Landracing Forum
Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials => Bville Motorcycle Speed Trials General Chat => Topic started by: wobblywalrus on August 18, 2013, 12:24:41 AM
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Any advice about riding on the funky salt we are seeing this year? Tire pressure? Suspension setup? How to ride? etc.
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Good topic. I have been pondering this a bunch the last couple of days I was out there last Saturday and Sunday.
I am not a professional saltoligist, but this is what I saw/felt; Driving from the end of the road to pits the salt is so much better then it was last year. Way less of those huge mushy spots and no rivers and lake. It didn't spray as much driving through it. The weird part is it sticks like glue. Seems to have a top layer that isn't part of the base. I didn't ride the course so I cant speak to that, but talking to racers it seems it is the same on course. There were certainly lots of spins.
The part that worries me a tiny bit is how chewed up our course will be after speed week because it is soft. One redeeming thought is there were lots of motorcycle records set at Speed week. Seems the cars struggled more. Except for the Poteet&Main streamliner hauled balls, so we may find out who has a well set up chassis out of our group.
I will ask what the procedure is for prepping the course between speed week and us, and if there are any thoughts about what we will face. BRB.
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Woah woah. Lets make this orderly. Not everyone at the same time.
So the BUB team preps the salt. Maybe we can get word from them in a few days. I'm sure they were out there this weekend. If not I may have word from the USFRA camp in a few.
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Our tracks run in different locations than SCTA.... we will keep you posted. I head out on Wednesday. -Linnea
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The salt on the courses got better every day during Speedweek - if it stays reasonably dry, you guys should all have a blast!
Willi
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This is what I learned from racing in the land of pointy plants. We rode over sand washes, gravel fans, and all sorts of other unstable stuff. It might apply to the salt. First, keep loose in the shoulders and arms, keep the head and shoulders level, look far ahead, grip the bike with the knees, and hold the bars lightly and let the bike find its way.
Sleeping late and not showing up at the rider's meetings was one of my bad habits. I went to one when we raced near Randsburg, I think it was. Blah, blah, etc. The meeting was boring. Then they talked about the abandoned, unmarked open mine shafts near the course and said to stay on the trail when going through some valley. Since then I go to the rider's meetings and pay attention. Usually they talk about the course and give advice.
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Good points. Drivers meeting will need to be a must do.
I am too busy watching the temp gauge to watch where I am going. I hope they at least mark any open mine holes so I don't fall in.:D
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Every year I have heard car racers complaining how bad the salt was at Speedweek only to see excellent salt at Bubs a week or so later. I do know that part of the reason for this is Dennis Manning. The man just flat out knows how to prep a track for motorcycles!! Have you ever seen a water truck wetting down the track at an SCTA event?
Also a lot of those cars that were spinning at Speedweek have front wheels that do not ride in the same track as the rear wheels. This can be really a handful to drive if the track is rutted.
I say lets just wait and see how the track looks and feels on Sunday before we start panicking.
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Who's panicked?
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Good comments from Wobblywalrus
i would add to the loose grip with don't tighten the damper too much,
unlike a road course we do not have enough grip to get a violent front end response and too tight just slows down your steering input
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It's to bad the super salt wheel packer made by Rick Vesco wasn't maintained and used to pack the soft salt. It worked for years, Ask Terry Nish.
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Knowing that Denis is already out there prepping the track lets us sleep well, and concentrate on the tasks at hand. Being - go fast - faster, and stopping safe.
I would also emphasize the importance of attending the drivers meetings - What better way is there to hear what's up with the track and the event.
Drivers/Riders meetings attendance should be mandatory in my book. :-D
Be safe, go fast, have fun, stop safe. :cheers:
See yaz in a couple days.
Jimbo
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Any word on smoke or haze from the fires out west?
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There were obvious smoke columns from the fires south of SLC during SpeedWeek - but the visibility was pretty good - especially compared to 2012. Back then there were many times when the mountains to the south and east of Bville weren't visible. I don't know how it is now - one week later - but I'll guess that the haze isn't too bad now. Good luck on that -- but it does make for kinda pretty sunrises and sunsets.
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Are there advantages or disadvantages to filling the gas tank full as per handling and weight distribution?
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Are there advantages or disadvantages to filling the gas tank full as per handling and weight distribution?
Every bike would be different depending on how you have your suspension set-up. That is not a question that can be answered unless you know how your bike is currently balanced.
