The were something like 146 new records set - but strangely enough, 96 or so were by bikes and the rest by cars/trucks. The usual is just the opposite of that -- lots more car records than bikes. n I don't know why there's a difference and none was offered.
|
I understand this. It’s called cherry picking. You find an open record or a slow record and run for it. But it’s hardly competitive. I give everybody credit for coming out and setting a record. It’s not the easiest thing to do, even on an open record.So , which is it? Are these records that should be considered cheap, easily obtained and sub-parr. Or are they records to be proud of because they were earned honestly under the current process for setting a record?
But that’s not all.
I understand this. It’s called cherry picking. You find an open record or a slow record and run for it. But it’s hardly competitive. I give everybody credit for coming out and setting a record. It’s not the easiest thing to do, even on an open record.
I am confused, or do not get the point presented. At one time all records for cars and bikes were open. Someone had to fill in the blanks. Now the open record is gone and those that want to up the speed will have to work a little harder. As far as push rod VS non-push rod, someone realized the push rod engines could not compete with overhead cam engines and divided the classes. Lump them together and the majority of push rod bikes might as well retire.
I could be wrong and please correct me if I am. When Cliff Gullett broke the S-F 500cc record in 2008, it had been held by J. Thomas since 1958. Instead of removing Thomas' name from the record, they reclassified it to S-PF so he is still in the book. This has been talked about happening on the S-F 1000cc record. A current 1000cc overhead cam Streamliner should be able to break the record easily. If it does, the current record will be reclassified to S-PF or S-PVF so the current record holder will stay in the book.
As far as smaller engines running faster than bigger engines, it happens every meet with cars and bikes.
I really don't get the point to this thread :-)
I have met a lot of good racing folks out on the salt. Each and every one seem to have dedicated a lot of time and effort into building and preparing their vehicle for racing.
It takes the same effort and thinking to build some of the 50MPH vehicles as it does for the much faster cars and bikes. To me every class has it's own challenges, and there is no way I'd belittle anyone's accomplishment to run and set a class record, no matter what the class.
I see it as do the best you can do, and if there is already an established record in the class, go after it with " both feet ".
Thankfully there are still folks that are willing to put out the effort, or the sport couldn't exist much longer.
If you don't like what's going on, maybe you should look in the mirror.
Rouse
Well Dean is doing his job... stirred the scooter pot and got y'all talking and thinking.
I think one point made is that there's not much need for additional bike classes -- such as 1, 2, 3, 4-cyl. divisions along with 2, 4 and 5(Isky)-stroke classes. There are enuf holes to put you pigeon in.
Weren't ALL records open once ?
But that’s not all.
I understand this. It’s called cherry picking. You find an open record or a slow record and run for it. But it’s hardly competitive. I give everybody credit for coming out and setting a record. It’s not the easiest thing to do, even on an open record.
As far as disparity-
How about the fact cars guys can run almost any engine they want-car, bike, atv, sled, jet, etc. Yet motorcycles are limited to motorcycle only engines.
If the rules are changed so cars can only use car engines, there would be lots of records for the car guys to "buy" or "cherry pick".
Or the concerned individual could build a bike himself.
The absolutly most horribly difficult record I ever set was 98+ mph on an open record in 1000cc MPS-P...Wobbly, you think that was difficult??? We upped the 100cc APS-BF with a 1967 Yamaha 3 speed trail bike motor
As far as disparity-
How about the fact cars guys can run almost any engine they want-car, bike, atv, sled, jet, etc. Yet motorcycles are limited to motorcycle only engines.
If the rules are changed so cars can only use car engines, there would be lots of records for the car guys to "buy" or "cherry pick".
Or the concerned individual could build a bike himself.
are you drinking tonight ? What are you talking about maybe 5% of the car classes if not less?
Nope, not drinking. I just think there are few car engines for the H,I,J,K engine classes-therefore it would be hard to set a record without the bike engines. That would translate to some open/soft records.
I am not trying to fan the fire, just trying to understand the original post.
