Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: 38flattie on January 07, 2013, 10:34:57 AM
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Does anyone know of a non-intrusive block fill that could be used? That is to say, a block fill that would not 'shift' the cylinders, and cause a rebore?
I'm thinking if I could find one, I could benifit from a partially filled block.
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I've never used this stuff, but I've read that a non-shrinking machinery grout called Embeco 885 works well as a block filler. I assume that the "non-shrinking" part is what makes it better than regular block fillers like HardBlok. Here are a couple of links:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1318888691/EMBECO+885
http://rlrowan.com/embeco-885
Again, I have no experience with it, but it might be something to look into...
Gary
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Thanks Gary!
I'm going to see if I can find a suitable material, and half-fill the block.
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I know of an excellent product I've use many times. It is called Rok Block and we saw it demo'ed at a trade show. In glass vails some products expanded and broke the vail others shrunk. This product expands at the same rate as cast iron and won't cause any effects other then added cylinder support. With a thick cylinder wall you probable don't even have to rehone it. Just follow the instructions. Best place to buy it , Competition Products.
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What racergeorge said, used it in many chrys. blocks
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http://www.competitionproducts.com/Rokblock-Professional-Engine-Block-Filler-25-lbs/productinfo/ROK/ (http://www.competitionproducts.com/Rokblock-Professional-Engine-Block-Filler-25-lbs/productinfo/ROK/)
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Thanks everyone-I'll check them out!
This is azz backwards, but....
My biggest concerns at this point our the cylinder walls, and sealing the dang heads. We can modify the chambers to use Cometic gaskets, but there is still no guarantee.
I'd like to dry deck this thing, but we won't have time.
...unless I do things azz backwards! Instead of half filling the block, what if I filled the top 2", effectively dry decking it? I think it would help me on the added cylinder pressure, and with my head gasket sealing problems.I'm sure we would have adequate cooling on fuel, but I'm not sure on gas.
The H2O injection, however, might help us out in that department.
Now, blast away!
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Buddy,
Have used Texcrete and epoxy compounds in many blocks with good results. If you fill the top 2 inches of the block to stiffen the deck, etc, how will the exhaust valve seat be cooled? It's not like an 8 second drag run.......
Just a thought....
:cheers:
F/B
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Buddy,
Have used Texcrete and epoxy compounds in many blocks with good results. If you fill the top 2 inches of the block to stiffen the deck, etc, how will the exhaust valve seat be cooled? It's not like an 8 second drag run.......
Just a thought....
:cheers:
F/B
...and therein lies the rub! For every issue I solve, at least one more pops up. I'm looking to optimize my options, and go with the lesser of two evils.
That is something I'm still trying to figure out. Any ideas???
Still, If we do everything like everyone else, we'll produce the same results. I tend to use the proverbial 'box' as a stepping stool!
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Paint.
Floor.
Corner.
Angle fill?
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I alway thought of block filling as an attempt to staballize the cylinder wall for ring seal . You'll nead to build a torque plate for your engine and have it on the block while you hone a few tenths out of the cyinders for true and you grind the seats if its a flat head. I have my SBC bow tie filled to within a couple of inches of the top of the block but I run N.A. on gas. A cooling system with enough flow and pressure is critical.
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If you fill the top 2 inches of the block to stiffen the deck, etc, how will the exhaust valve seat be cooled?
I wouldn't take all the heat away from the valves, but some additional cooling could be brought to bear by machining and building water jackets on top of the heads. The head is aluminum, so it would tend to draw heat out of the block, and you could skew the passages in such a way that they favored the valve side of the head. Then drill vents through the epoxy by the exhaust valve, direct it into the passage you've created on the head, and draw it back into the tank.
A variation on one of Fordboy's BMC cooling ideas.
Maybe?
Just a thought . . .
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I alway thought of block filling as an attempt to staballize the cylinder wall for ring seal . You'll nead to build a torque plate for your engine and have it on the block while you hone a few tenths out of the cyinders for true and you grind the seats if its a flat head. I have my SBC bow tie filled to within a couple of inches of the top of the block but I run N.A. on gas. A cooling system with enough flow and pressure is critical.
We have a torque plate, so that is no problem.
