Landracing Forum

Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Marty on March 31, 2013, 08:01:46 PM

Title: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on March 31, 2013, 08:01:46 PM
Trying my hand at a new bike build, tell me what you think Thanks.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Stan Back on March 31, 2013, 08:42:06 PM
Be good to have a motor.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on March 31, 2013, 08:58:48 PM
Thought I would try the flinstone way!!! LOL. there is still alot of brackets and supports to go. Got a motor, just in re build stage.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: tauruck on April 01, 2013, 12:16:29 AM
Yabadabbadoo!. It looks good so far and the rear hub is very cool. What's it off?. Good luck with the build. :cheers:
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: donpearsall on April 01, 2013, 12:26:56 AM
That's one looonnnnggg bike. Good luck with it. Spokes?? Those went out before the Flintstones!
Tell us some details. What class are you building it for?
See you there.

Don

Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on April 01, 2013, 07:14:57 PM
Rear hub is an rd 350 yamaha. drum brake figured weight wasnt the issue here but drag is. 94 inch wheel base, thought it would be nice and stable, still got to hang fuel cells and more gussets plus battery box and nitrous stuff. front hub and wheel will match but no brake. Class is still to be determined, keep you posted. thanks
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Interested Observer on April 01, 2013, 08:34:00 PM
The frame front end looks awfully flexible.  Hardly any torsional stiffness.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: 55chevr on April 01, 2013, 09:07:52 PM
The engine will add some rigidity as part of the stressed frame.

Joe 
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: DND on April 01, 2013, 10:11:12 PM
Hi Marty

Looking good so far, what type of engine are you going to run and how many holes 1 - 2 - 3 - 4

Don
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: tauruck on April 02, 2013, 03:16:59 AM
That's one looonnnnggg bike. Good luck with it. Spokes?? Those went out before the Flintstones!
Tell us some details. What class are you building it for?
See you there.

Don


Don, you don't like spokes?. Spokes rule, me, I love spokes.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Peter Jack on April 02, 2013, 06:17:24 AM
I've ridden down two rear blowouts from speed because a foreign object ended up in the tire and ripped the tube. I refuse to ride anything with spoked wheels and tube tires. There's nothing sets your heart to racing like when the rear end of the bike decides it's going to get past you at 70 to 75 mph and you're all crossed up like a speedway bike trying to stay upright and get stopped. I'm a real fan of tubeless tires and one piece wheels.  :-o :-o :-D

Pete
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: tauruck on April 02, 2013, 08:51:43 AM
Only two kinds of riders, those that have fallen off and those that are still going to. :-D
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Koncretekid on April 02, 2013, 10:10:23 AM
Good start with the frame, but a few questions and observations:
-what is the frame material?
-try to keep truss members intersecting at their ends; think of triangles connected to triangles.
-the single top tube is too long to be considered a "short column" so will flex and could bend.  I prefer double top tube or a larger diameter, like the Egli design.  We can encounter fatigue cracking, even in tubes in compression.
-add diagonal bracing (motor will help if connected at it's corners) and lots of crossmembers.
-add gussets at the headstock; you don't want any flexing at that point.
-larger front and rear axles and larger fork tubes like new sportbikes will increase torsional stiffness as well.
-spoke wheels are hard to true up and can encounter other problems as Peter has posted.
Good luck with the build.  I live in Lafayette, CO spring and fall. Feel free to ask questions.
Tom
     
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: bak189 on April 02, 2013, 03:13:21 PM
WHY....so long?????  Are you planning to attach a sidecar????
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on April 02, 2013, 03:48:45 PM
Thanks for all your input folks. I just wanted a low and long ride, no more to that. As for spoke wheels, I want every piece of this bike to be made and put together from my hands, I laced and trued the wheels myself, not many people can do that anymore, its a great look, front is matching, NO sidecar, not into 3 wheelers. as for tubing all D.O.M 1 1/4  .095 wall except center loop, which is 1 1/2. Trust me it will be plenty strong when all gussets welded. Not sure on motor yet but sneaking up on an idea of a twin cylinder something. (NITROUS OF COURSE)
The frame is in a very infant state, thanks
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: saltwheels262 on April 02, 2013, 09:30:36 PM
Only two kinds of riders, those that have fallen off and those that are still going to. :-D


is that supposed to be funny?
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Peter Jack on April 02, 2013, 09:41:58 PM
Only two kinds of riders, those that have fallen off and those that are still going to. :-D


is that supposed to be funny?