Maybe the cars should all add a sidecar class
Maybe the cars should all add a sidecar class
If you do Stan you might get to be on French TV. All it takes is three wheels.
http://videos.tf1.fr/auto-moto/plein-phare-sur-la-speed-week-de-bonneville-2013-8248733.html
So I guess we should have more record opportunities. The bikes now have almost double the number that cars do. Maybe the cars should all add a sidecar class and double up to catch up.
I remember (?), i think it was JD years ago, that said we might consider using our entry number for our record. And every time ol' 5669 went faster, he had a new record.
Jim Lattin would take issue with this -- I think he runs four vehicles under #69 from time to time.
Car Entries Car Records Bike Entries Bike Records Total Entries Total Records Timed Runs % cars that set a record % bikes that set a record | 2006 330 122 103 72 433 194 2018 37% 70% | 2007 381 96 181 77 562 173 2278 25% 43% | 2008 368 110 162 65 530 175 2488 30% 40% | 2009 381 132 179 107 560 239 3108 35% 60% | 2010 381 105 180 58 561 163 2852 28% 32% | 2011 368 94 198 69 566 163 3152 26% 35% | 2012 384 89 202 76 586 165 3050 23% 38% | 2013 pending 373 58 208 93 581 151 2728 16% 45% | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | total 2966 806 1413 617 4379 1423 21674 | avg 370.75 100.75 176.625 77.125 547.375 177.875 2709.25 27% 44% |
| # 1962B 7960B 1960B 1476B 476B 977B 8269B 1648B 735B 931B 2931B 376B 286B 3286B 3751B 375B 823B 3523B 1016B 9011B 901B 7134B 810B 5154B 1358B 3358B 445B 3358B 3350B 4451B 370B 3399B 574B 474B 571B 579B 576B 679B 6779B 7053B 7052B 740B 3414B 2169B 2469B 3419B 3418B 1800B 1803B 9876B 536B 7865B 1134B 8761B 7734B 876B 621B 1621B 1602B 5777B 5779B 5771B 5778B 8658B 8688B 865B 8608B 969B 867B 330B 209B J 837B 540B 1627B 4158B 4997B 9317B 632B 1189B 665B 1021B 1580B 1582B 194B 1141B 1581B 797B 858B 7919B 8080B 8081B 1114B 1102B 3412B 1110B 1856B 6661B | Engine 100 CC 100 CC 100 CC 100 CC 100 CC 1000 CC 1000 CC 1000 CC 1000 CC 1000 CC 1000 CC 125 CC 125 CC 125 CC 125 CC 125 CC 125 CC 125 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1350 CC 1650 CC 1650 CC 175 CC 175 CC 175 CC 175 CC 175 CC 175 CC 175 CC 175 CC 175 CC 175 CC 2000 CC 2000 CC 2000 CC 2000 CC 2000 CC 2000 CC 2000 CC 2000 CC 250 CC 250 CC 250 CC 250 CC 250 CC 250 CC 250 CC 250 CC 250 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 350 CC 500 CC 500 CC 500 CC 500 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 650 CC 750 CC 750 CC 750 CC 750 CC 750 CC U | Body APS-VF SC-VF SC-VG APS-BF APS-BG ? APS-F APS-F M-PBF MPS-VBF MPS-VBG APS-VG MPS-BF MPS-BG MPS-VF MPS-VG M-VF M-VG APS-PG APS-VF APS-VG A-VG M-PBG MPS-PG MPS-VBF MPS-VBG MPS-VG M-VBF M-VBG M-VG A-PBF APS-PG SC-PF SC-PG A-PG APS-PF APS-PG M-BF MPS-BF MPS-VG M-VF P-P A-BG A-PF A-PG APS-BF APS-BG SC-BF SC-BG SC-PF A-PF A-VF M-BG M-PF MPS-BG MPS-PF MPS-VF M-VF SC-G A-PBF A-PBG APS-PBF APS-PBG APS-VF APS-VG A-VF A-VG M-BF M-BG MPS-BF MPS-BF MPS-BG SC-VF SC-VF SC-VG A-VF A-VF MPS-BG SC-VG P-PP P-P A-PF A-PG APS-PBG APS-PF APS-PF MPS-PF P-P SC-PG SCS-F SCS-G A-PBF A-PBG M-PBG P-PPB SC-PFG A-PBG | Entry Name SALINE TYSON SALINE TYSON SALINE TYSON TRI-MAC SPEEDSTERS TRI-MAC SPEEDSTERS