Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Briz on November 03, 2013, 12:25:16 PM
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Been meaning to start this build thread off for some time, but hey-ho, other things get in the way.
After our last Speed-week trip in '12 with my somewhat hubristically named 'worlds fastest Weslake' debacle,( :roll:) I had to decide what to bring to run next time.
Clearly there wasn't any question of there not being a next time. :-D
The Weslake wasn't going to fly again; It was never going to get near a record and besides, I had grown to dislike it a bit.
So I sold the engine on and pondered. A XB9 Buell engine was originally mooted, our friend PJ had one and we did a deal. But I really couldn't get into the idea, and there was little progress.
At the end of March this year, it was the 40th anniversary of me getting my first proper bike; a BSA A10. Suddenly it all fell into place. The Buell plan was ditched.
It was always going to be special-construction, but this time we could run in Vintage. Blown. Methanol.
So we set about sourcing some BSA stuff. After a false lead or two, we (thats me & David who crewed for me last time and will co-ride this time) hit the Newark swap-meet and got some basics:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/A10stuff_zps407715c0.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/A10stuff_zps407715c0.jpg.html)
We also met an old boy who used to run sidecar grasstrack. Paul Grayson in west London. He used to cast his own parts and had a couple of blank alloy cylinder castings. We bought one:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Barrelcasting_zps400e2740.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Barrelcasting_zps400e2740.jpg.html)
Not the tidiest casting in the world, he never intended to win shows, just races! But the alloy is good and properly heat-treated. Theres also a lot of it! no question of these breaking.
That gets us out of trying to find a good thick-flange original pair of barrels, but leaves us with a ton of machining.
In mid April I topped & tailled and rough-bored the cylinder casting in a spare afternoon. Cored cylinder holes were way off - too close together and one was a bit skewed. Didn't clean up until I got to 72mm. Good job we didn't want the stock 650 70mm bore!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Allybarrelstoppedamptailled2_zpsd2e24043.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Allybarrelstoppedamptailled2_zpsd2e24043.jpg.html)
The guys on the A10 forum have been super helpful. http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php
One guy-Julian-who restores Lagondas for a living is building a street scrambler A10 has made his own billet crank & barrels. He's offered to help us with cylinder drawings.
Another bloke, Muskrat, had a twin-carb ally head. Wanted to swap for a 4-spring clutch. Only problem, he's in OZ! But then Julian stepped in again and offered to send a spare clutch of his to Muskrat who could then send us the head. How generous was that? He wont even let me pay shipping.
When the ally twin-carb head arrived from OZ, we found Muskrat put a customs value of 300 Australian dollars on it. Had to pay £80 odd duties & vat. :roll: Still, a good deal.
Dinky turbo is off a punto/Corsa 1.2L diesel. Only £30!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Headampturbo_zps48110661.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Headampturbo_zps48110661.jpg.html)
We decided to use a Norton crank, and another good ol' boy, Baz, came up with a 750 commando one. Why? they're 89mm stroke as opposed to 84mm. With a 73mm bore, it gets us 744cc.
Plus, big-journal A10 cranks are rare and fetch big bucks these days.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Crank_zpsb070ccbb.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Crank_zpsb070ccbb.jpg.html)
Early May, got some work done on the crankcases. Main-bearing upgrades; a notorious Achilles-heel on BSAs. The stock timing side one is just a bush (left in pic) A poor setup which fails regularly and bleeds off oil pressure that could be going to the big-ends.
There isn't enough room to bore out for a decent size ball or roller bearing; the solution is a special INA combination ball-roller bearing:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/TSmainbrgs_zps58c832fe.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/TSmainbrgs_zps58c832fe.jpg.html)
First, you have to set the crankcases up true & level in the mill. So I took a light cut off the timing face:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/skimmingtimingface_zpsb8445cdf.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/skimmingtimingface_zpsb8445cdf.jpg.html)
These cases are 55-odd years old. Nothing is properly true on them! I knew they'd be out of line; I set them up & centred on the drive-side bearing bore, then removed the LH case & tried to centre up on the opposite bearing bore. Turned out to misaligned by about .006" (timing side hole was out-of-round too!)
Decided to take up the difference on the drive-side one to avoid gear-mesh problems on the timing side. Bored the case to take the new bearing:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/boringTScase_zps163cdfbe.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/boringTScase_zps163cdfbe.jpg.html)
Then bolted the other half back on and took a cut out of the oil-seal bore:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/alignboringDSmain_zps67f2ee5d.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/alignboringDSmain_zps67f2ee5d.jpg.html)
Which gave me something to centre up on when doing the drive side; using a Norton superblend bearing, which is 10mm bigger than the stock A10 one:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/DSmainbrgs_zpsb435f49c.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/DSmainbrgs_zpsb435f49c.jpg.html)
Finished bore:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/LHcasebored_zps35a0e8cb.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/LHcasebored_zps35a0e8cb.jpg.html)
Next, oil system mods. I'll continue this later.
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...
When the ally twin-carb head arrived from OZ, we found Muskrat put a customs value of 300 Australian dollars on it. Had to pay £80 odd duties & vat.
Aaaaargh Briz. You should have started this thread way earlier.
I have such a twin-carb head here and you could have had it for free ...AND duties/VAT free.
Anyways: IF you need it for some reason, feel free to contact me.
Can't wait to see what you're up to here, being a BSA fan and all.
When you have everything ready it should look somewhat like this:
that's my (still to be finished second rebuild ) BeeZZ'er:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/engineparts-1.jpg)
, Baz, came up with a 750 commando one. Why? they're 89mm stroke as opposed to 84mm. With a 73mm bore, it gets us 744cc.
...so all you have to do now is pust some kind'a fairing on it and you'll be in 750 ASP-VBF -class
running against my Nimbus : http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,13079.0.html
... yeaaah ! ....and beat me....won't be too hard to.
.-)
Good luck !
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I didn't realise you were a BSA man Lars! Cool. Thanks for the offer.
We wont be getting in your way in that class mate; we're running without a fairing.
BTW: that Nimbus looks like an amazing project!
Got the oilway mods on another spare afternoon. The BSA has the oil to the big-ends fed thru the timing side main journal and round a groove in the journal to the pressure release valve.
We're converting to end-feed into the crank, so a way has to be made for the oil to get there.
There is a dowel that locates the inner timing cover which will be put to use here. First up, drill a hole across to the oilpump outlet hole:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Drillingoilway_zps4bfe3d2b.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Drillingoilway_zps4bfe3d2b.jpg.html)
A bit heart-in-mouth hoping it doesn't break thru the casting anywhere! It didn't.
Then tap the end for a 1/8bsp pipe plug:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/oilwaytappingforplug_zps8d7119a1.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/oilwaytappingforplug_zps8d7119a1.jpg.html)
Then bolt the case down timing face up to drill the dowel hole thru:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Drillingoilway2_zpsac4d4bee.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Drillingoilway2_zpsac4d4bee.jpg.html)
Lastly, set up the other way up & cut a groove in the bearing hole to re-connect the pressure release valve:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Cuttingoilgroove_zps19b2cf95.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Cuttingoilgroove_zps19b2cf95.jpg.html)
Time to machine the crank; needed turning to accept BSA timing gear & oilpump drive. Also, an extension piece had to be pressed on to get the full width for the main bearing. Oilpump drive is LH thread, so had to screwcut the thread upside-down.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningcrank_zpsb1f951e6.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningcrank_zpsb1f951e6.jpg.html)
And in the cases (in dummy bearings); endfloat was spot-on at .010":
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/crankincases_zps47931c29.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/crankincases_zps47931c29.jpg.html)
In June, we drove over to see the event at Pendine Sands. But Saturday morning, we drove up to Aberystwyth to see the guys at SRM. http://www.srmclassicbikes.com
A very impressive setup they have there; they can do every aspect of bike resto except for plating. They gave us the grand tour.
I handed over a list of stuff we needed and they went off to find it. I had already brought up the subject of sponsorship; I left it up to them how much they wanted to help - anything from a bit of discount to...well whatever.....
The box of parts appeared, and Gary & Geoff there went off to confer.
They came back and said 'right, we'll do 10%'
I wasn't going to show any disappointment and said 'OK'
They then chuckled 'Nooooo, not really! you can have it for nothing'!