I think it's probably just a simple truth.  :-o :-D :evil:

Pete
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: tauruck on April 03, 2013, 02:48:02 AM
Only two kinds of riders, those that have fallen off and those that are still going to. :-D


is that supposed to be funny?
I'm sorry if I offended you. Pete made a point about not wanting to get out of shape at speed and I made light of the situation with my comment. I thought it was funny but if you think I'm out of line let me tell you that I have body parts missing and a few high tech pieces of metal holding others together. I'm a biker, maybe not a record holding one but I do crash.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on April 03, 2013, 11:19:10 AM
Absolutely no offense taken, As I see from you guys replying we are all in the middle age category. With that I can expect real genuine criticism and praise if warranted.I just ordered material for fuel cells and remaining gusset material. This bike is a dedication to a close friend of mine who passed 2 weeks ago. the speed i am trying to obtain is around 145ish?? I will post more pix as frame comes together.Thanks
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: firemanjim on April 03, 2013, 02:02:15 PM
Sometimes hard to find speed rated tires for spoked wheels as well.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: saltwheels262 on April 03, 2013, 07:39:05 PM
Only two kinds of riders, those that have fallen off and those that are still going to. :-D


is that supposed to be funny?
I'm sorry if I offended you. Pete made a point about not wanting to get out of shape at speed and I made light of the situation with my comment. I thought it was funny but if you think I'm out of line let me tell you that I have body parts missing and a few high tech pieces of metal holding others together. I'm a biker, maybe not a record holding one but I do crash.

we have heard about -not if that car will spin but when.
                            and not if you have fallen off of a motorcycle but when.

what burned my balls was the big smiley at the end of reply number 12. screw the wallet. a  getoff is gonna hurt or worse.
it is all water over the dam now.

a safe racing season to everyone.

franey


7 posts tonight. what a pw I am.


Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Stainless1 on April 04, 2013, 09:25:02 AM
SW262 et all... now that we all have had time to reflect the last post string, anybody know any long time riders that have not had an incident in their lifetime?  I cracked a hip over 40 years ago... limped for 8 months, it made me more careful.... I personally don't know a rider that has not skinned or worse.... we all hate to hear it and to those of us that have crashed know it is going to happen... I smiled when I read it because I knew it was true, it may not be funny, but it is going to happen.
 :cheers: see ya on the salt  8-)
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Old Scrambler on April 04, 2013, 08:34:59 PM
I crashed in '66.........so am well acquainted with stainless-steel parts :-D

Have not been down on pavement or salt...........but somewhat regularly tip-over in the dirt............last time was in 2011.

The good news about sharing everyone's concern about safety is that 'when you go down' I hope its just like I watched at the 2009 BUB.........rider down in the timing zone and slid for 1/2 mile............I talked with him about 2-hours later as he was zipping his leathers for another run 8-) 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on April 14, 2013, 07:45:55 PM
Here are some more photos of my project. starting to mock up look, still have lots of tabs, motor mounts and misc welding to do.Front wheel is just for mock up purposes, but will be a cool looking spoke like the rear,havent laced and trued wheels in 30 years but its like riding a bike (I thought) hope you like. Fuel cells equal 1.98 gal hope that is enough, not sure if I am running methanol or Q16 yet, maybe gas because nitrous solenoids are set up that way, (Oh for those folks who commented on spokes) I have some Avon tires rated for speed needed and except tube or tubeless.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: panic on April 15, 2013, 05:09:13 PM
The one I heard:
"there are 2 types of pilots - those who have made a landing with the gear up, and those who haven't done it yet"
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: saltwheels262 on April 15, 2013, 08:25:53 PM
I like the frame a lot.

you will have more than enough fuel if that's a tank underneath the back bone.

franey
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on April 16, 2013, 03:21:02 PM
    I am still puzzled by the concerns of my spoked wheels. Someone please elaborate? I am going for a Nostalgia style look, and for 10 years out of my 30 year career, I drag raced motorcycles in the early 80's with spoke wheels going much faster,and much harder launches than the record in my class.
   But thanks for some of the people who like the build, it is a lot more time consuming than first thought with my busy work load. I will share some more as it goes.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: donpearsall on April 16, 2013, 03:31:23 PM
Marty, I commented about the spoked wheels because most bike builders go to Bonneville with high horsepower to go fast. Spokes aren't ideal for that. They can't take a lot of horsepower but have a LOT of drag.  Function over form. But you are to be commended for the skill that spokes take to lace. It's your build and you do what you want. We all want you to succeed with your build and get out and race.

Please keep posting pics and comments.