PFLUM & WAGNER RACING JIM HOOGERHYDE SFMC SAN DIEGO MOTORCYCLES DAVE ARNOLD PAUL FRIEBUS PAUL FRIEBUS STEPHEN ROBERTS BMAC LAND SPEED RACING BMAC LAND SPEED RACING KARL MEREDITH KARL MEREDITH PRAIRIE DRIFTERS TIM MC LAUGHLIN DESTINATION/HUFF DOUBLE VISION DOUBLE VISION PERFORMANCE INDIAN LAURENT DUTRUEL TEAM SUBTLE CROWBAR BONNEVILLE BOBBER BONNEVILLE BOBBER BOB LEWIS BONNEVILLE BOBBER BONNEVILLE BOBBER BOB LEWIS O.M.R.A. BIKE #1 TEAM BENNETT LSR DAROLD CUMMINGS DAROLD CUMMINGS DAROLD CUMMINGS DAROLD CUMMINGS DAROLD CUMMINGS JOHN STONER-NO SENSE LSR JOHN STONER-NO SENSE LSR RETARDED SPARKS SPECIAL RETARDED SPARKS SPECIAL PIT BULL SCOTT GUTHRIE RACING JAY ALLEN RACING JAY ALLEN RACING SCOTT GUTHRIE RACING SCOTT GUTHRIE RACING GOLD WING LYON GOLD WING LYON KUBO SPERANZA BRANT ROBINSDON SPORTSMAN FLYER ECOLE DE LA PERFORMANCE RED CUP SCREAMER CANTER/ROSENTHAL RACING RED CUP SCREAMER CANTER/ROSENTHAL RACING BROOKS MOTOR WORKS BROOKS MOTOR WORKS COREY BERTELSEN 0842 KAMPHIUS AUNT MARIA KAMPHIUS LANAPOTTR KAMPHIUS TL KELLY KAMPHIUS FRANK Z ECOLE DE LA PERFORMANCE 32110 ECOLE DE LA PERFORMANCE 32110 ECOLE DE LA PERFORMANCE 32110 ECOLE DE LA PERFORMANCE 32110 XN RACING XN RACING LOUIS WILSON XN RACING XN RACING SCOTT BAXTER BROOKS MOTOR WORKS BROOKS MOTOR WORKS SALINE TURNER-KTC PAUL FRIEBUS LE TOP RACING BROOKS MOTOR WORKS BULLET SHUNJI YOKOKAWA MARC LEININGER MARC LEININGER OLD AGE & TREACHERY LSR ANDERS JONSSON JIM LEININGER DAN WAGNER BUTLER / ACAT RACING BILL ANDERSON COSTELLA,CUNHA& BASSANO COSTELLA,CUNHA& BASSANO SCOTT GUTHRIE RACING SCOTT GUTHRIE RACING SCOTT GUTHRIE RACING SCOTT GUTHRIE RACING RICHARD KRCZAL STONEY FRITZ | Old Record open open open 48.910 81.869 ? 218.323 218.323 125.922 open open open open open 32.052 42.239 53.441 43.449 177.998 135.438 128.241 132.338 155.897 172.849 open open 160.078 open open 151.835 86.953 172.591 68.358 68.661 72.285 72.753 71.319 open open open open 99.700 172.627 169.309 169.966 open 170.465 99.058 87.947 146.196 78.048 86.715 98.475 79.198 99.445 80.758 open 75.359 120.016 open 15.851 open open 97.511 81.903 97.511 88.830 open 100.294 open open 102.643 open open 48.879 110.152 110.152 120.507 94.330 106.490 165.994 123.814 126.976 117.871 128.231 128.231 133.998 165.994 121.042 open open 96.091 111.791 129.134 open open open | Bump 1 *own record **42.179 30.469 36.744 **91.659 84.533 **185.25 221.583 *126.231 168.652 **167.944 79.220 40.357 **43.526 **82.494 75.106 **57.533 52.353 **181.397 **151.448 140.210 148.012 158.642 173.163 **149.676 **152.622 150.998 **159.42 150.548 149.496 97.916 196.843 **75.009 **74.175 **80.453 **84.324 **84.476 **75.828 73.086 **49.727 50.049 104.449 **190.736 **169.33 **172.414 **220.595 **215.853 *115.763 **97.264 **162.424 80.438 **92.221 126.607 83.148 **127.714 **85.816 82.486 **79.55 **133.324 **97.964 **96.975 **93.474 **98.873 **101.812 **86.818 106.622 **105.673 **119.103 **120.097 115.015 **121.178 68.421 **78.318 **78.428 110.729 **143.298 *106.719 **106.601 **170.828 **134.849 **130.713 110.352 *130.181 **135.891 167.319 121.553 176.547 **197.036 **128.822 **130.208 **131.298 133.625 **91.286 174.742 | Bump 2 **not pre-entered **222.756 **180.659 84.440 79.059 **61.327 123.115 **111.839 156.389 169.684 | Bump 3 222.850 170.654 | Increase x x x 42.749 2.664 x 3.260 4.433 0.309 x x x x x 50.442 36.820 7.886 8.904 3.399 16.010 11.969 15.674 2.745 0.314 x x -9.080 x x -2.339 10.963 24.252 6.651 5.514 8.168 11.571 13.157 x x x x 4.749 18.109 0.021 :-o 2.448 x 45.388 16.705 9.317 16.228 2.390 5.506 28.132 3.950 28.269 5.058 x 4.191 13.308 x 81.124 x x 4.301 4.915 9.111 16.843 x 19.803 x x 18.535 x x 29.549 0.577 1.687 22.791 12.389 0.111 4.834 11.035 3.737 -7.519 1.950 28.158 1.893 4.660 0.511 x x 32.731 18.417 2.164 x x x |
So I guess we should have more record opportunities. The bikes now have almost double the number that cars do. Maybe the cars should all add a sidecar class and double up to catch up.
I remember (?), i think it was JD years ago, that said we might consider using our entry number for our record. And every time ol' 5669 went faster, he had a new record.
Jim Lattin would take issue with this -- I think he runs four vehicles under #69 from time to time.
It’s because 29 of the records were bought. As soon as they paid the entry fee and ran on an open record.
But that’s not all.
I understand this. It’s called cherry picking. You find an open record or a slow record and run for it. But it’s hardly competitive.
I could be completely wrong but I think the car guys don't understand why there are so many engine classes in the bike category, with so few cc between.
Tom G.
...It’s because 29 of the records were bought. As soon as they paid the entry fee and ran on an open record.
..... It’s called cherry picking....
Da'fq ??? ( pardon my 'French' )
'The Worlds Fastest Cherrypicker'
I think the points that Dean made were valid ones . . .
Fuel should be faster than Gas
Blown should be faster than Unblown
Bigger should be faster than Smaller
Streamlined should be faster than un- or Partially Streamlined,
Etc. and more etc. for combinations thereof.
Works for cars, too.
I also think the bike and car record counting doesn't matter as much as the bike and car Open Record counting which is too complicated for me to figure out. That would be a significant disparity.
Stan Back
. . . and be prepared for more.
(edit . . . ) If you are a one and done, challenged an open record and won... then you are not a Bonneville racer... you are just one of the many visitors the flats get every year, you paid to go down the course. You can brag on your record until someone else runs on it and takes it. I do not say this to make your record less important, I say it because as most of us know, LSR is a lifestyle, that is what Bonneville racers do, we go back and race.
Dean made a ALOT of really good points...!!!!!!!!!
the data isnt HIS... the FACTS speak for itself.....
Decided to post on thread when Lars showed up. I was a part of the crew on his Indian effort and still remember the big Thrill Of Victory grin.
The initial post by dean struck me as an unwelcome unrequested attempt to denigrate motorcycles
Lars, you would have enjoyed our epic struggle this year.I'm sure I would have. You have no idea how saddening it was NOT being there
As usual, I had to more than once remind Bill to clean up his act. :-DYeah..I know, he's so sloppy.