At which point we were all overcome with gratitude.
Heres what we got, about £500 worth.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/SRMstuff_zps20e544e6.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/SRMstuff_zps20e544e6.jpg.html)
In other news, we got wheels. Thanks to Mook for donating the front one. They're off BMWs and have a unique spoke arrangement that allows tubeless tires.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Wheels_zpscfe5a1ef.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Wheels_zpscfe5a1ef.jpg.html)
And back from chrome powder coating:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Chrpowcoatwheel_zpsc21421a3.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Chrpowcoatwheel_zpsc21421a3.jpg.html)
On July 1st, a package arrived from the states - big thanks to Drift for helping to get this to us.....
Wiseco pistons:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Wisecopistons_zpsa7930dc3.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Wisecopistons_zpsa7930dc3.jpg.html)
These are much shorter than the stock ones, only 25mm compression height. So although we're running a 5mm stroker crank, the rods will still need to be 0.265" longer than stock.
Cam:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Cam_zps903929bb.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Cam_zps903929bb.jpg.html)
I had Megacycle in California grind this; its based on one of their catalog grinds but has a bit more lift - 10mm! almost 2mm more than the stock 356 cam.
But less duration! Only want minimal overlap with a turbo.
Compare the new one (left) with a stocker:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Camcompare_zps17c2eadc.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Camcompare_zps17c2eadc.jpg.html)
Lastly, beehive valve springs. Actually intended for a Ford 4.6L SOHC V8. Just got to find some colletts which will work!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Valvesprings_zps2464574e.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Valvesprings_zps2464574e.jpg.html)
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Briz, you are as much of a hot rodder as anyone in the Colonies.
FREUD
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Go the Beeza :cheers:
Pete
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Very cool Briz. Im not much of a m/c guy but this is pretty fascinating to read. Look foward to more updates.
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I didn't realise you were a BSA man Lars! Cool. Thanks for the offer.
Your're welcome. YeP: I like Beezers; my first bike that I bought some 36 years ago was a BSA
...er...sort of: really it was a TriBsa .. that is a BSA A10 frame with a Triumph Speed Twin engine.
The one I have now is a ungodly mix of all good BSA-things.
I've had it for some 13 years.
This talk made me curious as I haven't checked the cylinder-head for years.
Came in a box of parts with the bike.
I was quite pleased with the current one-carb set up. Mikuni flat-slide btw.
Works really well.
Anyway , had to dig it out, so here it is:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/DSCF3617.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/DSCF3618.jpg)
There's a few repair-welds but it seams to be in excellent order.
Actually is appears to be rebuild with new guides and seat work.
The offer still stands .... and it goes without saying: even if you choose to run with a fairing
.-)
Ohh: and here's the bike:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/8a.jpg)
...as you can see: a mix of BSA parts ( and a bit of Triumph for good measure )
.
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Briz,
Great to see another Beezer coming to Bonneville! I hope you get to stay for the BUB Speed Trials as well as Speed Week. I'm in awe of your engine work. I had heard about guys using Norton cranks in BSA sidecar rigs, but didn't know how it was done.
Tom
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Briz, in the old dayz we would heat up the crank cases and pull out the dowel pins that locate the right half on the left half. Then we took out the crank bearing and bushing and we put in new cam bushings. Next, we bolted the two crank case halves together over a mandrel in place of the crank. The outside diameter of one end of the mandrel was a tight clearance fit in the bushing hole. The other end of the mandrel was a tight clearance fit on the bearing hole. We looked at how the cylinder decks matched. I remember a unit construction A-65 where they were offset the thickness of a dime. We milled the decks flat and parallel to the crank center line. We also line bored the cam bushings.
The dowel pins were never used again to locate the halves together. Instead, flat areas were filed on the outside of the case joint on both ends of the motor. Then, we scribed lines across the flats. Proper reassembly was lining up the flats and scribe marks before tightening the bolts down that held the cases together.
"We"was me watching, paying, and the machinist doing all of the work. This was not optional on the engines I built. It was a mandatory thing. This blueprinting, and a dynamic crank balance job, sure gave these bikes a lot of smoothness and more power. It also cured the problem with low oil pressure on the timing side bushing.
This is great that you are building a BSA. It brings back old memories for a lot of us.
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Wow! thanks guys!
Lars; that BSA of yours looks nice enough to eat! That looks a lot like an A10 rather than an A7 head there. You do know those are worth good money, dont you?
You might be interested in the story of my little bobber I built a few years ago: http://www.customcycledevelopments.com/BSA_bobber.html
I used parts from as many different bikes as I could there!
On with the story...
It was at this point that some money became available :-D. I had been building a '79 Trans-Am with a 540 inch BBC for some time. It was progressing slowly what with all this LSR stuff. So when I got a reasonable offer for the uncompleted car, I reluctantly went for it (I've never had a really massive big-block before - dont suppose I will now)
So with this windfall, I asked Dave Branch if he'd do me a billet crank, and he agreed to take it on. In doing this, I was able to specify a few things that the Norton crank didn't have.
Anyway, with some customer work out of the way I was able to get stuck into it again.
I needed to assemble a mockup engine assy, so I resumed work on the barrel casting. Sadly, our Julian never came up with the drawings for David to CNC them, so I did it the old fashioned way.
Took the top-end off the Bobber and plotted the top & bottom bolt patterns. The stock barrel was all over the place! fortunately, when BSA designed the A10 they mostly used rational measurement units - sixteenths of an inch here! So figuring out what the dimensions should be was easy.
Top bolt pattern - tapped the holes 10mm rather than 3/8 BSF:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningbarrel1_zpsfdf823d8.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningbarrel1_zpsfdf823d8.jpg.html)
Bottom holes:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningbarrel2_zps1d307f3a.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningbarrel2_zps1d307f3a.jpg.html)
And doing the spigots on the ol' rotary:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningbarrel3_zps52bc9b3f.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningbarrel3_zps52bc9b3f.jpg.html)
The rearmost bottom holes ended up too far back and so I'll need to build it up with weld.
The last bit is the hardest; doing the cam-follower bores and the pushrod tunnel.
Doing the cam follower bores was a bit heart-in-mouth as screwing it up would junk the whole job.
First thing was to bolt the stock barrels onto the cases with a pointer in a lifter bore to check for misalignment:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Checkingfollowersalignment_zps9e7e4b5d.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Checkingfollowersalignment_zps9e7e4b5d.jpg.html)
Not too bad, maybe ten thou out.
Set the mill up using the stock barrels. Drilled the angle plate so I could bolt the stock set on and then the ally casting in the same place:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Settingupfollowers_zps33c861ba.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Settingupfollowers_zps33c861ba.jpg.html)
And there's the followers in place! Got the fit just about right...phew!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Barrelsfollowersin_zpse6e1f47e.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Barrelsfollowersin_zpse6e1f47e.jpg.html)
Time to do some ally welding. Built up the rear barrel flange and got started on ol' Muskys head.
Added bosses for exhaust studs. Dont think shove-in pipes will work with a turbo! Also welded up one of the exhaust valve-guide holes as it was hugely oversize, and plugged up some damage to the gasket surface.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Headsampbarrelswelded_zps235964cd.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Headsampbarrelswelded_zps235964cd.jpg.html)
While it was cooling down, I set up the cases and bored out the cam tunnel. Our superduper cam was too big for it!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Boringcamtunnel_zps2e1be47a.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Boringcamtunnel_zps2e1be47a.jpg.html)
Thought I'd let that ally welding age for a few days. Plenty else to be getting on with.
Before I could set up the engine/gearbox I needed to know primary length. Primary drive was something that could be done in a number of ways.
Definitely wanted belt drive; could have spent north of £400 on a Commando kit, but with the billet crank, I have the option to have a splined sprocket shaft (which I certainly will choose! - hate tapers)
Also, the Commando clutch was good in its day, but there is better stuff. Such as the Kawasaki GPZ1100 clutch I've had kicking about for decades!
The good thing about the Kwak clutch is that both the basket and the hub are rivetted to their respective drive parts. So grind off the rivets and you can attach it to anything..well almost.