Honing a few tenths out of the cylinders would be though! :wink:
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Hi Budy
The Ford flathead I ran last year was partially filled with hardblock filler to eliminate the water leakage into the cylinders where the typical valve seat cracks materialize in the Ford block. Since I ran the block previously {pre cracks} all the machine work was already completed. I found no issues with cylinder bore diameter reduction from the filler or any valve seat distortion issues and after running the block with the filler the water did not leak into the oil a step in the right direction.
The hardblock brand filler includes iron and some type of epoxy it flows relatively well levels nicely and the epoxy some how covers the exposed surface of the filler leaving a smooth surface. In the areas where I wanted the water in the block to flow to the head I used duck seal type of putty to fill the area before putting the filler in. After the filler was hard I just removed the putty thus allowing coolant to flow where needed. Just wanted to put my two cents into this discussion.
Ron
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I believel that you spoke with Rick Schnell. I believe he fills his block with aluminum.
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Thats machinist talk for tenths of a thousands of an inch. And thats because that is what my old Sunnen dial bore guage reads in. In other words just enough to true her a skosh :-D
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Buddy, I don't know if it's possible or not, but what if you turned the block upside down and poured it with about 1 inch of aluminum? You would have a dry deck, and you could put in inserts for the head studs that would have a lot more to grab onto. You could even add xtra studs. You would also not lose the heat transfer from the valve seats. Just thinkin'.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Thats machinist talk for tenths of a thousands of an inch. And thats because that is what my old Sunnen dial bore guage reads in. In other words just enough to true her a skosh :-D
Yup. "It's off three tenths." = you missed it by 0.0003"
"Take half a thou off" = remove 0.0005" of material.
You missed it by ten thou. NOT "one hundredth". = 0.010"
"You missed it by a c^nt hair" = I can make it fit with a hammer. I used to have a CH taped on a 3x5 card in the top of my toolbox. "NBS Certified CH - 0.0032"
NFG or FUBAR = Do not use. Good for scrap.
Strange thing about machinists. If you are good, you never miss anything by .001". You miss it by .025 (jig bore), .100, or .200". Why? This is how much you screw up if you count the handle turns wrong.
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Strange thing about machinists. If you are good, you never miss anything by .001". You miss it by .025 (jig bore), .100, or .200". Why? This is how much you screw up if you count the handle turns wrong.
A lot of years ago a machinist missed with a vernier caliper by 1 solid inch on an 8 foot measurement. The part being machined was an oil well casting. We called them liberty bells because that's what they looked like. So the top 18" diameter of material was now an inch short. What do you do, scrap it? Naw. You just take it to the weld shop and weld an inch back on. The welders were pissed at the machinist for a loooong time.
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Added:
When they say 100 thou, it's not 0.00001" it's 0.100", never say a "tenth" for 0.100".
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Thats machinist talk for tenths of a thousands of an inch. And thats because that is what my old Sunnen dial bore guage reads in. In other words just enough to true her a skosh :-D
Yup. "It's off three tenths." = you missed it by 0.0003"
"Take half a thou off" = remove 0.0005" of material.
You missed it by ten thou. NOT "one hundredth". = 0.010"
"You missed it by a c^nt hair" = I can make it fit with a hammer. I used to have a CH taped on a 3x5 card in the top of my toolbox. "NBS Certified CH - 0.0032"
NFG or FUBAR = Do not use. Good for scrap.
Strange thing about machinists. If you are good, you never miss anything by .001". You miss it by .025 (jig bore), .100, or .200". Why? This is how much you screw up if you count the handle turns wrong.
"NFG" reminds me of a story I heard from a friend who ran an Askania camera tracking station at White Sands Missile Range years ago. He kept getting electronic equipment back from calibration and repair with tags reading "NFG" and he was furious when they sent it back again with another "NFG" tag. Finally he found out that the calibration & repair lab had a technician with the initials "N.F.G."; after that, "NFG" stopped being signed on those equipment tags. :-P
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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^^^^^^^^^^^^dad went to school with a pal named Marlyn Erickson. Art teacher wanted all work signed with the students initials. Took a few tries before the teach quit asking who the smartass was signing ME on his art! :roll: :-D