We're looking forward to seeing you snatch another record when you come back. Keep in touch --
Cheers, Joe
We will try again next year. That is Bonneville.
Analysis:
fuel – faster than gas
blown – faster than unblown
partial streamlined – faster than unstreamlined
streamliner – faster than partial streamlined
bigger cc – faster than smaller cc
sidecar – well . . . sidecar. Numbers way out of proportion to the real world.
pushrod/vintage – because pushrod/vintage
We came to Speedweek for what we thought would be a slam dunk. Running on a 25 year old 225 record. Vincent vs Busa. No problem, right? Wrong!! Same body we ran 235+, 40hp more, 30lbs more torque. Wet salt, other minor gremlins and no record :-(. I did have fun! We will try again next year. That is Bonneville.
interpretation of what is "good"
(edit . . . ) If you are a one and done, challenged an open record and won... then you are not a Bonneville racer... you are just one of the many visitors the flats get every year, you paid to go down the course. You can brag on your record until someone else runs on it and takes it. I do not say this to make your record less important, I say it because as most of us know, LSR is a lifestyle, that is what Bonneville racers do, we go back and race.
Nicely said, Stainless. I have been trying to find those words for years. You couldn't have defined it any better!
octane..etal...data ARE FACTUAL points...DOES speak volumes ...opinions do as well...and they
are not the same....
opinions about the data...seems to be the rub...
Dean indeed made alot of good points....both in presenting factual data regarding classes
and records...ie "data points"...and in his analysis...
im leaving the interpretation of what is "good" to all of us to decide...
"NO similar 'cherry-picking' "facts" about
cars establishing open records are presented...mmmmm....why's that ?"
Because, if someone does the data, there are a whole lot less open car records.
Wobbly, you think that was difficult??? We upped the 100cc APS-BF with a 1967 Yamaha 3 speed trail bike motor
from 49mph set in 2008 to 91mph and out the back door at 99+. Can't wait for someone to break that one.
For the Busa to run against a Vincent in a class at Bonneville doesn't seem fair.Fair? Is that what racing is about? Racing is about running faster than anyone else WITHOUT QUALIFICATION.
Nice sentiment, however did any one notice the Manxman teams A/BF 500 and A/BF 500 records from last year
they ran 188.730 and 203.373 on an 168 record. So they toured in, put 20 on the soft gas record and 35 on soft the fuel record.
And toured on home red hat in hand
Based on the logic of this thread, every bike over 500 should now have a 203.373 minimum
Pot stirrer reporting for duty.
My son just had a baby - first grandchild. I thought it might be more important to hop on a plane then stick around here. :-DQuoteNice sentiment, however did any one notice the Manxman teams A/BF 500 and A/BF 500 records from last year
they ran 188.730 and 203.373 on an 168 record. So they toured in, put 20 on the soft gas record and 35 on soft the fuel record.
And toured on home red hat in hand
Based on the logic of this thread, every bike over 500 should now have a 203.373 minimum
UM . . . No, they ran on a 183 and 175 record in the APS class. And a very nice record it was. 203 on a 500 cc is damn competitive. And that's the point.
I don't really care that you ran on an open record. You cherry picked it, didn't you?
As an aside and I run a 250cc, there were two speeds recorded that I found in the results at Speedweek that has me scratching my head :-o
3419B 250CC M-BG Scott Guthrie Racing 206.125 212.339 220.295 210.383 214.368 220.295
3414B 250CC A-BG Scott Guthrie Racing 187.965 192.682 194.979 191.003 192.247 194.979
Can anyone enlighten me :? what exactly these Bikes/Engines are?
Pete
Hey guys, while Dean started the stir of the pot, we are all involved...
If anyone out there has not cherry picked a record... step up and declare your innocence
I think everyone getting into this actually looks at what they think is doable. That is the definition of cherry picking... find the low hanging fruit and try to grab it. It is not as easy as a lot of folks think it might be, it is not cheap no matter what you run and every record is the new "bar" that the next cherry picker will reach for.