I bought some blank pulleys and a 2" belt from Bearing Boys along with some bearings & circlips. Here, I'm measuring the installed length between centres:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Measuringbeltcentres_zpsce470f69.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Measuringbeltcentres_zpsce470f69.jpg.html)
Sadly, the big pulley wasn't solid, but was webbed with big centre bosses, so I machined the middle out and turned up some steel:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Clutchdrumbits_zps6fd4658e.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Clutchdrumbits_zps6fd4658e.jpg.html)
Then welded it all up and machined it:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Clutchdrumweldedampturned_zps5a7261f4.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Clutchdrumweldedampturned_zps5a7261f4.jpg.html)
Completed:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Clutchfinished_zpsdcac88bb.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Clutchfinished_zpsdcac88bb.jpg.html)
End of August, it was cylinder head time, amongst other things...
Wasn't looking forward to doing this! All the valve guide holes were tapered and well oversize, and the valve seats were for the small A7 valves. Too small for our SRM Rocket Gold Star valves.
I'd already welded up the worst guide hole (over 1/16" oversize!).
I set the head up on the adjustable angle plate...
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Headsetup_zps5561c196.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Headsetup_zps5561c196.jpg.html)
..And remachined the guide holes and machined out the seats. A horrible job; the stock seats are cast-in and are an irregular shape. They're also pretty hard.
This meant that some of the old seat material was still present in the finished insert bore. The hard seat material cut smaller than the remaining ally. I got it as good as I could by taking many small cuts.
Heres the head ready for the new seats:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Headseatsmachinedout_zps602ffeec.jpg)
before doing this, I did all the port-enlargement that I needed to do in the valve-bowl area. A lot easier without the guides in.
Putting new seats in an ally head is a bit fraught at the best of times. You need 7-8 thou interference fit or they'll come loose. This means getting the casting bloody hot (or chilling the seats in liquid nitrogen - not something I happen to have!) And then pounding them in.
Got 3 of them in, but broke one insert so had to take a ride down to Cambridge Rebores on Friday morning to get another.
This of course meant having to re-heat the head. So in the meantime I got the new guides ready.They had to be custom-sized, so I turned the exhaust ones from a small bar of Colisbro and made the intakes out of some Rowe shovelhead ones. made them with 4 thou interference. Probably a bit too much as they were a bastard to get in there! They're not coming out!
Guides in:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Guidesin_zpsf09f081b.jpg)
Seats in:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Seatsin_zpsdb901543.jpg)
Once cool, I had to ream the guides to size. There was about 10 thou to come out of the exhaust ones and it soon became clear that my little adjustable reamer wasn't going to do the job. This Colisbro stuff doesn't like being cut, and tends to machine undersize & sieze the tool. I actually broke the reamer.
I do have a 5/16 machine reamer but was scared I'd get too much clearance, so I tried it on an offcut and it came out just right. Fortunately, I'd left the mill setup from when I'd machines the seat & guide holes, so it was simple to bolt the head back in and run the reamer thru. Came out spot-on. TFFT!
Next day I finished blending the new seats to the ports and then got the ol' valve-seat cutting gear out to finish the valve-job. Did a 3-angle job on the intakes (I already did the first angle in the lathe before I fitted the seats). On the exhausts, I had bored them to the max size I could, so no room for a 60-degree cut. A bit of lapping, and its good to go, apart from some port opening-out on the intake side.
Checked valve-stem protrusion expecting to have to cut the seats some more to get them to spec, but found they were all within 5 thou of each other! They're actually about 40 thou less than what I think is stock (1.8") at 1.760" I most definitely wont be sinking the valves deeper to get the 1.8" spec!
There it is done:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Seatscutbowlsblended_zps06b31b29.jpg)
Next; setting up the drivetrain...
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That sure is impressive, Briz. How are you feeding the oil into the crank with the roller bearing on the timing side end? The oil cannot be force fed through the bushing and into the crank with that setup.
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Awesome stuff. Any comment I'd make on tech stuff would just show my ignorance. You rock brother. :cheers: :cheers:
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Briz,
Thanks for sharing your Beezer build here. The past few days I've been doing the same type of work on English Thunder, a Vincent I hope to have ready for SW next year. Keep up the good work and photos.
John
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A Vincent Eh? Thats major-league stuff compared to this! Hope to see you with it next year.
That sure is impressive, Briz. How are you feeding the oil into the crank with the roller bearing on the timing side end? The oil cannot be force fed through the bushing and into the crank with that setup.
I'm going for end-feed WW. There is a number of ways to do it; fairly common mod on A10s. I'm going to make a new inner timing cover out of 1" ally plate as I'm planning for a few other things it will need. I'll be putting a sportster oil pump where the generator was to feed the turbo, and I'm replacing the timed breather with a reed-valve setup.
Next installment:
Linking up the engine & gearbox. I'm using a motorplate behind the primary so there is a support bearing behind the clutch. Eliminates the massive overhang on most old Brits; Must have been loads of flex when power was applied back in the day.
Used 10mm ally plate. I knew the distance between engine & box (see above) So i bolted it to the mill and first bored a hole for the crankcase register and then one for the support bearing.
Then I clamped the gearbox shell over the latter hole and using a turned plate to centralise it, I plotted the mounting holes:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/motorplatesettingupgearboxcase_zps9dc8b6ae.jpg)
Did the same for the crankcase:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/motorplatesettingupcrankcase_zps8db86c3b.jpg)
Did the necessary drilling and then using the same X & Y coordinates, I drilled the engine plates:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Engineplates_zps1e957bdd.jpg)
Heres the assembled cases in the jig. Just plonked in there at the mo' Got to figure out the best position yet.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Engineonjig_zps50c0cd5b.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Engineonjig2_zps7a4502ac.jpg)
Before I could set the engine up properly, I had to get the sprocket line established. Which meant getting a sprocket on the rear wheel; which is a BMW front wheel. Not the most straightforward job!...
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Sprocketadapter_zpsb6332289.jpg)
Interestingly, BMW - 'uber-germans' who probably sneer at our outdated imperial measurements, have made the bolt pattern PCD of their front discs.....8"! :lol: Not 200mm or anything rationally metric (unless 203.2 mm is rational!)
Meanwhile, some shiny bits turned up.
Custom length con-rods with Triumph big-end size & 17mm pin holes from R&R in Illinois.
Big thanks to Drift for handling logistics!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Rods_zpsc114298e.jpg)
Some progress made on the frame. Halfway thru doing the engine mounts here.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Frameinjig_zps92049fc7.jpg)
OK, you're thinking 'WTF? has he gone nuts?, a gooseneck??? aint this supposed to be serious? What next? 6-bend pullbacks?' :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, there's method in the madness; The turbo has to go somewhere, and in front of the frame tubes looked better to me than anywhere else. So the gooseneck allows this and keeps it from interfering with the front wheel.
Dont worry; it'll be as tough as the Forth bridge when I'm done!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Frameampengine_zpsd2979506.jpg)
There you go; looking a bit tougher!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Frame_zps3f6f03b0.jpg)
I finally gave up trying to get Avon to sponsor us. Loads of calls & emails but couldn't get a 'yes' or a 'no'. :roll:
Bought some today. Local car tyre place supplied & fitted for the same price as buying off the internet.
We have a rolling chassis now:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Rollingchassis_zps03c574e8.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Rollingchassis2_zps4d8acf75.jpg)
Which brings us up to date as of a month ago. Working to earn right now. Will be back on it in about 3 weeks. Turbo setup next.
Oh, and Dave has started on our billet crank! :-D
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Briz, did you get rid of that goofy taper and woodruff key where the clutch attaches to the main shaft? That setup could not transmit much power. If you did, show some details. We never figured out that one. Sometimes the two parts were tack welded together and we ground the tack off to take everything apart.
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Yeah; I'm using a AMC/Norton gearbox. Which has a splined shaft.
Not a big fan of tapered shafts, as I might have mentioned!
If I was using a BSA 'box, I'd have swapped in an earlier plunger mainshaft which is splined and will take a norton clutch.
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Been doing plenty lately, but only just taken any pics.