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The international track was real good. It was closer to the floating mountain than it was last year. No problems at all. Denis did a real good job of location and prep.
I did see remnants of the SCTA track. It would have been pretty dicey to ride a bike over some parts. Bikes need their own track when they are at meets with cars. The car guys and gals would have shorter lines and the bike folks would feel safer. A win-win situation for both.
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My attempt at getting a weight distribution. I went to the truck stop. Everything there is set up for big rigs and not bikes. The speaker to talk to the office is way up in the air. I tried to weigh each end of the bike and there was not enough weight to get a scale reading. I also tried to weigh each end with me on it. It would not work, either. Not enough weight.
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Next I weighed the entire bike with me not on it. It is full of oil and has a full tank of gas. The scale reads 520 lbs. The weight is somewhere between 510 and 530 lbs. This seems reasonable.
The grand finale was weighing me and the bike. The weight read as an elephantine 740 lbs. This means the weight is between 730 and 750 lbs. Again, this seems reasonable.
How do you experts get the weight distribution?
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Go to a local speed shop, drag strip or dirt track. Ask around and someone will have a set of scales for setting their car up. They might let you borrow the scales. Or try they recycle /scrap yard, they might have a smaller scale you could use.
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Do any of your local produce shops have scales in the range your looking for?
Makes sure its sitting flat to get your weights then lift up one end and re-weigh the other and you can work out the height of your COG.
Cheers
jon
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Jon, could you scribble up a set of example calcs to find the CG location, both horizontally and vertically? Or point me to a good reference?
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Check out: http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=22. Should give you enough to get started.
We used it to figure the height of the center of gravity on my buddy's lakester. With a short WB like a bike I would try using the 10" min lift first then work it up from there. With the long WB it took a lot of front end lift [close to 30" IIRC] to make significant changes to the rear weight for more accurate calculations.
Ed
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How do you experts get the weight distribution?
Hey Bo, the weight will be distributed between the front and the back of the bike....what?.....I was trying to help :roll:
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Check out: http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=22. Should give you enough to get started.
We used it to figure the height of the center of gravity on my buddy's lakester. With a short WB like a bike I would try using the 10" min lift first then work it up from there. With the long WB it took a lot of front end lift [close to 30" IIRC] to make significant changes to the rear weight for more accurate calculations.
Ed
I used that program to determine the CG height of my Lakester and to mount my 'chute attach point. So far, (to 150) it hits really clean with funny stuff going on. :cheers: Wayno
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i use cheap digital bathroom scales, they cover the range of a bike untill you get realy heavy
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Check out: http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=22. Should give you enough to get started.
We used it to figure the height of the center of gravity on my buddy's lakester. With a short WB like a bike I would try using the 10" min lift first then work it up from there. With the long WB it took a lot of front end lift [close to 30" IIRC] to make significant changes to the rear weight for more accurate calculations.
Ed
I used that program to determine the CG height of my Lakester and to mount my 'chute attach point. So far, (to 150) it hits really clean with funny no stuff going on. :cheers: Wayno
I meant no funny stuff. :roll:
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The bike seemed to be light in the front at speed and it would tend to follow ruts. This last meet I did something different. I ran with a full tank of gas and sat in the front of the seat and tight against the back of the gas tank. This helped a lot. It could be a lack of ruts, too, that was making it feel more secure.
Thursday morning the bike goes down to the metal scrapper to be weighed on their scale.
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The bike seemed to be light in the front at speed and it would tend to follow ruts. This last meet I did something different. I ran with a full tank of gas and sat in the front of the seat and tight against the back of the gas tank. This helped a lot. It could be a lack of ruts, too, that was making it feel more secure.
Thursday morning the bike goes down to the metal scrapper to be weighed on their scale.
You had me worried for a second, Bo. :-o
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The weight distribution is 405# on the rear wheel and 350# on the front, static, with me on the bike and a full tank of gas. I am not sure what this means as a weight distribution for LSR. Any help is appreciated.
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both our fairinged bikes 750 and busa are 43% front 57% rear
not a planned bias, just the way it worked out and seems to be what we need on those bikes
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That is what I have, too. I was afraid it was not enough. It was a lot of work getting that weight distribution and I am real glad it is close to normal. The swingarm was lengthened 3 inches to put more weight on the front wheel. The trail was increased by decreasing the offset rather than increasing rake to keep weight on the front. The gas tank is full and I ride as far forward as I can.