6 pages back..Dean posted "I give everybody credit for coming out and setting a record. It’s not the easiest thing to do, even on an open record." I think many are not appreciating that.....
for example...i get asked all the time at work about..."I read about so and so she/he is a world/land speed record holder" etc...then they ask other questions, and find out more details........explaining open records...various classes...sidecars....new classes etc.....
it DOESNT diminish what they have done....it puts it in "PERSPECTIVE".....
kudos to ALL involved in LSR....strong common bond.....mad props to everyone....!
5 pages back I posted "at the end of the day......your/our satisfaction with what occurred is its own measure of success...how its viewed by others may be another realm altogether...:)
.....the records were bought. As soon as they paid the entry fee and ran on an open record.
...It’s called cherry picking....
...It’s because 29 of the records were bought. As soon as they paid the entry fee and ran on an open record.
..... It’s called cherry picking....
Really ?
I must admit that when I read it I went:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/Dafuq.gif)
Da'fq ??? ( pardon my 'French' )
Here's a news-flash for you: nothing is black/white...there are all sorts of shades of grey.
I'm one of them who according to you 'bought' a record.
First of all ; when I started out I had no clue if there was a record in my class.
In fact I thought I was to run in another class until I was told that my bike
wasn't a 'P' ( push-rod ) but a 'V' (Vintage) because my good ole' Indian have
very short ( apparently NON-) push-rods.
I spend 1½-years of my spare-time and every available cent I made, building the bike...put it in a box..
air-freight it a billion miles across the Atlantic...with the truely invaluable help from the best people in the world
run it at Bonneville...fail miserably...freight it back....spend another year building..
..air-freight it over the big pond again...run it with some success...ESTABLISH a record
...and I 'bought' that ???
Care to check how I 'bought' that ?
Be my guest:
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,5849.0.html
Sorry if this makes me ever so tinybittyslightly...how can I put it?....'miffed'.
OK enough of this. Gotta get going updating my build-thread:
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,13079.0.html
BTW: I have NO clue if there is a record in the class that my new bike will run in.
That is not what this is about for me....yes: really !
You can applaud that, you can shake your head at that , you can choose not believe what I just said.
I don't give a flying f...f....front-fork.
It's the gawdhonest truth.
WHEN eventually I check to see if there IS a record, and if it turns out there ISN'T one,
I may have to change the name of the bike, and the thread, to:
'The Worlds Fastest Cherrypicker'
.....and of course be truly ashamed of myself.
Right
BTW: for EVERY SINGLE class ( and there's a WHOLE LOT of them) in which there is a record, there must at one point back,
have been a 'Cherrypicket' who established that.
I have to add my name to the long list of "buyers"...not just that but at the bottom of my post you'll see that the record I hold is twenty miles per hour SLOWER than the Bonneville record....
tasty cherry but. :roll:
Octane,
Last night over several libations it was unanimously decided by Waldo the shop cat that the Northern Europe Cherry Pickers Association, Copenhagen Chapter sense forth referred to as NECPA be granted full honor and privileges.
Congratulations!
Remember the motto, “You can only pop that cherry once”. :wink:
Octane,
Last night over several libations it was unanimously decided by Waldo the shop cat that the Northern Europe Cherry Pickers Association, Copenhagen Chapter sense forth referred to as NECPA be granted full honor and privileges.
Congratulations!
Remember the motto, “You can only pop that cherry once”. :wink:
I bow my head and duff my cap to your cat Sir, for the honour.
Please go feed Waldo a mouse or whatever it is that cats eat.
I'm shopping today:
http://www.niftylift.com/?node=51990
I think I'll go for the 'Self Propelled' model.
Then I can just sit around ... do absolutely nothing ... and presto: I've got a record.
.
http://www.jokeroo.com/videos/cool/cherry-picking-machine.html[/url]
I saw a lot of sidecars in there.
Now here's a piece of good advise when posting on a forum;
don't post anything that you wouldn't say if you were seeing the person in real life,
eye-to-eye.
So Dean, as were are a few thousand miles from each other, please have a look here,
so you can put a face / a human being, to the guy you're 'talking to' here.