Rolled up an alloy oiltank:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/oiltank_zpsd8bd081a.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/oiltank_zpsd8bd081a.jpg.html)
Used the filler neck off the old Weslake one. Ends are domed - I had 2 pieces of domed ally from a pair of polished belt drive covers; one small, one large. So I beat out a matching pair. The smaller ones will go on the intake plenum:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/carbsampplenum_zps6423337a.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/carbsampplenum_zps6423337a.jpg.html)
Cant finish the ends until the inlet is done. You can see the dump valve underneath; its a Forge dump-to-atmosphere one off a Subaru Impreza. Had to machine up ally carb flanges to take the mk2 Amals.
From the aborted Buell XB9 project came a set of stainless headers which were perfect for making the head-to-turbo exhaust. Flak-Monkey sorted out all the stainless flanges.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/turboinplace_zps286eb0e6.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/turboinplace_zps286eb0e6.jpg.html)
Now sorting out the intercooler. Deciding where it should go. Initially, thought it would go here:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/intercoolerposition_zps41d08604.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/intercoolerposition_zps41d08604.jpg.html)
But its a bit vulnerable, so I'm now thinking of putting it acrossways up top. Its a cut down one from a Range-Rover that was kicking about.
Yesterday I made the end tanks for the intercooler. Took all afternoon; would have been easier to make them with flat sides, butI wanted them rounded off and shaped to help flow. Spouts not done as waiting for beaded tubes.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/intercoolertanks2_zps1565e998.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/intercoolertanks2_zps1565e998.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/intercoolertanks_zps3c43da41.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/intercoolertanks_zps3c43da41.jpg.html)
Waiting on other stuff too so made a start on the tank as David needs to know about fuel pump position and whether we can get it in the tank.
I want the bike to looks a bit BSA-ish, so a conventional tank is needed. Mounted way low, it wont affect the riders ability to hunker down too much.
Its an old BSA one bought for £20 a few months back. Obviously it wont fit this frame!:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/tank_zps21e7eb98.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/tank_zps21e7eb98.jpg.html)
First welded up the filler hole:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/tankfillerblankedoff_zpsc431b446.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/tankfillerblankedoff_zpsc431b446.jpg.html)
Then cut it in half:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankinhalf_zps7c6cc8c6.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankinhalf_zps7c6cc8c6.jpg.html)
Cut a filler strip out of 22g, 1.75" wide at the back, 0.75" at the front. Tacked it in place. Edge fit must be perfect as possible.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Tanktacked_zps134b7f75.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Tanktacked_zps134b7f75.jpg.html)
Tig'ed it together carefully, doing short runs here & there, mostly without using a filler rod. A few blow-thrus:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankwelded_zpsb54fe997.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankwelded_zpsb54fe997.jpg.html)
It distorted a fair bit; was I bothered? Naaah!
Carefully dressed the high spots off with a soft disc and set about hammer & dollying. One of the best tools I ever bought was a set of stake-dollys & stand off an emigrating friend. Got about 20 dollys. This one was right for this job:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/stakedolly_zps6921cba8.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/stakedolly_zps6921cba8.jpg.html)
After some bashing & fettling:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Tanksmoothedoff_zpsad74e5cd.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Tanksmoothedoff_zpsad74e5cd.jpg.html)
It'll still need a small skim of filler, but not much. Getting it perfect would take a lot longer and theres danger of overworking the metal, especially on a tank where leaks are a possibility.
A quick go-around with the snips, and its in place. Plenty to do yet.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankcuttofit_zpsf2dad590.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankcuttofit_zpsf2dad590.jpg.html)
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:cheers:
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Wow very nice! I wish i could make progress like you do hehehe
Nico :cheers:
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Briz,
Love your build, don't find many that can do it all!! I am really impressed with your motor stuff and machining and I am not even a motorcycle guy!
Rex
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Love the "old" A-10 Beezer....ran one in a chair (sidecar) road racing back in the early 1960's...lots of low end power.....won a few ....lost a few........used a early trans. shaft and a Norton Manx clutch using Barrnett plates and springs.......Your doing your build certainly the right way....Best of luck.......................Cheers
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Turbo setup is almost done, just the oil system to do; gonna put the tank underneath now.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/intercoolerrh_zps4dbf2c06.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/intercoolerrh_zps4dbf2c06.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/turboampintercooler_zpsa85d6685.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/turboampintercooler_zpsa85d6685.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/plenum_zps7a9720b7.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/plenum_zps7a9720b7.jpg.html)
Exhaust is simple! Arrow points to oxygen sensor boss.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Exhaust_zps7acd59c6.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Exhaust_zps7acd59c6.jpg.html)
Tank is done now but forgot to do any pics except the aero-filler mod:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/tankfiller_zps3a56d399.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/tankfiller_zps3a56d399.jpg.html)
Fuel system will sit all together in front of the tank. David has sourced a Mallory pressure regulator which allows us to run an EFI pump and regulate it down to 4 PSI. It has a boost-reference port so pressure keeps 4 psi above whatever boost pressure we have.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/malloryregulator_zps2279fa9f.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/malloryregulator_zps2279fa9f.jpg.html)
David's also ordered an electric fuel shutoff, and lined up a freebie fuel pump! :D
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Briz, really a nice and well documented build. :cheers:
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Briz, awesome build. Looks like things are coming along very nicely! :cheers:
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That's a lot of work.
Widening a tank is no joke.
Way to go Briz. :cheers:
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Glad to see you're using a Norton box. One less thing to worry about at Bonneville.
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Oh, I'll still manage to worry about it Bill!! :-D
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Heres a pic of the tank mounted:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankonbike_zps625a50b7.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankonbike_zps625a50b7.jpg.html)
We needed an oiltank for the turbo since we're using castor based in the engine and want to feed the turbo synthetic, and anyway we wouldn't want to bleed off any oil pressure from the engine.
Decided to put it under the turbo to allow gravity drainback so we only need a single pump. Obviously its a bit vulnerable down there so I decided it should be made out of 3mm instead of the 2mm I have in stock.
David came up with some as I had none.
Ended up a bit more complicated than I envisaged!...
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Turbooiltank_zpsed2df98f.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Turbooiltank_zpsed2df98f.jpg.html)
Here it is mounted:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Turbooiltankmounted_zps7a9a1666.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Turbooiltankmounted_zps7a9a1666.jpg.html)
We now have all the major fuel system parts; David came round with the rest of it today. We now have to figure a mounting setup that'll work and allow sensible plumbing...Which is never straightforward...
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/fuelsystemparts_zps936d921b.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/fuelsystemparts_zps936d921b.jpg.html)
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Oh, I'll still manage to worry about it Bill!! :-D
Naw! You ought to know they are unbreakable. The only one who could do harm to one was Alf Hagon and his blown J.A.P.
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Yeah, but it was Alf Hagon who taught me the trade... :-o
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Lucky you!!!! But if you want to absolutely forget about the box and clutch run tall primary gears. And use the final drive for altering the gearing. Years ago I read where Maico used a tall primary gear which reduced the torque on the clutch. I'm using 26t on the engine and 42t on the clutch (standard Norton). The clutch is a composite of old bits I have had for a million years and a couple of new plates. Five ears flogging it an no problems. And not expecting any. The less you have to worry about the more fun Bonneville is.
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Yeah, thats my thinking too; run the clutch fast and reduce the torque it has to handle. Running (belt) 48T on the engine and 72 on the clutch.
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Right!
Its an age thing I guess. Bound to happen. Strength cant be relied upon anymore, not in hard-work conditions.
Only answer is ..... a girdle! :shock:
Nearly 60 years old; what you gonna do? :cry:
The Engine! the crankcases!...what did you think I meant??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The cases are the weak spot in this engine. Not unknown for old brit cases to break just below the barrel flange.
So some extra support needed to hold things together. One or two substantial studs each side coming up from the crankcase; the primary plate on the LH side and the yet-to-be-done billet inner timing cover on the RH.
Thought awhile about this, its easy on a Triumph with its separate rocker boxes; having 2 separate pieces would tend to bend the head-studs, and a bridge that goes over the top of the rocker-box would be complicated & in the way.