Don
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on April 18, 2013, 09:23:53 PM
Thanks Don for the response. Yes it is just the right look I am after, I appreciate the responses, and the pictures will keep coming. The record in the class is less than 143mph so I thought it would be a cool look and doing something from the ground up with only my hands on is something a lot of people dont do theses days. I am doing something other than a cookie cutter busa's, (no offense to those folks) I drag race those scooters all the time, with my old school gixxer (picture attached) . Thanks for the comments
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 18, 2013, 11:14:15 PM
The spokes should be OK for a bike in the speed range you will be running at 150 mph and under.   
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Koncretekid on April 18, 2013, 11:33:10 PM
Marty,
I, too, have been running spoke wheels because I always loved the look of spoke wheels.  My front one is a high shouldered Cosmo 1.85 x 17" (like Borrani) and the rear is a used junkyard 2.5 x 17" DID.  I laced both of them myself, but find that at least with the old rims, I cannot get the rims to run any closer than about .050" out of round at the weld (where the factory welded the joint in the rims).  You would think the tire would even that out, but apparently not, as I have checked the wheels with the tires on and they still run .050" out of round.  Last year I cracked my frame in several places starting near the rear wheel (rigid frame with a single cylinder BSA which vibrates like hell).  So I have decided to try cast aluminum ones which I have found to have less than .010" of run-out.  I really can't explain why my frame broke, but I just don't want to take a chance again.  Maybe new Excel or Sun rims are better, but not the new Akront/Morad ones, as I have laced up a few of them as well.

Another reason I am changing is the difficulty I've had mounting ZR rated tires on my old narrow spoke rims.  I have pinched a fair share of tubes getting these new tires (Avon AM26's are just as hard) mounted on the rims.  What if the tubes I'm running now are only pinched half way through?  Cast aluminum rims, no tubes.  Those are my thoughts.  I will be posting info on my new rims shortly.

Tom
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on April 20, 2013, 11:36:58 AM
Thanks Tom for your post. Yes Avon AM 26 are the tires I am going to run with speed rating of 149 which is just what I need for class. I thought a spoked wheel look is very clean when done right so thats one reason. I easily could have bought mags, but chose not to. Yes the rims do have some slight run out from production and I am doing my best to get rid of that but there will be some.I am running a 2 cycle vibrating machine also, but built the frame with 1 1/4 by .095 and some .120 wall to compensate for any structual issues, should be fine and also  rubber mounting engine to motor mounts, its a challenge but one i am willing to take. I have taken another step used by Top Fuel drag racers in frame building and that is to pressurize the frame to keep an eye on structural cracks did you do that as well?? Been doing that for some time and really keeps mind at peace.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: DND on April 21, 2013, 04:12:32 PM
Hi Tom

In my engine building days i ran into harmonics a few times, that might be causing some of your frame cracking problems.

One time a customer took his boat to another state to race and did not wan't to show up his friends, so he ran it at a lower rpm. I was checking things out and saw the starter ring gear was shook loose from the flywheel and was eating the alum motor plate, also had a few broken inner valve springs lucky we did not break a valve

After that he ran it flat out like the engine was designed to run

At the Traco dyno one day they told me that SBC harmonic's at about 5550 rpm, so they would pull power and skip a 5500 rpm pull.

Maybe your BSA single is running in a harmonic range that is causing your frame to get some cracks, like the other post says a rubber mounted engine just might help the problem.

Hope you find the cause, Don
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Koncretekid on April 21, 2013, 06:39:23 PM
Hi Tom

Maybe your BSA single is running in a harmonic range that is causing your frame to get some cracks, like the other post says a rubber mounted engine just might help the problem.