This is me:
with bike:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/2-31.jpg)
with SpeedWeek record
( Pointing to the paragraph printed in really really small letters saying
"..This record was bought, as soon as you paid the entry fee and ran on an open record,
and will be filed under 'Cherrypicking'.." ). Silly me, I should have read that. )
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/start3Deterofficieltrekordeneribogen.jpg)
doing a dance of sheer joy and happiness after establishing a record at BUB
( ".. bought. As soon as [ I ] paid the entry fee and ran on an open record.." )
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/LarsIndiandans-1.jpg)
Now tell me that you will say to me in real life ( as you did here ) the things you said.
Let's say; you walk up to me ( mentally ) on that last picture
..tap my shoulder
..say something to the effect of: ( just guessing...paraphrasing )
"Stop that dancing around. Your records was bought. As soon as you paid the entry fee and ran on an open record.
You're a cherry picker.."
Would you do that ?
.
Octane,
Last night over several libations it was unanimously decided by Waldo the shop cat that
the Northern Europe Cherry Pickers Association, Copenhagen Chapter
sense forth referred to as NECPA be granted full honor and privileges.
I tried to stay out of this because I don't race there, and those who do should decide policy. But some of y'all are overlooking one very important point. Look around. All I see is pictures, but it appears the average age is way up there.
Look at what is happening in hotrodding. The major magazines were all doing their dead level best to kill the sport by belittling any effort to join in. Entry level was $50k or so or you were soundly insulted. Old geezers took a car to a pro shop where they threw most of it away and charged 6 figures to replace it all with kit car parts, and this was pushed as the only acceptable way to enter the sport. So young folks went to cheap Japanese cars and a whole new way of looking at individualization so they could be car nuts too. I berated Freiburger for continually putting out a completely irrelevant magazine for Old Geezers Who Don't Build Cars, asking him to turn the grand old name of Hot Rod Magazine over to someone that was actually interested in hotrodding. A few months later editorial policy took a complete turn in the opposite direction, toward something actually related to hotrodding. I quite possibly saved the sport. Other magazines are still trying to kill it.
Like it or not, and whether you choose to admit it or not, Bonneville will die a slow death if you don't somehow encourage young blood. Cronyism and old geezer cliques and barriers to entry are just fine and lots of fun for those of you with insecurities, but will kill Bonneville. Yes, the gall of some people, imagine actually wanting to come to our salt and race.
You need to run ads in all the auto magazines proudly pointing out all the open records and the wonderful opportunities for beginners to come on down and get a taste of LSR. That is what it will take to save Bonneville.
Or you can Plymouth and moan about anyone that tries that, and watch young folks go race some other way, and young folks will race, while Bonneville becomes all about history and only about history.
as we are shamefully going after another open record next year
In the spirit of kicking a sleeping dog, we would all be interested to hear of Dean's efforts to cherry-pick an open bike record a few years back.
Hey Dean !... please come along and answer my post, will ya' ?!
Look at me at the last pic. I can't bloody hold that silly position for much longer....getting cramps, man
I'd like to charter the Heart of America Cherry Pickers Assn.
Or HoACPA.
Ya gotta do something with the stones.... :-D
Pickin cherries since 2001,
Sam
#6062
I have just returned home from BUB 2013 where I tried to cherry pick and buy an open record. Let's total the price of this purchase:
Used motorcycle purchased for the class record - $2200
Parts and supplies to make it legal for the class - $1500
Entry Fee for BUB (Two riders) - $1050
Gas, food, Lodging - $2000+
Seven Days leave from work ??
100's of hours of my labor Priceless
We got the record speed. But on teardown for inspection, the inspector declared the bike ineligible for the record because it had 1 mm too much wear and therefore was not a stock bore size anymore. A 30 year old bike with a worn bore. Imagine that...
So no record even after paying huge and unnecessary expenses. Wait? Wasn't I supposed to get the record after I paid for it? I want my money back.
Don
Wow Lars,
Permission request is in the post
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t24/generatorshovel/OtbackOz_zps8d3bf5db.jpg) (http://s156.photobucket.com/user/generatorshovel/media/OtbackOz_zps8d3bf5db.jpg.html)
What will the NECPA do once all the cherries have been picked ?
Tiny
PS, I guess the cat is outa the bag now, here's some test footage of some testing
http://vimeo.com/user14175033/superchargedhondamonkey
Stock bore according to the manual is 66 mm but the inspector said his micrometer measured about 67 mm. Disqualified. No record.