The answer was to mill away the fins in the middle of the head to make room for a bridge piece.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Headfinsmilledoff_zpsff300195.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Headfinsmilledoff_zpsff300195.jpg.html)
Dug out a billet triple-clamp offcut which was perfect for the job:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Slabyokeoffcut_zps15d2eb64.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Slabyokeoffcut_zps15d2eb64.jpg.html)
A card pattern & a bit of bandsawing had a blank piece.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Cardtemplate_zps9629b37f.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Cardtemplate_zps9629b37f.jpg.html)
Loads of milling & fettling; doing the plug-holes here:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningplugholes_zpsfb8aebb9.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Machiningplugholes_zpsfb8aebb9.jpg.html)
And its done! Only took 10 bleedin' hours! :roll:
Outer stud holes yet to be done. I'll do the bottom ends first.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Headgirdleonhead_zps3931da92.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Headgirdleonhead_zps3931da92.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Headgirdleinplace_zpsc332cb62.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Headgirdleinplace_zpsc332cb62.jpg.html)
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Good thinking! Also to prevent this.................
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Briz, a current subject on my build diary is how to set the ignition timing to minimize cylinder pressure. We figured this out to deal with the issues you are talking about.
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Yeah; interesting stuff WW.
We had a good example of the law of unintended consequences......
Having made the head brace, it soon became clear that spark-plug access was now impossible! I really didn't want to be taking the tank off to get at the plugs, so drastic action was called for:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankmoddedforplugaccess_zpsac3fc144.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Tankmoddedforplugaccess_zpsac3fc144.jpg.html)
Getting the holes in the right place was ummm.. interesting!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/holethrutank_zps5b3a7284.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/holethrutank_zps5b3a7284.jpg.html)
Been making a lot of small uninteresting stuff this week, all the head studs & nuts for example:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/headstuds_zpsb18fb7de.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/headstuds_zpsb18fb7de.jpg.html)
Got fed up going thru the ARP catalog trying to find something suitable. Wish they'd list their studs in order of sizes as well as 'kits for xxxx vehicle' I know they have a form you can email with what you need, but they aren't very forthcoming with answers.
So; I made the studs from grade 12.9 allen bolts. Cut the heads off & screwcut 10x1mm threads. I wanted to use fine threads to keep the root size as big as possible, what with cut threads being less good than the rolled (10x1.5) threads, so that the ones I cut were stronger than the factory rolled threads.
I made a few more than needed (bound to lose some nuts :roll: ) So I did a bit of testing. drilled & tapped a 10mm thread thru a bit of 1" ally plate, screwed a stud in and with a spacer to replicate the head thickness, I set to with the torque wrench & micrometer.
Interesting; at 20 ft-lbs, the stud stretched .003". At 40 it stretched .005", 48 = .006". And so on every 5 ft-lbs or so stretched it another thou.
Each time, I slackened it off before the next 'pull'. At 60 ft-lbs the stud had permanently stretched half a thou, the point at which ARP fasteners reckon a fastener should be scrapped.
Kept on at it, to try & make it fail. 80 ft lbs pulled the stud .011" but it never made it to 90.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Brokenstud_zpsdc7a897f.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Brokenstud_zpsdc7a897f.jpg.html)
It broke where you'd expect, at the end of the coarse thread. My cut threads came thru OK. At all times, there was only 1xD of thread engagement in the nut.
So; conclusions: the studs are good enough for the job, and to get the optimum stud-stretch, which is 6 thou, a torque of 40-45 ft-lbs is needed. The thermal expansion of the ally head means we should stay on the cautious side.
The head hold-down is now almost finished. RH side yet to complete. Heres the LH:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/LHheadhold-down_zps8f34b353.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/LHheadhold-down_zps8f34b353.jpg.html)
Got started on the inner timing cover today. A bit time consuming doing all the holes. Here I am doing the hole for the intermediate pinion bush:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Machininginnertimingcover_zps44ac4b52.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Machininginnertimingcover_zps44ac4b52.jpg.html)
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Nice chunks of alloy you have there Briz! Even nicer what you have done with them!! Looking forward to seeing it and you on the salt. This time will be a winner.
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Briz, that's the spirit.
Making all your own stuff is cool.
I love the plug access hole, first one I've seen. That's innovation.
Excellent engineering. :cheers: :cheers:
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Thanks guys!
More progress...
Had word back from Matt Schuss. He says the basic fixed-advance ignition system I had in mind; using a HD pickup plate with a crank-trigger and a simple bosch ignition amplifier will be fine by him. Which saves a sack of dough over having to sort out a magneto or similar. (I already have all the bits)
Been doing the billet inner timing cover and the turbo oilpump. Turned out to be a bit of a long job what with the (RH) head hold-downs too.
I added a few more holding-down fastener locations to cope with the pull of the head studs, including a 3/8 bolt where the old breather hole was.
Note the stock rotary breather is deleted and replaced by a reed-valve (off a Piaggio scooter!). This means it'll exit positive crankcase pressure whenever its there rather than when a valve opens. Exit is at the top.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/billettimingcover_zps241af1a3.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/billettimingcover_zps241af1a3.jpg.html)
The turbo oil pump is a cut-down sportster one. I shortened it and just left the old return stage. Blanked off the original outlet and turned off the drive gear & welded on a belt pulley.
The job was complicated by the need for a pressure relief valve which I had to make.
First I worked out that 40psi acting on a 12mm piston made for a pressure of about 7.5 lbs. Found a likely looking spring and set a 7.5-ish lb lump of steel on it which compressed it 10mm. So I machined everything so that with 10mm piston movement, the excess pressure bleeds off back into the pump inlet side.:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/oilpumpparts_zpsa6fd633f.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/oilpumpparts_zpsa6fd633f.jpg.html)
Assembled:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/oilpump_zps6905c0e9.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/oilpump_zps6905c0e9.jpg.html)
And with the drive in place:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/oilpumpdrive_zps9c25ed7d.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/oilpumpdrive_zps9c25ed7d.jpg.html)
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Beatiful work man.
Great pics.
I thought you guys were all under water by now. :-D
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Not here, thankfully. West Norfolk is the dryest part of the UK. The wind has taken out a few fencing panels though.
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The Norfolk Broads?. Dry?.
I tested a F3 car at Snetterton once. Are you near the track?.
Good to hear you're not inundated. :cheers:
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'Bout 25 miles from Snetterton. And 60-odd miles from the Broads.
By 'dry' I meant lowest rainfall, which is just as well as this is very low-lying terrain here.
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Good to hear.
I can't comment on the rain in the UK. The two weeks I was there in 81 I never saw a drop or even a cloud.
:lol:
Is the day job building custom bikes?.
Regards, Mike.
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Cool stuff Briz! I'm no bike guy, but I know good fab skills when I see them. The oil pump setup is trick. Looking forward to see this thing run, and keep up the good work! :cheers:
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Briz, This is interesting stuff, quite innovative. How do you adjust your timing? Isn't the mag drive behind the reed valve? Keep the updates comming.
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I'm not using a mag at all Vinsky. I'm using a crank-triggered dual-fire fixed advance electronic setup. Easy to adjust, and you can do it with a strobe-light.
Did it before on my street BSA (but with an advance curve) like this:
(http://www.customcycledevelopments.com/images/BSA%20ignition.jpg)
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That is some great looking work Briz! I wish I had the resources to put out some parts like that. Very nice! :-)
Scottie J
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Cheers Scottie!
Done the final piece in this timing-side jigsaw...the crank oil feed. Just a small chunk of ally, but a whole days work!
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Crankoilfeed_zps95dfeab0.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Crankoilfeed_zps95dfeab0.jpg.html)
There will be an oil seal behind the circlip:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Crankoilfeedunderside_zpsb4a8573c.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Crankoilfeedunderside_zpsb4a8573c.jpg.html)
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Just imagine Briz and Wobblywalrus getting together on a project. :evil:
That would be something.
I love bikes but my knowledge on motors is more two stroke related.
The mods you guys get into blows my mind. :cheers:
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Most of the drivetrain engineering is done, so I've been doing cycle parts.
The original idea was to do a seat/tailpiece. But the rule change that requires the rim to be fully visible from the side caused the change to a conventional fender & seat.
Regular customer Scouse Tony gave us an unwanted alloy Zodiac one...but it was 11" wide! So I cut 6" out the middle.
Simple stainless sissy-bar is there purely for lifting & pushing duty, of which there seems to be quite a bit out on the salt!