Hope you find the cause, Don
Don,
Not my build diary, but I believe the BSA 500cc single cylinder running on a 250cc crankshaft vibrates because it's a single (can't balance without a balance shaft) and the flywheels are too light for the larger piston and connecting rod.  I don't know if anyone has tried to run a single cylinder motor with rubber mounts, but I think it would play heck with the chain!  Norton got away with it with their 360 degree twin (as bad as a single for balance) but they mounted the swing arm on the same subframe so there would be no relative movement between the motor and the rear wheel and sprocket.  Mine is a rigid frame.  The new frame is chrome moly and better braced at the back, and I will be running aluminum wheels this year, so I expect it should be better, but who knows?  I'll at least know what to look for after each run.
Tom
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on April 23, 2013, 09:59:28 PM
update on new photos, decided to use this tail section, this one off my drag bike, but like the looks. motor mounts about to be tacked in, pipe is a monster ,but nothing I can do with this pontoon!!! maybe use it as a side stand?
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 24, 2013, 12:49:11 AM
The spokes cross each other at last twice.  It is good to wrap zip ties around them where they cross.  They usually break at the bend on the hub end.  The zip ties keep the spoke from flailing around if it breaks and it prevents it from puncturing the tube. 
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Koncretekid on April 24, 2013, 09:32:56 AM
Your tail section looks like it was made to fit, but the exit from the exhaust looks like it would cook the "mountain oysters" if left as it is!  What is the motor?
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on April 24, 2013, 07:35:28 PM
Konkrete, The motor was to be a rz350 stroker383cc,AAF-500cc but bought a bad motor that was suppose to be good, (typical ebay) so I have changed my class to a AAF-350, I have a honda trx250r motor bumped to 310cc and I am going to spray it with some giggle gas, not to sure about a record(its pretty stout) but going to have fun anyway, then next year come out with my stroker RZ motor. the 500 cc AAF record is only 3 mph more than 350cc. Got motor mounts welded today, Pipe will actually exit out tail section and my riding position is completely laid out so other than LOUD it it will be good. Thanks for replying.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on May 01, 2013, 10:10:51 PM
Got a couple more photos for folks. Have all motor mounts made and nitrous bottle bracket support,put it on the wheels again to weigh it.I am wondering if the stage its in at 136lbs is a bit light but I am making provisions to hang 45 lbs right in front of rear wheel and on lower frame rail of chassis. Have rear tailsection on order going with a 86 gixxer 8 inch over. It seems to be the right look and shape for any trimming needed, will post photo when it arrives. All the little brackets and tabs take so much time now, got 3 months to make my schedule shake down runs. Thanks for looking.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: John Noonan on May 01, 2013, 11:10:05 PM
I crashed in '66.........so am well acquainted with stainless-steel parts :-D

Have not been down on pavement or salt...........but somewhat regularly tip-over in the dirt............last time was in 2011.

The good news about sharing everyone's concern about safety is that 'when you go down' I hope its just like I watched at the 2009 BUB.........rider down in the timing zone and slid for 1/2 mile............I talked with him about 2-hours later as he was zipping his leathers for another run 8-) 8-) 8-)

Who slid for 2640 feet at Bubs and was getting ready for another run soon thereafter ?  He must of been going 300 mph and I would have figured I wouldnhave heard about that?
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Koncretekid on May 03, 2013, 09:48:02 AM
"I have a honda trx250r motor bumped to 310cc and I am going to spray it with some giggle gas"
Marty,
Before you go to far with that motor, make sure it's acceptable.  Has to be a motorcycle motor.  Is it the same as a Honda motorcross bike motor?
Tom
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on May 03, 2013, 06:46:59 PM
Hey thanks for the reply. Good thinking KonKrete, but yes it is same as honda CR250 back in the day. Thanks for the input. I hadnt thought about it until you said something. Good call.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on September 15, 2013, 04:18:42 PM
Hello folks, just thought I would repost the new post for 2014 build. Had huge financial burden that did not allow me to finish this year, so I am going balls to the wall with build now. have lots to share but just tinkering with a new sketch tell me what you think, will keep a full on post of new stuff. Thanks
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Koncretekid on September 15, 2013, 06:30:51 PM
"Innovative designs are encouraged"  I think it looks like what it's supposed to be - - fun!
Tom
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on September 16, 2013, 10:26:16 PM
Thanks Tom, Yes I agree it needs to be fun! I am redesigning the backbone to a dual backbone so I can hang fuel cell in between rails and also allows it to be a bit lower in the front,trying to get out of wind in a horizontal position. Look forward to parts coming in so I can complete the roller.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Stan Back on September 19, 2013, 11:35:17 AM
Balls to the wall?

Looks like balls to the frame.
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: lsrjunkie on September 19, 2013, 09:11:14 PM
Now that's funny!  :-D

Cool looking project Marty! I really wanna see this thing in person!
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on September 20, 2013, 09:37:02 PM
That's pretty funny however it is a bit true. Redesigned the top backbone yesterday. Going with a dual backbone with 1 inch .120 wall and hanging a 2 gallon fuel Cell in between. Building fuel cell out of 22 gauge steel . Now just waiting for some parts to show up. Need to get tires mounted so i can get proper ride height and see where exhaust will hang. So hang on more pix next week . Thanks
Title: Re: New BUB's build 2013
Post by: Marty on September 29, 2013, 08:01:59 PM
A few more things done this weekend. Dual backbone is in and gusseted well. Got my new radiator it looks like it was meant for the build.New tires arrived as well as my front spokes. Now Its time to get front hub to powdercoater. My buddy Kit is going to mount the rear tire this feel .It will be nice to get exact height of rear end now.