1413.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1418.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1415.JPG)
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I think you might have rewritten the book on getting more than 10lb of $hit in a 5lb liner there Rick! :-o
I have a friend that makes custom turbo & manifold heat blankets that will squeeze down to 1/4" in tight places & they're so good you can hold your hand on them any time. Looks like you could use some protection there.
Sid.
Thanks Sid do you have any contact info for your friend?
the 2 dzus tabs on the valve covers are for a stainless shield, I have a thin heat mat on the inside of the body that im not to happy with. maybe your friend has something to replace that.
I figure if I have to I can mist water on the body to keep it form burning.
I have several channels on the Racepak assigned to movable thermocouples so we can monitor items of interest.
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I've given out his info before on the forum & I believe Slim was ok with it then.
Turbo Performance Products
Levi @ 208-251-9141.
What is your engine, C/BF?
Sid.
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I've given out his info before on the forum & I believe Slim was ok with it then.
Turbo Performance Products
Levi @ 208-251-9141.
What is your engine, C/BF?
Sid.
Thanks Sid the engine is E/BG
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What do you do when nobody makes the ring and pinion you need?
grind off the old gear
turn the end of the shaft
and press on new gear
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1454.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1464.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74992334/IMG_1465.JPG)
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That's my kinda stuff right there! 8-) What's your ratio & what is that, a Dana 60 pinion with a semi axle gear? :?
Sid.
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That's my kinda stuff right there! 8-) What's your ratio & what is that, a Dana 60 pinion with a semi axle gear? :?
Sid.
its a champ pinion shaft and yes a semi spider gear. the ratio is 1.78
the ring gear is only 5"
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anyone ever try burnishing gear teeth with Moly?
how about using Moly as an additive to the oil in a rear end?
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anyone ever try burnishing gear teeth with Moly?
how about using Moly as an additive to the oil in a rear end?
No, Rick, but I did know of a fellow who burnished his gears with a can of Brass-O.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Rick,
I have always admired the stuff that you build, your original NT III with the turbo Busa was probably one of the most impressive cars to ever run at the salt. Now your adaption of a turbo SBC into the NT III chassis is a marvel of packaging, engineering and fabrication. (OK here it comes) BUT what appears to be your design for a final drive really looks like it could be marginal at best. Using a 25 inch tire diameter (not considering tire growth at 400 mph, which could be considerable) I get a tire-ring gear speed of approx 5400 rpm and a pinion speed of 9600 rpm and you are going to put probably as much as 1500+ hp through a straight bevel pinion gear with 9 teeth and a ring gear with 16 teeth. I cannot say that I am optimistic about this working. Have you had anyone look at the tooth loads and cooling requirements for this drive?
Rex
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Rick,
I have always admired the stuff that you build, your original NT III with the turbo Busa was probably one of the most impressive cars to ever run at the salt. Now your adaption of a turbo SBC into the NT III chassis is a marvel of packaging, engineering and fabrication. (OK here it comes) BUT what appears to be your design for a final drive really looks like it could be marginal at best. Using a 25 inch tire diameter (not considering tire growth at 400 mph, which could be considerable) I get a tire-ring gear speed of approx 5400 rpm and a pinion speed of 9600 rpm and you are going to put probably as much as 1500+ hp through a straight bevel pinion gear with 9 teeth and a ring gear with 16 teeth. I cannot say that I am optimistic about this working. Have you had anyone look at the tooth loads and cooling requirements for this drive?
Rex
Hi Rex Thanks
Jack and I and my team definitely have had good luck with NT II. NT III has been a little struggle but will get there.
The straight bevel gears have been in use on NT III for many years with up to 800hp and other than wear they are still alive.
in the past we used ATF in the diff and that was a bad idea, i'm guessing most the wear came from using the wrong lubricant.
I don't think we will dial in more than 8 or 900hp this year as we will be taking baby steps with our program, we can't afford to break anything so we need to race smart. In the future I can see the need of a stronger design but we will try, the car is light and we have a torque converter both those things should help the drive line live, then we can also play with torque management. To answer your question no I never had anyone look at the requirements for the drive.
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:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Go to SAE-50 synthetic trans fluid, that's what semi transmissions use with huge tooth loading plus it's thin enough to pump if you use one.
Sid.
ps Have you looked into industrial right angle drive boxes? They have bevel gears with more tooth contact.
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Go to SAE-50 synthetic trans fluid, that's what semi transmissions use with huge tooth loading plus it's thin enough to pump if you use one.
Sid.
ps Have you looked into industrial right angle drive boxes? They have bevel gears with more tooth contact.
Thanks Sid I am investigating the oil situation I have some heavy synthetic gear oil to start out with and I will try burnishing with moly.
the industrial right angle drive boxes look interesting :-) have you done any research on them?
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I did look into using some 1 to 1 bevel gears for my liner when I started building about 6 yrs ago but I just don't have the machining capability to build all the rest of the stuff so I used a pair of 10 bolt centers with 2.136 gears & put direct/overdrive units on the front of them to end up with .962 final.
There are some ratio's available off the shelf in bevel gears.
I also built a front reverser transfer case using 8" gears from a Funk Drive pump case.
Sid.
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If my memory is correct, Don Vesco used industrial right angle drives in the Turbinator and told me that they were trouble free with all the torque the turbine (T-55 methinks) put out. They were for 50 HP electric motors. You can ask Rick Vesco to see if that is correct. :? I do remember being impressed. The industrial units are for heavy use, 24-7, so they may be way overbuilt. The cases are probably heavy, but worth a look.
Hope this helps..... :-)
Matt Guzzetta
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IIRC the Burkland liner uses 1 to 1 90 degree drives out of one of those large rotating billboards.
Ron
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anyone ever try burnishing gear teeth with Moly?
how about using Moly as an additive to the oil in a rear end?
Yep
I put a moly additive in the gearbox and diff in our bellytank
G
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Thanks for the reply's guys, I will investigate the angle drives in the future for now El Mirage is only 3 weeks away :-o :-o
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This would be the time to say good luck Rick but I'm a big proponent of good management so have at it & I'm interested to see how it all works out.
The first time a saw a rotary sign gearbox use as a drive axle was in Nolan White's Spirit-of-Autopower liner back in the 80's so they can apparently handle gobbs of power.
Sid.
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Hub City is the outfit that Tom Burkland worked with for the sign turner drives he used in the liner. They come in HD cast iron boxes, a 10 inch that goes to 1.5:1 and a 12 inch that will fit a 1:1. They are not cheap and You need to make a few parts... oh, they are a bit heavy as well. Gear sets are a but pricey, we had a 1.5 in the liner, I ordered a 2:1, about $2500 for the gears to change it.
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Hub City is the outfit that Tom Burkland worked with for the sign turner drives he used in the liner. They come in HD cast iron boxes, a 10 inch that goes to 1.5:1 and a 12 inch that will fit a 1:1. They are not cheap and You need to make a few parts... oh, they are a bit heavy as well. Gear sets are a but pricey, we had a 1.5 in the liner, I ordered a 2:1, about $2500 for the gears to change it.
Thanks Stainless
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Here is a vid of our run on sunday
https://youtu.be/CO099xgV90c (https://youtu.be/CO099xgV90c)
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https://youtu.be/Rozrjuu5hTs (https://youtu.be/Rozrjuu5hTs)
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https://youtu.be/KNYwdmYdx2A (https://youtu.be/KNYwdmYdx2A)
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Great video. Sort of sounds like this old one. Congrats, Ric.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz-WuLQz_ns
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Playing around with AEMData video overlay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohrAU3Db__8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohrAU3Db__8)
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Cool video Rick! Thanks