Rear-sets are straight off the Weslake.
Brake torque arm, seat base & battery carrier also done. And I re-did the rear tank mount setup. Just too ugly before.
Just the fuel system parts to mount now & its powdercoat time.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Fenderampcycleparts_zpsbcd98251.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Fenderampcycleparts_zpsbcd98251.jpg.html)
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Looking Good! 8-)
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We've been informed that we have to get the bike ready for shipping by the end of May, which is about 3 weeks sooner that we reckoned on :-o
I've had to attend to paying work, so David has taken over. He's got the fuel system stuff mounted:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/flak_monkey/Bonneville%202014/P1040346_zpsb8e95454.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/flak_monkey/Bonneville%202014/P1040347_zpsac119cf7.jpg)
The sheetmetal painted (in primer here)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/flak_monkey/Bonneville%202014/m_P1040351_zpsbcd2f548.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/flak_monkey/Bonneville%202014/m_P1040350_zpsaa80bdae.jpg)
And the frame powder coated:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Framepowdercoated_zps4dbecd55.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Framepowdercoated_zps4dbecd55.jpg.html)
The cylinders have been nikasil coated and are on the way back.
And a heap of bits has been polished, some of which are off getting anodised.
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Briz,
This looks like another impressive build. Pretty hard to out do the Weslake lsr build, but I really look forward to seeing and watching it run.
Hope your notice of the early shipping date won't affect your salt time.
Good Luck
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Briz, you're a hard grafter. :cheers:
I'm exhausted just looking. :-D
Looks great man.
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Workin' like crazy on customer orders at the mo', but we have the anodising back as of friday so today David & I did a bit of assembly.
We got the Norton gearbox rebuilt and got it and the forks on the frame:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Assemblybegins_zps24dc0f62.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Assemblybegins_zps24dc0f62.jpg.html)
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Nice forks and sturdy axle-clamps.............those legs must have paper-thin walls 8-) 8-)
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They're off a Honda CBR1000, shortened 5". Its one of the parts we reused from our Weslake. The 41mm tubes are about 2.5mm wall.
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A month since I last updated, largely consisting of banging my head against a wall.
Our billet crank has turned into a frustration-monster!
Dave, who is making it needed to outsource rough-grind, balance, nitride and final grind. His normal place, Farndon Engineering, were overbooked. We needed somewhere with a Schou-grinder - which can do stroke-correction.
Called around, Gosnays in Essex said they could do it all in 2 weeks, so Dave took it there straight away. But a week in, they'd only done the rough-grind. They then proceeded to place as many obstacles in our path as they could think of! It became clear that they were farming-out the balancing and the nitriding. The balance was problematic, it needed about a pound of metal adding to the counterweights or a pound off the journal area.
This was going to have to be sent off to another place to get done. They wanted to drill & insert carbide slugs.
The bloke at Gosnays was a real PITA and wouldn't put us in touch with the balancer. We finally got him to pass our number on to him to call us back. Which he did. Seemed a lot more helpful. Wish I'd got his number.
I told him we could do the work over the Easter weekend and get it back to him for Tuesday. But The crank was already with this other firm, and they were shut for the weekend so we'd have to wait till Tuesday to get it back.
Tuesday came and the Gosnays-jerk called. Apparently this 3rd firm could do it by the end of the week and it'd cost us £600!!! Told him we could do it instead, (David sourced some carbide slugs) but he didn't want to know. So we arranged to pay for the rough grind and get it back.
Gosnays have proved to be totally unhelpful. Probably OK for regrinding a truck crank, but hopeless if you need someone to work with you.
Dave didn't get it back till Thursday. He's got another balancer, but we learned on Monday he was going to take 3 weeks.
Tuesday I drove & got the crank & paid Dave, and dropped it off to Basset-Down (one of the best known UK balancers) who would balance it for early next week. Then it'll be straight round to Cambridge Rebores who agreed to final-grind it the same day.
We're not bothering with the nitriding now; no time.
A complete clusterfuck. And an object lesson in the timewasting effect of outsourcing! Each time it goes to another party for work costs about 4 days extra even if they cant do it.
We have to get the bike finished, tested, dyno'd and at the shippers by May 28th. I'm not optimistic and this crap has pissed me off totally with the whole project.
But were locked into an unstoppable trainride now. A train that might well crash & burn.
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Briz, I feel your pain - all too well. A handful of years ago I wanted a billet stroker crank for my ZX12. It already had a slightly odd cylinder spacing issue, and nobody that we could find in the US wanted to make it. So off to Farndon went the order. We (the builder and I) were told it'd be about 6 - 10 weeks after receipt of our payment in full. The amount they charged was awfully high, I think. I'll share that number with you - but not here in public. Let me know if your curiosity needs to be satisfied.
By the time a full year had passed without them doing squat we went so far as to have the US Embassy start looking into the reason Farndon had accepted our money but not done the work they'd promised. We'd got nothing but promises and comments like "It's in the rough grind stage" or "It's going to be xyxyx'ed next week" and so on, but as far as we could tell -- they didn't start on it 'til the embassy got nosy at them. They were spectacularly difficult to reach by phone and emails weren't responded to.
But -- the price they asked was very high, so I don't blame them for not making it in a timely manner. WHAT? I sure did get disappointed and DID blame them and haven't yet got over my anger with them. We did eventually get the crank, by the way, and it's in the motor now and running fine on motor only. We've now got issues with the MoTeC and aren't sure that spraying nitrous would be wise until we're more confident that all's well with the electronics.
But it does run nicely with the billet crank. At least that much is good. :roll: I hope your crank issues get completely sorted and finished so you can have the most competitive motor you could want - this year, too.
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The train is still on the tracks................just running a little late :x :x
I'm on my third source for valves and 4th for an affordable ignition system............and apparently someone else bought the last Bridgestone tire of my particular need before I knew they quit making them. But I've got more time than you :-D :-D :-D
With all you have accomplished so far..............you'll just have to 'git 'er done :wink: :wink: :wink:
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Whew! Farndon sound like a nightmare to work with Slim! I'm impressed that the US embassy is prepared to intervene in such matters. I'm pretty sure any UK embassy would tell you 'thats your problem, get lost'!
Finally!!! after 10 months, about a thousand miles of driving about and WELL north of a grand...we have a crankshaft! Thanks to Dave Branch for making it, Basset-Down for the quick balance job and Cambs Rebores for the (also quick) final grind. And a big raspberry to Gosnays for being obstructive time-wasting jobsworths!
Now we can get on with things.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/CRANK_zpsd43056a7.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/CRANK_zpsd43056a7.jpg.html)
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Briz, I was reading some of your earlier posts. Our Hinckley triumph Bonnevilles use 41mm fork tubes and we toss the thinner tubes and put on ones with 3.175mm wall thickness, made by Forking by Frank, in Evanston Illinois. The price is reasonable and the thicker tubes get rid of a lot of flex. They are 27% thicker.
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Dont think flex is an issue with ours WW. We used these same forks on the Weslake last time and had no handling issues.
Forking by Frank seems to be the only game left in town for custom tubes. I used to make them here, but the cost of hard-chroming made it unviable.
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Precision Crank..........and its pretty too 8-) 8-) 8-)
Custom forks can be sourced from numerous shops...........including manufacturers of hydraulic-rams. One shop in Milwaukee just refinished a set of pitted Ceriani units that now look like new.
Briz......my brother-in-law is a BIG BSA fan......mostly A10 models. He will be looking for you in the pits.
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Cool; we'll look out for him!
Getting there; not plain sailing! Sometimes seems like every last bolt is fighting me!
David got most of the wiring done today. We just have the fluid lines & the cables to do really. Waiting on fittings.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/assembly3_zpse07742a5.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/assembly3_zpse07742a5.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/assemblycontinues_zps4ca4d6d1.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/assemblycontinues_zps4ca4d6d1.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/assembly2_zps51ff0b8f.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/assembly2_zps51ff0b8f.jpg.html)
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WOW :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
That was a fast assembly 8-) 8-) 8-)
It's going to fly..........in more ways than one but hopefully in the right direction :-D :-D
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It can be seen that you have been working on bikes for a very long time. Nothing is amateur about this build.