I can't see why any given Class has any performance based relationship to any other Class in Land Speed Racing.
Why does a Gas Record have to be slower than a Fuel Record they are totally separate Classes.
You have the choice to run in an old class that takes a LOT of smarts, skill and experience to set a record in, or you have the choice to run in a class that takes a lot less of those things,
Bill Hoddinott recently interviewed Stuart Hooper in BRN. He tells all about the build. His website is:
http://www.worldsfastestvelocette.com/
You have the choice to run in an old class that takes a LOT of smarts, skill and experience to set a record in, or you have the choice to run in a class that takes a lot less of those things,
You are making the assumption that those who run on an open or soft record are not smart enough or too lazy to bother working hard to break a record.
I'm putting a blower on the sidecar this year. The class record is open right now. Where's the challenge? First of all you have to make two passes to set the record. Anything can happen. Nothing is guaranteed. Secondly there is the challenge of seeing just how far up you can set that record. There is no rule that says you have to run slow on an open record. Nor is there a rule that says if you're smart or skillful or have a lot of experience you are not allowed to run on an open record.
P.S. Anyone know where I can pick up a Snell 05 or better paper bag so no one will know its me running on an open record?
What I read in the opening post of this thread (page 1) was Dean giving his opinion on why there were more records set by motorcycles than cars at Speedweek 2013.
In his post he mentions sidecar streamliner 8081B running 197+ on an open record. Adding the remark that had it run without a sidecar it would have been running on a 230 record. A case of a "wheel on a stick" and run on a soft record? Or is it the fact that 8081B CANNOT run as a solo as it doesn't meet the solo rule requirements. Something conveniently forgotten perhaps?
So the conclusion would be that sidecar streamliner 8081B took the 650cc streamliner sidecar class record from open to 197+ but as it was an open and therefore soft record he deserves less respect. Total and utter BS.
As the owner of a "soft" "wheel on a stick " record I'd like to toss in my thoughts...
Who can say a record is soft? Until you do exactly what another racer is attempting you really have no idea what it really takes to get there that way...
Is my personal record soft? Dunno, my bike on the street can do my record recorded speed in 3rd gear... But that's only momentary. What a bike can hit top speed wise on a freeway momentarily is completely different for a mile duration on wet salt.
From my own personal experience... Math says with the power to weight ratio and gearing I ran my bike should go much faster... But at Bonneville it won't... So are the records determined to be soft based purely on math? Because math sometimes fails us. Ask any engineer why his perfect design and figures still yield a product that fails... Because sometimes in the real world things don't work like they do on paper. There are many variables that go into the records set by the incredible people who have made it happen. Dyno numbers, math, and speculation can give you a guess of what you may achieve.... But.... The great white Dyno and that magic race way doesn't care about speculation or math or Dyno numbers... It tosses variables at you like surface changes, density, temps etc that alter what you Dyno sheet says.
Long and short, the only Man that has a right to say a record is soft is the One who breaks the record in question with the same variables... If you run in the same class to break that soft record and you have to spend 5k to do it, of course you can break it because you tossed money at it till you could overtake it... But your record breaker wasn't the same as the bike that set the soft record. You changed the variables. Now if you mimicked a vehicle, same cost, same basic build and you break that soft record then you pushed harder and you have the right you say it was soft cause you did more work with the same tools.
Basically, respect all the records no matter how fast... Someone earned it with hard work. There is no soft record, only records that someday will be overtaken.
You racers who have records, you're inspirations. Thank you fir your hard work to show what could be done...
Long and short, the only Man that has a right to say a record is soft is the One who breaks the record in question with the same variables... If you run in the same class to break that soft record and you have to spend 5k to do it, of course you can break it because you tossed money at it till you could overtake it... But your record breaker wasn't the same as the bike that set the soft record. You changed the variables. Now if you mimicked a vehicle, same cost, same basic build and you break that soft record then you pushed harder and you have the right you say it was soft cause you did more work with the same tools.
Basically, respect all the records no matter how fast... Someone earned it with hard work. There is no soft record, only records that someday will be overtaken.