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Briz, that's just fantastic and even without Bo's comment it shows you know your stuff,
What gave it away?.
The bottle of blue Loctite in the foreground. :-D :-D
Great build man, great build. :cheers: :cheers:
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Looking great Briz! Such a cool scooter. Top notch man! Can't wait to see it on the salt! :cheers:
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Thanks guys! We used red, blue & green loctite on this build!
We got a good deal done this weekend. About half a dozen small tasks to do before we try fireup.
Some pics:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Offbench2_zpsfa471203.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Offbench2_zpsfa471203.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Offbench4_zps54c6def1.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Offbench4_zps54c6def1.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Offbench3_zps67c2ef71.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Offbench3_zps67c2ef71.jpg.html)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s189/brizccd/Bonneville%20beezer/Offbench_zpsb27c40f1.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/brizccd/media/Bonneville%20beezer/Offbench_zpsb27c40f1.jpg.html)
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Sometimes a motorcycle just looks right!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pete
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I agree PJ! That thing is cooler than the other side of the pillow! :cheers:
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Wow :cheers:
Pete
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Things aint looking great.
We had it running a few times. We cant stop it flooding.
Dyno session yesterday was abortive.
Amal carbs dont like fuel pumps! even adjusted down to 1psi or less its hit or miss. Reducing float-needle seat from 4mm to 2mm hasn't helped. We could go down to 1.6mm but I dont think thats enough to feed a blown methanol engine.
Floats are too small. Not enough buoyancy.
If we cant fix this, we're not going to make it for this year. Container loading date is next wednesday.
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I understand how you feel Briz, I was in the same boat a while back
This was my solution
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa399/Blowncbr/PowerJet_zps631eda6e.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/Blowncbr/media/PowerJet_zps631eda6e.jpg.html)
The Mikuni floats, needle , seat and associated fuel level devices were replaced by the Holley, which will handle 5 PSI
You could work on a similar setup on your animals while the bike makes it's way to Bonneville ? , Just make sure you have the room for Holley bowls.
Tiny
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Briz,
I've had good luck running S&S supers on my Kawasaki turbo drag bike. Also ran Rivera Engineering's modified 40mm Su carbs on the same motors, both with fuel pumps. Good luck.
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Briz, sometimes it is the combination of vibration and pressure that causes the problem. As an experiment, try mounting the carbs so they do not vibrate and see if the problem persists.
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I understand how you feel Briz, I was in the same boat a while back
This was my solution
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa399/Blowncbr/PowerJet_zps631eda6e.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/Blowncbr/media/PowerJet_zps631eda6e.jpg.html)
The Mikuni floats, needle , seat and associated fuel level devices were replaced by the Holley, which will handle 5 PSI
You could work on a similar setup on your animals while the bike makes it's way to Bonneville ? , Just make sure you have the room for Holley bowls.
Tiny
Tiny, that's a very clever mod. Go you good thing!!!! :-D
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Briz, I am not sure of the specific gravity of the fuel you are using. In some cases the floats need to be dropped if the fuel is significantly lighter or there is a need to overcome pressure at the float valve.
One thing to try is to tap a clear hose into the bottom of the float bowl and to run it up alongside the carb. The fuel level in the hose is the same as it is in the float bowl. Try it with gasoline in the carb first to see where it should be. Then, try it with the fuel and adjust the floats till they give the same height when the bike is running. Remember, the deeper the float is pushed down into the fuel the more pressure it puts on the needle.
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A T-valve in the feed line to he carb can be adjusted to shunt fuel back into the tank and this will reduce the fuel pressure at the float needle.
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Thanks for all the advise guys. We do have a recirculating pressure regulator, and the problem exists without the engine running.
I really like that Holley float chamber idea, I'd like to try it sometime. No time now though.
Dave Branch came up with the simplest idea....switch the fuel pump off until we leave the line! The float chambers hold enough to idle a fair while and can be topped up by 'blipping' the pump.
So we rewired the kill switch to just kill the pump; we still have the lanyard to shut everything down.
It works...well enough anyway. We made a short run up a nearby driveway. I think we're going to bring it along & give it a shot.
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That's the way to do it -- take it and try it. And it's way fun and challenging to do work on a race vehicle at the salt. If nothing else - there isn't a tool known to man that isn't available in someone's pit. See you on the salt.
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SSS...........I think Briz already owns more tools than most.............and certainly knows how to use them :-)
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No doubt about his abilities, but if he's going to be zillions of miles from his home shop -- he'd likely want to borrow some since they can't all fit in the container. :-D
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Yeah; you aint kidding! Inevitably forget something crucial.
Fortunately, team-mate Shaun is the worlds best at finding & borrowing stuff! We call him 'chief blagger'
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A short video from yesterday's fire up.
http://youtu.be/Fc4q4Z7JDR0
It's being packed up tomorrow ready to be loaded into the container on Wednesday...
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I was glad to see the clutch/belt/drive(?) cover laying over by the station wagon. Hope it ships, too.
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LOL! yeah, Its on there now.
Bike is now in the hands of the shippers. See you all at the salt!
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With months to spare. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
You rock man.
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Awesome Briz! I'll be on the look out for you guys! see you in sixty some odd days!
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I wish I could say the same. :evil:
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The needle valve that works with a pressure system can be smaller than the equivalent valve for a gravity setup. It is possible to put in too large of a needle valve and it will not seal against a pressurized line. This is stuff I read yesterday when I was dealing with my own problems.
This makes sense when you consider that the upward force exerted by the floats on the needle is spread out across the needle seat and force / area = pressure. A seat with too much area results in not enough sealing pressure.
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Yeah; we realised that. Went down from a 4mm seat to a 2mm. Still flooded though!
The day the bike shipped, we received from Amal a pair of deep floats intended for pumped applications. I put them in the toolbox as we were loading the pallet. We'll try them when we get there.
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Time to come out of hibernation!
We're definitely coming back this year, so with a heap of paying work out of the way, we dusted off the ol' BSA and got started on some fuelling mods.
Inspired by Generatorshovels setup a page or 2 back, we scrounged a junk Holley carb off a fellow rodder and got the floatbowl set up thus:
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11015098_1571025716508049_7654475555028873936_n.jpg?oh=30d87c355bba77455e035d9cf53ffbe4&oe=5657B1AB)
No leaks! pic shows it holding a steady 4psi.
Rigged up a clear tube off the feed manifold to see fuel level, looks like its just about perfect. Thought I'd see how much pressure the Holley float would take; turned on the pump and kept adjusting the regulator up to an unbelievable 12psi; level rose by 5-6mm but still held it steady. Impressed!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10997382_1571025649841389_9221716019885678968_n.jpg?oh=1dde5ae46d05638ac0a7bb39bf3e92ea&oe=565676F2)
Couple more tweaks and we're ready for some testing.
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It's good to see someone willing to think outside the box, I'm glad the Holley mod worked for you too Briz :cheers:
Go crack a can 'o Bonneville whoopazz mate.
Tiny
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Such an awesome build Briz. I hope to someday have my Enfield half as cool as your Beezer. Did you ever get the chance to dyno the bike?
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Yeah Scottie...it was a disaster! Fuel everywhere!
We'll be trying again quite soon.
Tiny; you thought outside that box mate. We just copied a good idea!
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Tiny; you thought outside that box mate. We just copied a good idea!
I had a cardboard box, left it in the rain, it flopped, now everything is outside the box (living in an isolated area of OZ makes thinking mandatory)
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Hi Briz,
Glad to see progress and ideas,
See you soon,
Patrick
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Dyno session at Krazy Horse went well. Made 57HP and 72 ft-lbs torque. Only revved it to 5K, being gentle on the motor. Peaking early; turbo seems to run out of puff. Was making 12 psi of boost at 3500 rpm.
Gonna try a bigger turbo.
Only problem we had was way too much oil pressure going into the turbo. Got past the seals & made smoke at high rpm.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/1907584_337675439762491_6513004125140951166_n.jpg?oh=2f24aabed9ebdf146169c4cfa90f9256&oe=5681C565)
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Hi Briz,
Old Harry Miller 20's trick to send just the smallest necessary amount of oil to a supercharger: a long coil of small copper tube to lower the pump pressure by drag itself.
Patrick
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We got the pressure sorted; the pressure release valve wouldn't open because of hydraulic lock; oil would get behind the piston and would stop it moving far enough. Took awhile to figure it out, the valve worked fine on compressed air!
Machined some flutes 3/4 of the way along the piston.
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On the subject of oil....the engine oil rather than the turbo oil............
One thing that always bugged me was the fact that whether running here on the dyno or over on the salt, the oil is never up to running temperature when giving it full throttle for a hard pass.
Less of a problem running synthetic 5/40 or whatever, but Castrol R (or our Rock Oil equivalent) is like molasses when cold which isn't going to help circulation, and will load the oilpump bits.
So; I just bought one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290998002590?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAyNFgxMDE0/z/M78AAOxy2HFSX~I7/$(KGrHqF,!lEFJFu9PnqMBS(+I6ywSw~~60_57.JPG)
Stick it in the oil tank while waiting to run, or while its on the trailer en-route. Problem solved.....hopefully.
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On the subject of oil....the engine oil rather than the turbo oil............
One thing that always bugged me was the fact that whether running here on the dyno or over on the salt, the oil is never up to running temperature when giving it full throttle for a hard pass.
Less of a problem running synthetic 5/40 or whatever, but Castrol R (or our Rock Oil equivalent) is like molasses when cold which isn't going to help circulation, and will load the oilpump bits.
So; I just bought one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290998002590?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAyNFgxMDE0/z/M78AAOxy2HFSX~I7/$(KGrHqF,!lEFJFu9PnqMBS(+I6ywSw~~60_57.JPG)
Stick it in the oil tank while waiting to run, or while its on the trailer en-route. Problem solved.....hopefully.
One of the things the Milwaukee Midget did last year was to utilize magnetic oil pan and diff heaters, unlike years past.
2013 unheated best run 118+ mph
2014 heated best run 126+ mph
Unfortunately, higher oil temps were not the only detail differences between '13 & '14, BUT, the little details added up because he broke the I/GT record.
If it was me, I'd pay attention to EVERY detail.
Just my 2 cents
:cheers:
Fordboy
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Yeah, I saw those magnetic heaters. Cant use them on ours as there are no steel parts on the engine or oiltank! All aluminum.
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FB;
We've discussed this subject before so you might search the topics.
Basically the problem with those types of heaters is twofold--
1. the 12V heaters don't put out a lot of heat without drawing lots of current from your battery/alternator
2. AC line voltage cartridge heaters put out much more heat but the watt density overheats the oil that is in direct contact with the oil.
A better approach is to use a pad heater like those made by Minco or Watlow Electric. These spread the heat over a wide area of the oil tank wall and do not damage the oil while heating the contents. They are made in various voltages, wattages, and sizes. Some are silicone runner and others are Kapton film insulated.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Yeah, I saw those magnetic heaters. Cant use them on ours as there are no steel parts on the engine or oiltank! All aluminum.
These aren't "magnetic heaters"-- they have a resistance element (nichrome wire) inside the coils. They have wound coils simply to keep the overall size smaller, such as dipping it into a coffee or tea cup to heat the water. Nothing fancy.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Back in the "dark ages" when I raced sidecars in Europe (always cold weather unlike here at my now home in CA. and AZ.) we used the stove top (also to make a cup of coffee and tea) to preheat the Castrol R "bean oil" and then put it in the oil tank..............worked just fine.........but I am certain in this "modern age" there are better ways to preheat oil................Ah...Yes, the good old days.....................at 78 living in the past....but still alive...
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Bak189;
Sidecar racing is in a league by itself. In 1963 I travelled to Berlin on leave and saw a sidecar race on the old AVUS circuit-- cold, rainy, but there they went around the steep banked turn....the fastest bikes went up on the yellow line!
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Yeah, I saw those magnetic heaters. Cant use them on ours as there are no steel parts on the engine or oiltank! All aluminum.
These aren't "magnetic heaters"-- they have a resistance element (nichrome wire) inside the coils. They have wound coils simply to keep the overall size smaller, such as dipping it into a coffee or tea cup to heat the water. Nothing fancy.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Neil, I was referring to the magnetic oil pan and diff heaters that Fordboy was talking about in the previous post.
FB;
Basically the problem with those types of heaters is twofold--
1. the 12V heaters don't put out a lot of heat without drawing lots of current from your battery/alternator
A better approach is to use a pad heater like those made by Minco or Watlow Electric. These spread the heat over a wide area of the oil tank wall and do not damage the oil while heating the contents. They are made in various voltages, wattages, and sizes. Some are silicone runner and others are Kapton film insulated.
I was thinking more of plugging into the support vehicle rather than using the bikes electrical system.
I'll look into these pad heaters too, thanks.
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FB;
We've discussed this subject before so you might search the topics.
Basically the problem with those types of heaters is twofold--
1. the 12V heaters don't put out a lot of heat without drawing lots of current from your battery/alternator
2. AC line voltage cartridge heaters put out much more heat but the watt density overheats the oil that is in direct contact with the oil.
A better approach is to use a pad heater like those made by Minco or Watlow Electric. These spread the heat over a wide area of the oil tank wall and do not damage the oil while heating the contents. They are made in various voltages, wattages, and sizes. Some are silicone runner and others are Kapton film insulated.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Neil,
I remember your comments from prior to Speed Week 2014.
The mag heaters are 120v, run off an aux generator while we are in line. It was a cobbled together system that provided some heat where there was none before. Chris will need to do something else for the next go round because the "new" engine is all alloy.
Since the heaters were NOT in direct contact with the fluids, there was no danger of localized overheating.
The next permutation will probably be 120v Wattlow pads, or the like, still using the 120v generator. But with a better plug'n'run requirement.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Briz, sorry for the thread hi-jack. I'll buy you a cold one if we meet up on the Salt in 2016. And a cold one for you too Neil.
:cheers: :cheers:
F/B
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FB;
Back in the Can-Am days we plugged in a patch heater that was on the outside of the M8C dry sump oil tank and let it run overnight. In the morning the oil was nice and hot. I forget the wattage but it was probably around 100W. Since AC outlets on the salt are hard to come by this may not be an option.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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On the subject of (oil) heating: I have used a battery heater for heating many things. You might not be able to find one unless you live in a pretty cold climate.
It's pretty much a heating pad (like for your sore muscle) that's about the width of the battery's height and covered with a crud and acid-proof material. Wrap it around the battery and tie-wrap it in place (the entire thing is about 2' long) and then plug it into 120VAC. Not lots of watts, but it keeps the battery way warmer than ambient - and the engine cranks much faster with the warm battery. I don't know if it gets to 150F or whatever you might want for the oil, but it sure as heck will get the cold morning oil warmed a good part of the way to where you want it before a run.
Try an auto parts store or an old--style hardware store - or maybe a farm supply store.
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Briz,
try any of the go-faster guys from drag racing. Ask for a nitrous bottle heater kit.
Runs off 12VDC and will heat a 5lb nitrous bottle to 60*C in about 20 minutes.
HTH
Neil
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Thats a thought too....cheers.
We've often thought what would have happened if speedweek last year hadn't been rained off. How would it have run?
Well, I think the turbo would have seized somewhere into the first run!
We got the new turbo today...took the old one off to find a twisted ribbon of metal protruding from the exhaust. Took the pipes off and it was clear what it was; the exhaust sealing rings had disintegrated! all 3 of them. Another pull on the dyno last week and it would have been in the turbo. How in hell do you predict something like that? We wont be using that type of seal again!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10923263_340882642775104_7010109484733381447_n.jpg?oh=359998a9135f364d1083d2886640ed87&oe=568186A4)
New & old turbos:
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10676159_340882509441784_2497125618789602586_n.jpg?oh=87d84137f60dde1623d928a45093e832&oe=563D76E5)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10981749_340882502775118_855600554375413983_n.jpg?oh=e6ae2edc7efe991e777767943a123514&oe=563C6B00)
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Back in the day, the crew used to pre-heat the castor oil (not Castrol) on a stove and add it just before engine start.
What days?
1914 BMW biplane...
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My boys heat up their field rations with something that uses a chemical reaction instead of fire. This weekend I will talk to them and ask about it.